Studio Wiring: Recording Console - Patchbay - Interface
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- I get a lot of questions about how I get sound from the console to the computer. It's really a pretty simple setup that I'll explain in this video (with some cool animations too!) I will also answer a common question I get from some of you about using budget mixers not necessarily meant for recording.
Studio wiring doesn't have to be super complicated at first. As you start adding more outboard gear it can get messy but with a basic understanding of what you're doing and a little planning it's possible to get a smooth setup that makes all of your sessions run smooth.
Hooking up a patchbay and outboard gear to your computer live stream: • Video
The patchbay at Ultimate Studios, Inc: • USI's Central Nervous ...
WE HAVE MERCH!
Check out the the "Master Fader" T-shirts and "No Coffee. No Recording." coffee mug!
bit.ly/usimerch
Mixing & Mastering
Let us help you make your music sound just the way you want it to.
For more details and to book a session please contact us at: bit.ly/contact...
Drum Re-Amping Service! bit.ly/drumreamp
If you are recording at home, in your rehearsal space or anywhere that doesn't necessarily have a great room then I have something for you! Re-Amp your already recorded drum tracks in the room here at Ultimate Studios, Inc. I have some super affordable packages and would love to help you take your sounds to the next level.
Fine tune your drum recording chops!
ultimatestudio...
Save 7% off your first year's membership by joining DistroKid at: www.distrokid.c... -
Get your music ONLINE and OUT TO THE WORLD!
New Facebook group for the Live Broadcast Crew!!! This will allow us to share photos and links with each other that we can't really do on UA-cam.
bit.ly/usibroa...
About Ultimate Studio, Inc
Recording Services: bit.ly/recordin...
Mixing & Mastering Services: bit.ly/mixingma...
/ ultimatestudiosinc
/ ultimatestudiosinc
Recording Ninja Workshops: www.RecordingNi...
Charlie's Social Media:
/ charliewaymire
/ cwaymire
Ultimate Studios, Inc is a full service recording studio, mixing studio and band development resource located in Los Angeles, CA.Panorama City, CA 91402
www.UltimateStu...
We believe EVERYONE deserves great sounding music!
Ultimate Studios, Inc is a boutique production facility for artists and bands to collaborate, create, and record. Led by Producer/Engineer Charlie Waymire, our team assists artists through the entire creative process including recording, mixing, mastering, and video production. Our ultimate goal is to help bands and artists build a strong brand for a lasting career!
We also have one of the best drum recording studios in Los Angeles!
recording studio los angeles, north hollywood, van nuys,recording, mixing, mastering, video production, rock recording studio
Glad I came across your channel. Short and to the point. Very helpful. Thank you and God bless you.
Yours was the most helpful I have seen. I'm going old school with a 40 channel soundcraft gb8 (yeah I know it's over kill) but this board fell in my lap at a price I couldn't pass up. NOW I've played in bands for years and using a mixer in these settings are not that complicated. BUT a recording studio goes to a whole new level, routing, tps, ts, computer softwear, effect loops, vst's. The cabling cost a fortune, and where to house it(a building) etc. Oh and my Interface. Putting this all together on a vid would be killer, THANKS
Hi Charlie, for lower end live mixers, it's worth pointing out that many have insert jacks that can be utilized as direct outs by plugging in a TS plug halfway. That's usually before any EQ or effects, so you're limited to input gain and low cut, but it's definitely a way to get discrete tracks into your DAW if your interface just has line inputs. It's also a way to record a live show.
Of course, monitoring is another issue, especially when overdubbing.
Thats how I set up my system.... I have a 40 channel console that I split. I use the inserts for outboard gear. I will set it up a little different when I get some highend mic pres. But this the best way for me and its fast. Good video!!!
Charlie, I've struggled to catch the whole picture. Your videos managed to clarify everything! Thank you a lot for all the work you put in these.
gonzorudeboy Awesome! So happy to hear that. Thanks for watching!
DITTO
needs to actually show the connections being made more, not just talking and the watcher imagining it in their head
Been down the rabbit hole and actually just bought a mixer with Direct Outs on every channel. This video was very validating in that respect and put me a bit at ease! Also, I appreciated the advice to go direct into the audio interface as I don't really have a ton of outboard gear. Was thinking I would want a patchbay but now I might try without and see how it goes, Thanks for this!
