V12?! '90 Jaguar XJS Surging Idle (KY Road Trip!)
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- Опубліковано 26 кві 2023
- Last day of the Kentucky road trip, and we have a very neat car to diagnose!
This 1990 Jaguar XJS has the big V12 under the hood.
Owner says that the IDLE speed is way too high, and it SURGES as the engine is warming up.
Also, one of the rear quarter power windows is stuck down, so cruising around in bad weather is problematic.
Let's see if we can figure out these quirks NPR-style, and take the BIG CAT for a spin around the block :)
Enjoy! - Авто та транспорт
My wife came in at the end of the video and asked, "is that the guy that fixes things 'no parts required'?" 😏
Oooof. Auto electrics brought to you by Lucas. The prince of darkness. The headlight switch should say, off, dim, and flicker.
Don't let the smoke out LOL.
"Lucas the prince of darkness!" LOL!
Brits don't really like warm beer either, but with Lucas refrigerators, that's what happens😂
Back in the day, a Jag would have been considered a nightmare to work on, but compared to the newer cars it's now a walk in the park.
Well I guess you don't need a scanner ;)
That's the damn truth!! I'd work on these every day of my career over modern computerized garbage! Constantly having to update modules, replace modules, reprogram modules, figure out can bus communication faults 😡😡😡😡
Back in the days (60-70s) one need 2 jag's one to drive and the second one for repaires in the shop. LOL
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics ...but you can get a lot of info out of them using an oscilloscope instead!
@@ulfg1409 yup oscilloscope applies to EVERYTHING 😁👍
Interacting with customers does add something extra to the experience. I kina like it!!
Hi Ivan, Thank you for sharing your video. After serving my time at Rolls Royce I went to work at our local Jaguar/Daimler Dealership. I worked on XJ-S, XJ6 etc all the time. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you how to do your job. But I can assure you, by replacing the AAV will drastically bring the idle rpm within parameters. (Common fault) However, it's best synchronising the throttle bodies first by the turntable linking/throttle linkage for each bank once done then adjust the new AAV. If you need more info, I still have my service/technically data books from Jaguar workshop which I would glady photcopy the pages you need. I know also UK models suffered with the intake ports getting sooted up, but I am aware USA models were design to run leaner due to the emission regulations in the USA. (Hence all the vacuum hoses)
Nice job, Ivan! So pleasing to see a car that doesn't need temperamental modules to work and adjustments are mechanical 🙂
Years back, a neighbor of mine inherited an older XJS (non convertible) and he had to sell it, because he couldn't afford the fuel it swallowed 🙂
I had a boss in the '80s who owned a Jaguar XJ6. At a stoplight, if the AC cycled on, the engine stalled. I opened the glove box to get some documents for him, and it fell out of the dash! Cured me of ever wanting one of them. Another buddy in the '60s bought a Lotus Europa - stylish, sporty and VERY LOW to the ground - I got a ride home with him once, and in traffic, I had to look UP to see the car in front of us whole muffler and exhaust pipe system.
LOTUS = Lots of trouble, usually serious
I’m sure Your rightfully compensated monetarily, but the smiles gotta be priceless! Nice work as always Ivan. 👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸😍
Those are some Tiny tail pipes for that V12! The sheer fact that You would work on an old Jaguar impresses Me!
A+ for trying.
They are not meant to make a vulgar racket, they are supposed to slip along… quickly ! drawing attention to yourself by making a lot of noise is not desirable. The behaviour of a yahoo.
Nice fix Ivan your skills are among the best when it comes to Diagnostics.I have come along way with my Diagnostics because of channels like Yours, Scanner Danner, Eric O. among a few others.Thank You for all you do.
A friend of mine has retired from the automotive repair.
His take on Jaguar's was you are either stopping at a gas station or a garage for service on something with them.
Yes he retired from a Jaguar Dealership.
Seeing this brought back a memory for me. My friend’s neighbour sold me one of these. Hard top version. It purred. Mechanically perfect. Paint was a little shabby but a beautiful car. And I got it really cheap. Then I filled it up with fuel. Ran it the weekend and had no wages left I sold it that same week. I had it for about 5 days. Ran it for 3 then it was empty. And got the same as I paid for it. Which was about 1000 UK pounds.
I’d buy another one tomorrow if I saw one going cheap. And try to keep it more than a week this time
"had no wages left". 😂😂😂
I saw the two owner requests and diagnosed them in my head as a vacuum leak and Lucas. Who would have thought that of the two guesses Lucas would be the wrong answer. hahaha Great job Ivan it's a pleasure watching the process and the grins on the owner's faces when it's done.
