I love how hard you crush people's hopes and dreams, no remorse. Some of this fantasy stuff is fun to believe and audio jewelry is beautiful, but it's so important to have someone like you bringing everyone back to reality. Let's make real improvements rather than spending so much time and resources on nonsense. Keep up the great work!
I learned my most important lesson about placebo effect when I adjusted a tone control on a console several times until it sounded perfect only to realize that I had it bypassed.
Sup Godfather of Home Theater, Gene Corleone aka Don Dellasala. I think you were fair in this one. Constructive in your criticism. Tough to argue with science. I could sell a $#!∆ ton of high end cables just by saying they look awesome, they feel awesome, they're expensive and therefore exclusive. No unproven claims there. And throw a hot chick in for good measure. $$$$!
I love this channel and Paul's as well - and, I think that Paul might even secretly agree with you to an extent. But he's a manufacture that has to "play nice" with other manufactures in the space. As long as cable manufactures spend huge money advertising in stereo related print and internet ads, I doubt manufacturers and even many reviewers, will call them out for being snake oil. It's one of many issues in the industry on a whole.
PS Audio now sells audioquest cables so of course Paul is going to talk them up in hopes of increased sales when someone buys an amp they can sell expensive power cords ,interconnects and speaker wire all at the same time. One thing I find particularly amusing is they now sell and use Audioquest Dragon power cords on the INPUT and output of their Power Plant regenerators ,now since the Power plant makes it's own clean power regardless of input why use expensive inputs.
@Mr Do I agree for 192Khz... but if you can't see the difference between 4K and 1080P contents, you need to change your glasses. PS: there's no 16b/44Khz-only DACs anymore....
@@vintageflanker7096 Cd's are 16 bit 44.1 khz so 24 bit etc DACs is meaningless and 4k is stupid! If you have at minimum a 55 inch screen and sit 3 feet from it you will notice a diff, otherwise you won't. I couldn't give 2 craps about 4k.
Paul and his absurd cable nonsense turned me off to his channel. He went from a nice ole guy to a charlatan the first time I heard him go down that road. There's no way he truly believes that drivel. I still peak over there because some topics are interesting in other areas, but I'm calloused and suspicious of his opinions.
I don't know but following his ideas with subwoofers made a huge difference to m y system and I only use a Onkyo AVR ua-cam.com/video/5AoiS_e8wBA/v-deo.html
I personally like the guy and the channel. I think he is entertaining and smart. He isn't an idiot that is for sure. Like you though I don't agree with everything he says. Like power cables and speaker wires and the likes. Then again I don't really believe in god either, but I am not going to hate those that do.
I'm really glad you called Paul out on his bs. Lying about your product is a fast way to sink your company. I watched Paul's videos until he made the one about Audioquest cables and how they made his system soooo much better. The problem was that he was talking about power cables going into his own Power Stream power conditioners that cost $10,000 each! Shouldn't a $10k power conditioner already have amazing power cables on it? And if the $7k cables fix everything then why do I need a $10k power conditioner? I was really interested in his products until he lied. I'll be looking elsewhere for my new DAC when I buy it!
i mean. kinda silly to think he's *lying* about it, when his own company makes a competing product. wrong, sure, but if he was lying surely it'd be in the other direction.
wober777 At least Paul has a company making great sounding audio gear, I think he knows what he is talking about. Go read the article Gene posted. Maybe you guys should go on a road trip to Colorado to meet and listen and then make a judgment.
I really enjoyed Paul's videos, and had considered buying PS Audio products until I got the email announcing the PS Audio line of cables made by AudioQuest. It was really disappointing and I lost a lot of respect for him and the company.
I remember a review of the Technics Reference Series System where the reviewer thought the system was not sounding great until he switched the Ethernet cables that send a digital signal from the preamp to the amp to some fancy cable ethernet cables. This reviewer "discovered" how these magic cables changed the data stream from the digital signal and made it sound like magic. I stop reading that magazine that day. It was The Absolute Sound BTW
If anyone isn't fully convinced why data cables (and hard drives) can't change the sound, imagine you're transferring a file instead. If there were differences, the file would be full of errors. Executables simply wouldn't run. Websites wouldn't load. It would be useless.
It can happen but not because some esotherical reasons : I had troubles with a server farm which were showing intermitency. The reason: cable quality (the wires weren't holding in place after patched) and the technical aid (student) didn't patch correctly the cables. It was around 20 yr ago.
@@irisfailsafe there are cable comparisons made by musicians to check how these can modify the sound. Check this UA-cam video (Spanish): ua-cam.com/video/mw6Ja1o0mzE/v-deo.html
What's wrong with Chinese made cables?? Raw material and literally everything is made in that place. Also alot of aq cables are made in USA high end ones.
Stanny1 Shows he’s a successful businessman, no different than restaurant owners that serve $500 entrees or someone selling $200 jeans with rips in the knees. No one HAS to buy their goods, yet people do.
When I sold Audioquest us salesmen got 75% off retail. We also got points for all the Audioquest we sold. I have AQ cables everywhere in my house. I would never in a million years buy those cables at retail. Also met Bill Lowe of AQ once. He was an interesting guy.
As someone who seeks the best from both Home and Car audio, I must agree with you Gene! Car audio has its own unique obstacles to overcome. Years ago when I first started, I learned early on about cable quality in cars. I've been using RG6 as interconnects and ALL the noise is gone. A dear friend of mine loves his AudioQuest junk. I swapped in a pair to test with just for shits and giggles in my last build and all the issues of using cheap Walmart interconnects came back, alternator whine, spark noise, etc. Now I only use RG6 in my house as well. If it's good enough for automotive use, it's good enough for my home!
I once solved a problem I created with cheap EQ/Amplifiers. I had the Alternator whining noise. I tried filters and nothing worked. Finally I learned the importance of a great close common ground. I took the ground wires of the head and EQ amps grounds to a common thick wire with as little distance between them. I grounded those to chassis. It made a world of difference. The power wire was RG59U coming straight from the battery and switched on by a relay.
Gene is one of the few people that review products and various claims made by the sales side of the audio business with an eye towards the consumers best interest so God bless him for that. In this case I'd love to see if Gene could get the owners at Blue Jean Cables to weigh in on this, not to bash their competition, but just to offer their opinions on various types of cables and how they manufacture and sell very reasonably priced interconnects.
If i send you my cable, that i designed, will you skip measurements and go straight to sound validation? If you hear a decent difference, will you advertice it on your channel and become a dealer? It will be a 50-50 after cost...
Measurements also cause placebo effects, due to preconditioned information. Why would you not rely on your ears when it comes to audio? Where do you draw the line? Can you hear your measurements, or is it just the placebo you're hearing?
I've done a/b blind testing with expensive and cheap cables and really nobody could consistently tell a difference. Even had spliced together speaker wire at times. Cables and wire are the biggest crock of b/s in the consumer market.
Totally agree with this one. I have had this discussion at my hifi dealer several times. I tell them that in the circuit the goal should be that the cables do not contribute to the circuit for resistance or capacitance - in other words disappear in a thevenin equivalent circuit so that they do not influence the sound. As soon as the speaker cables begin to be a contributing part of the circuit you are now listening to something other than the way your speakers are designed to sound. I hate being told that there are some things we can hear but can't measure. We have been characterizing and measuring audio for longer than almost anything else. We know how to do it, and our instruments are much more sensitive, accurate, and repeatable than the human ear.
I agree with you about the “filter effect” cables have on gear. I’ve seen audiophiles claim that they liked a $2k cable better than a particular $10k cable. And I can’t explain that. The placebo effect would naturally push the $10k cable to the top of the list. I asked you a question on your “power cable debunking” video about if we know what to test for when it comes to things like cables. It was a really good question I won’t repeat the whole question here (it was eloquently written) . I hope you read that question and give it some thought. But you own that kimber cable and it measures better than your 10g. Can you actually hear any difference between the two? It seems silly that such a small difference would be audible. Just curious if you can hear a difference?
What analog XLR interconnect balanced cables do you recommend? I don't see Mogami offering these, unless you are using their microphone cables. Is that what you use and show in this video?
Not sure if you've touched on this, but recently I saw a PS Audio video about a braided power cable making a night and day difference. Building amps myself, I understand how twisted pairs can be a benefit in certain parts of an amp, but I'm not sure the last few feet of power cable before you plug into an amp will matter? The cable running from your breaker box to all of your lights, receptacles, and so on are parallel conductors; not twisted. Thoughts?