Thanks for keeping it simple, showing the diagrams of the back of the mixer and not taking forever to get the message across. Great video! Subscribed.
Thank you! Glad the video helped!
This guy is doing super good job
Fantastic setup Charlie! Looking forward to completing mine, exactly the same way, with my toft atb16 and Antelope Orion 32.
Thank you! How are you liking the Toft?
@@Ultimatestudiosinc I'm loving the eq! Workflow with the direct outs (and the inserts) is fantastic as well! Using it mostly for final eq and summing.
Your gear is totally rad! As in hot water radiator!
Thank you... I needed this video I just bought the Toft audio designs 16 channel 8 bus mixer, This was very informational
if you know your way around a soldering iron it is possible to mod an existing mixer to have direct outs. depending on the configuration every channel will have either a unity buffer or a variable gain op-amp pretty close to the input, but before the summing and routing stage. simply solder a nice big cap, into a 100 ohm or so resistor, into a 1/4 jack coming off of the output of each channel's main input op-amp. if you manage to find a schematic or just spend some time probing around the board, you might also be able to add in Prefader/Postfader switches.
one major note about this: don't connect these outputs to anything with too low an input impedance; it will almost certainly load down the mixer's guts in weird and unexpected ways.
Great explanation I will have to deal with the similar situation son., many thanks
Good luck!!
Hello, Charlie. Great video! Your channel is my mainsource of information and inspiration in my pursuit of good recordings. Congratulations, sir and keep safe always. God bless you always.
Very nice information 👌
Thank you!! Glad you enjoyed it.
Can highly recommend the soundcraft signature 22MTK for anyone looking for a simple multitrack recording desk. It has built in I/O so no need for direct outs
The Soundcraft gear is great!
Because i’m 16 and broke, my hybrid setup is actually quite odd (but it works.) I have a budget 8 channel mixer, with a single AUX send.
On my computer, I run the main out to my 1st computer input, and the AUX out to my 2nd computer input.
For drums, I have 4 mics. I pan the overheads and some slight eq on the mixer. I run the kick and snare full through the AUX send, then the overheads go out the mains.
From there, I record straight into the computer with 2 separate tracks in my DAW (overheads, kick/snare.)
I then take the “kick/snare” and send it to an output bus track in my DAW, and send it to a headphone out of my computer.
From the computer headphone out, it goes directly into an outboard compressor. Then from the compressor, back into one of the channels on my mixer, which runs out of my mains to my computer. On occasion I’ll do some extra EQ on the mixer at this point.
Then it gets recorded on a new track. I then delete the unaffected track as it is not needed anymore. (basically an abnormal send/return.)
For guitars, bass, everything else... I make individual tracks in my DAW. I mic amps and go into my mixer (vocals is straight into the mixer.) I use the same method I used for the compressor as before.
I then will use plug-ins like reverb and EQ, and adjust levels from there.
I was debating buying a Behringer MiniFBQ FBQ800 (outboard EQ) and side-chaining it with the compressor, so I can use less plug-ins.
Thanks for reading!
(Sorry this is EXTREMELY long and confusing lol)
Hey Patty! As long as it works for you and you get the results you want then it's awesome! Sometimes having limitations in the workflow can lead to cool results. Thanks for watching and happy mixing/recording!
So informative this is exactly what I needed
Since I don´t record many channels at once, I just use my Mackie 16 ch. mixer as an extender for the interface. I´ve hooked up 4 of the auxes for recording, 2 directly, 2 through a compressor. All I have to do is open the tap to one of those and arm the relevant track. Monitoring can be had through the mixer itself or in the interface, as needed.
Very well explained,I am a subscriber now and look forward to more videos thank you
Your a great teacher!
Very useful, very cool. Grazie and ciao from Italy :)
I really enjoy all your videos. You’re always on point with your topic and most of all you know what you’re doing. God bless Sir👍🏼
Enzo Taylor Muzik Thank you and thanks for watching!
Insanely helpful vid thank you
Great video. Thanks.
Nice video and great info for someone looking to run a mixer into a DAW.
