The Galaxy class was not designed to use it's main deflector as a weapon. If it were then it wouldn't overload half the ship's systems when it used it for that.
I'll go against the stream and say, the D'deridex can beat the dominion battleship and here is my reasoning: The battleship has several design flaws that are no problem in a fleetbattle, but break them in a 1v1, but that is what the question deals with. It turns and moves like a brick and the firepower to the aft-sector is not very good. The D'deridex can decloak at full impuls, on 4 o'clock, fire what it has while passing and recloaking. then move into a good position while reloading the energy-reserves and repeat the attackrun untill the battleship breaks. The battleship can't finish it through the shields in one run and the romulans can stay safely at range and focus on recharging. The dominion can't ever focus on regenerating because the moment the save their reserves the romulans can sweep in. In a fleetbattle the swarms of escort dominion-fighters would negate this problem and secure the flanks, but not in 1v1. It is the same result as a cruiser against a submarine without escort, the submarine hold the initiative and the cruiser will at some point eat a torpedo, or the submarine will run out of ammo and just leave.
In classic typing of warships the difference between battleship and battlecruiser is amor and speed not firepower. The Battlecruiser has less armor and is faster than the battleship
Honestly I don't even know why this is such an issue when talking about scifi space ships and yet a lot of youtubers are so fixated on it. The difference between battleships and battlecruisers ended during world war 2. They started making battleships faster with so called "fast battleships" and putting heavier armor and bigger guns on the battlecruiser designs to compensate making them battleships. There was ever only a real difference between the two pre world war 2.
@@tyson31415 In the future they won't, they don't even do it in the modern world. In star trek and in most scifi they absolutely do. The term "battleship" is literally a word made just for the big world war 2 gun ships.
Starfleet Academy (and thus almost every Starfleet officer in the Federation) has a strange fixation and anachronistic indoctrination of late-20th- and early-21st-century pastiche anglo-American culture. But they still sometimes get little things like language phrases and naval designations quite wrong.
Uuuuuhh... I think theyre using those old terms from ww2 in Starfleet. Galaxy class: battleship. Sovereign class: battlecruiser. Though Ive seen the Nebula termed a battlecruiser, too. Which, is odd. Why would Starfleet do this? Someone left a comment explaining in universe reason that sort of makes sense. An out of universe reason for trek using these old navy terms? Gene Roddenberry served on the USS Enterprise during WW2. Just saying, maybe that's why. In trek anyway. Other sci fi IPs have differing reasons and applications to the categorization of a starship.
I feel like the D'deridex was intended to engage Excelsior and Ambassador class ships (and to a lesser degree the Miranda, which was an extremely common design). Given it's age it would have likely been put into production as a response to the Ambassador, which had entered Starfleet service some 20 years prior to the D'deridex.
Answer: As powerful as the plot needs it to be implied to be. There is no consistency in Star Trek, even in simple things like ship size and deck quantity.
To me, the Romulan Warbird was always less of a Eagle/Hawk and more of a Peacock, spreading it's feathers out as far as it can making it look bigger than it actually is.
It's not only the power of the vessel that matters, is actually who commands it that vessel that matters, for example if the dominion battleship was commanded by someone who was completely in experienced then they would lose to another commander who had years of experience who was commanding a less powerful vessel.This is perfectly demonstrated in the deep space nine episode 'Once more unto the breach' where Kor crippled 10 Cardassian war ships using just one bird of prey. When General Martok asked how he do that, Worf simply said 'Does it matter, he is the Darhar Master'. In other words, experience will always determine success in battle.
If you aren't properly equipped for a task you will fail it. The D'deridex only chance would be to get a jump on the dreadnought, damage her warp nacelles and then use hit and run, still at a tremendous disadvantage
I’m really pretty good about volume and doing some thing and coming up with the volume. The nose section of the Romulan ship would be about equal to the volume of the federation saucer. The engineer in session would be the secondary hall of the Federation and I’m giving the Federation a little bit of leeway there. Can you have the entire top section where they have to man the weapon systems and then the bottom section which has flight decks and a few more weapons. I believe the entire tonnage volume of the Romulan ship would beat the Federation ship, about 1.8 .
I've always felt that the Romulan Warbird and the Galaxy Class were relatively equal as far as battle capability was concerned. Due to the wide firing arcs, the possible stronger shields, and the lack of blind spots on the Galaxy class it would probably outlast a Warbird in a firefight. Plus given its smaller size it would arguably be more agile as well. The Warbird, on the other hand, was more than likely superior from a forward firing angle. If it got the drop on a Galaxy class and fired first I don't see the Galaxy recovering fast enough to win but if the Galaxy had a chance to fully power up and survive the initial volley I see it or firing first I see it more than likely winning the fight. The Galaxy was a more rounded fighter which is why its survivability was so high in many of its battles. The Warbird was designed to decloak and hit hard as hell before moving onto its next target. This is why we see them usually hitting shipyards or larger ships that are either stationary or slow moving. We even get a quick shot of one engaging a Dominion Battleship (which I would've loved to see concluded). Sorry this is waay longer than I intended but I really get into ship comparisons. Anyway long story short Warbird vs Galaxy really just comes down to who gets the first shot and how hard that shot is.
It should be also pointed out that there were two versions of Galaxy and I'm not talking about immensely powerful Galaxy X. Enterprise was refitted as Explorer and as such have moderate shield and armament. So Picard may be correct that D'deridex was technically stronger, but Galaxy compensated it with better soft factors like. But there was also other variant utilized during Dominum War. Those ships were refitted as Battleships, with capacitors replacing labs and other stuff. I feel those could reliably kill D'deridex.
I'm in agreement with you. With early warning a Galaxy class will deliver a curb stomp all over Big Bird if it has the right commander. The Galaxy class showed in the Dominion war it was the better ship. Plus they had hot tubs for after a hard days pest control.
It seems like the Galaxy was bizarrely, even ludicrously underpowered for her weight class at the time of commissioning, but was saved from being a failed design by the extreme modularity and capacity for refit. The Dominion goes from being able to effortlessly style on USS Odessey, even ignoring her shields, to her surviving sister ships forming the iron backbone of the Federation fleet by end of war.
I think there is a huge gap in technology between the federation and Romulans. A pre dominion war D'deridex may have been slightly more powerful than a galaxy class but I don't think it was by much. A dominion war refit galaxy class would mop the floor with a D'deridex. We have to remember that a D'deridex is a warship built for that purpose and a galaxy class was not. Look what star fleet did with an old ship like the Lokota, I can only imagine what they did with the galaxy class ships.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I feel starfleet is good at both, it just took open war to get starfleet committed to building warships. The Romulans and klingons on the other hand almost exclusively build warships. The advantage the federation has is that it has a huge population with a massive industrial backbone and cutting edge technology. Federation ships that were designed with combat in mind but never mass produced until the dominion war started such as the defiant, sovereign and akira class ships really highlighted that. Then we have the overpowered prometheus that was designed during the dominion war.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 You say that, yet the D'deridex were basically the only Romulan warships EVER to appear on the TV shows. The only other variant (and my favourite) to ever appear was the Valpado Warbird in the movie Nemesis. Edit: SORRY! I meant to say *Valdore Warbird!* I must be drunk...
It's more on timing. Since the Excelsior, the federation has been the one to come up with new concepts, then the others work on counters. The D'deridex was older than the Galaxy, but stronger until the later's refit
I have always viewed the D'deridex as an assault ship. It has lots of disruptors, lots of torpedos, and can hold 4000 troops. If your ship isn't moving fast, it is going to have a bad day. With its disruptor layout, it becomes even more lethal when in close proximity to another D'deridex. I would think 3 galaxy class to take down 2 of these Warbirds. I think 3 fast ships like the Defiant could do just as well if not better than 3 Galaxy class.
Venom points out something interesting to your point. If Sisko said, keep me inside the D'deridex's hull, which I think the Defiant could do, that could be an effective way for one Defiant to take out multiple D'deridex ships. All it would have to do is survive while it made it's way to the center of each ship. God would I love to see that. The first comedy starship battle! Ten D'deridex-s fleeing a single Defiant class and Sisko screaming, 'hold still damn you!'
The Evil Galactic Empire basically controls (most of) a whole galaxy. The Romulan Star Empire basically controls a puny little chunk of a single galactic quadrant - a volume of space bordered on every side by enemies. The Romulan warbird might win the 1v1 ship battle. If they ambushed from cloak. The Romulan empire would not win the 1v1 galactic war ignited by the warbird's unprovoked attack.
The Romulan technological advantage would make then seem magical to the Imeprials. It would be like the Santisima Trinidad or HMS Victory being ambushed by the USS Zumwalt; the ISD may not even know what was destroying it.
Everything I heard and read about the Warbird says that the Galaxy class is on par with it as far as offensive abilities. Where the Warbird shines is the cloaking device. If the Warbird were just to decloak and open up with everything, the Galaxy class would be screwed. However cloaking device aside, it would normally be an even match.
so the galaxy is pretty well rounded tactically, whereas the Warbird is intended to engage and destroy smaller frigates/cruisers stuff ranging from 250-500m in length, so the galaxy class is a little more than it can chew.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I disagree. In the episode Tin Man a Romulan Warbird opens up on the Enterprise. In one volley of fire, the Enterprises shields got taken down to 30%. Worf literally says "70% loss to the shields." From everything I heard, the Galaxy class can match that firepower. So an open battle between a Warbird and a Galaxy class would last only seconds. Here's a vid. ua-cam.com/video/SniM702kN7Q/v-deo.html
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Furthermore, I believe the Warbird was designed to fight MULTIPLE cruisers and frigates. It is a total match for a Galaxy class. I say they are even. The way the Galaxy class mows through Cardassian Galors, I would say that the Galaxy class was designed in the same fashion. To hold off multiple smaller ships.
yeah so in the defector ua-cam.com/video/jVmldpYnFzw/v-deo.html dialogue indicates the warbird can easily outgun the galaxy. although perhaps not to the extent believed, the warbird has an intimidating presence yes but its only slightly larger in hull volume than a galaxy. they had an advantage. i agree that the warbird is optimized to take on smaller ships when you look at the bulk of starfleet you see classes like the excelsior and new Orleans, crucially however we see that they don't do so well against very small ships like the defiant and jem'hadar fighters. whereas we do see the galaxy keeping them at bay.unfortunately we never really see them go up against ships of a similar size.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 The Warbird actually did defend Romulan space from hoards of Dominion attackers. They were actually proud of it during a DS9 episode. I forget exactly which episode. It's the one where the Romulan states "Romulans don't believe in luck." We see it getting overwhelmed by massive numbers of Jem'hadar fighters only during the later parts of the war during major battles.
The Galaxy Class pre-dominion war makes sense as being weaker than the D'deridex. It should be noted that the Galaxy was specced into speed and various science/multi purpose roles while the D'deridex was a specialized battleship.
I know that it is cannon that the smaller Dominion ships were able to really put a beating on the D'deridex ships but to me it's like how Worf seemed to always get beat up to show how strong the adversary was. Also the Galaxy class ship got smoked by the Dominion ships because of their weapons going through their shields. I think if the Romulans had been more invested in fighting the Dominion from the first sign of trouble, and had adapted their shields and weapons, the fights would have probably gone a much different way. As for it's combat role. I see the D'deridex as having a few big roles. 1. Planetary attack, 2. Space stations, 3. using the element of surprise, and firepower to ambush and destroy enemy ships of all sizes. What it was not designed for was flying in formation, uncloaked, and fighting large numbers of ships head on.
