Jackie is a delight. She would be insufferable in real life, but she is just over the top enough in her aesthetics to balance being a "dumb-dumb", as a charming satire. 🥰
Also the background swelling of music only for the conservative, appropriate to reflect a particular emotional response.. this video is a fucking masterpiece 🙌🏻🙌🏻 Edit: I just remembered that helicopter movie shoot P45 did after getting Covid, with the same orchestral music.. absolute madness.
Here is the pattern - the left silence themselves, the right keeps talking, then the left demands that the right also silence themselves, the right talks about being silenced, the left silence themselves again, then the right says something that offends again
I just love that the statue from "Shame" is covered and placed behind the Christian lady. Highlighting her repressed feelings. Just the little things Natalie does.
Is there a better summation of how people dismiss the struggles of addicts than "all I have to do is give up the one thing that makes my life feel worth living"? Perfection
As someone who was heavily dependent on a variety of illegally obtained prescription drugs from March 2022 to March of this year, boy is this true. I've not touched any of these drugs since this March, and can't shake the feeling that people will assume, and have assumed, that this is because of some sort of mythical 'willpower' I've magically developed, as opposed to simply being lucky enough that I have now been put on the right meds, and given the right therapist, so that I'm no longer getting an average of 2 hours' sleep per week (whenever I wasn't on drugs) and spending every waking moment so tormented by recurring anxious and depressive thoughts and constant traumatic flashbacks that I was lowkey wanting to unalive myself. Not using those drugs is just fundamentally easier now that my life actually feels worth living without them. If my life were still as it were until I was hospitalised earlier this year with panic attacks, drug withdrawal and severe sleep deprivation, which triggered the intervention and securing of support I'd desperately needed for years, I could easily still be on those drugs to this day, as anything was better than my life felt while sober. I haven't become a 'better person', as people lucky enough not to struggle with addiction of that sort of trauma often seem to pontificate; I was just fucking fortunate to get out of it, and it's just sad that too many other people weren't afforded these chances and couldn't get out. Sorry for the rant.
I'm a 50yo, cis, rural white guy so allow me to talk about one of the less important parts of this video. I remember movies from the 50's and 60's where having a actor on stage interacting with their self as a different character was the very height of movie magic. Studios were impressive if they pulled this off. The fact that a small group of really talented people can pull this off seamlessly and convincingly on a youtube channel kind of blows me away. Now back to liking the more important points and stories everyone else is making in these comments. This is such a nice community and Natalie Wynn is a fucking national treasure.
Jackie runs the BEST podcast. she’s bringing TRUTH to the masses. anyone denying this is part of the cancel culture sexual anarchists. let THAT sink in.
"I will stay right here, and I will remind you every minute for hundreds of consecutive minutes, that your pain is optional." Nothing has ever so perfectly summarized my experience of addiction. Utterly love your writing.
Fuck, this describes the deepest, darkest part of my Alcoholism. It has been the cheapest thing to help make my anxious, undiagnosed AuDHD ass feel normal until I got my meds. Now I drink because it's still something I love, despite how therapy helps along with my medication.
I know she's only comic relief, but Jackie as a character is so fascinating. Her childish view of freedom that somehow coexist with her desire for a political strongman to take control, her deep incuriosity and lack of stakes and values coupled with neurotic fear of anything foreign. So compelling. She may be very satirized and comical (and inspired by real life figures 😉), but mannn I would pay to witness a deep dive to Jackie's "hunger" the way this video is for Justine!
Huh. Interesting thought. I think her positions are all shallow - she’s not actually attached to any of them and none of them have any real foundation. She can’t deep dive into them because she’s just parroting someone else’s ideas. But clearly she has a hunger, even if it is totally unacknowledged. What might it be? That WOULD be interesting. It would also be a little sad to lose an entertainingly two-dimensional character. 😜 Like Jackie’s ideas, I prefer her to stay unexamined!
I mean, she's literally just averageamerican.jpeg. There's a reason she was literally in the center between letting people who aren't white, christian conservatives exist in peace and full blown theocracy.
Yes, I agree also Jackie is hotter...is that wrong???? I think that's wrong??? but Jackie is hotter tho. Seriously tho belive if you will just be kind tho. Also viod would go great in coffee hot not iced cold coffee tastes like sad.
I remember seeing a TED Talk, back when those were actually fairly reputable, about how addiction is as much about social dependency as it is chemical. The people most vulnerable to addiction are often very socially isolated, and feel like they have no one to share their burdens with. They feel fundamentally disconnected from society, and so seek to replace that connection with substances or self-destructive behavior. An alcoholic referring to the bottle as their best friend may be more right than even they realize. The comfort that the substance provides becomes a very real simulation of the comfort of another person, and it gets even more dangerous if the user finds themselves in a community of other addicts, as they find double-reinforcement of their desire for connection and community, both through the substance and the other users. The most effective way to treat addiction, therefore, is with community care and resocialization. We need to embrace people with addiction, and let them know that they are loved. It's no wonder that many people going through recovery find shelter in religion, but if anything I think that just proves that the secular world needs to embrace love and humanism more than ever. If the most loving and supportive community the average person can find is a pseudo-cannibalistic death cult, then what does that say about the rest of us?!
Very well put. I was in that exact circumstance, doing addictive drugs with people who I thought were the only people who cared about me and who I valued more than family. It spiralled out of control, and it took a miracle to get out of it. (Basically, a fortunate chance to make other social connections.) Many others aren't that lucky.
"A bunch of wounded people wounding each other." That's really spot on. Sometimes I really feel that it's the same on Native Twitter and other online indigenous communities. A bunch of oppressed, traumatized people just fighting for scraps amoungst ourselves instead of fighting against the forces that have crushed us.
The video on Envy would play a big part of a lot of that. There are some really damaged people out there who can only feel happy by trying to destroy someone else.
Makes sense. I dont go on twitter anymore, and I don’t try to interact with indigenous communities anymore because I’m sick of being called a half-breed. Lol. My grandma is Lumbee “Indian” who DNA tested Congolese (Lumbee are/ were multiracial/cultural and because of this still arent even recognized federally even though theyve been fighting for years) This is ironic because the few times I’ve been able to press my Grandma about this kind of hard-topic stuff… she isn’t mad at the right people. 0 clue where to direct her anger. I dont even think she’s angry? She blames “the blacks” for stuff that had nothing to do with black people… shit, she IS “black people”. Its just really sad and confusing. I love my Grandma but her childhood/upbringing was tough and really did a number on her.
God, rewatching Contra is always worthwhile. Seeing the ways in which Justine follows much the same path Virginia did. Virginia found a daddy to discipline her and assuage her shame and Justine found a mommy to give her comfort and affection. Both couldn’t find that connection in other relationships so they found another, easier source. One that helps but imprisons. One that robs them of themself.
Yes and both mommy and daddy cast shame for having pain. Shame is the central pain, the first pain Justine admits to, as well as the ongoing plight for Virginia
This isn't even a UA-cam video, this is straight up a short film about drugs and drug addiction. Natalie should absolutely consider just becoming a director if she can make something as unique as this within the confines of a BreadTube video essay.
@@Robersora I mean yeah but like those weren't made for the purpose of being "UA-cam videos" by "UA-camrs", if you know what I mean. This is special because this is someone using the _format_ of a UA-cam video essay to create a short film.
I suspect this wanted to be a compliment, but I think you are underestimating the importance of UA-cam videos at this point I also guess that being a director AND actress, editor, musician, makeup artist, etc. leads to a higher self expression and possibly satisfaction (but teamwork is good to, to each their own)
She's already a director (and an actress, script writer, producer...). UA-cam just happens to be her medium, and will remain so for the foreseeable future (which is probably for the best, I don't see any incentive for her to go any other route right now unless a huge, massive opportunity with full artistic and political freedom is thrown her way).
I forgot how intoxicating self-flagellation can be. You've really cracked into what makes fashy evangelicals tick, how they're obsessed with their own pain and self denial and talk themselves into believing that their particular form of hatred is actually loving. It's really self reinforcing.
it's really scary to think I could have been one of those people. It's not love. It's love in the sense that an abuser loves you. you have no agency except for what isn't specified. The escapism that religion provides can be a damaging addiction in it's own right. The guilt you feel from never being pious enough far outweighs the peace one may feel for a vague reassurance of an afterlife.
It struck me immediately that "Lucy"'s rhetoric was eerily similar to Virginia's. A sort of incessant preying on a sense of lack, insisting that you are not whole and can only be made so through what they're peddling. Both in an elaborate and sinister bid to claim your soul for their own gratification.
And Justine is, theoretically, a centrist. Conservative when compared to, say, Tabby, but still more liberal than Tiffany and WAY more than Virginia. There's... Layers to that. Serious LAYERS. The "all goes, whatever feels good. Choose not to be sad" of Mother Void vs Dad's™ obsession with "following rules", always doing as He says - very Dionysic and Apollin contrast. But completely warped. They're both fucked, like a broken mirror, cutting everyone around them while reflecting bits of one another. Justine says Virginia is imoderate with her passions-but she herself is imoderate. Imoderate her misery. It's literally what Hype and Void mean. One is euphoria, the other is emptiness. It's gorging yourself until you feel sick against slowly emaciating, filling with nothing. .... The more I think about the text and the symbols the deeper it gets. Fucking hell- Natalie is a mad genius
“If God exists, im sure His mind is bigger than yours and with or without your approval, I will always be who I am.” This hits hard and I cried a little ngl. Great video Natalie. ❤️
As a progressive Christian, it was such a pain to watch this. I get it completely that Virginia finds so much joy in God, but it saddens me that she thinks that she has to let go of her sexuality to experience that. This quote hit hard indeed: God's mind is infinitely bigger!
@@Jeremy-wp4yh not to answer for Tom but there is so, so much beyond American evangelical Christianity. Many/most Christians worldwide don't really even recognize them as part of the universal church body, not to flame that fire too much but it's important to place them in their proper context. Culture wars are not the focus of Christianity, Christ is. Love is the focus. People are the focus. But I don't blame you or anyone else one for assuming it's about culture! That's what I used to think as well
@@withelisa Christianity is based on the Bible. And that's the end all. Any new ageism or progressive forms are just diluted more digestable forms of religion that people have created to suit their lives eg. "God is Grey" on youtube. So it makes no sense why people would Want to half-commit to something they're not ready for.
I don’t even know if you’ll read this, Natalie, but this is exactly what I’ve experienced as a result of being a queer trans student on a religious college campus. A person like Virginia was invited to our campus to talk to us, and I didn’t know what to do. I was super upset and I don’t know what to do with my own religious faith because of the way people have used the words of this faith against me. Thank you so much for giving me a way to explain the way I’m treated to my parents and friends.
Hey, just commenting to say that I wish you the best. I can understand what you're going through to a degree. (Neurodivergent and ace, not the same I know, but still) I myself am still religious, but I think it's important to not let people like me or these Virginia esque people tell you or bully you into what to decide. If you decide to step away from faith, that does not make you a monster. If you decide keep your faith, then you don't have to change who you are for that. Religious or not, for god or not for god, what purpose does learning stuff about life have if it's not really *you* who's learning it. Sorry if I misinterpreted your comment btw 😅
I am not a member of a minority which is attacked in Christian communities. But I can relate to this a lot. I keep my faith to my self but I now feel as if I am supporting hateful people by just being Christian. It scares me how much I might get judged by being Christian. I want to study Islam at university, but I feel as if the academics will judge me or think I have bias by being Christian. I didn’t even tell my atheist friend because I was scared of being called stupid.
@@obscuredictionary3263 Hey now, there are plenty of christian scientists and also plenty of christians made scientific discoveries in the past. There are also plenty of loving christians, such as pastor fred rogers. If anyone calls you bigoted or stupid remind them of these facts. Also, it is possible to study a subject while disagreeing with the meat of the subject. As long as you try to be concious of your bias it should be fine
I like the fact that Justine isn’t trying to respond with the language Virginia uses because it will inevitably enable the Christian dialectic. Justine is trying to look beyond what is presented to her - the superficially enlightened woman. She sees Virginia for what she is in fact - a person addicted to being commanded
True that: "In all of the essentials of life we are alone, and you cannot avoid being your own jailer by making yourself someone else's prisoner." Elie Wiesel [Nobel laureate and Holocaust survivor]
I don't see it so much as a literal addiction to authority so much as a paradigm through which someone perseveres to counteract their literal addictions. But an interesting observation.
Amen to that lol! I find that the UA-camrs who post the least ofter post the most enjoyable videos. They are like little treasures that brighten my day
I think the most spot on remark on addiction made here is the feeling you get when you deny yourself the relief of a substance. It really feels like you are choosing pain, which makes you accountable for your own sadness in that moment. Even popping a pill that takes 30 mins to kick in gives you instant relief, because it calms the anxiety and the fear of the feeling that tells you your pain will go on untreated. It's like your brain tricking you that abusing a substance is self care, when the grim reality of sobriety is so cruel.
Agreed. It is so hard to feel like you are actively denying yourself the ability to feel better. I've had to learn to tell myself that pain is not, in fact, optional. Any pain I try to defer by using substances to make it go away will come back and it will probably be worse, because you need to feel those feelings. Kicking the can down the road just delays it, it doesn't save you from it. But that can feel toothless when you find out you can delay the pain for a long, long, long time, so don't take my meaning to be that this perspective is curative. It's just one that helped me.
One of my loved ones’ sponsors liked to say that sober stands for Son of a Bitch, Everything’s Real. Fits in well with what you’re saying… quitting isn’t just giving up the good feeling, it’s facing the crushing darkness of reality and learning to find joy in it anyway which is… a steep fucking hill to climb.
Virginia's rant about why she 'converted', silly as it is, actually made me realise for the first time why people cling to religion and 'traditional values' so much. Being part of a community, feeling accepted, having a ready-made set of values given by some perfect, irrefutable being... that must be so comforting. Especially if you're in pain. It's like this by design, I think - even if you don't believe, when you visit a church, the atmosphere and building itself just makes you feel so small, it inspires deferance and a need for belonging.
I think it's also because that mentality comes pre-made for people. You literally don't have to put in any mental work to understand and accept it. In most of the US, Christianity is just the default that people are raised in. Most people don't really like using their brains, it's easier to just accept what you've always been told is true.
Yes! Church's are so aware of this, listen to any preacher and he'll speak of feeling broken, empty, or alone and how God will fill that hole in your heart. Presenting this perfect morally uncomplicated way to escape all your problems, like who wouldn't take that opportunity in vulnerable positions?
As a recovering heroin addict, I just want to thank you for this incredible depiction of what it's like to want nothing more than to make the pain stop. I'm not sure what it is that you might be going through, but your art has gotten me through some really dark times. Wishing you well, beautiful.
You're not alone in your fight. A lot of us are recovering addicts, myself included. This video was tough to watch because, as you said, it's an incredibly depiction of what we all go through.
I lost my best friend to it a few years back. The final act was definitely a lot to take in and got me thinking about him in a way that I try to avoid. I'm glad you're still here.
I find it so interesting how Virginia and Justine's stories mirror each other, and how each of them simply went down a different path to cope with the hand that they were dealt. Virginia buried her sexuality with celibacy and fully removed her self-image from that of her body to cope with dysphoria. Justine embraces her gender and sexuality and fights for them to be recognized. I found it interesting how both characters had similar struggles yet because of their paths see things differently. Virginia gave up her identity for the sake of community and expects others to do the same while Justine prioritized her identity over being in a community and thinks that not doing so is suppressing herself. Both of them have what the other lacks and both feel a sense of yearning because of it. The God vs Devil dichotomy is interesting given that people go to either for the same reasons. People seek out higher powers as a source of comfort, either through scripture or substance. Virginia speaks about how one must exist outside of the flesh to avoid temptation, this while seeming off-topic about drug use is actually a direct result of it. Substance use is not a way to indulge in the flesh rather it is often used to remove oneself from it. Justine uses void to mute the senses rather than to indulge in them (presumably compared to hype) which is exactly what Virginia uses religion for, while her addiction is not carnal it still could become an addiction nonetheless. I love your videos!! They're always steeped in so much meaning and artistic value, I can't wait to see what you do next!
Just to run down the track a way with a couple of questions regarding Virginia being 'saved': she was in an incredibly vulnerable place when she attended the church with her mom. Did the church prey upon her vulnerability and manipulate her as Lucy preys upon Justine? Was Virginia effectively subjected to a form of conversion therapy?
I enjoyed reading through your reading! 🤍 Only the part where you said that Justine chose identity over community startled me - is there no community amongst other 'individualists'? Both of them seem disintegrated from actual community, and I guess there is a performativity aspect on both sides of coping, as one could say that both replace aspects of their authentic personality with ... quotables. What I will continue to muse on is the trans-theistic Hype/Void dichotomy. I thought that was a very clever translation/reduction of contemporary unconsciously lived concepts of the same, age-old dualism that seems to come with experiencing the human condition in this mortal coil through which we travel with our flesh vehicle.
@@PeachPlastic i totally get that! I meant it more in a sense that Justine herself seems to lack a community rather than the trans community as a whole. She seems to lack close relationships with her family due to her identity and isn’t shown to have many close people in her life. This is in contrast to Virginia who seemingly has some kind of community because of her decision. This isn’t a reading on being lgbt vs being religious as a whole and more so on the individual characters represented in the video.
Thank you for addressing the self-perpetuating ever present and ever given out hurt in the LGBTQI+ community. It does things to a person. Hopefully bringing attention to it can help. At least somebody. At least a little bit.
💯 absolutely. I attended a pride parade today in Germany. The amount of people with obviously self harm scars … crazy, so many - old, young, men, women, Enbys, trans … it was not the first time I have noticed this. 😔 There is a lot work to do, but it always starts with awareness of the problem.
When this first came out I was deep in my alcoholism. I didn’t fully understand this video or myself. Now 6 months into recovery and it makes so much more sense. Thank you ❤
As a young trans person your videos and a lot of the dog whistles used in this video are something I live with everyday and it's so helpful to hear you discuss it and remind me i am not insane for fighting transphobia
Having content of this level accessible for free (well, theoretically free) to people all over the world is mind blowing. Your channel is an oasis and an inspiration for me in Brazil. Thanks!
@@LadyAtoli More communists who advocate for vice and overturning western traditions because they lack the composure to abide by norms? Not really. We saw what that led to at CHOP/CHAZ, Weimar and later during historical communist rule I appreciate the entertainment value and the attempt to bring up different perspectives even if it's done through strawman arguments, but most people don't resonate with Contra's conclusions or politics.
