As a Builder myself, i can say that this is also what i have done on my builds. I use denshield as my backer.. its has waterproof built in no need for any other coating other thn sealing the seams with mesh and 1 cost of mortar being used for tile.
this is just what i was looking for...instructions for doing something to avoid future issues - even if it shouldn't be a problem. Want to do a simple but thorough job the 1st time.
This is an excellent video! We built our house a year and 6 months ago (Ryan/NVR Homes). When they installed our tile in the shower, they grouted/hard caulked the bottom where the tile meets the pan and every time we would shower, our grout on our tile floor outside the shower would get soaking wet. SO, they sent in their tile vendor (Rite Rug) and the employee spent HOURS chipping away at that hard caulk leaving an open gap most of the way around where the tile meets the pan. However, shortly after we started to get a bad sewer smell & I was always flushing mildew and mold floaties out of that gap when I cleaned the shower (I was using a toothbrush to try and get in the gap). Cleaning would help with the smell for a little, but it would always come back. Eventually the sewer smell turned into an onion smell. Ryan Homes told me it was just the drain that smelled and I needed to clean it. Well, I cleaned it and it was hardly dirty. A little scum buildup, but honestly hardly anything. I put my nose down in there and it just smelled like water and cleaner so I knew it wasn't the source of the smell. I used a reusable straw cleaning brush and went to town on the the corners of the pan and under the tile where I could get the brush in there. The spacing between the tile and the pan varies. The back corners of the pan I can fit my finger in between the tile and pan. In the middle I can't even fit any cleaning brush it's so little gap. The front of the shower is also a small gap where you can hardly fit a human hair between the tile and the pan. Anyways, with the small brush I scrubbed for a few hours hoping that the smell was something in the gap and OMG the GUNK that I dislodged and flushed out was INSANE. Orange gunk, Brown gunk, green gunk, and black gunk that smelled like that earthy mold. The old hard caulking pieces was also being flushed out from when the vendor tried to chip it all out and wasn't able to get it all out. It was black and orange and slimy from sitting in there. I flushed a ton of water through there trying to get it all out to see if that was the source of the smell and it seems like it is. It smells A LOT better today. However, after I was done cleaning I noticed the grout on the tile floor (not so much outside the shower, but in the middle of the floor) was SOAKED and you could see other areas of the grout on the floor starting to wick up the water. I stepped in a wet spot on the carpet too and peeled back the carpet a bit to see that the subfloor floor and the padding outside the bathroom in the bedroom is also VERY wet and it had also dripped down into the garage through the ceiling. (our master bath is above our garage). To better understand how it is all put together, I came to UA-cam. I am wondering if they didn't install any water barrier or if there is a hole in it. This was a great video to help me understand how it all is put together. Thank you!
Oh boy. Well, it sounds like you have a slap-dash builder-special job that was done. If I follow your story correctly, the water you were using to flush out the bottom area of the tile found it's way to the bath floor. You didn't mention if you have shower doors or not, which is one place water could escape. Otherwise, it may be that the water was pushed over the shower base lip or that there is no shower base lip, which is possible. About all you can do at this point is clean out the gap between the tile and pan, let it dry thoroughly, and then caulk that gap with a high quality silicone caulk. If that fails, you're into removing the tile and starting over. My flashing system isn't the only way to handle protection in that area, but it has never failed me. You might take a look at this video as well: ua-cam.com/video/FYSZQp-Y_kI/v-deo.html
enduringcharm Yes, you got it. It’s somehow escaping the pan and getting under and wetting the floor. I was working in the door so I wasn’t really splashing water towards the door at all. The builders warranty department is coming out Tuesday to take a look since we made previous complaints about wet grout and smelly shower. Hopefully something is wrong and it’s causing all these issues and they tear it out and fix it.
Nice video! I have a similar shower base and was confused how the backer board and tile would work. I was thinking this was the only way to do it, but needed confirmation as I'm a weekend warrior 😂. Thanks again!
Thanks for all your help. Cannot find protecto wrap. Have you tried Nashua aqua seal tape black. Wondering if hydroban will stick to that product. Thanks again
Don't stress about the brand, it's not important. These days I prefer Zip System Stretch Tape flashing, which is available at Home Depot or Lowes. The flashing is just protection for potential future problems, and it will probably never be needed if the tile job is maintained. You should see this video too: ua-cam.com/video/y3bpE-GhYUM/v-deo.htmlsi=blPCqZ5sIEEZ8_hO
wallboard should always sit on top of that pan Edge and the tile should overlap, that way if water gets underneath it doesn't absorb into your wall board , as tile is not porous and will not absorb the water
+Bobby D Actually, wallboard is no longer used as a backer in the industry. Cement board is the standard now, along with proprietary systems like the Schluter company makes. Cement board manufacturers specify an overlap of the lip, but in certain cases that's simply not possible, which is why I use this waterproofing system in the video.
Tiled shower floors remind me of showering at a gym or those outdoor beach showers. I like the visual cleanliness, ease of cleaning, decreased leak risk, and ease of installation of a shower pan
Question… my new home has the gap between the tile and pan grouted then caulked over that… is this a problem? I’m guessing they flex differently and grout will crack however it is caulked over. Should I dig grout out and just recaulk? Thanks so much….
It won't really do harm, other than it may become difficult to clean and the caulk may not last long. Since it's new, I would just let it ride for a year or so until the grout is due for replacement anyway. At that time you can dig out the caulk and the grout and refresh with a color matched silicone caulk.
Really appreciate your video. When I removed the old tub/wall combo in my '86 manufactured home, it was glued to drywall, and when I removed that drywall, it ripped off the paper backing of most of the fiberglass insulation. (R-19) Insulation is not water-damaged, just a bit torn. Do you recommend replacing the insulation, or will the plastic sheeting be enough of a vapor barrier? I'm not worried about a permit.
I must admit to being ignorant of some manufactured home details, but I know from comments on this channel that there can be idiosyncrasies. If you are speaking of typical fiberglass insulation with a kraft facing, then that vapor and air barrier is needed. One option is just to repair the torn paper, if the damage is not extensive. You could use a house wrap tape of any brand. If the damage is extensive, you could remove all of the paper and replace it with a new barrier of your own, or you could remove everything and start over. Take a look at the R value of what was originally installed. You might find it is inadequate by today's standards anyway, and it would be worth replacing it with insulation of a higher R value.
Thanks for your time! I'll just get new R21. For my house, the exterior walls are 2x6 and 16" OC studs, and interior walls are 2x3 and 24" OC studs. Bathtub is 4.5' instead of 5'. Really nice work on the white built-in cabinets on your website. Cheers, man.@@enduringcharm
I am currently installing a shower base but i am still debating whether if i should put the hardibacker board on top of the base or have it drop down into the base ? Because i watched another video that recommend if putting it right on top of the base can create a weak point when it gets tiled and eventually break, so what do you recommend?
Oh, man. I get this question all the time and I literally just filmed a video on the subject yesterday. I haven't had an opportunity to edit and publish it yet, though! The short of it is that I recommend using this self adhesive flashing either way. If you can shim out the backerboard so that it overlaps the tile flange, I would do so. However, there are lots of reasons that you may not be able to shim out the backerboard, including the construction of the room and the design of the pan or tub. It's fine to put the backer on top of the flange in that case, and the flashing will prevent any future water intrusion. If you can wait a few days I'll have the new video up for you to watch!
