You’re back! I’m so happy for you (and me as I’ll get my late night brain food back)! That would have been a huge injustice if you were not allowed back on here.
I know we have 5-6 videos on covert borderline as a suggested diagnosis, but it is so spot on, I’ve watched the videos we have 20-30 times each. I watch them almost every day. My experience with a covert B has been absolutely destroying. If we could have more lectures, I bet I’m not the only one who would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for your work
I really missed you! You have such deep understanding of human behaviour! When I listen to you, things become clear. Thank you for making these videos!
This is such an accurate description of a combo my clinical psychologist defined my ex as “a borderline with narcissistic pathology and psychopathic traits” … “a dangerous combo” he said.
My BPD ex cultivated an emotional relationship with her boss for a year, and kept lying about the nature of it, all the while, the closer she got with him, the more she devalued me. The flip outs and the picking fights got more and more severe until I was walking on eggshells all the time. I was terrified to even answer her calls, my body would shake. The moment we broke up, she was spending all of her time with him, pretty much dove right into a relationship with jinx continuing to lie about them, gaslighting the heck out of me. When I finally broke the spell of the gaslighting and told her how devastated I felt, utterly betrayed… there wasn’t an ounce of accountability. Not only was she not accountable, but she turned into quite a psychopath, enjoying torturing me with it. Telling me things like “I can’t WAIT to fuck him”, constantly telling me how much better he was than me. Yes, she intentionally TRIED to hurt me. Then blocked me everywhere when I begged her for compassion. It was the most devastating experience of my life in my 44 years.
I'm so sorry that's awful she sounds like an absolute terror and to due to that awful relationship, it makes it extremely difficult to trust again so no matter who you are with in the future you'll always be guarded because of this trauma I would start therapy it's really the only way to help yourself heal. I think for me it was the total destruction of my life my ex was enjoying it I felt like I saw my life in a movie when removed his mask but just thank god or your higher power because I actually had a child with person, they will take everything you hold dear away, and you find yourself in litigation for years total demons they are.
i’m so very sorry you went through this. I’m going thru similar. Please be sure you get proper counseling that is needed. Try to take it as a learning experience & don’t let it ruin your loving nature moving fwd
Excellent content. I have been able to make sense of the last 37 years plus in dealing with the covert cluster B. He has passed from this world now and I have escaped his family of flying monkeys with their own cluster B personalities. I am on the road to recovery. Thank you.
A brilliant insight into covert borderline. I really liked how you differentiated the personalities by examples of behavioural traits from covert narcissism and psychopath. Would like to see you both in another collaboration. Questions and answers excellent. Explanation of complex personalities was educational and fascinating.
Love these deep dives, thank you Dr. Sam Vaknin for looking deeply within yourself to help solve the mysteries of these puzzling human cognitive conditions. Very insightful and have helped me understand a very dangerous relationship I was in.
I don't mean this as a slight on you guys... But Im wondering... A Therapist seems like an ideal job for a covert narcissist? Do narcissists choose jobs deliberately in order to be in control of others.? Do you feel that some therapists are actually just disturbed themselves and are working they're issues out through they're patients? Again.. Im not implying anything here.
I have spent many yrs. working with therapist most of the time they are seeing therapist in nearby towns or hour drive kind of thing and some the real worst tell you everything about their sessions with their clients while you are in a group setting like the dayroom. I have seen only one therapist do that and I left that place never looked back.
Simply and eloquently spoken as always, really enjoy these interview style discussions. A class above in education and content presentation. Thank you as always. As we all learn we all soldier on, we win our small battles… inside and out.
My husband who fits your frighteningly accurate He is the big Senior Council, yet he has lied, cheated and stolen which took me years to catch on to since it was so contradictory to his persona. He skipped making 27 mortgage payments in my condo while I was I’ll and having 11 surgeries, and kept the rent checks also! Now I have to stay and go back to work at age 64. Arghh. “I haven’t lied to you in 19!months!” Out of 10 years. No thanks.
Sam, You really shine in here and you gave great information that I think a lot of people, myself included, needed to hear. Thanks for sharing what you know, you have some amazing information. Here, it is as if you just condensed 20 years of study into one video. I am glad you posted this. And I thank you for posting things of this nature, you have taught me so much and I appreciate it.
As a self diagnosed covert borderline, I related to this so much that I had to stop at Baskin Robbins to discuss my feelings with a cone of jamoca. Would love to dispute everything he said but...uh.....
