i do sound now...
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- I decided to do my own audio for my feature film. Watch to see and hear my tests.
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#filmmaking #sound #audio
Spenser, 32-bit isn't the end all with audio. I'm sure you know by now having worked with someone doing sound there are many other details that need to be addressed. Your post is a fairly easy type of setup to be able to record good sound. Gain staging when using 32-bit audio is still a good idea.
Not necessarily. A lot of 32 but float systems have auto gains. Sound guys are getting nervous 😂
Also, he didn’t say 32 bit was the end all with audio. In fact, he says it’s not a replacement for a good sound guy.
Right, but his post will influence many novice filmmakers into thinking it might.@@PowersBenzoCoaching
@@PowersBenzoCoachingAre camera operators getting nervous with high dynamic range and great autofocus being available in cheap cameras now?
I typed up a big response to your video but deleted it. It's pretty simple; don't do the sound on your feature. It's not going to turn out the way you want it to. Focus on what you're good at and bring in someone who specializes in sound.
I would agree. If you're going to hire anyone extra for your project, make it a sound person. They'll have the expertise and the right equipment to give you a better product saving you time and potentially money trying to piece together a decent kit yourself. I don't want to discourage having and learning a decent sound kit of your own though, a decent 32 bit recorder and the Sennheiser mkh50, and the 416 would make a great kit with a couple nice lavs.
Tbh, no one is really going to care nor notice a difference. I think he should absolutely do his own. Industry is changing, it’s time we change too
@@hhankx I would argue that people absolutely would notice, however, they may not be able to verbalize the difference they are hearing. Dialogue and sound design are huge parts of any film and should never be cheaped out on.
@@extraordinary_ordinary Re-recording/mix/sound deisgn - sure, these are very specialized skills best left to people with experience and golden ears. Your audience will hear a difference if you don't know what you're doing. Handling a mic on set? Eh, sorry, not so much. Anyone who cares to, can learn to be good enough in short order.
@@methodworkerscomp5293 you’re right, anyone can learn. However, is it really a good idea when you’re already acting as the director and DP of a feature? It’s not like this is a talking head interview where you can just breeze through it. Taking on all three responsibilities on a small project is a ton of work, let alone trying to do it for a narrative feature.
If you have absolutely no other choice, then yeah, go for it. But if you’re just trying to save some money, you’re going to end up costing yourself just as much, if not more in the end.
I really don't see anything wrong with getting sound without a sound person even in a feature. Simply put if you have a general understanding of how audio work (wich is rare) and you know how to use decently expensive equipment like this(again we are tightening the circle) you're going to do fine work...if you create your entire product around the idea that you don't have a sound person. No wides (cause you are gonna fuck up), no camera movements that are decently complex. No actors too far away from the camera and each other, not too many actors togheter. A nice, interior, controlled location, no difficult enviromental problems. Shouting and quiet dialogues are kinda resolved with 32 bit, never tested it tough, better than nothing i suppose. It basically destroys your ability to do anything remotely complex but it could work. Still gonna need sound post anyway.
I'm currently waiting for the mke 600 to come in to pair with the zoom f3 and 6k pro. Stepping up from a 100 dollar deity mic. Sound is definitely something that I have struggled with over the last year.
Don't forget to record some "empty room" or "pure background" without dialog, so that you can blend that if you need to redo sound without being back in that same room? Love your vids. Never posted before though - I'm an old time subscriber.
Sorry if that advice was obvious, and you already knew… All this stuff is still “armchair” knowledge for me, and I dream about getting out there and doing it!
Timecode by wire from a zoom f6 + G4 lavs for wide or moving shots. Line out to a splitter into camera(s) for a good in camera scratch track.
I recently started using the Zoom F6 with Diety TC-1 timecode boxes...best thing ever. Changed my life.
Me Too!!!! AAAAAMEN. The timecode horrors of yesterday are gone
Hi Spenser,
Great video as always a Classical Musician,music producer and lately producing music video.
You could get away with Zoom F8n pro with time code 32bit float for around 1000$.
I do mostly multicam multitrack audio live concert recording but I used multi mic set on documentary still adds
You have more channel redoundancy,F8n pro could prove useful if you don’t have an audio guy and a lot of actors speaking simultanuesly
It all what you need as recorder you could do a multi mic setup lav mics + boom you could try multiple rode NTG5.
Downside of it you re loosing plenty of time to setup the audio of the scene and in post.
Good Omni cheap Line Audio OM1 Swedish very flat respons SDC small could prove useful on set if you need Omni pattern on budget it is like a size of shoeps CCM (what you use in big productions) unit with mk2 Kapseln for 1/8 of the price.
Post for audio if you are not trained could be really challenging…for complicated scene…
Try wide cardiods as well Line Audio CM4 it could work out as well…
Have fun
Fil
MKH-50 is good with people that are within about two to three feet of each other for a dialogue. I've done it on set, just planted it in the middle and didn't really have to cue. For an outdoor boom you may want to check out the DPA 2017 that came out this year. DPA has a reputation for making some of the best sounding mics is well known in the industry and boom ops I've worked with love the 4017b or 4017c but they are over 2000$. If you can spend a little more than 1000$ for an outdoor boom the Sanken CS-3e is quite good and a lot of boom ops/sound mixers I know like it for indoor reverberant spaces too.
