Poptop Roof Design on the Dream Overland Camper
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Join me as I work through the different designs for a pop top roof on the dream overland camper, laying out all the different possible options and the pros and cons of each.
00:00 Introduction
00:59 Why Canvas / Why Not Hard Sided
02:24 Where is the bed in the camper?
02:45 What about downstairs sleeping?
04:06 The Bed Platform
04:40 Why a permanent bed is so important
06:38 What about half and half?
07:50 Will canvas be insulated enough?
09:40 Popup Type: The Wedge
12:03 Popup Type: Side Pop
12:56 Popup Type: Vertical Pop
15:03 Canvas and Bed considerations
17:35 Outro
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#Overland #Camper #PopTop - Авто та транспорт
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I am happy to be 5'8" ...the wedge design on a 6' truck bed. No issues ..changed my life forever
I really like Dan. I enjoy his enthusiasm and positive attitude. I also like interacting with him and his build. Dan is a class act. Another real positive with Dan’s channel is that he tries a variety of vehicles. He just doesn’t do a ton of Troopy builds over and over.
Thanks for the kind words!
For a vertical pop you need something to keep the roof from side to side movement and twisting about the vertical axis . The 4 gas struts provide no side to side restraint on movement. I found out the hard way on my own build.
Look at how 4 wheel campers does it. That's why they have wide folding hinge boards at the front and rear. To constrain the side to side movement.
I've been thinking the same thing, and I was thinking of adding 2 gas struts on the front and two on the back for a total of 8.
On your build what did you wind up doing to solve the problem?
At the front and rear each I used two boards that were hinged to each other and to the roof and the top rim of the camper. When the roof is down the two boards are folded on each other. When raised I have a deadbolt across the hinge between the two boards to hold them in their raised configuration.
I considered four more gas struts but I thought they might be tricky to get right. Too weak and they wouldn't constrain the side to side or twisting movement. Too strong and the roof may be tough to lower. They may also not be totally balanced against each other as they are just from Amazon made in China.
I've been studying videos of the AT Atlas which uses a board like you describe. I'm going to ask Mario a bunch more questions!
Thanks again,
@@TheRoadChoseMe My FWC has these boards as well and they also help support the weight when popped so you only need the 4 struts. (which are 29lbs each I believe) Why not recess your bed down off the frame the height of the mattress + bedding that way the canvas can rest on top? you'd lose that amount of headroom, but if you mad the roof pop high enough you could still get that over 6ft of standing space.
We struggled with the same problem in our building. We will probably install the tent soon, which I believe will give stability to the roof. But we also add 2 aluminum plates on each side to sustain the roof.
Howdy Dan! Both pop top versions have thier pros and cons. As a suggestion to make your bed platform work conveniently though. Split the bed platform into 2 or 3 pieces, cut width wise. and have them "floating" on a rails that run the full 7.5' length of the camper. Then attach 2 interior handles to the center section of the roof. (much like the old Toyota Chinooks) .
This combo of interior ceiling handles along with the 'sectional' bed will allow you to slide either half of the bed to the front and rear edge of the camper, stand in the middle, and pull the roof back flat. Then I suppose have exterior clasps for the anchoring of the roof while driving.
An additional 'pro' to making the bed a sectional. Is if you split it in either twos or thirds, you can stack the sections to maximize your standing interior room.
And when its time to sleep, you can either use a small amount of velcro to secure the sections from sliding away from one another while under you, while you move in your sleep. Or a sort of cleating system to clasp the sections together along thier leading edges.
This is how I designed a pop top camper-shell I built for my brothers 2016 Chevy Colorado.
I have an idea for stowing your vertical topper with bed down. I think I would use paracord with a 3 to 1 small pulley system like a main sheet for a sail boat. It could easily be placed in each corner in the rear where you can’t reach the roof. It could be tied to a manual crank that turns both sides at the same time or a small gear reduced electric motor. For that matter you could do all four corners and put the crank socket outside where you could do it manually or with a small cordless drill. Obviously you could add a dedicated electric motor, just be sure to have a manual back up. If you place the bottom attachment far enough below the seam, it could pull the whole top all the way down. It would be a simple, light, and relatively inexpensive solution. Pulleys could be sourced from sailing supply house. Anyway, just a thought.
As to bringing the top down with the bed already down: just leave a small slot at the head of the bed to pass a strap down through. Attach the strap to the roof and pull down while sitting on the floor under the bed.
If you find the strap interferes with the canvas folding in, you could attach two straps, about 2-3 feet apart to the roof, at the head of the bed. Then, rather than passing them straight down, pass them through a slot on the sides, about 2-3 feet from the head of the bed. This way The straps will be at an angle to both sides of the canvas. Yes, you will have to pull harder. And your slots will have to have smooth edges.
I have no idea if this will actually work. I'm just spitballing here.
Or you could just get out and pull down on straps from the outside.
I have an alucab and this is the benefit of that cabover design - you get the best of both worlds. You get the stability/simplicity of the wedge, the protection of a hard roof, and when you push the bed up - because the roof is so long - you can still stand up everywhere (although the bed of a Ford Ranger really isn't that big). Everything is tradeoffs and you explained previously why you didn't go with the cabover design. Love the channel.
