Old Iron King: "All the other kings said I was daft to build a castle in molten lava, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the lava. So, I built a second one. That sank into the lava. So I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the lava."
The Iron King ended up, indeed, being destroyed by his mistake of giving life to the Smelter Demon, and afterwards, his castle sank into the lava. Somehow, his Allone Knights got burned, much like Gwyn's Black Knights, the reason why they make that sound, being merely empty armors filled with the souls of their former users. Like all the old ones' souls, the Old King's soul found his way to a being that had a similar fate and nature as his, and merged with it, thus creating Balr... I mean, Icharous Earth.
The Iron Key has the description : "The Old Iron King's Castle sunk into a lake of fire, weighed down by the castle's iron, and the burden of the kings conceit. Over the ages, the iron was stripped from the castle by the opportunistic passers-by." So I'd presume the giant bull statue was the King's creation as a symbol of himself, and was what finally caused the castle to sink.
Could be, it was the King's "conceit" that doomed the castle to sink. Which could either be related to his creating the smelter demon, or a giant fucking iron bull in his image, lol.
there's no real lore in Dark Souls. It's all speculation and drawing their own conclusion with varying amounts of evidence. It's quite fun really seeing all of these theories.
Back in their day, the Old Iron Keep was known as "Venn" and the Lost Bastille was known as "Alken". Both were founded by the same great hero, but their relationship soured with time. Venn was quite the interesting place to be, in its prime.
Very good, vet good indeed I also think that the prince and princess are the Iron King and Mytha and the secrets of the lost lands (Venn and Alken) were the secrets of giving life to inanimate objects like toys (Bellkeepers) to armored monsters like Ironclads and the manekins Vendrick took those secrets to help him crete the Sentries and Stone guardians
Raul Vito I don't see how you deduced that the secrets of instilling the soul came from Alken and Venn. We can clearly see that the bellkeepers are indeed living and sentient beings, not just animated. Its more plausible that Vendrick obtained this secret from the giants. I don't think that it's pure coincidence that the Throne of Want is beneath Drangleic Castle and that you have to cross a bridge of giants to get to it. Other evidence to suggest that this secret actually came from the giants can be seen in the Dragon Shrine which is accessed from Aldia's Keep. We know from various item descriptions that Vendrick and Aldia both sought to discover the essence of the soul, although through different means, so we can assume that Aldia helped Vendrick in his fight against the giants to claim that "valuable prize." Vendrick then used this secret to instill souls into the golemns and built Drangleic Castle, where they can still be seen. Furthermore, it's interesting that once you kill the Ancient Dragon, it drops a giant's soul, not a dragon's soul. Therefore, this secret must have come from the giants, since a giant's soul was used to create the Ancient Dragon. It's also interesting that giants drop seeds and grow into trees once they die...could this imply that giant's are just natural and inanimate matter that house souls, and that once they die and lose their soul(s) they return to nothing but natural matter once again?
ramennoodelz well for once the Bellkeepers are sentient in a rudimentary manner and they one in Belfry Luna says how the princess created them and he is siting right next to a pile of discarded Bellkeper bodies. As for the nature of the souls check out some of my comments on Dave´s other videos on why the Dragon has a giant soul and Vendrick´s body is so big too
ramennoodelz That was quite a long explanation for something that is clearly stated by Wellager :/ "The king crossed the oceans... and defeated the giants, with the queen at his side. The king commandeered their power... and created the golems."
The chances are very likely that the allusion refers to the giant bull statue, which ultimately weighed down the castle into the lava. That said, I find it hilarious that I have explored nearly every nook and cranny of the game and never once did I actually see the statue, despite going through that zone numerous times. Funny how little we see when we don't look up.
Hey Dave, I think perhaps the The Iron Kings kingdom sinking under it's own weight is both literal and metaphorical. Sure his actual castle sank into the lava but as did his great kingdom that hunted the undead. His forces had enough power to capture these undead and torment them, the same forces that the curse turned against him. I think it's a safe bet that he despised the undead curse. Perhaps the "other" person the king had feeling for fell victim to the curse, I mainly say that because of the lack of information about her. But it would explain why he would feel that way. Back on the subject of his kingdom I believe when most of his forces became hallow he made the smelter demon in order to fight back against them. Casting out his own people. If you look at the big bull statue it kind of looks like one of those medieval torture devices (the brazen bull). The torture device burned it's victims alive and made their screams mimic that of a bull. This would explain all the fire traps inside and the wholes on the top of the statue. Maybe he started killing his own people in an attempt to fight back against the curse before destroying his own kingdom with the same thing that formed it, his power. Thoughts?
I think that makes a great deal of sense. You're right - the giant bull does resemble a medieval torture device, and I like the idea of him bringing about his own demise. Great theory!
DaveControlLive can we expect new lore video?There isn't much lore videos about dark souls 2 as i can see in general,like for first game,i would like to hear more lore about nashandra or giants,ancient dragon,dragon aerie(why are there so much dragons in one place,in first game we didn't see much of them),vendrick,vesdalt...anyway i really like your channel.
The bonfire-location inside the giant bull's head is called "Eygil's Idol" so I guess the giant statue was an idol of the chiefly worshiped god (or hero) Eygil, who was depicted as a bull/minotaur. I'd say he was a god of strength, vigour and power.
The bull statues actually kind of remind me of the Iron Bull, a torture device back in the day, where a man would be place inside and burnt alive. This almost seems to fit with the Old Iron King's personality.
I think that the Old Iron King was the one who built most of the previous kingdom, and when Vendrick founded Drangleic he just build over it. The lost Bastle was a keep before it was a prison. Is it possible that the Old Iron King built it before the curse came and then converted it to a prison during the undead hunts?
DaveControlLive straid does say the land was known by another name when he wasn't petrified so i think we can safely say that the Bastille was originally built by the iron king.
DaveControlLive Well in NG+ you get the old wich soul the lod king soul, Nito's soul, Sealh's soul ( I cant remember the last 2 name). And I think there is a big reason for it. If you think abouth it the 4 grait one has similar characteristic as the 4 lord in DS1.
Asura R-R you read my mind. What a cool boss, why can't the others in DS2 be like him (for the record I like DS2 better, but some of the bosses are kinda lame).
+TrueDemonPictures Thats actualy a fuck up on the games geography, as ive seen in the 3d map version, iron keep is aparently right above earthen peak. A lot of the geographical locations dont make sense in dark souls 2.
+Juho Pirttilahti If you look at the footage in this video of the earthen peak windmill from the outside at 3:09, you will see that it's a free standing structure and not built into the side of a mountain. Maybe the developers intended it to be the way you described, but in the end, they did make a bit of a mistake.
+psuchay1 the top half is free standing. if you go by where the ladder dude is you can clearly see it built into a mountainside. also the mythia fight and hallway after it go straight into the mountain.
perfect.the only thing that i thinks different is:the old iron king has a son,and i think mytha loved iron's king son and not the iron king himself.long time have passed and mytha turn herself in that monster,and with the same speel,the prince became corvetus demon.
I am wondering if the bull is drawing inspiration from the brazen bull, which is a torturing device that boil its victims inside a hollowed out metal bull.
DaveControlLive Actually you just reminded me, bull identifies with Zeus in Greek Myth, and for that matter, it is a divine symbol in Hindu, Druid culture and Mesopotamian Myth as well. Bull is sacred in many culture, a reference to Gwyn. Interestingly, golden bull, in biblical reference, is the false god. This actually identifies with what I think DS2 wish to express about Gwyn. Gwyn is not a "good" being as the legend said in DS1. Lastly, an interesting note about the brazen bull, the creator was put inside the brazen bull by the king, who was disgusted by the design of such torture tool. The burning bull led to the demise of it creator due to his cruelty. This is exactly what happened to the Iron King. Hey Dave, I actually have a lot of thoughts on the four old ones and their role in relation with DS1. Can I send that over, it is pretty long >.>
I was just going to mention this due to the setup inside the bull with the spikes, flames and guillotine. It kinda fits the nature of the old king with his history of torturing the undead.
