DO NOT Fit a Shower Tray Until You've Watched This
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Roger tells us why shower trays crack and how bedding your shower tray on tile adhesive is not a good idea.
Avoid a cracked shower tray and see what Roger has to say about this common issue.
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#ShowerTray #Bathrooms #ShowerRoom
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I bumped into a customer the other day who I did a complete bathroom install for , she told me how good it was and how happy they were with it . That was over ten years ago I fitted that one and shockingly I made a profit doing it ..do it once do it right earn the bragging rights
I've always been put off these shower trays. I'm a DIYer and I've always put in the shower tray forms made from tile backing boards and tiled on top. They look so much better and they're easy to do. If you need to lower the floor, use 22mm ply, cut out the tray area, fix ply between the joists using noggins, leaving just enough space and no more for the drain to go in.
I'm also very pleased at your comments regarding backing boards as I've always thought they were a good idea. If there's any chance it getting wet, use a backing board. Seal and then tape the joins and any screws / washers you've used.
The images at the 21 min mark are exactly how I've done it, including the HansGrohe ibox which is a great piece of engineering. I wasted my time in the past with cheaper taps and fittings and none have lasted anywhere near as long.
So it's good to see a professional of your standing reassuring me that I'm doing it the right way. Will be doing another 3 on my new build house later this year. Looking forward to it.
Last tray I fitted, I fretted for a few days on whether to use sand cement or go with “modern way” of tile adhesive or worse, ct1 et al. Stuck with tray recommendations (for guarantee) and went with sand cement and sbr. Not a plumber, so good to hear it’s still best way.
As an enthusiastic DIY'er, I'm so glad I've followed your guidance on my ensuite refit. Several times I've thought "this is overkill". But even though the refit has been very slow, following your belt and braces approach has definitely paid dividends, and as I near completion, I'm confident it's as good an installation as I would have got anywhere. Thanks for all this generous information Roger - much appreciated.
Renovating my flat i’ve just bought which was only built in 2005 (flats built on the quick and cheap). Plasterboard in both bathrooms, chipboard floors with lino in both, tap outlets and screw holes in tiles for shower screen not sealed. completely rotten under bath, loads of mold under lino which spread beyond the bathroom. had to rip up all the floors in the flat. Thanks to your videos i’ve used proper backing-board, sealed it all up etc, videos have helped me so much thanks.
Just about to fit shower tray and you’ve answered so many questions. Absolutely brilliant, thanks for great advice!
Sound advice from an experienced plumber/bathroom fitter. Learnt a few useful thinks from Roger's video. Totally agree with the sand/cement bed for shower tray and the backer boards on the walls. I'm fitting a Crosswater 1200 x 800 stone resin shower tray at the moment and so glad I watched the video before I started working on my long overdue bathroom renovation.
This is great information. I'm installing a shower myself in an en suite and this has given me the confidence to do it, and to do it right first time.
My resin shower tray had massive air bubbles at the mating surface where the trap was supposed to seal against. I used a massive length of plumbers mait to fill the gaps before fitting the trap. Also I fretted over getting the sand and cement base support even across the whole tray. Only to discover later that if you bought the shower tray raiser kit it stood on four feet one in each corner so total even support was not actually necessary just support to each corner!
As a DIYer I made up my own method which has been fine for 20years. I levelled the tray with four blocks of wood screwed to the floor meaning I had as much time as I needed using trial and error to get it perfectly level. Then I laid many dobs of sand and cement to allow it to squish out until the tray sat on the wood blocks. This may not be the right way but it worked fine for me.
excellent video! Every British builder, handy man who thinks he can build a bathroom etc needs to watch this. I have had no end off problems with showers that had been build onto wooden floors wrongly. I am very very weary of doing that now. I also think that normal life around a shower tray (ie footsteps etc) causes vibrations on the floorboards, etc that so often are not dampened properly around showertrays and over time affect the seals around the shower tray. Or and even more importantly, people standing in shower trays. have you ever checked how the tray flexes when a heavy person use a shower tray. sigh ..