I wrote this a couple times but I dont want to come off as being a troll or a hater... I don't want to go point by point... So I will leave it as the most concise I can be, NO... just NO.
almost every assumption from what the difference between a super/hyper cardiod and a shotgun is designed for and proper mic placement.
Almost every legendary Director at some point in time has either directly said, the following or indicated as such… Crate audio is not just half of a film, but arguably more important than cinematography or lighting alone.
For YT or corporate work amateur audio (note a dergotive, simply a delenation)... but there are perceptible differences between throwing quality mic on a boom and set and forget as there is from on camera mics to getting some kind of off camera audio... and the audience WILL notice... even if you think it sounds fine when working on it in post.
If its a project you truly care about hire a sound recordist... EVEN if you have all the gear yourself.... you are not going to want to be working as a DP/Director... or working with a DP and then your actors to find out when you get back to look at rushes to notice.... damn... when we moved the camera we didnt get optimal mic placement and now these two recordings have a totally different "presence" to them... (think lighting quality/color/ratios)... or if you are doing camera movement, or your talent moves.
the world of audio recording is deep... and the present state of AI and post production is constantly evolving , but you cannot fix off access recordings effectively or cheaply.... 32bit simply addresses an ASPECT of amplitude... it won't change frequency, nor a poor noise to signal ratio... you are not going to get a pleasing proximity boost via post... unless you hire someone VERY expensive...who knows the bleeding edge... and even then you still wont get what would have been less expensive to begin with.
The day is likely to be coming where you can simply have scratch on set recordings, create a voice clone of your talent and then use voice to voice conversation... but they still have not worked out (at least in the research papers/algorithms I have seen) the formant granular issue (which formant synthesis dates back to at least the 70's)... most people notice when they are complete attention to something when there is something off... and almost all audio people here it immediately... its essentially the uncanny valley effect in audio... there are slight irregularity’s in the transition between certain voul's of consonants.
You really dont want your audience to be constantly dealing with low level of cognitive dissonance of... Did that last part sound weird... even if its done so well that it is more of a subconscious feeling, rather then a thought. Obviously you want them engaged with your art... just not that way.
i've used this exact audio setup for a Skate Doc I did and It was super convenient since i was solo
Audio, camera image quality , film light quality etc in 2023 everything is good and only way you can tell them apart is if you do a side by side and even than it’s still hard to tell. I’ve change my mindset on how I view creating. What I look for now is what will make my job easier why handicap myself just to be look at as “real” filmmaker. The more I can just focus on the story the better I will get. I’m just waiting on getting a camera so I can start back with my new mindset
Good vid! I just did the sound design on my last vid and it came out better than I thought
I have an MKE 200 and it works well too with FX.
In terms of recording location dialog (90%+ of the location work for a movie), historically a dedicated "sound guy" was needed for two reasons:
1. Ride the levels
2. Position the mic
32-bit float recording effectively eliminates job one. (Sorry, but it's true.) For simple shots, job two can be taught to any reasonably conscientious PA. More complex shots - especially if your actors are improvising blocking - will challenge an amateur. A great location sound person is able to intuit not just where the mic needs to be now, but where it needs to go, keeping it just out of shot.
You're also forgetting how important it is to know how to properly put a lav on talent. It's not nearly as simple as just clipping or taping a mic to someone. If you don't know what you're doing then you might as well just throw away the wireless lav since you won't get any usable audio from it.
@@extraordinary_ordinary That's a good point, but I would argue that there are a few good techniques that any indie filmmaker can learn from an afternoon on YT. (Certainly good enough for simple stuff like corporate work.) But if you're relying on a lav for hero sound on a film, then you're back to needing to monitor because even with the best technique you'll get handling noise at times. If I'm using lavs as anything more than back-ups, I want a dedicated sound person just because I've already got too many other things to worry about than whether or not a shirt rustled.
The deity S mic 2 is a very good budget alternative shotgun. The Rode NTG mic did not sound pleasant (that's my subjective opinion).
Obviously don't let my opinion stop anyone as you can work magic in post if you have skill. I just find the S mic 2 to bring a good game for $400.
What are you using for the voice isolation?
Probably resolve. It’s a built in toggle in the inspector, and it’s fantastic. He’s also been editing in resolve for years now
I bought a mkh 50 last year after renting it multiple times for anything dialogue related. It’s legendary as a vocal mic for a reason.
If you’re looking to do setups for the short film, I’d recommend looking into the sound devices MixPre (6 or 10 depending on how many people you need to mic) then you can have the mkh50 + multiple lavs to mix in wherever you need it. It’s a kit I use all the time which definitely saves me budget wise.
the rode mic sounded the same lol.. but I had my MacBook on volume 4