There is no doubt a cabover has some huge, huge advantages!
Just make some bungees the hook onto loops sewn to the canvas walls inside the camper . As you put the top down the bungees will pull the cavas inward .A simple way to close the top would be have a couple small Block & Tackles that you would clip on two rings , one ring on the top , one ring on the camper . One small step further add a couple graduated sticks on each side so you can call off there numbers to each other as you pull the top down so it pulls down straight . These sticks could be held with say suction cups or some other way you could pull them once the top is down . Another plus with the Block & Tackle is that you can tie them off to hold the top down slid as do up the latches . Nice job so far on the camper . Safe travels .
Electric linear actuators at each corner. There are issues with them to work through but solves the issue with lifting the roof with the bed in the way. There are direct vertical lift, at an angle like the gas strut method and scissor lift with actuator.
I think you're making the best decision by trying refine your idea of the vertical top. It's got so many advantages and the disadvantages can be worked out. My ideal camper would also have a vertical top, it's the most practical thing
Simplest thing will be a sliding bed with a center E-W hinge and hinge boards for the N-S ends of the pop up. You just slide the bed down to one end and push it up in the center for more room. Simple slides for the bed are not going to break on the road. Go with a East-West bed for more room. Having a simple sliding bed would allow you to try both
Four Wheel Camper has a nice setup and canvas.
Powered top to open & close so you don’t have to reach would be great but likely costly.
Maybe a metal loop on the roof that you can hook with a pole outside to pull down (or push up) the roof. That would work better than a strap flopping around after you close the top. That pole could attach outside or telescope to store inside. That could solve the problem of reaching the roof.
I'm very happy with our caravan's manual vertical full push-up. Our sides are thick plastic, not canvas.
It's not a wedge, but a full pop-up. Currently working well in Tasmania.
Being a full-length push-up it works better with solar than a wedge.
BTW consider a 12 volt electric blanket. Uses minimal power and warms the bed. Less need for a diesel heater.
When I do mine I'm thinking of doing a Hi-Lo trailer style top. Use a rigid fold away front panel and linear actuators can be tucked away inside the rigid top while moving and only exposed while safely stopped. The only downside is weight but I'll be building on a 1 ton pickup chassis anyways so it's a drop in the bucket really.
Perhaps make a small hole/slit through the floating bed at the very back, where it won't be in the way... then attach a strap to the ceiling which hangs through that hole/slit which you can use to pull the roof down, even when the bed is 'in the way'?
That is a good idea that I hadn't thought of, I'll think more about how that can work
Dan Chris and Angie, the.outfit used a cable system to lift and lower their bed to the roof in the mog, you could do something similar where you lift the bed with 4 cables, secure it up using “jam cleats” (marine shop” for full down below access then lower it to travel position and drop the roof. You might need a detachable strap to pull the front down first from ground level, inside easy. Make sure your roof rams are the right weight, N rating so you can get them rebuilt if you have to ( added an extra 100n to each of mine 16’ poptop caravan to allow for 40k of solar to go on now I have to hold one end down while some pulls the other then it just holds sort of floats😂)
A pop-top is the best way to go for all the reasons you've articulated. Since your bed platform doesn't take up the full space front to back, if you make it "floating", why not make it so it can slide forwards and backwards? Then you can latch both the front and the back from inside.
Have a look at how the South African RTT Bundutop does it, it's motorized and the canvas works with a fixed bed
Love the series, had a thought for consideration in a v2...
Had the top itself been built with a little more thickness the bed platform could kind of recess into it, probably making the ability to secure it a little easier, but more importantly making it so that the canvas can fold in below the bed. (Thought being that for rainy weather it may prevent some of the dampness permeating the bedding). It also allows you to possibly design the allowances for mattress thickness and bedding volume without encroaching too much when the roof is closed. (Do you have a thickness in mind?)
The other positive/drawback could be that the bed up is the default position if you want a quick lunch stop or be inside making dinner before bed. It would add an extra step every morning when packing up but depending on the design could be quite minimal.
I do like the idea of the cleanliness of having the canvas fold in on the bed for if you ever use the cabin with the top down.
Can't wait to see what you come up with!
Have you considered a bi-fold bed platform that would accordion against the back canvas wall? That would be mechanically very simple, and you could leave a small section that would stay horizontal that would leave a small space for pillows and bedding. That could just sit above your cabinets.
For the roof mechanism, the ‘bar’ system that four wheel campers uses over their bed is probably the simplest and most robust…
If you were still traveling solo, I'd so go with the wedge top. However, given more than one person a vertical top will allow more than one person to stand and move around. While the wedge top would be easier, I think front-loading the work on a vertical top would pay off over the long term. The only other option you didn't mention would be something like a FlipPac top, but that exposes the canvas too much.
I love the flip pac idea, but the torrential rain I've seen on the road makes me think it's a bad idea - the canvas as the roof won't hold up for more than 10 minutes.
So I think you're right, the effort now on the vertical will pay off in the long run.
