You Won't Fall For Bad Studies After Watching This|
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- Опубліковано 16 січ 2018
- I did try commenting Raleigh's video, but my comments kept going "poof", so this is my response regarding the credibility of the studies. I do find it concerning that so many people felt made to feel guilty for riding in bits or made to feel like no matter what they do, bitless can never cause pain. This isn't a response to Raleigh or who she is as a person, it's a response to the ISSUE she raised and the studies she cited and why they aren't conclusive.
THE BIT DEBATE: • THE BIT DEBATE
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STOP USING BITS IT'S EVIL MY OTTB SHOT UP MY HOUSE BECAUSE HE DIDN'T LIKE THE BIT HE SAID USE HACKAMORE OR DEATH AND I CHOSE DEATH GET OVER IT STOP USING THEM THEY R SO BAD THEY CAUSE HORSES TO SHOOT U :-(
Lpsgogo this comment is a winner
sry but whoever commented this is my new fav
What the heck😂
Lol what
Hi.
Side note- Absolutely feel free to tell me how awful I am for riding in bits. Unlike these internet trainers, internet veterinarians and internet equine scientists, I actually pay a real veterinarian to perform dental work on my horses on a routine basis. For those of you who aren't aware what that means, if there were oral damage to either of my horses' mouths, it would be found by the actual professional... who, you know, actually went to school, understands anatomy and knows what they're talking about. So, feel FREE to go off at me. I sleep very well at night knowing I listen to professionals instead of big-mouthed people on the internet who are too egotistical to get with the times, educate themselves and listen to what modern day science is telling us.
Shelby Dennis I love the sass😂 also yet another great video!
Thank you!
Someone who doesn't pretend to be someone they're not. We need more people like you Shelby!
Shelby Dennis.
Another great video. Keep doing what you do, girl. I'll support you 100%.
quick question: how long did that paragraph take you😂😂😂😂 lysm❤❤❤
Raleigh, if you’ve watched this or are considering responding in any way, this is my invitation to you to send me a photo or video of you riding your own horse in a nice, proper, loose stretching frame like I post of Archie in the community tab. We would love to see if you can get similar results with a happy, properly working horse in a bitless bridle since you like to preach that it’s impossible to get that bitted
Ahhh you’re an icon omg
💙💙💙. Thank you for making this video! I use a French link . And I keep getting the same bitless saying I'm abusing my mare, while the person attacking has their mechanical hackamore way to low on their face. When I can ride without anything just using leg cues.
Amber Reedy.
I use a French link on my mare too. I always get hate from bit less riders even though I'm not the one abusing my horse. It annoys me because people think they know my horse so well but even if I wanted to I couldn't switch her to bit less anyway because English bit less bridles use poll pressure and my mare goes into a panic with steady pressure on her face.
Shelby Dennis you're a savage😂👍😆
If a horse won't drop into the outline and your horse likes to carry his self is a special way. my cob likes trotting with her head high and Is i try get her to lower her head then she becomes unbalanced. Bits a bad as METAL doesn't belong with horse you stick 😂
Just remembering that time when a girl hated on your video of Milo attacking a chicken, saying that he was lashing out because of the bit. You were bridless. Ahhh... the things people say to make their point. Lmao.
Okay I'm new here but: HE ATTACKED A CHICKEN??!! omg lmfao😂😂😂
Dr Cook’s study is not really fact based evidence... it’s more correlation based evidence. Correlation does not always equal causation. Why aren’t the bit haters fighting against poorly fit saddles or poorly wrapped legs, that in my opinion, can cause much more harm to a horse than a heavy hand in a rubber double jointed snaffle? Educated horse people listen to their horses & certified trainers, not to online trainers with no credentials. To say absolutes, like “always” and “never,” in a debate especially when talking about science and animals, immediately discredits an argument. I’m so happy that there are still logical and deep thinkers that do their homework and don’t just click on the first link on google to prove their point.
bethany longfellow Great comment🔆
Yezzzzz well said
And he's trying to sell a bitless bridle I don't trust people if they're trying to sell something
@Kitty Yes if they're trying to sell something and say "facts" about it it's an unreliable source
@Kitty Yes the moon is not a star
i ride in a bit and everyone raleighs post was attacking me and swearing and saying i abuse my horse. it was horrible. bitless or not who cares as long as horse and rider is happy
Sammi Cee Equestrian omg same. The people doing that is lacking common sense . Specially as she doesn't even have the hackamore fitted properly
+IDREWTHISJUSTTOBEPAPYRUS The Great Papyrus yup swearing at ME the comments were to me. as i commented first saying i ride in a bit and then people were being very rude.
+IDREWTHISJUSTTOBEPAPYRUS The Great Papyrus i dont care who swears in a video. but swearing at someone is rude and not needed.
You are not alone, went to one of think like a horse's videos and said that bits and headcollars were not abuse, I did not swear in it, the reply I got were "HOW ABOUT I PUT A BIT IN YOUR MOUTH AND YANK ON YOU, YOU F****** IDIOT", And another person came and gave me a list of things "wrong" with the trainers, she said things like "she is too big for that horse," and "she was using a bit and spurs". Almost all of the people who replies used dumb arguments and swears, and they didn't even use the stars for the swears. I don't know how someone could believe those arguments.
I know right. I just want to make a video about it so bad but idk where my phone is ): once I find it though, THAT VIDEO SHITTING ALL OVER PEOPLE LIKE THINK LIKE A HORSE AND RALEIGH!
Literally my horses are bitless or 99% bitless and I still agree with you and disagree with Raleigh! Raleigh gives bitless users a bad name and image too but also puts out false information. The dr cook bridle does not give release immediately when the reins are released unlike many bits which will give instant release when the reins are dropped completely.
Gives bitless users a bad name? Oops, typo! Forgiven.
