this video demonstrates the idea I thought would be good for the conductive ink's use in making circuits, since once you plate the ink you can solder to it :) thanks a ton for showing this XD
... and that's why i backed your indiegogo campaign for the ink! ;) Metal plating 3D-printed plastic/nylon/resin designs should make the print more durable, more tough and definitely get a new look especially for Art models, figurines etc..
Robert I am working with my grandson on a pinewood Derby race car, the key to a fast car is low friction between the metal Axel ( a small nail ) and plastic wheel hub. He and I thought electroplating grapheme on the Axel and hub then Polishing the hub and Axel we have made our grapheme and tried to electroplate a smooth Axel. Yet had little success. We are hoping you might share some insight on what we might do better.
Just a note to everyone that I have successfully bound a waterproof conductive ink onto plastic (ABS & Styrene) using a fine lacquer gloss varnish intended for airbrush use as the binder for graphite powder (The brand is MRP - Mr Paint from Slovakia) without using a primer.
This is the future of RF shielding for sensitive electronics, surely? The inside of plastic instrument cases can be either coated in conductive ink for most of the case, and/or electroplated with silver or copper for a more complete low resistance shield. Either way will result in substantial weight savings or increased shielding for the same weight. Where's my lab coat.....?
I love your work though I do have one question about this process. I plan to coat my 3d prints in conductive paint so I can electro plate them. Try to give it a nicer feel and a slightly stronger surface. And to do this I was going to us an airbrush, do you have any tips on how I can get the paint fluid enough to use in the airbrush?
Hmm I wasn't able to find it. I think my youtube is being silly. I will try again tomorrow. You are a life saver, been wanting to gold plate some stuff for a while.
Just in passing, when I used to print polyethelene material the secret was to lower the surface tension of the plastic in order to get the ink to penetrate into the plastic. This was achived by passing a light gas flame (not fierce) over the surface for about 1 second or less. To obseve the effect take the material to printed and plunge it in a container of water....the water will bead, after flaming the water will hold an even sheet over the surface for several seconds. Naturally flame the plastic when it is touch dry. Just thought it may be of use with polythene or polypropylene type material. Not sure about polycrysaline materials.
Robert Murray-Smith Sorry flaming raises the surface tension of the plastic not lower...my mistake. The effect was quite dramatic if this process was missed the ink had virtually no adhesion but if the surface was flamed the ink could withstand serious mechanical abrasion. Increased time increased the surface tension further how ever it also could cause anti stat materials to migrate within the plastic which caused patchy adhesion..... Beware oils from your hands as well as this interferes with adhesion. It os not that sensitive a process and could be easily done with a low flame from a gas blow lamp/ cheers
Hi Robert, I notice you've set up in/on an auto- stirring hotplate. I know electroplating is not your ultimate area of expertise, but have you tried turning the stirrer on whilst plating (just to provide some agitation)? If so what have you observed?
Hello Robert, Very good, but the echo in your place makes it very hard to understand you. could you ware a lapel mic. to make the sound better . Thanks for the video's
hi Robert I am going to make up this same solution to test your inks but I can only find 36% pure hydrochloric acid. do I need to put 6ml of it in instead of the 2ml you put in? thanks
i think just 2mL the hydrochloric acid I have is only 37% - but I am not an electroplater - there are better people to ask for advice on electroplating than me
Robert Murray-Smith do your friends have a website with the course information? I certainly could do with a little help with brass plating. thanks for your time
Hi Robert, Is the recipe for making the waterproof conductive ink suitable for electroplating non conductors still available? I am an Electroplater based in Melbourne, Australia and would love to have a go at making my own conductive paint. Kind Regards, Rob.
+Rob Houghton hiya mate - just follow the ink making video but replace the gum arabic with a waterproof binder - you may need to play with concentrations
Thanks Rob, Do you have any recommendations for the water proof binder. I have been thinking of trying something like Nitrocellulose Lacquer. Cheers Rob Houghton.
