Is Synergy in Audio Cables Real or Snake Oil?
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Check any audiophile facebook group or forum and you will find dozens of enthusiasts asking "what are the best cables to use with my audio components?" There are never shortages of recommendations from fellow enthusiasts and sometimes even industry experts have their own recommendations too. PS Audio recently announced a partnership with Audioquest citing that their products have a real "synergy" together. Is there any merit to this claim or is it pure marketing BS?
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#audiophile #cables #science
Gene, you make too much sense to be popular with most audiophiles. 🤣
You just summed up why @Audioholics is so darn amazing. Keep being awesome Gene!
I used to watch videos from PS Audio..... But then my wife complained that she could hear the BS from the kitchen!
Elderly salesmen...
@@Bob.martenswhat’s the alternative to being elderly? Being dead. Sounds like you don’t want to become elderly.
I stopped watching that fraud after he says power cables make A difference.
Think about it…listening to copper, nothing else, listening to copper! Either dumb or crazy!
BS Audio
I love how hard you crush people's hopes and dreams, no remorse. Some of this fantasy stuff is fun to believe and audio jewelry is beautiful, but it's so important to have someone like you bringing everyone back to reality. Let's make real improvements rather than spending so much time and resources on nonsense. Keep up the great work!
Sup Godfather of Home Theater, Gene Corleone aka Don Dellasala. I think you were fair in this one. Constructive in your criticism. Tough to argue with science.
I could sell a $#!∆ ton of high end cables just by saying they look awesome, they feel awesome, they're expensive and therefore exclusive. No unproven claims there. And throw a hot chick in for good measure. $$$$!
Joe N Tell well said brother. He really is GENE Corleone. I Hope you have a great day Brother.
:)) Cheers to the Audioholics Mafia
Joe N Tell
Hey, Joe. Wanna start a cable business? I know a couple of very attractive females. 😜
In this stoneage good looking guys might work too lol
The "hot chick" is ongoing expense.
Down votes by PS Audio, Audioquest and snake oil suckers...
Paul and his absurd cable nonsense turned me off to his channel. He went from a nice ole guy to a charlatan the first time I heard him go down that road. There's no way he truly believes that drivel. I still peak over there because some topics are interesting in other areas, but I'm calloused and suspicious of his opinions.
I don't know but following his ideas with subwoofers made a huge difference to m y system and I only use a Onkyo AVR
ua-cam.com/video/5AoiS_e8wBA/v-deo.html
I personally like the guy and the channel. I think he is entertaining and smart. He isn't an idiot that is for sure. Like you though I don't agree with everything he says. Like power cables and speaker wires and the likes. Then again I don't really believe in god either, but I am not going to hate those that do.
PS Audio Noise Harvester AC cleaner... blinking light for $99. That's all I'm going to say.
I love this channel and Paul's as well - and, I think that Paul might even secretly agree with you to an extent. But he's a manufacture that has to "play nice" with other manufactures in the space. As long as cable manufactures spend huge money advertising in stereo related print and internet ads, I doubt manufacturers and even many reviewers, will call them out for being snake oil. It's one of many issues in the industry on a whole.
PS Audio now sells audioquest cables so of course Paul is going to talk them up in hopes of increased sales when someone buys an amp they can sell expensive power cords ,interconnects and speaker wire all at the same time. One thing I find particularly amusing is they now sell and use Audioquest Dragon power cords on the INPUT and output of their Power Plant regenerators ,now since the Power plant makes it's own clean power regardless of input why use expensive inputs.
I've always found the PS Audio videos to have very dubious and sometimes incorrect claims, with poor explanations of engineering.
@@rarelycomments You're alrignt. I apreciate Paul as a person, but his channel is based mostly on non-sense claims and audiophile BS...
@Mr Do I agree for 192Khz... but if you can't see the difference between 4K and 1080P contents, you need to change your glasses.
PS: there's no 16b/44Khz-only DACs anymore....
@@vintageflanker7096
Cd's are 16 bit 44.1 khz so 24 bit etc DACs is meaningless and 4k is stupid! If you have at minimum a 55 inch screen and sit 3 feet from it you will notice a diff, otherwise you won't. I couldn't give 2 craps about 4k.
Gene ... you are incorrect. Totally incorrect. The best component to use with max effect are still cable lifters. All of a sudden the system will sound exactly like the performers are in front of you. Don’t waste money on cables. Get cable lifters. 😂🤣
Paul must be referring to the synergy with his bank account.
Haha... So true
Would that be his wife and the bank account more likely
😭😭😭
@@kevonmanuel 99% True to be precise :D
LOL!
I hear you get the best synergy when you put a Spock cutout in a Ferrari , it lifts a veil on the exhaust note!
Oh look it's my favorite cigar channel commenting on my favorite audiophile channel. Nice.