***** lmao I hear you. After my first attempt at her with the poison up I thought there must be some sort of fucking trick and googled it. Props to you for beating her like that.
Alternative explanation for the giant bull statue: it could be that it was once imbued with life, but instead of dragging the castle into the lava, it could have been what was keeping it up. Maybe the Old Iron King made it to stop or at least slow the castle once it began to sink, but when the Iron King was dead the magic wore off and the castle started sinking again. Just a theory, though... personally I think it's just a decorative statue, acting both as a symbol of power and a manifestation of the king's greed and conceit.
the gaint hallowed out bull might be a reference to a way of torture long ago i don't remember all the details but i remember learing about gaint hollowed bull and cows they would put ppl inside set a fire underneath and it had something to do with a sound that was made when people squeling in pain grasping for air the only reason i bring this up is because it goes with the theme of torture the iron king set in huntsmens
Maybe the Iron King did this all on purpose. Maybe he would round up undead, carol them into the bull where he would sit at the top, switching on and off the fire and listening to the screams. Even further, maybe it was the souls of these undead that formed the smelter demon? Just look at the definition of smelter; factory or person that makes metal from ore. Maybe this indicates that souls are the ore for the souls of the golems (smelter demon)? i dunno. even i admit that what i just said has a lot of "maybe"s.
Huzzah for Threshold Bridge! PvP anyone? The Old Iron King just immediately made me think of the Balrog design from Peter Jackson's LOTR films. I'm gonna have to cosplay as Gandalf next time I fight him, just be like "You shall not pass!"
They do, this may be what a dying soul sounds like considering that at the time of dark souls 1 all the knights are just hollow armors filled with the soul of its wearer.
Gideon Winter but you also find the black knight halberd in Iron Keep. They most likely are not the same per se, but maybe a similar concept. The black knights were burned by the first flame, and the Alonne knights were bathing in lava for who knows how long.
Solaire Kenway Actually the halberd's in shaded woods but the great sword is there, and i have a theory which has SPOILERS, remember the ending dialogue by the emerald herald? how she said all the souls you've collected would flourish again? and ng+ old one drops? they could very well be the reincarnation of the black knights soul's.
AgentAlaska49 that's a good theory, but I think its more of the fact that the black knights' armor was keeping the soul inside of it, so I think by killing it, that hollow soul is being released, and that's the sound it makes. Last time I checked, humans don't roar like that. So maybe the lava burned up the bodies inside the alone knights' armor as well, leaving the soul inside. Their souls COULD be preserved, but I think the great ones only stay because they are so powerful.
Interesting point you brought up towards the end of the video about the Sinner`s Rise. I am in the process of going through there on NG+ and I will certainly keep an eye out for those doors. Nice video!
I dont think Mytha had feelings for the iron king but rather the prince who built belfry sol. You read yourself that the prince had feelings for another woman, which is the princess who built belfry luna
Ah, that's a great point. I suppose since the text calls him a "king", I figured the item description was correct, and Gilligan's story was slightly off. EDIT: I actually think you could be correct - and added an annotation and addendum in the description.
In addition to this, it also explains the Sinner's Rise/Iron Keep connection. While I'm not sure if the Iron King built Sinner's Rise, the bell towers would suggest that the Prince of Alken and the Princess of Venn (along with Queen Myrah, as well) all existed at the same time, thus those two "kingdoms" had some form of communication. It's strange, though, that we know the names of these characters, yet the Sinner and the Old Iron King are so ancient that their names have been forgotten. Is it possible that the Prince of Alken once laid claim to the Iron Keep as his kingdom, even after it's fall?
HariiMakenji I was speculating that the Prince of Alken might be the iron king before he became the iron king. And the Princess of Venn could be the lost sinner, considering the location of the 2 bells. The bells could be quite old, even before the iron keep and bastille were built.
Xun Zhu I really like this theory. To further expand upon it, could it be possible that the Princess of Venn a skilled Pyromancer, attempted to recreate the first flame for the Prince of Alken, creating the smelter demon, which killed the Prince. This would draw a parallel with the Witch of Izalith, and could also explain why she punishes her self in Sinners Rise, her actions killed the one she loved.
That's a really interesting speculation! Part of the reason I was thinking Mytha was in love with "The Iron King" was because he was likely a Prince before a King (unless he came to power with war). But, that's a really cool theory, I mentioned it in my latest "Let's Play" which I'm working on editing right now - I'll give you credit in the description.
Great video, you left me with more questions than answers, but there is one thing that needs to be said because this is one of my favorites,so, as the description of the edged ring reads "Alken and Venn was founded by the same man, but disappeared because of rivalries and rancor", so the lost bastille was Alken and the iron keep was Venn (the prince of Venn that felt in love with the princess of Alken, even when he was married to Mytha), both founded by the iron king, so he was the king maybe before Vendrick, as some say that many kingdoms raised and falled in Drangleic, and i believe, that there is a relation between this new bed of chaos, and the sinner trying to "relight the flames", but cant confirm it, if not, maybe the iron king "linked the fire" just like Gwyn and burned his kingdom with his knights. I believe From based this lore in greek myth, because of Icarus, the one who burned his wing and created an island, also the minotaur fits in that mythology, because the father of Icarus, built the labyrinth of the minotaur, i just dont know what the minotaur could represent in this case, i hope you find something about it, cheers!
Clearly it's a reverse elevator where you think it's going up, but it's actually going down underneath the ground. - In all honesty, though, this drives me crazy as well. Seriously - how is it that the Iron Keep - which is one of the HIGHEST point in the game SUNK into a bed of lava?
DaveControlLive If Dranleic were built inside a titanic tree, where areas completely distinct from each other in elevation were in their own little tree hollow with it's own sky and horizon, this would explain it all. There could even be tree hollows on the same elevation which could explain areas with different skies and horizons being on roughly the same level, such as Dranleic Castle and Aldia's Keep. It certainly would help explain some areas like the gigantic round hole in the ground like on the way to the Huntsman's Copse, and the fact that you enter Drangleic in the first place by jumping INTO it.
DaveControlLive I think that the Old Iron Keep is supposed to have been built in a Caldera, which would explain it sinking and yet simultaneously being one of the highest points in the land. If you look around at the scenery near the Old Iron King boss platform, there seems to be a ring of mountains surrounding you, indicating a crater or caldera.
DaveControlLive In the cinematics that were showed during the original trailers with the Manikins (fuck the copyright), the cinders, fire and lava were all visible and noticeable assuming this was the Harvest Valley.
DaveControlLive Perhaps the Iron Castle was built atop a mountain. It would certainly fit the Iron Kings' persona to build his castle on the highest point he can find. The mountain may have actually been a dormant volcano, hence the lava. Mountains are rich in ores and considering the area next to the Iron Keep is a valley (which is a flat depression of land usually surrounded by elevated land) To me it makes sense that the Iron keep is higher then a place called "Earthen Valley". Most everything should be higher then the Valley.
I think the Iron King just had so much Iron that he didn't know what to do with it, so he created a giant monument of a bull, a creature he clearly identified himself with...maybe he never changed form and always looked like that, which would explain similarities (the horns)
i think the bull statue was created to serve the iron king and possibly to fight the smelter demon but he also had a will of his own and drag the castle to the lava
Some theorists think that the Smelter Demon was created by Eygil, the Old Iron King's best pyromancer. The minotaurs/bulls are also believed to represent Eygil rather than the OIK, this is mainly because of the bonfire found in the top of the minotaur statue just before the OIK boss fight called Eygil's Idol
DaveControlLive Any thoughts on how he became a demon? Gwyn's soul transforming him is all but official, but i can't figure out how did he get killed by Smelter, fell into lava and suddendly BOP giant arch-demon.
7:07 that is why i call the smelter demon a cheater...... that nonsense really got me rage, because i try at least 50 times to beat this demon...... almost half of the reason i fail is this......