@@pollytix7271 This argument is funny because your examples include anarchist movements of people trying to pull away from a system while being under attack. You also fail to acknowledge that socialist policies exist in almost all developed "western" countries at this point. What do you think Social Security is? Public education? Taking care and providing the needs of people to be successful is how you create a healthy society. Also somehow you imply capitalism is working and devoid of problems. Things aren't so great in the great occupation of the USA either. Human misery is at a peak. We have mass shootings weekly. Sucides are on the rise. And we have one of the most toxic cultures in the world. Countries that have blended socialist policies into their societies are way less violent, way less discontent, and typically way more educated.
All jokes aside (I commented “yes mommy”), being a queer teacher in the Deep South, I resonate a lot with this. Especially that I teach my seniors Sappho as part of my ancient lit unit, I’ve had a few parents call me groomer because small town america and evangelism decided that’s what teachers are now. Your videos have always added a sense of belonging to me, and your old videos even made me decide to choose to work instead of pursuing a PhD. Thank you for all you do ❤️
29:07 - What I really love about this bit where Justine pretends to be an interlocutor in a Socratic dialogue is that she's roasting BOTH Virginia and Plato. Plato as a follower of Socrates believed like his teacher that true enlightenment and philosophical progress comes from dialogue and hence why he structured all his work as conversations between Socrates and various randos from around Athens. You notice in the early dialogues that they were actual conversations, and Socrates' interlocutors would actually push back against him, raise their own points, and make their own arguments. More and more in Plato's later work, however, you notice he really just wants everyone to shut up and listen to Socrates (i.e., Plato's) ideas. However, Plato could never quite make himself get rid of the dialogue format altogether, so by the time you get to, like, The Republic, you'll have the "dialogue" consist in Socrates preaching for a page or two, and then you'll get a quick line thrown in by some stooge saying "Yes, it must be" or something before Socrates continues rambling. Justine using those responses cast such classicist shade against Virginia. Virginia said she wanted to try to reach Justine through reasoned dialogue, but she obviously, like the late Plato, just wanted to preach.
For me, Virginia’s attempt at a Socratic refutation only increases my appreciation for Plato. Reading the early and middle dialogues, and even many of the late ones, you can notice that Plato arranges the steps of Socrates’ arguments carefully so that, typically, the interlocutor agrees to several key points before Socrates introduces a twist that ties everything together into a counterintuitive conclusion. He doesn’t do this to trick the interlocutor underhandedly, but because, if it’s too obvious where the argument is headed, the interlocutor will try to sabotage it. But Virginia’s attempt is ham-fisted and obvious. She tries to score a refutation in only three questions, and had she brushed up on her apologetics beforehand, she might have tried to build her case on shared premises between herself and Justine. These are things that Plato clearly appreciates and incorporates. Hence he is the OG.
@@jamesmire “The interlocutor” still being Socrates. Saying he gets his interlocutor to agree doesn’t really mean much when it’s still coming out of his own mind. Of course he can’t come up with an objection. If he could then he probably wouldn’t hold the belief.
Listening to Justine describe erotic love has the same effect as watching someone make the most delicious looking chocolate cake while you are currently in an apartment with only instant ramen and all the stores are closed.
As an ace, it was kinda like watching someone make a delicious cake while you're so full you couldn't possibly eat anymore. It's still nice to see. And it also helped me understand some stuff about sexual attraction which I didn't think about
Certainly hit home in a way considering how “love” and dating is basically commodified to the point of soul sucking torture. Dating apps are a joke. Everything is all about dtf culture, her comment about the lack of community and how it’s a bunch of wounded people wounding each other also couldn’t be any more true. It’s a damn shame itself. Very powerful feature.
Im turning 30 in a few hours. The last few years have been dark. You have been one of the people who helped me get my life back. Thank you Natalie. Watching a contrapoints video is a great birthday present. Stay healthy and happy.
happy birthday! a lot of people find happiness in their 30s, 40s, or later. whatever youre going through now is neither a waste nor hopeless. one day you'll thank yourself for holding on even during your darkest times :)
“You just know that what you’re saying is indefensible, so you defend your ‘right’ to say it” - that is a beautifully concise take down of the whole nonsense. I will use that!
This was a difficult watch on so many levels, but masterfully done. The twisted religious arguments, the "I don't care so long as I can indulge myself" right-wing libertarians, the harried center-left "I can get through to these people! wait, oh no" academic who can't get two words in before they're twisted into the host's hostile framing of the issue... It shows how cartoonish the "debate" sphere really is. Jennifer's religious rhetoric is exactly as insidious as what real adherents use, both the "I'm just being reasonable"-to-nonsense gish-gallop and the talking in endless circles to avoid answering the question (note: she never did answer anything - even nonsexual like "opening jars" - she actually likes about men, just waxed on about religious exctasy like a 17th century nun describing a tryst with a fellow nun). The podcast segment clearly illustrated how this format is insidious in creating confusion and "gotcha" moments for entertainment rather than clarifying even one perspective. I also appreciated how the segment after the podcast shows how people who are publicly at-least-trying to show up for reason and actual-liberty (as opposed to flag-waving increasingly-open-fascism) might present a stoic face and snappy comebacks in the moment but still be rocked internally by the assaults (and the hundred other things any of us are navigating at any given moment). And in those moments (eons) of isolation, doubt, and pain we can choose relief that brings its own sorrows. Especially when some forms (alcohol, religious zealotry, weed, other drugs) are encouraged in our social/cultural groups. Looking forward to how the open ending here is picked up in part 2. I'm sure Contra has a lot more to say.
@@eps3154 Public scrutiny is a pressure cooker, and the reflexive offhand opinion machines are so ingrained these days that friends, foes, and fans alike can all fall on the wrong side of well-meant constructive criticism vs pile-on.
@@PhosphorAlchemist especially since one instance of genuinely well-meant criticism can become part of a pile-on, and read identically to hundreds of other messages, it’s sort of a gestalt phenomenon
world sees Russian alcoholism as a joke is because the West doesn't want to see alcoholism as a problem. You have older folks complaining about silly things like Gamer addiction, but they don't ever say zilch about alcoholism even though it's far worse. This is because people don't want to see the harm in something they enjoy, especially when they enjoy it too much
UA-camr and ex-evangelical Genetically modified sceptic made a video called „Awful things we believed at my evangelical university“. It included believing that faith in god could turn one straight. Once the university invited an „ex-gay“ evangelist to speak to the students. One student asked weather he was attracted to women now. He just replied no and nothing else, then went on to talk about something else. When I heard that story I had to think of Virginia.
Even though this video is about drugs on one level, I feel on a deeper level, it is about loneliness. Justine and Virginia are both alone, even if Justine admits the important truths about herself while V denies them at this point in her life. So it turns out, drugs and this all-encompassing type of belief serve the same purpose for them: to escape the reality they know but can't accept... and it is not their identities that make it unbearable. It's the heartbreak and the loneliness.
Ok but can we talk about Natalie’s beautiful piano playing? As a newly minted ~doctor in piano performance~, I am in absolute awe. Obviously, everything else in the video was outstanding and meaningful and gave me a new understanding of life, but the piano playing is really not to be overlooked!
this is literally 80% of people’s Twitter beef with contra probably really actually; a character who somewhat looks like her in a dialectic says something people don’t like and people just assume contra feels that way
"It's just a simple matter of giving up the only thing that makes me that life worth living... how hard can that be?" Is almost exactly what I told myself when I quit. As an addict, I identified with this video a lot. Especially entering AA/NA as an atheist. Great content!
I'm glad your trying, and I hope the emptiness gets better for you soon and you get all the support you need. How is AA/NA as an atheist? I'm not an addict but I'm at war with the concept. On one hand, is seems to be THE way to get support for addicts. On the other, the steps and the entire foundation are rooted in an ideology I can't accept. I feel like if I had to go through it, the jesus stuff would make participating more difficult. I'm working toward being a social worker (still a ways to go). Just curious what the experience in the group feels like for when I try to support people suffering from addiction in the future, especially for people that aren't spiritual.
@@fayble11 for me, in NA, it was hard to look past at the start - there was a lot of talk of god, and i wasn't (and still am not) big on the idea of god in the religious sense. but it's not a religious program - at least, it's not supposed to be. the word 'god' has now become a placeholder for me for anything that's able to help me through, something that's stronger than my addiction. usually, that's earthly things for me - a big part of my 'god' or 'higher power' are the recovering addicts that surround me, who are able and willing to help me, get me out of my own head, and happen to say the things i need to hear at the right times. NA talks of a 'god of our own understanding', and this is how i understand it, personally; it's up to me to interpret it, so long as it works. hope that makes sense :)
It doesn't even need to be something as tough as drugs. For me it is just food. Being overweight (not even morbidly) gives me a lot of pain and dissatisfaction but I just can't bring myself to take away this biggest pleasure of my life and switch to proverbial salad. And boy have I tried. It's especially bad considering having meals with people close to me is such a part of the culture and eating can't be just stopped like with alcohol or drugs.
Justine describes Virgina as "boring", but her speeches are far from it. I found the over the top religious ramblings so evocative and aesthetically powerful, I can see how someone could become completely convinced. It really scratches that cosmic horror itch, that strange desire for things much larger than life. It's a bit like when you have a toothache and for some strange reason press your tongue against it, making the pain worse: to turn your shame into something of epic proportions is oddly empowering, as is total, voluntary submission to cosmic machinations. Even tho she doesn't see it, I think her sense of shame is a lot like Virginia's, and her Void a lot like a spiritual rapture. Thanks for making yet another wonderfully painful, soul-piercing piece, Natalie! I wish you all the best
That strange empowerment you're mentioning is possibly at the root of why fascism is so seductive to so many. The self-hate puts them above their own pain. They take on the superior position of the oppressor. From there it's only a matter of time before it gets externalized and projected out onto the world as a political reality
I grew up in a Christian family, so hearing the rhetoric threw me back to when I would stand in the pews, hating myself in various ways, hoping desperately that I would feel the presence of God and be saved.
You did notice all the horror imagery on the screen during her speeches, didn't you? This video was basically Plato's Symposium crossed with a horror movie.
Justine's speech about erotic love actually does shut Virginia up for two minutes. It seems to touch her: her face softens when she looks at Justine. But then Justine follows it up by insulting Jackie and Virginia, Jackie takes offense and throws a little tantrum, Justine turns her focus to Jackie, and so Virginia has the time to suppress her feelings and respond from faith instead.
Someone else said this, but Natalie doesn’t get enough credit for how great of an actress she is, and that really shines in the “fictional debate” episodes
I am: - a former (pretty damn extreme) Christian - in a long introspective period, in which I'm regularly questioning my gender - an addict - named Justin - now desperately waiting for part 2 I discovered your channel a few months ago, I think you're doing incredible work, and this video is no different. Thanks for doing what you do!
This depiction of opiate addiction is so spot on its almost difficult to watch. Everything from that initial conversation with satan that got her hooked to the “Five drops to take the edge off” to it becoming the only thing that makes life feel worth living. You went above and beyond Natalie and I hope you understand that this episode has made so many people feel seen in that addiction is as much a product of the world around us as it is the drug itself, especially within the queer community. You got me crying towards the end there. Excellent work as always.
I had an opiate prescription for 5-6 days after a medical procedure when I was much younger and I was ready to have someone tie me to a mast to prevent me from getting more. It sounds melodramatic to frame a short term prescription in those terms, but I'm sure it would have killed me if I'd had access to more.
I am unable to think of a better depiction of addiction. It was painfully accurate. I feel like this is one of those videos that I'll remember for a very, very long time.
I was just contemplating my romantic and sexual failures - I’m a 28-years old gay man without a single day of serious relationships with anyone, lonely, sometimes childish and projecting. And I was just thinking - maybe, MAYBE I should just throw in a towel on my gayness and become a straight guy, find a girl and get married. And then our Dark Goddess-Mother Natalie relentlessly and MERCILESSLY dropped this Virginia Lamm character on me. SPECIFICALLY the lines “You’ve amputated a half of your own soul” and something about not being strong and grown up enough to endure rejection hit me pretty hard. So… here I am. 28, gay as a rainbow, lonely etc and basically staring at a possible future of mine as a homophobic “ex-gay” (because, OF COURSE, there are no bigger homophobes than “ex-LGBTQ” people). And I don’t wanna be that. I’d prefer to be a lonely gay guy never EVER approached by anyone who wants to “traverse the void to reunite with his other half” than to become this self-hating close-minded self-deceiving bigot. Thank you Natalie, for setting my head… gay. Edit: some grammar mistakes, English is not my native language
I've had a similar experience. 24, bi, in the closet, no serious relationship with either a man or a woman. I've had moments where I believe I should just parrot around as a straight devout Christian in order to cease my own personal emptiness, but that would that really satisfy me? Or would it simply pacify me into a state of strict conformity and theater disguised as happiness and safety??? It doesn't help that with the Religious Right becoming more powerful and certain laws being up on the table, that it seems like a viable conclusion to come to...but at the end of the day it is not truthful nor a fact that that would lead me to happiness or self acceptance.
Whatever you chose never silence you guilt, shame, inadequacy - those are your best directions wherever you will go. The voice of conscience is the only way to know thy self.
@@opinion4755 I’m choosing to be true to myself - be gay as fuck. If it means that I’ll die alone - so be it. At least I’ll know some happiness instead of self-deceit and bigotry.
@@opinion4755 I think there is a difference between a healthy amount of self-criticism and allowing it to rule your life, which is what me and OP were talking about. For instance, why should I feel "guilt" and "shame" over my sexuality? That is one of the most illogical things to feel guilt over. What exactly am I feeling shame for? The shame wouldn't exist if society didn't make being LGBTQ+ seem morally reprehensible. I also don't think that negative emotions are more "true" indications of oneself than positive ones. That is a very insidious line of thought. There needs to be a balance because allowing just one or the other to indicate your life is just not healthy. Someone who thinks too little or too high of themselves is bound to never evolve.
@@ayanna6327 yes yes yes! Like you said balance is the key. I am talking about these emotions within boundaries of healthy functioning psyche were they signal need to adjust behavior and are nor obsessive nor compulsive. And I mention this because when you develop an addiction to cope in my personal experience you do it tune out the message you need to hear. For instance if you really need alcohol to interact social an manage anxiety you are ( i was) an alcoholic. Let’s see what the next video reveals.
Pls try meditation and research about pyschology watch pysch2go it really helped me watch philosphy of taoism it helped me to live my life way more peacful don't do that “You want to know the truth about drugs? You can only go one or two ways. You can go up, or you can go down. That’s it. After a certain point, though, no matter what you do, what you take, you don’t go anywhere, and that’s when you’ve got to sit down and face yourself.” - RuPaul
10 years ago, I would have been upset by the strawmanning of Christianity, but nowadays, that's just an accurate read of everything American christian leaders are saying (just condensed down for comedy's sake). Also "you know what you're saying is indefensible, so instead you defend your right to say it" is a GOD TIER breakdown.
@@leobarajas1468 yes because it's a big movie :D. I wasn't trying to say nattalie is wrong about anything just that anything could be called a strawman, and ultimately people who tend to use that term are unhelpful (see the other commenter :|)
“It’s just a simple matter of giving up the only thing that makes life worth living. How hard could that be?” As somebody who has struggled with “void”, that really hits home.
I am an abuser survivor and this video is scaring the shit out of me. I've struggled with emotional eating, but I've never been addicted to drugs or alcohol, but the thought that something could make my existence manageable, even pleasurable, is terrifying. I know I'd never want that feeling to stop. Christ.
@@greenworld966 I literally just had a conversation about that with my brother. I've read the testimonies of people who describe what it's like to be on "void". It's enough to make me never want to touch it. I'd like to think I'd be strong willed enough to do it once, if it were ever offered, just to know what it's like, and then never again. But there's a part of me that knows I can't be completely confident that I am that strong of will, so it's better I never do it and find out.
Last year when this came out my mom overheard me watching this and started a fight about how I’m obsessed with sexuality (?) (I’m queer), which ended with me crying. I never finished the video because it kept reminding me of the fight with my mom, but now I’m happy to say that I’m finally watching it to the end. Edit: I never expected this to get so many likes! It’s been a long time since that fight and I have a better relationship with my mom now. Now she more or less understands my sexuality and romantic preferences and doesn’t question them. It’s been a tough journey, but I’m doing well now :)
Ugh, I asked my mom if I could go to a trans rights protest and she also said “why am I obsessed with The Gays?!?11” and yhea, it really hurt, being a closeted queer, being told that people like me didn’t deserve rights. Hope your mom comes around, you deserve better.
Listen to your mom. She loves you and know better for you than a bunch of youtubers who will not be there when you find almost everything they told you about sexuality was false and leading to a sad life
I hope you realize how lame of a point that is. No one ever says that someone is "obsessed" with their sexuality when it's something related to straight people.
As a daughter of an addict, a trans girl, and a victim of abuse and trauma, this hit a little too close to home. I've had to entirely abstain from any sort of drugs because I fear with my family history that I would immediately fall down the rabbit hole. I hope things are better for you, and that they get better for me.
@@cthulhutheendless1587 we all dangle our modifiers here. this is a safe space, for modifiers of all shapes, sizes, and identities to dangle freely without judgement
This gave me a new understanding of a sibling’s lost fight with heroin. An understanding from the side I’ve never heard; the voices from within. I find new empathy for her in a place I never thought I could. These feelings are deeply universal. I really apologize if putting the weight of a stranger’s personal story onto your work makes you uncomfortable, but it’s something I feel inclined to share. Thank you, Natalie.
I learned a bit about heroin addiction and why people use...it's extremely sad and it's one of the few things that gives relieve to people who suffer very deeply. It can quiet the voices and give you a sense of warmth and safety. I am very sorry for your loss, hope you are doing ok.
Am an addict myself and I’d say it’s pretty accurate. All I can say is don’t try opioids if you don’t have to. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever dealt with and I’m someone who’s had to deal with the death of my husband and suicide of my best friend and those are both walks in the park compared to opioid addiction.
It made me think of my former partner who abandoned me for heroin and then died by drowning in a bathtub. That scene where she almost drowned was honestly hard to watch due to how similar it is to what happened to my partner. I agree, this video gave me a new perspective that is probably more similar to what he was going through than anything I could imagine on my own. Thanks, Natalie.
@@ilikemaline Opioids do not cause long term health degradation like most other commonly used 'immoral molecules', in a regulated (not black market fentanyl...) environment the only major health complication is the dependency. Once you develop a serious opioid addiction and/or dependency, statistically you will be dependent for the rest of your life. it takes literal years for the body to re-normalize after a long term, serious, opioid dependency. Both these concepts are why maintenance therapy has not only been best medical practice for over a century at this point, but also is the ONLY efficacious treatment for opioid addiction. Prohibition has turned a bunch of opium eaters into IV fentanyl addicts.
The part about many Christians being more concerned with the "compassion aesthetic" than genuine compassion couldn't be more true, especially among the "hate the sin, love the sinner" crowd.
