LINK TO PART ONE: ua-cam.com/video/lktluZgEAvA/v-deo.html If you would like to know more about the Olympic-Titanic switch story and the evidence against it, I highly recommend this book! 'Titanic or Olympic; Which Ship Sank?' by Steve Hall, Bruce Beveridge, Scott Andrews, Daniel Klistorner and Art Braunschweiger www.amazon.com.au/Titanic-Olympic-STEVE-HALL/dp/0752461583
thanks to you and any one else in your team mike brady, you consistently put out some of the highest quality educational content out there on youtube. Your work is greatly appreciated and together we all get inspired by the result.
I watch a complete conspiracy documentary on the switch theory, i don't know if I remember correctly but the only thing I've seen that proved the entire theory wrong were the propellors and the numbers on them, I recall them showing the numbers 401 on the propellors which would have been Titanic's props.... But I could have sworn Olympic took Titanic's props after the accident with the Hawke
Thank you for putting so much effort and so much care into dispelling these God awful theories and educating people on these magnificent ships. Those of us who truly appreciate these ships appreciate you as well.
Anyone who thinks tens of thousands of people could be threatened and/or bribed into keeping a secret this big has never managed a project. Keeping four people on task and quiet is damn near impossible, nevermind thirty thousand.
@@HyperVegitoDBZ You must be from a different timeline. In ours, Harambe was killed, the moon landing was in 1969, and 2020 was rife with noncompliance and controversy with a side order of a Summer of Love that half the country called out for being based in bullshit.
The frustration has always been that no matter how much hard fact you throw at people, they still refute the evidence. Some cite Gardners book, some the intentionally misleading documentary but more alarmingly most can’t offer a reason why they believe it. This video has needed to be out there for decades! Great watch.
The conspiracy which I find more convincing and plausible is the one connected to Nikola Tesla and the United States Federal Reserve. John Jacob Astor and Isador Straus were both a) the last remaining backers of Tesla's research after he announced his intention to make energy free for the world and b) the last staunch opponents against the imposition of a central bank; aka the Federal Reserve. As to the latter, The Creature from Jekyll Island would stand you in good stead for understanding just how much opposition there was to a central bank and the abject corruption by the European banking cartels and American industrial robber barons against the Federal Reserve Act, passed in closed congress December 23, 1913, without proper ratification and while the majority of the legislative body was on a Christmas recess. The story goes that JP Morgan bought the White Star line out of bankruptcy and acquired the USS Californian, rolling it under the same umbrella (that or Californian had previously been acquired by White Star, I forget). Morgan was a bastard. Not only was he instrumental in sabotaging Tesla and ensuring that he would never get financial backing for his experiments again from anyone, he ruined the man's reputation, with Tesla later dying in poverty only to have all of his research stolen and disappeared from humanity forever. But he was also a key orchestrator of the unconstitutional and much objected-to Federal Reserve Act, and definitely was not above getting rid of his opponents by any means necessary. Morgan was scheduled for passage on Titanic's maiden voyage only to cancel suddenly just days before, citing illness. He was spotted, however, frolicking on the French Riviera with his mistress. Other robber barons reportedly were also scheduled for passage only to cancel suddenly as well. Meanwhile, the USS Californian departed for the north Atlantic empty and passengerless, but equipped with enough food, blankets, and life jackets for roughly 1200 people. Then, although it was near enough to Titanic to save almost everyone, its wireless operator "got offended at being told by Bride to shut it" and closed down. In the ensuing trial, none of the Californian's crew understood what emergency flares meant at sea. Much chicanery ensued at that trial among the crew, with rumors of crewmen being told to keep quiet and threatened in a variety of ways. Meanwhile, Strauss and Astor were among the casualties. I don't know exactly how Morgan and his cronies could plan the exact iceberg and the other details of the tragedy... unless it was not the iceberg that took them down... or unless they just made it more likely by orchestrating things like the last-minute swap of the lookouts and disappearance of the keys to the binocular cabinet. Correlation does not equal causation. But Morgan and the other banking cartels and robber barons were very, VERY motivated to stop Tesla, and to make sure they got their central bank. And they did both.
My maternal grandfather hated Harland & Wolf, he had good reason to. After losing his lower leg at the Somme, he returned to Belfast and because he still had the knee-joint his mobility was relatively good. In fact only those who knew him were aware of his disability. He found work in the Yard in 1918 as a stager (they were the men who erected the scaffolding upon which the riveters and others worked), however when the management found out about his missing leg he was sacked. There were many other disgruntled former workers who would have been whistle-blowers without regard to the consequences. In 1912 Ireland was in the midst of the "Home-rule crisis" and many Roman catholic workers were forced to leave the Yard and this con-man author (I use the term loosely) expects us to believe that they all remained silent? Bollocks.
I think you can call him an author in the strictest sense of the word.... His work is purely fictional, but he was an author :/ I just wish he had been able to see himself as a writer of fictional stories.
Most of the myths about Titanic and the sinking were pure inventions of the scandal press at the time to sell papers, and ofc W. R. Hearst and his nasty, vindictive streak. Even then there was that author, conspiracists today claim predicted the sinking, coz he wrote a book about it years earlier, ignoring that the only thing in common between his book and the sinking was, that a huge ship struck an iceberg and sank. But after the sinking he and his publisher immidiately saw a chance to make money off it, so he rewrote the book based on the Titanic, they changed the title, and then they published it as a reprint, claiming it to have predicted it all. Nothing but filthy grifters. And unfortunately, there are still loads of such grifters today, both in book form and here on UA-cam. Why bother with facts, when u can get a lot of clicks/sell a lot of books with a sensationalist conspiracy "proven". I suspect the switch conspiracy is among them. There are a few true believers among the promotors of various conspiracies, who are just blinkered, but they are few and far between. Grifters are a dime a dozen.
If the switch theory is false how did that book EVER get published? .. Even with a lack of the information we know today. someone's would've gone out on a limb to publish the riddle of the titanic....
@@stuartd9741 Unscrupulous publishers are in the business of making money, if a book will sell they will print it regardless of the untruths contained therein. Von Daniken's "Chariots of the gods" is a well known example from the same era. Not everything you read is genuine, try critical thinking, it can save you a lot of embarrassment.
One of Gardiner's claims is that they had 15,000 workers to pull off the switch in such a short span of time. This fails on inspection because the Olympic-class ships weren't the only vessels being built during this time. Other companies, as well as other White Star Line ships were being built, modified, overhauled, repaired, ect. Pulling all those men off those other projects would've raised a lot of eyebrows as those competitor companies would've been asking why their paid for work wasn't getting done for 6-7 weeks!
When we have people like you deliberately telling lies , that can only mean one thing IF THERE WAS NO PLOT TO SWAP THE SHIPS THEN THERE WOULD BE NO DELIBERATE LIES Gardner never stated they used 15,000 workers to swap the ships. As the management stated, he had 100 who could do the job for 100 quid each
Thank you Mike for taking the time to disprove the ludicrous story of switching Olympic and Titanic. It is an insult to us Titanic enthusiasts that this story is out there.
And I think that Mike is being generous to Gardiner; he was either deluded in believing his own bullshit or was actively pursuing this fraud for his own benefit.
@@nottmjas Not entirely improbable it's both. At the end of the original book he wrote, he admits that the switch wasn't possible. But once it made money and gullible types actually believed in it, he realized he could make money off this, so he had no incentive to stop.
As a retired merchant mariner and retired marine surveyor I have been waiting for nearly two episodes for you to mention the hull number. Just like a pesky VIN number it would trip up a fraudster. Fire is so much better. Having had a company threaten me and attempting to bribe me, I know that there is a type of person who will flush their career rather than buckle under that sort of pressure. Out of all those thousands of people who could have seen what was going on in plain sight there had to be at least a few hundred who were like me.
Not only that, engineers and crews often know more about their ships than anyone. You mean to say that there wouldn’t be a ships engineer working in olympics engine room in the next 2 decades that didn’t say “wait a minute”. Nor anyone in the crews and yard workers during the ships various refits over her career. Forget the initial switch, as long as “Olympic” stayed afloat, there would be evidence of a switch and more people that would need to be silenced. White star would have been bankrupted by the sheer amount of bribery. And let’s face it, they threaten to fire an experienced mariner for not keeping the secret, I’d be knocking on Cunards door saying “if you give me a job, I’ll give you dirt on your biggest competitor that would put them out of business.”
At the session of the Post Office / Horizon scandal enquiry held two days ago, it emerged that the leading general counsel at the Post Office at the time refused to act unprofessionally and was accused of being “more loyal to her professional conduct requirements and put her integrity as a lawyer above the interests of the business”. Anyone holding membership of a professional institution should be prepared to walk away from a situation where their professional conduct could be bought into question, rather than risk losing their professional qualifications. She did, you did and I hope to God I would as well.
The conspiracy which I find more convincing and plausible is the one connected to Nikola Tesla and the United States Federal Reserve. John Jacob Astor and Isador Straus were both a) the last remaining backers of Tesla's research after he announced his intention to make energy free for the world and b) the last staunch opponents against the imposition of a central bank; aka the Federal Reserve. As to the latter, The Creature from Jekyll Island would stand you in good stead for understanding just how much opposition there was to a central bank and the abject corruption by the European banking cartels and American industrial robber barons against the Federal Reserve Act, passed in closed congress December 23, 1913, without proper ratification and while the majority of the legislative body was on a Christmas recess. The story goes that JP Morgan bought the White Star line out of bankruptcy and acquired the USS Californian, rolling it under the same umbrella (that or Californian had previously been acquired by White Star, I forget). Morgan was a bastard. Not only was he instrumental in sabotaging Tesla and ensuring that he would never get financial backing for his experiments again from anyone, he ruined the man's reputation, with Tesla later dying in poverty only to have all of his research stolen and disappeared from humanity forever. But he was also a key orchestrator of the unconstitutional and much objected-to Federal Reserve Act, and definitely was not above getting rid of his opponents by any means necessary. Morgan was scheduled for passage on Titanic's maiden voyage only to cancel suddenly just days before, citing illness. He was spotted, however, frolicking on the French Riviera with his mistress. Other robber barons reportedly were also scheduled for passage only to cancel suddenly as well. Meanwhile, the USS Californian departed for the north Atlantic empty and passengerless, but equipped with enough food, blankets, and life jackets for roughly 1200 people. Then, although it was near enough to Titanic to save almost everyone, its wireless operator "got offended at being told by Bride to shut it" and closed down. In the ensuing trial, none of the Californian's crew understood what emergency flares meant at sea. Much chicanery ensued at that trial among the crew, with rumors of crewmen being told to keep quiet and threatened in a variety of ways. Meanwhile, Strauss and Astor were among the casualties. I don't know exactly how Morgan and his cronies could plan the exact iceberg and the other details of the tragedy... unless it was not the iceberg that took them down... or unless they just made it more likely by orchestrating things like the last-minute swap of the lookouts and disappearance of the keys to the binocular cabinet. Correlation does not equal causation. But Morgan and the other banking cartels and robber barons were very, VERY motivated to stop Tesla, and to make sure they got their central bank. However they got it done, they succeeded at both.
My Great Grandfather was the Engineer responsible for the installation of Titanic's Parsons Turbine, as well at the return of Olympic to civil use after WWI. He retired back to his home city of Nottingham and he never mentioned this big switch to anyone that I know in the family. Yet he DID speak about Titanic, HMS Belfast and other matters devolving from his career.
It's because he was paid millions to keep it a secret.😮 and paid millions more to launder his money so the millions of dollars would not be out of place. White star line paid everybody body involved totaling 3.5 quadrillion pounds.
You've done the Lord's work here. To me, the lengths this theory went and how far it was taken is utterly despicable. To accuse all those workers, all those passengers, the crew and so forth... It's just amazingly terrible... Any chance you might be able to tell us a more in-depth story of Titanic's first brush with disaster in her near collision with SS New York? I'd love to hear more about that!
@@YinWhoo-zx2sz Yeah everyone has seem to have forgotten about the whole nuclear bomb development in oak ridge TN, nobody knew nothing yet everyone was in on it. Got some gullible statists that will eat up whatever they gov gods tell them.
@YinWhoo-zx2sz It is if you know the facts, examine the wreck and have a basic understanding of 20th century ship building practices. Titanic and Olympic were together for a total of 44 days. For 42 of them Olympic was complete, finished and simply required new hull plating in the damaged area. Titanic on the otherhand was sat in a siding with B-Deck entirely gutted, her engines waiting to be installed as well as the last of her boilers and was waiting for Olympic to leave the Thompson Dry dock so she could be completed. The last 2 days they were together Titanic was complete and so vastly different internally and externally that switching the two liners would require extensive rebuilding to Olympic's superstructure. The switch is completely impossible and also pointless. Olympic's repairs cost £25,000 at a time where they were reporting a profit of £1.7 million and thats after repairing Olympic and paying for a third Olympic class liner. The loss of Titanic broke the company financially and destroyed their reputation with WSL never recovering.
so i have a co-worker who believes that the switch theory is true, but he also believes that they also changed every piece of the ship too make it "look how titanic should look", which really just disproves himself
Lol why would White Star Line even go through the process of switching them AND change their appearances? At that point just patch up Olympic instead of going the extra mile.
Surely if the “switch” theory held any merit, it would just be easier to change the written records and drawings to support it, rather than physically changing parts on ships?
I don’t know, what about all the people that believe we live on a flat earth, or that we never went to the moon? Hair-brained conspiracy theories have always existed, and people believe them
Well the theory it self without knowing all the facts is very intriguing and easy to believe assuming you do no research I was told this theory a few years ago and was so interested to learn more only to find plenty of stuff disproving it but some people never do anything but watch the videos for it not against it
I agree that one of the most awful problems with this theory is that thousands of people who took real pride and ownership in their work are accused of being complicit in the deaths of so many, as well as the trauma of all those who survived. It’s one thing to think up a conspiracy or become invested in one, but to actually commit that to print is horrendous. Because of the scandalous nature of the theory it has become well known by the majority, but those of us with an interest are the few and the facts aren’t as exciting, which is why the theory prevails even now. Another great and informative video by Oceanliner Designs. As ever, I really enjoyed listening to Dr Stephen Payne and the way he describes the relationship and love between architect and their ship. I imagine Andrews was very much the same.