Gene, have been listening to you for years. Thanks for all you do, but I wanted to make a comment. I LOVED your mention of Hitchens Razor!!! RIP Christopher.
I’m in the middle of building my ultimate system. I can’t tell you how confusing this subject is. It’s probably the most disputed subject in audio.please tell me a brand you would recommend so I don’t get ripped off. I believe I saw a video of you praising kimber cables. I can only do this once in a lifetime. Please help. Thanks for your help 🙏🙏🙏🙏
I think mogami 2549 is ok. The 2534 is quad conductors cable，you dont need to use it because of short distance. mogmai 2571 I dont recommand，because this cable made for special purpose (high flexibility)
Hey Gene, I just watched an old video of Dillons audio in California. Did you ever take him up on his challenge? Is so what did you find? Thanks for your time.
Objectively what you want is a flat SPL output from 20-20khz *and* a flat phase response. If you can measure that (with a calibrated microphone) you pretty much have the original sound as it was recorded. Ok you need a DSP to do that but that's maybe a few hundred dollars. But that begs the question - if you can achieve that with a $500 system (amp+speakers+sub) then is there any point is spending more?
before you did this vid i already owned the audioquest " water" cable.ive now removed the batteries from the 2 sets i have in my system. i think the word " synergy " is the wrong word to use in hifi. i agree with you ,i dont look at purchasing cables to have " synergy " personally for me its to make it look good and not to pick up interference etc. it would be great Gene if you would please measure the bhk appliances just to see exactly what ive purchased according to your side of the this past time.. also in cables from a hifi angle,i dont think it really matters how they measure ,its all to do with how they sound. if i had the worst cable in the world according to measurements but sounded the best cable ever ,then id buy it. i wouldnt buy a cable just because it measures well. it comes down to the fact that theres 2 ways of looking at all of this. no side is wrong. you guys are all correct in your arguments.
So glad to have you in this industry, fighting the good fight for common sense and critical thinking. I love making DIY Canare LV-61S or Belden 1694F cables--high quality and no-nonsense. And then for audio jewelry, I'll sometimes get some pretty Techflex, but that's where the exotics end. :) Hope all is well with you. Keep doing what you're doing! :)
Sure. But whatever he do that won't solve the problem. Their cables are most probably audibly transparent. Still, Audiophools will claim hear night and day differences all the same.
@Mr Do Just look at anti-vaxxing. One doctor lied and made a false claim that vaccinations caused autism. Within the next 3 years Europe saw outbreaks. They caught on and started vaxxing again and it dropped back down. Now in America it resurfaced and look at our outbreaks. Evidence shows the doctor was wrong and that he based if off a few kids and changed the numbers to favor his theory. Does that stop people from believing vaccinations cause autism??? NOPE. Some people are just dumb and will believe myths in the face of evidence. It's literally no different here.
I own some Audioquest Forest interconnect, which costs $35 or so and their more expensive model, which was $50. Is it high-end enough for snake oil debunking experiment?
😊For AudioQuest SureGrip500 vs SureGrip1000 all buyer had Questing too. May i know How Pure is the Copper ! & is it Pure copper or Purple copper 99% or more !! Spec Spec pls ! Is it Above 99% copper & 0.7% of Beryllium or just Beryllium M25 Alloy or Beryllium 25 or Beryllium 165 or !😊 & Whats Is Purple vs Red copper means?
Gene I have Kimber cable 8tc just for the fun of it and comparing it to regular 10 gauge i only notice a slight change in sound listening around 0db on the receiver which is really loud. I am wondering on Chinese cables from eBay and Ali Express they sell the very same exact that looks like Kimber cable using 16-24 threads for much cheaper.
Thang I’ve actually bought some of these to see what they are. You have to be careful. Often very crappy connectors and the cable gauge was less than advertised. In one case I found a cable using aluminum instead of copper. I also found a scenario where the cable had a very thin strand with a lot of filler. It’s not that there are no good chinese cables, but if you aren’t sure what you are getting, it can be a bit Wild West. I also got some very good raw cable stock from a chinese supplier at a very good price.
@@PoesAcoustics alot of cables put filler even u.s made ones it's for rca . But alot of Chinese ones that are expensive look and see made very high quality. Even u.s cable people who custom make they own they look exactly like the Chinese ones part for part.
Thank you Gene. You will always be a standard barer for me. I have some electronics and communications background. I too loathe the application of RF frequency theory to the audio spectrum. I do have a question if you don't mind. I promise this one, while off the topic of audio, it has RF relevance. I used Cable modem for ISP service. I believe the Home, being 1984 construction is RG59U and the feed outside is RG6. My ISP service is a theoretical 1200 Mbps. I have considered coupling at the source and bring in an additional RG6 cable for speed tests. My highest test speed was 1192 Mbps. I think this likely verifies that my older Coaxial spec isn't hurting me. Would that match your thoughts on this ? It's rare I get that great of a test speed but it is my max on a shared bandwidth with my neighborhood.
I'm surprised you're getting 1Gbps speed from RG59U. Check your upload speed as well. RG6 has superior BW especially for longer runs. However, if you're getting those kinds of speeds, why fix something that isn't broken?
@@Audioholics I would typically get 945 down on a good day but that was from a test from a PC on the other side of the router. Router only has a 2.5 ethernet to the 2.5 on the cable modem. The rest are 1G LAN. The best numbers I got was with dual teamed Ethernet on that 1g LAN. I would typically get 945 Mbps at best. The best number was direct from the router down 1192 Mbps up 44.65 Mbps It's 1984 it's gotta be RG59 U right ??
Snake oil question... Are power conditioners snake oil... do they actually protect gear from lightning strikes and do power conditioners provide filtering that provides an audible difference or a measurable difference? Please provide this video with actual tests and test results.
I’ve watched a few of your videos now, great info and well presented. I do have a couple of questions though. You heavily rely on the audio precision analyser and your own knowledge to debunk these claims, however, have you ever considered that what people claim they can hear is something that is outside of your own measuring capabilities? I’ve noticed whenever you talk about “cables make a difference” you never actually re create the scenario of which the “audiophile” claims to have heard these differences and actually measure sound coming from the speakers in a stereo playback setting. Is there such a piece of equipment that can measure intricate details of audio playback like soundstage and imaging, tone and texture etc? This is not a cocky attempt to bash your theories, I’m genuinely curious to know if you have considered these things and if not, why? Thanks Gene, another great video 👍🏻
@russellparker4568 I actually measured the electrical and acoustical responses at the speaker with generic 10awg zip cord and expensive exotics cables and the differences were negligible (0.1 to 0.001dB) which is indecenible to the ear and we'll within the realm of variances caused by the measurements themselves. You can move your head a few inches or your couch and yield acoustical differences of several dB or more by comparison.
Tho to a small degree I do use some interconnects for tone. After all is said and done with my gear it gives just a slight tweek to put it a little more to my liking. I don't use hi end cables, just a touch above entry Transparent. I found the networked cable sounded a touch smoother on the top end than the same level of say a Tara cable, but really almost imperceivable.
No, I don't get tired of these sorts of videos on what works, and what does a bit of difference, and benefit; and what factors don't do anything. Thumbs up easily. You tell it as it is in the real world.
Does it make sense to buy expensive headphone cables ? I have spent thousands of $$$ on "pure silver" headphone cables but I haven't noticed any sound difference from stock cables. How are they supposed to sound different?
Gene ... you are incorrect. Totally incorrect. The best component to use with max effect are still cable lifters. All of a sudden the system will sound exactly like the performers are in front of you. Don’t waste money on cables. Get cable lifters. 😂🤣
What about power strips with filters? Snake oil or not? I can't hear any difference in cables but I don't know why, but I hear a difference in my new power strip with filters for 99$!
I am myself an electrical engineer by profession...and the audiophil for some 40+ Years... Great observation...and the previous one about speaker cables as well. Congretulation!
Is it possible when some people claim to hear a difference in cables what they are hearing is the effects of either too high capacitance or inductance with their expensive cables as Gene has said some exotic cables actually measure poorly compared to Belden 10 AWG wire.
I've seen a ton of videos about speaker cables and I think Mr. Gene Dellasala knows what he is saying. I bought recently audio cable KnuKonceptz 10 Gauge with Nakamichi screw lock banana plugs and I am quite happy with the sound. I hope I won't regret it after few years. Thank you Mr. Gene for sharing your knowlege.
Over at AudioScienceReview Amir debunked a $2,300 set of AudioQuest cables. No special performance and failed when tested for shielding. If they're willing to rip people off with a BS $2,300 cable what won't they do.
