Watched this with Jack the animater my grandson last night Im very proud of him Mike you have an excellent team ,another exceptional piece of work well w
28:27. The message was intercepted by the British intelligence service, who decided to ignore it. This information was purposely withheld when the British gave the American bomber crew the coordinates for the U-Boat. The British are equally to blame for this event.
On October 15, 1940 the Italian submarine Cappellini (the same that under a different captain is mentioned in this wonderful video) sunk a Belgian freighter, the Kabalo. Capitano di Corvetta Salvatore Todaro decided to rig the boat with the survivors to its ship and proceeded to tow them to safety to the Azores. He would be severely criticized by his superiors for endangering his sub but famously answered that he did it because “I felt the weight of two thousand years of civilization on my shoulders”.
Oh! This is a remarkable story, God bless the sweet hearted Capitano and crew. After beating each other to pieces, it seems that some men come to see enemy nationals as brother mother father and sister and probably his own self in another body.
If Captain Hartenstein and fellow u-boat commanders who risked themselves to save crew, passengers, civilians and PoWs have actual memorial/grave at home I hope they are well tended to and receive flowers once in a while. People who show that level of compassion even risking themselves whilst at war deserve to be honored.
Like the overwhelming percentage of German submariners in WWII, Hartensteins's grave is the hull of his sunken boat. U-156 was lost with its entire crew on 8 March 1943, sunk by an American PBY.
As a german, i don´t know about any memorials here that honour an individual soldier or a crew, and i highly doubt there are any. What you´ll find here are bronze plates in cities and small communities (sometimes with a statue), that list all the dead soldiers from both world wars which were from that particular city or community.
It's not often I get a reason to weep over the loss of a German officer that fought during WW2, and I'm not quite sure how to feel about the fact that I just did weep about 30 seconds before I started this comment. THIS is what we need more of in the world. Personal stories like this from multiple sides, not just "Germany bad, America good." This is peak UA-cam and I can not thank you enough for bringing this content to me.
When confederate General Orry Main (Patrick Swayze) answered his cousin Captain Charles Main (Lewis Smith) in the 1986 ABC TV mini series "North & South Book ll", when Charles questioned him on the wisdom of mercy to their common prewar friend from the union side, General George Hazard (James Read), he said: "Compassion always makes sense."
So many American war crimes are unaccounted for.... the targeting of civilian populations in Europe and Japan with incendiaries for maximum civilian casualties.... in Dresden, Hamburg, Leipzig, Tokyo, Nagasaki, Okinawa etc... ...and the US run Rhine Meadows PoW Death Camps and the genocide of over 1m German PoWs AFTER the wars end....
Step one: brainwash Americans to believe all people of one race, nation, or ideology are less than human. Step two: brainwash Americans that a second people of a race, nation, or ideology are less than human. Step three: continue as necessary. If you can convince people that one group are inhuman, you can convince people that any number of humans are inhuman. It's how you manipulate populations into war, genocide, and oppression to begin with. It's the high command and leaders of violent ideologies and nations that need to be held accountable, not those conscripted by force into their membership.
@@DaysofElijah317 Did you really see the video? This rescue operation was led by the commander of the German submarine fleet Karl Dönitz. So your statement makes no sense at all. No army of that time taught its soldiers higher moral values than the German one. And this happened in all ranks and especially in the SS. In the SS, for example, not even the personal cupboards were locked. This does not exist in any army to this day. In the pay book, which every soldier had as his ID, there were “The 10 Commandments of the German Soldier” and everyone had to be able to recite them by heart. "1. The German soldier fights gallantly for the victory of his people. Cruelties and useless destruction are unworthy of him. 3. No enemy who surrenders may be killed, not even the irregular and the spy. Thieves receive their just punishment through the courts. 4. Prisoners of war may not be mistreated or insulted. Weapons, plans and records must be removed. Nothing else may be taken from their belongings. 6. The red cross is inviolable. Wounded enemies must be treated humanely. Medical personnel and military chaplains may not be hindered in their medical or pastoral activities. 7. The civilian population is invulnerable. The soldier may not loot or vandalize. Historical monuments and buildings that serve worship, art, science or charity are to be given special respect. Natural resources and services from the population may only be claimed for compensation on the orders of superiors. 10. Violations of the above orders in official matters are punishable. Enemy violations of the principles listed under 1-8 must be reported. Retaliatory measures are only permissible on the orders of higher troop command." You can choose the other points yourself. No army in the world had higher moral values than the German one. Unfortunately, armies like the American one never adopted these morals and continue to shoot at civilians and bomb entire countries into rubble to this day. "America defeated Hitler, with Hitler" Mahatma Gandhi It's sad what lies there are about the "Laconia Order" on Wikipedia. Disgusting historical falsification. But the lie will never win. Even now, when the last witnesses are dying, the truth lives in their children and grandchildren. America is doing exactly that to this day and their friends the British and French are dutifully following along. It always takes a new "Hitler" to turn entire countries into ashes. Yesterday it was Binladen and Hussein, today it is Putin. Exporting suffering and misery into the world does not make you a better person. I hope that's enough to get them to direct more criticism at the living rather than the dead in the future. Greetings from Germany. For a world without war🌄
There is no better a tribute to a lost ship, an act of wartime humanity, or act of immense bravery than to be documented in one of your videos. The animations are better than some 15 year old movies, the narration is well worded and relaxing, and the storytelling is superb. Respectful and informative, this channel has come to be my favourite maritime documentary source.
@@OceanlinerDesigns100% your the best channel out there on this topic. And you even dress the part, I could see you being crew on a ship (if ships hired white folk that is)
Incredible jaw-dropping documentary about the Laconia, U-156, and this sadly forgotten part of history. Absolutely one of the best videos produced thus far!
It is less forgotten now. Winners don't like to tell anything that put their in bad or ex enemy in good light. Ww2 should been long ago neutral subject but it us still used as a propaganda. Russia is good example of that how twist whole history.
Anyone who fires on an obvious red cross visable from the air and civilians in lifeboats is comiting a war crime as stated in the geneva convention.Yanks are no exeption!@@wilsonpickett3881
The Bengal famine of 1943 was an anthropogenic famine in the Bengal province of British India (present-day Bangladesh, West Bengal and eastern India) during World War II. An estimated 2.1-3 million people died,[A] in the Bengal region (present-day Bangladesh and West Bengal), from starvation, malaria and other diseases aggravated by malnutrition, population displacement, unsanitary conditions and lack of health care. Millions were impoverished as the crisis overwhelmed large segments of the economy and catastrophically disrupted the social fabric. Eventually, families disintegrated; men sold their small farms and left home to look for work or to join the British Indian Army, and women and children became homeless migrants, often travelling to Calcutta or other large cities in search of organised relief.
@@wilsonpickett3881 that horrible event became one of the greatest political and military embarrassments to the Allied Powers, saving Admiral Donitz from possibly being executed at the Nuremberg Trials. It indirectly showed that the Allies were not immune to committing war crimes as well, and the Allies tried to cover it up after a few years in 1945 amid the fact that the Liberator bomber's actions killed more people during the rescue than the sinking of the Laconia ship. (Note - many articles have come out about this event just last year stating this) Hartenstein tried valiantly to prevent any attack on his ship while helping to rescue the survivors, similar to how the Captain of the Admiral Hipper tried to save the crew of the HMS Glowworm in 1940. The problem that people cannot understand is there was still human civility & honor between some elements of the Axis and Allied Naval forces. Take, for example, how the Japanese respected the crew of the USS Johnston at Leyte Gulf and the actions of Admiral Heye respecting the captain & crew of the HMS Glowwom's heroic last stand. Despite what you might believe now in 2024, many within the US administration, including FDR himself back then, believe the Americans didn’t want what occurred during the Laconia Incident to be revealed, as they’d be viewed as the villains. Whether or not the Red Cross flags were visible from the air is unclear. However, Hartenstein had made all necessary efforts to relay to the Allies that his intentions were no longer to attack. Tragically, the response wasn't acknowledged and thus was a close repeat of what happened to Wilhelm Gustoff later in 1945 by the Russians. Russia didn't attempt to save the stricken survivors due to their thirst for revenge and, like the Cossacks during 1814, decided to humiliate their enemy. Yet, England and other allied nations tried to save them by sending destroyers to the scene because they knew it would stir a lot of PR backlash among the public in their nations, like what would occur for the Laconia Incident. At the end of the day, there are more people who support Mike's, my, and other people's views of this tragedy vs. those who support your POV of this event. I would recommend you watch Yarnhub's video about the Glowworm and see how NOT ALL Germans were as bloodthirsty monsters as you would think. And this is coming from a fellow American with German ancestry dating back to the early German Empire.
There almost seems to be a collective desire to forget this story. As amazing as it is, it is one that I hear far less than other stories about ships. Being as appalling as it is amazing, it is no wonder why. (Not to mention it contradicts the desire to paint every last German back then as evil.)
World War II was portrayed in the immediate postwar years, as a perfectly moral war. This meant that a lot of bad or unfortunate things about the war were swept under the rug. If you want a similar situation, look at reports of pillaging by American, British and Canadian soldiers in France and the Low Countries in 1944-1945, and in Germany following the end of the war. They were every bit as bad as the German soldiers who had occupied those areas previously. Castles, mansions and other 'high-value' residences were looted for jewelry, paintings and other valuable items that could be carried. In some cases, Allied soldiers even broke into crypts to steal jewels off corpses of people who died decades, if not centuries before the war.
@@AverageAlien My mother's family is from a town in Switzerland called Schaffhausen, which was mistakenly bombed by the American Air Force. But Roosevelt immediately apologized and paid reparations. This incident I think raises the question of whether or not the American Air Force is guilty of bad judgement or a war crime. Also, the British made a crucial mistake putting 1700 POWs on a ship with only a few hundred guards and crew. That inevitably led to paranoia and abuse. Painting Germans as uniquely evil I think prevents us from misunderstanding fascism. Any capitalist country in severe decline is at risk, including the USA in 2023.
We live in a world where acknowledging that the Nazis built good roads is a pro-holocaust opinion. And more and more, that sentiment isn't applied to just the Nazis.
initial set of events was a tragedy, but the fact that no one was held accountable for this afterwards is flat criminal. if "just following orders": wasnt an excuse enough for the nazis, then it shouldn't have been for those that gave the order to attack the survivors. this needs to be made into a film without any diversion from the facts so that the public knows the history
As an Irish person what the German Captain actions that day should be known today as being above & beyond the call of duty . He should be recognized for the action he took on that day . War is hell ,humanitarian action is the highest act of humankind .
The fact that up to 7000 people died in that first sinking and yet somehow the captain survived definitely had my eyes popping?! 😳 (Esp. in an era where the ethos of captain being last off a sinking ship was usually taken pretty seriously...?)
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 Whilst Captain of the Lancastria, he was very fortunate to survive. Plenty of info out on this event but the basics is that the vessel was evacuating troops from France in 1940 and was stationary when hit. All ships leaving France were pretty well crammed with troops as "Normal" rules went out of the window. Lancastria sank quite quickly. Despite being quite close to shore the loss of life was immense.
@@timgray5231 Thanks; that makes sense. The sheer scale of the chaos, loss and horror of those mid-1940 evacuations from France (not only Dunkirk but also operations like Lancastria's) is something I find it difficult to get my head around... Just so extreme. The way information became public (or didn't) was so disrupted at the time too, through war & censorship & people movements... Difficult for the crew's families to have to wait so long for official confirmation of what had happened.
Lancastria has a Government D notice attached. Runs out in 2040. Then the truth of how many people perished will be finally known. My uncle survived this tragedy.
Cpt. Hartenstein's extended efforts to do the ethical thing despite the harsh context of war really have my admiration. See also his actions following the later sinking of the Quebec City too - this seems to have been his consistent character? The fact that the US plane's illegal bombing action directly led to the "Laconia order" and ALL German uboats being forbidden to even try and rescue survivors of ship sinkings means that Harden's crew and commander share responsibility not just for those they directly killed by bombing the Laconia survivors, but who knows how many other civilian casualties who had to abandon ships subsequent to later submarine attacks, who would not be picked up for fear of retaliation. The Allies tried to use the Laconia order against the Germans at Nuremberg trials but frankly, I feel like it is the Americans they should have been prosecuting on that one 😢 Thank you for telling this story, it must have been heartbreaking to research & recount, but I think it's super-important to memorialize.