The very idea that a few extra dollars would keep the worker's mouths shut, is just demeaning to their hard work and dedication. Does he honestly think that 20 years later, the workers would say: "Well, I got 5-10 extra pounds 20 years ago to keep my mouth shut, which has long since been spent, so yeah, I'll still honour my promise and keep it a secret, with no further incentive." in the words of my Cockney friends: "Not BLOODY likely!"
Especially when said bribe is to cover up something about the most famous ship in history. And, as such, would be worth a shit load of money to sell to a paper or, later on, radio or TV station.
Yeah the idea that NONE of the thousands of workers involved would ever say something, even on their deathbeds is just patently ridiculous. Even if you think people would have kept quiet after the initial sinking there's no way that no one has a crisis of consciousness and spills the beans.
not to mention that this whole scheme was contingent on their being no loss of life, and you would assume that this is what workers would have been told. "don't worry lads, we're going to sink the ship, but everyone on board will be evacuated first." and then you find out that over 1,500 people have died, included almost 700 crew. the outrage alone would make me sing like a canary.
Think also about the guarantee group, made up entirely of workers from the shipyard itself, knowing that the ship they were sailing on was to be intentionally sunk. It all requires a level of stupidity that is beyond belief.
Yeah Gardner sounds so incredibly naive. I love how Gardner is claiming that no one would dream of blabbing to the media for money or for fame.....while he is literally spending years prattling to the media for both money & fame!
Some people don't realize just how versatile of a material steel is. It can be cut, ground, welded, drilled, riveted, bolted, screwed, etc almost endlessly, with little effect to its structural strength if done right. And if protected from the elements and from forces beyond its design specifications it can last pretty much for ever. A repair job like the one needed by Olympic would have been absolutely trivial for a massive shipyard full of expert steelworkers and specialized equipment.
ha according to you, Someone who was not born at the time and couldn't make a toy paddleboat from an empty matchbox, But you claim to know more about the ship than the engineers who designed ana constructed it
@@expattaffy1954 In my statement i was referring to the new bow added to the Suevic, after it had run aground, and was cut in half to save the stern. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Suevic
@@expattaffy1954 Nice ad-hominem argument you got there, pal. First, when someone was born is completely irrelevant. That has never been an impediment to be knowledgeable about topics related to past times, and if it was, then what would the point of this discussion even be? (let alone of discussing or studying much, much more distant eras). And to top it out, you sprinkle it with some imaginary ignorance/incompetence you attribute to the other person with no basis whatsoever. Let's see if YOU know more about this ship than its engineers since apparently, according to you, that's a requirement to be the holder of the truth.
Again, someone who was not even born at the time, claiming to know more about the construction of the ship than the engineers who designed and built her
Apart from being genuinely crazy, this conspiracy is an affront to Titanic’s builders, crew, victims, and even the survivors of that terrible night. I’m glad it was so comprehensively and utterly debunked by this very well made video.
I'm a 28yo fashionista girl with very little interest in the Titanic & other shipping stuff... However, I Love the way you tell the stories so much I've actually found myself looking forward to your releases. Thank you for your hard work!
Most people: Haha that theory is ridiculous Mike Brady: Let me show you 1,000 reasons this theory is wrong *Fantastic* video Mike! You really knocked it out of the park with this one, your diligence really helped put this ridiculous theory to pasture (and the prologue was an especially fantastic closing statement). Thank you for doing these people justice!
I feel like this will make a few of you smile. I had a history teacher that believes this theory, so given the fact that I became obsessed with Titanic at five years old I decided to do my senior project on disproving this theory. For one hour I stood up in front of her class demolish EVERY SINGLE point she had ever brought up, thankfully the principal was in the room during my presentation so I still passed.
I can understand how it feels to be proud of something you created after putting your heart and soul into it. I recently published a book, and holding a physical copy of it in my hands was enough to bring tears of joy to my eyes. I can imagine that was how Thomas Andrews felt when he saw the Titanic upon her completion.
It pains me that people still believe the switch theory (which is quite an impossibility) and still believe bankers had something to do with the sinking aswell.
Agreed. I was trolled by the producers of one of the conspiracy switching videos on UA-cam several years ago. The evidence I presented against the producers claims was met by me being targeted by 100’s of trolls and the producers. I believe that video no longer exists, but the conspiracy lives on. Sad.
@@PeadarBoc Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that these theories have been disproven multiple times and have several holes in them. I'm just annoyed how anyone could think this tragedy was influenced by anything other than no binoculars, an ice field, and a pitch black night.
Great video. Rational, evidence-based and well presented. Thanks so much for being a voice of reason against the ever growing ranks of conspiracy theorists.
The switch theory has always puzzled me. Olympic was less than a year old by that point, why intentionally sink a perfectly new ship? Let's not forget that this is White Star Line and Harland & Wolff, the same people who salvaged the SS Suevic and built her an entirely new bow after she lost hers during a grounding. Why would they declare Olympic a total loss when they managed to save Suevic (who continued to serve until her scuttling during WWII)? Not to mention that planning a collision with some random iceberg is impossible, how would WSL know an iceberg would be there? It's just not possible. Plus, Andrews, Ismay, etc. would have never agreed. Andrews is not that type of person and Ismay would never agree sinking something he was proud of, all because her sister had a minor incident with Hawke. There are so many holes that I'm surprised that people believe it.
Not to mention that it directly implies they willingly endangered and killed hundreds of other passengers and crew members, who had NOTHING to do with the supposed scheme to dispose of J.P. Morgan's rivals or whatever the theory is. Like even considering the unrestrained and cutthroat capitalism of the era, it's doubtful that they'd accept hundreds of deaths as collateral damage for an assassination of a few men.
To give the theory the least bit of undeserved defence, it at least doesn't claim that Titanic's _actual_ sinking went down as planned. As Mike states in the video, she was supposed to sink in a controlled manner with everybody getting off alive. Hitting an iceberg (or, according to Gardner, the rescue ship) was an accident. That, of course, doesn't change the fact that it's all rubbish regardless. There are so many other reasons to write the switch theory off.
Insurance fraud. If they knew that the cost to repair was significant, they wouldn't have to pay the cost to repair if the ship sunk and got a payout for the value of an undamaged ship.
Fire in the hold, use lifeboats to transfer to a nearby ship. Bye bye ship, everyone lives. The Olympic would have been crippling to repair and insurance deemed the fault to be with white star. Paying for someone else's damage and losing profit as a result. Any further claims would have been reduced compared to a new ship. But this is only what other videos have said. I can't find all of this information and haven't really looked.
Sometimes I wish you weren't so nice. That Robin Gardiner guy definitely deserved harsher words. Thank you for another great video. As always, just when I think I've heard all there is to know about Titanic, you bring to my attention something new.
I know there was one guy on a French liner who simply did it for the hell of it. Always nicely dressed and the life of the party. He was on the 1912 France once when the Chief Purser asked him what cabin he was staying in. The guy gave the Purser a movie star smile, said, "The entire ship is my cabin!" and waltzed down the Grand Staircase to dinner in the 1st Class Dining Saloon.
The problem with conspiracy theorists is that they choose their conclusion first, and then pick facts in and out of context to support it. This is as opposed to realists, who observe the facts and then formulate a conclusion based on the most likely result of those facts.
Conan-Doyle, through Sherlock Holmes, summed this up, when he wrote 'It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Inevitably one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.' However, I would go further. Where Conspiracists & Switchers are concerned, replace 'twist' with 'invent.'
Agree. Not to mention they're the most scared and paranoid people on the planet, seeing threat, danger and corruption everywhere, in every song, movie and design. They're just unable to comprehend the fact sometimes sh*t just happens and there's no bribe, murder or UFO involved.
Facts? what facts do you know. Oh yes, I know one that the conspiracy theory; CIA invented the term in 1967 to disqualify those who questioned the official version of John F Kennedy’s assassination and doubted that his killer, Lee Harvey Oswald, had acted alone.
Would you not admit that the vast majority of people's opinions are based off their emotions? And when I say vast majority I mean like 99% excluding only robotically autistic folk. The average person picks their conclusion first and then fills in the rest with cherrypicked facts and ignorance of any that oppose it, usually without even realising it because it's a subconscious survival mechanism in order to protect your fragile psyche that relies heavily on how you choose to see the world and then dictates your narrative for reality. I also don't know what people mean when they refer to these apparent conspiracy theorists like there's a large demographic of hobbyists who believe in and argue for every single proposed conspiracy theory that's given light. It's a bit of a myth tbh mate, but I think what you mean are the lone nutters who get carried away with ridiculous ones and that's usually an obsessed individual focused on one particular conspiracy theory or multiple that relate to a particular subject. The idea of a conspiracy theory fan club is funny though I must admit lol. However I assume the meme's origins were for the purpose of intentionally discrediting the concept of believing in powerful people planning and plotting methods to maintain power, so it's concerning when you see people casually referring to these supposed "conspiracy theorists" as a demographic because it means it's actually effective unfortunately. We desperately need to emphasise the value of critical thinking in our society
The biggest undertaking would have been convincing thousands of irish shipyard workers to not talk about this happening. Every piece of stationary, written material, and every other item with the name of the ship would have to be swapped. Someone would have found something marked Olympic and said something.
The stationary, written material, had white star on it not the ships name, it was all white star standard issue! As far as convincing thousands of irish shipyard workers to not talk about this happening this is also BS as why you folks who say this think that the man making the door knob, or the fixture or the cabinets etc, has to know that a switch is taking place?
Keeping thousands of Irishmen quite about English dishonesty right when what we now call the Irish revolutionary period was about to kick off. I swear the folks who cooked up this conspiracy are utter m**0ns. Completely oblivious about the implications this switch would have on technological, economical or political level.
A 1st class, passenger, Elizabeth Lindsey Lines, cabin D-28, overheard a conversation between Cptn. Smith and Bruce Ismay in the ship's lounge that went something like this: JBI: So you've not yet lit the last four boilers? EJS: No I don't see the need. JBI: The press already knows of Titanic's sheer size now I want them to marvel at her speed, we must give them something new to print. EJS: Mr. Ismay, I'd like to give them a chance to be fully run in first. Ismay puffs his fat cigar and says, "Of course, I'm just a passenger. I'll leave it to your good officers to decide what's best." Some say this conversation never took place, I, however, firmly believe it did.
'A 1st class, passenger, Elizabeth Lindsey Lines, cabin D-28, overheard a conversation between Cptn. Smith and Bruce Ismay in the ship's lounge that went something like this: JBI: So you've not yet lit the last four boilers?' Mrs. Lines was, doubtless, an honest and accurate witness. To quote the relevant section of her testimony, it went from question 41 onwards :- 41. Are you able to state from your recollection the words that you heard spoken between Mr. Ismay and Captain Smith on that occasion? - We had had a very good run. At first I did not pay any attention to what they were saying, they were simply talking and I was occupied, and then my attention was arrested by hearing the day's run discussed, which I already knew had been a very good one in the preceeding (sic) twenty-four hours, and I heard Mr. Ismay - it was Mr. Ismay who did the talking - I heard him give the length of the run, and I heard him say "Well, we did better to-day than we did yesterday, we made a better run to-day than we did yesterday, we will make a better run to-morrow. Things are working smoothly, the machinery is bearing the test, the boilers are working well". They went on discussing it, and then I heard him make the statement: "We will beat the Olympic and get in to New York on Tuesday." 42. In your last statement, Mrs. Lines, were you giving the substance of the conversation or the exact words which were used? - I heard "We will beat the Olympic and get in to New York on Tuesday" in those words. 43. If there were any particular words spoken that you can remember, I should be glad to hear them. - Those words fixed themselves in my mind: "We will beat the Olympic and get in to New York on Tuesday." 44. Do I understand you to say that the other things that you stated were the general substance of what you heard and not the exact things or words used? - No, I heard those statements. 45. What was said by Mr. Ismay as regards the condition of the performances, of the engines, machinery and boilers? - He said they were doing well, they were bearing the extra pressure. The first day's run had been less, the second day's run had been a little greater. He said "You see they are standing the pressure, everything is going well, the boilers are working well, we can do better to-morrow, we will make a better run to-morrow." There was, in Mrs.Lines' testimony, no reference to lighting ' the last four boilers' at all. Moreover she was adamant about the exact words used. Whatever influence Ismay may or may not have had over Smith, if Mrs.Lines is indeed a credible witness, then no such reference was made. At least, not within the earshot of Mrs.Lines.
@@Dizzy19. Check again friend. Cameron got that scene from the transcripts of the disaster inquiry from NY. Although not reproduced in it's entirety it was a factual event as described by the witness in her testimony. And not only that, under cross examination the withness repeated the same statement over several times.
@@Dizzy19. Quite correct. The snippets of conversation Mrs. Lines heard, or recalled, undoubtedly took place and were probably accurate. They did not, of course, include any reference to increasing speed. The conversation as you describe it, and as it appeared in 'Titanic' was undoubtedly the work of a scriptwriter working to a theme, which was 'Bruce Ismay must be seen to be a dastardly villain' and the alleged conversation is unsupported by any evidence.
@@charliefarley9658 'Cameron got that scene from the transcripts of the disaster inquiry from NY. Although not reproduced in it's entirety it was a factual event as described by the witness in her testimony.' Sorry, but Mrs. Lines did not testify at either 1912 Inquiry. She did, however, provide evidence at the 1913 Limitation of Liability Hearing. She was actually quite specific in her claims, which were that Ismay commented to Smith that Titanic was performing better on her maiden voyage than Olympic had in the previous June.. She did not, however, claim that any reference was made to a speed increase, or that Ismay sought to order Smith to take such action. The concersation in the movie is an invented one.
Having signed the Official Secrets Act as soon as you said that the crew were read it, i knew it was fake. Gardner would have still sold his books if he had said it was fiction.
Exactly! Publish it as a what-if novel; people would have eaten it up, the same way they love anything Titanic-related. Well... maybe. You do have to have some baseline writing ability to make a sellable book. And the plot is objectively ridiculous, something Titanic scholars would immediately point out. Still, as pure fiction it wouldn't matter so much.
One of my favourite quotes from Sir Humphrey in 'Yes Minister': "Oh come now Minister! The Official Secrets Act is not there to protect secrets....it's there to protect officials!"