If bulls symbolize the iron king then the large bull statue could be holding up the castle and when the iron king died it was allowed to fall into the lava .
i still cant understand the hate of ds2,the story is really good sometimes it is more interesting than ds1's cuz it has bigger mysteries,ds1 was really rushed in the end(i dont say that ds2 is better than ds1,but y did this game get so much hate?)
Brilliant Vid! After a bunch of Lore videos and investigating myself, this is my theory of what happened: 1. The Iron King used the Soul of Light (Gwyn's) to create his kingdom and from its influence he grew to hate the undead. 2. His son Prince Alken was bequeathed to Mytha, the Queen of the neighbouring land, despite loving Venn, the Princess of the Lost Bastille. He and Venn continued to see one another in secret at the Belfry's, guarded by the little bell keepers Venn had created with her Great Soul, the Soul of Life (Izalith's). 3. They were found out. Mytha was crushed to find she wasn't good enough for the man she loved and retreated back into the Earthen Peak, while the Iron King was more interested in the Soul of Life that Venn had. He forced Venn into using the Soul of Life for his own (much more malignant) purposes. 4. As we know from the previous game, Demons are twisted life forms created by the Soul of Life. I believe the Soul of Life was used by order of the Iron King to create a power source for his most ambitious war-machine yet: a titanic metal golem that he could control from the inside (hence the lever to turn it on located in it's head). This bull-headed Golem would be his unstoppable avatar and a monument to his power (and ego). 5. Naturally, the giant golem imeddiately goes berserk, using its titanic form to pull the Iron Keep and its inhabitants into the lava and incinerating Prince Alken and the Iron King. The burning Core then tore itself loose from its restraints, and the raging form of the Smelter Demon was born from the molten slag, stalking the castle and killing whoever was left. 6. Princess Venn, stricken by the horror of watching her lover die to her own creation, locked herself away at the bottom of Sinners rise. There she remained, unable to forgive herself for the horrors she caused and ready to kill anyone who tried to use her Soul of Life for evil again. By the time the player character finds her she has become the Lost Sinner. 7. The Iron King's body, deep within the lake of lava, became the host for Gwyn's Soul and the vessel for Ichorous Earth (the demonic form you find him in). The main reason I think Izalith's Soul was involved is because the whole tale has a very "Bed of Chaos" style ring to it, and the only beings in the Dark Souls universe that are called Demons were all directly born from it. It makes sense to me that the Smelter Demon is the continuation of that cycle of "life gone wrong". Feel free to pick holes in my theory, there's enough vagaries that it's certainly not set in stone :)
At the beginning of Iron Keep, as you go over the first bridge, at the end is two giant pillars on each side, with statues on them of soldiers. I wonder who they are. I also wish to get some more backstory on the Chaos Storm pyromancy spell. What about the Iron Clads? What are they doing in the optional area of Forest of Fallen Giants?
The "old" iron clads (as they are called) in the forest of the fallen giants were commanded by king vendrick. Chancellor Wellager says that vendrick conquered the four old ones so it isnt odd that he is commanding their forces. Another indication for this is that there are alonne knight captains in drangleic castle. So when the giants attacked the keep which is now the forest of the fallen giants the old iron clads were stationed there by king vendrick
bull could just be refrence of king minos which the king of crete who was tyrant and had Minotaur monster. the crete symbol was a bull which pride made gods angry at him. so it easly possible that bull statue was alive to destroy the castle since he has some connection to Gywn
Dave, those doors you mentioned at the end are also in Heide. The archway after the knight that drops the sublime bone dust has one and the other is missing. There's also a bit before the No Man's Wharf bonfire where the doors are smashed in and you can't open them. The same design is in multiple areas, which I find really interesting.
Perhaps it was simply to indicate an older design? Though, the Iron King built is castle... so that would imply the doors as well. Or... we're all just reading too much into it (including myself), haha.
DaveControlLive Perhaps the doors are looking into it too much, but I've been spotting that a lot of areas have some major links. Not only are there Alonne Knights in Drangleic Castle (as you already know) but there's two statues of the old knights in Heide at the entrance to the room where you meet the queen as well. And going back to the doors - if they do mean anything, the same design is also in the castle.
The girant bull looks like it is keeping the rest of the castle from sinking down like it is pulling it up by the way the arm is positioned and how he his grasping it.
You know i wonder if the jester you summon to help kill Mytha has anything that helps with the lore or confuse things really like him being a pyromancer might have some connections.
I think it could either be the King's name, or the name of a God he worshipped. (As, typically that's what an idol is for). But, either way, that's a great point.
Hey Dave, I noticed that in the description of the Baneful Queen's soul it says something about a poison found "Deep within the earth". Could it be that she's a survivor of the destruction of the Sunken Crown's city or took some of the poison from Sinh the dragon?
Yeah - that was me. (And TerraMantis). And, thanks! I think he's one of the most interesting characters in the game, so would definitely be fun to cover!
I believe that when the king was killed by the smelter demon he began to hallow, and the fear of becoming what he hunted for sport was to great. He sought the help of the lost sinner, who we know at one point tried to reignite the first flame, to stave off the curse. But this caused the iron keep to spout lava much like lost izalith did when it happend there. The king was transformed into a demon from this event, he does look like he belongs in the demon ruins after all.
Interesting note; the Iron King was at some point in cahoots with King Vendrick. This can be inferred by the Old Ironclad set (as opposed to just the Ironclad Set) and the presence of Alonne Knights in Drangleic Castle.
It could be possible that the Iron King had the Sinner's Rise made in order to house the Lost Sinner; who is the last remaining Witch of Izalith. He allowed the cruel torture take place there as well, but decided to mix things up by giving her a sword to fight back with as the mask she wore unleashed agony on her throughout. This would explain why she totally flips out and tries to murder you; she thought you were the next set of torturers. Huzzah for speculation!
Well since the bull is called "Eyjil's Idol" or something, it's pretty much clear that it was never alive, just a statue (which is what "idol" means, usually refers to a mythological or powerful being). Eyjil would have been a god born from Gwyn's soul (I know it seems weird, but if the original soul was the greatest god ever, the new, less powerful remains of it could become a smaller deity or something), Eyjil cherished the King just like Gwyn cherished his kingdom (since it's only a part of the original souls it has to take over something smaller); he protected him and guided him to a place rich with iron where the King got wealth, power, and a kingdom. The king built the castle and placed multiple statues of Eyjil in his honor, to thank him for the protection. However, they would become closer to each other every day and thus parts of Eyjil's soul started to mix with the King's; Eyjil had a mad fascination with fire (inherited from Gwyn) and through the king he started to dig deeper and deeper in search of a constant, powerful source of fire (that he would direct to his idols and make the castle even more "glorious"). At this point the king was merely a husk, and when the smelter demon (his own personal guard who acquired conscience and he got closer to the fire beneath the earth) killed him by tossing him into the flames as he contemplated Eyjil's Idol, Eyjil was set free and sprouted from the flame as Ichorous Earth. Far fetched i know, but pretty cool right?
the Bull contruction. to me the bull looked to be the only statue holding the keep up, if what you say is true and the king died from the smelter. then its more poetic to believe that his many knights that served him, built the Bull monument in his honor, its Iron grasp holding the keep, the last most proud possession of the king, from sinking to the depths.
I did find it odd that the Iron King didn't take a form closer to the bulls he idolized, it more resembles a dragon than a bull, perhaps if it didn't have wings.
I posted a video on it, and was surprised how many people it had happened to. I guess it makes the joke that much better, though, haha. And, thanks! :)
Have u looked at the smelter demon armor set "The old Iron King was possessed of a great bounty of ore, but was incinerated by a creature that rose from the infernal depths of the earth." This makes me believe that the smelter demon or the "Iron king" that we fight could of came and flooded the Iron keep or that gwyn had taken over him and created the iron king that we fight
I've seen the same door somewhere else, I think it was the Crypt. Judging by the name 'Smelter' Demon, it was probably created by the Iron King to smelt down all the iron ore he found in Harvest Valley (apparenlty full of minerals). The Demon had a will of it's own and killed the king.