Sounds like me. Haha. Got to love the synchronicity that as I was typing that comment, we have the quote, "The Covert Borderline is a seriously sick person." hahaha I wish I could have Prof Vaknin diagnose me, so I actually have an idea what I need to fix.
I rather let him have his grandiosity and live 🥺.it’s a sad thing to see the potential in this ppl but they are so messed up ,you don’t know how to handle them🤕🤒
This video helped me understand the very brief yet “intense” relationship that I just had with a man I strongly suspect is a covert borderline. Your other videos also help me understand myself a lot better, as a borderline myself who’s currently in therapy and very aware of my triggers. As an unaware covert borderline who’s also against therapy, I doubt he’ll ever wake up from the illusion of finding “the perfect person for him” where everything feels effortless. Your video helped me realise the whole thing was a mirage - he fell head over heels with the idea of love when he met me - not who I was as a person. And because he had that “self-sacrificial”, “superman”, “saviour complex” side that you talk about here, he wanted to be the one to “save” me, and he probably thought it’d be easy, whilst looking down on therapy. He dipped, turning ice cold from one day to the next, without even facing me. Thank you so much for your work.
Just to add to the mirage part: he became what he thought I needed/wanted, and when he realised he couldn’t hold up that image, because it didn’t fit his idea of the perfect love, he left. Goodbye, Good riddance.
Which is also why he wouldn’t even face me and broke up through text, and completely ignored my attempts at at least doing it through the phone - he had already gotten over me, because he never loved ME in the first place.
Prof. Vaknin, would you consider creating a video on people with subclinical narcissism / narcissistic styles? More specifically, while I understand NPD is not treatable, are narcissistic traits treatable in subclinical narcissists? Additionally, if someone has no diagnosable NPD but does have traits such as grandiosity, need for narcissistic supply, and some level of a false self, couldn't they benefit from some form of Cold Therapy? (let's say they do otherwise have empathy, no significant emotional dysregulation, and are not abusive). Thank you!
Siempre vino tinto 😁? Qué placer encontrar al original Profesor Sam Vaknin! Hay muchos canales que repiten tu trabajo de una manera terrible 😖 Hacen falta más trabajos tuyos en español. Muchas gracias por compartir tan claramente tu investigación y sabiduria. Saludos desde Argentina 🇦🇷 , tu sentido del humor es genial!!!
It sucks because I’ve been looking at this stuff with a borderline loved one for 10 years and I feel you are the only one actually trying to say what is actually happening. As if we can’t say what will have to actually happen for these people to get better. We can’t hide behind the curtain to fix things. Telling what actually happens is the right way.
Totally comprehendsible, thank you very much. Now I know specific word for whom and what I am. I am 43 and I reprogramming my self sense when I've was 24 years of age, first through two weeks of family treatment and right after that I've realize then that I needed go through rehabilitation usage of minnesota model with my addiction with hash and al-kuhl, mainly for hash, tree times. I've watched and learn so much through your videos. I've been 'researching' online about psychopathy, sociopathy, narcissism and bpd. Now I'm certain that I am covert bpd,and know exactly whom I am even though I know my self, still learning. I know I would stop learning and growing till my death.
Sam, I do beleive there is an element of hereditary traits,when observing families you will see the traits through out them. Like most mental health disorders that are hereditary.
I’d love to know more about your opinion of the current state of the contemporary art scene. I find the contemporary art world to be a swamp of toxic personality disorders that are praised to the highest degree - unlike most of classical art ideals that praised intelligence, craftsmanship, beauty etc. I feel that future trends in society firstly reveal themselves in the arts, although this is too tenuous to be absolutely sure off. I wonder if the unmitigated rubbish the public consumes is the taste of the masses? Or is it mostly the output of a very sick elite? Some gallerists, museum directors, cultural foundation managers etc seem quite like covert borderlines, although I assume the majority of current artists to be a bit squizoid or covert narcissists.
(1) Welcome back! (2) I'm using the search function but do you have any videos dedicated to how sexual assault victims are re-victimized by the "justice" system? As a friend of a boy who initiated a sexual relationship with his teacher, we are both wondering if there were less traumatic alternatives than the shit-show that ensued after that teacher's arrest, which included her being sentenced to 20 years in prison, and him having weekly "therapy" sessions. I'm seeing your article titled, "The Guilt of the Abused: Pathologizing the Victim," so I will keep searching your tripod site.
