Were We Wrong About Aikido?
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- Опубліковано 29 лис 2024
- I challenged Aikido practitioners to prove that their martial art works. The videos I received made me reconsider my previous opinion.
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Welcome to the Martial Arts Journey UA-cam channel!
My name is Rokas. I'm a Lithuanian guy who trained Aikido for 14 years, 7 of them running a professional Aikido Dojo until eventually I realized that Aikido does not live up to what it promises.
Lead by this realization I decided to make a daring step to close my Aikido Dojo and move to Portland, Oregon for six months to start training MMA at the famous Straight Blast Gym Headquarters under head coach Matt Thornton.
After six months intensive training I had my first amateur MMA fight after which I moved back to Lithuania. During all of this time I am documenting my experience through my UA-cam channel called "Martial Arts Journey".
Now I am slowly setting up plans to continue training MMA under quality guidance and getting ready for my next MMA fight as I further document and share my journey and discoveries.
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If you want to support my journey, you can make a donation to my PayPal at info@rokasleo.com
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Check the video "Aikido vs MMA" which started this whole Martial Arts Journey:
► • Aikido vs MMA - REAL ...
#Aikido #MartialArts #MartialArtsJourney
Correction: "Real Aikido" is Serbian, not Czech. I always have to mess something up with geography 😑
Links to videos featured:
1) CCTV Aikido kotegaeshi: ua-cam.com/video/-FLC0sWiobE/v-deo.html
2) "Real Aikido" demonstration: ua-cam.com/video/Y3YqcGhZYkA/v-deo.html
3) Dan The Wolman's Aikido: ua-cam.com/video/UnoMMNa7kkg/v-deo.html
4) Remy's footage (at end of the video): ua-cam.com/video/kVTCOwCHbxI/v-deo.html
5) Lenny Sly's video: ua-cam.com/video/8CIYdnp7l1w/v-deo.html
6) Aikido vs Wrestler: ua-cam.com/video/PLP_DInpPHE/v-deo.html
That Catch Jitsu is much more on track but get serious. Watch the feeder. That is just a uke who is feeding one of 6-8 predetermined attacks. That drill is dead as a door nail. The uke doesn’t attempt to disrupt the defender’s defense in any way and is making ZERO attempt to stay on their feet, usually just falling over limp. An actual attacker will disengage and reattempt a different attack, they’ll disengage and throw strikes, they’ll do totally crazy things like tackle you and fight to stay standing.
What does it look like when its alive? It looks like Sambo. If there’s no jackets, it looks like Greco-Roman with Thai boxing. Two way drill, 100% live, with light punches and knees. Win the drill by ending up on top, double unders with a lift, or add headgear if you want to get serious. There, I fixed it.
@El Lorenzo No, there’s lots of wrong, mainly in training against a compliant partner. You can’t learn the defend yourself against a compliant attacker. You need to both spar and roll, and that’s that.
You need to get in a gym and let someone try to beat you up while you fight back, not go jogging. You’re describing the “strengthening against heavy waves” step of the dry land swimming academy, it’s a waste of your time. Just jump in the pool, it’s fun!
what about experience 🤔 fighters that want to get away from competition? I will still train in Aikido of the teacher believe in the do no hard philosophy because how dangerous my attitude gets . This is point 1.
Heres how to understand aikido and how it *would* work if understood and applied properly.
1. Demystify it in your mind. Aikido is any other grappling art. An aikido wristslock is the same as a bjj or wrestling arm lock. Aikido shouldnt need to magically fling some guy 10 feet to be considered to "work". Practitioners need to understand this just like spectators.
2. Aikido isnt a "soft" or peaceful art.its an art of harmony. But Its violent like any other art.
Whats "Harmony"?
I dont wanna fight. You do. You punch at me. Wrist lock, toss. You get a little hurt. You want to fight me less now.
Rinse. Repeat. Till you give up. Now you dont wanna fight. I never did.
Harmony.
3. Aikido was made for experienced students to train advanced techniques in a "vacuum".
To learn aikido in its early days you needed 10 years experience in both a striking and grappling art. The founder preferred students who boxed or wrestled. Some of his first and most successful students were pro boxers.
He wanted this, so youd know how to strike and grapple and deal with *actual resistance* so he didnt have to teach it.
Aikido is about manipulating balance, center of gravity, posture, spatial awareness and psychology to get a desired result.
Advanced shit thats hard to practice properly under resistance. So they didnt. They attacked slow but with commitment, with outstretched arms and big steps and such.
This made it easy to learn the principles effectively and safely. Safety was a big thing. Thats why they would jump and roll with throws. Wrist breaks =less training time.
Then, if they needed their aikido in the real world, theyd shrink up the movements to be small and tight. And do them faster and with more force. Which they were able to quickly adjust and do because they have *10 years of experience in full contact fighting*.
Without that experience, aikido is basically useless. Youll never learn to fight with it. Even if you learn what its supposed to teach you, the advanced shit.
Its useless to you because youve no understanding of the basics intermediate or the high level shit. You wont be able to survive long enough to *try* to use the fancy shit.
4. Aikido doesnt have sparring cuz its too dangerous.
Aikido focuses on shoulder, finger and wrist locks, and really hard, nasty throws. Stuff where theres not really an opportunity to tap out, and where resisting and not "flying thru the air" just means youre now standing upright with a broken wrist or elbow.
Tapping out is a new invention. I it started with Judo. Judo was made as a safer to practice alternative to jujutsu where techniques couldnt be done in sparring because theyd result in broken bones.
Judo used slightly different variations to allow for safe practice, which helped develop higher levels of skill.
Aikido, being based off jujutsu styles, didnt have techniques that allowed for tapping.
5. A good aikidoka will punch the hell outta you.
By good i mean one that actually knew how to fight before starting aikido.
Aikido teaches you how to move very well. And that footwork lends itself to hitting hard. It may not teach you how to hit directly, but if youve got enough experience, you can out 2 and 2 together and whack somebody. And why wouldnt you? I mean
6. Training in aikudo doesnt stop you from using other stuff you already know.
Its not like your sworn to the spirit of aikido and can only use aikido to defend yourself, even if it means dying.
An aikidoka can arm drag you. They can also kick you in the balls.
Thats about all ive got for you. Thanks.
The fact that you are open to changing your mind to facts is so refreshing.
There's more at play here than just learning more about martial arts. Thank you.
🙏🙏
This video is gold not just for Aikido, but for analyzing any martial art in general. Thank you, Rokas!
Also, I foresee a time when Rokas will start his own style of Aikido with the proper training methodology to apply Aikido techniques effectively.
This would be similar to what Chuck Norris did with American Tang Soo Do, or how Bruce Lee created Jeet Kune Do.
@@georgefoley9793 So basically, he would teach MMA.
@@na-ky8ou Not necessarily; more like proper Aikijitsu, rather than water downed Aikido.
@@georgefoley9793 So in both cases, he wouldn't be teaching aïkido?
@@na-ky8ou Well, not the Aikido we know today. You see, Aikido used to be Aikijitsu in the past, but this martial art became pacified, when the emphasis on "jitsu" (practice application with the intent to gravely injure - time of the Samurai) was switched to "do" (a more philosophical approach, which focused on defence, but with sensitivity of the opponent's wellbeing). Essentially, this transition made Aikido much less effective. Making Aikido functional, would bring it back to its effective past.
I don’t remember exactly the video, but Ramsey Dewey shared an anecdote a while back in which one of his students successfully used an aikido throw and stated that “aikido only works if you already know how to fight”. I think he hit the nail on the head there. Until you become comfortable with live resistance, you will not be able to make any technique work in an environment where live resistance is present.
It is like a former Aikidoka sensei of mine once said.
"Think of martial arts like a meal, and think of Aikido like a dessert.".
You can have plenty of sparring experience, and still be unable to apply certain things you have learned. The truth is, you need a combination. You need complete mastery of these techs before sparring... and you then need to learn to apply them in pressured sparring. Often you have to keep going back and forth between these two... until you eventually can execute flawlessly in a sparring / combat situation.
Furthermore... if you are not really aware of how your opponents arts actually work... you will be at a huge disadvantage. Most ancients would have had such knowledge, and experience. It doesnt mean you have to use their arts methods... but that you should at very least know them, and be able to read them.
Yep Aikido was created by a tired warrior who developted a more gentle and philosophical approach to martial arts.