I vote for the vertical tent. the window design will be closer to the ceiling and cut down on condensation better. Looks like the vertical tent windows zip open from the top. That will ventilate the ceiling condensation better. My wedge camper gets horrible condensation dripping down on my head from the roof peak (doesn't help that my head is directly under the roof peak). The roof peak on a wedge is too far away to reach with a towel from the warmth of your bag. The vertical ceiling would be close enough to reach on the nights condensation gets crazy. Side note: I eventually solved the problem in my wedge camper by velcro-ing a towel up into the ceiling's roof peak, but it's another chore to remember to pull it out to dry out in the Sun.
the vertical tent windows also look like they'll be easier to open/close when you have the bed secured up to the ceiling . You'll want to be able to open/close the tent windows easily for ventilation/rain when inside.
And yeah, the vertical tent will be easier to close. I have a truck tailgate to stand on when closing up my wedge, and I can use my long arms to push in the fabric from the side. It's hard to picture how you'll do that easily with your reverse wedge design. 2 people? Ladders each side? Spider monkey up to stand on the spare tire? From 4 wheel campers I've watched, it appears like people can pull the vertical tent style down while inside their camper. They just do the final latch closures from outside.
Really helpful ideas here. Not sure if you have already figured this out, but what if the pop up goes straight up and the bed folds sideways and becomes one of the walls… would take adjustments of course might mean a higher pop top or narrower bed… but you could also have all but two feet fold sideways and that would then allow for the bedding and sleeping pad.
It's been 2 weeks Dan! We're all wanting to see how you solved this roof & bed dilemma 😅
I'm working on it!
I think the vertical pop-up is the way to go. Like you said, it gives the most head room. Yes it adds a bit of complexity to the build but you appear to have that well in hand. The straps to pull the roof down from the outside is a good solution. Adding some sort of bungee cord to the inside of the canvas will help it fold inward when you bring the top down. You might want to add a leg in each corner on the inside to hold the roof up and hold the weight of the bed and any solar panels you will add.
Amazing work on this build !! What a machine
Thank you very much!
Fascinating analysis. Thank you for sharing your approach to decision making. I can apply this to many aspects of my life.
Glad it was helpful!
Saw a compact electric actuator mentioned as a means of raising/lowering the roof. Another option, if you have on-board air, would be a little pneumatic actuator of some kind.
Or just use a bicycle cable type arrangement with a remote mounted manual actuator.
Or just a pull cord that passes between the edge of the bed platform and the wall of the camper.
I usually run my diesel heater inside my Jeep camper which is inside my Jeep all night long in super cold temps. You’ll definitely need it to be blowing heat consistently in a canvas camper top. Can’t wait to see the finished product! It looks so good already!
Thanks for the real-world input, I really appreciate that. I've never had a diesel heater before, so it's all learning for me
Years ago, I remember seeing a coffee table that had a section that folded up to make a table for eating and lay back down flat as a regular table, it had four arms and would fold back and lift the table up .....this same idea could work for a lift top vertical camper, during the day, just lift the bed up and out of the way, at night pull it down into the sleeping position (as if you were putting the table back down to a normal position) this would be rather easy to design, fold out of the way when using the camper and lay right down when needed, it would also be light weight....
That is exactly what I'm planning!
Thinking about the vertical popup and closing the back. Maybe get like a hand crank,pulleys and some rope the attaches to the hitch mount and you hand crank it down . As fas as the fabric. Most of the tents I see have a bounge cord that goes horizontal around the canvas to help pull it in as you close it. There might be something like that you could do as well. Or maybe like a pole and hook to tuck it in.
I’ve been looking for the answer to this question for weeks and decided on wedge because my travels will mostly be in rain and snow. The wedge will help shed rain and snow. There is also the theory that you can block the wind by facing into it
Mario is the perfect guy to talk to when it comes to what canvas to use!
Another option is to build it like an AT Habitat where it flips completely over and hangs off of the back. I bet you wouldn't be able to do this since the back wall isn't designed to carry the weight.
As for a vertical pop up the Four Wheel Campers use hinge boards and struts to hold the camper up. The struts are there to help push up the roof but not support it by themselves. I can drop the top from inside the camper by unfolding the front and rear boards. I don't know how this would work with a sleeping platform.
Good luck. You are connected with a lot of smart people in the industry I am sure you will find a solution that will be perfect.
The flip over is a very rad design, but the torrential rain on my previous expeditions has taught me I do not want canvas as the roof!
Small D rings sewn in mid height, a couple or three per side that bungees are placed in right before folding would pull/fold the fabric in under the roof.
Love the print behind you ;) My copy is still in my office as well.
Thanks for the support!
I found you on Roaming Reckless. I look forward to binge watching your videos
Welcome aboard! let me know if you have any questions
It's going to be interesting with what solution you'll come up. I wanted to to a straight pop-top for a long time and thought about lifting it with electric linear motors, but I also struggled with the bed platform and other things and in the end went with a steep wedge instead, as it's just a lot simpler.
As for the fabric: I used heavy duty pvc truck canvas. It's cheap, durable, waterproof and very easy to work with, as you can use pvc glue, so there's no need for sewing...
Regarding the vertical pop-up method, have you considered a Bungie strap around the center of the canvas? (Like a belt). That could pull the canvas towards the center automatically. This would prevent you from needing to reach above the bed frame to fold in the canvas while lowering the top.
