THE DARK KNIGHT | MOVIE REVIEW
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- See Reaction Here: • THE DARK KNIGHT | MOVI...
First time reviewing The Dark Knight.
Full Reaction Here:
/ diegesischad
Maple's Instagram:
/ mapledivine
The Dark Knight is a 2008 superhero film directed, co-produced, and co-written by Christopher Nolan. Based on the DC Comics character Batman, the film is the second installment of Nolan's The Dark Knight Trilogy and a sequel to 2005's Batman Begins, starring Christian Bale and supported by Michael Caine, Heath Ledger, Gary Oldman, Aaron Eckhart, Maggie Gyllenhaal, and Morgan Freeman. In the film, Bruce Wayne / Batman (Bale), Police Lieutenant James Gordon (Oldman) and District Attorney Harvey Dent (Eckhart) form an alliance to dismantle organized crime in Gotham City, but are menaced by an anarchistic mastermind known as the Joker (Ledger), who seeks to undermine Batman's influence and throw the city into chaos.
0:00 Intro
01:58 Movie Discussion
28:17 Community
38:13 Closing Thoughts
#Batman #DC #Review - Розваги
"He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector, a Dark Knight." One of the top lines uttered in a superhero movie!
In any movie in general!
That whole speech gets an standing ovation.
RIP Heath Ledger (April 4, 1979 - January 22, 2008), aged 28
You will always be remembered as a legend.
I liked when Maple was contrasting the Heath Ledger and Joaquin Phoenix Jokers. Was there a Joker in the Tim Burton films or the old corny TV series or that Gotham TV series? It would be great to see Maple comparing all the Jokers against each other. Maybe even including the comic book Jokers.
To me this Jokers multiple stories is a call back to The Killing Joke when he states “Sometimes I remember it one way and sometimes I remember it another…If I’m gonna have a past then I prefer it be multiple choice”
I thought that part of this film was genius!
After all, whatever The Joker's real backstory is, yes, I'm sure there's probably trauma because no one gets scars like that without it! Even if he did do it to himself because he's just crazy, that's still trauma.
But the fact that he was shown telling different people different stories about how he got it, letting the audience know that probably neither story was real, was great!
So much better than the "well actually, he was just a poor neuroatypical guy that the world victimized" stuff in the 2019 The Joker.
Also I think all his stories match who he's talking too. He tries to fit his stories to affect who he's talking too. Like Rachel he brings up having a wife etc
@@TomTomson81 Fair point. I like that interpretation better than when it just seemed like a misunderstood white guy grievance tale.
"You have nothing, nothing to threaten me with. Nothing to do with all your strength"
This is my most favorite line in the movie. Not just because of the way Heath delivered it but because what the Joker said is so true, try to imagine how frustrated Batman must have felt knowing he was physically stronger and was beating him to a pulp but still could not be able to extract info about Rachel and Dent's where about, meaning the Joker could have killed those two whenever he wanted and Batman cant do shit about it. The Joker only gave him the location because it was part of the plan, the plan to turn Dent into one of them, "a freak".
The movie kinda plays on the war on terror. Batman is the us military, the largest most powerful force of the planet, but struggles against rag tag terrorists using makeshift explosives. All these tanks and nukes mean nothing to a suicide bomber willing to die anyway. Nothing to do with all your strength.
Not to mention the unlimited phone surveillance and torture.
Theres even the theory that the joker is a crazed iraq war veteran back for revenge after his truckload of soldiers got blown up.
At first thought, I said "how in the hell did Joker know Dent was going to get half of his face soaked in gasoline and then be just close enough to the blast to get burned on that side?" But then i realized that even if he stayed clear of any damage, Rachel's death alone would've turned him into a villain.
@@cpob2013 that's a fair analogy, because Batman does come out on top in the end...but at tremendous costs. We did dismantle Al Qaeda, kill UBL, and topple a regime, but at ridiculously high costs. Not justifiable ones either. At least not the way that we did it.
Speaking of lighting. A lot of people don’t pick up on this, but when Harvey is interrogating the guy with Rachel’s name tag. When he starts to flip the coin. The left side of his face is covered with shadows. Foreshadowing two face, and the scene showcases his 2nd personality being his darker one.
That's kind of the point of Joker. There IS no definitive "origin" for him NOR is there supposed to be a "sympathetic" side. He's meant to be a living embodiment of chaos & evil.
This. 👆🏼
OR:
It is just his way to live. A quote from a important animated batman movie: "if i have to have a past, i prefer it to be multiple choice"
Killing Joke gives him a "sympathetic side" and it's no less Joker than any of the other good interpretations.
I smoke weed everyday so I decided to make my habit into something productive so now i smoke weed on my UA-cam channel xD
@Seven Hunnid AWESOME!
20:30: There is no intention of covering that Batman killed Harvy. Joker was right: In order to save the city, he has to break his only rule and kill. Is exactly what he did, kill Harvey in order to save the city. Is not a plot hole, is intentional. It shows that one way or another, Joker wins. Either he breaks Harvey and the entire city loses his hope; or he break Batman's moral code. And that's when Batman stop been a hero, and starts to been a Dark Knight. A hero has a moral code and stick to it, like Captain America. A Dark Knight is more inmoral, he can bend his own rules if he thinks is best for everyone. That's was the movie is telling us.