@@johndough8115 This is a fallacy to common in traditional martial arts. You will never gain true mastery of a technique UNTIL you have also trained it with live pressure testing ultimately ending up with sparring.
It's simply not possible otherwise.
Kungfu has this delusion also that's why so much of it ends up looking so unpractical.
When you focus on the why on every movement and kata/taolu you ended losing the how of actual application.
Eventually successive generations no longer have knowledge of the "how" and so Kata, which was once a supplimentary train aid meant to work along side live practice becomes all that's left.
And then it all becomes fancy dancing.
But this is not a problem of Aikido. It is a problem holds for all forms.
You can even go to a boxing gym that only goes to very light sparring because they don't want paying customers to get hurt and you won't learn to fight.
Aikido possibly stands out because it is a very advanced form leading to two problems.
First most of it techniques a incredibly hard to pull of against a resisting opponent. Not only the techniques have to be trained to perfection but also the combat instinct of the practitioner has to be highly developed.
Second it does not teach any fighting basics, but only those highly evolved techniques.
Sadly those two points combined make Aikido a really bad choice for anybody who wants to learn how to fight or to defend itself. It still might be really good if you already know to fight and just want a more sophisticated and less violent way of dealing with an aggressor. If you are the superior fighter Aikido seems a great way to prove it without having to injure your opponent.
I thought the question you raised at the end of the video re: all featured practitioners having previous experience working as bouncers was actually really important - their jobs have the closest mandate to what I feel Morihei Ueshiba intended with Aikido. Their mandate is not to necessarily defeat/destroy their opponents, but to neutralize them and remove them from the conflict. You don't need to _hurt_ them, you just need to incapacitate them long enough to throw them out.
I found this video off a binge of other martial arts UA-camrs like Jesse Enkamp, whose own research into Karate dug up a lot of unexpected explanations for some of the perceived gaps in Karate's effectiveness. My impression with Aikido and its relation to Judo/Jiu-jitsu is that an important aspect of a broader sense of fighting training got misrepresented over the years as the fighting system itself. If we were to use, say, Western Boxing as an example, it would be like training specifically in the intricacies of counterpunching, whilst skipping over the basic strikes and defence against an active opponent.
Unfortunately not trying to hurt your opponent is going to end in disaster - why? If a persson attacks you they want to do some damage and see you as easy meat. So not going nuts at attacker may get you hurt or killed. To keep them away you have to hurt them so they can think twice this guy is not worth it. If you think otherwise you have not been in a street fight.
Please recall that a lot of the first aikido students ever were high level judoka. Which will explain why a lot of these seemingly impractical techniques got passed down. It seems that the students were using their own experience to fill in the gaps in the technique.
Yeah, I remember hearing that Aikido was created with the idea that you already knew how to fight before learning the art
I think original aikido was mostly kata for already high level martial artists, that then could be used in bunkai during actual fighting.
But just like karate kata, the bunkai is not always is what the kata suggests. In fact, the same aikido technique could be broken down differently by a wrestler and a striker.
Kata is just a form to pass knowledge without written instructions, but it is like a cryptogram, you need to have the right key to decipher it.
Exactly this poster mayorly ignores comments but this is the truth. Aikido was originally intended for proved martial artists who wanted a less aggressive more philosophical method.
@@ThePlagueWarden You are right it was made by an exsoldier for other fighters and warriors looking for a more philosophical way for martial arts.
A lot of aikido practitioners I encountered in Japan when I was doing my Asian studies masters were high level judo of jujutsu practitioners, the vibe I got was that aikido was a philosophy and conflict management system more than a martial art, ie they use it to defuse a situation as opposed to actually fighting. Or they would use it as the equivalent of karate’s soft training.
O'senseï just taught aïkido to students who already had a black belt in an other art, this sums up what is the purpose of aïkido, a complementary art for experimented fighters
But thats not the current aikido branding though.
@@JJ-zr6fu true, that's why I think more aïkido practitioners should cross train, but I also think that fighters from other martial arts should try aïkido because it has useful tools
@@Diego-hm1wd How is it useful? After decades of practicing other martial arts they learn a techniques that is useful against smaller and inexperience opponent. Look at all the videos shown the guys are noticeably bigger than their opponents. The bouncer using the wrist lock is not only bigger but his buddy is doing most the work of controlling the guy.
@@JJ-zr6fu Well, senseis need rice, too. There are not that many top notch fighters seeking spirituality in any given surroundings.
@@JJ-zr6fu If you just want to DESTROY someone, then practice something else.
even though your just a small, channel. but Rokas, believe me everyone in the martial arts community must know about this. you just discover something so briliant. from time to time, your story amazed me and i'm looking forward to your next video
Great video. I was a Bouncer for a NYC night Club. I was the shortest guy in our crew (5’9”). I’m sure my Coworkers we questioning the judgement of my employer for hiring me :). It was my first Bouncer gig. Prior to that my only experience was pressure testing my Martial Arts on the streets of Brooklyn. Whatever I learned as a kid, I took it to the streets. Then when I trained Wing Chun, my Sifu was all about pressure testing. The point being all the arts I trained in were pressure tested. And they all served me well as a Bouncer.
It's like Aikido dropped 2 of the 3 natural steps to learn and implement a technique. First is doing what Aikido does: learning the move on no opponent and an unresisting opponent. The second is to drill with different levels of liveness (from a simple active resistance to high resistance, like a sparring drill). The third is to implement it in live sparring.
What are the natural steps sorry
Learning with no important
Learning with different moves on no opponent
Then implement live sparring
Is that right?
@@slax4884 1. Learning the technique. Generally done on a completely passive or even helpful opponent or done in the air (depending on whether it's a grappling or striking).
2. Drilling the move. Generally on a resisting opponent, but with restrictions. Can be anything from passive resistance to sparring drills where you are live sparring but you set up specific situations to use that move.
3. Pulling it off spontaneously in live sparring. This is where you will truly learn the move and know you can use it in combat, whether that's self defense or in a combat sport.
From what I've seen in videos and from "traditional" styles, they mostly perform step 1, with some of the lesser variants of step 2.
@@waaagh3203 Well, Shodokan Aikido and Tomiki Aikido both not only do all 3 steps but have actual comps where Aikidoka "fight" and resist each other.
Still aren't particularly great systems in the gamut of effective (in the sense of developing practical fighting skills) martial arts though. I appreciate what you are getting at, but in this case your assessment is a wee bit reductive.
I can't speak to Leonavicius's practice (though I can draw an informed guess), but in my practice, we term these levels kihon waza, jiyu waza, and randori. An aversion to egoistic prizefighting is not an aversion to effective martial training.
I have had a similar experience with Capoeira. I used to train Capoeira for a year and a half, thinking that I could use it in actual fighting. After I signed up in an MMA gym, I realized I was completely wrong. But after 2 years of training, I am sometimes able to pull some capoeira kicks off during sparring, such as the mea lua de compasso and the escopado. But first I had to learn at least the basics of striking, distance, feints, defense etc.
MMA is not actually fighting in a sense of self defence its consensual fighting, street fights have no rules. So i have the mind set all martial arts cannot help in a street fight. Why? How are you going to deal with the fear? I mean the fear and horror of being attacked? How are you going to deal with the adrenaline dump and the tunnel vision? How are you going to deal with the fight or flight response? How are you going to deal with shock of being hit? What about 2 or 3 or 4 guys and their girfriends attacking you how are doing to deal with that. What about he shock of weapons used on you - a knife, sword, a baseball bat, knuckle dusters with spikes on them? You may answer MMA teaches you that, no it does not . MMA has rules it has a ref, it has medical staff and other people to jump in if you get hurt and other guy still pounds on you still when you are cold. None are there on a street fight. i do not care if what MA does not work, i do it because i enjoy it, and if it the odd throw or punch works if i get attacked then great stuff. Best bet is not to be there in the first place, or be aware of you surroudings at all times.
@@Mulberry2000 i agree, but mma type training is the closet we got for training to those situations. And I'm sure that competing in front of a live audience also gives you a terrible adrenaline dump. I mean, what else can you do? Go out at midnight and get in people's faces for practice?
@@Mulberry2000 there's a guy on youtube that talks about exactly this and tries replicate it is a best as possible and even mentions things like yelling for a buddy etc. it's interesting to watch what people fall back on once they're in these situations
@@Cringe.Archives No, it's not the closest to a Real Fight. It's Cage Fighting.