Just try to explain that telephone booth that mysteriously disappeared just before Titanic hit the iceburg. And Captain Smith was looking for the Doctor on the bridge.
My favorite Titanic conspiracy is the one where everyone in fact survived the sinking because a giant octopus saved the ship. Also there was a rapping dog for some reason.
I imagine Mike was saying to legally cover his ass incase Gardner's estates or whomever tried to sue him for defamation. Or maybe he said what he said because he genuinely likes to believe in the good of people But I am under no such obligation however. I 100% Believe in no uncertain terms that Richard Gardner knew that his theory was bullshit, and didn't care because he could sell some books. It is usually the case with crackpot conspiracies like this. We need look no further than the online political sphere where people like Alex Jones and Ben Shapiro knowingly spread malicious disinformation to make a quick buck irregardless of whom they hurt, all that matters is low-information people will lap up what they spew and do no further research. It's the tried and true method for the conspiracy theory circut
@@amr_12_ Atleast he told the truth in the end, some people died revered as heroes only for their horrific actions to be revealed so at least gardner admitted to lying
Excellent job. What's so depressing is the number of Titanic videos out there that feed on the conspiracy theories for clicks. As you point out, it's not a victimless crime. Bad research (or deliberate ignorance), apart from effecting the dead and their relatives, undermines truth itself.
I have "The Riddle of The Titanic" (German translation) sitting here on the shelf. Must have bought and read it in 1997/98 because I was in military replacement service. Back then 20 year old me found it pretty persuading. Probably it worked so well because internet was in its infancy and to do proper research you would actually have to go to local, British archives, with small German town libraries not offering the right materials and ordering them from far away was an effort. The more internet access I gained and the more sources came up, the fewer the theory worked.
Also, there were many passenger quotes saying about how everything was new and Titanic was bright and freshly painted, while Olympic was almost a year old at that point, so there would have been entirely too many changes to implement onto a year old liner at that point to make it appear new when all of the carpeting, the linoleum, the paint, the extra first class suites on B Deck with private promenades, the deck planking, everything. There were differences between the crew spaces on Olympic and Titanic as well that the crew would've never kept quiet for years and years. Someone would've blown the whistle eventually and others would've joined in time. There's no possible way that EVERYONE would've kept quiet for all time with a story like that. Especially with the riots and wars that were fought between Catholics and Prostestants over the many many years. Someone (if not many surviving shipyard workers) would've spilled the beans to the media.
Mike, Olympic received her two additional forecastle portside portholes in fall 1911 around the same time as Titanic. She didn't receive it during the 1913 refit. They're photos dated January and March 1912 of Olympic. In the January photo, Olympic is seen in Southampton with a 16 portholes count. The March 7th photo shows Olympic in Belfast with a 16 portholes count. We know they're dated in early 1912 because of the additional fan ventilator that was installed above the bridge on the starboard side. The fan ventilator isn't seen in a March 2nd photo but is later seen in a March 6th photo. In the January photo, the fan ventilator isn't seen so we know that photo is dated before March 1912 as in the photo, the 16 portholes count is seen as well. So the additional portholes on Olympic's portside was installed in fall 1911.
I think the extra two portholes were added either just before or during the time Olympic was in Belfast for repairs in March 1912; photos taken of the portside from Victoria park show the extra two, also, the lifeboat gunwhales appear to have been painted brown before the Hawke collision as photos showing the hole you can see the lifeboats gunwhales are now brown. Yes I think the original fitted vent was replaced when Olympic was brought into Beflast, she left on 7th or 8th March with a swan necked type vent which was the same as the one fitted to Titanic.
@@OceanlinerDesigns but bixby the angriest about this the most is that engineers almost all of them stayed behind slowing the water down, while keeping the lighting on as best as they could knowing that they were going to drown and don't forget the band trying to pandemonium too a minimum and the captain, for accepting the fact he made a big mistake and decided to go down with the mistakes
I'm so glad you addressed the "MP" footage - that image completely convinced me of the switch when I first saw that 2012 documentary. Clearly, it was a forgery.
I honestly hate this conspiracy so much because it's an utter insult to Olympic and her legacy. She did so much during her lifetime and was the last sister remaining. I understand the fascination with Titanic but damnit Olympic and Britannic are NOT just footnotes in their doomed sister's story.
Women were some of the most reliable witnesses who lived to tell the tale. For example, in Lifeboat 14, the late Eva Hart, (1905 - 1996) vividly describes the light and silhouette of a ship in the distance, evidently the Californian. She also heavily criticized the lack of lifeboats aboard and Californian's ineptitude, stating that most if not all on board could have been saved but instead had died unnecessary horrible deaths. She also described witnessing the ship breaking in half which was disputed but she was proven absolutely correct after the discovery of the wreck site by Robert Ballard in 1985.
Bear in mind that Eva Hart was only seven years old at the time of the sinking. Her recollections might well have been influenced by things she read or heard later in life.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Even if she was only seven, she would remember her experiences. I remember the experiences I had just before I turned 3 years old too.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Yes, I did bear that in mind. However, Ms Hart was a highly intelligent and articulate woman whose recall and mental faculties were still very much intact into old age. You might be aware that she also stated from the outset that as a seven-year-old, she witnessed the Titanic breaking in half. This occurrence was just a theoretical rumour at the time as it was for many years following the disaster and was not factually established until more than 73 years later, proving there was nothing amiss with Ms Eva Hart's recollection of the event. What are your thoughts on that?
@@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Quite, and well said. A traumatic event in a child's mind is indelibly imprinted for the remainder of their lives. I can vouch for that.
@@barbarajackson7824 I have no particular thoughts on that. I simply stated a fact, which appears to have annoyed you. You might consider how much credence would be given to the unsupported testimony of a seven years old child in a Court of Law, however.
I have never waited in anticipation for part two of a documentary as I have with this one, even though the world knew that the story was b,ll,cos it was still a long wait,well done chaps.
I just learned a new word from this video: "allision". Never knew that was the more accurate word for when the Titanic struck the berg. Huh. The more you know. Cheers, Mike!
All Bruce Ismay was ever guilty of was trying to run a shipping business and having ambitions to put out the finest ocean liners out there. The amount of vicious libel against the man whether it’s switch conspiracies or ridiculous accusations that he ordered Smith to go too fast or refused to fund the SPECIAL STEEL for the Titanic’s hull or whatever else is uncanny.
Low-tensile grade wrought iron hull rivets in freezing waters were just one of the many contributing factors in the loss of 1,500 men, women and children on the ill-fated Titanic. No question about it.
Odd that Olympic, built of the same materials at the same time, experienced no similar problems, wasn't it? Ever considered the possibly that it wasn't faulty materials which sank Titanic, but a bloody great iceberg?
@@alexandros4703 Precisely. Thank you for your support. What you have just accepted is that Titanic was a perfectly seaworthy ship, until she encountered a situation which was completely unexpected and totally beyond the parameters within which she, or Olympic, had been designed. Olympic did not encounter a similar situation, and thus had a long and successful career. I doubt that anyone would accuse Leonard Peskett of any design flaws in Lusitania, because he had not anticipated that she might be torpedoed?
@@alexandros4703 ' Bla, Bla, Bla, you're a scatterbrain, bud, Lusitania this, Olympic the other and Maritunai something else; And yeh, yeh, yeh, if my Aunty had a bollox she would have been my Uncle, etc etc, etc.' Oh dear. Were you intoxicated when you posted that?
Thank you and Mr. Payne for unraveling this persistent conspiracy that has never been founded in fact. I really enjoy your videos and your acute attention to all the facts. Your channel is one of my favorite subscriptions and I always look forward to another new installment. Thank you for your incredible work!
Wonderful subject Mike and thank you for clearing up the Titanic mystery switch. The part where the plan was to deliberately cause an accident with Olympic now Titanic is just ludicrous. Still have a copy of the 12 course menu served in 1st class the night of the fatal accident from an exhibition held in London of the Titanic.
I became a huge Titanic fan when Cameron's movie was released, but even more so when we went to Branson, MO to the museum. Now, I've studied up a lot on everything to do with the ship and these videos are a huge help! Great job as usual Mike!
No matter how many little truthful details are sprinkled into this conspiracy I still can't get myself to believe that the White Star Line would've done this. I said it on part one, and I'll say it again: I really don't think they would damage their reputation to such an extend, risking people's lives, the lives of noteable first class passengers, just for insurance money. Even if they'd planned on getting all the crew off the ship the risk would've been too great. Not to mention there weren't enough lifeboats to pull this off to begin with. Had there been enough lifeboats it probably still wouldn't have been enough to rescue everyone on board considering the speed at which Titanic sank. I honestly can't imagine a company willingly damaging their reputation like that just to cash in on insurance money. Their future would've been quite bleak, even if everyone had survived. It's an intriguing theory, and I commend the writer of the book for coming up with it, but darn, that would've been one heck of a magic trick. Also I really can't imagine the White Star Line to have enough of an influence to keep basically the entirity of Belfast silent even with Harland and Wolff employing about a 5th of the population in its shipyard. I will admit, saying that the conspiracy of the Earth being flat is more believable than the Olympic/Titanic switch might let conspicary theorists go 'oh, so completely possible, then.'
The problem with conspiracies of this kind is that they require ever larger conspiracies to explain the gaps. WSL's competitors (who normally kept a close eye on WSL's goings-on I'm sure) said nothing because the cruise lines were in a conspiracy, too! And the government! But somehow the insurance company was left in the dark, because, uh, the government was in on it, like I said. It's a lot like the moon landing conspiracy; if it didn't happen, how come the Soviet Union didn't - having every incentive in the world to do so - suss that one out? Because larger conspiracy!
Had the water tight compartment bulkheads been higher, Titanic wouldn't have sank. But White Star chose more accommodation space and more deck space over safety.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Amazing how you would know about compromised compartments and not the reason for Bruce Ismay's vilification. Perhaps you are more technically minded?
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Everyone knows that more than four compartments were compromised, the opening comment, which apparently escaped your attention, refers to the height of those compartments. Is that too difficult for you?
@@goinsouth5187 Dyslexia is a genetically inherited condition caused by the compromising of four compartments in the front cerebral cortex due to a chromosomal defect at conception.
@@ukraineunited56 Not at all. I merely posted the reply to give you an opportunity to expand on the comment. A technical mindset is not really needed to know about the Titanic sinking.
From someone who is from Belfast, I used to believe in this dumb theory but it was due to the lack of knowledge, now I am actually really annoyed by it. It takes a massive dump on all the workers and fine builders of this glorious ship. I love that your videos tackle it head on and challenge it. Keep up the fantastic work brother.
@@mikedicenso2778 It was seeing the Titanic at the bottom of ocean with 401 everywhere and seeing the Olympic scrapped with the number 400 on the parts. Plus the amount of workers who would have said something in Belfast Harbour after noticing the ships were being switched.
@@IrishTechnicalThinker The thousands of people and their wives and families who never peeped a word even 50, 60 years later is just not possible. Studies have concluded only about 55% of people can keep a secret.
Hello Mike. I just love your Oceanliner Designs channel so much! And you have taught me so much through your videos! 😍😊 So, I was wondering if you could do a video on Olympic's refits through her career?? It would be so interesting!
Unfortunately there’s lots of people who believe everything they hear without questioning anything. Another great video Mike. Hopefully this can put the ridiculous theory to bed!
The dumbest titanic theory I’ve ever heard was that the iceberg was being pushed by a German U-boat and that this was the REAL reason that WWI happened. It took all of my self control to not mock this person.
If they had a year to make the changes, well, maybe...but six weeks? With a partial work crew? Those men and/or their families would have eventually told the story of this huge race of an undertaking. I just can't see it. Not for all the decades since.
Agreed. I have always described Gardiner's book as a great yarn, a fairly good fictional work, but as a theory does not stand up to the tiniest bit of scrutiny.
My grandparents were old enough to remember the talk, and that it was switched was talked about at the time. Guess who owned Reuters and other news agencies even before Queen Victoria died? Long before the Titanic? The Rothschilds.
Thank you Mr. Brady for this awaited video haha, I particularly have been looking forward to this. both two parts are spectacular, you're analysis and complete coverage over this by far has given me a lot of greater insight and also makes me remember what I have forgotten. Great work!
Thanks Mike @OceanlinerDesigns for another great episode. To Mike's potent takedown of the "switch" theory, I would add yet one more level of absurdity that would be required for this "conspiracy" to be real. The so called original plan to scuttle the ship could only work with complicity from Captain Smith, the other Officers, the Chief Engineer, and a host of others in Titanic's crew. Even assuming Captain Smith went bad, it would not have worked without Wilde, Murdoch, Lightoller, and Bell. Even further assuming these men were all scoundrels, you would be asking them to throw their careers away; it was all but a foregone conclusion that Wilde, Murdoch, and Lightoller would eventually be Captains in the White Star Fleet. A major accident at sea was the only thing that could derail that, as C. H. Lightoller survived to discover.
Had 'Paddy the Pig' really been onboard Titanic, she would have been saved, as they could have used his ears to extend at least two bulkheads as needed!
Why would Ismay (who was certainly a high enough ranking member of the company so he must’ve been involved in any supposed scams) travel on a ship he knew was going to be intentionally sunk?
Not really because one could be done with the right co-ordination, resources and ruthlessness - especially without the internet and instant messaging. Not impossible, just highly improbable. Whereas the flat earth theory is stupid and quite literally impossible.
As absurd as the "fake Moon landings" and Russian Collusion conspiricies. We have no dearth of ridiculous conspiticy theories, it's a part of Human nature. 😅
Flat earth has issues, the most recent that people can't answer with even a tiny degree of understanding is the recent test of rail guns fired from ships to other ship targets at around 130 to 150 miles away. The projectile travels at around 6000 mph, it has no moving parts, so it does not steer itself. But yet it travels over a curve at around 10,000 feet from one ship to another.... How does the projectile achieve this ??
Must say, the switching conspiracies don't interest me in the least because I know it's all complete nonsense. What does interest me are some of the main players associated with the Titanic such as Ismay, Andrews, Carlisle, Pierre, Sanderson, and Smith, and those directly associated with the Titanic's sinking and with the subsequent loss of so many lives.
