Historical Misconceptions in Paganism
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- #paganism #pagan #paganhistory
The Top 5 Biggest Misconceptions in Paganism, providing a critical, academic perspective based on peer-reviewed sources. This video is a must-watch for anyone interested in Pagan studies, religious studies, or seeking to understand the true nature of modern Pagan practices and beliefs.
1 - The Ancient Religion Hypothesis
2 - The Great Witch Hunt and Pagan Martyrdom
3 - Christian Holidays and Pagan Origins
4 - The Universal Triple Goddess
5 - The Primordial Mother Goddess Archetype
00:00 Support Angela's Symposium
00:24 Introduction: Historical Misconceptions of Paganism
01:45 The Historicity of Paganism
03:17 Margaret Murray - the pagans' survival myth
05:01 The Great Witchhunt
06:01 Feminist Pagan Theology
09:41 The myth that Christians coopted Pagan Festivals for their Holidays
10:25 The History of Samhain
14:02 Complex syncretism between Pagan and Christian religions
15:37 The origins of Christmas and Pagan misconceptions about it
17:41 The origins of the name of Easter from Eostre and Pagan misconceptions
20:53 The concept of the Triple Goddess
23:22 The idea of the Primordial Goddess
25:20 The idea of a Mother Goddess may be patriarchal
28:20 Myth and History in Individual Practice
30:52 The concept of Perennialism
34:47 The importance of differentiating history and mythology in Paganism
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REFERENCES 📚
📚The Ancient Religion Hypothesis
Hutton, Ronald. "The Triumph of the Moon: A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft." Oxford University Press, 1999. This work challenges the notion that modern Paganism is a direct continuation of ancient religions by providing an extensive historical study of the origins of contemporary Pagan practices.
Magliocco, Sabina. "Witching Culture: Folklore and Neo-Paganism in America." University of Pennsylvania Press, 2004. Magliocco discusses the creation and evolution of neo-Pagan traditions and how they differ from ancient practices.
📚The Great Witch Hunt and Pagan Martyrdom
Levack, Brian P. "The Witch-Hunt in Early Modern Europe." Routledge, 2016.
Levack provides a comprehensive overview of the witch trials, debunking myths about the number of executions and their supposed link to Pagan martyrdom.
Ehrenreich, Barbara, and Deirdre English. "Witches, Midwives, and Nurses: A History of Women Healers." Feminist Press at CUNY, 1973.
This book explores the feminist perspective on witch hunts, though it has been critiqued for its historical accuracy.
📚Christian Holidays and Pagan Origins
Hijmans, Steven. "Sol Invictus, the Winter Solstice, and the Origins of Christmas." Mouseion Series III, Vol. 3, 2003. Hijmans argues against the direct pagan origins of Christmas, suggesting a theological basis for the date.
Hutton, Ronald. "Stations of the Sun: A History of the Ritual Year in Britain." Oxford University Press, 1996. Hutton examines the complexities of Easter's origins and the speculative connection to Eostre.
📚The Universal Triple Goddess
Graves, Robert. "The White Goddess: A Historical Grammar of Poetic Myth." Faber & Faber, 1948. Graves' book is the source of the Universal Triple Goddess concept, which subsequent scholars have critically examined.
Wood, Juliette. "The Concept of the Goddess." Routledge, 1996. Wood critiques the Triple Goddess concept, discussing its modern construction rather than ancient universality.
📚 The Primordial Mother Goddess Archetype
Gimbutas, Marija. "The Language of the Goddess." Harper & Row, 1989. Gimbutas' work on the Goddess hypothesis is seminal but has been challenged by later scholars.
Hawkes, Jacqueline. "Dawn of the Gods." Chatto & Windus, 1968. Hawkes is critical of projecting modern concepts, such as the Mother Goddess, onto ancient societies.
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It's very important to be able to differentiate between myth and misinformation in pagan circles. The "nine million witches burned" always rubbed me the wrong way as trying to appropriate the Holocaust for victim points, when the thousands of innocent people that really were burned were thousands too many as it is and deserve to be remembered for the real tragedy it was and not a hyperbolic number.