The owner needs to get O-rings and the short fuel hoses connected to the injectors replaced. They are exposed to high engine heat and notorious to incinerate your car in short notice. Another failure point due to neglect is the rotors in the distributor. The plastic on the shaft gets brittle and cracks which creates a short and leaves the A bank without ignition. The unburned fuel will make it to the hot cats and ignites and creates a final toasty ride.
There are two ECUs on this one. One controls ignition and the other fueling. Plenty of sensors and relays controlling everything. That's why Daimler called their V12s Double Six. The digital Marelli ignition cars displays DTC at the center display consul. Was hoping Ivan would have looked for it to see if this condition would have thrown a code or multiples which are only displayed after clearing the high priority one first. It also would have been interesting to see what a scope on the heated O2 sensors would've revealed. They probably were screaming for more fuel. The connectors are at the inner fenders and easy to access.
Lastly, the auxiliary air valve (AAV) is a common problem when the get older. There's an aluminum piston with controlled air passage within the aluminum housing which will eventually gum up and the thermostat bulb which controls the piston movement will fatigue over time. Regarding servicing the AAV, taking it off and cleaning it is one temporary option. New AAVs are almost distinct and very expensive. There's a Jag enthusiast in Lithuania who sells improved rebuild kits or rebuilds yours for a reasonable price. He's ebay handle is Jag-improver or contact Jonas Loda on the Jaguar XJS owners group on Facebook. I encourage any Jaguar owner or potential owner to join Jaguarforums and or Jaguar-Lovers. There are great guys on there who are trying to help to keep them majestic automobiles on the road. Jags are grand touring cars and made to be driven. One a V12, always a V12.
It is so fun to watch a brilliant person at work.
Good job Ivan, lost count on how many injector seal kits I have replaced in these, I had one brought to me about 10 years ago, it had a full service including, cap and plug wires and was running like a dog, 10 mins later was purring like a cat, after I put the wires in the correct order on the distributor cap. Great video.
Oh boy, when Ivan rolled out the footage of an XJS, my immediate thought was British electronics are undefeated at not working, and Ivan is the king of NPR…..a true CLASH OF THE TITANS here today folks. Get your popcorn.
Lucas - the inventors of the 'CAN NOT" bus!
@@trevorvanbremen4718 The one I heard was Lucas - The Lord of Darkness
Great work Ivan!!
Very nice job. Got to love those English electrics without relays and running current through switches in the dash
I’ve traveled many miles on a he treadmill watching your Videos. Thanks for the physical assist.
I saw a couple of guys in a DIY place doing rear brakes on this car. When we left at the end of the day, we had completed brakes on four wheels, discs and rotors, pad sensors, and front backing plates, and an oil and filter change. They were still struggling to get the rear subframe out.
Another satisfied Kentucky backwoods Jag owner. Don't you just love driving someone else luxury
I wasn't even thinking about the injector o-rings. Good catch Ivan!
Would hate to change all of them what a nightmare!
@@LesReeves Not too bad a job in comparison to trying to balance the carbies on a V12 E-Type!
@@trevorvanbremen4718 Yeah I had a Holden 202 straight 6 with triple SU's on it ,spent every w/end tuning the bloody thing(aussie built motor).Three pieces of tubing taped together & stick that in your ear.
Vintage Jag owners - it helps to be either a patient soul or very "mechanically inclined". Watch out for the high voltage wiring if you own one in "squirrel country". The insulation can be a combo of caviar aroma and teeth sharpener for some four footed visitors and it is super expensive to replace.
I was thinking they went to composite headlights before 1990. Nope. They did that in 1992, after Ford bought Jaguar. I read where the convertibles were modified by Hess and Eisenhardt from sedans. Great video!
Incorrect. The face lift model was 1992 which sported the Euro style headlights. The dual head lights was a US or NA requirement only. I own a 92 with a 5spd conversion.
I lost service and couldn't finish the video till now..you are very smart guy you sure know your wiring diagrams and know how to read them.
My friend/boss owned a Jag v12 along with a Grand National. I never got to drive it, but it was sweet to cruise around. At the time, I owned a mint 1970 Catalina convertible. I should never have sold that American land yacht.
Nice ride with the 400
I owned two (not at the same time) with the same engine, color, and options. One was in good condition the other was mint. I was a fool to sell but I lost my place of storage.