So Ive been trying to get answers from professionals the last couple of years, but they write me off, as if Im malingering (which I guess is a possibility). Im so glad I found your channel though, as this seems all very familiar to me. Atleast now Im more aware. Thank you!
I think people should be given the chance to choose if they are willing to suffer or risk their defenses etc in order to heal snd/or become whole. I've been through the ordeal of healing, and probably still am, and it was totally worth it, and maybe if I'd have had the possibility to do it in an organized fashion /treatment instead of doing it myself through trial and error, it would have been easier or at least faster..
I am not diagnosed as a covert borderline but I can relation to a lot of what you described. I was never serious about intermittent reinforcement.. I just leave and seek ideal love. That's me. Except for I like authority.
I like authority when I think they DESERVE that position. Are you weathy because your worked hard or because it was given to you? I love when I find a intelligent and ambitious person...so hard to match my standard. Hahaha, I really connect wit the coverbordeline.
Professor Vaknin, you often say the narc doesn’t gaslight, but the psychopath does. Does the covert borderline gaslight when he is in the primary psychopathic state? Does the psychopathic state emerge when he is confronted with intimacy?
The psychopathic self-state emerges mainly when faced with abandonment or betrayal and then he also gaslights. Covert borderlines seek intimacy. Watch the covert borderline playlist.
Do covert borderlines have a tendency to completely isolate themselves because they might be self-aware and not want to hurt anyone? (I once heard you say something along the lines of it is a good choice for cluster b’s to self-isolate so they don’t hurt others?). Is their attachment style generally avoidant, or anxious-avoidant combination? I have not heard you say anything about envy regarding covert borderlines. Are they envious, like the narcissist?
Hi, thank you both for this video. It opened my eyes up in a cathartic and helpful way. I knew mybex was diagnosed with personality disorders. He witheld what the combination is (no surprise there!) Everything that you have explained, absolutely fits and makes sense I'm determined he has no part in my life now. We live in the same road though. He's not getting a rise out of me, or any attention whatsoever. He's tried though. He's blocked from contacting me via my phone etc. This is the first time that I've done this in the last two years ( he successfully hoovered me - uh doh!) Have you had experience of people living so close post split up (from a most likely: covert borderline)? He has already tried to communicate when driving past. He's already tried to gain an upper hand in front of people. It didn't work though. I am expecting this, but also for it to fade away as time goes on. Will it just fade as he hoovers up other women?
If he is a covert borderline he will eventually just move on from you. It might be painful for you. If you don't fit their idea of this ideal live they will move on. But probably no hard feelings
@@bananafanalll6651 Oh, he was always moving on. There will be no friendship available from myself. I have utter contempt and disgust left for him. Wouldn't it be convenient for him to have another ex to add to his harem of supply for when he's lonely. No hard feelings because he was never honestly invested in a genuine relationship. He can eff off for good in my book. No pleasantries. Nothing.
This song by Tove Lo describes Covert Borderline as described by Dr. Vaknin "This Time Around" I used to take your breath away I used to make your laugh about anything I used to be your getaway Your getaway, your dream I was everything you needed You used to lean your eyes on me You used to open up and share your world You used to loose yourself in me Let the hours pass all running by so fast but now What I'm doing I don't know what I'm doing Cause I don't even feel it Bodies growing colder with the distance now And I don't even mean it Got my hands all over you, but not a sound I'm always so in love, all in Til I start going numb thinking Thought you'd make me feel it Thought that I'd be different this time around This time around
I'm definitely a covert borderline but I am real. I think I'm the most real. Im Definitely a super hero! I do always apologize. Sometimes I will apologize just to keep the peace. It's another part of my moral compass that is catered to me. I'm always on the moral high ground! It's something I'm working on. I don't judge but I think I know whats good for you. I always see your potential and not what you actually are.
Prof Vaknin, you refer to NPD and BPD frequently existing in co-morbidity, is it also possible for covert NPD and covert BPD to exist in co-morbidity? Or for the cycles of overt/collapse/covert to cycle over the course of the life of someone with both NPD and BPD? For them to move between defences dependent on self states or environmental factors?