@@youngmrjazz That's synergy for you. :D
I learned my most important lesson about placebo effect when I adjusted a tone control on a console several times until it sounded perfect only to realize that I had it bypassed.
Dan That’s happened to the best of us, usually after too much listening.
Ouch!
I'm really glad you called Paul out on his bs. Lying about your product is a fast way to sink your company. I watched Paul's videos until he made the one about Audioquest cables and how they made his system soooo much better. The problem was that he was talking about power cables going into his own Power Stream power conditioners that cost $10,000 each! Shouldn't a $10k power conditioner already have amazing power cables on it? And if the $7k cables fix everything then why do I need a $10k power conditioner? I was really interested in his products until he lied. I'll be looking elsewhere for my new DAC when I buy it!
i mean. kinda silly to think he's *lying* about it, when his own company makes a competing product. wrong, sure, but if he was lying surely it'd be in the other direction.
wober777 At least Paul has a company making great sounding audio gear, I think he knows what he is talking about. Go read the article Gene posted. Maybe you guys should go on a road trip to Colorado to meet and listen and then make a judgment.
I really enjoyed Paul's videos, and had considered buying PS Audio products until I got the email announcing the PS Audio line of cables made by AudioQuest. It was really disappointing and I lost a lot of respect for him and the company.
I agree . If the PS audio functioned as advertised you should not need a fancy cable .
The synergy here is a business contract to align the two companies marketing machines together to promote snake oil products.
I remember a review of the Technics Reference Series System where the reviewer thought the system was not sounding great until he switched the Ethernet cables that send a digital signal from the preamp to the amp to some fancy cable ethernet cables. This reviewer "discovered" how these magic cables changed the data stream from the digital signal and made it sound like magic. I stop reading that magazine that day. It was The Absolute Sound BTW
If anyone isn't fully convinced why data cables (and hard drives) can't change the sound, imagine you're transferring a file instead. If there were differences, the file would be full of errors. Executables simply wouldn't run. Websites wouldn't load. It would be useless.
It can happen but not because some esotherical reasons : I had troubles with a server farm which were showing intermitency. The reason: cable quality (the wires weren't holding in place after patched) and the technical aid (student) didn't patch correctly the cables. It was around 20 yr ago.
@@Yu-Fei-Hung yeah absolutely. But if the cable is well made and in good condition….
@@irisfailsafe there are cable comparisons made by musicians to check how these can modify the sound. Check this UA-cam video (Spanish):
ua-cam.com/video/mw6Ja1o0mzE/v-deo.html
The simple answer is: The Audioquest CEO is the PS Audio CEO’s friend. He has said so.
And audio quest is a huge rip off.... lol
The owner of Audioquest lives in a 5 million dollar condo IN a Newport Beach shopping center. Lots of markup in Chinese-made cables.
What's wrong with Chinese made cables?? Raw material and literally everything is made in that place. Also alot of aq cables are made in USA high end ones.
Stanny1 Shows he’s a successful businessman, no different than restaurant owners that serve $500 entrees or someone selling $200 jeans with rips in the knees. No one HAS to buy their goods, yet people do.
Stanny1 should he live in the hood to make you feel better? Where would you live if you were in the same situation?
He could go shopping every day 🎁
When I sold Audioquest us salesmen got 75% off retail. We also got points for all the Audioquest we sold. I have AQ cables everywhere in my house. I would never in a million years buy those cables at retail.
Also met Bill Lowe of AQ once. He was an interesting guy.
I've done a/b blind testing with expensive and cheap cables and really nobody could consistently tell a difference. Even had spliced together speaker wire at times. Cables and wire are the biggest crock of b/s in the consumer market.
@Mr Do not sure what point you are trying to make here.
Gene you are talking science to people who believe in magic.
Gene is one of the few people that review products and various claims made by the sales side of the audio business with an eye towards the consumers best interest so God bless him for that. In this case I'd love to see if Gene could get the owners at Blue Jean Cables to weigh in on this, not to bash their competition, but just to offer their opinions on various types of cables and how they manufacture and sell very reasonably priced interconnects.
It seems every few years Gene has to discuss the snake oil market of the audio industry.
been minutes lately
“Just when I thought I was out…they pull me back in.”
I'm all about measurements. Because with measurements, sure you can argue, was it measured correctly, but other than that, measurements are measurements. At some point the excuses go away. That's the problem with abx tests. Audiophiles tend to not want to abx their setups, because they'll claim there's some special property about their unit, its burn in, its cable synergy, the fact that it must be kept on for hours before its ready to play from off, no matter the time off, etc., etc., etc. It's always some excuse, because I think deep down, there's an element of narcissism there. They tell themselves they believe these things because they're intelligent audiophiles, they've tested this $300 1ft usb cable and it's truly awe-inspiring the difference it makes. It's impossible for some of these people to put their egos, and themselves, aside for a moment and talk about science, i.e. testable hypotheses.
now I know who Paul ain't inviting over for thanksgiving dinner this year.......