She gives bitted riders a bad name
And it's ironic that Raleigh says people who ride in bits think they're bits are god but that's what she thinks about her bitless bridle.😂
Freya 1687 ikr
Considering I’ve fallen off multiple times with a bit (entirely my fault, both times bareback, slipped getting off) and bruised one thing of another each time, theY are not God 😂 If. Bits were God horse riding would be so much safer when training a horse under saddle lol
When you want Shelby to train every single one of your horses and help teach you to train horses but you’re in a different country 😭
There's a nice recent video by Elisa Wallace, "Seven Essential Horse Bits", which provides good information to supplement this one.
That video is great. I also how she actually TRIES bits on the horses when she’s deciding what to use. She makes it clear she most frequently uses double broken bits, but if a horse doesn’t go well in that or a straight bar she will try a single-jointed and she’s straight up that some horses work better in it than they did in others and so, logically, probably feel more comfortable in it. Every horse is different, so even the wholesale rejection of single-jointed bits is incorrect.
At the riding school I go to, they always try on different bits and also see if the horses like them, some of the ponies actually stood with the bit in their mouth and just let it be there because they thought it was comfortable
Yes both are amazing experienced UA-camrs
Yes! I love Elisa Wallace! Also, Bernie Taurig has a great 30 minute long video that covers just about every bit and the ones he likes and hates haha
Raleigh. Girl, did you actually read that paper? It's for therapeutic riding which is not the same as normal riding. Straw grasping.
Thank you Shelby, I was already tired/annoyed of all the 11 year olds commenting everywhere using the bits are bad hashtag
Navy Equine hahaha ive seen that hashtag everywere
We can't use that "study" as anything but a joke, honestly.
Sierra Jade That study ain’t a joke it can be pretty serious so stop taking it as “Joke”
Aubree Lee A study so poorly conducted and conducted solely for the purpose of advertisement (this is the big one) isn't in the place to be taken seriously. It was conducted to sell a product, not to present unbiased facts.
Aubree Lee Are you one of Raleigh's fangirls?
It is a joke because for a scientific paper even for school, you would 100% be made fun of if you only sourced yourself and one other person 😂 @aubree lee
All bits do is sit there, all the horses at my stables wear bits and none of them have ever got a mouth injury. Bit less bridles cause as much damage as bits do if you yank.
*stares at iPad waiting for response video notification from Raleigh*
She can't respond because Shelby has actual facts and unbiased studies and information, unlike Raleigh 😂
Yesssss. I tried a doctor cook bit less bridle and a hackamore. my horse was so angry, swishing tail, ears pinned... Over a long time, plus my trainer rode him in it and she has 35 years of experience. I took it off and rode with my normal bit, (loose ring double jointed rubber) and he changed instantly. It’s not my saddle, it was fitted to him, it’s not him, he is healthy. Thank you for posting this!
He was angry because he wasn't used to it, but if you had done a much more real study, which can span over several months, I'm sure you would have found your results.
What’s kind of funny is that I have done that with my horse in moultiple bridles yet he doesn’t like bit Less! He tosses his head acts out and is very tense yet in a bitted rubber hyper flex he’s 100% okay.
@@dearfauxpas forcing a horse to wear something they don't like is not okay, yes she could push bitless on him an in a few months he would learn not to fight back and just submit. That's not really ethical though is it?
I think they meant that the horse has to get used to it in order to accept it. Most people don't just put a bit in the mouth of a horse that has never been ridden in a bit, jump up on them and expect them to be comfortable and know the ques without previous training from the ground and just letting them feel the bit in their mouth to get used to it. Still it's usual to read that people have put on bitless and expected the horse to know what to do without ever training them what the ques mean. Sure bitless can be more intuitive for the horse than a bit (sidepull is really similar to a halter), but you should still make sure that the horse reacts to soft ques and is comfortable with it before starting to ride them. When you ride bitless you also have to change the way you ride, you shouldn't ride with the typical english style constant rein contact but have to switch to a looser more relaxed rein contact where you only use your reins when you ask for something and release the pressure when they respond correctly. I'm pretty sure most horses can learn to go well on bitless but it's mostly a training thing and everyone might not have the knowledge to be able to teach their horse to go well on one in a fair way and then a bit might be the better option (just like all dogs can learn to walk beside you without a leash but you might still use one because you do not know how to teach it well enough yet).
He’s not angry, he’s having fun because he feels more free without the restriction of a bit. Some horses need training to understand that a bitless bridle still means work. Horses that act like that are just used to being restricted by a bit and now all of a sudden they have this freedom that they didn’t have before. He was probably pinning his ears because he thought he was in a halter and halters usually don’t mean that someone is gonna get on their back.
PREACH THY BRETHREN
Valorie Poirier ahh love this comment 😍 preaaach!
In the Netherlands we say "There are horsepeople and people with horses". You seem like a horseperson, and Raleigh like a person with a horse.
JudixCovers I love that saying!
Both horsepeople just with different thoughts about bits. Raleigh is amazing with bitless riding because she knows how to use a hackamore. Shelby is amazing using both because she knows how to use them. They're both good for their horses. Bits can be used for abuse but bitless can also be abusing. Don't say Raleigh is a person with a horse. She believes in different methods than Shelby
@@maaikewenting6354 lol no she does not, Link is always hollow and evading her hands. He moves terrible and has no muscles at all, Raleigh keeps her horse obese, trims his hooves poorly by herself (which should ONLY be done by a professional since she is fucking his feet up severely) not to mention how bad his coat looks, my fat draft has a shinier wintercoat than Link's summer coat and that really says a lot. A horse in a nice condtion will have shiny fur not run around with a wintercoat in the summer.
Truth is Raleigh knows very very little about horses and could benefit from actually listening to the advice of professionals. It is a shame that her ego is bigger than her wanting to do right by her horse, She really has an amazing bond with Link. But I personally can't overlook the fact that she is neglecting him in many ways and not taking care of him properly, and she's doing so out of wilfull ignorance. She could seek out the knowledge but chooses not too because she wants to be a big shot on the internet. That is really fucked up in my opinion and she then also has the audacity to call other people abusers, like I have zero respect for that girl. Raleigh will never be a horseperson unless she get's her act together and actually learn about horses until then she will always be a person with a horse...