The fact that this is only a three person production is nuts, so well made, and so depressingly spot on. Once pointed out though I couldn't stop noticing how similar they all sounded! Well worth the time invested
Why is no one talking about this video being part 2 of the "Left"? Justine tried to be ice cold mthfckr, but failed. She tried to make marxism fashionable, but the editor twisted the meaning of her book. It is also a prelude to the "Witchtrail" video: it shows why Justine/Contra leave the center. Justine tried to be friends with both the left and the right (Tabby and Tiffany), but ended up estranged from both. This lore is so entartaining even though Im not american, I watch this videos to feel comfortable cause my life is fckd up and I need a light.
I really like how Luci describes Void in the same way that Virginia describes God’s love. Also how Luci becomes Mommy once she gives the first dose, as God becomes the Father. You have to submit to it to get away from yourself.
Holy shit excellent read! I was wondering why she had Luci explicitly ask Justine to refer to her as mommy. Who knew religion and drug addiction could make such amazing parallels
@@csrjjsmp IDK, i just didn't try to interpret it right away, and just see where it was going then kinda forgot. But now that it was pointed out it's so obvious!
"It just means giving up the only thing that makes it feel like life is worth living" hit me in the gut as a recovering opiate addict quitting is brutal and ugly and hard. This video meant a lot especially when things are so bleak. Thank you and I hope you're doing well🖤
Recovering alcoholic here. I quit cold turkey and it was absolutely brutal. I couldn't sleep, was irritable as hell, and was overall just miserable. After a few weeks though my life drastically improved and the strangest thing happened; time slowed down. It's because I was present during ALL my waking hours and I could actually be productive and aware during the time I was "voiding" out. My parents, especially my dad still abuse alcohol daily and it's sad to see how irritable, miserable, and negative my dad is until he gets a few drinks in him. He is virtually intolerable to be around when he is sober and gets agitated at the most minor shit. Void really is a double edged sword
Considering Natalie has been struggling with the same, as well as people mocking her for it (actually for being a trans woman but they'll take whatever ammo they can get) it's no coincidence that it was so fitting
@@Deszigames I turned to alcohol a year or so after I kicked the pills (i just so desperately did not want to be present in my worl) and honestly it was harder to stop drinking than to stop using opiates. I am so proud of and I know how hard it is when those you love continue to abuse alcohol 🖤
@@curiosity6580 if it is for medical reason your stakes are completely different... opiates have there place and are so necessary for certain people. my mom has spinal damage and for her to function in this world she requires the use of strong pain medication. Its the perspective and context that determine the difference. My mom looks at her medication the way someone with diabetes sees their insulin or a person with depression sees their medication a necessary addition to their life not ideal but with knowledge that it will be a daily things. Addicts see them differently in a self injurious way. Please if pain management is going to improve your life dont deny yourself.
I personally admire Jackie’s bladder after all those damn liquids. You put in so much hard work to what you do Natalie. My mother was an addict in the 80s. Unable to deal with being a closeted lesbian in a family that just wanted a smart son and couldn’t handle a brilliant daughter. I lost her in 91. I think she would take a lot of solace in your work. I revisit your videos often. Sometimes for substance, sometimes for aesthetic. Thank you for your hard work and discussing hard subjects. You can try to bury your pain but it somehow always comes back to bite you in the ass.🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️Happy Pride❤️
I watch this like almost every night, I’m starting to memorize this whole thing. This is probably one of my favorite videos on the internet. There’s so much time and effort put into this I love the crystals and masks. The makeup and costumes. Everything. I really wish I could do stuff like this in my future. It’s just so cool. Definitely one of my favorite videos. You balance it being dark and philosophical with very light humour and it all pans out so well
Once again, Contrapoints triumphs in empathy. She makes me feel like my deep-seated existential feelings and anxieties are understood in a way no other creator does. And that she can speak an entire charismatic speech in the voice of her ideologically opponents! Incredible.
18:20 Playing Scheherazade when she says "God has healed the feminine in me" was a nice touch as it calls upon how Scheherazade told hundreds of stories in an attempt to preserve her life in a similar way to how Virginia tells herself all these stories to maintain her worldview (which for her, is her life).
@@kevinlechuga_ No problem, I’m a music student studying performance and so it’s just background knowledge for my career. Just make sure not to romanticize those who know about classical music or classical music in general, it makes them no more cultured than those who know about pop music :) There is a cultural bias in the west to uphold a bunch of German white dudes as “the greats” and there is a push to deconstruct that narrative in music education.
@@kevinlechuga_ don't sweat it. I only really learned about Rimsky-Korsakov when COVID started. I'm just a 39 year old black queer jock but was interested in classical piano because I'm going to purchase my first piano this summer because I'm to old play basketball with the straight bros and I wanted to play some anime songs I like. I don't know shit about fuck bb. 💕 I've just started to dig into a lot of different musical arts now that I have the income and time to do so.
“God created adam and eve, not adam and eve and kai and jaden and kaiden and lilith and ashton and skyler and.. rainbow.” Natalie writes better anti-trans jokes than the actual transphobes
I hope you're okay, Natalie. Whatever's going on in your life, please know that you have a community who cares about you. That might be a weird response to the deserved call-out for the queer left shitting all over each other, but now is as good a time as any to start being better at supporting our own.
“Im here to remind you that your pain is….optional” is such a real fucking statement when you are dealing with addictions and recovery. Im going through my own journey with this, you are a queen I watched every second of this video.
It is a hard statement. It is also kind of a lie. 😬 (Well, maybe a lie for everyone except the Buddhists.) To live is to feel pain, of some sort, at some times. If you can’t feel pain, you also can’t feel joy.
Stephanie Eller not even buddhists would agree. a buddhist saying is „pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.“ suffering occurs when pain is not accepted.
@@julesk1567 Buddhist here not a guru but life is to be not lived by extreme denial to our flesh Yeah I also left Christianity but can't deny my love for the Person and teachings of Jesus himself . but not go to extreme length of pleasure and hedonism but . walk what the Buddha calls the middle path . being a Buddhist means you experience the pain in life but you choose and work towards betterment and enlightenment and are called just like real Jesus followers are taught by him to do as well which is walk the path endure the struggle walk in peace find joy and ecstasy in your life and follow truth and be a skeptic and help your fellow creatures to the best of your abilities also a bit of an absurdist and our calling in life is to see the contradictions endure the pain and find our own meaning and even if it is to be mostly a lot of pain just like the myth of Sisyphus being cursed by Zeus to roll a boulder up a hill for all eternity only for it to inevitably fall to the bottom but to find peace in a chaotic mostly meaningless world we still fight that boulder and keep doing so because it is not going away.
@@stephanieeller2283 The fact that the statement is kind of a lie is part of what what Contra is trying to get across. Substances CAN take away your pain...for a while. The lie is that this doesn't make your pain optional...it just postpones it. What makes it really hard is having the stuff there and knowing you don't HAVE to feel the pain...today. Every day you are faced with that choice, so every addict thinks "I'll quit...tomorrow."
It’s true…but when science discovers a cure for mental sickness, will these same people take this cure? Or will they instead embrace their pain, because it ultimately gives them that attention and sympathy they long for? It’s a question no one will answer truthfully, and even if they did, their answer will just be your typical coping mechanism.
I watched this with my other queer housemates like it was the Gospel Part II come to screen. And then we sat in shocked silence for 60 minutes as every phrase recited by our fundie and Catholic parents and friends was hurled by Virginia. I know I've moved past the brainwashing and addiction to self-loathing that religious compulsion feeds on, but DAMN that was hard. You researched incredibly hard to make every word of hers something real and poisoned, that we all have faced. Sending love....this was a video you had to suffer so intensely to make. 🥺😭❤️
Virginia is very well observed and I find her a lot more interesting than the stereotype of a tradwife fundamentalist is usually presented. She’s found the salve for her own pain in faith and she expresses that faith through a very particular religious understanding. This keeps her from falling back into the pain she experienced in her old life whilst giving her the opportunity to build an identity independent of her carnal needs/wants/desires. But Virginia also needs others to follow those rules because she mistakes piety for holiness: the customs of religion and tradition for the mark in others of true faith in the Gospel. She’s very much at risk of swapping one set of sins she abhors for self-righteousness and legalism which are just as bad. I suspect Virginia would look on another cisgender lesbian woman with much more compassion than she can muster for Justine because she knows her own pain which caused her to look for an alternative identity outside of her sexuality. Justine’s pain is alien to her and Virginia cannot accept that a constructed identity - the very thing her own religious life is based in - can be equally as meaningful for someone else if it violates her understanding of embodied physicality. Her surprise and discomfort that Justine too identifies as a lesbian further reinforces this. However I think it’s clear that behind Virginia’s religious beliefs she also has a genuine spiritual faith and really does believe the Gospel that we are all sinners deserving death, that Christ died for our sins, that his blood atonement will save anyone who chooses to place their faith in him, that he rose from the grave in the flesh to conquer death, and that he is the prophesied Son of Man. Her spiritual raptures seem very clearly focused in that personal relationship. This is the saving grace which many of her religious fellow travellers lack despite their protestations to the contrary. 1 Corinthians is normally the passage the Virginia’s of the world bring up when they want to argue against toleration of homosexuality or transgenderism. They’re right that the Bible does view homosexual intercourse as sinful along with pretty much everything else humankind has a natural predisposition towards - including heterosexual intercourse outside of monogamous marriage. And Jesus raised the stakes compared to the Mosaic Law by pointing out that the desire to sin is the sin itself in God’s eyes. The Biblical assessment of human nature is brutal and damning: that all sin and fall short of the glory of God and that none can save themselves. Paul was making a very serious point about how those saved in Christ no longer face this condemnation under the law, but that being free they shouldn’t look on that as a license to do whatever they desire because that has consequences both here and now in the physical world and in the development of a personal relationship with Christ. That they should think through the consequences of their desires before acting rather than being mastered by them, and thus do their best to live sanctifying lives. The strand of Christian doctrine Virginia follows appears to be Dominionist - that the purpose of the Church is to establish a Godly kingdom on Earth. The idea that America is somehow a modern-day Israel is often mixed with that and that as a sinful nation it will be under judgement for those sins. There are sound Biblical arguments that any nation which revels in sin will indeed suffer for doing so but that’s the law of cause and effect not part of some special covent given to a gentile nation as a basis for manifest destiny. Rather than being salt and light (ie Ambassadors witnessing to the power of Christ to redeem) those who follow this line of thinking set themselves up as judges and rulers trying to force others to salvation through pious behaviour regardless of whether or not they possess a saving faith. That is an utterly incoherent proposition. Virginia doesn’t look on Justine as a poor sinner like herself to be saved because I suspect she no longer sees herself as a sinner. She was a sinner and that’s why she needed to be saved, but now she’s saved sinning is something other people do because they don’t follow the rules and she does. After all, she no longer practices homosexuality so clearly she has overcome - or if we are being generous, she believes the power of the Holy Spirit has overcome - her sinful nature. Forgetting her own filthiness she has no interest in meeting Justine as an equal and because of that she can’t offer Justine compassion. Rather than seeing a wounded person in need of love, Virginia sees an enemy to be overcome. All Virginia achieves is to further entrench Justine in her own opinion that the Gospel isn’t something for her and indeed is something created by bigoted people to make the hate this world expresses towards gender and sexual non-conformity all the more oppressive. So Justine is left in her own spiral of pain, looking to remedies of the flesh for an inner ache which is fundamentally spiritual, losing herself in a Faustian bargain where Void anaesthetises her to her pain but robs her of everything which might give her life positive meaning. It grieves my soul that so many people are not just lost but actively driven away from the Gospel by supposedly devout Christians who would rather judge them than show them compassion. They remind me of the Pharisees whom Jesus called White-Washed Tombs, holy on the outside but corrupt within. Only Natalie can say for sure if Virginia is intended to be one of their number but I feel she’s written and performed in such a way that she does not have to be and that she should therefore be given the benefit of the doubt. Will she get over herself in the sequel and be the force for good she clearly wants to be? I really hope so.
So. I am a gay recovering meth addict. This episode was everything I can say about addiction. And the moment when She took the void. Crap. My mind just went into. Idk. I’ve been there. Not knowing life and how to move on and suddenly just a drop makes you feel the best you have ever been. That’s the appeal. So seeing a moment like that, after having been through that and every moment after, I can say, This was worth the wait. 10/10 Absolutely stunning.
What hit me was the perfectly expressed depression, especially when it was just her alone smoking in the bathtub. That's what it was like for me when I was still a deeply closeted trans man. It's what it's like for my husband right now dealing with PTSD. Natalie really hit some uncomfortable truths right on point. Hope you're doing well. 😊
Former Q follower here. I have already deleted this comment once because of anxiety. Just want to say that your ability to conceptualize and articulate both sides is incredible and I wish we saw more people that had this level of understanding for both sides. Also have to mention the production quality. I’ve paid for many movies that can’t hold a candle to your videos. You are doing something special whether you realize it or not.
Wow... people are going to think the blonde girl is a strawwoman, but she is actually so spot-on to someone I know it terrifies me to think that's a whole archetype. Then again, this is also a great adaptation of Christian Woman by Type O Negative. I needed this so thank you.
"You got a guy? A semen guy?" "That's just most guys" The material is really tough in this video but the jokes are so well fucking done. As every topic gets darker the humour just gets better at balancing it all out. A big fan
As a conversion therapy survivor i am very grateful for this video. Only this year i actually started going to therapy and i can see some major improvements in my daily life and patterns of thinking. But I'm still unsure what's it going to take to actually heal that wound and learn how to live / cope with the shame.
I think healing and learning to live with these painful past experiences are the same thing. Traumatizing past experiences do not go away, but they will occupy relatively less space in our life once we address the patterns of thinking they have lead too and once we enrich our life with other things. Sounds like that is exactly what you are doing and you are doing it very well. Expecting to get rid of the pain is perhaps something to let go off as an end goal to achieve. Ideologies that promise a painless life are based on delusion, and chemically induced absence of pain is also clearly not the answer. Suffering is just a part of it, we should not let suffering take over our life, and the same counts for attempting to numb suffering. Anyway, I admire you and wish you all the best!!!
I hope you understand now that the Bible doesn't condemn loving same-sex relationships, and it's not God who's obsessed with people's genitals and private consensual sex. Spending all your time thinking about whether other people are having proper sex is a mental health problem, like OCD. It's not biblical.
@@Sarcasticron Yes, the Bible has done worse things than this actually. Aside from the constant gaslighting Christians have done to minorities and numerous warcrimes, the Bible is nothing more but a sandman’s tale in which people occasionally cherrypick from when it benefits their narrative.
@@Sarcasticron I'm sure you mean well, but isn't it an issue with the wording that the bible gets referenced in support of homophobia? Not that it's absolutely correct to do so, but for example, the whole man lying with man bit has been put into a homophobic context numerous times. I wouldn't call the bible inherently homophobic, but you have to acknowledge it specifically gets used as an authoritative tool to push ignorance and trauma. For something that's "not biblical," it's something that has been interpreted as biblical by others since before we were born. To me it makes sense to blame both the individual and their instruction (specific religious teachings/bible) rather than just the individual. The bible has gone though many edits, most minor some controversial, so there was and is plenty of opportunities to change the wording to not sound homophobic if they cared. That's a very simple solution assuming you understand it's "proper" interpretation. Then there'd be no argument about proper interpretation and individuals couldn't cite it in favor of homophobia. Plenty of great religious people/organizations/books/etc. out there too, I don't mean to be a negative Nancy 🌈
I have found that trauma is less about healing a sound, finding a cure, fixing the broken. We can learn better ways of dealing with the worst if it, learn to live with what we can't change, but most of all accept who we are now such that we can learn to love that person. Learning to love yourself is a difficult and dark path. Sometimes a start is seeing the person you are to those that love you. Over time I have learner to like the person that I am now... Perhaps I'll learn to love her in the future....
I'm so happy she brought Jackie back. Loved that character in the Transtrender video. She seems like a thoroughly insuferable person to be around in real life....but as a character? She's scenery chewing gold. I love her entire vibe. I also love how subtly different all three characters' accents are. Justine has that quintessential hyper educated east coast liberal tone. Jackie sounds like a Real Houswives character from Queens whose mantra in life is "Rosé All Day." And Virginia has a certain cringey midwestern earnestness. Natalie's videos have so many amazing elements that it's sometimes easy to overlook just what a great actor she is....in terms of voice, body language, facial expression, all of it...
"You know that what you're saying is indefensible so instead of saying it outright, you just talk about your freedom to say it." So well put. Thanks for putting into words a feeling I have when listening to many podcasts and conversations about gender, identity, CRT, etc. :)
GOD I love this. Like it’s not just the dialogue. The body language of each character is so distinct. It’s just SO well done. Natalie doesn’t just set up caricatures to knock them down. They’re annoying in a real way and well-rounded in a real way. (And totally dumb in varying degrees in a real way 😂.)
Hey Natalie, I know you're probably not gonna read this, but this video out of all the videos you've made really hit me. I'm a bisexual trans man who grew up homeschooled in Christian fundamentalism. After being kicked out multiple times, struggling through multiple addictions, becoming homeless, and dealing with mental and physical health problems, I've been so desperate I've almost turned back to the fundamentalist community I grew up. I remember when my grandma gave me all these books by "ex-gays", when my dad threatened to send me to conversion therapy, when I lost all my friends after being outed. Something in this video just struck me and I'm only 20 minutes into it but already all these thoughts and memories shoved deep down have been triggered. When I was a child, I used to lie awake at night, hallucinating demons who were coming to take me to hell for being attracted to the girls at church. I would pray and shout and yell and scream at God for hours, begging him to take away my "sinful desires". I tried so, so hard to repress myself, that now, I don't even know who I am. I only survive day by day, trying to find a stable place to sleep and some food to eat. Thanks to this video, I'm doing some searching of the self at 12 am while mentally preparing to go to church with my family so they will let me stay with them until I get back onto my feet. I know this seems like a long, pointless rant, but all I'm trying to say is this really stirred up some shit in my mind and its forcing me to think about things I wanted to forget.
Hey 👋, you should look into some LGBTQ organizations in your state to see if they can offer any refuge. I don’t think it’s a good idea to go back home because you’d end up getting back on your feet in a hostile community. If you’re between a rock in hard place, you should exercise your best judgement when dealing with this really tough decision. If you do end up going back into that poor environment don’t give up hope for a better future, take care of yourself. Listen to relaxing music, interact via discord or reddit, read some good books. Religious communities go after the moods of their victims through many different avenues. I wish you good luck!
