4:00 that part is the negative spring, and does no sealing. That is the job of the plunger you left inside the stanchion 🤦. Also the air shaft holds the lowers on as well. The part at 6:02 is a plastic slider bushing, just like in Suntour XCR and lower forks.
Agree. But I mean yeah the lock nut at the bottom could have been better. Anyway these chinese forks don't break apart via lowers, they just... disassemble themselves mid trail. Check this Bolany fork out : ua-cam.com/video/-_LsJj9whTQ/v-deo.html (the stanchions detatch from the uppers, fork flexes rider crashes and fork just splits in half. Lol)
There is definitely a lack of understanding on how these lower end forks are designed to operate and a lot of misinformation in this video. I don’t understand the comparison to a high end oil bath fork that operates in an entirely different way and stating that as a design flaw. It’s certainly true that you get what you pay for, if you wanted a lower end fork to have all the features of a high end fork, with oil bath lowers and smooth operation like a high end Fox or Rockshox fork, then you would have to pay a lot more for it and it would no longer be a “cheap” or “budget” option. Saying it’s a design flaw that it doesn’t include foam rings, crush washers, or o-rings where they were not designed to be is a design flaw is just spreading misinformation. Maybe the forks had a manufacturing issue or problem out of the box but he also took them apart and added oil to them before ever using them due to a lack of understanding on how these forks were originally designed. Blaming the manufacture after the fact just doesn’t make sense.
Are they not intended to have grease instead of oil, like Suntour? Suntour also uses cartridge dampers, a similar plastic slide bushing on their XCT & XCM
The Suntours have oil in them. The oil is in a non serviceable cartridge, like this ztz has. Not sure if the replacements you can get for a Suntour will fit in a bargain brand. I suspect they probably would.
@@TonyHob so when you say oil in shocks you mean shocks and not forks? AFAIK every one of their fork uses grease for the lowers. Their site says you can use oil as a volume spacer in the air chamber. I had Epixon fork and liked it.
I wouldn't necessarily call them junk. Their application is relative to what they're designed for. These are designed to compete with heavy coil forks that are found on most budget bikes for riders NOT looking to hit jumps and get frequent airtime.
@Chrome Book Maybe I'm misunderstanding his description, but it seems that the single fine thread at the bottom is holding upper and lower parts of the fork together. I would call that a design flaw not a feature for any type use. Fork failure would lead to a bad accident at any speed.
@Chrome Book That's the problem with aliexpress. People who aren't mechanics or engineers rate products, people who have no clue see a product that has 5 stars, so it *must* be good. As a mechanic and engineer; these forks are a deathwish. That alu nut and the -likely- potmetal allen bolt aren't going to keep you safe. Same goes with the video of the guy impaled by his chinese carbon fullsus frame. The chainstays on that thing were way too thin to ever be safe; but they probably sold hundreds of these to customers who "thought they got a great deal on a great looking frame from a well rated supplier". The chinese aren't known for making great products unless there's western oversight. And even then the Chinese operate leaky reactors, for instance.
Little bit late but that holding mechanism is absolutely fine for the intended application. Those screws and the nut only need to be able to withstand the lowers extension force (Aka air chamber spring rate) which, as long as they are not cracked/bent should be able to do without breaking a sweat. It´s the fork crown and stanchions the ones that handle the big impact forces. The problem here is that either they missed a washer or their tolerances are so bad that by design the lock nut should make contact with the lowers, but in practice it did not. Long term use that hammering due to the parts play will damage and fatigue the aluminum nut which can cause a sudden failure. Add a correct size washer and should be good.
I have 2 LUTU Chinese forks on 2 different bikes, I abuse both of them way above what they should be. Never had an issue just disassemble and clean out built up dirt and change oil every now and then. It’s a simple design and it does in fact work
It a half the price of similar forks you can’t expect it to be just as good. Also it’s very clear that it’s not meant for dh and it probably wouldn’t have a problem riding cyc trails. Just because it’s not what you’re looking for doesn’t mean it a bad product only that you need to find the right one for you
As has been said - practically ALL fork brands have a similar setup holding the lowers on… Nut on the damper side, and bolt on the air shaft side… Also, there’s no O-ring in the ‘negative chamber’ on the air spring side cos it’s NOT a negative air spring, but a negative COIL spring…. THe only air sealing is on the +ve side.
I think the problem is more with machining tolerances and materials. The red aluminum nut on the right side is about the same as the black aluminum nut on a Fox 34, the bolt on the left side is the same as SR Suntour but uses a thin cheap washer unlike the Suntour's steel stepped washer. The difference in the lowers are cheaper materials and the tolerances are off so it all does not fit like it should and the parts also wear out faster.
Absolutely. I think you could buy spare parts from Suntour that fit on this fork. I can't believe that this dork poured suspension oil into a fork that is greased by design. No wonder he has oil all over the place now.
Come on those ZTZ forks are a copy of SunTour forks. Look like XCR forks inside. That white piece is the bushing. They are made like that for easy replacement when they wear out. The coil spring you see is the negative spring. The air spring is the positive spring above the coil. The lowers are not supposed to have oil in them. They are to be greased only. Total hack video. You can do better, or are you going for click bait.
Right. No oil or grease for the lowers. And a hard plastic sleeve that the stanchion goes through. Plus held together with two small bolts. You have fun with that.
@@EvansMTBSaga The 2 small bolts are the same like at XCR forks, they are very similar built. These forks (including the XCR) are essentially cross country forks, they are not recommendable for a harder treatment, for this purpose SR suntour offers better (and more expensive) forks.
@@EvansMTBSaga that's small nut and small bolt is meant to keep the lowers on. Ask around and find out how many lowers you've ever heard of coming off of an uppers. Everybody that service forks know that if there's no o-ring or seal that oil doesn't go in there. If there was no grease that's a production problem, and to do a true comparison take apart an xcr 32 suntour fork and see what that looks like inside. And let me ask you this was it leaking air I don't remember you ever saying it leaked air. How long have you had those forks you would know if it leaked air. You didn't even know that the coil springs were the negative springs on the fork. Come on. Total hack video. You usually do nice work, but this one is at below your standards.
6:.00 this is a brushing, Sr Suntour used system like this on their cheapest forks, it's easy to remove, you don't need a bushing tool. I don't know if their air forks have it, but all their cheap coil forks have, but this makes working on them very easy, as logn as you have the tool to remove those plastic caps. yes you need a specific too, absurd. you don't on those air forks. Some of the knock off/copycat forks like these air cartridges branded SR Suntour. the lowers are a copy of them, so those forks with sr suntour cartridges are probably something they bought cheap and used in their forks, and copied the dimensions of the Sr Suntour fork. seeing the plastic bushing is not a surprise, they copied SR Suntour.
except for the loose parts the construction isn't actually all that bad, in fact they're pretty similar to many suntour forks. the reason why you aren't seeing any o rings on the air shaft is because that's just the negative coil spring and it's not supposed to hold any air. there's actually a separate air piston inside the stanchion with it's oring and all. those white plastic pieces are actually the bushings too! also those damper cartridges are not serviceable but they're usually pretty reliable. if it wasn't for all the lose pieces here and there this would be just an average budget fork
And I've done two rebuilds on fox and rockshox forks on this channel and both have air shafts with multiple o rings. So enjoy your Chinese forks bud. Hope you have health insurance.
@@EvansMTBSaga that’s because they use a air negative spring, this is obviously using a mechanical negative spring. The stanchion tube, top cap, and piston seal off the actual air spring…
I'm sorry but you do not know what you are talking about that well. First off, the reason those do not have crush washers/dowty seals at the bottom of the lowers is because it's not an oil lubricated fork. Cheaper forks just use grease and you adding oil means it will just leak out. The nut for the damper side was the same size as on almost all other higher end forks, and the bolt on the air shaft side was the same as on all RockShox forks and many more. You said the damper was not threaded into the lowers, this is completely normally, the nut holds it. No high end fork has the damper threaded into the lowers. Higher end forks do have a better seal into the bottom of the lowers but that's because they are meant to hold oil. This one is not. Secondly, the negative spring being coil means it does not need a seal into the lowers. The negative spring just needs to have a platform to push against the positive air spring. That platform is what that threaded part at the bottom of the air spring stanchion side was. My old fork had a plastic threaded cup for the negative coil (some X-Fusion fork that came on my bike, actually was alright). Then you start complaining about the seals which look almost identical to all other forks; and that there are no foam rings below them. Again, this is because it is not an oil fork. Its just grease. Foam rings would just collect dirt as grinding paste and scratch the stanchions with no oil. Then you go and say the bushing for the stanchion in the lower is some plastic part that goes up and down and scratches it? No, that is doing the complete opposite and preventing damage to the stanchion and can be replaced when worn. Finally, you say the lowers might leak air when there should not be any pressurised air in the lowers at all. Its not an amazing fork, but you made it out to be a lot worse than it actually is. Your ignorance to the workings of a fork means you cannot really say much conclusively. And the fact you went and contacted the company with your little knowledge seemed a bit arrogant. They definitely know a lot more than you about how a fork works. No hate, just a LOT of misinformation.
i love the content that wolf and tick bring but old saag takes it even farther with a PSA. catastrophic failure can result in horrible crashes and it’s easy enough to crash with the best equipment. we don’t need extra help hurting ourselves. thanks for bringing this to light Evan.