@@Amanda-rv5hz I'm glad you're so worried about Link. I'm in no position to judge who's good for his/her horse or not. And Raleigh can be rough. But personally I mostly agree with her opinion on the videos she shows us/get send from her viewers. Everyone has a different opinion on how to treat horses. But I'm glad that you know a lot about a horse's health and you don't talk nonsense. Excuse me for any mistakes I made, English isn't my first language. Have a great day :)
Maaike Wenting from what I’ve seen of her horse he looks in poor condition. I’m not sure if she’s actually had a vet out and has him in a program but he definitely needs something. He could be a hard keeper but even hard keepers can find a way to keep them looking good and doing his feet her self is plainly animal abuse. I might give my boy a quick shaping up between farrier visits BECAUSE I worked for a farrier and learned the ropes. I don’t actually trim just if he gets a crack or is flaring (he rarely does except when he is stiff in his stifle from slipping in pasture last year but since hang had any flares in his feet)
THANK YOU
HER VIDEO ANGERED ME
she can't use a biased sight and claim it to be valid
and she's only looking for the bad not any good. and she's not looking at the bad of hackamores, only good
So nice to watch a calm, intelligent , factual video that doesn't have a swear word every other second
Another point about bitless riding that is often ignored is the fact that it is much harder to get a horse to work in a correct outline, work over his back and carry himself without a bit. Of course it is possible but much harder to achieve even by excellent riders and trainers. The consequence is that many horses being ridden bitless walk around with their heads in the air and their backs not engaged, this causes much more pain and damage to the horse than a bit in their mouth.
Depends on the horse though. one of the horses I ride is extremely difficult to get relaxed in a bit, carries his head high most of the time with it. But in a hackamore he relaxes and stretches down a lot easier. And I'm by no means an excellent rider or trainer :p
But I do agree that a lot of horses don't go well bitless but in my experience if your horse is schooled well it doesn't matter. We had to switch to bitless on two of our horses a couple of years ago (one had a teeth issue the other a jaw issue) both worked correct in bitless bridles if ridden correctly though both tended to be a bit heavy in the front if you didn't use enough leg. But both of them were very well schooled dressage horses so that's probably why we were able to switch without any issues.
I personally prefer schooling horses in bits because it makes it easier for them to learn proper frame and flex especially if they're young horses. Older well trained horses should be able to work well in both but you should always pick the alternative that the horse prefers and works best with :)
I wanna see She Who Shall Not Be Named clap back to this.
I wanna see people watch her videos and think for a moment.
Awesome. EVERYONE was posting the link to your other bit video in Raleigh’s comments. Lol. I can’t watch your video yet, but, I’m pretty confident it’s going to be far more educational😊
Yes yes yes!!!!!! I’m a student and I need at least 20-25 sources MINIMUM on an undergrad paper, the dr cook study is so poorly done and biased
I think a lot of people are forgetting some key elements to their bits vs. bitless debates. First of all, your own horse is not the standard by which the entire horse industry is judged by. If your horse goes happily bitless or with a bit, that's great. if they can go completely bridleless, that's also great. But since we are talking about individual horses, people are presenting it as something akin to 'if I can do it, then anyone can/should be able to'. Which isn't always true because there are a number of reasons why individual riders or horses may not be able to do something others can. It could be disability, lack of training, other inexperience, maybe they aren't authorized to make tack changes if they're leasing a horse or if their own horse is boarded at a barn or maybe their trainer won't let them, etc.
That is why it's important to listen to knowledgeable horse people who base their understanding of horses off of equine biomechanics and scientific research to help form their opinions. It's also important to go with what the horse is most comfortable with. For some horses that might be a single-jointed snaffle. Others might go best in a double-jointed snaffle. Maybe some don't tolerate snaffles at all, maybe they prefer a curb. Some horses respond to tongue pressure more than others. Some horses can't stand anything in their mouths. The point is that every horse is an individual, just like every human is an individual.
Personally I don't really like analogies because I see them used incorrectly all the time and applied to things that have no correlation, but in this case I'm going to make an exception. Think about your skin for a moment. Are you hypersensitive to touch, or does it take a lot for you to notice something like a bug crawling around on you? Are you somewhere between those two options? I'm hypersensitive to touch, so if something brushes against my skin, I feel it and react to it immediately. Horses are the same way. Some of them might not be bothered by bits in their mouths. Some of them might be really bothered by a bit in their mouth no matter what kind it is. But you can't make a blanket statement and say that just because you felt something brush against your skin that everyone else would feel it exactly the same way, and it would be pretty rude if you were to just say something like 'a lock of hair just tickled my arm so therefore every human must be ticklish' and then someone who wasn't ticklish tried to tell you 'but i'm not ticklish' and you disagreed with them and said 'well I AM ticklish so you must be wrong because i just said that everyone is ticklish'.
It isn't fair of people like Raleigh or Rick Gore to essentially bully people into either forcing them to change their minds or forcing those who disagree to stay quiet by saying things like (i am paraphrasing here, this is what i personally inferred from Raleigh's video) 'i'm not saying you're a bad person if you ride with a bit, but also that is exactly what i am saying and if you disagree then too bad you're an ignorant horse abuser'. Particularly if the people they're targeting aren't doing anything inherently detrimental to the horse because there is no conclusive research that one option is superior to the other.
I am aware that bit abuse still a serious issue that I personally think needs to be addressed. But it needs to be by means that aren't simply making a youtube video claiming that all bits are always bad no matter what, pulling biased and inconclusive studies and representing them as irrefutable fact as well as distributing false information by presenting a matter of personal opinion as hard evidence when it isn't, and bullying those who disagree. If your issue is with those in the horse industry who misuse bits, then you need to take it up with the governing bodies of equestrian sports such as USEF and FEI and lobby for some kind of change within them instead of harassing minors or amateur riders online, because that isn't constructive, it's cyberbullying.
