Personally I think there shouldn't have been a trail at all, I mean come on, they are in a middle of a war and yet here is Sisko criticises Worf for a making a military decision and taking military action. I'm not saying that firing on civilians is right, but Worf actions were justified he was in the middle of a battle, fighting cloaked Klingon ships, had just been fired on by one with another cloak ship decloaking right in front of them. If that had been a actual Klingon warship and Worf had waited, the Defiant and everyone on board, would likely have been killed. It's so stupid any soldier who has fought in a war can tell you that if you hesitant in battle you will get yourself or someone nearby you killed as your enemy is less likely to hesitant. Sisko knows this by his own admission, stating that decisions like that cost people's lives and the Federations battles, and yet he continues to criticises Worf's actions. Any commanding officers would have taken the same action that Worf did since it is there responsibility to ensure the safety and wellbeing of his crew. It's not like Worf intentionally fired on civilians. That kind of thinking that Sisko is preaching makes their officers hesitant in battle and cost them not only battles but also lives. Seriously if the Federation had any sense and instead of judging Worf on his action and actually looked at what happened, they would have seen it for the obvious ploy that it was, Since why would a civilian ship just up and appear in a ongoing battle right in front of an enemy ship, any civilian ship with any sense would have stayed cloaked and headed away from the battle, not decloak and appear in the middle of it right in front of a enemy ship. Also Secondly why the hell would a civilian transport ship even have a cloak? the Klingons aren't going to put something as valuable as a cloak on a simple civilian transport, hell Picard had to even blackmail Gowron into giving him one to sneak into Romulus
@@Lightingwarrior Your conclusion is drawn from an incorrect premise. Starfleet does not consider itself to be a military. They don't consider themselves soldiers, they're explorers hoping to see a brand new comet, and later catalogue the plant life of some swamp three thousand light years away from home. Starfleet, from their point of view, is meant to be the best of humanity (for lack of a better word). Ethics matter more than victory. "Seriously if the Federation had any sense and instead of judging Worf on his action and actually looked at what happened, they would have seen it for the obvious ploy that it was, " Also I'd argue this hearing/arbitration is the Federation "looking into what happened". A wise captain once said "a courtroom is a crucible. In it we burn away irrelevancies until we are left with a pure product - the truth, for all time."
@@Roreck86 That a load a bull it doesn't matter if they see themselves as explorers or solider they are fighting a war and on a battlefield and when you fight a war you are a soldier/fighter nothing more and if you don't fight to win your dead. It simple common sense. Ethic's is all well and good but they are no good when your dead or you side loses. Furthermore you talk about how Starfleet values ethic's more than winning, where were these ethic's when section 31 infected Odo's people and they refuses to give the cure once it was discovered. Another example is where were these ethic's when the starfleet refused to help the Romulans when their sun went nova or gave the go ahead for sisko plan to trick the Romulans to enter the war on their side, and before say they didn't know, they did since he had to get permission to precede with his operation/plan. You talk about the courtroom is a crucible, but that is only true when you are trying to discover the truth, when the truth was it was a obvious frame up job, A fact you are ignoring since as I stated earlier ,(along with other points), why would something as valuable as a cloak be on a civilian transport, unless it was used in a military compacity and not transporting civilians. If Starfleet had actually investigated the matter correctly instead of holding this useless trail, they would have discovered it was a frame-up
Personally I think the reasons for Worf's trail could have been done better since the reason for it sucked and made no sense I mean come on, they are in a middle of a war and yet here is Sisko criticises Worf for a making a military decision and taking military action. I'm not saying that firing on civilians is right, but Worf actions were justified he was in the middle of a battle, fighting cloaked Klingon ships, had just been fired on by one with another cloak ship decloaking right in front of them. If that had been a actual Klingon warship and Worf had waited, the Defiant and everyone on board, would likely have been killed. It's so stupid any soldier who has fought in a war can tell you that if you hesitant in battle you will get yourself or someone nearby you killed as your enemy is less likely to hesitant. Sisko knows this by his own admission, stating that decisions like that cost people's lives and the Federations battles, and yet he continues to criticises Worf's actions. Any commanding officers would have taken the same action that Worf did since it is their responsibility to ensure the safety and wellbeing of his crew. It's not like Worf intentionally fired on civilians. That kind of thinking that Sisko is preaching makes their officers hesitant in battle and cost them not only battles but also the lives of their own people. Seriously if the Federation had any sense and instead of judging Worf on his actions and actually looked at what happened, they would have seen it for the obvious ploy that it was, Since why would a civilian ship just up and appear in a ongoing battle right in front of an enemy ship, any civilian ship with any sense would have stayed cloaked and headed away in the battle, not decloak and appear in the middle of it right in front of a enemy ship. Also Secondly why the hell would a civilian transport ship even have a cloak? the Klingons aren't going to put something as valuable as a cloak on a simple civilian transport, hell Picard had to even blackmail Gowron into giving him one to sneak into Romulus
Ezri Dax was right about the Klingon Empire’s toleration of corruption. In this episode, the Klingons used subterfuge and scheming to accomplish their goals in discrediting Worf. An Empire, that supposedly prides honor above all else, that longs for battle against equal or superior foes, and that believes that one should look their enemy in the eye before killing them, staged this behind the curtain event just so they could quietly sweep Worf and the convoys aside without having to deal with either of them in a fight. As Picard once said; “You have manipulated the circumstances with the skill of a Romulan.”