The worst thing about these type of vehicles is the owners don't know how to maintain them & parts are hard/non existent & expensive to obtain .You did a great job by explaining the need for regular maintance to the owner.Great video a always Cheers.
We used to joke about most of the issues were caused by the loose nut behind the wheel.
Besides, what else would the doctor’s wives complain about if the Jag wasn’t always in the shop?
Parts not difficult for classic Jags, there's a huge enthusiast network out there. It's whether you can do the work yourself or ship it out to a shop.
@@andrewlaw Easy to find parts in the UK, but not so much in the USA.
Lots and lots of parts available for these cars, usually cheaply.
Those old Jags are so cool, pain to work on, but so much fun to drive.
YOU ARE GOOD! Thankfully you had the electrical and diagnostic information for a great repair, plus WD-40 helped. Good one Ivan!
See SMA's latest on WD40 LOL.
I think this one would do a little better than 5MPG!!! I had a '76 (with the 'pre-HE' engine) that got about 5MPG. Mine was a hard top and, being in NZ, the steering wheel was on the RIGHT side.
It was a gutless pig too... If I'd owned it any longer, the V12 (along with all that ultra-unreliable Lucas crap) was going to be donated as a boat anchor to be replace with a nice reliable 350 SBC. TWICE the power and about THREE times better MPG. Oh, and the SBC just SOUNDS better too! (But I guess I'm biassed... LOL)
Three words seldom seen together. Happy Jaguar owner.
I'm calling it, needs more cylinders!
Love the Jag. Most beautiful car
Sounds like Lean Roll to me. Lucas, Inventor of the short circuit....LOL.
Lucas electrics, The Prince of Darkness!
Welp, like Jeremy Clarkson says, 'it's a Jagggg.." Back in 05 I worked for an independant shop and 1 of their best customers had 2 of these with the V12. The convertible was rarely driven and was an electrical nightmare. My diagnosis everytime was gremlins due to moisture and condensation. Today the component might work, tomorrow it might not..The hdtp coupe on the other hand was a daily for his wife, and other than a couple coolant leaks, was a real gem. As a matter of fact, I used many switches and relays as swap-tronics parts to help diagnose electrical issues on the convert, since we didn't have access to OE diagrams, and there was no local Jag steelership to go to. As I recall, those injectors use a double seal, 1 for the fuel and then a larger donut seal on top to seal the vacuum. That 1 gets hard and brittle and shrinks. Though it looks fine, it ain't. Imagine a smoke machine on this puppy. lol
Awesome Ivan, sure hope he does the injectors!!
One nice thing about those old cars. There are little to no computers anywhere! Everything is pretty basic and runs through switches and relays. Those old XJ's are infamous for leaking something. lol. Nice work Ivan.
And for rust. You definitely don't want to drive in in the rain 😂
Did an LS swap on an XJ-6 a while back, that was one we put a SBC 383 in 10 years ago. Did a bit of work on the 6.2 and dropped her in. Owner went out 2 days later and got himself a speeding ticket that he plans on framing!!
A little bit of liquid windshield sealer around those leaky injectors would solve the vacuum leaks... Love your methods man, another cool video!
What a nice fella. Thanks Ivan!!
I have a soft spot for the XJ series Jags, from the 4.2L six through to the V12. They drive super sweet. Dual coils on each side of the rear drive train ensure that drive comfort is a certainty. Unfortunately they do have electrical gremlins!
Good job Ivan!
The inside of the car is making "the worst sound in the world" from Dumb and Dumber. I think it's screaming for help, Ivan!
As a Jaguar owner, I can confirm, "A happy Jaguar owner" is a very rare thing indeed! They're beautiful cars, though. Totally worth the nightmare as long as you know what you're getting into. :)
"Can't we listen to the radio or something?" xD
We had non run Jaguar XJS V12 as a non start fault. Came in for electrical diagnosis. The the reason it would not start. The sump oil was heavily contaminated with petrol. After draining and replacing the oil it worked great and would start ok.
Nice call on checking those injectors for vacuum leaks. That is one cool Jaguar. I wouldn't want to feed it though. KY is at loss for you having to head back to PA.
I use silicone to lube, no smell like WD40. I then use Fluid Film as a non petroleum lube, and lasts forever and doesn't swell rubber. $10 bonus size spray can at Walmart. Excellent door hinge lube and rustproofing too!
I sure wish I'd known you were coming to KY, I've got a good one in the shop currently!
2019 Silverado that was struck by lightning.
3:00 those analog gauges are sick!!!
