@@BadApplePC98 i mean i certainly see your point and agree with you... Ice is typically bad, on its own, adding water to it, kind of removes some of those flaws.
Even before Fairy type the _real_ dragon slayer type was Dragon type. Ice type Pokemon have such shit stats, unless you were using Weavile it was a better strategy to use your own Dragon type at the risk of them taking you out than use an Ice type. If more Ice type Pokemon were like Weavile and were super offensive glass cannons and less glass walls like Avalugg the Ice type wouldn't be so bad.
Yeah, I honestly stand by this statement 'the only good ice types are Weavile and Frosslass' their the only fast ones that can make use of the Ice types glass cannon stats.
@@BLUEBOYISLEDGE 110 speed is faster than garchomp and it has 80 in both attack stats, I constitently kills Garchomp, so whenever I use one it does the job.
So in history you have the ice age, stone age and iron age. Ice age comes first. Then Stone age. Rock beats ice. Then Iron age. Steel beats both rock and ice. So I can't help but think that Pokémon has predicted the "Punch age" and I wonder when it'll be here.
fwiw Steel usually winds up being mid-high tier in Monotype metagames with Psychic, Flying, and Water usually outshining it. On the other hand, Ice, while not good, can _usually_ scrape by well enough to avoid the bottom tiers. I know monotype is very different from standard singles, and typically reflects the depth and diversity of options a type has more than how good it is on any specific pokemon, but just think it's interesting how context can warp the results so heavily with this kind of thing. Also really just wanted to play devil's advocate for my favorite type, Ice, lol.
Got me real good at "saying crazy things like Sword and Shield is a good game". Literally blurred out laughing. Thanks a lot for your videos. They always make my day better!
Mawhile got huge power and zacian had absolutely no balance whatsoever, so that's not really fair for the op ness of steel fairy. I think the best example is actually klefkey, who is one of the most used Pokemon in AG in one of the generations, while having pretty much no redeeming qualities other than the typing and prankster.
@@mangosteak I swear I thought it was steel psychic. It was also banned from ou, so another great example. I looked it up and those are literally the only 4 steel fairies. Two banned from ou, one from ubers, and another one that despite terrible stats sees consistent play in ubers and even AG. Steel fairy is absolutely insane.
Yeah Zacian-Crowned is just disgustingly broken Think Dragons in Gen 5 and multiply it by 8 and you have the brokenness of Zacian Crowned It has a monstrous attack especially with Intrepid Sword and is really fast. It's not like it just dies to anything because it has defensive stats of 115 and HP of 92.
I agree, but not because of its offense/defense typing, but rather the abilitys and moves they get. They are pretty instrumental in helping set up the Buff and Sweep Imported laid out as one of the goals of battling by way of controlling switch outs, enemy items, and a number of non direct methods of control. Basically, where steel and water are looking to bulk up, soak hits, and sweep, Dark is looking to check threats TO those sweepers, so they can take the time to bulk up. And while not a lot of what Dark does is specific to dark types only, they have a tendency to have better, easier access to those means.
@TheGreatDanish Nah (fire emblem character), things like prankster is neat, but really, it's things like knock off and sucker punch being great moves with stab that make dark great post steel nerf.
I want to raise a counterpoint to all tierlists that say that Rock is a good type: it is absolutely not. It matches Grass for most amount of weaknesses with 5 (Water, Grass, Fighting, Ground and Steel) and barely any combination of Rock-anything has good synergy. Even Rock-Steel sucks. What happens is that Stealth Rock is so damn busted it makes the Rock-type look good Edit: glad this list pointed it out lol
@@BLUEBOYISLEDGE none of those Ppkemon you mentioned are beasts because of their Rock-type, they're beasts in spite of said type. Terrakion might be the only exception to that because back in its hayday Rock and Fighting were a really good comb but not anymore. I mentioned Ice because it shares a surprising lot with Rock-type, except Ice offensively is at least top 4, but as it stands in general it's garbage. That Rock-Ground combo you mentioned also applies to Ice (BoltBeam), but just because they have great offensive coverage doesn't mean Pokemon benefit that much from having either Rock- or Ice-type Like I said, it's not that Rock is that good, it's just that Stealth Rocks are so damn busted that they make Rock-type look good by virtue of existing. Pre-Gen 4 you have Tyranitar (which combines a lot of traits to be a beast and being Rock-type is far down the list) and maybe the Gen 1 Rock-type (but Gen 1 is such a mess it's not even funny). And all this on top of the fact that Gamefreak proved my point already: Rock was so garbage they had to give it 2 huge buffs in Gen 4 (SR and the 50% SpDef boost in Sandstorm)
@@ImportedCheese But then Freeze-Dry would be useless! The other points are good though. Also Fairy should be weak to and resisted by both Ice and Bug (maybe not weak to Bug, but absolutely should not resist Bug). Gamefreak really did my favorite types dirty. At least Salazzle exists
Your pun game is so on point, it’s one of my favorite aspects of your videos. “Water you gonna do about it” is the one that got me this time. 4 fighting-type thumbs up.
I need an explanation as to why ice types aren't super effective against water types. The cold freezes water. Ice types are really cold, and also why don't they resist grass types?
@@ImportedCheese Since making my comment, I've had the realization that an in-game mom/family tier list sounds funnier than an in-game potion sprite tier list. Anyway, thanks for the reply, and I'm pogged for more tier lists 😎
TBF to rock types, they do technically have the best move in the game. Not that there is literally any advantage to being a Rock type and using the move over not, but it might technically count for something, I guess?
It shows how good Steel and Dragon were pre-fairy when Drag-Mag was a viable strategy. For those who don’t know in Gen 5 people would run Magnezone and maybe like one or two Pokémon specifically to kill steel types that resist dragon; then load up the rest of the team with dragon types like Garchomp, Salemence, the Latis, etc. and go to town.
Poison is my favorite type, and lord, do I agree with this placement. I have to work so much harder to pull of my sweeps with my poison types than I have to with *anything* else. But boy is it fun to smack down ubers with a fucking Muk.
I generally agree with your placements overall even if I have some minor nitpicks I could make, though I think the biggest thing I disagree with is putting Fire in B. I just didn't really see where the downside is that prevents it from getting in A. It is probably the most effective check against the strongest type in the game, has a nice resistance against the 2nd best type in the game as well, and has perfectly serviceable offensive and defensive matchups aside from that as well. Stealth rocks hurt, sure, but they're not impossible to play around by any means.
As a rock type fan its sad to see how neglected it is by the devs. Most good rock type pokemon (Garganacl, both Tyranitars, and Nihiligo) are pretty much hindered by their typing and are usually good because of their stats or utility they bring. Salt cure and purified salt is broken though im surprised Garganacl's usage isnt higher that thing is a walking war crime if tera ghost or fairy.
Id be into an in game type tire list given how some types like Steel are great defencively but on offence... may as well be normal most of the time or what types like ground tend to do fine but are weighed down by bad moves in certain gens
I’m not an ice type fan, but I def think sword and shield gave it a significant buff. The large amount of pivot moves and heavy duty boots means that it’s actually not as hard to get offensive ice types in as you think. Ice STAB is absurdly good. Defensive ice types are still ass tho. Also hail is actually the best weather in OU (well maybe not right now, but for a long stretch it was considered potentially banworthy)
To be fair to Rock/Fire and Rock/Ice, it’s not necessarily that the type combos are bad it’s that the Pokémon at the time this video was recorded didn’t play into the strengths of the combos. Rock, Fire, and Ice all have something major in common: they’re great offensively and meh to horrible defensively. If this was on a Pokémon built to be a glass cannon that would just try and out speed and ko the opponent like Weavile it wouldn’t be so bad. Unfortunately they put these type combos on slow “bulky” “defensive” Pokémon like Macargo. Fortunately since this video released Hisuian Arcanine was released and he was really good being fast enough to outpace major threats, had priority Extreme Speed, and it had Rock Head so it could spam Head Smaash, Flare Blitz, and Wild Charge with little consequences. The only major downsides were water and ESPECIALLY GROUND types. We haven’t had a Rock/Ice type try this approach yet, but a Pokémon with offensive advantages against Dragon, Ground, Fire, Flying (and to an extent Grass and Bug) all for super effective AND almost nothing resists that combo is pretty good offensively. That said, if you get hit, oh MAN you’re in trouble: 2 4x weakness to rock and steel and you’re hit super effectively by water, rock, and grass and ground if you don’t knock them out first. It’s resistances also all SUCK with it only resisting poison, normal, ice and the best type it resists is flying. I feel like a Rock/Ice type engineered for offense wouldn’t be AMAZING, but it’s definitely be something to watch out for and could work with a glass cannon like Weavile. As for Rock/Steel, it is hot garbage; Ghost/Normal does the cool thing we’re they’re weaknesses kinda cancel out, Rock/Steel tries to do that and instead all of its weaknesses are brought to the forefront.