I actually would have liked to have seen another episode involving the advocate. I never saw him as a bad guy. He was proceeding under the assumption that the facts were factual. He actually looked... ashamed... as he realized that he had been manipulated like that..
That's because he realized he had been used, the klingon great housed always been rotten to their core and he realized he was caught in the middle of their machinations.
Was he used though? Or did he know? I wonder if his shame is actually because Sisko (thanks to Odo) had figured out their scheme and he couldn't hide anymore. He went from being so smug and righteous earlier, to pretty damn subdued once the reveal had happened.
@@bobpage6597 I suppose that's a valid way to look at it. But the character never seemed to be doing anything but his job, based strictly on the information he was given. He seemed legitimately surprised when the undeniable info came to light.
Watch the scene that comes after this one. In the end, Ch'Pok was completely right about Worf's motivations and actions. Worf escaped on the technicality that it was a fraud.
ummmm... When the destroyed ship was cleaned up" and investigated, how could it not be determined that the organic matter did or did not comprise the claimed dead? Even NOW we have dental records and blood samples to prove who dies in car crashes.
Replicate a corpse. Or clone one. Trivial technology, used as far back as Enterprise. Also the ship was destroyed by a mater/antimatter explosion, then a Warp Core breach. While there was still a battle going on, delaying any rescue and forensics work.
I'm.not using my spiritual helper, so some things need to be explained. But also if you guys qaite my.memmory it's hard to keep my word at times because. I cant remember. Make sense. If I cant remember how can I keep it
Also if my.memorry is being whipe then how can I remember something. I cant keep my word if I cant remember my word. No insult you just have to remember from my side and I'm not gona show this to anyone. But that 4 guy rape thing is not called 4.
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Of all Star Fleet captains…Sisko is the one you really don’t wanna piss off
Worf was VERY fortunate to have a very thorough Constable Odo that found this detail that Benjamin Sisko thoroughly enjoyed presenting in court.
Personally I think there shouldn't have been a trail at all,
I mean come on, they are in a middle of a war and yet here is Sisko criticises Worf for a making a military decision and taking military action. I'm not saying that firing on civilians is right, but Worf actions were justified he was in the middle of a battle, fighting cloaked Klingon ships, had just been fired on by one with another cloak ship decloaking right in front of them. If that had been a actual Klingon warship and Worf had waited, the Defiant and everyone on board, would likely have been killed.
It's so stupid any soldier who has fought in a war can tell you that if you hesitant in battle you will get yourself or someone nearby you killed as your enemy is less likely to hesitant. Sisko knows this by his own admission, stating that decisions like that cost people's lives and the Federations battles, and yet he continues to criticises Worf's actions. Any commanding officers would have taken the same action that Worf did since it is there responsibility to ensure the safety and wellbeing of his crew. It's not like Worf intentionally fired on civilians. That kind of thinking that Sisko is preaching makes their officers hesitant in battle and cost them not only battles but also lives.
Seriously if the Federation had any sense and instead of judging Worf on his action and actually looked at what happened, they would have seen it for the obvious ploy that it was,
Since why would a civilian ship just up and appear in a ongoing battle right in front of an enemy ship, any civilian ship with any sense would have stayed cloaked and headed away from the battle, not decloak and appear in the middle of it right in front of a enemy ship.