What do you think about Lord Gwyns Soul, a honorable king, being resurrected?? or consumed?? by the Iron King, who was clearly a mad man? When i got the Old Kings Soul for the first time I was confused why Ichorous has it. I expected maybe Seaths soul (granted Freja makes more sense) or even fragments of the 4 Kings Soul. sry for my english^^
Well after the undead were born Gwyn supported the undead hunts by the Way of White and even threw himself into the fire to reverse the case, as he feared the undead. I imagined that's why the cat calls him a liar. He chose his kingdom over his people.
One thing you forgot to mention: The bull statues represent the real-life torture/execution device called 'the brazen bull', which is probably the most twisted thing ever. It kind of links with the whole undead-hunting theme.
Two theories: 1. Old Iron King = Chosen Undead (Dark Lord Ending) 2. At 5:12, the cat is actually talking about the Chosen Undead (Link the Fire Ending).
Maybe the iron bull thingy was trying to pull the castle up (if it was alive) from the lava but because of the weight of the castle it didn't succeed but it never stopped from trying and hollowed out in its actions. That's my guess.
The statue on the side is actually an idol created by eygil, a pyromancer who worked for the old iron king. He was also the one who created the smelter demon. You get to know more about him in the dlc
Very interesting video. In my humble opinion, the Old King's soul obtained in NG+ is not the soul of Gwyn, but the soul that was shared among the Four Kings of New Londo. This way, every Old One of DS2 carries a lord soul of DS1 (RottenNito, FrejaSeath, SinnerWitch of Izalith, and Iron KingFour Kings). I think it makes more sense, because we have to get all of them to rekindle the fire, and the souls seem to be the fuel for the fire. Well, in DS1, the Dark Soul (humanity) seemed to be the fuel, and in DS2 we don't know where the Dark Souls is (no humanities anymore), but the soul of a powerful undead seems to do the trick.
One thing I had a thought about Is if dranglec is lorando bright stone cove. Might be the crystal caverns because. Well when dark souls two came out and I made it to bright stone I just feel that it was the crystal caves but extremely mined out.
Anyone else wonder why the key to open the cages before the Lost Sinner fight can be found in Belfry Luna, especially if there is so much speculation that the tower itself was built by the Iron King? I think it's possible the Lost Sinner is both The Prince, and the Princess. The bug in the lost Sinners mask, is identical to the one in the bed of chaos, ~which is the transformed witch of izalyth~. So why would there be a bug and a body? This also provides an answer for why the Lost Sinners body looks primarily male.
hey guys! i just wanted to meantion that the doors at sinners rise and old iron keep can be also found at the secret path from heides tower of flame to no mans wharf. If you follow the path to the bonfire you go up the stairs in the waterfilled room and at the end you can find the broken door.
Dave, the sunken king had elana the squalid queen right. but what about the old iron king that "had feelings for another?" could she be another fragment of manus' soul?
Hey dave, just putting it out theres but gwyn wasnt lord of sun, but rather light in general. His son (who people still arent entirely sure is solaire) is the lord of sun but he was exiled or something i cant remember the specifics of that part
it's probably not related, but the fire and hollow metal bulls put me in the mind of an old roman torture device. it was a hollow metal bull that a person is locked inside, then a fire is lit underneath the bull. i have no idea why one of those would be holding onto the castle spire though. perhaps thats why there is a bonfire inside the giant bull, undead were forced into the bull en masse, died a very painful death due to the heat from the lava, then reformed at the bonfire only to experience it all again endlessly.
I think the Iron Bull was symbolic, it represents the Iron king and His pride and tries to lift itself up above the castle itself and above anything and anyone else out of arrogance. But by doing that, it inevitable dragged the iron castle and the kings kingdom down with it. I don`t think it was alive at any point though.
Old Iron King: "All the other kings said I was daft to build a castle in molten lava, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the lava. So, I built a second one. That sank into the lava. So I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the lava."
hahahaha, I was just thinking about that
yup! the stupidest boss on darksoul history....lore wise i mean
You need more likes!
Seems like peoole haven't seen The quest for the Holy Grail by Monty Python.
+erybotond it's a great movie
I recognize that because Vulcan makes a joke similar to that in Smite.
Dark Souls 2 lore is way creepier than Dark Souls 1's
Honestly New Londo and the Pisaca's lore is way creepier than anything in Dark Souls 2.
And DS2 is rated T, while DS1 is rated M.
New Londo has way more creepy lore than the whole DS2 lore.
Aldias keep alone is worse then the first game as far as what they were up to
The Iron King ended up, indeed, being destroyed by his mistake of giving life to the Smelter Demon, and afterwards, his castle sank into the lava. Somehow, his Allone Knights got burned, much like Gwyn's Black Knights, the reason why they make that sound, being merely empty armors filled with the souls of their former users. Like all the old ones' souls, the Old King's soul found his way to a being that had a similar fate and nature as his, and merged with it, thus creating Balr... I mean, Icharous Earth.
The Iron Key has the description :
"The Old Iron King's Castle sunk into a lake of fire, weighed down by the castle's iron, and the burden of the kings conceit.
Over the ages, the iron was stripped from the castle by the opportunistic passers-by."
So I'd presume the giant bull statue was the King's creation as a symbol of himself, and was what finally caused the castle to sink.
Could be, it was the King's "conceit" that doomed the castle to sink. Which could either be related to his creating the smelter demon, or a giant fucking iron bull in his image, lol.
I think it was a creation of himself as well, considering the bonfire is called Eygil's Idol. This was probably the kings name.
Almost a decade late, but no. Eygil was the Iron King's most trustworthy piromancer, not the king himself.
No one gonna mention that Old iron King looks alot like Balrog from Lord Of The Rings?
Yeah I recognise him straight away
Watch happy souls straight reference
Balrog has a mean right hook. Vega and Bison are pushovers.
Don't forget The Old Iron King kinda almost reminds me of the Daemon Prince or Bloodthirster of Khorne in Warhammer Fantasy!
Sorry for late Comments!
Someone needs to gather up all the dark souls lore and create an illustrated lore book.
there's no real lore in Dark Souls. It's all speculation and drawing their own conclusion with varying amounts of evidence. It's quite fun really seeing all of these theories.
Back in their day, the Old Iron Keep was known as "Venn" and the Lost Bastille was known as "Alken". Both were founded by the same great hero, but their relationship soured with time.
Venn was quite the interesting place to be, in its prime.
Very good, vet good indeed
I also think that the prince and princess are the Iron King and Mytha and the secrets of the lost lands (Venn and Alken) were the secrets of giving life to inanimate objects like toys (Bellkeepers) to armored monsters like Ironclads and the manekins
Vendrick took those secrets to help him crete the Sentries and Stone guardians
I quite agree with your deductions! Bravo!
Raul Vito I don't see how you deduced that the secrets of instilling the soul came from Alken and Venn. We can clearly see that the bellkeepers are indeed living and sentient beings, not just animated. Its more plausible that Vendrick obtained this secret from the giants. I don't think that it's pure coincidence that the Throne of Want is beneath Drangleic Castle and that you have to cross a bridge of giants to get to it. Other evidence to suggest that this secret actually came from the giants can be seen in the Dragon Shrine which is accessed from Aldia's Keep. We know from various item descriptions that Vendrick and Aldia both sought to discover the essence of the soul, although through different means, so we can assume that Aldia helped Vendrick in his fight against the giants to claim that "valuable prize." Vendrick then used this secret to instill souls into the golemns and built Drangleic Castle, where they can still be seen. Furthermore, it's interesting that once you kill the Ancient Dragon, it drops a giant's soul, not a dragon's soul. Therefore, this secret must have come from the giants, since a giant's soul was used to create the Ancient Dragon. It's also interesting that giants drop seeds and grow into trees once they die...could this imply that giant's are just natural and inanimate matter that house souls, and that once they die and lose their soul(s) they return to nothing but natural matter once again?
ramennoodelz well for once the Bellkeepers are sentient in a rudimentary manner and they one in Belfry Luna says how the princess created them and he is siting right next to a pile of discarded Bellkeper bodies. As for the nature of the souls check out some of my comments on Dave´s other videos on why the Dragon has a giant soul and Vendrick´s body is so big too
ramennoodelz That was quite a long explanation for something that is clearly stated by Wellager :/
"The king crossed the oceans... and defeated the giants, with the queen at his side. The king commandeered their power... and created the golems."