Some of these issues you mentioned are standard across all forks. The bolts and nuts look good enough. The damper shaft is supposed to move freely. That white plastic sleeve is called a bushing and helps the stancions slide smoothly and straight in the lowers. I don’t see anything that you mentioned being dangerous
Would be awesome if there was a Micro Shift: Advent X equivalent in the suspension world. Even the decent Suntour stuff gets real expensive... Manitou and Marzocchi seem to be the same I'll stick with Fox and Rockshox
Shit microshift should consider making a fork. They're based in Taiwan and have access to factories. Plus everyone already trusts them. Gray market suntour epixon forks were around $175 a couple years ago, not a bad option.
Honestly, I don't think this guy knows how cheap forks work... They are manufactured to be budget friendly, not Fox 36 replicas... That is like saying that a budget bike is dangerous because it doesn't cost $4 000. So the criticism in this video is kinda unnecessary and all he needed to do was take the forks apart and show what is going on inside of them, not treat them like $1 000 forks.
Well he did a good Job here !! He showed how shitty these cheap Chinese forks are !! Forget about downhill I wouldn’t even trust these while on the road because they can just die any time !!
My suntour xcr air fork has worked well with 5000 miles ridden . I did service them one time (very easy ) do to blacken grease on the stanchions . They do have that disclaimer also saying no downhill and keep it on the mellow stuff but I have taken it on chunk ,small drops and jumps and black diamond type trails and surviving Moab no problem . It does use very little oil but I did grease it up with slick honey . Its possible these forks are similar . Now I do believe the slick honey grease is far superior to whatever they used fro grease as servicing time seemed to be far extended over the last with no degrade in performance
Solid video dude! One correction though, all mainstream forks: Rockshox, Fox, DVO, Ohlins etc. have the same design as this fork. Meaning there is only one bolt holding on the lowers to the crown, on each side. The damper isn't supposed to move that freely, but as soon as you break it loose, I can replicate that same movement on any Fox Factory fork. You're right on the crush washer part though, mainstream forks do have that unlike this ZTZ.
@@EvansMTBSaga Ahh, I see what you're saying. Yeah that's a fair point. Not sure how much the one O ring does to ensure the two parts staying connected. The bolt holds the majority of the "weight" together. Regardless, ZTZ doesn't seem like a viable option for suspension upgrades haha
@@EvansMTBSaga You think the O-ring makes the high end forks safe and this one ***NOT SAFE***? Modern forks don't have O-rings at the bottom, only a bolt and a crushwasher. The crushwasher is there only to seal it, it has nothing to do with rigidity of the attachment.
My premium suntour Aion fork is designed pretty much the same as this. I am impressed with the internals. I will not subscribe, you have not seen as much fork designs as you claim.
Some huge misstakes from your side! this fork is single chanber air spring, there is no need for o ring i negative side, there is a spring, oring is needed on top can and piston. from constaction all is fine there! second , both lower legs holds upper with just normal nuts for all other forks, my fox is no different 2x 10 mm aluminum nuts and that it! i dont see major problems here! just like all other forks! That plastic bit inside in lower is a bearing for upper to slid on, usaly it is metal with teflon, this was plasic so cheaper price, foam ring is not ment for dust, but to lube the upper part , so seals dont go so fast and keep lubed the sliders!
I was about to comment the same thing about the o-ring non-issue. I have the impression this person doesn't understand the difference between a suspension and a dampener. This is a cheap minimal purpose fork designed for basic commuting and shopping rides in the street. As the huge sticker indicates this is not designed to withstand DH or any form of acrobatic abuse. This video completely misses the point.
Nice video Evan! I would recommend keeping all fork/MTB parts, you'll never know when you'll need a fork O-ring or a jokey wheel bearing from a rear mech. Plus, most spare parts don't take up too much space!
Great video and breakdown. I've used various Chinese products before, chainring and cranks for example. But something as important as a fork, no way. Suntour epixon (gray market edition) does a great job for a low price. I wouldn't go below that or a rockshox recon. Or even better buy used and service it yourself. Some things just aren't worth cheaping out on.
That's exactly how all high end forks have their lower legs attached to the stanchions, one short bolt on each stanchion. That white plastic cylinder? That's a bushing, it's meant to slide in there. No oil came out when you took it apart because it's not an oil lubricated system. Almost all cheap forks use bushings and grease. That's why you don't have o-rings or crush washers at the bottom, because there's nothing that needs to be sealed inside.
@@holdenvtseries2274 They're very bad but not dangerous. It says it right there on the fork that's it's not intended for freeride or downhill, that's why you pay more money if you wanna take on rougher trails. Is a Nissan Micra bad and dangerous because it can't drive up a rocky mountain? No, it was never made to do that, that's why it's cheap. You want a Jeep for that. Same thing goes for budget forks and high-end forks.
I have 2 of those forks as well. One with a 15mm thru axle. I got it to upgrade a Trek Marlin and get rid of that 6lb pogo stick. I found that losing 2lbs was great but there was so much stiction in the fork it only seemed to work on bigger hits. I put a Suntour Epicon on my wifes bike and it was a ton smoother.SO I threw a Suntour AXON on the Trek and it is so much better at small bump compliance. Plus it was better everywhere else and just as light.AS you say, You get what you pay for. Great Vid Evan!!!!!!
Epixon looks like an intriguing fork, one day I'll get my hands on one. I think Chinese fork would work for a bike that only rides around the neighborhood. Thanks Double Nickle!
This just proved that Evan has only ridden with high end forks. Budget Suntour forks have always been like this and they have been known to take a beating.
I know high end parts are very expensive, but ultimately not as potentially expensive as low end ones… there are plenty of things you don’t want to skimp on if you want to ride anything beyond gravel trails/neighborhood streets.
I bought a Bucklos for my hard tail. Same Chinese fork as the ZTZ. One year in and it has held up fantastic. Big drops and regular riding. We’ll see how much life it has left.
@@mikejosh4588 Just got a Diamondback Atroz 2 that came with an SR Su your XCM 30. If I pay $1,400 for a bike then I definitely expect at least a rockshox recon. But I swapped it out for my Bucklos that’s well over a year old now and run it every day almost on local trails here in East Texas. Best purchase I’ve made yet!
Like many others have said, the construction of these forks looks pretty normal. I don’t see the issue with the nut, it appears to do exactly what it should do
@@EvansMTBSaga .. You mean when the nut is removed it pokes through? That’s what it’s meant to do… you’re simply compressing the damper shaft. Granted, it would normally be attached to the fork lower (via the nut) so as to damp the fork during use…but even if you took the damper shaft OUT of the fork, it would be able to be compressed/extended
these forks are not supposed to be filled with oil in the lowers cause they dont have seals for the oil to not leak out, I have tried this too putting oil in the lowers of my friends fork, when we have left upside down ones, after 5 mins then the oil started leaking, and then I serviced it and not put oil in the lowers but I have put grease in the dust wipers and it works fine. But this forks really have common issues like the over all build quality. love the vids man :)
Ok I’ve looked at the GoPro footage like 20 times and I can’t see any movement. Is it just me? So moving forwards, say the damper shaft is too long when bottoming out, sounds to me like they might have been assembling a damper for a longer travel fork into a shorter travel model, possible a QC issue in the assemble stage. The air spring sealing is strange, does feel like it would been an addition oring at the bottom stanchion if that’s where the additional air is being held. Everything else is pretty common and normal, I don’t understand the critique. An alloy M6(?) nut and bolt holding the holding the lower legs to the through shafts should be more than adequate assuming it’s a decent grade of material, that the similar mechanism to Rockshox and Marzocchi in my experience in form and sizing. Why would they add a crush washer to the lower legs when they were intended to be lubricated with greased and not oil. The plastic thingy in the spring leg is quite common in coil forks, it stops the spring rattling against the stanchion reducing any noise. I feel the Evan need more experience/exposure and understanding with suspension fork design and construction before such a harsh critique. Saying all that and assuming the issue was corrected would I buy them for technical trail riding, definitely not. Would they be suitable for a budget mountain that used casually for cruising around gravel paths, they’d probably be fine, they look way better than some of the crap from 20 years ago when I started out.
(1) that's a coil spring and air spring combo (2) lower end forks like sr suntor xcm don't use oil just SRAM butter (3) high-end forks use a sealed damper but you are right that one cant be fixed (4) the seals are pretty standard for a lower price fork to have no soft ring as they don't use oil in the lowers just grease that you put in the grove of the seal (5) the white thing is a bushing most forks have them (6) your partly right about the peace not being held well at the bottom but u don't need a crush washer if the fork doesn't use oil and then most forks are only really held in with 2 small bolts u have to hit with a hammer but to be fear if you haven't worked on to open up a fork like this as normal not really worth it unless it's super bad they could be ez mistakes to make and yes those forks would 1000% be unsafe to ride on a trail would 100% recommend sticking to name brands like sr suntore and rock shocks forks aren't a part to cheap out on as its what keeps you going were u want to I can imagine that the fork would have huge flex to it would be an interesting test to see how much force it takes to visible bend them/ flex
Maybe that sticker on the fork actually has some meaning. Who knows? I cringed at all the "issues" presented here. They just demonstrate this guy bought a cheap product designed for the calm street ride and was expecting it to outperform high end purpose built DH products.