When the time comes to replace the caulk at the tile/base won't it be nearly impossible to remove the old caulk (most likely a silicone based product) without damaging the flashing? Also, why not use non backed insulation under the plastic wall barrier?
No, the silicone caulk comes right off, just as it would when installed directly onto the tub or pan lip. I've done this countless times. As far as the insulation, it's important to understand the issue. First, we are talking about exterior walls. Insulation installed in interior walls may be there for sound absorption, and that's not an issue. On exterior walls, though, you don't want to create a double vapor barrier, because that could trap moisture as it migrates. If you put, say, three feet of plastic over insulation which already has a vapor barrier, that will be okay because moisture can migrate through the rest of the wall area. If you cover the entire wall area, though, you will have created a double barrier. If you wanted to install non-backed insulation and then cover the entire wall with plastic, that would only be a single layer. However, plastic doesn't allow ANY migration of moisture, so I prefer to stick with the standard paper-backed insulation if I'm using fiberglass.
Insulation in the wall is incredibly poor, however your prep for tile on this is brilliant. The flashing tape mixed with the plastic is fantastic and I’ll definitely be doing that next time I prep for a pan like this
That was the original insulation in the house. Unfortunately, if I remove that and replace it with new insulation I also need to get a permit and have an inspection. Since the rest of that exterior wall in the house is insulated in the same manner, it generally isn't worth much to replace a small section in the shower area--unless I discover that there is air leakage or the potential for plumbing to freeze. Things were not always done well in the past but part of remodeling is making decisions about where to stop, often dictated by budget concerns.
enduringcharm oh I know all too well about those decisions as I do remodels myself, I was just making a comment about it not blaming you for it, most older homes have insulation installed haphazard like that
hello sir is it possible to install a pony wall next to shower pan or i guess outside pan??we would prefer wall instead of glass door.. thank you for video
The concern is creating a double vapor barrier, which could trap moisture. This is a valid concern. I put up a three foot high section of plastic which does not cover the whole wall, and that allows moisture to move around and not get trapped. If you put up plastic over the entire section of wall AND you have insulation with a vapor barrier installed you could invite problems. So, either remove the insulation vapor barrier and use plastic everywhere, or just keep the plastic to a small section. More information is here: ua-cam.com/video/FYSZQp-Y_kI/v-deo.html
Love this idea. When I’m screwing the durock in, is there any concern that the screw head will penetrate and put a hole in the flashing tape/vapor barrier? Seems to me you wouldn’t want to puncture that. Thx for lending your expertise!
First, let me encourage you to consider using Hardibacker rather than Durock. The hardibacker product is not porous and it offers a stiffer underlayment. That said, the flashing is there really for an emergency in the event that something goes wrong in the future. Under normal circumstances you really shouldn't be getting any water behind the tile. And, for instances like a tiled shower floor where you actually need complete waterproofing, I use the Schluter membrane, which is run up the wall too.
We don't use greenboard made of gypsum anymore--wicking is really not an issue with a product like Hardibacker cement board. And, some tub or shower bases don't even have a lip. Moreover, if you plan on installing a small format tile like a subway tile, you need to install the backer over the lip. Otherwise, there won't be enough tile surface adhered to the backer, since the lip area offers no adhesion. Finally, if you do install the backerboard on top of the lip (which is sometimes necessary) then you still need to fill the lip area with thinset to provide support for the tile. If anything, thinset would be more likely to absorb and retain moisture than Hardibacker. It is the caulking which prevents water from getting behind the tiled surface at the juncture of the tub and tile. My flashing system is intended to provide additional protection in the event a homeowner fails to maintain that caulk or the grout. As with most things in remodeling, there is rarely a simple answer.
I've done many dozens of baths with the flashing detail. It's easier to flash the corners with smaller pieces first and then run long lengths to meet in the corners. These days I prefer the use of Zip System stretch tape, which will easily conform to the contours of the lip.
For waterproofing purposes, is it recommended to also cover the fastener heads in the cement board prior to tile installation? Or will the thinset itself serve as waterproofing protection at the time the tiles are installed? Just curious about common practice. I will be using the new Hardiebacker Hydro Defense cement board in my shower, which is supposed to be waterproof regardless.
You'll get different answers depending on the person answering. My opinion is that "waterproofing" in the sense of making the tile surface itself impervious to water is over-hyped. Of course in some cases it is necessary, such as a shower with a tiled floor. In that case I use the Schluter membrane. In commercial applications I would also use it, because that means constant water all day long. But, in a residential shower or bath with a quality tile job, I do not think it is always necessary to waterproof the entire surface when using a product like Hardibacker (I don't use the crumbly and porous brands of backerboard). That's a roundabout way of telling you that if you use backer-board screws designed for the hardibacker you are using, you don't need to waterproof them.
A pet peeve of mine is how manufacturers often pass the buck when it comes to installation details. Many times the directions are generic and apply to many different models. The installer is left to make heads or tails of vague instructions. As a general rule I like to screw into the studs even when bedded in mortar. You have to make a judgement call about the suitability of the pan material to handle screws. In any case, be sure to use shims if needed so that you aren't bending the flange when you drive the screw home. Check out these two videos as well: ua-cam.com/video/PUTyeD-jyeY/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/uY0JIcE_irM/v-deo.html
Thinset mortar is what is used to adhere the tile to the wall. Joint compound is what is used to feather the edges between wallboard outside the shower and backerboard inside the shower. You should not tile over joint compound without thoroughly priming it first and letting that paint cure.
Your video is great but I have a question. I have a shower pan where my backerboard will rest on the edge like the one in this video. What do you do with the Protecto Wrap that is showing over the edge of the shower pan? I know it needs to stay, but should I tile that far down over the shower pan? I am at a loss on what to do with that because I wasn't sure that I could go down that far because i didn't think I could apply tile that low . Can I?
I just released a new video which will answer a lot of your questions, I think. The link is below. The tile does come down over the lip of the tub or pan, leaving a gap about the same width as your grout line. That final gap is caulked, not grouted though. Check out this video: ua-cam.com/video/FYSZQp-Y_kI/v-deo.html
I would not recommend that. It isn't completely waterproof, it will tend to rip, and it will degrade over time. Another option is to omit the plastic behind the backerboard and install something like Schluter Kerdi membrane on the surface.
Not sure i agree with this. If water does get behind the Duroc it will still pool onto the floor surrounding the shower. I just did this the last week but the more I looked at it the more I felt was useless. The shower base or tub has a lip that is very hard for water to climb up over to begin with. just a thought, I could very well be wrong.
You may be missing the point. The flashing is installed not for everyday use but for a problem in the future. Under normal conditions the tile is installed down to the tub or pan, and caulked at that intersection. If the tile is properly installed and well maintained then water will never get behind the tile, and certainly not behind the backerboard. If you have a teenager in the house taking a two hour long shower you might get some dampness through the grout lines onto the backerboard at the lower area. Now consider a different scenario. After ten years the homeowner does not maintain the installation. The caulk has dried up and come out. The house framing was poorly done and moves with seasonal expansion and contraction, which in turn has caused the grout to crack and fall out. The wife likes to put her foot up on the alcove to shave her legs, and that has cracked over time from the weight. Now you could have water getting behind the tile and behind the backerboard. The flashing will help direct that water back into the tub and avoid a complete disaster. The flashing is also useful when the backerboard must be installed on the top of the lip rather than over the lip because it provides a measure of protection.