The chances are very likely that the allusion refers to the giant bull statue, which ultimately weighed down the castle into the lava.
That said, I find it hilarious that I have explored nearly every nook and cranny of the game and never once did I actually see the statue, despite going through that zone numerous times. Funny how little we see when we don't look up.
Hey Dave, I think perhaps the The Iron Kings kingdom sinking under it's own weight is both literal and metaphorical. Sure his actual castle sank into the lava but as did his great kingdom that hunted the undead. His forces had enough power to capture these undead and torment them, the same forces that the curse turned against him. I think it's a safe bet that he despised the undead curse. Perhaps the "other" person the king had feeling for fell victim to the curse, I mainly say that because of the lack of information about her. But it would explain why he would feel that way. Back on the subject of his kingdom I believe when most of his forces became hallow he made the smelter demon in order to fight back against them. Casting out his own people. If you look at the big bull statue it kind of looks like one of those medieval torture devices (the brazen bull). The torture device burned it's victims alive and made their screams mimic that of a bull. This would explain all the fire traps inside and the wholes on the top of the statue. Maybe he started killing his own people in an attempt to fight back against the curse before destroying his own kingdom with the same thing that formed it, his power. Thoughts?
I think that makes a great deal of sense. You're right - the giant bull does resemble a medieval torture device, and I like the idea of him bringing about his own demise.
Great theory!
DaveControlLive can we expect new lore video?There isn't much lore videos about dark souls 2 as i can see in general,like for first game,i would like to hear more lore about nashandra or giants,ancient dragon,dragon aerie(why are there so much dragons in one place,in first game we didn't see much of them),vendrick,vesdalt...anyway i really like your channel.
Wow, great theory.
I like your theory better than mine lol
DaveControlLive its means the stumborn of the iron king
The bonfire-location inside the giant bull's head is called "Eygil's Idol" so I guess the giant statue was an idol of the chiefly worshiped god (or hero) Eygil, who was depicted as a bull/minotaur. I'd say he was a god of strength, vigour and power.
The bull statues actually kind of remind me of the Iron Bull, a torture device back in the day, where a man would be place inside and burnt alive. This almost seems to fit with the Old Iron King's personality.
I think that the Old Iron King was the one who built most of the previous kingdom, and when Vendrick founded Drangleic he just build over it. The lost Bastle was a keep before it was a prison. Is it possible that the Old Iron King built it before the curse came and then converted it to a prison during the undead hunts?
I think that's very possible.
I think King Vendrick utilized the Bastille, but it could very well be that the Iron King built it.
DaveControlLive
straid does say the land was known by another name when he wasn't petrified so i think we can safely say that the Bastille was originally built by the iron king.
DaveControlLive
Well in NG+ you get the old wich soul the lod king soul, Nito's soul, Sealh's soul ( I cant remember the last 2 name). And I think there is a big reason for it. If you think abouth it the 4 grait one has similar characteristic as the 4 lord in DS1.
DaveControlLive I do remember somewhere it saying that alken and venn were constructed by the same person but then they started fueding.
That is a good question man this story just keeps making more and more questions un answered XD
Your the only one who gives good lore with alot of detail fast i love it bro great vid.
Thank you so much! - Glad you enjoy. :)
Artorias, try EpicNameBro. He has great lore vids and walkthroughs for all the souls games.
VaatiVidya's great too, but held off on Dark Souls 2 lore until the PC came out and is also working on other things.
Who are you?
Sir. Knight Artorias The Abysswalker Artorias who might you be?
Smelter Demon was a bitch to fight
True that.
Asura R-R Yea, the old iron king was cool, but kind of a pushover. The smelter demon on the other hand is cool and hard.
Asura R-R you read my mind. What a cool boss, why can't the others in DS2 be like him (for the record I like DS2 better, but some of the bosses are kinda lame).
SomeOrdinaryViewer Yea I couldn't do it till I got the shield that blocks 100 percent fire lol!
+SomeOrdinaryViewer I just got a gyrm shield and face rolled it. I had a harder time on old iron king.....
Why is the Iron Keep above the Earthern Peak? It is a tower!
+TrueDemonPictures Thats actualy a fuck up on the games geography, as ive seen in the 3d map version, iron keep is aparently right above earthen peak.
A lot of the geographical locations dont make sense in dark souls 2.
+marko simunic the elevator and the mytha boss is inside of a mountain and the iron keep is on top of it
and the mountain is an massive vulcano
+Juho Pirttilahti If you look at the footage in this video of the earthen peak windmill from the outside at 3:09, you will see that it's a free standing structure and not built into the side of a mountain. Maybe the developers intended it to be the way you described, but in the end, they did make a bit of a mistake.
+psuchay1 the top half is free standing. if you go by where the ladder dude is you can clearly see it built into a mountainside. also the mythia fight and hallway after it go straight into the mountain.
As the earthen peak climbs up a volcano
The giant bull is pulling the keep out...
haha I was thinking the same, maybe.. it would be interesting as hell
Ruben Cantillo Funny, it seems half people think the bulls pulling it out and the other half think its pushing it down.
perfect.the only thing that i thinks different is:the old iron king has a son,and i think mytha loved iron's king son and not the iron king himself.long time have passed and mytha turn herself in that monster,and with the same speel,the prince became corvetus demon.
I am wondering if the bull is drawing inspiration from the brazen bull, which is a torturing device that boil its victims inside a hollowed out metal bull.
It could be! I feel like there's a lot of Greek Mythological references, so it's possible they would have delved into history as well.
DaveControlLive Actually you just reminded me, bull identifies with Zeus in Greek Myth, and for that matter, it is a divine symbol in Hindu, Druid culture and Mesopotamian Myth as well. Bull is sacred in many culture, a reference to Gwyn. Interestingly, golden bull, in biblical reference, is the false god.
This actually identifies with what I think DS2 wish to express about Gwyn. Gwyn is not a "good" being as the legend said in DS1.
Lastly, an interesting note about the brazen bull, the creator was put inside the brazen bull by the king, who was disgusted by the design of such torture tool. The burning bull led to the demise of it creator due to his cruelty. This is exactly what happened to the Iron King.
Hey Dave, I actually have a lot of thoughts on the four old ones and their role in relation with DS1. Can I send that over, it is pretty long >.>
***** Of course! Comment here or PM me - whichever suits you better.
***** Could you send me a copy as well? I am always curios to hear some more theories on the story.
I was just going to mention this due to the setup inside the bull with the spikes, flames and guillotine. It kinda fits the nature of the old king with his history of torturing the undead.
Smelter Demon was the hardest boss by far for me. Spent about 4 hours dying to him over and over.
Him and Darklurker (as a melee only build) were the hardest for me.
yea, smelter is definitely the hardest boss ive fought
***** lmao I hear you. After my first attempt at her with the poison up I thought there must be some sort of fucking trick and googled it. Props to you for beating her like that.
Gyrm Greatshield guys! 100% fireblock makes Smelter Demon just cake.
DaveControlLive Thank god i waited until i could use miracles before i fought the dark lurker.
Actually, mytha was married to vendrick, the old kings son. Vendrick loved nashabdra tho, so mytha got bitchy
Alternative explanation for the giant bull statue: it could be that it was once imbued with life, but instead of dragging the castle into the lava, it could have been what was keeping it up. Maybe the Old Iron King made it to stop or at least slow the castle once it began to sink, but when the Iron King was dead the magic wore off and the castle started sinking again. Just a theory, though... personally I think it's just a decorative statue, acting both as a symbol of power and a manifestation of the king's greed and conceit.