But I'm honestly less worried about people misusing bits and much more worried about the abuse and other manipulative tactics Raleigh and other equine activists have inflicted on so many young, impressionable people.
mlaenie Your comments are thoughtful, knowledgable and articulately expressed.
Omg wow that's a long comment
@@keiratritto5896 yes, it is. it's also over 2 years old. i'm...a little less wordy these days.
@@mlaenie4170 same 😆
I never liked that she never had credible evidence to back up her claims. I never really disliked her. I just don't like the fact that she concludes that bitless can work for every horse.
Chance&me no, any horse can go bit less but everyone is too stupid and lazy to train their horses bit less, they rather choose the easy way and make their horse suffer for their pleasure.
Juni&Sasha Sso you can't just throw on a bitless bridle & expect your horses to respond to it. sorry to burst your bubble, but some horses respond better with extra feel. I do ride bitless, because my horses previous owner rode her bitless & she is used to being ridden like that. I bet if you throw a bitless bridle on a horse trained with a bit, it would turn into a bucking bronco.
Liøness , Just Liøness almost every horse is trained bit less then transitioned to a bit, but if not, you can still train any horse bit less.
Juni&Sasha Sso you can train them bitless, but it takes time. you can't throw a bitless bridle on and expect results.
My horse can only be ridden bridleless or bitted due to trauma on her nose from a hackamore.
I think Shelby said this perfectly! Let people just ride in what they want and what they think is best for their horse. People know what is abuse and what is not. If you really don't like what people do even if you make a video these people are probably not going to change. Don't get me wrong I ride both my horses in bits and it is 100% on how you use it not what the bit is. Abuse also isn't when someone gets left behind jumping or when the horse takes off and bucks. Sometimes stuff happens and you accidentally tug on your horses face. Most people these days are so paranoid about it they ride with such a loose rein. I personally in my time most people you see riding are trying to ride the softest way possible for their horse to make them comfortable. This argument is so unnecessary but I am glad Shelby did make a video on it too address some of the issues in Raleigh's OPINION. No ones opinion is better than another they are all different but don't just hate on people to make your argument 'overule' someone else's.
No, people only know what is obviously abuse, but some cannot see behind the elegant, beauty of the amazing horse that sometimes acts out in rearing or kicking.
THANK YOU
BLESS YOU
WOW WHO KNEW SOMEONE COULD BE SO EDUCATED
No your SOO wrong just don’t say anymore no one wants to be embarrassed here.
+Dr. Fun yeah so shut up
Nicole B it‘s Not only education - its Common Sense and the ability to think for yourself. Unfortunatelly These People are quite rare these days.
I like the way you approached this,Raleigh has such harsh opinions about many things and I think that you stated the problems on both sides. I like either bits or bit-less. My horse rides without a bit most days, and I still think bit aren’t bad we should all step back and see that both sides could hurt your horse and you just have to be careful
Horse Girl That's why I stopped watching Think Like A Horse, because Rick puts out such harsh opinions and refuses to see the other side whatsoever, Raleigh is very similar.
Dance to the BaileyBeat Honestly I haven't been on his page in months, I couldn't stand all of his bullshit. I can't believe how many people follow him religiously he's so obviously full of crap. We just need more people in the horse world like Shelby.
If you feel like this, all the more reason to dislike his videos.
I agree with some things that Rick says, but yes he also has some strong opinions that I don’t agree with
The two main things I dislike are hating bits and tack and stuff, and also calling everyone idiots.
SAY🙏IT🙏LOUDER🙏FOR🙏THE🙏PEOPLE🙏IN🙏THE🙏BACK🙏
OMG THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THIS, YOU'RE A FREAKING QUEEN
omg y r u so mean to ralee
If you wrote in actual English you would maybe be taken more seriously.
It's a joke. I'm so sorry it flew right over your head. lmao
i has a red poneee n da blud maeks hem red t2
ohmahgod abuss
Do you speak english?
I primarily ride bitless, and I HATE Dr. Cook's or any crossunder type bridle! I had asked several people what to go for when switching bitless and they all said a Dr. Cook's. My horse completely ignored it. Pulling on it only crushes their head due to how the bridle is made. It's just a bad bridle.
Honestly prefer an English hackamore. I'm currently teaching myself and my horse to ride mainly from the leg so I don't touch the hack as often (because I know it's harsh), but even if I could get him to ride in anything I put on him without a reaction, I would never use a crossunder ever again. It's such a bad design.
Armored Wings ikr! It also doesn't have good or immediate release of pressure
Armored Wings omg your the first person I've seen on here that actually does bit less !!!! Ur amazing, I wish other people could see the truth, but they're to blind.
Juni&Sasha Sso she said primarily lmao 😂
if you're worried about the pressure, you could teach in a halter with some reins while you find the best fit for you. I don't actually know what mine is called, but it's not harsh at all and doesn't even have any of that leverage shit. I'll try to google what mine is called in a little bit. My horse's previous owner rode her bitless, so I ride her like that in the exact same bridle. the previous owner had to stop horseback riding & gave me all her tack, so it was super easy for her to get used to so much sudden change.
Liøness , Just Liøness I've done that, it works, but my horse responded better in the hackamore unfortunately. He had really bad "brakes" and I'd had to really pull the reins hard in a halter. The hackamore he understood better as he was accustomed to poll pressure. And yes I tried teaching him to stop on command using treat training, horsemanship, anything I could think of, but it's one thing he just could not comprehend. Using leg with him really decreased having to use heavy hands and I could use a loose rein for most of our rides.