The way people believe those theories when it's so clearly untrue and doesn't even take that long to do real research is unbelievable. You explained it so simple and clearly that it just isn't possible that the wreck is the Olympic, people who believe the theory are just like those who believe the earth is flat
Another 50 year Naval Architect here. Having started my career as a Shipwright apprentice and worked all the way through the ranks to senior management roles, I feel justified in rejecting Mr. Gardener's "theory" out of hand - his proposals is clearly impossible! I commented on part I and will add a supplemental here. Mr. Gardener has impuned the reputation of many honorable men. For example, it is impossible to accept that the many professional inspectors from the Board of Trade, LLoyds, the owners' representatives and the shipyard's own inspection staff, who would have been required to reproduce thousands of documents in order to cover the fraud, would have had the time and then agreed to risk their honour and careers to comply with such a proposal. Further, Captain Smith and all of his officers must also have been complacent. Not to mention the 15,000 general shipyard workers and others, as you noted. This is a conspiracy theory rivalling the (non) moon landings and the flat Earth! Thank you for taking the time to debunk Mr. Gardener.
G'day Mike, The switching of the two ships is a wonderfully fantasised story & that is where it ends. One minor point is how could H&W along with J.Bruce Ismay stop anyone of the thousands of dock workers from ever saying a single word of such a mammoth task? the answer to that is they couldn't.
It amazes me just how many theories like this get started and grow yet nobody ever seems to think of the simplest logic like "You really think you can convince 3,000 people to keep a secret for life?" Even if they agreed to not expose them, you know 20% would be telling their wives who's then going to talk about it with their lady friends.
@dovetonsturdee7033 I was just giving a general number for the point but that just makes it even more clear. Thank you though for making me aware of the actual number.
The fact that Gardiner believes thousands of men could be cynical enough to commit mass murder and fraud in the way he described, is evidence that he was cynical enough to have imagined the entire thing just to sell his book.
It doesnt take a lot of people to know in any grand conspiracy. Manhattan project is one example. Not saying this is one of these, but there is a lot of interesting info around this event , creation of the federal reserve , WW1. So my mind is open
I mean Gardiner did admit later in life he made it all up, he even says in early versions of his book that the theory isnt possible and that he doubted it happened. He only acted diehard about it because it made him money.
Garnier's ghost is probably being haunted by the ghosts of Captain Smith, Bruce Ismay, Thomas Andrews, and everyone who built the damn ship for calling them liars. Great video, Mike. I love your contents.
If the theory were true, it would mean that Olympic was not too damaged to keep her from getting most of the way across, which seems to mean she was not too terribly damaged, which leaves the theory a bit on the self-defeating side.
Dang it! I have school. And I didnt watched the first part on purpose so I can watch the first and second parts one immediately after the other. My anxiety has no limit.
Great work, sir. I saw the conspiracy film years ago. Yes, it was somewhat compelling, but ultimately it was not convincing. What is convincing, though, is what you've put together here. Thanks for putting the theory to rest, and for all your work in providing us with the facts. Well done.
It sucks that you just say "conspiracy" because those are real, plenty of them are, including some very extreme "crazy" ones that have been legitimately proven. You should keep that separate from these absurd and stupid conspiracy theories.
Once again absolutely fantastic video Mike, I look forward to every one. My question to those that actually still believe in the switch theory, Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny... why bother to switch. Why not just run the Olympic up against an iceberg and let it sink? Seems a hell of a lot simpler than the effort of trying to make one sister look other (switching literally every single 401 numbered part with all of the 400 numbered. Which we know is not the case as numerous parts recovered from the wreck are all numbered 401 and all surviving wood paneling from Olympic are correctly marked 400.)
Also Theoden King in LOTR. G*d, did I LOVE him in those films. He made him my favorite character. My heart STILL swells when he gives his battle speech, and I still cry every time I watch Theoden die.
Scientists concluded that the steel plates used for the ship were subject to being especially brittle when cold and that this brittleness exacerbated the impact damage and hastened the sinking.
The Siemens-Martin formula steel used on Titanic has been tested and the results concluded that in order for it to become brittle one would have to make it colder than the temperature of liquid nitrogen especially at the thickness of plate used on Titanic. The study did however call into question the effects of the rapid heating and cooling of rivets made same formula with it commonly believed that it could effect the known elastic properties of the steel. Then again, none of that really matters when a liner weighing over 52,000 tons collides with an iceberg at 23 knots, none of the vessels of Titanic's era could have survived such a hit, they simply weren't designed for it.
@@Tozzpot500 Yes, I'm sure the steel itself was fine. It was the Rivet heads being ripped off on impact that caused the plates to part. Of course, you are perfectly correct. When the hull of a 52,000-ton hollow mass collides with a jagged solid mass at that speed, the outcome is never going to be good. Which brings us back to the most pertinent question-why was that speed maintained in those conditions?
@@SamanthaDavies1536 (Apologies for the wall of text) In my personal opinion, pressure from Smith's higher-ups to make Titanic's maiden go smoothly while also keeping coal usage as efficient as possible due to the coal strikes in England causing a shortage alongside having Ismay and Andrews aboard led to the decision to maintain her normal cruising speed of 23 knots. We know from records Smith had been asked to keep coal consumption in mind and that Titanic burned coal most efficiently at her cruising speed so that no doubt contributed to his choice to remain at 23 knots despite the warnings. Throw in Ismay's percieved excited nature at how well Titanic was performing as indicated by the testimony of Elizabeth Lines, along with him being Chairman of the WSL no doubt added to the presure felt by Smith at that moment. There was also no doubt a false sense of security as Titanic's course change no doubt led to Smith and the officers believing that they had avoided the worst of the ice field sealed the deal. We know from Smith's record that he was not one to deviate from company protocol and no doubt the choices he made such as the course correction etc led him to think that maintaining 23knots was the correct move. Alas we know that it was not. As to why Murdoch never made the call to reduce speed even by a few knots? Probably same reasons as Smith. Given what they knew and their percieved view of safety from the course correction i can understand why they never reduced speed, same with other liners in the vicinity of the icefield. But thats my own personal view on why and much if it is me inferring i will admit. I think it fits with what we know and the evidence i personally have seen but then again i could be entirely wrong. If i was going to lay the blame on anyone though i personally try not to, it would be WSL upper management for the added pressure, but even then how were any of them to predict such a disaster taking place? A tragedy is a tragedy, while some actions clearly had an effect i don't think any of the people involved could have forseen or predicted such an awful thing to happen, but again, thats my own view, id be interested in hearing yours?
@@Tozzpot500 Great comments, 👍makes a lot of sense, there is little I could add other than to say that I would entirely agree with your very logical assessment of events which in combination resulted in this man-made disaster.
There are contenders. The Soviet N-1 rocket program involved hundreds of thousands of scientists and engineers and military personnel and remained a tight lipped secret for thirty years until the Soviet Union collapsed. Of course, much of the Soviet space program happened behind closed doors, fears of the KGB were enough to keep anybody quiet, and the Soviets wouldn't even announce their space missions until they were considered enough of a success to gloat about for propaganda purposes. I think a more compelling argument is the fact that the Titanic and Olympic were constructed and repaired in full view of the public. Surely, if they were to plan some insurance fraud scheme, the conspirators would have had the good sense to switch the ships under the cover of a gigantic dockyard warehouse or something.
@@WhiteJarrah A lot of what you just said is untrue in the wording you chose. It would be better to use fewer blanket terms. E.g.: plenty of Soviet space failures were shared openly within the community. This hull switch idea is right up there with flat earth, moon landing fake, 9/11 inside job, etc. It sounds passable right up until you learn *anything at all* about the subject(s) in question.
I just cry thinking about all this. A friend of the family was trying to tell me this conspiracy was true and it hurt me to know he and others believe this. You’re so wonderful to discuss the devastating ripple effects to all those that ever touched the Titanic and all their children and grandchildren, etc. tarnishing their names, creating doubt, and accusing them of crimes they can never refute.
Wow! 🤯 This is why I love your channel. The historical cross refrencing is AS seductive as the conspiracy theory itself. Sorry Gardner (not really)! Excellent collaboration and marrying all of the elements to produce a work that is both fascinating and visually inspiring. Steven Payne’s analogy to the flat earth theory literally made me shriek with awe and delight! I’m seriously hoping to see a Mike Brady/Oceanliner Designs and Titanic Honor and Glory collab show up in the nearby future at an indie film festival. This swabby insists! 😊
I think Gardiner would have been better off using this theory as the premise of a fiction novel, rather than try to attach it to the historical Titanic event.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 if I had a braincell for every time my father had given me a good point to why the ships were switched, I would still be in debt 0.5 braincells
As a usual a well researched and presented video, brilliant. I love a good conspiracy but had never even considered the slant on the reputations of all the people who would have to have been involved, a piece o evidence presented in one of the documentaries I’ve seen is that the propeller blades at the bottom of the clean show the number 401 yet they say it had been retro fitted to Olympic after it’s collision as it’s own prop had been damaged. As always when hearing conspiracy theories you are only ever presented with that view and evidence to support it, never a balanced argument..
Its fascinating to me that people think they would stage an accident mid ocean. Believing Conspisocy nonsense requires construct the events backwards rather than thinking about how to achieve the intended goals of said conspircy logically. No sane conspiritor would plan this so *badly*
Been waiting for this, and I LOVED it. You get right to the core of WHY the switch theory would have never been possible, and this all males a lot of sense. I mena, I never believed that crap, even before I really got into the subject of Titanic in depth. It always sounded extremely farfetched and ridiculous...
LINK TO PART ONE: ua-cam.com/video/lktluZgEAvA/v-deo.html
If you would like to know more about the Olympic-Titanic switch story and the evidence against it, I highly recommend this book! 'Titanic or Olympic; Which Ship Sank?' by Steve Hall, Bruce Beveridge, Scott Andrews, Daniel Klistorner and Art Braunschweiger
www.amazon.com.au/Titanic-Olympic-STEVE-HALL/dp/0752461583
Im The 2nd Like
thanks to you and any one else in your team mike brady, you consistently put out some of the highest quality educational content out there on youtube. Your work is greatly appreciated and together we all get inspired by the result.
I watch a complete conspiracy documentary on the switch theory, i don't know if I remember correctly but the only thing I've seen that proved the entire theory wrong were the propellors and the numbers on them, I recall them showing the numbers 401 on the propellors which would have been Titanic's props.... But I could have sworn Olympic took Titanic's props after the accident with the Hawke
Thank you for putting so much effort and so much care into dispelling these God awful theories and educating people on these magnificent ships. Those of us who truly appreciate these ships appreciate you as well.
I love your ww1 hmt Britannic model and I just cant find on any website
Anyone who thinks tens of thousands of people could be threatened and/or bribed into keeping a secret this big has never managed a project. Keeping four people on task and quiet is damn near impossible, nevermind thirty thousand.
2020 disagrees.
@@HyperVegitoDBZ??? In what way does 2020 disagree?
@@HyperVegitoDBZ You must be from a different timeline.
In ours, Harambe was killed, the moon landing was in 1969, and 2020 was rife with noncompliance and controversy with a side order of a Summer of Love that half the country called out for being based in bullshit.
@@HyperVegitoDBZ Aw, it's kind of cute when the trolls are this obvious.
Anyone who thinks tens of thousands of people cant be held outside the loop has never heard about compertmentilaztion and gag orders.
The frustration has always been that no matter how much hard fact you throw at people, they still refute the evidence. Some cite Gardners book, some the intentionally misleading documentary but more alarmingly most can’t offer a reason why they believe it.
This video has needed to be out there for decades! Great watch.
Cults in a nutshell
Or stubborn people having a huge inflated prideful ego cannot take criticism because they're too childish and immature
That's been my experience as well. These people have no idea of the topic under discussion and don't want to actually learn.
The conspiracy which I find more convincing and plausible is the one connected to Nikola Tesla and the United States Federal Reserve. John Jacob Astor and Isador Straus were both a) the last remaining backers of Tesla's research after he announced his intention to make energy free for the world and b) the last staunch opponents against the imposition of a central bank; aka the Federal Reserve.
As to the latter, The Creature from Jekyll Island would stand you in good stead for understanding just how much opposition there was to a central bank and the abject corruption by the European banking cartels and American industrial robber barons against the Federal Reserve Act, passed in closed congress December 23, 1913, without proper ratification and while the majority of the legislative body was on a Christmas recess.
The story goes that JP Morgan bought the White Star line out of bankruptcy and acquired the USS Californian, rolling it under the same umbrella (that or Californian had previously been acquired by White Star, I forget). Morgan was a bastard. Not only was he instrumental in sabotaging Tesla and ensuring that he would never get financial backing for his experiments again from anyone, he ruined the man's reputation, with Tesla later dying in poverty only to have all of his research stolen and disappeared from humanity forever. But he was also a key orchestrator of the unconstitutional and much objected-to Federal Reserve Act, and definitely was not above getting rid of his opponents by any means necessary.
Morgan was scheduled for passage on Titanic's maiden voyage only to cancel suddenly just days before, citing illness. He was spotted, however, frolicking on the French Riviera with his mistress. Other robber barons reportedly were also scheduled for passage only to cancel suddenly as well. Meanwhile, the USS Californian departed for the north Atlantic empty and passengerless, but equipped with enough food, blankets, and life jackets for roughly 1200 people. Then, although it was near enough to Titanic to save almost everyone, its wireless operator "got offended at being told by Bride to shut it" and closed down. In the ensuing trial, none of the Californian's crew understood what emergency flares meant at sea. Much chicanery ensued at that trial among the crew, with rumors of crewmen being told to keep quiet and threatened in a variety of ways.
Meanwhile, Strauss and Astor were among the casualties.
I don't know exactly how Morgan and his cronies could plan the exact iceberg and the other details of the tragedy... unless it was not the iceberg that took them down... or unless they just made it more likely by orchestrating things like the last-minute swap of the lookouts and disappearance of the keys to the binocular cabinet. Correlation does not equal causation. But Morgan and the other banking cartels and robber barons were very, VERY motivated to stop Tesla, and to make sure they got their central bank. And they did both.
