The xB has a firmer spring and shock tuning than the xA, which shares its spring rates and damping with the Echo (the same wheelbase between the xA as well). What the xA had as an advantage to the Echo was the Scion's have a firmer rear beam with an integrated swaybar built in-- it's a direct swap into an Echo. Scion's also benefitted having the slightly firmer front control arm bushings shared with the MR2 Spyder (same control arm as the Echo, I think just bushings change the part numbers/compatibility at dealerships). Scion handling again improves with 15" wheels to the Echoes having diminutive 14x5.5" wheels and 175/65 S-rated tires, while the xA runs a 15x5.5 185/60 and the xB a 15x6" 185/60. That added wheel width (helping reduce tire flex) might be the reason the xB turns in sharper (that and the firmer rates). I'm also not sure what the "sport package" entails on the xB they tested, as TRD parts like swaybars and shocks/springs were available (though those don't appear to be there, only the strut tower brace). In 2004 the xA and xB had the same 17:1 steering ratio, later the xA would go slower with it in the 18's (likely as a safety effort from the short 93.3" wheelbase), so that also can't be the reason. A strut tower brace is definitely an improvement felt in turn-in, but both xA and xB seemed to have it in the review. A manual xA should be more inline with the Yaris manual or Mazda2 manual in terms of performance (expect 8.7-8.9 seconds for 0-60), but the manual Echo is still quicker from its light weight (8.4-8.6). Scions used a C50 manual transmission with a shorter 4.30:1 final drive to the Echo's 3.53:1 C150... but again, one can swap it in for a quick sporty gear ratio, though freeway RPM's and fuel economy will be noticeably effected as your cruising RPM will be nearly 1,000rpm busier, but might put the Echo 0-60 even closer to the 8.0 second mark if done right. The physical shifter itself is also a tad bit thinner in a Scion, allowing for the "chrome" collar for the Scion shift boot and shift knob (Echo shaft is too thick)-- aesthetically a nice upgrade for an Echo, and going on ebay for a chrome-and-leather Toyota Aygo five-speed know adds heft and chunkiness for a less Tercel-like feel (that's a good thing). xA front seats are also a bolt-in upgrade for an Echo, though the back seat (which is easily 20lbs heavier) takes some fabrication if you dare make it match. One of the reasons the xB might be louder is the Echo and xA had a spring-loaded flap in the muffler to give them a variable backpressure effect, while the xB lacks that (I've cut them open personally to confirm). xB's had the most sound deadening, with carpet even being under the rear seat, while the xA and xB had deadening material in the center console (around the shifter) and even under the engine cover. The Echo didn't have any of that. Oddly enough, if you hold the larger Echo muffler and either smaller Scion mufflers side by side, the Echo is a few pounds lighter regardless of the width and length (and it's still a double-walled stainless unit). They did a good job keeping the Echo very light-- around 300lbs lighter than the xA... so imagine giving the Echo all those pieces I said, and you have yourself a budget Lotus-style Scion. The earliest Echoes had the smallest brakes, least bracing, and thinner front swaybars... but since braking and handling were weaker spots, there's a reason Echoes updated as soon as 2001. As Colin Chapman said, “Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.” Other markets had a hot "Echo" hatch with most of this already done, and the Echo sedan and coupe were even lighter... food for thought on how Toyota sandbagged their car.
Wow! I knew they were slow but without the 3-400lbs of (trucker) gear that I keep in my xB, it actually feels quicker to 60. Either way, at 297K, it makes me grin on every drive, especially when the road gets twisty. Also, when I unpack it, I can easily get 40mpg @65mph. This might be my favorite of the small cars I've ever owned.
@scionnn that gives me hope. Is yours a three-pedal? All original drivetrain? Mine is and just rolled 300K, and the gearbox really wants to leave the chat. It gave up 3rd synchro right after I got it in '21, so I pulled one from a wreck at LKQ late that year. Guess it's finally time to grab axles and ball joints since I have all the seals, flywheel, and clutch set.
@@A_Cowboy_called_JackRabbit my 2005 is manual. My 06 is auto, drivetrain replaced twice, first ine gave up 5 yrs ago. Original gaskets, engine, transmission, etc. Just replaced a few days ago the original vvt solenoid.