But since this comment I retired my gelding perminantly due to age and medical issues, so I will be experimenting with a leather bit or bitless when I get another, young and healthy horse. Irish is going to live out his days with me in the pasture with dad's horse as a buddy.
Anything in the wrong hands can be harmful. Simple as that I could cause harm to my horse with a single jointed happy mouth D ring or a gag or a mullen mouth or a hackamore or a bitless bridle or a rope halter or a kimberwick or anything even tackless can cause harm not to the face but to other areas. My mare comes back with finger contact to collect and stops with hand movement.
Ikr, If I wanted to i could cause pain and harm to my horse with just a hand.
thank you for showing that the double jointed can’t “tent”. I always believed that double jointed bits hurt worse and this was a very eye-opening video. Do you think you could link your bit in the description? I am definitely going to switch to a double jointed like the one you have.
Thank you!
Sophie.Grace 42 www.equestriancollections.com/english-horse-tack/english-bits/eggbutt-snaffle-bits/centaur-eco-pure-eggbutt-french-link-bit i think this is the one. :))
archiex. thank you!
YES SHELBY GET EM WITH YOUR ACTUAL FACTS AND UNBIASED STUDIES
Girl, I have followed you for quite a while now both on UA-cam and Instagram, and never felt a need to comment until now.
HOW DO YOU NOT HAVE MORE FOLLOWERS? There are SOOOO many young/undereducated/etc riders out there that follow (oops) Raleigh and praise her for everything she does. “Bitless!! Everything is abuse!! Riding crops hurt! I’m an internet trainer!” Please.
People need to see this, hell, all of your videos so they can be enlightened. I honestly couldn’t give two shits if you’re pro bit or not- they both can cause pain to horses if used in correctly. I agree with EVERYTHING you touched on in this video, and praise you for preaching it. The amount of “conflict” between the equine community is insane. It’s amazing how people like you, Jill, Hannah, Gemma, and other you tubers can spread positivity in such a shit hole. I’m rambling now, but I just wanted you to know that you’re absolutely amazing and never stop doing what you do. One day we will teach the right things- no matter what the path may be.
Why did you put "conflict" in quotations? Are you saying there is no conflict? Or is English not your first language?
IDREWTHISJUSTTOBEPAPYRUS The Great Papyrus I put it in quotations because it’s a nicer word than saying drama, fighting, or bitching.
If bits were abuse I’m pretty sure the rspca wouldn’t use them for their horses and would have banned them x
Raleigh needs Jesus. A lot of Jesus
Pintos and Paints 😂😂
Pintos and Paints Yes she does!!
Pintos and Paints Even he can't help her. 😉
GSDmom B 😂
She needs more than Jesus to save her now.
She needs all of Heaven to help her now.
I guess my horses that live out 24/7, have regular vetting/ farrier/dental work, happily greet me and open their mouth to accept the bit/bridle are terribly abused. I wish people would take a tiny bit (ha, get it😋) of time and read about basic dressage work/ training scale. I ride my Andalusian/TB in a simple loose ring snaffle and he is happy and willing, looking for contact and moving forward into the bridle. Very basic training goes a long way and as long as my horses don't tell me otherwise I will continue to do things that way. Just because someone has an opinion does not make it the truth, Raleighs entire video is an opinion and I feel bad for the people that look up to her.
PS- I love all the research that goes into your videos, Shelby.
YOU LITERALLY JUST SAID EVERYTHING I WAS THINKING DURING RALEIGHS VIDEO!
I was so frustrated during her whole video 😂😂😂
Omg yes I used to like that girl and then she started being snobby and stupid
And she curses to much
I didn’t even watch it to save myself from losing brain cells. 😂
Practical Eventer smart !
Yup I got really annoyed with Railey for that video and Shelby is so so right
Horse Crazy you don't know better
I made a comment on that video too and it got deleted. Glad you made this. I hate when people spread false information
Oh yeah cold metal in a mouth is totally not abusive
O ye oosing a metl nIfe and fork is totaly not aboosif
Yes but the spoon wouldn't have reins attached with someone else pulling on it. Actually if someone else was moving the spoon it would probably hurt ha.
I fully agree. This is all wrong
Bits aren't only painful, they're invasive too
AHAHA THE SHADE OF THE TITLE ILY
Totally agree. I’ll never stop loving your intro. And what do you mean your comments kept going poof??
Raleigh kept deleting Shelby’s comments from the video
Marina Avalon oh
MacKenzie Clark oh okay. I never saw them
Thank you for making this video. I was discouraged from riding after people at my barn called me “heartless” and made comments about how I shouldn’t ride because people like me don’t even deserve to have animals. But now I’ll just flip them off and show them this video.
(Also side note I use the same kind of bit as you do I wasn’t doing anything)
I enjoy it when you get all sciency. Not only do you evaluate the studies, you also present them well! Now, let's focus on why you only have 16k subscribers vs. Raleigh's 88k. That's because Scientific American has a monthly US circulation of 550k, whereas The National Enquirer has a weekly circulation of 1,000k. Don't change a thing!
THANK YOU Shelby for once again providing the correct information re: sourcing your arguments as well as the importance of critical thinking when looking at a topic, such as the bit/bitless issue. I watched your original Bit Debate and found it incredibly helpful. I have just returned to riding after 13 years and all I keep seeing everywhere is the expression "pain bit" applied to ANY bit and the rider is then invariably labeled abusive. As someone who is riding lesson horses, I use the tack supplied. I was very concerned that I was "abusing" them until I realized I was still able to ride "off my seat" and use contact only to soften or support (think counter canter). I will admit I am old school trained and was taught that my seat and legs can (And still do) slow and stop a horse as well as allowing forward and lateral movement. Should the time arise that I can own a horse of my own, I fully intend to school said horse like you have with Milo. As you have correctly stated, he is soft ridden in a bit or completely bridleless. I am grateful the younger kids who idol worship such horse owners like Raleigh also have another young rider to try and steer them to think with their brains and not just accept the unsupported claims because "I saw it on the internet". Keep up the great work Shelby. I truly look up to you as a voice for the younger crowd. At 53, I have enough life and academic experience to discern fact from fiction; anecdotal evidence from studies, etc. But I too was once a horse crazy adolescent and may have been led into potentially dangerous situations had the info; be it real or not, been presented by another immature teenager. I believe that's still referred to as peer pressure. Ok enough rambling. Just thanks again Shelby. ☺👏👏👏
Feel like this is shooting back at Raleigh for her recent bits video- and I love it! 😁thank you so much Shelby for the true information
THANK. YOU.