I unironically think Fire Should be higher probably a low A The offensive stuff is great as you said decimating Steel types but it's also great defensively resisting 6 types including Fairy and Steel While it not benefiting from Chlorophyll bar Scovillian kinda sucks it's still a great type
??? Is midtier for having okay moves and no weakness. Typeless is the same. Bird is not included because it is banned in all competitive, including anything goes.
The stronger bug type pokemon really do stick out, though. Bug-Steel is still a real good combination, cause it only has a single weakness in fire. Incidentally, fire type attacks are a tad limited, not that many pokemon can learn them(compared to, for example, Earthquake). Mono-bug type is actually not that bad, either. Ground and Fighting resistance is quite handy and their weaknesses aren't *that* common at least. Bug Flying types, though.. they are the worst. Vespiquen is a sad mon, cause she'd be a pretty decent wall if not for her horrible dual typing.
I think the only thing I'd do is move Normal up to B tier. Plenty of dominant or at least OU normals in every gen, between Tauros, Snorlax, Blissey, Kangaskhan-M, Lopunny-M, and Porygon Z. Linoone being the only normal type to get Extremespeed is a meme, but stab Return on Normals is probably good enough to get them to B on its own, Headbutt is good, Quick Attack is at the very least a priority move. That and Normal Pokemon do still have the gimmick of "can learn a shitton of different moves".
Of course there's interest in more tier lists. Fun to hear you talk about pokemon! Even if it's "useless playthru tiers for types" - sure, surf to win, but hearing your take on this would be fun anyway! Thanks for making another awesome vid!
I do like the Ice Type. I don't like Ice Pokemon but you can just slap Ice Beam on any Pokemon that can learn it and you can't really go wrong with it.
I put this video on in the background while I was doing chores and I kept getting distracted, you are just too witty! I laughed much more than I expected to, great video as always :D
I'd personally put Fire type in A because it counters Steel. It should be noted that Fire hits Steel typically from the special side rather than Ground and Fighting which hit it from the physical side where steels are more bulky at. I'd also drop Ghost to B rather than A. I think Rock should be B maybe as well since it's a monster offensive typing that hits 4 different types (bug, fire, flying, and ice) for super effective damage. Just my personal takes on your tier list. I really enjoy these tier list videos please make more of them!
Oh my bad dude I kinda watched this video before I went to sleep and skipped through it. I was just commenting on the end result of tier list rankings. Btw are you gonna do a Gen 5 tier list? All the ones on YT arent good in my opinion. I would love to hear your tier list take on Gen 5.
I overall agree, maybe dark could be a bit higher because it's strenghts really mess up with people (dark pokemon turn Prankster Pokemon into literal clowns). About changing some times, I believe Ice should at the very least resist Ground, which could work thematically and well, the idea of Abomasnow being pretty much inmune to EQ is hilarious.
- electric type would be s tier if any Pokemon with a completentary type wasn't purposefully nerfed by stat distribution or lackluster abilities - flying is just better normal type, and is S tier as a complementary type. - bugs have U-turn carrying it
@@electrocast yeah that, but like every electric half decent duel type electric pokemon is good , magnezone, rotom forms tapu-koko thundurus, zapdos Imagine tapu Koko if it had moon blast, 120 spark and something like ice Beam or surf. And rotom W was top tier with stats that sucked ass.
I can actually argue water is as good if not better than steel for few reason. - Kyogre being the best pokemon for 3 generation straight. - Gen 5 rain team is so stupid to the point they actually make a clause for rain team specifically because of how busted rain team are. - Some mad man in europe won big tournament with (kinda) mono water type. It has Urshifu dark but all of his pokemon are water type except for that one Urshifu. Which is just stupid. - Access to ice type move mean that the only good counter for water type is another water type.
Nothing ever benefits from being Ice type, it's only a disadvantage. Rock is almost as bad, but there's a few pokemon where it covers weaknesses of the other type. I will say Earthquake being so good is incredibly irritating. Its downside in doubles is really easy to get around and my personal team building constantly ran into the issue of "wow check out this cool new pokemon - oh wait it's weak to Earthquake never mind I guess". I stopped battling online after gen 5 because it just became really aggravating.
@@ImportedCheese Woah. Don't hug it too hard. You know what happened to the guy that hugged his Gardevoir too hard? Let's just say it started something that shouldn't of been started
Speaking from experience with my Pokemon Xenoverse run, Curse is VERY, VERY GOOD on a Ghost type. Those bosses with multiple health bars were so bs and having a way to constantly drop its bar in significant chunks was so nice. Edit: I would not put water in S rank. Not even close. B is a better place. Although there are notable exceptions, water's stats are abysmal in comparison to others. Yes, they do have decent overall coverage, but they are essentially the normal type of higher tiers. And that's not a good thing.
Water's biggest benefit is that its only two weaknesses have a lot of problems offensively. Grass is a bad offensive type and bad type overall. Electric is overall a good offensive type, so it's the only really good option againdt water, but ground types being immune and super effective to electric means that if the opponent reads you and switch, you're fucked. This is part of why bulky water types are so good in competetive.
One thing about Steel types that has always annoyed me... Steel-type are immune to Poison so you can't use Toxic on them, but then they can learn Toxic themselves! Every Pokemon in Gen 2 could learn the Toxic TM, and I hated that I could never use Toxic on a Steel-type but a Steel-type can use Toxic on me.
While Ice is a horrible type still, it's at its best in gen8, because Heavy-Duty Boots were introduced, and a new really strong move in triple axel which literally made Weavile be considered the 2nd best pokemon in the format at some point (although it fell off a bit recently) and hail was also considered the best weather for some time because it enabled Arctozolt. so yeah in gen8 i'd consider it the 2nd worst type thanks to all the buffs it got
The worst part of discovering your channel and plowing through all of these tier lists is having no tier lists left to watch. (I'm not there yet, but, uh, I'm well on my way).
Interested in seeing this. Wolfey is on record thinking Bug is the worst type, below Ice. As a noob, I disagree, Ice is the worst - my favorite type too. And my second favorite is Poison. Oof. So you being so competent, curious as to whether you place Ice or Bug at the bottom.
Fairy is the best type. A stupid defensive type with only two weaknesses to two garbage attacking types. It also hits three of the most powerful types for super effective damage too.
Ordered within tiers: S - Steel, Fairy, Water A - Ground, Dragon, Fire, Fighting, Ghost B - Dark, Flying, Grass, Psychic, Electric C - Rock, Bug, Normal D - Ice, Poison
Great list & very entertaining vid. My only criticisms are that fire & dark should be A, electric should be high B, & poison, ice and bug should be lower probably need a D tier. I think you’re underrating normal & rock slightly. Normal types generally have tons of move diversity and the ghost immunity is huge. Rock types tend to get a lot of good move options. I do agree that Rock as a duel type is usually trash. Rock is better as a pure type, just look at how good Garganacl is
Hate the fairy type sooooo much. Smh. Need to make it weak to fire as well, and remove its bug/dark type resistances. Gen 5 😂 buff dudes on dragons punching steel types no matter what weather the forecast called for
There used to be no physical rock type attacks with 100% accuracy, but in gen 7 Lycanroc's signature move Accelerock was introduced, and it's just rock-type quick attack and it has 100% accuracy.
To make Poison a better type, it should simply be immune to Fairy types. Also give it a much stronger effect when you inflict poison to give it notable advantages over many types. Steel probably needs to have Ice be removed out of it's resistances to reduce it's supreme defenses into just mega coverage. Ice needs to resist Dragon and Ground, to give it some much needed niche power and to give all Ice Types a fighting chance. Normal types should be focused on their main advantage: their normal type being pretty good with coverage. Have it be a 1.75x STAB with normal type moves, to give them added Oomph when smacking something.
