High Performance Windows with European Architectural Supply.
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2024
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Jake chats with Patrik Muzilla from European Arch Supply, based in Massachusetts about the company's high performance windows for passive homes.
Before diving into the window features and benefits, it's important to note the process that the company employs when it comes to purchasing windows.
At the beginning of Jake's project, he sent architectural drawings with specs, performance goals, and needs on exterior and interior.
From there the company looked at the blueprint, desired sizes, and vision to provide advice in terms of engineering, feasibility and managing costs. Later they sent shop drawings and coordinated an efficient approval process. After dealing with many large U.S. companies, Jake was very impressed with this part of the process. Shop drawings also protect the manufacturer, ensuring everyone is on the same page.
On this particular job, they decided to go with the PVC windows due to cost considerations and the two will take a look at the features. Tune in. - Наука та технологія
These European tilt swing windows are amazing. Triple Pane glass is a must for a well-insulated high-performance home.
Although not all vinyl is created equal and there are different quality grades, all vinyl windows whether Euro or North American use uPVC in frame manufacture despite the very common suggestion that Euro windows use uPVC and north American windows use "vinyl" (insert disdainful sneer). They are all unplasticized polyvinyl.
The NFRC (National Fenestration Rating Council) oversees and lists window energy performance ratings in North America and if you want to know how a specific window performs you can find the information about it there, but many European imports are not listed in NFRC website suggesting that they have not been tested to North American standards.
Euro and NFRC windows are not tested using identical criteria. The obvious is that Euro windows are in metric while NFRC uses Imperial. In addition, Euro testing measures frame, sash, edge-of-glass (glass within 2 1/2" of the edge), and center-of-glass (all glass not within 2 1/2" of edge), as four separate areas, while NFRC combines frame and sash, so three separate areas. Also, NFRC temperature variation used in testing is more severe than Euro window testing which is based on a warmer cold limit.
The warmer low-end temperature used in European testing tends to favor wider airspaces so that a wider airspace is a feature of Euro glass packages, but there are also North American manufacturers who have a preference for wider spaces as well even though it's not an advantage when tested to NFRC criteria.
Because of the differences in how the windows are tested, you cannot compare results and call them the same, it doesn't work. However, you can convert the Euro metric U factor result to imperial using a very simple formula and some European window companies and especially their importers (and sales force) in North America do it quite often.
The result of converting metric Euro U factor to Imperial U factor is a listed performance value that appears to be better than the actual window performance value if the unit had been tested using NFRC criteria. In other words, "fenestration style" sticker may be correct as a value when comparing to other Euro windows to one another but is an apples to oranges comparison when compared with NFRC derived numbers. The European performance values appear to be better than they would be if tested using NFRC testing and certification criteria.
Also, it isn’t uncommon for some Europhiles to use center-of-glass measurements to describe window performance. Two reasons that thus is wrong. First, the value will be inflated assuming that the COG measurement was computed using the conversion from Euro derived values, second center-of-glass should NEVER be used to describe window performance because it is NOT an accurate representation of window performance. It’s a good way to describe glass performance is you want to compare glass to glass, and not window to window.
The warmest part of any window is COG and using that rating as a performance value, rather than complete window value is at best misleading and at worst dishonest. And even if R 9 is appropriately correct, it equates to U.11, which is available on US glass packages as well. Ultimately, I am not knocking Euro windows, I think that they make some amazing products and I am very impressed but many I have seen. What I am commenting on is the misleading information that seems to accompany discussions about performance comparisons between Euro and North American products.
There are North American windows that are every bit as good as anything coming from Europe. The problem isn't a technology gap, it's a perception and cultural gap. Window companies manufacture what sells. Europe has much more stringent performance requirements and a different consumer perception of priorities which results in windows that were designed and manufactured to meet those perceptions and requirements, while North American codes and perceptions are generally different from those in Europe.