I feel like the Holocaust has given people a completely out of wack scale when it comes to genocide and attrocities in general. But like the reason why the Holocaust is remembered as the greatest crime is exactly because a completely unheard of number of people were murdered, not to mention the use of industrial technology to accomplish a crime of such a scale. It also doesn't help that people have tried to use the Holocaust as a rhetorical device to advance their own ideology like in the Black Book of Communism, which was clearly entirely written with the intent to make the Holocaust look small by comparison. But like the scale of a crime doesn't determine how wrong it was, we don't treat murder as a minor crime, it just determines the horror of the crime. The Holocaust wasn't wrong because millions were killed, it was wrong because it was a genocide and it wouldn't have been any less wrong if only thousands or hundreds or one person had died.
@@hedgehog3180it was the amount of people killed and the fashion they were killed in.
We always hear about the Holocaust but never the Holodomor which killed more people.. wonder why ..
It's a really unique perspective to say that the practices don't need a historical lineage to be justified. It reminds me of the perspective a lot of chaos practitioners have of the belief in the ritual is what makes it effective not the dogma tied to it.
Is it, though? I have never thought practices need a historical lineage, especially ill-informed ones.
Spiritual practices connect me with ... Spirit. What use could a historical lineage add to that?
History is a construct built on biases and assumptions. Just because something is considered historical, does not ensure that it is factual. You need to differentiate between history and fact, and as you said sometimes what we consider to be fact is a moving target, due to missing information or mistakes. I do commend your view that modern practitioners don't need historicity to justify or validate their modern religious practice.
30:15 "The value is in the transformative experience that the person has via the adoption of that belief." Bravo! I could not agree more.
Thank you, Mark 🥰
I love your remarks at the end about something being important spiritually to someone without necessarily having evidence historically. I’m both a pagan spiritually and a history nerd, but I understand that my beliefs are my beliefs and not necessarily founded in historical evidence or even believed by anyone else. They are MY beliefs and they are valid to me. I strongly believe spirituality is something very personal and unique to each individual even if you belong to an established group. While I absolutely adore history, I don’t need my spiritual beliefs to align with it. History is history, and spirituality is spirituality. If they overlap, cool! If they don’t, that’s cool too! ❤
Most old ideas sucked ass too so something being old is hardly a mark of authority or credibility.
@@hedgehog3180most isn’t fair. Some would be more fair- as if current ideas don’t suck sometimes too?
This was fantastic, Angela! Thank you so much for uploading and sharing with us all!
That's so lovely of you, Benebell! You're amazing, yourself 🥰
One of the best demonstrations of excellent scholarship in religious studies. Brava!
Such an incredible presentation. Sadly these misconceptions are so prevalent in pagan circles.
I've mostly stopped trying to correct people, but if any of these come up again in conversation, I'll definitely be sharing this video. You laid everything out so well, and your tone was perfect. It was just the right combination of informative, respectful, and compassionate.
I especially love how you emphasis that a spirituality doesn't need to be ancient or historical in order to be valid. I think that's a major stumbling block for many modern pagans. It's definitely something I've struggled with myself. Thank you for the important reminder.
So glad I found your channel. 💜
Thank you for this lecture, it was very interesting. It seems to me to come down to the age old debate between the values of rhetoric (lived experiences) and logic (factual evidence), both valid but competing positions.
This is an important conversation that would be helpful for those new to paganism or witchcraft. The assumption that there is a universal truth that is the base of the "correct belief or practice" is at the root of tensions and infighting in the modern pagan community. I understand it is easier to absorb what one thinks they need to know to begin a meaningful practice if everything can be distilled down to one way. It is overwhelming to learn about all the beliefs and practices of cultures around the world; both living traditions and past customs. Then we see the formation of universal correspondences which are a modern creation and are entirely restrictive and not necessarily effective. The important takeaway is that a fulfilling belief or efficacious practice does not require it to be based on a universal understanding. You miss out on the richness derived through cultural immersion and appreciate the differences among them. This is the error of universal Shamanism and the result is folks who feel they have no cultural connection reaching for something believed to be universal that could enrich their lives. In any case, being curious and truly valuing connection is a great way to move about modern paganism. To those at the beginning of their pagan exploration, I say stay flexible. More than one thing can be true at the same time.
Excellent presentation!
It never ceases to amaze me how these tendencies seem to seep into every form of modern pagan practice, even when explicit care has been taken to make sure that they don't...