Manual makes all the difference. The Scion automatic is the exact same ratios for the Echo, Scion's, and even the Yaris all the way to the end of the 1NZ-FE range-- and the xB was the heaviest. The manuals, however, the xB had a 4.3:1 final drive, while the Echo was a 3.53:1. Same ratios (albeit a C150 not a C50), but the final drive changed the character immensely, shifting to third around 55mph rather than 63mph in an Echo... but what it also meant is an xB or xA is running 4,100rpm or so at 80mph instead of the Echo's 3,300rpm.
@hduncan2587 I appreciate the info! Your mention of the final drive difference just reminded me. A lot of guys talk about switching 5th to the Corolla ratio. On paper, relaxed revs at speed sound good, but with such a tiny engine pushing so much face to the wind... Imean, I can clutch in on any grade of downhill, and she will lose speed, which could be all because my gearbox is trash. Anyway, I have a suspicion that if I was to swap to that cog in the "new" box, I would just wind up shifting more at lower highway speeds. That 1NZ is just not designed to do much down low, you know? Also, I switched to a set of 16x7 Drag alloys that weigh around 13lbs each with 205/50 Falken rubber, also one of the lightest I could find. This might be most of the reason it feels so lively, even with all my junk in the back.
If the second generation Scion xB was given the 180hp 2.5 engine from the tC - Scion would still be around. And bump the tC up to 200hp. Too bad Toyota doesn't like speed. ( and don't give me that re-brand BMW Supra either as an excuse )
@scionnn "If the second generation xB WAS GIVEN the 2.5 Thank you I knew that already. So I say again, 2nd Gen xB 180hp instead of 158? Would still be around.
@@oreally8605 The tC is known to be a sporty coupe, while the xB is known for bring a good gas saver. Yes your right, they shouldve added a 180 hp engine, but the xB is a gas saver. Though they couldve saved it if they added a bigger engine option, but its a Scion, Scion only had one trim level, and a lot of options, known as accessories, like certified after market subs, speakers, etc.
both extremely reliable vehicles
The xB has a firmer spring and shock tuning than the xA, which shares its spring rates and damping with the Echo (the same wheelbase between the xA as well). What the xA had as an advantage to the Echo was the Scion's have a firmer rear beam with an integrated swaybar built in-- it's a direct swap into an Echo. Scion's also benefitted having the slightly firmer front control arm bushings shared with the MR2 Spyder (same control arm as the Echo, I think just bushings change the part numbers/compatibility at dealerships).
Scion handling again improves with 15" wheels to the Echoes having diminutive 14x5.5" wheels and 175/65 S-rated tires, while the xA runs a 15x5.5 185/60 and the xB a 15x6" 185/60. That added wheel width (helping reduce tire flex) might be the reason the xB turns in sharper (that and the firmer rates). I'm also not sure what the "sport package" entails on the xB they tested, as TRD parts like swaybars and shocks/springs were available (though those don't appear to be there, only the strut tower brace). In 2004 the xA and xB had the same 17:1 steering ratio, later the xA would go slower with it in the 18's (likely as a safety effort from the short 93.3" wheelbase), so that also can't be the reason. A strut tower brace is definitely an improvement felt in turn-in, but both xA and xB seemed to have it in the review.
A manual xA should be more inline with the Yaris manual or Mazda2 manual in terms of performance (expect 8.7-8.9 seconds for 0-60), but the manual Echo is still quicker from its light weight (8.4-8.6). Scions used a C50 manual transmission with a shorter 4.30:1 final drive to the Echo's 3.53:1 C150... but again, one can swap it in for a quick sporty gear ratio, though freeway RPM's and fuel economy will be noticeably effected as your cruising RPM will be nearly 1,000rpm busier, but might put the Echo 0-60 even closer to the 8.0 second mark if done right. The physical shifter itself is also a tad bit thinner in a Scion, allowing for the "chrome" collar for the Scion shift boot and shift knob (Echo shaft is too thick)-- aesthetically a nice upgrade for an Echo, and going on ebay for a chrome-and-leather Toyota Aygo five-speed know adds heft and chunkiness for a less Tercel-like feel (that's a good thing). xA front seats are also a bolt-in upgrade for an Echo, though the back seat (which is easily 20lbs heavier) takes some fabrication if you dare make it match.
One of the reasons the xB might be louder is the Echo and xA had a spring-loaded flap in the muffler to give them a variable backpressure effect, while the xB lacks that (I've cut them open personally to confirm). xB's had the most sound deadening, with carpet even being under the rear seat, while the xA and xB had deadening material in the center console (around the shifter) and even under the engine cover. The Echo didn't have any of that.
