SCOURING PAD FIXES EVERYTHING... 🤣 - Diesel Heater. PT-18
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 лют 2023
- Shane Hogarth
/ @shanehogarth6373
If you are looking for a heater similar to mine, I have some affiliate links below. Making a purchase through one of these links helps me out as I get a small percentage of each sale. Use promo code VVS10 to get $10 off or VVPROMO to get 5% off storewide. Thank you.
Canada - s.vevor.com/bfP6Z5
USA - s.vevor.com/bfP8zF
EU - s.vevor.com/bfP9mB
UK - Not Available
AU - Not Available
MX - Not Available
JP - s.vevor.com/bfP7tE
If you would like to support me and my projects, I have created a Patreon account. Regardless of the amount, every bit helps, will be put to use and is awesome motivation. Thank you so much !!
I want to point out that, at this point, that I purchased this heater out of my own pocket ... VEVOR approached me afterwards, so I purchased this heater from them based on my own research, and as you guys can see, it has taken all of the abuse I have thrown at it !
My Patreon - / joel_a
The Joel Arseneault UA-cam channel where I do mostly jetski stuff that is much more edited. / @joelarseneaultyoutube
My Teespring - spark-bolt-city.creator-sprin...
Actual description: In this video I start into some interesting modifications to try to get / keep temperature in the burn chamber. WIth a thermocouple on the outside of the burn chamber, where the oil goes in, I am able to monitor this temp separately from the exchanger and have determined that the heater burns much cleaner when the temp is up over 220C where the fuel goes in (when burning engine oil) - Авто та транспорт
I stuffed a brillo pad in my engine. I was amazed to find it didn't work.😂👍😎
🤣 I heard it adds backpressure and gives you more HP ... You need to screw it to the top of the piston.
At some point I'll look out my window across Calgary and see a small mushroom cloud forming and think "meh, just another diesel heater experiment".
LOL... It's good to know I offer a calming peace and tranquility in these troubled times 🤣
He is on the watchlist for building a WMD
I run mine at 50/50 mix runs clean no smoke and slightly more heat it gives. So far so good. But the bearing inside the motor is going out after 3 years of use
Thanks for the comment. What sort of a 50/50 mix are you running ? Diesel and motor oil, veg oil... kerosene 🤣 Kidding.
@@loweredexpectations4927 its Diesel and WMO from my diesel pickup 😆 thanks for the interesting videos mate!
@@AdelJeffreyJeffreysAuto Awesome ! You should make some video about this... I'd love to see someone have more success with it than I've had, haha. It's fun tho.
The perfect balance I use is 40 percent used oils ( of ANY source.. veggie, motor, etc .. filtered of course), 50 percent new heating oil (or diesel or kerosene) and 10 percent petrol. No ash, no soot, no problem.
@@gbear1005 Have you tried this yourself, in a chinese diesel heater ? If so for how long ? Are you running any special modifications or settings on your heater ?
The reason I ask is because I have tried dozens of different mixtures. I have used 30% used oil, 60% diesel and 10% gasoline as well as 30/65/5 and 30/68/2 and they all ended with less than 4 litres of waste oil being consumed.
lol. all I think about is:
"kerosine can't melt steel beams."
😅
LOL.... well... with enough oxygen ... yeah, not only melt, but consume.
Older gas turbines and microturbines use "J tubes" for atomization and fuel preheating for combustion. The fuel is delivered into reverse flow J tubes that direct the liquid fuel upstream of the J tube. The fuel ignites outside the base of the tube and and the flame moves towards the bend in the tube, heating the tube, heating the fuel in the tube and atomizing it before it is ejected from the tube to do the same. Look up a photo of the J65 gas turbine combustor. Micro turbines use atomization tubes of varying shapes to achieve the same result. Love your videos! Cheers
That makes sense. I have preheated the fuel to 100C (about) for a few tests, and have considered doing something like you mention here.
My concern is that the line would get clogged very quickly as contaminants and ash gets left behind in the line.
The fuel system on these doesn't have much pressure to force anything through, so I suspect the line would fill with ash / coke very quickly. I do plan on ... modifying a chamber and doing this to some extent, but probably heating the fuel to 200 - 250.
I put the head of an all metal wire brush fixed onto my chamber wall .. it did burn up but like the fins, helps transfer heat from the chamber to the mass of the burner.
I haven't been able to find any metal that will last any length of time in the burn chamber. I have tried stainless, aluminum, copper, and even some tungsten electrodes from a tig welder. They all oxidized and fall apart quickly or melt.
Enjoying your experimentation...but fundamentals of combustion are the 3 'T's...Time, Temperature, and Turbulance. Those vanes (you ground off) provided a spin to maximize air/fuel mixing...for more complete combustion with air making better contact with fuel. You.might want to build a spiral the length of the combustion chamber as an experiment.
Thanks for the comment.
Whike the idea of the fins are in fact to spin the air, they don't work very well in stock form. David McLuckie has a heater with the end of the exchanger cut off, so you can look in the burn chamber, and there is very little if any spiral.
I agree that spiraling air would be better and I assume that the higher end units have a more refined burn chamber.
Also what about feeding some solid copper wire from the end of the burn chamber to the start. The idea being the copper wire conducts the heat from the combustion and heats up the start of the combustion chamber.
Oh yes... If you think I haven't done that, you're mad 🤣 I probably have enough footage for an entire copper wire video series, lol. I think you'll enjoy some of the stuff I tried, haha.
You could try using an 8mm breakfluid pipe wond around the exhorts and than feed it to ignite the chamber as fual?
This may work some. In some future videos I heat the line using the heat exchanger instead of the exhaust. I feel like it is safer the way I did it.
To keep more off the fuel in the hottest part off the burn chamber, how about using your lathe and taking some metal off using a boring bar and making a few ring’s on the inside ! I’m thinking it may be a way to capture the fuel before it runs out the end off the chamber.
That's an interesting idea... making a fuel pool. I have played around with some .... ideas along that thought path, but haven't gone there ... yet.
A very satisfactory 'Safety Tip'
Thanks ! haha.
Didn’t know Ben Affleck messed around with diesel heaters!!!!!
lol... Not sure if you are just the same person trolling me over and over, but I have heard similar things a few times. I was watching a video Swiss gun culture, and a worker at one of the ranges looked a lot like a young Matt Damon.