You could even add in a release mechanism for the ends of it so it would only be under tension when you want to lower the top.
Thanks for sharing your journeys with us!
I'll just add my two cents since you asked.
Given your stated requirements I'd go for a side lift popup with the highest bit along what appears to be the kitchen side (according to your floor plan) just not as high as pictured on the range rovers. Given your construction materials and methods I envisage a 'deep' brief case style, with the bed platform mounted in the roof and therefore the canvas gathers underneath the bed.
considerations:
Simplicity of design with known structural tolerances. (it's a box with a big lid)
Whist you need headspace cooking etc., you don't need it whist sitting.
You would have to duck whilst getting in and out of the camper but you need to do that anyway to get in and out of the door.
You would need stronger struts to help you lift the roof/bed unit but you would only need two.
It would increase the closed height of the camper, which is probably the worst con of this design.
The setup process would be, unlatch external clips, lift internal bed+roof unit. then either cook/work/live until bed time ,then lower bed platform.
If you wanted to get fancy you could employ three -leaf hinges to marry the wall, bed and roof around a single external pivot point.
Anyway, best of luck .
I really think you need to model both the lifting mechanism and the bed platform from ATs Atlas. Both seem to fit your needs. But I would propose an alteration to the platform like I did and either cut it into sections (2-4 strips of honeycomb core with c-channel bracing) or accordion the pieces with a piano hinge so you can push them up against the wall during the day. Because my Atlas is on an 8 ft truck it had a small cab over and that means it came with one giant platform. That wasn’t workable because there really wasn’t a place to put a giant platform during the day. So I cut it in half. Reinforced the cut sides. And now they serve multi purposes. I can stack them toward one end for a fully opened walking area. I can slide them independently so I have access to internal roof raise / lower mechanisms. And I often use them as standing desks by leaving one section on the side rails and putting my laptop on it. I can even slide the “desk” around if I want to push it out of the way. Stacking smaller panels also now becomes interior shelving for things like rearranging gear, etc. The only downside I’ve found with smaller stacking panels is that your bedding needs to go somewhere during the day and you just can’t push it up. I resolved this by making my hest mattress double as my bench seat cushion during the day. At night I just pop it up top. Takes 10 seconds. There’s a few videos on my channel that show my cut panels. Happy to make a quick video geared specially to life around panel living if you want. Cheers.
Everyone is raving about the Atlas, I absolutely need to look at one more closely and borrow as many ideas as I can!
If you have the bed slide front to back , you could reach both sides to close it.
That is a good option that I hadn't thought about. Especially because I never really plan to be inside with the roof and bed down anyway... so if I bring it down kind of in the middle of the space I could reach the roof front and back...
Hmmmm.
Thanks!
Many good thoughts to read in the comments! My experience with my wedgeshaped roof: If you have solar on it you can position your vehicle to have greater yield. In stormy weather you will still have a good nights sleep if you point the hinges into the wind. With the flat roof you will always catch the wind in the canvas and your vehicle will shake a lot more.
You are absolutely right, those are the pros of a wedge for sure.
I just can't get over the idea that I won't be able to stand up and walk around in the entire floorplan
Drill a small hole in the bed platform, stitching up the mattress, and pass through a pull strap when you are ready to bring the top down, pulling on the strap from underneath the bed.
I preferred wedge pop-up type, less latch to unlock/lock, as for the pop-up side, you should take a look at pop-up camper made by company name "Hardsider", their popup side are semi-hard sided, seems more insulated compared to canvas
To get custom canvas, you can ask around your closest marina. I'm sure the folks that stitch sails and marine upholstery could make you something nice.
I've asked a few (although I'm 600 miles from the ocean....) and while they're great at sails and boat covers, they're not so experienced with bug netting and zips and windows and corners. I'll keep calling around
@@TheRoadChoseMe The lack of bugnet experience makes sense but I'm surprised by the rest. The area I'm in (southern california) lots of people have dodgers and bimini tops made of canvas that fold and zip and provide weather protection. 🤷♂
Good luck on the project
good points ideal size smaller cabs utes /pickups . ranger super cab. Nissan frontier king cab , tacoma access cab they have a 6' box over the 5' box on the crew cabs
I think you might be overthinking this a bit. You want the full pop top. As for pulling it down, you already said to have the bed basically full floating so you can move it. To close the top you just need a strap through the ends of the bed to pull it down. And upholstery shop that makes boat tops can fab up what you need for material. Most marine grade stuff should be fine. Like you said though you can get it made with insulation in the middle and a nice design sewn into it and windows etc.
G’day Dan…I have a Metalink Side Lift Roof canopy, made on the Sunshine Coast. I have had it for 10 years now and it gives me so much height that I can stand up on my mattress without hitting my head, but I am vertically challenged 😁
Btw the roof is raised and lowered with an electric actuator and has gas struts to assist. It’s very easy to raise and lower the roof
I will check it out, thanks!
You should talk to Arnold at Overland Explorer Vehicles in Reddeer,AB. He had a very ingenious hinged bed design for his smallest pop up camper. He could also do your soft sides, windows, and roof mechanism too.