@Venom Geek Media 98 - The Dederidex iis clearly stronger than a Galaxy Class + was desinged to fight big ships & has more internal volume , also they can add modules (incl. Labs) inside the void space ... Romulan & Federation shields were useless against Dominion weapons
If the Galaxy Class was a mobile Embassy, the D'Deridex was a mobile military parade. It doesn't have to beat you, but it does have to scare you into hesitating
11:00 The problem with that theory is the placement of the weapons on the D'deridex; like the Klingons, the overwhelming majority of its firepower is forward-facing, implying a barrage or standoff style of combat in fleet actions; which is perfectly fine in fleet actions so long as you have midline cruisers and flanking picket-ships to keep your back line formation safe. But neither of those are what the D'deridax's was made to do. It was designed for asymmetrical warfare. Its true strength lies in its shock value: Imagine this massive green hulk of death decloaking before you and demanding your surrender. Those that refuse to yield receive a withering barrage of various forward mounted weapons before the target can properly respond. This sort of battle doctrine makes sense when you're expecting to face numerous smaller size ships in peacetime skirmishes, while still wanting to present yourself as possessing a real military hammer. That is the D'Deridex Warbird and in such sort of conflict, it is second to none. The Romulans built so many of them so they could double-team larger Federation ships (we saw this in TNG even) especially the titan that is the Galaxy class, who would very likely win in a straight up 1vs1 fight on account of being faster, more maneuverable, better shielded and with a superior range of effective fire than the mighty Romulan Warbird. In conventional large scale fleet battles, it is best suited as a second line ship that stands off and supports a push of other ships. On one hand, this is a fine battle doctrine to follow as the Dominion proved; Battlecruisers and Battleship were specifically designed to support their frigates, cruisers and swarms of fighters with long range weapon barrages. On the other hand, that was a type of war the Romulan Star Empire was never prepared to fight; lacking a solid mid-range cruiser or frigate capable of fully-realizing the tactics necessary. Even the Federation had scores of smaller and intermediate classes from its larger flagships. (and why so many ancient Miranda class ships were thrown into the teeth of enemies nearly a century more advanced than they were ever designed to fight) Ironically, I think in a 1vs1 scenario, the D'deridex beats the Dominion Battleship handily simply because the Romulan ship has a cloak and can play hit-and-fade with powerful frontal alpha-strikes ,while the Dominion Battleship has to turn its entire mass in order to bring its heavier broadside to bear, only for the warbird to re-cloak and reposition, striking from advantage each time. But since Dominion ships never operate like that, "realistically" (he said, talking about a fictional setting like a total nerd) that would never, happen, and the battleships/battlecruisers would always be heavily escorted and screened. The Alpha Quadrant forces were woefully unprepared for that sort of doctrine, as they had conducted a far different sort of battle for centuries prior to the Dominion War. Only the Klingons had a fleet that was (even if by accident) well-equipped to counter the swarms of Dominion fighters and frigates. Of all the factions (even the Cardassians) the Romulans would be the worst vs solo action against Dominion battle doctrine, specifically because of their over-reliance on asymmetrical tactics centered on the D'Deridex, which cannot hope to hold up on the strategic board in an open war. If I'm the Dominion, and you're the Romulans, then the few losses I take scouring your space of your ambush pods of cloaked ships, I make up for in seizing major population-production centers and supply lines because in a straight up fight your ships are too slow to handle my fighters/frigates, and directly outgunned by my capital craft at the same effective range. The Dominion is built to decisively conquer and has no qualms with throwing large numbers of soldiers away to cost-effectively destroy its opposition, while the Romulans are confined to more limited populations to draw from. In my mind, that's why they got mauled and why it was (seemingly paradoxically) stupid of them to not back the Alpha Quadrant coalition earlier. What the Klingons and Federation lost in casualties, they gained long term in the proving grounds of war. While they rolled out new solutions to both the Dominion and the Borg the Romulans stagnated and suffered for it when they did join the war. As awful as it sounds, the best proving ground for military theory is not the war room, but the battlefield. Armchair Ideas considered sensible in peacetime are exposed for what they are in the crucible of war. It may not fit into the Roddenberry ideal, but as we saw, Star Trek became imminently better the moment writers were allowed to explore concepts outside of his idealistic idea box.
I'm willing to agree that a Romulan quantum singularity power plant could be more reliable than a MAMR found on a Starfleet ship, but not necessarily more powerful. In the TNG episode _Tin Man_ one of the warbirds flying to Beta Stromgren struggled to keep up with the Enterprise, though I will concede that could be attributed to better coil design on the Galaxy class.
While you are correct they did have problems with keep up with the Enterprise they also were able to "over heat" their engines and would have beat the Enterprise to Tin Man had not Tin Man intervened by destroying one D' Deridex and crippling the other . (if I remember correctly)
We really have no idea. We don't know how they draw power from a singularity or how much of the singularity they have the technology to harness. We also don't know how advanced the Romulan eps grids are (how much of that power can be put to use).
The "legendary" Enterprise-D engineer had already tinkered his engines for years, he even impressed the (simulated) starship propulsion engineer who originally designed it. Gotta pimp up that Federation Flagship, bling bling. But it's unlikely any "legendary" engineer similarly upgraded the Warbird's engines. So a direct comparison may be unfair.
Supposedly, the use of a singularity engine restricts its max speed. It can do Warp 9, but anything beyond that, it starts doing irreparable damage to the warp engines. That is why tehy could not keep up with the Enterprise. I can see how a singularity may limit warp speed. The warp engines literally warp space asdoes a singularity (aka black hole) Ay soe point, tehy may interfere with each other.
I think D'eridex is a king of the field in the time this class was introduced because: Klingon Empire is in economic recession since Praxis incident, so no big ships here and what they have in field is aged, obsolete and deployed using ancient tactics and logistics. More like a petty excuse for a fleet living on its past glory days, which sadly are long over. Combined with completely destabilised political situation at the time, their threat assesment is near zero. Feds have good economy, big ships, which however are designed as science vessels ie. full of civilians with families, good sensory equipment, strong shields, but rarely armed with anything serious (fancy those phasers all ye want, it's just overpolished junk. In reality nothing beats the disruptors and who cares if they are weak against shields. It's what torpedoes are for anyway). However Feds can still refit their vessels for combat in very short time and have shown to be extremely expansionist, but also quite cowardly in the Romulan eyes as they choose to fight only as a last resort option. Threat assesment is quite high due to their expansionism and apparent attempts to create a political block they would then dominate. So whatcha gonna do? Build a large fleet and destroy them? Do you have ANY idea how costly that would be? What would it take and how potentially disastrous it can turn itself to be? Feds may be weak in terms of military and army traditions, but they still have this weird ability to find powerful friends in unlikeliest of places and can stave of defeat for so long, that their destruction would be a complete tantamount to a Phrygian Victory. Or will you rather counter ambitions of them pesky space Hippies by building a smaller fleet of Behemotic scarecrows, that on 1v1 easily outclass anything and everything else present by the time in whole quadrant. And as for Fed political block > who would guess...it came to be the case during late stages of Dominion war, after which Feds emerged as now completely unopossed party. To explain, end of Dominion war left Klingon Empire completely wrecked by waging devastating wars against pretty much everybody around with their obsolete equipment and idiotic "hooraah" tactics, which left much of their already aged fleet and infrastructure in ruins. Romulans are glad they can lick their wounds only to plunge into civil war and as if that wouldn't be enough a complete destruction of their home system shortly after leaving Feds to be the largest stable Political Hegemony in the Quadrant
I figured D'deridex was probably introduced in the 2340's around the time of the loss of the Enterprise-C, so the Romulans would know about the Ambassador-class, and was built to counter that ships which would have been a size jump compared to the preceding classes. The Galaxy is not much bigger.
that would make the D'deridex very old. in the Episode of 'Wings of Romulus' i state that the enterprise C was destroyed by Vmelak warbirds. a precursor to the D'deridex. but certainly the romulans weren't expecting to fight anything bigger than the ambassador. so the galaxy was something of a surprise.
The real reason there are so few Romulan ship designs is of course that Star Trek in the TNG/DS9 years did not have limitless budgets and had a hectic production schedule, so there was limited time and money to design non-Federation ships. And Klingons got the bulk of the attention of other factions until the Dominion war when Romulans started featuring more. The video also seems to assume Romulans approach ship design like the federation - that when technology evolves they design a new ship class that is distinct from previous ones. But what if the d’Deridex class ships are a platform, where the ships are upgraded as technology evolves rather building entirely new ships from the ground up each time? Though that’s just an in-world justification for the time and money issue.
The D'deridex is supposed to be about twice as long as a Galaxy Class, with significantly greater firepower as per official published sources such as the Star Trek encyclopedia. On the other hand, in terms of 'true' alpha canon, those details have never outright been said, to my knowledge. While the D'deridex always looks awesomely impressive, it never looks THAT much larger than a Galaxy class on the screen. Not that Star Trek is very consistent with scaling. Personally, I do prefer the smaller size estimates; partially due to what is seen on screen, but mostly in that the Romulans having the economy and industry to make many of these colossal ships has always been questionable to me. On the other hand, the 'hollowness' of these colossal ships does seem more than a little appropriate! 'Hollow' though they may be, the 'shell' of the head and wings and stern are still considerable. In a way, the design is sort of 'Klingon' in that the 'head' module is large and massive towards the rest of the ship. Even a smaller size estimate is still probably more massive than the Galaxy class. Going a bit on a tangent, the Galaxy might have larger dimensions than the Ambassador Class, but a side to side comparison reveals that the Galaxy is much more 'elegant' and 'finer' in its shapes. the Ambassador being more blocky and massive. I'm not sure that Galaxy is hugely greater than the Ambassador for that reason in size and volume. I think that the proportionate size increase from Excelsior to Ambassador is greater than Ambassador to Galaxy. So, I think that the Ambassador blew people's minds when it was rolled out. Its name being indicative of peace so as its potential for 'gunboat diplomacy' was understated. It might have been the impetus for the Klingons to start planning larger cruisers, and likely the reason for the Romulans to design the D'deridex. Albeit, the idea of a big ship fending off a lot of Federation old ships likely could play a role. If nothing else, the Federation used a lot of Miranda variants. The Galaxy itself being a response towards the new Klingon cruisers and especially to the Romulan D'deridex. I have no problem with the D'deridex having greater firepower, the Federation ships being multi-role vehicles that politically can't be straight up warships. Although, having considerable defenses, particularly powerful shields and sensors.
What is your analysis on the Valpado Warbird? Do you think it's an improvement over the D'deridex? I personally think it is. The D'deridex seems to be bulkier and more armored, but it also always seemed slow and hard to maneuver in a battle. The Valpado on the other hand seems to have more weapons and is much faster and more maneuverable while being only a bit smaller then the D'deridex. That is my take on it at least. What do you think? Edit: AM I DRUNK OR WHAT?! I meant to say *Valdore Warbird!* Why do I keep thinking "Valpado" like it's a thing?!
The best example of how large the Warbird is, is Deep Space Nine. When the Tal'shiar and Obsidian Order ships decloak, one of the Warbirds is close to the station and it looks damn near the same size.
@@MrDibara We've only seen the Valdore in Nemesis. It's obviously much smaller than the D'deridex; but officially, it's just over 600 meters long, which means that it's probably over 700 meters wide. It certainly couldn't be considered a small ship. For all its slenderness, it might still qualify as a heavy cruiser. Still, for its slenderness suggesting lightness and speed, it is likely a battle cruiser, or fast cruiser. The Valdore certainly can move and is more graceful than the D'deridex. Personally, I have to believe that the D'deridex must have a ton of secondary weapons we've never seen; but its primary weapons in the 'head' typically get the job done. I suspect that there MIGHT be power issues after the primary weapons fire? That might explain the D'deridex poor showing in VOYAGER what with the Prometheus being stolen? Anyway, for all its size and supposed power, the D'deridex does seem to fail to impress. But it is probably a serious cannon to be standing in front of. Much of its poor showing might be due to its scale and mass making it almost like a stationary target. It might just get hit so readily that its shields just SEEM weak? But, even if so, that still suggests a liability. The Valdore being a far more nimble adversary, is much more likely to avoid hits; I woujld doubt that it can deliver as much attack damage. Due to its smaller scale and gracile appearance, I would suggest that the D'deridex is still the heavy hitter, but the Valdore is intended to cover for its weaknesses, serving as guard ships for the over-heavy dreadnoughts.
The issue I have with this is the focus on volume and mass above everything. Bigger is not better, it just means you can mount more stuff on the vessel. Which is nice, but doesn't mean anything if no thought is put into its function. Things that should be considered are things like surface area dedicated to weapons and how many guns it can bring to bear on a single target, does it cover all angles with point defense weapons, structural integrity, speed and maneuverability, fuel consumption/ time in the field before need of resupply, what kind of escorts can it carry if any and how many/for how long, etc. Most importantly though: what roe does it fill on the battlefield given all that information, and how well does it do its job. In this respect we can dive a bit deeper. The D'deridex warbird is an excellent carrier, battleship, command ship, and hit and run vessel. First the carrier role: It has no need for refueling and rations/replacement parts are replicated for the most part using the ship's own power supply. It has ample space to mount and carry even corvettes and small cruisers in its belly aswell as hangars throughout. On top of this because of the hollowed out design, these smaller craft are better protected from enemy fire as they launch. This not only means it can serve as a traditional fighter launching platform, but a fleet support vessel, providing resupply, and long range transport for virtually anything that can fit inside, and theoretically, it could operate for years like this without any outside support. Second the Battleship: the D'deridex has a large array of weapons, excellent firing arcs for the front, back, and to some extent the sides due to the sloping shells that make up its frame. Giving it almost an ISD dagger shaped silhouette in the rear, and a similar if not equal amount of firepower in the front by leveraging the inside surface of the ship aswell as the prow to mount just as many if not more weapons for a forward barrage. Combine this with the advanced shields it carries and good structural integrity and redundancy that comes with its mass, and you have a warship that can properly brawl with an enemy vessel. Now I do know that the ship isn't said to have convergent arcs like this, but there's no reason it shouldn't, and it wouldn't take much to adapt this into the design. Say four disruptor cannons on each side of each of the four wings. That makes 32 guns plus whatever's on the prow. I would add more, but that's being conservative to just barely cover the blindspots in all directions. Third, Command: As the D'deridex is already designed to fill a carrier role, it is entirely viable to leave it at the rear of a formation, or at least at a safe distance from the fighting to act as fleet support during a battle. Combine this with the cloaking device, and you have an opportunity do direct the flow of battle using any perspective you wish without allowing the enemy to ever locate, let alone destroy or cut off your command and control ship. Finally hit and run: I mean this in a similar fashion to how the Klingons used their birds of prey during the Dominon War, though it works just as well for a smaller scale battle rather than the strategic view. Small groups of warbirds, three to four strong, penetrating deep into enemy territory under cloak, hitting hard, then fading away and retreating at high warp without ever being detected. With the ability to literally disappear from view, this kind of guerilla warfare is possible with any class of ship, not just small escorts. With a heavier class of warship you're also dealing more damage in a shorter period of time. It's further compounded in the case of the D'deridex because, again, it never has to resupply. Meaning you can send a squadron deep into enemy territory and have them wreak havoc for years before reporting back if you want. In conclusion: without being a hyper realistic design (which I can and have designed a better warship than this for a more realistic setting), it's one of the best star ships I've seen. Definitely the best in contemporary science fiction. At least, it has the potential to be.