7:08 in this video... Matt Damon. ua-cam.com/video/wnBDK-QNZkM/v-deo.html&ab_channel=JohnnyHarris
10% petrol / gasoline
Will do a lot you also need to fill to the oil really well
Thanks for the comment. I have tried a few different ratios of gasoline and oil, and while some worked better than others, I didn't have much luck in the long run. Filtering the oil is a good idea for sure.
There is lot of extra air in burn chamber and heat so metal burns also. Last winter I bought cheap automatic wood pellet stove which had square burn chamber which didn't burn very well and pellets jumped over the sides when they were dropped. I cleaned badly cast iron chamber and made oval tube inside it from heat resistant perforated SS tube, burning improved a lot and cloving pellets didn't fly so fast to the ash tray. Burning was improved so much that the tube melts and turns directly to red iron oxide in bottom part of the tube.
It is shocking how much energy is in wood when you get it burning well... I have used wood in a home made smelting furnace and melted a lot of aluminum.
hmmm... reviewed this one again... had forgotten how much this had destructed metal you put in there to hold heat in chamber(s). Maybe use old burn chamber tube, cut it down and reform it into smaller diameter??. drill holes along it to air can whirl around it?
On your recent experiments (Waste oil introduced elsewhere, duel ECU's etc........ makes me wonder....... what about sort stacking/sandwiching two cobbled together units back to back all together..... basically a compressed version of your earlier experiment with two heaters?? Say a 2killowat to blast heat into a 5kw's primary chamber. 2kw running diesel (shortened 2cnd burn chamber? ) 5kw running a waste oil blend?
Yeah... it is not a friendly place to be, haha. I am considering sacrificing a new chamber for this purpose, in an upcoming video 👍
"Say a 2killowat to blast heat into a 5kw's primary chamber. 2kw running diesel (shortened 2cnd burn chamber? ) 5kw running a waste oil blend?" ... that might work.... we may get there some day, haha.
Try using copper it's a better heat retainer and has a higher melting point over aluminum
I had the exact same thought ... If you keep watching the series, you may see this happen... Don't want to spoil it for you, haha.
you could prolly just do 50/50 oil diesel so you can save some money
I have actually tried 50/50 in an earlier video as well as 50 diesel, 30 waste oil and 20% gasoline, all the way to 50 diesel, 48 waste oil and 2% gasoline.
I am considering 80% diesel .... The reason why I haven't done it yet, is because natural gas, where I live, is much less than half the price of diesel, and I have two natural gas heaters in my garage.
For people who need to burn diesel (heating oil), any waste oil they use is a cost savings, but for me, even at 50/50 it is way more costly than running my in floor heating.
When I do this test, it will purely be for others. It will also take a long time to complete the test. In my previous tests I have often been able to burn about 4 litres of waste oil. In order to burn 4 litres of waste oil, at 20%, I would need to burn 16 litres of diesel for a total of 20 litres. Assuming it works well, I would have to burn more to confirm this.
I am looking forward to doing this though.
I like experimenting, but sometimes the rule "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" is quite reasonable 😀
1) You explain that you are measuring the temperature where the fuel is injected. It is not clear how you do that, but if that's the case you are NOT measuring the temperature where it counts.
The interesting combustion temperature is in the center of the combustion chamber, where the spiraling fins is forcing the flow of the air/fuel mixture to accelerate and mix properly in a tornado like fashion. By grinding these fins away you are left with a slowly rotating rotating gas mixture without compression towards the center. It will just slowly flow around along the outer rim of the combustion chamber with sub-nominal mixing, cool down and exit with a lower temperature and bad combustion efficiency. In other words: Those spiraling fins are ESSENTIAL for the proper function of the Diesel Heater principle!
2) Diesel Heaters like this is using a forced, lean gas mixture with excess amount of oxygen in the combustion process. You are introducing some metal parts in the combustion chamber you later on refer to as "cheap metal". Well the metal you have chosen is simply not designed for your purpose 🙂
Firstly you use stainless steel. This material is NOT designed for use at high temperatures in a lean (oxygen rich) environment. The chromium will oxidize and the metal will crumble in this environment. Next thing you are using looks like zinc coated black steel. The steel itself is okay, but the zinc will oxidize, expand and crumble - if not simply burn away and be ejected as zinc oxide (whitish powder).
IF WHAT YOU WANT is a higher combustion temperature for burning heavier waste oil efficiently there are the following things you might look into:
1) Increase the temperature AND speed of the forced air flow mixed with the injected fuel mist.
2) Increase the rotational acceleration and compression delivered by the spiraling fins (those you just grinded away 😀). This might be achieved by casting or welding a more "aggressive" spiral, combined with slightly broader spiraling fins (to compensate for the pressure drop in the flow due to the more "aggressive" acceleration towards the center of the combustion chamber).
Note: As well the higher airflow and the aggressively forced acceleration of the air/fuel mixture towards the central combustion area will certainly increase the noise level.
But that is the price 😀 (Just a "head up" from an "Amateur Rocket Scientist" - if Google search counts in any way 😀)
Thanks for the detailed comment.
You are right about some stuff, but not so much about a few things. Fuel is not "injected" it dribbles in. I was checking the temp there because that's the info that I wanted to collect. The flash point of oil is higher, and my experimenting showed that lower temps in this area caused the heater to form soot very quickly, while higher temps were much better.... Oil needs these very high temps to flash the oil off.
While the idea of the fins are to make a spiral flow, the design is lacking and these chambers do not have a spiral flow. It's really all just a mess, and by the time the flame is formed, the outcome has already been decided based on if the fuel is flashing off well... I have never ever had an issue with build up of soot happening past the flame area... it is always the area where the fuel runs in, that is the issue.... Before the flame.
As for the metals that I used ... I was / am pretty ignorant when it comes to understanding metal chemistry and how they react in this environment. I had assumed that any metal that didn't rust easily would not oxidize easily in a flame ... still don't understand, but know that that's obviously not correct.