Ah, thanks, I completely forgot they are relatively close to me.
I've been watching a ton of videos on their stuff - I'll reach out!
@@TheRoadChoseMe years ago they had a short "non cab over" model they only made a few of with a double hinged bed design that bent &lifted to the ceiling. It was a genius idea for a flat roof model that allowed for bedding to stay up while the bed was lifted.
I concur on the basic idea of a setup which doesn't require you to set up/break down the bed every night. Especially if you're living out of the vehicle for an extended time (say > 1 month). Our build is an adventure van with a convertible dinette. In bed mode it's great, but having to move the cushions and temporarily store the bedding to set up the dinette really does get old. Most days we just leave it in bed mode. Lessons learned, including the fact that there's really no one setup that checks all of the boxes (ease of setup, comfort, security at night, weather protection in storms, compactness of vehicle, ability to carry and sleep more than 2 people, stealth, full height standup, etc, etc.) I can also say by first-hand experience that, during a windstorm with lightning, thunder and hail, you'll wish you were in a van rather than a tent setup!
Not at all - some of my most memorable nights from 3 years around Africa were the wind, lighting and rainstorms.
I honestly had no idea it could rain that hard on planet earth!
I suppose there could be an adventurous thrill in having it rain or snow so hard you get water intrusion in your sleeping area and you're up all night d/t the tent canvas flapping, cause you're right in the middle of the tempest? It didn't do that for us though, so we switched to a cozy van setup with a diesel heater and MaxAir fan for ventilation. Our vehicle is a 4WD diesel Hiace. Different strokes for different folks. Your videos have inspired us to travel North to the Arctic Ocean, and all across Northern Canada, and I do thank you for the wisdom and for sharing your experiences!@@TheRoadChoseMe
Never had a single drop of rain in the sleeping area, and the canvas wasn't loud.
In my experience a well designed pop-top can provide a perfectly warm, dry and comfortable sleeping area.
Enjoy every second of the trip to the Arctic - it's utterly incredible!
Dan, Talk to Jay at OVRLND Campers about your canvas part of the pop-up. He can tell you about the fabric he uses and how the roof is supported when popped up.
I have the Ursa Minor and live full time in it for over a year now. I find myself sleeping below on the 60% delete Goose Gear Platform about 1/2 the time because it is so quiet and out of the weather. I use a 3" tri-fold mattress which works well both up and down. I like the wedge roof because I can angle my 175 Watt Solar Panel into the sun especially during the winter months and there is plently of standing room. Whichever way you go, reliability is key since the way you designed the living area there will be no option other than to sleep up top. I am sure your final product will be a great build!
I loved living in my Ursa Minor for almost 5 years full time, it worked great for what I was doing, but provided very, very little interior living space.
So I want to greatly improve that for this vehicle.
How about a double wedge. That way, you get the best of both worlds and your bed problem becomes easier to resolve. I'd suggest taking a look at how Bushwakka of South Africa do it on their products.
Heavy, complicated and expensive. While they look really cool, it's not just not something I'm considering.
This is an outstanding project, Dan. I get a lot out of hearing you go through your thought process. It almost sounds like a sail maker would have the skills you need.
I've spoken to a few, and while they're very good, they don't have a lot of experience with zips that go around corners, or bug netting. I'll keep looking!
You could mimic the wedge design of your Ursa Minor. Some scissor hinges that lift the entire roof at a radius angle, giving it a wedge look but you get some head room at the look side, and additional space to collapse the bed away.
I do like the idea of the non-fixed bed platform for the vertical pop up roof as well
The challenge with the scissor hinges is it makes the bed just as complicated as the vertical, but isn't as much of a headroom win at the vertical.
@@TheRoadChoseMe that makes sense! If you were to do a non-fixed bed platform, would it be one full panel, or split it into 2 or 3 panels?
One panel for sure, so the bed is always ready to go. I don't want to assemble anything.
Straps from the front of the roof, to under the front of the bed, going to back of the bed.
The straps are now firmly under the bed when top is popped.
When you want to close the roof, you pull the straps at the back of the bed, and can close it from all 4 sides from one place.
It seems like the best option for this type of pop top is similar to your last jeep. Where the wedge starts further forward over the front seats. Not sure if you can change to that sort of style where the camper extends out over the top of the front seats. That would allow a wedge and simplify the bed platform and simplify closing etc.
That would be a monumental shift to the design, which is utterly impossible at this stage.
I go into detail about why it doesn't do that in this video: ua-cam.com/video/60dMRurJCiE/v-deo.html
Closing the full pop-up: If the bed is free to move, slide it forward to pull down the rear, then slide it to the rear to pull down the front.
As someone else noted, you'll still need something to stop the roof section twisting/rotating around the vertical axis.
That is a very interesting option I hadn't thought about, and I think that should work well
@@TheRoadChoseMe 🍻
@@theroadchoseme if you end up going with the flat roof, ensure it has the ability to either tip of hold an extra few hundred pounds when up (snow load). I assume you could/will encounter 2 to 3 feet or wet heavey snow overnight. Having the ability to tip it will help slide the snow off. Using the modern method that most tent trailers use elimates that. We had an old tent trailer from the 50s that allowed this.