I think this is the best video I've seen regarding the issue from both sides. I agree that you have to do your homework and learn the body language of your horse. That was the first book I read when I got into raising my Morgans, "The Body Language of a Horse". I learned a lot! You have to pay attention to what they are telling you. If you want to use a bit, then learn which one is the least harmful and how to fit it properly in your horse's mouth. If you want to go bitless, that's great, but learn which equipment is the least harmful on their nasal bones and face. Mine were taught verbal commands so I rarely used the reins.
Thank you, Shelby, for showing some of the different softer bits available. When I get back into having horses again, I will definitely see what bitless options are out there and start their training with that and figure out which equipment works best for them. And professors do not like papers with only two sources. It becomes he said, she said. You need more opinions than two!! Love how you work with Milo and Archie. Looking forward to your next video!
I used to be subbed to Raleigh, but, she started using false information and biased sources. I knew that I needed to find someone who knew what the fuck they were talking about. My grandpa always said, “It’s not the equipment that hurts the horse, it’s the people who misuse them.” I ride my two horses in what they are comfortable in. One hates pressure in her mouth, so I ride her in a hackamores. The other doesn’t like pressure on his nose, so I ride him in a bit. I don’t force them to ride something they don’t like. I really like you, I’m glad I found your channel. Keep up the great work.
I choked on my water that I was drinking when I read the title haha this video is gold! 😂 🙌 Thank you for making this!
PLEASE READ-
I personally ride most of my horses Bitless but I do understand that being Bitless CAN cause pain, I ride some of my horses in a bit because they are eventers. I just don't see why the bitted and Bitless community can't get along!same with western and English we all love horses so why can't we all get along!! Although, my mum thinks the horse I have trained Bitless as I noticed he starts showing signs of pain with his bit, she handgrazes him in a bit which could cause him harm, I do Not agree with this, it is incorrect use of a potentially harmful object. Bitless or bitted shouldn't We equestrians be focusing on actual abuse like Tennessee walking horse shows with it is Obvious the horse is in agony. And proving horse riding is a SPORT!!!! I agree with both sides of this argument although I'm mainly Bitless, I'm fine with people who are sensible with bits!!
I know your comment is two years old but I have to say something.
Tennessee Walking horses are not abused. The only TWH that are abused are the ones that are sored. Most are not, but the whole TWH industry is trying to fight against soring with all their might.
@Kitty Yes Yes. And you're late.
@Kitty Yes You're very confused. "Big Lick" is a gait and is NOT referred to as "The Big Lick" in shows. What you're quoting is describing soring.
You seem to think that if a gait's not "natural," that it's automatically abusive. Action devices (like stacks/pads) are what cause them to lift their legs so high. But I guess you're not currently at the Celebration, watching these beautiful horses do their beautiful jobs and not be in pain because TWHs are the most regulated breed of horse.
Since you like to edit comments instead of just making a new one that I will definitely see, I edited mine too. I never said a horse would enjoy being put on horseshoes "ten times the size of a regular horseshoe and being told to trot in circles." (Which they are not, TWH don't even trot) You can't even use proper grammar and are completely wrong in your statements. I'm not discussing something with someone that has misanthropy and a large dose of idiocy.
My horse had her nose broken before I bought her by someone being too rough with a hackamore. Now she has to use a bit since any kind of pressure on her nose can cause further damage to her nasal passages.
Thank you for posting this video on behalf of all of us who are terrified that beginners are going to start slapping hackamores on their horses after listening to internet trainers on UA-cam. You rock!
Aaand Shelby has killed it again with the incredibly informative & unbiased video 👏🏻👏🏻🧡
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I am forever thankful that equine influencers like you exist.
Great video! Preach it! Lol... I love this! THANK YOU! You are so educated! Awesome points ☺
I’m so glad you made this and knock some sense into these people! Finally we have a smart person who can show REAL examples of why bits are not bad!
I agree with you. I have changed my bit to the double jointed, but I also use a side pull bit less that I made for my horse. My kids ride their pony in a bit and bit less. I am 30 and I always learn something new in training my horse, I always research and ask my vet about putting something new on my horse.
What a cute kitty! And preach preach preach; I agree that people should do their own research on their options in regards to bits vs bitless. It really depends on the individual horse as well. Some go well with a bit, some go well bitless, and with others it doesn't matter either way. The goal for horse riding in general should be to ride off your seat and legs, and to be soft, and move with the horse.
thank God you did this! we all know a little someone who should really take a few notes on you
I really like this because you're basically informing (or at least trying to) all the ignorant people the pressure is pressure no matter where it is. The riders hands determine how harsh something is so if a bit is causing pain, then its not the bits fault.
I don’t ride horses (yet) but I use to not like bits until I found your video’s on them and you changed my mind so thank you for all the information your the best girl!
Glad you did this!
Such a good video! Learned a lot in your first bit video and still learned in this video. I loved this video.