Injecting fuel at pressure, while regulating flow to the extent required, is a huge challenge... I have talked to a lot of people about this and it's hard to grasp how little fuel these use. If you look into it a bit you will see that the pumps they use .022 ML of fuel per pulse. x 7 per second at max heat output = .154 ML per second X 60 seconds = 9.24 ml per minute ... about one teaspoon. This is at max heat output, and you have to be able to vary your flow all the way down to about 7 times smaller than this ... while still maintaining a mist.
I agree that a better / more aggressive spiral air flow would be good... this may or may not be practical given the space restrictions... I'm sure there is a much better way than they have done it ! These heaters use about 50 watts of electrical power to operate and in some applications, this is the only way they are practical. Increasing fan load or pump load will quickly increase the power requirements. i do think that a more robust fan motor would be a cool experiment !
I would try to coat the outside of the inner burn tube with ceramic fire plaster then some steel wire and more plaster to try keeping it really hot.
That or try coating the innside instead
To contain most of the initial burn temperature innside the primary chamber
Someone had left me a comment last year saying they were having their chamber ceramic coated...
One problem is that there isn't room on the outside of the burn chamber (burn tube) Only a few mm between the tube and exchanger, and anything in that gap will cause a restriction of exhaust gasses.
@@loweredexpectations4927 ah. Have you tried coating the inside then, been considering doing it with mine but I'm not burning anything else than diesel or paraffin for now 😅
@@tullgutten I have not.
Late I know, but you really need to retain the swirl fins as the flame progressing in a vortex gives the longest burn time as the air and fuel progress as long as possible through the inner chamber to the heat exchanger. Ideally the fuel is fully consumed by the end of that inner tube. The best way to raise the chamber temperature for slower burning oil is to reduce the transfer rate of the heat exchanger, simply throttle the cooling air intake slightly, ideally with an adjustable butterfly. Initially I did mine with a piece of tape over the grille and up it went, only on straight diesel it would then error and shutdown with overheat. I have since made a solenoid actuator to slightly constrict the airflow when running waste oil and am messing around with tuning as my waste oil ranges from hydraulic fluid to used engine oil (I have thousands of litres and it still keeps coming..) and different oils burn at different rates. My next move may be to engineer a closed loop throttle body system using a servo to self govern the cooling airflow, pump speed, CO and fan speed
Cheers.
Thanks for the comment.
I agree that swirl works better to help keep the burn in a specific area, however, it is not effective in these chambers. That was the idea behind the fins, but with the chamber removed and looking inside, you can see it doesn't do much.
If you are talking about restricting the heat exchanger air, this won't work. It will get the exchanger hotter, but to have any effect on the chamber, the aluminum would have to become heat soaked.
The exchanger is basically taking heat from the chamber and throwing it away at X rate depending on air flow. It will continue to absorb and throw this heat away at increasing efficiency (to ambient air) the greater the temperature differential. In order to increase the heat of the chamber, you would need to get the exchanger temp between 400 and 600C . The closer it is to the temp of the chamber, the less energy it will pull from it.
Sounds like a cool project, but I have tried this and the science agrees.
@@loweredexpectations4927 There has been a lot of smart design work done since this type of heater was invented and a fair bit of misunderstanding when it comes to its operation. Most components have dual function (at least) and the burn chamber is no exception. The fuel (post delivery) is meant to burn from vapour around the inner periphery of the first combustion chamber and the temperature of it's annular evaporator wick is kept under control by thermal conduction back through the swirl fins. That also preheats the intake air and mixes it with the vaporising fuel as it moves through the mixer ring in the centre of the primary chamber. The next choke ring enhances the flame spiral and creates a high and low pressure differential which causes the rotating flame to spread outwards towards the tube wall where it has more time to burn while moving towards the heat exchanger. The burn chamber simultaneously transfers a lot of it's heat directly to the heat exchanger wall through conduction as they are physically connected at the colder end, so raising the heat exchanger temperature even slightly has a direct effect on the primary chamber temperature and therefore its more critical evaporation performance. The system is really mechanically tuned for diesel, but running waste oil reliably is more than just AFR and consideration should be given for contaminants that can clog the annular wick if the oil doesn't fully evaporate at the exact delivery rate, and also for what by products are left in that evaporator chamber as solids. I only use the fully stainless steel chamber for oil mix systems and modify it to be easily separated behind the choke ring, and I can easily replace the wick when needed. Running straight diesel at the correct AFR should allow hundreds of hours use before the annular wick (not the glow wick) becomes unusable, in the perfect situation it could last thousands of hours on clean diesel. Oil will always lower the service time interval unfortunately, but it is cheap... or free.
@@alasdair4161They are mini marvels of engineering, that' for sure... and there is a lot if misunderstanding surrounding the operation.
I removed the fins from my burn chamber and monitored the before and after temperature, with a thermistor attached at the exterior base of the glow plug hole. I expected to see a substantial change but was disappointed. I saw more of a change by using a few layers of gasket on the chamber flange, as this added more of an insulating barrier.
I suspect that any swirling effect is canceled by the slots that direct the air into the wick area. This would have been an much more ideal place to introduce swirl, but also likely WAY more costly, as this is a cast part and the mold for that would be almost impossible.
I assume when you say "the next choke ring" you mean "next is the choke ring" as there is only one. This part may be intended to do what you say it is, but I have seen them in operation several times, and this is not how they work in practice. I suspect the real intention of this part is to restrict the flow if the vaporizing fuel, so remains in the space where the air is coming in, instead of the air just blowing the vapours away. So, what you said but a lot less descriptive. Most of the burn happens inside of the primary chamber and only very little visible flame escapes out into the burn tube.
As I have already mentioned. I have added gaskets to the chamber glange (about 3mm) and this made a very slight difference. Most of the heat transfer is through gasses interacting with the fins on the inside of the heat exchanger. The burn chamber is actually cooler than the exchanger where the fuel goes in, even with the fins removed and gaskets installed.
For oil to fully evaporate requires WAY higher temperatures than these heaters provide in the wick area. I have spent a lot if time monitoring and testing and have been able to achieve this. At 300 - 400C waste oil burns perfectly clean with no smoke at all and produces lots of heat.
I have a chamber that I can disassemble and replace wicks, if desired, but I have found replacing wicks to be a waste of time. The heater runs well without the wick (and has no issues when running on diesel ). If the temperature of this area is hot enough, waste oil burns clean, wick or not.