I recall when first learning about Aikido that I read a book which described “aiki” as the highest level of the Japanese martial arts. One would first learn jujitsu or other battlefield systems, then learn aiki.
Also, wasn’t O’Sensei a very skilled and experienced martial artist before formulating Aikido?
I think a big part of the issue is that Aikido is being practiced by people who don’t have a basis in actual fighting. However, when an actual fighter learns or knows aikido, he’s able to incorporate some of it because he can sense when in the chaos of a fight it can be applied. Someone without that sense of chaos won’t know where it can be applied.
FYI, I’d studied Japanese Jujitsu with a friend for only a few months when he told me he had been jumped by two guys. One guy tried to grab his bag. My friend did a outer wrist lock technique and heard his attacker’s wrist tear. Both of them left. So there’s a very common aikido technique used by a very bee student, albeit against someone who was likely not skilled either.
Anyway, great content as usual. Keep it going!
Correct. The pre-war aikido students had all mastered previous martial arts. So, their aikido was very functional. That was when aikido was considered a finishing school for other martial arts. The aikidoists in the video who performed aikido against other martial arts either had extensive martial arts training or were bouncers.
Some good insight there but this is a wee bugbear of mine: Was it "Japanese Jujitsu", as in bonafide Koryu? Or was it Western JJ? Western systems have adopted the moniker of being "traditional" or "Japanese" for marketing purposes (like the WJJF) but in reality have no connection to Japan or traditional Japanese martial arts.
It doesn't mean they aren't worth learning but in this day and age where cultural appropriation is very much frowned upon, some of those "traditional" JJ systems in the West are about as Japanese as Mount Rushmore.
It's a really good point. We know that Ueshiba learned sumo, Jiu-Jitsu etc and fought in a war. I made a video about this argument on my channel. Please check it out and let me know what you think 🙏🏾
Hallelujah, truth is spoken. Exactly!!!
What I like about you is that you're open to new information Rokas. Very refreshing
Training with Remy Sensei was both with resistance and not. And at the same time he made us have as much sensitivity as possible, keeping center while moving during stress. And all attacks was striking combos, and realistic speed.
What a cool guy :)
I like your honesty and the original way you answer the question "does it work"!
No you weren’t wrong. Just like with WC. You found out 10-20% of WC schools are in the process of going through pressure testing. That means by and large WC isn’t doing that well concerning realist contexts. You found two fighters who apply WC somewhat successfully in the ring or cage/octagon. That means it’s generally not successful for application. At this moment of its existence as a martial arts.
Also in these videos the guys using aikido are noticeably larger than their opponents. When you are significantly bigger than someone a lot of useless techniques work.
In my view, this is you most sensible and well-founded take on Aikido. All points are valid and, most importantly, you leave the door open for further analysis and discussion. Much more mature than your previous approach. Well done.
I think your fitness boxing footage nailed it. Base on how Aikido was founded, Aikido actually is "fitness jiu jitsu".
If anything, it's the opposite. It's ju-jitsu without the fitness. It's the study of abstract principles. In a way, it's similar to education vs work experience. I've heard someone say "In physics classes I've studied the behaviour of bodies in absence of friction. Now in my job everything is about friction". (Think of the car industry). While maybe not entirely accurate (it's not that physics in college is always w/o friction), it's quite true. When you study something you want somehow to abstract from reality, to better understand the principles. In a way, Aikido is the study of martial arts "without friction". Nothing wrong about it, per se.
If you practice any martial art with the purpose of engaging in any form of combat (w or w/o rules), fitness can't be neglected, as sparring. Actually, you're not going anywhere if you're out of breath after 10s, even if you downloaded all the knowledge of the masters like Neo in the Matrix. OTOH, if the purpose is seeking knowledge per se, fitness is almost irrelevant (or, all you need is to be able to practice safely, of course).
In short, you'll never see weight lifting in Aikido classes, especially outside Japan. In the West we have the myth of "effortlessly throwing people around, with perfectly applied skills" regarding eastern martial arts, but they don't go that far. Most Aikido black belts there are actually quite fit. Effective use of strength doesn't mean you don't need to get strong: that's a western misconception. Nobody in Japan will tell you: "you learn to execute Kote-gaeshi perfectly so that you can be lazy and skip the gym".
@@MrSamurai137 what's your point?
@@MrSamurai137 these guys could fight but they choose not to teach how to fight
One of your best videos so far!
I have little experience with TaeKwonDo and learned to enjoy kicking since my legs are more active than my arms. Anyway, one thing I keep remembering is how Bruce Lee learned his skills. He basically went to many different schools and one important thing he always said was to select the techniques that work best for you.
Yup. I started in TKD. My instructor ended up forming his own school which was a freestyle martial art maintaining Korean roots which cut out the unnecessary bits and adapted with other styles. Also, when I started studying Tai Chi for relaxation, I quickly found Tai Chi improved my training. I started branching out more. If it's not pressure tested, it's only pure theory.
thats basically mma
To me Aikido enhances everything. I learned judo then wrestling, boxing, football, baseball, golf, basketball and even chess lol. Aikido’s mindset and blending makes everything else easier. If you’re a true artist you study and respect other arts, they all have special attributes. Thank you for helping all artist to explore other arts and grow. If you’re not growing your dying.
I totally agree. I practiced karate when I was a kid and a teenager, I had a few fights when I was not practicing it and I won them. But when I practiced Aikido a few years later, I never felt as confident and with the right spirit and mindset, it also made me more agile. And it enhanced what I already knew about karate.
I practice aikido for 2 to 3 years, I find the falls in golf much easier on my body.
@@seanmann863 lol 😂 I meant centering lol 😂
But that does leave a question,can Aikido be consider its own martial art then or something else perhaps a name like supplementary art would be a good description.
You nailed it right here- i try and discourage people from training in Aikido until they do something more applied. Karate, Judo, BJJ, Grappling, Thai, etc - what they learn in class will enhance all of that by improving sensitivity and movement change drilling, free flow and especially turning movements and falling (sh*t loads of falling lol). When you look for the benefits in all the arts, you grow as an artist. 👍
I find it hilarious we’re having this discussion.
Judo founder Jigoro Kano encouraged his Judo students to cross train under Ueshiba and learn Aikido to complement their Judo. And I’d argue, Judo can be considered what you refer to as a “combat sport.” Kano literally saw the value in combining the two arts, the two distances each art offers, the movement, balance breaking, and body turning.
Here we are over 100 years later still trying to figure this whole discussion out.
Yeah, you're right, Jigoro Kano did send some of his top guys to train under Morihei Ueshiba. I think a lot of people get the whole intention of Aikido wrong. That's why this discussion is still going on. I made a video about this on my channel. Please check it out and let me know what you think 🙏🏾
Excited for your research into Shodokan Aikido. I think this will answer a lot of questions. Looking forward to those videos.
My Ooji(Great-Uncle) has practiced under the "Aiki" umbrella for over five decades. Technically, he is a GM, although he doesn't teach, so there is no attachment to the title ranking or whatever. Either way, I will do my best to share my thoughts on the subject.
I still remember when he came to visit for the first time. I was in kindergarten, and had already developed an obsession with martial arts, due to a recent Bruce Lee Matinee Marathon at the local dollar theater. Now, keep in mind, I was young and completely ignorant to any and all distinctions between the different martial arts systems, so I was extremely excited to meet my Japanese Great-Uncle, and perhaps learn some Aikido, because of Bruce Lee, whom you may know is Chinese and doesn't practice Aikido. All of this excitement was dropped to the floor, and left to wither and die when I asked him to teach me to fight. His response was boisterous laughter. A lot of his later messages communicated to me went over my head...partially, because he barely speaks English, and my Japanese wouldn't get me further than a bathroom in the airport. Yet, my mom and ObaOba translated for us, so my youth and ignorance were greater contributors than the language barrier.
His overall message? Aikido is not fighting. It is not for combat. It is not martial, nor is it for sport. A Nintendo cartridge "CAN" fit in a toaster, but you sure as shit aren't going to see any toast pop up. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or ignorant. Aikido is for the self. Not "self-defense" or any other compounded term. Just "Self."
Even bruce lee respect the predesesor,why are you compare,the martial art for
I think that you're great uncle hit the nail on the head. I've made an Aikido video about this very concept on channel. Please check it out and let me know what you think 🙏🏾
lol did he actually use the nintendo cartridge metaphor. that's awesome
From my understanding, it seems to be a means of exploring unique ways of moving your body around an attacker. Coming from that direction, I see it falling in line with Parkour. It introduces a new way to perceive and manage the push and pull of gravity and other forces on your body.