I might have shared the story with you previously that I wrote a particular hymn in Latin in 2003, and was identified in various publications as the author of the hymn/the poet that originated it. (Whether it has any merit spiritually, or is a good piece of Latin writing, is for others to judge--some have said a very definite "no!" on the latter question!) Around five years ago, I started seeing certain people speaking of that particular piece as being an "ancient hymn" from this tradition. Uhh...no! But, I am sure there are some people who would choose to die on that hill of saying that it is ancient, or possibly recovered/downloaded from an ancient source and simply transmitted through me in a particular time and place. when the reality is actually quite different.
I think it says a lot about modern minority religion practitioners that they seek this idea of "authenticity" and "validity" and equate it with "antiquity," even when they might also simultaneously accept and endorse newer practices as also being valid and effective. It's a strange variety of cognitive dissonance, I think, and one that in certain cases I have less tolerance for because I was literally "there" (and quite essential!) to the origins of some of these things.
Ironically seeking authority from the supposed age of something is however an ancient and almost universal human practice. I guess it's the inevitable inverse of complaining about whatever is new and whatever the kids are doing.
Wonderful talk, Doc. Thanks for giving Dr. Hutton a mention, as well. I'm sure we'd all love to see another video/interview with the two of you one day. Cheers!
I spent a lot of time with him yesterday, we were both invited speakers at the Witchfest in London!
@@drangelapuca Excellent!
I prefer you talking in this pace, i feel other of your pre recored videos you read off a script. For some reason, listening ti you naturally speak i can grasp all you are teaching. Thank you for uploading this
This was fascinating and it is so refreshing to see a refrain from adhominum and gender division. Your talk was a breath of fresh air and an ocean away from the usual progressive ideology that's funneled through any kind of talk of "paganism".
I have just subscribed! Thanks!
Dr. Puca - I admire your intellectual honesty and commitment to the truth.
Wonderful lecture, most interesting. Thank you for sharing Angela ✌️ ❤
Glad it was helpful!
The example in your talk about Hekate really reminded me of Cyndi Brannen’s interpretation of Hekate worship.
Great lecture once again Angela, for me personally its quite refreshing to hear you speak on these things as you are presenting in a very educated unbiased manner. The world is better for having you at this time thank you!
Wishing you Peace, Protection and Blessings in abundance!!!🤟🕊❤️🔥🤙♾️
I think there are two kinds of philosophies/religions at the core of the human attitude toward the world: working and living with Nature and all its manifestations, or against Her. This cannot work at a superficial level but must be deeply felt tangibly. Now that we and our cultures are all inspired by one mighty god, handing over the Earth to man for his exploitation, I think humanity must get closer and respect nature above himself, which can only be done through our emotions and experience. If Nature were our Gods, we wouldn't poison her atmosphere, the oceans, and rivers; we wouldn't destroy the Earth but respect Her and feel Her above and with us. We need Nature, and not the other way around.
So, I was always more drawn to Taoism, Shamanism, and European Paganism, which strongly sustains such principles. As the new generations must save this planet, there is no other choice for avoiding assured extinction. I believe that this path is much more appropriate for the survival of humanity-building a sustainable world in our real lives and in accord with its spirituality-than worshiping a single almighty god disconnected from our life support.
Adam Flint, author of "Mona."
Note: I have mixed feelings about this conference. The arguments are articulated around the idea of "misconceptions by modern pagans." Sure, the embodiment of Paganism in our modern society cannot be a pure duplicate of ancient religions, for many reasons: the rarity and partiality of sources (often from Christianity seeking to destroy them), the natural variability of practices, the fact that, of course, the Catholic Church did not only burn witches but also heretics of other kinds including deviant Christians from a centralized dogma, men or women (also Jews, Muslims, homosexuals), and sometimes called people witches or sorcerers who were not. Yet, Christianity did persecute systematically pagans in many ways and largely beyond burning witches and sorcerers at the stake (which they did in large numbers, though, as a pretense for something else or not). None of this is a scoop, really, and this discourse that seems to excuse Christianity from its crimes and intolerance looks like hiding the forest behind the tree and providing a distraction. Angela is not as objective as she pretends. Then there is the argument of syncretism that I find ridiculous in this context of extreme repression, and when, clearly, Paganism predated Christianity. I don't call forcing conversions with violence "syncretism."
