Not a bad video, but there are some inaccuracies. Atari did not have "licensed games" like the way Nintendo did back in the days of the 2600 so there was no "unlicensed games". There were "Licenses" to port games from IP holders, but that was between publishers, and the IP holder. Atari never set up a system like that until after Nintendo did it. So even the 7800 did not do it either only the Lynx & Jaguar did it that way to a degree. There was another publisher that followed the rules, but produced more than five games per year. Konami created Ultra Games (Palcom Games in PAL regions) to release more than five games per year proving that Nintendo did not give two Fs about "Quality" as long as they were making money off of licensing fees. Nintendo did sue Tengen in 1992 "Atari Games Corp. v. Nintendo of America Inc." to be exact, and Tengen lost. The main reason they lost was due to the way they reversed engineered the 10NES Chip was not done in a clean lab way so they lost the Fair Use clause. They had to stop all sales of the NES titles, but by then it was kinda too late. They also had to pay for damages too.
@@cmos85 Thank you for doing this. The "WTF"ing I did when you ended the Tengen conversation by skipping the meat of the scenario, handwaving it as "who cares, eventually DMCA" really got to me. Literally, took me half an hour to write just this much. Not so much "just those words" but "just leaving it at those words"
Actually it's worse than that: they got a copy of the 10NES code from the library of Congress by lying and saying they were suing Nintendo and needed it for evidence. The court did not look kindly on this.
@@rfmerrill I would not say "worse" except through the eyes of the patent office. They showed that there was gross incompetence within their offices. Something we see daily within the government today was not something you'd see back then (they were better at burying it from the public eye). There are worse ways to get source codes with some having the worst excuses to why they did not clean lab it (Franklin Computer Corp. comes to mind). There are many more stories out there of worst ways to get a source code, but I ain't listing them all.
Tengen lied to the US Copyright Dept about needing the source code of the 10nes chip for a lawsuit. Once Tengen successfully reversed-engineered the 10nes chip, they called theirs the "Rabbit." If you check out the channel "The Gaming Historian" he did an in-depth video about Tengen. Regarding Tetris, when Tengen lost the lawsuit, they had to destroy all copies they had in stock. It is a damn shame because Tengen's Tetris is a far superior version
nintendo kept adding diodes and resistors to the system to thwart the carts that "stun" the lockout chip. by the time the final version of the front loader came out, they added 1K resistors and diodes to the lines to block that pulses that stunned it. The switch on the camerica games actually disables the lockout defeater in the "A" position, which is for use with the top loader. If you keep the switch in the B position it will draw a large amount of power and will probably blow up the circuit in the cartridge if left on for any length of time. Nintendo shorted out some of the lockout pins on the cartridge connector for the top loader since it doesn't have the chip any more. AVE's defeater is kind of interesting, there is a patent on how it works- they end up sending random pulses to the chip in the system and it somehow sort of just works to stun it. Wisdom tree has a bunch of different methods it uses in an attempt to defeat it- this is why you are instructed to wait up to 9 flashes for the system to start- it is trying different methods. And tengen's chip is not a clone of the original, weirdly enough- it's a purpose built CPU with different code, but it is indeed based on the purloined 10NES code which landed them in hot water ultimately.
Tengen/Atari Games was a separate company from Atari, Inc. by the time the NES was released as a result of the video game crash. Warner sold the home and computer division of Atari to Jack Tramiel while still owning the arcade division, which was renamed Atari Games. Since Atari Games couldn’t use the Atari name to sell console games, they named their home division Tengen.
I was going to bring this up, but I see you did so already. I feel like this fact gets overlooked far more often than it should, but it does spark a question - how did Midway arrange for games from both companies to be on Arcade's Greatest Hits: The Atari Collection 2? Most of the games on that compilation are by Atari Games, whose library was owned by Midway at the time, but it also includes Millipede and Crystal Castles, which were products of the original company.
@@ThunderFist1978 As far as I can tell, it was simply a matter of Midway licensing those games from Atari Inc. or Hasbro (the game’s release was just after JTS sold those assets to Hasbro). If the former did the licensing, it’s probably because JTS had no real interest in the video game market, but Hasbro licensing those rights makes little sense IMO.