My maternal grandfather hated Harland & Wolf, he had good reason to. After losing his lower leg at the Somme, he returned to Belfast and because he still had the knee-joint his mobility was relatively good. In fact only those who knew him were aware of his disability. He found work in the Yard in 1918 as a stager (they were the men who erected the scaffolding upon which the riveters and others worked), however when the management found out about his missing leg he was sacked. There were many other disgruntled former workers who would have been whistle-blowers without regard to the consequences. In 1912 Ireland was in the midst of the "Home-rule crisis" and many Roman catholic workers were forced to leave the Yard and this con-man author (I use the term loosely) expects us to believe that they all remained silent? Bollocks.
I think you can call him an author in the strictest sense of the word.... His work is purely fictional, but he was an author :/ I just wish he had been able to see himself as a writer of fictional stories.
It is indeed sad, that this author chose to sully the names of Andrews and Ismay, as well as many others.
Most of the myths about Titanic and the sinking were pure inventions of the scandal press at the time to sell papers, and ofc W. R. Hearst and his nasty, vindictive streak.
Even then there was that author, conspiracists today claim predicted the sinking, coz he wrote a book about it years earlier, ignoring that the only thing in common between his book and the sinking was, that a huge ship struck an iceberg and sank. But after the sinking he and his publisher immidiately saw a chance to make money off it, so he rewrote the book based on the Titanic, they changed the title, and then they published it as a reprint, claiming it to have predicted it all. Nothing but filthy grifters.
And unfortunately, there are still loads of such grifters today, both in book form and here on UA-cam. Why bother with facts, when u can get a lot of clicks/sell a lot of books with a sensationalist conspiracy "proven". I suspect the switch conspiracy is among them. There are a few true believers among the promotors of various conspiracies, who are just blinkered, but they are few and far between. Grifters are a dime a dozen.
If the switch theory is false how did that book EVER get published?
..
Even with a lack of the information we know today. someone's would've gone out on a limb to publish the riddle of the titanic....
@@stuartd9741 Unscrupulous publishers are in the business of making money, if a book will sell they will print it regardless of the untruths contained therein. Von Daniken's "Chariots of the gods" is a well known example from the same era. Not everything you read is genuine, try critical thinking, it can save you a lot of embarrassment.
One of Gardiner's claims is that they had 15,000 workers to pull off the switch in such a short span of time. This fails on inspection because the Olympic-class ships weren't the only vessels being built during this time. Other companies, as well as other White Star Line ships were being built, modified, overhauled, repaired, ect. Pulling all those men off those other projects would've raised a lot of eyebrows as those competitor companies would've been asking why their paid for work wasn't getting done for 6-7 weeks!
They were busy indeed - which is why Britannic's hull number was 433, not 402.
15,000 potential witnesses.
Is this true?
When we have people like you deliberately telling lies , that can only mean one thing
IF THERE WAS NO PLOT TO SWAP THE SHIPS THEN THERE WOULD BE NO DELIBERATE LIES
Gardner never stated they used 15,000 workers to swap the ships. As the management stated, he had 100 who could do the job for 100 quid each
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Thank you Mike for taking the time to disprove the ludicrous story of switching Olympic and Titanic. It is an insult to us Titanic enthusiasts that this story is out there.
And I think that Mike is being generous to Gardiner; he was either deluded in believing his own bullshit or was actively pursuing this fraud for his own benefit.
@@nottmjas Not entirely improbable it's both. At the end of the original book he wrote, he admits that the switch wasn't possible. But once it made money and gullible types actually believed in it, he realized he could make money off this, so he had no incentive to stop.
It's a shame when the real history is so much more interesting. We don't need nonsense out there diluting the airwaves.
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Amen!!
As a retired merchant mariner and retired marine surveyor I have been waiting for nearly two episodes for you to mention the hull number. Just like a pesky VIN number it would trip up a fraudster. Fire is so much better. Having had a company threaten me and attempting to bribe me, I know that there is a type of person who will flush their career rather than buckle under that sort of pressure. Out of all those thousands of people who could have seen what was going on in plain sight there had to be at least a few hundred who were like me.
Not only that, engineers and crews often know more about their ships than anyone. You mean to say that there wouldn’t be a ships engineer working in olympics engine room in the next 2 decades that didn’t say “wait a minute”. Nor anyone in the crews and yard workers during the ships various refits over her career. Forget the initial switch, as long as “Olympic” stayed afloat, there would be evidence of a switch and more people that would need to be silenced. White star would have been bankrupted by the sheer amount of bribery.
And let’s face it, they threaten to fire an experienced mariner for not keeping the secret, I’d be knocking on Cunards door saying “if you give me a job, I’ll give you dirt on your biggest competitor that would put them out of business.”
At the session of the Post Office / Horizon scandal enquiry held two days ago, it emerged that the leading general counsel at the Post Office at the time refused to act unprofessionally and was accused of being “more loyal to her professional conduct requirements and put her integrity as a lawyer above the interests of the business”.
Anyone holding membership of a professional institution should be prepared to walk away from a situation where their professional conduct could be bought into question, rather than risk losing their professional qualifications. She did, you did and I hope to God I would as well.
The conspiracy which I find more convincing and plausible is the one connected to Nikola Tesla and the United States Federal Reserve. John Jacob Astor and Isador Straus were both a) the last remaining backers of Tesla's research after he announced his intention to make energy free for the world and b) the last staunch opponents against the imposition of a central bank; aka the Federal Reserve.
As to the latter, The Creature from Jekyll Island would stand you in good stead for understanding just how much opposition there was to a central bank and the abject corruption by the European banking cartels and American industrial robber barons against the Federal Reserve Act, passed in closed congress December 23, 1913, without proper ratification and while the majority of the legislative body was on a Christmas recess.
The story goes that JP Morgan bought the White Star line out of bankruptcy and acquired the USS Californian, rolling it under the same umbrella (that or Californian had previously been acquired by White Star, I forget). Morgan was a bastard. Not only was he instrumental in sabotaging Tesla and ensuring that he would never get financial backing for his experiments again from anyone, he ruined the man's reputation, with Tesla later dying in poverty only to have all of his research stolen and disappeared from humanity forever. But he was also a key orchestrator of the unconstitutional and much objected-to Federal Reserve Act, and definitely was not above getting rid of his opponents by any means necessary.
Morgan was scheduled for passage on Titanic's maiden voyage only to cancel suddenly just days before, citing illness. He was spotted, however, frolicking on the French Riviera with his mistress. Other robber barons reportedly were also scheduled for passage only to cancel suddenly as well. Meanwhile, the USS Californian departed for the north Atlantic empty and passengerless, but equipped with enough food, blankets, and life jackets for roughly 1200 people. Then, although it was near enough to Titanic to save almost everyone, its wireless operator "got offended at being told by Bride to shut it" and closed down. In the ensuing trial, none of the Californian's crew understood what emergency flares meant at sea. Much chicanery ensued at that trial among the crew, with rumors of crewmen being told to keep quiet and threatened in a variety of ways.
Meanwhile, Strauss and Astor were among the casualties.
I don't know exactly how Morgan and his cronies could plan the exact iceberg and the other details of the tragedy... unless it was not the iceberg that took them down... or unless they just made it more likely by orchestrating things like the last-minute swap of the lookouts and disappearance of the keys to the binocular cabinet. Correlation does not equal causation. But Morgan and the other banking cartels and robber barons were very, VERY motivated to stop Tesla, and to make sure they got their central bank. However they got it done, they succeeded at both.
My Great Grandfather was the Engineer responsible for the installation of Titanic's Parsons Turbine, as well at the return of Olympic to civil use after WWI.
He retired back to his home city of Nottingham and he never mentioned this big switch to anyone that I know in the family. Yet he DID speak about Titanic, HMS Belfast and other matters devolving from his career.
It's because he was paid millions to keep it a secret.😮 and paid millions more to launder his money so the millions of dollars would not be out of place. White star line paid everybody body involved totaling 3.5 quadrillion pounds.
You've done the Lord's work here. To me, the lengths this theory went and how far it was taken is utterly despicable. To accuse all those workers, all those passengers, the crew and so forth... It's just amazingly terrible...
Any chance you might be able to tell us a more in-depth story of Titanic's first brush with disaster in her near collision with SS New York? I'd love to hear more about that!
The passengers aren't being accused of anything
The Lord's work¿ I didn't hear him not one time glorify Jesus Christ.
Many scandals have come to surface like the British Post Office scandal where employees were silenced. The switch theory isn't implausible.
@@YinWhoo-zx2sz Yeah everyone has seem to have forgotten about the whole nuclear bomb development in oak ridge TN, nobody knew nothing yet everyone was in on it. Got some gullible statists that will eat up whatever they gov gods tell them.
@YinWhoo-zx2sz It is if you know the facts, examine the wreck and have a basic understanding of 20th century ship building practices.
Titanic and Olympic were together for a total of 44 days. For 42 of them Olympic was complete, finished and simply required new hull plating in the damaged area. Titanic on the otherhand was sat in a siding with B-Deck entirely gutted, her engines waiting to be installed as well as the last of her boilers and was waiting for Olympic to leave the Thompson Dry dock so she could be completed.
The last 2 days they were together Titanic was complete and so vastly different internally and externally that switching the two liners would require extensive rebuilding to Olympic's superstructure.
The switch is completely impossible and also pointless. Olympic's repairs cost £25,000 at a time where they were reporting a profit of £1.7 million and thats after repairing Olympic and paying for a third Olympic class liner. The loss of Titanic broke the company financially and destroyed their reputation with WSL never recovering.
so i have a co-worker who believes that the switch theory is true, but he also believes that they also changed every piece of the ship too make it "look how titanic should look", which really just disproves himself
Show them this picture. It's the 'T' on Titanic's nameplate underwater. i.ytimg.com/vi/FbsR2rsgygY/maxresdefault.jpg
Lol
Lol why would White Star Line even go through the process of switching them AND change their appearances? At that point just patch up Olympic instead of going the extra mile.
Dont start a sentence with the word "so".
Surely if the “switch” theory held any merit, it would just be easier to change the written records and drawings to support it, rather than physically changing parts on ships?
I don't know which is wilder: The fact that this theory exists, or the fact that some people actually believe it.
look at all the evidense
I don’t know, what about all the people that believe we live on a flat earth, or that we never went to the moon? Hair-brained conspiracy theories have always existed, and people believe them
Well the theory it self without knowing all the facts is very intriguing and easy to believe assuming you do no research I was told this theory a few years ago and was so interested to learn more only to find plenty of stuff disproving it but some people never do anything but watch the videos for it not against it
Exactly 👍 I Agree.
Conspiracy theorists are wired to believe nonsense and dismiss hard facts.
I love how Mike is leaning fully into Titanic. Dude's got bills to pay. I'm here for every second of his lovely videos.
It's titanic month. He'll be back to his normal content. As much as I love the titanic videos.
It's April. It's Titanic month.
Every April, I rewatch the film, or A Night to Remember or various documentaries about the ship.
instal an ad blocker and you wont see ads.
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I agree that one of the most awful problems with this theory is that thousands of people who took real pride and ownership in their work are accused of being complicit in the deaths of so many, as well as the trauma of all those who survived. It’s one thing to think up a conspiracy or become invested in one, but to actually commit that to print is horrendous. Because of the scandalous nature of the theory it has become well known by the majority, but those of us with an interest are the few and the facts aren’t as exciting, which is why the theory prevails even now.
Another great and informative video by Oceanliner Designs. As ever, I really enjoyed listening to Dr Stephen Payne and the way he describes the relationship and love between architect and their ship. I imagine Andrews was very much the same.
The very idea that a few extra dollars would keep the worker's mouths shut, is just demeaning to their hard work and dedication. Does he honestly think that 20 years later, the workers would say:
"Well, I got 5-10 extra pounds 20 years ago to keep my mouth shut, which has long since been spent, so yeah, I'll still honour my promise and keep it a secret, with no further incentive."
in the words of my Cockney friends: "Not BLOODY likely!"
Especially when said bribe is to cover up something about the most famous ship in history. And, as such, would be worth a shit load of money to sell to a paper or, later on, radio or TV station.
Yeah the idea that NONE of the thousands of workers involved would ever say something, even on their deathbeds is just patently ridiculous. Even if you think people would have kept quiet after the initial sinking there's no way that no one has a crisis of consciousness and spills the beans.
not to mention that this whole scheme was contingent on their being no loss of life, and you would assume that this is what workers would have been told. "don't worry lads, we're going to sink the ship, but everyone on board will be evacuated first." and then you find out that over 1,500 people have died, included almost 700 crew. the outrage alone would make me sing like a canary.
Think also about the guarantee group, made up entirely of workers from the shipyard itself, knowing that the ship they were sailing on was to be intentionally sunk. It all requires a level of stupidity that is beyond belief.
Yeah Gardner sounds so incredibly naive.
I love how Gardner is claiming that no one would dream of blabbing to the media for money or for fame.....while he is literally spending years prattling to the media for both money & fame!
if they could build a whole new bow for a ship, the hole in the side of Olympic would have been an "easy" job for them to repair..
Some people don't realize just how versatile of a material steel is. It can be cut, ground, welded, drilled, riveted, bolted, screwed, etc almost endlessly, with little effect to its structural strength if done right. And if protected from the elements and from forces beyond its design specifications it can last pretty much for ever.
A repair job like the one needed by Olympic would have been absolutely trivial for a massive shipyard full of expert steelworkers and specialized equipment.
ha according to you, Someone who was not born at the time and couldn't make a toy paddleboat from an empty matchbox, But you claim to know more about the ship than the engineers who designed ana constructed it
@@expattaffy1954 In my statement i was referring to the new bow added to the Suevic, after it had run aground, and was cut in half to save the stern. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Suevic
@@expattaffy1954 Nice ad-hominem argument you got there, pal.
First, when someone was born is completely irrelevant. That has never been an impediment to be knowledgeable about topics related to past times, and if it was, then what would the point of this discussion even be? (let alone of discussing or studying much, much more distant eras). And to top it out, you sprinkle it with some imaginary ignorance/incompetence you attribute to the other person with no basis whatsoever.
Let's see if YOU know more about this ship than its engineers since apparently, according to you, that's a requirement to be the holder of the truth.
Again, someone who was not even born at the time, claiming to know more about the construction of the ship than the engineers who designed and built her
Apart from being genuinely crazy, this conspiracy is an affront to Titanic’s builders, crew, victims, and even the survivors of that terrible night.