Absolutely brilliant talk, thank you Dr Angela
Very interesting! You did a great presentation here-Thank you so much for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wow Angela another great video! I am differently going to save this to watch again!
Yay! Thank you!
Thank you so much for all the work you do!!!
You are so welcome!
Brava! Ho imparato. I did not know Grimm was the source of the Oestre/Easter issue.
Very interesting. Many thanks for posting this.
What a wonderful opportunity and a delightful presentation. Well done!
Glad you liked it!
Informative as always.
Thanks again!
you so smart ; ) nice to see a lucid aproach to this wonderful experience called life ...☯
Once again, Great work! To some, disappointing.. to others, disheartening.. But for All this should be Enlightening!👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Let the knowledge keep Growing..!💗
That was fantastic
BRAVA! 👏I love how you said that evidence and views may change over time. It's difficult to change the minds of people once an academic has written something and people subscribe to it. When new information is presented, we should keep an open mind to truth. My understanding of Christianity and Paganism is always evolving based on research like yours. Previous scholars published work based on material that was available in their time and we should always be open to new information. I know people become very emotional about their beliefs and history, but it's important to keep beliefs open to new perspectives and research.
Thank you so much for sharing talks like this!
On the note of the example of the viewing of Artemis and Hecate as the same deities, I would argue a practitioner actually could write books and blogs on the topic, so long as it is clearly labeled as modern theology from a practitioner, and not an academic source nor a representation of how these Deities were worshiped historically. I agree the problem comes when we confuse spiritual practice with history and academic knowledge. They both have their place!
Great talk as ever Angela - very informative. I saw your talk at Croydon's witchfest - was gonna come up and say hello a few times but chickened out lol. One day I'll hopefully meet ya properly! Blessed be.
oh no! I'm sorry we didn't get the chance to have a chat but please feel free to reach out next time you see me 🥰
👏👏👏👏👏😃 Yes, madam! Congratulations for your success, Dr. Puca! I enjoyed your interesting and captivating communication very much! Your academic work is amazing and super useful, I'm very glad to follow scholars like you! 😃 See you next time!👋
Thank you so much!
fantastic! thank you
great work, very interesting lecture. Thank you dr.Angela!
You're very welcome!
Wonder Scholar
Thank you so much for this video Angela!
You are so welcome!
Love this address! Thank you so much for your scholarship and your dedication to making it accessible.
You are so welcome!
Appreciate this, thank yoU!
My pleasure!
Completely agree 100%!! One does not need to historically validate their belief system... Monotheistic culture people try to science when they mean to religion... this whole concept of "there can be only One" is a huge distortion lens... I could make this my thesis! 😂😂
As usual, a copy of the 📜 curated transcript 📜 for this video has been sent to members of the Inner Symposium (Patreon & Ko-Fi) This is now available to all Symposiasts here www.innersymposium.study/?p=5230 with a ❓ quiz www.innersymposium.study/?page_id=4830 ❓
I’m not a scholar so I could be completely speaking from ignorance, but don’t we see legitimate triple goddesses in mythology? The Morrigan could be an example since she is often described as a part of a trio (the Morrigna). Not an expert and not trying to correct Angela! I could be completely misunderstanding. Any insight on how it relates?
Edit: realized after writing this that you have a video on this topic where you exactly answered my question 😂 I am satisfied now hahaha
If anything I think it would be more reasonable that shamanism was the “primordial” faith. We were first tribal hunter gatherers. Spirituality has always been important, and it evolves and changes over time. Though I do think the roots are probably very similar wherever you might look.
You keep it going, girl!
Great talk, thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Yea
Angela, I want to challenge you on this concept on the Mother Earth Goddess, but I will give the caveot that I believe they were not universal, but thats aside from the point.
"The Venus of Berekhat Ram (280,000-250,000 BP) is a pebble found at Berekhat Ram on the Golan Heights. The pebble was modified by early humans and is suggested to represent a female human figure"
"Zilhão, Wynn, and Mithen rejected the hypothesis on the symbolic nature of the object and, thus, rejected the idea that the object is iconic. Angela E. Close from the University of Washington also could not see a figurine of a woman in the object, but, instead, the object reminded her of a penguin and a phallus when seen from different angles."