Agree, without proper use of the space, a bigger ship is just a bigger target. If it has the same power generation, same weapons and same number of weapons, the size doesn't make it tactically better
If we are to believe canon, then the Romulan fleet was very small compared to the Feds. So the D'deridex had better be able to kick Galaxy class butt. Or else the Romulans get diminished to the second tier forces like the Breen or Cardasians. Powerful, but not Klingon or Federation powerful. The rich guy from the TNG episode points out that everyone showed massive fear when the two Romulan ships decloaked which I don't see happening if the Cardasians had popped up. Your excellent docs seem to paint the Romulans and Klingon ships as formidable attackers but much more vulnerable when defending as compared to more well rounded forces like the Federation or Dominion. In other words (and I'm overly simplifying), want to invade the Cardasians, the D'deridex is your go to. Want to fend off a Dominion invasion, maybe the Galaxy class is a better platform overall. And this is in line with the psychology of the ship builders. As for hull volume, I'd suggest Archimedes for a definitive answer.
The thing that put the Dominion ahead of the Federation,Klingons,Romulans, is the polaron weapons. Size is not power. Plenty of small ships in ST can out gun larger vessels. What matters is technology, shields, armor. The Romulans, for all the size of the D'Deridex, were not as advanced as the Federations Galaxy class, and the Dominion vessels were more advanced still. In a stand up fight the Dominion ships weapons could penetrate any Alpha Quadrant powers shields, and most ships hulls up until the Defiant that introduced ablative armor. It wasn't until later in the war that any power developed shields that could resist Dominion energy weapons, and even then the Dominion would simply kamikaze corvettes into bigger ships, throwing away one quick to build ship, and quick to grow crew, for one difficult to build ship, and lifetime to grow crew. There is a scene in the final battle over Cardassia where they do exactly that to a Vor'Cha, rendering it effectively destroyed. But the tech in ST was never about size, it's not Star Wars. What determines how effective a ship is in ST is the technology it possesses. It doesn't help the Romulans that the Galaxy can stand toe to toe with a single D'Deridex and it's not even a warship. It's a exploratory and diplomatic vessel. It would be like a US aircraft carrier getting stonewalled by a Carnival Cruise ship. I can imagine that it pissed off the Romulans and Klingons a great deal that the Federation didn't see them as enough of a threat to build dedicated warships to fight, but the Borg and the Dominion warranted a more serious response from them. Has to hurt their pride. As for the singularity drive, canon states that they require more maintenance. It produces more power but requires more to achieve similar performance. They are inefficient and work intensive. And if you lose containment in a Warbird, your ship collapses into a micro black hole before anyone has a chance to evacuate.
great overview. i think this is the most elegant design of all its contemporary. but having said that, it about an equal match for galaxy. its bigger but slower and its q singularity core is less stable than warp core. galaxy is quicker, turn faster better engine. i could be wrong though. its been a while
The D'deridex also seemed like THE ONLY class of Warbird that the Romulans had! As cool looking as it was, I honestly would've loved to see some variety. Thank goodness for the Valpado, it is actually a sick looking Warbird that also seems to be an improvement over the D'deridex. (screw big and intimidating, let's go for more weapons, speed and maneuverability) Edit: I meant to say *Valdore.* Why do I keep saying "Valpado", what is wrong with me?!
I think while the Warbird has probably more forward facing weaponary, the Galaxy has more coverage but less powerful weapons. However........with the cloaking device..the Galaxy would not even see it coming. A well targeted engine attack out of cloak and its a done deal. Warbirds would not fight until they themselves had the advantage. Either by numbers or surprise.
The only problem with Galaxy is having families onboard. If there were no families onboard, Galaxy could go all in without the worries of protecting the families plus more power to the shields and weapons from life support that you need for the families.
A good example was the episode ´Tin Man¨ were the D´Deridex warbird fired only one short burst of their main disruptors and toke out 70% of the Enterprise D shields ... so yeah considering is at twice the size the D´Deridex can over power a Galaxy class.
@@blackmondayy1 Bear in mind that D'deridex was burning all its warp drives into the weapons, so it basically overcharged that disruptor volley in an effort to get a one-up on the Enterprise. In another standoff, a D'deridex fires a whole volley of disruptors (not sure if the second one joined the fun) and the Enterprise shields were still holding. So the D'deridex may be superior in terms of firepower, but it's not like a Galaxy-class doesn't stand a chance at all against it.
Welp as far the first battle in the Dimenion war goes . The real problem for them would have been their shields did not work against the Jem harder weapons .
I've heard from somewhere that forced singularity drives cannot be shutdown after activation. So imagine retiring a D'Deridex. By remote you would have to let basically a black hole destroy the ship.
An "artificial quantum singularity" is already a vaguely impossible thing which ignores inconvenient physics and hides under soft-science Treknobabble. But even if it is indeed an artificial black hole it's not necessary a very "big" one. Microsingularities can speculatively exist, they might even be small enough to radiate energy faster than they could (normally) replenish mass through gravity capture. They certainly wouldn't be more dangerous to the ship than typical explodium Federation warp cores.
There is also the possibility of ejecting the singularity core. I don't know how much distance can a D'deridex safely travel at full impulse and be clear of the singularity's detonation once the core has been ejected.
@@pwnmeisterage actually artificial (Romulan made) quantum (small and Kugelblitz) singularity (well...singularity) is far more in line with our physics than M/ARA / Federation warp cores.
It never made sense to me that Starfleet had more ship designs than the entire Alpha/Beta/Gamma quadrant's major races combined. Yes, I understand the Federation consists of multiple races and thus fielded more varieties, but I guess at the end of the day, it comes down to story budgeting for studios/ and the ease of kitbashing Federation ship designs as opposed to the other race's ships standard designs.
Many people have said that the variety allows the Federation to adapt quickly. While both Romulan and Klingdom had very few "jack of all trades" megaships. Dont take me wrong.. They all got beaten hard by the Dominnion but all for different reasons.. The federation for relying on crappy shield technology despite knowing that their shields could be bypassed by Dominion like technology. The Klingdom for relying on ancient designs. The Romulan for thinking that the D'Derix, a jack of all trades.. would beat specialized ships (and thus getting decimated by suicidal Jem Hadar ships)
At least the Klingons started to show a lot of variety too and the Cardassians weren't half bad either. But yeah, the Romulans seemed to ONLY have D'deridex Warbirds. Thank God Nemesis introduced the Valpado Warbird, finally some variety! Edit: Sorry, I meant to say Valdore Warbird.
@@CesarinPillinGaming That seems like an in-world justification for what the real reason was - budgeting. Star Trek during the TNG/DS9 years didn’t have limitless budgets and had a pretty hectic production schedule, which meant that there was only so much time and money to design different ship classes for other races. And Romulans got far less screen time than the Klingons did.
Starfleet mission profile is more extensive than other navies. We only see D'deridex because it's the ship designed to operate in enemy territory, there out to be smaller cheaper ships for protection. Klingons have a war navy and their ships just need to fill the fighting roles their doctrine dictates
I think the D’deridex was more powerful than the galaxy class but the Galaxy was more agile and had more redundant systems. I still feel like they were evenly matched.
The Dederidex can be used as a command ship in a fleet or if put in to wings with 3 in each can be used to pilush through enemy lines as all would reinforce each others wepon arks
Size is not really a good indication of the Warbird's power generation capacity considering D'deridex is using a kugoblitz (singularity) while the Galaxy class is using a an M/A reactor. It's probably safe to say the Warbird's got a lot more energy potential then a Galaxy-class. Also Aandrew Probert stated the class is 1345m in length.
Re: Omarian nebula - smaller ships is relative. They were counting on facing ships like Miranda and Constellation or B'rel in large numbers, not fighter sized vessels.
I love the D'deridex. It will forever be my favourite Romulan ship. Maybe my favourite ship in all of star trek tbh. I just wish the one in sto was better.
For one instant, the Federation was more powerful than anything that could have been set before them... Remember the episode in the seventh season The Pegasus? Not only the ship could cloak, but it could pass through matter. Meaning while cloaked, that ship could stand still and 10 ships could fire anything in its position, and they would just sit there and just smile back at you. Imagine if they could've built on that technology and to take it a little further and be able to fire while cloaked. The Federation would be even invincible to the Borg. Treaty or no Treaty, that technology would've been one of the answers to defeating the Borg or any other rival for that matter. I would love to see a movie follow up on that episode.
When a D'deridex decloaks, this for her adversary would be a terrifying sight. Her opponent would have to be at a fair distance away from her in order for the ship to properly target her opponent and score a direct hit upon firing considering the ship's immense size. The D'deridex should of had a compliment of smaller range cannons in order to bridge this gap. This is rare for Star Trek but if x wing type fighters were to engage her, the ship would require an even larger compliment of cannons capable of dealing with this closer range of fire.
I think the TNG era Galaxy would be somewhat weaker vs it's contemporary Warbird in terms of total weaponry, but with stronger shields, faster speeds, and higher maneuverability, but once it was upgraded during the Dominion War (Venture refit), it is significantly more powerful than the upgraded version of the Warbird (as no Galaxies were known to have been lost over the actual Dominion War proper minus the Odyssey)
D'Deridex was romulan equivalent of Excelsior, as in mass-produced, multi-purpose workhorse! Scimitar was the equivalent of Dominion, single-purpose built battleship!
Except the Scimitar is not technically Romulan, but Reman. ALSO it had help from a clone of Picard. Seriously, the only other warship the Romulans seemed to have designed was the Valpado Warbird and it only appears in ST Nemesis!! (DAMMIT, that is my favourite Romulan ship!) Edit: Okay, I must be clearly drunk. Why the hell did I say "Valpado" instead of *Valdore?!*
I have log ever fight seen with romulans, Klingon, FEDERASION ships from movie and TNG and DS9. The warbird hull is very weak for ship of its size but Shields are very good just behind enterprise. It weapons are slow but much stronger per blast. Weapons power/speed 175,000 tw Romulan slow 32,500 tw Klingon fast 65,000tw Federation med to fast.
i'd agree but because the warbird is not expecting to fight battleship caliber vessels like the galaxy. its more intended to take out medium to light cruisers and frigates. because that is what the majority of alpha quadrant fleets are composed of. the Galor for Cardassians, wolf 359 ships for the federation. and the Klingon Kvort.
if it was designed for heavy escorts, then they missed the Defiant... After all, two Defiants and an Akira went after two Warbirds and the captured Prometheus with confidence
You are wrong about your power theories. The Federation uses matter antimatter as a power source. The energy output from this kind of reaction would be enormous. The energy from a quantum singularity that the romulans use in the D'deridex would also be enormous. As far as power goes one does not have a significant advantage over the other. The romulans use the quantum singularity because it helps better with their cloaking devices. If the quantum singularity is damaged, the results can be catastrophic, just like a warp core breach. The one advantage that Federation ships have sticking with matter-antimatter systems is that Federation starships can be shut down to be decommissioned. When a romulan warbird D'deridex is powered up, the power source can not be shut down.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I don't know about how much a Federation ship needs refueling, but I do know that Federation ships go on five year missions at least. I don't think that refueling is a problem. If a quantum singularity was a better energy source/propulsion system for Federation vessels, I think the Federation would be using it. As stated before, The romulans use the quantum singularity because it is a better fit for the D'deridex cloaking device, which in Star Trek lore is one of the best and most advanced cloaking systems known.
@@johnmckenna5782 im pretty skeptical of the 5 year mission slogan, there are plenty of episodes in TOS and TNG where they stop at bases or make Rendezvous with other ships. i agree that the quantum singularity is something that results from divergent romulan tech, but i dont agree that antimatter is a superior source of energy. if you watch my wings of romulus on the d'deridex you will see what i mean.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Everytime that those ships stopped at Star Bases or make rendezvous's with other ships, they don't say that they are refueling their starships. What about Voyager that was stuck in the Delta Quadrant and it was going to take them decades to get back to the Alpha Quadrant? It is stated in Starfleet that ships are sent on at least 5 year exploratory missions. Also, I am not saying that antimatter is a superior source of energy to the quantum singularity. What I am saying is that it is not inferior to the quantum singularity. Both have their advantages and drawbacks, but matter-antimatter is a better fit for the Federation while the quantum singularity is a better fit for the D'deridex in the Romulan Star Empire. I think that we will just have to agree to disagree if you feel otherwise.