It's the traditional Prussian military idea of honor. There were a lot of men across the Wehrmacht who still held to tradition in spite of Nazi ideology. Some of them because they had served under the Kaiser and refused to do any differently, others were raised with those ideals and were strong enough to stick to them. Hartenstein was clearly one such man
@@filmandfirearmsIndeed. There were even some high standing Wehrmacht officers like Rommel and Dönitz who kept some of that Prussian discipline. While Rommel was disgraced and forced to kill himself, Dönitz even succeeded Hitler as the leader of Germany for a few weeks. After all of that, the Allies couldn't even charge him for crimes against humanity. As such, instead of the usual death penalty, he only got 10 years in prison. The Kriegsmarine was kind of the least Nazi of the three branches of the Wehrmacht. A quote I've heard a while ago is decently accurate. "There isn't much room for ideologies when the only thing surrounding you is salt and fish". Not to say that Dönitz wasn't a hardcore Nazi, but the war could have gone significantly different had he acted like the other bandits that ran the country.
@@masterkamen371 Dönitz was indeed one of the 'true believers' in the NSDAP. The Kriegsmarine were afflicted with some leaders of questionable skill at their actual roles: Raeder was a bit of a sycophant, Dönitz was constantly making Bambi eyes at the party, Lütjens would have made an excellent man to train and command the entire destroyer arm but was promoted beyond his training to command groups of battleships, and the list goes on. Wilhelm Marschall was sacked for being aggressive, while other good surface commanders like Otto Ciliax and Theodor Krancke were promoted to shore positions instead of continuing to utilise their skill at sea.
A little historical trivia for you: At the Nuremberg trials, Chester Nimitz actually testified on Doenitz's behalf stating that he issued the same orders to his submariners as well at the very onset of the Pacific war ;-) It was this testimony that led to this comparative lenient sentence Doenitz received
The term lenient was also used in the video. Actually, the allied "warcrimes" trials were a sham. So many confessions obtained under duress and torture, so many of the "investigators" and prosecutors being ch€€wish (too bad we have to do this word mangling but after all, this is the world of UA-cam). Justice Jackson himself even lamented their unfairness. Doenitz, Hess, Speer... these men and so many other did not deserve punishment whatsoever. By contrast, their allied counterparts were tainted with civilian blood particularly that taken from the air, again referred to in the video.
Ruhe in frieden, Kapitänleutenant Hartenstein und U-Boot Besatzung 156. And another great video, Oceanliner Designs team. This is a story that needs to be told everywhere to remind us all that humanity is and should always be above politics.
Sadness upon sadness. A very moving true story that made me speechless about the fog of war and the ambiguity of humanity. The animation and the commentary are very well done and creatively crafted.
You mentioned that Dönitz received light treatment at his war crimes trial, but failed to mention that Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the US Pacific Fleet in WWII testified on his behalf at the trial, saying that the US submarines were under the same constraints not to risk themselves. It should also be noted that the dreaded U-Boats started WWI strictly following the rules of cruiser warfare that required them to surface and board neutrals and allow crews of belligerent ships to abandon ship before sinking them. That ended when the British created Q Ships, heavily armed ships that appeared to be harmless freighters until a U-Boat surfaced. That quickly resulted in all ships being sunk on sight. With eight six-inch guns the Laconia was as heavily armed as many cruisers and a good example of why U-Boats would attack while submerged.
yep, the German navy is famously known for its courteous action. even after the Laconia incident many U-boats still give provisions and charts for the survivors (even if they don't do rescue efforts anymore). something that would hardly be ever done by other submarine forces during ww2.
I feel like not enough attention is given to the British contribution to the whole humanitarian mess surrounding submarines. Not that I intend to smear them unnecessarily, but it should not be ignored that their decisions played a large role in the merciless slaughter which followed. For the Brits, few actions were too severe to protect their merchant shipping and it forced German U-boats to undertake similar actions to ensure their own survival.
Heck, the Lusitania was a AMC at one time in ww1 which is why I suspect the U-20 made the choice it did given she was only recently returned to civilian service. Although, given the importance of sealanes, the natural advantages od submarines and Germanys shit situation (thinking Britian would be stupid to do a close blockade when it would do a distant). Submarines were probably always going to go to underwater sinkings with no warning. Thinking war should have rules is naive at best
@@SudrianTales war at sea did have surprisingly strict rules, at the age of sails at least. But then in ww1 there's no way they could keep the old rules enforced, except for the German. German Navy for some reason keep this rules despite the change in warfare nature. One famous example is the German surface raiders seeadler. This is a Windjammer (steel hulled full rigged ship) converted into commerce raider and despite capturing and sinking dozens of merchant vessels, they manage to do it with almost no casualties. Or another example in ww2 where German pilot escort stricken allied bombers out of the war zone. It's something almost uniquely reserved to the German people, because I haven't heard about allied or other axis power (the Japanese becoming notorious examples) do the same unless for a very rare occasions.
He said that he admired the U-boat captain dude. I felt that hit me hard, which shows you how much he got his respect despite his ship getting sunk by him!
This makes me think of a phrase "Attack the weapons, not the people". Once the Laconia had been sunk, by all rights a weapon as she was carrying guns(and honestly should not have had civilians onboard while armed during war), the act of the U-Boat commander to then offer aid to the people who survived is to be commended.
Yes, they had guns ... not sure who could use them effectively. This was a cruise ship with hundreds of privileged folks that had money during WWII; Italian POWs, they would switch sides later for their own benefit. It was not carrying tons of munitions, like the Lusitania was (WWI). The unrestricted warfare imposed by Hitler killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. The German Captain was an ethical man, and was, of course, criticized by the Corporal Nazi painter (no offense to painters everywhere). Compare that with the millions of civilians intentionally killed by the Nazis. After the US sank U-156 (a military sub), what did they do? They attempted to pickup the survivors. That used to be called ethics.
@@John-ih2bxFun fact: Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilian population centers full of nothing but women and children. All of the fighting age men were off fighting a war and those cities were civilian, not military, targets. Makes you wonder who the bad guys really were
Wow! A story that can bring tears to the eyes. What a man Captain Werner Hartenstein was. He deserves to be remembered. I have an unstarted 1/144 Type 7 U-boat kit here. When I get around to building it I'll build it as U-156.
@@sirridesalot6652 You could even assemble a diorama, plenty of tutorial videos if it isn't your thing, with the lifeboats in tow and the red cross flying. Would be quite a work of art 🙂 (Please make a vid if you do so!)
This video is nothing short of superb. An excellent effort on all fronts, it left me with chills at the closing sequence. Thank you for highlighting this almost forgotten part of our collective history
My uncle was one of those who died. Fought in France, 1939 - 40; posted to North Africa, 1941; rose to the rank of Company Sergeant Major in the Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment; selected for a commission, and posted back to England in 1942. Died on the 'Laconia'. All we have to remember him by is his name carved on a memorial at Brookwood Military Cemetery. RIP, Uncle Will. As for the aircrews who received military awards for the deaths they caused, and the senior officers who covered up what happened; may they all receive their just deserts.
Words are difficult to convey how vividly and poignantly this heart-breaking story has been brought back to life for modern audiences to learn. The Laconia Incident is yet again another lesson in mankind's folly, where the villains become the heroes and the heroes become the villains. The fact that those responsible for bombing the German rescue mission were never held to account for War Crimes and even rewarded in later life is vile and beyond contempt. Equally tragic is the later abandonment and loss of the U-156 crew who, while responsible for the torpedoing of Laconia in the first place, made an effort to rescue and successfully save nearly half her complement of passengers and crew. Hartenstein and his crew demonstrate the complexities and forgotten voices of those on the "wrong side of a war." The whole story brings to mind the adage: "There are no real winners in war, just survivors." Oceanliner Designs has always produced outstanding, riveting content. This story of Laconia is the most moving and your finest. Thank you.
While i agree with much of what you say i would say “on the wrong side” is not the best way to describe nazi germany… there is a reason we consider the nazi’s a horrible evil regime, their high command is at times the closes thing you can get to pure evil. So it just makes the argument feel… off when you make it out that he may not have been fighting on the wrong side… but beyond that the fact that the b-24 crew got away with essentially murder is despicable and i do agree it is one of those times in war that it shows both sides have morally grey flaws and pluses.
@@titanicgaming1148 So many American war crimes are unaccounted for.... the targeting of civilian populations in Europe and Japan with incendiaries for maximum civilian casualties.... in Dresden, Hamburg, Leipzig, Tokyo, Nagasaki, Okinawa etc... ...and the US run Rhine Meadows PoW Death Camps and the genocide of over 1m German PoWs AFTER the wars end....
Thank you for yet another wonderful vid Mike . This time on the Laconia tragedy . Your attention to detail is astounding Mike and very much appreciated . So very proud of you and your channel. You were born to do this .
Definitely agree - this is a heartbreaking and frustrating story and I can only commend your strength in tackling it, and your sensitivity in the way you told it! Remembering these types of complex and dubious incidents is so important IMO to counter the over-simplified narratives which still prevail around the history of conflict, & which often continue to shape our attitudes to this day?
During his service in WWI as a fighter pilot, Herman Goering never shot down disabled aircraft. Once they couldn't fight, they were effectively a non-combatant and he let them fly home. He was criticised for this attitude. To which he replied (to paraphrase) 'I'm a hunter, not a butcher.' I love to hear stories of this kind of comradeship and humanity during wartime, especially in this case where Captain Hartenstein was in command of such a feared and prized weapon but risked it all to show humanity. It was a cascade of communication failings, as well as an inexperienced and eager USAF crew that saw this otherwise romantic moment dashed. The fact Captain Hartenstein is still respected for this shows just how precious compassion is, even after his death. Thank you for covering this. I hadn't heard of it before and to know now... I feel better for it. Thank you.
Mike finnaaallllyyyy I knew you’d cover this eventually and I’m so glad to see this story find a spot on your channel, truly both a fascinating and tragic story made up of so many key moments- It isn’t well known enough. Thankyou for documenting it in a way only you can ❤
Yes. I've been telling people about this for years. Some people say I'm lying and this story is "Nazi propaganda". I am happy someone on UA-cam finally did a proper video about this incident.
Hartenstein seemed an honourable man. He and his crew routinely showed the shining signs of humanities light. . . Despite being thrust into dark times. Its sad he didnt get to live to see an age of peace.
Of course he wouldn't have liked to see his nation being divided in the Cold war and seeing his nation being in a political mess in the late 2010s and 2020s.
Captain Sharps First Officer was Commodore Harry Grattidge who covers the sinking in his autobiography. He was also one of the last captains of Aquitania, and technical advisor on A NIGHT TO REMEMBER, along with former Titanic Officer Joseph Boxhall
Succinct, compelling, and totally distressing. As others have said "there almost seems to be a collective desire to forget this story" It is as though there are too many stories here all together that are so harrowing; for a film maker they would be overwhelmed, yet your commentary of such a tragedy demonstrating the insanity of war is worthy of an award.
I always wondered if there was going to be a great documentary about the tragedy… so glad you’ve been able to done it. Great job on it and thank you Mike!
Among German sailors, U-Boot commanders and crew have a special aura around them to this day. Those among them who were lucky enough to survive the war, were an incredibly close-knit group. Maybe it is because of what they went through on their long patrols in their cramped and gloomy steel coffins, the odds they faced for their survival, or what dramatic effect they could achieve with a single successful shot. I only know for sure that the steel that made up their nerves was stronger than that in the hull around them.
Great work Mike, what an incredible story. Thank you Oceanliner Designs for shedding light on this. I really hope the Laconia's wreck is found someday.
For multiple reasons, Capt. Richardson was a poor officer. One who was properly trained and competent in his job would also give more consideration to the observations of his subordinates who were directly on the scene, rather than 'follow the book.' Poor communication does not provide an excuse for violating established international maritime law, which protected vessels - even enemy combatants, and even submarines - engaged in actions to rescue the survivors of lost ships. Lt. Harden shares some of his superior's guilt by not refusing to carry out a prima facie unlawful order. Well done on mentioning the Mallison article in the 1993 International Law Studies publication by the Naval War College! It and the rest Vol.65 are available online as a PDF for anyone interested in the legal minutiae of that and other cases of war conducted against merchant shipping.
So well done (as Oceanliner Designs always does). This one brought me something I didn't expect.....many, many tears. Thank you for sharing this devastating occurrence in military and maritime history.
Another sensitive and reflective presentation, thank you, Mike, and crew. The script didn't have an unnecessary word and the 3D visuals were breathtaking. Lovely rendering of the B-24 too. Thank you, your work is of tertiary educational quality. It was indeed a war crime, the fog of war is basically impossible to claim in this instance. It's uncomfortable when war crimes are committed by 'our guys', but the stories need to be told, the lessons learned, and steps taken.