Also Secondly why the hell would a civilian transport ship even have a cloak? the Klingons aren't going to put something as valuable as a cloak on a simple civilian transport, hell Picard had to even blackmail Gowron into giving him one to sneak into Romulus
@@Lightingwarrior Your conclusion is drawn from an incorrect premise. Starfleet does not consider itself to be a military. They don't consider themselves soldiers, they're explorers hoping to see a brand new comet, and later catalogue the plant life of some swamp three thousand light years away from home.
Starfleet, from their point of view, is meant to be the best of humanity (for lack of a better word). Ethics matter more than victory.
"Seriously if the Federation had any sense and instead of judging Worf on his action and actually looked at what happened, they would have seen it for the obvious ploy that it was, "
Also I'd argue this hearing/arbitration is the Federation "looking into what happened". A wise captain once said "a courtroom is a crucible. In it we burn away irrelevancies until we are left with a pure product - the truth, for all time."
@@Roreck86 That a load a bull it doesn't matter if they see themselves as explorers or solider they are fighting a war and on a battlefield and when you fight a war you are a soldier/fighter nothing more and if you don't fight to win your dead. It simple common sense.
Ethic's is all well and good but they are no good when your dead or you side loses. Furthermore you talk about how Starfleet values ethic's more than winning, where were these ethic's when section 31 infected Odo's people and they refuses to give the cure once it was discovered. Another example is where were these ethic's when the starfleet refused to help the Romulans when their sun went nova or gave the go ahead for sisko plan to trick the Romulans to enter the war on their side, and before say they didn't know, they did since he had to get permission to precede with his operation/plan.
You talk about the courtroom is a crucible, but that is only true when you are trying to discover the truth, when the truth was it was a obvious frame up job, A fact you are ignoring since as I stated earlier ,(along with other points), why would something as valuable as a cloak be on a civilian transport, unless it was used in a military compacity and not transporting civilians. If Starfleet had actually investigated the matter correctly instead of holding this useless trail, they would have discovered it was a frame-up
@@Roreck86 That was the Uber British, tea drinking, Hamlet reciting 'Frenchman' Jean-Luc Picard! He cool though.
Odo is the MAN!
This is one of the best scenes in whole ST. Just shows how good Avery Brooks is as an actor.
Personally I think the reasons for Worf's trail could have been done better since the reason for it sucked and made no sense
I mean come on, they are in a middle of a war and yet here is Sisko criticises Worf for a making a military decision and taking military action. I'm not saying that firing on civilians is right, but Worf actions were justified he was in the middle of a battle, fighting cloaked Klingon ships, had just been fired on by one with another cloak ship decloaking right in front of them. If that had been a actual Klingon warship and Worf had waited, the Defiant and everyone on board, would likely have been killed.
It's so stupid any soldier who has fought in a war can tell you that if you hesitant in battle you will get yourself or someone nearby you killed as your enemy is less likely to hesitant. Sisko knows this by his own admission, stating that decisions like that cost people's lives and the Federations battles, and yet he continues to criticises Worf's actions. Any commanding officers would have taken the same action that Worf did since it is their responsibility to ensure the safety and wellbeing of his crew. It's not like Worf intentionally fired on civilians. That kind of thinking that Sisko is preaching makes their officers hesitant in battle and cost them not only battles but also the lives of their own people.
Seriously if the Federation had any sense and instead of judging Worf on his actions and actually looked at what happened, they would have seen it for the obvious ploy that it was,
Since why would a civilian ship just up and appear in a ongoing battle right in front of an enemy ship, any civilian ship with any sense would have stayed cloaked and headed away in the battle, not decloak and appear in the middle of it right in front of a enemy ship.
Also Secondly why the hell would a civilian transport ship even have a cloak? the Klingons aren't going to put something as valuable as a cloak on a simple civilian transport, hell Picard had to even blackmail Gowron into giving him one to sneak into Romulus
The Sisko channeling his idol and inner Captain James Tiberius Kirk.
Ezri Dax was right about the Klingon Empire’s toleration of corruption. In this episode, the Klingons used subterfuge and scheming to accomplish their goals in discrediting Worf. An Empire, that supposedly prides honor above all else, that longs for battle against equal or superior foes, and that believes that one should look their enemy in the eye before killing them, staged this behind the curtain event just so they could quietly sweep Worf and the convoys aside without having to deal with either of them in a fight.