I have found that, even when burning with the primary chamber at over 400C and the heater burning perfectly clean, the ash build up becomes an issue, running at max in about 8-10 hours. I have tried this with brand new oil, used oil from different batches, oil with additives and diesel, gasoline, methanol, varsol etc. Different mix ratios from 70/30 to 50/50 and burnt over 300 litres of fuel . The most run time I got was a few days at most. My heater basically ran these tests from Dec 12th to April 15th
Dave McLuckie recently posted a bunch of videos where he also attempted to burn waste oil using different viewer suggestions, and was not able to burn more than 2 litres before massive build up.
Looking forward to seeing this "Good Idea".
I'm glad you out it in quotes, lol. Just keep in mind that being a good idea and being a practical solution are not always the same thing. Good ideas find all sorts of ways to die 🤣
For real tho... It did end up being a good idea in at least a few ways.
Good stuff man! Ive been liking the heater videos you been making cuz I’m doing the kinda the same with my heater. I was about to make a video of my setup. I run my oil through some metal line wrapped around the exhaust. It’s a work in progress.
Right on... That's great ! I don't like the idea of heating with the exhaust as I've seen mine glow red a few times, so be careful, haha. My set up with the tube through the exchanger is very stable and gets the fuel plenty hot.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I agree I think I’m going to try that way next. My oil gets about 140-160f after the coil.
@@tonysdailygrind2162 I've been able to get it up over 200F using my method and insulating the steel pipe into the chamber. If you use copper tubing with this method it would get even hotter. I believe it needs to be 3/16" to fit between the fins.
To increase burn chamber temperature is very easy. I've made an aluminium butterfly or choke that slides over the heat exchanger inlet. Yesterday I was getting a heat exchanger temperature of 240 Deg C burning old fork oil. This will of course reduce heat output. Pump was 1.4hz.
I've done loads of experimentation, and even with the higher burn temp, stones still form in the burn chamber. But key to keeping this minimal is high temp and low pump speed, hence the inlet choke which stops heat exchanger cooling too much.
Thanks for the comment. Don't hear poeple mention fork oil much, haha.
I have played with restricting the inlet air in past videos, and you can get the temperatures of the exchanger up quite high. The burn chamber temperature is sadly not directly related to the exchanger temperature and limiting air flow causes the burn to be rich. I am mostly concerned with the temp of the burn chamber as I have found the exchanger temp doesn't tell you much / can be very deceiving.
Is the buildup you are getting black or white / yellow? If it is black, it is too cold, if it is white it is burning hot... based on my testing.
It is a tricky balancing act, for sure.
Yes the buildup is whitish where it's hottest, and blacker (higher carbon) in the cooler part of burn chamber, near where it's injected, but at the bottom where it collects quicker than it can burn it. This is why you need to slow the pump speed down. I think the petrified deposit is very much like the deposits found on exhaust valves of a four stroke engine. After all they run on petrochemicals or fossil fuels...
@@constantinehatzis2807 I'm sure there are a number of variables, but I have tried lowering the fuel hz and found that it makes things worse. I have a temp probe on the exchanger and I can see the temp drop considerably. If I leave it run like this, the result is a lot more carbon and alot more smoke.
If I increase the air instead of lowering the fuel, it gets better to about 4300 rpm, but then the cooling effect of the air cools the burn chamber off and it again burns with a lot of carbon. It's currently -28C here today, so I need burn as much fuel and air as possible , haha. I was experimenting yesterday and had the outside of the exchanger reading over 350C with my current mods.
Replying to all of you.. for the same pump speed, you do NOT get less heat output by using a damper to slow or increase air flow over the burner housing.. it either makes much air at one heat content or less air with more heat content per volume of air. Outside Temps mean nothing to me since my burner INTAKE air is either preheated by exhaust or sucking room air. The fuel is also warmed in several ways to make ignition easier fins inside the burner act as a heat sink to pull heat out of the chamber and into the housings mass.
Try Ceramic inserts or a round liner in the burn chamber, they get red and white hot, even the glow plug is made from them!
I like it.... any ideas of an economical source... Perhaps chunks of old spark plug... My only concern with ceramic is that it doesn't transfer heat well... so while it will get hot, it won't be good at moving heat from one space to another. ( I assume )
@@loweredexpectations4927
ceramic nozzles of sand blasters as heat core centered in the middle? Ebay? Ordered from China? If taxes and fees are ok in Ca.. They come in cheap sets with different holes. No idea, if they crack, when hot or if air flow restriction is an issue.
Maybe low cost ceramic bushings are available in wide enough sizes? They're usually thinner - less restriction. Just ideas.
@@loweredexpectations4927 All true!
@@werner.x Hmmm... I have tig torch ceramic ends and also sandblasting tips.
👍👍👍.Thanks
You're welcome.
Why not feed the hot exhaust gases back around the burn chamber. That will keep it hot
Thanks for the comment. The engineers already thought of this, and the gasses do actually circle back and exit just below where the fuel cones in... Unfortunately, enough heat is absorbed by the exchanger (it is doing its job) that the exhaust is only about 200 - 300 C at that point..... and because the chamber is bolted to the exchanger, much of that heat is dissipated into the exchanger. To top it all off, the fan blowing air into the combustion area cools it off even more.
That poor diesel heater :P Great content, your videos made me buy my own diesel heater, I didn't even know they existed in this size, great product!
HAHA... thanks for the comment ! Yes, this poor heater... Surprising what it can handle.
I’d like to see a chunk of catalytic converter in there…
I sort of tried that, but I really want to try it again with a larger chunk.
Those fins are not for cooling, they are for making sure the fire stays inside the chamber. It makes the fire go in a circle before going out the exhaust to make it burn hotter and more complete. Atleast that is what they are for in a normal size oil burner for a house.
Thanks for the comment. I think you misunderstood what I was saying about the fins. probably my fault for not explaining it well.
I know they are not intended for cooling, but they have a cooling effect. The air from the fan blows directly over them and they are part of the chamber that needs to be hot.
I realize they are there for the purpose of spirling the air as it goes in. This is why I was hesitant about cutting them off. My thought was, "is the cooling effect going to outweigh the spiral effect?"