@@enduringcharm Got you, I though the flashing was to catch and water seeping through the Duroc or the joints or corners. Expecting the flashing to catch in and direct it back into the pan seemed far fetched. I stand corrected. Thank you.
It would depend on how you are handling the rest of the room. It's possible, if the concrete slab is smooth and well done that you can put the pan right on the surface. If you are using the Schluter Ditra product in the rest of the room (see my video on that product--perfect for this situation) to go up to the edge of the shower pan, I might also suggest using the Schluter membrane under the shower pan. It may help prevent moisture migration from under the slab reaching the underside of the pan and causing mildew or mold issues later. You can put a bedding material right on top of that for the pan.
I just installed a swanstone that won't allow you to screw through the shower flange, had to put nail over the top then Bend flush. Now as I'm adding the HardieBacker, the window seal flashing is slightly tearing at each nail. Real bummer.
You can still use screws, but you need to find screws with a truss (flat) head and enough length. Isn't the Swanstone also set in mortar? That will help hold it place too. Anyway, if you've already used the nails a small tear in the flashing isn't the end of the world. It will still offer protection in the event of a future problem. You could also smear a little clear silicone over the tear if you wish. It sounds like the flashing was a little bit proud of the studs and when you secured the backerboard it pulled in and pulled the flashing with it.
@@enduringcharm You were reading my mind, before tiling I'll add a little bit of silicone to those areas, wasn't a lot of areas but I still wish I could have gone through the flange with screws. Not sure why the manufacturer doesn't allow that. And you are correct, I set it in a bed of mortar so it's very solid. Thanks much! Your videos are very informative.
There would be no point installing both Durock and the Schluter Ditra if that's what you mean. The Ditra uncoupling membrane can go right over plywood. If you're talking about Schluter Kerdi, which is the waterproofing membrane, that can go over Durock or Hardi or even drywall.
I install the flashing and the plastic to prevent water from doing damage in the future in case there is a problem, such as a homeowner not maintaining the grout or caulking, or significant framing movement. But, in the normal course of use there's shouldn't be any water seepage. In a residential bath it's probably no more than a couple of showers a day, and the tile, grout and caulk should keep any water from even getting to the backerboard.
@@enduringcharm I do have a question? Do you know any good systems for a lipless tub. Have a job coming up and owner wants to keep the tub they have an retile but it's rounded over metal coated. They sprung a leak and very limited space with plaster walls? It's a lot of work to water tight it didnt know if you knew of a add on lip system.
Two comments on that question. First, you did jog my memory about an add-on lip for tubs. There are some available, including one I remember from a major manufacturer, perhaps Kohler. Some are generic third party, some are designed for a specific tub. All, as far as I know, rely on sticky tape or caulk to do the job. I'm not a big fan of the idea. When sticky-back or caulk is the ONLY barrier against water intrusion your odds of success go way down over the long haul. And, you said your customer has already experienced a leak with a steel or cast tub which are prone to rusting anyway. That brings me to the second comment. If you are doing this for a living, it's your business and your reputation. It turns out the customer is not always right. You do yourself no favors by ignoring your better judgement in favor of a customer's opinion that "it'll be fine." Maybe it won't be fine, and you know who will get the blame. My advice would be to have a detailed conversation with the customer about the risks and to steer them toward a new tub with an integral lip. If the money isn't there for that solution or they push back, you may just want to walk away from the job. At the very least, put in writing your concerns and have them sign off on accepting the risk. I've had my business for 15 years now through some tough times, but I never compromised on a basic level of performance and competence. Some clients can afford to do everything perfectly and update every detail, and some can only afford to get the basics right and may need to accept minor existing imperfections. But I've never gone below that threshold into quick-fixes or shoddy work. So, explain to your customer what's going on and if they can't or won't step up, then think carefully about taking the job or not.
@@enduringcharm oh I am completely in agreence. The tub in this situation is spectacular in shape and it runs with the rest of the house. Ergo why they want to keep it. The hole was actually in the little soap niche and I suspect it's an issue. But looks like they plastered and built it out. So not sure what to expect but the tub is definitely high end stuff. It's certainly one of those jobs that dont come around to often.
Kelly Williams You know, I haven't filmed a pan installation yet, mostly because it's me and my plumber running around in a tight space so it's tough to do. I'll keep it mind for the future, though.
Followed your recommendation of using the window flashing and 4 mil plastic over that. I used durock cement backer board instead of hardiebacker. Do I need to apply anything as far as waterproofing to the cement board before tiling besides mesh tape on the joints? Shower is in against an exterior corner wall of the home.
I have to say, I'm not a fan of Durock. It's porous and does not offer the rigidity or moisture resistance of Hardibacker fiber cement board. Since you've already put it up, I would install Schluter Kerdi membrane over the entire surface, which will keep moisture and water out.
For shower or tub walls you need 1/2" cement board and I would encourage you to try Hardibacker rather than Durock. It's stiffer, it's not porous, and it makes for a nicer installation in my opinion. On floors the structure is provided by the plywood underneath and the cement board is just for adhesion of the tile. You can use 1/4" or 1/2" id you like, but 1/4" is typical unless you have a need for additional height (thickness).
@@enduringcharm My installation calls for furring strips and 1/2" panel, I'm thinking of using double 1/4 hardibackers so that it's flush with the sorrounding drywall of 1/2". Do you see any issues with this?
I would not recommend using double 1/4" hardibacker (or other brand) for the walls. The half inch hardibacker is used on walls because it is stiffer and can span the distance between studs. A double layer of 1/4" boards will not have the same effect. I have a number of other videos showing how to handle the transition between the hardibacker and drywall. Essentially you can use drywall compound to feather the difference as long as your thoroughly prime the compound and let that paint cure (not just dry) before tiling.
I think you may have misunderstood the point of shower pans. The type shown in the video is the finished shower floor--there is no tile. If you want a tiled shower floor see my other videos on the Schluter shower base system. There is also a company that makes a specialty base which is solid and meant to be tiled over, but I've not used it. The Schluter system is the industry leader for tiled floors.
Typically I make the corner grout line the same as the rest of the field. However, I don't like to exceed 1/8 on an inch or so. If you will be caulking the corners with a silicone caulk (rather than relying on grout) then the caulk make cover the gap anyway.
Great video. I am confused though. Down below you indicate CB companies like the cement board over the flange. You also suggest this earlier in the video as your preference. Then you mention when shimming causes the drywall not to be in plain with the CB board, you put it above the flange as you have no choice. Then you say CB companies want it above the flange {anyway.} If you were to shim that one side, couldn't grout fill the gap that 3/8" offset? Did you say your purchased the protect film at Lowes? I am not seeing any that has a sticky side to it.
I think I might have been talking about either the shower pan manufacturer or the Hardi company when discussing the position of the backer board--there can be conflicting advice. Essentially, its preferable to have the cement board overlap the pan flange if possible. That often means shimming out the wall (resist any temptation to notch the studs, which is against code). In instances where you can't shim out the wall or for some other reason the backer must sit on top of the flange, I believe my trick of using the self-adhesive flashing is a good practice. It's inexpensive and it could help prevent a problem in the future if the caulk or grout in the shower is not maintained well. You can find it at Home Cheapo or Lowes in the aisle where they keep gutters, metal flashing, cement products and roofing products. Just ask for self-adhesive window and door roll flashing.