Great video, just the way I do it except I put silicone under tray as it's flexible and doesn't affect tray, never had a problem. Also I always use a classy seal around the tray and epoxy swimming pool grout in the shower area.
I wouldn’t really call that a rant, I’d call it passionate instruction😁 as as ever fantastic video!!
As a customer its not easy to know if fitter is good and decent. The supposed schemes of trusted traders don't seem to be trustable. If you show any level of interest like asking if elements board will be used they might say yes but come installation its plaster board or marine ply and they will claim its better and been used for years - once the job is started are you going to tell them to down tools and leave it, not likely.
what he says about joists and noise transmission is true - mine and my neighbours joists run into each other and we can hear everything. Good thing we like each other!
AYE AYE 2 people in a shower, oo la la. Good vid again Roger
Hello Roger. I have watched this 3 or 4 times now, very helpful and interesting. My plumber, when asked , said he was going to use tile adhesive to install my mira flight tray if the floor isn't very level. I told him I wanted sand and cement to keep the warranty valid. I then found another video of yours where you were actually installing a mira flight, but you put silicone on the bottom, so now I'm confused.
I hope I don't have the waste issues you did, 4 or 5 trays later .
Thank you for your time
Yes sorry Jules
If you get the reinforced back tray that is perfectly flat and has leg positions you can use silicone but the sand and cement will compensate for an uneven or out of lever floor. If you have a resin cast tray then you must use the sand and cement base.
We had our small bathroom converted into a wet room some years ago. Took them three attempts. They made near every mistake here and some. Water puddled in various areas instead of down the waste pipe (what’s a spirit level?),. Wall tiles were spaced using bits of cardboard (dirt cheap reusable spacers not an option?). The floor tiles around the toilet broke because undersurface wasn’t flat (bare floorboards are perfect for a wet room?). They seem to have done it right in the end and gave a partial refund, but watching this and taking a good look, I see early signs didn’t they tank the shower area properly. Glad I noticed it now, thank you very much.
as a keen diyer your videos are always insightful and on this subject it's not just a reflection on the building trade it's reflection on our society in general. We have a skill shortage in absolutely everything we need in this country and it's getting worse. Nobody wants to do a proper job, everyone just wants to get rich quick. We can't seem to build or repair anything to a high standard anymore.
This was unbelievable useful. I've got a few questions to ask my bathroom fitter tomorrow x
The problem I found with our low profile tray, is it was set perfectly level by the edges, but there is a slight dip in the middle of the tray that doesn't drain
I never use sand and cement. I cover the ply with foam then sheets of newspaper. The newspaper means you can lift the tray easily if there's a problem. The weakest point is always the tray/tile interface and 99% of leaks occur there. I put in a self adhesive rubber up-stand and butyl rubber seal it as well. Leave a decent gap under the tile so grout can easily be pressed in. No need for silicone as a primary seal or even bother with it anyway.
It’s right what u said about the tray being very close to flush with the finished floor level makes for a more easily accessible shower cubicle but for fitting and maintenance purposes it’s a problem raising the tray up on 4 *2 s keeping the trap to the front and having an access panel makes it just so much more install and user friendly for future with the bonus of a greater flow fall and not having to worry about the joist direction it ticks a lot of box’s that way but heh I do know that aphetically it not as sleek to look at and a lot of clients do want the tray as close to the floor as possible
Great video, very informative! Thanks for the uncoupling tip with the tile adhesive. Looks like it’s better to use sand and cement and it’s cheaper!
Roger, great video Sir! Recently purchased a shower tray like this at auction. Never realised it was concrete! Good clear instructions that I will follow, thank you for sharing.
Hi Roger, thank you for the advise. I am getting quotes off trades people for en suite at the moment. One said plasterboard to me and alarm bells were ringing. I am thinking I will just do it myself now as I have more confidence in myself and the availability of trades people at the moment is months away.
I think you could do well with it, and the money you save on the labour you can spend putting in the right things to make it a quality job.
Excellent video Roger. Had i seen this 12 years ago, I would have installed our en-suite much differently. I will certainly be following your tips when it comes to redoing it.