I am the owner of Laurel Windows in Brevard, NC which is a premium level dealer of Oknoplast windows from Europe and we have all products NFRC rated and are nationally certified for R, LC, CW, and AW project with both our full aluminum products as well as our UPVC products. But when you see the construction of these products and see what you get for what you pay, you truly can’t compare. It is near impossible to ever consider taking an American window out of a home after 20 years and expect it to be usable in another project where as with these tilt/turn windows, I have personal experience doing just that, in Europe my brother in law was upgrading his windows on his home after a remodel and kept several of his older windows to put in his new garage he had built and after installation and some light adjustments the windows operated flawlessly and were roughly 18-20 years old. We are one of 18 dealers in the US for Oknoplast and you should give us a look.
Laurelwindows.us
Oknoplast.com
Theese windows will last 50 years without any problem. The standard in europe is really high and effiency is really really strickt in EU. Quality wise there is nothing better
Thank you @gregcorwin8316 for that very interesting and informative write up . I wonder how you learned all this information, are you in the "business" ? We're adding an addition to the rear of our "forever house" and, in addition to using high performance wall and ceiling insulation, we decided to use really good quality windows . I've spent countless hours researching all the major American companies, like Anderson ; Pella ; Marvin ; Milgard , etc., etc . Just recently, I looked into Alpen Windows, in Colorado, and was very impressed with their products and I like them much better than any other windows I have seen . Here's a fun fact : The Empire State Building replaced all of their 6514 windows with Alpen .
So, I decided to purchase Alpen's top of the line residential model , Zenith - ZR9 with Quad glazed glass using Kripton gas . BTW, the frame is fiberglass and not PVC .
@@kumaquattro-le1vk Thanks and you are welcome.
I am familiar with Alpen (and all of the other companies that you mentioned earlier in your post). Curious if you picked the Zenith specifically because it's fiberglass rather than vinyl? Alpen does make a very nice window.
I was in the industry for close to 30 years primarily in quality, code compliance, product development, product reliability, research and testing.
@@gregcorwin8316 Gregcorwin8316
Thanks for the reply Greg . I went with the fiberglass because everything I read, said good things about fiberglass vs vinyl , like less expansion, stronger, nicer appearance, etc . The Zenith is more American style and matches my other existing windows as well . I'm open to any more advise you could give me before I order these . Thanks.
One of the winodow company in Europe is Dako, they are worth checkign out
We have similar experiences with American window manufacturers
It is a shame you couldn’t tell us the price or price range for these windows.
For a house around 30 windows 2 sliding door with mosquito nets triple pane with instalation you are looking around 75000$
In Western Europe (average, it can be half the price, but also double) per square meter. Though, the more square meters a window is, the cheaper it becomes. Same with the total number of windows /square meter one orders. If you order 2 different colors for the outside and another different one for the inside, price goes up, up to 10% of total price.
PVC €200 - €400
Wood €300 - €500
Wood/Aluminum €300 - €600
Aluminum €600 - €800
Actually it’s not the most affordable profile that you can bring from Europe, we have same efficiency windows in other brands like salamander,veka ,rehau that are a bit cheaper than shucco
Hello there!
Those windows are approved by home inpectors and codes?
So Schuco windows are made in Connecticut...right?
ok do they have a screen? I've watched several videos and have not been shown a screen ? ?
Sure you can screen them. You have to have a screen made for your particular window. It's held by special clips from the outside. Supereasy to install, literally a 30 second job.
PVC seams can pop during transport or installation. You have to be really careful when moving and installing, especially with large openings. Something you may not notice for months after the Owner has moved in. Matt Reisinger brought this up in one of his presentations, and I have a personal experience with my own living room window. A simple field test would have checked for a water leak (I wish I knew at the time). I would want to see the Contractor's or Sub-Contractor's warranty and heavily lean on the Contractor to carry the installation warranty for the duration of the manufacturer's warranty. (That's likely something the sub or contractor would not be willing to agree upon) The distributor may not carry that manufacturer after a couple of years so the owner would have to deal directly with the manufacturer. The manufacturer would have to replace the window, but a new rep would have to come out first to measure the opening, and he would be looking closely for installation deficiencies that may void the warranty. At the very least the owner would have to pay for the installation.