Offensively, Dragon type isn't very good at all. It's only good against Dragon. It's basically an upgraded version of Normal type with better defenses. BST absolutely does not matter when ranking specifically the type itself. You're not going to say Goomy is a busted Pokemon, are you? That's a Dragon type. Really, Dragon is only good for additional defenses. Don't bother with it unless you're in gen 5 where dragons are everywhere.
I'd actually put Fire in A-Tier, despite usually going for the Water-starter and Fire not even being close to my favourite types, just because of how many resistances it has and having strong physical and special moves. The Chad 120 Flareblitz vs. the virigin 90 Wildcharge idk what they were thinking by basicially murdering physical electric mons. Ik they wanted to make Pikachu's Volttackle stronger, hence why THAT has 120, but c'mon just buff Wildcharge to at least 110 and Volttackle to 150, it's fucking Pikachu who cares, make Volttackle overpowered, he's not gonna destroy the meta in any form. Speaking of which, can Gamefreak finally buf Ice-types defensively? :') Add a Water-resist or something, ugh. All-though special mention should go to A-Ninetales, because it IS really good, but that's not because Ice-types are good, more-so instead Aurora Veil being super strong.
i would say that normal types special trait is that they usually get some of the biggest movepools in the game to make up for the shittiness of being a normal type
Poison is good because of the Nidokingdom, Swallot is actually scary with Gunk Shot and the other stuff is kinda bad. I wouldn't go as far as saying they deserve A, but a mid B why not? They can learn a lot of TM types, very versatile and unless they are getting quaked or psyqued, you are not killing them.
They'd probably manage at least B if they didn't get completely walled by the best type in the game that is 100% on every single team, possibly in multiples
I think the future games would benefit allot from the bottom five at least making it so they could be considered B rank, for instance: Ice should be super effective against water and quad resistant to it. It gives a much needed nerf to waters to have to fear something else other than electric without being too overbearing because Ice's main problem is how water can just splash an Ice beam and be better Ice type in effect with a bit less bite... which is why I'd also give an accuracy boost to all ice moves when they are actually used by an ice type - lets say 20% so now people have to deal with the threat of gen 1 blizzard when an ice takes the field. You still have to deal with fire, rock, and fighting which is fair enough since your hitting so many things for big damage already. Rock should have a gimmick, and lets say it starts with getting the same 20% boost to accuracy to all it's rock type moves when it's actually being used by a rock type - similar to how Ice was treated. Now add on another inherent quality where they mirror poison types or electric - they not only negate stealth rock but absorb any and all stacks of it on the field. And you might be thinking - well just predict it and destroy them with something like low kick or any common move other mons spalsh into for coverage... if they enter the field and absorb stealth rocks they also get the effect of solid rock for that 1 turn only (this doesn't replace their ability). Everything else you leave the same. Normal really only needs more moves that give it the potential to super effective hit different types while still being normal type moves to give it some bite - kind of like Freeze-Dry (you'd have to be very careful about how many of these normal type stab moves there are and what base power they have). Otherwise it's fine because have the most variety should elevate them, should. Bug and poison I'm really not sure about - they need the most help. Psychic isn't oppressive anymore because bug's rep was saved... only to make dark type in the next generation and they still had the worse mons per capita in terms of stat caps because they've been the glorified teaching tool for evolution while ironically not changing much as they did evolve. Poison is kind of funny because it's best move is learned by just about everything, so I'd change it so only poison types that use toxic can badly poison the target using that move. Then give it a bunch of really good resistances at either x4 or a wide spread of x2 - maybe taking some away from steel. It should be the more long-game kind of type even compared to steal - a somewhat fitting alternative for certain niches and outright countered by it's shiny contemporary due to it's immunity.
I would like to see a tier list for in-game, not with the best attacks counted for, but simply the best type matchups against gym leaders and elite 4. Which game? Your call, but it could be a whole series, or just a big video like this
Advantage for normal type: Ghost type immunity (Poltergeist doesn't hits a normal type), STAB Boomburst Disadvantages: Normal attacks doesn't hits ghost types (Unless you have Scrappy), Fighting types DESTROYS him.
Ice is terrible, it's my favorite one. It's one of two typings that makes steel worse when paired together, other one being rock. On another note why did they give hail nothing? Rain and Sun boost water and fire moves respectively, Sand boosts rock types Sp.def and hail gets...? Listen, if they're gonna keep a glass cannon typing in a game where Steel continues to exist they can at least make Hail give Ice types a 1.5x Sp.ATK buff to make it the offensive version of sand. Oh and make an ice type mon with tinted lens, for funsies.
Been a bit since I watched one of your videos, just haven't been on a Pokemon kick lately.... god you are funny. I forgot how much I like hearing you just make jokes and talk and stuff
The changes I want to see to the type chart: Steel weak to Psychic Fairy weak to Bug Water weak to Poison Ice resists Dragon I'd also like Ghost resists Fairy, just so Ghost/Dark has no weaknesses again, but Ghost doesn't really need a buff.
Grass resists Rock and Fairy Grass is no longer weak to and resists Ice and Flying Poison strong against and resists Water Bug being neutral to Ghost and Fairy Bug resists both Psychic and Dark Bug is no longer weak to (although is still resisted by) to Fire and Rock, but is now weak to Fairy Ice now resists Water, itself, Dragon, Flying and Ground Rock is weak to Ice Ghost strong against and resists Fairy
Ice did get a few buffs in s/v, but it's still not the cream of the crop. Still, it's my favorite type and I always have at least one ice type in the party 🥰
Only thing I disagree with is psychic. It should be up in A as it bodies fighting types hard and it learns the most coverage moves. No, seriously, psychic types can use nearly every single type in the game. Not many use rock moves, but most of the others can be used.
I'd place Fairy above steel, we could argue between old steel and modern fairy but any gen with both I'd rather be fairy. Steel is great but losing resistances to ghost and dark really allowed things that used to be hard stopped by steel to now do good damage to them, Fire and ground are super common in battle (steel's strength is a big part of them being common, but still), and steel while amazing defensively tends to be a poor stab (worth it for the defensive typing, but still). Fairy's weaknesses on the other hand are irrelevant types offensively (only bullet punch scizor is notable) causing teams to have to awkwardly include one just for fairy types rather than simply be a good offensive types teams include like fire and ground. Fairy also doubles as one of the best stab types for attacks. We truly live in Crocker's nightmare. Fairy also singlehandedly killed dragon spam, its resistances while not as crazy as steel are still incredible and is why close combat after gen 5 isnt as spamable as before and now its realistically your only answer to dark, speaking of which- I'd put dark higher in S if we are talking gen 6+, if we are talking about earlier then Id probably rank it similar to you. While Fairy becoming a new counter for it hurt, the sharp decline in the fighting type fairy caused alongside steel losing its resistance to dark changed the whole game for this type that was niche pre-gen 6. The type is huge for offensive pokemon as it allows them to absolutely shred everything besides fairy. It also means stab on two incredible moves: knock off and sucker punch, as well as pursuit pre-dexit. This video was before gen 9 so you did not yet see the ruined treasures show the absolute power of dark (at least the offensive ones) but even before gen 9 the rise of Bisharp who while steel wasn't really taking any hits due to its base 65 hp and weavile who happily spammed knock off should be sufficient evidence of the pure power the dark typing provides to offensive pokemon. Its not good but not bad defensively, just middle of the road. Its only bad weakness is fairy but psychic immunity is sometimes nice but whats really cool is that both of its resistances to ghost and dark are great given how powerful those types are offensively. Dragon is honestly very mid, Id immediately place it in B just for nice defensive utility, type has lost all offensive presence. Gens 4-5 we place it in s tier for sure, gen 3 maybe S, maybe high A. Before gen 3 the type is mostly liability for dragonite (ice was really common offensively) (dragonite would've been amongst the best in the game as a normal type which is funny) and nice for kingdra but it lacks notable dragon stab so its just a nice defensive thing. After gen 5 though we are for sure b at this highest. The rise in fairies absolutely demolished dragons, the type is no longer good offensively as its in a sense a glorified normal type not really hitting foes for super effective damage while you invite the best defensive types, fairy and steel, to come in easily where they'll happily take advantage of your outrage locked/-2 (draco meteor) state to place hazards or set up, and I know you're not running dragon claw or pulse they don't cut it, you're for sure running outrage and draco meteor. I'd consider electric in S but I think I'd ultimately agree to the A placement. Fighting would be b tier, dealing with the fairies is really hard for them. Also doesn't help defensively. The type doesn't really help a a pokemon anymore, the fighting type mayhem in gen 5 was pretty brief given it only lasted a single gen where they were great, now conkledurr is sometimes good and urshifu is silly but otherwise its not that cool anymore. Ghost S easy gens 6+, this type is pretty much just upsides not really downsides. Incredible stab that no one can deal with (Dark types are typically frail since the type isnt a common defensive one + focus blast/fairy coverage for many ghost types and lol normal), dark weakness is rough but its nice to only have one type and your own types as a weakness, and two whole immunities. Pursuit hurts but even with pursuit I would put ghost in S and post-dexit the type just randomly got an insane buff it didn't need. The only thing really holding back ghost types as a whole from going absolutely crazy is noticeable lack of great splashable stab with special attackers depending upon shadow ball (80 base power is workable, but the competition is things like ice beam, the 80 base power is noticeably weaker) while physical attackers are often left in the dust but this problem is becoming increasingly irrelevant as gamefreak keeps giving their shiny new ghost type toys crazy new moves including but not limited to: astral barrage, last respects, and rage fist. I agree with grass but I wouldn't even bother mention weakened by weather, most of the grass types you'll see arent really there to take advantage of the sun but to leverage the resistances you mentioned and their nice status moves, so they arent hurt anymore by hail or sandstorm than other types while they actually love rain probably more than sun due to it helping deal with their most common weakness, fire, especially ferrothorn making ferrothron a common pick for rain teams in gen 5.