I always compared the D'deridex class and the Galaxy class to two ships in real world situation. In WWII the Japanese had the Yamato a huge battleship with huge armaments, it was an intimidating ship. It served Japan when it entered the war all the way till it was sunken before the bombs were drop. Then towards the end of the war, sometime after Peral Harbor, America made the Iowa class battleship. On paper it was faster, more agile and had better fire power but the 2 ships never actually fought each other. Both side knew of the other ship and its capabilities but no one know for sure who would come out as the victor if there was a fight between the two ships.
Being we never see a warbird in battle a single time during STTNG it would be impossible to know just how powerful this class is until it's been observed in battle. We know the warbird uses disrupter style weapons. But are the Romulans still using the vaunted plasma torpedo we see in TOS? If so, together with the cloak and disrupters, it would seem to give the warbird an advantage. But we'll never know. It was dissapointing that there never was a one on one battle between the two. Also, the Klingons do have large capitol ships in the Neg'Var class
yes the klingons have the Negh Var but that would not show up until the 2370s and even then it was comparatively rare. if your interested i've produced a more in-depth documentary on the origins of the D'deridex
We did see the Warbird unload on the Enterprise D in the episode "Tin Man" which took out 70% of its shields in one volley with it's main distributor. ua-cam.com/video/SniM702kN7Q/v-deo.html
So you mean to tell me that this class Romulan ship would defeat the Galaxy class starship Enterprise. I thought this two ships were equally matched . That being so the Victor would ultimately depend on who is the better Capt! Well that's my opinion anyway. Then again I'm a huge Enterprise D fan !
i thought D'deridex was roughly twice the size of a galaxy class, but only barely was more powerful than a Galaxy class in terms of weaponry, but failed in shielding capacity and manuverability as well as limited firing arc capacity compared to the newer much larger phaser arrays as to what was seen with the federation, previously, with ships of the older Ambassador Class. of course even a large ship like the D'deridex had a cloak that was not easily detected giving ambush advantage. If it is a known engagement with preparation and tactical awareness a galaxy class would typically outperform the larger vessel, 1 v 1, but in ambush scenario, or sabotage/intel the Romulans would have the upper hand.
As an ambush ship I think it could probably take out almost anything of it's era 1 v 1. Sneak up on another ship decloak and unload all your weapons. I don't see how any ship of the major races in the TNG/DS9/VOY period could recover from that.
It what depend on if the writers decide the galaxy-class can fire a spread of 5 to 10 photon torpedoes all the same time or if it's only fire one. The romulan strategy is very much dependent on their cloaking technology for ambushing so that's a big factor. If it gets the upper hand right away. Striking like....a bird of prey. Unexpected and sudden.
Picard was always unhappy whenever he saw an uncloaked Warbird on his viewscreen. Because he always had to expect more Warbirds nearby which he could _not_ see on his viewscreen.
Real easy don't know why the major debate.Warbird hands down why...First the warbird would be cloaked and choosing it's angle of attack.With weapons on full it would decloak and hammer the galaxy class ship greatly reducing shield strength from the start.Galaxy would go full evasive counter firing but the Warbirds shields are at full and would press the attack.The galaxy if she turned to fight full weapons spread would hurt the Warbirds shields but keep in mind the Warbirds power source allows it full power across the board while galaxy has to manage power.The second main barrage from the warbird would collapse the galaxy's shields unless she redirected power to facing shield but still would be endanger of shield failure and take medium to heavy damage because of no armor.During the engagement the galaxy could bring down one section of the warbirds shields but unlike the galaxy class the warbird is a warship so even though she hasn't the bulk and massive hull she is heavily armoured.From this point the warbird only has to maneuver to keep weakest shields out of the line of fire while their shots would continue to do full damage to the galaxy class until it's destruction.
Okay thinking about the fight there is one way the enterprise could win.It would be a Data saves the day maneuver and it's only if the warbird commander isn't to confident to slug it out and leans on the cloaking field.After the first strike and I'll give the enterprise having her shields up.Data could use the method he used to detect the romulan fleet that was shipping arms to Durass in the kinglon civil war.By taking both ships positions at the time of the attack speed,course changes by the enterprise and likely targets by the warbird.Data could calculate possible warbird positions and fire torpedoes In attempt to flag their position and strike the ship while their shields are down targeting the cloak to even the odds if not crippling the warbird all together.Its a long shot but it's possible.
How many disruptors did the Dare Dex have because the Galaxy class had 10 high-yield phaser Banks and Liquid Fire every angle can just sit there and put Pfizer fired every angle it's got two torpedo tubes that can Fire King Torpedoes at once and then 10 more it's got 250 torpedo how many Torpedoes does a DEX have
Every cannon source (which is supported by on screen evidence) places it's armament at 6 disruptors & 2 torpedo launchers. Occasionally I see 12 & 4 but they never provide any evidence for this and we never see it represented on screen so I call that an ass pull. They're woefully under armed.
Warbird Att 1,183,000 Shields 1,430,000 Armor and hull 650,000 Full deff 2,080,000 Enterprise Att 1,560,000 Shields 1,755,000 Hull 970,000(movie) or (TNG) 1,040,000 Full deff 2,730,000
It's a battleship and you wouldn't field a battleship without a cruiser squadron and a destroyer screen. Oh and a carrier. That's why the dominion trounced them.
To be fair, until they learned how to counter Phased Polaron Beams, those Jem'Hadar fighters were capable of destroying ANYTHING in the Alpha Quadrant, specially due to their swarming ammount.
of the 2 the D'deridex is more powerful then the original spec Galaxy class. the Dominion war refit Galaxy class closed the gap from a very hard fight that a galaxy is likely to lose to a hard fight that a galaxy could win 4 out of ten times.
I think you are wrong I think it's more of a glass canon than the galaxy class they ran away from the galaxy class and 3 birds of prey if you were right they wouldn't hesitate to smoke them but they probably didn't because they don't have the shield power or the ability to destroy a galaxy class and 3 birds of prey at the same time.
I think the D-Duridex is quite capable of taking down stronger ships if her captain is skillful enough, judging by Romulan tactics even if she was defeated it would be at quite a cost.
And they did Daryl X lock the older Klingon ships who got a weak spot the upper neck the connection points between the main head and the rest of that weak spot if I was fighting at the Dare that's not a Galaxy class if I can get them Shields down that's what I would Target the connection points or am I fire some Torpedoes to set to explode you know in that open area both fighting with the defiant and I got the shields down a flying at open area and blast it from the inside
one thing I never understood about Romulan ships powered by the singularity. is why they are not more powerful. after all its a black hole which is a never ending power source as far as I lnow!
the key benefit as you say is that its endless. as such it never needs to refuel or resupply. this means it can stay undercover in enemy territory for a potentially infinite length of time, the only limiting factor are the crew, and other components.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Poor choice of words on my part. I have an idea about intensity and duration of energy expenditure. It would of made for a better final battle at Cardasia. just because the Dominion had a bigger heavy battleship does not mean it was newer. It would of been an interesting battlr of a Romulan D'deridex vs Dominion Battleship.
I think it is slightly less powerful than a Galaxy class ship, otherwise I think the Romulans would have been more aggressive. Now they are always very cautious in one-on-one engagements. Say 90% as powerful. They likely have a lot more of them than Starfleet had Galaxy class ships though.
i'd be more tempted to say 110% of the galaxy class, dialogue leads us to believe they have an advantage, just not as much as you might think. if you Watch the 'Wings of Romulus' episode i go into detail as to what its intended role actually was.
Venom Geek Media 98 but if they had a large navy of such ships, why didn’t they try to provoke a war? Before the Borg encounter the Federation would have had little to stop the tide of auch an invasion?
because it would still be costly, and ideally they wanted to destroy the federation Klingon Alliance. otherwise they might have to fight both. and when they encounter the Galaxy class it was a surprise, the tech gap wasn't as big as they had imagined.
Venom Geek Media 98 hmm, maybe. I think it depends on how you look on the Romulans. I see them as punching above their weight by using subterfuge and spies. I still think making it too powerful disrupts the balance of power too much. On the other hand if they have much less of them it still works. It is just a matter of opinion though :)
true so the federation built only a handful of galaxy class ships. but thats as well as a mix of other classes. the federation workhorse was the excelsior, so overall the romulans probably had less, but overall more powerful than most federation ships.
Warbird DS9 Tech Manu 6 disruptor 175,500 TW. 2 torpedo 65,000 tw damage same as type x phaser. Att 1,183,000 Shields 1,430,000 Armor and hull 650,000 Full deff 2,080,000 22 shots Shields down (DS9) Jem'hadar weapons 65,000TW each from fighter. 10 shot to hull dead Att 1,183,000 Deff 2,080,000 (TNG) Weapons 7 shot take down Shields by 70% Galaxy class ship Shields are 1,755,000/10= 175,500 per disrupter bolt We also know from TNG the Shields power of Enterprise pased of Klingon disrupter of 32,500 bolts. And we know bolt of bird of prey from DOMINION fighter. Fighter is 195,000 (Shields and hull) dead after 6 shots on average.
thing is i don't trust the ds9TM as a source. it puts the warbird at just over 1000m. i try to find consistency with what is on screen. and critically what the designers intentions are.
Romulans get a hold of the Enterprise C, and build this in answer to leapfrog Federation tech; & you argue that the D'deridex isn't capable of fighting other first rates? If this is a Derp'Deridex, then it's a colossal waste of resources, and leaves a huge gap in fleet composition that would not be filled until the more efficient Reman warbird.
The D'deridex can fight other first rates and probably beat most. but they are not its preferred target. like i say its mean't to eat mid range cruisers for breakfast.
@@victorroche5044 not really. like i say the d'deridex can win. but its not the fight it was built for. you have to remember the Romulans design it blind with little knowledge of what starfleet was doing. so they build it to take on multiple mid size ships. and thats most of starfleet.
Size and mass of a ship doesn't make a ship more powerful. It's the technology and design put into it. Take all of the mass of this ship and fill in the empty middle, the ships length, width, and height would be much less.
That's the reason I say it so much and Next Generation years and universe the Romans are going to send their most powerful trip to deal with Federation soccer Federation University NC Galaxy class hope that you don't fire projection on both of them expected a United States team Arena craft carrier battle group
It's an ambush predator.. Decloaks, attacks, recloaks.. Doesn't have the nimbleness needed for a prolonged battle at all... Little Jem'Hadar ships run rings around it! It has no side weapons or arcs... Forward facing weapons only.. Disruptor beam on nose, 8 forward cannon on wings, fore and aft torpedoes - that's it... Quite poor vs multiple ships at once.. As an all round warship I would rate it lower than a Ferengi Marauder or Klingon K'Vort A good pilot in a Galaxy class would own the D'deridex - just get behind it and it needs to cloak or die... The gap in the middle has an invisible singularity floating in it, so not a vulnerable point.. :) Looks great, but poor internal design...
The Galaxy class was not designed to use it's main deflector as a weapon. If it were then it wouldn't overload half the ship's systems when it used it for that.
I'll go against the stream and say, the D'deridex can beat the dominion battleship and here is my reasoning: The battleship has several design flaws that are no problem in a fleetbattle, but break them in a 1v1, but that is what the question deals with. It turns and moves like a brick and the firepower to the aft-sector is not very good. The D'deridex can decloak at full impuls, on 4 o'clock, fire what it has while passing and recloaking. then move into a good position while reloading the energy-reserves and repeat the attackrun untill the battleship breaks. The battleship can't finish it through the shields in one run and the romulans can stay safely at range and focus on recharging. The dominion can't ever focus on regenerating because the moment the save their reserves the romulans can sweep in. In a fleetbattle the swarms of escort dominion-fighters would negate this problem and secure the flanks, but not in 1v1. It is the same result as a cruiser against a submarine without escort, the submarine hold the initiative and the cruiser will at some point eat a torpedo, or the submarine will run out of ammo and just leave.
I agree, the Warbird would win.
I think a Romulan warbird is designed to scare first, but if that doesn't work
Too bad we never got to see one go all out in the dominion war
In classic typing of warships the difference between battleship and battlecruiser is amor and speed not firepower.
The Battlecruiser has less armor and is faster than the battleship
Honestly I don't even know why this is such an issue when talking about scifi space ships and yet a lot of youtubers are so fixated on it. The difference between battleships and battlecruisers ended during world war 2. They started making battleships faster with so called "fast battleships" and putting heavier armor and bigger guns on the battlecruiser designs to compensate making them battleships. There was ever only a real difference between the two pre world war 2.
@@Bitchslapper316 Maybe in the future they don't use ww2 as the basis for classifying their SPACE SHIPS. ?
@@tyson31415 In the future they won't, they don't even do it in the modern world. In star trek and in most scifi they absolutely do. The term "battleship" is literally a word made just for the big world war 2 gun ships.