21:22 They already establish that the cape slow down the fall in the scene where he saves Rachel.
21:45 The deaths in Nolan films are very non explicit because that way it can keep the PG-13. There is no blood, dismemberments, etc. In a lot of Nolan movies they shoot people and there is no blood (The Batman Trilogy, Tenet, Inception...) most of the time (I know there are exceptions, but is almos with every shooting in the actions scenes). Again, is intentional, but in this case I agree is in detriment of the product. They tried to keep it very low profile in regard of explicit violence, maybe to please the censors, or maybe is was just a conscious decision by Nolan itself, who knows.
An absolute masterpiece of filmmaking and a very well done film. Still my favorite Batman film.
It's actually the best superhero movie of all time. The best Batman film however is Batman begins to me.
@@SyedSaifAbbasNaqvi Cool
@@EpictasticJoshuaYT for me it will always be Batman mask of phatasam. In my opinion it is even more great origin story than Batman begins. You get see his suffering and impact of being Batman is causing to Bruce Wayne.
I can't deny the batman fight scenes . He looks like the moron from my street wearing halloween costume and asking me to take him seriously.
@@SyedSaifAbbasNaqvi I respect your opinion. It's better than Batman and Robin. In seriousness The best Batman movie is the Batman 2022.
20:20 "Batman basically killed him (Harvey Dent)"
Yes. Exactly. That's the point. The joker "won". Joker forced Batman to break his one rule (he doesn't kill). Batman DID kill Dent. That's not an oversight of the writers, that was the entire point of that scene. Everything in the move was building up to it. Dent's death represents the death of "Gotham's soul" because both of the city's heroes were corrupted in one way or another. That's a big reason why Batman insisted that Gordan should blame Batman for everything Dent did, because Batman blamed himself for Dent's death. I think he wanted to punish himself this way.
I wish the dark knight rises explained this more also. That’s why Bruce was so down for 8 years because along with Rachel and amongst other things, yes he indeed did killed Harvey Dent who he admired a lot.
He didn’t kill Dent. He tackled Dent to save the kid’s life, and Dent died in the process. There’s a difference.
He also killed Ra's Al Ghul in the first movie. In fact Ra's Al Ghul's last words were "You've learned to do what is necessary" satisfied that his student has learned the lesson. What I've come to understand is that Nolan's Batman will kill if he deems the situation unsalvagable and the loophole he uses for it is "I'm not going to kill you but I'm not going to save you either" and we do see that he can choose to save people when he wants to, like the joker in this movie and Ra's in the 1st act of begins.
@@kamtheman106 Of course, it was a completely justified act of self-defense, actually not SELF-defense, but even more heroic, the defense of innocent victims, in this case, the young son of Gordon. Any cop would be justified in blasting Dent away with lethal force, let alone assault. In fact, I'm 99% sure in whatever section of the US "Gotham" exists in, even a civilian would be legally justified to use lethal force against a madman pointing a gun at a child. Batman isn't a murderer. He's a hero.
...but, he DID kill Dent, one way or another. The Joker orchestrated a scenario in which he had to make a choice: either kill Dent or Dent would kill a child. Batman only has one rule: he doesn't kill. He will break every law in existence, if he believes it is justified for the greater good, including spying on a whole city & torturing mobsters for information. Nevertheless, he has vowed to never cross that line for any reason.
When he saved Gordon's son, he did push Dent off of a building to his death. Even if its unfair, Batman blames himself. He thinks "I killed Harvey Dent, the white knight of Gotham, Gotham's true hero, it's only hope for peace & order." He holds himself responsible for the evil Dent & the Joker committed. He failed to prevent it.
Ra's (who Bruce knew as Ducard) was a member of the league of shadows who was committed to the plan to invade Gotham & slaughter the population. These people were extremely dangerous, well trained terrorists sworn to destroy his home. In spite of that, Bruce saved Ducard's life, going to great lengths to grab him before he fell off the mountain. I think he later realized that saving Ducard almost killed thousands of people. He saved him once. He didn't have to, but he did. Ra's already received mercy from Bruce once. This time, Bruce won't extend his hand out to help him. Ra's broke the controls to the train, Bruce flew away. Bruce didn't kill him. He killed himself.
About Alfred burning the letter; Bruce makes that decision by saying Harvey shouldn't know that Rachel was going to wait for Bruce. He's basicly saying the rejected one shouldn't know and Alfred simply does what he says by taking back the letter.
My favorite example of Joker's BS about not having plans is the ferry scene. When he's explaining the "game" over the PA, there's the establishing shot of the boats on the water, from the building where Joker is. And you see over his shoulder that he's literally holding a script. Like, this guy has to plan things to such a degree that he wouldn't even improvise how he'd describe the situation, because he cares so much about the theatrics.
Must have learned about theatricality from his time in the LoS
Gambol's death scene doesn't ever get talked about...he somehow dies from getting the Joker smile and it makes me laugh every time 😆
I think the Joker's point is that he is merely a "counter-schemer." He wants to show that people have expectations and plans for how the world is supposed to play out and we simply cannot trust those plans. So, yes, he clearly has schemes, but his real aim to use people's plans against them.
