Literally everyone does it. How do you think cities compete for jobs and money. They give good deals to bring them in. Otherwise what would be the point. Just build your factory in Mexico were the cheap labor makes up for no incentives
As Mi resident and tax payer, i don't care one way or the other about the rencen. The only thing i care about is my taxes should not go towards it or GM. They've been bailed out enough.
There should not be one cent of taxpayer dollars put into the renovation, and no demo permit should be granted. If GM wants to sell, fine - it can sell for what a buyer will pay. There is no reason to subsidize it. Downtown condos around the huge lobby area can make this a city within the city and lead to a new future. Barra is just trying to come up with another reason to get taxpayer funds so that she can buyback more shares and get a bonus for herself. That should not be a basis for taxpayer expenditures.
Totally agree that not a single cent of tax dollars should fund this, AND, that GM should be forced to deal with it, but the fact is, nobody will buy that building. It has office space sufficient to house every single office worker in the entire city with room to spare. You can’t run an efficient company with all that extra and unnecessary overhead. The city couldn’t afford to run the ren cen for a single day, let alone the eternity it will take to build up the city to the point where it could become viable. There’s no choice but to demo it or to let it rot and become a dangerous eyesore. We just better not get stuck with the bill.
Plenty of potential private apartment owners would buy into a planned condo conversion. With numbers, re-establishing services like power and water would be affordable. Perhaps there is a hidden fault here? Like sinking into the ground?
These buildings cannot be converted to apartments because of the cheap concrete original build that only ran the scantest water system throughout capable of only 1 bathroom on each full floor. The heating and cooling are constantly out, the buildings sway and creak in the slightest winds, and the entire design of the building is huge wasted 30-40' high ceilings that cannot in any way be efficient to heat. The building (which I worked in for years) is a mess and you would spend more "converting" it to a sub-standard condo than just starting over. Poured concrete buildings in the shape of a circle turn out to be a bit of silliness that should never have happened.
ah yes..."the hope of a new future" the ancient echo of the young metropolitan ... howling through the shells of the empty buildings in these apocalyptic cities.... though nostalgic and cute, as soon as y'all start earning a little money you wisely run for the Hills realizing that dreams alone will never redeem a city from the throes of a liberal nightmare like the race baiting and greed which destroyed this city 50y ago.... Does the city still charge its residents income down there? ...lol
because it prevents the price of office space from falling too low for all the other developers to make money, just like thhey bulldozed all the neighborhoods around detroit
Because it's a dated, downtown-killing project that, like so many other mega-developments in the 1970's that are self-contained, aloof-from-the-city, glass monsters, never should have been built in the first place.
@@kevindickey6020rencen isn’t like that. There’s a ton of retail on the ground floor enclosed in an atrium, and the density of this development is so high that it’s single-handedly responsible for much of the foot traffic in that area. It’s also mixed use (with hotels, dining, etc.) so it’s not a dead zone after 5pm. This is definitely one of the best 70s era redevelopment projects.
@@kevindickey6020 Wrong. Those structures and others like them are a symbol of industrial progress, a show of how our country has continued to move forward and grow with demands of industry instead of staying in the stone age!
As a nine year old young boy, my dad, who worked for Clawson Concrete, took me to work with him when the center tower only had 2x4 guardrails on every floor. He took me to one of the top most floors, told me he'd be back in a few minutes and like any young boy would do, I walked to the edge of the bare concrete floor and looked over the edge. The place was massive and amazing. A great memory...
Keep all the buildings. Don’t spend money to destroy buildings. You don’t know what the demand will be in 5-10 years. Why destroy long standing structures when the train station was never demolished. Now it’s a gem. Imagine what the future for the RenCen could be if you focus on preserving it instead of trying to abandon it.
You have to account for the cost of holding on to the unoccupied space. It will cost GM millions a a year to maintain the vacant towers. The city/state should just cover what they are being asked to cover. Calling it a Detroit icon and telling people how important it is to the city whilst not wanting to help with it is a bit silly.
You can’t just keep the building up just because you want it up. Every floor has to be rented out in our of it to stay afloat. There just isn’t demand in Detroit and the longer it stands empty the more costly it becomes.
This is idiotic. There is no reason for GM to relocate other than idiocy and a desire to burn money. It's even dumber to demolish the iconic buildings instead of renting them out or selling them. The CEO's desire to have a nicer office shouldn't be a reason for GM to waste millions of dollars moving unnecessarily.
Actually, there’s a great reason to get out of there. If you want to build an outstanding company, you need outstanding people. The outstanding people won’t go down to the D if there are good jobs in the suburbs, where it’s safe, clean, close, and you don’t have a municipal income tax. GM made one of the worst decisions in its history moving down there in the first place, solely for tax incentives and perceptions.
@@haredr6511 GM is moving to another location blocks away also in downtown. Try again. Also, you should try watching the videos you're commenting on before commenting.
@@2011blueman Actually, you ought to try actually reading comments before posting against them. My comment was that GM, as a failed organization, ought to look back on its reasons for failures, a primary of which is its people. You setup shop where the best people are, not the other way around. The best of the best will not go down there; not to the rencen, not to their office building down the street.
@@haredr6511 lol, not at all what you wrote, and now you're going back and editing your previous comment to attempt to salvage your terrible comment. My comment and this video is about GM moving a block away. If you want to comment about GM moving somewhere else then you should write your own separate comment instead of trying to argue with me about it because that's not what my comment was about or what this video is about.
GM has been wasting money for decades. Mary Barra is all about profit and screw the buyer. GM hires flunky engineers that churn out 4th rate products. They will never change.
Not getting fired anytime soon, the company is doing amazing…. -54 days of inventory, so you know they aren't stuffing channels • #1 in full sized pickups (if you combine Chevy and GMC) • Average sale price of $53,000, well above industry average • Chevrolet highest sales since 2019 • Trax sales up 83%, #1 in small SUVs • Cadillac sales highest since 2016 • Escalade #1 in Large Luxury SUVs (11th year in a row) • Lyria #1 in midsized EV luxury SUV (I looked it up, this is because Tesla classifies the Model Y 1 size class smaller) • GMC best sales ever in history • Sierra and Canyon both had its best sales ever • Denali sub brand saw its best sales ever • Buick sales highest since 2021 • GM is #2 in US EV sales She’s doing a great job.
@@gordoncheswick4169 Absolutely pathetic Detroit leadership. This is why other large cities are world class and Detroit isn’t. No vision. They just tear down all of their historical and cultural landmarks to the highest bidder.
@@axelfoley1406 Goes along with the fallacy of Detroit's comeback. Lived here my entire life. Downtown has always been nice. Venture out a block or two and its a very different story.
Only in America can we look at these big beautiful, totally up to date buildings, and somehow come up with the idea of just destroying them, as the best way to move forward. Insane.
I’ve spent many special evenings and weekends at this hotel. The view from the lounge on the top floor is stunning, and it’s especially romantic and relaxing with whoever you’re in love with enjoying an evening during a snow storm. Anniversary and birthday dinners are wonderful with its view on display around you. Detroits skyline would be permanently ruined if this was demolished.
@@antoinemoorman5754 The complex was built in 1970s. Back then and before the pandemic. Thousands of people worked downtown and that’s including residence from Canada!
I spent my teenage years running in and out of that building. They have a show room on the ground floor that you can sit inside of all the new GM cars. On the very top of the building there’s a revolving restaurant/ bar formerly Coach Insignia that had the best views in Michigan. You could see 30 miles past Detroit or 30 miles into Canada looking the other way. The best part was the all glass private elevator ride up to the top where the restaurant was. Being young and dumb one day I swiped a wine glass whole at the bar that had their logo and name on it. I still have it to this day sitting in my closet. A little piece of Detroit history, my way to remember such an awesome memory factory for me.
Not to mention there's a very good HAM radio repeater system on top of the RenCen that's owned by the GM amateur radio club. Those repeaters cover well into Ontario Canada.
@@cl5619 It's a great building that suffers from lack of skywalks between the towers. Turning 4 towers instead of 2 into apartments, adding another 600 to 800 apartments, would give the residential density needed to support retail in the core. I love traditional architecture, but for the many people who do appreciate modernist architecture, the Ren Cen is a historic structure that could be a functional time capsule into the 22nd century.
@@alanmcentee9457 Supply is supply and the only way to lower the overall cost of housing is to add more supply. The richer people can buy those high-end condos, so that they're not taking up space in other apartments that can be more accessible to those who have less money, etc.
General Motors really shouldn't be considered American company anymore. Only 33% of vehicles are made in North America. They lobbed federal government for EV tax credits losing market share fast!!!
It's 55 year-old plumbing, and electrical systems. Every office is oudated by 20-55 years. It's the taxpayers who don't want to see it demolished, but they also don't want to pay to keep it. So, down it goes. GM built a new headquarters and will demo the old one for cheaper than renovating the Ren Cen. Tax payer money would make up the difference of the renovation but tax payers don't want to pay the difference.
@@kevins.3573so, you’re saying they didn’t know this 50+ years ago and set funds in escrow in anticipation of future, predictable expenses? Color me surprised! Lol. The accountants know how to depreciate assets, but seem incapable of thinking long term. Socialize costs, privatize profits.
The Ren Cen holds a lot of memories for me. I live across the Detroit river in Windsor. As a young man we would often ride our bikes to Dieppe park to watch it being built. Heading to Cobo Hall for a concert the Ren Cen is the first thing you see when exiting the Detroit Windsor tunnel. We would often head into the Ren Cen for a few adult beverages before a concert. The lights reflecting off the Ren Cen during the annual fireworks display every summer. My wife and I had dinner in the restaurant atop the center tower when we were courting. Personally think it would be a shame to demolish such an iconic part of Detroit's history.
same! I love waking up each morning and looking at the Renaissance Center across the river... it would be a crime to destroy such beautiful towers, without trying to renovate them into apatments first...