It annoys me how you haven't blown up yet. I really love your videos. Re Super Noah's Ark, I remember looking into this a few years ago, and I understand that the idea of Id providing the source code to Wisdom Tree out of spite is a fun idea, but is debatable at best, and untrue at worst. By that time, Id were moving on from Wolfenstein and were allowing other companies to use the engine. To my knowledge, Wisdom Tree just acquired it like everyone else. That said, maybe Id were charging and waived the fee for Wisdom Tree? It's certainly possible. In any case, I genuinely lit up when I saw you'd posted. Please keep with it. You're awesome.
Tengen initially went around the lockout chip due to a shortage of IC chips during the 80s. Basically since Nintendo had to manufacture the games and couldn't get the chips, Tengen was unable to sell as many copies as there was demand. Before making unlicensed copies, Tengen went to Nintendo and asked permission to manufacture their own cartridges and were shut down.
I just got recommended this channel and while I do watch a lot of hardware and old videogame related material, I hope it’s a sign your channel is going to grow soon
I have seen your content a lot lately and I really like it. Reminds me of the older days of YT where people made a lot of content talking about 80s and early 90s video games, movies, and comics even if that popularity began because of AVGN, NC, and Linkara.
I think Galoob also made some Game Genies but I’m pretty sure the Game Genie I have is Camerica and my favourite Camerica game is Big Nose The Caveman which ironically doesn’t have any Game Genie codes considering both the game and the Game Genie were made by the same company
I think in the UK (and presumably the EU) the things were made by Galoob and distributed by Codemasters (who got sued, I think, but won) and they'd had a record for making unlicenced games for the Sega megadrive which enabled four player gameplay (micromachines AIR)
@@Metal_Maxineyeah and in Canada the Game Genie was made by Camerica the funny thing is though my NES Game Genie is made by Camerica but my SNES Game Genie is made by Galoob
I was lucky or unlucky enough that my local video store carried the color dreams games, after the first one I should have known but as a kid I was a sucker for odd things and the cartridges just looked so different.
Love the tv man. Had the exact one labeled curtas mathas in the living room growing up in the late 80s. I think they sold rebranded RCA and Motorola stuff. Great time
Also, there is a financial issue. You have to order the cartridges from Nintendo to make you own games (so another way, Nitnendo was getting a cut). And the orders has to be per batch of 1000. You could oder 2k, 20k, 54k, but not 3250 cartridges - paid ahead - so you may have cartridges left that you already paid for...
Since Camerica was an unlicensed company, they had to use what they had to have their games run on the NES. And they did a pretty good job. Camerica's best game for the NES is Micro Machines. If you have not played it, it is a must.
Ive been looking for it. I remember seeing micro machines in a shop when i was 17. I wondered why the game cartridge looked different. First time i ever saw a camerica game
Wisdom Tree games were (mostly) bangers. Exodus (shown) and it's sequel, Joshua, were excellent puzzle games where you even had "weapon" upgrades, special weapons, good stuff. Spiritual Warfare was "what if Zelda, but we used Christian iconography?" Multiple biomes, needing certain items to be able to progress, boss fights that required a modicum of thought to be, and always loved how sometimes when you fruited an enemy, there's was a small chance that a demon would spawn from there body and rush at you. And I don't care what people say about Noah's Ark, little baby me loved figuring out how to catch all the animals, remembering where all the food items were, good times. We had three Nintendo's, two big boxes and one top loader, and never had any problems with any of our Wisdom Tree games.
The Nintendo definition of "Unlicensed" means they didn't make any money nor take any money for the game. They tried to scare consumers after Tengen got around the lockout chip & that's when the Seal was invented. Just clip pin 4 of the 10NES chip.
I feel like it has always been known how poor these games are in quality, but occasionally one of these games pops out at me as actually being decent. There are 2 Camerica games, Bee 52 and Super Robin Hood; and I don't think they are all that bad of games. That especially holds true when comparing them to a game like Raid 2020. I have never been able to find Wisdom Tree games outside of huge gaming conventions. They just don't pop up at local game stores around me. Thus, I don't have any of them.