And also Joker's main purpose is to see the hero fall. He wants to bring him down to his level. And I do believe that he wouldn't know what to do if he ever achieved that.
@@BirdBrain0815 Good call!
Heath earned that Oscar.
This film and Captain America winter soldier are 2 Superhero films that u can just watch over and over and never get bored of.
For me it’s this and Watchmen that never get old.
MCU is good but I got massive Marvel burnout after Civil War and haven’t gone back since.
@@Rian-zf7ye I get it alot of people are starting to feel that way about Marvel
To me personally my favorite Superhero movies are the ones that are more grounded
@@Rian-zf7ye Watchmen’s okay but it’s nowhere near as good as the graphic novel in my opinion. It just doesn’t go into anywhere near as much depth.
Technically, the ground killed Harvey...that's how Batman stays "clean." Like Obi-Wan said, "Many of the truths we cling to, depend greatly on our own point of view."
Haha I didn't kill him. I shot him. The bullets and the fall killed him
And don't forget when Qui-Gon said, "It wasn't your fault. It was you FATHER'S fault." Wait what
Ground: I didn't kill him. His injury killed him!
Injury: I didn't kill him. His mortal biology killed him!
Human biology: I don't kill people. I just don't make them live forever!
Batman stays clean either way, because he didn't attack Harvey with the intention of killing him. Batman wanted to save Gordon's son and apprehend Harvey, the fact that Harvey died was unintentional.
@@FuckUA-camAndGoogle exactly, it kinds reminds me more of the death of Rahs al ghul ,I won't kill you but i won't have to save you
I’ve always had issues with people sympathizing with the Joker… he is not meant to be a serious treatise on the state of mental health, he’s a murder clown. He’s there to frustrate, assault, and psychologically torture Batman. In the comics, he’s responsible for the beating and death of one Robin (Jason Todd), the literal gun to head murder of James Gordon’s second wife (Sarah Essen), and the paralyzing of his daughter, Barbara. He’s skinned people alive, he’s gassed kindergarten classes, he’s poisoned reservoirs, he is evil. Even in this movie, the opening scene is him robbing a bank and convincing other criminals to kill each other until only he and the bus driver are left… then kills him. There comes a point where having a disturbed past and mental health issues, diagnosed or otherwise, cannot excuse actions and Joker crosses that line multiple times in this movie alone. Someone who rigs two ferries full of people, innocent or not, and threatens to blow them all up if they don’t play a game isn’t someone I can say is misunderstood and has fallen through society’s cracks. This is a terrorist in clown makeup.
lol that's a great point. It's a tad frustrating when people idolize the Joker. Granted, villains are often the most captivating characters in stories and the Joker is one hell of a dynamic, charismatic figure. He's legitimately my favorite part of the film. He steals every scene. So I completely understand the allure. It's more-so emotions dictating that affiliation rather than common sense or logic. That said, if this was a real life serial killer, I highly doubt any of these people would unironically advocate said criminal's manifesto.
Lol well... Most of them. With 7+ billion people, there are more than a few that are contrary simply for the sake of going against popular opinion. Even if that means arguing in the defense of truly reprehensible crimes. But I suppose we just have to pick our battles.
@@bradleymay5350 agreed that he’s hands down the best part of this movie, and most adaptions of Batman, I just don’t like him being painted as a sympathetic character.
And Ted Bundy got married on death row for the inhuman things he did. Charisma will get you far in life, apparently.
@@bradleymay5350 Ted Bundy and Charles Mason bruv?! They literally became superstars in death row!
couldn't agree with you more. The baby killer Vader is absolved of his crimes and is accepted by the force while his son Luke and Obi Wan are turned into cowardly milquetoast jedi traitors. I never saw the need to watch Phoenix's Joker. I don't need evil humanized. The reason dragons exist is that man needs to be taught just how hard he must strive...sometimes to contain or destroy evil. Not sympathize with it.
You’re confusing “sympathizing” with folks simply understanding Joker’s mind-view did have some validity in it. People use their morality to be shitty to others every damn day, hence the “bad joke”. While Joker was indeed a terrorist, I bet you would agree he did make some valid points about society.
Loved this movie...the line that gets me every time "He is the hero the city deserves, but not the one it needs right now."
If you actually follow the movies closely, you will note that he actually does put his money to good use helping ppl, and fixing issues. Pretty much all the free services to help ppl(orphanages, cheap transportation, etc), comes from Wayne Enterprises. He does continue his father's work on the side. He's just trying to make sure his money gets a chance to fix things, but taking out the extreme criminal elements.
never fathomed the "batman burning down the forest" thing. very interesting. thank you for saying it.
I like the question about Jaoquin Phoenix-Joker. :)
I personally would be worried. Because, even though Joaquin's portrayal of the Joker is artful and well done, it's essentially an origin story and it lacks the buildup or element or backstory that can prove that Joker is a real threat for Batman. His insecurities and weaknesses can still very easily be predicted and manipulated at this stage.