I highly agree with you!!! I use double broken bits as well, English and western. You rock girl!!!!!!❤️👍🏻
I love this video.... I ride my horse in bit, bitless and I'm training my horse to ride in a neckrope. For dressage I use a double broken brass snaffle and for jumping use a bittles sidepull bridle (rambo micklem) in which my mare is really much better then jumping in a bit... She's easier to collect and has a nicer frame over the jump. On the other hand, I don't really do dressage bitless, because she is much less motivated when we're just doing flatwork and she has less impuls from behind( I'm sorry if I'm using wrong terms, I'm dutch xD). If I use the bitless bridle which puts pressure at her nose I'm kinda holding her back which she doesn't like. She's just much easier and softer in dressage when I use a bit, it's just much easier for me to give her subtle ques . I can't do that in the bidless bridle because the pressure is much higher on her head.
Sorry for the long comment , I just want to show you that either one is Ok, just look at what makes your horse the most comfortable . Both can cause damage, it's all about how they're used...
thank you shelby for this video!
Thank you so much for posting this. You are so educated and so inspirational❤️
The moment you said that bitless people seem to think that their bitless bridles are the best and theres nothing wrong with them, I just thought that bitless people are like the vegans of equestranism
I agree %100! I don't have a problem with bits or bit less bridles as long as they are used correctly. I wish people would understand that anything can be abusive if it's used incorrectly. Shelby, you are one of my favorite youtubers! You are so nice and respectful.
I am going to start riding soon and I thought some bits are okay. But after watching Raleighs video I was mad at myself in a way and felt so bad for liking bits. Glad I came across this video. Made me feel like I could trust my own opion lol.
Thank you Shelby 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Thank you Shelby for making educational videos based on actual facts and proper studies!!!!!!!!!!
The horse I ride the most goes in a double jointed snaffle like the rubber one you showed at the beginning of the video, I am very glad to know it's a mild bit- I have pretty soft hands (according to my instructors, not me- I try my utmost to be gentle and giving, but I am still learning, and I know, especially with canter, I must have my moments...)
but some of the other people who ride I can't vouch for, haha, and he means the absolute world to me, (it's the horse in my profile photo)
so it's good to know his bit isn't too harsh!
I sadly have no real control over the bridles/bits they go in, I love just riding bareback with two lead ropes, haha, that makes me happiest, but I don't have my own horse to ride like that very often- I sneak a lot of rides to turn out, haha- there's a good reason I keep a spare helmet in my car! 😉
Anyway, great video, I love your balanced, well-thought approach to this issue!
And why the heck aren't all bits made from pliable rubber?! There's a big solution, there, although in the wrong hands even that can be bad- still, it would be an improvement!
I need to find a rubber jointed bit for Manni!
It's nice to finally see someone go about this in a respectful, unhateful and non-biased way
so glad you posted this!!
Once again I am impressed by your calm and informative presentation, well done! I think a certain someone continues to make videos bashing bits because they want attention, I mean at this point this is like their 3rd video.
I use a fleece hackamore, but I don't have shanks or a curb chain, it has rings on the side and a leather curb strap and it's fitted properly
I've only just come across this video, I've followed you for the past 6 months and I would like to apologise on behalf of the arrogant, inconsiderate rude people out there that are verbally abusing you for the time you have put into this study and video. It pains me how rude equine people are to others (especially such a level headed, caring wonderful person as yourself). I love your videos and respect the study you put into these videos and putting them up knowing people will be rude no matter what you say, but for us equine people who aren't as ignorant as others im sure i can say on behalf of us thankyou for looking into this in further depth and helping us understand our 4 legged friends more. Thankyou so much for being the person you are Shelby
#first agree totally
Hi, I have a question. I ride lesson horses and I have to use a bit(not a problem) I just use a single jointed 5” cheek snaffle. I want to get a double jointed one so that mine doesn’t tent. My trainer said that that was the bit I needed to buy. Is there anything I can do to have lighter hands? Not that I pull and have no release. I’m not trying to say that bits are bad or that I am using my bridle and bit wrong just asking for advise.
EquineMill Hi! I am by no means an experienced equestrian, but what I try to do to make my hands lighter/softer is whenever my horse and I are just warming up and I am not turning him that much, I make my reins as long as possible to avoid pulling, only shortening them up when I need to direct him. There are probably other methods that work better but that is just what I try to do :)
So tenting is actually slightly controversial as well! Hilary Clayton in one article talked about how poking the roof of the mouth doesn’t actually happen that often because as you pull, the tongue is compressed and the cavity between the tongue and the roof is larger. It heavily depends on the horses mouth shape and what bit actions they prefer. If your horse is fine in the single joint, then you’re fine. Trying a double joint won’t hurt either but don’t panic unless your horse shows discomfort
englishorserider10
Ok! Thank you! The horses I ride don’t show sights of discomfort when I ride in that bit. So I think I’m good!
I have a horse that hates double jointed bits, but my other prefers them. My first horse refused to ride nicely in a rope halter because he had a very sensitive face, but he went fine in a full cheek snaffle. It really depends on the horse's preference and the rider's too. Just listen to your horse and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
How do you feel about the bosal?
I ride mine in snaffles too, but love my 5/8 Steve Guitron hand braided bosal.
I appreciate your thoughtful conversation here, as always.
Keep up the great horsemanship, Shelby. 💜
I use a Dr Cooks bridle on my mare and she's great. I also use a double jointed snaffle on her for icelandic work (she's still in training, so she needs help holding herself up) as the bitless will just tighten and hurt her head. She 100% prefers the bitless, but will take a bit.