I am actually wiring currently a Hybrid studio set up with an Allen Heath 32 channel mixer (it has Direct outs on all channels) and running them into a Presonus Series III 32S model digital mixer. The Presonus, in essence, is my AD/DA convertor into my DAW.
I am still working out which method is best to wire the two consoles up together. I did just also move all my vintage rack gear from along side the mixer to behind the consoles, so taking some time to get it all together. It is a little more complicated then normal because I have a Star Ground system employed from my old studio set up (with telescoping shields on the audio cables as well), so I am in week two of this process. Great info on your video and well explained. Kudos...
BTW: A friend of mine has a similar Trident. Super nice consoles...All the best.
Phil
NYC Area
Easy! Thanks!
Great vid thank you. I know you mentioned you were just focusing on the direct outs of the console channels today, but curious how you handle the stereo master mix out of the console. Does that also just go into a couple of additional inputs on the MOTU in the event you build the mix on the console and want to capture the stereo mix from the console to a stereo channel on the DAW?
Stephen Lindsay Great question! In the case I’m mixing on the console (which I almost always do) the stereo outs of the Trident go to my mix i/o which is an Apogee Rosetta 200. Since I have to use both the MOTU and the Apogee they are clocked with an Apogee Big Ben.
Best video ever
Perfect explanation! But how do you turn the signal flow to the mix?
Shouldn't the thumbnail say "Answering questions" instead of "Ansering questions"?
The Mackie vlz16 the one you used as an example has 8-direct outs ..
i'm sorry1 a direct out for each channel
Why did you come out of the Trident Direct out back into the patchbay instead of going directly into the Motu?
Great question! Having the direct outs in the patchbay gives me more routing options. For instance, when I’m mixing I’ll use the direct outs as another mono bus send.
When we live stream I always bring the stream feed back to a pair of faders and then use the direct out to send to the Blackmagic switch.
If the direct outs were hardwired to the MOTU I wouldn’t be able to use them that way. Basically it’s for expanded workflow options.
How do you record back into the computer a print track
Thank you so much for this. I am in the starting process of hybrid mixing with a Soundcraft 800B console (16:8:2). Just starting to route and your info is very useful. How do you route your speakers, via monitor station of some sort or via console outputs? Also where would I connect my mixer main outputs, to soundcard (Apollo Quad) inputs or main monitors? And what is your prefered routing in this scenario for external hardware like buscompressors, 1176, LA2As etc? Do you patch them in a bay or route to inserts on mixer? Would deeply appreciate any help. Not many videos I find with this particular angle. Huge thanks for your vids. Cheers!
Thanks a lot Charlie. What is the model of the Motu you are using?
I'm on the no budget plan. I plug directly into my I/O which goes directly to my computer. Not ideal but it's what I have to work with.
Mark Cappo That sounds like a nice simple and effective setup!! Happy recording!
I could really use your help whenever you get time.
We just got an ssl duality, and I really need to know how to setup daw sessions to flow correctly.
An example is how interfaces are automatically set to use output 1+2 for monitor outs, but I need those for mixer channels 1+2
Due to cost in setting up a 24 channel hybrid studio using an analog desk with the latest expensive interfaces, I was thinking of using the older Motu 24 i/o Firewire interface with the 424 PCIe card into my computer to potentially capture 24 analog channels at once into my DAW. and then be able to send the 24 separate signals back into the analog desk to mix into a final stereo track. Although your set up uses awesome converters and with a world clock, can I get away with what I am thinking?
I actually use 24i/o interfaces. But they are only line inputs and have no mic pres. If you want to capture analog inputs you'll also need mic pres. A console makes that easier but there are other less expensive options too. Maybe use a couple 8 channel mic pre units plugged into the 24i/o.
Thanks for the reply and you have a great set up there as well as a good understanding of recording drums properly from a drummer's point of view. Yes the 24i/o has no preamps and that is fine as I intend to use both the pre's from a 40 channel analog desk along with outboard gear for that. I am more interested in just using the 24i/o for both AD and DA conversion and also how stable this unit is under windows 11 (or maybe even Mac too). I also have a Presonus 8-channel interface with pre's that I can also incorporate.
Wish i'd watched this video first. Very easy to understand. :)
Thank you for watching!!
Hi! How do you handle musicians cue mixes?