Starfleet Academy (and thus almost every Starfleet officer in the Federation) has a strange fixation and anachronistic indoctrination of late-20th- and early-21st-century pastiche anglo-American culture.
But they still sometimes get little things like language phrases and naval designations quite wrong.
Uuuuuhh... I think theyre using those old terms from ww2 in Starfleet.
Galaxy class: battleship.
Sovereign class: battlecruiser.
Though Ive seen the Nebula termed a battlecruiser, too. Which, is odd.
Why would Starfleet do this? Someone left a comment explaining in universe reason that sort of makes sense. An out of universe reason for trek using these old navy terms?
Gene Roddenberry served on the USS Enterprise during WW2.
Just saying, maybe that's why. In trek anyway. Other sci fi IPs have differing reasons and applications to the categorization of a starship.
I feel like the D'deridex was intended to engage Excelsior and Ambassador class ships (and to a lesser degree the Miranda, which was an extremely common design). Given it's age it would have likely been put into production as a response to the Ambassador, which had entered Starfleet service some 20 years prior to the D'deridex.
Answer:
As powerful as the plot needs it to be implied to be. There is no consistency in Star Trek, even in simple things like ship size and deck quantity.
To me, the Romulan Warbird was always less of a Eagle/Hawk and more of a Peacock, spreading it's feathers out as far as it can making it look bigger than it actually is.
You are gifted speaker please keep up the good work.
It's not only the power of the vessel that matters, is actually who commands it that vessel that matters, for example if the dominion battleship was commanded by someone who was completely in experienced then they would lose to another commander who had years of experience who was commanding a less powerful vessel.This is perfectly demonstrated in the deep space nine episode 'Once more unto the breach' where Kor crippled 10 Cardassian war ships using just one bird of prey. When General Martok asked how he do that, Worf simply said 'Does it matter, he is the Darhar Master'. In other words, experience will always determine success in battle.
experience is good, but a big ship doesn't hurt either.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Say that to the Defiant. ;)
Kor had some serious plot armor in that episode.
If you aren't properly equipped for a task you will fail it. The D'deridex only chance would be to get a jump on the dreadnought, damage her warp nacelles and then use hit and run, still at a tremendous disadvantage
Kor was actually facing 10 Jem'Hadar Fighters in a damaged Klingon Bird of Prey.
I’m really pretty good about volume and doing some thing and coming up with the volume. The nose section of the Romulan ship would be about equal to the volume of the federation saucer. The engineer in session would be the secondary hall of the Federation and I’m giving the Federation a little bit of leeway there. Can you have the entire top section where they have to man the weapon systems and then the bottom section which has flight decks and a few more weapons. I believe the entire tonnage volume of the Romulan ship would beat the Federation ship, about 1.8 .
I've always felt that the Romulan Warbird and the Galaxy Class were relatively equal as far as battle capability was concerned. Due to the wide firing arcs, the possible stronger shields, and the lack of blind spots on the Galaxy class it would probably outlast a Warbird in a firefight. Plus given its smaller size it would arguably be more agile as well. The Warbird, on the other hand, was more than likely superior from a forward firing angle. If it got the drop on a Galaxy class and fired first I don't see the Galaxy recovering fast enough to win but if the Galaxy had a chance to fully power up and survive the initial volley I see it or firing first I see it more than likely winning the fight. The Galaxy was a more rounded fighter which is why its survivability was so high in many of its battles. The Warbird was designed to decloak and hit hard as hell before moving onto its next target. This is why we see them usually hitting shipyards or larger ships that are either stationary or slow moving. We even get a quick shot of one engaging a Dominion Battleship (which I would've loved to see concluded). Sorry this is waay longer than I intended but I really get into ship comparisons. Anyway long story short Warbird vs Galaxy really just comes down to who gets the first shot and how hard that shot is.
It should be also pointed out that there were two versions of Galaxy and I'm not talking about immensely powerful Galaxy X. Enterprise was refitted as Explorer and as such have moderate shield and armament. So Picard may be correct that D'deridex was technically stronger, but Galaxy compensated it with better soft factors like. But there was also other variant utilized during Dominum War. Those ships were refitted as Battleships, with capacitors replacing labs and other stuff. I feel those could reliably kill D'deridex.
I'm in agreement with you. With early warning a Galaxy class will deliver a curb stomp all over Big Bird if it has the right commander. The Galaxy class showed in the Dominion war it was the better ship. Plus they had hot tubs for after a hard days pest control.
It seems like the Galaxy was bizarrely, even ludicrously underpowered for her weight class at the time of commissioning, but was saved from being a failed design by the extreme modularity and capacity for refit.
The Dominion goes from being able to effortlessly style on USS Odessey, even ignoring her shields, to her surviving sister ships forming the iron backbone of the Federation fleet by end of war.
I think there is a huge gap in technology between the federation and Romulans. A pre dominion war D'deridex may have been slightly more powerful than a galaxy class but I don't think it was by much. A dominion war refit galaxy class would mop the floor with a D'deridex. We have to remember that a D'deridex is a warship built for that purpose and a galaxy class was not. Look what star fleet did with an old ship like the Lokota, I can only imagine what they did with the galaxy class ships.
very true starfleet is very good at refitting current classes. whilst the romulans prefer to build new classes.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I feel starfleet is good at both, it just took open war to get starfleet committed to building warships. The Romulans and klingons on the other hand almost exclusively build warships. The advantage the federation has is that it has a huge population with a massive industrial backbone and cutting edge technology. Federation ships that were designed with combat in mind but never mass produced until the dominion war started such as the defiant, sovereign and akira class ships really highlighted that. Then we have the overpowered prometheus that was designed during the dominion war.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 You say that, yet the D'deridex were basically the only Romulan warships EVER to appear on the TV shows. The only other variant (and my favourite) to ever appear was the Valpado Warbird in the movie Nemesis.
Edit: SORRY! I meant to say *Valdore Warbird!* I must be drunk...
It's more on timing. Since the Excelsior, the federation has been the one to come up with new concepts, then the others work on counters. The D'deridex was older than the Galaxy, but stronger until the later's refit
I have always viewed the D'deridex as an assault ship. It has lots of disruptors, lots of torpedos, and can hold 4000 troops. If your ship isn't moving fast, it is going to have a bad day. With its disruptor layout, it becomes even more lethal when in close proximity to another D'deridex. I would think 3 galaxy class to take down 2 of these Warbirds. I think 3 fast ships like the Defiant could do just as well if not better than 3 Galaxy class.
Venom points out something interesting to your point. If Sisko said, keep me inside the D'deridex's hull, which I think the Defiant could do, that could be an effective way for one Defiant to take out multiple D'deridex ships. All it would have to do is survive while it made it's way to the center of each ship. God would I love to see that. The first comedy starship battle! Ten D'deridex-s fleeing a single Defiant class and Sisko screaming, 'hold still damn you!'
D’deridex-class vs. Imperial-class Star Destroyer
Warbirds have cloak. I'll vote Warbirds.
The Evil Galactic Empire basically controls (most of) a whole galaxy. The Romulan Star Empire basically controls a puny little chunk of a single galactic quadrant - a volume of space bordered on every side by enemies.
The Romulan warbird might win the 1v1 ship battle. If they ambushed from cloak.
The Romulan empire would not win the 1v1 galactic war ignited by the warbird's unprovoked attack.
@@pwnmeisterage Poster said ship vs ship, not RSE vs the Galactic Empire.
@@pwnmeisterage at that point of the empire was to invade i think at that point the federation and klingons would get involved
The Romulan technological advantage would make then seem magical to the Imeprials. It would be like the Santisima Trinidad or HMS Victory being ambushed by the USS Zumwalt; the ISD may not even know what was destroying it.
Great videos sir!..... :)
Everything I heard and read about the Warbird says that the Galaxy class is on par with it as far as offensive abilities. Where the Warbird shines is the cloaking device. If the Warbird were just to decloak and open up with everything, the Galaxy class would be screwed. However cloaking device aside, it would normally be an even match.
so the galaxy is pretty well rounded tactically, whereas the Warbird is intended to engage and destroy smaller frigates/cruisers stuff ranging from 250-500m in length, so the galaxy class is a little more than it can chew.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I disagree. In the episode Tin Man a Romulan Warbird opens up on the Enterprise. In one volley of fire, the Enterprises shields got taken down to 30%. Worf literally says "70% loss to the shields." From everything I heard, the Galaxy class can match that firepower. So an open battle between a Warbird and a Galaxy class would last only seconds. Here's a vid. ua-cam.com/video/SniM702kN7Q/v-deo.html
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Furthermore, I believe the Warbird was designed to fight MULTIPLE cruisers and frigates. It is a total match for a Galaxy class. I say they are even. The way the Galaxy class mows through Cardassian Galors, I would say that the Galaxy class was designed in the same fashion. To hold off multiple smaller ships.
yeah so in the defector ua-cam.com/video/jVmldpYnFzw/v-deo.html dialogue indicates the warbird can easily outgun the galaxy. although perhaps not to the extent believed, the warbird has an intimidating presence yes but its only slightly larger in hull volume than a galaxy. they had an advantage. i agree that the warbird is optimized to take on smaller ships when you look at the bulk of starfleet you see classes like the excelsior and new Orleans, crucially however we see that they don't do so well against very small ships like the defiant and jem'hadar fighters. whereas we do see the galaxy keeping them at bay.unfortunately we never really see them go up against ships of a similar size.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 The Warbird actually did defend Romulan space from hoards of Dominion attackers. They were actually proud of it during a DS9 episode. I forget exactly which episode. It's the one where the Romulan states "Romulans don't believe in luck."
We see it getting overwhelmed by massive numbers of Jem'hadar fighters only during the later parts of the war during major battles.
The Galaxy Class pre-dominion war makes sense as being weaker than the D'deridex.
It should be noted that the Galaxy was specced into speed and various science/multi purpose roles while the D'deridex was a specialized battleship.
I know that it is cannon that the smaller Dominion ships were able to really put a beating on the D'deridex ships but to me it's like how Worf seemed to always get beat up to show how strong the adversary was. Also the Galaxy class ship got smoked by the Dominion ships because of their weapons going through their shields. I think if the Romulans had been more invested in fighting the Dominion from the first sign of trouble, and had adapted their shields and weapons, the fights would have probably gone a much different way. As for it's combat role. I see the D'deridex as having a few big roles. 1. Planetary attack, 2. Space stations, 3. using the element of surprise, and firepower to ambush and destroy enemy ships of all sizes. What it was not designed for was flying in formation, uncloaked, and fighting large numbers of ships head on.
I personally like the Klingon Vor'cha. But the D'deridex?
It's a warbird. Enough said.
@Venom Geek Media 98 -
The Dederidex iis clearly stronger than a Galaxy Class + was desinged to fight big ships & has more internal volume , also they can add modules (incl. Labs) inside the void space ...
Romulan & Federation shields were useless against Dominion weapons
If the Galaxy Class was a mobile Embassy, the D'Deridex was a mobile military parade. It doesn't have to beat you, but it does have to scare you into hesitating
11:00 The problem with that theory is the placement of the weapons on the D'deridex; like the Klingons, the overwhelming majority of its firepower is forward-facing, implying a barrage or standoff style of combat in fleet actions; which is perfectly fine in fleet actions so long as you have midline cruisers and flanking picket-ships to keep your back line formation safe.
But neither of those are what the D'deridax's was made to do. It was designed for asymmetrical warfare. Its true strength lies in its shock value: Imagine this massive green hulk of death decloaking before you and demanding your surrender. Those that refuse to yield receive a withering barrage of various forward mounted weapons before the target can properly respond.
This sort of battle doctrine makes sense when you're expecting to face numerous smaller size ships in peacetime skirmishes, while still wanting to present yourself as possessing a real military hammer. That is the D'Deridex Warbird and in such sort of conflict, it is second to none.
The Romulans built so many of them so they could double-team larger Federation ships (we saw this in TNG even) especially the titan that is the Galaxy class, who would very likely win in a straight up 1vs1 fight on account of being faster, more maneuverable, better shielded and with a superior range of effective fire than the mighty Romulan Warbird.
In conventional large scale fleet battles, it is best suited as a second line ship that stands off and supports a push of other ships.
On one hand, this is a fine battle doctrine to follow as the Dominion proved; Battlecruisers and Battleship were specifically designed to support their frigates, cruisers and swarms of fighters with long range weapon barrages.
On the other hand, that was a type of war the Romulan Star Empire was never prepared to fight; lacking a solid mid-range cruiser or frigate capable of fully-realizing the tactics necessary. Even the Federation had scores of smaller and intermediate classes from its larger flagships. (and why so many ancient Miranda class ships were thrown into the teeth of enemies nearly a century more advanced than they were ever designed to fight)
Ironically, I think in a 1vs1 scenario, the D'deridex beats the Dominion Battleship handily simply because the Romulan ship has a cloak and can play hit-and-fade with powerful frontal alpha-strikes ,while the Dominion Battleship has to turn its entire mass in order to bring its heavier broadside to bear, only for the warbird to re-cloak and reposition, striking from advantage each time. But since Dominion ships never operate like that, "realistically" (he said, talking about a fictional setting like a total nerd) that would never, happen, and the battleships/battlecruisers would always be heavily escorted and screened.