Thank you 🙏 You finally get it! It is quite honorable of you though to admit it after realization.
Kudos Rokas! It takes a lot of courage and intelligence to be so open to admitting mistakes! Your comments on methodology and the need for training multiple arts are also spot on!
I did respond to one of your earlier vids, and I stated that in my previous club we trained as realistically as we could (based on a students level). With your latest video I have just realised that both myself and the lead instructor are experienced in multiple other Martialed Arts (Judo, karate, Muay Thai, Jujitsu) and had both had experience as bouncers. I will add I grew up in a fairly violent place, therefore I got a lot of fighting experience. I now realise we used to take a slow approach with most of the younger/inexperienced students because unconsciously we knew the couldn't yet deal with active resistance.
You are doing excellent research, hopefully this can bring an evolution to the art......or at least to the community. Realistic expectations and critical thinking needs to be applied.
Lenny Sly is another great example of isolating Aikido's practical applications. Great vid, thank you!
Dude the guy is jacked up, and his opponents are always smaller. Duh
Doesn't matter. He is very good about distinguishing between what works and doesn't work against a resistant opponent.
The reason Aikido works for bouncers and the reason it's taught to Tokyo police is the set of techniques around joint locks and pins are absolutely phenomenal for stopping and neutralizing an untrained rowdy person without causing unnecessary harm or injury. You can lock somebody up and set them on the ground, and if you're already in a position of authority, they usually give up at that point. It's a study in force-lines and biomechanics, projecting strength in a state of calm and enforcing a state of chill. It's never going to be useful against trained strikers or grapplers - if you find yourself in that situation, get backup, run away, or use combative techniques from a more punchy martial art that you've also hopefully learned. It's not a swiss army knife, it's a very specific tool that works extremely well for the proper use case.
Rokas, have you ever looked into or made a video on Daito-ryu Aiki-Jujitsu? Seeing as Aikido is a descendant of that art, it might be of interest to you and I'd love to see what you think of it in relation to Aikido and other arts.
I'm pretty sure a former full time Aikido instructor has heard of Daito-ryu lol.
I have attended DR seminars a couple of times, having been an Aikido practioner at the time. For the life of me I've no idea why some Aikido practitioners beatify DR. It's fundamentally more similar to Aikido than different. It has some extra movements and concepts, but it's very close to Aikido. If you drew a Venn diagram of DR and Aikido, very little would be left out of the union.
Didn't the guy who founded Aikido only accept people who were good at fighting to begin with?
It's almost as tho he wasn't presenting them with a full system, retraining them from scratch, but rather just teaching them some additional techniques that a trained fighter might be able to use under the right circumstances,
But that would be crazy
Chadi an ex aikido guy going judo fid a documentary on that yes. I think the founder was kind of "sick of fighting" because he fought all his life
Look him up on youtube
@@joaodelgado6118 oh boy, where do I even start?
Well first off what you said regarding Aikido is assuming that you can actually use those techniques against a resisting opponent and while sure you could take someone who looks like they're about to fight by surprise with an aikido pain compliance move, and it may even work, but that is legally speaking, in most places, considered assault even if it doesn't do much damage (unless you can prove that you had sufficient reason to preemptively attack them in which case it really doesn't matter whether you used aikido or just punched them in the face),
If however you want to avoid assault charges you have to wait till the other guy makes the first move and make sure that you can prove he did, at which point unless you can fight you plain and simple won't be able to apply aikido techniques, if you want to see what happens when you try please refer to Rokases original MMA vs Aikido video, besides Aikido was never intended to be used by people who have no prior fighting experience and as such doesn't work particularly well unless you're a trained fighter to begin with, it is not, and has never been, a stand-alone martial art,
Second no they wouldn't, it's surprisingly easy to hold back if you actually know how to fight and are fighting a less skilled opponent,
Holding back aside there are also plenty of limb control moves and chokes in MMA that are far safer to use against a resisting opponent than some of what Aikido teaches to use which if the other guy doesn't know how to break-fall could do some serious damage if done over concrete, and choking someone out, something that MMA fighters can do but Aikidokas aren't trained to do, is pretty much safest way to incapacitate someone without particularly harming them,
And even if they chose to just beat the shit out of the other guy given they didn't throw the first punch and they can prove it, which with video cameras everywhere nowadays is pretty easy, in most places you can just claim self-defense and you'll be fine,
Of course, the legal aspect may vary depending on where you live so the MMA thing may very well be true where you live, I'm assuming that you've consulted a lawyer regarding this and aren't just making random assumptions, but generally speaking, in most places, you are allowed to use violence to defend yourself in case you're being assaulted so whether you use Aikido or MMA really shouldn't matter from a legal perspective, one, however, better trains you for violent altercations,
P.S. I've got no clue where you live but over here at least if someone picks a fight with you knocking them out or slamming them on the ground are perfectly valid responses from a legal perspective, if I were you I'd consult a lawyer as to what is considered fine and what is considered excessive force regarding self-defense because I kind of doubt that the laws are as strict where you live as you think they are
@@joaodelgado6118 OK I'm starting to think that you're just a troll but in case you're not I guess I'll address your misconceptions
1. " obviously you need to know how to fight to use aikido to control someone"
Good you understand that, but the whole point of my original post was that Aikido does not even attempt to do that and that you have to learn that somewhere else, I might have have misinterpreted your original reply as I thought you were disagreeing with that statement
2. "mma techniques to control people (bjj and judo"
Judo techniques are actually fairly minimally present in MMA, rather it's stand up grappling is more Wrestling inspired but they are not just flat out BJJ, Judo or Grappling techniques anymore, maybe they were 20 years ago but these days they're more of their own thing
3. "bjj and judo - variants of Japanese jiujitsu just like aikido ;)"
So I'm assuming that you've only done Aikido from the martial arts listed?
How should I put this so that you understand, let's use food as an example - both country fried chicken and rotten raw chicken soaked in dog piss are variants of chicken but are two completely different things,
Similarly even if they all are derivatives of JJJ (not variants) they are entirely different things far removed from the original and each other, as someone who's done several of them I can guarantee to you that they are very different martial arts and that there is no point in comparing them to Jiu Jitsu anymore because they are their own things by now with years of RnD that have diverged too far away from JJJ and each other to be considered similar enough to be variants
4. "if you are going to do some judo throw or punch him in the face you can get arrested"
Dude, I already covered this last time, but to summarize, no not in most of the world, not if it's self defense anyway, I don't know where you live but the odds are that it's the same where you live that it can in fact be considered justifiable force if you were assaulted, heck just flat out pulling a gun on them and shooting your whole mag in to their chest is considered just fine some places in America let alone just beating them up
5. "but if you are going to do some judo throw"
And in case you weren't paying attention so far let me repeat - judo throws are not a move common in MMA and even if they were they would be fully legal most places as long as the other guy was the one attacking you,
Also even if it wasn't you do realize that Aikido has a f*ck ton of throws in it too, and that MMA has limb control that isn't throws, right?
6. "if the guy who was annoying you or your family"
... "the guy who was annoying you"
... "annoying you"
Did you just say that you pick fights with people for just annoying you? I hope that was an auto correct error and you meant assaulting because attacking people for just being annoying is a crime regardless of if you use nothing but mostly harmless aikido pain compliance moves or not
7. "carrying a gun it's a much better solution for these cases..."
So let me get this straight, according to you punches are too dangerous but straight up shooting people is just fine?
And now if you don't mind I'll ask you a few questions:
1) It's clear that you have never done MMA and only have a vague idea of what it is, given this being the case what makes you feel qualified to discuss it?
2) Since you feel so confident that punching someone who is assaulting you in the face will be considered excessive force who/what is your source? Did you actually consult a lawyer or look up the laws regarding self defense in your area or did you just hear it somewhere and neglect to verify the information?
3) Given your confidence that you'll be able to use Aikido in a violent altercation despite the fact that Aikido doesn't pressure test its techniques or do any proper sparing what is your source of confidence that you will even be able to apply those techniques?
4) And just for funs sake what exactly is your martial arts background? I mean we know you don't do MMA and that you probably do Aikido but do you do anything else, if so for how long?
@@joaodelgado6118 You are aware that the staple of Aikido, the wrist lock, is completely legal in both BJJ and MMA, right? How come MMA athletes don't train Aikido and win their matches by wristlock?