"The Venus of Tan-Tan (supposedly, 500,000-300,000 BP) is an alleged artifact found in Morocco. It and its contemporary, the Venus of Berekhat Ram, have been claimed as the earliest representations of the human form."
"The Venus of Hohle Fels (also known as the Venus of Schelklingen; in German variously Venus vom Hohlen Fels, vom Hohle Fels; Venus von Schelklingen) is an Upper Paleolithic Venus figurine made of mammoth ivory that was unearthed in 2008 in Hohle Fels, a cave near Schelklingen, Germany. It is dated to between 40,000 and 35,000 years ago, belonging to the early Aurignacian"
"The Venus figurines of Balzi Rossi (also: Venus figurines of Grimaldi, Venus figurines from the Balzi-Rossi-Caves) from the caves near Grimaldi di Ventimiglia (Italy) are thirteen Paleolithic sculptures of the female body. Additionally, two small depictions of the human head were discovered at the same place. The age of these figurines cannot be determined because of missing archaeological context data. It is usually accepted that these figurines stem from the Gravettian, about 24,000 to 19,000 years old."
The venus figurines appear something common to AWE, ANA and anatolian preneolithic cultures. And so the question is not that the iconography was widespread but what is its meaning. In the civil context the first natural represenatiins were Apsu and his wife, what we now call Tiamat, but these two reoresented the two forms of water pure-spring water and the briney-crashy sea. These two gods give rise to in the Eridu theogeny to Enki. In a different theogeny they give rise to Ninhursag and Anu, who give rise to Enki.
But this seemingly lower mesopotamian independence has a problem.
1. Eridu liks to Samarra culture which links to Hasuna culture which links to Ararat/Caucasus/N. Zagros culture that also gives rise to the bronze age and pretty much all of the gods we are aware of. Maycopt/Kura-Araxas/Yamnaya and Jemdet Nasr/Halaf.
2. The representation of a godhead that we are remotely familiar with is associated with the male ox, and these representations are first seen at catal hoyuk in the pottery neolithic. But, and it needs to be stated that this is preceded by the mother goddess figures in the same place, and the mother goddesses in anatolia and the levant, Athirath, are linked with Ninhursag in mesopotamia.
3. Our kind of first glimpse of a modern format for a god is An of sumer, the sky god and similar motif gods are like everywhere as the historic becomes apparent. There are indoeuropean sky gods, Ba'al is the rider on the clouds, there is the Egyotian Ptah. An has a wife Ninhursag, often refered to as Ki.
4. And then we have to look at social order in that context. Cities sprung from mud, they organized into confederations. The maturing of the settlements are associated with the mud, but the ordering of the cities is associated with the sky. Ki is place. And so the mesopotamians did look at a divine female as a kind of formative being, one of the first, even if the split between Absu and his wife form the land, like a child the land then gives birth to the precivil settlements and the sky made them civil and capable to join the big boys club in Uruk.
I have this hypothesis that uruk was two villages, one was of post-halaf and was a trading outpost of Euphatean nomads and traders, while Kalluba represent a kind of the agrarian side, when these two merge to take advantages of each others strengths its about 700 years to when civilization begins to merge. I suspect the divine masculine, represented by animal husbandry comes from this and the divine feminine comes from the Ubaid culture.
And so the question was the role of the goddess in early socuety.
The issue I bring forth is the kingship ceremony and divine feminine. In this ceremony the king represents the divine masculine, the warrior and the extraurban administrator, he kepps the locals in line, finds resources (which are generally far away) and captures slaves. The divine feminine represents a form of submission, but thats a facade, because the priestly class she represents involves education, scribal authority, festival planning, basic administration, and social engineering. Kings need not exist all the time, the priestly class was constituitive.
In the period of Sargon the divine warrior, enlil, was removed from his high status and Anu was removed from hus Eanna and replaced with Isthar/Inanna. Istar is not a mother goddess, but represents seduction and war. Ishtar is the most represented god in the world for about 2000 years. That theory that goddesses were higher or lower ranking is not certain. I would say whether or not there was a "continental" matriarchal goddess really depends on how we define god, which is one reason I really dont like the word.