Tetris was the best unlisenced nes game ever😁 By the way, the footage you did shown from noach’s ark is sadly NOT the snes version, it’s the steam version, that’s because it does have textures on both floors & ceilings wich the snes version sadly doesn’t have,and i didn’t knew about the steam version of it damit🙁
Start of your video spoke about Nintendo not wanting shovelware flooding its console; have you visited the EShop for Switch in 2024? What happened?! Side note. Only 1 in 10 kids in my neighbourhood had Nintendo; the rest had Commodore 64. Ppl were spreading copied games quicker than 2020 Covid, but i would have the last laugh selling my NES library for a fortune in 2022, heh.
I wouldnt call bad NES games shovelware. Most of them were a product of a developer that didnt know how to make video games. Shovelware is specifically for the company to make a quick buck. One tried, the other did not
Nintendo really wouldn't have cared about the quality if you coughed up enough money for their licensing fees. Examples: Deadly Towers, Hydlide, Conan, and virtually any Hi Tech or LJN published game just to name a few.
It's important to be listing your sources for videos like this. For something like the Super Noah's Ark 3D situation, I remember the AVGN episode explicitly saying it was "according to the rumors." That isn't exactly a good way to go about it either, but sometimes you simply don't have enough concrete evidence for something, so you wanna make that distinction for clarification. You don't wanna run the risk of spreading misinformation. Reading into books and other various sources also has the benefit of discovering even more information to add nuance to your already-established arguments and can also potentially lead to new discoveries. I also like the idea of presenting gameplay as cam-recorded footage, but the framing and angles are a bit awkward. I think you might be trying to avoid some kind of glare from your light source. You can dim your lights a bit using pieces of paper or whatever else will do the trick. Ideally you wanna hold a pretty straight shot unless there is a specific composition you have in mind that would be complimented using a more unorthodox camera angle. Games that have a lot of blank black space, like Pacman which you show in the video, is gonna reflect more of your background onto the TV. What you could do to get around this is pre-record some gameplay using a capture card and playback that footage on your TV away from it so you won't appear in the reflection.
I do want to get a capture card at some point. I did research Super Noahs Ark 3D for awhile, and was confident the story was true until after i uploaded the video. Im now realizing that wasnt the case. Sorry about that
When these counterfeit games came out way back when. I never knew it was counterfeit I thought it just look kooler then regular nes games. ps: RBI⚾️ TENGEN was and still "IS" the Best Unlicensed Game #NES #Retro #RBI
That 5 games limit was one of the reasons we didn't get a lot of Japanese exclusives from Konami, Capcom, Tecmo, etc. They had to cherry pick what titles would make the trip and the following year, the ones that got left out were old news.
Wow so wierd.i watched a video bout the church games.how they retooled alot of thier previous games to churchy games.your report is better and more...hip...id say....hip as in cool n funny.
Not a bad video, but there are some inaccuracies. Atari did not have "licensed games" like the way Nintendo did back in the days of the 2600 so there was no "unlicensed games". There were "Licenses" to port games from IP holders, but that was between publishers, and the IP holder. Atari never set up a system like that until after Nintendo did it. So even the 7800 did not do it either only the Lynx & Jaguar did it that way to a degree.
There was another publisher that followed the rules, but produced more than five games per year. Konami created Ultra Games (Palcom Games in PAL regions) to release more than five games per year proving that Nintendo did not give two Fs about "Quality" as long as they were making money off of licensing fees.
Nintendo did sue Tengen in 1992 "Atari Games Corp. v. Nintendo of America Inc." to be exact, and Tengen lost. The main reason they lost was due to the way they reversed engineered the 10NES Chip was not done in a clean lab way so they lost the Fair Use clause. They had to stop all sales of the NES titles, but by then it was kinda too late. They also had to pay for damages too.
Im actually going to pin this for clarification. Thanks!
@@cmos85 Thank you for doing this. The "WTF"ing I did when you ended the Tengen conversation by skipping the meat of the scenario, handwaving it as "who cares, eventually DMCA" really got to me.
Literally, took me half an hour to write just this much. Not so much "just those words" but "just leaving it at those words"
Actually it's worse than that: they got a copy of the 10NES code from the library of Congress by lying and saying they were suing Nintendo and needed it for evidence. The court did not look kindly on this.