It wasn't a warcrime. A U-boat doesn't get protections under international law unless it takes some pretty drastic action to disarm itself, which was not done here.
At first I somewhat understood the stress the crew of the bomber were feeling when making the decision to bomb it but coming back twice after that is just horrible
@@peterwolf8395 War crimes have been committed on all sides. On german side aircraft pilots did this in starting in the very beginning of the war during attacks on poland.
G'day Mike, Yes, this certainly was one of the most 'out of character' incidents of the entire 'Battle of the Atlantic'. Many years ago when I began my journey to become a military historian, I'd read several books and archival documents that referred to 'The Laconia Order'. I did, finally come across a dry, emotionless accounts of the incidents surrounding the loss of the Laconia and did some further reading. I quickly sensed that those who had penned the 'official' reports had displayed a strange need to avoid minute details or to apportion blame at any level. Nothing I knew about this incident, before today, had any great impact upon me except, of course, for the tragic loss of life. You and your team's outstanding efforts to bring the Laconia sinking saga to life, via the amazing images you've created, have totally driven home the extreme tragedy; the sense of foreboding, then the suffering of the crews of both vessels plus the luckless, Laconia passengers. The tiny proportion of survivors of the Laconia tragedy were fortunate indeed. Like all of your visual depictions of the grand era of commercial seafaring, your images are stunningly beautiful and have that unmistakable feeling of historical accuracy; even though shipping of that period is not one of my specialist areas of study... till now. Throughout the history of WW2 there are, from all sides, isolated tales of remarkable humanity; that sense of this genuinely worldwide conflict did bring out the worst and best of what it means to be human. The Laconia saga is, perhaps, the story that best illustrates these mixed, conflicting emotions that came from the complex, overall story of the second world war. No matter what your story content might be in the future, please continue to stick to the truly 'high bar' you've set for yourself and your team mates. You've truly taken the illustration of historic UA-cam videos to much higher level. Thank you and cheers, Bill H.
It only appears "out of character" because you grew up on a steady diet of allied postwar propaganda, about vile nazis acting despicable and valiant allies acting chivalrous. This whole incident is far more truthful in displaying the characteristics of the factions involved.
@@InternetStudiesGuy disobeying orders, not from Nixon , Bush,. Or Churchill.... But Disobeying Direct Orders from Adolf Hitler MEANT A SUREFIRE TORTUROUS DEATH!
I knew of this incident from very young because my Grandmother's brother was one of the survivors. He died in 1993 but left a series of 1963 Sunday Express articles with personal notes about how this war crime was covered up when it was exposed at the Nuremberg trials as part of Admiral Donitz's defence
@@AndersonvillePete-xc1tm if by describing the truth you mean pretending like allies never did anything bad then youre just as much brainwashed as many others that think the nazis were the only bad guys during the greates (read: most aweful) war in human history.
I love this channel, bringing back these beautiful ship back to life and giving them their own personalities. We all appreciate the amount of research and efforts you put in all your vids❤❤❤
Mike, your little hobby has surely blossomed here into what should be award winning presentations.... Very few could ever hope to do as good a job as you continue to do here.
Job well done! Your usage of both real and computer generated footage is very well done, and tasteful. It's not over the top and in your face. You have such a classy channel.
A fascinating story told so well, yet again. Oceanliner Designs is guaranteed to produce quality documentary content. Mike’s dedication to research and the spirit of true journalism - explaining historic events in a way any layperson can understand, enjoy, and appreciate. I’ve had a career in writing and sub-editing for 35 years, and the scripts are always beautifully crafted works I’d be proud to have produced. Plus Mike’s an excellent presenter who is measured but also natural and genuine. And so wonderful to hear an Aussie voice! It’s also nice to see the partnerships he has with people like the Titanic Honour and Glory guys. No competition, just people with a shared passion enjoying themselves. I’m really enthusiastic about Mike’s work and wish him every success.
Very well done, Mike. An excellent treatise on a little-known and not well understood tragedy of WWII. I was considering doing a post on my blog about the Laconia incident, but I believe you have done a far better coverage of this event than I could have done. Hats off to you, my friend! Kindest regards, Kerry McCoy Ships of State Studio
And that my friends is Humanity! My uncle's dad Leonard Valdez, was in first Division Big Red One, armor, and almost everybody in his division were killed by the German armor. The German Medics fell back and gave life-saving medical help to him and a few other American survivors and tagged them and left them for the Americans. Their actions saved the lives of the Americans. That has always made a hell of a positive impact on me!
I recognized the name "Laconia," so I wrongly assumed I had heard the story of its sinking before; I was completely wrong. Thank you for taking the time to explain the whole story, even the rather mundane bits at the beginning and end. As an American, I am well aware that we are generally not the "good guys" in any past or present conflict, but this story was genuinely shocking. I can honestly understand the American bomber firing upon the German U-Boat (as horrific, unnecessary, ridiculous, and inexcusable as it was), but the part that made me lose my mind was the fact that there was no investigation into the situation afterward, and no one was held accountable! The airmen should have been stripped of the award they received for allegedly sinking a u-boat, at least (because the u-boat didn't actually sink!). The reason this is so frustrating is that we see the same thing continue to happen today. People in positions of leadership are not held accountable for breaking their own rules--but enforce them on others. If American commanders aren't going to be punished for ordering the killing of civilians, then German commanders shouldn't be punished, either. If we stoop to the same level of our enemies, then we are even more evil than they.
@@MaticTheProto I didn't say it was justified; I said it was understandable. The fog of war, the low fuel, the lack of communication, the confusing situation unfolding below, etc., all contributed to the bomber crew making a bad decision. Doesn't mean it was a complete accident, nor does it mean they should have gotten off Scott-free. The point I was making was that it is far more terrifying that no one investigated the incident afterwards than the fact that the incident happened in the first place, because that indicates a breakdown of the moral fabric of the entire military, not just a single bomber crew.
What amazes me most is the difference in the behavior of the British-Polish crew on the one hand and the Germans on the other. The former trapped the Italians in a sinking ship until every person of their own was safe, stabbing and shooting the desperate men and even hacking their hands with axes as they tried to escape the sharks into lifeboats, while the latter indiscriminately rescued anyone they could find, Italian allies, British enemies and even the Polish guards, although they knew how those had acted towards the Italians.
The Allied side is atrociously white washed, and the Axis is buried under black legend. Over all, the Germans were the best behaved of all the powers involved, and this runs contrary to the black legend the Allied order needs to uphold to maintain power.
almost like the winning side set up a narrative, not only did the allies committed most of the friendly fire incidents, they committed warcrimes left and right too
Those German submariners behaved humanely, but it must be remembered that their comrades on land were far more brutal; the German occupation of Poland killed millions.
@@revanofkorriban1505 You're comparing the crews of a few dozen with the actions of military groups that collectively numbered multiple millions. There was innumerable squads, platoons, and battalions of Germán foot troops who where decent people - and overshadowed by the divisions and political paramilitary elements whos actions disgraced the rest.
@@eisaatana96 2:1 Bachelor of Arts degree in History. My dissertation titled “On the Road to Victory: The Female Narrative of the Second World War in the Womens Auxiliary Air Force, Air Transport Service, Women’s Royal Naval Service” graduated from University of Southampton in 2017
What sort of WW2 historian hasn't heard of the Laconia Incident and the HUGE fallout from it as well as it's impact in legal proceedings in post war trials?
@@laratheplanespotter So many American war crimes are unaccounted for.... the targeting of civilian populations in Europe and Japan with incendiaries for maximum civilian casualties.... in Dresden, Hamburg, Leipzig, Tokyo, Nagasaki, Okinawa etc... ...and the US run Rhine Meadows PoW Death Camps and the genocide of over 1m German PoWs AFTER the wars end....
Wonderful documentary. Yours is one of the best channels on UA-cam, no question. Thanks to you and other outstanding channels on YT I rarely watch live TV now.
My Father was in the crew of the liner SS Washington on September 7, 1939, when the rescued the crew of the Olivegrove after she’d been sunk by the U-33. The U-33 had sent a distress call and stood by for 11 hours to protect the crew until the Washington arrived. The entire crew of Olivegrove (including the parakeet) survived.
This is such a touching story! I am blown away in your story telling and the visuals, I was almost brought to tears from what these people went through... It really illustrates how terrible war can be and all sides where the victims of such tragedy... I love this video so much this deserves some kind of award!!!
It just goes to show how history is written by the winners. Had the roles been reversed the pilots and the base commander would have definitely faced war crimes charges.
Something I learned from an old history teacher of mine is that “it’s not a war crime as long as your side wins the war.” Something that is unfortunately demonstrated here.
7:09 my grandmother was a farmer's daughter during WWII And she had several Italian P,O,Ws working her farm, she said that most of them HATED Mussolini (one of them even said "Fu@K Mussolini" more than once) and were very good farm workers, with the war in effect being over for them they seemed to enjoy the relative peace of a farm and one of them even taught her to speak Italian.
@@moosifer3321some italian POWs were sent all the way to australia, and apparently about 1 in 5 of them came back afterwards - one of them was my grandfather. returned to italy in 1946, was back by 1949, brought his wife and their baby out by 1950
You can't exactly take to heart the word of a forced slave laborer on enemy's land while he's in captivity. That's what the angloids expected him to say so he said it to survive.
Thoroughly captivating account of this incident. Expertly written with a perfect voice for narration. So very well done, every video on this channel just exceeds the high bar of the last. Easily among the best content on UA-cam. Can’t wait for the next video!
Awful story but compellingly told, thank you for shedding light on this fascinating subject, Mike. You are providing a truly great service to history with this channel, and as always, well done.
That's humanity in a nutshell. In WW2, some Allied commanders, soldiers etc. were more monstrous than the Axis commanders, soldiers etc. It's not a simple, automatically good or evil situation.
Most U-boat commanders were not bad people, I would say that some were great people, like Hartenstein, and others were just average soldiers, politics aside. Only 1 U-boat commander was ever charged with war crimes during the entire war. All in all they have a pretty clean reputation.
@@beefboss1149 Well, most of them didn't make it out of the war to face any charges in the first place. Like 75% of U-boats were destroyed during the war.
@@TheTonyMcD that’s true, I forgot to take that into account. But even still there are few documented cases of crimes taking place and also after torpedoing ships, which were for the most part in convoys, they would not be able to carry out any crimes. But you’re right there were likely undocumented cases that commanders took to their Atlantic graves. It’s just my personal opinion that most commanders were not horrendous people.
A brilliant retelling of the Laconia tragedy. Sadly in war, these mistakes take place. It's at such time we need men to think of each other as fellow humans and be the example of why we should try rather than shouldn't.
This video has been a long time coming, and it has been well worth the wait! Your documentaries are always a masterclass and keep getting better. Thanks for all of you and your team's work!
My second cousin, three times removed was one of the casualties on board the Laconia. Cyril I. Pyror - 1st Class RN Stoker. He died of exposure (although more likely his injuries or being attacked by sharks) while in lifeboat 2.
I also had a family member who was, I now realize, on the Laconia. My father told me that his brother was on a ship sailing back to England from South Africa when they were torpedoed by a German submarine. He explained that the submarine stayed with them and fed them until help arrived. My uncle became a POW until released by the Americans when they invaded north Africa. This all falls into place from what is now known as the Laconian affair. I am interested on how you found out that your cousin was in a particular lifeboat and unfortunately died from exposure, as I would like learn more about my uncle.
3D modelling has always been a little hobby of mine, I always awe at seeing others excellent work and appreciate the time & patience that went into it.
It's interesting to note that the same italian submarine that took part in the rescue mission did a similar thing a few years before, after sinking a belgian freighter the italians rescued the survivors and sailed for an epic voyage to a neutral harbor to release the survivors
My great uncle was an officer on a Dutch merchant ship during the 2nd world war. He was at sea when the Netherlands were occupied and by consequence Liverpool became his new home port. He also sailed on the infamous route to Murmansk, and lost quite some friends and classmates from his Nautical College to German submarines. But despite all that, he held the Germans in high regard and was always referring to them as "decent people". Guess that someone with his experience was entitled to say such a thing.
My grand-uncle was second-in-command on a German U-Boat. He was send on a suicide mission and knew that he'd likely not return. He told my grandfather "If I make it back, I'll become an Admiral". He died at age 21. I still have the correspondence between my grandfather and the British Admiralty.