I feel like a second movie (showing this Joker's rise to power and criminal renown) needs to happen first. Right now, Phoenix's Joker is like the bullied kid at school, fighting back. The bitten dog. The underdog. This Joker still needs a bit of Ledger's Joker to work. (Not from an acting perspective. But from a character perspective. Ledger's Joker is near-invulnerable. Joaquin's is VERY vulnerable. But it could become more dangerous and unhinged with more time and backstory).
Yeah totally agrer
The climax is simple but personal. It's not meant to be the big elaborate plot, we JUST had that with the joker. Two-face was meant to confront Batman on a purely personal level.
The Dark Knight is a movie about Batman making a whole lot of bad decisions. The Dark Knight Rises is about addressing the fallout from those mistakes.
This had some of the best cgi I've ever seen.
From the truck replacement on the street when Batman is chasing Joker, to the Two Face cgi.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching BOTH Chad and Mabel discuss this movie. I dinged Chad pretty severely in his discussion of Infinity War (q.v.) for his (in my opinion) inappropriate hilarity in the face of her rage and sorrow. But here, both participants did an excellent job, and were a pleasure to watch and hear. Thank you for sharing this with us!
Maples hair looking Rapunzel as f*ck this week 👌🏼
Batman killed Harvey because he had no choice. Joker told him "I'm gonna make you break your one rule" and he succeeded.
Batman's new armor has Kevlar so he's bulletproof, yes. But the reason he doesn't die when he falls is because his cape cushions him somewhat - same reason why Batman doesn't die when he saves Rachel. Also, regarding 32:00 I actually like how he plays Bruce Wayne - as if Bruce is his mask and Batman is his real persona. He doesn't "play" Bruce in public often enough for him to know how to BE Bruce.
Your fist fight thing reminds me of Civil War a lot actually. Zemo is just a man. An ordinary man with some military experience. But he was perhaps the 2nd most effective villain behind Thanos against the Avengers as a whole. He won.
Maple should see Heath Ledger in more customary roles to appreciate the effect his acting in this had on viewers accustomed to his rom-coms. Maybe "10 Things I Hate About You" and "A Knight's Tale."
Wow...you guys really play it like Bale was a chump. Ledger outshone everybody in this and imo he's the greatest Joker still. But i think a big part of the strengths and weakness of everybody in this is the script. Joker gets super cool setups, impossible foresight and scheming and everyone feels almost lame next to him, even Batman. Caine, Oldman and Bale are all great actors though.
This film was the empire strikes back of the Batman trilogy. Ledger gave a great performance but he was walking on the foundation that Bale and the others actors and creators already established. Actually let’s go back to Batman begins did you know Nolan approached Ledger about being Batman but he turned him down because he didn’t understood the tone. He was so on board for being the joker because of the tone of Begins. Christian Bale is world class last time I watched TDK I paid attention to his performance and I say wow he just as great and made Ledger look really good in those face to face scenes. Yes Ledger did his thing but not for one second do I think he blew everyone out the water far as acting I just think his character was written to be the most entertaining as the joker should be.
@@jayb.2649 I fail to understand till today how people don't acknowledge the powerful performances of the rest of the cast Bale, Cain , Oldman and especially Eckhart who was an equally powerfully acted villain to the joker. People love to repeat the famous lines in the movie majority of which come from other than joker but don't seem to understand that they only sound that good because of the delivery by these great actors. To me the final interaction between Dent and Gordon were some of the best acting in the movie, you can get rid James newton Howards score in that scene and it would still be intense and hard pounding simply because of there acting.
Saw it in the cinema when it came out, people were crying, in shock and applauding at the end. Literally one of the greatest films ever made. R.I.P Heath Ledger
Such a masterclass in responsibility and sacrifice.
i personally think the bombs on the boat was twitched. so if a boat chose to blow up the other one. it would blow up theirs. the jocker was right. batman did kill in the end.
The scene after Rachel's death, between Alfred and Bruce, is an exact mirror of the scene from Batman Begins, where young Bruce tells Alfred that he feels responsible for his parents' deaths.
Re: Dwelling on it and letting you FEEL the bad..."
Wagner's Opera's (such as Die Walkure, source of The Ride of the Valkyries,) sought to do that, compared to earlier works. A goal was to force the audience to see themselves and their world within that of the opera. Earlier opera didn't really do that at all.
Which reminds me...
The plot of The Dark Knight reminds me a little of that of Die Walkure, in that "If anyone saw this, everything would be undone."
There is a similar story at the heart of Die Walkure. Check it out.
Funny to hear you mention choruses in ancient Greek plays. Wagner sought to recreate that in a manner of speaking by having the orchestra itself take the role of the chorus, and comment, musically, ON the action of the work.
My god, I just remembered yet another similarity: bruce claims, erroneously, that harvey locked up all those criminals "without wearing a mask," which is simply not true because without batman's help, it wouldn't have happened. Extremely similar plot points feature in Die Walkure as well, where Wotan, chief of the gods, claims that Siegmund, his son and "unwitting" agent, is doing things (i.e, Wotan's bidding,) freely of his own will, which he in fact is not, everything siegmund does was set up and controlled by Wotan.
Check out Die Walkure it's amazing.
You mention the Jokers mannerisms, particularly the lip licking. Involuntary lip licking/lip smacking is a known side effect of prolonged use of certain first generation antipsychotic medications. This may be viewed as a subtle hint at a long mental health condition. Heath Ledger did extensive background reading into the character and mental health conditions when preparing for the role which likely contributed to this movement.