Hey man, there are people out there that will love you for who you are. You don't have to stay with your abusive and controlling family. Please believe me, you are going up be ok without them.
there is so much out there for you, it won't be easy. everyday will be hard but you can get out of your situation if you push yourself. i relate a lot to your story and just know you're not alone. life is what you make it to a certain extent. go after what you want in this life while you still are able.
thank you for suckering me into accidentally watching an artistic and philosophical masterpiece that made me engage with uncomfortable topics. An unexpected improvement to my mind and person, while I was literally just looking for some light entertainment to put up in the background. Just gotta love the internet, with creators like you on it.
I really see Mother Lucy as the inner dialogue of an addict. “I will stay here and remind you that your pain is optional: I see someone who is sad, and that’s pathetic” absolutely hit me to my core. These thoughts are so consuming and persistent, they really are like an outer influence shoving a very convincing argument in your head. When you’re already a “parched land” it doesn’t take very much push at all. Sometimes it only takes 10 minutes, like the conversation here, and every time I’m also surprised with myself how little it took to push me over the edge. The dark fingernails are such an important detail too. I always know I’m slipping when my nails and hands are constantly dirty, and it can also be interpreted as slowly dying while still alive, as it feels when you’re sucked further into the cyclical hell that is addiction. I’m too touched by this video. While I’ve been clean for 6 years, the symbolism and accuracy and nuances Natalie brought to play still shook me to my core. Thank you so much for your work. ♥︎
i still don't know how to argue against it. everything that stops me totally destroying myself is feeling bad for the effect on other ppl & financial limits. if someone is in bad physical pain, we expect that their pain should be stopped. but if you are in equally bad pain mentally & no other options other than "the void" stop it, you're supposed to just stay there in pain forever. how do i convince myself that's a good choice? choose pain over relief, over and over again... it's so so hard. i look at anyone long term clean like some kind of superhero bc they can constantly make that choice, after experiencing the pain relief. i remember someone saying "addiction is the only illness where you feel better recovered than you did before you got sick" ofc that's not true for everyone, but i would maybe. just titanium strength. congrats x
@@amagicallaura I don’t who you are but we can absolutely talk to each other anywhere like discord or something. I’m also an addict and maybe we could have a meaningful and meaningless conversation about it and learn something and maybe help each other, idk. I haven’t slept in like 2 days pls don’t judge my empathetic impulsivity 😭
The short conversation about having desire vs acting on it is the main talking point in Muslim circles, and as someone who grew up Muslim and LGBTQ, it really hit me. This whole video really struck a chord in me.
@@joelbedulla4 I was told that being queer was a test that God had set for us and that we weren't supposed to act on it. It's incredibly cruel when you're told that the only way for you to gain God's favor is to die alone and unhappy.
Yeah, as a Queer ex-Muslim, I personally think it gets unbearable of a burden very quickly and I'm like borderline aro/ace! I can't imagine being horny all the time or needing a partner and repressing that much. It really isn't healthy.
I'm glad Natalie makes a point not to just reaffirm the things most leftists already believe. She didn't make this video just to say "Christians bad" or "conservatives bad," this video asks us to reflect on the hunger in ourselves. Christians, especially the ones who used to be addicts, are often the people who speak the loudest about the hunger, so I think it makes a lot of sense to frame the debate how she did. Still, it's honestly such a bold choice to have the Christian be the one to challenge the hunger since so many queer people (Natalie's main audience) have been so hurt by Christianity and the Christians in their lives. She really has a talent for navigating complex issues like this and empathizing with (and even learning from) problematic people's points of view without endorsing them.
You could even read the Christian's embrace of faith as a different from of "void." Clinging desperately to something to try making a difficult situation manageable.
I think that's part of the point, that Justine and Virginia are not so unalike. They both feel internalized shame and fill their longing for happiness and belonging with different, yet both destructive in different ways, coping mechanisms.
This shows how two different people can watch the same thing and take two totally different meanings from it. I think that’s a good thing. We’re you saw a Christian challenging the “ hunger”. I saw it as saying Christian’s are just like all the other people hungering and using Christianity to fill that hunger. It’s good for different people to be able to take away different perspectives on things.
I know a dude from the high school that was nicknamed "The Hunger" after getting kicked out of an all-you-can-eat buffet for eating too much food. I don't know what that has to do with the video, but looking forward to watching it.
@@jp9707 I'm pretty sure they operate like an "unlimited" internet or phone plan. They advertise it that way thinking no one will go past a limit because it's "unreasonable". Then someone goes past the limit and bye bye profit lol
@@KaliBeatsYoSoyAquel the petty part of me wants to try the buffet thing just so i could draw Golden Corral into expensive, frivolous litigation over what constitutes "all you can eat". I'd buy tv slots, televise it, stream it. This is why I should win the lottery
Shout out to my best boy Dan, who decided he needed one last drop and succumbed to The Void two weeks ago. I almost did years ago, so I know that place. Solidarity with everyone here who is struggling or knows someone who is or has. 🖤
@@edwinrollins142 omg I’m so sorry. I lost my dog a week ago and that was devastating to me, but I’ve never really lost any person I’ve known in person. That said, I had this friend named David who I had known since was 13 and I just turned 37 so I knew him up until half a year ago. He was told not to drink anymore because his mom found in bed drenched in blood because he was puking up blood. The last text I got from him, which is from last April, he said he had found sound of his dads norco’s which is an opioid and I could also tell he was drinking. He said he wanted to kill himself also but he always said stuff like that. My guess would be he died from just ingesting that stuff because he was def not supposed to be drinking, let alone mixing downers. He was kind of a mean guy but I understood him. He kind of was my dark side except he only had one side whereas I have like 2 or more. I really hate not knowing what exactly happened but we talked daily and I looked for him in the basketball forums he posted in and he stopped the same night I last talked to him. I know in real life it must be worse though. You’re doing the right thing by talking about it. I tend to bottle everything up and it’s very bad. Much love to you and Dan’s family and loved ones. I’m Sparklehorse1985 on discord if you ever need someone to talk to
I myself am also on methadone because I used to be heroin addict when I was with this girl who was kinda like Amber Heard if you followed the Johnny Depp trial. Her name was Amber too but yeah her mom saw I wanted out and decided to see if they could get me hooked on heroin as a way of keeping me dependent on them.
A friend of mine died this year. We used to sit together every time that was a new video of you to watch and talk about. I loved how u described the void.. because it was his own.. how when he wanted to quiet he told me ok I will give up of the one thing that make life bearable He would had loved the video and saw soo much of himself. Would not had saved him, but would had bring one nice day with him sharing this experience Thanks
I hope you're doing alright. I'm so sorry for your loss, it never gets less painful to lose someone we love. But the pain does ebb away, it will become better or it will become easier. I hope it does for you, I wish you all the love you can have. Godspeed, my friend.
I have a chronic joint and muscle condition in my legs that affects my ability to walk. One day earlier this year I was in so much pain that even sitting down hurt no matter how I positioned myself. I had to be sent home from school early because I couldn't walk anywhere without feeling like crying. When I got home going up and down the stairs felt like literal torture, but I finally got some relief in lying down on my bed. When I got to bed I checked my phone and this video came up on my UA-cam feed. Ended up spending the whole day watching a wonderful channel I'd never heard of before then. Turned an otherwise shitty painful day into a nice memory. Thanks for that
I love the juxtaposition of intellectual confidence and sense of superiority (somewhat justified) in public debate, and then the internal loneliness, shame and despair in private. It was a beautiful, both visually and philosophically, depiction of addiction. The incredible amount of work that must of went into this production is mind melting. I often found myself feeling guilty for only agreeing with the leftist character in the initial skit, despite the nonsensical caricatures across the room. A simply gorgeous video, this woman is one of the most creative and thought provoking creators in media.
Hey Natalie, I don't know if you'll read this but this has really helped me. Am processing a break up at the moment and still every saturday I get rat-arsed blind drunk. Don't drink on the other days but I literally have no stop button and your video helped put into words how I'm feeling and I'm pretty hungover tbh but thanks you're amazing
Amen indeed. And this video in particular. I've rewatched all of Contra's old videos....some many times. But I've seen _this_ one like 5 times since it came out. Something about it is deeply comforting in a strange way. It's a bit ASMR in a way. I like how long it is....it's something I can put on while drifting between awake and asleep.
@@avedic I feel the same way. This video and envy are always on my recommended page because I watch them so much. Also, this video made me go back and rewatch her transtrenders video (which was the first one I ever saw) because it has the same format and multiple recurring characters, and it’s amazing to see how her videos are constantly improving in the way they’re filmed and edited. I didn’t notice the first time I watched it that the transtrenders video didn’t include a wide shot of all three characters until i saw it in the hunger
This is by far my favorite contrapoints piece (and i love all her content just to be clear). I come back here every once in a while cause i find it comforts me. I hope she continues the story someday. It makes me feel so seen and sad also, in a way that is hard to explain. It's like when you're about to cry and someone hugs you, you can't contain yourself you just let go in the most human way possible. ❤
oh my god... I've never seen such an accurate, such an EXACT depiction of what my addiction feels like.that last scene- the regret and desperation, the resolve to stop, time and time and time again, the gnawing, unshakeable urge... I wont disclose what the addiction is but its bad. its bad. even if this is all fiction, I feel a little less alone and a little more understood. thank you.
Natalie shared on her instagram that she struggled badly with addiction as well. I'm not sure if it was benzodiazepines ( i went to check but couldn't find the post) or some kind of opiates, so I'm not surprised she depicted this so perfectly.
A year later and I'm still catching things I never noticed before. Like at 19:28 where Virginia is saying how she felt at her lowest - and it shows her in the different seats of the characters. Justine: alone, Jackie: an addict, and Virginia: lost. It's like a subtle revealing of each character's Achilles heel, and how they've found themselves on the path they are on. A lot of these little symbolisms are so easy to miss but noticing it really makes you appreciate how much thought and creative detail she put into this ❤ Edit: Loneliness, Addiction, Being Lost - All these things could be seen as, well... The Hunger! So cool that towards the end of the debate Justine and Virginia acknowledge that "we all feel the hunger" and that they actually do deeply relate to each other because of these empty holes in their lives. There are moments that they come so close to actual compassion and understanding of each other, like when Justine talls about love. But it's like their own pride, self-loathing, and wounds from their upbringing, repels them away from a genuine moment of empathy and care for one another. As one of the many queer people with Christian upbringing trauma, this video has helped so so much in unpacking my experience. And the realizations I've had through watching these characters really speaks to how complex they are - beyond just simple parodies that most people fall into doing. It's really inspiring honestly.
casual reminder that there’s a hunger in your soul no pleasure of the flesh can satisfy
Wyd
Omg
Notice me mommy
SO HAPPY YOU ARE BACK!!! 🥺🥰❤️🔥❤️🔥
I can try
I don’t agree with Jackie politically, however getting drunk in the corner and making unhelpful comments is a mood and something I fully identify with
I do agree with Jackie politically, since we're sharing
Jackie is a delight. She would be insufferable in real life, but she is just over the top enough in her aesthetics to balance being a "dumb-dumb", as a charming satire. 🥰
100% and doubly so as a male.
I def agree with Jackie’s hair and makeup, nails, wardrobe, and constant snacking tho
Wine parent's sibling
The pattern of the conservative lady being given the most time to talk and yet talks the most about being silenced is brilliant.
Am I bEiNg CaNcElLeD?!!?
-Conservatives
Also the background swelling of music only for the conservative, appropriate to reflect a particular emotional response.. this video is a fucking masterpiece 🙌🏻🙌🏻 Edit: I just remembered that helicopter movie shoot P45 did after getting Covid, with the same orchestral music.. absolute madness.
Its funny when they claim they are being canceled or censored but they always cry about removing things "woke" from media.
@@Praisethesunson 2 seconds later: I'M GETTING CANCELLED! THEY'RE GANGING UP ON ME!
Here is the pattern - the left silence themselves, the right keeps talking, then the left demands that the right also silence themselves, the right talks about being silenced, the left silence themselves again, then the right says something that offends again
I just love that the statue from "Shame" is covered and placed behind the Christian lady. Highlighting her repressed feelings. Just the little things Natalie does.
her attention to detail is unmatched
This is my MCU
@@brntmoondoll4jaw The ink stained fingers are a beautiful, creepy touch, too.
It's thinly veiled.
I saw that, too! So good.
Is there a better summation of how people dismiss the struggles of addicts than "all I have to do is give up the one thing that makes my life feel worth living"? Perfection
As someone who was heavily dependent on a variety of illegally obtained prescription drugs from March 2022 to March of this year, boy is this true. I've not touched any of these drugs since this March, and can't shake the feeling that people will assume, and have assumed, that this is because of some sort of mythical 'willpower' I've magically developed, as opposed to simply being lucky enough that I have now been put on the right meds, and given the right therapist, so that I'm no longer getting an average of 2 hours' sleep per week (whenever I wasn't on drugs) and spending every waking moment so tormented by recurring anxious and depressive thoughts and constant traumatic flashbacks that I was lowkey wanting to unalive myself. Not using those drugs is just fundamentally easier now that my life actually feels worth living without them. If my life were still as it were until I was hospitalised earlier this year with panic attacks, drug withdrawal and severe sleep deprivation, which triggered the intervention and securing of support I'd desperately needed for years, I could easily still be on those drugs to this day, as anything was better than my life felt while sober. I haven't become a 'better person', as people lucky enough not to struggle with addiction of that sort of trauma often seem to pontificate; I was just fucking fortunate to get out of it, and it's just sad that too many other people weren't afforded these chances and couldn't get out. Sorry for the rant.
I'm a 50yo, cis, rural white guy so allow me to talk about one of the less important parts of this video. I remember movies from the 50's and 60's where having a actor on stage interacting with their self as a different character was the very height of movie magic. Studios were impressive if they pulled this off. The fact that a small group of really talented people can pull this off seamlessly and convincingly on a youtube channel kind of blows me away. Now back to liking the more important points and stories everyone else is making in these comments. This is such a nice community and Natalie Wynn is a fucking national treasure.
I love this comment jamison!!! hope you’re having a nice day :)
last name checks out! ur a king dude 💪
I remember this technique being marketed as ground breaking in the 90s, well I am from the 3rd world country so we get it very late.
Also coming from a 3rd world country, and also still amazed every time I see Natalie (or anyone else) pull this technique off heh
42 year old cis white dude here agrees 👍👍👍
Jackie runs the BEST podcast. she’s bringing TRUTH to the masses. anyone denying this is part of the cancel culture sexual anarchists. let THAT sink in.
I'll drink to that and FREEDOM
I can't BELIEVE Spotify made Jackie pull episodes where she said the n word. She was JOKING. People just can't take jokes anymore smgdmfh
I did and now it's washing all my dishes without my consent, please send help. ; - ;
The poor sink has been waiting at the door for hours, can someone PLEASE let it in???
@@StargazerSkyscraper THIS IS A GOLDEN PUN.
"I will stay right here, and I will remind you every minute for hundreds of consecutive minutes, that your pain is optional."
Nothing has ever so perfectly summarized my experience of addiction. Utterly love your writing.
Fuck, this describes the deepest, darkest part of my Alcoholism.
It has been the cheapest thing to help make my anxious, undiagnosed AuDHD ass feel normal until I got my meds. Now I drink because it's still something I love, despite how therapy helps along with my medication.
I know she's only comic relief, but Jackie as a character is so fascinating. Her childish view of freedom that somehow coexist with her desire for a political strongman to take control, her deep incuriosity and lack of stakes and values coupled with neurotic fear of anything foreign. So compelling. She may be very satirized and comical (and inspired by real life figures 😉), but mannn I would pay to witness a deep dive to Jackie's "hunger" the way this video is for Justine!
Huh. Interesting thought. I think her positions are all shallow - she’s not actually attached to any of them and none of them have any real foundation. She can’t deep dive into them because she’s just parroting someone else’s ideas. But clearly she has a hunger, even if it is totally unacknowledged. What might it be? That WOULD be interesting.
It would also be a little sad to lose an entertainingly two-dimensional character. 😜 Like Jackie’s ideas, I prefer her to stay unexamined!
o.o
I mean, she's literally just averageamerican.jpeg. There's a reason she was literally in the center between letting people who aren't white, christian conservatives exist in peace and full blown theocracy.
She's a parody of Dave Rubin. His shtick is exactly that nonsense.
Yes, I agree also Jackie is hotter...is that wrong???? I think that's wrong??? but Jackie is hotter tho. Seriously tho belive if you will just be kind tho. Also viod would go great in coffee hot not iced cold coffee tastes like sad.
I remember seeing a TED Talk, back when those were actually fairly reputable, about how addiction is as much about social dependency as it is chemical. The people most vulnerable to addiction are often very socially isolated, and feel like they have no one to share their burdens with. They feel fundamentally disconnected from society, and so seek to replace that connection with substances or self-destructive behavior. An alcoholic referring to the bottle as their best friend may be more right than even they realize. The comfort that the substance provides becomes a very real simulation of the comfort of another person, and it gets even more dangerous if the user finds themselves in a community of other addicts, as they find double-reinforcement of their desire for connection and community, both through the substance and the other users.
The most effective way to treat addiction, therefore, is with community care and resocialization. We need to embrace people with addiction, and let them know that they are loved. It's no wonder that many people going through recovery find shelter in religion, but if anything I think that just proves that the secular world needs to embrace love and humanism more than ever. If the most loving and supportive community the average person can find is a pseudo-cannibalistic death cult, then what does that say about the rest of us?!
Dear gosh this was insightful! Thank you for sharing your thoughts 💙
Very well put. I was in that exact circumstance, doing addictive drugs with people who I thought were the only people who cared about me and who I valued more than family. It spiralled out of control, and it took a miracle to get out of it. (Basically, a fortunate chance to make other social connections.) Many others aren't that lucky.
This is wonderful. Perhaps this is one of Dr. Gabor Maté's talks on addiction?
wow I love this
+
"A bunch of wounded people wounding each other." That's really spot on. Sometimes I really feel that it's the same on Native Twitter and other online indigenous communities. A bunch of oppressed, traumatized people just fighting for scraps amoungst ourselves instead of fighting against the forces that have crushed us.
Oppression and trauma are optional
.
The video on Envy would play a big part of a lot of that. There are some really damaged people out there who can only feel happy by trying to destroy someone else.
That quote really got to me too
Makes sense. I dont go on twitter anymore, and I don’t try to interact with indigenous communities anymore because I’m sick of being called a half-breed. Lol. My grandma is Lumbee “Indian” who DNA tested Congolese (Lumbee are/ were multiracial/cultural and because of this still arent even recognized federally even though theyve been fighting for years) This is ironic because the few times I’ve been able to press my Grandma about this kind of hard-topic stuff… she isn’t mad at the right people. 0 clue where to direct her anger. I dont even think she’s angry? She blames “the blacks” for stuff that had nothing to do with black people… shit, she IS “black people”. Its just really sad and confusing. I love my Grandma but her childhood/upbringing was tough and really did a number on her.