I need more lore videos, I thrive on these. Keep up the good work, this made my day. c:
Glad to hear it!
the gaint hallowed out bull might be a reference to a way of torture long ago i don't remember all the details but i remember learing about gaint hollowed bull and cows they would put ppl inside set a fire underneath and it had something to do with a sound that was made when people squeling in pain grasping for air the only reason i bring this up is because it goes with the theme of torture the iron king set in huntsmens
this made quite the sense after you remember that inside the giant bull there are hundreds of spikes on the walls.
Danothyus And it's the control center for all of the fire in the keep (via that switch near the last bonfire).
Maybe the Iron King did this all on purpose. Maybe he would round up undead, carol them into the bull where he would sit at the top, switching on and off the fire and listening to the screams. Even further, maybe it was the souls of these undead that formed the smelter demon? Just look at the definition of smelter; factory or person that makes metal from ore. Maybe this indicates that souls are the ore for the souls of the golems (smelter demon)? i dunno. even i admit that what i just said has a lot of "maybe"s.
LMAdragon Pretty sure the Smelter's the Balrog.
thats a long walk for a drink of water lmadragon but its a threory and we normally don't get a hard facts so thats good
Dude your content is on point. Binging all of your DSII lore vids right now.
I don’t know which is more criminally under rated, Dark Souls 2, or your videos. Good job!!
Huzzah for Threshold Bridge! PvP anyone?
The Old Iron King just immediately made me think of the Balrog design from Peter Jackson's LOTR films. I'm gonna have to cosplay as Gandalf next time I fight him, just be like "You shall not pass!"
The alone knights are like the black knights in dark souls 1
They do, this may be what a dying soul sounds like considering that at the time of dark souls 1 all the knights are just hollow armors filled with the soul of its wearer.
Gideon Winter but you also find the black knight halberd in Iron Keep. They most likely are not the same per se, but maybe a similar concept. The black knights were burned by the first flame, and the Alonne knights were bathing in lava for who knows how long.
Solaire Kenway Actually the halberd's in shaded woods but the great sword is there, and i have a theory which has SPOILERS, remember the ending dialogue by the emerald herald? how she said all the souls you've collected would flourish again? and ng+ old one drops? they could very well be the reincarnation of the black knights soul's.
AgentAlaska49 that's a good theory, but I think its more of the fact that the black knights' armor was keeping the soul inside of it, so I think by killing it, that hollow soul is being released, and that's the sound it makes. Last time I checked, humans don't roar like that. So maybe the lava burned up the bodies inside the alone knights' armor as well, leaving the soul inside. Their souls COULD be preserved, but I think the great ones only stay because they are so powerful.
Good theory.
Good video as always Dave. Keep up the good work, I'm addicted to these videos. :P
Thanks! Glad you're enjoying! :)
Love this and the rest of your Lore videos! Thanks for sharing!
Not at all, just glad you enjoy! :)
Interesting point you brought up towards the end of the video about the Sinner`s Rise. I am in the process of going through there on NG+ and I will certainly keep an eye out for those doors. Nice video!
I love these lore videos, keep it up!
I dont think Mytha had feelings for the iron king but rather the prince who built belfry sol. You read yourself that the prince had feelings for another woman, which is the princess who built belfry luna
Ah, that's a great point.
I suppose since the text calls him a "king", I figured the item description was correct, and Gilligan's story was slightly off.
EDIT:
I actually think you could be correct - and added an annotation and addendum in the description.
In addition to this, it also explains the Sinner's Rise/Iron Keep connection. While I'm not sure if the Iron King built Sinner's Rise, the bell towers would suggest that the Prince of Alken and the Princess of Venn (along with Queen Myrah, as well) all existed at the same time, thus those two "kingdoms" had some form of communication.
It's strange, though, that we know the names of these characters, yet the Sinner and the Old Iron King are so ancient that their names have been forgotten. Is it possible that the Prince of Alken once laid claim to the Iron Keep as his kingdom, even after it's fall?
HariiMakenji I was speculating that the Prince of Alken might be the iron king before he became the iron king. And the Princess of Venn could be the lost sinner, considering the location of the 2 bells. The bells could be quite old, even before the iron keep and bastille were built.
Xun Zhu I really like this theory. To further expand upon it, could it be possible that the Princess of Venn a skilled Pyromancer, attempted to recreate the first flame for the Prince of Alken, creating the smelter demon, which killed the Prince. This would draw a parallel with the Witch of Izalith, and could also explain why she punishes her self in Sinners Rise, her actions killed the one she loved.
That's a really interesting speculation!
Part of the reason I was thinking Mytha was in love with "The Iron King" was because he was likely a Prince before a King (unless he came to power with war).
But, that's a really cool theory, I mentioned it in my latest "Let's Play" which I'm working on editing right now - I'll give you credit in the description.
If he did come from Gwyn, it's highly likely that he hunted the undead in memory of the undead that destroyed to him
Another great lore video, keep it up dave
Great video, you left me with more questions than answers, but there is one thing that needs to be said because this is one of my favorites,so, as the description of the edged ring reads "Alken and Venn was founded by the same man, but disappeared because of rivalries and rancor", so the lost bastille was Alken and the iron keep was Venn (the prince of Venn that felt in love with the princess of Alken, even when he was married to Mytha), both founded by the iron king, so he was the king maybe before Vendrick, as some say that many kingdoms raised and falled in Drangleic, and i believe, that there is a relation between this new bed of chaos, and the sinner trying to "relight the flames", but cant confirm it, if not, maybe the iron king "linked the fire" just like Gwyn and burned his kingdom with his knights.
I believe From based this lore in greek myth, because of Icarus, the one who burned his wing and created an island, also the minotaur fits in that mythology, because the father of Icarus, built the labyrinth of the minotaur, i just dont know what the minotaur could represent in this case, i hope you find something about it, cheers!
Love it when you used the King's Field soundtrack! Really takes me back :)
What's the lore explanation for Iron Keep being invisible from Harvest Valley? lol
Clearly it's a reverse elevator where you think it's going up, but it's actually going down underneath the ground.
- In all honesty, though, this drives me crazy as well. Seriously - how is it that the Iron Keep - which is one of the HIGHEST point in the game SUNK into a bed of lava?
DaveControlLive If Dranleic were built inside a titanic tree, where areas completely distinct from each other in elevation were in their own little tree hollow with it's own sky and horizon, this would explain it all. There could even be tree hollows on the same elevation which could explain areas with different skies and horizons being on roughly the same level, such as Dranleic Castle and Aldia's Keep. It certainly would help explain some areas like the gigantic round hole in the ground like on the way to the Huntsman's Copse, and the fact that you enter Drangleic in the first place by jumping INTO it.
DaveControlLive I think that the Old Iron Keep is supposed to have been built in a Caldera, which would explain it sinking and yet simultaneously being one of the highest points in the land. If you look around at the scenery near the Old Iron King boss platform, there seems to be a ring of mountains surrounding you, indicating a crater or caldera.
DaveControlLive In the cinematics that were showed during the original trailers with the Manikins (fuck the copyright), the cinders, fire and lava were all visible and noticeable assuming this was the Harvest Valley.
DaveControlLive Perhaps the Iron Castle was built atop a mountain. It would certainly fit the Iron Kings' persona to build his castle on the highest point he can find. The mountain may have actually been a dormant volcano, hence the lava. Mountains are rich in ores and considering the area next to the Iron Keep is a valley (which is a flat depression of land usually surrounded by elevated land) To me it makes sense that the Iron keep is higher then a place called "Earthen Valley". Most everything should be higher then the Valley.
this was actually REALLY good! really good job bro!.. and the smelter glitch lol :) died 3 times on that the first time i played him ;)
8:11 I think there's another similar door in the underground level of the Heide's Tower of Flame.
You're correct!