@ImportedCheese If only steel wasn't resisted by water and itself, and the only other types it hit super weren't notorious for being awful with a ton of weaknesses (ice and rock) then maybe steel would actually be a relevant weakness plenty of dual type steel types don't even opt to run a steel type, instead opting for whatever their other type is for stab even after fairy's introduction.
It saddens me that Bug got the short end of the stick when you consider Pokemon exists kin the first place because of bug catching. I think to start with they should buff Bug types by Steel no longer resisting them because they can be small and get into the gaps of armor, and because Steel underestimates them
@ImportedCheese Given the weaknesses Fairy has were for poor offensive types, making it resist Bug instead seems to just confirm the game developers hate the type
In competitive there are hardly any Ice Types banned. Even the Pokemon Gamefreak intended to be broken in Kyurem and Black Kyurem were unbanned in Smogon formats. It took like 3 Generation until the Black form got banned. Another Pokemon that got banned is Darmanitan because Gamefreak had big brain idea to give it a free choice band. That means for the longest, the only banned Ice Type in Smogon was Arceus Ice and if you want to count it Greninja in Generation 6 when using an Ice Move. I think Bug got so many Pokemon that resist it because U-Turn is such a powerful move that gives amazing momentum. There is no Pokemon that's immun to it or can stop it. You forgot to add resistance to Knock Off to Dark Types. That is a selling point since it got buffed in Gen 6. Btw, did you just spoil a new form from Legend Arceus? :(
There is actually a AAAA battery! Ironically, however, A-series batteries get smaller with more A's, so you might be better off just giving Electric type a AA anyways.
Fun fact: Empoleon has 10 (Formerly 12) resistances and an immunity. Water/Steel is a crazy type combination.
i'm stunned we haven't gotten another one.
Steel may have lost 2 resists but gained Fairy. 11?
Aegislash has 9 resistences and 3 immunities. Fairy/Steels also have 9 resistences and 2 immunities. Just shows how hard the steel type can be to out.
How is a literal penguin not an Ice type?
@@BadApplePC98 i mean i certainly see your point and agree with you...
Ice is typically bad, on its own, adding water to it, kind of removes some of those flaws.
I love that Dialga is what pops up during the fairy talk. One of the few dragons that can take on fairies.
Also the god of time. Very helpful when you need to manipulate time to mention an oversight. Celebi can be a little harder to track down at times…
I think he'll be popping up every time I need to add in a post-production narration.
He pauses the video!
Unfortunately got outclassed by Necrozma Dusk
*Dragalge wishes to know your location*
@@Magic_Ice but you can use dialga defensively so that necrozma can use the gg buttons more often
Even before Fairy type the _real_ dragon slayer type was Dragon type. Ice type Pokemon have such shit stats, unless you were using Weavile it was a better strategy to use your own Dragon type at the risk of them taking you out than use an Ice type. If more Ice type Pokemon were like Weavile and were super offensive glass cannons and less glass walls like Avalugg the Ice type wouldn't be so bad.
No justice for ice types
Yeah, I honestly stand by this statement 'the only good ice types are Weavile and Frosslass' their the only fast ones that can make use of the Ice types glass cannon stats.
@@BLUEBOYISLEDGE 110 speed is faster than garchomp and it has 80 in both attack stats, I constitently kills Garchomp, so whenever I use one it does the job.
So in history you have the ice age, stone age and iron age.
Ice age comes first.
Then Stone age. Rock beats ice.
Then Iron age. Steel beats both rock and ice.
So I can't help but think that Pokémon has predicted the "Punch age" and I wonder when it'll be here.
It came and went with the introduction of the Gay-acceptance era for Fairy-type inclusion.
fwiw Steel usually winds up being mid-high tier in Monotype metagames with Psychic, Flying, and Water usually outshining it. On the other hand, Ice, while not good, can _usually_ scrape by well enough to avoid the bottom tiers.
I know monotype is very different from standard singles, and typically reflects the depth and diversity of options a type has more than how good it is on any specific pokemon, but just think it's interesting how context can warp the results so heavily with this kind of thing. Also really just wanted to play devil's advocate for my favorite type, Ice, lol.
You have a Yatsuhashi pfp you must be correct
Nice try, Mitsuhide!
So then what's the worst type for monotype?
@@tdawgmaster1729 Rock is always garbage in monotype
Got me real good at "saying crazy things like Sword and Shield is a good game". Literally blurred out laughing.
Thanks a lot for your videos. They always make my day better!
Thanks for watching!
The dream is that BD/SP are great and the Gen 8 bashing can stop...we'll see.
@@ImportedCheese idk bdsp looks pretty bad
@@ImportedCheese sadly that doesn't appear to have been the case. GameFreak really slipping lately
@@ImportedCheese you were saying?
@@tenanaciouz to be fair, ilca made bdsp, not gamefreak.
Mawhile got huge power and zacian had absolutely no balance whatsoever, so that's not really fair for the op ness of steel fairy. I think the best example is actually klefkey, who is one of the most used Pokemon in AG in one of the generations, while having pretty much no redeeming qualities other than the typing and prankster.
I loved the pun in that part: "if you combine Steel and Fairy what do you get? BANNED!"
magearna is a pretty good special wall thanks to its typing
@@mangosteak I swear I thought it was steel psychic. It was also banned from ou, so another great example.
I looked it up and those are literally the only 4 steel fairies. Two banned from ou, one from ubers, and another one that despite terrible stats sees consistent play in ubers and even AG.
Steel fairy is absolutely insane.
Yeah Zacian-Crowned is just
disgustingly broken
Think Dragons in Gen 5 and multiply it by 8 and you have the brokenness of Zacian Crowned
It has a monstrous attack especially with Intrepid Sword and is really fast. It's not like it just dies to anything because it has defensive stats of 115 and HP of 92.
@@DrDrao
That’s what happens when you combine the best type in the game, Fairy, with the second best type in the game, Steel.
Dark definitely deserves to be A. Great offensive type and underrated defensive type. There is a reason they are always all over OU
So does fire deserve A
I agree, but not because of its offense/defense typing, but rather the abilitys and moves they get. They are pretty instrumental in helping set up the Buff and Sweep Imported laid out as one of the goals of battling by way of controlling switch outs, enemy items, and a number of non direct methods of control.
Basically, where steel and water are looking to bulk up, soak hits, and sweep, Dark is looking to check threats TO those sweepers, so they can take the time to bulk up. And while not a lot of what Dark does is specific to dark types only, they have a tendency to have better, easier access to those means.
The Gen 6 Steel "nerf" was more a buff to Dark, if anything.
K N O C K O F F
@TheGreatDanish Nah (fire emblem character), things like prankster is neat, but really, it's things like knock off and sucker punch being great moves with stab that make dark great post steel nerf.