It's because in an actual melee, they are pretty awkward and low percentage to do. As you say, BJJ and Judo have roots in traditional Japanese martial arts, and yet techniques from both Judo and BJJ are regularly incorporated in to MMA. The reason Aikido techniques aren't is because they are low percentage, and don't work particularly well when someone is punching you or trying to take you down.
I really understand as an Aikido practitioner both your doubts and how are you using the critical approach to it. Thank you Rokas
This is the best analysis so far. I am a Goju Ryu practitioner since 1989. In 1992 I notice that I was stuck. So, without leaving Goju, I start to practice other arts. In a few years I notice what you just describe. Awesome Journey.
Cant wait to see the krav maga and bujinkan responses 💜
Hi 🙋♂️ Rokas, with regards to the above comment please also investigate the Genbukan school of Ninjutsu. I hear it’s another prominent Ninpo school. I ask because I fear we may have another group of charlatans on our hands.
@@SJ-gv1yj bujinkan, genbukan, akban, budoryu... There are actually many ninjutsu asociatiins out there... Akban is scary good... They do spar alot... If you didnt see the ninja suits you would think they are doing some profesional combat sport of some sort
Krav is bullshit
@@Therizinosaurus i dont know and i dont care, i just wanna see if he got cool videos about it
I feel like there's a huge misconception about Krav Maga. Krav Maga was founded by a champion boxer/olympian wrestler who went on to do alot of street fighting and found out that groin kicks and eye gouging and hammer fists to the back of the head were really effective. So yeah it was boxing and wrestling but really dirty. As to whether or not that's what's still being taught or where I'm not sure. But clearly boxing and wrestling without rules is only going to be that much more effective than with.
By far, this is the best video you've done on this (somewhat broad) subject yet.
As an ex aikidoka(now I'm nak Muay) I have seen aikido effectively used as advertised three times. Twice by doormen against agressors, once against an agressive doorman. The trick with aikido is: you start the beautiful flowing move, but it is not your fault if a door, wall, table, fist or floor puts a sudden end to that move. If you get my drift. First you dodge/ avoid the fight, if unsuccessful you try to tire your opponent to make them stop if that is unsuccessful you bring pain to the offender( all flowy moves can become clamps, holds, bars, locks and breaks in an instant). Still not enough?,you mame the perp. And if all of this is not enough you end them! The reason they train safe is to help muscle memory and stay healthy. Sparring can be very fierce and especially the wrist locks, arm twists and throws can easily damage someone permanently( that's why I'd rather fight Muay Thai now) if done to fast(as in real live situation.)you don't want this when training.
You've got that right. Ikkyo (1st technique) can easily end up with the attacker's face planted in the ground and a torn rotator cuff. Nikkyo can (even accidentally) tear wrist tendons. Shihonage has too many ways to hurt someone: elbow, shoulder, and spine.
@@peterbonucci9661 When I teach junior students shiho-nage, I always get to the point where I'm under their elbow, stop, and then tell them that continuing the turn will bring the target down with no injuries will pulling the arm straight down over their shoulder will break the elbow. I then pull their arm very slowly into the elbow break path until they can just baaarely feel that in their elbow. I mostly teach them this so that they know not to do it to other students, but hey, if they need it for a real-life situation, they know.
@@FreedomIII My teacher did the same thing. We always practiced the safe takedown.
@@peterbonucci9661 It's probably good that you and I both have the safe take-down in the muscle memory and the permanent damage take-down in the conscious memory.
That's the question! It's not a question of if Aikido works; it's a question of whether it's being trained in a way that leads to it working!
Going to quote you in my next Aikido video 👍🏾
Awesome 👊
My feeling in general is that a technique that works... is a technique that works.
A lot of examples of beautiful Aikido takedowns just leave me saying "Cool... that worked... but you just discovered osoto-gari from Judo."
😄
@@MartialArtsJourney isn't akido just judo With a different aesthetic?
Yes, and a punch is a punch. There are not so many ways to punch somebody's face. Still there are hundreds of differents martial arts that insist in teaching you how to punch somebody's face. The thing is that we like more the idea of punching as a part of something bigger that the punching itself.
@@tyronechillifoot5573 No. I am a Judoka. The throws are entirely different. Although you may say that many Judo throws are variants of what would be called in Aikido, irimi nage and koshi nage. :)
Paradoxically, I find Aikidokas who try Judo, to be much stiffer than the average beginner.
Of course Judo and Aikido is just a different subset of historical Jujutsu while incorporating some other wrestling martial arts. Nobody claimed them to be magical. They are joint locks and throws taught by many other martial arts. You can only bend the human body in so many ways.
That is why it is ridiculous when someone claims aikido techniques don't work. If the same technique works in judo or Jujutsu then it works.
The problem is that aikido doesn't teach you how to fight. It teaches you techniques. If you want to fight you have to be strong and you have to learn how to fight. Then you can apply your techniques. No technique alone will win you any fight.
The same is true to many other martial arts.
I'm a judoka who has also done aikido and got introduced to Shodokan Aikido by my judo friend, who established the first Shodokan club in Finland. I also visited the Shodokan Hombu in Osaka and can recommend that place to everybody who wants to make themselves familiar with this style. My friend goes there normally twice a year and he says his judo has improved significantly because of that. Shodokan style has a more judo style approach (kuzushi, tsukuri, kake + randori) and it was originally meant to be the long distance set of techniques, additional to the judo being the close distance fight. So, I think properly practiced aikido can at least give something for other, more functional arts.
That's really interesting. Especially in that your friend said that the Tomiki style of Aikido actually helped with his judo. I'd really like to know more about this. I've made a video about Aikido on my UA-cam channel. Please check it out and let me know what you think 🙏🏾
This channel is so underrated! I really enjoy watching you continue to develop and learn!
Thanks Justin!
Brilliant video again. Enjoying the subject matter.
No, you were not wrong. You were an instructor of an art, and as an instructor you tested your art against other arts and found it insufficient. You have that right, and you have that ability to pass judgment on Aikido.
He is wrong. People make the style work, not the other way around. He actually already proved this with the Wing Chun video
@@adandyguyinspace5783 Yeah but when people make wing chun work they call it Sanda, and when people make Aikido work it’s called Judo. “Working” Aikido is literally just Judo.
@@haircutdeluxe Yep Working Aikido is literally Judo. Thats because most of the techniques in Aikido and Judo are the same and stem from the same source material, jujutsu a form of Budo, or the old combat arts of japan. The stuff the Samurai used to practice to improve their fighting ability. O'Sensei studied under Master Takeda learning Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu and formed Akido from fusing Aiki-jujutsu and the peaceful teachings of Omoto-Kyo. Judo is Aikido without the "peaceful harmony" and cause no harm elements.
Akido was not created for fighting against other martial arts it was created to fight against ruffians, crooks and trouble makers nit for fighting in a ring. People need to understand tge difference between fighting sport and true martial arts.
Also noticed there are striking hiting techniques in Akido....someone is not truly understanding their art.....
Two years ago I told you you’d come full circle back to Aikido. It has its place. I went through the same process... Welcome back! - If you study external martial art first, doing internal martial art is easy. If you study internal martial art first, external martial art is still hard....
Never heard this before, what's the difference between internal and external Martial Arts?
That's a really good way to put it. Aikido is definitely an internal or soft martial art. I made a video about Aikido on my channel. Please check it out and let me know what you think 🙏🏾
This was a joy to see, I’ve been following your channel for a little while. I practice Tai Chi, which seems to have a very similar reputation to aikido for seemingly similar reasons-tai chi practitioners that actually fight are quite rare and there’s a lot of woo out there. One of my fellow students came from an aikido background and has told several stories about her training coming in handy while being attacked (including a very funny one where a man decided to grab her thigh on an international flight because he thought she was asleep. I doubt his wrist was ever the same). Everyone looks to tai chi for healthy exercise instead of any martial arts benefit, but it’s there if you can find the right instructor.
Tai Chi Chuan is a fantastic martial art.
Just shows you with the right training, training mindset, pressure testing them and so on. It can work!
If you dig into Aikdo history you will release that Aikido was orginally trained by people with other martial arts experience, so it makes sense that people with without this experience can’t apply techniques correctly in real life situations.
Correct! Agree 100%. You will soon see this opinion will be ignored by the poster and other Aikido practitioners.