The Laconia incident was a blatant warcrime. The pilot of the bomber that dropped the depth charges should have been able to distinguish the lifeboats that the ship was towing behind it from the low attitude it was flying at, and should almost certainly have known that it was undertaking a rescue operation once those life baots were spotted, but the crew was new, wanted to prove themselves and what better way to prove yourself then killing a German U-boat during a period in the war where the U-boat fleet was very dangerous still.
@@jfranklinlewis Since the evidence is clear that they should have seen the sub red cross signals and the boats getting towed behind it, i have every reason to assume the worst. This has nothing to do with making hard choices and everything to do with terrible choices.
the body cam movement has change my opinion of most historical "facts" and the bias of peoples memory add to this propaganda efforts of all sides during and after events warcrime claims become difficult to prove
that was a war crime. There is nothing controversial regarding that. Just say it as it is. If it had been carried out by Germany, it is a war crime, but because it was carried out by the allies, it was controversial.
History is written by the victors, so it’s always makes them seen in more of a positive light than they should be while demonizing the losing side. Adds the the lie that the so called “good guys” conveniently always win.
Agreed every Nation did War Crimes some more some less but it's not Black and white... And I hate that many Nations still try to hide and downplay what they did... Manly the Japanese, Americans and I would say to a lesser degree the UK @@RS-nk7bd
Thank you for this episode, which has all the qualities of a TV documentary (and then some). I'm watching this from Germany and have done a bit of research into submarine warfare (not least because of "Das Boot"). Hartenstein is an example of what we call "Anstand" in German. Even though as a Nazi officer he is of course to be condemned, he shows that particular cognitive dissonance that was often seen in WW II and which meant that beyond (or amidst) the killing and murder, decency and humanity could flourish in certain areas. All the more tragic that his incredible efforts to limit the damage were destroyed by a misunderstanding or simply stupid recklessness. Thank you again for preparing this story for us today and making it understandable.
Ever since I first heard about this story I'ver maintained that Hartenstein and his men were damn heroes. Also good job in the German pronounciation :P
Just stumbled across this channel. Absolutely FANTASTIC!!!! Some people just don't have that voice to narrate but this man has totally got it. Its made my day finding this channel. Keep it coming, SUBSCRIBED!!!!!!
I’m afraid there were many acts like this in times of war. Some people will carry out orders no matter the circumstances and others will do the right thing. War can bring out the Best and Worst in people. Thanks for another great video and Rest Peacefully all those involved in this tragedy.
Very true. Specially considering that there were actually German sub commanders, aswell as Japanese and US sub commanders who did order machine gunning of survivors, in stark contrast to what Hartenstein did.
My father was on board Laconia when it was sunk. He was eventually rescued by the French Cruiser 'Gloire' and taken to a POW camp near Casablanca prisoner of war. Eventually liberated by American troops. He never spoke in disparaging terms about the Americans involvement in the incident.
Oh my gosh, every single one of my favorite UA-camrs all my subscribies put on new videos today. It's the best day ever. You're the last one the most important and I'm so excited so no pressure. This better be great.
It is. I've heard this story more than a few times and while it still gets to me, I've become so numb to all these horrific stories. It's just it takes a piece of humanity every time you tell it or hear it. This is a particularly tough one, though I can't imagine what it was like for the Americans in the end realizing what had happened, I just there's no side they wins here. such is war.
@@willowhofmann7409agree, this is the first time hearing about this one but i’ve read, seen and heard a quite a few horrible tragedies about the war. Another excellent case to prove that not everyone hates each other, and that orders from command and the decision if whether or not to follow them can either bring fame or infamy.
Another interesting sub rescue story is the SS Rakuyō Maru. She was an infamous "Hell Ship" full of Australian and British POWs sunk by the USS Pampanito who coordinated a rescue attempt of the survivors. There is a video interviewing her crew on YT and a reunion in the 90s with crew and POWs, it's interesting and tragic.
And the sinking of that Japanese transport was just one, there were others. To have suffered internment in a Japanese POW camp only to die by friendly fire on a 'hellship' is tragic.
Amazing documentary - well done! Despite the opinion that every German was a ruthless Nazi, this video shows that there WERE men of honour and compassion, and that they were simply doing their job. Just brilliant!
Yeah, nuance seems to be one of the first victims of war, alas? 😢 And past propaganda seems to constantly continue to skew our understanding of what happened in the past, esp. around conflicts! The way that skewed understanding of the past colours political decisions now & affects whether the public supports or opposes them is fascinating to me, and often very worrying too. I feel like historians have a huge ethical obligation... Always appreciate educator channels like this who do more indepth dives and highlight some of the more "inconvenient truths" of history. Not without viewer kickback either, I imagine!
Sailors tend to have a sense of chivalry towards other sailors because they're all aware of what the sea can do. The German Navy was probably the least Nazified service, on the opposite end of the spectrum from the Waffen SS.
Yes. I originally began uploading videos about this incident after an argument I got into online with a guy who said all Germans deserved to get killed simply because they were German. It was in the comment section in a documentary about the firebombing of Hamburg. The woman being interviewed was 6 at the time of the bombing. A guy said she deserved to die for what Germany did. I said she was a 6 year old girl and had nothing to do with Nazi atrocities. He said all the Germans were part of it and evil. I argued most Germans were regular people. Most soldiers were regular soldiers. And a lot of Germans were good people. I asked him "Do American women and children deserve to be raped or burned to death because of what Bush did in Iraq? Because of Abu Ghraib and other crimes?" At one point he started repeating the wartime propaganda lies about how all the uboat crews always would machine gun any survivors. I said that was not true. That never happened. They were only ever accused of that once, and it was unlikely it occurred. But a lot of people said the uboats would assist them with food, water, and directions to the nearest land, plus on several occasions would tow them toward shore. He said that was Nazi propaganda. So I looked up this incident, but found no videos on UA-cam. So I ended up having to find videos and upload them myself. Since then I have been messaging creators on UA-cam suggesting they make videos about this subject. A couple have mentioned this subject or done short videos about this. But this is the first proper in depth full length documentary about the Laconia Incident anybody has made. Oceanliner Designs is now on my top five favorite UA-cam creators.
i appreciate your intelligent post! you might read, as well. Das Boot, by Lothar Gunther Bucheim, and Iron Coffins by Herbert Warner, or Werner. i find inaccuracies in recently written books about history, so i look for older ones. Band Of Brothers is, of course, excellent. getting away from the ones upon which movies are based is where the learning begins, of course.
In truth, very few of the officer corps of the u boat service were Nazis. Likewise it wasn't common to find many fanatical die-for-hitler types in the common crews of the Kriegsmarine. They were mostly men given a difficult job to do which they took no real pleasure in. But they had to do it anyway.
Thanks for explaining me the origine of the U-boot "no mercy" behavior. It is always fascinating to see the abuse/omission in the winner's storytelling.
its actually is taught if you ever studied ww2 in the uk on a acedemic level, its commonly taught britian caused it... britian caused alot of the stuff that happened to it, like the blitz was techinally caused by the actions of the RAF, neither actions are justifiable but they happened and is taught tho he is slightly wrong about the uboat wolfpacks, they actually came before radar was widely used to counter uboats, its just a very very succesful way of dealing with planes, commonly they had 2-3 subs btw
A great video, I like your work! But just because I am a huge nerd about U-boats I have to note, that you are using a Type VIIC model there to portray U-156, which in reality was a Type IXC. That was the larger oceangoing U-boat of the Kriegsmarine.
I heard that there was an old saying in World War II. I don’t know if it’s true though. “When the Germans fly over, the British duck. When the British flyover, the Germans duck. When the Americans fly over EVERYBODY ducks!!
You can easily extend that saying to nowadays aswell the American A 10 is so underdeveloped that the Brits litterary forbade the Americans to use the thing in their zones in Afghanistan as the damn thing started racking up blue on blue incidents. The only good thing is the gun of that thing (American priorities am I right?) so f it if the pilot has to peer out of his cockpit with binoculars to identify vehicles on the ground.
Mike, I really enjoy your channel. Thank you for telling this underrepresented story. No doubt, the standard history books in the States gloss over this shame to focus on some of the more heroic aspects of the war. It is good for people to know the story; and that in war, even “good guys” do terrible things.
Watched this with Jack the animater my grandson last night Im very proud of him Mike you have an excellent team ,another exceptional piece of work well w
Thankyou so much! Your grandson is extremely talented and I am lucky to count him as a friend! Sending my best from Australia!
~Mike
Animation was off the charts this video!
28:27. The message was intercepted by the British intelligence service, who decided to ignore it.
This information was purposely withheld when the British gave the American bomber crew the coordinates for the U-Boat.
The British are equally to blame for this event.
The stories are great but to me I won't watch the video with just the story and the animation is simply awesome in these videos, Thank you
I was wondering who does the animations!
Now I know, and he does a excellent job!
🍻
On October 15, 1940 the Italian submarine Cappellini (the same that under a different captain is mentioned in this wonderful video) sunk a Belgian freighter, the Kabalo. Capitano di Corvetta Salvatore Todaro decided to rig the boat with the survivors to its ship and proceeded to tow them to safety to the Azores. He would be severely criticized by his superiors for endangering his sub but famously answered that he did it because “I felt the weight of two thousand years of civilization on my shoulders”.
“I felt the weight of two thousand years of civilization on my shoulders”.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_Todaro_(naval_officer)
American says: we don,t have that, so boom.
Oh! This is a remarkable story, God bless the sweet hearted Capitano and crew. After beating each other to pieces, it seems that some men come to see enemy nationals as brother mother father and sister and probably his own self in another body.
@@kettle_of_chris yes, magnificent. This world would be poorer without the people of Italy.
If Captain Hartenstein and fellow u-boat commanders who risked themselves to save crew, passengers, civilians and PoWs have actual memorial/grave at home I hope they are well tended to and receive flowers once in a while. People who show that level of compassion even risking themselves whilst at war deserve to be honored.
Captain Hartenstein and crew "still at sea".
Like the overwhelming percentage of German submariners in WWII, Hartensteins's grave is the hull of his sunken boat. U-156 was lost with its entire crew on 8 March 1943, sunk by an American PBY.
Well, meant if they ever made a memorial for him or anything like that. Sometimes people make graves even without the body afaik.
Since the crew of U-156 is still "on patrol" they're more than likely memorialized on the Möltenort U-Boat Memorial
As a german, i don´t know about any memorials here that honour an individual soldier or a crew, and i highly doubt there are any. What you´ll find here are bronze plates in cities and small communities (sometimes with a statue), that list all the dead soldiers from both world wars which were from that particular city or community.
It's not often I get a reason to weep over the loss of a German officer that fought during WW2, and I'm not quite sure how to feel about the fact that I just did weep about 30 seconds before I started this comment. THIS is what we need more of in the world. Personal stories like this from multiple sides, not just "Germany bad, America good." This is peak UA-cam and I can not thank you enough for bringing this content to me.
When confederate General Orry Main (Patrick Swayze) answered his cousin Captain Charles Main (Lewis Smith) in the 1986 ABC TV mini series "North & South Book ll", when Charles questioned him on the wisdom of mercy to their common prewar friend from the union side, General George Hazard (James Read), he said:
"Compassion always makes sense."
Sometimes the military commanders were much more honorable than High Command and especially the SS who were much more fanatical
So many American war crimes are unaccounted for.... the targeting of civilian populations in Europe and Japan with incendiaries for maximum civilian casualties.... in Dresden, Hamburg, Leipzig, Tokyo, Nagasaki, Okinawa etc...
...and the US run Rhine Meadows PoW Death Camps and the genocide of over 1m German PoWs AFTER the wars end....
Step one: brainwash Americans to believe all people of one race, nation, or ideology are less than human.
Step two: brainwash Americans that a second people of a race, nation, or ideology are less than human.
Step three: continue as necessary.
If you can convince people that one group are inhuman, you can convince people that any number of humans are inhuman. It's how you manipulate populations into war, genocide, and oppression to begin with.
It's the high command and leaders of violent ideologies and nations that need to be held accountable, not those conscripted by force into their membership.
@@DaysofElijah317 Did you really see the video?
This rescue operation was led by the commander of the German submarine fleet Karl Dönitz. So your statement makes no sense at all.
No army of that time taught its soldiers higher moral values than the German one. And this happened in all ranks and especially in the SS. In the SS, for example, not even the personal cupboards were locked. This does not exist in any army to this day.
In the pay book, which every soldier had as his ID, there were “The 10 Commandments of the German Soldier” and everyone had to be able to recite them by heart.