Thank you again! I found the flashing at Lowe's. Not finding that protective green wrap yet. I see on the John Bridge tile forum it seems generally they run the plastic barrier all the way up the top. If the insulation vapor barrier is facing toward the wall rather than inside like yours, should it run all the way up?I really tried hard to go with the CB over the flange. But with the shower base flange being 1/4", it was just too much for the rest of the wall. Hence, I am opting to go the way you have shown on this video {with just the questions I just mention above.}
The protective wrap can be found in the carpet section, and it may be clear not green. As for the plastic, I do not run it all the way up for two reasons. First, if there is insulation present you could create a double vapor barrier since the insulation already has one. That can trap moisture (walls do "breathe' and moisture does travel). Second, any leak I've ever found in a shower occurred in the first 3-4 feet off the floor, so I see no purpose in running the plastic up to the ceiling.
Did you accidentally stick it where it shouldn't be? You can just rip it off like a band-aid. There will be residue that will wipe off with a squirt of WD-40 or Goo-Gone and a rag.
It happens all the time. This stuff is normally used outdoors for flashing windows and doors. Generally as soon as you get up on a ladder and peel off the backing the wind will pick up. You'll either end up with flashing stuck together in a ball, or stuck to your ladder. Also, if it's your last piece of flashing from the roll, the wind will be twice as strong.
Why wouldn’t you use Redgard over the hardy backer ?? Your hoping that the grout joints hold up and unless maintained they won’t now your hardy backer is exposed. Two coats of Redgard turns your grout to a cosmetic step. Can’t leak won’t leak.
I hear so many comments about Regard that they must be doing a great job of marketing. But, that's what it is--marketing. There are instances (shown in some of my other videos) where I do need continuous waterproofing, such as when I tile the floor of a shower. In those cases I use the Schluter system Kerdi membrane. I made another video some years ago about waterproofing, showing that even in the old days when tile was installed over drywall, it often lasted for decades. We don't use that method anymore because when plumbing leaks happened or when an escutcheon wasn't sealed, it would turn to mush or even get moldy. Hardibacker doesn't turn to mush. I've remodeled maybe 60 or more bathrooms and done various repairs in dozens more. After you take apart that many baths and put them back together you see where the typical problems lie. If you want to use your Redgard somewhere, use it to cover the plywood between the edge of the tub and the edge of the tile before you put down the backerboard on the floor. That's where I consistently find water damage.
This just shows there are multiple ways of doing a job right. I am in the process of installing a shower pan and plan on using Redguard But you gave me a good point by putting down some plastic waterproof tape under the shower pan
quick question, how do you know the tile adhesive will stick to the winodw flashing you put over the lip of the bathtub? I am tiling a bathroom shower and the bathtub instructions say to have druwall flush with the bathtub lip and cement board on top of the drywall and over the bathtub lip. But that means the shower walls will stick out passed the bathroom walls and I don't want that.
You've confused several things. First, the adhesive flashing is installed just on the lip of the tub/shower and then goes behind the backerboard. Very little of the flashing shows after the backerboard is applied. Second, there is no drywall installed behind the backerboard--the cement backerboard is applied directly to the studs. By using half inch backer, you can transition to drywall outside of the shower area to be tiled. I have a few other videos showing the tiling process and I suggest you watch them too to get a better sense of the work: ua-cam.com/play/PLD4oAOZqK9mCjvmw_nUkZBrPPXf_20Lad.html
Thank you for your reply. I understand the cement board in your installation will go above the window flashing, but I was talking about the few mm's under the cement board until you get to the upper lip of the tub, that area will be only window flashing and the thin-set will be applied on it and tiles above it. I know its not much, but that's my question if thin-set will stick to the few mm's which will touch the window flashing.When I said drywall, that's what the instruction of my bathtub show. It shows drywall flush with the bathtub, then cement board going on top of the drywall and going down to over the bathtub's lip, then tiles on top of the cement board
Okay, well, disregard the bathtub instructions you are reading! You should not have drywall behind the cement backerboard at all. It does not even meet current codes. If you wish to "pack out" the cement backerboard to have it go past the lip, then use plywood strips. As for the small amount of flashing at the bottom, keep in mind that the tile--even a small tile--will be mostly adhered to the cement backerboard. Only an inch at most extends below the backerboard to just above the tub or pan. That small area is filled with thinset to provide backing, but if that small section doesn't adhere it isn't an issue because the tile is held in place by the area adhered to the backerboard.
***** I use Zinnser 123 latex primer. It's tough, dries quickly and covers very well. I very rarely use oil based primer for anything these days. Formulations have changed dramatically in recent years and there is almost no reason to need oil based paint anymore. Once in a blue moon I'll be painting antique wood that has been treated with linseed oil or has an oil based window glazing used and then I'll turn to an oil based primer.
Think people get a lil crazy about waterproofing showers and tubs....sure it needs to be done, but nothing lasts forever and in 20 yrs give or take it will be redone....use common sense, experience and tell homeowner every few years to re seal grout.....some of these shluter systems are ridiculously expensive and not necessary.......maintenence is most important aspect of leaks, mold...if water gets behind the tile I don't care what you do it will rot....it should never get back there in first place!
Couldn't agree more. There is an obsession with waterproofing the tile field of showers now, driven by marketing. That's not where I find rot or water when I take apart bathrooms. I find the problems at the bottom edges of tubs or pans on the floor, I find them under poorly detailed escutcheons, I find them behind tub edges that were not caulked or maintained, I find them under toilets in the floor, etc. Not ever have I found rot or moisture in the middle of a shower wall. Not once in 60-70 bath remodels.
As a Builder myself, i can say that this is also what i have done on my builds. I use denshield as my backer.. its has waterproof built in no need for any other coating other thn sealing the seams with mesh and 1 cost of mortar being used for tile.
this is just what i was looking for...instructions for doing something to avoid future issues - even if it shouldn't be a problem. Want to do a simple but thorough job the 1st time.
I really like your detailed commentary and thought out answers to questions. Helped a lot
Thanks!
Fantastic video, exactly what I needed to learn for my current project. Thanks!
Love your videos. Thank you so much for your patience and informative videos. Helps us all! You’re the man!
This is an excellent video!
We built our house a year and 6 months ago (Ryan/NVR Homes). When they installed our tile in the shower, they grouted/hard caulked the bottom where the tile meets the pan and every time we would shower, our grout on our tile floor outside the shower would get soaking wet. SO, they sent in their tile vendor (Rite Rug) and the employee spent HOURS chipping away at that hard caulk leaving an open gap most of the way around where the tile meets the pan. However, shortly after we started to get a bad sewer smell & I was always flushing mildew and mold floaties out of that gap when I cleaned the shower (I was using a toothbrush to try and get in the gap). Cleaning would help with the smell for a little, but it would always come back. Eventually the sewer smell turned into an onion smell. Ryan Homes told me it was just the drain that smelled and I needed to clean it. Well, I cleaned it and it was hardly dirty. A little scum buildup, but honestly hardly anything. I put my nose down in there and it just smelled like water and cleaner so I knew it wasn't the source of the smell. I used a reusable straw cleaning brush and went to town on the the corners of the pan and under the tile where I could get the brush in there. The spacing between the tile and the pan varies. The back corners of the pan I can fit my finger in between the tile and pan. In the middle I can't even fit any cleaning brush it's so little gap. The front of the shower is also a small gap where you can hardly fit a human hair between the tile and the pan. Anyways, with the small brush I scrubbed for a few hours hoping that the smell was something in the gap and OMG the GUNK that I dislodged and flushed out was INSANE. Orange gunk, Brown gunk, green gunk, and black gunk that smelled like that earthy mold. The old hard caulking pieces was also being flushed out from when the vendor tried to chip it all out and wasn't able to get it all out. It was black and orange and slimy from sitting in there. I flushed a ton of water through there trying to get it all out to see if that was the source of the smell and it seems like it is. It smells A LOT better today. However, after I was done cleaning I noticed the grout on the tile floor (not so much outside the shower, but in the middle of the floor) was SOAKED and you could see other areas of the grout on the floor starting to wick up the water. I stepped in a wet spot on the carpet too and peeled back the carpet a bit to see that the subfloor floor and the padding outside the bathroom in the bedroom is also VERY wet and it had also dripped down into the garage through the ceiling. (our master bath is above our garage). To better understand how it is all put together, I came to UA-cam. I am wondering if they didn't install any water barrier or if there is a hole in it. This was a great video to help me understand how it all is put together. Thank you!