You just need to know what works for your horse (I'm gonna change her icelandic work to bitless when she's more experienced, but it's good to know that she takes one)
all i saw was the title and screamed YES
I saw the title and I screamed STUPID HUMAN
Juni&Sasha Sso i don’t see why, there’s nothing stupid about it 🤷🏼♀️
Thank you so much for this video with this information
I love this video. You are so calm and polite and actually had real science to back you up. I can't even get through a Raleigh video anymore. She cusses more than using actual words. Now I'm known to throw around some swear words, I'm not saying that I don't, but hers is more swearing than actual knowledge. And she's just sooooo full of herself, just like Rick. I'll say it again. Common sense people. Use whatever works best for you and your horse. Bitted, bitless or bridleless. Don't let other people make you feel guilty. They don't know your horse. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I used to drive/ride a horse frequently during my years at a boarding school I attended. The horse was an older warmblooded trotting horse. When I begun at the school a girl 2 y above me (who had had a lot do do with the same horse I'd grown to love) told me that he preferred double jointed snuffle bits. As said, when I begun to ride him more and more I always took the bridle with the double jointed (his own bridle for driving was a straight bit covered in leather). And there was no problem at all riding him with the double jointed so I asked to be allowed to drive him on the same bit, but got a no. Before my last christmas break at the school they had the yearly checking of the teeth of the horses and my boy got his bit switched out for a standard straight steel bid and he hated it. They gave him time to adjust to it but he kept tossing his head while driving and showing signs of discomfort. Then, after almost 3 years of asking to be able to drive him on the snuffle, when he'd been on the straight bit for over months I finally got to put on his beloved double jointed bit and he was as happy as ever
My opinion on buts is just like do what never is best for your horse guys!! Like come o on guys, get over your selfish "I'm all for bitless if your horse has a hit you hate him" like some horses are just to strong and need a bit, and some are perfectly happy bitless :)
That one dislike is someone who doesn’t know how to listen to your preaching, I️ absolutely love your videos keep being awesome
I was so excited to see this video pop up!! You always make amazing and TRUE videos. And you actually do your research, my kinda girl.
Havnt even watched it yet but THANK YOU! Harm can be done no matter the bridle! With a light hand bits are FINE
Who else intensely jams on Shelby’s intro
okayyyy so i love both Shelby and Raleigh but i feel like in both videos valid points where made. I guess my opinion is somewhere in the middle, bits can be abuse used in the wrong hands same with crops and spurs but in the right hands its fine. Thoughts?
Yes bits can be abusive if used incorrectly. So can nosebands, spurs, whips, saddles if fitted incorrectly. But riding bitless is not the end all answer. Some bitless options can be just as bad if not worse than a bit. I personally ride in a French link bit with very loose reins as my horse doesn't like a lot of contact. As a result I really have to ride off my seat and leg which is how one should ride in the first place. So many riders are taught to balance off their hands (guilty) but this is wrong! Reins should only be used lightly for aids. You shouldn't ever be yanking on a horses mouth
Ella bits hurt the horse no matter what kind of hands you have
Juni&Sasha Sso not true. A bit just sitting in their mouth is not painful. You can put things in your mouth without it being painful can't you? A hackamore can be just as harsh if not more so than a bit. Mechanical hackamore can break a horses nose. They can cause immense poll pressure. Bitless bridles often provide harsh pressure under the jaw. So both options can be just as bad in the wrong hands. But you are wrong. Placing a bit in a horses mouth and not touching it doesn't hurt them
I do believe that Juni&Sasha said "no matter what kind of hands you have," indicating pulling on the reins, but you might have misread.
Ella is correct. Bits do hurt the horse , but if you only use the pressure that's needed it is fine. What most Raleigh followers don't know is that reins are made to give pressure to the horse so that it knows hen to stop, so it is ok to pull if you pull lightly, but they seem to think that every touch will hurt. Bit less bridles still have the same pressure, they just have pressure to different areas.
This is my opinion about bits
I think bits are fine, some horses like bits I personally don't like bits because I'm more of a "Companion with a horse" but I still respect people who ride in bits, Bitless bridles can be harsh as can bits. Yes, some people abuse horses with horrible bits maybe like a bicycle chain bit(For bitless the worst would be a Jumper mechanical hackamore or long shank hackamore) but guess what? You can STILL abuse a horse bitless with the bridle causing the horse to go bald in the spot of the noseband. Its actually the rider, YOU NEED TO HAVE SOFT HANDS PEOPLE If you have a hard hand then the Bits can hurt the horse also making it behave a certain way to escape the pain but surprise bitless can do that too because the horse is in pain.
Also, I apologize for being sooo uneducated and I'm sorry that I harassed others for riding in bits(Thank Raleigh for making me a piece of shit when it comes to that) When I started watching Shelby I felt that she was more respectful and she actually knew her facts and indeed Its the rider that makes a bit or bridle harsh. Thanks Shelby for teaching me how to be respectful!
I'm genuinely so thankful there is someone like with as big a following as raleigh to stand up to her x
Great video @shelbydennis. Thank you for putting this out.
I tried watching Raleigh's video but just could not reach the end! It was just a constant stream of lies, which just angered me. I switched off as soon as she said that horses cannot feel hackamores at all, and it feels like nothing. This is absolute bs! If she did her research and looked at both sides of the argument then she would know that hackamores cause pressure on sensitive areas, that cannot be relieved by a horse opening their mouth
I mean if you really think about, all pieces of tack, if used incorrectly can cause a lot of pain to the horse. Examples: If someone is yanking their horses face off with a bit, its going to cause a lot of gum damage. If someone is riding in a hackamore and it was placed/used incorrectly, they can cause just as much pain and damage as a bit. So really, if anything is miss used, it can cause and inflict the exact same amount of pain and damage. I do think that riding bittless you are less likely to make stupid mistakes such as pulling on your horses face, or causing some pressure. But on the other hand, if you are riding in a bit, the only way that it would cause damage is if its not placed correctly in the mouth, or the rider is green (or they are just a terrible irragant rider) and dose not understand that by pulling on the horses face they can cause discomfort. There really is no answer to the bit or bittless battle because everybody has a opinion and everybody will go out of their way to prove they are right.
When you mentioned bits for lesson horses, I realized that all of the lesson horses at my barn are in Mullen mouths. Makes me happy.
Shelby you are queen. Finally someone who gets the importance of legit studies and not just anecdotal evidence
Now we wait to see if Raleigh will learn her lesson and respond or hide because she knows she made yet another mistake.
I love you shelby! You're so great at getting a point across in an educated manner 💕💕