Gene great video, this topic is never tiring, i have a question, under what circumstances can a cable be made to act like a tone control ? If we add more capacitance or inductance to a cable on purpose will that change the tone or sound in any way ? Also do different materials used to make a cable make any difference in measurements silver vs ofc copper ?
Sanjay Salariya the resistance, inductance, and capacitance of a cable acts as an RLC filter. That is how it behaves like a tone control. I recently did some modeling of this for Gene with a reactive load and I had to vary the values substantially to actually see a big change in the performance. Which really supports the notion that the difference the cable makes is too minuscule to matter. Further, no reason to believe an expensive cable would be any better in this regard. For the experiment I plugged in actual numbers Gene measured of real cables. The cables that did the best were often the run of the mill cheap cables. The ones that did the worst were often expensive exotic cables. Though in reality, within the audio spectrum, we are talking like 1/5 of a dB or less in variation. Very little. I had to put in crazy values to show something approaching .5 dB or more.
I'm all about measurements. Because with measurements, sure you can argue, was it measured correctly, but other than that, measurements are measurements. At some point the excuses go away. That's the problem with abx tests. Audiophiles tend to not want to abx their setups, because they'll claim there's some special property about their unit, its burn in, its cable synergy, the fact that it must be kept on for hours before its ready to play from off, no matter the time off, etc., etc., etc. It's always some excuse, because I think deep down, there's an element of narcissism there. They tell themselves they believe these things because they're intelligent audiophiles, they've tested this $300 1ft usb cable and it's truly awe-inspiring the difference it makes. It's impossible for some of these people to put their egos, and themselves, aside for a moment and talk about science, i.e. testable hypotheses.
Dear Gene....you made my day. These snake oil guru's must hate you! Thank you for standing up!!! Incidently, I have an E.A.R 518 amp that was designed and built by Tim de Paravicini himself.
I find the Hi end audio industry, similar to other luxury fields, full of secrecy and hyperbole claims. A lot of what the consumer pays for is not necessary to put it kindly. There is this implied exclusivity that is conveyed by brands, retailers, stores, reps. Cable Synergy to me is part of that. “You are not really getting the expected result of the component without also including this expensive snake oil in your purchase”. That is what it would take to enter the club. My personal interest is the sound. I don’t care about the exotic wood, the jewelry style cables, luxurious expenses. I have found your channel to be exactly what I want to hear. I would be more interested in reviews of components that measure well but are more geared towards the regular guy with interest in quality audio. Speakers of a more modest size (less than 7ft tall 😅), subwoofers that can be moved by a single person, amps that cost less than a car and systems that can be put together by a family guy with a regular pay check. Still I enjoy your content and reviewing all the equipment I will not ever buy.
Well so called "precise measurements" consist of one sine wave? How about putting through multiple frequencies at the same time very complex signal like music is? Can that be measured? Also how about "dynamic contrast" measurement? Like put in signal at -60db and then 0db signal and do a comparison between cables and equipment, that if the equipment is capable of that accurate distance
It doesn't matter if you use sinewaves or complex tones. The test signal is the same for ALL tests to show direct differences. Wire cannot produce non-linear distortion. The burden of proof resides on the person(s) making a claim otherwise.
@@Audioholics well i totally get ur point and i agree with u, but is not what i hear, for some reason in some cases there is such a difference! Well anyway, did anyone try to measure different cables in a system? Connected and measured while in a system? Measure phase noise, dynamic properties, and everything u can measure with different cables, maybe that way u can measure a distance, especially with power cables
I too use high end cables mainly for aesthetic reasons, but also because they're decent quality cable relative to the free ones that come with the equipment .. my brand of choice is Gutwire from Canada, and for about $500-$1000 you get a VERY top notch cable, but I don't trust when PS Audio says they're seeing a synergy, its just marketing which is something Paul is very good at I've learned.
I've heard a little about using silver cables vs copper cables, I'd be interested to hear your opinions on that. I'm by no means tech savvy, my home theater is a basic 5.1 running only on my avr, so anything I could learn would be great, thanks!
Gene, I watch your channel when I want to learn something. I watch Paul's channel when I am eating food and want to be briefly entertained. And I complete agree, PS Audio makes some products that I too would be interested in playing with. However, I think Paul is 100% batshit crazy when he's talking about synergy in cables. I posted in his channel a long time ago, a sarcastic comment stating that I use my cables as tone controls. And here we are in 2020 and you made this video! Glad to see you are feeling better. Keep doing what you do, we appreciate it!
So here's my experience take it for what it's worth. I like to think I'm very.. factual, logical etc.. There's plenty of stuff that Paul says that I lawl @ but I try to keep an open mind and I'll try something to see for myself what I think (within reason). I have heard a difference swapping interconnects. It wasn't a huge difference but there was a tonal difference. I was swapping the cables for looks and here's where I think there's some validity to my statement, I preferred the cheaper set. I was kind of like.. this can't be, it doesn't make sense.. on paper I shouldn't have heard a difference but I clearly did. I even measured each conductor's resistance and they all measured similarly. I guess I'm just saying, maybe some aspects can't be measured? Do I think people should be concerned about what speaker cable they buy? No, but I also have to tell my truth. There's been plenty of other things I've tried where I didn't hear anything at all and measurements would suggest I should have.
Question for you Gene (from the 🇬🇧)......hopefully one that hasn’t been asked before. It’s about speaker cables 😳 I have a small sofa in between my speakers at one end (if you imagine a rectangular room) and my hifi rack against the side wall, is there a negative effect either though capacitance or inductance by running LH & RH speaker cables next to each other for 4 meters until they reach the point at which they separate at the first speaker? Also with equal length cables I have to somehow hide the extra length for one of the speakers, what’s the best method. Unfortunately all a product of fitting a stereo setup in a family environment. Real world problems hey 🤦🏼♂️
I have a audio quest subwoofer cable that was given to me with some speakers. Cant tell a difference between that and the rg6 subwoofer cable I had been using forever. 150 vs like 30...
For me, I purchased several cables from AudioQuest and Blue Jeans from a retailer that I could return them without issue. I tested them with my system in my room. Similar to how Zero Fidelity does in his videos. I found that there was a difference in sound quality from cable to cable. Some of the differences were minor, others were more obvious. However that being said, I love PS Audio hardware, but I would not purchase $1000 cables.
Measuring something in a lab where you look at a 0 and a 1 and experience what a person should do is a big difference. We decide on smells we like. I choose perfume for my nose not what it says on the packaging. I eat organic meat and always have a favorite brand. I don't like McDonald's but I like Burger King. What I see with my eyes I like. For a human, lab measurements are not indicative. Thankfully we use our 7 senses to decide what we like and don't like. I am a regular person who likes music and has invested some money in my sound system. I live in Europe in Sweden and I am not a fan of either you or anyone else you mention in your channel. What I oppose, however, is that you say that we humans cannot hear the difference between speaker cables, and that is exactly what we do. Specification on paper is one thing, but what we hear, feel and see is what determines what we feel. I have a tube amp and I happened to have the opportunity to listen to different speaker cables before I bought them, and I actually happened to choose Audioquest over many other brands BEFORE I heard the difference. On the papers according to specification I could never decide the folded cable I would have but by listening I could decide. When I buy a new TV I do not check the specification but I go to the store watching TV until I find the TV I like. The fact that PS audio has been able to hear and feel good for Audioquest I can understand because I chose my speaker cable in the same way. And what I hear you can never put a spec on or measure up. Two cables can have the same measurement values that they can sound completely different. No one has been able to prove to me through set why I hear more treble, headroom, stage, wide music more in one cable but not in the other. I just wanted to write to you here that we are not robotic and a 101010 is not the least interesting to us humans but we decide things by seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling.
I have watched videos with Paul from PS Audio, and the way he interacts with people that disagree in the comments is less than professional. It is the reaction of someone that is not happy that their biases are being challenged. Audioquest is a snake oil purveyor, and PS Audio is happy to ally with them. I wouldn't touch a product from either company. Synergistic Research is in the same class of huckster.
Great video. 2 different speakers can measure the same in most ways, but sound completely different. Even though we have the measurements to verify it that still doesn't tell what they actually sound like. Many amplifiers can measure the same but sound completely different. I am not excusing the cable industry for not supplying specs. I am just pointing out why measurements can't tell the whole story. I am not sure we know the "whys" of everything yet. I think not long ago Gene didn't like turntables until someone set it up correctly:) Anyway, Thanks for all you do to educate us.