I've heard ABS can be chemically etched and rendered conductive in an electroless bath, allowing it to be plated without conductive ink. Does anyone know if this has been tried outside of an industrial setting?
to render a plastic surface conductive for electroplating you need to roughen the surface - either with a mechanical etch - sand it - or chemical etch - pickle it in acid - then deposit a layer of tin salts and then activate it with palladium chloride. When you have done that you can electroplate it in an electroless bath. The palladium salts are very very very expensive which is why it isn't done much outside of an industrial setting - but if you feel like giving it a go - there is a lot of info on how to do it on the net and it would be nice if you did a video for everyone
Yeah I just looked into it a bit more, you weren't kidding about the expensiveness. Do you know if anyone has tried plating an object printed in conductive 3d filament? That would also be interesting.
Cameron O'Neill yes it would but i don't know anybody who has tried it - it might be a good thing to have a little experiment with mate - If you do - post the vid - i'd be interested to see
***** to be honest mate - I am not sure if you could use that method or not. Normally it is a chemical etch - the part is 'pickled' in an acid bath to pit the surface - with plastic a chrome sulphur is used but i have heard of hydrochloric acid zinc being used as well - these are pretty nasty and sanding - or sand blasting works well - but I am not really an expert here - just going by what i know generally
I was wondering! Could not make it out on the audio, and the automatic translation subtitles didn't help AT ALL! They are never helpful, but often very funny... It wouldn't have helped because we don't know this product in the US, but we do have lots of saccharin!
this video demonstrates the idea I thought would be good for the conductive ink's use in making circuits, since once you plate the ink you can solder to it :) thanks a ton for showing this XD
cheers mate
Fantastic, I love it!
glad you like it mate
... and that's why i backed your indiegogo campaign for the ink! ;)
Metal plating 3D-printed plastic/nylon/resin designs should make the print more durable, more tough and definitely get a new look especially for Art models, figurines etc..
very cool - i must admit - i am pretty interested in the electroforming idea
Ditto Mr. Dizingof
Robert I am working with my grandson on a pinewood Derby race car, the key to a fast car is low friction between the metal Axel ( a small nail ) and plastic wheel hub. He and I thought electroplating grapheme on the Axel and hub then Polishing the hub and Axel we have made our grapheme and tried to electroplate a smooth Axel. Yet had little success. We are hoping you might share some insight on what we might do better.
Just a note to everyone that I have successfully bound a waterproof conductive ink onto plastic (ABS & Styrene) using a fine lacquer gloss varnish intended for airbrush use as the binder for graphite powder (The brand is MRP - Mr Paint from Slovakia) without using a primer.
This is the future of RF shielding for sensitive electronics, surely? The inside of plastic instrument cases can be either coated in conductive ink for most of the case, and/or electroplated with silver or copper for a more complete low resistance shield. Either way will result in substantial weight savings or increased shielding for the same weight. Where's my lab coat.....?
Can i do this with a gold solution instead of copper? If so can u recommend where to get a solution
I love your work though I do have one question about this process. I plan to coat my 3d prints in conductive paint so I can electro plate them. Try to give it a nicer feel and a slightly stronger surface. And to do this I was going to us an airbrush, do you have any tips on how I can get the paint fluid enough to use in the airbrush?
i did a vid on airbrushing with the ink mate
Hmm I wasn't able to find it. I think my youtube is being silly. I will try again tomorrow. You are a life saver, been wanting to gold plate some stuff for a while.
Andreas Barry cool cheers
Just in passing, when I used to print polyethelene material the secret was to lower the surface tension of the plastic in order to get the ink to penetrate into the plastic. This was achived by passing a light gas flame (not fierce) over the surface for about 1 second or less.
To obseve the effect take the material to printed and plunge it in a container of water....the water will bead, after flaming the water will hold an even sheet over the surface for several seconds. Naturally flame the plastic when it is touch dry.
Just thought it may be of use with polythene or polypropylene type material. Not sure about polycrysaline materials.
that is interesting - thanks for the tip mate - very useful - i'll give it a go as it sounds like a bit of a skill to me lol
Robert Murray-Smith
Sorry flaming raises the surface tension of the plastic not lower...my mistake.