It really seems like in Japan's history the schools of martial arts were a lot less separated. Like the styles weren't completely different styles like as they're treated now. You didn't just subscribe to the doctrine of Aikijutsu, or Kenjutsu, Kyujutsu, Jujutsu, Tessenjutsu, Bojutsu, it's like each school had they're a combined style of multiple. There's even like Iaijutsu which is just drawing your sword, so it's like any practice was called Jutsu, but now people treat each thing like it's completely seperate.
@@snootigan Doesn't "jutsu" literally mean "technique"? That makes a lot of sense!
If you REALLY dig into aikido history, you realise that it was designed as a religious practice, as Ueshiba was an important member of the Omoto kyo cult. After that, OK, some people who practiced aikido also did judo and so on. So what? I find that a silly argument...
Which is 100% beside the point, seems virtually all Aikido school teach Aikido as a standalone concept not an extension of boxing, MMA, BJJ, etc. training.
Very good video, cool to see you mention the very legit Remy @ around 11:15 ... I'll be speaking with him tomorrow and have him on my channel next week!
I love the correlation you drew between akido and being a bouncer haha! I'm now imagining an elite crew of bouncers who are all akido masters, taking down drunk people.
which is not a reality...
Great video! I have a background in Japanese Jujitsu and worked as a bouncer as well. I found it worked for that exact reason; dealing with real attacks! This also changed my methodology when teaching as you described.
It works when you know grappling. I’m a BJJ, Judo and JJJ black belt. I couldn’t get a standing wrist lock to work against a resisting opponent until I had already reached black belt in all of them. Ground wrist locks are there all the time. It’s a long way to go though to get a black belt to learn techniques you won’t be able to pull off until you train for another ten or twenty years. It’s pretty cool when you he there though, and shit starts to make the practical sense because your body knows how to adjust to your opponents resistance. And yes, I worked in NYC nightclubs for six years. 🤣
With that level of training in BJJ, JJJ, and Judo, you should start your own channel and start producing content. You probably have a ton of insight. I'd subscribe to that for sure.
LOL, I fought competition off and on for 25 years in other martial arts before I found aikido. I realized the potential immediately, but was surprised it took me 20 years (like you) to figure it out.
Amazing video, Rokas! Thank you so much for sharing this.
🙏
Well said bro. Now we need to see whether Silat from Indonesia and Malaysia and also Filipino Martial Art are effective in handling streets situation.
I've looking into silat technically all silat means is just martial arts from Indonesia
I've been looking into Senegalese wrestling it incorporates elements of Boxing folk wrestling and judo especially in it's throws
@@tyronechillifoot5573 I am a Malaysian. There are so many styles of Silat here. I did trained in two styles of Silat called Cekak and Lian Padukan for a short period of time but I lose interest and currently I train in Judo and BJJ. I also train in Boxing and Muay Thai in the past but my passion is more to grappling arts. I'm just curious because I've never seen Silat being used in the streets.
@@dreadinside654 That’s interesting. Where I’m from most people don’t even know the name Silat, but I’ve only crossed hands with one Silat practitioner and well the man can certainly fight. In fact I was so impressed with his abilities that I brought a lot of friends and random guys to test his skills, and not just anyone... guys that have fought a lot in real fights as well as martial arts competitors from a variety of backgrounds. With that said it’s rare and he apparently has an understanding of Silat (Serak) that others don’t have as most others I’ve seen don’t have any fighting skills whatsoever. There are just select people from all over the world that can make certain martial arts work, but I’d rather invest my time in boxing/ wrestling, muay thai, jujutsu/BJJ, Juso at this point.
@@shogoracing4294 where you from? I heard that name before. It's called Silat Serak. I'm not sure where it comes from but I believe it's from Indonesia. Indonesia and Malaysia are neighboring countries so, we did share some similarities like the language and even martial art. There are so many styles of Silat in my country Malaysia and also there are some Silat that doesn't have a name and people just called it village's Silat. For example one style of Silat I have learned a long time ago was called Lian Padukan. It is a mixture of Silat sendeng, silat sunting and chinese wing chun. If you search on you tube will see a lot of videos about Silat maybe hundred of styles. Currently I'm in love with my two martial arts : Judo and BJJ.
Silat is such a wide category I feel like it needs to be a bit specified when talked about. Even with specific martial arts it can be a huuuuge variety in how they're trained just one town over or even one dojo over.
Your distinction between the techniques, methodology, and focus of a martial art is a helpful contribution to the discussion of what it means to say a martial art works. Thanks for the great content!
You should try Daitō-ryū Aiki-Jujutsu, which is the ancient battlefield precursor to Aikido. It’s a more aggressive version of it with joint breaks and reversals of the attacker’s blades against them.
You just kicked the Ultimate and right question!. Thumbs up!!!!!
Rokas, I would make three points on what you have said in this video,
1. I heard a story a number of years ago... A small group of people who, regularly met to talk and practice training, came from differing martial back grounds. The guys were trying out moves on each other in a ring and discussing the outcomes, (I think perhaps all were long practiced in their particular disciplines, but for the most part these were eastern martial arts). One of the guys had come up with something that caused discussion just as one of their group arrived. So, they asked him what he would do. Now the person that had just arrived was a wrestler and his answer to the problem was that he would just bend down and grab the attacker around the knees, then do this, then this. The rest of them looked at each other and said that there was no way that would work, he would just kick you in the head as soon as you bent down, but the wrestler insisted it would work - in fact he said he could prove it. So, when another of the group arrived they should this new arrival the technique and he agreed to try it on the wrestler who, much to the surprise of all watching, particularly his opponent, successfully carried out exactly what he said he would do.
The moral of the story was - If your opponent thinks your next move is something and you do something completely different then your move is far more likely to succeed.
I would suggest that this is how Aikido, (or any martial art), could be used - but it would need the practitioner not to be surprised themselves, (which is what I think has been one of your main points in your videos so far).
(Although, of course, it could also mean that wrestling is just very much under-rated as a serious martial art.)
2. Most bouncers who work in inner city clubs have a particular mind set, (not that they are all the same as people, by any means), but they generally have certain personality traits that not everyone has, and they are likely to be able to make certain techniques work as a result, where others may not be able to pull them off, (without training to help them overcome their, let's say, 'inhibitions' and to gain some willpower).
3. Bouncers generally have a head start, psychologically. Even the most rambunctious of punters has in the back of their minds that when they kick off, they are going to get thrown out - and so they get thrown out. I would say there are probably other factors too, but, on the other hand, a club is definitely a good place to practice techniques.
I don't know if any of this helps. Perhaps these things are obvious to you.
Bouncers work in a team, communicating and trespassing intoxicated patrons. Big Difference from combat alone with a sober stranger using skills and or weapons at times.
@@brucehuddler7518 , very true. It is a particular environment with particular circumstances that favour select personal traits.
It's amazing watching you go full circle in your journey.
"Old school" Aikido is real. "New school" Aikido is really fun!!
its all bullshit against an mma fighter
@@adamspice9076 Well neither one of you are holding katanas and trying to kill each other on a battlefield...so yeah.
@@adamspice9076 Tbf if i learn boxing I'm still going to be smashed by a professional mma fighter. Does that make boxing ineffective
@@simonedwards5220 no but boxers HAVE beat mma fighters in mma. Ray Mercer KO'd bigfoot. Meanwhile Bullshido has NO examples. Bc it's too deadly against mma fighters
@@apomtaylor8054 James toney v Couture ? 9 times out of 10 a grappler beats a boxer
Regardless of being right or wrong about Aikido, I completely admire you for being open to the exploration. Respect
Good video. Lenny, Azu and Dan seem like big units. I suspect having height and weight advantage and executing aikido techniques imperfectly will still go well for them vs being a smaller, lighter aikidoka. Also the obvious of pressure testing against live resistance each week will certainly speed up the learning curve!
These important factors cannot be discounted. Also there seems to be two schools within aikido - those that say atemi is 90% of the art vs the opposite. Surely the importance of being able to set up the technique with atemi is non negotiable?
Ps those three practitioners are dealing with people under the influence at night clubs - not the same as sparring or fighting with someone who’s sober - their reflexes are slower, less co-ordinated with an over inflated sense of self confidence.
Thanks for all the pointers to "applied Aikido", those are a treasure trove for those who want to adapt "soft" techniques into "hard" fighting styles.