God, rewatching Contra is always worthwhile.
Seeing the ways in which Justine follows much the same path Virginia did. Virginia found a daddy to discipline her and assuage her shame and Justine found a mommy to give her comfort and affection. Both couldn’t find that connection in other relationships so they found another, easier source. One that helps but imprisons. One that robs them of themself.
She's called Natalie :)
@@thereisanamegoingon7267 The comment is referring to the character in the video called Justine.
Yes and both mommy and daddy cast shame for having pain. Shame is the central pain, the first pain Justine admits to, as well as the ongoing plight for Virginia
They should explore each other's bodies
I'm kinda hooked on her.
Jackie only visibly reacting to "gained weight" among all of the other sins -- perfect
Siii
This isn't even a UA-cam video, this is straight up a short film about drugs and drug addiction. Natalie should absolutely consider just becoming a director if she can make something as unique as this within the confines of a BreadTube video essay.
There are short films on UA-cam what are you on about lol
@@Robersora I mean yeah but like those weren't made for the purpose of being "UA-cam videos" by "UA-camrs", if you know what I mean. This is special because this is someone using the _format_ of a UA-cam video essay to create a short film.
I suspect this wanted to be a compliment, but I think you are underestimating the importance of UA-cam videos at this point
I also guess that being a director AND actress, editor, musician, makeup artist, etc. leads to a higher self expression and possibly satisfaction (but teamwork is good to, to each their own)
She's already a director (and an actress, script writer, producer...). UA-cam just happens to be her medium, and will remain so for the foreseeable future (which is probably for the best, I don't see any incentive for her to go any other route right now unless a huge, massive opportunity with full artistic and political freedom is thrown her way).
@Bingo You do realize you're only furthering the video's point by displaying this transphobia here, right?
I forgot how intoxicating self-flagellation can be. You've really cracked into what makes fashy evangelicals tick, how they're obsessed with their own pain and self denial and talk themselves into believing that their particular form of hatred is actually loving. It's really self reinforcing.
As a consumer of anti fungal hedgehog medication. I agree.
it's really scary to think I could have been one of those people. It's not love. It's love in the sense that an abuser loves you. you have no agency except for what isn't specified. The escapism that religion provides can be a damaging addiction in it's own right. The guilt you feel from never being pious enough far outweighs the peace one may feel for a vague reassurance of an afterlife.
@@Kimmie6772 I couldn’t help but think of Virginia’s words as being like an abusive codependent relationships, yeah
It struck me immediately that "Lucy"'s rhetoric was eerily similar to Virginia's. A sort of incessant preying on a sense of lack, insisting that you are not whole and can only be made so through what they're peddling. Both in an elaborate and sinister bid to claim your soul for their own gratification.
And Justine is, theoretically, a centrist. Conservative when compared to, say, Tabby, but still more liberal than Tiffany and WAY more than Virginia. There's... Layers to that. Serious LAYERS. The "all goes, whatever feels good. Choose not to be sad" of Mother Void vs Dad's™ obsession with "following rules", always doing as He says - very Dionysic and Apollin contrast. But completely warped.
They're both fucked, like a broken mirror, cutting everyone around them while reflecting bits of one another.
Justine says Virginia is imoderate with her passions-but she herself is imoderate. Imoderate her misery. It's literally what Hype and Void mean. One is euphoria, the other is emptiness. It's gorging yourself until you feel sick against slowly emaciating, filling with nothing.
.... The more I think about the text and the symbols the deeper it gets. Fucking hell- Natalie is a mad genius
THIS!!
Virginia switched her addiction to Christ.
would love to like this comment but ur sitting pretty at 666 likes, so ill settle for commenting that i agree and didnt even realize that part!
This comment 🥺
“If God exists, im sure His mind is bigger than yours and with or without your approval, I will always be who I am.” This hits hard and I cried a little ngl. Great video Natalie. ❤️
As a progressive Christian, it was such a pain to watch this. I get it completely that Virginia finds so much joy in God, but it saddens me that she thinks that she has to let go of her sexuality to experience that. This quote hit hard indeed: God's mind is infinitely bigger!
As the victim of Christian abuse so bad it literally gave me PTSD, that line made me tear up as well.
@@tomvanlieshout5634 if you're progressive why even be a Christian? I'm genuinely curious?
@@Jeremy-wp4yh not to answer for Tom but there is so, so much beyond American evangelical Christianity. Many/most Christians worldwide don't really even recognize them as part of the universal church body, not to flame that fire too much but it's important to place them in their proper context. Culture wars are not the focus of Christianity, Christ is. Love is the focus. People are the focus. But I don't blame you or anyone else one for assuming it's about culture! That's what I used to think as well
@@withelisa Christianity is based on the Bible. And that's the end all. Any new ageism or progressive forms are just diluted more digestable forms of religion that people have created to suit their lives eg. "God is Grey" on youtube. So it makes no sense why people would Want to half-commit to something they're not ready for.
I don’t even know if you’ll read this, Natalie, but this is exactly what I’ve experienced as a result of being a queer trans student on a religious college campus. A person like Virginia was invited to our campus to talk to us, and I didn’t know what to do. I was super upset and I don’t know what to do with my own religious faith because of the way people have used the words of this faith against me. Thank you so much for giving me a way to explain the way I’m treated to my parents and friends.
Hey, just commenting to say that I wish you the best. I can understand what you're going through to a degree. (Neurodivergent and ace, not the same I know, but still) I myself am still religious, but I think it's important to not let people like me or these Virginia esque people tell you or bully you into what to decide. If you decide to step away from faith, that does not make you a monster. If you decide keep your faith, then you don't have to change who you are for that. Religious or not, for god or not for god, what purpose does learning stuff about life have if it's not really *you* who's learning it.
Sorry if I misinterpreted your comment btw 😅
I am not a member of a minority which is attacked in Christian communities. But I can relate to this a lot. I keep my faith to my self but I now feel as if I am supporting hateful people by just being Christian. It scares me how much I might get judged by being Christian. I want to study Islam at university, but I feel as if the academics will judge me or think I have bias by being Christian. I didn’t even tell my atheist friend because I was scared of being called stupid.
@@obscuredictionary3263 Hey now, there are plenty of christian scientists and also plenty of christians made scientific discoveries in the past. There are also plenty of loving christians, such as pastor fred rogers. If anyone calls you bigoted or stupid remind them of these facts. Also, it is possible to study a subject while disagreeing with the meat of the subject. As long as you try to be concious of your bias it should be fine
@@obscuredictionary3263 You could explore getting involved in more inclusive Christian organizations like Unitarians.
@@glendisshiko8182 Your comment made me smile, thank you. It also encouraged me to lookup more about the religious beliefs of Fred Rogers.
I like the fact that Justine isn’t trying to respond with the language Virginia uses because it will inevitably enable the Christian dialectic. Justine is trying to look beyond what is presented to her - the superficially enlightened woman. She sees Virginia for what she is in fact - a person addicted to being commanded
oof
True that:
"In all of the essentials of life we are alone, and you cannot avoid being your own jailer by making yourself someone else's prisoner."
Elie Wiesel [Nobel laureate and Holocaust survivor]
more like addicted to substances and sex and therefore she feels like she needs an authority to stop her from doing that
I don't see it so much as a literal addiction to authority so much as a paradigm through which someone perseveres to counteract their literal addictions. But an interesting observation.
@@kalejuice5701 my thoughts exactly
No matter how long we have to wait for the sequel, it will be worth it. I hope you're doing ok and know that you are loved by this community.
Hear hear 😃
She’s making videos about once a year nowadays. Who knows what she’s doing in her life at the moment.
Amen to that lol! I find that the UA-camrs who post the least ofter post the most enjoyable videos. They are like little treasures that brighten my day
@@darkartsninja any word on how things are for Natalie/ whether we may see part 2 soon?
Considering she just released another video I am unsure there will be a part 2.
I think the most spot on remark on addiction made here is the feeling you get when you deny yourself the relief of a substance. It really feels like you are choosing pain, which makes you accountable for your own sadness in that moment. Even popping a pill that takes 30 mins to kick in gives you instant relief, because it calms the anxiety and the fear of the feeling that tells you your pain will go on untreated. It's like your brain tricking you that abusing a substance is self care, when the grim reality of sobriety is so cruel.
When you said "Grim reality of sobriety is so cruel" is one of the most profound statements I've heard when it comes to being an addict.
Agreed. It is so hard to feel like you are actively denying yourself the ability to feel better. I've had to learn to tell myself that pain is not, in fact, optional. Any pain I try to defer by using substances to make it go away will come back and it will probably be worse, because you need to feel those feelings. Kicking the can down the road just delays it, it doesn't save you from it. But that can feel toothless when you find out you can delay the pain for a long, long, long time, so don't take my meaning to be that this perspective is curative. It's just one that helped me.
This really explains a lot of my own thoughts that I could never quite articulate
One of my loved ones’ sponsors liked to say that sober stands for Son of a Bitch, Everything’s Real. Fits in well with what you’re saying… quitting isn’t just giving up the good feeling, it’s facing the crushing darkness of reality and learning to find joy in it anyway which is… a steep fucking hill to climb.
Virginia's rant about why she 'converted', silly as it is, actually made me realise for the first time
why people cling to religion and 'traditional values' so much. Being part of a community, feeling accepted, having a ready-made set of values given by some perfect, irrefutable being... that must be so comforting. Especially if you're in pain.
It's like this by design, I think - even if you don't believe, when you visit a church, the atmosphere and building itself just makes you feel so small, it inspires deferance and a need for belonging.
o.o
I think it's also because that mentality comes pre-made for people. You literally don't have to put in any mental work to understand and accept it. In most of the US, Christianity is just the default that people are raised in. Most people don't really like using their brains, it's easier to just accept what you've always been told is true.
yeah no, that's not why people believe.
though perhaps it can be a valid reason why people follow a religion.
@@lebell79 Maybe you can provide your own take on the origin of belief? Because "yeah no" isn't sticking here, sis.
Yes! Church's are so aware of this, listen to any preacher and he'll speak of feeling broken, empty, or alone and how God will fill that hole in your heart. Presenting this perfect morally uncomplicated way to escape all your problems, like who wouldn't take that opportunity in vulnerable positions?
As a recovering heroin addict, I just want to thank you for this incredible depiction of what it's like to want nothing more than to make the pain stop. I'm not sure what it is that you might be going through, but your art has gotten me through some really dark times. Wishing you well, beautiful.
Hyper leftism harms minds. Take a look at tim pool.
It hit me hard too....that initial bath scene gave me chills...
You're not alone in your fight. A lot of us are recovering addicts, myself included. This video was tough to watch because, as you said, it's an incredibly depiction of what we all go through.
I was wondering if other people would comment on this. I'm also a recovering addict, and that was deeply uncomfortable to watch.
I lost my best friend to it a few years back. The final act was definitely a lot to take in and got me thinking about him in a way that I try to avoid.
I'm glad you're still here.
I love how the only one of Virginia's confessions that makes Jackie gasp is gaining weight lmao
Same I giggled hard
thats the joke yes hah
The only one my mom would audibly gasp at 😂
I find it so interesting how Virginia and Justine's stories mirror each other, and how each of them simply went down a different path to cope with the hand that they were dealt. Virginia buried her sexuality with celibacy and fully removed her self-image from that of her body to cope with dysphoria. Justine embraces her gender and sexuality and fights for them to be recognized. I found it interesting how both characters had similar struggles yet because of their paths see things differently. Virginia gave up her identity for the sake of community and expects others to do the same while Justine prioritized her identity over being in a community and thinks that not doing so is suppressing herself. Both of them have what the other lacks and both feel a sense of yearning because of it. The God vs Devil dichotomy is interesting given that people go to either for the same reasons. People seek out higher powers as a source of comfort, either through scripture or substance. Virginia speaks about how one must exist outside of the flesh to avoid temptation, this while seeming off-topic about drug use is actually a direct result of it. Substance use is not a way to indulge in the flesh rather it is often used to remove oneself from it. Justine uses void to mute the senses rather than to indulge in them (presumably compared to hype) which is exactly what Virginia uses religion for, while her addiction is not carnal it still could become an addiction nonetheless.
I love your videos!! They're always steeped in so much meaning and artistic value, I can't wait to see what you do next!
Just to run down the track a way with a couple of questions regarding Virginia being 'saved': she was in an incredibly vulnerable place when she attended the church with her mom.
Did the church prey upon her vulnerability and manipulate her as Lucy preys upon Justine?
Was Virginia effectively subjected to a form of conversion therapy?
Holy hell my guy/gal/nonbinary pal. That's a very intelligent literary analysis.
I ❤JKR
I enjoyed reading through your reading! 🤍
Only the part where you said that Justine chose identity over community startled me - is there no community amongst other 'individualists'? Both of them seem disintegrated from actual community, and I guess there is a performativity aspect on both sides of coping, as one could say that both replace aspects of their authentic personality with ... quotables.
What I will continue to muse on is the trans-theistic Hype/Void dichotomy. I thought that was a very clever translation/reduction of contemporary unconsciously lived concepts of the same, age-old dualism that seems to come with experiencing the human condition in this mortal coil through which we travel with our flesh vehicle.
@@PeachPlastic i totally get that! I meant it more in a sense that Justine herself seems to lack a community rather than the trans community as a whole. She seems to lack close relationships with her family due to her identity and isn’t shown to have many close people in her life. This is in contrast to Virginia who seemingly has some kind of community because of her decision. This isn’t a reading on being lgbt vs being religious as a whole and more so on the individual characters represented in the video.
Thank you for addressing the self-perpetuating ever present and ever given out hurt in the LGBTQI+ community. It does things to a person. Hopefully bringing attention to it can help. At least somebody. At least a little bit.
💯 absolutely. I attended a pride parade today in Germany. The amount of people with obviously self harm scars … crazy, so many - old, young, men, women, Enbys, trans … it was not the first time I have noticed this. 😔
There is a lot work to do, but it always starts with awareness of the problem.
We cannibalize each other to fulfill the mad desire toward autocannibalism.
To quote some unknown person, "hurt people hurt people".
o.o
we tend to forget that when a group of people are marginalized a lot of those people are also gonna be traumatized
"You know what your saying is indefensible so you defend your 'right' to say it." God damn it I love this
Had to listen to that line twice it was so good
it's so clever - those who use the "free speech" slogan to try to excuse hate speech have no other way of defending their selves
When this first came out I was deep in my alcoholism. I didn’t fully understand this video or myself. Now 6 months into recovery and it makes so much more sense. Thank you ❤
Came out as what? Furry
@@flower_girl4983 no they mean when the video first came out / was released
@@flower_girl4983💀💀💀
As a young trans person your videos and a lot of the dog whistles used in this video are something I live with everyday and it's so helpful to hear you discuss it and remind me i am not insane for fighting transphobia
not for that, hon. and if you are, i'm proud to be insane, too.
@@LiminalDoll I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure you misinterpreted that comment.
@@LiminalDoll lets all throw tomates together^^
@@LiminalDoll They should be eating those tomatoes, my dude, shit's delicious
Same omg!
Having content of this level accessible for free (well, theoretically free) to people all over the world is mind blowing.
Your channel is an oasis and an inspiration for me in Brazil. Thanks!
It's sad that we don't have more voices like this in this world.
@@LadyAtoli More communists who advocate for vice and overturning western traditions because they lack the composure to abide by norms? Not really. We saw what that led to at CHOP/CHAZ, Weimar and later during historical communist rule
I appreciate the entertainment value and the attempt to bring up different perspectives even if it's done through strawman arguments, but most people don't resonate with Contra's conclusions or politics.
@@pollytix7271 This argument is funny because your examples include anarchist movements of people trying to pull away from a system while being under attack.
You also fail to acknowledge that socialist policies exist in almost all developed "western" countries at this point. What do you think Social Security is? Public education? Taking care and providing the needs of people to be successful is how you create a healthy society.
Also somehow you imply capitalism is working and devoid of problems. Things aren't so great in the great occupation of the USA either. Human misery is at a peak. We have mass shootings weekly. Sucides are on the rise. And we have one of the most toxic cultures in the world.
Countries that have blended socialist policies into their societies are way less violent, way less discontent, and typically way more educated.
meu criador de conteudo favorito no canal da minha outra criadora de conteudo favorita
you seriously just called her subject material "content"
no
All jokes aside (I commented “yes mommy”), being a queer teacher in the Deep South, I resonate a lot with this. Especially that I teach my seniors Sappho as part of my ancient lit unit, I’ve had a few parents call me groomer because small town america and evangelism decided that’s what teachers are now. Your videos have always added a sense of belonging to me, and your old videos even made me decide to choose to work instead of pursuing a PhD. Thank you for all you do ❤️
Oooo you should also teach Thoreau. He’s wrote about abolitionism and John Brown. I think they would largely benefit :)
@@stoleneyez I teach Thoreau and Baldwin to my 11th graders :)
I fear you are the last beacon of intelligence for the American people
@exe lmao which country? Estonia?
@@himesilva Estonia is Eastern Europe?
29:07 - What I really love about this bit where Justine pretends to be an interlocutor in a Socratic dialogue is that she's roasting BOTH Virginia and Plato. Plato as a follower of Socrates believed like his teacher that true enlightenment and philosophical progress comes from dialogue and hence why he structured all his work as conversations between Socrates and various randos from around Athens. You notice in the early dialogues that they were actual conversations, and Socrates' interlocutors would actually push back against him, raise their own points, and make their own arguments. More and more in Plato's later work, however, you notice he really just wants everyone to shut up and listen to Socrates (i.e., Plato's) ideas. However, Plato could never quite make himself get rid of the dialogue format altogether, so by the time you get to, like, The Republic, you'll have the "dialogue" consist in Socrates preaching for a page or two, and then you'll get a quick line thrown in by some stooge saying "Yes, it must be" or something before Socrates continues rambling.
Justine using those responses cast such classicist shade against Virginia. Virginia said she wanted to try to reach Justine through reasoned dialogue, but she obviously, like the late Plato, just wanted to preach.
So interesting, thank you for that
The danger is that once you begin studying philosophy, you end up being a really good sophist.
For me, Virginia’s attempt at a Socratic refutation only increases my appreciation for Plato. Reading the early and middle dialogues, and even many of the late ones, you can notice that Plato arranges the steps of Socrates’ arguments carefully so that, typically, the interlocutor agrees to several key points before Socrates introduces a twist that ties everything together into a counterintuitive conclusion. He doesn’t do this to trick the interlocutor underhandedly, but because, if it’s too obvious where the argument is headed, the interlocutor will try to sabotage it. But Virginia’s attempt is ham-fisted and obvious. She tries to score a refutation in only three questions, and had she brushed up on her apologetics beforehand, she might have tried to build her case on shared premises between herself and Justine. These are things that Plato clearly appreciates and incorporates. Hence he is the OG.