Hi Prof. I’ve been watching your videos for several years and I found this to be one of the most insightful. Makes total sense to me. I’m just wondering how you put all this together in terms of concluding that there is a type of person termed covert borderline. Have you met anyone like this? Is it through anecdotes from others? Where did your knowledge about this come from?
I truly believe I may have been in a covert borderline relationship for 7 years. It has been on and off a lot. Currently it is off and raw. I'd love to be questioned on what makes me think that way. I think it would be interesting and healing even if I am completely wrong.
Dear Sam, I ve been watching and listening to this very appointment in the last week, every day a portion of it: brain and life nourishment and instruments to save our life from demolishing covert Narcissists . I ve just been supported in the last 3 weeks by your analysis. In the last week I ve been devoured by a 10yrs friendship and work connection person, a work collaboration colleague/chief , whom at the apex of a work project with a final public event, turned into a demon destroying every single bite of my role and any relation btwn me and at least 7-10 persons but the only woman a Junior who well knows how to see persons with her clear view, nevertheless her only 23yrs. He has in only 3 days poisoned with one only bite all of me, turning 10 persons back at me , replying with absolute silence andnot providing material to close all interactions the days following the event. He has aggressed me in public because I started being neutral to his out of place sudden request , he accused me of being a demon myself in public the other day in high voice tone, and that I was doing my own business instead of the Company one. I am having very proofing hours, any step I took either silence interaction or bouncing back with neutral tones had turned against my own person. I wish to express all my commotion and gratitude to you for having openly shared about yourself and your inner battle, it made my eyes warm up. Grazie .
I’d love to have a video on this as well as I think I (BPD) just went through a “relationship” with someone who fits the covert borderline description to a T.
If a covert borderline sticks around for 3 to 4 years and installs an interject. Would he still carry the ideal love or would he then switch her to a mother figure?
I see similarities between CoBPD and HPD, especially the secondary psychopath traits. If both traits seem to be equally present, which disorder is the fundamental one?
Im a self-aware borderline currently in therapy also diagnosed with CPTSD. My ex who I highly suspect is a covert borderline, tried to do just that with me. He admitted the reason why he thought this relationship would work, was because I was just as broken as him (I had just gotten out of the mental hospital the year prior, and was very open with him about it from the get go, as well about my recovery, which he thought he could take into his own hands as he dismissed professionals.). Spoiler alert: it did not last.
Psychopaths are charming. Narcissists and covert borderlines cast a spell on you with the lovebombing and hall of mirrors phases of shared fantasy. Watch the shared fantasy playlist.
Thank you for these great videos! I have a stupid question : If the the narcisist can "install" a introject in you mind and that introject becomes primary introject, why the " death mother" of the narcisist doesn't do exactly the same thing in the mind of the narcisist? And because the child doesn't have other introjects or they are " weak", the introject of the " death mother' becomes primary introject and the false self is just a reaction to the internal primary introject, And that is that "hive mind, insect like" that you are reffering in the video. Thank you!
When you say cdpd have no serious relationship because he only need ideal love, that's totally agreed, but what happen if he thought he found the ideal love, when he knows that's his ideal love for a relationship that get more than 1 years? Do he still cbpd? Or it's just the feel of afraid that his partner will be ruined if he break up with her?
Professor, I am in a journey seeking help for my girlfriend who meets 8 of 9 BPD criteria (no self harm at all). She often presents with narcissistic tendencies (thinking massive rock stars are doing things specifically for her) and also heavy delusions of persecution (thinking other girls are doing things to hurt her) but then will fall into deep depressive states after a rage episode. Would you suggest DBT or even medication for this? She wants treatment because she knows she’s messed up.
@@samvaknin I don’t think I’ve seen them but will look. Have post-concussion syndrome at the moment (clobbered my head on a doorway because we lowered the clearance and I’m still not used to it)
@@samvaknin What purpose would the paranoid ideation serve if the Covert borderline does not believe that he has caused any wrongdoing? Would it be almost like a false internal dialogue he learned and inserted from childhood trauma?
In a relationship, is a covert borderline able to tolerate peace within the household with his spouse? The reason I ask is due to him having paranoid ideation.
We can absolutely tolerate peace! When we have peace it's very beautiful. We will investigate you and spy on you. If we never find anything suspicious we will trust you and we can have peace. We can have peace with people who are extremely honest and good. If you fail we will see it. So there's very little room for mistakes lol! If you are dishonest and we see it, we. An never unsee it. It will be difficult to trust you after that.