The Alpha Quadrant forces were woefully unprepared for that sort of doctrine, as they had conducted a far different sort of battle for centuries prior to the Dominion War. Only the Klingons had a fleet that was (even if by accident) well-equipped to counter the swarms of Dominion fighters and frigates. Of all the factions (even the Cardassians) the Romulans would be the worst vs solo action against Dominion battle doctrine, specifically because of their over-reliance on asymmetrical tactics centered on the D'Deridex, which cannot hope to hold up on the strategic board in an open war.
If I'm the Dominion, and you're the Romulans, then the few losses I take scouring your space of your ambush pods of cloaked ships, I make up for in seizing major population-production centers and supply lines because in a straight up fight your ships are too slow to handle my fighters/frigates, and directly outgunned by my capital craft at the same effective range. The Dominion is built to decisively conquer and has no qualms with throwing large numbers of soldiers away to cost-effectively destroy its opposition, while the Romulans are confined to more limited populations to draw from.
In my mind, that's why they got mauled and why it was (seemingly paradoxically) stupid of them to not back the Alpha Quadrant coalition earlier. What the Klingons and Federation lost in casualties, they gained long term in the proving grounds of war. While they rolled out new solutions to both the Dominion and the Borg the Romulans stagnated and suffered for it when they did join the war.
As awful as it sounds, the best proving ground for military theory is not the war room, but the battlefield. Armchair Ideas considered sensible in peacetime are exposed for what they are in the crucible of war.
It may not fit into the Roddenberry ideal, but as we saw, Star Trek became imminently better the moment writers were allowed to explore concepts outside of his idealistic idea box.
The Dederidex is a work of art beautiful 😍
I'm willing to agree that a Romulan quantum singularity power plant could be more reliable than a MAMR found on a Starfleet ship, but not necessarily more powerful.
In the TNG episode _Tin Man_ one of the warbirds flying to Beta Stromgren struggled to keep up with the Enterprise, though I will concede that could be attributed to better coil design on the Galaxy class.
While you are correct they did have problems with keep up with the Enterprise they also were able to "over heat" their engines and would have beat the Enterprise to Tin Man had not Tin Man intervened by destroying one D' Deridex and crippling the other . (if I remember correctly)
We really have no idea. We don't know how they draw power from a singularity or how much of the singularity they have the technology to harness. We also don't know how advanced the Romulan eps grids are (how much of that power can be put to use).
The "legendary" Enterprise-D engineer had already tinkered his engines for years, he even impressed the (simulated) starship propulsion engineer who originally designed it. Gotta pimp up that Federation Flagship, bling bling.
But it's unlikely any "legendary" engineer similarly upgraded the Warbird's engines.
So a direct comparison may be unfair.
Supposedly, the use of a singularity engine restricts its max speed. It can do Warp 9, but anything beyond that, it starts doing irreparable damage to the warp engines. That is why tehy could not keep up with the Enterprise.
I can see how a singularity may limit warp speed. The warp engines literally warp space asdoes a singularity (aka black hole) Ay soe point, tehy may interfere with each other.
I think D'eridex is a king of the field in the time this class was introduced because:
Klingon Empire is in economic recession since Praxis incident, so no big ships here and what they have in field is aged, obsolete and deployed using ancient tactics and logistics. More like a petty excuse for a fleet living on its past glory days, which sadly are long over. Combined with completely destabilised political situation at the time, their threat assesment is near zero.
Feds have good economy, big ships, which however are designed as science vessels ie. full of civilians with families, good sensory equipment, strong shields, but rarely armed with anything serious (fancy those phasers all ye want, it's just overpolished junk. In reality nothing beats the disruptors and who cares if they are weak against shields. It's what torpedoes are for anyway). However Feds can still refit their vessels for combat in very short time and have shown to be extremely expansionist, but also quite cowardly in the Romulan eyes as they choose to fight only as a last resort option. Threat assesment is quite high due to their expansionism and apparent attempts to create a political block they would then dominate.
So whatcha gonna do? Build a large fleet and destroy them? Do you have ANY idea how costly that would be? What would it take and how potentially disastrous it can turn itself to be? Feds may be weak in terms of military and army traditions, but they still have this weird ability to find powerful friends in unlikeliest of places and can stave of defeat for so long, that their destruction would be a complete tantamount to a Phrygian Victory.
Or will you rather counter ambitions of them pesky space Hippies by building a smaller fleet of Behemotic scarecrows, that on 1v1 easily outclass anything and everything else present by the time in whole quadrant.
And as for Fed political block > who would guess...it came to be the case during late stages of Dominion war, after which Feds emerged as now completely unopossed party.
To explain, end of Dominion war left Klingon Empire completely wrecked by waging devastating wars against pretty much everybody around with their obsolete equipment and idiotic "hooraah" tactics, which left much of their already aged fleet and infrastructure in ruins. Romulans are glad they can lick their wounds only to plunge into civil war and as if that wouldn't be enough a complete destruction of their home system shortly after leaving Feds to be the largest stable Political Hegemony in the Quadrant
I figured D'deridex was probably introduced in the 2340's around the time of the loss of the Enterprise-C, so the Romulans would know about the Ambassador-class, and was built to counter that ships which would have been a size jump compared to the preceding classes. The Galaxy is not much bigger.
that would make the D'deridex very old. in the Episode of 'Wings of Romulus' i state that the enterprise C was destroyed by Vmelak warbirds. a precursor to the D'deridex. but certainly the romulans weren't expecting to fight anything bigger than the ambassador. so the galaxy was something of a surprise.
The real reason there are so few Romulan ship designs is of course that Star Trek in the TNG/DS9 years did not have limitless budgets and had a hectic production schedule, so there was limited time and money to design non-Federation ships. And Klingons got the bulk of the attention of other factions until the Dominion war when Romulans started featuring more.
The video also seems to assume Romulans approach ship design like the federation - that when technology evolves they design a new ship class that is distinct from previous ones. But what if the d’Deridex class ships are a platform, where the ships are upgraded as technology evolves rather building entirely new ships from the ground up each time? Though that’s just an in-world justification for the time and money issue.
The D'deridex is supposed to be about twice as long as a Galaxy Class, with significantly greater firepower as per official published sources such as the Star Trek encyclopedia. On the other hand, in terms of 'true' alpha canon, those details have never outright been said, to my knowledge. While the D'deridex always looks awesomely impressive, it never looks THAT much larger than a Galaxy class on the screen. Not that Star Trek is very consistent with scaling.
Personally, I do prefer the smaller size estimates; partially due to what is seen on screen, but mostly in that the Romulans having the economy and industry to make many of these colossal ships has always been questionable to me. On the other hand, the 'hollowness' of these colossal ships does seem more than a little appropriate!
'Hollow' though they may be, the 'shell' of the head and wings and stern are still considerable. In a way, the design is sort of 'Klingon' in that the 'head' module is large and massive towards the rest of the ship. Even a smaller size estimate is still probably more massive than the Galaxy class. Going a bit on a tangent, the Galaxy might have larger dimensions than the Ambassador Class, but a side to side comparison reveals that the Galaxy is much more 'elegant' and 'finer' in its shapes. the Ambassador being more blocky and massive. I'm not sure that Galaxy is hugely greater than the Ambassador for that reason in size and volume.
I think that the proportionate size increase from Excelsior to Ambassador is greater than Ambassador to Galaxy. So, I think that the Ambassador blew people's minds when it was rolled out. Its name being indicative of peace so as its potential for 'gunboat diplomacy' was understated. It might have been the impetus for the Klingons to start planning larger cruisers, and likely the reason for the Romulans to design the D'deridex. Albeit, the idea of a big ship fending off a lot of Federation old ships likely could play a role. If nothing else, the Federation used a lot of Miranda variants.
The Galaxy itself being a response towards the new Klingon cruisers and especially to the Romulan D'deridex. I have no problem with the D'deridex having greater firepower, the Federation ships being multi-role vehicles that politically can't be straight up warships. Although, having considerable defenses, particularly powerful shields and sensors.
What is your analysis on the Valpado Warbird? Do you think it's an improvement over the D'deridex?
I personally think it is. The D'deridex seems to be bulkier and more armored, but it also always seemed slow and hard to maneuver in a battle. The Valpado on the other hand seems to have more weapons and is much faster and more maneuverable while being only a bit smaller then the D'deridex.
That is my take on it at least. What do you think?
Edit: AM I DRUNK OR WHAT?! I meant to say *Valdore Warbird!* Why do I keep thinking "Valpado" like it's a thing?!
The best example of how large the Warbird is, is Deep Space Nine. When the Tal'shiar and Obsidian Order ships decloak, one of the Warbirds is close to the station and it looks damn near the same size.
@@MrDibara We've only seen the Valdore in Nemesis. It's obviously much smaller than the D'deridex; but officially, it's just over 600 meters long, which means that it's probably over 700 meters wide. It certainly couldn't be considered a small ship. For all its slenderness, it might still qualify as a heavy cruiser. Still, for its slenderness suggesting lightness and speed, it is likely a battle cruiser, or fast cruiser.
The Valdore certainly can move and is more graceful than the D'deridex. Personally, I have to believe that the D'deridex must have a ton of secondary weapons we've never seen; but its primary weapons in the 'head' typically get the job done. I suspect that there MIGHT be power issues after the primary weapons fire? That might explain the D'deridex poor showing in VOYAGER what with the Prometheus being stolen?
Anyway, for all its size and supposed power, the D'deridex does seem to fail to impress. But it is probably a serious cannon to be standing in front of. Much of its poor showing might be due to its scale and mass making it almost like a stationary target. It might just get hit so readily that its shields just SEEM weak? But, even if so, that still suggests a liability. The Valdore being a far more nimble adversary, is much more likely to avoid hits; I woujld doubt that it can deliver as much attack damage. Due to its smaller scale and gracile appearance, I would suggest that the D'deridex is still the heavy hitter, but the Valdore is intended to cover for its weaknesses, serving as guard ships for the over-heavy dreadnoughts.
The issue I have with this is the focus on volume and mass above everything. Bigger is not better, it just means you can mount more stuff on the vessel. Which is nice, but doesn't mean anything if no thought is put into its function.
Things that should be considered are things like surface area dedicated to weapons and how many guns it can bring to bear on a single target, does it cover all angles with point defense weapons, structural integrity, speed and maneuverability, fuel consumption/ time in the field before need of resupply, what kind of escorts can it carry if any and how many/for how long, etc. Most importantly though: what roe does it fill on the battlefield given all that information, and how well does it do its job.
In this respect we can dive a bit deeper.
The D'deridex warbird is an excellent carrier, battleship, command ship, and hit and run vessel.
First the carrier role: It has no need for refueling and rations/replacement parts are replicated for the most part using the ship's own power supply. It has ample space to mount and carry even corvettes and small cruisers in its belly aswell as hangars throughout. On top of this because of the hollowed out design, these smaller craft are better protected from enemy fire as they launch. This not only means it can serve as a traditional fighter launching platform, but a fleet support vessel, providing resupply, and long range transport for virtually anything that can fit inside, and theoretically, it could operate for years like this without any outside support.
Second the Battleship: the D'deridex has a large array of weapons, excellent firing arcs for the front, back, and to some extent the sides due to the sloping shells that make up its frame. Giving it almost an ISD dagger shaped silhouette in the rear, and a similar if not equal amount of firepower in the front by leveraging the inside surface of the ship aswell as the prow to mount just as many if not more weapons for a forward barrage. Combine this with the advanced shields it carries and good structural integrity and redundancy that comes with its mass, and you have a warship that can properly brawl with an enemy vessel. Now I do know that the ship isn't said to have convergent arcs like this, but there's no reason it shouldn't, and it wouldn't take much to adapt this into the design. Say four disruptor cannons on each side of each of the four wings. That makes 32 guns plus whatever's on the prow. I would add more, but that's being conservative to just barely cover the blindspots in all directions.
Third, Command: As the D'deridex is already designed to fill a carrier role, it is entirely viable to leave it at the rear of a formation, or at least at a safe distance from the fighting to act as fleet support during a battle. Combine this with the cloaking device, and you have an opportunity do direct the flow of battle using any perspective you wish without allowing the enemy to ever locate, let alone destroy or cut off your command and control ship.
Finally hit and run: I mean this in a similar fashion to how the Klingons used their birds of prey during the Dominon War, though it works just as well for a smaller scale battle rather than the strategic view. Small groups of warbirds, three to four strong, penetrating deep into enemy territory under cloak, hitting hard, then fading away and retreating at high warp without ever being detected. With the ability to literally disappear from view, this kind of guerilla warfare is possible with any class of ship, not just small escorts. With a heavier class of warship you're also dealing more damage in a shorter period of time. It's further compounded in the case of the D'deridex because, again, it never has to resupply. Meaning you can send a squadron deep into enemy territory and have them wreak havoc for years before reporting back if you want.