The effect was quite dramatic if this process was missed the ink had virtually no adhesion but if the surface was flamed the ink could withstand serious mechanical abrasion. Increased time increased the surface tension further how ever it also could cause anti stat materials to migrate within the plastic which caused patchy adhesion..... Beware oils from your hands as well as this interferes with adhesion. It os not that sensitive a process and could be easily done with a low flame from a gas blow lamp/
cheers
Bernard Stokes
ok mate thanks for that - can you do a demo?
Robert Murray-Smith
I will try and set something up. I dont have any tools here at present but will ask friends for a blow torch.
Bernard Stokes
that would be brilliant mate - I am a visual learner - if i see it once I can usually get it
Brill come on postman
Have tried it with distilled vinegar?
Hello Robert
Have you tried to use the ink to make micro conductive fibers by electrospinning? THANK'S
German P i haven't mate - but worth a try
Hi Robert,
I notice you've set up in/on an auto- stirring hotplate. I know electroplating is not your ultimate area of expertise, but have you tried turning the stirrer on whilst plating (just to provide some agitation)? If so what have you observed?
no mate - i haven't but it's a good idea nad i understand why you would want to
Hello Robert,
Very good, but the echo in your place makes it very hard to understand you.
could you ware a lapel mic. to make the sound better . Thanks for the video's
hi Robert
I am going to make up this same solution to test your inks but I can only find 36% pure hydrochloric acid. do I need to put 6ml of it in instead of the 2ml you put in?
thanks
i think just 2mL the hydrochloric acid I have is only 37% - but I am not an electroplater - there are better people to ask for advice on electroplating than me
Robert Murray-Smith do your friends have a website with the course information? I certainly could do with a little help with brass plating. thanks for your time
Hi Robert,
Is the recipe for making the waterproof conductive ink suitable for electroplating non conductors still available? I am an Electroplater based in Melbourne, Australia
and would love to have a go at making my own conductive paint.
Kind Regards,
Rob.
+Rob Houghton hiya mate - just follow the ink making video but replace the gum arabic with a waterproof binder - you may need to play with concentrations
Thanks Rob,
Do you have any recommendations for the water proof binder. I have been thinking of trying something like Nitrocellulose Lacquer.
Cheers Rob Houghton.
+Rob Houghton not really mate - just try a few and see what works for you
No worries, thanks for your help.
Cheers Rob.
Hello Robert, do you still have the ink for sale on the website? thanks
mea1230 no sorry we don't - you can make one for yourself however by following the how to make a conductive ink video
I've heard ABS can be chemically etched and rendered conductive in an electroless bath, allowing it to be plated without conductive ink. Does anyone know if this has been tried outside of an industrial setting?
to render a plastic surface conductive for electroplating you need to roughen the surface - either with a mechanical etch - sand it - or chemical etch - pickle it in acid - then deposit a layer of tin salts and then activate it with palladium chloride. When you have done that you can electroplate it in an electroless bath. The palladium salts are very very very expensive which is why it isn't done much outside of an industrial setting - but if you feel like giving it a go - there is a lot of info on how to do it on the net and it would be nice if you did a video for everyone
Yeah I just looked into it a bit more, you weren't kidding about the expensiveness. Do you know if anyone has tried plating an object printed in conductive 3d filament? That would also be interesting.
Cameron O'Neill
yes it would but i don't know anybody who has tried it - it might be a good thing to have a little experiment with mate - If you do - post the vid - i'd be interested to see
*****
to be honest mate - I am not sure if you could use that method or not. Normally it is a chemical etch - the part is 'pickled' in an acid bath to pit the surface - with plastic a chrome sulphur is used but i have heard of hydrochloric acid zinc being used as well - these are pretty nasty and sanding - or sand blasting works well - but I am not really an expert here - just going by what i know generally
lol - stuff just pops up especially when you are doing it
hate to have to pester you, but I could not make out what the tablets were, can you post the name here? :)
hermasetas mate - they are a saccharin tablet
ah wow ok, I wonder if aspertame might have a better use in this way than as a sweetener too lol. thanks so much :)
no worries mate
I was wondering! Could not make it out on the audio, and the automatic translation subtitles didn't help AT ALL! They are never helpful, but often very funny... It wouldn't have helped because we don't know this product in the US, but we do have lots of saccharin!
Maybe you need help in building website? (free of charge)
that's a kind offer - but not at the moment thanks