@@andr0oo820 facts
@@jamesmire “The interlocutor” still being Socrates. Saying he gets his interlocutor to agree doesn’t really mean much when it’s still coming out of his own mind. Of course he can’t come up with an objection. If he could then he probably wouldn’t hold the belief.
Listening to Justine describe erotic love has the same effect as watching someone make the most delicious looking chocolate cake while you are currently in an apartment with only instant ramen and all the stores are closed.
Justine's description of erotic love also reminded me of Oscar Wilde's "The Love That Dare Not Speak Its Name" speech.
fucking apt description. Natalie just summed up my life issues in an hour ,and now im pissed i spent some much on therapy .
@@oculttheexegaming2509 Very that, I’m also getting hints of Sappho that I’m sure Wilde also was familiar with
As an ace, it was kinda like watching someone make a delicious cake while you're so full you couldn't possibly eat anymore. It's still nice to see. And it also helped me understand some stuff about sexual attraction which I didn't think about
Certainly hit home in a way considering how “love” and dating is basically commodified to the point of soul sucking torture. Dating apps are a joke. Everything is all about dtf culture, her comment about the lack of community and how it’s a bunch of wounded people wounding each other also couldn’t be any more true. It’s a damn shame itself. Very powerful feature.
Im turning 30 in a few hours. The last few years have been dark. You have been one of the people who helped me get my life back. Thank you Natalie. Watching a contrapoints video is a great birthday present. Stay healthy and happy.
happy birthday! a lot of people find happiness in their 30s, 40s, or later. whatever youre going through now is neither a waste nor hopeless. one day you'll thank yourself for holding on even during your darkest times :)
Happy Birthday! 😊❤🎂
Happy birthday from Brazil!
Happy birthday!
Happy 3 decades on this wretched planet. Long live ashwin.
“You just know that what you’re saying is indefensible, so you defend your ‘right’ to say it” - that is a beautifully concise take down of the whole nonsense. I will use that!
Great job as always!
This is art. This is cinema. Natalie should’ve been nominated for awards for this
It truly is amazing
Using Eminem's face as Justine's pretransition photo is the most a UA-cam video has ever made me laugh
This! I was crying 🤣😭😭💀💀☠️
That one is what broke me
But can the real slim shady please stand up?
Don't forget the 'The. Way. I. Am.' callback line Nat drops later in the vid lol
omg im too face blind to notice thats HILARIOUS!!
This was a difficult watch on so many levels, but masterfully done.
The twisted religious arguments, the "I don't care so long as I can indulge myself" right-wing libertarians, the harried center-left "I can get through to these people! wait, oh no" academic who can't get two words in before they're twisted into the host's hostile framing of the issue... It shows how cartoonish the "debate" sphere really is. Jennifer's religious rhetoric is exactly as insidious as what real adherents use, both the "I'm just being reasonable"-to-nonsense gish-gallop and the talking in endless circles to avoid answering the question (note: she never did answer anything - even nonsexual like "opening jars" - she actually likes about men, just waxed on about religious exctasy like a 17th century nun describing a tryst with a fellow nun). The podcast segment clearly illustrated how this format is insidious in creating confusion and "gotcha" moments for entertainment rather than clarifying even one perspective.
I also appreciated how the segment after the podcast shows how people who are publicly at-least-trying to show up for reason and actual-liberty (as opposed to flag-waving increasingly-open-fascism) might present a stoic face and snappy comebacks in the moment but still be rocked internally by the assaults (and the hundred other things any of us are navigating at any given moment). And in those moments (eons) of isolation, doubt, and pain we can choose relief that brings its own sorrows. Especially when some forms (alcohol, religious zealotry, weed, other drugs) are encouraged in our social/cultural groups.
Looking forward to how the open ending here is picked up in part 2. I'm sure Contra has a lot more to say.
All of that to then be accused of "platforming the enemy" by friends would be enough to make anyone go insane...
@@eps3154 Public scrutiny is a pressure cooker, and the reflexive offhand opinion machines are so ingrained these days that friends, foes, and fans alike can all fall on the wrong side of well-meant constructive criticism vs pile-on.
@@PhosphorAlchemist especially since one instance of genuinely well-meant criticism can become part of a pile-on, and read identically to hundreds of other messages, it’s sort of a gestalt phenomenon
world sees Russian alcoholism as a joke is because the West doesn't want to see alcoholism as a problem. You have older folks complaining about silly things like Gamer addiction, but they don't ever say zilch about alcoholism even though it's far worse. This is because people don't want to see the harm in something they enjoy, especially when they enjoy it too much
UA-camr and ex-evangelical Genetically modified sceptic made a video called „Awful things we believed at my evangelical university“. It included believing that faith in god could turn one straight. Once the university invited an „ex-gay“ evangelist to speak to the students. One student asked weather he was attracted to women now. He just replied no and nothing else, then went on to talk about something else. When I heard that story I had to think of Virginia.
Even though this video is about drugs on one level, I feel on a deeper level, it is about loneliness. Justine and Virginia are both alone, even if Justine admits the important truths about herself while V denies them at this point in her life. So it turns out, drugs and this all-encompassing type of belief serve the same purpose for them: to escape the reality they know but can't accept... and it is not their identities that make it unbearable. It's the heartbreak and the loneliness.
Ok but can we talk about Natalie’s beautiful piano playing? As a newly minted ~doctor in piano performance~, I am in absolute awe. Obviously, everything else in the video was outstanding and meaningful and gave me a new understanding of life, but the piano playing is really not to be overlooked!
Congrats on a Piano Doctorate from an Aspiring Tuba Major
Virginia is so well-acted I actually became frustrated listening to her and had to remind myself it was a character.
Yeah, but there are so many real life Virginia's in the world.....
this is literally 80% of people’s Twitter beef with contra probably really actually; a character who somewhat looks like her in a dialectic says something people don’t like and people just assume contra feels that way
I kind of like the sound of "aimless fornication" as long as it's consensual.
Contrapoints should change her name to mommypoints
Like. I grew up listening to her. I know her.
"It's just a simple matter of giving up the only thing that makes me that life worth living... how hard can that be?" Is almost exactly what I told myself when I quit. As an addict, I identified with this video a lot. Especially entering AA/NA as an atheist. Great content!
Hope your AA road is strong and steady. If you haven't already "Don't Worry, He Won't Get Far on Foot" is a great movie about recovery.
I'm glad your trying, and I hope the emptiness gets better for you soon and you get all the support you need. How is AA/NA as an atheist? I'm not an addict but I'm at war with the concept. On one hand, is seems to be THE way to get support for addicts. On the other, the steps and the entire foundation are rooted in an ideology I can't accept. I feel like if I had to go through it, the jesus stuff would make participating more difficult. I'm working toward being a social worker (still a ways to go). Just curious what the experience in the group feels like for when I try to support people suffering from addiction in the future, especially for people that aren't spiritual.
Look into smart recovery
@@fayble11 for me, in NA, it was hard to look past at the start - there was a lot of talk of god, and i wasn't (and still am not) big on the idea of god in the religious sense. but it's not a religious program - at least, it's not supposed to be. the word 'god' has now become a placeholder for me for anything that's able to help me through, something that's stronger than my addiction. usually, that's earthly things for me - a big part of my 'god' or 'higher power' are the recovering addicts that surround me, who are able and willing to help me, get me out of my own head, and happen to say the things i need to hear at the right times. NA talks of a 'god of our own understanding', and this is how i understand it, personally; it's up to me to interpret it, so long as it works. hope that makes sense :)
It doesn't even need to be something as tough as drugs. For me it is just food. Being overweight (not even morbidly) gives me a lot of pain and dissatisfaction but I just can't bring myself to take away this biggest pleasure of my life and switch to proverbial salad. And boy have I tried.
It's especially bad considering having meals with people close to me is such a part of the culture and eating can't be just stopped like with alcohol or drugs.
Justine describes Virgina as "boring", but her speeches are far from it. I found the over the top religious ramblings so evocative and aesthetically powerful, I can see how someone could become completely convinced. It really scratches that cosmic horror itch, that strange desire for things much larger than life. It's a bit like when you have a toothache and for some strange reason press your tongue against it, making the pain worse: to turn your shame into something of epic proportions is oddly empowering, as is total, voluntary submission to cosmic machinations.
Even tho she doesn't see it, I think her sense of shame is a lot like Virginia's, and her Void a lot like a spiritual rapture.
Thanks for making yet another wonderfully painful, soul-piercing piece, Natalie! I wish you all the best
Her words are aesthetic but it must be super boring living a life with time enough to think up those scripts
yea when lucy describes void for the first time i thought it was in some way the same as what faith it to virginia
That strange empowerment you're mentioning is possibly at the root of why fascism is so seductive to so many. The self-hate puts them above their own pain. They take on the superior position of the oppressor. From there it's only a matter of time before it gets externalized and projected out onto the world as a political reality
I grew up in a Christian family, so hearing the rhetoric threw me back to when I would stand in the pews, hating myself in various ways, hoping desperately that I would feel the presence of God and be saved.
You did notice all the horror imagery on the screen during her speeches, didn't you?
This video was basically Plato's Symposium crossed with a horror movie.
Justine's speech about erotic love actually does shut Virginia up for two minutes. It seems to touch her: her face softens when she looks at Justine.
But then Justine follows it up by insulting Jackie and Virginia, Jackie takes offense and throws a little tantrum, Justine turns her focus to Jackie, and so Virginia has the time to suppress her feelings and respond from faith instead.
Holy shit you’re right I didn’t realize that
We don’t deserve Contrapoints
yeah I thought that moment was really moving
Someone else said this, but Natalie doesn’t get enough credit for how great of an actress she is, and that really shines in the “fictional debate” episodes
that speech made me cry. the visuals she used with it was just too real
I am:
- a former (pretty damn extreme) Christian
- in a long introspective period, in which I'm regularly questioning my gender
- an addict
- named Justin
- now desperately waiting for part 2
I discovered your channel a few months ago, I think you're doing incredible work, and this video is no different. Thanks for doing what you do!
Good luck
What a time to be alive
Those coincidences are insane yo what that's crazy ngl
Try being named Virginia, lol.
Thank god for UA-cam. ;)
This depiction of opiate addiction is so spot on its almost difficult to watch. Everything from that initial conversation with satan that got her hooked to the “Five drops to take the edge off” to it becoming the only thing that makes life feel worth living. You went above and beyond Natalie and I hope you understand that this episode has made so many people feel seen in that addiction is as much a product of the world around us as it is the drug itself, especially within the queer community. You got me crying towards the end there. Excellent work as always.
I had an opiate prescription for 5-6 days after a medical procedure when I was much younger and I was ready to have someone tie me to a mast to prevent me from getting more. It sounds melodramatic to frame a short term prescription in those terms, but I'm sure it would have killed me if I'd had access to more.
The depiction of minority stress is also top tier.
I am unable to think of a better depiction of addiction. It was painfully accurate. I feel like this is one of those videos that I'll remember for a very, very long time.
yea...it was really well done.
"almost" difficult to watch, it is very difficult to watch lol
I was just contemplating my romantic and sexual failures - I’m a 28-years old gay man without a single day of serious relationships with anyone, lonely, sometimes childish and projecting. And I was just thinking - maybe, MAYBE I should just throw in a towel on my gayness and become a straight guy, find a girl and get married.
And then our Dark Goddess-Mother Natalie relentlessly and MERCILESSLY dropped this Virginia Lamm character on me. SPECIFICALLY the lines “You’ve amputated a half of your own soul” and something about not being strong and grown up enough to endure rejection hit me pretty hard.
So… here I am. 28, gay as a rainbow, lonely etc and basically staring at a possible future of mine as a homophobic “ex-gay” (because, OF COURSE, there are no bigger homophobes than “ex-LGBTQ” people).
And I don’t wanna be that. I’d prefer to be a lonely gay guy never EVER approached by anyone who wants to “traverse the void to reunite with his other half” than to become this self-hating close-minded self-deceiving bigot.
Thank you Natalie, for setting my head… gay.
Edit: some grammar mistakes, English is not my native language
I've had a similar experience. 24, bi, in the closet, no serious relationship with either a man or a woman. I've had moments where I believe I should just parrot around as a straight devout Christian in order to cease my own personal emptiness, but that would that really satisfy me? Or would it simply pacify me into a state of strict conformity and theater disguised as happiness and safety??? It doesn't help that with the Religious Right becoming more powerful and certain laws being up on the table, that it seems like a viable conclusion to come to...but at the end of the day it is not truthful nor a fact that that would lead me to happiness or self acceptance.
Whatever you chose never silence you guilt, shame, inadequacy - those are your best directions wherever you will go. The voice of conscience is the only way to know thy self.
@@opinion4755 I’m choosing to be true to myself - be gay as fuck. If it means that I’ll die alone - so be it. At least I’ll know some happiness instead of self-deceit and bigotry.
@@opinion4755 I think there is a difference between a healthy amount of self-criticism and allowing it to rule your life, which is what me and OP were talking about. For instance, why should I feel "guilt" and "shame" over my sexuality? That is one of the most illogical things to feel guilt over. What exactly am I feeling shame for? The shame wouldn't exist if society didn't make being LGBTQ+ seem morally reprehensible.
I also don't think that negative emotions are more "true" indications of oneself than positive ones. That is a very insidious line of thought. There needs to be a balance because allowing just one or the other to indicate your life is just not healthy. Someone who thinks too little or too high of themselves is bound to never evolve.
@@ayanna6327 yes yes yes! Like you said balance is the key. I am talking about these emotions within boundaries of healthy functioning psyche were they signal need to adjust behavior and are nor obsessive nor compulsive. And I mention this because when you develop an addiction to cope in my personal experience you do it tune out the message you need to hear. For instance if you really need alcohol to interact social an manage anxiety you are ( i was) an alcoholic. Let’s see what the next video reveals.
I'm a trans woman ex-catholic who's addicted to weed and afraid of getting addicted to worse drugs, so this video was way too goddamn real for me.
Pls try meditation and research about pyschology watch pysch2go it really helped me watch philosphy of taoism it helped me to live my life way more peacful don't do that
“You want to know the truth about drugs? You can only go one or two ways. You can go up, or you can go down. That’s it. After a certain point, though, no matter what you do, what you take, you don’t go anywhere, and that’s when you’ve got to sit down and face yourself.”
- RuPaul
Look into George Macdonald
Good luck fellow lgbtq stoner. Just wanna tell you you've got this!
You're a dude . Make peace with your nature it will heap for everything else
10 years ago, I would have been upset by the strawmanning of Christianity, but nowadays, that's just an accurate read of everything American christian leaders are saying (just condensed down for comedy's sake).
Also "you know what you're saying is indefensible, so instead you defend your right to say it" is a GOD TIER breakdown.
To be fair, I think it's all straw manning if it's like a one actress movie
@@ferretappreciator Would you call the Socratic dialogues a giant straw man?
@@leobarajas1468 yes because it's a big movie :D. I wasn't trying to say nattalie is wrong about anything just that anything could be called a strawman, and ultimately people who tend to use that term are unhelpful (see the other commenter :|)
also edited my comment to say actress because I don't want to be associated with the other person
“It’s just a simple matter of giving up the only thing that makes life worth living. How hard could that be?” As somebody who has struggled with “void”, that really hits home.
i need a tolerance break very soon
and people think you're being dramatic when you say it
I am an abuser survivor and this video is scaring the shit out of me. I've struggled with emotional eating, but I've never been addicted to drugs or alcohol, but the thought that something could make my existence manageable, even pleasurable, is terrifying. I know I'd never want that feeling to stop. Christ.
@@greenworld966 I literally just had a conversation about that with my brother. I've read the testimonies of people who describe what it's like to be on "void". It's enough to make me never want to touch it. I'd like to think I'd be strong willed enough to do it once, if it were ever offered, just to know what it's like, and then never again. But there's a part of me that knows I can't be completely confident that I am that strong of will, so it's better I never do it and find out.
@@gregvs.theworld451 what specific drug is being referenced? Heroin?
Nothing a few corndogs can't solve
love u
Surprised to see you here
Kings & Generals here too ??, well well well
But what do you mean by "corndogs"?
Literally was watching a kings and generals vid like an hour ago
Last year when this came out my mom overheard me watching this and started a fight about how I’m obsessed with sexuality (?) (I’m queer), which ended with me crying. I never finished the video because it kept reminding me of the fight with my mom, but now I’m happy to say that I’m finally watching it to the end.
Edit: I never expected this to get so many likes! It’s been a long time since that fight and I have a better relationship with my mom now. Now she more or less understands my sexuality and romantic preferences and doesn’t question them. It’s been a tough journey, but I’m doing well now :)
hey pal, sorry about your mom letting you down. glad you made it through
Ugh, I asked my mom if I could go to a trans rights protest and she also said “why am I obsessed with The Gays?!?11”
and yhea, it really hurt, being a closeted queer, being told that people like me didn’t deserve rights.
Hope your mom comes around, you deserve better.
Listen to your mom. She loves you and know better for you than a bunch of youtubers who will not be there when you find almost everything they told you about sexuality was false and leading to a sad life
I hope you realize how lame of a point that is. No one ever says that someone is "obsessed" with their sexuality when it's something related to straight people.
@@alfonsoc.950 you need to touch grass
As a Sagittarius I did not enjoy being cancel cultured in this essay.
But the steamed hams reference has pacified me.
As a Sagittarius, this video hit me like an arrow to the heart. It hurts, but I kinda wanna come back for more.
As a Capricorn, I should be above all of this nonsense yet here I am, attacked.
As a daughter of an addict, a trans girl, and a victim of abuse and trauma, this hit a little too close to home. I've had to entirely abstain from any sort of drugs because I fear with my family history that I would immediately fall down the rabbit hole. I hope things are better for you, and that they get better for me.
I love dangling modifiers
From some random stranger: I hope things get better for you. I am glad you're here. For whatever that's worth.
@@englebre21 I hope kindness always has worth.
@@cthulhutheendless1587 we all dangle our modifiers here. this is a safe space, for modifiers of all shapes, sizes, and identities to dangle freely without judgement
This gave me a new understanding of a sibling’s lost fight with heroin. An understanding from the side I’ve never heard; the voices from within. I find new empathy for her in a place I never thought I could. These feelings are deeply universal. I really apologize if putting the weight of a stranger’s personal story onto your work makes you uncomfortable, but it’s something I feel inclined to share.
Thank you, Natalie.