@@rfmerrill I would not say "worse" except through the eyes of the patent office. They showed that there was gross incompetence within their offices. Something we see daily within the government today was not something you'd see back then (they were better at burying it from the public eye). There are worse ways to get source codes with some having the worst excuses to why they did not clean lab it (Franklin Computer Corp. comes to mind). There are many more stories out there of worst ways to get a source code, but I ain't listing them all.
Tengen lied to the US Copyright Dept about needing the source code of the 10nes chip for a lawsuit. Once Tengen successfully reversed-engineered the 10nes chip, they called theirs the "Rabbit." If you check out the channel "The Gaming Historian" he did an in-depth video about Tengen. Regarding Tetris, when Tengen lost the lawsuit, they had to destroy all copies they had in stock. It is a damn shame because Tengen's Tetris is a far superior version
nintendo kept adding diodes and resistors to the system to thwart the carts that "stun" the lockout chip. by the time the final version of the front loader came out, they added 1K resistors and diodes to the lines to block that pulses that stunned it. The switch on the camerica games actually disables the lockout defeater in the "A" position, which is for use with the top loader. If you keep the switch in the B position it will draw a large amount of power and will probably blow up the circuit in the cartridge if left on for any length of time. Nintendo shorted out some of the lockout pins on the cartridge connector for the top loader since it doesn't have the chip any more. AVE's defeater is kind of interesting, there is a patent on how it works- they end up sending random pulses to the chip in the system and it somehow sort of just works to stun it. Wisdom tree has a bunch of different methods it uses in an attempt to defeat it- this is why you are instructed to wait up to 9 flashes for the system to start- it is trying different methods. And tengen's chip is not a clone of the original, weirdly enough- it's a purpose built CPU with different code, but it is indeed based on the purloined 10NES code which landed them in hot water ultimately.
Unlicensed NES devs were like:
"Let's put blackjack on NES, gotta make sure to make new gambling addicts"
Tengen/Atari Games was a separate company from Atari, Inc. by the time the NES was released as a result of the video game crash. Warner sold the home and computer division of Atari to Jack Tramiel while still owning the arcade division, which was renamed Atari Games. Since Atari Games couldn’t use the Atari name to sell console games, they named their home division Tengen.
Thanks. The sources i used were kind of vague about this
The Tengen brand only lasted about 7 years, after which it was just "Time Warner Interactive".
The word Tengen comes from the game Go, so does Atari.
I was going to bring this up, but I see you did so already. I feel like this fact gets overlooked far more often than it should, but it does spark a question - how did Midway arrange for games from both companies to be on Arcade's Greatest Hits: The Atari Collection 2? Most of the games on that compilation are by Atari Games, whose library was owned by Midway at the time, but it also includes Millipede and Crystal Castles, which were products of the original company.
@@ThunderFist1978 As far as I can tell, it was simply a matter of Midway licensing those games from Atari Inc. or Hasbro (the game’s release was just after JTS sold those assets to Hasbro). If the former did the licensing, it’s probably because JTS had no real interest in the video game market, but Hasbro licensing those rights makes little sense IMO.
It annoys me how you haven't blown up yet. I really love your videos. Re Super Noah's Ark, I remember looking into this a few years ago, and I understand that the idea of Id providing the source code to Wisdom Tree out of spite is a fun idea, but is debatable at best, and untrue at worst. By that time, Id were moving on from Wolfenstein and were allowing other companies to use the engine. To my knowledge, Wisdom Tree just acquired it like everyone else. That said, maybe Id were charging and waived the fee for Wisdom Tree? It's certainly possible. In any case, I genuinely lit up when I saw you'd posted. Please keep with it. You're awesome.
holy shit this is probably the best thing i have seen on the site in a while, really made me feel like a kid watching reviews in 2013 again
Tengen initially went around the lockout chip due to a shortage of IC chips during the 80s. Basically since Nintendo had to manufacture the games and couldn't get the chips, Tengen was unable to sell as many copies as there was demand. Before making unlicensed copies, Tengen went to Nintendo and asked permission to manufacture their own cartridges and were shut down.