How good is this 3rd party distributor for carrying the quality assurance on a European manufacturer's warranty? I would think he has no responsibility for Q&A any further than for delivery of what was on the shop drawings. The Contractor is responsible for the QA of the installation. That's the most important stage. Closing the openings and covering the exterior is an extremely important sequence for sealing the building and thermal envelope performance and building code requirements. WRB's are often flashed over window flanges or into the window pressure caps. A window replacement is a big delay and a big headache for who ever is responsible for the mistake.
Shop drawing reviews are not a sign-off by the Contractor and Architect - especially the Contractor - that the windows are good to go. So if a US manufacturer rep/a distributor/a subcontractor/or a contractor, does nothing more than measure and submit the rough openings to the manufacturer and no manufacturer shop drawing are produced, if a popped seam or over or undersized clearance resulted during the supply and install, the responsibility for correcting the problem would most likely fall into the Contractor's hands, but would likely be expeditiously resolved between the US window manufacturer and the Contractor, irregardless of shop drawings or no shopdrawings. Some US manufacturers send their own people out to do the sizing and installation. That beats the hell out of a shop drawings because the manufacturer will call out any issues with how the rough openings are framed, and will coordinate the fix, and still carry full responsibility on the installation to meet their warranty.
On the other hand, shop drawings are nice to have because they allow the Owner and the Architect a last chance to change their minds on the window design for cost increase/no cost increase/and cost reduction.
A custom sized window manufactured outside of the country is not a good idea in my opinion. It's a high risk to the Contractor to carry, and therefore a headache waiting to happen for the Owner and everyone else involved in the project (Me thinks so).
If you're not going PHIUS passive, it's not worth it. LEED would automatically not qualify because of distance to the site. It's a premium cost, a high risk & not a big enough difference in performance to justify. That's my opinion.
do they come with Hurricane impact glass?
It is a standard feature for European windows.
I really wanted these windows in my personal home. However, in the end my concern was finding a subcontractor who would be experienced with installing European flangeless units and dealing with possible warranty replacement/ repair issues. How are you addressing this with your clients who don’t have access to a Briton, Reisinger or Baszek?
You could install it by yourself, extremely easy. Nothing will brake in 25 years period - this is not US "technology"... There is other kind off a problem. Those windows are air tight - zero fresh air goes through. That's why in Europe you need HRV system to have fresh air inside. In US every house has more holes that Swiss cheese so in reality it doesn't make any sense to buy expensive energy efficient windows.
@@Bart-dg6qv I agree! thanks Bart
The cheap windows in Europe are as good as the premium Marvin stuff in the US. It's a shame.
unfortunately no hurricane impact tilt turn in UPVC
We have uPVC windows HVHZ certified.
What is the address and phone number
Is there really a Schucco brand ? Dont they make windows for OTHER brands that use SChucco hardware ?
Schucco's hardware is made by a company called Winkhaus!
Every modern window in Europe is like this, any brand in any country will do.
I've never head of any of these companies, they are creations for the American market.
Seriously, these windows are the cheapest, lowest spec option that we have.
It's a bit weird seeing you guys bow down worship the trailer trash level of construction standards.
@@disposabull You should see and try American windows to understand why they like these low quality ones from Europe.
@@disposabull Anyway Shueco is one if not the larger manufacturer of windows in Europe, it is not an unknown brand.
Super disappointing they won’t quote a building with less than 15-20 windows😮
This looks like a small project and we don't undertake small orders of a few units. Our smallest orders are about 15-20 units. Shipping from Europe is expensive and we have seen that clients with small orders prefer to buy locally just to save on this cost. I am sorry I cannot be of help.
please err on the side of too much manpower with these windows. i got a hurt back from literally that not being done
Wtf? There is a billions tons of plastic in oceans.
So? Stop throwing it there then.
@@vikinnorway6725 really good feedback, thank you, fully agreed, please stop it