Oh boy. Well, it sounds like you have a slap-dash builder-special job that was done. If I follow your story correctly, the water you were using to flush out the bottom area of the tile found it's way to the bath floor. You didn't mention if you have shower doors or not, which is one place water could escape. Otherwise, it may be that the water was pushed over the shower base lip or that there is no shower base lip, which is possible.
About all you can do at this point is clean out the gap between the tile and pan, let it dry thoroughly, and then caulk that gap with a high quality silicone caulk. If that fails, you're into removing the tile and starting over. My flashing system isn't the only way to handle protection in that area, but it has never failed me. You might take a look at this video as well:
ua-cam.com/video/FYSZQp-Y_kI/v-deo.html
enduringcharm Yes, you got it. It’s somehow escaping the pan and getting under and wetting the floor. I was working in the door so I wasn’t really splashing water towards the door at all.
The builders warranty department is coming out Tuesday to take a look since we made previous complaints about wet grout and smelly shower. Hopefully something is wrong and it’s causing all these issues and they tear it out and fix it.
Looks great. Reminds me of my recent shower job. I'd like to see the next steps how it was tiled.
And here’s me thinking you can’t teach an old dog NEW tricks. Thanks for your expertise.
Nice video! I have a similar shower base and was confused how the backer board and tile would work. I was thinking this was the only way to do it, but needed confirmation as I'm a weekend warrior 😂. Thanks again!
You should see these two videos, then, which will be helpful: ua-cam.com/video/PUTyeD-jyeY/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/FYSZQp-Y_kI/v-deo.html
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I like the sill tape! that is actually a pretty good idea
I see a Grohe plumbing fixture !! Good choice ! mine is working great and is so much easier to clean and repair if necessary !
Good videos !
Awesome tip. Thanks for posting.
Thanks for all your help. Cannot find protecto wrap. Have you tried Nashua aqua seal tape black. Wondering if hydroban will stick to that product. Thanks again
Don't stress about the brand, it's not important. These days I prefer Zip System Stretch Tape flashing, which is available at Home Depot or Lowes. The flashing is just protection for potential future problems, and it will probably never be needed if the tile job is maintained. You should see this video too: ua-cam.com/video/y3bpE-GhYUM/v-deo.htmlsi=blPCqZ5sIEEZ8_hO
wallboard should always sit on top of that pan Edge and the tile should overlap, that way if water gets underneath it doesn't absorb into your wall board , as tile is not porous and will not absorb the water
+Bobby D Actually, wallboard is no longer used as a backer in the industry. Cement board is the standard now, along with proprietary systems like the Schluter company makes. Cement board manufacturers specify an overlap of the lip, but in certain cases that's simply not possible, which is why I use this waterproofing system in the video.
great job of explaining this type of job.
Tiled shower floors remind me of showering at a gym or those outdoor beach showers. I like the visual cleanliness, ease of cleaning, decreased leak risk, and ease of installation of a shower pan
Thank you loved the videos, very helpful. Gutting my bathroom so I will be using many of your tips. Thanks Again!
Question… my new home has the gap between the tile and pan grouted then caulked over that… is this a problem? I’m guessing they flex differently and grout will crack however it is caulked over. Should I dig grout out and just recaulk? Thanks so much….
It won't really do harm, other than it may become difficult to clean and the caulk may not last long. Since it's new, I would just let it ride for a year or so until the grout is due for replacement anyway. At that time you can dig out the caulk and the grout and refresh with a color matched silicone caulk.
Good information, thanks!
Really appreciate your video. When I removed the old tub/wall combo in my '86 manufactured home, it was glued to drywall, and when I removed that drywall, it ripped off the paper backing of most of the fiberglass insulation. (R-19) Insulation is not water-damaged, just a bit torn. Do you recommend replacing the insulation, or will the plastic sheeting be enough of a vapor barrier? I'm not worried about a permit.
I must admit to being ignorant of some manufactured home details, but I know from comments on this channel that there can be idiosyncrasies. If you are speaking of typical fiberglass insulation with a kraft facing, then that vapor and air barrier is needed. One option is just to repair the torn paper, if the damage is not extensive. You could use a house wrap tape of any brand. If the damage is extensive, you could remove all of the paper and replace it with a new barrier of your own, or you could remove everything and start over. Take a look at the R value of what was originally installed. You might find it is inadequate by today's standards anyway, and it would be worth replacing it with insulation of a higher R value.
Thanks for your time! I'll just get new R21. For my house, the exterior walls are 2x6 and 16" OC studs, and interior walls are 2x3 and 24" OC studs. Bathtub is 4.5' instead of 5'. Really nice work on the white built-in cabinets on your website. Cheers, man.@@enduringcharm
I am currently installing a shower base but i am still debating whether if i should put the hardibacker board on top of the base or have it drop down into the base ? Because i watched another video that recommend if putting it right on top of the base can create a weak point when it gets tiled and eventually break, so what do you recommend?
Oh, man. I get this question all the time and I literally just filmed a video on the subject yesterday. I haven't had an opportunity to edit and publish it yet, though! The short of it is that I recommend using this self adhesive flashing either way. If you can shim out the backerboard so that it overlaps the tile flange, I would do so. However, there are lots of reasons that you may not be able to shim out the backerboard, including the construction of the room and the design of the pan or tub. It's fine to put the backer on top of the flange in that case, and the flashing will prevent any future water intrusion. If you can wait a few days I'll have the new video up for you to watch!
Here's the video I promised you! ua-cam.com/video/FYSZQp-Y_kI/v-deo.html
When the time comes to replace the caulk at the tile/base won't it be nearly impossible to remove the old caulk (most likely a silicone based product) without damaging the flashing? Also, why not use non backed insulation under the plastic wall barrier?
No, the silicone caulk comes right off, just as it would when installed directly onto the tub or pan lip. I've done this countless times. As far as the insulation, it's important to understand the issue. First, we are talking about exterior walls. Insulation installed in interior walls may be there for sound absorption, and that's not an issue. On exterior walls, though, you don't want to create a double vapor barrier, because that could trap moisture as it migrates. If you put, say, three feet of plastic over insulation which already has a vapor barrier, that will be okay because moisture can migrate through the rest of the wall area. If you cover the entire wall area, though, you will have created a double barrier. If you wanted to install non-backed insulation and then cover the entire wall with plastic, that would only be a single layer. However, plastic doesn't allow ANY migration of moisture, so I prefer to stick with the standard paper-backed insulation if I'm using fiberglass.