As Picard once said; “You have manipulated the circumstances with the skill of a Romulan.”
Sisko is subconsciously pulling.
A.
Kirk.
Speech.
Of all the captains kirk and sisko are the most similar
What. Does. This. MeEaAAnnnnnnNNn?!?
But Judge Sisko has a trait I've never seen in another Captain: Annunciating. Every. Single. Syllable.
Consciously. Sisko was a big fan, he even took the risk while time travelling of meeting Kirk and getting his autograph.
I actually would have liked to have seen another episode involving the advocate. I never saw him as a bad guy. He was proceeding under the assumption that the facts were factual. He actually looked... ashamed... as he realized that he had been manipulated like that..
That's because he realized he had been used, the klingon great housed always been rotten to their core and he realized he was caught in the middle of their machinations.
Was he used though? Or did he know? I wonder if his shame is actually because Sisko (thanks to Odo) had figured out their scheme and he couldn't hide anymore. He went from being so smug and righteous earlier, to pretty damn subdued once the reveal had happened.
@@bobpage6597 I suppose that's a valid way to look at it.
But the character never seemed to be doing anything but his job, based strictly on the information he was given. He seemed legitimately surprised when the undeniable info came to light.
Isn’t. IT. POSSIBLE?
.....yes.
And then they did it again.
That line works perfectly with what just happened on Strange new worlds 1x10. XD
1:42....."You are an expert on the KLINGON EMPIRE!" - Avery really notched the drama up with his delivery there haha!
SUCH. GOOD. DICTION.
Isn't. It. Possible. That the ship. He. Saw. Was sending out false. Sensor. Images?
"Isn't it possible?"
Isn't that exactly the same line used in to defend OJ Simpson during his trial?
Lmao
Sen-soar
This was Benjamin Sisko’s Perry Mason moment.
"Care to step onto MY battleground?"
Let us all remember that the 1990s to the early 2000s were the highest watermark of television...
That's two Klingons that Sisko intimidates.
Sisko intimidates gowron too. The guys net export is intimidation
@@tenkenroointimidation and pimp hands.
It is also possible Klingon agents USING civilian ships to trick the Federation as well. I support Worf 100% here.
Watch the scene that comes after this one. In the end, Ch'Pok was completely right about Worf's motivations and actions.
Worf escaped on the technicality that it was a fraud.
No wonder sisko intimidates Worf. Dude can intimidate anyone
Is it me or does that Klingon look like Daniel Cromier?🤣😂🤣😂
"Push me now; get slept later!"
The Klingon wasn't nearly inane and incomprehensible enough when he spoke to be D.C.
You think I’m gonna just sit here and let you kill me, Worf?
I know most ppl will say Kirk or Picard were the best captains, but for me it's Sisko all the way and DS9 wasnt even my fav trek
Sisko was a general in the trenches with his own men. Picard was the commander on a white horse at the rear of the troops
@@tenkenrooUntil the TNG movies, then he becomes Rambo with an antique collection.
The Klingons are easily worse than the romulans and Kardashians combined 😂
ummmm...
When the destroyed ship was cleaned up" and investigated, how could it not be determined that the organic matter did or did not comprise the claimed dead?
Even NOW we have dental records and blood samples to prove who dies in car crashes.
The ship was vaporized in space. Organic matter would not survive in space.
Replicated remains of the dead?
Replicate a corpse. Or clone one. Trivial technology, used as far back as Enterprise.
Also the ship was destroyed by a mater/antimatter explosion, then a Warp Core breach.
While there was still a battle going on, delaying any rescue and forensics work.
The Moon's gravitational pull obscured the DNA from sensor scans.
@@lazlow9640 kek
Sisko should be the admiral of starfleet bring him back 😢
Episode name
Rules of Engagement. Directed by Geordi LaForge himself!
I'm not exactly sure what the question asked to Worf is.
I'm.not using my spiritual helper, so some things need to be explained. But also if you guys qaite my.memmory it's hard to keep my word at times because. I cant remember. Make sense. If I cant remember how can I keep it
Also if my.memorry is being whipe then how can I remember something. I cant keep my word if I cant remember my word. No insult you just have to remember from my side and I'm not gona show this to anyone. But that 4 guy rape thing is not called 4.
Hva faen?
?