Gene said the cable is acting like a tone control. Does different mean better? Maybe, but probably not. Is the "difference" worth thousands of dollars? Absolutely not. The predatory business tactics exhibited by these cable companies is inexcusable. If they want to have fancy cables costing a few hundred fine, but thousands is predatory.
Assuming the subjective perception is subject to bias, how can you confirm that they sound different? Have you done it in at least blind test using statistically sufficinet amonut of retries? If so, then we can proceed from that point on
I am having some problem with his logic. To me synergy between a cable and the rest of the system, means the cables do not affect the rest of the system.
I also wish you were paid to test all cables, even basic cheap cables like Hosa or Monoprice. Did you provide the test results for Monoprice's Monolith amps or did they actually pay Audio Precision?
@@Audioholics I'm aware you've tested them before. I noticed that Monoprice posted their Audio Precision results on their amps online and was curious if you had conducted those tests for Monoprice. They are the only company I've seen post Audio Precision results. Maybe you could convince Outlaw Audio to do that for them. haha, and then OSB Black Amps, and the list keeps going.
I think your strongest argument is your logical argument you started with. The measurement argument definitely is there, however I would argue that you should also offer to do a blind listen. And see if when cables are swapped you do or do not hear something. I trust that you would do it fairly honestly. Because I think their claim is even though they can’t measure it they hear it. OK I’m not sold on that, however I’m not dismissing it out of hand either. Just a thought. Love your presentations
Paul Roscelli so here is the thing. Human testing is pretty weak and insensitive all in all. We can measure things far finer electrically than we can hear. So this measurement argument has a problem. What I refer to as a difference without a difference. The argument that we measure the wrong things can sometimes be true. But...a transfer function is a complete set of information that fully characterized everything in a system. If a cable makes any audible difference it must change the transfer function. It’s impossible for that not to be true. In fact, that change in the transfer function will also contain many differences that are likely not audible. Truth be told, cables will very likely produce different transfer functions. That’s where these listening tests come in. Some reliably they can’t help us suss our where a difference exists that is also audible. But it’s always worth remembering, these tests don’t necessarily prove something isn’t audible. They simply fail to prove there is a difference. We then rely on repeating of the tests and other tests to triangulate the results and draw stronger conclusions.
Hi Gene Love your videos! I can`t se the problem in recommending cables. For the audiofiles that "believe" in cables strongly, Paul is making their life easier. When he says that the synergy is good with their produkts, that is what they will think, and relax, not having to chase for a "better" solution :) For people that don`t care about very expensive cables will not run buying those cables. My personal experience and belief is that cables are important. As I started building my hifi system I have had many different cables. It is very hard to say why and what changes in the sound, and I need to "listen to" a cable for a longer time in order to say if I like it or not. Quite early in my quest for a great hifi system I "upgraded" to some Van Den Hule cables. I was proud of my new cables!!! But after a few months I realized that I listened less and less to music. Then one night I changed back to the old 50NOK (5USD) cables and the joy and energy in the music came back:) But it was easy then to hear that those cables lacked control, and had bad phase control. The stereo perspective was "messy" So then I started looking for "good cables" that had It all. Good copper, seems to be the sound I like, and they don`t need to be very expensive. I don`t know why, but I have not had any cables with other metals for very long. Silver, gold and rhodium just not my cup of tea, and I can`t tell why......
Gene you're awesome, and I'm stoked to have stumbled on your channel. The answer to the question you proposed is..............Engineering grade cables may sound good to engineers, but since they don't look very cool they lose sound quality when they enter a consumer's home.
I have one example where there is a case of cable synergy. I own a set of Sanders Sound Model 10c Speakers. These electrostats prefer a cable with very low capacitance and moderate resistance for the panel section. I use Audio Envy cables because his design goal is lower capacitance. They did make a difference over bog standard Litz type cables. The woofer section is just standard 12ga cord that I put into a fancy TechFlex type jacket.
Low capacitance is easy to achieve with regular zip cord cable by increasing conductor spacing. You're not describing synergy. A high capacitance cable will act like a tone control in your case. Synergy would imply a cable will make a system perform better than no cable at all.
16:19 Just to have the full quote here: "positive claims require positive evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence". These cable companies make extraordinary claims about their products and provide no evidence. We should feel safe to dismiss their claims without any consideration until they can provide anything to back themselves up with.
having started in this wonderful hobby in the fifies, loved reading about exotica.then with techcnical education came vast amounts of skepticism and later disdain of all things snake oil.my safe place was with julian hirsch and later john atkinson. thank you gene, for calling bs in a calm civilised logical manner.this will never go away because to quote a wannabee politician,its all about the benjamins ,baby.
Thank you so much for explaining this crystal clear. I've been watching a few videos and reading forums lately, as I want to buy some audio equipment.... and I felt like this hole industry is full of myths and marketing BS. But it seems like the consumers defend the BS, and are proud buyers, instead of searching for the truth. Thank god I found your videos!! Great job!!
Placebo effect? How about monetary effect? Synergy between components and cables can also mean the synergy of cost sharing with regard to advertising or show fees. Surely, that kind of synergy results in an objective, measurable effect...on their bottom lines.
Thanks for the video. They were talking business synergy and how both companies can make more money. Please do a video on conditioners (types), regenerators and if they matter and measurements.
I love how hard you crush people's hopes and dreams, no remorse. Some of this fantasy stuff is fun to believe and audio jewelry is beautiful, but it's so important to have someone like you bringing everyone back to reality. Let's make real improvements rather than spending so much time and resources on nonsense. Keep up the great work!
Gene, you make too much sense to be popular with most audiophiles. 🤣
You just summed up why @Audioholics is so darn amazing. Keep being awesome Gene!
I used to watch videos from PS Audio..... But then my wife complained that she could hear the BS from the kitchen!
Elderly salesmen...
@@Bob.martenswhat’s the alternative to being elderly? Being dead. Sounds like you don’t want to become elderly.
I stopped watching that fraud after he says power cables make A difference.
Think about it…listening to copper, nothing else, listening to copper! Either dumb or crazy!
BS Audio
I learned my most important lesson about placebo effect when I adjusted a tone control on a console several times until it sounded perfect only to realize that I had it bypassed.
Dan That’s happened to the best of us, usually after too much listening.
Ouch!
I hear you get the best synergy when you put a Spock cutout in a Ferrari , it lifts a veil on the exhaust note!
Oh look it's my favorite cigar channel commenting on my favorite audiophile channel. Nice.
@@youngmrjazz That's synergy for you. :D
The synergy here is a business contract to align the two companies marketing machines together to promote snake oil products.
Sup Godfather of Home Theater, Gene Corleone aka Don Dellasala. I think you were fair in this one. Constructive in your criticism. Tough to argue with science.
I could sell a $#!∆ ton of high end cables just by saying they look awesome, they feel awesome, they're expensive and therefore exclusive. No unproven claims there. And throw a hot chick in for good measure. $$$$!
Joe N Tell well said brother. He really is GENE Corleone. I Hope you have a great day Brother.
:)) Cheers to the Audioholics Mafia
Joe N Tell
Hey, Joe. Wanna start a cable business? I know a couple of very attractive females. 😜
In this stoneage good looking guys might work too lol
The "hot chick" is ongoing expense.
I love this channel and Paul's as well - and, I think that Paul might even secretly agree with you to an extent. But he's a manufacture that has to "play nice" with other manufactures in the space. As long as cable manufactures spend huge money advertising in stereo related print and internet ads, I doubt manufacturers and even many reviewers, will call them out for being snake oil. It's one of many issues in the industry on a whole.
PS Audio now sells audioquest cables so of course Paul is going to talk them up in hopes of increased sales when someone buys an amp they can sell expensive power cords ,interconnects and speaker wire all at the same time. One thing I find particularly amusing is they now sell and use Audioquest Dragon power cords on the INPUT and output of their Power Plant regenerators ,now since the Power plant makes it's own clean power regardless of input why use expensive inputs.
I've always found the PS Audio videos to have very dubious and sometimes incorrect claims, with poor explanations of engineering.
@@rarelycomments You're alrignt. I apreciate Paul as a person, but his channel is based mostly on non-sense claims and audiophile BS...
@Mr Do I agree for 192Khz... but if you can't see the difference between 4K and 1080P contents, you need to change your glasses.
PS: there's no 16b/44Khz-only DACs anymore....
@@vintageflanker7096
Cd's are 16 bit 44.1 khz so 24 bit etc DACs is meaningless and 4k is stupid! If you have at minimum a 55 inch screen and sit 3 feet from it you will notice a diff, otherwise you won't. I couldn't give 2 craps about 4k.