Yo Gene be going hard at these cable snake oil companies with the ferocity of a lion who hasn't eaten in weeks being put in the same room with a fat juicy tender goat
PS Audio is THE worst... selling $1,000 cables
Over at AudioScienceReview Amir debunked a $2,300 set of AudioQuest cables. No special performance and failed when tested for shielding. If they're willing to rip people off with a BS $2,300 cable what won't they do.
What the hell do you know, Gene, you're just an engineer!
I don't have any money, but I am going to buy a pair of these beautiful 2 feet interconnects ($10,000 each) right now. And you know what? I already know that it will be the best thing ever!
What Do You Know, Gene! WHAT DO YOU KNOW!
ALL HAIL GOD TRUMP!!! I will pray to him for your sake.
The world is flat by the way!
Lots of fraud in audio marketing.
I wish every rabid "audiophile" would watch this video, if only to become more educated about this hobby. Unfortunately, too many of them are ignorant and refuse to learn, or else won't accept information which doesn't serve a cause.
Measurements also cause placebo effects, due to preconditioned information. Why would you not rely on your ears when it comes to audio? Where do you draw the line? Can you hear your measurements, or is it just the placebo you're hearing?
Finally we got some expert telling the facts. All these audio cable makers basically sell snake oil. Oh yes they even sell a $10 power cord for $1000
Let the war begin ! I listen to Pauls videos. But i feel that most of it is b.s. A 75$ usb cable sounds better than a standard one, really ? A 1000$ ac cable will sound better than the standard ac cable i bought for 15$ ? Yeah sure whatever, ill listened to Audioholics and bought a giant rool of amazon basics 100% cooper wire for my speakers. And built my own interconnects with standard coaxial cable. Thanks Gene ! I would love to have a beer with you (i have about 1500 beers in my house 😋). But you cant have a beer with Paul, if i remember right he doesnt drink beer.
You don't get it. All the answers are in the scenarios for which you have contempt. I bet you think youre being hard on the cable guys. When they came to the store where I worked I didn't put up with their crap, threw a few out but mainly they just didnt waste my time in future visits. "Take me to dinner money bags.: Again running 10 guage wire for background speakers is just like buying $2000 interconnects. If my brother ran 10guage wire for inwall speakers (I guess you noticed most custom installation speaker can only fit 14guage) I would ask him wtf he was thinking. if you're so worried about losses install the amplifiers closer to the speakers. You don't know it but you pass on dumb stuff too. You said all cables like Kimber were garbage but now you know they are not, Infact that 10 guage soundking blue jeans is awful cable but this is not my show.. Cables as a tone control is a thing (keep in mind most audiophile cables make the sound worse not better), if a guy uses a cable like a Cardas Golden Cross (NLA) that cable will roll of the highs just a little, the guy has a tizz and boob speaker in an untreated room....follow me......with the highs cut a little he can tolerate playing the speaker a little louder. What happens when the same song is now played louder? More dynamics, more detail and it was the cables that did it!!!! You will reach people when you understand better how their decision is made. Because that cable did make the system sound better and you talking about all your measurements, they will tell you were to stuff your audio analyzer. So yeah bad cables work. What you have to understand is I hate cable hype as much as you, and I am so much better at getting under their skin. You have formulated a lot of questions that I have asked many many national sales reps and engineers (20 years ago). But you ignore reality, you ignore that a man can buy a bad cable and put it into a bad system and suddenly listen for hours longer. Cable is Alchemy...they strive only to make the cable sound different...when there is a difference someone can form a preference. like a Rubiks Kube you have all the sides but you have not aligned them properly to win people's minds. I appreciate the energy but you're pushing up hill. I know what I am saying will seem a little twisted but we're talking about audiophiles who will go through unecessary pain and suffering and expense to run 10 guage wire through their house for background music. :) If you feel it is necessary I will share one of my OCD rituals as it relates to audio. We all have them. Audioquest has like the ShamWow guy doing product training. THey are very good at what they do...selling cables.
If i send you my cable, that i designed, will you skip measurements and go straight to sound validation? If you hear a decent difference, will you advertice it on your channel and become a dealer? It will be a 50-50 after cost...
Anyone who owns Audioquest or some other high-end cables, please send them to Gene so he can measure.
Sure. But whatever he do that won't solve the problem. Their cables are most probably audibly transparent. Still, Audiophools will claim hear night and day differences all the same.