That's been a iconic Detroit landmark since the 70's. Tearing it down would be like tearing down the Empire State building!!!!!! Leave it standing, and keep making Detroit a beautiful city!!!!! 👍
I do not live in the city of Detroit but I do live in the state of Michigan and I am many other people do not want to see one dollar of our tax dollars go into that building
@michigansoundwizard except it is because his tax dollars will be paying for it too. U think they're gonna just tax people from Detroit? They don't pay their taxes as it is
As a current West Michigan resident but a long time Wayne County resident, I agree. The original decision to build the center was questionable. It has proven to be a commercially poorly executed development, and asking taxpayers to further subsidize it is not justified. If GM and Bedrock want to move forward with this, let them fund it.
you are too smart to live there and pay Detroit income tax..most people with incomes *_are too smart to live there_*__. yes, fellow Michigander here too.. enough w this dump. Let the __*_entire_* city get exactly the just penalty they keep bringing upon themselves with their greed, race baiting, and liberal corruption which have literally been the problems for 6 decades!! The attitude of entitlement is the *_only item_* that that hell-scape keeps "revitalizing".. MANY of us definitely say "NO" they are NOT entitled to another penny from us..
If GM can't afford it on their own, then they don't move. Or, if they own the RenCen, use it as collateral for a loan to move. They should be more concerned with "moving" vehicles. A new location is not going to contribute to higher sales. (I lived in Detroit for over 25 years.)
Detroit has wrongfully torn down some of most historic buildings in history. Hudson’s, old tiger stadium, original Detroit museum of art, billionaires row. Etc…. This is no different. Pathetic
The Ren Cen is an architectural gem to protect not destroy! Once again gm & the city need to get their heads outta their asses and preserve this awesome Detroit monument!
Could be a battle cry. But make it and if it works - fine. If not, then get on with the plan. I’m with you on keeping it - but don’t take years. If there is complaint after complaint - they’ll just take the whole thing down!
I own a condo in Detroit. If the Ren Cen put in residence I’d sell my condo to live in the Ren Cen. It on the river and very accessible to downtown. Also, if you want a lot of indoor walking space in the winter it is there.
I believe that you would. I can’t think of a better place to reside. Beautiful views, close to trails and venues. A People Mover away from the Campus Martinus area - Restaurant, theatre, sports - you name it!
@@UsmanKhan-ty4bg - When the Marriott is packed from events it’s a great vibe. If you have residents taking up half the rooms consistently it’s no longer empty. Plus they would probably but more retail in the storefronts in the ren Cen.
Demolishing parts of this beautiful complex is sacrilege. Los Angeles has a counterpart - albeit much smaller - structure that is the Westin Bonaventure Hotel, completed in the same year. If anyone in the city suggested destroying it, they would be tarred and feathered. The geniuses who want to move blocks away, should consider utilizing the unrented space on the current property.
Downtown Detroit is very literally one of my favorite places on planet earth. I live nearly 3 hours away now and have for over 20 years, but go as often as possible. I've always LOVED RenCen as well as the eclectic collection of amazing architecture all around it. Sadly... I was just there a couple weeks ago and sat alone looking out over the river from the 2nd floor of the Wintergarden then spent a couple hours walking all around. The entire time I spent inside, although very beautifully maintained, I was the only pedestrian in a fully staffed world. Very few businesses among seemingly endless miles of empty floor space and glass. If you have never been inside, you are missing out. Trying to describe it with words is similar to trying to appreciate something like the Grand Canyon by looking at pictures of it. If it helps save the rest, I'm ok with losing 2 towers, but with a heavy heart.
The Renaissance Center was an administrative and business center before General Motors moved in. It wasn’t “the center of the automotive industry” since General Motors didn’t move in until years later after it was built.
Can't do mixed use. The office buildings don't have the correct plumbing, hvac, electrical (drain, waste, venting) for residential. It can only be an office building. Every bathroom with a toilet needs a 3 inch drain pipe and a vent pipe for sewer gases. Obviously bathrooms can share drains and venting but the pipes get thicker and thicker with each additional unit. It's usually cheaper to demolish and rebuild for residential/hotels. Every residential unit needs a 100 amp breaker, gfci electrical in bathrooms/kitchen, and usually (but not always) unit HVAC need an AC/furnace... I would try to make it office only, but get other tenants. The transition of office to hotel is slightly easier but it's still probably cheaper to demolish/rebuild. I would focus on maybe demolishing some of the office building (to lower vacancy, and adding cheap parking lots).
There is also the entire fire/elevator situation which I have no idea how it would work if it were residential or hotel. Conversions are very difficult on anything more than about 3 stories high.
Bingo, hell you could bring in a Hospital to one tower for office spaces, college? I don't understand these politicians are they so stupid sometimes, just repurpose residential, what is wrong with that? I used to live in California moved to Ohio, i cant believe how much they repurpose buildings here and revitalize! Also, one area they pushed in the downtown Dayton, was technology and innovation, small businesses.
When I first heard about demolition plans I thought that it was severely shortsighted. Now that I hear they'd have to spend $1.6 billion to do it, it sounds like a waste of money as well. If they go through with this plan it is an admission that Bedrock and GM don't think the city has the potential for regrowth. To just erase 1.1 million sq. ft. of office space tells me they don't think it will ever be needed. An reducing the hotel capacity is a lovely idea...if you want to make the city less desirable for conventions or other big events. If they did this a few years ago, do you think the NFL still would have come here for the draft last April? Kind of doubt it. Detroit is likely going to get an NHL All Star Game sooner rather than later because of their new arena, Same with the NBA ASG. Those leagues are not going to like a reduction in luxury hotel spaces available when considering the city's bid for a game.
The Silver Dome (Pontiac) & Palace (Auburn Hills) were fun places to watch Michigan sports teams and their highest paid athletes did just fine living in the suburbs.. we all had a blast NOT going thru the ghetto of Detroit for sporting events. After 6 decades of race baiting, corruption, greed and entitlement.... there remains absolutely *_nothing_* desirable about this city. North of 8mile road, we're all sick of paying for it, and it does not take anyone in their right mind more than about a decade or two to realize there is NO potential for growth in a corpse infected with democrat politics!
@@inTruthbyGrace I doubt many, if any pro athletes have lived within Detroit city limits since they started earning 6 or 7 figures a year. But I wasn't talking about home team athletes. I was talking about visiting athletes and their fans. Trust me, I have never been an apologist for the city of Detroit. It's almost impossible to do if you grew up in the burbs like me. Before automatic car door locks were a thing, I used to lock the door as I crossed into the city. But one cannot deny that a lot of work has gone on in the last 20-30 years trying to make things better. Abandoned homes have been demolished at an accelerated rate. Businesses like Bedrock have built their HQ there. Heck, I couldn't believe how fast Joe Louis Arena was demolished in order to build the 25 story Water Square high rise luxury apartment building. And it will soon be joined by a 500 room hotel with a skywalk connection to Cobo Hall. (No I am not calling it Huntington Place, now get off my lawn!) Not to mention the fact that now all 4 major sports teams call downtown home and it's unlikely that will change anytime soon. By the way, did you come down to the NFL draft? Probably not. I did because I'll likely never go to one out of this area. Let me tell you, downtown Detroit is on a whole different plane compared to the rest of the city. It was vibrant. It was relatively clean. It was busy. It had shed enough of the bad press the city has gotten that the event demolished the attendance record for the NFL draft. A total of 775,000 people packed into that tiny slice of downtown over the course of the 3 day event. In fact, the whole downtown and mid town are greatly improved. Take a look at the satellite view in G00g₤e maps at the area bounded by I94 to the north, the Lodge (M10) to the west, Dequindre to the east and the Detroit river to the south. Big ugly project apartments are gone. In their place are nicely kept 2-4 family units that to me look like mid range condos. Look up Brewster Homes, Viewpoint Village, and Mid-town Park Apartments. Go look at those neighborhoods in street view, and if you didn't know any better you'd think you were looking at streets in the suburbs. Streets are clean, no noticeable graffiti or disrepair. Heck on one street the camera caught a lawn service at work. Poor people don't hire lawn crews. This is not the Detroit I learned about when I was growing up. Some of the old city is still around. Anything outside of that area I described earlier is a craps shoot. I've been through areas that are old, but not terrible, and areas I'd never stop the car in. But like I said earlier, the blight is starting to go away. The city has an estimated 24 square miles of vacant land where buildings have been removed. Include land with vacant structures and that number jumps to around 40 square miles. So I would expect that the empty vacant land area number will get a lot closer to the 40 square miles before it starts to fall. Why is the city getting demonstratively better? I don't know for sure. Maybe residents were fed up with the status quo and being the punchline of national jokes? ("Take him to Detroit!" ring a bell?) Maybe a part of it is expectations of a huge increase in trade with Canada once the Gordie Howe bridge opens? Maybe it's people realizing that there is dirt cheap land to be had there? Whatever the cause, I think removing parts of the RenCen are not going to help keep up the progress.
I remember my Parents taking me to Renaissance center shortly after it opened in 1978, got see revolving Restaurant, we did not eat there, I remember stepping off Elevator, into Restaurant feel slight movement. I remember "World of Shops" my parents were getting lost, directions were not right, turned out destinations for shops were not labeled correctly on maps in around building. After leaving got to parking Garage, could not find our car, I noticed every car on parking level was Ford Vehicle, we had wrong floor. I was amazed as a 12 year kid, visiting the Renaissance center.
Ren Cen should be kept. It's become a iconic part of the skyline and is recognized globally. The new Hudson site while will likely be iconic as well it is no where as stunning and far from what was originally proposed.
I always enjoy the craftsmanship you put into these videos! The audio work is flawless and the video editing skills create a masterpiece! So informative and just fun to watch!
I’m 78 and fro Windsor. Hudson’s was THE place to go in Detroit. While the city had so much to offer in the 50’s and 60’s - you didn’t go to Detroit without stopping at Hudsons. The beautiful architecture in and out. The Christmas window displays. The Santa Claus floor and the toys - a young persons dream!!!
Convert them into apartments (affordable, regular and luxury). Demolition should be an absolute last resort; and, if it happens, taxpayer money should not fund that.
EV is not bullsh$t! It is the Future. You do realize the opposition to autos in the early 1900’s was huge! Nobody want a ‘gas’ engine -to noisy and too slow - to many problems into the future. Where to get fixed. Where to get gasoline. How to get from one place to another. EV’s are the future. GET USED TO THAT FACT!