It’s lasted 12 years and counting, I’d consider it a job well done personally. Having said that, I’m watching these videos to learn how to redo mine, if the kids and I don’t fall through it first. So, enquiring minds want to know, what did you do that was different to this guy and still worked? And would it be considered a mistake? Because I’d prefer my mistakes to come to end with a still functional bathroom, it’d be nice to know in advance which ones aren’t too detrimental. 😆
Great video. Thankfully I live in The Netherlands where wooden floors are only found in older homes. I hope installing my tray will be relatively easy on my concrete floor :)
Very informative and I wholly understand the need to support the entire underneath of the tray incase of the dreaded crack😱, my only query is when using a leg riser kit do I put ply on top of the riser legs then a mortar bed on the ply then the tray on top of the mortar bed ?
Damn Roger you are a great teacher mate. A natural at explaining things to be super clear. Glad I got to see this before the shower base install.
Thanks, that means a lot to me.
@@SkillBuilderhi Roger. At 12:30, you say to use the polythene, are you also advising to comb tile adhesive on top of the polythene too when bedding the trap on top of it?
Morning Pal ..... you're spot on great tip with the poly ( Thanks for that ) I fit loads of these ..Always backer board and tank ..ya gotta do it folks ..... the amount of leks I've seen from lack of tanking even is unbelievable .... Once again Pal thanks for all the tips .. Loving all these Vids 38 years on site and still learning
Having done years of insurance work, I’ve seen more shower trays fail with sand and cement underneath than I ever have tile adhesive
Great stuff. An hour watching you and I'm confident.... Enough to watch a few more hours before I start!
Great advice. Thanks for taking the time to explain properly 👍🏻
A timely video 😂. Few things I’ve learnt of late on jobs..... there’s more than one way to skin a cat, BUT there’s only one way to get the manufacturer’s guarantee. Hardy backer isn’t water proof but won’t disintegrate in water. If you’ve not flattened it out don’t tile it. And cheap large tiles will always need levelling clips 😂
We use aqualine here.. shower tray is recessed into the plasterboard and more often than not we use an acrylic shower liner .. any tiles that is used we apply a waterproof membrane..
Great video. I'm a little confused with laying a shower tray. In a previous video with James (extension #37) you fitted a shower tray onto a SBR treated chipboard with OB1 sealant. It doesn't suggest a de-coupling membrane? I get that the SBR primes the wood. The Mira flight tray is a more secure/tray so you would be happy with the product being sturdy enough. Thanks for the videos. 👍
Great video as always Roger very enlightening 👌🏼🧱👍🏼
The bodges I come across are unreal - " well that's how it's done, and that's how I'm doing it" .....! Like you very clearly said, it is best not to do the job than to do it badly. I tend to avoid tiling and use a shower wall panelling, removing all those porous joints. I've also seen tiles applied so many times without spacers!! And we all know what happens then, they blow or crack. Even professional tilers have done this, they've done it in my house! Wet room floors are preferred, where a screed or former is laid flush with the floor and then vinyl sheet flooring applied over with a cove upstand that the shower wall can lip over, but the trays are fine as long as the manufacturers instructions are adhered to. I also think that being able to service the trap and waste is important. McAlpine make some great kit and their technical guy, sorry forgotten your name, is one of the best and helped us out of some very unusual situations. Sensible advice and great video as usual, well done.
As a house builder who has built many many semi detached houses, I can tell you straight up the joists will go to the party wall, you have cavity between houses and the span is smallest outer to party than going front to back
Scrimping on cost or time only causes bother later. Thanks for the video Roger.
Thank you Roger for your wealth of information. Experience is priceless and thank you for sharing with us all how a job should be done.
So true , water damage one of the biggest killers in a house build. Can go under foundation work and bring down the wall , ect .I’m repairing one now , even the shower threat for the hose he put level with wall , so once tiles are put on not enough thread left Hardly to grip the shower head.