It's interesting that Jag use the relay terminals kind of backwards, normally 30 is constant power and 87 is switched output, there ya go
Nice jag, lol. Used to own xjs 4.2. What a pig of motor lol. Haha. Nice simple fix, needs new o rings in the injectors, Haha. Should be easy to fix. Nice job on the window, Ivan. KY is pretty cool.
Glad to see a Kansas State tag in Kentucky!!!
How can you only have 170K subscribers? You solve impossible problems
Maybe I'm on the UA-cam blacklist for showing a Trump flag in my garage xD
Can't turn down a fun diag challenge on a quirky classic :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics MAGA!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Thats the only fault I can find on your channel.LOL (everyone is entitled to their views.)
@@LesReeves Thanks for not cancelling me ;)
@@LesReeves that's what I was gonna say 😆😂 lol
Such a cool car
Glad you found the vacuum leaks. I thought I could hear a high pitched whistle and was wondering if it was a vacuum leak somewhere...
In these speed/density (map sensor only) fuel systems if excess air gets in while it's supposed to be at idle (idle switch active) the revs just bounce. Older Hondas do the same thing. Otherwise it would just rev as high as the available air allowed.
Bet that's a comfortable car.
listening to the warmed up engine 'hunt' sounded like my lawn mower at cold startup. In my case there was "stuff" behind air filter base that was impeeding the mechanical governor.
The car has vastly more parts involved with idle control.
Had the same issue on 93 eurovan... turned out to be the throttle body adjustment (there were no vacuum leaks and the idle control valve was fine, so overextended adjustment screw was the only culprit in my case). Seems like early 90s cars like to have oscillating idle when there's excessive air.
I was initially thinking vacuum leak! Old Hondas from the 90s had a similar issue with the hunting idle
Good catch on the injector o-rings. I don't know if I would have caught that one.
Just listen for the hiss :) And quite an honor to have MJ commenting on my vids!!
More than likely that window motor is sticking due to lack of use….🤟🏻😁
Gotta love a v12 smooth quiet and quick
And thirsty 😅
I don't even have to watch the entire video to tell you that the engine surging is likely a function of the GIANT vacuum leak you can hear during the first two minutes of this video. I can hear it even with the crappy speaker on my $100 smart phone.
Edit: My guess was close. The vacuum leak location was surprising.
Amazing how it would have seen very complicated in the day but nowdays it actually seems simple
I worked on one of those years ago, you have to take the air con pump off to get number 1 spark plug put, nice design....F.
Nice break from the usual scan tool and spaghetti wiring diagrams.
If only it was in the cards to megasquirt that beauty. A fair number of them got megasquirt when it was being developed, and if memory serves folks had to run a dual megasquirt to get enough drivers for the V12 so, like two I6 in parallel. Good times for sure.
I think newer versions have more drivers but the upper limit afaik was 8 per mega.
We've scrapped 99.9999%of these here in blighty. Gas guzling rot boxes, but they look gorgeous.
Nice work. Sounds sweet. I would live with the higher idle. My first thought would be throttle body, but I guess this is more old school? Nice car. The Saint, 70's UK TV show drove a white one. 👍
2 mechanical throttle bodies :) With all those old vacuum hoses I'm sure if you hooked up a smoke machine it would look like the engine was on fire xD)
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 😆 Your trip to Kentucky looked like fun, a proper Busman's Holiday. It must be great meeting all of these interesting people and getting to fix their cars, plus you get paid for the privilege!
As I understand, the early series of 'The Saint' used a Volvo P-1800, which, for some time Roger Moore owned. The 'car of choice' by the production company was an E-Type Jaguar, but Jaguar would not loan it to them, so they approached Volvo, and along came the P-1800. The later series I think had the XJ-S, but the show had already been 'screened'...
@jamesatkinson6480 my bad, it was actually The Return of the Saint that featured the white XJ-S.
@@jamesatkinson6480 You won't believe it, but the Jag owner's son was restoring an early 70s Volvo P-1800!!
When the video showed the first start up and idle I thought I heard some gnarly vacuum leak.
I live in Kentucky..good video bro I love jaguars I have a jaguar vanden plas 99 model X308. I'm looking for another one probably a 02 model the last year of my design.
Love that car. 😁
Very good work 🎉🎉🎉😅😅😅
Idle on earlier model V12s used only 1 bank for air intake and an auxiliary air pipe routed behind the engine for idle air on the other bank. It was very disconcerting to not feel any vacuum on one air intake.