Paul and his absurd cable nonsense turned me off to his channel. He went from a nice ole guy to a charlatan the first time I heard him go down that road. There's no way he truly believes that drivel. I still peak over there because some topics are interesting in other areas, but I'm calloused and suspicious of his opinions.
I don't know but following his ideas with subwoofers made a huge difference to m y system and I only use a Onkyo AVR
ua-cam.com/video/5AoiS_e8wBA/v-deo.html
I personally like the guy and the channel. I think he is entertaining and smart. He isn't an idiot that is for sure. Like you though I don't agree with everything he says. Like power cables and speaker wires and the likes. Then again I don't really believe in god either, but I am not going to hate those that do.
PS Audio Noise Harvester AC cleaner... blinking light for $99. That's all I'm going to say.
I'm really glad you called Paul out on his bs. Lying about your product is a fast way to sink your company. I watched Paul's videos until he made the one about Audioquest cables and how they made his system soooo much better. The problem was that he was talking about power cables going into his own Power Stream power conditioners that cost $10,000 each! Shouldn't a $10k power conditioner already have amazing power cables on it? And if the $7k cables fix everything then why do I need a $10k power conditioner? I was really interested in his products until he lied. I'll be looking elsewhere for my new DAC when I buy it!
i mean. kinda silly to think he's *lying* about it, when his own company makes a competing product. wrong, sure, but if he was lying surely it'd be in the other direction.
wober777 At least Paul has a company making great sounding audio gear, I think he knows what he is talking about. Go read the article Gene posted. Maybe you guys should go on a road trip to Colorado to meet and listen and then make a judgment.
I really enjoyed Paul's videos, and had considered buying PS Audio products until I got the email announcing the PS Audio line of cables made by AudioQuest. It was really disappointing and I lost a lot of respect for him and the company.
I agree . If the PS audio functioned as advertised you should not need a fancy cable .
I remember a review of the Technics Reference Series System where the reviewer thought the system was not sounding great until he switched the Ethernet cables that send a digital signal from the preamp to the amp to some fancy cable ethernet cables. This reviewer "discovered" how these magic cables changed the data stream from the digital signal and made it sound like magic. I stop reading that magazine that day. It was The Absolute Sound BTW
If anyone isn't fully convinced why data cables (and hard drives) can't change the sound, imagine you're transferring a file instead. If there were differences, the file would be full of errors. Executables simply wouldn't run. Websites wouldn't load. It would be useless.
It can happen but not because some esotherical reasons : I had troubles with a server farm which were showing intermitency. The reason: cable quality (the wires weren't holding in place after patched) and the technical aid (student) didn't patch correctly the cables. It was around 20 yr ago.
@@Yu-Fei-Hung yeah absolutely. But if the cable is well made and in good condition….
@@irisfailsafe there are cable comparisons made by musicians to check how these can modify the sound. Check this UA-cam video (Spanish):
ua-cam.com/video/mw6Ja1o0mzE/v-deo.html
Paul must be referring to the synergy with his bank account.
Haha... So true
Would that be his wife and the bank account more likely
😭😭😭
@@kevonmanuel 99% True to be precise :D
LOL!
The owner of Audioquest lives in a 5 million dollar condo IN a Newport Beach shopping center. Lots of markup in Chinese-made cables.
What's wrong with Chinese made cables?? Raw material and literally everything is made in that place. Also alot of aq cables are made in USA high end ones.
Stanny1 Shows he’s a successful businessman, no different than restaurant owners that serve $500 entrees or someone selling $200 jeans with rips in the knees. No one HAS to buy their goods, yet people do.
Stanny1 should he live in the hood to make you feel better? Where would you live if you were in the same situation?
He could go shopping every day 🎁
When I sold Audioquest us salesmen got 75% off retail. We also got points for all the Audioquest we sold. I have AQ cables everywhere in my house. I would never in a million years buy those cables at retail.
Also met Bill Lowe of AQ once. He was an interesting guy.
As someone who seeks the best from both Home and Car audio, I must agree with you Gene! Car audio has its own unique obstacles to overcome. Years ago when I first started, I learned early on about cable quality in cars. I've been using RG6 as interconnects and ALL the noise is gone. A dear friend of mine loves his AudioQuest junk. I swapped in a pair to test with just for shits and giggles in my last build and all the issues of using cheap Walmart interconnects came back, alternator whine, spark noise, etc. Now I only use RG6 in my house as well. If it's good enough for automotive use, it's good enough for my home!
I once solved a problem I created with cheap EQ/Amplifiers. I had the Alternator whining noise. I tried filters and nothing worked.
Finally I learned the importance of a great close common ground. I took the ground wires of the head and EQ amps grounds to a common thick wire with as little distance between them. I grounded those to chassis. It made a world of difference. The power wire was RG59U coming straight from the battery and switched on by a relay.
Gene is one of the few people that review products and various claims made by the sales side of the audio business with an eye towards the consumers best interest so God bless him for that. In this case I'd love to see if Gene could get the owners at Blue Jean Cables to weigh in on this, not to bash their competition, but just to offer their opinions on various types of cables and how they manufacture and sell very reasonably priced interconnects.
If i send you my cable, that i designed, will you skip measurements and go straight to sound validation? If you hear a decent difference, will you advertice it on your channel and become a dealer? It will be a 50-50 after cost...
Measurements also cause placebo effects, due to preconditioned information. Why would you not rely on your ears when it comes to audio? Where do you draw the line? Can you hear your measurements, or is it just the placebo you're hearing?
I've done a/b blind testing with expensive and cheap cables and really nobody could consistently tell a difference. Even had spliced together speaker wire at times. Cables and wire are the biggest crock of b/s in the consumer market.
@Mr Do not sure what point you are trying to make here.
Totally agree with this one. I have had this discussion at my hifi dealer several times. I tell them that in the circuit the goal should be that the cables do not contribute to the circuit for resistance or capacitance - in other words disappear in a thevenin equivalent circuit so that they do not influence the sound. As soon as the speaker cables begin to be a contributing part of the circuit you are now listening to something other than the way your speakers are designed to sound. I hate being told that there are some things we can hear but can't measure. We have been characterizing and measuring audio for longer than almost anything else. We know how to do it, and our instruments are much more sensitive, accurate, and repeatable than the human ear.
Finally we got some expert telling the facts. All these audio cable makers basically sell snake oil. Oh yes they even sell a $10 power cord for $1000
“Just when I thought I was out…they pull me back in.”
Down votes by PS Audio, Audioquest and snake oil suckers...
I agree :) but how about copper vs silver ? does it change some measurement ?
The crux of the mater is do you like the sound?
I agree with you about the “filter effect” cables have on gear. I’ve seen audiophiles claim that they liked a $2k cable better than a particular $10k cable. And I can’t explain that. The placebo effect would naturally push the $10k cable to the top of the list. I asked you a question on your “power cable debunking” video about if we know what to test for when it comes to things like cables. It was a really good question I won’t repeat the whole question here (it was eloquently written) . I hope you read that question and give it some thought. But you own that kimber cable and it measures better than your 10g. Can you actually hear any difference between the two? It seems silly that such a small difference would be audible. Just curious if you can hear a difference?
What analog XLR interconnect balanced cables do you recommend? I don't see Mogami offering these, unless you are using their microphone cables. Is that what you use and show in this video?
Not sure if you've touched on this, but recently I saw a PS Audio video about a braided power cable making a night and day difference. Building amps myself, I understand how twisted pairs can be a benefit in certain parts of an amp, but I'm not sure the last few feet of power cable before you plug into an amp will matter? The cable running from your breaker box to all of your lights, receptacles, and so on are parallel conductors; not twisted. Thoughts?
Gene, have been listening to you for years. Thanks for all you do, but I wanted to make a comment. I LOVED your mention of Hitchens Razor!!! RIP Christopher.
I’m in the middle of building my ultimate system. I can’t tell you how confusing this subject is. It’s probably the most disputed subject in audio.please tell me a brand you would recommend so I don’t get ripped off. I believe I saw a video of you praising kimber cables. I can only do this once in a lifetime. Please help. Thanks for your help 🙏🙏🙏🙏
What about a shout-out between the belden 5t00up and the super expensive blue jeans cable iconoclast?
Hi Gene, which Mogami cable would you recommend for XLR interconnects (between pre/pro and amp) 2549, 2534, 2791, or other? Thanks in advance.
I think mogami 2549 is ok.