I want to raise a counterpoint to all tierlists that say that Rock is a good type: it is absolutely not. It matches Grass for most amount of weaknesses with 5 (Water, Grass, Fighting, Ground and Steel) and barely any combination of Rock-anything has good synergy. Even Rock-Steel sucks. What happens is that Stealth Rock is so damn busted it makes the Rock-type look good
Edit: glad this list pointed it out lol
@@BLUEBOYISLEDGE is Ice-type a good type then?
@@BLUEBOYISLEDGE none of those Ppkemon you mentioned are beasts because of their Rock-type, they're beasts in spite of said type. Terrakion might be the only exception to that because back in its hayday Rock and Fighting were a really good comb but not anymore.
I mentioned Ice because it shares a surprising lot with Rock-type, except Ice offensively is at least top 4, but as it stands in general it's garbage. That Rock-Ground combo you mentioned also applies to Ice (BoltBeam), but just because they have great offensive coverage doesn't mean Pokemon benefit that much from having either Rock- or Ice-type
Like I said, it's not that Rock is that good, it's just that Stealth Rocks are so damn busted that they make Rock-type look good by virtue of existing. Pre-Gen 4 you have Tyranitar (which combines a lot of traits to be a beast and being Rock-type is far down the list) and maybe the Gen 1 Rock-type (but Gen 1 is such a mess it's not even funny). And all this on top of the fact that Gamefreak proved my point already: Rock was so garbage they had to give it 2 huge buffs in Gen 4 (SR and the 50% SpDef boost in Sandstorm)
Imo to buff Ice type they should get rid of Water’s resistance to Ice, and make Ice resist Flying or Dragon type.
Water should be weak to Ice and Poison, also Normal should be super effective against + resist Fairy change my mind
They should give ice an immunity to grass
@@ImportedCheese Ice should be immune to water, resist flying ground flying grass. Also get 1.5 boost to defense in hail and keep frostbite from PLA.
@@ImportedCheese But then Freeze-Dry would be useless!
The other points are good though. Also Fairy should be weak to and resisted by both Ice and Bug (maybe not weak to Bug, but absolutely should not resist Bug).
Gamefreak really did my favorite types dirty. At least Salazzle exists
It's a very cruel world out here for us bug type lovers. They really should have made fairy also weak to bug just to throw them a bone!
No idea why they're so cruel to bug types
Yeah, two weaknesses to bad offensive types isn't a lot. My boy Heracross needs some new targets to skewer!
@@movezig5 And my wonderbug Shedinja
Your pun game is so on point, it’s one of my favorite aspects of your videos. “Water you gonna do about it” is the one that got me this time. 4 fighting-type thumbs up.
I need an explanation as to why ice types aren't super effective against water types. The cold freezes water. Ice types are really cold, and also why don't they resist grass types?
There is no freezer at the GameFreak offices.
The reason why there's life on Earth is because ice floats and keeps water from freezing further.
Ice prevents water from freezing.
seeing how your content has evolved over the past >1 year is crazy, the effort and personality you bring is just so entertaining
More tier lists please :)
Potion in- game sprite tier list for April Fools (or October Fools if you want to be a trend setter)
There will be more tier lists in the future! Gen 5 someday...
I already have an April Fools vid in mind, although it won't be a tier list...
@@ImportedCheese Since making my comment, I've had the realization that an in-game mom/family tier list sounds funnier than an in-game potion sprite tier list.
Anyway, thanks for the reply, and I'm pogged for more tier lists 😎
TBF to rock types, they do technically have the best move in the game. Not that there is literally any advantage to being a Rock type and using the move over not, but it might technically count for something, I guess?
It's almost worse for rock types. Since SR suppresses rock weak Pokemon, Rock STAB becomes less valuable.
Sneaky pebbles good?!
It shows how good Steel and Dragon were pre-fairy when Drag-Mag was a viable strategy. For those who don’t know in Gen 5 people would run Magnezone and maybe like one or two Pokémon specifically to kill steel types that resist dragon; then load up the rest of the team with dragon types like Garchomp, Salemence, the Latis, etc. and go to town.
Fairy is OPOP, but something did need to be done
“They’ll go home saying crazy things like ‘Sword and Shield were good’”. Hahahahaha. I am subbing.
Our legions grow...
Poison is my favorite type, and lord, do I agree with this placement. I have to work so much harder to pull of my sweeps with my poison types than I have to with *anything* else. But boy is it fun to smack down ubers with a fucking Muk.
At least Muk got to star in a Karen Challenge episode...!
Your photo editing skills never cease to amaze me.
Ghost type is my favorite 👻
I generally agree with your placements overall even if I have some minor nitpicks I could make, though I think the biggest thing I disagree with is putting Fire in B. I just didn't really see where the downside is that prevents it from getting in A. It is probably the most effective check against the strongest type in the game, has a nice resistance against the 2nd best type in the game as well, and has perfectly serviceable offensive and defensive matchups aside from that as well. Stealth rocks hurt, sure, but they're not impossible to play around by any means.
What a Fire type shill!!
I would never overrate fire, never!
@@ImportedCheesesad chimchar and darmanitan noises
As a rock type fan its sad to see how neglected it is by the devs. Most good rock type pokemon (Garganacl, both Tyranitars, and Nihiligo) are pretty much hindered by their typing and are usually good because of their stats or utility they bring.
Salt cure and purified salt is broken though im surprised Garganacl's usage isnt higher that thing is a walking war crime if tera ghost or fairy.
Why is rock so frail
29:23 you don't get the damage boost. airborne mons aren't effected by terrains at all.
i'll never admit to being wrong
@@ImportedCheese but you're not admitting that you're right either.
i love your tier lists. such good commentary in addition to being funny and interesting.
Thank you!
Gen 5 tier list...someday...
Id be into an in game type tire list given how some types like Steel are great defencively but on offence... may as well be normal most of the time or what types like ground tend to do fine but are weighed down by bad moves in certain gens
"Steel is the best, Ice is the worst"
Alolan Sandslash: **confused**
Combined?
M E D I O C R E
When they were designing steel and they asked what types should it resist, they just said "yes!" Laughed so hard at this cos it's so true
When the best types are basically the knight, the princess, and the dragon. Good 'ol fantasy core.
Creatively bankrupt franchise! Just rips off other fantasy tropes!
I’m not an ice type fan, but I def think sword and shield gave it a significant buff. The large amount of pivot moves and heavy duty boots means that it’s actually not as hard to get offensive ice types in as you think. Ice STAB is absurdly good. Defensive ice types are still ass tho. Also hail is actually the best weather in OU (well maybe not right now, but for a long stretch it was considered potentially banworthy)
Ice types eating well scarlet and violet, especially dlc (one of the biggest buffs was the chance not to be ice type though lol).
Great content as always - still super looking forward to the Gen 5 in game tier list!
One day for sure...
*Excadrill Intensifies*
To be fair to Rock/Fire and Rock/Ice, it’s not necessarily that the type combos are bad it’s that the Pokémon at the time this video was recorded didn’t play into the strengths of the combos. Rock, Fire, and Ice all have something major in common: they’re great offensively and meh to horrible defensively. If this was on a Pokémon built to be a glass cannon that would just try and out speed and ko the opponent like Weavile it wouldn’t be so bad. Unfortunately they put these type combos on slow “bulky” “defensive” Pokémon like Macargo. Fortunately since this video released Hisuian Arcanine was released and he was really good being fast enough to outpace major threats, had priority Extreme Speed, and it had Rock Head so it could spam Head Smaash, Flare Blitz, and Wild Charge with little consequences. The only major downsides were water and ESPECIALLY GROUND types. We haven’t had a Rock/Ice type try this approach yet, but a Pokémon with offensive advantages against Dragon, Ground, Fire, Flying (and to an extent Grass and Bug) all for super effective AND almost nothing resists that combo is pretty good offensively. That said, if you get hit, oh MAN you’re in trouble: 2 4x weakness to rock and steel and you’re hit super effectively by water, rock, and grass and ground if you don’t knock them out first. It’s resistances also all SUCK with it only resisting poison, normal, ice and the best type it resists is flying. I feel like a Rock/Ice type engineered for offense wouldn’t be AMAZING, but it’s definitely be something to watch out for and could work with a glass cannon like Weavile. As for Rock/Steel, it is hot garbage; Ghost/Normal does the cool thing we’re they’re weaknesses kinda cancel out, Rock/Steel tries to do that and instead all of its weaknesses are brought to the forefront.
quadruple
Keeping Ice in C tier is a conspiracy put in place by Chad Dragonite users.