I guess it’s like Donnie Yen said in the Ip Man movie, “It’s not about style, it’s about you” can you make what you know to work for you, change and adapt in changing situations, find what you are good at and add what is missing, find the benefit in what you are learning, Mr. Myagi told Daniel in the Karate Kid, “Trust quality of what you know, not quantity”
While I generally agree with the sentiment, there are elements of pressure testing that, in my experience and the accounts of many others, have to be applied or you can end up with a false sense of security. I've trained a few styles of karate over the years but one double jab to the face from a boxer taught me more than any amount of additional practice could have at that point in my life.
I have no formal training and have not practiced martial arts, but I have a great deal of fighting experience. The difference between these displays of martial ability or partnered sparring and fighting is; One headbutt to the face changes all subsequent balance, confidence, and entanglement desires. There are things that cannot be practiced, but are very effective at ending fights. Another one of those things is implementing fear in your opponent; Albeit with violence or without. Effective intimidation can prevent a lot of bodily harm.
I truly believe in your conclusion here! Well said!
Rokas, if you tried to pressure test Aikido and make it work, it would just be Judo or BJJ with a few Aikido wristlocks and takedowns. Ever heard of the phrase "no Canadian geometry?" Geometry is just geometry. Physics is just physics..
There is no "Canadian geometry" term became popular because of the video I made 😂 You can find it here: ua-cam.com/video/rVuNDVgnBvE/v-deo.html
Canadian here. Canadian geometry is like regular geometry but with maple syrup. Just thought I should clear that up. 😜
@@MartialArtsJourney ah yes I think I got it from your video too lok
Love the knowledge
20 yrs of aikido and I am still happily a beginner. My old sensei said you need to remove the fight from yourself to reach a high level. I appreciate not everyone likes that idea.O Sensei taught Self victory. Still learning and not fighting. Respect to all styles!. It's never the style always the mind of the practitioner.
"20 yrs of aikido and I am still happily a beginner. My old sensei said you need to remove the fight from yourself to reach a high level. I appreciate not everyone likes that idea.O Sensei taught Self victory. Still learning and not fighting. Respect to all styles!. It's never the style always the mind of the practitioner."
Well you've been tricked. If style doesn't matter, then the style is worthless. You could change anything you want about Aikido and your changes wouldn't make it better or worse. You could make up your own and it would be exactly as good as Aikido. And if you want to "not fight", a martial art is the last thing you need to learn.
I am glad you have finally addressed the heart of the matter. Thank you for your humble statements. You make some very good points. I too have been a doorman/bouncer and have used aikido several times to great effect so I do think that there is a link of real application against intoxicated offenders. I would add to your comments that indeed resistance and pressure testing is needed at some point, but martial arts are primarily for self defence and often aggressors are the ones that are untrained. If you have a well trained aikidoka vs a non trained drunken aggressor for example, it will likely end favourably for the Aikidoka. If you have a poorly trained Aikidoka and a well trained drunken aggressor it will go the other way. The final thing I would say is that due to the majority of aikido techniques stressing joints, ligaments and delicate structures, if someone resists too forcefully and someone applies the technique with equal force, they can be truly destructive. I have seen someone get a broken shoulder as a result of this. There must always be a balance and understanding with pressure testing that is built up very slowly over many years. As always, if you are ever in the UK 🇬🇧 I would love to dicuss more with you and have some friendly sparring.
Lenny is built like a body builder. Come one, he could make Yoga work as self defence. There are lots of moves to use from different martial arts, the question is how effective are they. Aikido to me seems to be only useful for big guys like segal when someone tries to grab them. Its more energy efficient for a big guy to use a hold instead of striking
Then that's mean it works, or at least understand some "conditions" but still works. Also in the same time, means that the claim it's fonctional as self-defence for everyone is wrong.
One other KEY factor to consider about the "successful" Aikido practitioners that were mentioned is their sheer SIZE!!! Lenny himself in one of his videos concerning the topic said just as much by admitting that if he didn't want someone to move his arm it wasn't going to happen.
Based on what I'm seeing for Shodokan Aikido, it looks like it'll work to a solid extent as a takedown art like Shuai Jiao or Judo. The training methodology looks legitimate enough from all Ive learned.
I was a former Tomiki practioner for a few years (Tomiki and Shodokan Aikido are practically the same thing with some tiny differences) and did some Shodokan too.
Honestly, it's better than most Aikido but still not amazing compared to other combat sports. The benefits of Tomiki/Shodokan is it's better and helping you judge distance, it has good footwork and you get decent fitness from the randori. It can also desensitize you to an extent in terms of doing moves against a resisting opponent.
That said, it will still take you years and years to get decent, and even then there are tons of gaps.
@@iorekby Yeah, I kinda figured. I was giving it the benefit of doubt on that, since I don't know too much about it.
@@iorekby I was a practicioner of Shodokan Aikido and I think you're right. The everyday light sparring practice is useful to learn what works and what does not. 5 or 6 techniques are useful in real life IMHO
Been doing Tomiki Aikido for about 12 years. I love it. But I'm also perhaps a bit biased because I have excellent teachers who also study Takamura ha Shindo Yoshin Ryu with Toby Threadgill Sensei (the only caucasion Kai Cho of a traditional koryu), so that influence keeps us close to our Samurai roots with regard to practicality and effectiveness. I think one of the great things about Tomiki/Shodokan Aikido is the emphasis on the key principles - used in all techniques, and the systematic approach to aikido. And of course the full resistance randori competition which is so important for testing effectiveness, identifying weak spots and in general teaching how to remain relaxed in intense situations (since good aikido can only occur when relaxed). But I've also seen rather poor Tomiki aikido. So it's like any other martial art - there are good dojos and instructors and not so good. Cheers and good luck!
@@ManueldelaFe That's another emphasis that I like about Tomiki/Shodokan Aikido - the philosophy that it's better to know just a few techniques really well, rather than a zillion techniques but mastering none. If you came out of it confident that you have 5 or 6 effective techniques available that's a win. After all, all you need is 1 good technique to end the confrontation. I think of aikido not as a back-and-forth fighting art, as much as an art that ENDS fights. You should be able to end the conflict with 1 good technique. It may take a while to apply a technique, to find the right opportunity (and so you must have good taisabake and patience), but when it works it works well.
Excellently honest assessment of what makes any martial art work. Great video as usual👌
good video. btw, can i ask what video editing app do you use? your editing is always so good.
Thanks Marco! I've put a ton of work into editing this video, so I'm really glad to hear it 😁 I use Adobe Premiere
You are a treasure for the Martial Arts community. Your videos have altered the way I think of my experience with Aikido, Jeet Kune Do, and Satori SAMA. Thank you.
"it does not prove that every aikidoka could use their Aikido in a fighting or self defense scenario"
You can replace it with ANY martial arts, don't be a simp!
Does BJJ works? Yes. Is EVERY BJJ practitioner able to use it to defend himself? HELL NO
It just one piece of a whole ppl forget that aikido, jujutsu,judo were all one art
That's a great point. It's true that different martial arts develop different attributes. So, each one can provide an important element that another can't. I've made a video about Aikido on my UA-cam channel. Please check it out and let me know what you think 🙏🏾
Hey Rokas at 9:17 you talk about an Aikido move that can be used as a Rear Naked escape in BJJ. Do you have a video where I can study this? Would love to add this to my BJJ training! Thanks!!
I believe Stephan Kesting explains it in this video: ua-cam.com/video/Gp5V5eTug6s/v-deo.html
@@MartialArtsJourney awesome thanks Sensei!
Super indepth video 👌👌👌. Please continue making such type of videos Bro 😎😎😎💪💪💪
this video(specially the last part) made me tickle my interest in "what is the connection/relation between aikido and bouncer" and why those bouncer uses aikido and why aikido is effective in bouncer?...
i hope you could make a video about this...
Easy, you're bouncer you don't want to get sued, so don't punch people in the face, at least when you know you can be take on cctv .
basically wanting to do non-destructive incapacitation against mostly drunk non-fighter people.
I think that is because bouncer must be able do do his work whidout escslating conflict. At leaast that is an idea. If someone is behaving badly bouncer should have controll over him instead of knock out the man and start fight with his drunk friends.
I have been watching your channel for a while (back when you had long hair) and it’s been awesome seeing your journey. Some things that I see a lot online is „does this style work?“ I think that question alone depends on a lot of factors that have more to do with the instructor and the purpose of that particular dojo/dojang. Some places look at martial arts as more of a confidence builder and less on practical terms. In other words, the instructor is more important than the style.
First: WCRA is Serbian not Czech.