I learned a bit about heroin addiction and why people use...it's extremely sad and it's one of the few things that gives relieve to people who suffer very deeply. It can quiet the voices and give you a sense of warmth and safety. I am very sorry for your loss, hope you are doing ok.
Am an addict myself and I’d say it’s pretty accurate. All I can say is don’t try opioids if you don’t have to. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever dealt with and I’m someone who’s had to deal with the death of my husband and suicide of my best friend and those are both walks in the park compared to opioid addiction.
It made me think of my former partner who abandoned me for heroin and then died by drowning in a bathtub. That scene where she almost drowned was honestly hard to watch due to how similar it is to what happened to my partner. I agree, this video gave me a new perspective that is probably more similar to what he was going through than anything I could imagine on my own. Thanks, Natalie.
@@ilikemaline Opioids do not cause long term health degradation like most other commonly used 'immoral molecules', in a regulated (not black market fentanyl...) environment the only major health complication is the dependency.
Once you develop a serious opioid addiction and/or dependency, statistically you will be dependent for the rest of your life. it takes literal years for the body to re-normalize after a long term, serious, opioid dependency.
Both these concepts are why maintenance therapy has not only been best medical practice for over a century at this point, but also is the ONLY efficacious treatment for opioid addiction.
Prohibition has turned a bunch of opium eaters into IV fentanyl addicts.
I have also been there. sending solidarity
I love how contra calls out how melodramatic overtly religious bigots can be, because damn a break up and gospel music really isn't that deep 💀
Once or twice a year we gather to watch an hour of spiraling madness and descent.
And I love it every time.
Holy shit, didn't expect my former Amphibia dealer to be here
The part about many Christians being more concerned with the "compassion aesthetic" than genuine compassion couldn't be more true, especially among the "hate the sin, love the sinner" crowd.
The fact that this is only a three person production is nuts, so well made, and so depressingly spot on. Once pointed out though I couldn't stop noticing how similar they all sounded! Well worth the time invested
Wait you know all 3 of them are her right?
@@LadyAtoli that's what I'm wondering too
@@LadyAtoli @? yes Charles Armstrong and Kat Lo are named as script advisors in the credits
@@lnt305 plus the musician; Zoé Blade
@@LadyAtoli nah man, they're wildly different women. Similar sounding sure, but that's just the tendency with these types of podcasts, ya know?
Why is no one talking about this video being part 2 of the "Left"? Justine tried to be ice cold mthfckr, but failed. She tried to make marxism fashionable, but the editor twisted the meaning of her book. It is also a prelude to the "Witchtrail" video: it shows why Justine/Contra leave the center. Justine tried to be friends with both the left and the right (Tabby and Tiffany), but ended up estranged from both. This lore is so entartaining even though Im not american, I watch this videos to feel comfortable cause my life is fckd up and I need a light.
but fr, i never noticed... спасибо алексей бородавкин, я тоже смотрю не из сша, поднимаем уровень дискуссии в восточной европе
@@godzdead thanks) where r you from?
I love this analysis. Beautiful!!!
@@godzdead базируем
I really like how Luci describes Void in the same way that Virginia describes God’s love. Also how Luci becomes Mommy once she gives the first dose, as God becomes the Father. You have to submit to it to get away from yourself.
whoaaa holy shit, i didnt notice these parallels. thank you for pointing these out!!
Damn, I completely missed this! i will def be rewatching this video again to pick up on this
Holy shit excellent read! I was wondering why she had Luci explicitly ask Justine to refer to her as mommy. Who knew religion and drug addiction could make such amazing parallels
I am so curious why the people who didn't see the parallels thought these two segments were part of the same video.
@@csrjjsmp IDK, i just didn't try to interpret it right away, and just see where it was going then kinda forgot. But now that it was pointed out it's so obvious!
"It just means giving up the only thing that makes it feel like life is worth living" hit me in the gut as a recovering opiate addict quitting is brutal and ugly and hard. This video meant a lot especially when things are so bleak. Thank you and I hope you're doing well🖤
I just learnt I have life of taking opiates in front of me, due to incurable genetic condition, and wow, this is brutal.
Recovering alcoholic here. I quit cold turkey and it was absolutely brutal. I couldn't sleep, was irritable as hell, and was overall just miserable. After a few weeks though my life drastically improved and the strangest thing happened; time slowed down. It's because I was present during ALL my waking hours and I could actually be productive and aware during the time I was "voiding" out.
My parents, especially my dad still abuse alcohol daily and it's sad to see how irritable, miserable, and negative my dad is until he gets a few drinks in him. He is virtually intolerable to be around when he is sober and gets agitated at the most minor shit. Void really is a double edged sword
Considering Natalie has been struggling with the same, as well as people mocking her for it (actually for being a trans woman but they'll take whatever ammo they can get) it's no coincidence that it was so fitting
@@Deszigames I turned to alcohol a year or so after I kicked the pills (i just so desperately did not want to be present in my worl) and honestly it was harder to stop drinking than to stop using opiates. I am so proud of and I know how hard it is when those you love continue to abuse alcohol 🖤
@@curiosity6580 if it is for medical reason your stakes are completely different... opiates have there place and are so necessary for certain people. my mom has spinal damage and for her to function in this world she requires the use of strong pain medication. Its the perspective and context that determine the difference. My mom looks at her medication the way someone with diabetes sees their insulin or a person with depression sees their medication a necessary addition to their life not ideal but with knowledge that it will be a daily things. Addicts see them differently in a self injurious way. Please if pain management is going to improve your life dont deny yourself.
I personally admire Jackie’s bladder after all those damn liquids. You put in so much hard work to what you do Natalie. My mother was an addict in the 80s. Unable to deal with being a closeted lesbian in a family that just wanted a smart son and couldn’t handle a brilliant daughter. I lost her in 91. I think she would take a lot of solace in your work. I revisit your videos often. Sometimes for substance, sometimes for aesthetic. Thank you for your hard work and discussing hard subjects. You can try to bury your pain but it somehow always comes back to bite you in the ass.🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️Happy Pride❤️
So Precious...Finally a savior named Biden...
I watch this like almost every night, I’m starting to memorize this whole thing. This is probably one of my favorite videos on the internet. There’s so much time and effort put into this I love the crystals and masks. The makeup and costumes. Everything. I really wish I could do stuff like this in my future. It’s just so cool. Definitely one of my favorite videos. You balance it being dark and philosophical with very light humour and it all pans out so well
It’s so cathartic, I spend too much time in conversations just like these so it’s so refreshing to not be the only one seeing the problem.
thank god im not the only one watching this on repeat lmao. this and shame are very good for contemplating while drifting to sleep
Once again, Contrapoints triumphs in empathy. She makes me feel like my deep-seated existential feelings and anxieties are understood in a way no other creator does. And that she can speak an entire charismatic speech in the voice of her ideologically opponents! Incredible.
God, I wish I was so eloquent- yes to all of this.
Someone copied this comment further down, weird
Most of your problems become solved when you learn to be useful to others besides yourself.
off topic but 666th like
18:20 Playing Scheherazade when she says "God has healed the feminine in me" was a nice touch as it calls upon how Scheherazade told hundreds of stories in an attempt to preserve her life in a similar way to how Virginia tells herself all these stories to maintain her worldview (which for her, is her life).
I screamed!!!!!!!
and applauded
Damn. I wish I was a little bit more cultured to fully get things like that. Thanks for sharing.
For me it was a nod to her other video, Shame, still ironic since there she talked about how she didn't want to be gay
@@kevinlechuga_ No problem, I’m a music student studying performance and so it’s just background knowledge for my career. Just make sure not to romanticize those who know about classical music or classical music in general, it makes them no more cultured than those who know about pop music :)
There is a cultural bias in the west to uphold a bunch of German white dudes as “the greats” and there is a push to deconstruct that narrative in music education.
@@kevinlechuga_ don't sweat it. I only really learned about Rimsky-Korsakov when COVID started. I'm just a 39 year old black queer jock but was interested in classical piano because I'm going to purchase my first piano this summer because I'm to old play basketball with the straight bros and I wanted to play some anime songs I like. I don't know shit about fuck bb. 💕 I've just started to dig into a lot of different musical arts now that I have the income and time to do so.
“God created adam and eve, not adam and eve and kai and jaden and kaiden and lilith and ashton and skyler and.. rainbow.” Natalie writes better anti-trans jokes than the actual transphobes
Knowing what hurts yourself the most means you’ll be the best at joking at your own expense
because we are trans dude.
Transphobes don't understand trans people enough to have any real zingers
This has ben a usual joke in Indonesia. Not that original for me, but 18 mins in this is a wonderful video
We gotta cope somehow, bro.
I hope you're okay, Natalie. Whatever's going on in your life, please know that you have a community who cares about you. That might be a weird response to the deserved call-out for the queer left shitting all over each other, but now is as good a time as any to start being better at supporting our own.
the CCC: the cross-dresser care community
@@FreeTheDonbas Found the 4IQ individual
😊
“Im here to remind you that your pain is….optional” is such a real fucking statement when you are dealing with addictions and recovery. Im going through my own journey with this, you are a queen I watched every second of this video.
It is a hard statement. It is also kind of a lie. 😬 (Well, maybe a lie for everyone except the Buddhists.) To live is to feel pain, of some sort, at some times. If you can’t feel pain, you also can’t feel joy.
Stephanie Eller not even buddhists would agree. a buddhist saying is „pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.“ suffering occurs when pain is not accepted.
@@julesk1567 Buddhist here not a guru but life is to be not lived by extreme denial to our flesh Yeah I also left Christianity but can't deny my love for the Person and teachings of Jesus himself . but not go to extreme length of pleasure and hedonism but . walk what the Buddha calls the middle path . being a Buddhist means you experience the pain in life but you choose and work towards betterment and enlightenment and are called just like real Jesus followers are taught by him to do as well which is walk the path endure the struggle walk in peace find joy and ecstasy in your life and follow truth and be a skeptic and help your fellow creatures to the best of your abilities also a bit of an absurdist and our calling in life is to see the contradictions endure the pain and find our own meaning and even if it is to be mostly a lot of pain just like the myth of Sisyphus being cursed by Zeus to roll a boulder up a hill for all eternity only for it to inevitably fall to the bottom but to find peace in a chaotic mostly meaningless world we still fight that boulder and keep doing so because it is not going away.
@@stephanieeller2283 The fact that the statement is kind of a lie is part of what what Contra is trying to get across. Substances CAN take away your pain...for a while. The lie is that this doesn't make your pain optional...it just postpones it. What makes it really hard is having the stuff there and knowing you don't HAVE to feel the pain...today. Every day you are faced with that choice, so every addict thinks "I'll quit...tomorrow."
It’s true…but when science discovers a cure for mental sickness, will these same people take this cure? Or will they instead embrace their pain, because it ultimately gives them that attention and sympathy they long for?
It’s a question no one will answer truthfully, and even if they did, their answer will just be your typical coping mechanism.
I watched this with my other queer housemates like it was the Gospel Part II come to screen. And then we sat in shocked silence for 60 minutes as every phrase recited by our fundie and Catholic parents and friends was hurled by Virginia. I know I've moved past the brainwashing and addiction to self-loathing that religious compulsion feeds on, but DAMN that was hard. You researched incredibly hard to make every word of hers something real and poisoned, that we all have faced. Sending love....this was a video you had to suffer so intensely to make. 🥺😭❤️
Virginia is very well observed and I find her a lot more interesting than the stereotype of a tradwife fundamentalist is usually presented. She’s found the salve for her own pain in faith and she expresses that faith through a very particular religious understanding. This keeps her from falling back into the pain she experienced in her old life whilst giving her the opportunity to build an identity independent of her carnal needs/wants/desires. But Virginia also needs others to follow those rules because she mistakes piety for holiness: the customs of religion and tradition for the mark in others of true faith in the Gospel. She’s very much at risk of swapping one set of sins she abhors for self-righteousness and legalism which are just as bad.
I suspect Virginia would look on another cisgender lesbian woman with much more compassion than she can muster for Justine because she knows her own pain which caused her to look for an alternative identity outside of her sexuality. Justine’s pain is alien to her and Virginia cannot accept that a constructed identity - the very thing her own religious life is based in - can be equally as meaningful for someone else if it violates her understanding of embodied physicality. Her surprise and discomfort that Justine too identifies as a lesbian further reinforces this.
However I think it’s clear that behind Virginia’s religious beliefs she also has a genuine spiritual faith and really does believe the Gospel that we are all sinners deserving death, that Christ died for our sins, that his blood atonement will save anyone who chooses to place their faith in him, that he rose from the grave in the flesh to conquer death, and that he is the prophesied Son of Man. Her spiritual raptures seem very clearly focused in that personal relationship. This is the saving grace which many of her religious fellow travellers lack despite their protestations to the contrary.
1 Corinthians is normally the passage the Virginia’s of the world bring up when they want to argue against toleration of homosexuality or transgenderism. They’re right that the Bible does view homosexual intercourse as sinful along with pretty much everything else humankind has a natural predisposition towards - including heterosexual intercourse outside of monogamous marriage. And Jesus raised the stakes compared to the Mosaic Law by pointing out that the desire to sin is the sin itself in God’s eyes. The Biblical assessment of human nature is brutal and damning: that all sin and fall short of the glory of God and that none can save themselves.
Paul was making a very serious point about how those saved in Christ no longer face this condemnation under the law, but that being free they shouldn’t look on that as a license to do whatever they desire because that has consequences both here and now in the physical world and in the development of a personal relationship with Christ. That they should think through the consequences of their desires before acting rather than being mastered by them, and thus do their best to live sanctifying lives.
The strand of Christian doctrine Virginia follows appears to be Dominionist - that the purpose of the Church is to establish a Godly kingdom on Earth. The idea that America is somehow a modern-day Israel is often mixed with that and that as a sinful nation it will be under judgement for those sins. There are sound Biblical arguments that any nation which revels in sin will indeed suffer for doing so but that’s the law of cause and effect not part of some special covent given to a gentile nation as a basis for manifest destiny. Rather than being salt and light (ie Ambassadors witnessing to the power of Christ to redeem) those who follow this line of thinking set themselves up as judges and rulers trying to force others to salvation through pious behaviour regardless of whether or not they possess a saving faith. That is an utterly incoherent proposition.
Virginia doesn’t look on Justine as a poor sinner like herself to be saved because I suspect she no longer sees herself as a sinner. She was a sinner and that’s why she needed to be saved, but now she’s saved sinning is something other people do because they don’t follow the rules and she does. After all, she no longer practices homosexuality so clearly she has overcome - or if we are being generous, she believes the power of the Holy Spirit has overcome - her sinful nature. Forgetting her own filthiness she has no interest in meeting Justine as an equal and because of that she can’t offer Justine compassion. Rather than seeing a wounded person in need of love, Virginia sees an enemy to be overcome.
All Virginia achieves is to further entrench Justine in her own opinion that the Gospel isn’t something for her and indeed is something created by bigoted people to make the hate this world expresses towards gender and sexual non-conformity all the more oppressive. So Justine is left in her own spiral of pain, looking to remedies of the flesh for an inner ache which is fundamentally spiritual, losing herself in a Faustian bargain where Void anaesthetises her to her pain but robs her of everything which might give her life positive meaning.
It grieves my soul that so many people are not just lost but actively driven away from the Gospel by supposedly devout Christians who would rather judge them than show them compassion. They remind me of the Pharisees whom Jesus called White-Washed Tombs, holy on the outside but corrupt within.
Only Natalie can say for sure if Virginia is intended to be one of their number but I feel she’s written and performed in such a way that she does not have to be and that she should therefore be given the benefit of the doubt. Will she get over herself in the sequel and be the force for good she clearly wants to be? I really hope so.
@@EleanorMcHugh You were almost compassionate...but then you got caught up in listening to yourself philosophizing. Don't be a Virginia❤️
The Virginias of the world need compassion just as much as you or I.
So. I am a gay recovering meth addict. This episode was everything I can say about addiction. And the moment when She took the void. Crap. My mind just went into. Idk. I’ve been there. Not knowing life and how to move on and suddenly just a drop makes you feel the best you have ever been. That’s the appeal. So seeing a moment like that, after having been through that and every moment after, I can say,
This was worth the wait.
10/10
Absolutely stunning.
What hit me was the perfectly expressed depression, especially when it was just her alone smoking in the bathtub.
That's what it was like for me when I was still a deeply closeted trans man. It's what it's like for my husband right now dealing with PTSD. Natalie really hit some uncomfortable truths right on point.
Hope you're doing well. 😊
“A five alarm lesbo cosplaying as a trad wife” absolutely SENT ME 😂😂
I had to pause because I was laughing so hard
Former Q follower here. I have already deleted this comment once because of anxiety. Just want to say that your ability to conceptualize and articulate both sides is incredible and I wish we saw more people that had this level of understanding for both sides. Also have to mention the production quality. I’ve paid for many movies that can’t hold a candle to your videos. You are doing something special whether you realize it or not.
What is a woman?
@@mooocowcowcowmooo what is love? Baby don’t hurt me…
@@mooocowcowcowmooo What if the world was made of pudding?
Q is half truths and half BS. False flag. PSY OP. Duh.
@@DoormanSoorman But what actually is a woman?
Wow... people are going to think the blonde girl is a strawwoman, but she is actually so spot-on to someone I know it terrifies me to think that's a whole archetype. Then again, this is also a great adaptation of Christian Woman by Type O Negative. I needed this so thank you.
Yep.
I have met several people like this and they can be super preachy and annoying.
They are mostly all Born Again types like this.
didnt think id find another type o fan in the comments but yes!
A person just like that is currently running for office in Michigan
She is literally the Pastor of my old church, except a woman, which he would hate so bad lmfaooooo
aren't all 3 of them blonde? or is that your point?
"You got a guy? A semen guy?"
"That's just most guys"
The material is really tough in this video but the jokes are so well fucking done. As every topic gets darker the humour just gets better at balancing it all out. A big fan
When you think/look at it, the text and visual imagery is so dense! Surely there's an innuendo.
"It's just a simple matter of giving up the only thing that makes me feel like life is worth living" is such a good summary of addiction
As a conversion therapy survivor i am very grateful for this video. Only this year i actually started going to therapy and i can see some major improvements in my daily life and patterns of thinking. But I'm still unsure what's it going to take to actually heal that wound and learn how to live / cope with the shame.
I think healing and learning to live with these painful past experiences are the same thing. Traumatizing past experiences do not go away, but they will occupy relatively less space in our life once we address the patterns of thinking they have lead too and once we enrich our life with other things. Sounds like that is exactly what you are doing and you are doing it very well. Expecting to get rid of the pain is perhaps something to let go off as an end goal to achieve. Ideologies that promise a painless life are based on delusion, and chemically induced absence of pain is also clearly not the answer. Suffering is just a part of it, we should not let suffering take over our life, and the same counts for attempting to numb suffering.