My bucklos are still functioning well but I think I did bend the crown/steer tube when I cased a double. Its doing that thing where the headset gets tight when you turn the bars 90° or more. So no more jumping with those but I think they are still good for just riding. Mine have an air plunger below the air cap, curious why the ZTZ did not. Don't worry, nobody should be sponsored by China.
I have a similar fork i just put on the Bash, the only difference I can tell is it has a remote lockout. I'll let you, Wolftick, and everybody know how they are and what problems I have. Hopefully none, but we will see
I want to check that fork out. I have a tricked out old school 26er coming up on the channel and was scratching my head on what (new) fork I can get. How do you think a Recon Silver would stack up to a 2002 Sid? 😂😅
@@EvansMTBSaga I've used it on a 2001 Cannondale F500 that I rebuilt. The headshok is broken and obsolete so that was the only option was to go with the rockshox. I used the Manitou Markhor fork on another Cannondale it was great too but now impossible to find with a straight steerer and 26 with quick release.
@@EvansMTBSaga The problem for me with a Recon is the weight. Steel stanchions . RS quality yes, but really if youre playing in the field god with a better used fork or something for value orients like a Suntour Epixon/AXON. They are pretty smooth and small bump compliance is good. my 2cents :)
I installed a set of what they're calling KRSEC but they were delivered in a Bolany box and look identical to the ZTZ, bit of an identity crisis maybe. I'm just glad I'm only using them for comfort on my fat bike which had solid forks and not using them for use on some serious trails.
Believe it or not my damper blew and I completely stripped it out of the fork. The only thing holding the thing together is the bolt on the air side. Took it on some crazy shit;)
Hello Evans! Gotta comment on this video. So about a month ago I also bought ztz ultimate fork and I was pretty inspired when I rode it first 2-3 times. Then after that I tried it on jumps(I was riding dirt jumper) and after like half an hour of jumping I noticed alot of play in fork for some reason. After that i screwed in little damper down on fork lowers. After that I was riding 2 more hours and just when I wanted to go home my fork snapped inside. I heard something snapped inside and the fork was unusable after that. It was in one piece but couldn't work. Opened fork next day and a big surprise! Two big coils literally snapped in half... I hope you read this so you know how bat ztz forks actually are
same happen to me with some 160mm himalo forks they didnt return when being compressed so just to get them work i had to put 160psi for them to work and after i saw it was leaking air and took off the red bolt ( same 1 evan had on his) and putting it back on the threads on the damper snapped straight and i had to spend £200 on some new x fusion fork
Its pretty much the same story with all of the generic super budget air forks, some are alright, (they all obviously come out of the same factory) but they're really only for light use and usually okay but they dont have good quality control. Also they're built down to a price which definitely shows I've had my ztz the non rebound version for nearly a year with absolutely no issues
Totally agree. Quality control is a big problem with these. The design itself is copied from better forks so the design is not the problem. It’s the execution of the design (tolerances, materials, QC)
One thing I just refuse to go “cheap” on is a fork. Wheels, forks, frame....any break or failure and you could be in for a serious injury. I appreciate this video and your honesty. I see people running these parts on pretty advanced trails and it scares me to death. I used to work in emergency medicine and so many bad things run through my mind lol. I always recommend people to save up and buy from a reputable manufacturer such as Rockshox or manitou...not only is it going to be a much safer experience, but also you’re buying a product that you can service and get support for.
You haven't seen the insides of an SR Suntour for sure, which I believe that fork is based from. Check it out. They don't do oil bath and foam rings. They also have those plastic bushings. Also, the spring your talking about is not an air spring, clearly. Just a coil for a negative spring, which of course doesn't have to have any seal. It doesn't have anything to do with the seals at the top. Clearly you didn't take the piston out (which seals the air). They have o-rings btw. The cheap fastening at the bottom is bad but it rarely gets any stress, except when the rebound speed is too high and someone would keep topping the fork out. You did not answer the question on why it knocks. Answer: the damping cartridge body (not the shaft) is too long for a 26' and it's banging the bottom of the lower leg, rendering the bottom out damper useless.
Actually, not very honest and not well informed. I agree this is a cheap product that isn't designed to withstand severe abuse. And guess what it's actually explicitly posted on a huge sticker to make sure the customer is well aware of this. Let's review some of the issues presented here: * The red cap at the bottom is just a dust protection for the sliding rebound bar. It doesn't need to be tight. * Cheap nut and thread grazing against the aluminum case: This is not a moving part so there is no grazing. The moving part is inside the hollow thread. The nut is aluminum. So what. Did it unscrew on its own? Did it break? Not at all. So it did its job properly. * Missing oil: the dampener is a sealed non serviceable cartridge. All the oil needed is inside the cartridge. Adding oil in the fork tube outside the dampener is just throwing money through the window and dirtying the product. * Missing bottom o-ring on the coil side: this side is just the suspension coil. It doesn't need to be airtight. The o-ring at the top on the contrary is needed to avoid rain water getting in and rusting the coil. And actually an o-ring at the bottom would be bad because if any leakage happens at the top then the water would be trapped inside instead of being allowed to drop out. The only issue with this fork is that it is actually too safe for this guy's taste. It makes noises when it receives huge abuse, informing the user that it was not designed for that purpose. And that he should stop doing that before it breaks. This fork is for daily commuting and grocery shopping in the street with the occasional dirt path or uneven pavement here and there. And it does an excellent job at it for a very low price.
captains cog had his bucklos or bolany or whatever and as of right now his fork doesn't really have issues. also the U ding on kev centrals xr pro didn't leak oil even though it wasn't ridden for a year straight
Those plastic shims are to help lateral movement when braking since the dust seals arent strong enough to prevent movement. Those plastic shims actually start to scratch the stanchions if you leave the stanchions dirty. Oh yeah I've actually had the case where my lowers completely fell off and I got pretty beat up luckily it was just a curb drop😂
My wife got a brand new Recon RL on her Juliana budget bike and it was useless from ride 1. Massive play in fork out of box and rebound adjust didnt work at all. Worst part is the front wheel hub only works with these garbage forks so had to get new wheel too. Swapped it with a new takeoff Fox Rythm I had laying around and it actually works.
My ZTZ fat fork is holding up fine after an entire riding season. I take care of it and so far no problems. The dampening, rebound and lockout all work fine. NO PROBLEMS HERE.
There should be a piece in the Air side that slides up and down on the rod that has the negative spring on it and that part likes to fail even on Suntour forks like the Epixon, which have a similar layout! That part also has the O-Ring that holds the air.
Honesty over profit, Tremendous I subscribed, i got SR suntour air/hydraulic fork Ice riden thousands of miles probably 15,000 miles & still great thiughout 13 years
If you're going for a inexpensive fork, I recommend X-fusion, they cost a bit more, but compared to Rockshocks they are giving them away 😉 i got a RL32 12Omil, I have had it 3 or 4 years on a ebike and I just smash into stuff at a good pace, i never heard the thunk of them bottoming out, never leaks air and is incredibly smooth, I love it, it's just my opinion, but I think they are the best for the money 💰
So glad I watched this cuz I been looking at budget forks for my new Trek marlin 5 n saw the ztz forks. I think I'll go with rockshox Judy instead. You might have saved my life so thank you!
I’d still buy one of this, but I’ll double check everything before using it first obviously, and I’ll just buy whatever’s missing like the O ring, I think these are good and usable forks it’s just not assembled properly from the factory.
I agree. And after getting over my initial hesitation and actually taking a fork apart, it turned out it's actually doable for a regular mortal with basic tools and access to UA-cam.
@@EvansMTBSaga no that's def not normal lol. not denying the forks are terrible I was just saying that's how even top end forks are held together but obviously with much better design and materials.
My Bolany ZTZ fat fork works fine on my fat ebike, but I don't do downhill or gravel, just roads. The Bolany is SOOO much better than the OEM suspension fork my bike came with (a MOZO Fatman), and works quite well. The Bolany ZTZ is sold as a light duty fork, so that's how I use it. I do check it often for anything loose and it holds air just fine and the rebound adjustment works well enough. I suspect I'll get several years out of it, knock on wood.
I’d still buy one of this, but I’ll double check everything before using it first obviously, and I’ll just buy whatever’s missing like the O ring, I think these are good usable forks it’s just not assembled properly
Dude, the only thing holding the lowers in place on any fork is tiny screws and/or tiny nuts. Sure, the air and damper shafts normally have interference fit to the lowers and are pulled in place by the screws and knocked out with a mallet, but at the end of the day, it's still just two small screws in the bottom holding it all together.
The caps should have blue/medium strength thread locker on the threads, to keep them secure as logn as possible, even on a good fork they can get loose. They will get loose without thread locker. but that's one of the reasons the threads go far down. but I recommend regular inspections. the oil on the threads don't help, there should only be suspension grease at the O-ring. Keep in mind that suspension centres or mechanics won't always do this, some might, but any decent fork is assembled this way from the factory, Once my forks caps got loose I removed air and unthreaded them and added Loctite 243 and suspension grease. this kept them secure for longer. The oil on the threads at the ZTZ fork's cap definitely would aid in it getting loose.