I think the Iron King just had so much Iron that he didn't know what to do with it, so he created a giant monument of a bull, a creature he clearly identified himself with...maybe he never changed form and always looked like that, which would explain similarities (the horns)
i think the bull statue was created to serve the iron king and possibly to fight the smelter demon but he also had a will of his own and drag the castle to the lava
Some theorists think that the Smelter Demon was created by Eygil, the Old Iron King's best pyromancer. The minotaurs/bulls are also believed to represent Eygil rather than the OIK, this is mainly because of the bonfire found in the top of the minotaur statue just before the OIK boss fight called Eygil's Idol
That was well done.
Thank you!
DaveControlLive Any thoughts on how he became a demon? Gwyn's soul transforming him is all but official, but i can't figure out how did he get killed by Smelter, fell into lava and suddendly BOP giant arch-demon.
Your videos are so great and informative, keep up the magnificent work man. YOU EARNED A SUB!
Glad you enjoy them so much!
Great stuff Dave. Keep it up man.
Thanks man!
7:07 that is why i call the smelter demon a cheater...... that nonsense really got me rage, because i try at least 50 times to beat this demon...... almost half of the reason i fail is this......
I wonder why nobody makes videos about dark souls 2 lore, great video man, consider me subscribed
You can find those doors in Heide also and in many other places.
If bulls symbolize the iron king then the large bull statue could be holding up the castle and when the iron king died it was allowed to fall into the lava .
2:20 That Maiden Astrea theme
i still cant understand the hate of ds2,the story is really good
sometimes it is more interesting than ds1's cuz it has bigger mysteries,ds1 was really rushed in the end(i dont say that ds2 is better than ds1,but y did this game get so much hate?)
I believe it's more mechanics wise and that a lot of mechanics are bad rather than good like ds1
the story is good, the game itself is shit
+Ethan Wood The game was still widely praised none the less
Brilliant Vid!
After a bunch of Lore videos and investigating myself, this is my theory of what happened:
1. The Iron King used the Soul of Light (Gwyn's) to create his kingdom and from its influence he grew to hate the undead.
2. His son Prince Alken was bequeathed to Mytha, the Queen of the neighbouring land, despite loving Venn, the Princess of the Lost Bastille. He and Venn continued to see one another in secret at the Belfry's, guarded by the little bell keepers Venn had created with her Great Soul, the Soul of Life (Izalith's).
3. They were found out. Mytha was crushed to find she wasn't good enough for the man she loved and retreated back into the Earthen Peak, while the Iron King was more interested in the Soul of Life that Venn had. He forced Venn into using the Soul of Life for his own (much more malignant) purposes.
4. As we know from the previous game, Demons are twisted life forms created by the Soul of Life. I believe the Soul of Life was used by order of the Iron King to create a power source for his most ambitious war-machine yet: a titanic metal golem that he could control from the inside (hence the lever to turn it on located in it's head). This bull-headed Golem would be his unstoppable avatar and a monument to his power (and ego).
5. Naturally, the giant golem imeddiately goes berserk, using its titanic form to pull the Iron Keep and its inhabitants into the lava and incinerating Prince Alken and the Iron King. The burning Core then tore itself loose from its restraints, and the raging form of the Smelter Demon was born from the molten slag, stalking the castle and killing whoever was left.
6. Princess Venn, stricken by the horror of watching her lover die to her own creation, locked herself away at the bottom of Sinners rise. There she remained, unable to forgive herself for the horrors she caused and ready to kill anyone who tried to use her Soul of Life for evil again. By the time the player character finds her she has become the Lost Sinner.
7. The Iron King's body, deep within the lake of lava, became the host for Gwyn's Soul and the vessel for Ichorous Earth (the demonic form you find him in).
The main reason I think Izalith's Soul was involved is because the whole tale has a very "Bed of Chaos" style ring to it, and the only beings in the Dark Souls universe that are called Demons were all directly born from it. It makes sense to me that the Smelter Demon is the continuation of that cycle of "life gone wrong".
Feel free to pick holes in my theory, there's enough vagaries that it's certainly not set in stone :)
At the beginning of Iron Keep, as you go over the first bridge, at the end is two giant pillars on each side, with statues on them of soldiers. I wonder who they are.
I also wish to get some more backstory on the Chaos Storm pyromancy spell.
What about the Iron Clads? What are they doing in the optional area of Forest of Fallen Giants?
The "old" iron clads (as they are called) in the forest of the fallen giants were commanded by king vendrick. Chancellor Wellager says that vendrick conquered the four old ones so it isnt odd that he is commanding their forces. Another indication for this is that there are alonne knight captains in drangleic castle.
So when the giants attacked the keep which is now the forest of the fallen giants the old iron clads were stationed there by king vendrick
'Can I get Smelter Demon Indicted?" LOL!!
I saw the old iron king and thought," the balrog... YOU SHALL NOT PASS"
bull could just be refrence of king minos which the king of crete who was tyrant and had Minotaur monster. the crete symbol was a bull which pride made gods angry at him. so it easly possible that bull statue was alive to destroy the castle since he has some connection to Gywn
I feel like there are several Greek Mythology references in Dark Souls 2, so it would make sense they'd delve into Midas.
the bull statue might have been made to pull up the keep by the iron king
Dave, those doors you mentioned at the end are also in Heide. The archway after the knight that drops the sublime bone dust has one and the other is missing. There's also a bit before the No Man's Wharf bonfire where the doors are smashed in and you can't open them. The same design is in multiple areas, which I find really interesting.
Perhaps it was simply to indicate an older design? Though, the Iron King built is castle... so that would imply the doors as well.
Or... we're all just reading too much into it (including myself), haha.
DaveControlLive Perhaps the doors are looking into it too much, but I've been spotting that a lot of areas have some major links. Not only are there Alonne Knights in Drangleic Castle (as you already know) but there's two statues of the old knights in Heide at the entrance to the room where you meet the queen as well. And going back to the doors - if they do mean anything, the same design is also in the castle.
Well there is DLC coming out called the sunken crowns and the second episode is about the old iron kings crown so we MIGHT get some answers from that.
It looks to me like the mouth if the bull used to be able to move. It could have been the type of construct as the ironclad soldiers
The girant bull looks like it is keeping the rest of the castle from sinking down like it is pulling it up by the way the arm is positioned and how he his grasping it.
You know i wonder if the jester you summon to help kill Mytha has anything that helps with the lore or confuse things really like him being a pyromancer might have some connections.
I love how the Gwyn theme plays just when Gwyn is mentioned, gives a nerdgasm.
The last bonfire inside the head of the giant statue is named Eygil's Idol, i think that reasonably gives us the Old Iron King's name.
I think it could either be the King's name, or the name of a God he worshipped. (As, typically that's what an idol is for). But, either way, that's a great point.
Hey Dave, I noticed that in the description of the Baneful Queen's soul it says something about a poison found "Deep within the earth". Could it be that she's a survivor of the destruction of the Sunken Crown's city or took some of the poison from Sinh the dragon?
Great video as always Dave. Aldia would be great for the next video. I've heard people, maybe it was you, say that the Ancient Dragon could be Aldia.
Yeah - that was me. (And TerraMantis).
And, thanks! I think he's one of the most interesting characters in the game, so would definitely be fun to cover!
I am really enjoying these lore videos! Nicely done... Subscribed...
This was really great!
holy shit this is a good video. subbed. you got way more lore videos on dark souls 2 than most
I believe that when the king was killed by the smelter demon he began to hallow, and the fear of becoming what he hunted for sport was to great. He sought the help of the lost sinner, who we know at one point tried to reignite the first flame, to stave off the curse. But this caused the iron keep to spout lava much like lost izalith did when it happend there. The king was transformed into a demon from this event, he does look like he belongs in the demon ruins after all.
Interesting note; the Iron King was at some point in cahoots with King Vendrick. This can be inferred by the Old Ironclad set (as opposed to just the Ironclad Set) and the presence of Alonne Knights in Drangleic Castle.
I have never gotten stuck inside the wall in the smelter demon fight. I don't know why that always happens to everyone else. I feel left out.