@@loweredexpectations4927 Ah ok, thank you for the answer. I was also wondering why you called it cooling fins :) Love your experiments, they will be useful for many people inclusive me. Thanks for sharing.
@@GenerationAI2024 Yes, sorry for the confusion. I sometimes have a hard time explaining myself in front of a camera ... if not for editing, I would sound like a crazy person. I hope that my experiments are helpful for others.
Just wondering why you keep rising the fan all the way up? Obviously, this is the limitation of the burner, which cools down the burning chamber with excessive amount of air. Just keep the fan on 2-3 bars where you get the highest temp in the burning chamber and this should burn all the fuel. You have shown on the video how clean it burns on low fan with no smoke coming out from exhaust. I'm pretty sure the chamber will be much cleaner as well.
Thanks for the comment. There are a few reasons for doing this.
If I was only performing these tests in an attempt to keep the heater burning clean, I could leave it run on a low setting, but the whole idea of the heater is to make enough heat to heat my work space, and it can't do that in the low setting.
If this system was working well in a practical way, the increased setting should ramp up fuel and air flow, maintaining a good mixture and therefore maintaining the burn chamber temp and heat output... but that was not the case, unfortunately.
Lastly, I have done a bunch of testing where I leave the heater run on a lower setting. The results are generally that it takes about twice or 3 times as long to clog up, but this just makes sense... I'm burning 1/3 or 1/2 of the amount of fuel.
I'm thinking a sparkplug held in the center of the burn chamber.
That is something that I do want to try ! ...
First comment/ view 25 seconds.
Love your video. Start making a cooling device soon because summer is on the way or a way to run a ac on battery that will be cool i would pay to see ac running on batteries.
You're an overachiever 🤣 Gold start !!
Haha... yeah... summer will get here, but today is -24C and snow today... Alberta 😬
You can already buy battery operated AC. Look it up in the RV sector.
@@werner.x You only need AC twice a year here in Alberta, haha.
Ceramic or the filament from a old toaster . Maybe a second glow plug in the chamber or keeping the glow plug on ( uses lots of energy though )
What about a catalytic converter . Gets silly hot and let’s gases through .
It’s 0215hrs and my brain won’t shut off now . Thanks I think 😂
I love the ideas people come up with. Very creative, haha.
I will have an upcoming video where I do a test with a catalytic converter 🤟 ... I hate it when that happens... My brain often refuses to shut down !
The problem, I think, with used lube oils (particularly those lube oils that are recommended for 4-stroke lawn mowers) contain Zinc Phosphate compounds which are *designed* to form ashes to protect metal parts. Those ashes will slowly accumulate in the chamber, even a hot chamber. They add these compounds at perhaps 2% in some lube oils, like SAE 30. SO, over many litres of oil, you'll slowly accumulate these in your chamber, and it'll eventually plug up--which is precisely what you've been seeing.
Very true. Utility engines, motorcycles and classic cars usually have high zinc content to deal with metal to metal contact.
It will form zinc oxide when burnt, so this is likely some of what we are seeing when the oil burns clean. I am aware of this and I may have to deal with it at some point.
A humors way to look at it is the wheel is falling off my car, and I have 3/4 tank of fuel... sure, I'm going to need to get fuel at some point, but right now, I need to deal with the wheel, haha.
Based on the amount of smoke we are seeing, and crap in the exhaust, we are not getting a clean burn. Different compounds are formed at different temperatures and in different oxidizing environments. Once I can get the oil to "burn completely" / clean, then I will know what level of ash is unavoidable. Once I know that, then I can come up with an idea to deal with that.
Restrictors on any burner go at the end of the burner run. (End of the heat exchanger near the exhaust outlet). You can’t restrict the burn chamber where the fire is because the flame is so hot it will melt any metal of any kind that is in the flame. Oil flame is hot enough to melt steel.
Burners use restrictions at the end of the exchanger to hold heat in the exchanger.
Thanks for the tip... I will work on making some restrictions for the end of the chamber. I have a feeling like this won't work either as these heaters are very sensitive to restrictions... but I guess as long as the restriction is slightly less than the exhaust outlet... it might work 🤷♂️
I've watched all your videos as you release them and appreciate all your efforts! This is by no means to discourage you but I'm convinced that even if you made a custom burn chamber that will operate on used motor oil, your still going to need to clean out the chamber after a measured amount of burnt oil. Therefore, if I was in your shoes, I'd be looking at enlarging/lengthening the burn chamber to give more capacity and maybe cause more heat to remain in the heater.
On a different note, I know you're looking at individually controlling the fan and pump speed, but since it seems your struggling with burn ratio and chamber temp I would think the housing fan would need to be modified or adjusted to compensate with the different fuel.
I appreciate your comment and realize that what you say is true. I do realize that an oil, even when burning clean, will produce enough ash to become a serious problem in this heater.
The main reason why I am focusing on getting the temperature up (recently) is because I feel like I need to be able to get consistent results where all of the oil is flashing off / vaporizing. The heavy smoke that I am getting suggests that I am not getting complete combustion and I have witnessed the low temperatures.
I suspect that this project / experiment will lead to me making my own burn chamber, but the testing, at this point, is as much about putting ideas to rest as it is getting the desired result. I would also like to be able to make progress while doing things that the average person could do.
I almost started building my own chamber last week and had to talk myself out of it to continue with testing that I "need to do". I have received a new controller and ecu that allows me to change the pump hz and fan speed independently and testing with it has been interesting. It is possible that the fan may need to be modified.
I believe you should get rid of the gas in your mix. I have a waste oil furnace in my shop and it is hell if you get much gasoline in the mix, it is explosive in stead of just flammable. It explodes and blows out the flame front and blows oil past the burn chamber that builds up in the chimney we have had a few instances of chimney fire because of this or a few times with some hydraulic oils. Our waste oil furnace has big warnings on the tank and furnace not to put any gasoline in it. I believe that has more to do with your observations on the metal bubbling and flaking than any lean condition. I believe if anything if you ran just oil and cetane booster or a diesel mix you would have alot more success in your modifications. The mesh or screen idea is good for the oil but bad for gas i believe. Oil needs something to break it up and atomize it better but the gasoline is more energetic and you probably create detonations with the mesh.
Thanks for the detailed comment !