"1. The German soldier fights gallantly for the victory of his people. Cruelties and useless destruction are unworthy of him.
3. No enemy who surrenders may be killed, not even the irregular and the spy. Thieves receive their just punishment through the courts.
4. Prisoners of war may not be mistreated or insulted. Weapons, plans and records must be removed. Nothing else may be taken from their belongings.
6. The red cross is inviolable. Wounded enemies must be treated humanely. Medical personnel and military chaplains may not be hindered in their medical or pastoral activities.
7. The civilian population is invulnerable. The soldier may not loot or vandalize. Historical monuments and buildings that serve worship, art, science or charity are to be given special respect. Natural resources and services from the population may only be claimed for compensation on the orders of superiors.
10. Violations of the above orders in official matters are punishable. Enemy violations of the principles listed under 1-8 must be reported. Retaliatory measures are only permissible on the orders of higher troop command."
You can choose the other points yourself. No army in the world had higher moral values than the German one.
Unfortunately, armies like the American one never adopted these morals and continue to shoot at civilians and bomb entire countries into rubble to this day.
"America defeated Hitler, with Hitler"
Mahatma Gandhi
It's sad what lies there are about the "Laconia Order" on Wikipedia. Disgusting historical falsification. But the lie will never win. Even now, when the last witnesses are dying, the truth lives in their children and grandchildren.
America is doing exactly that to this day and their friends the British and French are dutifully following along. It always takes a new "Hitler" to turn entire countries into ashes. Yesterday it was Binladen and Hussein, today it is Putin. Exporting suffering and misery into the world does not make you a better person. I hope that's enough to get them to direct more criticism at the living rather than the dead in the future.
Greetings from Germany. For a world without war🌄
There is no better a tribute to a lost ship, an act of wartime humanity, or act of immense bravery than to be documented in one of your videos. The animations are better than some 15 year old movies, the narration is well worded and relaxing, and the storytelling is superb. Respectful and informative, this channel has come to be my favourite maritime documentary source.
What high praise! Thanks so much!
Agreed 💯
@@OceanlinerDesigns Well deserved Mike, well deserved.
@@OceanlinerDesigns100% your the best channel out there on this topic.
And you even dress the part, I could see you being crew on a ship (if ships hired white folk that is)
I second this. Whenever his documentaries pop up, I can’t help but click.
Incredible jaw-dropping documentary about the Laconia, U-156, and this sadly forgotten part of history. Absolutely one of the best videos produced thus far!
Thankyou so much, I'm really glad you enjoyed it!
It is less forgotten now. Winners don't like to tell anything that put their in bad or ex enemy in good light.
Ww2 should been long ago neutral subject but it us still used as a propaganda. Russia is good example of that how twist whole history.
It's about time this incident was recognised as a war crime. Well done.
Wouldnt have happened had the germans not been indiscriminately attacking ships. War is a war crime.
Anyone who fires on an obvious red cross visable from the air and civilians in lifeboats is comiting a war crime as stated in the geneva convention.Yanks are no exeption!@@wilsonpickett3881
@@wilsonpickett3881what decades of Zionist propaganda does to a Westerner
The Bengal famine of 1943 was an anthropogenic famine in the Bengal province of British India (present-day Bangladesh, West Bengal and eastern India) during World War II. An estimated 2.1-3 million people died,[A] in the Bengal region (present-day Bangladesh and West Bengal), from starvation, malaria and other diseases aggravated by malnutrition, population displacement, unsanitary conditions and lack of health care. Millions were impoverished as the crisis overwhelmed large segments of the economy and catastrophically disrupted the social fabric. Eventually, families disintegrated; men sold their small farms and left home to look for work or to join the British Indian Army, and women and children became homeless migrants, often travelling to Calcutta or other large cities in search of organised relief.
@@wilsonpickett3881 that horrible event became one of the greatest political and military embarrassments to the Allied Powers, saving Admiral Donitz from possibly being executed at the Nuremberg Trials. It indirectly showed that the Allies were not immune to committing war crimes as well, and the Allies tried to cover it up after a few years in 1945 amid the fact that the Liberator bomber's actions killed more people during the rescue than the sinking of the Laconia ship. (Note - many articles have come out about this event just last year stating this)
Hartenstein tried valiantly to prevent any attack on his ship while helping to rescue the survivors, similar to how the Captain of the Admiral Hipper tried to save the crew of the HMS Glowworm in 1940. The problem that people cannot understand is there was still human civility & honor between some elements of the Axis and Allied Naval forces. Take, for example, how the Japanese respected the crew of the USS Johnston at Leyte Gulf and the actions of Admiral Heye respecting the captain & crew of the HMS Glowwom's heroic last stand.
Despite what you might believe now in 2024, many within the US administration, including FDR himself back then, believe the Americans didn’t want what occurred during the Laconia Incident to be revealed, as they’d be viewed as the villains. Whether or not the Red Cross flags were visible from the air is unclear. However, Hartenstein had made all necessary efforts to relay to the Allies that his intentions were no longer to attack.
Tragically, the response wasn't acknowledged and thus was a close repeat of what happened to Wilhelm Gustoff later in 1945 by the Russians. Russia didn't attempt to save the stricken survivors due to their thirst for revenge and, like the Cossacks during 1814, decided to humiliate their enemy. Yet, England and other allied nations tried to save them by sending destroyers to the scene because they knew it would stir a lot of PR backlash among the public in their nations, like what would occur for the Laconia Incident.
At the end of the day, there are more people who support Mike's, my, and other people's views of this tragedy vs. those who support your POV of this event. I would recommend you watch Yarnhub's video about the Glowworm and see how NOT ALL Germans were as bloodthirsty monsters as you would think. And this is coming from a fellow American with German ancestry dating back to the early German Empire.
There almost seems to be a collective desire to forget this story. As amazing as it is, it is one that I hear far less than other stories about ships. Being as appalling as it is amazing, it is no wonder why. (Not to mention it contradicts the desire to paint every last German back then as evil.)
Best ww2 quote is:
"When British dropped bombs, Axis hid.
When Germans dropped bombs, Allies hid.
When Americans dropped bombs, everyone hid"
World War II was portrayed in the immediate postwar years, as a perfectly moral war. This meant that a lot of bad or unfortunate things about the war were swept under the rug.
If you want a similar situation, look at reports of pillaging by American, British and Canadian soldiers in France and the Low Countries in 1944-1945, and in Germany following the end of the war. They were every bit as bad as the German soldiers who had occupied those areas previously. Castles, mansions and other 'high-value' residences were looted for jewelry, paintings and other valuable items that could be carried. In some cases, Allied soldiers even broke into crypts to steal jewels off corpses of people who died decades, if not centuries before the war.
@@AverageAlien My mother's family is from a town in Switzerland called Schaffhausen, which was mistakenly bombed by the American Air Force. But Roosevelt immediately apologized and paid reparations. This incident I think raises the question of whether or not the American Air Force is guilty of bad judgement or a war crime. Also, the British made a crucial mistake putting 1700 POWs on a ship with only a few hundred guards and crew. That inevitably led to paranoia and abuse. Painting Germans as uniquely evil I think prevents us from misunderstanding fascism. Any capitalist country in severe decline is at risk, including the USA in 2023.
@@stanleyrogouski Could not have put it better myself
We live in a world where acknowledging that the Nazis built good roads is a pro-holocaust opinion. And more and more, that sentiment isn't applied to just the Nazis.
initial set of events was a tragedy, but the fact that no one was held accountable for this afterwards is flat criminal.
if "just following orders": wasnt an excuse enough for the nazis, then it shouldn't have been for those that gave the order to attack the survivors.
this needs to be made into a film without any diversion from the facts so that the public knows the history
There is a movie online about it. Not the highest budget but worth a watch.
Exactly
@@moosifer3321 It tries to whitewash the Americans, by alleging that they bombed it by mistake and never knew there were rescued survivors on board.
The film would require 40+ minutes on the Holocaust.
@@karlgustav999What does the Holocaust have to do with this story?
I salute you Werner Hartenstein, his crew and others involved in the rescue. You showed there is light in darkness during your time.
As an Irish person what the German Captain actions that day should be known today as being above & beyond the call of duty . He should be recognized for the action he took on that day .
War is hell ,humanitarian action is the highest act of humankind .
This and the sinking of the RMS Lancastria sinking have always fascinated me, weird how both were commanded under Rudolph Sharp.
The fact that up to 7000 people died in that first sinking and yet somehow the captain survived definitely had my eyes popping?! 😳 (Esp. in an era where the ethos of captain being last off a sinking ship was usually taken pretty seriously...?)
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 Whilst Captain of the Lancastria, he was very fortunate to survive. Plenty of info out on this event but the basics is that the vessel was evacuating troops from France in 1940 and was stationary when hit. All ships leaving France were pretty well crammed with troops as "Normal" rules went out of the window. Lancastria sank quite quickly. Despite being quite close to shore the loss of life was immense.
@@timgray5231 Thanks; that makes sense. The sheer scale of the chaos, loss and horror of those mid-1940 evacuations from France (not only Dunkirk but also operations like Lancastria's) is something I find it difficult to get my head around... Just so extreme.
The way information became public (or didn't) was so disrupted at the time too, through war & censorship & people movements... Difficult for the crew's families to have to wait so long for official confirmation of what had happened.
Omg I’d never heard of Lancastria. I’ll check it out after I’m done with this docu!
Lancastria has a Government D notice attached. Runs out in 2040. Then the truth of how many people perished will be finally known. My uncle survived this tragedy.
Cpt. Hartenstein's extended efforts to do the ethical thing despite the harsh context of war really have my admiration. See also his actions following the later sinking of the Quebec City too - this seems to have been his consistent character?
The fact that the US plane's illegal bombing action directly led to the "Laconia order" and ALL German uboats being forbidden to even try and rescue survivors of ship sinkings means that Harden's crew and commander share responsibility not just for those they directly killed by bombing the Laconia survivors, but who knows how many other civilian casualties who had to abandon ships subsequent to later submarine attacks, who would not be picked up for fear of retaliation.
The Allies tried to use the Laconia order against the Germans at Nuremberg trials but frankly, I feel like it is the Americans they should have been prosecuting on that one 😢 Thank you for telling this story, it must have been heartbreaking to research & recount, but I think it's super-important to memorialize.
They tried to use the Laconia order against Doenitz who issued it. This led the American Admiral Nimitz to testify on Doenitz's behalf at his trial.
If you're interested in this kind of thing I'd suggest looking up the "cap arcona."
It's the traditional Prussian military idea of honor. There were a lot of men across the Wehrmacht who still held to tradition in spite of Nazi ideology. Some of them because they had served under the Kaiser and refused to do any differently, others were raised with those ideals and were strong enough to stick to them. Hartenstein was clearly one such man
@@filmandfirearmsIndeed. There were even some high standing Wehrmacht officers like Rommel and Dönitz who kept some of that Prussian discipline. While Rommel was disgraced and forced to kill himself, Dönitz even succeeded Hitler as the leader of Germany for a few weeks. After all of that, the Allies couldn't even charge him for crimes against humanity. As such, instead of the usual death penalty, he only got 10 years in prison.
The Kriegsmarine was kind of the least Nazi of the three branches of the Wehrmacht. A quote I've heard a while ago is decently accurate. "There isn't much room for ideologies when the only thing surrounding you is salt and fish".
Not to say that Dönitz wasn't a hardcore Nazi, but the war could have gone significantly different had he acted like the other bandits that ran the country.
@@masterkamen371 Dönitz was indeed one of the 'true believers' in the NSDAP. The Kriegsmarine were afflicted with some leaders of questionable skill at their actual roles: Raeder was a bit of a sycophant, Dönitz was constantly making Bambi eyes at the party, Lütjens would have made an excellent man to train and command the entire destroyer arm but was promoted beyond his training to command groups of battleships, and the list goes on. Wilhelm Marschall was sacked for being aggressive, while other good surface commanders like Otto Ciliax and Theodor Krancke were promoted to shore positions instead of continuing to utilise their skill at sea.
A little historical trivia for you: At the Nuremberg trials, Chester Nimitz actually testified on Doenitz's behalf stating that he issued the same orders to his submariners as well at the very onset of the Pacific war ;-) It was this testimony that led to this comparative lenient sentence Doenitz received
The term lenient was also used in the video. Actually, the allied "warcrimes" trials were a sham. So many confessions obtained under duress and torture, so many of the "investigators" and prosecutors being ch€€wish (too bad we have to do this word mangling but after all, this is the world of UA-cam). Justice Jackson himself even lamented their unfairness. Doenitz, Hess, Speer... these men and so many other did not deserve punishment whatsoever. By contrast, their allied counterparts were tainted with civilian blood particularly that taken from the air, again referred to in the video.