How do you get the daw audio back into the board to mix on the board instead of in the daw?
Any singular respective track or bus in the DAW routed through a single output line out number from the interface, into any single mic inputs on the analogue desk, and then either mixing through the desk channel strip or maybe also through the aux options, which can be used with send and return running through outboard gear. Or else you can run the path straight from the output into the outboard gear, either standalone in whatever chain, or through patch bays or summing mixers or whatever you'd prefer.
Hello Zenzible, I guess there is a little mistake in the chain you write, I mean when you describe the path from the interface outs. From what I know, in general, every single interface outs (that are usually set at Line level +4dB), don’t run into any single Mic input (Mic level) of the Trident mixer, but run into any single Line inputs of the Trident itself, as those inputs match the +4dB Line level. Or, as an alternative, they can run into the Tape return inputs, as they are at Line level too. Hope not to be wrong, maybe Charlie could confirm or not about this...
I would like to add a question: any difference, in terms of operativity, if the interfaces outs go to the line inputs or to the tape return inputs of your Trident? Thank you!
@@robertolotti2669 yeah I guess you're right. One solution to that is some sort of reamper or impedance attenuator or di box that could exact the line levels by input and output. But that would mean a whole lot of boxes in the case of a large number of outputs. So preferably there should be some kind of medium which supports the exact numbers of I/O needed.
Do you have any recommendations on small format consoles that have plenty of direct outs per individual track, that are on the more affordable side? Any thoughts on like vintage teac or tascam mixers?
Ok, now that I recorded, how do I use the mixer to mix it
Thank you for great video! Can you recommend how to proper set the input levels from DAW to line inputs of mixer. I am using Focurite Saffire pro into the old Studiomaster 16-4-2 Series 5, with Logic and Pro Tools. I am using 1kHz sine generator from DAW but I don't know how much dBFS should be; -20, -18, -12....All the best
Thank you for simplifying....what if all my direct outs are post EQ but pre-fader? would I use the group/bus outs instead?
what console/mixer do you have? If that were the scenario, and assuming your tracking through your mixer, I would probably use the group/bus outs so you get some volume control.
@@Ultimatestudiosinc its an older Crest HP series
When clipping the master bus on the console, how do we pad our interface so that it doesn't clip digitally? I wanna clip during the analogue stage on the master fader, but if I connect the stereo out to the inputs on my focurite, it comes in too hot. How can I pad that signal so that I can capture the print at a proper level? thanks much
That is a great question. In my setup I have my mix bus chain AFTER that console so the master fader/outputs push out to the mix bus chain which is an Smart Research C1 --> Rupert Neve 542 --> SSL Ultraviolet. This setup allows me to push the console outputs (tranformers) hard, control how much compression/saturation is happening with one fader AND have final attenuation BEFORE my Rosetta if needed. The SSL Ultraviolet has an attenuation knob that allows me to pull the volume back right before the Rosetta if I need to. Though at this point I kind of have everything setup so I don't need to do that.
If you are not working with a mix bus chain in this way you would just need to get something between your console and the focusrite that allows you to attenuate the signal. You could have an inline pad built (maybe switchable depending on how much attenuation you need) or you could even try a compressor but not compress (though that may be tricky). Speck Electronics makes a simple fader system that might work too: www.speck.com/one_fader/onefader.html
Basically you just need to find a way to attenuate the signal coming out of the console and before the Focusrite.
@@Ultimatestudiosinc Ah, I see. Ok great. thanks much
Ok so let me better rephrase my question. I have a hip hop studio. We track only vocals. I have a toft atb 16 but I don’t use any of the mic pres. I have a bunch of outboard gear and 2 dbx trs patchbays. I have my mic pre going into the line input of channel 3. And channel 1-16 are going out the direct out puts to the interface inputs and the monitor inputs on each channel are going to the interface outputs. Now if I want to put a patch in between that what would be the best way of doing so? I can leave the mic pre on channel 3 unless recommended I do otherwise. I think I know the answer but I’m not 100% sure.
If I looked at your diagram basically on a normaled patchbay I think it would be the interface outputs in the top row of the patchbay then the console monitor inputs below on the same patch bay. Then the direct outputs from the console to the top row of the second patchbay followed by the inputs to the interface. Would that be correct?