Insulation in the wall is incredibly poor, however your prep for tile on this is brilliant. The flashing tape mixed with the plastic is fantastic and I’ll definitely be doing that next time I prep for a pan like this
That was the original insulation in the house. Unfortunately, if I remove that and replace it with new insulation I also need to get a permit and have an inspection. Since the rest of that exterior wall in the house is insulated in the same manner, it generally isn't worth much to replace a small section in the shower area--unless I discover that there is air leakage or the potential for plumbing to freeze. Things were not always done well in the past but part of remodeling is making decisions about where to stop, often dictated by budget concerns.
enduringcharm oh I know all too well about those decisions as I do remodels myself, I was just making a comment about it not blaming you for it, most older homes have insulation installed haphazard like that
Great video. 👍
Beautiful work
hello sir is it possible to install a pony wall next to shower pan or i guess outside pan??we would prefer wall instead of glass door.. thank you for video
Well, I actually have an entire video devoted to that very subject! See it here: ua-cam.com/video/DcsG61hnxgA/v-deo.html
I was told you cant put plastic on top of the insulation on an interior wall that is also exterior, what are your thoughts?
The concern is creating a double vapor barrier, which could trap moisture. This is a valid concern. I put up a three foot high section of plastic which does not cover the whole wall, and that allows moisture to move around and not get trapped. If you put up plastic over the entire section of wall AND you have insulation with a vapor barrier installed you could invite problems. So, either remove the insulation vapor barrier and use plastic everywhere, or just keep the plastic to a small section. More information is here:
ua-cam.com/video/FYSZQp-Y_kI/v-deo.html
Love this idea. When I’m screwing the durock in, is there any concern that the screw head will penetrate and put a hole in the flashing tape/vapor barrier? Seems to me you wouldn’t want to puncture that. Thx for lending your expertise!
First, let me encourage you to consider using Hardibacker rather than Durock. The hardibacker product is not porous and it offers a stiffer underlayment. That said, the flashing is there really for an emergency in the event that something goes wrong in the future. Under normal circumstances you really shouldn't be getting any water behind the tile. And, for instances like a tiled shower floor where you actually need complete waterproofing, I use the Schluter membrane, which is run up the wall too.
Thank you! My installation is coming along nicely!
Can you use tar paper for water proofing .inside behind the cement board?
No, I would not recommend that. Use any brand self adhesive flashing and/or sheet plastic of 4 mil or thicker.
Going over the flange is never correct because of wicking. That shower base manufacturer made you do it right by design. Smart.
We don't use greenboard made of gypsum anymore--wicking is really not an issue with a product like Hardibacker cement board. And, some tub or shower bases don't even have a lip. Moreover, if you plan on installing a small format tile like a subway tile, you need to install the backer over the lip. Otherwise, there won't be enough tile surface adhered to the backer, since the lip area offers no adhesion. Finally, if you do install the backerboard on top of the lip (which is sometimes necessary) then you still need to fill the lip area with thinset to provide support for the tile. If anything, thinset would be more likely to absorb and retain moisture than Hardibacker. It is the caulking which prevents water from getting behind the tiled surface at the juncture of the tub and tile. My flashing system is intended to provide additional protection in the event a homeowner fails to maintain that caulk or the grout. As with most things in remodeling, there is rarely a simple answer.
Hi, My backer board is not flush with the flange, the backer board is out a bit. What to do
Perfectly normal. Watch this video: ua-cam.com/video/y3bpE-GhYUM/v-deo.html
Thanks for this - I’m going to do the same. Did you use one piece of flashing all the way around or one for each wall?
I've done many dozens of baths with the flashing detail. It's easier to flash the corners with smaller pieces first and then run long lengths to meet in the corners. These days I prefer the use of Zip System stretch tape, which will easily conform to the contours of the lip.
@@enduringcharm Thank you for the reply and tip
For waterproofing purposes, is it recommended to also cover the fastener heads in the cement board prior to tile installation? Or will the thinset itself serve as waterproofing protection at the time the tiles are installed? Just curious about common practice. I will be using the new Hardiebacker Hydro Defense cement board in my shower, which is supposed to be waterproof regardless.
You'll get different answers depending on the person answering. My opinion is that "waterproofing" in the sense of making the tile surface itself impervious to water is over-hyped. Of course in some cases it is necessary, such as a shower with a tiled floor. In that case I use the Schluter membrane. In commercial applications I would also use it, because that means constant water all day long. But, in a residential shower or bath with a quality tile job, I do not think it is always necessary to waterproof the entire surface when using a product like Hardibacker (I don't use the crumbly and porous brands of backerboard). That's a roundabout way of telling you that if you use backer-board screws designed for the hardibacker you are using, you don't need to waterproof them.
Excellent!
My pan manufacturer doesn’t say anything about screwing it in. It says to use mortar. Is that common? I feel I want to use screws regardless.
A pet peeve of mine is how manufacturers often pass the buck when it comes to installation details. Many times the directions are generic and apply to many different models. The installer is left to make heads or tails of vague instructions. As a general rule I like to screw into the studs even when bedded in mortar. You have to make a judgement call about the suitability of the pan material to handle screws. In any case, be sure to use shims if needed so that you aren't bending the flange when you drive the screw home. Check out these two videos as well:
ua-cam.com/video/PUTyeD-jyeY/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/uY0JIcE_irM/v-deo.html
enduringcharm awesome, thanks for your input!
enduringcharm would you happen to know if the rough side of hardie backer faces out or towards the studs?
you said if I use thinset mortar on the seams I need to use primer on it. By the way are the thinset mortar and joint compound the same thing.
Thinset mortar is what is used to adhere the tile to the wall. Joint compound is what is used to feather the edges between wallboard outside the shower and backerboard inside the shower. You should not tile over joint compound without thoroughly priming it first and letting that paint cure.
Thank you
Your video is great but I have a question. I have a shower pan where my backerboard will rest on the edge like the one in this video. What do you do with the Protecto Wrap that is showing over the edge of the shower pan? I know it needs to stay, but should I tile that far down over the shower pan? I am at a loss on what to do with that because I wasn't sure that I could go down that far because i didn't think I could apply tile that low . Can I?
I just released a new video which will answer a lot of your questions, I think. The link is below. The tile does come down over the lip of the tub or pan, leaving a gap about the same width as your grout line. That final gap is caulked, not grouted though. Check out this video:
ua-cam.com/video/FYSZQp-Y_kI/v-deo.html
Can tar paper be used instead of plastic?
I would not recommend that. It isn't completely waterproof, it will tend to rip, and it will degrade over time. Another option is to omit the plastic behind the backerboard and install something like Schluter Kerdi membrane on the surface.
Not sure i agree with this. If water does get behind the Duroc it will still pool onto the floor surrounding the shower. I just did this the last week but the more I looked at it the more I felt was useless. The shower base or tub has a lip that is very hard for water to climb up over to begin with. just a thought, I could very well be wrong.
You may be missing the point. The flashing is installed not for everyday use but for a problem in the future. Under normal conditions the tile is installed down to the tub or pan, and caulked at that intersection. If the tile is properly installed and well maintained then water will never get behind the tile, and certainly not behind the backerboard. If you have a teenager in the house taking a two hour long shower you might get some dampness through the grout lines onto the backerboard at the lower area.