I would think maybe dbt could help against some Borderline Symptoms ? I think a covert Borderliner dont need to be a Party Person ,its more about a charming appearence
Any correlation between someone who fits Classic Borderline when younger and into early 20’s and in later 20’s into 30’s became more Covert Borderline? Is it just a Classic Borderline who adapted, started to mirror narcissistic partners, simply just a change with age? Covert Borderline seems like a slightly more dark, mysterious, sinister version of the Classic.
Perhaps I may be the only individual equipped with the superpower of covert borderline personality armour with honestly genuine modesty and humility in certain situations where I respect and or adore the individual. All I know is that it’s inbuilt for me to keep my head down and downplay myself in certain scenarios. Like.. sometimes I’ll pretend to stutter in front of my friends girlfriends.. I won’t show off and I won’t engage with them much. Sometimes Im modest and don’t talk about myself in front of certain characters, maybe I respect the person a lot or I adore them I don’t want to seem like an asshole I’ll just listen to them. I am going to put you on the offensive here by initialising my question with the word how and contextualising it in a loving way. Ok here goes.. “Sir, how do you know it’s fake?” Like sir, first of all to provide your viewers with the service they deserve and came for with a bit of language that shows you are open to the possibilities of antithetical truths.. instead of selling your truths as matter of facts. Like the covert borderline personality disorder being a genuine and not so bad individual. Maybe that’s a possibility. I know you didn’t say outright directly that the covert is of bad character or nature bur that’s essentially making us look like disrespectful people without the capacity to genuinely want to downplay themselves out of love or respect to others. A statement made out to be the universal truth to the covert borderline personality disorder in every scenario given all aspects, elements, dynamics, particulars the consideration they deserve before making such a critical evaluation is indeed a fatal error especially when it’s ostentatiously spoken adamantly with vehemence and conviction.. Anyways.. This inaccurate analysis on that point emotionally triggers me negatively and I feel insulted because never have I been fake humble.. ever. Sometimes I held back because I have the innate intuition to automatically know when not to show off. I’m not an overt narcissist that just has to utterly saturate every conversation with my feats like a seeping tyre or balloon. Like I can’t be genuine and not want to steal your Thunder and let you feel good in your moment without having to ruin it with my flamboyance, like I can’t be real and be considerate of others feelings and hold other peoples best interests at heart. That is such a slap to the face for me.. but anyways.. everything else in your previous videos I agree with except for the black and white thinking part, I have the capacity to calculate the grey area when I evaluate things. It’s not just black and white, its not always infantile thinking. We all have our moments.. I had to stop this video and type how I feel about what you said, people don’t appreciate my loving heart, and something needs to be said. It’s like my character is being attacked. Anyways, I’m sorry for trying to sound smart or sound bashful on your video I respect your level of intellect, your status and your eloquence and the whole package, you know what I mean.. but at the same time.. the point I don’t agree with, I feel strongly about it and I can type with conviction as know for sure I am not fake.. I’m far from fake. I’m also sure that I’m a covert borderline because from your other works it has confirmed it to me. Too many boxes ticked. Anyways, I have the function to know when to do what socially. I think they call it EQ. It’s a nice feeling to show off sometimes.. like for example, a healthy level of narcissistic tendencies is good for the soul.. like.. your specific style of speech and the common theme with the choices of terminologies you have a high proclivity to revolve around, I picked up one time in one of your videos you utilised the terminology “Idiosyncratic” immediately followed up with the terminology “peculiar” entailing the terminology “idiosyncratic” OK. NOW. To clarify in a direct manner out of honour and respect I’m not being bashful here. But we could have used the word “weird.” That word would’ve suited the occasion just as well as idiosyncratic as peculiar as that is 😂, but anyways, back to the important primary task that we currently have at hand here and that is the fact that sometimes, a little bit of narcissism so to speak is harmless. In fact, when you speak the way you do Professor.. I appreciate you and respect you a lot more because it takes passion and dedication to memorise more sophisticated synonyms so th extra syllables added to it. I love the English language and the way you speak really resonates with me and you cannot tell me it doesn’t stem from a narcissistic place to speak the way you do however is it a bad thing? It appears to be perceived by you from a vantage point of sainthood almost as if you are articulating the conveyance of your piercing perception of this function of modality, this element of the covert borderline personality disorder with a slight tinge of toxicity on the coverts behalf. Anyways, I didn’t write this properly, I’m tired.. a bit stoned.. haven’t slept last night. Trouble in my life. I will stop wasting your time with my typing now goodbye, I love you professor please keep up your amazing insights, they are deeply appreciated by me and guys please don’t judge my entire level of intellect and what have you with a snapshot judgement of my little paragraph here.. Im sure I can sweep you off your feet with my finesse and eloquence and passion and heart and intellect and HAHAHA anyways.. I know I have written “anyways” multiple times, I know. I’m not trying to be a perfectionist and I’m tired, I smoked a lot of weed and quite frankly, I did not sleep yesterday for reasons you do not need to know why. LOL, Xie Xie.