One of my favorite things about the Joker is that he is an enigma. His past is a mystery and he is unpredictable.
The best movie ever. Still reaches to our heart in these days. Thanks for your reviewing!
Everyone is just "one bad day" away from being him (J).
He's proven right by Dent, but wrong by the people in the ships.
In longer stories where he returns multiple times, his target becomes Batman, causing him bad days, like with killing Robin, to cause Batman to cross the line as well.
Great reaction from Maple per usuall!
Just like all of seems as she’s captivated by Heath Ledger performances as the Joker. I didn’t watch this film until I was 16 in 2011 when I started watching more serious time movies. I was so captivated by his performance and I was so let down when my dad told me he died. I definitely wanted more of this Joker.
When you and Maple discussed the nature of people who were deciding the fate of the ferries, it sparked in me the example made in the movie The Mist. I don't know if you've done that movie yet, but if not, I think it would be a good movie to react to and analyze. It really delves into human nature and how it functions in times of extreme duress. What do you think?
Yeah I think you're right
I like Maple
I like you
@@MapleDivine This just made my day🙏
Well, well... what a nice afternoon treat. See you there!
I watched with my friend after she already saw it and I was saying I didn’t like this Rachel in this movie and boom she was gone haha classic, thanks again that was fun reaction and that ending is so powerful with Gordon talking to his son ,
I subscribe to the theory that The Joker slipped up when he was speaking to Harvey and revealed his true origin. _"or a truckload of solders gets blown up, nobody panics because it's all a part of the plan."_ Remember this came out in 2008 and the War on Terror was in full swing. The Joker being a soldier who was involved in an IED attack and watching all his friends die and getting these smiley face scars, then getting home and the government doesn't care, the people don't care because the war is becoming unpopular, could easily go mad and decide to strike back. That would give him knowledge of strategy, weapons and tactics, explosives and ordnance, and be able to keep calm under fire. It would also supply him with a morbid singularity black sense of humor.
The bank was actually the old city post office in Chicago, the bank vault was in the Federal Reserve in Chicago. Right on the same street, (LaSalle), when Joker takes on Batman when is is on the Batbike.
I Really Do Wish We Got More Of This Joker And Two Face
Such Great Takes On These Villains...But That Chapter Is Closed 🙏🏾
It was always brought up that Joker was supposed to have an integral role in The Dark Knight Rises, but with Heath Ledger passing, Christopher Nolan felt it was best not to include the Joker.
HEads up Chad. Banks do have physical money in them. Banks have to keep a certain amount of physical money on hand incase customers come in and ask for their money. Which can be called a run on a bank (see the financial crash of 2008). Plus, where do you think they get the money to put in the ATM. Plus loads of business make drop box deposits whic hhave to be counted and verified.
I didnt. Say they don't have any. They just have less than they can access cause everything's gone digital
I love how the Joker gets irritated when Gambol calls him crazy, so later when he tells Gambol the story about his dad he emphasizes the word, "cr-AYYY-zier than usual..."
I really love this Joker, it really feels like he wrote the entire movie, from scene 1 to the last ^^ but he clearly has a goal, he's angry at society and try to break everyone, and every plan he makes during the movie is a brilliant plan, but it feels he made it personal and tries to hide it behind his madness while pretending he is chaos, but since he has a goal it's contradictory, I like it, but it's more something I'd see from the villain *Anarky* for example
The Joker from the comics would do this, but for no real reasons except to play with the bat, (because he knows the Bat is untouchable and despite all the horrible things he might do to him, the Batman will always stay the Batman), and he reinvents himself every time, for every plan he makes in the movie, the comics Joker would make it for different reasons each time. I'm not very clear but what I mean is that Ledger's Joker has a masterplan, and endgame, it doesn't scream chaos that much ^^ but I love him :)
I think I still prefer versions of the Joker that are like Nicholson's, in overall, even if I love the Dark Knight Trilogy and The Batman, but they are very realistic, and I prefer the more comic-booky versions, that can be really scary, funny grandiose, can do such good storylines like this, not as grounded but still relatable, basically like the 92 Animated Series :)
It's almost a cliché to say it today, but the Dark Knight is my favourite big screen comic book adaptation. Can't deny I'm not a huge fan of comic book movies more generally. However, being a Batman fan all the way back to the Animated Series, which I watched as a child before school in the mornings, the Dark Knight just hits every note. I love the Frank Miller, Jeph Loeb and Alan Moore (Killing Joke) vibes to it all.
Batman is the man who suffered tragedy in the darkness and became darkness to try to stop tragedies.
Joker is the man who suffered tragedy in the darkness and became darkness to spread tragedy. Joker is not really chaotic, he's methodically about inflicting tragedy on others.
The Joker is so good at scheming that he can make his elaborate plans seem random and chaotic to everyone else. He’s a sane person who knows how to appear insane, to confuse and terrify people.
@@TheSpectacularSpiderPunk
People forget that the first Joker to ever appear in comics was a mastermind.