The 2534 is quad conductors cable，you dont need to use it because of short distance.
mogmai 2571 I dont recommand，because this cable made for special purpose (high flexibility)
Have you ever listen to MIT Magnum or Oracle speaker cables?
The simple answer is: The Audioquest CEO is the PS Audio CEO’s friend. He has said so.
And audio quest is a huge rip off.... lol
Hey Gene, I just watched an old video of Dillons audio in California. Did you ever take him up on his challenge? Is so what did you find?
Thanks for your time.
Don't even know who that is so...no.
Absolutely true Gene . Paul also claims that we can't measure everything we hear in cables. As you said cables should not act as a tone control.
So how else do you tone control if the amp has no tone controls. You have to use cables to do it.
@@aussie8114 nice one 😂
Objectively what you want is a flat SPL output from 20-20khz *and* a flat phase response. If you can measure that (with a calibrated microphone) you pretty much have the original sound as it was recorded.
Ok you need a DSP to do that but that's maybe a few hundred dollars.
But that begs the question - if you can achieve that with a $500 system (amp+speakers+sub) then is there any point is spending more?
What are your thoughts on the enclave cinehub pro
before you did this vid i already owned the audioquest " water" cable.ive now removed the batteries from the 2 sets i have in my system. i think the word " synergy " is the wrong word to use in hifi. i agree with you ,i dont look at purchasing cables to have " synergy " personally for me its to make it look good and not to pick up interference etc. it would be great Gene if you would please measure the bhk appliances just to see exactly what ive purchased according to your side of the this past time.. also in cables from a hifi angle,i dont think it really matters how they measure ,its all to do with how they sound. if i had the worst cable in the world according to measurements but sounded the best cable ever ,then id buy it. i wouldnt buy a cable just because it measures well. it comes down to the fact that theres 2 ways of looking at all of this. no side is wrong. you guys are all correct in your arguments.
So glad to have you in this industry, fighting the good fight for common sense and critical thinking. I love making DIY Canare LV-61S or Belden 1694F cables--high quality and no-nonsense. And then for audio jewelry, I'll sometimes get some pretty Techflex, but that's where the exotics end. :) Hope all is well with you. Keep doing what you're doing! :)
@@astroporpoise7802 thank you ❤️
Anyone who owns Audioquest or some other high-end cables, please send them to Gene so he can measure.
Sure. But whatever he do that won't solve the problem. Their cables are most probably audibly transparent. Still, Audiophools will claim hear night and day differences all the same.
@Mr Do Just look at anti-vaxxing. One doctor lied and made a false claim that vaccinations caused autism. Within the next 3 years Europe saw outbreaks. They caught on and started vaxxing again and it dropped back down. Now in America it resurfaced and look at our outbreaks. Evidence shows the doctor was wrong and that he based if off a few kids and changed the numbers to favor his theory. Does that stop people from believing vaccinations cause autism??? NOPE. Some people are just dumb and will believe myths in the face of evidence. It's literally no different here.
I own some Audioquest Forest interconnect, which costs $35 or so and their more expensive model, which was $50. Is it high-end enough for snake oil debunking experiment?
@@audiofun999 Since you can get much more reliable Mogami/Canare interconnects for 20-30$, I guess it already starts to be "snake oil". 😉
Send them to me, I have some stuff from a flying saucer that I would like to sell them.
😊For AudioQuest SureGrip500 vs SureGrip1000 all buyer had Questing too. May i know How Pure is the Copper ! & is it Pure copper or Purple copper 99% or more !! Spec Spec pls ! Is it Above 99% copper & 0.7% of Beryllium or just Beryllium M25 Alloy or Beryllium 25 or Beryllium 165 or !😊 & Whats Is Purple vs Red copper means?
Gene I have Kimber cable 8tc just for the fun of it and comparing it to regular 10 gauge i only notice a slight change in sound listening around 0db on the receiver which is really loud. I am wondering on Chinese cables from eBay and Ali Express they sell the very same exact that looks like Kimber cable using 16-24 threads for much cheaper.
Thang I’ve actually bought some of these to see what they are. You have to be careful. Often very crappy connectors and the cable gauge was less than advertised. In one case I found a cable using aluminum instead of copper. I also found a scenario where the cable had a very thin strand with a lot of filler.
It’s not that there are no good chinese cables, but if you aren’t sure what you are getting, it can be a bit Wild West. I also got some very good raw cable stock from a chinese supplier at a very good price.
@@PoesAcoustics alot of cables put filler even u.s made ones it's for rca . But alot of Chinese ones that are expensive look and see made very high quality. Even u.s cable people who custom make they own they look exactly like the Chinese ones part for part.
Henry Ott's book has been one of my favorite reference books since decades! Thank you for keep sharing rationality and truth.
Thank you Gene. You will always be a standard barer for me. I have some electronics and communications background. I too loathe the application of RF frequency theory to the audio spectrum. I do have a question if you don't mind.
I promise this one, while off the topic of audio, it has RF relevance.
I used Cable modem for ISP service. I believe the Home, being 1984 construction is RG59U and the feed outside is RG6. My ISP service is a theoretical 1200 Mbps. I have considered coupling at the source and bring in an additional RG6 cable for speed tests. My highest test speed was 1192 Mbps.
I think this likely verifies that my older Coaxial spec isn't hurting me.
Would that match your thoughts on this ?
It's rare I get that great of a test speed but it is my max on a shared bandwidth with my neighborhood.
I'm surprised you're getting 1Gbps speed from RG59U. Check your upload speed as well. RG6 has superior BW especially for longer runs. However, if you're getting those kinds of speeds, why fix something that isn't broken?
@@Audioholics I would typically get 945 down on a good day but that was from a test from a PC on the other side of the router.
Router only has a 2.5 ethernet to the 2.5 on the cable modem.
The rest are 1G LAN.
The best numbers I got was with dual teamed Ethernet on that 1g LAN.
I would typically get 945 Mbps at best.
The best number was direct from the router
down 1192 Mbps
up 44.65 Mbps
It's 1984 it's gotta be RG59 U right ??
Snake oil question... Are power conditioners snake oil... do they actually protect gear from lightning strikes and do power conditioners provide filtering that provides an audible difference or a measurable difference? Please provide this video with actual tests and test results.
A sane man in an insane world of audiophiles with more money then sense
I’ve watched a few of your videos now, great info and well presented.
I do have a couple of questions though.
You heavily rely on the audio precision analyser and your own knowledge to debunk these claims, however, have you ever considered that what people claim they can hear is something that is outside of your own measuring capabilities?
I’ve noticed whenever you talk about “cables make a difference” you never actually re create the scenario of which the “audiophile” claims to have heard these differences and actually measure sound coming from the speakers in a stereo playback setting. Is there such a piece of equipment that can measure intricate details of audio playback like soundstage and imaging, tone and texture etc?
This is not a cocky attempt to bash your theories, I’m genuinely curious to know if you have considered these things and if not, why?
Thanks Gene, another great video 👍🏻
@russellparker4568 I actually measured the electrical and acoustical responses at the speaker with generic 10awg zip cord and expensive exotics cables and the differences were negligible (0.1 to 0.001dB) which is indecenible to the ear and we'll within the realm of variances caused by the measurements themselves. You can move your head a few inches or your couch and yield acoustical differences of several dB or more by comparison.
What is a good target for L and C per foot ? besides the ideal of very low values.
L = < 0.2uH/ft C = < 100pf/ft
@@Audioholics Thanks.
Tho to a small degree I do use some interconnects for tone. After all is said and done with my gear it gives just a slight tweek to put it a little more to my liking. I don't use hi end cables, just a touch above entry Transparent. I found the networked cable sounded a touch smoother on the top end than the same level of say a Tara cable, but really almost imperceivable.
No, I don't get tired of these sorts of videos on what works, and what does a bit of difference, and benefit; and what factors don't do anything. Thumbs up easily. You tell it as it is in the real world.
Does it make sense to buy expensive headphone cables ? I have spent thousands of $$$ on "pure silver" headphone cables but I haven't noticed any sound difference from stock cables.
How are they supposed to sound different?
Gene ... you are incorrect. Totally incorrect. The best component to use with max effect are still cable lifters. All of a sudden the system will sound exactly like the performers are in front of you. Don’t waste money on cables. Get cable lifters. 😂🤣
It seems every few years Gene has to discuss the snake oil market of the audio industry.
been minutes lately
about vibration how to effect sound, or just sneak oil, some hi end cable brand said vibration bad for sound,even very very little vibration.
What is the best cables?