I've seen my ex act like he's angry every time I've seen it it's just been a great big show that's all you didn't get angry. But if you said no he would rage and rage and rage for 4 and a half hours😊 outside of my kitchen window I'll never forget it. I had told him know I gave him a limit of 500 on a stereo we spent a thousand no I wasn't going to pay for it then he believed me he turned pale escapee and raised for 4 and 1/2 hours this was not anger this was rage. He can't even be angry every time he tries it's such a funny thing it's crazy it's just a big act.
I Am 100% Behind Re-Naming These psychotics ; for the simple reason that the word ", narcissist" does not accurately hit The "DANGER ⚡" button in the mind, and therefore The barriers are not immediately raised.🔥🌈🪶💕
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You’re back! I’m so happy for you (and me as I’ll get my late night brain food back)! That would have been a huge injustice if you were not allowed back on here.
I know we have 5-6 videos on covert borderline as a suggested diagnosis, but it is so spot on, I’ve watched the videos we have 20-30 times each. I watch them almost every day. My experience with a covert B has been absolutely destroying. If we could have more lectures, I bet I’m not the only one who would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for your work
Watching it 30 times is excessive and means you haven’t healed
ONE OF THE BEST INTERVIEWS REALIZED TO SAM VAKNIN, SHE NEVER INTERRUPTED , EXCELENT QUESTIONS , HER INTERACTIONS WERE VERY ARTICULATED..
Shalom Mr vaknin, I'm glad to see you on UA-cam again!!
I really missed you! You have such deep understanding of human behaviour! When I listen to you, things become clear. Thank you for making these videos!
This is such an accurate description of a combo my clinical psychologist defined my ex as “a borderline with narcissistic pathology and psychopathic traits” … “a dangerous combo” he said.
My BPD ex cultivated an emotional relationship with her boss for a year, and kept lying about the nature of it, all the while, the closer she got with him, the more she devalued me. The flip outs and the picking fights got more and more severe until I was walking on eggshells all the time. I was terrified to even answer her calls, my body would shake. The moment we broke up, she was spending all of her time with him, pretty much dove right into a relationship with jinx continuing to lie about them, gaslighting the heck out of me. When I finally broke the spell of the gaslighting and told her how devastated I felt, utterly betrayed… there wasn’t an ounce of accountability. Not only was she not accountable, but she turned into quite a psychopath, enjoying torturing me with it. Telling me things like “I can’t WAIT to fuck him”, constantly telling me how much better he was than me. Yes, she intentionally TRIED to hurt me. Then blocked me everywhere when I begged her for compassion. It was the most devastating experience of my life in my 44 years.
I'm so sorry that's awful she sounds like an absolute terror and to due to that awful relationship, it makes it extremely difficult to trust again so no matter who you are with in the future you'll always be guarded because of this trauma I would start therapy it's really the only way to help yourself heal. I think for me it was the total destruction of my life my ex was enjoying it I felt like I saw my life in a movie when removed his mask but just thank god or your higher power because I actually had a child with person, they will take everything you hold dear away, and you find yourself in litigation for years total demons they are.
i’m so very sorry you went through this. I’m going thru similar. Please be sure you get proper counseling that is needed. Try to take it as a learning experience & don’t let it ruin your loving nature moving fwd
Excellent content. I have been able to make sense of the last 37 years plus in dealing with the covert cluster B. He has passed from this world now and I have escaped his family of flying monkeys with their own cluster B personalities. I am on the road to recovery. Thank you.
Wow. I feel like we know the same passed soul! He passed in May 2023.
Yes, yes, I'm happy to see you back Professor Sam Vaknin !!