I've got 2 Fox 36 knockoffs for experimenting. Installed bushings, swapped damper and all air components for original fox components, but even like that they don't work as expected since theres no compensation port (no negative chamber) . Still I did a lot of enduro with them, until one of the lower legs started to crack and separate at the bridge. Definitely not recommended. Not safe 🚫🚫🚫
You could upgrade the lower nuts and bolts to stainless steel, adding a crush washer in the process. Plus you could also buy spare bushings and seals, spu you could have a more reliable fork. Although, I've seen these forks in free ride fail, getting the fork tube detached or setting it loose, loosing the steering control. Still, these forks aren't designed for a free ride, so use it for casual XC riding
That doesn't mean that you aren't doing good for a small channel. Evan puts a lot of time into his videos and he is his own toughest critic. Keep making videos and try to keep improving.👍
Ok comment on the plastic thing at 6:08. Its a plastic bushing. Typically there is metal bushings that rely on oil bath to keep em running. These are not so. Which is why they don’t move that great or had any oil prior.
Evans PLEASE TRY A HIMALO 36 (36mm stanchions!). They are Downhill rated but arrive empty of oil. You can get them in 140,160 and 180mm! Steel bushings, fully rebuildable has foam under seal and grease zeutz. We definitively want to see how they compare to big boys. They are Taiwan made not china. Please oil them and try them!
The bushings are already what you will find on sr suntour basic forks,it doesn't damage stanchion as long it is lubed, but when crap gets inside it's too late for the fork lol
All of the China forks are built almost the same with miner changes. All have the oil strut and some even have an air cartridge instead of an air spring. I would rather run a used for before one of those death traps.
I don’t think the ZTZ is a good product but why did you add oil to a fork not designed for fork oil in the lowers? Many of the SR Suntour forks are designed to just have grease lubricating the lower fork seals and bushings and also do not have crush washers or o-rings on the bolts/nuts holding the lower together. This is also why they do not have foam rings because they use grease instead of fork oil to lubricate the stanchion.
Right when I installed the fork, it sounded horrible (you can hear it in Wolfticks video). And it wasn't the damper. So for safety I wanted to add something to lubricate it, there was no grease either
@@EvansMTBSaga if it's flush you will see it's flat, but I just thought it might be as it slipped so easily, but that might just have been cus you did not hold it down with your hand as you should. to keep the tool more stable, if you only wrench on it it's not secure enough. Yes Park Tool now offers flush sockets, I think that arrived last year.
Suntour use the same slider sleeves between the upper tubes and bottom. If the ZTZ replaced a much more expensive fork then I imagine it would quite commonly need some work done to fix problems. If the price difference is high enough most backyard mechanics would be happy enough to do the extra work just to save big $$$$$$s. And remember when Hyundai was crap and Ford was the benchmark? Now it's vice versa.
Jared NEVER uses off-brand parts even for small stuff like grips and pedals it seems like. Jared isn't a bike snob but when he worked at a bike shop he told people to not buy most off-brand parts. but kevcentral and wolftick proved some off-brand parts can take abuse
These forks will always have rich little snobs commenting about them, because they are unbelievably cheap but mine on my E - bike have been on there for three years now and they are absolutely fine, all I’ve replaced is the Stantion wiper seals two or three times ( which is a perishable item) I’ve had them apart about six times, but they still work like out of the box ! If you respect and look after things they will last you, if you abuse them, they could leave you in the lurch, yes they are not Rockshox or Fox, but Rockshox or Fox cost about Ten times as much and I’ve got five hobbies and I’m not putting all my money into one hobby !
I have heard that the lowers on the ZTZ and a bunch of cheap ass forks are plastic WTF is that true? If so that is how they can keep the price down. Thanks so much for tearing them down and calling them out. And don't forget you get what you pay for.
these forks are basically suntour xct and xcm type of forks, they dont use oil dude. and these forks are for xc or trail spec rides, not for hardcore downhill riding. if
I just covered the lowers in red tack grease. The had just a bit of blue grease in the lower lags one of mine dust seals came off during a ride. But anyway I don’t think there met to hold oil.
Yeah they're not meant to hold oil and you're not supposed to add oil in there as this guy suggests. It uses that white plastic cylinder as a bushing and it's supposed to be greased occasionally, no oil.
Those "Anti-bike" delivery drivers, you just can't trust them.....they have all that free time to open packages, loosen bolts/retainers, drain out the oil, and then repackage before delivering. Just proves you get get what you pay for.....not that more expensive parts don't have quality issues themselves
All people criticizing Evan clearly dont understand that these problems can cause really fatal outcomes... Also the person saying you dont understand anything about 'budget friendly' forks doesnt understand that budhet friendly means that the product may break anytime.
Thanks for pulling these forks apart and going into detail about the major flaws. If your looking to sell a few bikes let me know if your selling the Mongoose PT26.
I've had a set of Bolany forks. Before that it was some other brand, but the air seal began to leak on that other one after a couple years. The trouble with these is if any parts fail there's no company to contact for replacement parts and they're literally designed on the inside out as a proprietary system. That means there isn't a part that can be swapped for the same part of another brand. You mostly get a product that works if you treat it like an XC fork ,_as per it's intented use_, but without that resource they're a 100% throwaway part.
I know this is an old comment but these forks can be serviced sinced I serviced one that is leaking too every part can be dismantled including the air chamber, the only disposable part is the lockout chamber which is crimped from factory.
@@Benri05 the LO cartridge is based on the Suntour system - they were the ones that bright it to the MTB market - but without the serial number those parts can't be traced to any particular fork. So with the old ones I had, I spent weeks looking for an equivalent Suntour part and could not find an exact match as Suntour changes the cartridge specs every three months for every fork they have over the past decade. In my ones, the inside 🦭 was worn, and nothing from any larger brand matched what I had after months of searching. I love them and would ride and recommend them if there parts available, but without that serviceability in n industry that still has serviceability, they are junk.
@@stephenbarradell4043 but they are also longer travel than the 80-100mm standard SR XCT and cost 700 or so more. this video and my comment was about the budeget forks, not the premium forks.
4:00 that part is the negative spring, and does no sealing. That is the job of the plunger you left inside the stanchion 🤦. Also the air shaft holds the lowers on as well. The part at 6:02 is a plastic slider bushing, just like in Suntour XCR and lower forks.
lol, i figured he was missing something
Agree. But I mean yeah the lock nut at the bottom could have been better. Anyway these chinese forks don't break apart via lowers, they just... disassemble themselves mid trail. Check this Bolany fork out : ua-cam.com/video/-_LsJj9whTQ/v-deo.html (the stanchions detatch from the uppers, fork flexes rider crashes and fork just splits in half. Lol)
@@AORNova yeah it’s true the lock nut was pretty bad
There is definitely a lack of understanding on how these lower end forks are designed to operate and a lot of misinformation in this video. I don’t understand the comparison to a high end oil bath fork that operates in an entirely different way and stating that as a design flaw.
It’s certainly true that you get what you pay for, if you wanted a lower end fork to have all the features of a high end fork, with oil bath lowers and smooth operation like a high end Fox or Rockshox fork, then you would have to pay a lot more for it and it would no longer be a “cheap” or “budget” option. Saying it’s a design flaw that it doesn’t include foam rings, crush washers, or o-rings where they were not designed to be is a design flaw is just spreading misinformation.
Maybe the forks had a manufacturing issue or problem out of the box but he also took them apart and added oil to them before ever using them due to a lack of understanding on how these forks were originally designed. Blaming the manufacture after the fact just doesn’t make sense.
@@AORNova i've seen a video where the steerer separated just like that. Avoid even tho Evan lost some credibility because of that video for me...
Are they not intended to have grease instead of oil, like Suntour? Suntour also uses cartridge dampers, a similar plastic slide bushing on their XCT & XCM
That's what another guy said. Although there was 0 grease or oil in the lowers
Wait, so do the XCM forks have oil in them?
The Suntours have oil in them. The oil is in a non serviceable cartridge, like this ztz has. Not sure if the replacements you can get for a Suntour will fit in a bargain brand. I suspect they probably would.
@@The_RC_Dude the normal lubrication on all Suntour is grease
@@TonyHob so when you say oil in shocks you mean shocks and not forks? AFAIK every one of their fork uses grease for the lowers. Their site says you can use oil as a volume spacer in the air chamber. I had Epixon fork and liked it.
I wouldn't necessarily call them junk. Their application is relative to what they're designed for. These are designed to compete with heavy coil forks that are found on most budget bikes for riders NOT looking to hit jumps and get frequent airtime.
It's garbage design/build.
@Chrome Book Maybe I'm misunderstanding his description, but it seems that the single fine thread at the bottom is holding upper and lower parts of the fork together.
I would call that a design flaw not a feature for any type use. Fork failure would lead to a bad accident at any speed.
@Chrome Book It works, until it doesn't. Don't use one if you would like to keep your teeth where they are.
@Chrome Book yeah. difference is that name brand forks have warranty and service manuals, plus they don't have major flaws like this to start with.