Ruhe in frieden, Kapitänleutenant Hartenstein und U-Boot Besatzung 156. And another great video, Oceanliner Designs team. This is a story that needs to be told everywhere to remind us all that humanity is and should always be above politics.
Sadness upon sadness. A very moving true story that made me speechless about the fog of war and the ambiguity of humanity. The animation and the commentary are very well done and creatively crafted.
Good man, I would like to know what you personally think of the German armed forces. best regards
You mentioned that Dönitz received light treatment at his war crimes trial, but failed to mention that Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the US Pacific Fleet in WWII testified on his behalf at the trial, saying that the US submarines were under the same constraints not to risk themselves.
It should also be noted that the dreaded U-Boats started WWI strictly following the rules of cruiser warfare that required them to surface and board neutrals and allow crews of belligerent ships to abandon ship before sinking them. That ended when the British created Q Ships, heavily armed ships that appeared to be harmless freighters until a U-Boat surfaced. That quickly resulted in all ships being sunk on sight. With eight six-inch guns the Laconia was as heavily armed as many cruisers and a good example of why U-Boats would attack while submerged.
yep, the German navy is famously known for its courteous action. even after the Laconia incident many U-boats still give provisions and charts for the survivors (even if they don't do rescue efforts anymore). something that would hardly be ever done by other submarine forces during ww2.
I feel like not enough attention is given to the British contribution to the whole humanitarian mess surrounding submarines. Not that I intend to smear them unnecessarily, but it should not be ignored that their decisions played a large role in the merciless slaughter which followed. For the Brits, few actions were too severe to protect their merchant shipping and it forced German U-boats to undertake similar actions to ensure their own survival.
he definitely mentioned all this context at the beginning of the video
Heck, the Lusitania was a AMC at one time in ww1 which is why I suspect the U-20 made the choice it did given she was only recently returned to civilian service.
Although, given the importance of sealanes, the natural advantages od submarines and Germanys shit situation (thinking Britian would be stupid to do a close blockade when it would do a distant). Submarines were probably always going to go to underwater sinkings with no warning.
Thinking war should have rules is naive at best
@@SudrianTales war at sea did have surprisingly strict rules, at the age of sails at least. But then in ww1 there's no way they could keep the old rules enforced, except for the German. German Navy for some reason keep this rules despite the change in warfare nature. One famous example is the German surface raiders seeadler. This is a Windjammer (steel hulled full rigged ship) converted into commerce raider and despite capturing and sinking dozens of merchant vessels, they manage to do it with almost no casualties. Or another example in ww2 where German pilot escort stricken allied bombers out of the war zone. It's something almost uniquely reserved to the German people, because I haven't heard about allied or other axis power (the Japanese becoming notorious examples) do the same unless for a very rare occasions.
He said that he admired the U-boat captain dude. I felt that hit me hard, which shows you how much he got his respect despite his ship getting sunk by him!
This makes me think of a phrase "Attack the weapons, not the people". Once the Laconia had been sunk, by all rights a weapon as she was carrying guns(and honestly should not have had civilians onboard while armed during war), the act of the U-Boat commander to then offer aid to the people who survived is to be commended.
He acted with honor in a time of war. This is something to be commended
They had Red cross flag raised,it's still an US war crime
Yes, they had guns ... not sure who could use them effectively. This was a cruise ship with hundreds of privileged folks that had money during WWII; Italian POWs, they would switch sides later for their own benefit. It was not carrying tons of munitions, like the Lusitania was (WWI). The unrestricted warfare imposed by Hitler killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. The German Captain was an ethical man, and was, of course, criticized by the Corporal Nazi painter (no offense to painters everywhere). Compare that with the millions of civilians intentionally killed by the Nazis. After the US sank U-156 (a military sub), what did they do? They attempted to pickup the survivors. That used to be called ethics.
Of course they tried to pick up survivors, probably had some machinegun practice and a few days of slacking off before reporting nothing found
@@John-ih2bxFun fact: Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilian population centers full of nothing but women and children. All of the fighting age men were off fighting a war and those cities were civilian, not military, targets.
Makes you wonder who the bad guys really were
Wow! A story that can bring tears to the eyes. What a man Captain Werner Hartenstein was. He deserves to be remembered.
I have an unstarted 1/144 Type 7 U-boat kit here. When I get around to building it I'll build it as U-156.
This is a nice gesture,but I am sorry to tell you, U156 was a( bigger) Typ IX
@@theonlymadmac4771 THANKYOU! I also have a Type IX kit and will use it instead.
@@sirridesalot6652 Display it proudly as a memorial, her Captain and crew have the right to be remembered.
@@sirridesalot6652 You could even assemble a diorama, plenty of tutorial videos if it isn't your thing, with the lifeboats in tow and the red cross flying. Would be quite a work of art 🙂 (Please make a vid if you do so!)
FWIW I believe Capt. Hartenstein ordered the red cross flag to be draped over the deck gun, covering it, not flown from a mast.
This video is nothing short of superb. An excellent effort on all fronts, it left me with chills at the closing sequence.
Thank you for highlighting this almost forgotten part of our collective history
My uncle was one of those who died. Fought in France, 1939 - 40; posted to North Africa, 1941; rose to the rank of Company Sergeant Major in the Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment; selected for a commission, and posted back to England in 1942. Died on the 'Laconia'. All we have to remember him by is his name carved on a memorial at Brookwood Military Cemetery.
RIP, Uncle Will.
As for the aircrews who received military awards for the deaths they caused, and the senior officers who covered up what happened; may they all receive their just deserts.
Words are difficult to convey how vividly and poignantly this heart-breaking story has been brought back to life for modern audiences to learn. The Laconia Incident is yet again another lesson in mankind's folly, where the villains become the heroes and the heroes become the villains. The fact that those responsible for bombing the German rescue mission were never held to account for War Crimes and even rewarded in later life is vile and beyond contempt. Equally tragic is the later abandonment and loss of the U-156 crew who, while responsible for the torpedoing of Laconia in the first place, made an effort to rescue and successfully save nearly half her complement of passengers and crew. Hartenstein and his crew demonstrate the complexities and forgotten voices of those on the "wrong side of a war." The whole story brings to mind the adage: "There are no real winners in war, just survivors." Oceanliner Designs has always produced outstanding, riveting content. This story of Laconia is the most moving and your finest. Thank you.
America was quietly corrupt then.
It's outwardly and proudly corrupt now. They have NO shame whatsoever
While i agree with much of what you say i would say “on the wrong side” is not the best way to describe nazi germany… there is a reason we consider the nazi’s a horrible evil regime, their high command is at times the closes thing you can get to pure evil. So it just makes the argument feel… off when you make it out that he may not have been fighting on the wrong side… but beyond that the fact that the b-24 crew got away with essentially murder is despicable and i do agree it is one of those times in war that it shows both sides have morally grey flaws and pluses.
@@titanicgaming1148the german civilians and the Kriegsmarine did not knoe about the holocaust
@@titanicgaming1148 So many American war crimes are unaccounted for.... the targeting of civilian populations in Europe and Japan with incendiaries for maximum civilian casualties.... in Dresden, Hamburg, Leipzig, Tokyo, Nagasaki, Okinawa etc...
...and the US run Rhine Meadows PoW Death Camps and the genocide of over 1m German PoWs AFTER the wars end....
Thank you for yet another wonderful vid Mike . This time on the Laconia tragedy . Your attention to detail is astounding Mike and very much appreciated . So very proud of you and your channel. You were born to do this .
Definitely agree - this is a heartbreaking and frustrating story and I can only commend your strength in tackling it, and your sensitivity in the way you told it! Remembering these types of complex and dubious incidents is so important IMO to counter the over-simplified narratives which still prevail around the history of conflict, & which often continue to shape our attitudes to this day?
does miek do al the animating?
During his service in WWI as a fighter pilot, Herman Goering never shot down disabled aircraft. Once they couldn't fight, they were effectively a non-combatant and he let them fly home. He was criticised for this attitude. To which he replied (to paraphrase) 'I'm a hunter, not a butcher.'
I love to hear stories of this kind of comradeship and humanity during wartime, especially in this case where Captain Hartenstein was in command of such a feared and prized weapon but risked it all to show humanity. It was a cascade of communication failings, as well as an inexperienced and eager USAF crew that saw this otherwise romantic moment dashed. The fact Captain Hartenstein is still respected for this shows just how precious compassion is, even after his death.
Thank you for covering this. I hadn't heard of it before and to know now... I feel better for it. Thank you.
Göring was still a Nazi.
Mike finnaaallllyyyy I knew you’d cover this eventually and I’m so glad to see this story find a spot on your channel, truly both a fascinating and tragic story made up of so many key moments- It isn’t well known enough.
Thankyou for documenting it in a way only you can ❤
Yes. I've been telling people about this for years. Some people say I'm lying and this story is "Nazi propaganda". I am happy someone on UA-cam finally did a proper video about this incident.
It's not a tragic story, but rather one of humanity's best during the worst of times...
Hartenstein seemed an honourable man. He and his crew routinely showed the shining signs of humanities light. . . Despite being thrust into dark times. Its sad he didnt get to live to see an age of peace.
Of course he wouldn't have liked to see his nation being divided in the Cold war and seeing his nation being in a political mess in the late 2010s and 2020s.
I seriously can’t imagine how much effort was put into the animation, research, and over all making of this video. Huge respect mike👏🏻👏🏻
Captain Sharps First Officer was Commodore Harry Grattidge who covers the sinking in his autobiography. He was also one of the last captains of Aquitania, and technical advisor on A NIGHT TO REMEMBER, along with former Titanic Officer Joseph Boxhall
What an astonishing story! Kept me on the edge of my seat. So well documented with the animation and Eloquent narator. 👏
This video is a remarkable achievement honoring a story that needs to be widely heard and remembered.
Absolutely love the documentary length videos for the OD team 😁❤ thank you all as always for thr amazing work
Succinct, compelling, and totally distressing. As others have said "there almost seems to be a collective desire to forget this story"
It is as though there are too many stories here all together that are so harrowing; for a film maker they would be overwhelmed, yet your commentary of such a tragedy demonstrating the insanity of war is worthy of an award.
Who needs Hollywood when we have amazing creators such as yourself. Your best work so far. Thank you.
So generous and kind of you, thanks so much!
Yes, Hollywood. How was this a WAR CRIME? This was a CF ... by quite a few people.
@@OceanlinerDesigns Yes, Hollywood. How was this a WAR CRIME? This was a CF ... by quite a few people.
W
Because we all know who OWNs Hollywood !!!!!
I wasn't planning on crying today, but here we are.
Incredible video as always, Mike.
Oops, sorry 😁
Same!
This is one of the most telling of all war stories. Truly astonishing, and an excellent production.
I always wondered if there was going to be a great documentary about the tragedy… so glad you’ve been able to done it. Great job on it and thank you Mike!
I did not make this, but I finally found a copy and uploaded it a few months ago. Laconia: Survivor's Stories. ua-cam.com/video/2QBsPNrmWLE/v-deo.html
Among German sailors, U-Boot commanders and crew have a special aura around them to this day. Those among them who were lucky enough to survive the war, were an incredibly close-knit group.
Maybe it is because of what they went through on their long patrols in their cramped and gloomy steel coffins, the odds they faced for their survival, or what dramatic effect they could achieve with a single successful shot.
I only know for sure that the steel that made up their nerves was stronger than that in the hull around them.
Great work Mike, what an incredible story. Thank you Oceanliner Designs for shedding light on this. I really hope the Laconia's wreck is found someday.
brilliantly narrated. Brought me to tears, yet again.
For multiple reasons, Capt. Richardson was a poor officer. One who was properly trained and competent in his job would also give more consideration to the observations of his subordinates who were directly on the scene, rather than 'follow the book.' Poor communication does not provide an excuse for violating established international maritime law, which protected vessels - even enemy combatants, and even submarines - engaged in actions to rescue the survivors of lost ships. Lt. Harden shares some of his superior's guilt by not refusing to carry out a prima facie unlawful order.
Well done on mentioning the Mallison article in the 1993 International Law Studies publication by the Naval War College! It and the rest Vol.65 are available online as a PDF for anyone interested in the legal minutiae of that and other cases of war conducted against merchant shipping.