I just got recommended this channel and while I do watch a lot of hardware and old videogame related material, I hope it’s a sign your channel is going to grow soon
I have seen your content a lot lately and I really like it. Reminds me of the older days of YT where people made a lot of content talking about 80s and early 90s video games, movies, and comics even if that popularity began because of AVGN, NC, and Linkara.
Honestly, the Tengen games are the only unliscensed games that are worth playing.
Absolutely. Tengen Tetris is without question the best NES Tetris. Klax is another really good one that comes to mind.
Ive been looking for that one for awhile@@BasedPatriot403
Micro Machines from Camerica/Codemasters is great fun.
Tengen had a pretty good track record. Tetris, Gauntlet, Super Sprint, Rolling Thunder, etc.
Tengen's Ms. Pac-Man is lightyears better than Namco's NES port
So happy the almighty algorithm put this video on my feed. Subbed!
I'm glad that UA-cam randomly had this in my recommendation
I think Galoob also made some Game Genies but I’m pretty sure the Game Genie I have is Camerica and my favourite Camerica game is Big Nose The Caveman which ironically doesn’t have any Game Genie codes considering both the game and the Game Genie were made by the same company
I think in the UK (and presumably the EU) the things were made by Galoob and distributed by Codemasters (who got sued, I think, but won) and they'd had a record for making unlicenced games for the Sega megadrive which enabled four player gameplay (micromachines AIR)
@@Metal_Maxineyeah and in Canada the Game Genie was made by Camerica the funny thing is though my NES Game Genie is made by Camerica but my SNES Game Genie is made by Galoob
I was lucky or unlucky enough that my local video store carried the color dreams games, after the first one I should have known but as a kid I was a sucker for odd things and the cartridges just looked so different.
I love finding small channels like this where it feels like my likes really matter.
Super Game actually made a better unlicensed port of Aladdin than the licensed port.
I still have my 31-in-1 bootleg cart and it always has been my fav.
They won't damage your NES. The unlicensed carts only slightly over volted the 10 NES chip
Love the tv man. Had the exact one labeled curtas mathas in the living room growing up in the late 80s. I think they sold rebranded RCA and Motorola stuff. Great time
Also, there is a financial issue. You have to order the cartridges from Nintendo to make you own games (so another way, Nitnendo was getting a cut). And the orders has to be per batch of 1000. You could oder 2k, 20k, 54k, but not 3250 cartridges - paid ahead - so you may have cartridges left that you already paid for...
Since Camerica was an unlicensed company, they had to use what they had to have their games run on the NES. And they did a pretty good job. Camerica's best game for the NES is Micro Machines. If you have not played it, it is a must.
Ive been looking for it. I remember seeing micro machines in a shop when i was 17. I wondered why the game cartridge looked different. First time i ever saw a camerica game
Tengen had some good games for the NES (Gauntlet, PacMan, Klax and I preferred their version of Tetris to the Nintendo one).
Id did not "gave away the source code", they licensed it like they did for many other companies and their games.
9:18 I don’t know how much research you did on this video, but Tengen was Atari, hiding behind a different name to avoid bad publicity.
Some people say that the Tegen version of Tetris was better than the NES version
Kinda was by the number of game modes and stats. The only thing the Nintendo version had on them was full screen and better backgrounds.
@@leefischer5814yeah
Another great vid! I liked the ID joke :)
i love your videos
This guy is really good!
Wisdom Tree games were (mostly) bangers. Exodus (shown) and it's sequel, Joshua, were excellent puzzle games where you even had "weapon" upgrades, special weapons, good stuff.
Spiritual Warfare was "what if Zelda, but we used Christian iconography?" Multiple biomes, needing certain items to be able to progress, boss fights that required a modicum of thought to be, and always loved how sometimes when you fruited an enemy, there's was a small chance that a demon would spawn from there body and rush at you.
And I don't care what people say about Noah's Ark, little baby me loved figuring out how to catch all the animals, remembering where all the food items were, good times.
We had three Nintendo's, two big boxes and one top loader, and never had any problems with any of our Wisdom Tree games.
I don't use Twitter but I agree the x-ness of it is stupid.
I still think people should do more modern games, PC or this century.
I totally dug this video!
Totally subbin’ yo!
The Nintendo definition of "Unlicensed" means they didn't make any money nor take any money for the game. They tried to scare consumers after Tengen got around the lockout chip & that's when the Seal was invented.