I agree the vertical straight up is the way to go. If you look at the companies who I believe have been around the longest (Alaskan Camper and Four Wheel Camper) both do it that way. Have you considered doing more of a cap design like Alaskan Camper. The whole top dropping down over the sides of your box.
The hybrid caravan manufacturers have various solutions for vertical pop tops that may be worthwhile investigating.
Hi Dan, going to the arctic soon, hoping for some proper cold. On the way back from northern Scotland, had some reasonable frost there. I imagine that you, as a Canadian will have much more experience with the cold, so I’m really interested in finding out what insulation you end up with.
I had a 2kw Chinese heater piped into the tent, which was great for drying the tent, getting rid of condensation, and for putting on fresh undies in the morning. But even on the lowest setting, I found it far to hot to sleep with.
Not sure how the branded ones stack up, but I’ve found that the heater does not like to do ‘short bursts’. Takes a little bit for it to heat up (which takes more battery during that time because of the glow plug) before it starts burning cleanly. I usually run mine on full power at start up and wind down, to make sure I can burn of potential sooth.
Anyway, just throwing my limited experiences out there. Heading for the arctic soon, let me know if I can test anything while there. Build is looking amazing.
On the topic of canvas and closing, even the very expensive bush company tents aren’t great at not having canvas sticking out.. the Eezi awn tents use elastics with a clip in the middle. If you connect those in a cross I’ve found the canvas tucks in nicely.
I’ve been toying with the idea of a spring loaded lanyard, like the ones you have to hold ski-passes for example, similar to how a tape measure works. This would mean no dangling cords while the bed is made.
Talking about dangling cords. You could put a semicircular hole on the end of the bed platform to feed a strop through that connects to the roof. This should allow you to close the roof from inside.
If you end up going custom canvas, try calling your local sail loft. They are used to cost no object, quality first, one off manufacturing. Just the kind of thing your looking for.
Thanks, I've tried a few already, and while they are great at things like boat covers and sails, they're not so good at zips that go around corners and things like that.
But for sure it's an option I'm exploring.
I agree with you on sleeping under canvas. I also love it too. We have an AT Summit and it's fantastic. The speed of set up and take down with the wedge is great and it's super roomy. We live at over 10,000 feet in Colorado and with ATO's 3M thinsulate liner the canvas is super warm with our Truma heater. It also keeps it cooler in the summer. Canvas with proper insulation can be warmer than most think. If I were you I'd stick with the simple wedge shape. It's easier to engineer, especially the bed platform. If you want more room at the door end you can always just build a dormer that pops open. That would give you standing headroom and also a cool view when in the bed. A few moving parts but still probably easier overall than trying to figure out the vertical wall thing.
Thanks for the input.
Do you leave on the insulated layer when folding away the roof, or do you have to take it off first?
Thanks!
I leave it on. Last year I did take it off for a few weeks over the summer but ended up putting it back on as it helps keep the heat out and makes it much darker inside for sleeping. The AT Summit has enough room to close down with the insulated liner to remain in place along with our bedding.@@TheRoadChoseMe
Thankyou!
If goal is living space it’s worth the effort for the vertical. I’d reach out to popup camper companies and canvas suppliers as they make a similar system as theirs is vertical and canvas folds on the bed. Wish I knew a good way or direction for the bed as I’m coming up blank on that end.
Thanks for the tips!
If I would have the time and MONEY I would see whether I can install electrical linear actuator at all four corners of the camper pushing the roof up or bringing it down. Same on the inside for the bed platform to move the bed up and out of the way during the day or when bringing the roof down.
For the roof pull-down, has anyone suggested using some para-cord-type line (or other cable) and toggles, guided through perimeter (of the bed frame) mounted tubes? Long enough to just touch the underside of the bed at night with the roof up, but easily tied up and stowed when walking around, and easy enough to aquire in adequate lengths for little cost.
Hmmm, I have not thought about a system like that, I'll do some googling and see if I can find some videos of a similar setup.
If you don't want the weight of the bed and bedding when it's up to be supported by the roof struts, consider swing down legs on each corner of the bed that rest in the rails on the wall that hold up the bed when it's down. If you are fine with the weight of the bed and bedding when it's up to be supported by the roof struts, consider straps that hang down from the roof and attach (hook? big snap?) under each corner of the bed. The straps could be long enough to always end up under the bed, e.g. 3+ feet long, with an attachment point in the strap maybe 10 inches from the roof which can slide around the side of the bed when the bed comes down. Not easy to describe just using words, but hopefully the ideas came through.
nice video, your setup is coming together well. The only thing i would mod is the bed size...my BFF/Wife of the last 40yrs and i have morphed our bed size from King size, to Queen size, and now, for the last ~6 years, a Full size (54"w X 75" long) WE LOVE IT!! Doing so in your rig would yield another ~8" on the floor space at night to go #1 or #2 if need be... any "Partner" would appreciate the greater floor space, more so than having to happily snuggle up a bit on a mattress that is a wee bit wider. Oh, and i a 'rig'?? We lived full time in a custom van conversion for nearly 2 years and it has a custom latex/froli bed that is 50"w X 72" long (I'm 5'8" and it fits fine, my wife is 5'3").