Nice try, Lorelei!
Based Imported Cheese. Always great to see a new video from this channel. Keep up the great work dude :)
Eyy thanks for the support! Although I think "Steel good, Ice bad" is about as not-based as you can get lol
I unironically think Fire Should be higher probably a low A
The offensive stuff is great as you said decimating Steel types but it's also great defensively resisting 6 types including Fairy and Steel
While it not benefiting from Chlorophyll bar Scovillian kinda sucks it's still a great type
Fire is good!! But youtube comments hate charizard
Ah, but what about the, uh, um, ??? type, bird type and typeless type?
??? Is midtier for having okay moves and no weakness. Typeless is the same. Bird is not included because it is banned in all competitive, including anything goes.
Ya got me, this video is a SHAM just like all my others
The stronger bug type pokemon really do stick out, though.
Bug-Steel is still a real good combination, cause it only has a single weakness in fire. Incidentally, fire type attacks are a tad limited, not that many pokemon can learn them(compared to, for example, Earthquake).
Mono-bug type is actually not that bad, either. Ground and Fighting resistance is quite handy and their weaknesses aren't *that* common at least.
Bug Flying types, though.. they are the worst. Vespiquen is a sad mon, cause she'd be a pretty decent wall if not for her horrible dual typing.
I think the only thing I'd do is move Normal up to B tier. Plenty of dominant or at least OU normals in every gen, between Tauros, Snorlax, Blissey, Kangaskhan-M, Lopunny-M, and Porygon Z. Linoone being the only normal type to get Extremespeed is a meme, but stab Return on Normals is probably good enough to get them to B on its own, Headbutt is good, Quick Attack is at the very least a priority move. That and Normal Pokemon do still have the gimmick of "can learn a shitton of different moves".
Of course there's interest in more tier lists. Fun to hear you talk about pokemon! Even if it's "useless playthru tiers for types" - sure, surf to win, but hearing your take on this would be fun anyway!
Thanks for making another awesome vid!
I do like the Ice Type. I don't like Ice Pokemon but you can just slap Ice Beam on any Pokemon that can learn it and you can't really go wrong with it.
I put this video on in the background while I was doing chores and I kept getting distracted, you are just too witty! I laughed much more than I expected to, great video as always :D
Yesss B A C K G R O U N D ad revenue!
I'd personally put Fire type in A because it counters Steel. It should be noted that Fire hits Steel typically from the special side rather than Ground and Fighting which hit it from the physical side where steels are more bulky at. I'd also drop Ghost to B rather than A. I think Rock should be B maybe as well since it's a monster offensive typing that hits 4 different types (bug, fire, flying, and ice) for super effective damage. Just my personal takes on your tier list. I really enjoy these tier list videos please make more of them!
I...think I said all of those things about Fire in the video, right?
Oh my bad dude I kinda watched this video before I went to sleep and skipped through it. I was just commenting on the end result of tier list rankings. Btw are you gonna do a Gen 5 tier list? All the ones on YT arent good in my opinion. I would love to hear your tier list take on Gen 5.
I overall agree, maybe dark could be a bit higher because it's strenghts really mess up with people (dark pokemon turn Prankster Pokemon into literal clowns).
About changing some times, I believe Ice should at the very least resist Ground, which could work thematically and well, the idea of Abomasnow being pretty much inmune to EQ is hilarious.
- electric type would be s tier if any Pokemon with a completentary type wasn't purposefully nerfed by stat distribution or lackluster abilities
- flying is just better normal type, and is S tier as a complementary type.
- bugs have U-turn carrying it
also stat averages for electric would be miles better if half the type wasn't held back by unevolving pikaclones.
@@electrocast yeah that, but like every electric half decent duel type electric pokemon is good , magnezone, rotom forms tapu-koko thundurus, zapdos
Imagine tapu Koko if it had moon blast, 120 spark and something like ice Beam or surf.
And rotom W was top tier with stats that sucked ass.
I can actually argue water is as good if not better than steel for few reason.
- Kyogre being the best pokemon for 3 generation straight.
- Gen 5 rain team is so stupid to the point they actually make a clause for rain team specifically because of how busted rain team are.
- Some mad man in europe won big tournament with (kinda) mono water type. It has Urshifu dark but all of his pokemon are water type except for that one Urshifu. Which is just stupid.
- Access to ice type move mean that the only good counter for water type is another water type.
I find it pretty dumb how almost every water type in the damned ocean learns Ice moves for coverage. But Electric types can get cucked.
Least they could do is make Electric-types able to learn fire moves like Flamethrower and Fire Blast.
Nothing ever benefits from being Ice type, it's only a disadvantage. Rock is almost as bad, but there's a few pokemon where it covers weaknesses of the other type.
I will say Earthquake being so good is incredibly irritating. Its downside in doubles is really easy to get around and my personal team building constantly ran into the issue of "wow check out this cool new pokemon - oh wait it's weak to Earthquake never mind I guess". I stopped battling online after gen 5 because it just became really aggravating.
Cheese: *Ranks Bug and Grass very low at the start of the video*
Me: *Hugs my sweeping Leavanny in White version*
Hug it harder, it needs all the support it can get...
@@ImportedCheese Woah. Don't hug it too hard. You know what happened to the guy that hugged his Gardevoir too hard? Let's just say it started something that shouldn't of been started
@@shaunduzstuffs what :0 sauce plz
@@LordRemiem Wdym "sauce"? You want some ketchup or something? Why?
@@shaunduzstuffs oh sorry xD I thought it was based on some post or some image
Speaking from experience with my Pokemon Xenoverse run, Curse is VERY, VERY GOOD on a Ghost type. Those bosses with multiple health bars were so bs and having a way to constantly drop its bar in significant chunks was so nice.
Edit: I would not put water in S rank. Not even close. B is a better place. Although there are notable exceptions, water's stats are abysmal in comparison to others. Yes, they do have decent overall coverage, but they are essentially the normal type of higher tiers. And that's not a good thing.
Water's biggest benefit is that its only two weaknesses have a lot of problems offensively. Grass is a bad offensive type and bad type overall. Electric is overall a good offensive type, so it's the only really good option againdt water, but ground types being immune and super effective to electric means that if the opponent reads you and switch, you're fucked. This is part of why bulky water types are so good in competetive.
Love the Yokai Watch music
Maybe you could do a tier list for all the tribes in YKW I’d totally watch that
I gotta admit I don't know enough to actually make a video like that, sadly.
Normal was top 3 best type in the game in Gen 1 though, not just "without many disadventages or advantages" lol
I think I say in the video that normal used to be good, right?
One thing about Steel types that has always annoyed me... Steel-type are immune to Poison so you can't use Toxic on them, but then they can learn Toxic themselves! Every Pokemon in Gen 2 could learn the Toxic TM, and I hated that I could never use Toxic on a Steel-type but a Steel-type can use Toxic on me.
Steel is just unfair overall
They like, throw used syringes at you or something... How does most pokémon even do do toxic?
If only every ground type was as good as gen 5 excadrill
*Laughs in VGC Landorus*
While Ice is a horrible type still, it's at its best in gen8, because Heavy-Duty Boots were introduced, and a new really strong move in triple axel which literally made Weavile be considered the 2nd best pokemon in the format at some point (although it fell off a bit recently) and hail was also considered the best weather for some time because it enabled Arctozolt. so yeah in gen8 i'd consider it the 2nd worst type thanks to all the buffs it got
I don't know why fairy and ghost is resisted by bug tbh like maybe it would been ok if bug at least resist fairy along with it.
No idea, GF can never give bug a break
When you know about nobunaga and hidesyoshi because of inazuma eleven
The worst part of discovering your channel and plowing through all of these tier lists is having no tier lists left to watch. (I'm not there yet, but, uh, I'm well on my way).
There are so many, though! Dozens of hours!
Interested in seeing this. Wolfey is on record thinking Bug is the worst type, below Ice. As a noob, I disagree, Ice is the worst - my favorite type too. And my second favorite is Poison. Oof.
So you being so competent, curious as to whether you place Ice or Bug at the bottom.