Just clip pin 4 of the 10NES chip.
I have heared about clipping one of the pins in there, but i dont trust myself enough to do it to my first ever console
I feel like it has always been known how poor these games are in quality, but occasionally one of these games pops out at me as actually being decent. There are 2 Camerica games, Bee 52 and Super Robin Hood; and I don't think they are all that bad of games. That especially holds true when comparing them to a game like Raid 2020. I have never been able to find Wisdom Tree games outside of huge gaming conventions. They just don't pop up at local game stores around me. Thus, I don't have any of them.
Most of the games I showed in this video I specifically bought on eBay just to film them. I havent seen that many either
Camerica made a top-down shooter-type game called "Firehawk" that I thought was pretty good.
I really like your voice, you sound like Mister Plinket
Tetris was the best unlisenced nes game ever😁
By the way, the footage you did shown from noach’s ark is sadly NOT the snes version, it’s the steam version, that’s because it does have textures on both floors & ceilings wich the snes version sadly doesn’t have,and i didn’t knew about the steam version of it damit🙁
Start of your video spoke about Nintendo not wanting shovelware flooding its console;
have you visited the EShop for Switch in 2024? What happened?!
Side note. Only 1 in 10 kids in my neighbourhood had Nintendo;
the rest had Commodore 64. Ppl were spreading copied games
quicker than 2020 Covid, but i would have the last laugh selling
my NES library for a fortune in 2022, heh.
I wouldnt call bad NES games shovelware. Most of them were a product of a developer that didnt know how to make video games. Shovelware is specifically for the company to make a quick buck. One tried, the other did not
Nintendo really wouldn't have cared about the quality if you coughed up enough money for their licensing fees. Examples: Deadly Towers, Hydlide, Conan, and virtually any Hi Tech or LJN published game just to name a few.
It's important to be listing your sources for videos like this. For something like the Super Noah's Ark 3D situation, I remember the AVGN episode explicitly saying it was "according to the rumors." That isn't exactly a good way to go about it either, but sometimes you simply don't have enough concrete evidence for something, so you wanna make that distinction for clarification. You don't wanna run the risk of spreading misinformation. Reading into books and other various sources also has the benefit of discovering even more information to add nuance to your already-established arguments and can also potentially lead to new discoveries.
I also like the idea of presenting gameplay as cam-recorded footage, but the framing and angles are a bit awkward. I think you might be trying to avoid some kind of glare from your light source. You can dim your lights a bit using pieces of paper or whatever else will do the trick. Ideally you wanna hold a pretty straight shot unless there is a specific composition you have in mind that would be complimented using a more unorthodox camera angle. Games that have a lot of blank black space, like Pacman which you show in the video, is gonna reflect more of your background onto the TV. What you could do to get around this is pre-record some gameplay using a capture card and playback that footage on your TV away from it so you won't appear in the reflection.
I do want to get a capture card at some point. I did research Super Noahs Ark 3D for awhile, and was confident the story was true until after i uploaded the video. Im now realizing that wasnt the case. Sorry about that
just wanna wish the best for you and see you improve! looking forward to seeing what you have in store
hug nice vid
I like Tangen they are excellent. 😀👍🎮
When these counterfeit games came out way back when. I never knew it was counterfeit I thought it just look kooler then regular nes games. ps: RBI⚾️ TENGEN was and still "IS" the Best Unlicensed Game #NES #Retro #RBI
Jesus loves you!
I've never understand why try bypass the 5 games per year rule or cic chip. Obey the rules or get the fuck out of my pocket.
That 5 games limit was one of the reasons we didn't get a lot of Japanese exclusives from Konami, Capcom, Tecmo, etc. They had to cherry pick what titles would make the trip and the following year, the ones that got left out were old news.
@@AtariBorn so they filtered the games therselves and gave the west only the best.
@@gizaha only if youre being optimistic. In some cases actual garbage got prioritized over good games that stayed in Japan.
Wow so wierd.i watched a video bout the church games.how they retooled alot of thier previous games to churchy games.your report is better and more...hip...id say....hip as in cool n funny.
You should definitely eat more
If anything i need to eat less
👍 Great Video thank you!