Now consider a different scenario. After ten years the homeowner does not maintain the installation. The caulk has dried up and come out. The house framing was poorly done and moves with seasonal expansion and contraction, which in turn has caused the grout to crack and fall out. The wife likes to put her foot up on the alcove to shave her legs, and that has cracked over time from the weight. Now you could have water getting behind the tile and behind the backerboard. The flashing will help direct that water back into the tub and avoid a complete disaster. The flashing is also useful when the backerboard must be installed on the top of the lip rather than over the lip because it provides a measure of protection.
@@enduringcharm Got you, I though the flashing was to catch and water seeping through the Duroc or the joints or corners. Expecting the flashing to catch in and direct it back into the pan seemed far fetched. I stand corrected. Thank you.
What would you use under the shower pan in basements since it is concrete?
It would depend on how you are handling the rest of the room. It's possible, if the concrete slab is smooth and well done that you can put the pan right on the surface. If you are using the Schluter Ditra product in the rest of the room (see my video on that product--perfect for this situation) to go up to the edge of the shower pan, I might also suggest using the Schluter membrane under the shower pan. It may help prevent moisture migration from under the slab reaching the underside of the pan and causing mildew or mold issues later. You can put a bedding material right on top of that for the pan.
Thanks!
Thank you!
I just installed a swanstone that won't allow you to screw through the shower flange, had to put nail over the top then Bend flush.
Now as I'm adding the HardieBacker, the window seal flashing is slightly tearing at each nail.
Real bummer.
You can still use screws, but you need to find screws with a truss (flat) head and enough length. Isn't the Swanstone also set in mortar? That will help hold it place too. Anyway, if you've already used the nails a small tear in the flashing isn't the end of the world. It will still offer protection in the event of a future problem. You could also smear a little clear silicone over the tear if you wish. It sounds like the flashing was a little bit proud of the studs and when you secured the backerboard it pulled in and pulled the flashing with it.
@@enduringcharm You were reading my mind, before tiling I'll add a little bit of silicone to those areas, wasn't a lot of areas but I still wish I could have gone through the flange with screws. Not sure why the manufacturer doesn't allow that.
And you are correct, I set it in a bed of mortar so it's very solid.
Thanks much! Your videos are very informative.
Great video. I have a question. If I put durock on the floor, can I put the schluter ontop of the durock?
There would be no point installing both Durock and the Schluter Ditra if that's what you mean. The Ditra uncoupling membrane can go right over plywood. If you're talking about Schluter Kerdi, which is the waterproofing membrane, that can go over Durock or Hardi or even drywall.
enduringcharm, yes. I meant durock. I edited my post for future readers
Hardy back is my favorite to however its concrete which certainly is not waterproof. Ergo the plastic is standard for water seepage
I install the flashing and the plastic to prevent water from doing damage in the future in case there is a problem, such as a homeowner not maintaining the grout or caulking, or significant framing movement. But, in the normal course of use there's shouldn't be any water seepage. In a residential bath it's probably no more than a couple of showers a day, and the tile, grout and caulk should keep any water from even getting to the backerboard.
@@enduringcharm I do have a question? Do you know any good systems for a lipless tub. Have a job coming up and owner wants to keep the tub they have an retile but it's rounded over metal coated. They sprung a leak and very limited space with plaster walls? It's a lot of work to water tight it didnt know if you knew of a add on lip system.
Two comments on that question. First, you did jog my memory about an add-on lip for tubs. There are some available, including one I remember from a major manufacturer, perhaps Kohler. Some are generic third party, some are designed for a specific tub. All, as far as I know, rely on sticky tape or caulk to do the job. I'm not a big fan of the idea. When sticky-back or caulk is the ONLY barrier against water intrusion your odds of success go way down over the long haul. And, you said your customer has already experienced a leak with a steel or cast tub which are prone to rusting anyway.
That brings me to the second comment. If you are doing this for a living, it's your business and your reputation. It turns out the customer is not always right. You do yourself no favors by ignoring your better judgement in favor of a customer's opinion that "it'll be fine." Maybe it won't be fine, and you know who will get the blame. My advice would be to have a detailed conversation with the customer about the risks and to steer them toward a new tub with an integral lip. If the money isn't there for that solution or they push back, you may just want to walk away from the job. At the very least, put in writing your concerns and have them sign off on accepting the risk. I've had my business for 15 years now through some tough times, but I never compromised on a basic level of performance and competence. Some clients can afford to do everything perfectly and update every detail, and some can only afford to get the basics right and may need to accept minor existing imperfections. But I've never gone below that threshold into quick-fixes or shoddy work. So, explain to your customer what's going on and if they can't or won't step up, then think carefully about taking the job or not.
@@enduringcharm oh I am completely in agreence. The tub in this situation is spectacular in shape and it runs with the rest of the house. Ergo why they want to keep it. The hole was actually in the little soap niche and I suspect it's an issue. But looks like they plastered and built it out. So not sure what to expect but the tub is definitely high end stuff. It's certainly one of those jobs that dont come around to often.
I am loving these videos! Do you have one on installing the shower pans?
Kelly Williams You know, I haven't filmed a pan installation yet, mostly because it's me and my plumber running around in a tight space so it's tough to do. I'll keep it mind for the future, though.
enduringcharm would love to see the pan installation process
You're in luck! I just published a shower pan video a short while ago:
ua-cam.com/video/PUTyeD-jyeY/v-deo.html
Followed your recommendation of using the window flashing and 4 mil plastic over that. I used durock cement backer board instead of hardiebacker. Do I need to apply anything as far as waterproofing to the cement board before tiling besides mesh tape on the joints? Shower is in against an exterior corner wall of the home.
I have to say, I'm not a fan of Durock. It's porous and does not offer the rigidity or moisture resistance of Hardibacker fiber cement board. Since you've already put it up, I would install Schluter Kerdi membrane over the entire surface, which will keep moisture and water out.
Guys walls durock size 1/2”
Floors 1/4” correct?
For shower or tub walls you need 1/2" cement board and I would encourage you to try Hardibacker rather than Durock. It's stiffer, it's not porous, and it makes for a nicer installation in my opinion. On floors the structure is provided by the plywood underneath and the cement board is just for adhesion of the tile. You can use 1/4" or 1/2" id you like, but 1/4" is typical unless you have a need for additional height (thickness).
@@enduringcharm My installation calls for furring strips and 1/2" panel, I'm thinking of using double 1/4 hardibackers so that it's flush with the sorrounding drywall of 1/2". Do you see any issues with this?
I would not recommend using double 1/4" hardibacker (or other brand) for the walls. The half inch hardibacker is used on walls because it is stiffer and can span the distance between studs. A double layer of 1/4" boards will not have the same effect. I have a number of other videos showing how to handle the transition between the hardibacker and drywall. Essentially you can use drywall compound to feather the difference as long as your thoroughly prime the compound and let that paint cure (not just dry) before tiling.
Can a novice put in a shower pan (plastic) and then put tile over it?
I think you may have misunderstood the point of shower pans. The type shown in the video is the finished shower floor--there is no tile. If you want a tiled shower floor see my other videos on the Schluter shower base system. There is also a company that makes a specialty base which is solid and meant to be tiled over, but I've not used it. The Schluter system is the industry leader for tiled floors.
Another question, how big of a gap where the corner tile meet?