Woooow! That's just an engine with added seats!
That Jag is a classic
A thirsty one too! Then my '89 Mazda van must be an antique, at least by Pennsylvania standards ;)
What a beast of a car, that engine bay is filled to the brim lol.
That engine needs a good service and seals for the injectors.
It would be a shame to damage that beast of an engine.
Hi you do some killer diagnostics enjoy watching and learning. I have a question the soldering iron you use does it have or can use on a battery pack?
Brilliant.
GREAT CAR
new sub...... i am liking the content
Hopefully that wire was just operating the buzzer and we never have to hear it again. :)
SO ANNOYING 🤣
What a find
The proper fix for the Jag is to remove the V12 and install a SBC 350....gravy!
I remember those things back in the day. Even new, they would not pass emissions test(always high CO). Dealer would turn fuel pressure way down and retest. It would pass but ran like crap. Once it passed, dealer would return fuel pressure to normal. Very dirty engines emissions-wise.
Ahh, the classic Jaguar XJS-C (The C suffix was used to denote a convertible version)
The XJ-SC was the mostly-convertible semi-targa one before the full convertible was offered. Before the factory full convertible, you could also get the XJ-S H&E convertible, not to be confused with the XJ-S HE.😂
Nothing that an LS3 engine would not cure !
I think a vacuum leak test using flammable liquids is not safe... I use water tets 😎 Thanks for the video ИВАН!
I totaled an ‘87, vehicle made an illegal u-turn in front of me. These cars are all about running wide open. TH400 transmission will hang the front suspension if you stomp on it! Loads of fun to drive! Steel Blue, beautiful color.
Leaking speed control bellow was notorious for leaks. Use silicone lube. We used to use Super Lube. WD40 is not a lubricant that lasts if it does anything at all. Nice to see one looking so good.
Imagine that, a Jaguar with an electrical issue😂
6mpg AND it’s gotta run premium gasoline. But hey, you own that car, money to run it is not a concern.
So far in every video of him I've seen, it's freezing cold. Doesn't see to affect his work :)
My 90 xj40 had that surging idle problem. It urned out to be the ECU. The Solder connection go bad through vibration. Resoldering usually works.
I love that car what else can I say? Wow 😃
I always declare my diagnosis up front and in general being a '90's car first said vacuum and second fuel if it isn't driven much.. I think the addage about no replacement for displacement rings hollow on this one. ;)
i pulled and engine on one of those was a targa top did a vale job took 3days to get apart /waite 3 weeks for parts . 5days to get running never took somany bolts out/3 big gojo contianers full . multiples of 12 add up fast
Ivan I have the same problem with idle, I will check my injector, my is a 1992 XJS v12 convertible
Ivan, it's been a very long time but I'm thinking the oil change requires about 12 quarts. Maybe someone knows. I enjoyed the video. Don't see too many cars like that one anymore. Thanks for Sharing!
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My biggest pet peeve is someone taking a classic car like that and chopping the top off of it and thinking it looks good... 😞😞
@@onryboy2264 they don’t look too bad. I used to take Xj6s over to Edison, NJ to have “factory” systems cut in. They looked great. These were very nice cars.
@@js12278 Thanks js for helping this old guy's brain!
I had a '79 model in '87. When it ran right it was so smooth. Unfortunately that was only 30% of the time. The dash cluster looks the same in this 90 model
Yeah I don't think they ever revised them.
I remember cars of this vintage liked to idle surge. Idle switch closed, speed sensor reading zero with a high idle and the computer would momentarily cut fuel. About 5 years after this car was made the makers did away with all the fast idle nonsense letting the computer do the work.
I had some experience with these. Each bank has it's own ECM (they have to be calibrated together), Turbo 400 trans, body side Lucas electronics. You dodged a bullet, Ivan!
Yeah, it looks like that switch arm has bent a little over time, so adjusting that screw makes perfect sense.
No it doesn't. That micro switch Ivan touched at the beginning in the video only tells the Ignition ECU that the car is in idle or decelerating, nothing else. It should release an audible click when the throttle bodies are closed.
@@rambleon2838 But if the little plastic arm is bent and it doesn't click when the throttle bodies are closed -- It's just a quick adjustment to recalibrate it. If the plastic arm on that switch as still straight, it would click like it's supposed to. It probably just got hot over time and bent from all the constant pressure while sitting.
i don't know whay camera did ivan used in this video, but it gives the jag a vintage vibe, which is kinda good