To tank all floor is great plus 600 mil past shower for walls is a must
Thanks so much I'm a competent DIYer ready to do a shower tray and tiled walls. You've guided me no end with this video. I'm actually going to install on a vinyl tiled concrete floor any additional advice greatly appreciated. Many Thanks
Had to laugh. Live in a semi detached house. My joists run in the exact same way that you stated is very unlikely to run in a semi detached house.
This is wrong any way party wall joists sit on steel shoes to prevent fire noise etc miss informed on this one not like him.
@@darkviper62 Used to live in a well built late 1930s house, suspect joists had exactly noise problem described by Roger. Wouldn't be at all surprised if joists met in party wall and without any metal separators. New neighbours playing music in adjoining bedroom was a revelation - the sound was unhampered even by our wardrobes fited right across the party wall. As soon as Roger drew those joists I realised why the sound was so clear.
@@darkviper62 He was only stating it as a possibility. You have no idea what builders get up to when no one is looking.
@@xzox builder myself so yeah I do know what goes on a 1930s house might be built like that.
But not something newer.
What about riser legs for a mira flight shower tray Roger? Don't care about the look of it being higher given it'll allow a bit of access to the trap but a few plastic legs are they really strong enough or are you better using your own timbers to make a frame?
The mira flight low profile trays on risers are pretty good. Just fitted one myself but tanked the moisture resistant plaster board with an Aquaseal kit. I also tanked over the plywood floor and sealed around the waste pipe going under the floorboards. Instead of tiles I used vistelle aqua panels. The riser legs are well made by Mira but for peace of mind I added some wooden batten supports for additional stability. If you plan it and look at a couple more of Rogers videos you adopt a ‘ belt and braces’ methodology.
I installed my shower tray 15 years ago I raised the shower tray so that I can fully access and change the waste if needed without either cutting a hole in the ceiling below or ripping the shower out.i have had to replace the shower trap once in that time due to the chrome plating straying to delaminate from the trap but no other problems whatsoever.when I raised the shower I used timber to raise and a plywood panel sat on top to reinforce the shower tray floor.
Bloody hell I’ve installed loads of shower tray using tile adhesive . 😄
Make sure your passport is up to date !
A bit slow to get to the information I was seeking but what a detailed and excellent explanation and I learned a lot. Thank you!
Very good advice! Will definitely add the membrane between the backer and the pad. Thanks?
Another great explanation Roger, this will be a good link for the customers to watch when they get a quote.
You get what you pay for...
Absolutely agree with you there Roger. The only place for plaster board in a bathroom is on tbe ceiling, and that should possibly be moisture resistant if no suitable extraction is installed. I'm right at the point of deciding what flooring to use with two bathrooms, one sits above the other. I've watched loads of videos and taken note of different methods and will use some make/brand of cement board for the floor and walls but might consider the use of that other backer board. I'm tempted to use the Kerdi system or one of the similar ones to it. Problem I've got is trying to maintain floor levels between bathrooms and adjoining rooms so have to work out thickness of backer boards and tiles. I've also got PosiJoists so need to put plenty of noggins somehow to give good support. Thanks for another good video.
Thank you very much fir sharing your passion in what you do. Good 👍 college instructor. Well done excellent way of explaining. Tradesman master class
I appreciate that!
@@SkillBuilder Are you a college instructor? I said as much, whilst watching. Not an unnecessary word, not a rant only great delivery of word-pictures. Thank you.
Thank you for this information, love listening to you on many DIY job and getting it right, ur a top man cheers
Nice one Roger 👍 I've seen this soo many times in the UK 🇬🇧 the Americans however have been switched on to this for years it pains me to say🙂
Thank you, very informative, what about fitting a shower tray onto a concrete floor?
New extension built plumber from Builder has stuck it down on green boards. Not happy. Cost me £631. Luckily my neighbour is a good plumber and is coming to look tomorrow. Also from the brick wall is cement board and an inch away from the shower tray where green board is displayed. Rogue plumber
Well not been a pain in the arse but my house is semi detached and the joist are running towards my neighbours house but on joints hangers at the wall between both house
Rodger what are your thoughts on PU expanding foam? Ive used this method on a few trays, not had any problems but not saying they won't in the future. My theory is that its extremely flexible and expands to fill the gaps so gives you even support. I always fit trays to 18mm ply.