Incredible interview...
Good distinctions and explanation of co-morbities.
A brilliant insight into covert borderline. I really liked how you differentiated the personalities by examples of behavioural traits from covert narcissism and psychopath. Would like to see you both in another collaboration. Questions and answers excellent. Explanation of complex personalities was educational and fascinating.
Love these deep dives, thank you Dr. Sam Vaknin for looking deeply within yourself to help solve the mysteries of these puzzling human cognitive conditions. Very insightful and have helped me understand a very dangerous relationship I was in.
I don't mean this as a slight on you guys... But Im wondering... A Therapist seems like an ideal job for a covert narcissist? Do narcissists choose jobs deliberately in order to be in control of others.? Do you feel that some therapists are actually just disturbed themselves and are working they're issues out through they're patients?
Again.. Im not implying anything here.
Absolutely Peter. If you want to find psychopathy look where you will find populations of vulnerable people who are easy to manipulate
@@chillwinstonuk But not Sam. We are so lucky to have him doing the hard work he does which benefits all of us. He helps me to get through every day.
I have spent many yrs. working with therapist most of the time they are seeing therapist in nearby towns or hour drive kind of thing and some the real worst tell you everything about their sessions with their clients while you are in a group setting like the dayroom. I have seen only one therapist do that and I left that place never looked back.
This is so good. Thank you
Simply and eloquently spoken as always, really enjoy these interview style discussions. A class above in education and content presentation. Thank you as always. As we all learn we all soldier on, we win our small battles… inside and out.
My husband who fits your frighteningly accurate He is the big Senior Council, yet he has lied, cheated and stolen which took me years to catch on to since it was so contradictory to his persona. He skipped making 27 mortgage payments in my condo while I was I’ll and having 11 surgeries, and kept the rent checks also! Now I have to stay and go back to work at age 64. Arghh. “I haven’t lied to you in 19!months!” Out of 10 years. No thanks.
This is not a covert borderline
Sam, You really shine in here and you gave great information that I think a lot of people, myself included, needed to hear. Thanks for sharing what you know, you have some amazing information. Here, it is as if you just condensed 20 years of study into one video. I am glad you posted this. And I thank you for posting things of this nature, you have taught me so much and I appreciate it.
Hi Sam.
I really enjoy your information it's relevant to continue researching about it. Thanks again
Totally eye opening, thank you Sam
Thank you for uploading these videos!
Brilliant Sir …
Brilliant 🤩
Professor Sam Vaknin is the ROCKSTAR OF PSYCHOLOGY 🤘🤘🤘
This video is a treasure
As a self diagnosed covert borderline, I related to this so much that I had to stop at Baskin Robbins to discuss my feelings with a cone of jamoca. Would love to dispute everything he said but...uh.....
I'm open to questions!
@@amandarattray2845what is your describtion of an ideal love
Very helpful information. Thank you very much Dr Vaknin!
Sounds like me. Haha.
Got to love the synchronicity that as I was typing that comment, we have the quote, "The Covert Borderline is a seriously sick person." hahaha
I wish I could have Prof Vaknin diagnose me, so I actually have an idea what I need to fix.
0.51 wow.. that is so on point. I lived through that! 😢
Emotional violence on steroids
This is helping me explore some things for me and for past relationships.
I rather let him have his grandiosity and live 🥺.it’s a sad thing to see the potential in this ppl but they are so messed up ,you don’t know how to handle them🤕🤒
This video helped me understand the very brief yet “intense” relationship that I just had with a man I strongly suspect is a covert borderline.
Your other videos also help me understand myself a lot better, as a borderline myself who’s currently in therapy and very aware of my triggers.
As an unaware covert borderline who’s also against therapy, I doubt he’ll ever wake up from the illusion of finding “the perfect person for him” where everything feels effortless. Your video helped me realise the whole thing was a mirage - he fell head over heels with the idea of love when he met me - not who I was as a person. And because he had that “self-sacrificial”, “superman”, “saviour complex” side that you talk about here, he wanted to be the one to “save” me, and he probably thought it’d be easy, whilst looking down on therapy. He dipped, turning ice cold from one day to the next, without even facing me.
Thank you so much for your work.
Just to add to the mirage part: he became what he thought I needed/wanted, and when he realised he couldn’t hold up that image, because it didn’t fit his idea of the perfect love, he left. Goodbye, Good riddance.