@Mr Do Just look at anti-vaxxing. One doctor lied and made a false claim that vaccinations caused autism. Within the next 3 years Europe saw outbreaks. They caught on and started vaxxing again and it dropped back down. Now in America it resurfaced and look at our outbreaks. Evidence shows the doctor was wrong and that he based if off a few kids and changed the numbers to favor his theory. Does that stop people from believing vaccinations cause autism??? NOPE. Some people are just dumb and will believe myths in the face of evidence. It's literally no different here.
I own some Audioquest Forest interconnect, which costs $35 or so and their more expensive model, which was $50. Is it high-end enough for snake oil debunking experiment?
@@audiofun999 Since you can get much more reliable Mogami/Canare interconnects for 20-30$, I guess it already starts to be "snake oil". 😉
Send them to me, I have some stuff from a flying saucer that I would like to sell them.
The bank balance determined the cable synergy..... PS audio ? More like BS audio
You have probably have made a lot of enemies..... consequences of telling the truth
PS really needs a wanker analyser
In the end it's all about listening BUT obviously in a blind test.
You can make perfect measuring products that sounds like shit...period :)
Stumbled on your channel researching cables after reading up the science behind the resistivity of different metals before I made a purchase and in your video you confirmed exactly what the figures I was reading seemed to suggest.
Now I'm hooked on your other videos! Can't deny the science that is there👍
For me, I purchased several cables from AudioQuest and Blue Jeans from a retailer that I could return them without issue. I tested them with my system in my room. Similar to how
Zero Fidelity does in his videos. I found that there was a difference in sound quality from cable to cable. Some of the differences were minor, others were more obvious. However that being said, I love PS Audio hardware, but I would not purchase $1000 cables.
I would not purchase nickel for AudioQuest cables
Did you do a blind test? If you didn't it's just confirmation bias.
Ya Gene great vid. The synergy PS Audio refers to is complete BS. Science is hard to argue with.
Measuring something in a lab where you look at a 0 and a 1 and experience what a person should do is a big difference. We decide on smells we like. I choose perfume for my nose not what it says on the packaging. I eat organic meat and always have a favorite brand. I don't like McDonald's but I like Burger King. What I see with my eyes I like. For a human, lab measurements are not indicative. Thankfully we use our 7 senses to decide what we like and don't like. I am a regular person who likes music and has invested some money in my sound system. I live in Europe in Sweden and I am not a fan of either you or anyone else you mention in your channel. What I oppose, however, is that you say that we humans cannot hear the difference between speaker cables, and that is exactly what we do. Specification on paper is one thing, but what we hear, feel and see is what determines what we feel. I have a tube amp and I happened to have the opportunity to listen to different speaker cables before I bought them, and I actually happened to choose Audioquest over many other brands BEFORE I heard the difference. On the papers according to specification I could never decide the folded cable I would have but by listening I could decide. When I buy a new TV I do not check the specification but I go to the store watching TV until I find the TV I like. The fact that PS audio has been able to hear and feel good for Audioquest I can understand because I chose my speaker cable in the same way. And what I hear you can never put a spec on or measure up. Two cables can have the same measurement values that they can sound completely different. No one has been able to prove to me through set why I hear more treble, headroom, stage, wide music more in one cable but not in the other. I just wanted to write to you here that we are not robotic and a 101010 is not the least interesting to us humans but we decide things by seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling.
Hitchen’s Razor…. I like that. I’ve been educated.
Nothing bad to say to you Gene but I listen to music with my ears! My Brain is not stupid and a trickster! Measure your heart out buddy but my ears hear perfect and I hear the change in ALL CABLES and its not my BRAIN its perfect too!!! Your not the final word in this and the GOD of sound... Cables are not SNAKE OIL just some prices are! Best wishes from a guy with great hearing experience and a sound mind...Some things Science and Machines can't explain / well lots of things really and you need to ask GOD!
That's great. Enjoy and preserve your good hearing and placebo or not, if you perceive a difference, run with it and enjoy. God bless.
How did Paul determine that ? a fat cheque from Audioquest LOL
Hi Gene well done 👍 you are right on. I really going to listen 👂 to them ? Not, I lose respect for Paul when he comes out wit this sort of BS
As someone who seeks the best from both Home and Car audio, I must agree with you Gene! Car audio has its own unique obstacles to overcome. Years ago when I first started, I learned early on about cable quality in cars. I've been using RG6 as interconnects and ALL the noise is gone. A dear friend of mine loves his AudioQuest junk. I swapped in a pair to test with just for shits and giggles in my last build and all the issues of using cheap Walmart interconnects came back, alternator whine, spark noise, etc. Now I only use RG6 in my house as well. If it's good enough for automotive use, it's good enough for my home!
I once solved a problem I created with cheap EQ/Amplifiers. I had the Alternator whining noise. I tried filters and nothing worked.