Anyway, I admire you and wish you all the best!!!
I hope you understand now that the Bible doesn't condemn loving same-sex relationships, and it's not God who's obsessed with people's genitals and private consensual sex. Spending all your time thinking about whether other people are having proper sex is a mental health problem, like OCD. It's not biblical.
@@Sarcasticron Yes, the Bible has done worse things than this actually. Aside from the constant gaslighting Christians have done to minorities and numerous warcrimes, the Bible is nothing more but a sandman’s tale in which people occasionally cherrypick from when it benefits their narrative.
@@Sarcasticron I'm sure you mean well, but isn't it an issue with the wording that the bible gets referenced in support of homophobia? Not that it's absolutely correct to do so, but for example, the whole man lying with man bit has been put into a homophobic context numerous times. I wouldn't call the bible inherently homophobic, but you have to acknowledge it specifically gets used as an authoritative tool to push ignorance and trauma.
For something that's "not biblical," it's something that has been interpreted as biblical by others since before we were born. To me it makes sense to blame both the individual and their instruction (specific religious teachings/bible) rather than just the individual. The bible has gone though many edits, most minor some controversial, so there was and is plenty of opportunities to change the wording to not sound homophobic if they cared. That's a very simple solution assuming you understand it's "proper" interpretation. Then there'd be no argument about proper interpretation and individuals couldn't cite it in favor of homophobia.
Plenty of great religious people/organizations/books/etc. out there too, I don't mean to be a negative Nancy 🌈
I have found that trauma is less about healing a sound, finding a cure, fixing the broken. We can learn better ways of dealing with the worst if it, learn to live with what we can't change, but most of all accept who we are now such that we can learn to love that person.
Learning to love yourself is a difficult and dark path. Sometimes a start is seeing the person you are to those that love you. Over time I have learner to like the person that I am now... Perhaps I'll learn to love her in the future....
I'm so happy she brought Jackie back. Loved that character in the Transtrender video.
She seems like a thoroughly insuferable person to be around in real life....but as a character? She's scenery chewing gold. I love her entire vibe. I also love how subtly different all three characters' accents are. Justine has that quintessential hyper educated east coast liberal tone. Jackie sounds like a Real Houswives character from Queens whose mantra in life is "Rosé All Day." And Virginia has a certain cringey midwestern earnestness.
Natalie's videos have so many amazing elements that it's sometimes easy to overlook just what a great actor she is....in terms of voice, body language, facial expression, all of it...
"You know that what you're saying is indefensible so instead of saying it outright, you just talk about your freedom to say it." So well put. Thanks for putting into words a feeling I have when listening to many podcasts and conversations about gender, identity, CRT, etc. :)
That was the best part.
Timestamp please. Watched it earlier, wanted to show that part to a friend.
I'm sure everyone who doesn't believe in your ideology secretly thinks their ideas are false as well....
@@Ur3rdiMcFly 7:35 :)
GOD I love this. Like it’s not just the dialogue. The body language of each character is so distinct. It’s just SO well done. Natalie doesn’t just set up caricatures to knock them down. They’re annoying in a real way and well-rounded in a real way. (And totally dumb in varying degrees in a real way 😂.)
“Or worse, Episcopalians” is a very old-timey punchline. Very good.
I'm an ex-evangelical turned leftist Episcopalian and this made me feel so seen lol
Het team of writers worked overtime to come up with that one
This warmed my Episcopalian heart lol
"Well, at least they're not Unitarians" is what I was waiting for, but you're right, that line was the ur-joke and it's beautiful.
the cringe..
I didn’t think the dead naming would make me as angry as it did but every “Justin” just pissed me off more and more.
Excellent video! As always!
That’s how you know Natalie’s acting and production is on point. As always.
Me too
Hey Natalie, I know you're probably not gonna read this, but this video out of all the videos you've made really hit me. I'm a bisexual trans man who grew up homeschooled in Christian fundamentalism. After being kicked out multiple times, struggling through multiple addictions, becoming homeless, and dealing with mental and physical health problems, I've been so desperate I've almost turned back to the fundamentalist community I grew up. I remember when my grandma gave me all these books by "ex-gays", when my dad threatened to send me to conversion therapy, when I lost all my friends after being outed. Something in this video just struck me and I'm only 20 minutes into it but already all these thoughts and memories shoved deep down have been triggered. When I was a child, I used to lie awake at night, hallucinating demons who were coming to take me to hell for being attracted to the girls at church. I would pray and shout and yell and scream at God for hours, begging him to take away my "sinful desires". I tried so, so hard to repress myself, that now, I don't even know who I am. I only survive day by day, trying to find a stable place to sleep and some food to eat. Thanks to this video, I'm doing some searching of the self at 12 am while mentally preparing to go to church with my family so they will let me stay with them until I get back onto my feet. I know this seems like a long, pointless rant, but all I'm trying to say is this really stirred up some shit in my mind and its forcing me to think about things I wanted to forget.
this was so heartbreaking to read. i'm wishing you the best on your journey and sending you a big hug
Hey 👋, you should look into some LGBTQ organizations in your state to see if they can offer any refuge. I don’t think it’s a good idea to go back home because you’d end up getting back on your feet in a hostile community. If you’re between a rock in hard place, you should exercise your best judgement when dealing with this really tough decision. If you do end up going back into that poor environment don’t give up hope for a better future, take care of yourself. Listen to relaxing music, interact via discord or reddit, read some good books. Religious communities go after the moods of their victims through many different avenues. I wish you good luck!
Hey man, there are people out there that will love you for who you are. You don't have to stay with your abusive and controlling family. Please believe me, you are going up be ok without them.
there is so much out there for you, it won't be easy. everyday will be hard but you can get out of your situation if you push yourself. i relate a lot to your story and just know you're not alone. life is what you make it to a certain extent. go after what you want in this life while you still are able.
I hope you get away from them as rapidly as possible, and to somewhere you can be yourself.❤️🌈
thank you for suckering me into accidentally watching an artistic and philosophical masterpiece that made me engage with uncomfortable topics. An unexpected improvement to my mind and person, while I was literally just looking for some light entertainment to put up in the background. Just gotta love the internet, with creators like you on it.
I really see Mother Lucy as the inner dialogue of an addict. “I will stay here and remind you that your pain is optional: I see someone who is sad, and that’s pathetic” absolutely hit me to my core. These thoughts are so consuming and persistent, they really are like an outer influence shoving a very convincing argument in your head. When you’re already a “parched land” it doesn’t take very much push at all. Sometimes it only takes 10 minutes, like the conversation here, and every time I’m also surprised with myself how little it took to push me over the edge. The dark fingernails are such an important detail too. I always know I’m slipping when my nails and hands are constantly dirty, and it can also be interpreted as slowly dying while still alive, as it feels when you’re sucked further into the cyclical hell that is addiction.
I’m too touched by this video. While I’ve been clean for 6 years, the symbolism and accuracy and nuances Natalie brought to play still shook me to my core. Thank you so much for your work. ♥︎
i still don't know how to argue against it. everything that stops me totally destroying myself is feeling bad for the effect on other ppl & financial limits.
if someone is in bad physical pain, we expect that their pain should be stopped. but if you are in equally bad pain mentally & no other options other than "the void" stop it, you're supposed to just stay there in pain forever. how do i convince myself that's a good choice? choose pain over relief, over and over again... it's so so hard.
i look at anyone long term clean like some kind of superhero bc they can constantly make that choice, after experiencing the pain relief. i remember someone saying "addiction is the only illness where you feel better recovered than you did before you got sick" ofc that's not true for everyone, but i would maybe. just titanium strength. congrats x
@@amagicallaura I don’t who you are but we can absolutely talk to each other anywhere like discord or something. I’m also an addict and maybe we could have a meaningful and meaningless conversation about it and learn something and maybe help each other, idk. I haven’t slept in like 2 days pls don’t judge my empathetic impulsivity 😭
Congrats on your sobriety
@@ididntchooseityet7018 some people are very nice
@@amagicallaura I'm a fent iv addict too and I can't stop because it's so hard stopping after years.
The short conversation about having desire vs acting on it is the main talking point in Muslim circles, and as someone who grew up Muslim and LGBTQ, it really hit me. This whole video really struck a chord in me.
That's also a talking point in "Side B" Christianity where Christians accept the desire but decide to remain single and celibate until death 🙃
@@joelbedulla4 I was told that being queer was a test that God had set for us and that we weren't supposed to act on it. It's incredibly cruel when you're told that the only way for you to gain God's favor is to die alone and unhappy.
Yeah, as a Queer ex-Muslim, I personally think it gets unbearable of a burden very quickly and I'm like borderline aro/ace! I can't imagine being horny all the time or needing a partner and repressing that much. It really isn't healthy.
Dude as a gay Muslim too, you have no idea how many times I've heard this exact sentence.
Do any of you watch Apostate Prophet?
I'm glad Natalie makes a point not to just reaffirm the things most leftists already believe. She didn't make this video just to say "Christians bad" or "conservatives bad," this video asks us to reflect on the hunger in ourselves. Christians, especially the ones who used to be addicts, are often the people who speak the loudest about the hunger, so I think it makes a lot of sense to frame the debate how she did. Still, it's honestly such a bold choice to have the Christian be the one to challenge the hunger since so many queer people (Natalie's main audience) have been so hurt by Christianity and the Christians in their lives. She really has a talent for navigating complex issues like this and empathizing with (and even learning from) problematic people's points of view without endorsing them.
The nuance in all her work is simply glorious and so important.
You could even read the Christian's embrace of faith as a different from of "void." Clinging desperately to something to try making a difficult situation manageable.
I think that's part of the point, that Justine and Virginia are not so unalike. They both feel internalized shame and fill their longing for happiness and belonging with different, yet both destructive in different ways, coping mechanisms.
This shows how two different people can watch the same thing and take two totally different meanings from it. I think that’s a good thing. We’re you saw a Christian challenging the “ hunger”. I saw it as saying Christian’s are just like all the other people hungering and using Christianity to fill that hunger. It’s good for different people to be able to take away different perspectives on things.
I did like the line, “everything you’re saying sounds to me like you’re gay and you hate yourself. I couldn’t have put it less succinctly.”
I just rewatched this for maybe the millionth time and I felt an overwhelming urge to express how much I hope you are doing well Natalie.
I know a dude from the high school that was nicknamed "The Hunger" after getting kicked out of an all-you-can-eat buffet for eating too much food.
I don't know what that has to do with the video, but looking forward to watching it.
Are they allowed to kick out of those places, merely for following the instruction to eat all you can??
"The hunger" is not a nickname that rolls of the tongue very well.. "hey the hunger, how did you do on your test?"
@@jp9707 Right??! HE WAS JUST DOING HIS BEST. 😭
@@jp9707 I'm pretty sure they operate like an "unlimited" internet or phone plan. They advertise it that way thinking no one will go past a limit because it's "unreasonable". Then someone goes past the limit and bye bye profit lol
@@KaliBeatsYoSoyAquel the petty part of me wants to try the buffet thing just so i could draw Golden Corral into expensive, frivolous litigation over what constitutes "all you can eat". I'd buy tv slots, televise it, stream it. This is why I should win the lottery
Shout out to my best boy Dan, who decided he needed one last drop and succumbed to The Void two weeks ago. I almost did years ago, so I know that place. Solidarity with everyone here who is struggling or knows someone who is or has. 🖤
Wait is he still alive? The Void doesn’t sound good.
@@christiangasior4244 No, he passed away
@@christiangasior4244 He relapsed, and died of a heroin/fentanyl overdose
@@edwinrollins142 omg I’m so sorry. I lost my dog a week ago and that was devastating to me, but I’ve never really lost any person I’ve known in person. That said, I had this friend named David who I had known since was 13 and I just turned 37 so I knew him up until half a year ago. He was told not to drink anymore because his mom found in bed drenched in blood because he was puking up blood. The last text I got from him, which is from last April, he said he had found sound of his dads norco’s which is an opioid and I could also tell he was drinking. He said he wanted to kill himself also but he always said stuff like that. My guess would be he died from just ingesting that stuff because he was def not supposed to be drinking, let alone mixing downers. He was kind of a mean guy but I understood him. He kind of was my dark side except he only had one side whereas I have like 2 or more. I really hate not knowing what exactly happened but we talked daily and I looked for him in the basketball forums he posted in and he stopped the same night I last talked to him. I know in real life it must be worse though. You’re doing the right thing by talking about it. I tend to bottle everything up and it’s very bad. Much love to you and Dan’s family and loved ones. I’m Sparklehorse1985 on discord if you ever need someone to talk to
I myself am also on methadone because I used to be heroin addict when I was with this girl who was kinda like Amber Heard if you followed the Johnny Depp trial. Her name was Amber too but yeah her mom saw I wanted out and decided to see if they could get me hooked on heroin as a way of keeping me dependent on them.
A friend of mine died this year.
We used to sit together every time that was a new video of you to watch and talk about.
I loved how u described the void.. because it was his own.. how when he wanted to quiet he told me ok I will give up of the one thing that make life bearable
He would had loved the video and saw soo much of himself. Would not had saved him, but would had bring one nice day with him sharing this experience
Thanks
I'm sorry for your loss, man.
This is so hard. If you would like someone to talk to, call local hospices they may offer free grief counseling.
I hope you're doing alright. I'm so sorry for your loss, it never gets less painful to lose someone we love. But the pain does ebb away, it will become better or it will become easier. I hope it does for you, I wish you all the love you can have. Godspeed, my friend.
My condolences.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Loss is hard, i hope you're ok.
I have a chronic joint and muscle condition in my legs that affects my ability to walk. One day earlier this year I was in so much pain that even sitting down hurt no matter how I positioned myself. I had to be sent home from school early because I couldn't walk anywhere without feeling like crying. When I got home going up and down the stairs felt like literal torture, but I finally got some relief in lying down on my bed. When I got to bed I checked my phone and this video came up on my UA-cam feed. Ended up spending the whole day watching a wonderful channel I'd never heard of before then. Turned an otherwise shitty painful day into a nice memory. Thanks for that
How are you doing now?
I love the juxtaposition of intellectual confidence and sense of superiority (somewhat justified) in public debate, and then the internal loneliness, shame and despair in private. It was a beautiful, both visually and philosophically, depiction of addiction. The incredible amount of work that must of went into this production is mind melting. I often found myself feeling guilty for only agreeing with the leftist character in the initial skit, despite the nonsensical caricatures across the room. A simply gorgeous video, this woman is one of the most creative and thought provoking creators in media.
Yes, because knowing you're correct doesn't always soothe you emotionally.
Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.
Socrates instrumentalized convenient idiots, too. It plays.
@@erich5686 u ok?
My thoughts exactly
Hey Natalie, I don't know if you'll read this but this has really helped me. Am processing a break up at the moment and still every saturday I get rat-arsed blind drunk. Don't drink on the other days but I literally have no stop button and your video helped put into words how I'm feeling and I'm pretty hungover tbh but thanks you're amazing
Check out the book Alcohol Explained! It's really helped me change the way I look at alcohol.
Nothing is more honest and authentic than the words of a thankfull drunk
we've got this - we're going to be okay. from one struggling soul to another we're going to be okay.
breakups are horrible. you will get through this, though.
@@sparkymularkey6970 Oh thank you didn't realise I had so many replies T.T I shall take a look fine internet stranger
I can't express how amazingly rewatchable all of your videos are. I don't have a comfort show, I have a comfort UA-camr
Amen!
Get it, coz of all the religious stuff?
Ye you get it
Rewatching this vid right now and you are correct and not alone!
Amen indeed. And this video in particular.
I've rewatched all of Contra's old videos....some many times.
But I've seen _this_ one like 5 times since it came out. Something about it is deeply comforting in a strange way. It's a bit ASMR in a way. I like how long it is....it's something I can put on while drifting between awake and asleep.
@@avedic I feel the same way. This video and envy are always on my recommended page because I watch them so much. Also, this video made me go back and rewatch her transtrenders video (which was the first one I ever saw) because it has the same format and multiple recurring characters, and it’s amazing to see how her videos are constantly improving in the way they’re filmed and edited. I didn’t notice the first time I watched it that the transtrenders video didn’t include a wide shot of all three characters until i saw it in the hunger
Same!
This is by far my favorite contrapoints piece (and i love all her content just to be clear). I come back here every once in a while cause i find it comforts me. I hope she continues the story someday. It makes me feel so seen and sad also, in a way that is hard to explain. It's like when you're about to cry and someone hugs you, you can't contain yourself you just let go in the most human way possible. ❤
oh my god... I've never seen such an accurate, such an EXACT depiction of what my addiction feels like.that last scene- the regret and desperation, the resolve to stop, time and time and time again, the gnawing, unshakeable urge... I wont disclose what the addiction is but its bad. its bad. even if this is all fiction, I feel a little less alone and a little more understood. thank you.
Quitting is super hard but also easier than you think
You can do this, I believe in you 💕
You’re strong and I believe in you
Natalie brought me to the edge but you made the tears spill over.
Natalie shared on her instagram that she struggled badly with addiction as well. I'm not sure if it was benzodiazepines ( i went to check but couldn't find the post) or some kind of opiates, so I'm not surprised she depicted this so perfectly.
Upon rewatch, I think I have a drinking problem. I’m gonna tell my therapist and stop before it gets out of hand. Thank you Natalie. ❤
sending you support
I have faith in you
i know this was a month ago, but i hope you're doing alright ❤️
^^ keep at her!
I hope you're doing well!
an emotional and fantastic return.
Hi PW you're a hero and I love you 💖
A year later and I'm still catching things I never noticed before. Like at 19:28 where Virginia is saying how she felt at her lowest - and it shows her in the different seats of the characters. Justine: alone, Jackie: an addict, and Virginia: lost. It's like a subtle revealing of each character's Achilles heel, and how they've found themselves on the path they are on. A lot of these little symbolisms are so easy to miss but noticing it really makes you appreciate how much thought and creative detail she put into this ❤
Edit: Loneliness, Addiction, Being Lost - All these things could be seen as, well... The Hunger! So cool that towards the end of the debate Justine and Virginia acknowledge that "we all feel the hunger" and that they actually do deeply relate to each other because of these empty holes in their lives. There are moments that they come so close to actual compassion and understanding of each other, like when Justine talls about love. But it's like their own pride, self-loathing, and wounds from their upbringing, repels them away from a genuine moment of empathy and care for one another. As one of the many queer people with Christian upbringing trauma, this video has helped so so much in unpacking my experience. And the realizations I've had through watching these characters really speaks to how complex they are - beyond just simple parodies that most people fall into doing. It's really inspiring honestly.