I’m glad it was so comprehensively and utterly debunked by this very well made video.
I'm a 28yo fashionista girl with very little interest in the Titanic & other shipping stuff... However, I Love the way you tell the stories so much I've actually found myself looking forward to your releases.
Thank you for your hard work!
i have very little interest in what you just said.
@@davidhusband5022 🤣👌
@@davidhusband5022 But is she hot?
(I kid. I kid.)
Most people: Haha that theory is ridiculous
Mike Brady: Let me show you 1,000 reasons this theory is wrong
*Fantastic* video Mike! You really knocked it out of the park with this one, your diligence really helped put this ridiculous theory to pasture (and the prologue was an especially fantastic closing statement). Thank you for doing these people justice!
I feel like this will make a few of you smile. I had a history teacher that believes this theory, so given the fact that I became obsessed with Titanic at five years old I decided to do my senior project on disproving this theory. For one hour I stood up in front of her class demolish EVERY SINGLE point she had ever brought up, thankfully the principal was in the room during my presentation so I still passed.
Right. Conspiracy theorists are wired to believe nonsense and dismiss hard facts.
Nicely done. Was she pissed off afterwards?
@helenaribeiro0225 i honestly didn't notice. The smugness was too thick, the 99 i got showed the principal thought I was on point.
I can understand how it feels to be proud of something you created after putting your heart and soul into it. I recently published a book, and holding a physical copy of it in my hands was enough to bring tears of joy to my eyes. I can imagine that was how Thomas Andrews felt when he saw the Titanic upon her completion.
It pains me that people still believe the switch theory (which is quite an impossibility) and still believe bankers had something to do with the sinking aswell.
we live in a world with flat earthers, so people still believing the switch theory isn't that surprising sadly
Agreed. I was trolled by the producers of one of the conspiracy switching videos on UA-cam several years ago. The evidence I presented against the producers claims was met by me being targeted by 100’s of trolls and the producers. I believe that video no longer exists, but the conspiracy lives on. Sad.
It doesn't pain me but it makes me angry how many people are still that ignorant to believe this shit
So, in your world, conspiracies don't exist, at all?
@@PeadarBoc Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that these theories have been disproven multiple times and have several holes in them. I'm just annoyed how anyone could think this tragedy was influenced by anything other than no binoculars, an ice field, and a pitch black night.
Great video. Rational, evidence-based and well presented. Thanks so much for being a voice of reason against the ever growing ranks of conspiracy theorists.
Co-incidence theorists piss me off ! You'll be telling me they landed on the moon next! Madness.
The switch theory has always puzzled me. Olympic was less than a year old by that point, why intentionally sink a perfectly new ship? Let's not forget that this is White Star Line and Harland & Wolff, the same people who salvaged the SS Suevic and built her an entirely new bow after she lost hers during a grounding. Why would they declare Olympic a total loss when they managed to save Suevic (who continued to serve until her scuttling during WWII)?
Not to mention that planning a collision with some random iceberg is impossible, how would WSL know an iceberg would be there? It's just not possible. Plus, Andrews, Ismay, etc. would have never agreed. Andrews is not that type of person and Ismay would never agree sinking something he was proud of, all because her sister had a minor incident with Hawke. There are so many holes that I'm surprised that people believe it.
Some people devote their entire lives and their whole identity to believing and passing conspiracy theories as undisputed fact.
Not to mention that it directly implies they willingly endangered and killed hundreds of other passengers and crew members, who had NOTHING to do with the supposed scheme to dispose of J.P. Morgan's rivals or whatever the theory is. Like even considering the unrestrained and cutthroat capitalism of the era, it's doubtful that they'd accept hundreds of deaths as collateral damage for an assassination of a few men.
To give the theory the least bit of undeserved defence, it at least doesn't claim that Titanic's _actual_ sinking went down as planned. As Mike states in the video, she was supposed to sink in a controlled manner with everybody getting off alive. Hitting an iceberg (or, according to Gardner, the rescue ship) was an accident.
That, of course, doesn't change the fact that it's all rubbish regardless. There are so many other reasons to write the switch theory off.
Insurance fraud. If they knew that the cost to repair was significant, they wouldn't have to pay the cost to repair if the ship sunk and got a payout for the value of an undamaged ship.
Fire in the hold, use lifeboats to transfer to a nearby ship. Bye bye ship, everyone lives.
The Olympic would have been crippling to repair and insurance deemed the fault to be with white star.
Paying for someone else's damage and losing profit as a result. Any further claims would have been reduced compared to a new ship.
But this is only what other videos have said. I can't find all of this information and haven't really looked.
Sometimes I wish you weren't so nice. That Robin Gardiner guy definitely deserved harsher words. Thank you for another great video. As always, just when I think I've heard all there is to know about Titanic, you bring to my attention something new.
Hi Mike
Have you considered making a video about stowaway passengers on oceanliners? I think that might be an interesting topic.
Hope this gets seen! I agree!
I know there was one guy on a French liner who simply did it for the hell of it. Always nicely dressed and the life of the party. He was on the 1912 France once when the Chief Purser asked him what cabin he was staying in. The guy gave the Purser a movie star smile, said, "The entire ship is my cabin!" and waltzed down the Grand Staircase to dinner in the 1st Class Dining Saloon.
The line ""Whether or not Gardnier realised the image was fake at the time of writing his _novel_" is a beautifully understated twist of the knife!
I knew that image was fake years ago when I first saw it. It was just lettering in "bevel."
The problem with conspiracy theorists is that they choose their conclusion first, and then pick facts in and out of context to support it. This is as opposed to realists, who observe the facts and then formulate a conclusion based on the most likely result of those facts.
Conan-Doyle, through Sherlock Holmes, summed this up, when he wrote 'It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Inevitably one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.'
However, I would go further. Where Conspiracists & Switchers are concerned, replace 'twist' with 'invent.'
Agree. Not to mention they're the most scared and paranoid people on the planet, seeing threat, danger and corruption everywhere, in every song, movie and design. They're just unable to comprehend the fact sometimes sh*t just happens and there's no bribe, murder or UFO involved.
Facts? what facts do you know. Oh yes, I know one that the conspiracy theory; CIA invented the term in 1967 to disqualify those who questioned the official version of John F Kennedy’s assassination and doubted that his killer, Lee Harvey Oswald, had acted alone.
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Would you not admit that the vast majority of people's opinions are based off their emotions? And when I say vast majority I mean like 99% excluding only robotically autistic folk. The average person picks their conclusion first and then fills in the rest with cherrypicked facts and ignorance of any that oppose it, usually without even realising it because it's a subconscious survival mechanism in order to protect your fragile psyche that relies heavily on how you choose to see the world and then dictates your narrative for reality. I also don't know what people mean when they refer to these apparent conspiracy theorists like there's a large demographic of hobbyists who believe in and argue for every single proposed conspiracy theory that's given light. It's a bit of a myth tbh mate, but I think what you mean are the lone nutters who get carried away with ridiculous ones and that's usually an obsessed individual focused on one particular conspiracy theory or multiple that relate to a particular subject. The idea of a conspiracy theory fan club is funny though I must admit lol. However I assume the meme's origins were for the purpose of intentionally discrediting the concept of believing in powerful people planning and plotting methods to maintain power, so it's concerning when you see people casually referring to these supposed "conspiracy theorists" as a demographic because it means it's actually effective unfortunately. We desperately need to emphasise the value of critical thinking in our society
The biggest undertaking would have been convincing thousands of irish shipyard workers to not talk about this happening. Every piece of stationary, written material, and every other item with the name of the ship would have to be swapped. Someone would have found something marked Olympic and said something.
The stationary, written material, had white star on it not the ships name, it was all white star standard issue! As far as convincing thousands of irish shipyard workers to not talk about this happening this is also BS as why you folks who say this think that the man making the door knob, or the fixture or the cabinets etc, has to know that a switch is taking place?
Keeping thousands of Irishmen quite about English dishonesty right when what we now call the Irish revolutionary period was about to kick off.
I swear the folks who cooked up this conspiracy are utter m**0ns. Completely oblivious about the implications this switch would have on technological, economical or political level.
Not if they were all unaware of the switch
@@tonycouch yeah not everyone had to be in on the switch! Convincing thousands of irish shipyard workers to not talk about this happening is a copout!
A 1st class, passenger, Elizabeth Lindsey Lines, cabin D-28, overheard a conversation between Cptn. Smith and Bruce Ismay in the ship's lounge that went something like this:
JBI: So you've not yet lit the last four boilers?
EJS: No I don't see the need.
JBI: The press already knows of Titanic's sheer size now I want them to marvel at her speed, we must give them something new to print.
EJS: Mr. Ismay, I'd like to give them a chance to be fully run in first.
Ismay puffs his fat cigar and says, "Of course, I'm just a passenger. I'll leave it to your good officers to decide what's best."
Some say this conversation never took place, I, however, firmly believe it did.
'A 1st class, passenger, Elizabeth Lindsey Lines, cabin D-28, overheard a conversation between Cptn. Smith and Bruce Ismay in the ship's lounge that went something like this:
JBI: So you've not yet lit the last four boilers?'
Mrs. Lines was, doubtless, an honest and accurate witness. To quote the relevant section of her testimony, it went from question 41 onwards :-
41. Are you able to state from your recollection the words that you heard spoken between Mr. Ismay and Captain Smith on that occasion?
- We had had a very good run. At first I did not pay any attention to what they were saying, they were simply talking and I was occupied, and then my attention was arrested by hearing the day's run discussed, which I already knew had been a very good one in the preceeding (sic) twenty-four hours, and I heard Mr. Ismay - it was Mr. Ismay who did the talking - I heard him give the length of the run, and I heard him say "Well, we did better to-day than we did yesterday, we made a better run to-day than we did yesterday, we will make a better run to-morrow. Things are working smoothly, the machinery is bearing the test, the boilers are working well". They went on discussing it, and then I heard him make the statement: "We will beat the Olympic and get in to New York on Tuesday."
42. In your last statement, Mrs. Lines, were you giving the substance of the conversation or the exact words which were used?
- I heard "We will beat the Olympic and get in to New York on Tuesday" in those words.
43. If there were any particular words spoken that you can remember, I should be glad to hear them.
- Those words fixed themselves in my mind: "We will beat the Olympic and get in to New York on Tuesday."
44. Do I understand you to say that the other things that you stated were the general substance of what you heard and not the exact things or words used?
- No, I heard those statements.
45. What was said by Mr. Ismay as regards the condition of the performances, of the engines, machinery and boilers?
- He said they were doing well, they were bearing the extra pressure. The first day's run had been less, the second day's run had been a little greater. He said "You see they are standing the pressure, everything is going well, the boilers are working well, we can do better to-morrow, we will make a better run to-morrow."
There was, in Mrs.Lines' testimony, no reference to lighting ' the last four boilers' at all. Moreover she was adamant about the exact words used.
Whatever influence Ismay may or may not have had over Smith, if Mrs.Lines is indeed a credible witness, then no such reference was made. At least, not within the earshot of Mrs.Lines.
The conversation did take place, but only in Cameron's film.
@@Dizzy19.
Check again friend. Cameron got that scene from the transcripts of the disaster inquiry from NY. Although not reproduced in it's entirety it was a factual event as described by the
witness in her testimony.
And not only that, under cross examination the withness repeated the same statement over several times.
@@Dizzy19. Quite correct. The snippets of conversation Mrs. Lines heard, or recalled, undoubtedly took place and were probably accurate. They did not, of course, include any reference to increasing speed.
The conversation as you describe it, and as it appeared in 'Titanic' was undoubtedly the work of a scriptwriter working to a theme, which was 'Bruce Ismay must be seen to be a dastardly villain' and the alleged conversation is unsupported by any evidence.
@@charliefarley9658 'Cameron got that scene from the transcripts of the disaster inquiry from NY. Although not reproduced in it's entirety it was a factual event as described by the witness in her testimony.'
Sorry, but Mrs. Lines did not testify at either 1912 Inquiry. She did, however, provide evidence at the 1913 Limitation of Liability Hearing. She was actually quite specific in her claims, which were that Ismay commented to Smith that Titanic was performing better on her maiden voyage than Olympic had in the previous June..
She did not, however, claim that any reference was made to a speed increase, or that Ismay sought to order Smith to take such action.
The concersation in the movie is an invented one.
Having signed the Official Secrets Act as soon as you said that the crew were read it, i knew it was fake.
Gardner would have still sold his books if he had said it was fiction.
Exactly! Publish it as a what-if novel; people would have eaten it up, the same way they love anything Titanic-related.
Well... maybe. You do have to have some baseline writing ability to make a sellable book. And the plot is objectively ridiculous, something Titanic scholars would immediately point out. Still, as pure fiction it wouldn't matter so much.
One of my favourite quotes from Sir Humphrey in 'Yes Minister':
"Oh come now Minister! The Official Secrets Act is not there to protect secrets....it's there to protect officials!"
@@Wintermute909you are clearly an art connoisseur - you get a 👍 just for the Yes Minister reference! Best tv show ever
My favorite Titanic conspiracy theory is that it sank because of the amount of time travelers on board at that moment trying to save it
LMAO that’s a good one
Just try to explain that telephone booth that mysteriously disappeared just before Titanic hit the iceburg. And Captain Smith was looking for the Doctor on the bridge.
@@donallan6396 the car on titanic was a deloreon LMAO
@backonpro5679 😂😂😂😂 The Titanics look outs in the crow's nest were distracted by the sight of the Delorean landing on the ship
Too funny
My favorite Titanic conspiracy is the one where everyone in fact survived the sinking because a giant octopus saved the ship.
Also there was a rapping dog for some reason.
Also there's a war involving the Titanic in Atlantis where the king is a ring wraith.
Well, the rapping dog WAS fact.
@@Iamhungey Atlantis, or Middle Earth?
@@toddkurzbard Probably both, that movie was trippy.
I understood that reference..
I recall reading that Gardner DID admit to making the whole thing up to sell a book shortly before he died.
Such a despicable human
I imagine Mike was saying to legally cover his ass incase Gardner's estates or whomever tried to sue him for defamation. Or maybe he said what he said because he genuinely likes to believe in the good of people
But I am under no such obligation however.