"Well, and even just his smallest mannerisms, like licking his lips all the time..." You absolutely HAVE to watch the 1979 Tom Waits interview (ua-cam.com/video/uW0-qJPbHDA/v-deo.html starting at 1:36). It aired in Australia, which is where Heath Ledger grew up, and I'm convinced Heath saw it and based the Joker's voice and some of his physicality on it. It's just so spot on!
The similarity is uncanny.
Heath Ledger, A Knights Tale. Its a must see.
Never thought I'd hear someone complain so passionately about Christian Bale being a mediocre actor but here we are. Sure he's not the shining light that Ledger is in this movie, nor is anyone, so that was a strange tangent. In fact, everyone is really solid in here and the movie is phenomenal, regardless of Ledger's performance being the obvious standout. I know it was probably commented on more in humor than in spite but that was weird.
Heath licked his lips a lot because the prosthetic scars sometimes would unstick. He would use his tongue to keep them in place.
It added to the character so they kept it.
Heath's headcannon for his Joker was that he used to be military. So when he talks about torture so nonchalantly is because he received training to fight against it and thus also knows how to do it.
Rachel played with both Bruce and Harvey's hearts. And she seemed almost cold towards Bruce. Like almost angry with him at some times. Like after Harvey said he was Batman. So she gets mad at Bruce, but not Harvey?
I like to look at it as we are outsiders and it’s a complicated relationship that we will never truly understand. I look at it like Ronnie and Sammi from Jersey Shore know one outside of them two understand their relationship. All we do know is they love eachother. Rachel was still a good person, who was one of the few in Gotham to fight the criminals. The scene of them playing together as children what seems to be a wealthy young girl to being a assistant attorney general in Gotham kind of all I need to know about her. Plus they didn’t make her a innocent pretty face damsel in distress love interest, that’s what I like so much about this trilogy it’s very complicating but it serves the story.
I’ll answer that… I think Rachel was frustrated with the fact that it became clear (or rather it should’ve) she moved on with Harvey. Bruce wasn’t getting it. I think any chance they had at possibly being together really died with her meeting Harvey. In her eyes, Harvey was able to do what Bruce was doing as Batman but without a mask. The irony of it all is… even with all the progress he made as DA, Dent still saw Gotham needed Batman.
Speaking of Harvey… I don’t think Rachel played with Harvey’s heart because it became clear she had chosen him. That’s what makes her death, and Dent’s subsequent transformation into Two-Face, all the more tragic.
Great discussion as usual🔥
Even though in "Joker" Joaquin Phoenix's performance was amazing and the movie was well done, it wasn't a very accurate version of the Joker character itself. Normally the Joker isn't supposed to be a sympathetic character. He's pure chaos and evil.
"Isn't supposed to be"
No, that's _your_ preferred Joker. There's a ton of ways of depicting the character and giving him a sympathetic backstory is just another way of doing that.
@@thepiousskeleton6046 You're right, I prefer a good depiction of The Joker to the cliche "actually the villain was just misunderstood" trope.
That's the kind of thing people found compelling as 16 year old emo kids!
The closest Joker to the rather sparse comic origin story is Jack Nicholson with him falling in a vat of chemicals that changes him and sends him insane which is shown in the Killing Joke graphic novel but Heath Ledgers awesome performance is amazing he is so unpredictable and just does not give a shit and has no limits or boundaries, Phoenix's performance was just as amazing,in a totally different way by being so downtrodden and beaten down by life he actually garners some sympathy until he starts murdering people and goes full Joker .
I can remember when Heath was announced as Joker people where up in arms that this pretty boy actor could pull it off and he totally pulled it off and silenced the naysayers , Heath kept licking his lips because doing the Joker voice gave him a very dry throat it made Joker seem kind of snake like and even more unsettling .
My fave scene is the interrogation scene which makes Batman realise how manic and unstoppable Joker is
My main issue with Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker is that at no time do I think he’s any sort of match for Batman.
This movie is, in my opinion, more a Christopher Nolan movie than a comic book movie.
Pretty much all of Batman's villains are criminally insane. You kind of _have_ to be to dress up like and do the wild things they all do! The T.V. series Gotham actually delved into this pretty well.
Only problem I've ever had with this movie is the lacklustre Gotham City at least compared to Batman Begins. It lacks the atmosphere of the first film and from a design standpoint it's far less interesting and unique. I know Nolan wanted to go for a "Grounded" look but it's really no excuse for a boring city when movies like The Batman 2022 created one of the most amazing and unique looking live action Gotham Cities while also being grounded. Even the Arkham games have a pretty grounded depiction of Gotham City but still make it look unique going for an old meets new 1930s look. This right here is why i prefer Begins over The Dark Knight same goes with The Batman, not to say Dark Knight is a bad movie it's 100% not adore the film but I do wish Gotham looked more interesting.
I highly recommend The Dark Knight Returns Part 1 and Part 2 two amazing animated films set in 1986 10 years after the comic Death in the Family when Joker killed Jason Todd. In this Elseworld (Comic came out before the Elseworlds stamp but it's very much set in it's own continuity ) story Batman steps down as the Caped Crusader unlike most renditions who continue defending Gotham along with hiring a new Robin Tim Drake with Jason returning as Redhood. Also recommend Mask of the Phantasm my personal favourite Batman film set in the Animated Series universe (DCAU) you don't need to watch the show to understand anything as it's an isolated story with origin flashbacks. It was also the first Batman animated film to get a theatrical release which was a big deal back in the early 1990s.