What about power strips with filters? Snake oil or not? I can't hear any difference in cables but I don't know why, but I hear a difference in my new power strip with filters for 99$!
I am myself an electrical engineer by profession...and the audiophil for some 40+ Years...
Great observation...and the previous one about speaker cables as well.
Congretulation!
28/03/2024.Have enjoyed your information very much.I do use the Kimber 8tc and the cables that came with my Hegel H390/Hegel Viking.
Is it possible when some people claim to hear a difference in cables what they are hearing is the effects of either too high capacitance or inductance with their expensive cables as Gene has said some exotic cables actually measure poorly compared to Belden 10 AWG wire.
lee kumiega I think yes, it’s possible. In my system I found some cheaper cables to sound better than the more expensive ones.
Don't you get a period when you can send a bought item back? Buy the cables, measure and return. Easy right?
I've seen a ton of videos about speaker cables and I think Mr. Gene Dellasala knows what he is saying.
I bought recently audio cable KnuKonceptz 10 Gauge with Nakamichi screw lock banana plugs and I am quite happy with the sound.
I hope I won't regret it after few years.
Thank you Mr. Gene for sharing your knowlege.
can you put banana plugs on belden 1694A? Maybe do a tutorial on how to convert it into a speaker cable
When did we start talking about bicycles? Is there a Schwinn cable?
Over at AudioScienceReview Amir debunked a $2,300 set of AudioQuest cables. No special performance and failed when tested for shielding. If they're willing to rip people off with a BS $2,300 cable what won't they do.
Have you gone down that path and done a video on Speaker cable and interconnect impedence characteristics? Great video by the way. Awesome channel!
I think I talked about that topic in several videos but may do a dedicated one on it. thanks.
Gene great video, this topic is never tiring, i have a question, under what circumstances can a cable be made to act like a tone control ? If we add more capacitance or inductance to a cable on purpose will that change the tone or sound in any way ? Also do different materials used to make a cable make any difference in measurements silver vs ofc copper ?
Sanjay Salariya the resistance, inductance, and capacitance of a cable acts as an RLC filter. That is how it behaves like a tone control.
I recently did some modeling of this for Gene with a reactive load and I had to vary the values substantially to actually see a big change in the performance. Which really supports the notion that the difference the cable makes is too minuscule to matter. Further, no reason to believe an expensive cable would be any better in this regard.
For the experiment I plugged in actual numbers Gene measured of real cables. The cables that did the best were often the run of the mill cheap cables. The ones that did the worst were often expensive exotic cables. Though in reality, within the audio spectrum, we are talking like 1/5 of a dB or less in variation. Very little. I had to put in crazy values to show something approaching .5 dB or more.
Matthew Poes thankyou for the reply, in your opinion using silver or copper makes any difference ?? .. looking forward for the polk audio L800 review.
I'm all about measurements. Because with measurements, sure you can argue, was it measured correctly, but other than that, measurements are measurements. At some point the excuses go away. That's the problem with abx tests. Audiophiles tend to not want to abx their setups, because they'll claim there's some special property about their unit, its burn in, its cable synergy, the fact that it must be kept on for hours before its ready to play from off, no matter the time off, etc., etc., etc. It's always some excuse, because I think deep down, there's an element of narcissism there. They tell themselves they believe these things because they're intelligent audiophiles, they've tested this $300 1ft usb cable and it's truly awe-inspiring the difference it makes. It's impossible for some of these people to put their egos, and themselves, aside for a moment and talk about science, i.e. testable hypotheses.
Dear Gene....you made my day. These snake oil guru's must hate you! Thank you for standing up!!!
Incidently, I have an E.A.R 518 amp that was designed and built by Tim de Paravicini himself.
I find the Hi end audio industry, similar to other luxury fields, full of secrecy and hyperbole claims. A lot of what the consumer pays for is not necessary to put it kindly. There is this implied exclusivity that is conveyed by brands, retailers, stores, reps. Cable Synergy to me is part of that. “You are not really getting the expected result of the component without also including this expensive snake oil in your purchase”. That is what it would take to enter the club.
My personal interest is the sound. I don’t care about the exotic wood, the jewelry style cables, luxurious expenses. I have found your channel to be exactly what I want to hear. I would be more interested in reviews of components that measure well but are more geared towards the regular guy with interest in quality audio. Speakers of a more modest size (less than 7ft tall 😅), subwoofers that can be moved by a single person, amps that cost less than a car and systems that can be put together by a family guy with a regular pay check.
Still I enjoy your content and reviewing all the equipment I will not ever buy.
Well so called "precise measurements" consist of one sine wave? How about putting through multiple frequencies at the same time very complex signal like music is? Can that be measured? Also how about "dynamic contrast" measurement? Like put in signal at -60db and then 0db signal and do a comparison between cables and equipment, that if the equipment is capable of that accurate distance
It doesn't matter if you use sinewaves or complex tones. The test signal is the same for ALL tests to show direct differences. Wire cannot produce non-linear distortion. The burden of proof resides on the person(s) making a claim otherwise.
@@Audioholics well i totally get ur point and i agree with u, but is not what i hear, for some reason in some cases there is such a difference! Well anyway, did anyone try to measure different cables in a system? Connected and measured while in a system? Measure phase noise, dynamic properties, and everything u can measure with different cables, maybe that way u can measure a distance, especially with power cables
I too use high end cables mainly for aesthetic reasons, but also because they're decent quality cable relative to the free ones that come with the equipment .. my brand of choice is Gutwire from Canada, and for about $500-$1000 you get a VERY top notch cable, but I don't trust when PS Audio says they're seeing a synergy, its just marketing which is something Paul is very good at I've learned.
I've heard a little about using silver cables vs copper cables, I'd be interested to hear your opinions on that. I'm by no means tech savvy, my home theater is a basic 5.1 running only on my avr, so anything I could learn would be great, thanks!
Gene,
I watch your channel when I want to learn something.
I watch Paul's channel when I am eating food and want to be briefly entertained.
And I complete agree, PS Audio makes some products that I too would be interested in playing with. However, I think Paul is 100% batshit crazy when he's talking about synergy in cables. I posted in his channel a long time ago, a sarcastic comment stating that I use my cables as tone controls. And here we are in 2020 and you made this video!
Glad to see you are feeling better. Keep doing what you do, we appreciate it!
Every time Gene says Wayne Kerr Analyser, the Brits in the audience hear something else and it will always be funny...
HA HA HA been keeping this one in my pocket for a while LOL
Wayne Kerr began as the Wayne Kerr Research Laboratories in London in 1946... They've been playing this double entendre for decades!
So here's my experience take it for what it's worth. I like to think I'm very.. factual, logical etc.. There's plenty of stuff that Paul says that I lawl @ but I try to keep an open mind and I'll try something to see for myself what I think (within reason). I have heard a difference swapping interconnects. It wasn't a huge difference but there was a tonal difference. I was swapping the cables for looks and here's where I think there's some validity to my statement, I preferred the cheaper set. I was kind of like.. this can't be, it doesn't make sense.. on paper I shouldn't have heard a difference but I clearly did. I even measured each conductor's resistance and they all measured similarly.
I guess I'm just saying, maybe some aspects can't be measured? Do I think people should be concerned about what speaker cable they buy? No, but I also have to tell my truth. There's been plenty of other things I've tried where I didn't hear anything at all and measurements would suggest I should have.
Car Audio Inc Bottom line= “your hearing cannot measure”.
Question for you Gene (from the 🇬🇧)......hopefully one that hasn’t been asked before.
It’s about speaker cables 😳 I have a small sofa in between my speakers at one end (if you imagine a rectangular room) and my hifi rack against the side wall, is there a negative effect either though capacitance or inductance by running LH & RH speaker cables next to each other for 4 meters until they reach the point at which they separate at the first speaker? Also with equal length cables I have to somehow hide the extra length for one of the speakers, what’s the best method. Unfortunately all a product of fitting a stereo setup in a family environment. Real world problems hey 🤦🏼♂️
I have a audio quest subwoofer cable that was given to me with some speakers. Cant tell a difference between that and the rg6 subwoofer cable I had been using forever. 150 vs like 30...
For me, I purchased several cables from AudioQuest and Blue Jeans from a retailer that I could return them without issue. I tested them with my system in my room. Similar to how
Zero Fidelity does in his videos. I found that there was a difference in sound quality from cable to cable. Some of the differences were minor, others were more obvious. However that being said, I love PS Audio hardware, but I would not purchase $1000 cables.