Typically I make the corner grout line the same as the rest of the field. However, I don't like to exceed 1/8 on an inch or so. If you will be caulking the corners with a silicone caulk (rather than relying on grout) then the caulk make cover the gap anyway.
5 thumbs up 👍👍👍👍👍 Thank you so much!!!
Sounds like Joe Pesci is now doing bathroom remodel. No wonder i don't see him making movies now!
Great video. I am confused though. Down below you indicate CB companies like the cement board over the flange. You also suggest this earlier in the video as your preference. Then you mention when shimming causes the drywall not to be in plain with the CB board, you put it above the flange as you have no choice. Then you say CB companies want it above the flange {anyway.} If you were to shim that one side, couldn't grout fill the gap that 3/8" offset? Did you say your purchased the protect film at Lowes? I am not seeing any that has a sticky side to it.
I think I might have been talking about either the shower pan manufacturer or the Hardi company when discussing the position of the backer board--there can be conflicting advice. Essentially, its preferable to have the cement board overlap the pan flange if possible. That often means shimming out the wall (resist any temptation to notch the studs, which is against code). In instances where you can't shim out the wall or for some other reason the backer must sit on top of the flange, I believe my trick of using the self-adhesive flashing is a good practice. It's inexpensive and it could help prevent a problem in the future if the caulk or grout in the shower is not maintained well. You can find it at Home Cheapo or Lowes in the aisle where they keep gutters, metal flashing, cement products and roofing products. Just ask for self-adhesive window and door roll flashing.
Thank you again! I found the flashing at Lowe's. Not finding that protective green wrap yet. I see on the John Bridge tile forum it seems generally they run the plastic barrier all the way up the top. If the insulation vapor barrier is facing toward the wall rather than inside like yours, should it run all the way up?I really tried hard to go with the CB over the flange. But with the shower base flange being 1/4", it was just too much for the rest of the wall. Hence, I am opting to go the way you have shown on this video {with just the questions I just mention above.}
The protective wrap can be found in the carpet section, and it may be clear not green. As for the plastic, I do not run it all the way up for two reasons. First, if there is insulation present you could create a double vapor barrier since the insulation already has one. That can trap moisture (walls do "breathe' and moisture does travel). Second, any leak I've ever found in a shower occurred in the first 3-4 feet off the floor, so I see no purpose in running the plastic up to the ceiling.
Thank you. I feel confident to move forward now!
I wonder if anyone can help explain how to remove the protectowrap sheet once stuck on the pan - thanks!
Did you accidentally stick it where it shouldn't be? You can just rip it off like a band-aid. There will be residue that will wipe off with a squirt of WD-40 or Goo-Gone and a rag.
@@enduringcharm Thanks, it worked! Yup, I messed up a bit....
Appreciate the quick reply!
It happens all the time. This stuff is normally used outdoors for flashing windows and doors. Generally as soon as you get up on a ladder and peel off the backing the wind will pick up. You'll either end up with flashing stuck together in a ball, or stuck to your ladder. Also, if it's your last piece of flashing from the roll, the wind will be twice as strong.
@@enduringcharm lol, so true....
Genius
Why wouldn’t you use Redgard over the hardy backer ?? Your hoping that the grout joints hold up and unless maintained they won’t now your hardy backer is exposed. Two coats of Redgard turns your grout to a cosmetic step. Can’t leak won’t leak.
I hear so many comments about Regard that they must be doing a great job of marketing. But, that's what it is--marketing. There are instances (shown in some of my other videos) where I do need continuous waterproofing, such as when I tile the floor of a shower. In those cases I use the Schluter system Kerdi membrane. I made another video some years ago about waterproofing, showing that even in the old days when tile was installed over drywall, it often lasted for decades. We don't use that method anymore because when plumbing leaks happened or when an escutcheon wasn't sealed, it would turn to mush or even get moldy. Hardibacker doesn't turn to mush. I've remodeled maybe 60 or more bathrooms and done various repairs in dozens more. After you take apart that many baths and put them back together you see where the typical problems lie. If you want to use your Redgard somewhere, use it to cover the plywood between the edge of the tub and the edge of the tile before you put down the backerboard on the floor. That's where I consistently find water damage.
This just shows there are multiple ways of doing a job right. I am in the process of installing a shower pan and plan on using Redguard But you gave me a good point by putting down some plastic waterproof tape under the shower pan
quick question, how do you know the tile adhesive will stick to the winodw flashing you put over the lip of the bathtub? I am tiling a bathroom shower and the bathtub instructions say to have druwall flush with the bathtub lip and cement board on top of the drywall and over the bathtub lip. But that means the shower walls will stick out passed the bathroom walls and I don't want that.
You've confused several things. First, the adhesive flashing is installed just on the lip of the tub/shower and then goes behind the backerboard. Very little of the flashing shows after the backerboard is applied. Second, there is no drywall installed behind the backerboard--the cement backerboard is applied directly to the studs. By using half inch backer, you can transition to drywall outside of the shower area to be tiled. I have a few other videos showing the tiling process and I suggest you watch them too to get a better sense of the work:
ua-cam.com/play/PLD4oAOZqK9mCjvmw_nUkZBrPPXf_20Lad.html
Thank you for your reply. I understand the cement board in your installation will go above the window flashing, but I was talking about the few mm's under the cement board until you get to the upper lip of the tub, that area will be only window flashing and the thin-set will be applied on it and tiles above it. I know its not much, but that's my question if thin-set will stick to the few mm's which will touch the window flashing.When I said drywall, that's what the instruction of my bathtub show. It shows drywall flush with the bathtub, then cement board going on top of the drywall and going down to over the bathtub's lip, then tiles on top of the cement board
Okay, well, disregard the bathtub instructions you are reading! You should not have drywall behind the cement backerboard at all. It does not even meet current codes. If you wish to "pack out" the cement backerboard to have it go past the lip, then use plywood strips. As for the small amount of flashing at the bottom, keep in mind that the tile--even a small tile--will be mostly adhered to the cement backerboard. Only an inch at most extends below the backerboard to just above the tub or pan. That small area is filled with thinset to provide backing, but if that small section doesn't adhere it isn't an issue because the tile is held in place by the area adhered to the backerboard.
do you use oil or latex primer
***** I use Zinnser 123 latex primer. It's tough, dries quickly and covers very well. I very rarely use oil based primer for anything these days. Formulations have changed dramatically in recent years and there is almost no reason to need oil based paint anymore. Once in a blue moon I'll be painting antique wood that has been treated with linseed oil or has an oil based window glazing used and then I'll turn to an oil based primer.
You are awesome
Think people get a lil crazy about waterproofing showers and tubs....sure it needs to be done, but nothing lasts forever and in 20 yrs give or take it will be redone....use common sense, experience and tell homeowner every few years to re seal grout.....some of these shluter systems are ridiculously expensive and not necessary.......maintenence is most important aspect of leaks, mold...if water gets behind the tile I don't care what you do it will rot....it should never get back there in first place!
Couldn't agree more. There is an obsession with waterproofing the tile field of showers now, driven by marketing. That's not where I find rot or water when I take apart bathrooms. I find the problems at the bottom edges of tubs or pans on the floor, I find them under poorly detailed escutcheons, I find them behind tub edges that were not caulked or maintained, I find them under toilets in the floor, etc. Not ever have I found rot or moisture in the middle of a shower wall. Not once in 60-70 bath remodels.