@@gordoncheswick4169EV is bs for many people. Sure it works for half of the people. But won't for us that pull things for jobs or travel with trailers to vacation. EV can't do that. If it works for some great, maybe keep some nice tax incentives; but stop forcing us that it won't work for into it. Just passes us off and makes everything more expensive
@@gordoncheswick4169 Yes it is. In the 1900's they thought flying cars were the future. EV sales growth has declined from 50 to 20%. EV's will stay around, however there are way too many people who hate charging their iPhone to drop 40 - 50K into another device they have to charge repeatedly. It's not for everyone, not even close.
Businesses need to fund their operations through profits not through public funding. Stop paying your top executives ridiculous wages with astronomical bonuses and you would have the money needed to make those capital improvements without stealing from the public. No more corporate subsidies!!! Let them pay their own way.
I'm from out of state , but born in Ann Arbor why would you want to knock down Detriots tallest building trying to revitalize downtown? You people are crazy.
Misinformation. It's a partial demo of ONLY the two smaller towers facing the river. The majority (including the central gotel tower) will continue to stand. Also it would improve pubic access to the RenCen and expand public space.
Destroying those two buildings would make the whole thing look like a lopsided mess. What a stupid thing to do. Making that threat to destroy all of them with one being the tallest building in the city is worse. I'm guessing there is no good choices though and removing those two buildings would be to give river views to people in the hotel whil downsizing the space all to make it economically viable rather than leaving the tallest building in Detroit abandoned.
Her thinking is exactly why GM has struggled trying to make a car let alone finding a direction for the company to follow. No money should be given to this train wreck of a company.
If GM plans to leave the buildings entirely with no public funds, then I say the city should (at least threaten to) outright eminent domain the entire complex. If GM is gonna turn it's back on Detroit like that (and try to save face by saying bs they won't be upholding 20 years from now) then force them into the fire and see how well they like it. The city could likely be able to pull in a developer(s) to help redevelop the complex if needed, but if GM and Blackrock wants to destroy it all then they shouldn't be allowed to keep control over the complex (however that has to happen)
You know when they use eminent domain, they have to pay the owner fair market value right? The city was bankrupt a few years ago, so where will the money come from? Higher taxes.
@@johncompton88 The money is coming from billionaires exploiting Detroit's cheap land and corrupt city government. Raising taxes tends to lower tax revenue, not the reverse (check out the Laffer Curve to help understand why).
Detroit doesn’t have money to fix roads or subdue crime. Where would it get the money to maintain the RenCen for the eternity it would take to get an investor?
I think this is a huge mistake as the Ren Cen is the most iconic building of the city skyline. However, with "waterfront" living being the most desirable, why is the plan to get rid of towers 300 & 400, but keep towers 100 & 200 which are on the Jefferson side?
Every city needs their iconic symbol! If anything is, it’s the Ren Cen! When you see it, you know that it is Detroit! Simply be wise, Restore and repurpose your icon! If you don’t need all of that office space, many people would be very eager for a river view condo, and very happy to live there! Be smart Detroit, look forward and don’t look backward, you don’t need GM anymore, say goodbye and good luck! GM is like an alcoholic asking for another drink, don’t give them any money, they have been absolutely mismanaged for a long time! Call their bluff and demand that they sell it, as is! Take your cities jewel, and polish it, and make it sparkle!
This Amazing Art Design Architecture of solidity, strength , and futurism is so Beautiful they have to tear it down , after all the people don't want such a gorgeous building to be standing around drawing World tourism there to see the city .They have to do everything to stop tourist dollars from flooding into the place .
Marriott owns 25% of the property. Primarily the central tower. Gm doesn't get to just get to demolish that, and the two newer towers to the east are owned by two separate private developers. If gm is threatening to demolish the central tower, it's a bluff.
I watched them build the towers In the 70's.. truly it gave detroits pride. I've watched the new Hudson building being built. Beautiful. Ford rebuilt the train station. Shows a larger commitment. Three tower's won't look the same. Detroit is ever changing. We will adjust.
First video I’ve seen on this page n surely will subscribe now. No bs. No unnecessary words added to try n prolong a video. Like n subscribe duly deserved! God bless!
This is a tough one. If there aren't any companies willing to rent office space in those towers then it's just not viable to keep them open or let them sit vacant and fall into decay. It sits on a beautiful piece of waterfront though so perhaps it would be best to tear down the entire complex and rebuild a new iconic structure that better serves the city and draws people in. The problem is getting and paying for a noteworthy development and not the absolute cheapest plain structures available.
GM actually needed that huge building 20yrs ago when they operated 10 car brands across the globe, but now that they are down to four brands remaining and half the number of cars sold annually, there’s no need for such a huge building. People blame Covid, but I just see GM as being a shell of what it once was. They’re just too broke to be able to maintain that huge nice building they had.
The "city within a city" concept caused the building to be isolated from the actual city of Detroit. It was done to allow suburban dwellers to come into the city and work on an island without having to interact with downtown Detroit. Outside of the impact to the skyline I don't think losing the RenCen would be a huge loss to Detroit. Plenty of other office space that is more well integrated into the city.
That is how it was sold to the workers when GM moved down there. You blow down 75, to the parking garage, go to work, rinse and repeat. People worked there for decades and never ventured past Jefferson.
that was (and still is, to a large extent) Detroit-a city so ruined by its history of racial strife and really bad urban planning that you really only go if you must, and when you do, you get in, do your thing, and get the he77 out asap-eyes on the exit corridors at all times. But with that said, the waste represented by demolishing two towers while building another just down the road is ludicrous.
While the RenCen is "iconic" for Detroit's skyline, I don't think it's an objectively good piece of architecture, and I don't think the city would lose much of value if any part of it went away. That, of course, doesn't mean it's worth the cost to demolish/renovate it, but I just wouldn't keep it around for the sentimental/aesthetic value.
It's not really the growth if you build a new tower and then need to tear down another. If this plan was announced before construction began I'm sure many would have been against it. It's a shame. GM is stupid and wasteful. Bedrock and GM should pay for this whole mess.
If GM was smart it would not make sense to leave a building you already own. They need to leave it alone and NOT tare down perfectly good buildings. I’ve never seen such waste of infrastructure resources and money. People need to stop tearing down perfectly good buildings when they could be revitalized and repurpose and show Detroits BEAUTIFUL history. Taxpayers should also not have to foot the bill for these totally unnecessary waste of money ideas because these corporations are cheap, greedy, and careless. There’s no reason for them to move out of a perfectly good building into a new building and tear down a relatively new and iconic building. Stupidity, corruption, and greed is unfathomable. 😡 you have a struggling City that’s trying to hold onto its legacy and identity and of course GM wants to play they’re Mickey Mouse games pitiful!
So in a small way if you buy Ford and ignore GM you are supporting Detroit, because Ford wants to improve the city and is willing to put in the hard work. GM has no vision, they just want to over pay to get out.
So much history,I'm so proud to say I'm from the Detroit area. These buildings are a landmark, so much so that I have the image tattoed on my right calf with the English "D" in the center with my birth date below. I was born at Mt. Carmel Hospital in 1960. They definitely need to come up with a plan to save these iconic towers
I love the idea of reducing the building by talking out the two towers nearest to the river. Here they are keeping the best part of the complex, the central tower, and making it more prominent. This looks right
@ it’s a classic example of addition-by-subtraction. I’ve seen that building so many times and hated it for being too overbearing… but by carving out some of it, they are able to extract something really good about it.
I've worked in that building several times. It's a very modern, beautiful complex. There's absolutely no reason to move out and it would be absurd to tear it down in any way. GM has only been occupying a portion of the complex for years. If it's still too much space they can simply reduce their footprint there and lease out the extra space. They could still redevelop some of the towers into residential. If GM needs the cash and doesn't want to own the real estate, they can sell it and lease their space back from the new owner. I can't believe "smart people" can't figure this out.
I agree with others that spending public money on private ventures has to end. The opportunity for corruption and political grandstanding is present in every aspect of these plans. Subsidizing luxury apartments and business properties while lower income citizens are struggling to house themselves is clearly not sustainable. Diverting tax money to benefit the wealthy and well connected is the primary reason for our increasing wealth inequality.
the fact this building can be seen for miles away in Canada and a land mark that you were nearing the end of the 401 is great and the fact GM is trying to play games with an icon is sad and tbh GM needs to pay up and help save this building not destroy it and Mayor Duggan's needs to put his foot down on this
Can't Detroit find a alternative use for those buildings? In NY a hospital eventually bought the former headquarters of Readers Digest and created a medical complex utilizing existing buildings and additional buildings builo t on the campus. Personally I was hoping for a College Campus... either way, nothing got demolished. Hey our politicians aren't exactly the "sharpest pencils in the box"
Right, repurpose is the way to go. Hell they are doing it with former Malls, Hospitals are converting them, to turning them into HUGE apartments, we are always talking about the lack of housing, convert the buildings, turn into multiple use. Politicians are just stupid!
It would make sense if most of the buildings in detroit were at more than 50% capacity, but many are sitting at or below 33%. The RenCen looked like a ghost building this week. Tower 200 had 1 floor that ever lit up and you could count the number of offices lit up in the other towers that were lit up on one hand. Yeah, it's a landmark building but so are half of the buildings in Cadillac Square (just stayed there this week) and a bunch of those are sitting empty. The old Wayne County building has been vacant for a decade with a private owner planning redevelopment since 2014. The Reid building is empty save for 2 bars on the bottom floor. A lot of tenants have moved to other buildings that were vacant, cheaper and easier to renovate to their needs...and then there's Southfield - an entire suburb built up with massive commercial office buildings just outside of Detroit proper, also largely vacant. There's just far too much empty space in the area for the demand and the RenCen kinda sucks inside. GM did a lot to make the interior less brutalist and the Wintergarden was a nice addition, but it's a lot of expensive, awkward space nobody wants. Even the retail spaces are low usage and the movie theater moved out a decade ago as well. Politicians dont factor in other than not wanting to spend more taxpayer money to help maintain yet another empty complex.