Charlie, good vid.....So dumb question, when you go out from your mixer to your MoTu, then out to your DAW (I have Protools) when you move the fader on your mixer console do you see the fader moving on your DAW? If not how do you adjust the inputs into your DAW for when you mix the tracks? I subscribed and liked this vid!
Thank you for this video, really helps out a lot, especially since there’s really not much out there on hybrid mixing setups like this…
One question I have for you is cost. Looking at interfaces with the I/O capabilities needed for a full multi track setup, it seems that the interface alone would cost a good sum more than just buying a new analog mixer with a built in interface. Is there an interface you’d recommend, preferably without preamps, that would do the job in the $400-$600 range? Or am I truly better off with a new board with this ability built in? I’ve already got a killer 32 channel board I used to use live, it’d sure love a new lease on life!
cheapest way to get 32IO with new gear is 4 behringer ada8200s(cirrus converters, really more than good enough if you aren't doing this at his level) then slave them all via adat to an rme digiface usb. low latency 32 simultaneous ins and outs. Gonna cost close to 2 grand without any cabling though.
What I have set up is my 24 channel console, a motu 896mk3 hybrid with a motu 828mk2 and an art tubeopto8 slaved to it. I get 24 ins and 24 outs. I mix on my console and send the stereo mix plus 8 sub groups, 4 sends, and 4 auxes back into the computer with various processing. Gives me enough flexibility to get a final summed mix, and if I have to i can make some changes and "recall" most of what I have done via the sub groups and auxes since I do a lot of parallel processing. Having those processed tracks seperated in my daw means i can make some tweaks and send those tracks back out to sum again if I need to recall a mix but not 100%. Hopefully that makes sense.
Hey man! great video! just wanted to ask, for connecting the direct out to your Motu, does it have to be a TRS cable, or can also use a TS cable? Thanks!
What MOTU are you using?
OK... I want to use a separate all tube preamp that has built in eq and compression...(essentially it’s a channel strip in its own right)for each mic of the drums (for a warmer sound) and then send each output of each outboard preamp to a separate input channel of my mixer...my mixer has a built in interface output via usb, to send to my DAW...so, if I hook up a mic to the external pre, then send the line output of the pre, via a balanced TRS cable to the line input of each channel of the mixer, I will bypass the internal pre of the mixer ...correct? Obviously, I don’t want to fry my mixer...is this hookup I’ve described the correct?
Is it safe to assume that going direct out to interface will still send signal thru the mixer pre amps but not thru any channel controls? I.e. eq or panning? Pre fader?
No it's not going back through the preamps when mixing. It is either going through the line inputs or monitor inputs depending on where I want it to go. And there is full use of the channel controls, ie.. eq, panning, inserts and final level is controlled by the corresponding fader.
If it's a tracking session and the monitoring is being done analog on the console then the signals come back on the monitor section and doesn't NOT go back through and channel controls. Although on the Trident there is a switch for the eq to go to either the monitor section or channel.
What kind (Model ) of Motu is that you have ?
Trying to figure this out as well
I have a korg D16XD from 2009 or so. Do I need an interface to run into my computer?
hi charlie. thank you so much for that wonderful explanation. first time i got it (shame on me). but let‘s say i have a 20 channel line mixer with direct outs (speck xtramix x6) but no monitor ins to get the output signal from your audio interface back into the mixer. what would be your way to go then? wishing you a happy new year from switzerland. cheers! sebastian
Hey Sebastian! I'm trying to get caught up on comments but I'm a little behind. The Speck has 2-track returns that you could use for monitoring what is being recorded. Your mix would get done in the box, go out 2 tracks of your DAW and go into the 2-track return. Does that make sense?
That mixer looks pretty cool.
Hi from England, can you draw a diagram of the wiring I need to do from patchbay, interface, mixer, Mac, then I have compressor, CD player, reverb, plus other rack gear I’ve watched over and over but this is slipping by me many thanks, Ian
Hey man, what patchbays are you using. Are the db25 on the back or trs? Cheers :)
Please tell me how to connect my laptop to the mixer, from the mixer to the eq, from the eq, to the crossover, from the crossover, to the processor, and from there, to the amp???? Am I missing a piece of equipment in order to connect all of this? No, I do not have an interface nor patchbay.