In conclusion: without being a hyper realistic design (which I can and have designed a better warship than this for a more realistic setting), it's one of the best star ships I've seen. Definitely the best in contemporary science fiction. At least, it has the potential to be.
Agree, without proper use of the space, a bigger ship is just a bigger target. If it has the same power generation, same weapons and same number of weapons, the size doesn't make it tactically better
If we are to believe canon, then the Romulan fleet was very small compared to the Feds. So the D'deridex had better be able to kick Galaxy class butt. Or else the Romulans get diminished to the second tier forces like the Breen or Cardasians. Powerful, but not Klingon or Federation powerful. The rich guy from the TNG episode points out that everyone showed massive fear when the two Romulan ships decloaked which I don't see happening if the Cardasians had popped up. Your excellent docs seem to paint the Romulans and Klingon ships as formidable attackers but much more vulnerable when defending as compared to more well rounded forces like the Federation or Dominion. In other words (and I'm overly simplifying), want to invade the Cardasians, the D'deridex is your go to. Want to fend off a Dominion invasion, maybe the Galaxy class is a better platform overall. And this is in line with the psychology of the ship builders. As for hull volume, I'd suggest Archimedes for a definitive answer.
The thing that put the Dominion ahead of the Federation,Klingons,Romulans, is the polaron weapons. Size is not power. Plenty of small ships in ST can out gun larger vessels. What matters is technology, shields, armor. The Romulans, for all the size of the D'Deridex, were not as advanced as the Federations Galaxy class, and the Dominion vessels were more advanced still. In a stand up fight the Dominion ships weapons could penetrate any Alpha Quadrant powers shields, and most ships hulls up until the Defiant that introduced ablative armor.
It wasn't until later in the war that any power developed shields that could resist Dominion energy weapons, and even then the Dominion would simply kamikaze corvettes into bigger ships, throwing away one quick to build ship, and quick to grow crew, for one difficult to build ship, and lifetime to grow crew. There is a scene in the final battle over Cardassia where they do exactly that to a Vor'Cha, rendering it effectively destroyed. But the tech in ST was never about size, it's not Star Wars. What determines how effective a ship is in ST is the technology it possesses. It doesn't help the Romulans that the Galaxy can stand toe to toe with a single D'Deridex and it's not even a warship. It's a exploratory and diplomatic vessel. It would be like a US aircraft carrier getting stonewalled by a Carnival Cruise ship. I can imagine that it pissed off the Romulans and Klingons a great deal that the Federation didn't see them as enough of a threat to build dedicated warships to fight, but the Borg and the Dominion warranted a more serious response from them. Has to hurt their pride.
As for the singularity drive, canon states that they require more maintenance. It produces more power but requires more to achieve similar performance. They are inefficient and work intensive. And if you lose containment in a Warbird, your ship collapses into a micro black hole before anyone has a chance to evacuate.
great overview. i think this is the most elegant design of all its contemporary. but having said that, it about an equal match for galaxy. its bigger but slower and its q singularity core is less stable than warp core. galaxy is quicker, turn faster better engine. i could be wrong though. its been a while
The D'deridex also seemed like THE ONLY class of Warbird that the Romulans had! As cool looking as it was, I honestly would've loved to see some variety. Thank goodness for the Valpado, it is actually a sick looking Warbird that also seems to be an improvement over the D'deridex. (screw big and intimidating, let's go for more weapons, speed and maneuverability)
Edit: I meant to say *Valdore.* Why do I keep saying "Valpado", what is wrong with me?!
I think while the Warbird has probably more forward facing weaponary, the Galaxy has more coverage but less powerful weapons. However........with the cloaking device..the Galaxy would not even see it coming. A well targeted engine attack out of cloak and its a done deal. Warbirds would not fight until they themselves had the advantage. Either by numbers or surprise.
The only problem with Galaxy is having families onboard. If there were no families onboard, Galaxy could go all in without the worries of protecting the families plus more power to the shields and weapons from life support that you need for the families.
Love these great videos! Love the Romulans. What episodes say the D'Deridex can over power a Galaxy Class?
A good example was the episode ´Tin Man¨ were the D´Deridex warbird fired only one short burst of their main disruptors and toke out 70% of the Enterprise D shields ... so yeah considering is at twice the size the D´Deridex can over power a Galaxy class.
@@blackmondayy1 Being twice the size doesn't mean anything. The defiant is a spec compared to it and could probably take one out.
@@blackmondayy1 Bear in mind that D'deridex was burning all its warp drives into the weapons, so it basically overcharged that disruptor volley in an effort to get a one-up on the Enterprise.
In another standoff, a D'deridex fires a whole volley of disruptors (not sure if the second one joined the fun) and the Enterprise shields were still holding. So the D'deridex may be superior in terms of firepower, but it's not like a Galaxy-class doesn't stand a chance at all against it.
Welp as far the first battle in the Dimenion war goes . The real problem for them would have been their shields did not work against the Jem harder weapons .
I've heard from somewhere that forced singularity drives cannot be shutdown after activation. So imagine retiring a D'Deridex. By remote you would have to let basically a black hole destroy the ship.
An "artificial quantum singularity" is already a vaguely impossible thing which ignores inconvenient physics and hides under soft-science Treknobabble.
But even if it is indeed an artificial black hole it's not necessary a very "big" one. Microsingularities can speculatively exist, they might even be small enough to radiate energy faster than they could (normally) replenish mass through gravity capture. They certainly wouldn't be more dangerous to the ship than typical explodium Federation warp cores.
There is also the possibility of ejecting the singularity core. I don't know how much distance can a D'deridex safely travel at full impulse and be clear of the singularity's detonation once the core has been ejected.
@@pwnmeisterage actually artificial (Romulan made) quantum (small and Kugelblitz) singularity (well...singularity) is far more in line with our physics than M/ARA / Federation warp cores.
It never made sense to me that Starfleet had more ship designs than the entire Alpha/Beta/Gamma quadrant's major races combined. Yes, I understand the Federation consists of multiple races and thus fielded more varieties, but I guess at the end of the day, it comes down to story budgeting for studios/ and the ease of kitbashing Federation ship designs as opposed to the other race's ships standard designs.
Many people have said that the variety allows the Federation to adapt quickly. While both Romulan and Klingdom had very few "jack of all trades" megaships.
Dont take me wrong.. They all got beaten hard by the Dominnion but all for different reasons.. The federation for relying on crappy shield technology despite knowing that their shields could be bypassed by Dominion like technology. The Klingdom for relying on ancient designs. The Romulan for thinking that the D'Derix, a jack of all trades.. would beat specialized ships (and thus getting decimated by suicidal Jem Hadar ships)
At least the Klingons started to show a lot of variety too and the Cardassians weren't half bad either. But yeah, the Romulans seemed to ONLY have D'deridex Warbirds. Thank God Nemesis introduced the Valpado Warbird, finally some variety!
Edit: Sorry, I meant to say Valdore Warbird.
@@CesarinPillinGaming
That seems like an in-world justification for what the real reason was - budgeting. Star Trek during the TNG/DS9 years didn’t have limitless budgets and had a pretty hectic production schedule, which meant that there was only so much time and money to design different ship classes for other races. And Romulans got far less screen time than the Klingons did.
Starfleet mission profile is more extensive than other navies. We only see D'deridex because it's the ship designed to operate in enemy territory, there out to be smaller cheaper ships for protection. Klingons have a war navy and their ships just need to fill the fighting roles their doctrine dictates
I think the D’deridex was more powerful than the galaxy class but the Galaxy was more agile and had more redundant systems. I still feel like they were evenly matched.
Would you be able to discuss the Keldon Class Cardassian ship? I have always been curious about it role and purpose in the over all Cardassian fleet.
It'll feature prominently in the next battlespace episode. But I'll also probably do a specific video on it
The Dederidex can be used as a command ship in a fleet or if put in to wings with 3 in each can be used to pilush through enemy lines as all would reinforce each others wepon arks
During the TV TNG Era it was THE SHIP Power wise. The klingons and Starfleet raised the bar., eventually.
Size is not really a good indication of the Warbird's power generation capacity considering D'deridex is using a kugoblitz (singularity) while the Galaxy class is using a an M/A reactor. It's probably safe to say the Warbird's got a lot more energy potential then a Galaxy-class. Also Aandrew Probert stated the class is 1345m in length.
Re: Omarian nebula - smaller ships is relative. They were counting on facing ships like Miranda and Constellation or B'rel in large numbers, not fighter sized vessels.
yes to the first two really anything between 200-500m long the b'rel is a similar size to the jem hadar fighter though.
The problem in that battle was not having the initiative and the shields being incapable to block polaron beams
I love the D'deridex. It will forever be my favourite Romulan ship. Maybe my favourite ship in all of star trek tbh. I just wish the one in sto was better.
my fav romulan vessel
For one instant, the Federation was more powerful than anything that could have been set before them... Remember the episode in the seventh season The Pegasus? Not only the ship could cloak, but it could pass through matter. Meaning while cloaked, that ship could stand still and 10 ships could fire anything in its position, and they would just sit there and just smile back at you. Imagine if they could've built on that technology and to take it a little further and be able to fire while cloaked. The Federation would be even invincible to the Borg. Treaty or no Treaty, that technology would've been one of the answers to defeating the Borg or any other rival for that matter. I would love to see a movie follow up on that episode.
When a D'deridex decloaks, this for her adversary would be a terrifying sight. Her opponent would have to be at a fair distance away from her in order for the ship to properly target her opponent and score a direct hit upon firing considering the ship's immense size. The D'deridex should of had a compliment of smaller range cannons in order to bridge this gap. This is rare for Star Trek but if x wing type fighters were to engage her, the ship would require an even larger compliment of cannons capable of dealing with this closer range of fire.
The three sisters were the best designed fictional starships ever built. Everything else is kitbash "progress".
I think the TNG era Galaxy would be somewhat weaker vs it's contemporary Warbird in terms of total weaponry, but with stronger shields, faster speeds, and higher maneuverability, but once it was upgraded during the Dominion War (Venture refit), it is significantly more powerful than the upgraded version of the Warbird (as no Galaxies were known to have been lost over the actual Dominion War proper minus the Odyssey)
D'Deridex was romulan equivalent of Excelsior, as in mass-produced, multi-purpose workhorse! Scimitar was the equivalent of Dominion, single-purpose built battleship!
Except the Scimitar is not technically Romulan, but Reman. ALSO it had help from a clone of Picard.
Seriously, the only other warship the Romulans seemed to have designed was the Valpado Warbird and it only appears in ST Nemesis!! (DAMMIT, that is my favourite Romulan ship!)
Edit: Okay, I must be clearly drunk. Why the hell did I say "Valpado" instead of *Valdore?!*
The Defiant is tiny. Size doesn't matter
Indeed. What made the Borg such a menace? The size of the Cube? No. *The adaptive technology of the Cube, which rendered it almost invulnerable.*
The Romulin fleet probably had a 100+ Dederidex over all sounds about right to Galaxy class and sovereigns
She is not evil she is a sexy beast and is drawn that way hello
I have log ever fight seen with romulans, Klingon, FEDERASION ships from movie and TNG and DS9. The warbird hull is very weak for ship of its size but Shields are very good just behind enterprise. It weapons are slow but much stronger per blast.
Weapons power/speed
175,000 tw Romulan slow
32,500 tw Klingon fast
65,000tw Federation med to fast.
i'd agree but because the warbird is not expecting to fight battleship caliber vessels like the galaxy. its more intended to take out medium to light cruisers and frigates. because that is what the majority of alpha quadrant fleets are composed of. the Galor for Cardassians, wolf 359 ships for the federation. and the Klingon Kvort.
if it was designed for heavy escorts, then they missed the Defiant... After all, two Defiants and an Akira went after two Warbirds and the captured Prometheus with confidence
You are wrong about your power theories. The Federation uses matter antimatter as a power source. The energy output from this kind of reaction would be enormous. The energy from a quantum singularity that the romulans use in the D'deridex would also be enormous. As far as power goes one does not have a significant advantage over the other. The romulans use the quantum singularity because it helps better with their cloaking devices. If the quantum singularity is damaged, the results can be catastrophic, just like a warp core breach. The one advantage that Federation ships have sticking with matter-antimatter systems is that Federation starships can be shut down to be decommissioned. When a romulan warbird D'deridex is powered up, the power source can not be shut down.
but a federation ship does need refueling. a Romulan ship does not, they can just keep going.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I don't know about how much a Federation ship needs refueling, but I do know that Federation ships go on five year missions at least. I don't think that refueling is a problem. If a quantum singularity was a better energy source/propulsion system for Federation vessels, I think the Federation would be using it. As stated before, The romulans use the quantum singularity because it is a better fit for the D'deridex cloaking device, which in Star Trek lore is one of the best and most advanced cloaking systems known.