Used this method for 20 odd years or more and never had a call back.
Not sure I'd recommend it for the diyer though.
@@LH-wn1wt apart from the decoupling issues its such a huge time-saver over sand and cement and still allows for the flexibility. I would be curious to hear Rodgers thoughts on it
Absolutely spot on I couldn't agree more. I always use the hardi board. 👍
RIGHT ON !!! GREAT JOB DESCRIBING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you mean weakest at ita thinnest portion.excellent video Sir
We agree with Roger, do the job properly or dont do it at all. Most clients will understand the diference between a propper job and not.
One tip for anyone out there, stick to marine ply for bathroom floors and a decoupling sheet.
Thank you man from Cyprus
🙏
Very helpful advices.
Experience is can not be gained overnight and is priceless once gained.
How many tubes of Gripfill did he say to use?
At least a whole box🤣
Breath deeply nutrients are in the air 😆
@@baronbullshyster2996 Yeah. Made in China?
Great video. Thanks!. You mention "Prime the plywood"... with what? Any recommended product please. There are 100s of these things and I'm clueless.
what can i say Thank you! Good honest advice we neee more builder like him
Such a great video full of pro tips for me being new to this.
Another absolutely brilliant review and advice.
Great video, many thanks! We are just about to redo a large bathroom, replacing the bath with a walk-in shower. I have made extensive notes from your video to give our future installer, Just one question - which may be naive - but, if tile backer boards are so great for the walls as a seal, why not use under the shower tray?
The shower tray has a waste hole and the trap is in the floor. If there is going to be a leak it will be there or around the edge. We use tile backer boards on wet room floors and then tile over but with a tray there is no point.
Just great. Video is worth it’s weight in gold.
Our joists go into the party wall, house is 20 years old so may be a thing now? We've also never heard our neighbours through the walls (unless they're doing DIY),
Will soon be fitting a tray. I purchased a mcalpine waste in anticipation. The tray specifies you must use their waste to validate the guarantee. That waste has no rubbish, hair trap for maintenance and is installed with two screws. Technically it may be considered inferior to the mcalpine. The recommended waste has a square top plate, whereas the mcalpine is round. The tray may have a square recess. I have yet to receive it yet, so that may be an issue.
Can you lay the tray directly onto floorboards with a cement and sand mix.
Another great video from Roger. Always use McAlpine fittings ,they are second to none.
3 tubes of silicone dot and dabbed on the right place on any cast resin tray and itll never crack....must of fitted 200 trsys in 15 years...not one fail.
Excellent advice from a plumber that is 100% trustworthy. No, I have no affiliation with him and we have never met, but you just know when you can believe and trust someone.
Very well spoken. Surly I have learn something new today
Hi Roger,
I keep hoping to see you do a shower/bathroom install in a property with concrete floors.
We have one coming up in a month or two.
@@SkillBuilder would you like to come and do my bathroom then Lol 😂 It would make a awesome video 😬👍
Do we need to know why joist aren't facing the wrong direction?
Is it acceptable to only stick the tray with silicone on the 2 sides of the tray in contact with the wall without having to worry about the base of it?
I’m replacing a shower and there is an old bonded waste (imperial), so makes sense to replace. Would you put a kink in the pipe so it slows flow along 3m pipe?
Hi I am in the process of doing my very own shower try and this was very helpful I will be using pvc panels and what is the best way to stop the water going through the joints in the panels please and what is the best sand to use on my base it's a 1200 x 700 shower tray with 2 stud wall thank you in advance
If you aren't using tiles, but rather shower panels, how do you seal from the backer board onto the tray without the tape being visible on the tray? I'm assuming the tiles and silicone bead would normally hide the tape, but with shower panels being so thin how would you hide it? Especially when using tile adhesive with wedi tape, I can see that getting messy.
We should do away with trays and adopt the appraoch they use overseeas for their shower floor: flat subfloor, mapei tank floor, doucoupling mat, flexible tile adhesive and finally tile. Better to have a what we would call "wet rooms" and "walk in showers" with enclosures than to have a tray that introduces its own problems.