I've always felt it shows that batman is making a big difference and the mobs are loosing their hold on gotham
I'll be honest, as a non-comic book reader, I liked this Gotham City much more. It feels real, whereas the previous iterations really didn't. Especially the Scottish funeral. Yeah, it's just New York with a few liberties added (and one Lady Liberty taken away).
I totally get why you wouldn't like it, but as one of the "mainstream" fans of this movie, I totally get and appreciate why they did it this way. It takes away one of the "irritants" and lets even casuals like me focus on the relationship between the Joker and Batman. It's like Lord of the Rings taking away some of the more weird stuff to tell the main story. Sure, it's not as faithfull to the surce material, but I would argue that it is a better movie for ignoring the source material, but it's obviously a bad thing for the fans of the source.
@@hafor2846 100% respect that viewpoint. My biggest problem though is the lack of personality it just didn't look like Gotham City or come off as an interesting location. The Batman 2022 like I've mentioned does a much better job at bringing to life a modern Gotham City while still carrying over the gothic art deco architecture that city is known for. Once you remove that then it's no longer Gotham City but some generic East Coast city. Gotham is as much of a character as the Batman which is something Batman 2022 nailed. I think the consistent billboards and video display boards around the city help create the cohesive Gotham city look and feel - while still allowing it to look like somewhere you could actually live something Batman Arkham Knight does really well.
In terms of real i would argue that most renditions of Gotham are pretty realistic besides maybe Joel Schumacher's Gotham. We live on a planet with amazing cities and architectural designs if someone really wanted to they could build Burtons Gotham city its pretty much just a modern Medieval City with gothic and art deco architecture with hints of 1930s. Alot of buildings packed together along with massive skyrises and walkways connecting buildings. The city of the future gone wrong pretty much while Metropolis is the opposite the city of the future gone right.
@@Stuffthatsfunny1 Mostly taking about the architecture and how uninteresting the city looked from a creative standpoint. But 100% that's why it looks so much cleaner but even at that it a clean Gotham should still look like Gotham as it's art deco gothic architecture would've still remained. We go from Gotham City in Batman Begins to Chicago in The Dark Knight and then Pittsburgh in The Dark Knight Rises. There isnt really any continuity with Nolan's Gotham each movie it looks different lol
@@CaptainAmercia
As I said, I totally get it. I'm just saying, this Batman is so grounded in reality, I think as a casual viewer the typical Gotham chique would have been used for no reason.
Like, there's been a few pretty prominent
scenes in Hong Kong. Obviously, an idealized version of it and a 2000s version with no student riots and CCP crackdown. But still, it's a real city and it looks the part. Going back to Gotham, even a modern Gotham, would have been jarring.
It's a bit like the cuts and changes in the LotR movies. Yes, they dimnish the original works. But there is a reason for those changes and often enough completely faithfull movie adaptations fail because they are completely faithfull.
So yeah, I totally get why you would dislike this version of Gotham. I'm just providing a counterpoint explaining why so many people don't really care or even like those movies more for it. It certainly explains its broader appeal, but it's also a disappointment for a lot of actual fans.
12:55 I see your Pete Holmes reference. Nice one.
Not only does Batman seem out of place in Joker (film), the Joker does too. It’s a film that seems like a tremendously earnest Ken Loach social commentary (don’t know an American equivalent), with a few minutes of Joker tagged on at the end. Which is why ultimately I thought Joker (film) failed. I would have preferred it to be all about Arthur Fleck, or much, much more about the Joker.
I’m not tremendously knowledgeable about Joaquin Phoenix, what are the films you recommend for him? I have seen Gladiator and 8mm, can’t think of anything else.
Maple can check out Prestige and American Psycho just to see Bale acting. Probably give Terminator Salvation a miss…
You think this movie failed??? You should check it again..
@@5calambres where did I say Dark Knight failed?
@@lawrencegough i was talking about "joker". It was the most profitable r rated movie.
@@5calambres Oh OK, sorry. I believe I gave my reasons for thinking Joker a failure. And obviously I mean artistically, rather than at the box office. Failure is also relative, its not a bad film, I just didn't love it as much as I expected.
@@lawrencegough if you say a movie failed, dont expect people to become mind readers and consider it just failed in your perception. It won oscars, was a box office win ect ect... i am totally okay if you did not liked it. Tastes are different. But in this text above it really sounded like you create a false narrative to support your point.
The Batman (in the comics) only has one moral.. to save the people. As for "HOW" Batman is not supposed to have any morals. These movies give Batman more morals than he really has, but as it continues, he shows who he is. There is a reason why they call him The DARK Knight"
Humm Joker, different origin story every time he explains his origin. Sounds familiar. Love the meta reference.
This is the best movie ever.
Yes accident do happen with Batman and people have died. But he tries really hard to not do it consciously. This is best demonstrated where batman was using sonar to take out joker's henchmen and the swat team, and save hostages. He managed to diffuse that whole situation without killing anyone.
Joaquin is coming soon as Napoleon by Ridley Scott... Can hardly wait!