Finally I learned the importance of a great close common ground. I took the ground wires of the head and EQ amps grounds to a common thick wire with as little distance between them. I grounded those to chassis. It made a world of difference. The power wire was RG59U coming straight from the battery and switched on by a relay.
before you did this vid i already owned the audioquest " water" cable.ive now removed the batteries from the 2 sets i have in my system. i think the word " synergy " is the wrong word to use in hifi. i agree with you ,i dont look at purchasing cables to have " synergy " personally for me its to make it look good and not to pick up interference etc. it would be great Gene if you would please measure the bhk appliances just to see exactly what ive purchased according to your side of the this past time.. also in cables from a hifi angle,i dont think it really matters how they measure ,its all to do with how they sound. if i had the worst cable in the world according to measurements but sounded the best cable ever ,then id buy it. i wouldnt buy a cable just because it measures well. it comes down to the fact that theres 2 ways of looking at all of this. no side is wrong. you guys are all correct in your arguments.
I have watched videos with Paul from PS Audio, and the way he interacts with people that disagree in the comments is less than professional. It is the reaction of someone that is not happy that their biases are being challenged. Audioquest is a snake oil purveyor, and PS Audio is happy to ally with them. I wouldn't touch a product from either company. Synergistic Research is in the same class of huckster.
I have little experience with Paul on the forums. I was just going off the personality he projects in his videos.
Why the heck does it bother others when people spend their money on what they want? If they hear the difference, that’s all that matters. If I like Bose, why are others bothered by it? I think that speakers standing 6 ft tall inside an average home is silly, should I be “Butt hurt” by this? The only person that has to like your shit is you! When I purchased my last set of speakers, I love the sound and did not look at measurements.
You are correct Ian. Only in the world of audio does this happen.
All you have to do is read most of these snarky, silly comments here.
If that $10,000 dollar speaker cable (that these commenters cry and laugh about.) was on sale for $10.00 dollars most of these people here would rush out to purchase. Never mind the wild Snake Oil claims the manufacture made.
Every time Gene says Wayne Kerr Analyser, the Brits in the audience hear something else and it will always be funny...
HA HA HA been keeping this one in my pocket for a while LOL
Wayne Kerr began as the Wayne Kerr Research Laboratories in London in 1946... They've been playing this double entendre for decades!
A sane man in an insane world of audiophiles with more money then sense
Henry Ott's book has been one of my favorite reference books since decades! Thank you for keep sharing rationality and truth.
Totally agree with this one. I have had this discussion at my hifi dealer several times. I tell them that in the circuit the goal should be that the cables do not contribute to the circuit for resistance or capacitance - in other words disappear in a thevenin equivalent circuit so that they do not influence the sound. As soon as the speaker cables begin to be a contributing part of the circuit you are now listening to something other than the way your speakers are designed to sound. I hate being told that there are some things we can hear but can't measure. We have been characterizing and measuring audio for longer than almost anything else. We know how to do it, and our instruments are much more sensitive, accurate, and repeatable than the human ear.
Audiophiles always start off by telling you how much their equipment $cost$ before showing them. I watch several of them and enjoy their content but it's always this my $260,000 Focal Grande Utopia EM EVO speakers. So I know why they would want to pay for cables that cost what I paid for my Truck. They should just leave the Price Tag on all their equipment when they show them ,so it would save them a lot of time telling you how much their stuff cost.
Absolutely true Gene . Paul also claims that we can't measure everything we hear in cables. As you said cables should not act as a tone control.
So how else do you tone control if the amp has no tone controls. You have to use cables to do it.
@@aussie8114 nice one 😂
Oh and Audioquest are the kings of audio BS for sure!
Well said! Agree 100%.
I'm a huge huge fan of you Dr. Sean and also Dr. Floyd toole. I read all your articles and watch all your educational videos about headphones and loudspeakers measurements.
😊For AudioQuest SureGrip500 vs SureGrip1000 all buyer had Questing too. May i know How Pure is the Copper ! & is it Pure copper or Purple copper 99% or more !! Spec Spec pls ! Is it Above 99% copper & 0.7% of Beryllium or just Beryllium M25 Alloy or Beryllium 25 or Beryllium 165 or !😊 & Whats Is Purple vs Red copper means?
Save your time, let those people spend money on whatever they want…the more they spend, the happier they are, let it be!
Yeah it's quite literally just a waste of time and energy, people will do what they want, spend their money how they want, there's absolutely no reason to question it.
Paul thinks he can hear fuses too! :-D
no one's got a swell cleft in his chin like gaston.
Looking good Gene. Looking healthy as well. Keep up the good fight against audiofoolery.
Spoken like a true engineer. I know for a fact you have never tuned a piano, as you would understand that in some cases things can be perfect and turn out absolutely horrible. I once thought as you so I do understand but there are some things that are a synergistic mix in life lol.