@Chrome Book That's the problem with aliexpress. People who aren't mechanics or engineers rate products, people who have no clue see a product that has 5 stars, so it *must* be good. As a mechanic and engineer; these forks are a deathwish. That alu nut and the -likely- potmetal allen bolt aren't going to keep you safe. Same goes with the video of the guy impaled by his chinese carbon fullsus frame. The chainstays on that thing were way too thin to ever be safe; but they probably sold hundreds of these to customers who "thought they got a great deal on a great looking frame from a well rated supplier". The chinese aren't known for making great products unless there's western oversight. And even then the Chinese operate leaky reactors, for instance.
Little bit late but that holding mechanism is absolutely fine for the intended application. Those screws and the nut only need to be able to withstand the lowers extension force (Aka air chamber spring rate) which, as long as they are not cracked/bent should be able to do without breaking a sweat. It´s the fork crown and stanchions the ones that handle the big impact forces.
The problem here is that either they missed a washer or their tolerances are so bad that by design the lock nut should make contact with the lowers, but in practice it did not. Long term use that hammering due to the parts play will damage and fatigue the aluminum nut which can cause a sudden failure. Add a correct size washer and should be good.
I have 2 LUTU Chinese forks on 2 different bikes, I abuse both of them way above what they should be. Never had an issue just disassemble and clean out built up dirt and change oil every now and then. It’s a simple design and it does in fact work
It a half the price of similar forks you can’t expect it to be just as good. Also it’s very clear that it’s not meant for dh and it probably wouldn’t have a problem riding cyc trails. Just because it’s not what you’re looking for doesn’t mean it a bad product only that you need to find the right one for you
No it's bad and unsafe
As has been said - practically ALL fork brands have a similar setup holding the lowers on… Nut on the damper side, and bolt on the air shaft side…
Also, there’s no O-ring in the ‘negative chamber’ on the air spring side cos it’s NOT a negative air spring, but a negative COIL spring…. THe only air sealing is on the +ve side.
I think the problem is more with machining tolerances and materials. The red aluminum nut on the right side is about the same as the black aluminum nut on a Fox 34, the bolt on the left side is the same as SR Suntour but uses a thin cheap washer unlike the Suntour's steel stepped washer. The difference in the lowers are cheaper materials and the tolerances are off so it all does not fit like it should and the parts also wear out faster.
Absolutely. I think you could buy spare parts from Suntour that fit on this fork. I can't believe that this dork poured suspension oil into a fork that is greased by design. No wonder he has oil all over the place now.
I also think it has to do with expectations. He’s expecting a bit too much out a fork that costs pretty much nothing, relativrly
Come on those ZTZ forks are a copy of SunTour forks. Look like XCR forks inside. That white piece is the bushing. They are made like that for easy replacement when they wear out. The coil spring you see is the negative spring. The air spring is the positive spring above the coil. The lowers are not supposed to have oil in them. They are to be greased only. Total hack video. You can do better, or are you going for click bait.
Right. No oil or grease for the lowers. And a hard plastic sleeve that the stanchion goes through. Plus held together with two small bolts. You have fun with that.
I thought the same, they are quite similar to XCR forks inside.
@@EvansMTBSaga The 2 small bolts are the same like at XCR forks, they are very similar built.
These forks (including the XCR) are essentially cross country forks, they are not recommendable for a harder treatment, for this purpose SR suntour offers better (and more expensive) forks.
@@EvansMTBSaga that's small nut and small bolt is meant to keep the lowers on. Ask around and find out how many lowers you've ever heard of coming off of an uppers. Everybody that service forks know that if there's no o-ring or seal that oil doesn't go in there. If there was no grease that's a production problem, and to do a true comparison take apart an xcr 32 suntour fork and see what that looks like inside. And let me ask you this was it leaking air I don't remember you ever saying it leaked air. How long have you had those forks you would know if it leaked air. You didn't even know that the coil springs were the negative springs on the fork. Come on. Total hack video. You usually do nice work, but this one is at below your standards.
6:.00 this is a brushing, Sr Suntour used system like this on their cheapest forks, it's easy to remove, you don't need a bushing tool. I don't know if their air forks have it, but all their cheap coil forks have, but this makes working on them very easy, as logn as you have the tool to remove those plastic caps. yes you need a specific too, absurd. you don't on those air forks.
Some of the knock off/copycat forks like these air cartridges branded SR Suntour. the lowers are a copy of them, so those forks with sr suntour cartridges are probably something they bought cheap and used in their forks, and copied the dimensions of the Sr Suntour fork. seeing the plastic bushing is not a surprise, they copied SR Suntour.
"fork can't leak if it doesn't have oil"
Hilarious updated design fix 😂😜
except for the loose parts the construction isn't actually all that bad, in fact they're pretty similar to many suntour forks. the reason why you aren't seeing any o rings on the air shaft is because that's just the negative coil spring and it's not supposed to hold any air. there's actually a separate air piston inside the stanchion with it's oring and all.
those white plastic pieces are actually the bushings too!
also those damper cartridges are not serviceable but they're usually pretty reliable. if it wasn't for all the lose pieces here and there this would be just an average budget fork
when you started looking for o' rings on the lower thread of the air shaft I knew you had no clue about air forks.
Oh okay well I'll wait for your video explaining how air forks work
And I've done two rebuilds on fox and rockshox forks on this channel and both have air shafts with multiple o rings. So enjoy your Chinese forks bud. Hope you have health insurance.
@@EvansMTBSaga He's gonna need dental insurance, more likely.
@@EvansMTBSaga that’s because they use a air negative spring, this is obviously using a mechanical negative spring. The stanchion tube, top cap, and piston seal off the actual air spring…
@@EvansMTBSaga we'll se who will watch it
Alternative title: The Cost of Cheap Parts
Great video!
Hey why did you quit uploading man I love your videos. You also inspired Evan on his UA-cam journey. I miss you and mtb savant
Thank you! You've had some bold videos and definitely inspired me to follow suit. Thanks for the props!
@Chrome Book Hey, man. You feeling ok? Family doing good? You seem down.
I'm sorry but you do not know what you are talking about that well.
First off, the reason those do not have crush washers/dowty seals at the bottom of the lowers is because it's not an oil lubricated fork. Cheaper forks just use grease and you adding oil means it will just leak out. The nut for the damper side was the same size as on almost all other higher end forks, and the bolt on the air shaft side was the same as on all RockShox forks and many more. You said the damper was not threaded into the lowers, this is completely normally, the nut holds it. No high end fork has the damper threaded into the lowers. Higher end forks do have a better seal into the bottom of the lowers but that's because they are meant to hold oil. This one is not.
Secondly, the negative spring being coil means it does not need a seal into the lowers. The negative spring just needs to have a platform to push against the positive air spring. That platform is what that threaded part at the bottom of the air spring stanchion side was. My old fork had a plastic threaded cup for the negative coil (some X-Fusion fork that came on my bike, actually was alright).
Then you start complaining about the seals which look almost identical to all other forks; and that there are no foam rings below them. Again, this is because it is not an oil fork. Its just grease. Foam rings would just collect dirt as grinding paste and scratch the stanchions with no oil.
Then you go and say the bushing for the stanchion in the lower is some plastic part that goes up and down and scratches it? No, that is doing the complete opposite and preventing damage to the stanchion and can be replaced when worn.
Finally, you say the lowers might leak air when there should not be any pressurised air in the lowers at all.
Its not an amazing fork, but you made it out to be a lot worse than it actually is. Your ignorance to the workings of a fork means you cannot really say much conclusively. And the fact you went and contacted the company with your little knowledge seemed a bit arrogant. They definitely know a lot more than you about how a fork works.
No hate, just a LOT of misinformation.
i love the content that wolf and tick bring but old saag takes it even farther with a PSA. catastrophic failure can result in horrible crashes and it’s easy enough to crash with the best equipment. we don’t need extra help hurting ourselves. thanks for bringing this to light Evan.
I always thought your profile was Elon musk. But it's not sadly
Thanks Evan! ✌🤟👍
Some of these issues you mentioned are standard across all forks. The bolts and nuts look good enough. The damper shaft is supposed to move freely. That white plastic sleeve is called a bushing and helps the stancions slide smoothly and straight in the lowers. I don’t see anything that you mentioned being dangerous
It didn't show that great in the video, but the damper shaft pokes through the bottom of the fork when compressed. That nut is only a limit screw
@@EvansMTBSaga there’s a similar nut on every single Fox fork
Would be awesome if there was a Micro Shift: Advent X equivalent in the suspension world. Even the decent Suntour stuff gets real expensive... Manitou and Marzocchi seem to be the same
I'll stick with Fox and Rockshox
Shit microshift should consider making a fork. They're based in Taiwan and have access to factories. Plus everyone already trusts them. Gray market suntour epixon forks were around $175 a couple years ago, not a bad option.
@John Brown yeah, I guess that's true
@@theshonen8899 legit
You mean xfusion?
@@user-eu6hr8tp1e hmmm. Tell me more
Definitely a quality control issue, thanks for being straight forward and telling us how it really is!
Honestly, I don't think this guy knows how cheap forks work... They are manufactured to be budget friendly, not Fox 36 replicas... That is like saying that a budget bike is dangerous because it doesn't cost $4 000. So the criticism in this video is kinda unnecessary and all he needed to do was take the forks apart and show what is going on inside of them, not treat them like $1 000 forks.
I've taken apart new Manitou Markhor forks ($200) and old Manitou Splice forks, and neither are even close to these forks.