Oddly enough, if you hold the larger Echo muffler and either smaller Scion mufflers side by side, the Echo is a few pounds lighter regardless of the width and length (and it's still a double-walled stainless unit). They did a good job keeping the Echo very light-- around 300lbs lighter than the xA... so imagine giving the Echo all those pieces I said, and you have yourself a budget Lotus-style Scion. The earliest Echoes had the smallest brakes, least bracing, and thinner front swaybars... but since braking and handling were weaker spots, there's a reason Echoes updated as soon as 2001. As Colin Chapman said, “Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.” Other markets had a hot "Echo" hatch with most of this already done, and the Echo sedan and coupe were even lighter... food for thought on how Toyota sandbagged their car.
I have a 2004 Scion xB 297k miles but runs and drives like new
Very awesome car and engine. Small cars are gone from Toyota.
Nice
I just bought a 2004 xB manual. Hope to drive it for many many years
@williamperri3437 it doesn't have oil consumption issues. Only the 2008-2011 second Gen did. 😊
my 06 has 431k miles
Wow! I knew they were slow but without the 3-400lbs of (trucker) gear that I keep in my xB, it actually feels quicker to 60. Either way, at 297K, it makes me grin on every drive, especially when the road gets twisty. Also, when I unpack it, I can easily get 40mpg @65mph. This might be my favorite of the small cars I've ever owned.
my 06 has 431k miles
@scionnn that gives me hope. Is yours a three-pedal? All original drivetrain? Mine is and just rolled 300K, and the gearbox really wants to leave the chat. It gave up 3rd synchro right after I got it in '21, so I pulled one from a wreck at LKQ late that year. Guess it's finally time to grab axles and ball joints since I have all the seals, flywheel, and clutch set.
@@A_Cowboy_called_JackRabbit my 2005 is manual. My 06 is auto, drivetrain replaced twice, first ine gave up 5 yrs ago. Original gaskets, engine, transmission, etc. Just replaced a few days ago the original vvt solenoid.
Manual makes all the difference. The Scion automatic is the exact same ratios for the Echo, Scion's, and even the Yaris all the way to the end of the 1NZ-FE range-- and the xB was the heaviest. The manuals, however, the xB had a 4.3:1 final drive, while the Echo was a 3.53:1. Same ratios (albeit a C150 not a C50), but the final drive changed the character immensely, shifting to third around 55mph rather than 63mph in an Echo... but what it also meant is an xB or xA is running 4,100rpm or so at 80mph instead of the Echo's 3,300rpm.
@hduncan2587 I appreciate the info! Your mention of the final drive difference just reminded me. A lot of guys talk about switching 5th to the Corolla ratio. On paper, relaxed revs at speed sound good, but with such a tiny engine pushing so much face to the wind... Imean, I can clutch in on any grade of downhill, and she will lose speed, which could be all because my gearbox is trash. Anyway, I have a suspicion that if I was to swap to that cog in the "new" box, I would just wind up shifting more at lower highway speeds. That 1NZ is just not designed to do much down low, you know? Also, I switched to a set of 16x7 Drag alloys that weigh around 13lbs each with 205/50 Falken rubber, also one of the lightest I could find. This might be most of the reason it feels so lively, even with all my junk in the back.
Currently in Canada, the Xb is more than a Lexus Es or Camry
If the second generation Scion xB was given the 180hp 2.5 engine from the tC - Scion would still be around. And bump the tC up to 200hp. Too bad Toyota doesn't like speed. ( and don't give me that re-brand BMW Supra either as an excuse )
No, the 2nd gen xB has a 2.4L 2AZ-FE. and only the first generation Scion tC has the 2.4l. 2az-fe. the 2nd and 3rd gen Scion tC has a 2.5L.
@scionnn "If the second generation xB WAS GIVEN the 2.5 Thank you I knew that already. So I say again, 2nd Gen xB 180hp instead of 158? Would still be around.
@@oreally8605 The tC is known to be a sporty coupe, while the xB is known for bring a good gas saver. Yes your right, they shouldve added a 180 hp engine, but the xB is a gas saver. Though they couldve saved it if they added a bigger engine option, but its a Scion, Scion only had one trim level, and a lot of options, known as accessories, like certified after market subs, speakers, etc.