I've played piano almost my entire life and been around many acoustic pianos and guitars as I have a family of musicians. Your argument in a red herring and bears no similarities to how a cable interacts with electronics.
@@Audioholics In as much as it is nonsequiter to the electronics, yes; but I stated it to illustrate that the math can fail. In the case of AudioQuest Cable the difference in my system was about 20db on connectors and I had to drop my sub in half. My speaker wire is quad spool at $5/ft so I get it.
AudioQuest does make some nice looking cables! I can't say that I would spend the money on them, but they are pretty!
Steve Guttenberg should see this video
The measurement is your ears!
Yeah, I can tell the distance of different stars with my eyes.
Cabal97 Only if you’re completely deluded. Your ears (everyone’s) are highly sensitive instruments connected to a highly subjective brain. You hear, on any given day, exactly what you want to hear. Hence, technical measurement.
Are you kidding me? Audiophile cables makes a huge difference!
In your wallet that is! I am glad to see you are doing better!
I guess you and I are on the same planet .
Don't forget about the $1,000 power cord plugged into the $50 receptacle.
ThunderStruckCoach plugged into a $2 iec connector lol
I think your strongest argument is your logical argument you started with. The measurement argument definitely is there, however I would argue that you should also offer to do a blind listen. And see if when cables are swapped you do or do not hear something. I trust that you would do it fairly honestly. Because I think their claim is even though they can’t measure it they hear it. OK I’m not sold on that, however I’m not dismissing it out of hand either. Just a thought. Love your presentations
Paul Roscelli so here is the thing. Human testing is pretty weak and insensitive all in all. We can measure things far finer electrically than we can hear.
So this measurement argument has a problem. What I refer to as a difference without a difference. The argument that we measure the wrong things can sometimes be true. But...a transfer function is a complete set of information that fully characterized everything in a system. If a cable makes any audible difference it must change the transfer function. It’s impossible for that not to be true.
In fact, that change in the transfer function will also contain many differences that are likely not audible. Truth be told, cables will very likely produce different transfer functions. That’s where these listening tests come in. Some reliably they can’t help us suss our where a difference exists that is also audible. But it’s always worth remembering, these tests don’t necessarily prove something isn’t audible. They simply fail to prove there is a difference. We then rely on repeating of the tests and other tests to triangulate the results and draw stronger conclusions.
I agree with you about the “filter effect” cables have on gear. I’ve seen audiophiles claim that they liked a $2k cable better than a particular $10k cable. And I can’t explain that. The placebo effect would naturally push the $10k cable to the top of the list. I asked you a question on your “power cable debunking” video about if we know what to test for when it comes to things like cables. It was a really good question I won’t repeat the whole question here (it was eloquently written) . I hope you read that question and give it some thought. But you own that kimber cable and it measures better than your 10g. Can you actually hear any difference between the two? It seems silly that such a small difference would be audible. Just curious if you can hear a difference?
I too use high end cables mainly for aesthetic reasons, but also because they're decent quality cable relative to the free ones that come with the equipment .. my brand of choice is Gutwire from Canada, and for about $500-$1000 you get a VERY top notch cable, but I don't trust when PS Audio says they're seeing a synergy, its just marketing which is something Paul is very good at I've learned.
I say keep it up!! All this Money spent on Snake Oil Cables could be spent on better Speakers or Amps. Keep up the good work!!!
Dear Gene....you made my day. These snake oil guru's must hate you! Thank you for standing up!!!
Incidently, I have an E.A.R 518 amp that was designed and built by Tim de Paravicini himself.
My ofc Amazon speaker wires have amazing synergy with my elac ubr62s, with the white casing giving the tweeters a brighter tone 😂
What a load of rubbish. The companies that measure cables, do not create a good sounding cable, and it is a trick to throw you off so you do not notice the bad quality materials that are inside the cable.
You do not need to know the measurements, you only need the same brand/model or type of sound that matches the equipment. The mechanics behind it all will not tell you if it sounds good or not and definetely not numbers, it will only act as an indicator in a much larger equation. Sounds like indirect promo.
People also have to understand that depending on what type of quality cable you are going after, then there are different ways of approaching the game. So the companies that generally measure these things, are generally into a cable sound that is more controlled/mechanical/hifi in sound and meant for the lower end hifi gear. The top cables in the world are basically more simple built, with better quality parts and do not have cheap materials to manipulate the sound. That is why Tara Labs, Kondo, Audio Note make some of the best cables. As soon as you get into companies that measure cables like MIT, then immediately you are going for the "sound data" effect, where you like Mcintosh audio take the music hostage. Yeah it works at a lower level doing som certain things that most people like in the start. But the brain does after a while recognize that the music is held hostage to promote certain effect. So it's all relative compared to what level high end game you are playing. Conclusion: measurements do not in general indicate how good something is, it only has a tendency of revealing linearity and consistency on a mechanic level not on a musical level.