Guy has to get his clickbait clicks
@@TheDustAutumn Sounds like you're the perfect customer for the Chinese forks.
@@EvansMTBSaga sounds like you actually know jackshit about bike parts.
Well he did a good Job here !! He showed how shitty these cheap Chinese forks are !! Forget about downhill I wouldn’t even trust these while on the road because they can just die any time !!
My suntour xcr air fork has worked well with 5000 miles ridden . I did service them one time (very easy ) do to blacken grease on the stanchions . They do have that disclaimer also saying no downhill and keep it on the mellow stuff but I have taken it on chunk ,small drops and jumps and black diamond type trails and surviving Moab no problem . It does use very little oil but I did grease it up with slick honey . Its possible these forks are similar . Now I do believe the slick honey grease is far superior to whatever they used fro grease as servicing time seemed to be far extended over the last with no degrade in performance
Solid video dude! One correction though, all mainstream forks: Rockshox, Fox, DVO, Ohlins etc. have the same design as this fork. Meaning there is only one bolt holding on the lowers to the crown, on each side. The damper isn't supposed to move that freely, but as soon as you break it loose, I can replicate that same movement on any Fox Factory fork. You're right on the crush washer part though, mainstream forks do have that unlike this ZTZ.
The two mainstream forks I have have o rings at the end of the shaft that plug into the lower, then a bolt with a crush washer on top of that
@@EvansMTBSaga Ahh, I see what you're saying. Yeah that's a fair point. Not sure how much the one O ring does to ensure the two parts staying connected. The bolt holds the majority of the "weight" together.
Regardless, ZTZ doesn't seem like a viable option for suspension upgrades haha
@@EvansMTBSaga You think the O-ring makes the high end forks safe and this one ***NOT SAFE***? Modern forks don't have O-rings at the bottom, only a bolt and a crushwasher. The crushwasher is there only to seal it, it has nothing to do with rigidity of the attachment.
My Fox 40 has the same damping shaft and retention nut setup. pretty standard.
My premium suntour Aion fork is designed pretty much the same as this. I am impressed with the internals. I will not subscribe, you have not seen as much fork designs as you claim.
Some huge misstakes from your side! this fork is single chanber air spring, there is no need for o ring i negative side, there is a spring, oring is needed on top can and piston. from constaction all is fine there! second , both lower legs holds upper with just normal nuts for all other forks, my fox is no different 2x 10 mm aluminum nuts and that it! i dont see major problems here! just like all other forks!
That plastic bit inside in lower is a bearing for upper to slid on, usaly it is metal with teflon, this was plasic so cheaper price, foam ring is not ment for dust, but to lube the upper part , so seals dont go so fast and keep lubed the sliders!
I was about to comment the same thing about the o-ring non-issue. I have the impression this person doesn't understand the difference between a suspension and a dampener.
This is a cheap minimal purpose fork designed for basic commuting and shopping rides in the street. As the huge sticker indicates this is not designed to withstand DH or any form of acrobatic abuse.
This video completely misses the point.
Nice video Evan! I would recommend keeping all fork/MTB parts, you'll never know when you'll need a fork O-ring or a jokey wheel bearing from a rear mech. Plus, most spare parts don't take up too much space!
I saved some parts like the air caps that had the O-rings. The cartridge dampers went bye bye though haha.
Good to see my fav channels linking up for video intro
Great video and breakdown. I've used various Chinese products before, chainring and cranks for example. But something as important as a fork, no way. Suntour epixon (gray market edition) does a great job for a low price. I wouldn't go below that or a rockshox recon. Or even better buy used and service it yourself. Some things just aren't worth cheaping out on.
That's exactly how all high end forks have their lower legs attached to the stanchions, one short bolt on each stanchion. That white plastic cylinder? That's a bushing, it's meant to slide in there. No oil came out when you took it apart because it's not an oil lubricated system. Almost all cheap forks use bushings and grease. That's why you don't have o-rings or crush washers at the bottom, because there's nothing that needs to be sealed inside.
@@holdenvtseries2274 They're very bad but not dangerous. It says it right there on the fork that's it's not intended for freeride or downhill, that's why you pay more money if you wanna take on rougher trails. Is a Nissan Micra bad and dangerous because it can't drive up a rocky mountain? No, it was never made to do that, that's why it's cheap. You want a Jeep for that. Same thing goes for budget forks and high-end forks.
I have 2 of those forks as well. One with a 15mm thru axle. I got it to upgrade a Trek Marlin and get rid of that 6lb pogo stick. I found that losing 2lbs was great but there was so much stiction in the fork it only seemed to work on bigger hits. I put a Suntour Epicon on my wifes bike and it was a ton smoother.SO I threw a Suntour AXON on the Trek and it is so much better at small bump compliance. Plus it was better everywhere else and just as light.AS you say, You get what you pay for. Great Vid Evan!!!!!!
Epixon looks like an intriguing fork, one day I'll get my hands on one. I think Chinese fork would work for a bike that only rides around the neighborhood. Thanks Double Nickle!
This just proved that Evan has only ridden with high end forks. Budget Suntour forks have always been like this and they have been known to take a beating.
I know high end parts are very expensive, but ultimately not as potentially expensive as low end ones… there are plenty of things you don’t want to skimp on if you want to ride anything beyond gravel trails/neighborhood streets.
Good for you man.. brutally honest!
I bought a Bucklos for my hard tail. Same Chinese fork as the ZTZ. One year in and it has held up fantastic. Big drops and regular riding. We’ll see how much life it has left.
It's life is probably linked to your life :p
Still holding up?
@@mikejosh4588 Still running strong as ever.
@@Legendd12 Got mine and I am so impressed with it for the price. Really good fork by any standard.
@@mikejosh4588 Just got a Diamondback Atroz 2 that came with an SR Su your XCM 30. If I pay $1,400 for a bike then I definitely expect at least a rockshox recon. But I swapped it out for my Bucklos that’s well over a year old now and run it every day almost on local trails here in East Texas. Best purchase I’ve made yet!
Like many others have said, the construction of these forks looks pretty normal. I don’t see the issue with the nut, it appears to do exactly what it should do
The damper shaft pokes through the lowers when compressed....
@@EvansMTBSaga are you referring to the shaft the rebound knob attaches to or the threaded section the nut goes on?
@@EvansMTBSaga .. You mean when the nut is removed it pokes through? That’s what it’s meant to do… you’re simply compressing the damper shaft. Granted, it would normally be attached to the fork lower (via the nut) so as to damp the fork during use…but even if you took the damper shaft OUT of the fork, it would be able to be compressed/extended
these forks are not supposed to be filled with oil in the lowers cause they dont have seals for the oil to not leak out, I have tried this too putting oil in the lowers of my friends fork, when we have left upside down ones, after 5 mins then the oil started leaking, and then I serviced it and not put oil in the lowers but I have put grease in the dust wipers and it works fine. But this forks really have common issues like the over all build quality.
love the vids man :)
Ok I’ve looked at the GoPro footage like 20 times and I can’t see any movement. Is it just me?
So moving forwards, say the damper shaft is too long when bottoming out, sounds to me like they might have been assembling a damper for a longer travel fork into a shorter travel model, possible a QC issue in the assemble stage.
The air spring sealing is strange, does feel like it would been an addition oring at the bottom stanchion if that’s where the additional air is being held.
Everything else is pretty common and normal, I don’t understand the critique. An alloy M6(?) nut and bolt holding the holding the lower legs to the through shafts should be more than adequate assuming it’s a decent grade of material, that the similar mechanism to Rockshox and Marzocchi in my experience in form and sizing. Why would they add a crush washer to the lower legs when they were intended to be lubricated with greased and not oil. The plastic thingy in the spring leg is quite common in coil forks, it stops the spring rattling against the stanchion reducing any noise.
I feel the Evan need more experience/exposure and understanding with suspension fork design and construction before such a harsh critique.
Saying all that and assuming the issue was corrected would I buy them for technical trail riding, definitely not. Would they be suitable for a budget mountain that used casually for cruising around gravel paths, they’d probably be fine, they look way better than some of the crap from 20 years ago when I started out.
You can't polish a turd. But you CAN roll it in glitter! just add some cool stickers!
(1) that's a coil spring and air spring combo
(2) lower end forks like sr suntor xcm don't use oil just SRAM butter
(3) high-end forks use a sealed damper but you are right that one cant be fixed
(4) the seals are pretty standard for a lower price fork to have no soft ring as they don't use oil in the lowers just grease that you put in the grove of the seal
(5) the white thing is a bushing most forks have them
(6) your partly right about the peace not being held well at the bottom but u don't need a crush washer if the fork doesn't use oil and then most forks are only really held in with 2 small bolts u have to hit with a hammer
but to be fear if you haven't worked on to open up a fork like this as normal not really worth it unless it's super bad they could be ez mistakes to make and yes those forks would 1000% be unsafe to ride on a trail would 100% recommend sticking to name brands like sr suntore and rock shocks forks aren't a part to cheap out on as its what keeps you going were u want to I can imagine that the fork would have huge flex to it would be an interesting test to see how much force it takes to visible bend them/ flex
Maybe that sticker on the fork actually has some meaning. Who knows?
