You're not alone. Apparently even people that actually love musicals are saying the musical aspect of the film doesn't work for them and even they are slamming this movie. I don't care for Joker or Todd Phillips as a filmmaker, but I'm always interested in what you have to say.
I'm at outlier because I loved it - was mesmerized throughout with Pheonix's performance as the throughline. You gotta let this movie be what it is and stop projecting want you WANT IT TO BE.
I think sequels should be more saved for world building film. Joker was more of a character study which i thought shouldn't have gotten a sequel. It personally made me like the first movie even less now because of the way it treated the characters
As someone who loves musicals, this movie doesn't interest me at all. Still need to watch Joker and The Batman. I got a bit overwhelmed with comic book movies after Avengers End Game.
I'm curious. If musicals are one of your least favorite genres of film (same here. The only musical I know that I like a lot is Dancer In The Dark) what are some of your other least favorite genres?
@@papawheelie1645 off the top of my head, my three least favorite genres of film are probably musicals, action and noir. But I’ve seen masterpieces in all three of those genres
Right on. Mine are probably, movies with subtitles for sure, esp when the fly by so fast-- action (2 hours of car chases implausible coincidence to further the plot and explosions) and of course musicals.
@@papawheelie1645 I deeply encourage you with all my heart to try and overcome the subtitle pet peeve. I definitely understand it can be annoying when they move too fast.. but overall, international films offer some of the most creative, subversive and impactful films out there
Spoilers⚠️⚠️⚠️ Basically the "Folie a Deux" of the title is between Joker and the real life audience who associates with him as a symbol or "friend". They share his qualities and use him as a vehicle for their own violence and mental illness. The title on face value also refers to Harley Quinn. She is a stand-in for the real life fans of Joker who used him as a symbol for violence and rebellion. These people do not care about Arthur Fleck, they only care about the Joker persona and what it means to them. When Arthur sees the effect he had on puddles, followed by a sexual assualt in prison and the killing of one of his friends by a guard, he starts to come to terms with the Joker needing to die. Notice these things are pretty much the only acts of violence in the film which take place in reality, this is the filmmakers saying if the audience wants violence they will get what they deserve but not in the way they want. Also when this happens to Joker many people feel like "how dare you do this to my beloved character!" but these are the same people who come to movies looking for violence and action. I thought the film had a lot to say and will become more understood over time. In terms of thematic value this has leagues more to offer than the first. I do agree the musical sequences do not all hit whatsoever, there is a few decent ones. I really like that Todd Philips had a vision for what he wanted to say to the fans who took the first film to the extreme and made this movie as a message to them
I dont care about this movie, i just love listening to him talk
@@boululu1 🥹🥹
You must love the word “like”.
I love how this movie alienated it's fanbase, great time at the movies watching a bunch of angry teens walk out.
@@JoeyEsqueda as much as I love seeing comic book fanboys getting trolled, this movie was still mid lol
You're not alone. Apparently even people that actually love musicals are saying the musical aspect of the film doesn't work for them and even they are slamming this movie. I don't care for Joker or Todd Phillips as a filmmaker, but I'm always interested in what you have to say.
I'm at outlier because I loved it - was mesmerized throughout with Pheonix's performance as the throughline. You gotta let this movie be what it is and stop projecting want you WANT IT TO BE.
@@thomasbaxter1371 i definitely let it be what it wanted to be. That was the issue for me lol glad you enjoyed it tho
The musical tension problem will probably continue until the children of the 70s and foot loose copies are both in museums or morgues
I love musicals and I hate comic book films (and fans). Sounds like this is the film for me!
@@SpaceCattttt honestly yes. If you love musicals, I think you’ll dig this
@@TheMisfitPond Great!
I think sequels should be more saved for world building film. Joker was more of a character study which i thought shouldn't have gotten a sequel. It personally made me like the first movie even less now because of the way it treated the characters
Excited for your opinion!
As someone who loves musicals, this movie doesn't interest me at all. Still need to watch Joker and The Batman. I got a bit overwhelmed with comic book movies after Avengers End Game.
I'm curious. If musicals are one of your least favorite genres of film (same here. The only musical I know that I like a lot is Dancer In The Dark) what are some of your other least favorite genres?
@@papawheelie1645 off the top of my head, my three least favorite genres of film are probably musicals, action and noir. But I’ve seen masterpieces in all three of those genres
Right on. Mine are probably, movies with subtitles for sure, esp when the fly by so fast-- action (2 hours of car chases implausible coincidence to further the plot and explosions) and of course musicals.
@@papawheelie1645 I deeply encourage you with all my heart to try and overcome the subtitle pet peeve. I definitely understand it can be annoying when they move too fast.. but overall, international films offer some of the most creative, subversive and impactful films out there
@@TheMisfitPond Right on...If they're slow enough (EEAAO and Past Lives) then I'm fine but so many are too damn fast to keep up with.
the problems with musicals is if you don't like the songs, you won't like a huge part of the movie.
I feel tricked. The previews gave no indication that this was a musical. Jack Nicholson WAS The Joker. After that, the character disappeared.
Spoilers⚠️⚠️⚠️
Basically the "Folie a Deux" of the title is between Joker and the real life audience who associates with him as a symbol or "friend". They share his qualities and use him as a vehicle for their own violence and mental illness.
The title on face value also refers to Harley Quinn. She is a stand-in for the real life fans of Joker who used him as a symbol for violence and rebellion. These people do not care about Arthur Fleck, they only care about the Joker persona and what it means to them. When Arthur sees the effect he had on puddles, followed by a sexual assualt in prison and the killing of one of his friends by a guard, he starts to come to terms with the Joker needing to die. Notice these things are pretty much the only acts of violence in the film which take place in reality, this is the filmmakers saying if the audience wants violence they will get what they deserve but not in the way they want. Also when this happens to Joker many people feel like "how dare you do this to my beloved character!" but these are the same people who come to movies looking for violence and action.
I thought the film had a lot to say and will become more understood over time. In terms of thematic value this has leagues more to offer than the first. I do agree the musical sequences do not all hit whatsoever, there is a few decent ones.
I really like that Todd Philips had a vision for what he wanted to say to the fans who took the first film to the extreme and made this movie as a message to them
You should see caberet
I want to be a filmmaker carlos
I’m in the minority. This was great.
@@mudstyle5288 glad you enjoyed it dude.