Second: once Lenny Sly arm is bigger than whole Ueshiba's body.
True fact: Monkey hands make Aikido effective.
Acctualy doesn't matter because Aikido in '80s was spread through the Europe by Masatomi Ikeda sensei in Serbia and also in Czech... rep.
I have never practiced Aikido only BJJ and Judo, but had to give it up due to injury, age and the live sparring aspect. I believe all traditional martial arts have value and none are perfect. UFC has proven this. I was once given a book by a friend called 'Angry White Pyjamas' about the Japanese Police Aikido Academy where they practiced Aikido including live sparring 6 days a week 8 hours a day like the old Japanese Judo Universities. It was a great story, but did highlight the injuries from Aikido live sparring, which is why many of the wrist locks etc were removed from the Judo curriculum. However all martial arts need live sparring to test and refine the application of their techniques. Just as you must believe in your martial art for it to be effective.
Lenny Sly KILLED IT with his pressure testing videos. For some reason people had a problem with them, but I honestly think those need to be standard for modern Aikido practitioners who choose a different path from the strictly purist practitioners and schools.
What I love about your videos, is that it always makes me think about what martial arts are really about. And, one thing I've come to realize and understand is that, tradition is worth shit. Don't get me wrong: respecting the old masters and their teachings is super important, I'm not talking about throwing the baby with the bathwater. But, think about it for a minute.
My main style of martial arts is karate. I don't have a specific style of karate and train pretty much every one of them (the differences are slim between them). So, of course, I love seeing what the old masters did, and looking at the history of Okinawan martial arts in general. And, one thing anyone with a brain notices RIGHT from the beginning: back in the day, martial arts were ever evolving. You can't look at, say, Shuri-te (the style of okinawan martial art that evolved into Shorin Ryu, Shotokan, Wado-Ryu, etc...) within a 50 years gap and think "this art has not evolved at all". Even within their lifetimes, the old masters made their techniques evolve, with the maturity and experience they gained in life.
So my question is now: why is it that we froze these martial arts in time? We can't seem to be able to accept to evolve them, shape them, make them live in the same world as we live in. For example, bunkai in karate had a very specific goal, to teach the mechanisms of self defense against one, just ONE opponent. Now? It's become a spectacle that has no application in a real life scenario, to the point where I'm pretty sure most black belts don't even know the meaning of, say, changing directions in kata.
Even better is that appeal to tradition, the "it was better before". You know when karate was invented? In the early 20th century. You know what "non traditional martial art" is older than that? Boxing. Savate. Wrestling. Karate is a modern style, that encompasses so many other styles and martial arts from cultures and people who have influenced and did commerce with Okinawa.
The same thinking can be applied to all martial arts, including Aikido. I genuinely think that if Daito Ryu has survived from its creation to this day, it's because of its effectiveness, but I'm also pretty sure the daito ryu of eld doesn't really look the same as the daito ryu from the 19th century, for example. So, again, we apparently sacrificed efficiency, and evolution of an art of warfare to... spectacle.
And, honestly, the fact that the people in your video that make aikido techniques work are people who worked as bouncers is pretty telling of an art of war needing to be pressure tested to be effective. I don't think it's the art, so much as the way it's taught, that's the problem.
Great Video - looking forward to krav maga and ninjutsu ;)
👊
In every martial art everybody can be a practitioner, but not everybody can be a fighter
A good follow up question to this video- in the given examples, why are the techniques shown "Aikido" techniques? So yes techniques that appear in Aikido have been done against live resisting opponents... But those exact same techniques exist in all traditional Jujutsu. So is it Aikido that is working or traditional Jujutsu? What is the difference between the two?
From the examples shown- it could also be said that being bigger and more experienced works more than the Aikido, as every example was shown with a bigger, more experienced Nage. Isnt Aikido the martial art where smaller people can defeat bigger ones- if so, that was not shown in any of the examples.
I'm playing devil's advocate here. Great video.
100%. There's are great questions. Would love to see good answers from people who are advocating traditional aikido
Speaking as a large, strong Aikido person, I can tell you that small, weak people have an advantage in Aikido. Strong people tend to try to push through resistance, which doesn't work. (there is always someone stronger than you.) Weak people don't have that option and move with the "attacker" better. In many situations, having a lower center of gravity gives a person the advantage. That's much easier for short people.
Aikido brings an additional philosophy to the table compared to Jujitsu: The "attacker" and "defender" are not opponents, they are partners in resolving a conflict. I'm probably a member of the slow learners club, but it took me years to understand what that means.
This wider view is what makes Aikido a "do." You can bring this view into all conflicts in your life. This may sound hyperbolic, but changing my attitude toward conflict changed my life.
Yes, good questions. And I agree with Peter. First of all, what makes the techniques aikido techniques, fundamentally, is that there must be aiki - using the blending of the attackers energy and redirecting that energy. (Ai = harmony/blending, Ki = energy, Do = the way; the way of blending or harmonizing energy.) If you're using your muscles, it's not aikido - or not good aikido. A technique may still work, but not as well if you have to rely on muscle. So, the technique may be rooted in Jujutsu but it's aikido only if aiki is used - using the attacker's redirected energy and not your own muscles for the energy. To add to Peter's point, in our dojo the women and small men have an advantage as beginners. When learning we all watch and try to copy Sensei and his demonstrations. As beginners, particularly bigger men like myself, we use too much muscle, mainly arm strength, to copy Sensei. Women and smaller men simply don't have much muscle. The ONLY way they can emulate Sensei is to do it without muscle - the right way. So they learn quicker it seems. They are forced to have good kuzushi skills - taking away uke's balance and structure - by using proper positioning, etc. instead of depending on arm strength. That all said, there is always SOME muscle involved, and in a real confrontation you may need muscle - in particular to escape a situation. Taller people also have the advantage of longer reach and longer stride, so extensions and extending and expanding (very important principles in aikido) can be more effective. But believe me, small people do just fine and do indeed handle bigger people well. Cheers.
I love what you are doing man. And i mostly agree! The ting is when you go in to a dodjo of any kind of sport there are rules and ppl training have to obey to them. But this does not mean its not functional. What it means is ppl arent rdy to use it face 2 face in real combat. When it comes to real fight ting go in different direction. My sensei always tells us this is training. In a real fight the opponent dues not stop when the hit connects does not stop.... The hit tries to go true you. But it actually helps having the routine to react. Ye you might not do it "correct" in the sense of how you do it in training but it sure helps knowing how to move and lock your opponent. There is something else. Aikido is meant to be for self defence. And in a real situation defending almost never stops by you holding a hand or a finger. It ends when your opponent is down knocked out. In a sense aikido does not work. But in a sense it does. Keep doing what you are doing. I love it!
This video gives me hope. Despite how Aikido has made me feel, I still find whatever I got from it valuable.
You have to make YOU work my friend
Aikido has locks throws and movements good for fighting. But it's a set of skills, that you need to combine with other skill sets needed for fighting, like striking, grappling, stress training and what works best for you for competition or self defense or tactical work.
Aikido is beautiful as an art, don't ever doubt that. But tradition always rejects progress and that has hurt the martial arts world. TMA masters got away with their undisputed claims until mass media and the internet came up and developed to the point they can't hide anymore in a cloud of doubt and make believe. All fighting techniques converged into MMA and that's how things work. When you're free to compare, keep what works and throw what doesn't, things converge to a very well defined set of techniques. We should look no further but try to improve what is already proven, MMA.
Finally, you have start to learn aikido, congratullations.
Thank you for putting martial arts in its proper context. You are able to point out the flaws in the training aspects without denigrating the style itself, which is fair contextually. 👍
Brilliant precise analysis
I think you got the potencial to transform Aikido in a usefull martial art in real life situations, with live oponents.
Perfect practice makes perfect. You fight how you have trained. 👍👍
sometimes people talk about what works and what doesnt work but ..... but people dont look at How can i make this work for realisim and pressure testing...... .................DAN the WolfMAn freaking LEGEND
The art of peace. When I read the book it made me think Aikido was never meant for fighting. It’s beautiful, I love to watch aikido!
Ha Aikido was made since the beginning for people who already knew how to fight for soldiers and figthers who were looking for a more gentle and meditative way. Learning Aikido from zero makes it much less efficient.
I love how you test your beliefs
Believe me, Aikido doesn't need you to prove it wrong
Another great one
moral of the story: if you want aikido to work, BECOME A BOUNCER
To go against drunk people