I cringed at all the "issues" presented here. They just demonstrate this guy bought a cheap product designed for the calm street ride and was expecting it to outperform high end purpose built DH products.
My bucklos are still functioning well but I think I did bend the crown/steer tube when I cased a double. Its doing that thing where the headset gets tight when you turn the bars 90° or more. So no more jumping with those but I think they are still good for just riding. Mine have an air plunger below the air cap, curious why the ZTZ did not. Don't worry, nobody should be sponsored by China.
Well get the suntour axon it's a 140 mm with a tru axle good fork with fat stanchions
Also there is a epixon variant with 140 mm with teu axle
@@eugene44569 first the delta variant and now the epixon variant?!?! When Will it end?
You are a honest guy. Thank you for sharing this with the Saga squad...
👌great tutorial, It would be interesting to see how easy it would be to service the suntour XCR32, that came stock on the nucleus🤔
I have a similar fork i just put on the Bash, the only difference I can tell is it has a remote lockout. I'll let you, Wolftick, and everybody know how they are and what problems I have. Hopefully none, but we will see
Has it held up?
Just buy the Rockshox Recon Silver. It's a straight steerer with rim and disc mounts for old school 26ers.
I want to check that fork out. I have a tricked out old school 26er coming up on the channel and was scratching my head on what (new) fork I can get. How do you think a Recon Silver would stack up to a 2002 Sid? 😂😅
@@EvansMTBSaga I've used it on a 2001 Cannondale F500 that I rebuilt. The headshok is broken and obsolete so that was the only option was to go with the rockshox. I used the Manitou Markhor fork on another Cannondale it was great too but now impossible to find with a straight steerer and 26 with quick release.
@@EvansMTBSaga better than nothing. That recon silver is pretty well made.
Or RS TK30 Silver
@@EvansMTBSaga The problem for me with a Recon is the weight. Steel stanchions . RS quality yes, but really if youre playing in the field god with a better used fork or something for value orients like a Suntour Epixon/AXON. They are pretty smooth and small bump compliance is good. my 2cents :)
I installed a set of what they're calling KRSEC but they were delivered in a Bolany box and look identical to the ZTZ, bit of an identity crisis maybe.
I'm just glad I'm only using them for comfort on my fat bike which had solid forks and not using them for use on some serious trails.
Believe it or not my damper blew and I completely stripped it out of the fork. The only thing holding the thing together is the bolt on the air side. Took it on some crazy shit;)
Hello Evans! Gotta comment on this video. So about a month ago I also bought ztz ultimate fork and I was pretty inspired when I rode it first 2-3 times. Then after that I tried it on jumps(I was riding dirt jumper) and after like half an hour of jumping I noticed alot of play in fork for some reason. After that i screwed in little damper down on fork lowers. After that I was riding 2 more hours and just when I wanted to go home my fork snapped inside. I heard something snapped inside and the fork was unusable after that. It was in one piece but couldn't work. Opened fork next day and a big surprise! Two big coils literally snapped in half... I hope you read this so you know how bat ztz forks actually are
same happen to me with some 160mm himalo forks they didnt return when being compressed so just to get them work i had to put 160psi for them to work and after i saw it was leaking air and took off the red bolt ( same 1 evan had on his) and putting it back on the threads on the damper snapped straight and i had to spend £200 on some new x fusion fork
Its pretty much the same story with all of the generic super budget air forks, some are alright, (they all obviously come out of the same factory) but they're really only for light use and usually okay but they dont have good quality control.
Also they're built down to a price which definitely shows
I've had my ztz the non rebound version for nearly a year with absolutely no issues
Totally agree. Quality control is a big problem with these. The design itself is copied from better forks so the design is not the problem. It’s the execution of the design (tolerances, materials, QC)
U are wrong they are supposed to be like that do your research before making a vidieo
@@stuartlappin5753 lmao
One thing I just refuse to go “cheap” on is a fork. Wheels, forks, frame....any break or failure and you could be in for a serious injury. I appreciate this video and your honesty. I see people running these parts on pretty advanced trails and it scares me to death. I used to work in emergency medicine and so many bad things run through my mind lol. I always recommend people to save up and buy from a reputable manufacturer such as Rockshox or manitou...not only is it going to be a much safer experience, but also you’re buying a product that you can service and get support for.
You haven't seen the insides of an SR Suntour for sure, which I believe that fork is based from. Check it out. They don't do oil bath and foam rings. They also have those plastic bushings. Also, the spring your talking about is not an air spring, clearly. Just a coil for a negative spring, which of course doesn't have to have any seal. It doesn't have anything to do with the seals at the top. Clearly you didn't take the piston out (which seals the air). They have o-rings btw. The cheap fastening at the bottom is bad but it rarely gets any stress, except when the rebound speed is too high and someone would keep topping the fork out.
You did not answer the question on why it knocks.
Answer: the damping cartridge body (not the shaft) is too long for a 26' and it's banging the bottom of the lower leg, rendering the bottom out damper useless.
I made a short showing the knock. Check it out
thank you for being honest, like honesty is a good policy and kindness and consideration will bounce back at you. meanwhile lying does the opposite
Actually, not very honest and not well informed.
I agree this is a cheap product that isn't designed to withstand severe abuse. And guess what it's actually explicitly posted on a huge sticker to make sure the customer is well aware of this.
Let's review some of the issues presented here:
* The red cap at the bottom is just a dust protection for the sliding rebound bar. It doesn't need to be tight.
* Cheap nut and thread grazing against the aluminum case: This is not a moving part so there is no grazing. The moving part is inside the hollow thread. The nut is aluminum. So what. Did it unscrew on its own? Did it break? Not at all. So it did its job properly.
* Missing oil: the dampener is a sealed non serviceable cartridge. All the oil needed is inside the cartridge. Adding oil in the fork tube outside the dampener is just throwing money through the window and dirtying the product.
* Missing bottom o-ring on the coil side: this side is just the suspension coil. It doesn't need to be airtight. The o-ring at the top on the contrary is needed to avoid rain water getting in and rusting the coil. And actually an o-ring at the bottom would be bad because if any leakage happens at the top then the water would be trapped inside instead of being allowed to drop out.
The only issue with this fork is that it is actually too safe for this guy's taste. It makes noises when it receives huge abuse, informing the user that it was not designed for that purpose. And that he should stop doing that before it breaks. This fork is for daily commuting and grocery shopping in the street with the occasional dirt path or uneven pavement here and there. And it does an excellent job at it for a very low price.
captains cog had his bucklos or bolany or whatever and as of right now his fork doesn't really have issues. also the U ding on kev centrals xr pro didn't leak oil even though it wasn't ridden for a year straight
Those plastic shims are to help lateral movement when braking since the dust seals arent strong enough to prevent movement. Those plastic shims actually start to scratch the stanchions if you leave the stanchions dirty. Oh yeah I've actually had the case where my lowers completely fell off and I got pretty beat up luckily it was just a curb drop😂
My wife got a brand new Recon RL on her Juliana budget bike and it was useless from ride 1. Massive play in fork out of box and rebound adjust didnt work at all. Worst part is the front wheel hub only works with these garbage forks so had to get new wheel too. Swapped it with a new takeoff Fox Rythm I had laying around and it actually works.
My ZTZ fat fork is holding up fine after an entire riding season. I take care of it and so far no problems. The dampening, rebound and lockout all work fine. NO PROBLEMS HERE.
That white plastic thing is called slider sleeve which also present in sr suntour xce 28 30 etc models
There should be a piece in the Air side that slides up and down on the rod that has the negative spring on it and that part likes to fail even on Suntour forks like the Epixon, which have a similar layout! That part also has the O-Ring that holds the air.
Honesty over profit, Tremendous
I subscribed, i got SR suntour air/hydraulic fork
Ice riden thousands of miles probably 15,000 miles & still great thiughout 13 years
If you're going for a inexpensive fork, I recommend X-fusion, they cost a bit more, but compared to Rockshocks they are giving them away 😉 i got a RL32 12Omil, I have had it 3 or 4 years on a ebike and I just smash into stuff at a good pace, i never heard the thunk of them bottoming out, never leaks air and is incredibly smooth, I love it, it's just my opinion, but I think they are the best for the money 💰
These Forks are good for the price but the big problem is quality control. You need to have luck and get a good one
So glad I watched this cuz I been looking at budget forks for my new Trek marlin 5 n saw the ztz forks. I think I'll go with rockshox Judy instead. You might have saved my life so thank you!
I’d still buy one of this, but I’ll double check everything before using it first obviously, and I’ll just buy whatever’s missing like the O ring, I think these are good and usable forks it’s just not assembled properly from the factory.
I've always been weary if these cheap forks. I'd rather buy a used Rock Shox or Fox fork and then rebuild it.
We think alike! I love rebuilding the forks
I agree. And after getting over my initial hesitation and actually taking a fork apart, it turned out it's actually doable for a regular mortal with basic tools and access to UA-cam.
@@EvansMTBSaga My old fork needs a rebuild, you down for a video?
dude all forks only have nuts holding on the lowers.
Is it normal to have the damper shaft punch through the lower? That's not even screwed into the lower. It's more like a limit screw
@@EvansMTBSaga no that's def not normal lol. not denying the forks are terrible I was just saying that's how even top end forks are held together but obviously with much better design and materials.