I had been using a much higher gas content and had issues with it burning too rapidly and causing backfiring... I have also had my exhaust catch of fire for similar reasons. Now, with mods to my chamber and lower % of gas, I haven't had any issues like that in a while. I am continuing to test with all sorts of mixtures including oil with no gas.
They do make these heaters that that actually burn diesel or gasoline... I have not seen what the chamber looks like, but the higher end companies seem to all make one. Gas is a much more dangerous fuel as it fumes at room temperature and ignition can mean a big bang instead of a slow burn.
Cheers.
Try material from an old turbine wheel from a turbo next time. Weld it with inconel filler material, and it will be fine. Good luck!
I'll have to go to the scrap yard and get an old turbo 😁
What about cutting short slits in the end of the burn chamber and slightly bend them inward. Sort of like an old carburetor throat. Watch nobox, he builds a bunch of different style burn chambers and just about every one is narrowed at the end. Just an idea.
Thanks for the advice.
I looked up nobox and found a bunch of stuff but nothing about that. I am currently playing with restricting the end of the chamber by basically flipping the tube around and placing the reduction ring at the outlet of the tube.
Why don't you try fire place bricks in the burn chamber. Just use a hole saw to cut round pucks out and put them in the burn chamber . Give it a try.
I suppose that would work as well as anything, if it was cut to the right size and shape.
I have messed with rocket stoves for years. Steel will burn away no mater what it is. I lined my stove with firebrick. How about some kind of brick plug with holes in it. Something to build thermo mass.
This is very true... This video was indirectly dedicated to someone who called me an idiot for wasting my time and said all I needed to do was X ...
If you have an oxidizing flame, very little can stand in the way of it without being destroyed or consumed. I grew up in a house with wood heat, a wood stove and wood heat in our garage.
Joel..another great video and packed with information and more importantly results. Thanks for the plug, very much appreciated 👍. Relating to experience making manifolds and exhausts for turbo cars, I sort of recall discovering that at a certain temperature, stainless no longer stays stainless and reverts back to mild steel. Thus why lots of stainless exhausts eventually rust through at their hot spots. Could this be the issue with the mesh 🤔
Haha... yes... I knew the mesh was going to do this before I even started the test, as I had tested it days before with a blowtorch... I did this experiment because a commenter called me an idiot and said that I wasted my time making all these videos when all I needed to do was jam a scouring pad in there and, bla bla bla... 🤣 I decided not to mention any names but that's why I titled the video as is... haha.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Ah I see. Very curious to see what you were thinking at the end of this video as the next test. Also..meant to respond to the.cold temperature there. -24C is seriously cold, well it is if you are from the UK and not Alaska. Coldest I have experienced was -17C during a winter trip to Romania and that was seriously cold enough, can't imagine what -24 must be like.
@@shanehogarth6373 Haha.... It is -28C today (-33 with the wind) and it has been colder this winter. We have a lot of nice days here in the winter, but we also get some really cold weather.
@@loweredexpectations4927
In Southern Bavaria, where i grew up, we used to have -25 sometimes, but these days are gone.
I'm not mad about that and i stopped skiing in 1977 anyhow, because it was 't funny, to wait at the skilift a long time, then shoot down fast, wait a longt time in freezing cold.....and so on. Lesser snow, lesser problems.
But now it's too warm, we got this urge to buy electric cars to save the world - extremely expensive to buy, short ranged, electricity cost more than Diesel, charging points are rare. And 2035 we cannot get new gas or diesel cars any more, this is what the EU decided these days. Ok, i might be dead or too shaky to drive by then anyhow - and we still will have a huge stock of used combustion cars left. Which by then surely will be fined with extraordinary taxes. So, nothing for the working poor either.
But who know's, we might be nuked by then, no problems left and World saved too.
Whatever - good thing, we don't get - 25 anymore with an electric car at the parking lot, isn't it?
Wonder, what you Canadians do, if it comes to save the world with electric cars and still so cold there 🤣
@@werner.x Haha.. .yes, waiting for the lift sucks.
Seriously ... I wonder if the 2035 legislation will actually stick when 2034 comes around... Seems to me, by the time 2035 comes, there will be a serious problem of what to do with all the old electric cars... There's going to be a lot of batteries to recycle. Don't worry... I'm sure the government has it all figured out 🤣
I'm not against electric things when they make sense, but when they force changes thoughtlessly just because it feels like the right thing to do, based on emotion or to push a political point... well, we end up where we are today. You can brush your teeth fine, stir your drink well and open your wine bottle with ease WITHOUT batteries, but because they are being worshiped as the greatest thing ever, every scooter, greeting card, McDonalds toy has a battery ... that didn't need one in the first place, and will be in a landfill either immediately or within 5 years.
There are a surprising number of Tesla cars in this city. They have made themselves a status symbol, and they fit will with the virtue seeking public. People drive home their electric car to a heated driveway, heated garage, hot tub and swimming pool, with a licence plate that says "no2 gas" or something stupid. You burn more fuel heating your driveway than I burn in my jetski all year, idiot 🤣
Do you think drilling and tapping a steel or brass plug into the front of the burn chamber would help with burn deposit inspection? I figure a nipple with a plug that can be taken off after cooling, you could insert a borescope into the chamber to see if it needs to be totally disassembled. Thanks for the great content!
I assume you mean the aluminum heat exchanger as the fan is at the end of the burn chamber. Yes... I have thought if this... I was thinking of making a brass bushing and putting an egg beater or auger in there... maybe even have it turn while the heater is on to stop crap from settling ... It might happen🤷♂️
5:30 when are you adding the soy sauce? 😁
Took me a minute to figure out what the heck you were talking about, haha.
Cool dude...
I think it's Chinese stainless steel. You need 400 series stainless
I'm guessing that most scouring pads don't see 1000ºC usually 🤣 ... I wonder if there is a 400 series stainless steel wool or equivalent .
Wouldn't it be cool to put a speaker on the inlet and create a standing wave in the burn chamber that could be tuned to a specific area? With a frequency generator and amplifier, could adjust the resonate node to your desired burn area and burn ultra lean.
Interesting idea, but unless I'm missing something, this wouldn't increase the overall volume of air. If it created a strong standing wave that was able to trap the air, or delay the air in a specific area, it would also trap burnt gases.