So well done (as Oceanliner Designs always does). This one brought me something I didn't expect.....many, many tears. Thank you for sharing this devastating occurrence in military and maritime history.
What an incredibly sad and moving story.
Another sensitive and reflective presentation, thank you, Mike, and crew. The script didn't have an unnecessary word and the 3D visuals were breathtaking. Lovely rendering of the B-24 too. Thank you, your work is of tertiary educational quality.
It was indeed a war crime, the fog of war is basically impossible to claim in this instance. It's uncomfortable when war crimes are committed by 'our guys', but the stories need to be told, the lessons learned, and steps taken.
No crime was committed. You can't carry out an act of war and then hide behind a red cross to keep from being attacked yourself.
It wasn't a warcrime. A U-boat doesn't get protections under international law unless it takes some pretty drastic action to disarm itself, which was not done here.
@1993Crag 🙄 You clearly didn't watch the vid.
@@Michael-zf1ko So what crime was committed?
@@Michael-zf1ko i did thanks
At first I somewhat understood the stress the crew of the bomber were feeling when making the decision to bomb it but coming back twice after that is just horrible
Average american crew tbh
They also straved potato farmers in germany with mashine guns woman and children and those were orders issued for entire air fleets
Also read about the Rheinwiesen camps
@@peterwolf8395 yanks are arrogant
@@peterwolf8395 War crimes have been committed on all sides. On german side aircraft pilots did this in starting in the very beginning of the war during attacks on poland.
G'day Mike, Yes, this certainly was one of the most 'out of character' incidents of the entire 'Battle of the Atlantic'. Many years ago when I began my journey to become a military historian, I'd read several books and archival documents that referred to 'The Laconia Order'. I did, finally come across a dry, emotionless accounts of the incidents surrounding the loss of the Laconia and did some further reading. I quickly sensed that those who had penned the 'official' reports had displayed a strange need to avoid minute details or to apportion blame at any level.
Nothing I knew about this incident, before today, had any great impact upon me except, of course, for the tragic loss of life.
You and your team's outstanding efforts to bring the Laconia sinking saga to life, via the amazing images you've created, have totally driven home the extreme tragedy; the sense of foreboding, then the suffering of the crews of both vessels plus the luckless, Laconia passengers. The tiny proportion of survivors of the Laconia tragedy were fortunate indeed.
Like all of your visual depictions of the grand era of commercial seafaring, your images are stunningly beautiful and have that unmistakable feeling of historical accuracy; even though shipping of that period is not one of my specialist areas of study... till now.
Throughout the history of WW2 there are, from all sides, isolated tales of remarkable humanity; that sense of this genuinely worldwide conflict did bring out the worst and best of what it means to be human.
The Laconia saga is, perhaps, the story that best illustrates these mixed, conflicting emotions that came from the complex, overall story of the second world war.
No matter what your story content might be in the future, please continue to stick to the truly 'high bar' you've set for yourself and your team mates.
You've truly taken the illustration of historic UA-cam videos to much higher level.
Thank you and cheers, Bill H.
It only appears "out of character" because you grew up on a steady diet of allied postwar propaganda, about vile nazis acting despicable and valiant allies acting chivalrous. This whole incident is far more truthful in displaying the characteristics of the factions involved.
@@InternetStudiesGuy disobeying orders, not from Nixon , Bush,. Or Churchill....
But Disobeying Direct Orders from Adolf Hitler MEANT A SUREFIRE TORTUROUS DEATH!
I knew of this incident from very young because my Grandmother's brother was one of the survivors. He died in 1993 but left a series of 1963 Sunday Express articles with personal notes about how this war crime was covered up when it was exposed at the Nuremberg trials as part of Admiral Donitz's defence
@InternetStudiesGuy, allied post-war propaganda? What a funny way you chose of describing the truth.
@@AndersonvillePete-xc1tm
if by describing the truth you mean pretending like allies never did anything bad then youre just as much brainwashed as many others that think the nazis were the only bad guys during the greates (read: most aweful) war in human history.
I love this channel, bringing back these beautiful ship back to life and giving them their own personalities. We all appreciate the amount of research and efforts you put in all your vids❤❤❤
Mike, your little hobby has surely blossomed here into what should be award winning presentations.... Very few could ever hope to do as good a job as you continue to do here.
Job well done! Your usage of both real and computer generated footage is very well done, and tasteful. It's not over the top and in your face. You have such a classy channel.
Thank you very much!
A fascinating story told so well, yet again. Oceanliner Designs is guaranteed to produce quality documentary content. Mike’s dedication to research and the spirit of true journalism - explaining historic events in a way any layperson can understand, enjoy, and appreciate. I’ve had a career in writing and sub-editing for 35 years, and the scripts are always beautifully crafted works I’d be proud to have produced. Plus Mike’s an excellent presenter who is measured but also natural and genuine. And so wonderful to hear an Aussie voice! It’s also nice to see the partnerships he has with people like the Titanic Honour and Glory guys. No competition, just people with a shared passion enjoying themselves. I’m really enthusiastic about Mike’s work and wish him every success.
The introduction of this video already broke my heart a little bit. Great video. Thank you for making it.
Men with moral courage are a rare find at any time. God bless this man who had a true heart and did his duty at the same time.
Amen
Very well done, Mike. An excellent treatise on a little-known and not well understood tragedy of WWII. I was considering doing a post on my blog about the Laconia incident, but I believe you have done a far better coverage of this event than I could have done. Hats off to you, my friend!
Kindest regards,
Kerry McCoy
Ships of State Studio
Excellent production and narration
And that my friends is Humanity! My uncle's dad Leonard Valdez, was in first Division Big Red One, armor, and almost everybody in his division were killed by the German armor. The German Medics fell back and gave life-saving medical help to him and a few other American survivors and tagged them and left them for the Americans. Their actions saved the lives of the Americans. That has always made a hell of a positive impact on me!
I recognized the name "Laconia," so I wrongly assumed I had heard the story of its sinking before; I was completely wrong. Thank you for taking the time to explain the whole story, even the rather mundane bits at the beginning and end. As an American, I am well aware that we are generally not the "good guys" in any past or present conflict, but this story was genuinely shocking. I can honestly understand the American bomber firing upon the German U-Boat (as horrific, unnecessary, ridiculous, and inexcusable as it was), but the part that made me lose my mind was the fact that there was no investigation into the situation afterward, and no one was held accountable! The airmen should have been stripped of the award they received for allegedly sinking a u-boat, at least (because the u-boat didn't actually sink!). The reason this is so frustrating is that we see the same thing continue to happen today. People in positions of leadership are not held accountable for breaking their own rules--but enforce them on others. If American commanders aren't going to be punished for ordering the killing of civilians, then German commanders shouldn't be punished, either. If we stoop to the same level of our enemies, then we are even more evil than they.
There was another Laconia sunk in 1917 (fortunately, just 12 lives were lost).
That's the advantage of being on the winning side. In the words of Winston Churchill: "History will be kind to me, for I shall write it."
Self-loathing Americans are a plague.
Sorry but why do you see the initial attack on the submarine as justified
@@MaticTheProto I didn't say it was justified; I said it was understandable. The fog of war, the low fuel, the lack of communication, the confusing situation unfolding below, etc., all contributed to the bomber crew making a bad decision. Doesn't mean it was a complete accident, nor does it mean they should have gotten off Scott-free. The point I was making was that it is far more terrifying that no one investigated the incident afterwards than the fact that the incident happened in the first place, because that indicates a breakdown of the moral fabric of the entire military, not just a single bomber crew.
A video on the Cap Arcona would be a great companion piece to this one.
Imagine the irony of being saved by your enemy, and then being killed by your own allies.
Thank you for covering this story Mike!!
What amazes me most is the difference in the behavior of the British-Polish crew on the one hand and the Germans on the other. The former trapped the Italians in a sinking ship until every person of their own was safe, stabbing and shooting the desperate men and even hacking their hands with axes as they tried to escape the sharks into lifeboats, while the latter indiscriminately rescued anyone they could find, Italian allies, British enemies and even the Polish guards, although they knew how those had acted towards the Italians.
The Allied side is atrociously white washed, and the Axis is buried under black legend. Over all, the Germans were the best behaved of all the powers involved, and this runs contrary to the black legend the Allied order needs to uphold to maintain power.
What’s the ship name?
almost like the winning side set up a narrative, not only did the allies committed most of the friendly fire incidents, they committed warcrimes left and right too
Those German submariners behaved humanely, but it must be remembered that their comrades on land were far more brutal; the German occupation of Poland killed millions.
@@revanofkorriban1505 You're comparing the crews of a few dozen with the actions of military groups that collectively numbered multiple millions. There was innumerable squads, platoons, and battalions of Germán foot troops who where decent people - and overshadowed by the divisions and political paramilitary elements whos actions disgraced the rest.
Excellent piece of work. So much can be taken from this piece of history
Thank you, Mike! As a ww2 historian, this is a very interesting and tragic story to hear 😢
Have you written a book? A dissertation? Anything to justify your claim of being an "ww2 historian"?
@@eisaatana96 2:1 Bachelor of Arts degree in History. My dissertation titled “On the Road to Victory: The Female Narrative of the Second World War in the Womens Auxiliary Air Force, Air Transport Service, Women’s Royal Naval Service” graduated from University of Southampton in 2017
What sort of WW2 historian hasn't heard of the Laconia Incident and the HUGE fallout from it as well as it's impact in legal proceedings in post war trials?
Ah, no then.
@@laratheplanespotter So many American war crimes are unaccounted for.... the targeting of civilian populations in Europe and Japan with incendiaries for maximum civilian casualties.... in Dresden, Hamburg, Leipzig, Tokyo, Nagasaki, Okinawa etc...
...and the US run Rhine Meadows PoW Death Camps and the genocide of over 1m German PoWs AFTER the wars end....
Wonderful documentary. Yours is one of the best channels on UA-cam, no question. Thanks to you and other outstanding channels on YT I rarely watch live TV now.
My Father was in the crew of the liner SS Washington on September 7, 1939, when the rescued the crew of the Olivegrove after she’d been sunk by the U-33. The U-33 had sent a distress call and stood by for 11 hours to protect the crew until the Washington arrived.
The entire crew of Olivegrove (including the parakeet) survived.
This is such a touching story!
I am blown away in your story telling and the visuals, I was almost brought to tears from what these people went through...
It really illustrates how terrible war can be and all sides where the victims of such tragedy...
I love this video so much this deserves some kind of award!!!
It just goes to show how history is written by the winners. Had the roles been reversed the pilots and the base commander would have definitely faced war crimes charges.
True
Propaganda
@@madsquabbles2016 How so?
Not true, a LOT of Germans never faced any criminal charges (including SS). But hey write your own little story lmao
Something I learned from an old history teacher of mine is that “it’s not a war crime as long as your side wins the war.” Something that is unfortunately demonstrated here.
What boils my blood about this is the fact that history has seemingly try to forget about this.
7:09 my grandmother was a farmer's daughter during WWII And she had several Italian P,O,Ws working her farm, she said that most of them HATED Mussolini (one of them even said "Fu@K Mussolini" more than once) and were very good farm workers, with the war in effect being over for them they seemed to enjoy the relative peace of a farm and one of them even taught her to speak Italian.
They say that shit because they are literally POWs and want to not be supporting of someone that could literally get them killed
Many remained in Britain after WWII and their descendants still farm in the Vale of Evesham.
@@moosifer3321some italian POWs were sent all the way to australia, and apparently about 1 in 5 of them came back afterwards - one of them was my grandfather. returned to italy in 1946, was back by 1949, brought his wife and their baby out by 1950
Thank you for sharing
You can't exactly take to heart the word of a forced slave laborer on enemy's land while he's in captivity. That's what the angloids expected him to say so he said it to survive.
Thoroughly captivating account of this incident. Expertly written with a perfect voice for narration. So very well done, every video on this channel just exceeds the high bar of the last. Easily among the best content on UA-cam. Can’t wait for the next video!
So very kind, thankyou!
A wonderful piece you've put together here. Laughs, cries and that horrible feeling of War.
Awful story but compellingly told, thank you for shedding light on this fascinating subject, Mike. You are providing a truly great service to history with this channel, and as always, well done.
WWII U-boat commanders are a weird bunch. Some of them are despicable, terrible, awful excuses for a person. Others are shining beacons of humanity.
That's humanity in a nutshell.
In WW2, some Allied commanders, soldiers etc. were more monstrous than the Axis commanders, soldiers etc. It's not a simple, automatically good or evil situation.