Thanks for the tips!
Happijac! It's what some sprinter van folks use. I believe it's electric with manual override. If it's lightweight, I'd fashion a pulley system to lift it up to the roof and lips/rails at three sides of contact to support when down.
They look super sweet, and super, super heavy!
Vertical. I don't have a simple answer to make it work, but you'll be happier with the added space. Don't come so far to make such a huge compromise. The last thing I would say, can you design one that would work as both a vertical or wedge? In case you ended up in a gnarly storm and had to take some of the wind load off the top?
There are double wedge designs. One wedge sitting on top of the other, facing opposite ways. When both are popped, it is vertical. When only one is, it is a wedge either which way.
@@d37tae That's what I'm talking about!
I think it should be possible to only open one end of a vertical popup and leave the other end latched. I know people do that on OEV campers and it works in a pinch
Personally I'd go with either the slat forward design (piano hinge at the front) but the vertical is a close second. The primary reason for the slant forward is less weight and still able to stand in most of it, the bed area still has enough space, just need to remember to not sit up quick, and the fact that it opens from the rear means if anything breaks or you forget to secure it down, the wind while driving will help keep it down, verses if you had the hinge at the rear you would have a giant air break and may end up with damage from branches and such if that ever were to happen, it shouldn't happen but Murphy's law and all that! I always like to consider all sides of things including as many what-ifs as I practically can.
7:00 jaust install one memeber that runs from the front end of the box to the back back end of the box. if this is only 7,5 feet no problem.
The design needed 8 tubes inside, 2 in each corner for the top up and bed and to prevent any swaying when popped.
Probably need vertical gas struts to lift the bed out of the way?
I still think an asymmetric wedge, where one side lifts 50cm, other side lifts 100cm is the best option, you don't get that tight area at the piano hinge. However you get all the problems of the vertical pop and the awkward shape canvas to sow/have made and more hinges/struts and therefore weight of the roof. But space wise its the best - the Africa Jeep had a little asymmetric pop and I think it really makes a difference to bed space; especially when there are 2 of you.
I seriously considered using the identical scissor hinges to the Africa Jeep (John from Ursa Minor will sell them to me no problem)
As you said I get all the complexity of the bed and difficult canvas, but not much more interior space.
If I'm going to get all that complexity, I've decided I want the full vertical pop
Dan this is an awesome video! Really inspiring build
I don’t have direct experience with their products but I believe one of the guys at Super Pacific has a background in fabric design. Maybe it would be worth reaching out to them?
Awesome thank you!
Hey mate, when is the roof / bed lift video coming out? Been waiting for weeks 😅 really interested to see your solutions
As soon as I get it edited together! It's coming, I promise!!
I have learned so much from your videos, amazing work. When I’m done with school here in Korea, I will build my first overlanding vehicle and start my adventure in America. Thanks for the inspiration
Great to hear!
hey Dan, why don't you make it a longer clam shell pop top hinged at the front but extending out over the roof rack above your spare wheel? That would give you more standing room inside the camper.
My years of torrential rain on previous expeditions have taught me I do not want canvas as the roof taking the brunt of the rain. For the walls it was OK, on the roof it would have lasted 5 minutes before soaking through.
I never knew it could rain that hard, and it did for 12 hours a day. West Africa is wild!
Straight up popper more room simple
Another option is to use a linear actuator on each corner. That would allow you to load up more stuff on the roof (if you have the structural integrity) and not have it be a problem at all with raising/lowering. Given the boxy nature of your camper, they would fit easily on it. The only difficult part is making them all work in sync, but I'm pretty sure you're crafty enough to figure that out.
They are very expensive, and heavy.
Also if you put them on the inside, they get in the way of the canvas.
If you put them on the outside, they'll get torn off on tree branches.
So for me, and this build, it's not something I'm looking at.
How about a design like bundu tec. They have a pop that uses a pulley system and a motor.
Maybe Aerogel insulation or fabric would be good.
It adds complexity but have you thought about a design similar to a bush company tx27 roof top tent? it is effectively two wedge hinges with one at each end. That could work with the bed issue
It's an interesting concept, but I think it's heavier, more expensive, more seals to leak, more complicated and more to go wrong.
At this point, I'm not looking at that kind of option.
Your requirements might be met by someone who designed a toilet that will flush without gravity.
I see G'nB raise and lower their 4WC from the inside - seemingly getting the canvas to fold in nicely. Now, I wonder how they deal with the corners. Spandex and Merino might be useful.
No doubt 4WC have solved this problem for decades and done it very well, I'm trying to learn as much as possible from them!
Dan. Have you talked to Sportsmobile? They’ve done a lot of different designs over the years.
I have not talked to them directly, though I have certainly spent a long time looking at how they function. Thanks for the idea, I'll reach out
Vertical pop style could have problems in snow. Who knows--you could find yourself crushed or trapped in bed if you were to get a bunch of the heavy, wet stuff. You could fit solid props in the corners, but even then it might also be tough to clear off snow from the high horizontal surface.
It will for sure have a safety locking mechanism to keep it up in the event of heavy snowfall
What about some sort of drawstring sewn into the canvas that is accessible from the side of the bed you can get to?