It would be interesting to see what you could do with a powerful driver... Some have suggested ultrasonic speakers to break up the debris.
@@loweredexpectations4927 If you could change the frequency in a chirp sweep, it would move the trapped gasses out of the traveling wave tube. If timed with the pump pulse it would propagate the burn along the entire tube in a wave cycle.
@@nonsquid That sounds interesting.
I was able to find 316L stainless steel wool on Ebay. You might have better luck than using 400 series stainless. 316L is good for 1600f in intermittent service of 1700f in continuous service.
Thanks !
My friends I would like your help and thank you for your time I have a 5 kw hcalory stove and when it works it smells like burnt plastic, I have tried everything and I have extra waterproofing every surface what could it be?? thanks
Hello, sorry to hear you are having troubles.
I am not able to diagnose this without having the heater in my possession. It is possible that the smell is just because it is new, but it could also be melting plastic.
If you are not comfortable removing the heater from the plastic case to inspect it (it is very easy to do) then I would say to run it for an hour while monitoring it and see what happens.
After only two minutes of running, the only part that would be hot enough to melt plastic, would be the exhaust pipe. Even if plastic was touching the heat exchanger, it should not get hot enough to make a burnt plastic smell as it only reaches around 200C
Good Luck.
I wonder if a chunk of the metal mesh from inside an old busted catalytic converter would work
Can you get your hands on some titanium shavings like that stainless steel scrubby pad? Make sure its not fine...the more course the better.
or create a 3-4x strip "star" of metal. this way it doesn't impede the slow of flame but heats up and helps burn the fuel better
Interesting Ideas... I have a video where I tried a catalytic converter ... I'd like to try that again.
Try pebble stones
Hmmm. That has never been suggested before. Interesting.
@@loweredexpectations4927
It's used in some waste oil burners
I don't understand something here. You cut an air intake bits off because you think they take too much heat from burning chamber where flame gets ignited, but you add even more material and even further from a fuel ignition chamber for fuel be ignited at a higher temperature? and dont those fins help with the flame in so many ways?.
Hello and thanks for the comment.
Yes, this actually makes perfect sense, probably once I explain it.
The fins that I cut off are connected to the area that I want to stay hot, and were exposed to the cool inlet air coming in. They would act as cooling fins.
The materials that I added are further from the ignition source, but are directly in the path of the flame itself. The source of the flame is not the hottest part. The tip of the flame usually is.
The idea is / was, that these materials would slow the flow of heat that would otherwise escape out the exhaust or into the heat exchanger. Burning the fuel makes X amount of heat. The idea of this was to try to influence where that heat went.
The idea of the fins is to create a spiral air flow. If you have seen David McLuckie's videos, he had a heater with the end cut off the exchanger. In practice, these fins may disturb the air flow some, but they do not cause it to spiral or vortex.
Cheers !
@loweredexpectations4927 I think better atomization and restriction is the way. Maybe I am wrong. Soon I will get mine (if I can bloody get one with controller that does allow access to hidden menu) and will start messing it up like you until I find the most economic way (fuel consumption) to keep it running all the time. I guess you don't care about consumption as long as its burning at high temperature.
@@marcass100 Not sure if you know, but the only method of atomization these heaters have is by flashing off the fuel in a wick material. There is not injector and the fuel is not injected at pressure.
If you are speaking of burning waste oil, restriction could potentially be a way to keep more heat in the burn area. This can be difficult, as you need enough air flow to deliver adequate oxygen. It's a fine balancing act between enough airflow to get your oxygen, and too much air flow, and carrying your heat away.
Ultimately, non fuel oils leave behind soot and particulates when burnt. Diesel and fuel oils are refined to ensure they burn clean without leaving behind this junk. Good luck !
I quickly lost track how many times you have taken your heater apart in total.?.
I thought about trying to keep track, but I have taken it apart literally 5-6 times in a single day before.
Of course it was gonna disintegrate what did u expect this pieces of metal the heat will melt it
I did a lot of testing like this with a pretty good idea that most of the tests would fail. This particular test was done because someone called me an idiot and guaranteed that this would fix everything... hence the title.
Another idea better run
Haha... probably not a bad idea.
what about stainless steel straws, maybe?
i don't know what grade of steel these thing are made of, but I would guess cheese.
I assume that's a typo ? Screws ? I will be testing all sorts of different junk in there in some upcoming videos, haha.
@@loweredexpectations4927 possibly meant straws ?
like a nuke reactor or EGR cooler with loads of tubes.
but the SS is a _really_ bad heat conductor.
i could imagine kind of a counterflow fuel input. just like it already is but in a way the heat travels past the swirly thing before it enters the exhaust. 5 axis cnc work at the horizon 😄
@@casemodder89 Currently accepting donations for my new 5 axis cnc 🤣 ... for real tho... I've started building my own burn chamber... I'm sure that it will turn out worse than the one that actual engineers designed, but I'm going to give it a go.
@@loweredexpectations4927 i'd donate 1K if you'd send me the finished WMO approved 5kw heater body milled from a block of inconel 😂
@@casemodder89 HAHA... deal.
Can u share your settings for the pump speed and the ventialator speed on waste
oil.Thank you .
Hey, I'm currently running a controller that does not allow me to change or view these parameters. I have a new controller and may be able to do a video about it in the future, but I have been quite rushed trying to get videos edited and published. I believe the factory settings are 5.5hz and 4500 rpm at max.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Thank you so much.
I would suggest getting a cheap stainless steel bowl and cutting it and fitting it so the walls of the burn chamber have stainless steel if you put the wall inside in the path of the flame always remember impingement
IMPINGEMENT
EQUALS SOOT😁
I think what you are saying is like a stainless sleeve inside the burn tube ?
what causes the burn intake to make a buzzing sound that started after I got a few E-8 Codes?
im just using diesel
Hey... This sounds like you have a plugged exhaust or burn chamber. It it is carbon and your are only burning diesel, it could be that you are running too rich. Perhaps the inlet air is blocked or restricted, your ecu is feeding too much fuel or you are at a high elevation and require less fuel than normal.
In my experience, this buzzing noise is usually carbon build up in the area between the baffle and the reduction rin (the place that is almost impossible to clean)
Whatever is causing the E-8 code is probably the same thing that is causing the blockage.