Totally agree
mine has flooded underneath the tray today! everywhere wet, kitchen below! all because the shower drain was not down properly so the water seeped underneath, should i be able to get under the tray to dry it out? its all wooden frame under it
Great vid Roger, will definitely be following your advice. Question for you; the sand and cement for the bedding-in, not sure whether your talking about a dry mix or a wet mix? cheers tom
I put plasticiser in it and comb it through with a 10mm notched trowel. If it is too wet you get shrinkage so keep the moisture as low as you can while still making it creamy
Good morning Roger can you offer any advice. My client brought a shallow semi circular shower. 1.1/2 pipe diameter drainage. The problem is the water flows into a sump in the floor in a Spanish property where the diameter of the hole is 1/2" it's literally is a flexi hose connector from tray to pipe and then into the stump. Not an ideal situation because your asking for 5 ltrs of water to be pushed though a small aperture that can't run away quick enough so in effect water is building up in the tray and flooding the bathroom. When I take the inside of the trap apart the water flows quickly. The drainage plate has 3 screw holes and is round . My thoughts use a S trap or "P trap with a deeper shower tray. It's an apartment so digging up the floor would be difficult. Any suggestions 😊
Do you still need tile backer board if you're using pvc floor to ceiling wall panels, and if so, how can you stick the pvc panels to the brush on tanking material on the backer board?
You don't have to use waterproof backer boards if you are using panels but the polymer adhesives will do it no problem.
another super useful video, everything is dead clear except the base part, doesn't the mix going off create a couple rigid base that you were keen to avoid? apologies if that is a stupid question. DIYer through necessity.
The reason for not putting n a very strong mix is exactly as you describe. It must support but not cause stress.
My old boss used to use a bag of bonding to stick trays down with
Terrible idea
@@SkillBuilder I agree
Beautiful
Brilliant video, Roger.
Only thing I don’t get it who cares what board is behind if your silicone is actually the worst job and no fan in bathroom 🤔
I used moisture resistant plasterboard or hardy backer board and see no difference 🤔
Roger i wish i had you here in Irl .
Have had several problems with my ensuite bathrooms .
Been given astronomical quotes to fix .
Planning on doing myself .
Am i mad ?
No just research the hell out of it and then it is nothing more than following the instructions. We get lots of emails from people who have built bathrooms as good as any tradesman and often better.
really interesting thank you - about to take out a bath and get the plumber in to do the shower tray I will make sure he follows these guidelines definitely - thanks so much - the rant was very welcome!
Hi Roger, you only briefly mentioned a delaminating tray. This has happened to a tray I fitted 2 years ago using the methods you suggested. Why could this have happened, as I’ve never come across it before in many years of installing?
Hi Mike
It is usually caused by very hot water on one part of the tray, The acrylic cap lifts in a small area and then it spreads. If you know the manufacturer tell them about the problem. Most will give you a new tray with no fuss.
@@SkillBuilder they’re coming out to do a destructive test on it, hoping to blame it on the installer. They will bring and supply a new tray, it’ll be fun getting the old one out
On installation instructions, the tray manufacturer says the tray must be supported across the whole base with a sand & cement layer, but then the next paragraph says how to fit the tray on riser legs such that the tray is supported on just 4 or 5 points of its base?????
Hi, really found your video very helpful and interesting. Thank you. Could you please advise if the liquid foil compound painted over the tile backing board screws, which we have now installed following your video!, needs to dry before installing the jointing tape and second layer of liquid foil? Thank you.
You can place the tape in the wet Aquaseal but, quite honestly, the seal is so good that you could leave the tape off the screwheads,
Fantastic! Very helpful, thanks👍🏽
We love your shower walls. They're a great way to make the most of your space, and they help keep the water out of the rest of your bathroom.
But they can be hard to install, especially if you don't have a lot of experience with sheetrock and/or plumbing. That's why we love HYDRO-BLOK Shower Wall Panels! They're easy to install, waterproof, and can be used in any room of your home-not just the shower!