So try everything and make up your own mind.
I would like you to talk about network switches for audio, things like jitter, and how buffers are useless
I thought he was going to start with........ "Does Selena Gomez control my life?....YES YES, YES she does!"
Gene, have been listening to you for years. Thanks for all you do, but I wanted to make a comment. I LOVED your mention of Hitchens Razor!!! RIP Christopher.
What about a shout-out between the belden 5t00up and the super expensive blue jeans cable iconoclast?
😊AudioQuest is still the King of All Kings Cable😊 & they way way too overpriced & overcharge u also
20 feet of Mogami balanced gold from B&H to the subwoofer, Canare L-4E6S balanced interconnects from Blue Jeans Cable and three 10ft Canare 4S11 Star Quad speaker wire with locking bananas also from B&H. Surrounds hooked up with Belden 12 guage from Blue Jeans. No Synergy! Original signal in... original signal out. All cable is used in recording studios.
28/03/2024.Have enjoyed your information very much.I do use the Kimber 8tc and the cables that came with my Hegel H390/Hegel Viking.
I find it strange that a £20,000 amp is useless unless I use some £5,000 speaker cables and some £3000 interconnects and a £2000 power cable. On and don’t forget the mains filter, that should already be done inside the amp. Smell funny to me.💩
Follow IACS, fing brass connectors is the root of the problem with all hifi components. Tellurium copper is the solution.
great video Gene!!!! I agree!
I use Mogami and Canare cables nothing fancy just great quality cables with good shielding and no fancy crap, reasonable price and studio grade performance!
same cables used at the studio I had labs in at college haha go figure
haha cant believe what people believe
I do like to respond to snake oil evangelists with this:
You will never truly experience audio nirvana until listening using my patented, Audiophile quality, Cash Pyre.
No batteries or wires are needed but, It requires a stack of cash for operation.
You cannot use any fake money because the sound waves will know the difference.
The sound waves will then become angry, distort and ruin your hearing out of spite.
There is No way in H, any Cable is worth the exorbitantly NUTZ CRAZY PRICES some of these company's charge !
A good Quality Stranded Copper Shielded cable with Quality Terminating is all thats Needed! But as long as there are Audiophile people willing to pay the Price those Companies will gladly take the Cash, because you know tat these Companies that Make the big Bucks are fully aware of what they are selling, if the Audiophile would Just admit they want Beautiful Cables than so be it!
Double Blind Listening Tests are the Only Real Test. I Love Equalizers so I dont give one C about a cable changing squat in the supposed sound qualities because it is So Negligible by all Technical Testing ever posted by Reputable sources. Ling Live Equalizers, the Only way to get the Sound to what you Enjoy!
PS Audio "Sprout100" $700.... 100 watts per channel, both channels driven 0.01% (1W, 1KHz into 4Ω).....
Notice that they don't even give the Sprouts specs following FTC guidelines of 20hz-20khz into 8ohms www.psaudio.com/products/sprout100-integrated-amplifier/#tab-specs
Gene, why don’t you just buy a few Audioquest cables or other brands, or even borrow some, to see how they measure? I’m sure you’ve got plenty of people who’d be willing to lend you their cables. I’d really like to see how cables like that really test out, and I’m not saying that to be antagonist either.
Sure submit samples and I'll measure. I don't spend money on audio jewelry.
Audioholics
Haha! See, I don’t believe in it either, as I use Canare 4S11 speaker cable, so I can’t submit a thing and understand. I just mean, why won’t someone who believes in cables and owns numerous pairs, send one to you for testing. In all this time, no one has offered to send you a “High end audiophile” cable? I’ve watched tons of your vids, and I can’t remember it happening.
@@NickP333 True and 4S11 is all you need in a speaker cable.
Awesome video I agree 100% with you: above a certain price point audiophile cable are totally snake oil. I did a blind test once for speaker cables with very good equipment at an audiophile store many years ago: I could tell the difference between a 1€/m cable and a 50€/m cable but not between a 50€/m and a 1000€/m cable. The equipment for testing was not at the very top high end but very good, with Rogers LS3/5a speakers and I think an Acoustic Research pre with 2 high end monoblocks I don't remember which... Nobody in the room except for the store owner could tell the difference between the 50€/m cable and the fancy 1000€/m cable
Well.... I'm NO AUDIOPHILE OR CLAIM TO BE ONE by any means, but I tried a cheap Walmart ANN BRAND USB printer cable and a audio quest black USB cable to hook up my computer to my PEACHTREE M25 computer speakers and I honestly could tell a difference. Night and Day? No, not really. But I take the time to actually LISTEN 👂 to my music and I could hear better tones and clarity. Just saying.