@@loweredexpectations4927 just diesel
@@macuser2469 I saw that you said that, I just wanted to clarify.
Nichrome wire!
I have had a few people suggest this. I have been considering nichrome wire connected to a power supply, to force the oil to flash off.
was the scouring pad magnetic? because if its slightly magnetic its 304 and if its not magnetic its 316. but if it was magnetic it was most probably anything from a EN4 bright to a EN9 bright.
Yes, it is magnetic.
@Lowered Expectations ow buy the buy. Excellent videos. I would never have a use for this heater but it's good fun seeing you mess with it.
@@ldsk938 You're not the first person to say that 🤣 ... I do torture it.
I can't wait to see your 60 volt Electric Ski Jet with 10 6 volt deep cycle lead acid batteries work IT will be warm soon
LOL... yeah... It's -28C (-18F) here today and hard to imagine that it will ever be warm again.
@Lowered Expectations -17f here tonight so I was just thinking I think
@@donnied6759 Gross, haha.
Not sure if I've already commented this on one of your other videos already but: I've bought some catalytic 'wool' that is used in petroleum fuel hand warmers.
They in theory should glow red hot and I plan to put a few of them in the burn chamber in a similar manner as your video.
From one of these:
ua-cam.com/video/WE-b2LjRW5E/v-deo.html
You could also use a propane heater core, the ceramic cores are coated in some sort of catalyst which is what makes them glow. You could cut a few strips of the ceramic and put it inside the burn chamber perhaps?
I think I have seen this comment before... that is an neat idea. I had one of those soldering irons... wondered how it did that. Is it expensive ... shunds expensive...
@@loweredexpectations4927 the little platinum and ceramic wool Squares are cheap. I bought a pair off AliExpress for like 4 buck shipped
@@rattech I like the sound of that. My only concern / doubt is is that I'm guessing the gasses need to pass through the ceramic catalyst to activate it. This may be tricky.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I guess cheapest and most readily available material would be nichrome wire (heating element wire) you can get some to test from a broken electric space heater or similar. If it survives you can get a spool from Mc-Master or digi-key (and probably most other electronics stores).
Alternatively there is listings on ebay of whats supposed to be inconel lockwire. If its real it should also work.
@@hans3123 Thanks... I have had this suggestion before and can get nichrome wire on Amazon relatively inexpensive. I shouldn't have thrown out that old hair dryer, haha.
I was actually thinking about using the wire to make a heating element inside where the fuel comes in... Even if it takes 300W or so to flash the oil off, it could be worthwhile.
can you run on coking oil and see how much ashes is burn chamber ? Please :)
I'm running mine on "processed" vegetable oil. It's perfectly clean. I convert it biodiesel with methanol and lye and strain off the soap. Kind of boring.
I bought some new clean veg oil so that I can eliminate the filtering process and see what happens. I'm not sure when I will have that test out, but I will do it at some point.
That sounds cool to me...
@@loweredexpectations4927 I haven't tried SVO, but I can tell you that if you do try to run it straight, you're going to have some issues with an unmodified controller. Then again, you might not because you're heating your oil. It'll probably run just fine. Might have a little residual gunk, but I think it would be much cleaner than motor oil. You might just be able to dope it with 20% diesel or methanol and it runs normally. The only reason I'm treating mine is because it's all of the leftover turkey oil from my extended familys' thanksgivings.
@@Jam3s2001 Yeah... when I do it I will be mixing 20 - 30% diesel as that is the most common request that I get and everyone has access to diesel.
I have a feeling that your diesel heater hates you.
It is a 100% justifiable hate, haha.
O shit everyone move away
There have been lots of houses selling in the neighborhood... but the property value seems to be going up... what gives? lol.
stainless ?? look more like chineesium to me
Accurate, haha.
Clickbait 22 minutes waiting for the ultimate free heating solution.
Who pays for this lifetime?
Since these cleaning pads are thin, every temperature related molecule change happens very quick. And since it is normal for the cheap V2A rust resistant steel to get surface rust after glowing bright red for a while, i never expected cleaning pads to resist molekular change at all.
I just checked the 1.4301 datasheet and it states, the starting point of changing to chromium carbide starts from 400° C on, if exposed longer and speeding up with more heat.
That's a surprisingly low reaction temperature (for me). It is far from glowing at this point. I'd think, you'll see a brownish glow from well above 600° Celsius. So, your cleaning pad not even had the hint of a chance.
Your brittle stuff looks like chromium carbide. Fits the data sheet.
BTW:
Without beeing a chemist, i'd suspect nonetheless, that the exhaust gasses this time were very carcinogenic.
That problem of the just one percent chromium loss right into my breathing air during welding of chrome steel stopped me from working as a tungsten welder. Because it is required by law to suck away the welding gasses before they can reach your nose and no company, i started welding for, did give a shit. So, i didn't go that way further on.
Part of the reason for my awareness is, that there were no old welders around in my youth. If you don't count the dead ones.
So better think twice, if chromium is involved, wherever it is in.
For instance brown gas. All over youtube. Highly carcinogenic.
No, i ignorantly did draw the wrong conclusion. I looked up chromium carbide - and guess what - its combustible.
So, the chrome carbide went into the chimney and the leftovers are probably some kind of ashes.
@@werner.x you complain about wasted time yet look at the time invested for a reply....
He is doing a series. Its fun. Move on.
@@fmemories do i really have to mark this explicitly as a joke?
I did spend the (still unpaid) extra time to look for smileys. At least i tried.
@@werner.x my bad read too fast
The reason for this video, and the title is because some guy was really rude and called me an idiot, told me that I wasted my time making a bunch of videos because all I needed to do was put some scouring pads in there and it would work fine... I knew this would happen because I hit them with a torch before using them and they did the same thing...
I called the guy out in a video clip and decided not to use it... some people are just miserable... this was my polite way of saying " You sure this works"
That's good to know about the possible carcinogenic fumes... I wouldn't have thought if that... I would have considered it unhealthy, but not to that point. The chamber is VERY unforgiving... Speaking of tungsten and unhealthy... I used a tig tungsten in the chamber to see how unforgiving it was, and even the tungsten oxidized ...