@94XJ I doubt that GM us saving money by abandoning what they own and paying rent to occupy office space in a building within walking distance from their own properties. "Common sense is not so common" ~ Voltaire
Was in the Ren-Cen many times, computer service in the 70's and 80's. I was always a bit uneasy going to the top floors of the main tower on a really windy day. Swear I could feel, and look outside and down, from the elevator shafts and emergency stair cases, and see the building swaying back and forth. Also, I had this nightmare thought, that I couldn't shake, of a tornado hitting the place while I was in there, and turning those glass towers into a giant blender. Oh, man. I have noticed, over the past some years driving by the GM Tech Center in Warren, that they have built some massive office buildings there, along with equally massive parking structures. It looks to me, like they are slowly consolidating most everything into that space. I worked as a resident tech at the Tech Center for a couple of years in the mid 70's. At that time, it appeared to me to be mostly the Design Staffs, Engineering labs, if I remember a test track, and supporting offices.
The Detroit riverfront is already beautiful. Have you been there lately?? They just need to make some interior renovations to the buildings to fix the screwed up floor plans and open them up a bit to the exterior. Can’t imagine it would cost $1.6 billion though and should not be covered in any amount by public funds. Michigan tax payers are getting tired of supporting these private developments who then don’t make good on their plans. ua-cam.com/video/nCLSgbwCnMk/v-deo.html
Detroit is not done yet. The Riverfront is front and Center I’d Detroit’s revival. The riverfront will extend all the way to the Gordie Howe Bridge on day. That will allow the foot and bike traffic allowed on that hridge to tajpje advantage of BOTH waterfronts!
I personally think it's an architectural masterpiece for its time and era and think it should be not only preserved by expanded to add the extra towers the project is lacking. I.e. more residential towers. If anything Detroit should take its cue as well as its spare driverless metro trains from Toronto and that means building up and as dense as possible in the downtown core not hollowing it out... Even if you have to offer tax breaks or subsidies to do it, though I'd prefer tax breaks over direct cash hand outs since without some renovation the building will fall further down the list of building classes and quality and be worth less and less over time...
If they want to change the skyline of it, you don't need to destroy it, you could recreate the outside of the buildings to rennovating it, making it more modern, drop in residential, we are always hearing about the lack of housing.... HELLO you have a empty building, GO Convert it! What about the harsh winters, there would be plenty of spaces for whatever might be, to allow residents to do whatever. Politicians are just idiots, i live in Ohio and they convert a lot of old warehouses into mix use and they have been very successful at it.
So, here’s the problem… the ren can has office space for 10k but can’t fill more than 2k (20% occupancy). The rest of the office space in the D is at about 30% occupancy. You don’t need more space, you need less. With some of the wealthiest and nicest cities in the USA just north of the D, and plenty of jobs in the suburbs, nobody wants to go to the city, except for those idealistic few who’s delusions of trendiness and grandeur cloud their vision of the D’s reality. The people of the city can’t afford the ren cen for a single day, let alone the eternity it will take to build the city to the point where it could become viable and attract an investor.
There has been a trend in Canada for companies to sell off their office property and enter into long term leases with the buyer. Usually old buildings and part of the deal is that they get major refurbishment the companies didn't want to pay for all up front. There was talk of doing something similar with our local insurance head office. When originally designed 1/3 of the building was designed for storing paper records so the equivalent of two full sides of the office tower has no windows.
in 50 years the great loss of important modern buildings will be regarded as a tragedy, they thought 1800s buildings were trash in the 50s and knocked some real stunners down for personal taste and cheaper buildings, lest we repeat our mistakes?
I can't wait to give them the tax money quick enough. Economics are economics. Detroit really needs this building to stay in the skyline and it has been bleeding money for a while. It's going to take a big move to get it up and running again. The biggest remaining problem would be ensuring that peoppe can actually grt to the island of buildings with getting in a car to cross the road from downtown to the river it sits on.
It's my understanding that the Ren Cen wasn't designed for the riverfront. The original location was in the center of the city over the top of Woodward Avenue south of Grand Circus. Looking at the design you can see that it was meant to be accessed from all four sides. At its current location, you can only access it from one side - Jefferson Ave. Coleman Young, the mayor at the time thought the design was so beautiful that it should be built on the riverfront for everyone to see - hence the design flaw. I found this out while working for JL Hudson in the late seventies - while making a documentary to celebrate the company's 100th Anniversary in 1981. Does anyone else recall this to be true?
*Happy New Year🎉🥳🎊* *I'm favoured only God knows how much I praise Him,* $230k every 4weeks! | now have a big mansion and can now afford anything and also support God's work and the church.
Only God knows how much grateful i am. After so much struggles I now own a new house and my family is happy once again everything is finally falling into place!!
I started pretty low, though, $5000 thereabouts. The return came massive. Joey is in school doing well, telling me of new friends he's meeting in school. Thank you Evelyn Vera, you're a miracle.
Wow...I know her too she is a licensed broker and a FINRA agent she is popular in US and Canada she is really amazing woman with good skills and experience.
I met my wife at the ren center, this would make me very sad. My father also helped build the people mover that runs through it. i hope that it is saved in some capacity.. Lots of memories here going to Youmacon and playing Pokémon Go back in the day
Why in the hell is our government giving money to private companies. This has to stop
Where have you been? The local, state, and federal government, have been giving GM money for decades.
Literally everyone does it. How do you think cities compete for jobs and money. They give good deals to bring them in. Otherwise what would be the point. Just build your factory in Mexico were the cheap labor makes up for no incentives
Thanx Joe & Kammi.
@@Cakebatteredyep, more bad plans for our money.😢
DOGE!!!
As Mi resident and tax payer, i don't care one way or the other about the rencen. The only thing i care about is my taxes should not go towards it or GM. They've been bailed out enough.
They should really call GM’s bluff on the threat to demolish the whole site. I’m sure it would make a wonderful park.
@@alex-kokkinos It's a bluff. Most likely if they don't succeed in public funding, Bedrock has a clause to purchase the property.
@@chimrichalds1422 they were only bailed out because of unions
How can you not care about it? So many jobs lost if it's torn down...
@FyredUpU You do realize that the majority of the office towers at the RenCen are vacant?
My grandpa would say, "If your are going to spend money foolishly, spend your own money.".
that would probably defeat the purpose of embezzlement or whatever secret scheme they failed to reveal.
Your grandpa was not a politician. Obviously.
Trump learned to use others' money. And then go bankrupt 6x
That's not what my grandpa told me. He said, "If you're going to spend money foolishly, make sure it is someone else's money."
@@rockets4kidsit's tax payers money
Apparently GM still stands for Government Motors... how is it that the taxpayers are paying for this?
Hey, we paid for GM to build cars and send jobs and technology to China. We paid for shore up Union pensions. Why not this??
the Government pay check is paid by you.
GM pays a lil bit of money to govt so they spend a butload of public money on GM.
i agree since they took the bailout money
They aren't, the reality is there is no more money without a war, we are about to run out of fumes, brace for impact.
There should not be one cent of taxpayer dollars put into the renovation, and no demo permit should be granted. If GM wants to sell, fine - it can sell for what a buyer will pay. There is no reason to subsidize it.
Downtown condos around the huge lobby area can make this a city within the city and lead to a new future. Barra is just trying to come up with another reason to get taxpayer funds so that she can buyback more shares and get a bonus for herself. That should not be a basis for taxpayer expenditures.
Totally agree that not a single cent of tax dollars should fund this, AND, that GM should be forced to deal with it, but the fact is, nobody will buy that building. It has office space sufficient to house every single office worker in the entire city with room to spare. You can’t run an efficient company with all that extra and unnecessary overhead.
The city couldn’t afford to run the ren cen for a single day, let alone the eternity it will take to build up the city to the point where it could become viable.
There’s no choice but to demo it or to let it rot and become a dangerous eyesore. We just better not get stuck with the bill.
Plenty of potential private apartment owners would buy into a planned condo conversion. With numbers, re-establishing services like power and water would be affordable. Perhaps there is a hidden fault here? Like sinking into the ground?
These buildings cannot be converted to apartments because of the cheap concrete original build that only ran the scantest water system throughout capable of only 1 bathroom on each full floor. The heating and cooling are constantly out, the buildings sway and creak in the slightest winds, and the entire design of the building is huge wasted 30-40' high ceilings that cannot in any way be efficient to heat. The building (which I worked in for years) is a mess and you would spend more "converting" it to a sub-standard condo than just starting over. Poured concrete buildings in the shape of a circle turn out to be a bit of silliness that should never have happened.
ah yes..."the hope of a new future" the ancient echo of the young metropolitan ... howling through the shells of the empty buildings in these apocalyptic cities.... though nostalgic and cute, as soon as y'all start earning a little money you wisely run for the Hills realizing that dreams alone will never redeem a city from the throes of a liberal nightmare like the race baiting and greed which destroyed this city 50y ago.... Does the city still charge its residents income down there? ...lol
If GM ‘owns it’ (I doubt it) then the cost should be theirs to tear it down!
GM should be fined for even asking for a handout. They’ve been bailed out enough.
Why in the actual fuck would we spend money to tear down the city?
because it prevents the price of office space from falling too low for all the other developers to make money, just like thhey bulldozed all the neighborhoods around detroit
Because it's a dated, downtown-killing project that, like so many other mega-developments in the 1970's that are self-contained, aloof-from-the-city, glass monsters, never should have been built in the first place.
@@kevindickey6020rencen isn’t like that. There’s a ton of retail on the ground floor enclosed in an atrium, and the density of this development is so high that it’s single-handedly responsible for much of the foot traffic in that area. It’s also mixed use (with hotels, dining, etc.) so it’s not a dead zone after 5pm. This is definitely one of the best 70s era redevelopment projects.
@@kevindickey6020 Wrong. Those structures and others like them are a symbol of industrial progress, a show of how our country has continued to move forward and grow with demands of industry instead of staying in the stone age!
The ren cen is the coolest place to walk around in for like comic con and other events. It's tragic to lose this building
As a nine year old young boy, my dad, who worked for Clawson Concrete, took me to work with him when the center tower only had 2x4 guardrails on every floor. He took me to one of the top most floors, told me he'd be back in a few minutes and like any young boy would do, I walked to the edge of the bare concrete floor and looked over the edge. The place was massive and amazing. A great memory...
Keep all the buildings. Don’t spend money to destroy buildings. You don’t know what the demand will be in 5-10 years. Why destroy long standing structures when the train station was never demolished. Now it’s a gem. Imagine what the future for the RenCen could be if you focus on preserving it instead of trying to abandon it.