Ice bros
Ice should resist and super effect water imo. And poison should super effect fighting.bug on fairy while we're at it
I dunno if poison should beat fighting, but it should be water.
Nerf water!!!!
@@ImportedCheese my reasoning for poison over fighting is saying no to drugs /steroids
I love your channel so much. You're such a cool and funny guy
Fairy is the best type. A stupid defensive type with only two weaknesses to two garbage attacking types. It also hits three of the most powerful types for super effective damage too.
It probably would have been #1 here if the fairy types themselves weren't kinda....eh
Ice types are the worst? That's cold man.
Not cold enough, get Ice types outta my game!
Ordered within tiers:
S - Steel, Fairy, Water
A - Ground, Dragon, Fire, Fighting, Ghost
B - Dark, Flying, Grass, Psychic, Electric
C - Rock, Bug, Normal
D - Ice, Poison
Nerf fairy
Excadrill is the giga chad of steel types
Great example of Steel type allowing the other typing to go crazy.
Great list & very entertaining vid. My only criticisms are that fire & dark should be A, electric should be high B, & poison, ice and bug should be lower probably need a D tier. I think you’re underrating normal & rock slightly. Normal types generally have tons of move diversity and the ghost immunity is huge. Rock types tend to get a lot of good move options. I do agree that Rock as a duel type is usually trash. Rock is better as a pure type, just look at how good Garganacl is
Normal is horrible
No wonder Mitsuhide was the coolest guy in that game 😏
Not a Dragon type fan, I see.
Hate the fairy type sooooo much. Smh. Need to make it weak to fire as well, and remove its bug/dark type resistances.
Gen 5 😂 buff dudes on dragons punching steel types no matter what weather the forecast called for
Make it weak to bug and normal
There used to be no physical rock type attacks with 100% accuracy, but in gen 7 Lycanroc's signature move Accelerock was introduced, and it's just rock-type quick attack and it has 100% accuracy.
I think Gen 5 Smack Down is also 100% accurate!
It's Smack Down tho
@@ImportedCheese You are correct! I forgot about that move
To make Poison a better type, it should simply be immune to Fairy types. Also give it a much stronger effect when you inflict poison to give it notable advantages over many types.
Steel probably needs to have Ice be removed out of it's resistances to reduce it's supreme defenses into just mega coverage.
Ice needs to resist Dragon and Ground, to give it some much needed niche power and to give all Ice Types a fighting chance.
Normal types should be focused on their main advantage: their normal type being pretty good with coverage. Have it be a 1.75x STAB with normal type moves, to give them added Oomph when smacking something.
Anything to nerf fairy pls
"Have I taken Rock types for granite?"
No.
And with scald, water types are now better at burning things than fire types are.
Hey man, Lava Plume also has a 30% burn chance!
Offensively, Dragon type isn't very good at all. It's only good against Dragon. It's basically an upgraded version of Normal type with better defenses. BST absolutely does not matter when ranking specifically the type itself. You're not going to say Goomy is a busted Pokemon, are you? That's a Dragon type. Really, Dragon is only good for additional defenses. Don't bother with it unless you're in gen 5 where dragons are everywhere.
This really informed me on what moves get what boost that I didn't know beforehand
There's so many minor details!
And they mostly don't matter eyyy
Love the channel cheese!
In your opinion, how much better would Ice be if it gained the following resistances: water, ground, and dragon?
If it resisted three great types it would be better, yes
I'd actually put Fire in A-Tier, despite usually going for the Water-starter and Fire not even being close to my favourite types, just because of how many resistances it has and having strong physical and special moves. The Chad 120 Flareblitz vs. the virigin 90 Wildcharge idk what they were thinking by basicially murdering physical electric mons. Ik they wanted to make Pikachu's Volttackle stronger, hence why THAT has 120, but c'mon just buff Wildcharge to at least 110 and Volttackle to 150, it's fucking Pikachu who cares, make Volttackle overpowered, he's not gonna destroy the meta in any form.
Speaking of which, can Gamefreak finally buf Ice-types defensively? :') Add a Water-resist or something, ugh. All-though special mention should go to A-Ninetales, because it IS really good, but that's not because Ice-types are good, more-so instead Aurora Veil being super strong.
I think Fire should be A, but youtube commenters hate fire types
Bro what? Why don't you like fire types
@@Eminster I don't *don't* like them, it's just not my favourite type.
@@VioletLunaChan fair enough
Tyranitar is a Rock type and Tyranitar will always be S tier, so that must mean Rock type is good, checkmate
Biased username!!
Correction: if you don't know what Stealth Rock is, you're lying
Charizard profile pic...makes sense
i would say that normal types special trait is that they usually get some of the biggest movepools in the game to make up for the shittiness of being a normal type
What a consolation
Poison is good because of the Nidokingdom, Swallot is actually scary with Gunk Shot and the other stuff is kinda bad. I wouldn't go as far as saying they deserve A, but a mid B why not? They can learn a lot of TM types, very versatile and unless they are getting quaked or psyqued, you are not killing them.
They'd probably manage at least B if they didn't get completely walled by the best type in the game that is 100% on every single team, possibly in multiples
I think the future games would benefit allot from the bottom five at least making it so they could be considered B rank, for instance: Ice should be super effective against water and quad resistant to it. It gives a much needed nerf to waters to have to fear something else other than electric without being too overbearing because Ice's main problem is how water can just splash an Ice beam and be better Ice type in effect with a bit less bite... which is why I'd also give an accuracy boost to all ice moves when they are actually used by an ice type - lets say 20% so now people have to deal with the threat of gen 1 blizzard when an ice takes the field. You still have to deal with fire, rock, and fighting which is fair enough since your hitting so many things for big damage already. Rock should have a gimmick, and lets say it starts with getting the same 20% boost to accuracy to all it's rock type moves when it's actually being used by a rock type - similar to how Ice was treated. Now add on another inherent quality where they mirror poison types or electric - they not only negate stealth rock but absorb any and all stacks of it on the field. And you might be thinking - well just predict it and destroy them with something like low kick or any common move other mons spalsh into for coverage... if they enter the field and absorb stealth rocks they also get the effect of solid rock for that 1 turn only (this doesn't replace their ability). Everything else you leave the same. Normal really only needs more moves that give it the potential to super effective hit different types while still being normal type moves to give it some bite - kind of like Freeze-Dry (you'd have to be very careful about how many of these normal type stab moves there are and what base power they have). Otherwise it's fine because have the most variety should elevate them, should. Bug and poison I'm really not sure about - they need the most help. Psychic isn't oppressive anymore because bug's rep was saved... only to make dark type in the next generation and they still had the worse mons per capita in terms of stat caps because they've been the glorified teaching tool for evolution while ironically not changing much as they did evolve. Poison is kind of funny because it's best move is learned by just about everything, so I'd change it so only poison types that use toxic can badly poison the target using that move. Then give it a bunch of really good resistances at either x4 or a wide spread of x2 - maybe taking some away from steel. It should be the more long-game kind of type even compared to steal - a somewhat fitting alternative for certain niches and outright countered by it's shiny contemporary due to it's immunity.
they should just make more weaviles
I remember the tier list of the 1970s on line the normal bird dragon and earth types crushed the bugs
Things have changed in the 5 decades since!
41:05
Accelerock has 100% accuracy
So does rock type Judgment. Both moves are only learned by 1 mon though, so it's difficult to argue that it's a broadly applicable counterargument
Ya got me.
I would like to see a tier list for in-game, not with the best attacks counted for, but simply the best type matchups against gym leaders and elite 4. Which game? Your call, but it could be a whole series, or just a big video like this
I think that might be impossible to do for the series as a whole, but maybe for a single game? Maybe BD/SP?
@@ImportedCheese that would be pretty cool. Just seeing these kinds of "more scientific" tier lists would be very interesting
I'll take top of c tear. Poison ain't great but I still love it
Advantage for normal type: Ghost type immunity (Poltergeist doesn't hits a normal type), STAB Boomburst
Disadvantages: Normal attacks doesn't hits ghost types (Unless you have Scrappy), Fighting types DESTROYS him.
Normal will be super effective against Fairy in gen 10!!!!!!!!
Ice is terrible, it's my favorite one. It's one of two typings that makes steel worse when paired together, other one being rock.