Id like to mention if you have inserts on each channel you can use those as individual outs...my question is...from my board im sending each out into my computer independently..and it stops there im not coming back into the board from the computer...should i be ? And if so what is the advantage ?
Do you need any kind of buffer or dibox between the console and the patchy?
If your analog mixer didn't have direct outs but it had a send/return TRS port for each channel, could you abuse that with a Y-cable to send to your interface?
Your ears must have been burning because I was literally thinking about this yesterday! Yes you should be able to do this. I'm actually going to test this on the Trident this week for the master send/return since I don't actually use it. What mixer are you using?
@@Ultimatestudiosinc cool. let us know how you go.
@@Ultimatestudiosinc i dont have an analog mixer at the moment but if i do get one, its going to be cheap and second hand.
@@Ultimatestudiosinc also, do you want to test to see if a regular ts patch cable or regular trs will work? (i have no idea about electronics).
i used the “send” port from a guy’s bass guitar amp to pull a di signal once. that was probably send/return trs for a y cable.
Can u connect the outputs of the motu to the line ins of the mixer while having an xlr connected to it? Or will it cut the signal?
For mixers without monitor inputs and no tape returns
what is the purpose of the direct Outs , on my MACKIE SR40-8 I have direct Outs on every channel but I don't have my patchbay setup, I'am still trying to figure the patchbay out.
Hello can you help me out with my console ? thans a lot
are u put 48v thru patchbay?
motu what model?
Hi there - Im wondering what you do about phantom power through the patch bay? Do you use the phantom on the Trident (or your external presence) for those mics coming in from your mic lines in the live room? Ive seen conflicting evidence on this ("it works, but you shouldn't") kinda thing.
Hi Charlie, my mixing console is from 80s and the direct outs are RCA. Is that too bad in your opinion. Should I get the double RCA TO XLR cable, to get a better signal into the interface? Or can I just use one rca to xlr? The reason I ask is because in my desk there are for each channel 2 rca outs +4 and -10.
Thank you so much 🙏🏻
I have an answer but I want to check something with someone first.....give me a bit.
@@Ultimatestudiosinc thank you so much🙏🏻
Can you recommend some recording consoles?
What is the brand of your mixing console
Hey Eric! It’s a Trident 88.
What interface do you use exactly? I’m trying to find one like that with all those ins and outs.
It’s a MOTU 24 i/o PCIe 96khz
So if you have 2 normaled patchbays would you go out the direct outs from the console into the top row of the patchbay and have the interface inputs below on the same patchbay? Or would you have that be the inputs for the console and have the inputs of the interface on a seperate patchbay?
Hey Yung! Exactly! Top row of the patchbay is the console direct outs and the bottom row feeds the interface.
@@Ultimatestudiosinc thank you for your reply.
When you are listening back to a mix does your board control the different levels in the DAW as well or do you have to go to the computer for that? I feel like being able to actually mix on the board would be amazing as opposed to in the computer
Mix on the console and print Left and Right back to the daw
You can mix both on the mixer and computer once satisfied u have to record on two tracks left and right back to computer ur final mix
Sam G Hey Sam! I’m a hybrid setup but the analog does the heavy lifting. I like to get as much out on the console as possible and then mix back in 2 tracks through my mix i/o which is an Apogee Rosetta 200. The board itself doesn’t not control the DAW. I still do manual automation moves! Makes it more fun and interactive!
What kind of Motu is that
Dear content creators, my brothers, please stop playing the background music when there is a tutorial in session. I see so many of us asking for this especially when it’s slightly loud and looping. Does anyone agree with me? I can watch the video twice without it if i didn’t understand the first time but because of the loop I can’t do it so I look for another one. Thanks for the tutorial brother
I have a simpler answer, get an X32, all this, in one box, and 32 channels. Only downside is only 48khz recording, but who really goes over that anyway.
never behringer in my studio. maybe only synths.
@@a.a486 Well i find that to be a silly attitude. Who cares who's name is on it if it sounds good. I love this thing, you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands, so to each his own. I've got lots of their gear, and i have a powerhouse home studio, for the price of 2 of your Neve's, so I'm totally good.
Thank you for the video!!! 666 likes lol
Thanks for watching!!