You have to account for the cost of holding on to the unoccupied space. It will cost GM millions a a year to maintain the vacant towers. The city/state should just cover what they are being asked to cover. Calling it a Detroit icon and telling people how important it is to the city whilst not wanting to help with it is a bit silly.
You can’t just keep the building up just because you want it up. Every floor has to be rented out in our of it to stay afloat. There just isn’t demand in Detroit and the longer it stands empty the more costly it becomes.
@@Tectonicia Meanwhile the train station and the book Cadillac remained empty for decades without being demolished, go figure
It’s been empty for a very long time. The problem with the Ren Cen is everybody is north of the river
@@Tectonicia nah, if we can keep a 20 story hollow building from 1920 thats been empty since then for "history" than this can stay
$1.6 billion proposal means $3.2 billion actual cost
This is idiotic. There is no reason for GM to relocate other than idiocy and a desire to burn money. It's even dumber to demolish the iconic buildings instead of renting them out or selling them. The CEO's desire to have a nicer office shouldn't be a reason for GM to waste millions of dollars moving unnecessarily.
Actually, there’s a great reason to get out of there.
If you want to build an outstanding company, you need outstanding people. The outstanding people won’t go down to the D if there are good jobs in the suburbs, where it’s safe, clean, close, and you don’t have a municipal income tax.
GM made one of the worst decisions in its history moving down there in the first place, solely for tax incentives and perceptions.
@@haredr6511 GM is moving to another location blocks away also in downtown. Try again. Also, you should try watching the videos you're commenting on before commenting.
@@2011blueman Actually, you ought to try actually reading comments before posting against them. My comment was that GM, as a failed organization, ought to look back on its reasons for failures, a primary of which is its people. You setup shop where the best people are, not the other way around. The best of the best will not go down there; not to the rencen, not to their office building down the street.
@@haredr6511 lol, not at all what you wrote, and now you're going back and editing your previous comment to attempt to salvage your terrible comment. My comment and this video is about GM moving a block away. If you want to comment about GM moving somewhere else then you should write your own separate comment instead of trying to argue with me about it because that's not what my comment was about or what this video is about.
Let GM pay the whole bill.
Destroying the RenCen is an act of such unparalleled stupidity and shortsightedness... I can't understand why it's even being considered.
Hopefully Mary Barra will get fired and GM will stop wasting money for no reason
It’s like watching Matt Millen all over again.
@@Offthbadan Nice, the Lions incompetent hire and GM hiring incompetent people, both wasting money
She knows how to pay herself at the expense of the company health. Biggest BS CEO ever.
GM has been wasting money for decades. Mary Barra is all about profit and screw the buyer. GM hires flunky engineers that churn out 4th rate products. They will never change.
Not getting fired anytime soon, the company is doing amazing….
-54 days of inventory, so you know they aren't stuffing channels
• #1 in full sized pickups (if you combine Chevy and GMC)
• Average sale price of $53,000, well above industry average
• Chevrolet highest sales since 2019
• Trax sales up 83%, #1 in small SUVs
• Cadillac sales highest since 2016
• Escalade #1 in Large Luxury SUVs (11th year in a row)
• Lyria #1 in midsized EV luxury SUV (I looked it up, this is because Tesla classifies the Model Y 1 size class smaller)
• GMC best sales ever in history
• Sierra and Canyon both had its best sales ever
• Denali sub brand saw its best sales ever
• Buick sales highest since 2021
• GM is #2 in US EV sales
She’s doing a great job.
so basically the new Hudson's building is unnecessary and shouldn’t have been built in the first place
No. Wrong. One way or the other - Gilberypt had a deal with GM - or they would not have done it
@@gordoncheswick4169 Absolutely pathetic Detroit leadership. This is why other large cities are world class and Detroit isn’t. No vision. They just tear down all of their historical and cultural landmarks to the highest bidder.
Pretty much. It was a nice project to hype up Detroit, kind of like the arenas and the casinos.
@@axelfoley1406 Goes along with the fallacy of Detroit's comeback. Lived here my entire life. Downtown has always been nice. Venture out a block or two and its a very different story.
Only in America can we look at these big beautiful, totally up to date buildings, and somehow come up with the idea of just destroying them, as the best way to move forward. Insane.
Beautiful might not be the word I'd use. The complex looks rather gloomy and claustrophobic.
@@Wimboldthat's just your opinion
It’s not totally up to date and they did Satanic sacrifices there.
I’ve spent many special evenings and weekends at this hotel. The view from the lounge on the top floor is stunning, and it’s especially romantic and relaxing with whoever you’re in love with enjoying an evening during a snow storm. Anniversary and birthday dinners are wonderful with its view on display around you. Detroits skyline would be permanently ruined if this was demolished.
Not one dime of tax payer money should be spent on to this foolish plan
Dumb decision by GM
Yep, Mary Bara..
GM doesnt sell record vehicles in N. American any longer, that is Asia!
Even dumber decision continuing to waste money on a complex built for 10,000 employees when they only have roughly 2,000 downtown employees today
@@antoinemoorman5754
The complex was built in 1970s. Back then and before the pandemic. Thousands of people worked downtown and that’s including residence from Canada!
@@antoinemoorman5754
Maybe you are talking about the new tower.
I spent my teenage years running in and out of that building. They have a show room on the ground floor that you can sit inside of all the new GM cars. On the very top of the building there’s a revolving restaurant/ bar formerly Coach Insignia that had the best views in Michigan. You could see 30 miles past Detroit or 30 miles into Canada looking the other way. The best part was the all glass private elevator ride up to the top where the restaurant was. Being young and dumb one day I swiped a wine glass whole at the bar that had their logo and name on it. I still have it to this day sitting in my closet. A little piece of Detroit history, my way to remember such an awesome memory factory for me.
Not to mention there's a very good HAM radio repeater system on top of the RenCen that's owned by the GM amateur radio club. Those repeaters cover well into Ontario Canada.
The Ren Cen is so iconic it’s disappointing to hear they’re leaving but not shocking given everything Mary Barra does is unremarkable
It’s a terrible building for a city. It’s something more fitting for a freeway adjacent office park
Mary Barra is not the person to run GM.
@@cl5619 It's a great building that suffers from lack of skywalks between the towers. Turning 4 towers instead of 2 into apartments, adding another 600 to 800 apartments, would give the residential density needed to support retail in the core. I love traditional architecture, but for the many people who do appreciate modernist architecture, the Ren Cen is a historic structure that could be a functional time capsule into the 22nd century.
I heard Japan will buy ren cen for Toyota 😂
@@Nphenwith a grocery store 😂
Really happy that we've solved the housing crisis and that all that space is unnecessary now 😔
Turning it into apartments really means high end condos. Even the cheapest would be out of the price range for the riff raff.
@@alanmcentee9457 Supply is supply and the only way to lower the overall cost of housing is to add more supply. The richer people can buy those high-end condos, so that they're not taking up space in other apartments that can be more accessible to those who have less money, etc.
General Motors really shouldn't be considered American company anymore. Only 33% of vehicles are made in North America. They lobbed federal government for EV tax credits losing market share fast!!!
Yes. I saw those numbers the other day. And what is Trump going to do - MAKE IT WORSE!!!
@@gordoncheswick4169 You’re just going to have to deal with trump making things better. 30 percent inflation over the last 5 years with Biden.
@@bradd8841hating jimmy carter again 😂
More or less Biden haha
@@bradd8841 : False. 2024 (2.7%), 2023 (4.12%), 2022 (8.00%), 2021 (4.70%), 2020 (1.23%).
There is no way that taxpayers should pay for a rich company to move from a more than functional building then expect everyone else to pay for it
It's 55 year-old plumbing, and electrical systems. Every office is oudated by 20-55 years. It's the taxpayers who don't want to see it demolished, but they also don't want to pay to keep it. So, down it goes. GM built a new headquarters and will demo the old one for cheaper than renovating the Ren Cen. Tax payer money would make up the difference of the renovation but tax payers don't want to pay the difference.
@@kevins.3573so, you’re saying they didn’t know this 50+ years ago and set funds in escrow in anticipation of future, predictable expenses? Color me surprised! Lol. The accountants know how to depreciate assets, but seem incapable of thinking long term. Socialize costs, privatize profits.
Isn't there a funny saying?
Privatize the profits
Socialize the losses?
The Ren Cen holds a lot of memories for me. I live across the Detroit river in Windsor. As a young man we would often ride our bikes to Dieppe park to watch it being built. Heading to Cobo Hall for a concert the Ren Cen is the first thing you see when exiting the Detroit Windsor tunnel. We would often head into the Ren Cen for a few adult beverages before a concert. The lights reflecting off the Ren Cen during the annual fireworks display every summer. My wife and I had dinner in the restaurant atop the center tower when we were courting. Personally think it would be a shame to demolish such an iconic part of Detroit's history.
I’m right there with you!
Was it the Summit restaurant when you went? I went there with my gf at the time, around 1980
same! I love waking up each morning and looking at the Renaissance Center across the river... it would be a crime to destroy such beautiful towers, without trying to renovate them into apatments first...
I'm digging back to my years as a lad on a bike, and wonder how that would be done while crossing an international border.
That's been a iconic Detroit landmark since the 70's. Tearing it down would be like tearing down the Empire State building!!!!!! Leave it standing, and keep making Detroit a beautiful city!!!!! 👍
I do not live in the city of Detroit but I do live in the state of Michigan and I am many other people do not want to see one dollar of our tax dollars go into that building
You’re not from Detroit so your opinion is irrelevant.
@michigansoundwizard except it is because his tax dollars will be paying for it too. U think they're gonna just tax people from Detroit? They don't pay their taxes as it is
As a current West Michigan resident but a long time Wayne County resident, I agree. The original decision to build the center was questionable. It has proven to be a commercially poorly executed development, and asking taxpayers to further subsidize it is not justified. If GM and Bedrock want to move forward with this, let them fund it.
@@michigansoundwizardsmoothe brain opinion
you are too smart to live there and pay Detroit income tax..most people with incomes *_are too smart to live there_*__. yes, fellow Michigander here too.. enough w this dump. Let the __*_entire_* city get exactly the just penalty they keep bringing upon themselves with their greed, race baiting, and liberal corruption which have literally been the problems for 6 decades!! The attitude of entitlement is the *_only item_* that that hell-scape keeps "revitalizing".. MANY of us definitely say "NO" they are NOT entitled to another penny from us..