@@johnmckenna5782 im pretty skeptical of the 5 year mission slogan, there are plenty of episodes in TOS and TNG where they stop at bases or make Rendezvous with other ships. i agree that the quantum singularity is something that results from divergent romulan tech, but i dont agree that antimatter is a superior source of energy. if you watch my wings of romulus on the d'deridex you will see what i mean.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Everytime that those ships stopped at Star Bases or make rendezvous's with other ships, they don't say that they are refueling their starships. What about Voyager that was stuck in the Delta Quadrant and it was going to take them decades to get back to the Alpha Quadrant? It is stated in Starfleet that ships are sent on at least 5 year exploratory missions. Also, I am not saying that antimatter is a superior source of energy to the quantum singularity. What I am saying is that it is not inferior to the quantum singularity. Both have their advantages and drawbacks, but matter-antimatter is a better fit for the Federation while the quantum singularity is a better fit for the D'deridex in the Romulan Star Empire. I think that we will just have to agree to disagree if you feel otherwise.
What episode did Picard or any crew member discuss the D'deridex is more powerful than a Galaxy Class?
tin man, and the defector are the two big examples
I always compared the D'deridex class and the Galaxy class to two ships in real world situation. In WWII the Japanese had the Yamato a huge battleship with huge armaments, it was an intimidating ship. It served Japan when it entered the war all the way till it was sunken before the bombs were drop. Then towards the end of the war, sometime after Peral Harbor, America made the Iowa class battleship. On paper it was faster, more agile and had better fire power but the 2 ships never actually fought each other. Both side knew of the other ship and its capabilities but no one know for sure who would come out as the victor if there was a fight between the two ships.
Being we never see a warbird in battle a single time during STTNG it would be impossible to know just how powerful this class is until it's been observed in battle. We know the warbird uses disrupter style weapons. But are the Romulans still using the vaunted plasma torpedo we see in TOS? If so, together with the cloak and disrupters, it would seem to give the warbird an advantage. But we'll never know. It was dissapointing that there never was a one on one battle between the two. Also, the Klingons do have large capitol ships in the Neg'Var class
yes the klingons have the Negh Var but that would not show up until the 2370s and even then it was comparatively rare. if your interested i've produced a more in-depth documentary on the origins of the D'deridex
We did see the Warbird unload on the Enterprise D in the episode "Tin Man" which took out 70% of its shields in one volley with it's main distributor.
ua-cam.com/video/SniM702kN7Q/v-deo.html
@@AstroTrain100 7 pulses disruptor inflicting 70% lost to the shields to be precises.
In TOS, balance of terror episode, it was a plasma bolt. Not a torpedo.
Humm... When you're right, you're right. It was never described as a torpedo in TOS. And it was clear that it was an energy based weapon.
So you mean to tell me that this class Romulan ship would defeat the Galaxy class starship Enterprise. I thought this two ships were equally matched . That being so the Victor would ultimately depend on who is the better Capt! Well that's my opinion anyway. Then again I'm a huge Enterprise D fan !
PICARD:- A FEW SHOTS AND WE ARE ASHES.... QUOTE FROM TNG.
i thought D'deridex was roughly twice the size of a galaxy class, but only barely was more powerful than a Galaxy class in terms of weaponry, but failed in shielding capacity and manuverability as well as limited firing arc capacity compared to the newer much larger phaser arrays as to what was seen with the federation, previously, with ships of the older Ambassador Class. of course even a large ship like the D'deridex had a cloak that was not easily detected giving ambush advantage. If it is a known engagement with preparation and tactical awareness a galaxy class would typically outperform the larger vessel, 1 v 1, but in ambush scenario, or sabotage/intel the Romulans would have the upper hand.
As an ambush ship I think it could probably take out almost anything of it's era 1 v 1. Sneak up on another ship decloak and unload all your weapons. I don't see how any ship of the major races in the TNG/DS9/VOY period could recover from that.
also this ship was made for all purposes at once and not seperate like the federation *science scouting troop transport etc*
It what depend on if the writers decide the galaxy-class can fire a spread of 5 to 10 photon torpedoes all the same time or if it's only fire one.
The romulan strategy is very much dependent on their cloaking technology for ambushing so that's a big factor. If it gets the upper hand right away. Striking like....a bird of prey. Unexpected and sudden.
Picard was always unhappy whenever he saw an uncloaked Warbird on his viewscreen.
Because he always had to expect more Warbirds nearby which he could _not_ see on his viewscreen.
Real easy don't know why the major debate.Warbird hands down why...First the warbird would be cloaked and choosing it's angle of attack.With weapons on full it would decloak and hammer the galaxy class ship greatly reducing shield strength from the start.Galaxy would go full evasive counter firing but the Warbirds shields are at full and would press the attack.The galaxy if she turned to fight full weapons spread would hurt the Warbirds shields but keep in mind the Warbirds power source allows it full power across the board while galaxy has to manage power.The second main barrage from the warbird would collapse the galaxy's shields unless she redirected power to facing shield but still would be endanger of shield failure and take medium to heavy damage because of no armor.During the engagement the galaxy could bring down one section of the warbirds shields but unlike the galaxy class the warbird is a warship so even though she hasn't the bulk and massive hull she is heavily armoured.From this point the warbird only has to maneuver to keep weakest shields out of the line of fire while their shots would continue to do full damage to the galaxy class until it's destruction.
Okay thinking about the fight there is one way the enterprise could win.It would be a Data saves the day maneuver and it's only if the warbird commander isn't to confident to slug it out and leans on the cloaking field.After the first strike and I'll give the enterprise having her shields up.Data could use the method he used to detect the romulan fleet that was shipping arms to Durass in the kinglon civil war.By taking both ships positions at the time of the attack speed,course changes by the enterprise and likely targets by the warbird.Data could calculate possible warbird positions and fire torpedoes In attempt to flag their position and strike the ship while their shields are down targeting the cloak to even the odds if not crippling the warbird all together.Its a long shot but it's possible.
How many disruptors did the Dare Dex have because the Galaxy class had 10 high-yield phaser Banks and Liquid Fire every angle can just sit there and put Pfizer fired every angle it's got two torpedo tubes that can Fire King Torpedoes at once and then 10 more it's got 250 torpedo how many Torpedoes does a DEX have
Every cannon source (which is supported by on screen evidence) places it's armament at 6 disruptors & 2 torpedo launchers. Occasionally I see 12 & 4 but they never provide any evidence for this and we never see it represented on screen so I call that an ass pull. They're woefully under armed.
Warbird
Att 1,183,000
Shields 1,430,000
Armor and hull 650,000
Full deff 2,080,000
Enterprise
Att 1,560,000
Shields 1,755,000
Hull 970,000(movie) or (TNG) 1,040,000
Full deff 2,730,000
It's a battleship and you wouldn't field a battleship without a cruiser squadron and a destroyer screen. Oh and a carrier. That's why the dominion trounced them.
To be fair, until they learned how to counter Phased Polaron Beams, those Jem'Hadar fighters were capable of destroying ANYTHING in the Alpha Quadrant, specially due to their swarming ammount.
of the 2 the D'deridex is more powerful then the original spec Galaxy class. the Dominion war refit Galaxy class closed the gap from a very hard fight that a galaxy is likely to lose to a hard fight that a galaxy could win 4 out of ten times.
I think you are wrong I think it's more of a glass canon than the galaxy class they ran away from the galaxy class and 3 birds of prey if you were right they wouldn't hesitate to smoke them but they probably didn't because they don't have the shield power or the ability to destroy a galaxy class and 3 birds of prey at the same time.
I think the D-Duridex is quite capable of taking down stronger ships if her captain is skillful enough, judging by Romulan tactics even if she was defeated it would be at quite a cost.
It’s under armed for a ship it s size and class.
The Dom battleship is more a Dreadnought to be honest
And they did Daryl X lock the older Klingon ships who got a weak spot the upper neck the connection points between the main head and the rest of that weak spot if I was fighting at the Dare that's not a Galaxy class if I can get them Shields down that's what I would Target the connection points or am I fire some Torpedoes to set to explode you know in that open area both fighting with the defiant and I got the shields down a flying at open area and blast it from the inside
I always felt that like the galaxy class the d'deridex is a compromised design. Its a do everything vessel just like the galaxy class.
It ought to have less firepower then it's capable of in order to keep supplies and facilities for long missions
one thing I never understood about Romulan ships powered by the singularity. is why they are not more powerful. after all its a black hole which is a never ending power source as far as I lnow!
the key benefit as you say is that its endless. as such it never needs to refuel or resupply. this means it can stay undercover in enemy territory for a potentially infinite length of time, the only limiting factor are the crew, and other components.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Poor choice of words on my part. I have an idea about intensity and duration of energy expenditure. It would of made for a better final battle at Cardasia. just because the Dominion had a bigger heavy battleship does not mean it was newer. It would of been an interesting battlr of a Romulan D'deridex vs Dominion Battleship.
I think it is slightly less powerful than a Galaxy class ship, otherwise I think the Romulans would have been more aggressive. Now they are always very cautious in one-on-one engagements. Say 90% as powerful. They likely have a lot more of them than Starfleet had Galaxy class ships though.
i'd be more tempted to say 110% of the galaxy class, dialogue leads us to believe they have an advantage, just not as much as you might think. if you Watch the 'Wings of Romulus' episode i go into detail as to what its intended role actually was.
Venom Geek Media 98 but if they had a large navy of such ships, why didn’t they try to provoke a war? Before the Borg encounter the Federation would have had little to stop the tide of auch an invasion?
because it would still be costly, and ideally they wanted to destroy the federation Klingon Alliance. otherwise they might have to fight both. and when they encounter the Galaxy class it was a surprise, the tech gap wasn't as big as they had imagined.
Venom Geek Media 98 hmm, maybe. I think it depends on how you look on the Romulans. I see them as punching above their weight by using subterfuge and spies. I still think making it too powerful disrupts the balance of power too much. On the other hand if they have much less of them it still works. It is just a matter of opinion though :)
true so the federation built only a handful of galaxy class ships. but thats as well as a mix of other classes. the federation workhorse was the excelsior, so overall the romulans probably had less, but overall more powerful than most federation ships.
Your awesome
Warbird DS9 Tech Manu
6 disruptor 175,500 TW.
2 torpedo 65,000 tw damage same as type x phaser.
Att 1,183,000
Shields 1,430,000
Armor and hull 650,000
Full deff 2,080,000
22 shots Shields down (DS9) Jem'hadar weapons 65,000TW each from fighter. 10 shot to hull dead
Att 1,183,000
Deff 2,080,000
(TNG) Weapons 7 shot take down Shields by 70% Galaxy class ship Shields are 1,755,000/10=
175,500 per disrupter bolt
We also know from TNG the Shields power of Enterprise pased of Klingon disrupter of 32,500 bolts. And we know bolt of bird of prey from DOMINION fighter. Fighter is 195,000 (Shields and hull) dead after 6 shots on average.
thing is i don't trust the ds9TM as a source. it puts the warbird at just over 1000m. i try to find consistency with what is on screen. and critically what the designers intentions are.
Good luck using the DD in Star Trek Online unless you do all beam array build.
Romulans get a hold of the Enterprise C, and build this in answer to leapfrog Federation tech; & you argue that the D'deridex isn't capable of fighting other first rates?
If this is a Derp'Deridex, then it's a colossal waste of resources, and leaves a huge gap in fleet composition that would not be filled until the more efficient Reman warbird.
The D'deridex can fight other first rates and probably beat most. but they are not its preferred target. like i say its mean't to eat mid range cruisers for breakfast.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Isn't that damning with faint praise? And true of any first rate?
@@victorroche5044 not really. like i say the d'deridex can win. but its not the fight it was built for. you have to remember the Romulans design it blind with little knowledge of what starfleet was doing. so they build it to take on multiple mid size ships. and thats most of starfleet.
Domminon battleship would win 10 times out of 10
Size and mass of a ship doesn't make a ship more powerful. It's the technology and design put into it. Take all of the mass of this ship and fill in the empty middle, the ships length, width, and height would be much less.
That's the reason I say it so much and Next Generation years and universe the Romans are going to send their most powerful trip to deal with Federation soccer Federation University NC Galaxy class hope that you don't fire projection on both of them expected a United States team Arena craft carrier battle group
It's an ambush predator.. Decloaks, attacks, recloaks..
Doesn't have the nimbleness needed for a prolonged battle at all...
Little Jem'Hadar ships run rings around it!
It has no side weapons or arcs... Forward facing weapons only..
Disruptor beam on nose, 8 forward cannon on wings, fore and aft torpedoes - that's it...
Quite poor vs multiple ships at once..
As an all round warship I would rate it lower than a Ferengi Marauder or Klingon K'Vort
A good pilot in a Galaxy class would own the D'deridex - just get behind it and it needs to cloak or die...
The gap in the middle has an invisible singularity floating in it, so not a vulnerable point.. :)
Looks great, but poor internal design...
More powerful than a hamster!
IN STARTREK LEGACY FOUR D DERIDEX CLASS ON LEVEL EASY CAN T TEKE DOWN BORG CUBR
Someone should do a federation version of the d deridex