I think something like that will be the way to go, though I'm actually thinking on the outside like my Ursa Minor J30. I think I'll pull the front closed inside, then go outside to do the rear.
What about an elastic string around the canvas siding to pull it in when you are lowering the top? You don't have to race everywhere to tuck the canvas in.
I will be doing that for sure!
Dan, I think the wedge defeats the original purpose / goals of the camper. If you go with a vertical pop-up, I am picturing a bed platform that has 2 hinges in it. One hinge is at the back of the camper at the height it would be for in-use (top of your current set-up at the back). The other hinge comes a ~couple feet forward on the platform the distance when pushed up vertically will fit with mattress and bedding up against the back wall and roof of the pop-up. The remainder of the platform is just the remaining width of your planned bed size. This panel with mattress and bedding will lay flat up against the roof of the pop-up. The mattress will need to be custom with a hinge at the bending point at the hinge that goes up into the back top corner of the pop-up. So, I can picture when you want to push the bed up out of the way, you go to the hinge that is ~2 ft from the rear to push up and get it started in that direction. Then go to the front edge of the bed and push it up and back the rest of the way. So, the aft panel stands vertically and the fore panel sits horizontally. How it stays up? I'm kind of thinking two ~2 foot legs that drop down at the left and right of the vehicle just long enough to wedge against the bed platform support lip that would normally hold the bed in sleeping position. Potentially, those short legs give you that reach to push it up one side at a time. With the bed up, you can't see out the back window, but you still have the 3 other sides. The front several feet of the pop-up will be exposed and you will have that full vertical height clearance there. When the bed is down resting on the support lip, you will have use of all 4 side windows when you are up in bed. If you are interest in what I am explaining here, and want clarity. I would be happy to sketch it up and send it to you.
That is a really interesting idea, though I think that means the bed platform completely obscures either the front or rear canvas - meaning no window and no light on that side.
I like the idea for sure and I'm going to think more about it - thanks!
@TheRoadChoseMe it would obscure 1 window in the back when up, but would enable even more full headroom than if it lifted as 1 unhinged platform. When down you would have all 4 windows when you go up to sleep..
Hi Dan, what about wildlife like lions, elephants, rhino's in Africa and bears in Canada...They can easily scratch the fabric I think. Do you have some experience living in between the wildlife? Best regards, David.
Shock/elastic cord to go around the middle of the canvas to pull it in as you close if.
Absolutely, that will be a must
You’re just describing the setup of the Alu-cab Icarus/Hercules pop roof conversions. 😂 it’s the best design for what you’re looking to do.
No idea how to do it but can you do a hybrid version of the wedge. Where you raise the low end and have canvas all the way around. Basically split the difference between the two designs that you are looking at.
You can with a scissor hinge on the low end, which is what my Ursa Minor J30 has.
The problem there is then I get all the complexities of the bed platform needing to be like the vertical pop, but not nearly the interior stand up walk around space of the vertical pop.... so I don't think it's worth it.
I watch a you tube channel down to mob he has a lift for the camper he has build for his jeep. Still not sure on bed though. Sorry
The company that made that don't make it anymore, their new solution is $900 USD and very heavy. It's also too bulky to fit in my camper
Have you spoken to Ollie at Headspace Camper? I think he had an idea for a pop up roof he preferred, but couldn't make it work financially so went with the wedge. He may have come across the same issue?
I have not spoken to Ollie, I'll reach out!
I've found Overland Explorer in Red deer Alberta to be really receptive of selling components they use in their campers. I've purchased a couple things from them. I'm sure they'd be open to at least giving some advice on the canvas.
Maybe it's worth the investment to get an electrical system for the bed and roof. Have a simple button somewhere in the vehicle so you can close the whole thing whilst siting in the driving seat. It coule be the same as how you can open and close electric blinds. I know the sportmobile vans use electric systems like this. It's probability a bit more complicated and expensive but if you're living in it full time for years probability worth it.
Those are not only expensive, but also heavy. They're also very bulky, and would take up a lot of internal volume. Then there is the problem of how they mess with how the canvas folds in.
They're cool, but I don't think they fit with this camper
@@TheRoadChoseMe yeah that's all drawbacks, but it seems to me the perfect solution doesn't exist for your set up
Thanks for sharing your thought process. Can't argue with your experience and knowing what works for you👍
I just finished my camper build. I did a vertical pop-up with hard sides and a stationary bed, so it's a bit different. I installed some handles in the ceiling so I can pull the pop-up down more easily.
ua-cam.com/video/GV-bG3O56RY/v-deo.htmlsi=BGqqJrGpBN8rQEbX
Another thought I had was that you could do a bit of a cabover section on the front of the camper. This would give you some room to move the sleeping platform further forward and give you more space behind the sleeping platform to stand while you manipulate the roof and the platform into the up or down position.
Alternatively if you do the cabover and a wedge-style pop-up with the hinge at the front. The cabover will move the hinge a couple feet forward and provide you with more headroom in the rest of the camper.
Thanks for the input!
I go into why this vehicle is not a cab over in this video - ua-cam.com/video/60dMRurJCiE/v-deo.html