I would not purchase nickel for AudioQuest cables
Did you do a blind test? If you didn't it's just confirmation bias.
i asked the same question to paul. didnt get an answer..
Measuring something in a lab where you look at a 0 and a 1 and experience what a person should do is a big difference. We decide on smells we like. I choose perfume for my nose not what it says on the packaging. I eat organic meat and always have a favorite brand. I don't like McDonald's but I like Burger King. What I see with my eyes I like. For a human, lab measurements are not indicative. Thankfully we use our 7 senses to decide what we like and don't like. I am a regular person who likes music and has invested some money in my sound system. I live in Europe in Sweden and I am not a fan of either you or anyone else you mention in your channel. What I oppose, however, is that you say that we humans cannot hear the difference between speaker cables, and that is exactly what we do. Specification on paper is one thing, but what we hear, feel and see is what determines what we feel. I have a tube amp and I happened to have the opportunity to listen to different speaker cables before I bought them, and I actually happened to choose Audioquest over many other brands BEFORE I heard the difference. On the papers according to specification I could never decide the folded cable I would have but by listening I could decide. When I buy a new TV I do not check the specification but I go to the store watching TV until I find the TV I like. The fact that PS audio has been able to hear and feel good for Audioquest I can understand because I chose my speaker cable in the same way. And what I hear you can never put a spec on or measure up. Two cables can have the same measurement values that they can sound completely different. No one has been able to prove to me through set why I hear more treble, headroom, stage, wide music more in one cable but not in the other. I just wanted to write to you here that we are not robotic and a 101010 is not the least interesting to us humans but we decide things by seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling.
Don't stop doing these videos please Gene, I keep an open mind and an eye on my wallet
Thanks
Are you kidding me? Audiophile cables makes a huge difference!
In your wallet that is! I am glad to see you are doing better!
I guess you and I are on the same planet .
I have watched videos with Paul from PS Audio, and the way he interacts with people that disagree in the comments is less than professional. It is the reaction of someone that is not happy that their biases are being challenged. Audioquest is a snake oil purveyor, and PS Audio is happy to ally with them. I wouldn't touch a product from either company. Synergistic Research is in the same class of huckster.
I have little experience with Paul on the forums. I was just going off the personality he projects in his videos.
Great video. 2 different speakers can measure the same in most ways, but sound completely different. Even though we have the measurements to verify it that still doesn't tell what they actually sound like. Many amplifiers can measure the same but sound completely different. I am not excusing the cable industry for not supplying specs. I am just pointing out why measurements can't tell the whole story. I am not sure we know the "whys" of everything yet. I think not long ago Gene didn't like turntables until someone set it up correctly:) Anyway, Thanks for all you do to educate us.
Gene said the cable is acting like a tone control. Does different mean better? Maybe, but probably not. Is the "difference" worth thousands of dollars? Absolutely not. The predatory business tactics exhibited by these cable companies is inexcusable. If they want to have fancy cables costing a few hundred fine, but thousands is predatory.
Assuming the subjective perception is subject to bias, how can you confirm that they sound different? Have you done it in at least blind test using statistically sufficinet amonut of retries? If so, then we can proceed from that point on
If synergy must or can be proved objectively. Is their an objective definition for wat synergy is ?
I am having some problem with his logic. To me synergy between a cable and the rest of the system, means the cables do not affect the rest of the system.
I also wish you were paid to test all cables, even basic cheap cables like Hosa or Monoprice. Did you provide the test results for Monoprice's Monolith amps or did they actually pay Audio Precision?
I've tested Monoprice amps and published results on Audioholics. They are ATI, very good stuff and they are very capable of measuring themselves too.
@@Audioholics I'm aware you've tested them before. I noticed that Monoprice posted their Audio Precision results on their amps online and was curious if you had conducted those tests for Monoprice. They are the only company I've seen post Audio Precision results. Maybe you could convince Outlaw Audio to do that for them. haha, and then OSB Black Amps, and the list keeps going.
I would like you to talk about network switches for audio, things like jitter, and how buffers are useless
I think your strongest argument is your logical argument you started with. The measurement argument definitely is there, however I would argue that you should also offer to do a blind listen. And see if when cables are swapped you do or do not hear something. I trust that you would do it fairly honestly. Because I think their claim is even though they can’t measure it they hear it. OK I’m not sold on that, however I’m not dismissing it out of hand either. Just a thought. Love your presentations
Paul Roscelli so here is the thing. Human testing is pretty weak and insensitive all in all. We can measure things far finer electrically than we can hear.
So this measurement argument has a problem. What I refer to as a difference without a difference. The argument that we measure the wrong things can sometimes be true. But...a transfer function is a complete set of information that fully characterized everything in a system. If a cable makes any audible difference it must change the transfer function. It’s impossible for that not to be true.
In fact, that change in the transfer function will also contain many differences that are likely not audible. Truth be told, cables will very likely produce different transfer functions. That’s where these listening tests come in. Some reliably they can’t help us suss our where a difference exists that is also audible. But it’s always worth remembering, these tests don’t necessarily prove something isn’t audible. They simply fail to prove there is a difference. We then rely on repeating of the tests and other tests to triangulate the results and draw stronger conclusions.
Hi Gene
Love your videos! I can`t se the problem in recommending cables. For the audiofiles that "believe" in cables strongly, Paul is making their life easier. When he says that the synergy is good with their produkts, that is what they will think, and relax, not having to chase for a "better" solution :)
For people that don`t care about very expensive cables will not run buying those cables.
My personal experience and belief is that cables are important. As I started building my hifi system I have had many different cables. It is very hard to say why and what changes in the sound, and I need to "listen to" a cable for a longer time in order to say if I like it or not.
Quite early in my quest for a great hifi system I "upgraded" to some Van Den Hule cables. I was proud of my new cables!!! But after a few months I realized that I listened less and less to music. Then one night I changed back to the old 50NOK (5USD) cables and the joy and energy in the music came back:) But it was easy then to hear that those cables lacked control, and had bad phase control. The stereo perspective was "messy"
So then I started looking for "good cables" that had It all. Good copper, seems to be the sound I like, and they don`t need to be very expensive. I don`t know why, but I have not had any cables with other metals for very long. Silver, gold and rhodium just not my cup of tea, and I can`t tell why......
Gene you're awesome, and I'm stoked to have stumbled on your channel. The answer to the question you proposed is..............Engineering grade cables may sound good to engineers, but since they don't look very cool they lose sound quality when they enter a consumer's home.
I have one example where there is a case of cable synergy. I own a set of Sanders Sound Model 10c Speakers. These electrostats prefer a cable with very low capacitance and moderate resistance for the panel section. I use Audio Envy cables because his design goal is lower capacitance. They did make a difference over bog standard Litz type cables. The woofer section is just standard 12ga cord that I put into a fancy TechFlex type jacket.
Low capacitance is easy to achieve with regular zip cord cable by increasing conductor spacing. You're not describing synergy. A high capacitance cable will act like a tone control in your case. Synergy would imply a cable will make a system perform better than no cable at all.
@@Audioholics ah, I see what you mean. In my case, I thought synergy to mean that one cable performs better than another with a specific component.
16:19 Just to have the full quote here: "positive claims require positive evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence".
These cable companies make extraordinary claims about their products and provide no evidence. We should feel safe to dismiss their claims without any consideration until they can provide anything to back themselves up with.
having started in this wonderful hobby in the fifies, loved reading about exotica.then with techcnical education came vast amounts of skepticism and later disdain of all things snake oil.my safe place was with julian hirsch and later john atkinson. thank you gene, for calling bs in a calm civilised logical manner.this will never go away because to quote a wannabee politician,its all about the benjamins ,baby.
Thank you so much for explaining this crystal clear. I've been watching a few videos and reading forums lately, as I want to buy some audio equipment.... and I felt like this hole industry is full of myths and marketing BS. But it seems like the consumers defend the BS, and are proud buyers, instead of searching for the truth.
Thank god I found your videos!! Great job!!
Placebo effect? How about monetary effect? Synergy between components and cables can also mean the synergy of cost sharing with regard to advertising or show fees. Surely, that kind of synergy results in an objective, measurable effect...on their bottom lines.
Thanks for the video. They were talking business synergy and how both companies can make more money. Please do a video on conditioners (types), regenerators and if they matter and measurements.
You measure a class D amplifier as well as a dan d’agastino amp. The class d will measure better but which one will be having musicality.
I say keep it up!! All this Money spent on Snake Oil Cables could be spent on better Speakers or Amps. Keep up the good work!!!
Glad to see you healthy and back!