On another note why did they give hail nothing? Rain and Sun boost water and fire moves respectively, Sand boosts rock types Sp.def and hail gets...? Listen, if they're gonna keep a glass cannon typing in a game where Steel continues to exist they can at least make Hail give Ice types a 1.5x Sp.ATK buff to make it the offensive version of sand.
Oh and make an ice type mon with tinted lens, for funsies.
Maybe they could make hail slow all non-ice types?
But...that might actually make Ice not the worst, so they can't do that.
Been a bit since I watched one of your videos, just haven't been on a Pokemon kick lately.... god you are funny. I forgot how much I like hearing you just make jokes and talk and stuff
Ahhh what a compliment! Thank you!
Because Garchomp and Landorus-T exist, I don't personally think I could rate Ice below B. Just on the countering those two mons
The amount of puns in this video is Godly.
I'm glad you enjoyed!
There were a lot of takes...
The changes I want to see to the type chart:
Steel weak to Psychic
Fairy weak to Bug
Water weak to Poison
Ice resists Dragon
I'd also like Ghost resists Fairy, just so Ghost/Dark has no weaknesses again, but Ghost doesn't really need a buff.
ghost is too good already
Grass resists Rock and Fairy
Grass is no longer weak to and resists Ice and Flying
Poison strong against and resists Water
Bug being neutral to Ghost and Fairy
Bug resists both Psychic and Dark
Bug is no longer weak to (although is still resisted by) to Fire and Rock, but is now weak to Fairy
Ice now resists Water, itself, Dragon, Flying and Ground
Rock is weak to Ice
Ghost strong against and resists Fairy
Ice did get a few buffs in s/v, but it's still not the cream of the crop. Still, it's my favorite type and I always have at least one ice type in the party 🥰
Turns out aurora veil is pretty good!
If not for that fact that it’s weaknesses are common and powerful, people would complain about steel’s power
Only thing I disagree with is psychic. It should be up in A as it bodies fighting types hard and it learns the most coverage moves. No, seriously, psychic types can use nearly every single type in the game. Not many use rock moves, but most of the others can be used.
wuh, what is the source on these magic psychic types that can use all types?!
For all the bad rock type combinations, dont forget the classic rock/ground as well
butbut R H Y D O N
@@ImportedCheese
Rhydon this 4X water and grass weakness😎
I'd place Fairy above steel, we could argue between old steel and modern fairy but any gen with both I'd rather be fairy. Steel is great but losing resistances to ghost and dark really allowed things that used to be hard stopped by steel to now do good damage to them, Fire and ground are super common in battle (steel's strength is a big part of them being common, but still), and steel while amazing defensively tends to be a poor stab (worth it for the defensive typing, but still). Fairy's weaknesses on the other hand are irrelevant types offensively (only bullet punch scizor is notable) causing teams to have to awkwardly include one just for fairy types rather than simply be a good offensive types teams include like fire and ground. Fairy also doubles as one of the best stab types for attacks. We truly live in Crocker's nightmare. Fairy also singlehandedly killed dragon spam, its resistances while not as crazy as steel are still incredible and is why close combat after gen 5 isnt as spamable as before and now its realistically your only answer to dark, speaking of which-
I'd put dark higher in S if we are talking gen 6+, if we are talking about earlier then Id probably rank it similar to you. While Fairy becoming a new counter for it hurt, the sharp decline in the fighting type fairy caused alongside steel losing its resistance to dark changed the whole game for this type that was niche pre-gen 6. The type is huge for offensive pokemon as it allows them to absolutely shred everything besides fairy. It also means stab on two incredible moves: knock off and sucker punch, as well as pursuit pre-dexit. This video was before gen 9 so you did not yet see the ruined treasures show the absolute power of dark (at least the offensive ones) but even before gen 9 the rise of Bisharp who while steel wasn't really taking any hits due to its base 65 hp and weavile who happily spammed knock off should be sufficient evidence of the pure power the dark typing provides to offensive pokemon. Its not good but not bad defensively, just middle of the road. Its only bad weakness is fairy but psychic immunity is sometimes nice but whats really cool is that both of its resistances to ghost and dark are great given how powerful those types are offensively.
Dragon is honestly very mid, Id immediately place it in B just for nice defensive utility, type has lost all offensive presence. Gens 4-5 we place it in s tier for sure, gen 3 maybe S, maybe high A. Before gen 3 the type is mostly liability for dragonite (ice was really common offensively) (dragonite would've been amongst the best in the game as a normal type which is funny) and nice for kingdra but it lacks notable dragon stab so its just a nice defensive thing. After gen 5 though we are for sure b at this highest. The rise in fairies absolutely demolished dragons, the type is no longer good offensively as its in a sense a glorified normal type not really hitting foes for super effective damage while you invite the best defensive types, fairy and steel, to come in easily where they'll happily take advantage of your outrage locked/-2 (draco meteor) state to place hazards or set up, and I know you're not running dragon claw or pulse they don't cut it, you're for sure running outrage and draco meteor.
I'd consider electric in S but I think I'd ultimately agree to the A placement.
Fighting would be b tier, dealing with the fairies is really hard for them. Also doesn't help defensively. The type doesn't really help a a pokemon anymore, the fighting type mayhem in gen 5 was pretty brief given it only lasted a single gen where they were great, now conkledurr is sometimes good and urshifu is silly but otherwise its not that cool anymore.
Ghost S easy gens 6+, this type is pretty much just upsides not really downsides. Incredible stab that no one can deal with (Dark types are typically frail since the type isnt a common defensive one + focus blast/fairy coverage for many ghost types and lol normal), dark weakness is rough but its nice to only have one type and your own types as a weakness, and two whole immunities. Pursuit hurts but even with pursuit I would put ghost in S and post-dexit the type just randomly got an insane buff it didn't need. The only thing really holding back ghost types as a whole from going absolutely crazy is noticeable lack of great splashable stab with special attackers depending upon shadow ball (80 base power is workable, but the competition is things like ice beam, the 80 base power is noticeably weaker) while physical attackers are often left in the dust but this problem is becoming increasingly irrelevant as gamefreak keeps giving their shiny new ghost type toys crazy new moves including but not limited to: astral barrage, last respects, and rage fist.
I agree with grass but I wouldn't even bother mention weakened by weather, most of the grass types you'll see arent really there to take advantage of the sun but to leverage the resistances you mentioned and their nice status moves, so they arent hurt anymore by hail or sandstorm than other types while they actually love rain probably more than sun due to it helping deal with their most common weakness, fire, especially ferrothorn making ferrothron a common pick for rain teams in gen 5.
I'd agree that Fairy would be better than Steel except....steel beats fairy lmao
@ImportedCheese If only steel wasn't resisted by water and itself, and the only other types it hit super weren't notorious for being awful with a ton of weaknesses (ice and rock) then maybe steel would actually be a relevant weakness plenty of dual type steel types don't even opt to run a steel type, instead opting for whatever their other type is for stab even after fairy's introduction.
It saddens me that Bug got the short end of the stick when you consider Pokemon exists kin the first place because of bug catching. I think to start with they should buff Bug types by Steel no longer resisting them because they can be small and get into the gaps of armor, and because Steel underestimates them
just make bug beat fairy
@ImportedCheese Given the weaknesses Fairy has were for poor offensive types, making it resist Bug instead seems to just confirm the game developers hate the type
In competitive there are hardly any Ice Types banned. Even the Pokemon Gamefreak intended to be broken in Kyurem and Black Kyurem were unbanned in Smogon formats. It took like 3 Generation until the Black form got banned. Another Pokemon that got banned is Darmanitan because Gamefreak had big brain idea to give it a free choice band. That means for the longest, the only banned Ice Type in Smogon was Arceus Ice and if you want to count it Greninja in Generation 6 when using an Ice Move.
I think Bug got so many Pokemon that resist it because U-Turn is such a powerful move that gives amazing momentum. There is no Pokemon that's immun to it or can stop it.
You forgot to add resistance to Knock Off to Dark Types. That is a selling point since it got buffed in Gen 6.
Btw, did you just spoil a new form from Legend Arceus? :(
You missed Kyurem White. That thing has always been banned.
Smack down is a rock physical move with perfect accuracy, but it's only 50 BP
50 bp is more than 45 attack, at least
In depth in game teir list yes
Perhaps someday...no promises!
There is actually a AAAA battery! Ironically, however, A-series batteries get smaller with more A's, so you might be better off just giving Electric type a AA anyways.
I give Electric type a single A, then!