For more Joaquin Phoenix, watch Gladiator.
I don't understand what the Rachel hate is for? Would you genuinely want to be in a long term relationship with Batman? She has commitment issues? She literally was marrying Harvey. She kept giving Bruce signs that she didn't want to be with him. Like multiple times it was clear she was uncomfortable around Bruce when he was trying to get with her....maybe you were blinded a little? Like she's not my favorite character but it was a little harsh imo
Marvel doesn't let it's characters live in sadness???
Is Logan a joke to you?
While Logan is a Marvel character, Fox made the Logan movie, not Disney/Marvel. So it's a completely different film-making approach than the MCU, which is what I think he was talking about.
Yeah we were talking about specifically the MCU. Logan is in my top 3 for sure
I think Batman's code is he won't purposefully commit murder with thought out intention. Where he has time to plan something out. But in the moment where he has to make a split second decision to save a child, his focus is to push Harvey to save the child. And an unfortunate side effect is Harvey died.
This will be interesting.
The scene where Harvey points his gun at one of The Joker’s henchmen and flips the coin, the coin is his already a two-faced coin-- and he told the henchman that “tails” he gonna shoot, implying
killing him--Harvey was never going to kill him but scare him into talking-- despite what Batman assumed, he was basically doing what Batman had been doing the whole time interrogating thugs for information, using fear and deception to get the job done.
Need to watch The Dark Knight Rises next!!
Maple needs to see Gladiator...NOW!!!
Then she`ll see a little bit of a "Maniacal Jaoquin Phoenix"...
batman jumps far down and lands many times in these movies. falling a few floors is nothing with them wings.
The type of Villain the Joker is due to his mindset and actions is 100% A Wild Card Villain....Punchline and Pun Intended....because that is what the Joker lives for in having everything that he is as a Villain and what he does be tied into a Punchline and a Pun...The Joker = Wild Card
Little bit weird seeing these guys take shots at Christian Bale at the same time as everyone’s doing cartwheels praising Robert “😭You’re not my real dad!” Pattinson.
If you are searching for a Superhero film that has very artful cinematography, I'd suggest Ang Lee's Hulk from 2003.
Batman > Joker >>>> everybody else. Period!
Present for the review! Like a watchful protector xD
I think Joaquin Phoenix would be a really good Wolverine.
I don't agree about Rachel, on the contrary she stays out of Bruce's life because his life is toxic, she isn't toxic. It's been 3 years since she said that she'd wait for Batman to disappear to be with Bruce, from the beginning of the movie we can see that she mostly moved on, but Bruce stayed focused only on that to stay sain, that's the toxic part, and that's on him, and she didn't like it and tried to make him understand during the entire movie, in the meantime she met Harvey, who lives in the light, it was hard for her to choose, because Bruce is still her childhood friend but she made the right choice imo, plus only Bruce believed she would stay for him, it was pretty obvious for Alfred that she wouldn't, but she never agreed in the movie, that's why she wrote Bruce a letter
In Rachel's defense, the poor woman couldn't be expected to wait, potentially for the rest of her life, for Bruce to quit Batmanning. It is a little weird that she always dates her bosses at the DA's office, though. haha
Yeah but he finally came up with a plan. I just think she shoulda told him she's really not that into him and not to try and build a circumstance where they can be together
Will there be (was there) some day a reaction to the third film in the trilogy?
UPDATE: and if you plan to do more Joaquin Phoenix, I highly recommend Walk the Line!
I didn't like Alfred burning the letter in that moment.
Yeah me neither. I think the right move would be to wait. I can agree Bruce doesn't need that on his shoulders right now but it's not your place to destroy a message that was meant for him either
It took me a while to catch onto Alfred's, "Some men just want to watch the world burn" speech is that in the story. It was him and his friends that set fire to the earth. Not the bandit. It's kinda hypocritical on his part. Trying to paint this bandit like he's some out of control monster just cause he was stealing the precious stones the government was using to try and bribe the local tribes. I like the story and it's a great way to describe the Joker but I never really thought about what he was saying till recently. That being said I love the Dark Knight. It's my favorite Batman movie and Christian Bale is my favorite Batman.
I think thats the very point Alfred makes there, that bandit made them do it for him. Whatever the goal of the bandit was, piss off the local government, cause chaos, punish someone, send a message or just pure madness, he used the jewels (and didn't even keep them or use them to trade), and then the men that were sent after him to reach his goal. And you can actually see it in how the great Sir Michael Caine delivers the scene, the realization and regret in hindsight that he did this, playing into the hands of the person he hunted.
@@mrnice81 I don't really think that getting Alfred and his crew to burn down the forest was the bandits goal. I think he just hated that the local tribes were even making deals with the government. What better way to sabotage these deals than to steal the jewels and throw them away.
I don´t know why you are so messy about C.Bale is not a good actor.... Well u cant winém all...
NGL, the idea that Maple thinks it'd be normal for Batman to let Rachel die because she wouldn't date him is fucked up!
"that's kind of what their government does too." come again?
So Gladiator with Maple soon for some more Joaquin Phoenix?
3 Times in Theatres
Batman is DC not Marvel, honnest mistake i guess. 6:59
College Humor Batman for the win