The god we have in the western world begins in earnest when Sargon kicks him out of the Eanna, and he becomes a mountain tabernacle god who watches over foreign trade. This represents the prototype law that was respected between micropolities that developed at the the LBAC. Isra'el, the ones who strive for El [the most high] coexisted in a "pagan" system of a mixture of substrate (Ba'alim) and mesopotamian gods (incl Dagan and Anath, Anunuki).
It is my opinion the Yahu was the Yahudite deity of Bethlehem that represented in a mych earlier time the progenitor of an extended N-S arabian Yahweh cult that began to become prominent under the Monarchs.
And within the legend we have a female 'Judge' Deborah, who sat under a palm tree (Mystic symbolism, the olive tree 🕎 represents wisdom of asherah) and we have prior to her Shamgar of Anath, the middle euphratean goddess of war. And so the discussion of Matriarchal precedence is kind of a moot point, because it is obvioys tgat the process is divine masculine normalization that takes place during the Iron Age. (The warrior is replaced by Asshur, Marduk, Ba'al Hadat, and Yahweh). If we make the argument that god is Yahweh or like gods, then I think the definition of god is useless. If we go back to the prototypes of the iron age gods, then I think the godhead is kind of a combination of masculin and feminine, like Ishtar, or pairs of gods like Anu and Ninhursag, El and Athirath, Absu and his wife. These divine essenses are pulled from the eneolithic concepts of a earthly mother/fertility figure that is popular in agrarian and a animistic masculine/power figure that was popular in pastoral societies.
The importance of the matriarch is this in modern belief, it is tiamat that is sliced open to give rise to earth and stars. The matriarch is what gives birth from the ki to societies, it is the divine masculine that creates aggregates (pastoral, trading, agricultural, warrior). Out of the womb the infant doesn't speak and it doesn't walk. It is through the process of parenting. Our two villages that become Uruk, the parent archeotype, from the resulting city there is trade, with trade there is a need for writing, with writing there is high (sky) culture. Once this archeotype is established it spreads to include others, and then produces colonies of its own (e.g. Mari). But we have to think of the prototypes to this system, the divine matriarch still exists. I mean they immediately recognize other similar goddesses as Ninhursag.
Again, what we call venus figurines, fetishes? When does the fetish end and goddes begin?
I dont know, its a challenge, but at some point people did start thinking about a divine feminine goddess.
WOW💥🎶Thank You for that comprehensive lesson.
I am already finding one issue with the first claim. There is no historcial line from pre-christian to modernday paganism.
I agree with this statement to majority of pagan/wiccan movements. I spent time with Romuva and have contact with pagan groups. I agree they are not from pre-christian times.
But in for exemple the north western parts of sweden, there are still pagans there. They don't have any special ritualistic systems in place, and they are baptisted. But if you ask them, they are more cultrually pagen. This has to do with the weak influence the swedish church had in the era. So while baptisted (you had to be baptised to be part of the swedish nation), they never converted.
The issue I am seeing alot when i do more fieldwork with paganism, is a definition issue. Paganism becomes a broad subject. So people start calling themself native faith and other things to find a way around this definition issue. But for certain smaller group it goes beyond chirstian time, but because it is a borad definition they get lumped together.
While Norse paganism did survive into the 19th century in Sweden and Norway it didn't survive past that century. When you say that these people are pagan despite being baptised do you mean that they actually self identify as pagan or merely that you percieve their practices as not sufficiently Christian?
@@hedgehog3180 They define themselves as pagans. I spoke to them, but i do think more reserch is needed.
They said they have been pagans since always, because the priests who came there didn't care, they only did a headcount. Back in the day, you are not allowed to be a Swedish citizen if you are not luthrean and part of the swedish church.
:LD
you should do asmr videos
An unexpectedly nervous performance.
I'm enjoying and learning so much. Thank you.
I recommend @Crecganford
Jon White, an academic does incredible podcasts on mythology. They're epic, truly.
I think you'll respect his process. I love his data driven work.
Plus, a cuppa tea, a warm voice tells these stories.
I hope you combine some work. It would be epic! ❤
This was an excellent talk! I've just recently discovered you and your work.
You are doing important work.
✌️🫶🦐