I 100% Believe in no uncertain terms that Richard Gardner knew that his theory was bullshit, and didn't care because he could sell some books. It is usually the case with crackpot conspiracies like this. We need look no further than the online political sphere where people like Alex Jones and Ben Shapiro knowingly spread malicious disinformation to make a quick buck irregardless of whom they hurt, all that matters is low-information people will lap up what they spew and do no further research.
It's the tried and true method for the conspiracy theory circut
@@amr_12_ Atleast he told the truth in the end, some people died revered as heroes only for their horrific actions to be revealed so at least gardner admitted to lying
That is total nonsense, Why would he discredit the book ?
@@expattaffy1954 Because he decided to come clean?
Excellent job. What's so depressing is the number of Titanic videos out there that feed on the conspiracy theories for clicks. As you point out, it's not a victimless crime.
Bad research (or deliberate ignorance), apart from effecting the dead and their relatives, undermines truth itself.
I really enjoyed these parts 1 and 2 Mike. Thanks for all of you and your teams hard work. I really enjoy this entire channel.
I have "The Riddle of The Titanic" (German translation) sitting here on the shelf. Must have bought and read it in 1997/98 because I was in military replacement service. Back then 20 year old me found it pretty persuading. Probably it worked so well because internet was in its infancy and to do proper research you would actually have to go to local, British archives, with small German town libraries not offering the right materials and ordering them from far away was an effort. The more internet access I gained and the more sources came up, the fewer the theory worked.
Also, there were many passenger quotes saying about how everything was new and Titanic was bright and freshly painted, while Olympic was almost a year old at that point, so there would have been entirely too many changes to implement onto a year old liner at that point to make it appear new when all of the carpeting, the linoleum, the paint, the extra first class suites on B Deck with private promenades, the deck planking, everything. There were differences between the crew spaces on Olympic and Titanic as well that the crew would've never kept quiet for years and years. Someone would've blown the whistle eventually and others would've joined in time. There's no possible way that EVERYONE would've kept quiet for all time with a story like that. Especially with the riots and wars that were fought between Catholics and Prostestants over the many many years. Someone (if not many surviving shipyard workers) would've spilled the beans to the media.
Mike, Olympic received her two additional forecastle portside portholes in fall 1911 around the same time as Titanic. She didn't receive it during the 1913 refit. They're photos dated January and March 1912 of Olympic. In the January photo, Olympic is seen in Southampton with a 16 portholes count. The March 7th photo shows Olympic in Belfast with a 16 portholes count. We know they're dated in early 1912 because of the additional fan ventilator that was installed above the bridge on the starboard side. The fan ventilator isn't seen in a March 2nd photo but is later seen in a March 6th photo. In the January photo, the fan ventilator isn't seen so we know that photo is dated before March 1912 as in the photo, the 16 portholes count is seen as well. So the additional portholes on Olympic's portside was installed in fall 1911.
Oh nice one, thanks! I always thought it was in 1913. Yet another nail in the switch coffin 😂
I think the extra two portholes were added either just before or during the time Olympic was in Belfast for repairs in March 1912; photos taken of the portside from Victoria park show the extra two, also, the lifeboat gunwhales appear to have been painted brown before the Hawke collision as photos showing the hole you can see the lifeboats gunwhales are now brown. Yes I think the original fitted vent was replaced when Olympic was brought into Beflast, she left on 7th or 8th March with a swan necked type vent which was the same as the one fitted to Titanic.
@@OceanlinerDesigns but bixby the angriest about this the most is that engineers almost all of them stayed behind slowing the water down, while keeping the lighting on as best as they could knowing that they were going to drown and don't forget the band trying to pandemonium too a minimum and the captain, for accepting the fact he made a big mistake and decided to go down with the mistakes
@@OceanlinerDesignsalso, to my comment, the radio operator who frantically stayed until the very last second a hero
I'm so glad you addressed the "MP" footage - that image completely convinced me of the switch when I first saw that 2012 documentary. Clearly, it was a forgery.
I honestly hate this conspiracy so much because it's an utter insult to Olympic and her legacy. She did so much during her lifetime and was the last sister remaining. I understand the fascination with Titanic but damnit Olympic and Britannic are NOT just footnotes in their doomed sister's story.
Women were some of the most reliable witnesses who lived to tell the tale. For example, in Lifeboat 14, the late Eva Hart, (1905 - 1996) vividly describes the light and silhouette of a ship in the distance, evidently the Californian. She also heavily criticized the lack of lifeboats aboard and Californian's ineptitude, stating that most if not all on board could have been saved but instead had died unnecessary horrible deaths. She also described witnessing the ship breaking in half which was disputed but she was proven absolutely correct after the discovery of the wreck site by Robert Ballard in 1985.
Bear in mind that Eva Hart was only seven years old at the time of the sinking. Her recollections might well have been influenced by things she read or heard later in life.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Even if she was only seven, she would remember her experiences. I remember the experiences I had just before I turned 3 years old too.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Yes, I did bear that in mind. However, Ms Hart was a highly intelligent and articulate woman whose recall and mental faculties were still very much intact into old age. You might be aware that she also stated from the outset that as a seven-year-old, she witnessed the Titanic breaking in half. This occurrence was just a theoretical rumour at the time as it was for many years following the disaster and was not factually established until more than 73 years later, proving there was nothing amiss with Ms Eva Hart's recollection of the event. What are your thoughts on that?
@@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Quite, and well said. A traumatic event in a child's mind is indelibly imprinted for the remainder of their lives. I can vouch for that.
@@barbarajackson7824 I have no particular thoughts on that. I simply stated a fact, which appears to have annoyed you.
You might consider how much credence would be given to the unsupported testimony of a seven years old child in a Court of Law, however.
I have never waited in anticipation for part two of a documentary as I have with this one, even though the world knew that the story was b,ll,cos it was still a long wait,well done chaps.
I just learned a new word from this video: "allision". Never knew that was the more accurate word for when the Titanic struck the berg. Huh. The more you know. Cheers, Mike!
The NTSB uses the term in relevant marine accident/investigation reports.
Really well done show you have going , not only are the stories great but the archive photos and cgi really tie it all together , good job
I'm so happy your videos were the first source where I got any information about this conspiracy, so I can keep Titanics picture untainted.
What a fine and long overdue debunking of the RMS Olympic/RMS Titanic switch theory.
All Bruce Ismay was ever guilty of was trying to run a shipping business and having ambitions to put out the finest ocean liners out there.
The amount of vicious libel against the man whether it’s switch conspiracies or ridiculous accusations that he ordered Smith to go too fast or refused to fund the SPECIAL STEEL for the Titanic’s hull or whatever else is uncanny.
Low-tensile grade wrought iron hull rivets in freezing waters were just one of the many contributing factors in the loss of 1,500 men, women and children on the ill-fated Titanic. No question about it.
Odd that Olympic, built of the same materials at the same time, experienced no similar problems, wasn't it? Ever considered the possibly that it wasn't faulty materials which sank Titanic, but a bloody great iceberg?
@dovetonsturdee7033
What's your point? The Olympic popped quite a few rivets when she got munced by Hawke.
@@alexandros4703 Precisely. Thank you for your support. What you have just accepted is that Titanic was a perfectly seaworthy ship, until she encountered a situation which was completely unexpected and totally beyond the parameters within which she, or Olympic, had been designed.
Olympic did not encounter a similar situation, and thus had a long and successful career.
I doubt that anyone would accuse Leonard Peskett of any design flaws in Lusitania, because he had not anticipated that she might be torpedoed?
@@heresjohnny7579 'What's your point? The Olympic popped quite a few rivets when she got munced by Hawke.
'
Did Olympic sink? That is my point.
@@alexandros4703 ' Bla, Bla, Bla, you're a scatterbrain, bud, Lusitania this, Olympic the other and Maritunai something else; And yeh, yeh, yeh, if my Aunty had a bollox she would have been my Uncle, etc etc, etc.'
Oh dear. Were you intoxicated when you posted that?
Thank you and Mr. Payne for unraveling this persistent conspiracy that has never been founded in fact. I really enjoy your videos and your acute attention to all the facts. Your channel is one of my favorite subscriptions and I always look forward to another new installment. Thank you for your incredible work!
Wonderful subject Mike and thank you for clearing up the Titanic mystery switch. The part where the plan was to deliberately cause an accident with Olympic now Titanic is just ludicrous. Still have a copy of the 12 course menu served in 1st class the night of the fatal accident from an exhibition held in London of the Titanic.
I became a huge Titanic fan when Cameron's movie was released, but even more so when we went to Branson, MO to the museum. Now, I've studied up a lot on everything to do with the ship and these videos are a huge help! Great job as usual Mike!
No matter how many little truthful details are sprinkled into this conspiracy I still can't get myself to believe that the White Star Line would've done this. I said it on part one, and I'll say it again: I really don't think they would damage their reputation to such an extend, risking people's lives, the lives of noteable first class passengers, just for insurance money. Even if they'd planned on getting all the crew off the ship the risk would've been too great. Not to mention there weren't enough lifeboats to pull this off to begin with.
Had there been enough lifeboats it probably still wouldn't have been enough to rescue everyone on board considering the speed at which Titanic sank.
I honestly can't imagine a company willingly damaging their reputation like that just to cash in on insurance money. Their future would've been quite bleak, even if everyone had survived.
It's an intriguing theory, and I commend the writer of the book for coming up with it, but darn, that would've been one heck of a magic trick. Also I really can't imagine the White Star Line to have enough of an influence to keep basically the entirity of Belfast silent even with Harland and Wolff employing about a 5th of the population in its shipyard.
I will admit, saying that the conspiracy of the Earth being flat is more believable than the Olympic/Titanic switch might let conspicary theorists go 'oh, so completely possible, then.'
The problem with conspiracies of this kind is that they require ever larger conspiracies to explain the gaps. WSL's competitors (who normally kept a close eye on WSL's goings-on I'm sure) said nothing because the cruise lines were in a conspiracy, too! And the government! But somehow the insurance company was left in the dark, because, uh, the government was in on it, like I said.
It's a lot like the moon landing conspiracy; if it didn't happen, how come the Soviet Union didn't - having every incentive in the world to do so - suss that one out? Because larger conspiracy!
Had the water tight compartment bulkheads been higher, Titanic wouldn't have sank. But White Star chose more accommodation space and more deck space over safety.
Equally, had only four compartments been compromised, she wouldn't have sunk.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Amazing how you would know about compromised compartments and not the reason for Bruce Ismay's vilification. Perhaps you are more technically minded?
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Everyone knows that more than four compartments were compromised, the opening comment, which apparently escaped your attention, refers to the height of those compartments. Is that too difficult for you?
@@goinsouth5187 Dyslexia is a genetically inherited condition caused by the compromising of four compartments in the front cerebral cortex due to a chromosomal defect at conception.
@@ukraineunited56 Not at all. I merely posted the reply to give you an opportunity to expand on the comment. A technical mindset is not really needed to know about the Titanic sinking.
From someone who is from Belfast, I used to believe in this dumb theory but it was due to the lack of knowledge, now I am actually really annoyed by it. It takes a massive dump on all the workers and fine builders of this glorious ship. I love that your videos tackle it head on and challenge it. Keep up the fantastic work brother.
I'm curious, what was the tipping point that changed your mind?
@@mikedicenso2778 It was seeing the Titanic at the bottom of ocean with 401 everywhere and seeing the Olympic scrapped with the number 400 on the parts. Plus the amount of workers who would have said something in Belfast Harbour after noticing the ships were being switched.
@@IrishTechnicalThinker The thousands of people and their wives and families who never peeped a word even 50, 60 years later is just not possible. Studies have concluded only about 55% of people can keep a secret.
Hello Mike. I just love your Oceanliner Designs channel so much! And you have taught me so much through your videos! 😍😊
So, I was wondering if you could do a video on Olympic's refits through her career?? It would be so interesting!
I love how informative your videos are!
Unfortunately there’s lots of people who believe everything they hear without questioning anything. Another great video Mike. Hopefully this can put the ridiculous theory to bed!
And, ironically, they are the same people who cry "Question everything!"
And who claim having done their own research... a time they could have better used in learning to spell.
Conspiracy theorists are just wired to believe the ridiculous and dismiss any actual fact. Too complicated for their little brains, unfortunately.
The dumbest titanic theory I’ve ever heard was that the iceberg was being pushed by a German U-boat and that this was the REAL reason that WWI happened. It took all of my self control to not mock this person.
This is kind of similar to the one I made up for laughs.
Except mine involve the iceberg being a secret base with a u-boat inside.
@@Iamhungey this is more interesting than the switch theory!
@@Henri_Hilarious Thanks.
If they had a year to make the changes, well, maybe...but six weeks? With a partial work crew? Those men and/or their families would have eventually told the story of this huge race of an undertaking. I just can't see it. Not for all the decades since.
Agreed. I have always described Gardiner's book as a great yarn, a fairly good fictional work, but as a theory does not stand up to the tiniest bit of scrutiny.
@@Aidankiwi exactly.
My grandparents were old enough to remember the talk, and that it was switched was talked about at the time.
Guess who owned Reuters and other news agencies even before Queen Victoria died? Long before the Titanic? The Rothschilds.
Thank you Mr. Brady for this awaited video haha, I particularly have been looking forward to this. both two parts are spectacular, you're analysis and complete coverage over this by far has given me a lot of greater insight and also makes me remember what I have forgotten. Great work!
Thank you for the kind words!
@@OceanlinerDesigns Most definitely! Bless you♥
I think Fenton was taking too much fentanol! 😂
Good investigative work Michael. You have restored the honour of the Titanic.
Thanks Mike @OceanlinerDesigns for another great episode. To Mike's potent takedown of the "switch" theory, I would add yet one more level of absurdity that would be required for this "conspiracy" to be real. The so called original plan to scuttle the ship could only work with complicity from Captain Smith, the other Officers, the Chief Engineer, and a host of others in Titanic's crew. Even assuming Captain Smith went bad, it would not have worked without Wilde, Murdoch, Lightoller, and Bell. Even further assuming these men were all scoundrels, you would be asking them to throw their careers away; it was all but a foregone conclusion that Wilde, Murdoch, and Lightoller would eventually be Captains in the White Star Fleet. A major accident at sea was the only thing that could derail that, as C. H. Lightoller survived to discover.
Thanks for setting the record straight Mike!