If GM can't afford it on their own, then they don't move. Or, if they own the RenCen, use it as collateral for a loan to move. They should be more concerned with "moving" vehicles. A new location is not going to contribute to higher sales. (I lived in Detroit for over 25 years.)
Sure they can afford it. They owe us for bailing them out in 2008/ 2009
“If you don’t give us money to save it, we’ll just spend the extra money to get rid of it all”
Cool. That building is an eyesore, and it will open up the river front to more inclusive on a human scale.
I’d call their bluff.
Detroit has wrongfully torn down some of most historic buildings in history. Hudson’s, old tiger stadium, original Detroit museum of art, billionaires row. Etc…. This is no different. Pathetic
The old Tiger Stadium was a wreck.
@ The old tiger stadium should have been preserved for history. And was one of the last original stadiums.
gotta love the corporate greed and corruption. when they replaced joe louis with crappy pizza arena I died inside
The Ren Cen is an architectural gem to protect not destroy! Once again gm & the city need to get their heads outta their asses and preserve this awesome Detroit monument!
Could be a battle cry. But make it and if it works - fine. If not, then get on with the plan. I’m with you on keeping it - but don’t take years. If there is complaint after complaint - they’ll just take the whole thing down!
It’s an eyesore that became a fort unto itself. The roads around it aren’t practical either.
@@gordoncheswick4169with that idiot idea all of Detroit would be grass😂
@@chevy4x466wrong it a Detroit monument
Eyesore, knock it down babyyy!
Detroit better not give gm a single penny for this. Detroit doesn't need the money and the city doesn't have it to give them
I own a condo in Detroit. If the Ren Cen put in residence I’d sell my condo to live in the Ren Cen. It on the river and very accessible to downtown. Also, if you want a lot of indoor walking space in the winter it is there.
It's insanely expensive to convert offices to residential
@ - Yup. But I’m talking about the hotel rooms they are converting in to family units at the ren Cen.
Will you really live there? The eery emptiness of the whole area gives me heebee jeebies.
I believe that you would. I can’t think of a better place to reside. Beautiful views, close to trails and venues. A People Mover away from the Campus Martinus area - Restaurant, theatre, sports - you name it!
@@UsmanKhan-ty4bg - When the Marriott is packed from events it’s a great vibe. If you have residents taking up half the rooms consistently it’s no longer empty. Plus they would probably but more retail in the storefronts in the ren Cen.
Don’t tear down such a iconic building! 🇺🇸 🇨🇦
Wow, what is the bribe the CEO of GM is getting
Solar & Wind powered EV vibrator.
A new facility with more access to the ‘heart’ of the city!
250 million
@@joemachine4714 That should come out of his pocket and go to the rencen. GM owes us the bailout money we paid them.
Demolishing parts of this beautiful complex is sacrilege. Los Angeles has a counterpart - albeit much smaller - structure that is the Westin Bonaventure Hotel, completed in the same year. If anyone in the city suggested destroying it, they would be tarred and feathered. The geniuses who want to move blocks away, should consider utilizing the unrented space on the current property.
Downtown Detroit is very literally one of my favorite places on planet earth. I live nearly 3 hours away now and have for over 20 years, but go as often as possible. I've always LOVED RenCen as well as the eclectic collection of amazing architecture all around it. Sadly... I was just there a couple weeks ago and sat alone looking out over the river from the 2nd floor of the Wintergarden then spent a couple hours walking all around. The entire time I spent inside, although very beautifully maintained, I was the only pedestrian in a fully staffed world. Very few businesses among seemingly endless miles of empty floor space and glass. If you have never been inside, you are missing out. Trying to describe it with words is similar to trying to appreciate something like the Grand Canyon by looking at pictures of it. If it helps save the rest, I'm ok with losing 2 towers, but with a heavy heart.
Checkout downtown Chicago
These are literally the ugliest buildings in the entire city
Cool story bro I almost cried
@@JC-ls4if ... No, they're awesome... Few buildings in the world have such a dominating silhouette that demands your attention.
it would save alot of money to not have a controlled demolition involved in anything and use the perfectly good space
The Renaissance Center was an administrative and business center before General Motors moved in. It wasn’t “the center of the automotive industry” since General Motors didn’t move in until years later after it was built.
There is no reason to tear down such an icon. Make it a mixed-use complex with residential, hotel, office, etc.
White people dont want to live in Detroit thou. Too many white haters there.
Can't do mixed use. The office buildings don't have the correct plumbing, hvac, electrical (drain, waste, venting) for residential. It can only be an office building. Every bathroom with a toilet needs a 3 inch drain pipe and a vent pipe for sewer gases. Obviously bathrooms can share drains and venting but the pipes get thicker and thicker with each additional unit. It's usually cheaper to demolish and rebuild for residential/hotels. Every residential unit needs a 100 amp breaker, gfci electrical in bathrooms/kitchen, and usually (but not always) unit HVAC need an AC/furnace... I would try to make it office only, but get other tenants. The transition of office to hotel is slightly easier but it's still probably cheaper to demolish/rebuild. I would focus on maybe demolishing some of the office building (to lower vacancy, and adding cheap parking lots).
There is also the entire fire/elevator situation which I have no idea how it would work if it were residential or hotel. Conversions are very difficult on anything more than about 3 stories high.
Obviously, you didn't watch the video.
Bingo, hell you could bring in a Hospital to one tower for office spaces, college? I don't understand these politicians are they so stupid sometimes, just repurpose residential, what is wrong with that? I used to live in California moved to Ohio, i cant believe how much they repurpose buildings here and revitalize! Also, one area they pushed in the downtown Dayton, was technology and innovation, small businesses.
Why not turn it into an apartment. Honestly it’s a cool looking space.
The only issue I would have is lack of privacy. All of the buildings are facing one another so you would have to have your blinds down all the time.
When I first heard about demolition plans I thought that it was severely shortsighted. Now that I hear they'd have to spend $1.6 billion to do it, it sounds like a waste of money as well. If they go through with this plan it is an admission that Bedrock and GM don't think the city has the potential for regrowth. To just erase 1.1 million sq. ft. of office space tells me they don't think it will ever be needed. An reducing the hotel capacity is a lovely idea...if you want to make the city less desirable for conventions or other big events. If they did this a few years ago, do you think the NFL still would have come here for the draft last April? Kind of doubt it. Detroit is likely going to get an NHL All Star Game sooner rather than later because of their new arena, Same with the NBA ASG. Those leagues are not going to like a reduction in luxury hotel spaces available when considering the city's bid for a game.
The Silver Dome (Pontiac) & Palace (Auburn Hills) were fun places to watch Michigan sports teams and their highest paid athletes did just fine living in the suburbs.. we all had a blast NOT going thru the ghetto of Detroit for sporting events. After 6 decades of race baiting, corruption, greed and entitlement.... there remains absolutely *_nothing_* desirable about this city. North of 8mile road, we're all sick of paying for it, and it does not take anyone in their right mind more than about a decade or two to realize there is NO potential for growth in a corpse infected with democrat politics!
You know - the Ford HQ Dearborn must be really tight! Com’on Detroit City Counsel - make a deal to move them here!
@@inTruthbyGraceif your racist stay north of 8mile😂😂😂😂😂
@@gordoncheswick4169to late Toyota is buying ren cen😂
@@inTruthbyGrace I doubt many, if any pro athletes have lived within Detroit city limits since they started earning 6 or 7 figures a year. But I wasn't talking about home team athletes. I was talking about visiting athletes and their fans.
Trust me, I have never been an apologist for the city of Detroit. It's almost impossible to do if you grew up in the burbs like me. Before automatic car door locks were a thing, I used to lock the door as I crossed into the city. But one cannot deny that a lot of work has gone on in the last 20-30 years trying to make things better. Abandoned homes have been demolished at an accelerated rate. Businesses like Bedrock have built their HQ there. Heck, I couldn't believe how fast Joe Louis Arena was demolished in order to build the 25 story Water Square high rise luxury apartment building. And it will soon be joined by a 500 room hotel with a skywalk connection to Cobo Hall. (No I am not calling it Huntington Place, now get off my lawn!) Not to mention the fact that now all 4 major sports teams call downtown home and it's unlikely that will change anytime soon.
By the way, did you come down to the NFL draft? Probably not. I did because I'll likely never go to one out of this area. Let me tell you, downtown Detroit is on a whole different plane compared to the rest of the city. It was vibrant. It was relatively clean. It was busy. It had shed enough of the bad press the city has gotten that the event demolished the attendance record for the NFL draft. A total of 775,000 people packed into that tiny slice of downtown over the course of the 3 day event.
In fact, the whole downtown and mid town are greatly improved. Take a look at the satellite view in G00g₤e maps at the area bounded by I94 to the north, the Lodge (M10) to the west, Dequindre to the east and the Detroit river to the south. Big ugly project apartments are gone. In their place are nicely kept 2-4 family units that to me look like mid range condos. Look up Brewster Homes, Viewpoint Village, and Mid-town Park Apartments. Go look at those neighborhoods in street view, and if you didn't know any better you'd think you were looking at streets in the suburbs. Streets are clean, no noticeable graffiti or disrepair. Heck on one street the camera caught a lawn service at work. Poor people don't hire lawn crews. This is not the Detroit I learned about when I was growing up. Some of the old city is still around. Anything outside of that area I described earlier is a craps shoot. I've been through areas that are old, but not terrible, and areas I'd never stop the car in. But like I said earlier, the blight is starting to go away. The city has an estimated 24 square miles of vacant land where buildings have been removed. Include land with vacant structures and that number jumps to around 40 square miles. So I would expect that the empty vacant land area number will get a lot closer to the 40 square miles before it starts to fall.
Why is the city getting demonstratively better? I don't know for sure. Maybe residents were fed up with the status quo and being the punchline of national jokes? ("Take him to Detroit!" ring a bell?) Maybe a part of it is expectations of a huge increase in trade with Canada once the Gordie Howe bridge opens? Maybe it's people realizing that there is dirt cheap land to be had there? Whatever the cause, I think removing parts of the RenCen are not going to help keep up the progress.
I remember my Parents taking me to Renaissance center shortly after it opened in 1978, got see revolving Restaurant, we did not eat there, I remember stepping off Elevator, into Restaurant feel slight movement.