@@sml2238 exactly 👍
My Bolany ZTZ fat fork works fine on my fat ebike, but I don't do downhill or gravel, just roads. The Bolany is SOOO much better than the OEM suspension fork my bike came with (a MOZO Fatman), and works quite well. The Bolany ZTZ is sold as a light duty fork, so that's how I use it. I do check it often for anything loose and it holds air just fine and the rebound adjustment works well enough. I suspect I'll get several years out of it, knock on wood.
I’d still buy one of this, but I’ll double check everything before using it first obviously, and I’ll just buy whatever’s missing like the O ring, I think these are good usable forks it’s just not assembled properly
Dude, the only thing holding the lowers in place on any fork is tiny screws and/or tiny nuts. Sure, the air and damper shafts normally have interference fit to the lowers and are pulled in place by the screws and knocked out with a mallet, but at the end of the day, it's still just two small screws in the bottom holding it all together.
These were freely moving back and forth
The caps should have blue/medium strength thread locker on the threads, to keep them secure as logn as possible, even on a good fork they can get loose. They will get loose without thread locker. but that's one of the reasons the threads go far down. but I recommend regular inspections. the oil on the threads don't help, there should only be suspension grease at the O-ring. Keep in mind that suspension centres or mechanics won't always do this, some might, but any decent fork is assembled this way from the factory, Once my forks caps got loose I removed air and unthreaded them and added Loctite 243 and suspension grease. this kept them secure for longer. The oil on the threads at the ZTZ fork's cap definitely would aid in it getting loose.
Have the same issue with my bucklos fork. Lasted 32 days. Just past the amazon return time frame
Lower end Sr Suntour forks are built pretty much the same way. Except when you buy this you should tighten every little nut and bolt on the fork.
I've got 2 Fox 36 knockoffs for experimenting. Installed bushings, swapped damper and all air components for original fox components, but even like that they don't work as expected since theres no compensation port (no negative chamber) . Still I did a lot of enduro with them, until one of the lower legs started to crack and separate at the bridge. Definitely not recommended. Not safe 🚫🚫🚫
You could upgrade the lower nuts and bolts to stainless steel, adding a crush washer in the process.
Plus you could also buy spare bushings and seals, spu you could have a more reliable fork.
Although, I've seen these forks in free ride fail, getting the fork tube detached or setting it loose, loosing the steering control.
Still, these forks aren't designed for a free ride, so use it for casual XC riding
Wow I thought I was doing good for a small channel but your views just keep going up dude
That doesn't mean that you aren't doing good for a small channel. Evan puts a lot of time into his videos and he is his own toughest critic. Keep making videos and try to keep improving.👍
Ok comment on the plastic thing at 6:08. Its a plastic bushing. Typically there is metal bushings that rely on oil bath to keep em running. These are not so. Which is why they don’t move that great or had any oil prior.
Some times, going cheap if the best way some of us have fun without breaking the bank. If it works, send it.
Evans PLEASE TRY A HIMALO 36 (36mm stanchions!). They are Downhill rated but arrive empty of oil. You can get them in 140,160 and 180mm! Steel bushings, fully rebuildable has foam under seal and grease zeutz. We definitively want to see how they compare to big boys. They are Taiwan made not china. Please oil them and try them!
The bushings are already what you will find on sr suntour basic forks,it doesn't damage stanchion as long it is lubed, but when crap gets inside it's too late for the fork lol
All of the China forks are built almost the same with miner changes. All have the oil strut and some even have an air cartridge instead of an air spring.
I would rather run a used for before one of those death traps.
I don’t think the ZTZ is a good product but why did you add oil to a fork not designed for fork oil in the lowers? Many of the SR Suntour forks are designed to just have grease lubricating the lower fork seals and bushings and also do not have crush washers or o-rings on the bolts/nuts holding the lower together. This is also why they do not have foam rings because they use grease instead of fork oil to lubricate the stanchion.
Right when I installed the fork, it sounded horrible (you can hear it in Wolfticks video). And it wasn't the damper. So for safety I wanted to add something to lubricate it, there was no grease either
you need to get a suspension socket/ flush socket. they will fit on flush, you have a Park Tool chamfered socket.
Hmm I will take a look at it, I thought it was a flush socket. Maybe ordered the wrong one! Thanks for looking out
@@EvansMTBSaga if it's flush you will see it's flat, but I just thought it might be as it slipped so easily, but that might just have been cus you did not hold it down with your hand as you should. to keep the tool more stable, if you only wrench on it it's not secure enough. Yes Park Tool now offers flush sockets, I think that arrived last year.
Suntour use the same slider sleeves between the upper tubes and bottom.
If the ZTZ replaced a much more expensive fork then I imagine it would quite commonly need some work done to fix problems. If the price difference is high enough most backyard mechanics would be happy enough to do the extra work just to save big $$$$$$s.
And remember when Hyundai was crap and Ford was the benchmark? Now it's vice versa.
Jared NEVER uses off-brand parts even for small stuff like grips and pedals it seems like. Jared isn't a bike snob but when he worked at a bike shop he told people to not buy most off-brand parts. but kevcentral and wolftick proved some off-brand parts can take abuse
nooooo don't trow them away!! i would love to have those forks, even do they need o-rings. haha
SunTour air forks all the way! You can convert them to use oil and they're really quite good and supple. Dampers are cheap too!
That plastic piece in the lowers are bushings. A lot of cheap forks use plastic bushings
These forks will always have rich little snobs commenting about them, because they are unbelievably cheap but mine on my E - bike have been on there for three years now and they are absolutely fine, all I’ve replaced is the Stantion wiper seals two or three times ( which is a perishable item) I’ve had them apart about six times, but they still work like out of the box ! If you respect and look after things they will last you, if you abuse them, they could leave you in the lurch, yes they are not Rockshox or Fox, but Rockshox or Fox cost about Ten times as much and I’ve got five hobbies and I’m not putting all my money into one hobby !
I saw a plastic sleeve like that in a really old 1994/5 cheapo Ballistic shock. RJ the bike guy has the video of it.
Good work…thanks for your honesty.
I have heard that the lowers on the ZTZ and a bunch of cheap ass forks are plastic WTF is that true? If so that is how they can keep the price down. Thanks so much for tearing them down and calling them out. And don't forget you get what you pay for.
have you tried Weapon Rifle Fork. it would be nice if you will have a video on it.
these forks are basically suntour xct and xcm type of forks, they dont use oil dude. and these forks are for xc or trail spec rides, not for hardcore downhill riding. if
But do you still recomend this for xc trail and bunny hopping
If Vsauce was into mtb:
I just covered the lowers in red tack grease. The had just a bit of blue grease in the lower lags one of mine dust seals came off during a ride. But anyway I don’t think there met to hold oil.
Yeah they're not meant to hold oil and you're not supposed to add oil in there as this guy suggests. It uses that white plastic cylinder as a bushing and it's supposed to be greased occasionally, no oil.
Those "Anti-bike" delivery drivers, you just can't trust them.....they have all that free time to open packages, loosen bolts/retainers, drain out the oil, and then repackage before delivering.
Just proves you get get what you pay for.....not that more expensive parts don't have quality issues themselves
Oh I know it right! Can you believe those delivery people 😂 buying a high end fork used is the way to go in my opinion
Do the BUCKLOS forks fall into this as well? I have one waiting to go on but they look basically the same as the ZTZ.
I haven't had one myself, but a lot of people are telling me they are very similar
All people criticizing Evan clearly dont understand that these problems can cause really fatal outcomes... Also the person saying you dont understand anything about 'budget friendly' forks doesnt understand that budhet friendly means that the product may break anytime.
True, my fox 40s demolishes this fork in every way
Thanks for pulling these forks apart and going into detail about the major flaws. If your looking to sell a few bikes let me know if your selling the Mongoose PT26.
I've had a set of Bolany forks. Before that it was some other brand, but the air seal began to leak on that other one after a couple years. The trouble with these is if any parts fail there's no company to contact for replacement parts and they're literally designed on the inside out as a proprietary system. That means there isn't a part that can be swapped for the same part of another brand.
You mostly get a product that works if you treat it like an XC fork ,_as per it's intented use_, but without that resource they're a 100% throwaway part.
I know this is an old comment but these forks can be serviced sinced I serviced one that is leaking too every part can be dismantled including the air chamber, the only disposable part is the lockout chamber which is crimped from factory.
@@Benri05 the LO cartridge is based on the Suntour system - they were the ones that bright it to the MTB market - but without the serial number those parts can't be traced to any particular fork. So with the old ones I had, I spent weeks looking for an equivalent Suntour part and could not find an exact match as Suntour changes the cartridge specs every three months for every fork they have over the past decade. In my ones, the inside 🦭 was worn, and nothing from any larger brand matched what I had after months of searching. I love them and would ride and recommend them if there parts available, but without that serviceability in n industry that still has serviceability, they are junk.
like the suntour SR fork they made to light riding not extreme riding. but would trust the SR's a lot more than those for jumping.
People ride suntour at rampage. Suntour duolux is definitely made for extreme riding.
@@stephenbarradell4043 but they are also longer travel than the 80-100mm standard SR XCT and cost 700 or so more. this video and my comment was about the budeget forks, not the premium forks.
I use my mountain bike on the street only, so those forks are fine with me.