It could be possible that the Iron King had the Sinner's Rise made in order to house the Lost Sinner; who is the last remaining Witch of Izalith. He allowed the cruel torture take place there as well, but decided to mix things up by giving her a sword to fight back with as the mask she wore unleashed agony on her throughout. This would explain why she totally flips out and tries to murder you; she thought you were the next set of torturers. Huzzah for speculation!
Well since the bull is called "Eyjil's Idol" or something, it's pretty much clear that it was never alive, just a statue (which is what "idol" means, usually refers to a mythological or powerful being). Eyjil would have been a god born from Gwyn's soul (I know it seems weird, but if the original soul was the greatest god ever, the new, less powerful remains of it could become a smaller deity or something), Eyjil cherished the King just like Gwyn cherished his kingdom (since it's only a part of the original souls it has to take over something smaller); he protected him and guided him to a place rich with iron where the King got wealth, power, and a kingdom.
The king built the castle and placed multiple statues of Eyjil in his honor, to thank him for the protection. However, they would become closer to each other every day and thus parts of Eyjil's soul started to mix with the King's; Eyjil had a mad fascination with fire (inherited from Gwyn) and through the king he started to dig deeper and deeper in search of a constant, powerful source of fire (that he would direct to his idols and make the castle even more "glorious"). At this point the king was merely a husk, and when the smelter demon (his own personal guard who acquired conscience and he got closer to the fire beneath the earth) killed him by tossing him into the flames as he contemplated Eyjil's Idol, Eyjil was set free and sprouted from the flame as Ichorous Earth.
Far fetched i know, but pretty cool right?
One of the most interesting theories i've seen yet.
thanks
Eygil or the King?
the Bull contruction. to me the bull looked to be the only statue holding the keep up, if what you say is true and the king died from the smelter. then its more poetic to believe that his many knights that served him, built the Bull monument in his honor, its Iron grasp holding the keep, the last most proud possession of the king, from sinking to the depths.
I did find it odd that the Iron King didn't take a form closer to the bulls he idolized, it more resembles a dragon than a bull, perhaps if it didn't have wings.
Same thing happened to me at 7:04 Also, great vid Dave.
I posted a video on it, and was surprised how many people it had happened to. I guess it makes the joke that much better, though, haha.
And, thanks! :)
Great Vid. Hate smelter though, he did that glitch to me like five times in a row, Him and Darklurker were the bane of my existence.
Have u looked at the smelter demon armor set
"The old Iron King was possessed of a great bounty of ore, but was incinerated by a creature that rose from the infernal depths of the earth."
This makes me believe that the smelter demon or the "Iron king" that we fight could of came and flooded the Iron keep or that gwyn had taken over him and created the iron king that we fight
With every Dark Souls 2 Lore video I watch, on any channel, I realize more and more that cat is the Lutece of this game.
I've seen the same door somewhere else, I think it was the Crypt.
Judging by the name 'Smelter' Demon, it was probably created by the Iron King to smelt down all the iron ore he found in Harvest Valley (apparenlty full of minerals). The Demon had a will of it's own and killed the king.
A BALROG OF MORGOTH
What do you think about Lord Gwyns Soul, a honorable king, being resurrected?? or consumed?? by the Iron King, who was clearly a mad man? When i got the Old Kings Soul for the first time I was confused why Ichorous has it. I expected maybe Seaths soul (granted Freja makes more sense) or even fragments of the 4 Kings Soul.
sry for my english^^
It would seem fair to think that gwyns soul is stolen, after all man full of greed and lust for power would want something like "god's" soul
Well after the undead were born Gwyn supported the undead hunts by the Way of White and even threw himself into the fire to reverse the case, as he feared the undead. I imagined that's why the cat calls him a liar. He chose his kingdom over his people.
bryanZ17 that sounds rly convincing, forgot about the undead hunts
I don't know if I would call the Iron King a "mad man" - per se. More-so greedy and full of himself. But - Both Reigo and bryanZ had great responses!
One thing you forgot to mention:
The bull statues represent the real-life torture/execution device called 'the brazen bull', which is probably the most twisted thing ever.
It kind of links with the whole undead-hunting theme.
Also u can find chaos pyromancy in the iron keep possibly linking it to the lost sinner with famous pyromancy from the old witch (izalith I believe)
Two theories:
1. Old Iron King = Chosen Undead (Dark Lord Ending)
2. At 5:12, the cat is actually talking about the Chosen Undead (Link the Fire Ending).
What is the name of the music at 5:59? It sounds really good, wow..
King's Field: The Ancient City - The Ancient City Levels 1 & 2.
(It's one of FromSoftware's previous games).
Maybe the iron bull thingy was trying to pull the castle up (if it was alive) from the lava but because of the weight of the castle it didn't succeed but it never stopped from trying and hollowed out in its actions. That's my guess.
The statue on the side is actually an idol created by eygil, a pyromancer who worked for the old iron king. He was also the one who created the smelter demon. You get to know more about him in the dlc
Very interesting video. In my humble opinion, the Old King's soul obtained in NG+ is not the soul of Gwyn, but the soul that was shared among the Four Kings of New Londo. This way, every Old One of DS2 carries a lord soul of DS1 (RottenNito, FrejaSeath, SinnerWitch of Izalith, and Iron KingFour Kings). I think it makes more sense, because we have to get all of them to rekindle the fire, and the souls seem to be the fuel for the fire. Well, in DS1, the Dark Soul (humanity) seemed to be the fuel, and in DS2 we don't know where the Dark Souls is (no humanities anymore), but the soul of a powerful undead seems to do the trick.
Eygil's Idol is the name of the bonfire atop the the massive bull. I believe this was the name of the king.
One thing I had a thought about Is if dranglec is lorando bright stone cove. Might be the crystal caverns because. Well when dark souls two came out and I made it to bright stone I just feel that it was the crystal caves but extremely mined out.
0:07:27 I once did the same thing as Smelter Demon did with someone in PvP. :p The invading phantom got stuck inside the wall.
***** TOMBI!!
Dude I swear I see you comment multiple times on every dark souls 2 video I have watched from multiple uploaders...
iiDeFyReaLiTy Anything wrong about it? =0
I crumbled into a pile of leaves. My only escape, fire. Dave, you da man!
Anyone else wonder why the key to open the cages before the Lost Sinner fight can be found in Belfry Luna, especially if there is so much speculation that the tower itself was built by the Iron King? I think it's possible the Lost Sinner is both The Prince, and the Princess. The bug in the lost Sinners mask, is identical to the one in the bed of chaos, ~which is the transformed witch of izalyth~. So why would there be a bug and a body? This also provides an answer for why the Lost Sinners body looks primarily male.
hey guys!
i just wanted to meantion that the doors at sinners rise and old iron keep can be also found at the secret path from heides tower of flame to no mans wharf. If you follow the path to the bonfire you go up the stairs in the waterfilled room and at the end you can find the broken door.
Dave, the sunken king had elana the squalid queen right. but what about the old iron king that "had feelings for another?" could she be another fragment of manus' soul?
Hey dave, just putting it out theres but gwyn wasnt lord of sun, but rather light in general. His son (who people still arent entirely sure is solaire) is the lord of sun but he was exiled or something i cant remember the specifics of that part
it's probably not related, but the fire and hollow metal bulls put me in the mind of an old roman torture device. it was a hollow metal bull that a person is locked inside, then a fire is lit underneath the bull. i have no idea why one of those would be holding onto the castle spire though. perhaps thats why there is a bonfire inside the giant bull, undead were forced into the bull en masse, died a very painful death due to the heat from the lava, then reformed at the bonfire only to experience it all again endlessly.
I think the Iron Bull was symbolic, it represents the Iron king and His pride and tries to lift itself up above the castle itself and above anything and anyone else out of arrogance.
But by doing that, it inevitable dragged the iron castle and the kings kingdom down with it.
I don`t think it was alive at any point though.
it was a gift to pyromancer eygil for helping the iron king