Most U-boat commanders were not bad people, I would say that some were great people, like Hartenstein, and others were just average soldiers, politics aside. Only 1 U-boat commander was ever charged with war crimes during the entire war. All in all they have a pretty clean reputation.
@@beefboss1149 Well, most of them didn't make it out of the war to face any charges in the first place. Like 75% of U-boats were destroyed during the war.
@@TheTonyMcD that’s true, I forgot to take that into account. But even still there are few documented cases of crimes taking place and also after torpedoing ships, which were for the most part in convoys, they would not be able to carry out any crimes. But you’re right there were likely undocumented cases that commanders took to their Atlantic graves. It’s just my personal opinion that most commanders were not horrendous people.
The german navy was the branch of the military that was least infested with Nazis.
A brilliant retelling of the Laconia tragedy. Sadly in war, these mistakes take place. It's at such time we need men to think of each other as fellow humans and be the example of why we should try rather than shouldn't.
This video has been a long time coming, and it has been well worth the wait! Your documentaries are always a masterclass and keep getting better. Thanks for all of you and your team's work!
My second cousin, three times removed was one of the casualties on board the Laconia. Cyril I. Pyror - 1st Class RN Stoker. He died of exposure (although more likely his injuries or being attacked by sharks) while in lifeboat 2.
I also had a family member who was, I now realize, on the Laconia. My father told me that his brother was on a ship sailing back to England from South Africa when they were torpedoed by a German submarine. He explained that the submarine stayed with them and fed them until help arrived. My uncle became a POW until released by the Americans when they invaded north Africa.
This all falls into place from what is now known as the Laconian affair. I am interested on how you found out that your cousin was in a particular lifeboat and unfortunately died from exposure, as I would like learn more about my uncle.
3D modelling has always been a little hobby of mine, I always awe at seeing others excellent work and appreciate the time & patience that went into it.
It's interesting to note that the same italian submarine that took part in the rescue mission did a similar thing a few years before, after sinking a belgian freighter the italians rescued the survivors and sailed for an epic voyage to a neutral harbor to release the survivors
After towing the lifeboats, which started sinking a few days after, he brought them on board to a safe harbour.
My great uncle was an officer on a Dutch merchant ship during the 2nd world war. He was at sea when the Netherlands were occupied and by consequence Liverpool became his new home port. He also sailed on the infamous route to Murmansk, and lost quite some friends and classmates from his Nautical College to German submarines. But despite all that, he held the Germans in high regard and was always referring to them as "decent people". Guess that someone with his experience was entitled to say such a thing.
@arnoudagr. Yeah, those SS guys were real Boy Scouts, weren't they?
My grand-uncle was second-in-command on a German U-Boat. He was send on a suicide mission and knew that he'd likely not return. He told my grandfather "If I make it back, I'll become an Admiral". He died at age 21. I still have the correspondence between my grandfather and the British Admiralty.
As usual,yet another fantastic and historical video. So educational. Thank you.
The Laconia incident was a blatant warcrime. The pilot of the bomber that dropped the depth charges should have been able to distinguish the lifeboats that the ship was towing behind it from the low attitude it was flying at, and should almost certainly have known that it was undertaking a rescue operation once those life baots were spotted, but the crew was new, wanted to prove themselves and what better way to prove yourself then killing a German U-boat during a period in the war where the U-boat fleet was very dangerous still.
save the U-boat at all costs!
Spoken like someone who has never had to make a hard choice i their life. Nice that you assume the worst of the aircrew.
@@jfranklinlewis Since the evidence is clear that they should have seen the sub red cross signals and the boats getting towed behind it, i have every reason to assume the worst. This has nothing to do with making hard choices and everything to do with terrible choices.
@@jfranklinlewislol. No justification is possible in this case
the body cam movement has change my opinion of most historical "facts" and the bias of peoples memory add to this propaganda efforts of all sides during and after events warcrime claims become difficult to prove
that was a war crime. There is nothing controversial regarding that. Just say it as it is. If it had been carried out by Germany, it is a war crime, but because it was carried out by the allies, it was controversial.
History is written by the victors, so it’s always makes them seen in more of a positive light than they should be while demonizing the losing side. Adds the the lie that the so called “good guys” conveniently always win.
You know the saying it's only a war crime when you lose
Agreed every Nation did War Crimes some more some less but it's not Black and white...
And I hate that many Nations still try to hide and downplay what they did... Manly the Japanese, Americans and I would say to a lesser degree the UK @@RS-nk7bd
Video: calls the act a war crime in the title and thumbnail
You: CaLl It A wAr CrImE
@@angusgritz3506 because he change the name.
Thank you for this episode, which has all the qualities of a TV documentary (and then some). I'm watching this from Germany and have done a bit of research into submarine warfare (not least because of "Das Boot"). Hartenstein is an example of what we call "Anstand" in German. Even though as a Nazi officer he is of course to be condemned, he shows that particular cognitive dissonance that was often seen in WW II and which meant that beyond (or amidst) the killing and murder, decency and humanity could flourish in certain areas. All the more tragic that his incredible efforts to limit the damage were destroyed by a misunderstanding or simply stupid recklessness. Thank you again for preparing this story for us today and making it understandable.
Ever since I first heard about this story I'ver maintained that Hartenstein and his men were damn heroes. Also good job in the German pronounciation :P
Another certified masterclass from your video collection. Awesome!!
Thanks mate! :)
Just stumbled across this channel. Absolutely FANTASTIC!!!! Some people just don't have that voice to narrate but this man has totally got it. Its made my day finding this channel. Keep it coming, SUBSCRIBED!!!!!!
Thanks so much and welcome aboard!
I’m afraid there were many acts like this in times of war. Some people will carry out orders no matter the circumstances and others will do the right thing. War can bring out the Best and Worst in people. Thanks for another great video and Rest Peacefully all those involved in this tragedy.
Very true. Specially considering that there were actually German sub commanders, aswell as Japanese and US sub commanders who did order machine gunning of survivors, in stark contrast to what Hartenstein did.
It's really astounding how close this came to ending on a more or less positive note. Fate can be so cruel sometimes.
My father was on board Laconia when it was sunk. He was eventually rescued by the French Cruiser 'Gloire' and taken to a POW camp near Casablanca prisoner of war.
Eventually liberated by American troops.
He never spoke in disparaging terms about the Americans involvement in the incident.
Oh my gosh, every single one of my favorite UA-camrs all my subscribies put on new videos today. It's the best day ever. You're the last one the most important and I'm so excited so no pressure. This better be great.
Halfway through and nearly a tear in my eye
It is. I've heard this story more than a few times and while it still gets to me, I've become so numb to all these horrific stories. It's just it takes a piece of humanity every time you tell it or hear it. This is a particularly tough one, though I can't imagine what it was like for the Americans in the end realizing what had happened, I just there's no side they wins here. such is war.
@@willowhofmann7409agree, this is the first time hearing about this one but i’ve read, seen and heard a quite a few horrible tragedies about the war. Another excellent case to prove that not everyone hates each other, and that orders from command and the decision if whether or not to follow them can either bring fame or infamy.
Glad your still uploading bangers while working on grand voyage!
Such hi-class documentaries like yours, which are nicely narrated, thoroughly researched, well put together, are pure pleasure to watch. Thanks again.
Another interesting sub rescue story is the SS Rakuyō Maru. She was an infamous "Hell Ship" full of Australian and British POWs sunk by the USS Pampanito who coordinated a rescue attempt of the survivors. There is a video interviewing her crew on YT and a reunion in the 90s with crew and POWs, it's interesting and tragic.
And the sinking of that Japanese transport was just one, there were others. To have suffered internment in a Japanese POW camp only to die by friendly fire on a 'hellship' is tragic.
Amazing documentary - well done! Despite the opinion that every German was a ruthless Nazi, this video shows that there WERE men of honour and compassion, and that they were simply doing their job. Just brilliant!
Yeah, nuance seems to be one of the first victims of war, alas? 😢 And past propaganda seems to constantly continue to skew our understanding of what happened in the past, esp. around conflicts!
The way that skewed understanding of the past colours political decisions now & affects whether the public supports or opposes them is fascinating to me, and often very worrying too. I feel like historians have a huge ethical obligation... Always appreciate educator channels like this who do more indepth dives and highlight some of the more "inconvenient truths" of history. Not without viewer kickback either, I imagine!
Sailors tend to have a sense of chivalry towards other sailors because they're all aware of what the sea can do. The German Navy was probably the least Nazified service, on the opposite end of the spectrum from the Waffen SS.
Yes. I originally began uploading videos about this incident after an argument I got into online with a guy who said all Germans deserved to get killed simply because they were German. It was in the comment section in a documentary about the firebombing of Hamburg. The woman being interviewed was 6 at the time of the bombing. A guy said she deserved to die for what Germany did. I said she was a 6 year old girl and had nothing to do with Nazi atrocities. He said all the Germans were part of it and evil. I argued most Germans were regular people. Most soldiers were regular soldiers. And a lot of Germans were good people. I asked him "Do American women and children deserve to be raped or burned to death because of what Bush did in Iraq? Because of Abu Ghraib and other crimes?" At one point he started repeating the wartime propaganda lies about how all the uboat crews always would machine gun any survivors. I said that was not true. That never happened. They were only ever accused of that once, and it was unlikely it occurred. But a lot of people said the uboats would assist them with food, water, and directions to the nearest land, plus on several occasions would tow them toward shore. He said that was Nazi propaganda. So I looked up this incident, but found no videos on UA-cam. So I ended up having to find videos and upload them myself.
Since then I have been messaging creators on UA-cam suggesting they make videos about this subject. A couple have mentioned this subject or done short videos about this. But this is the first proper in depth full length documentary about the Laconia Incident anybody has made. Oceanliner Designs is now on my top five favorite UA-cam creators.
i appreciate your intelligent post! you might read, as well. Das Boot, by Lothar Gunther Bucheim, and Iron Coffins by Herbert Warner, or Werner. i find inaccuracies in recently written books about history, so i look for older ones. Band Of Brothers is, of course, excellent. getting away from the ones upon which movies are based is where the learning begins, of course.
In truth, very few of the officer corps of the u boat service were Nazis. Likewise it wasn't common to find many fanatical die-for-hitler types in the common crews of the Kriegsmarine. They were mostly men given a difficult job to do which they took no real pleasure in. But they had to do it anyway.
Thanks for explaining me the origine of the U-boot "no mercy" behavior. It is always fascinating to see the abuse/omission in the winner's storytelling.
its actually is taught if you ever studied ww2 in the uk on a acedemic level, its commonly taught britian caused it... britian caused alot of the stuff that happened to it, like the blitz was techinally caused by the actions of the RAF, neither actions are justifiable but they happened and is taught
tho he is slightly wrong about the uboat wolfpacks, they actually came before radar was widely used to counter uboats, its just a very very succesful way of dealing with planes, commonly they had 2-3 subs btw
A great video, I like your work!
But just because I am a huge nerd about U-boats I have to note, that you are using a Type VIIC model there to portray U-156, which in reality was a Type IXC. That was the larger oceangoing U-boat of the Kriegsmarine.
Not that the type VIIC's didn't also cross oceans :)
The sinking of the laconia is a very forgotten subject, i'm surprised You did a video on it
Amazing story🎉 very heroic❤ what being done, a hero and having love ties everything together🎉
Mike, you are an absolutely outstanding historian and great storyteller. The best on UA-cam! Hope to mee you some day in person, mate! Cheers!
Thanks legend!
I heard that there was an old saying in World War II. I don’t know if it’s true though. “When the Germans fly over, the British duck. When the British flyover, the Germans duck. When the Americans fly over EVERYBODY ducks!!
With the air farce it's true.
@@jefferyindorf699I'm guessing you flunked BMT?
You can easily extend that saying to nowadays aswell the American A 10 is so underdeveloped that the Brits litterary forbade the Americans to use the thing in their zones in Afghanistan as the damn thing started racking up blue on blue incidents. The only good thing is the gun of that thing (American priorities am I right?) so f it if the pilot has to peer out of his cockpit with binoculars to identify vehicles on the ground.
@@jefferyindorf699farce lmao American education is a joke
@@CASA-dy4vs You do know he is making word play farce/force.
Thank you, Mike! I know about Laconia Incident, but this is beautiful coverage! Keep up the excellent work!
Mike, I really enjoy your channel. Thank you for telling this underrepresented story. No doubt, the standard history books in the States gloss over this shame to focus on some of the more heroic aspects of the war. It is good for people to know the story; and that in war, even “good guys” do terrible things.