Great video Gene, much appreciated ! In answer to your question, I don't believe in the synergy claim, it is just more marketing crap. Like most audio marketing, it is based on subjective bullshit, and that's o.k. if you like the products and want to spend your money on it, but I find it to be complete bullshit, and honestly, pretty disengenuous that these companies make claims without providing any objective proof to back up their claims. They're out for the sale, and hey, synergy sounds like good marketing. If they've tested products to be able to make the claims they make, great, show us the measurement results, or show us before and after measurements for the claimed improvements, but they don't and personally I dismiss such subjective claims as the bullshit that it is. Thanks again for the great videos, keep'm coming.
The only important synergy is: source-amplifier-speakers, interconnects up to 100-150 euros/usd, speaker cables 3-10 euros/usd per meter is all you need
If you spend xxxx of your currency on cables, your brain has to find a justification for it.....and for your wife too 🙃
I bought high quality bulk cable and terminations and made my own speaker cables. They are excellent. At my age, I'd bet they sound the same to me as lamp cord, though. Thanks for cutting through the BS, Gene!
So here's my experience take it for what it's worth. I like to think I'm very.. factual, logical etc.. There's plenty of stuff that Paul says that I lawl @ but I try to keep an open mind and I'll try something to see for myself what I think (within reason). I have heard a difference swapping interconnects. It wasn't a huge difference but there was a tonal difference. I was swapping the cables for looks and here's where I think there's some validity to my statement, I preferred the cheaper set. I was kind of like.. this can't be, it doesn't make sense.. on paper I shouldn't have heard a difference but I clearly did. I even measured each conductor's resistance and they all measured similarly.
I guess I'm just saying, maybe some aspects can't be measured? Do I think people should be concerned about what speaker cable they buy? No, but I also have to tell my truth. There's been plenty of other things I've tried where I didn't hear anything at all and measurements would suggest I should have.
Car Audio Inc Bottom line= “your hearing cannot measure”.
If customers want fancy cables at high prices then the industry can't be blamed for providing them.
I don't think it's right to ignore listening tests or measurements tests, you need to do both, but there are strengths and weaknesses to both. Obviously listening tests we can fall victim to the placebo effect or be biased like you said, so blind tests are required here. As for measurements, I've heard a few people say that they only get you so far. Think of amplifiers for example, some poorly measuring amplifiers still sound good to the ear, measurements mean absolutely nothing if you like how it sounds. If you're happy with it, then that's a good thing. There's also the fact that when it comes to listening, we simply have absolutely no word of power to say someone is right or wrong when they have different ears to us. It's kind of like religion, either believe it or don't, but there's never going to be a justifiable reason to argue about it, only to discuss it in a civil way.
If you spend $100,000 on a speaker, a $10.000 Cable is nothing, cause the look is more important ! However. If you buy a $5000 speakers , It make no sense to spend even $1000 on a cable! Our Ears will never match the Meters , but our eyes and Feeling matters! As long as you are happy and able to afford it , and most importantly you feels good about your purchase....who cares. lets paly some music!
Whilst I am sure some people don't like to have their "dreams crushed", as one commenter put it, honestly, the science and measurements-based approach actually makes me more happy with my system. If you can't measure it, I can't hear it, therefore it's not necessary to spend a lot of money on fancy cables, amplifiers etc at the hope of hearing a difference, as long as they perform the job they're supposed to, and the measurements back that up, then I sure as hell won't ACTUALLY hear anything (of course I might convince myself I can, but my ears and brain are not trustworthy!)
I once priced out the cost of Norhost's Odin line of interconnects...just for my stereo system. Disc Player to Pre-Amp to Power Amp to Speakers (but not the power cord). My cost would have been $137,000.00. Whoa!? Yet there are people with too much money and too little knowledge of science that will buy them.
Actually, and I’ve said this before to friends and forums, and with science on my side, it is not that I cannot hear the difference, I do not believe there is a positive difference to be heard once basic, minimum cable requirements are met (gage/length). And even if there were a "difference" who determines whether it is "better" or "worse?" Just hearing a "difference" is moot. I can cup my hands behind my ears and hear a difference. I can close the drapes and hear a difference. I can toe in my speakers and hear a difference. I can change the EQ and hear a difference. Some people WANT an "improvement" so badly they will do really, really (to me) dumb things. A fellow on Audiogon paid $225,000 each for a couple speakers and then proceeded to change out the internal wiring. What? He researched what he thought were the best speakers on the planet and decided that the manufacturer was not smart enough to include appropriate crossover wiring? And, of course, once changed out, he said the difference was stunning! Same audio placebo effect and expectation bias....that is the ONLY SCIENCE involved in expensive cables/interconnects/power cords.....and crossover wiring.