I remember "World of Shops" my parents were getting lost, directions were not right, turned out destinations for shops were not labeled correctly on maps in around building.
After leaving got to parking Garage, could not find our car, I noticed every car on parking level was Ford Vehicle, we had wrong floor.
I was amazed as a 12 year kid, visiting the Renaissance center.
Ren Cen should be kept. It's become a iconic part of the skyline and is recognized globally. The new Hudson site while will likely be iconic as well it is no where as stunning and far from what was originally proposed.
How dare they ask for public funds! The $250M in public funds is $250M to to go straight into individuals pockets! Oh hell no!
I always enjoy the craftsmanship you put into these videos! The audio work is flawless and the video editing skills create a masterpiece! So informative and just fun to watch!
Ya, they can demolish a perfectly good building but costs of simple cars has tripled or more.
You never mentioned that Hudson’s department store in downtown Detroit was the largest in the world
I’m 78 and fro Windsor. Hudson’s was THE place to go in Detroit. While the city had so much to offer in the 50’s and 60’s - you didn’t go to Detroit without stopping at Hudsons. The beautiful architecture in and out. The Christmas window displays. The Santa Claus floor and the toys - a young persons dream!!!
No reason to tear this down.
Convert them into apartments (affordable, regular and luxury). Demolition should be an absolute last resort; and, if it happens, taxpayer money should not fund that.
That is the last resort. It's too expensive to convert.
Besides, it's just a partial demolition of the two towers.
@@94fleetwood49 That's how they start a whole demolotion - by saying it's only going to be part. Never trust them.
Let GM pay for all this themselves. Them and their EV bullshit.
EV is not bullsh$t! It is the Future. You do realize the opposition to autos in the early 1900’s was huge! Nobody want a ‘gas’ engine -to noisy and too slow - to many problems into the future. Where to get fixed. Where to get gasoline. How to get from one place to another. EV’s are the future. GET USED TO THAT FACT!
@@gordoncheswick4169EV is bs for many people. Sure it works for half of the people. But won't for us that pull things for jobs or travel with trailers to vacation. EV can't do that. If it works for some great, maybe keep some nice tax incentives; but stop forcing us that it won't work for into it. Just passes us off and makes everything more expensive
Let Toyota get the tax deal fck gm😂
@@gordoncheswick4169 Yes it is. In the 1900's they thought flying cars were the future. EV sales growth has declined from 50 to 20%. EV's will stay around, however there are way too many people who hate charging their iPhone to drop 40 - 50K into another device they have to charge repeatedly. It's not for everyone, not even close.
@@gordoncheswick4169 EVs are bullshit. Almost satanic in their purpose.
Businesses need to fund their operations through profits not through public funding. Stop paying your top executives ridiculous wages with astronomical bonuses and you would have the money needed to make those capital improvements without stealing from the public. No more corporate subsidies!!! Let them pay their own way.
Mary Bara, That explains a whole bunch.
I'm from out of state , but born in Ann Arbor why would you want to knock down Detriots tallest building trying to revitalize downtown? You people are crazy.
Misinformation. It's a partial demo of ONLY the two smaller towers facing the river.
The majority (including the central gotel tower) will continue to stand. Also it would improve pubic access to the RenCen and expand public space.
Destroying those two buildings would make the whole thing look like a lopsided mess. What a stupid thing to do. Making that threat to destroy all of them with one being the tallest building in the city is worse. I'm guessing there is no good choices though and removing those two buildings would be to give river views to people in the hotel whil downsizing the space all to make it economically viable rather than leaving the tallest building in Detroit abandoned.
Her thinking is exactly why GM has struggled trying to make a car let alone finding a direction for the company to follow. No money should be given to this train wreck of a company.
If GM plans to leave the buildings entirely with no public funds, then I say the city should (at least threaten to) outright eminent domain the entire complex. If GM is gonna turn it's back on Detroit like that (and try to save face by saying bs they won't be upholding 20 years from now) then force them into the fire and see how well they like it. The city could likely be able to pull in a developer(s) to help redevelop the complex if needed, but if GM and Blackrock wants to destroy it all then they shouldn't be allowed to keep control over the complex (however that has to happen)
You know when they use eminent domain, they have to pay the owner fair market value right? The city was bankrupt a few years ago, so where will the money come from? Higher taxes.
@@johncompton88 The money is coming from billionaires exploiting Detroit's cheap land and corrupt city government. Raising taxes tends to lower tax revenue, not the reverse (check out the Laffer Curve to help understand why).
Detroit doesn’t have money to fix roads or subdue crime. Where would it get the money to maintain the RenCen for the eternity it would take to get an investor?
Detroit can't afford proper equipment for their fire department. How would they afford this?
@haredr6511more resident in ren cen Skippy with a new casino dummy 😂
Nearly every building in downtown Detroit is literally historical
I think this is a huge mistake as the Ren Cen is the most iconic building of the city skyline.
However, with "waterfront" living being the most desirable, why is the plan to get rid of towers 300 & 400, but keep towers 100 & 200 which are on the Jefferson side?
New shiny is always nice.❤😂🎉
I think a better idea would be to keep the buildings and repurpose them into luxury apartments
How about affordable, this is a perfect opportunity. But they won't do that. They will screw the taxpayers over and tair it down.
Not enough people would move there especially if theyre expensive. How many people like living in a hotel style environment?
@tabbott429 alot of people live in high rise apartments or condos. People are moving to downtown Detroit. The prices would be the issue.
Agreed!
@@tabbott429ask people in new York skippy😂😂😂
Every city needs their iconic symbol! If anything is, it’s the Ren Cen! When you see it, you know that it is Detroit! Simply be wise,
Restore and repurpose your icon!
If you don’t need all of that office space, many people would be very eager for a river view condo,
and very happy to live there!
Be smart Detroit, look forward and don’t look backward, you don’t need GM anymore, say goodbye and good luck!
GM is like an alcoholic asking for another drink, don’t give them any money, they have been absolutely
mismanaged for a long time! Call
their bluff and demand that they sell it, as is! Take your cities jewel,
and polish it, and make it sparkle!
Wow, I'm not even a Michigan taxpayer and this makes my blood boil.
This Amazing Art Design Architecture of solidity, strength , and futurism is so Beautiful they have to tear it down , after all the people don't want such a gorgeous building to be standing around drawing World tourism there to see the city .They have to do everything to stop tourist dollars from flooding into the place .
It's almost 50 years old and still looks very cosmopolitan, like it was designed and built a few years ago.
It's only a partial demo of two towers. The majority of the RenCen, especially the iconic central tower will still be standing.
Marriott owns 25% of the property. Primarily the central tower. Gm doesn't get to just get to demolish that, and the two newer towers to the east are owned by two separate private developers.
If gm is threatening to demolish the central tower, it's a bluff.
I watched them build the towers
In the 70's.. truly it gave detroits pride. I've watched the new Hudson building being built.
Beautiful. Ford rebuilt the train station. Shows a larger commitment.
Three tower's won't look the same. Detroit is ever changing.
We will adjust.
First video I’ve seen on this page n surely will subscribe now. No bs. No unnecessary words added to try n prolong a video. Like n subscribe duly deserved! God bless!
This is a tough one. If there aren't any companies willing to rent office space in those towers then it's just not viable to keep them open or let them sit vacant and fall into decay. It sits on a beautiful piece of waterfront though so perhaps it would be best to tear down the entire complex and rebuild a new iconic structure that better serves the city and draws people in. The problem is getting and paying for a noteworthy development and not the absolute cheapest plain structures available.
So... anyone else reminded of Delta City from ROBOCOP?
They keep focusing on the center of Detroit like it's only 3 blocks focus on the outskirts where all the abandoned houses and buildings are
GM actually needed that huge building 20yrs ago when they operated 10 car brands across the globe, but now that they are down to four brands remaining and half the number of cars sold annually, there’s no need for such a huge building. People blame Covid, but I just see GM as being a shell of what it once was. They’re just too broke to be able to maintain that huge nice building they had.
NO GOVERNMENT MONEY FOR GM!!!!!
The "city within a city" concept caused the building to be isolated from the actual city of Detroit. It was done to allow suburban dwellers to come into the city and work on an island without having to interact with downtown Detroit. Outside of the impact to the skyline I don't think losing the RenCen would be a huge loss to Detroit. Plenty of other office space that is more well integrated into the city.
That is how it was sold to the workers when GM moved down there.
You blow down 75, to the parking garage, go to work, rinse and repeat.
People worked there for decades and never ventured past Jefferson.
that was (and still is, to a large extent) Detroit-a city so ruined by its history of racial strife and really bad urban planning that you really only go if you must, and when you do, you get in, do your thing, and get the he77 out asap-eyes on the exit corridors at all times.
But with that said, the waste represented by demolishing two towers while building another just down the road is ludicrous.
You're wrong.
While the RenCen is "iconic" for Detroit's skyline, I don't think it's an objectively good piece of architecture, and I don't think the city would lose much of value if any part of it went away. That, of course, doesn't mean it's worth the cost to demolish/renovate it, but I just wouldn't keep it around for the sentimental/aesthetic value.
You are incorrect!!!
It's not really the growth if you build a new tower and then need to tear down another. If this plan was announced before construction began I'm sure many would have been against it. It's a shame. GM is stupid and wasteful. Bedrock and GM should pay for this whole mess.
They ARE NOT building another. They are renovating the back towers and hotel and taking down the front two
That 1.6 Billion can be spent on turning it into affordable housing
Stop it 😂
Affordable to who though?
That really makes me sad, that is such a beautiful building, the architecture inside is so cool. Lot of memories there
If GM was smart it would not make sense to leave a building you already own. They need to leave it alone and NOT tare down perfectly good buildings. I’ve never seen such waste of infrastructure resources and money. People need to stop tearing down perfectly good buildings when they could be revitalized and repurpose and show Detroits BEAUTIFUL history. Taxpayers should also not have to foot the bill for these totally unnecessary waste of money ideas because these corporations are cheap, greedy, and careless. There’s no reason for them to move out of a perfectly good building into a new building and tear down a relatively new and iconic building. Stupidity, corruption, and greed is unfathomable. 😡 you have a struggling City that’s trying to hold onto its legacy and identity and of course GM wants to play they’re Mickey Mouse games pitiful!