Had 'Paddy the Pig' really been onboard Titanic, she would have been saved, as they could have used his ears to extend at least two bulkheads as needed!
@@davidhusband5022 - The Titanic
This channel has become my favourite UA-cam channel, love the content and the research that goes into it
Why would Ismay (who was certainly a high enough ranking member of the company so he must’ve been involved in any supposed scams) travel on a ship he knew was going to be intentionally sunk?
Did you see how unashamed he was to hop in a lifeboat lol?
The switch theory is as absurd as the flat earth theory.
Not really because one could be done with the right co-ordination, resources and ruthlessness - especially without the internet and instant messaging. Not impossible, just highly improbable. Whereas the flat earth theory is stupid and quite literally impossible.
As well the "fake Moon landing" and the Russian Collusion. We have no dearth of ridiculous conspiricies. Something weird in Human nature, I guess. 😅
As absurd as the "fake Moon landings" and Russian Collusion conspiricies. We have no dearth of ridiculous conspiticy theories, it's a part of Human nature. 😅
Flat earth has issues, the most recent that people can't answer with even a tiny degree of understanding is the recent test of rail guns fired from ships to other ship targets at around 130 to 150 miles away.
The projectile travels at around 6000 mph, it has no moving parts, so it does not steer itself. But yet it travels over a curve at around 10,000 feet from one ship to another....
How does the projectile achieve this ??
You are just one of the sheep. Intelligent people know the “iceberg” that Titanic hit was actually the Ice Wall that surrounds Earth at its rim.
You sir have done a fantastic job of debunking this conspiracy.
Must say, the switching conspiracies don't interest me in the least because I know it's all complete nonsense. What does interest me are some of the main players associated with the Titanic such as Ismay, Andrews, Carlisle, Pierre, Sanderson, and Smith, and those directly associated with the Titanic's sinking and with the subsequent loss of so many lives.
The way people believe those theories when it's so clearly untrue and doesn't even take that long to do real research is unbelievable. You explained it so simple and clearly that it just isn't possible that the wreck is the Olympic, people who believe the theory are just like those who believe the earth is flat
Another 50 year Naval Architect here. Having started my career as a Shipwright apprentice and worked all the way through the ranks to senior management roles, I feel justified in rejecting Mr. Gardener's "theory" out of hand - his proposals is clearly impossible!
I commented on part I and will add a supplemental here. Mr. Gardener has impuned the reputation of many honorable men. For example, it is impossible to accept that the many professional inspectors from the Board of Trade, LLoyds, the owners' representatives and the shipyard's own inspection staff, who would have been required to reproduce thousands of documents in order to cover the fraud, would have had the time and then agreed to risk their honour and careers to comply with such a proposal. Further, Captain Smith and all of his officers must also have been complacent. Not to mention the 15,000 general shipyard workers and others, as you noted. This is a conspiracy theory rivalling the (non) moon landings and the flat Earth!
Thank you for taking the time to debunk Mr. Gardener.
We never went to the moon
G'day Mike, The switching of the two ships is a wonderfully fantasised story & that is where it ends. One minor
point is how could H&W along with J.Bruce Ismay stop anyone of the thousands of dock workers from ever saying
a single word of such a mammoth task? the answer to that is they couldn't.
It amazes me just how many theories like this get started and grow yet nobody ever seems to think of the simplest logic like "You really think you can convince 3,000 people to keep a secret for life?" Even if they agreed to not expose them, you know 20% would be telling their wives who's then going to talk about it with their lady friends.
15,000 men worked for Harland & Wolff by 1911-1912.
@dovetonsturdee7033 I was just giving a general number for the point but that just makes it even more clear. Thank you though for making me aware of the actual number.
@@sologamer3122 I wasn't criticising, just adding to the strength of the point you made.
@dovetonsturdee7033 oh I know that's why I was thanking you. Sorry it's impossible to convey tone in writing.
Conspiracy theorists are just wired that way.
The fact that Gardiner believes thousands of men could be cynical enough to commit mass murder and fraud in the way he described, is evidence that he was cynical enough to have imagined the entire thing just to sell his book.
It doesnt take a lot of people to know in any grand conspiracy. Manhattan project is one example. Not saying this is one of these, but there is a lot of interesting info around this event , creation of the federal reserve , WW1. So my mind is open
I mean Gardiner did admit later in life he made it all up, he even says in early versions of his book that the theory isnt possible and that he doubted it happened. He only acted diehard about it because it made him money.
Garnier's ghost is probably being haunted by the ghosts of Captain Smith, Bruce Ismay, Thomas Andrews, and everyone who built the damn ship for calling them liars. Great video, Mike. I love your contents.
There was no switch. Titanic hit the Iceberg and Titanic sank. 👍🚢 Big fan of your channel Mike. Again excellent work Mike.👍🚢🚢🚢
Excellent series Mike, hope this puts all this nonsense to bed.
👋 like your videos
As much as I hope as well… I doubt it.
It won't.
Because there are too many gullible idiots and suckers in this world who will, somehow, actually, BELIEVE it.
If the theory were true, it would mean that Olympic was not too damaged to keep her from getting most of the way across, which seems to mean she was not too terribly damaged, which leaves the theory a bit on the self-defeating side.
Dang it! I have school.
And I didnt watched the first part on purpose so I can watch the first and second parts one immediately after the other.
My anxiety has no limit.
Great work, sir. I saw the conspiracy film years ago. Yes, it was somewhat compelling, but ultimately it was not convincing. What is convincing, though, is what you've put together here. Thanks for putting the theory to rest, and for all your work in providing us with the facts. Well done.
Ah yes, evidence. A conspiracy's worst nightmare.
People today misuse the term conspiracy theory..
It's their kryptonite
It sucks that you just say "conspiracy" because those are real, plenty of them are, including some very extreme "crazy" ones that have been legitimately proven. You should keep that separate from these absurd and stupid conspiracy theories.
@@CJM-rg5rt Indeed but keep in mind there are people who believes that if one theory is true, then all of them are.
That's where the mess starts.
Once again absolutely fantastic video Mike, I look forward to every one.
My question to those that actually still believe in the switch theory, Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny... why bother to switch. Why not just run the Olympic up against an iceberg and let it sink? Seems a hell of a lot simpler than the effort of trying to make one sister look other (switching literally every single 401 numbered part with all of the 400 numbered. Which we know is not the case as numerous parts recovered from the wreck are all numbered 401 and all surviving wood paneling from Olympic are correctly marked 400.)
R.I.P Bernard Hill, who played Captain Edward Smith in James Cameron's movie about the Titanic. He's quite a well known actor here in the UK.
'Gizza job!' Anyone remember Yosser Hughes?
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Only just lol!! xx
"Go on, gizza job, any job" A marvellous actor. I didn't know he'd passed on. Great shame....
Also Theoden King in LOTR. G*d, did I LOVE him in those films. He made him my favorite character. My heart STILL swells when he gives his battle speech, and I still cry every time I watch Theoden die.
Scientists concluded that the steel plates used for the ship were subject to being especially brittle when cold and that this brittleness exacerbated the impact damage and hastened the sinking.
The Siemens-Martin formula steel used on Titanic has been tested and the results concluded that in order for it to become brittle one would have to make it colder than the temperature of liquid nitrogen especially at the thickness of plate used on Titanic.
The study did however call into question the effects of the rapid heating and cooling of rivets made same formula with it commonly believed that it could effect the known elastic properties of the steel.
Then again, none of that really matters when a liner weighing over 52,000 tons collides with an iceberg at 23 knots, none of the vessels of Titanic's era could have survived such a hit, they simply weren't designed for it.
@@Tozzpot500 Yes, I'm sure the steel itself was fine. It was the Rivet heads being ripped off on impact that caused the plates to part. Of course, you are perfectly correct. When the hull of a 52,000-ton hollow mass collides with a jagged solid mass at that speed, the outcome is never going to be good. Which brings us back to the most pertinent question-why was that speed maintained in those conditions?
@@SamanthaDavies1536 (Apologies for the wall of text)
In my personal opinion, pressure from Smith's higher-ups to make Titanic's maiden go smoothly while also keeping coal usage as efficient as possible due to the coal strikes in England causing a shortage alongside having Ismay and Andrews aboard led to the decision to maintain her normal cruising speed of 23 knots.
We know from records Smith had been asked to keep coal consumption in mind and that Titanic burned coal most efficiently at her cruising speed so that no doubt contributed to his choice to remain at 23 knots despite the warnings.
Throw in Ismay's percieved excited nature at how well Titanic was performing as indicated by the testimony of Elizabeth Lines, along with him being Chairman of the WSL no doubt added to the presure felt by Smith at that moment.
There was also no doubt a false sense of security as Titanic's course change no doubt led to Smith and the officers believing that they had avoided the worst of the ice field sealed the deal. We know from Smith's record that he was not one to deviate from company protocol and no doubt the choices he made such as the course correction etc led him to think that maintaining 23knots was the correct move.
Alas we know that it was not. As to why Murdoch never made the call to reduce speed even by a few knots? Probably same reasons as Smith. Given what they knew and their percieved view of safety from the course correction i can understand why they never reduced speed, same with other liners in the vicinity of the icefield.
But thats my own personal view on why and much if it is me inferring i will admit. I think it fits with what we know and the evidence i personally have seen but then again i could be entirely wrong. If i was going to lay the blame on anyone though i personally try not to, it would be WSL upper management for the added pressure, but even then how were any of them to predict such a disaster taking place? A tragedy is a tragedy, while some actions clearly had an effect i don't think any of the people involved could have forseen or predicted such an awful thing to happen, but again, thats my own view, id be interested in hearing yours?
@@Tozzpot500 Great comments, 👍makes a lot of sense, there is little I could add other than to say that I would entirely agree with your very logical assessment of events which in combination resulted in this man-made disaster.
@@goinsouth5187Thank you for your kind words.
Hi Mike,a great story very well researched and presented.I never believed the theory and you have reinforced my belief.Thank you,cheers Roly🇬🇧.
Another great video, professionally dismembering the falsehoods revealed in the book. Very well done. Looking forward to your next video.
11:00 This argument alone debunks the ship switch. Never in history have so many people kept such a secret for so long.
There are contenders. The Soviet N-1 rocket program involved hundreds of thousands of scientists and engineers and military personnel and remained a tight lipped secret for thirty years until the Soviet Union collapsed. Of course, much of the Soviet space program happened behind closed doors, fears of the KGB were enough to keep anybody quiet, and the Soviets wouldn't even announce their space missions until they were considered enough of a success to gloat about for propaganda purposes. I think a more compelling argument is the fact that the Titanic and Olympic were constructed and repaired in full view of the public. Surely, if they were to plan some insurance fraud scheme, the conspirators would have had the good sense to switch the ships under the cover of a gigantic dockyard warehouse or something.
@@WhiteJarrah A lot of what you just said is untrue in the wording you chose.
It would be better to use fewer blanket terms. E.g.: plenty of Soviet space failures were shared openly within the community.
This hull switch idea is right up there with flat earth, moon landing fake, 9/11 inside job, etc.
It sounds passable right up until you learn *anything at all* about the subject(s) in question.
I just cry thinking about all this. A friend of the family was trying to tell me this conspiracy was true and it hurt me to know he and others believe this. You’re so wonderful to discuss the devastating ripple effects to all those that ever touched the Titanic and all their children and grandchildren, etc. tarnishing their names, creating doubt, and accusing them of crimes they can never refute.
I've been looking forward to to this one. The switch theory is only missing an Elvis sighting on deck. Then it would be perfect.
You didn't know that Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa was seen having drinks together on Titanic?😂😂😂
You forgot Judge Crater and Jimmy Hoffa.
I understand, from reliable sources, that Bigfoot was employed by White Star Line to work down in the boiler rooms shoveling coal.
@@mikedicenso2778 It's all making sense now.
Elvis told me that bigfoot was actually a greaser, not a stoker. It's a common mistake.
Wow! 🤯 This is why I love your channel. The historical cross refrencing is AS seductive as the conspiracy theory itself. Sorry Gardner (not really)! Excellent collaboration and marrying all of the elements to produce a work that is both fascinating and visually inspiring. Steven Payne’s analogy to the flat earth theory literally made me shriek with awe and delight! I’m seriously hoping to see a Mike Brady/Oceanliner Designs and Titanic Honor and Glory collab show up in the nearby future at an indie film festival. This swabby insists! 😊
Very nicely done, Mike and team! As always!!❤
Thanks so much!
Eyyyyy, it's our friend Mike Brady from Oceanliner Designs!
No, he's MY friend Mike Brady from Oceanliner Designs!
I think Gardiner would have been better off using this theory as the premise of a fiction novel, rather than try to attach it to the historical Titanic event.
If I had one pound for every time I’ve had to explain this to someone, I would be able to build a Titanic.
It I had a pound for every piece of credible evidence which suggested that the ships had been swapped, I would still be totally skint.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 🤣🤣🤣
@@dovetonsturdee7033 if I had a braincell for every time my father had given me a good point to why the ships were switched, I would still be in debt 0.5 braincells
I've always enjoyed trying to dispel this ridiculous rumour! Excellent work as usual, thank you :)
As a usual a well researched and presented video, brilliant. I love a good conspiracy but had never even considered the slant on the reputations of all the people who would have to have been involved, a piece o evidence presented in one of the documentaries I’ve seen is that the propeller blades at the bottom of the clean show the number 401 yet they say it had been retro fitted to Olympic after it’s collision as it’s own prop had been damaged. As always when hearing conspiracy theories you are only ever presented with that view and evidence to support it, never a balanced argument..
Honey wake up! Our friend mike brady from ocean liner designs has uploaded!
Its fascinating to me that people think they would stage an accident mid ocean. Believing Conspisocy nonsense requires construct the events backwards rather than thinking about how to achieve the intended goals of said conspircy logically.
No sane conspiritor would plan this so *badly*
believing it requires you to destroy the critical thinking and logic, and just follow what it says without questioning it
"Just do your own research" is the most convincing evidence there is, clearly.
Been waiting for this, and I LOVED it. You get right to the core of WHY the switch theory would have never been possible, and this all males a lot of sense. I mena, I never believed that crap, even before I really got into the subject of Titanic in depth. It always sounded extremely farfetched and ridiculous...