So in a small way if you buy Ford and ignore GM you are supporting Detroit, because Ford wants to improve the city and is willing to put in the hard work. GM has no vision, they just want to over pay to get out.
@@Ken_StauderFord was the original owner that built the RenCen and "got out." Sold the RenCen to GM.
So much history,I'm so proud to say I'm from the Detroit area. These buildings are a landmark, so much so that I have the image tattoed on my right calf with the English "D" in the center with my birth date below. I was born at Mt. Carmel Hospital in 1960. They definitely need to come up with a plan to save these iconic towers
Considering how many beautiful buildings in Detroit that have been lost over the years, I'm okay if this one goes
I love the idea of reducing the building by talking out the two towers nearest to the river.
Here they are keeping the best part of the complex, the central tower, and making it more prominent. This looks right
Finally someone who understands the plan. Seems many on here are somehow thinking the whole RenCen is being town down...😆
@ it’s a classic example of addition-by-subtraction. I’ve seen that building so many times and hated it for being too overbearing…
but by carving out some of it, they are able to extract something really good about it.
I've worked in that building several times. It's a very modern, beautiful complex. There's absolutely no reason to move out and it would be absurd to tear it down in any way. GM has only been occupying a portion of the complex for years. If it's still too much space they can simply reduce their footprint there and lease out the extra space. They could still redevelop some of the towers into residential. If GM needs the cash and doesn't want to own the real estate, they can sell it and lease their space back from the new owner. I can't believe "smart people" can't figure this out.
I agree with others that spending public money on private ventures has to end. The opportunity for corruption and political grandstanding is present in every aspect of these plans. Subsidizing luxury apartments and business properties while lower income citizens are struggling to house themselves is clearly not sustainable. Diverting tax money to benefit the wealthy and well connected is the primary reason for our increasing wealth inequality.
Thanks for explaining in a short video. 😀
Detroit is circling the drain........why piss away money there?
Excellent job giving objective review of the facts.
Mary Bara is about the dumbest CEO in GM history.
IS
Agreed!!!
the fact this building can be seen for miles away in Canada and a land mark that you were nearing the end of the 401 is great and the fact GM is trying to play games with an icon is sad and tbh GM needs to pay up and help save this building not destroy it and Mayor Duggan's needs to put his foot down on this
Can't Detroit find a alternative use for those buildings?
In NY a hospital eventually bought the former headquarters of Readers Digest and created a medical complex utilizing existing buildings and additional buildings builo t on the campus.
Personally I was hoping for a College Campus... either way, nothing got demolished.
Hey our politicians aren't exactly the "sharpest pencils in the box"
Right, repurpose is the way to go. Hell they are doing it with former Malls, Hospitals are converting them, to turning them into HUGE apartments, we are always talking about the lack of housing, convert the buildings, turn into multiple use. Politicians are just stupid!
It would make sense if most of the buildings in detroit were at more than 50% capacity, but many are sitting at or below 33%. The RenCen looked like a ghost building this week. Tower 200 had 1 floor that ever lit up and you could count the number of offices lit up in the other towers that were lit up on one hand.
Yeah, it's a landmark building but so are half of the buildings in Cadillac Square (just stayed there this week) and a bunch of those are sitting empty. The old Wayne County building has been vacant for a decade with a private owner planning redevelopment since 2014. The Reid building is empty save for 2 bars on the bottom floor. A lot of tenants have moved to other buildings that were vacant, cheaper and easier to renovate to their needs...and then there's Southfield - an entire suburb built up with massive commercial office buildings just outside of Detroit proper, also largely vacant. There's just far too much empty space in the area for the demand and the RenCen kinda sucks inside. GM did a lot to make the interior less brutalist and the Wintergarden was a nice addition, but it's a lot of expensive, awkward space nobody wants. Even the retail spaces are low usage and the movie theater moved out a decade ago as well. Politicians dont factor in other than not wanting to spend more taxpayer money to help maintain yet another empty complex.
It's not the politicians who want to demolish the RenCen, it's the shortsighted corporate execs at GM and Bedrock.
@94XJ I doubt that GM us saving money by abandoning what they own and paying rent to occupy office space in a building within walking distance from their own properties.
"Common sense is not so common" ~ Voltaire
Was in the Ren-Cen many times, computer service in the 70's and 80's. I was always a bit uneasy going to the top floors of the main tower on a really windy day. Swear I could feel, and look outside and down, from the elevator shafts and emergency stair cases, and see the building swaying back and forth. Also, I had this nightmare thought, that I couldn't shake, of a tornado hitting the place while I was in there, and turning those glass towers into a giant blender. Oh, man.
I have noticed, over the past some years driving by the GM Tech Center in Warren, that they have built some massive office buildings there, along with equally massive parking structures. It looks to me, like they are slowly consolidating most everything into that space.
I worked as a resident tech at the Tech Center for a couple of years in the mid 70's. At that time, it appeared to me to be mostly the Design Staffs, Engineering labs, if I remember a test track, and supporting offices.
They need to do something!😮 Chicago..Riverfront area is BEAUTIFUL! I hope Detroit can bring some of that to ur Riverfront!😊
The Detroit riverfront is already beautiful. Have you been there lately?? They just need to make some interior renovations to the buildings to fix the screwed up floor plans and open them up a bit to the exterior. Can’t imagine it would cost $1.6 billion though and should not be covered in any amount by public funds. Michigan tax payers are getting tired of supporting these private developments who then don’t make good on their plans. ua-cam.com/video/nCLSgbwCnMk/v-deo.html
Detroit is not done yet. The Riverfront is front and Center I’d Detroit’s revival. The riverfront will extend all the way to the Gordie Howe Bridge on day. That will allow the foot and bike traffic allowed on that hridge to tajpje advantage of BOTH waterfronts!
@ aww that sounds Great! That’s good to hear, thank u! That’s gonna be a great investment for the city of Detroit!😎
Taxpayer shouldn’t have a foot a single cent for any of this. Ever. In any city.
I personally think it's an architectural masterpiece for its time and era and think it should be not only preserved by expanded to add the extra towers the project is lacking. I.e. more residential towers. If anything Detroit should take its cue as well as its spare driverless metro trains from Toronto and that means building up and as dense as possible in the downtown core not hollowing it out... Even if you have to offer tax breaks or subsidies to do it, though I'd prefer tax breaks over direct cash hand outs since without some renovation the building will fall further down the list of building classes and quality and be worth less and less over time...
If they want to change the skyline of it, you don't need to destroy it, you could recreate the outside of the buildings to rennovating it, making it more modern, drop in residential, we are always hearing about the lack of housing.... HELLO you have a empty building, GO Convert it! What about the harsh winters, there would be plenty of spaces for whatever might be, to allow residents to do whatever. Politicians are just idiots, i live in Ohio and they convert a lot of old warehouses into mix use and they have been very successful at it.
So, here’s the problem… the ren can has office space for 10k but can’t fill more than 2k (20% occupancy). The rest of the office space in the D is at about 30% occupancy. You don’t need more space, you need less.
With some of the wealthiest and nicest cities in the USA just north of the D, and plenty of jobs in the suburbs, nobody wants to go to the city, except for those idealistic few who’s delusions of trendiness and grandeur cloud their vision of the D’s reality.
The people of the city can’t afford the ren cen for a single day, let alone the eternity it will take to build the city to the point where it could become viable and attract an investor.
There has been a trend in Canada for companies to sell off their office property and enter into long term leases with the buyer. Usually old buildings and part of the deal is that they get major refurbishment the companies didn't want to pay for all up front. There was talk of doing something similar with our local insurance head office. When originally designed 1/3 of the building was designed for storing paper records so the equivalent of two full sides of the office tower has no windows.
in 50 years the great loss of important modern buildings will be regarded as a tragedy, they thought 1800s buildings were trash in the 50s and knocked some real stunners down for personal taste and cheaper buildings, lest we repeat our mistakes?
I can't wait to give them the tax money quick enough.
Economics are economics. Detroit really needs this building to stay in the skyline and it has been bleeding money for a while.
It's going to take a big move to get it up and running again.
The biggest remaining problem would be ensuring that peoppe can actually grt to the island of buildings with getting in a car to cross the road from downtown to the river it sits on.
Given the housing shortage in this country, it shouldn't even be a discussion that viable buildings can be torn down.
Right, these politicians are so stupid.
It's my understanding that the Ren Cen wasn't designed for the riverfront. The original location was in the center of the city over the top of Woodward Avenue south of Grand Circus. Looking at the design you can see that it was meant to be accessed from all four sides. At its current location, you can only access it from one side - Jefferson Ave. Coleman Young, the mayor at the time thought the design was so beautiful that it should be built on the riverfront for everyone to see - hence the design flaw. I found this out while working for JL Hudson in the late seventies - while making a documentary to celebrate the company's 100th Anniversary in 1981. Does anyone else recall this to be true?
*Happy New Year🎉🥳🎊* *I'm favoured only God knows how much I praise Him,* $230k every 4weeks! | now have a big mansion and can now afford anything and also support God's work and the church.
Only God knows how much grateful i am. After so much struggles I now own a new house and my family is happy once again everything is finally falling into place!!
Wow that's huge, how do you make that much monthly?.. I have been looking for ways to be successful, please how??
It's Ms. Evelyn Vera doing, she's changed my life.
I started pretty low, though, $5000 thereabouts. The return came massive. Joey is in school doing well, telling me of new friends he's meeting in school. Thank you Evelyn Vera, you're a miracle.
Wow...I know her too she is a licensed broker and a FINRA agent she is popular in
US and Canada she is really amazing woman with good skills and experience.
I spent a bunch of days at a convention in these buildings and they were so awkward. Just hated my experience in there.
I met my wife at the ren center, this would make me very sad. My father also helped build the people mover that runs through it. i hope that it is saved in some capacity.. Lots of memories here going to Youmacon and playing Pokémon Go back in the day
I feel you. I proposed to my wife there. We keep wall art of the RenCen in our living room as a reminder of that moment. This is sad news.
I've never been there but I recognize the buildings from Detroit: Become Human - so I hope they stay
GM should just leave Detroit...let Detroit and its woke politics "resurrect" itself... somethings never change with these liberal holes.
Great video short and informative 👍