Which is also why he wouldn’t even face me and broke up through text, and completely ignored my attempts at at least doing it through the phone - he had already gotten over me, because he never loved ME in the first place.
Glad you have come back Professor!
My guts tell me who are you describing as covert borderline 😊. Proof me wrong!
Prof. Vaknin, would you consider creating a video on people with subclinical narcissism / narcissistic styles? More specifically, while I understand NPD is not treatable, are narcissistic traits treatable in subclinical narcissists? Additionally, if someone has no diagnosable NPD but does have traits such as grandiosity, need for narcissistic supply, and some level of a false self, couldn't they benefit from some form of Cold Therapy? (let's say they do otherwise have empathy, no significant emotional dysregulation, and are not abusive). Thank you!
Siempre vino tinto 😁? Qué placer encontrar al original Profesor Sam Vaknin! Hay muchos canales que repiten tu trabajo de una manera terrible 😖 Hacen falta más trabajos tuyos en español. Muchas gracias por compartir tan claramente tu investigación y sabiduria. Saludos desde Argentina 🇦🇷 , tu sentido del humor es genial!!!
Thank you so much proffesor
I would have watched 5 more hours, such fascinating content
Just wow - amazing video
It sucks because I’ve been looking at this stuff with a borderline loved one for 10 years and I feel you are the only one actually trying to say what is actually happening. As if we can’t say what will have to actually happen for these people to get better. We can’t hide behind the curtain to fix things. Telling what actually happens is the right way.
Totally comprehendsible, thank you very much. Now I know specific word for whom and what I am. I am 43 and I reprogramming my self sense when I've was 24 years of age, first through two weeks of family treatment and right after that I've realize then that I needed go through rehabilitation usage of minnesota model with my addiction with hash and al-kuhl, mainly for hash, tree times. I've watched and learn so much through your videos. I've been 'researching' online about psychopathy, sociopathy, narcissism and bpd. Now I'm certain that I am covert bpd,and know exactly whom I am even though I know my self, still learning. I know I would stop learning and growing till my death.
Sam, I do beleive there is an element of hereditary traits,when observing families you will see the traits through out them. Like most mental health disorders that are hereditary.
Borderline is partly hereditary. I say it in many videos.
I’d love to know more about your opinion of the current state of the contemporary art scene. I find the contemporary art world to be a swamp of toxic personality disorders that are praised to the highest degree - unlike most of classical art ideals that praised intelligence, craftsmanship, beauty etc. I feel that future trends in society firstly reveal themselves in the arts, although this is too tenuous to be absolutely sure off. I wonder if the unmitigated rubbish the public consumes is the taste of the masses? Or is it mostly the output of a very sick elite? Some gallerists, museum directors, cultural foundation managers etc seem quite like covert borderlines, although I assume the majority of current artists to be a bit squizoid or covert narcissists.
Sex sells
What happens to the Covert borderline when he cannot maintain the fantasy of ideal love?
He persists much longer than the narcissist, but then lapses into the same behaviors: devalue-discard-replace-hoover.
(1) Welcome back! (2) I'm using the search function but do you have any videos dedicated to how sexual assault victims are re-victimized by the "justice" system? As a friend of a boy who initiated a sexual relationship with his teacher, we are both wondering if there were less traumatic alternatives than the shit-show that ensued after that teacher's arrest, which included her being sentenced to 20 years in prison, and him having weekly "therapy" sessions. I'm seeing your article titled, "The Guilt of the Abused: Pathologizing the Victim," so I will keep searching your tripod site.
So Ive been trying to get answers from professionals the last couple of years, but they write me off, as if Im malingering (which I guess is a possibility).
Im so glad I found your channel though, as this seems all very familiar to me. Atleast now Im more aware.
Thank you!
I think people should be given the chance to choose if they are willing to suffer or risk their defenses etc in order to heal snd/or become whole. I've been through the ordeal of healing, and probably still am, and it was totally worth it, and maybe if I'd have had the possibility to do it in an organized fashion /treatment instead of doing it myself through trial and error, it would have been easier or at least faster..
I am not diagnosed as a covert borderline but I can relation to a lot of what you described. I was never serious about intermittent reinforcement.. I just leave and seek ideal love. That's me. Except for I like authority.
I like authority when I think they DESERVE that position. Are you weathy because your worked hard or because it was given to you? I love when I find a intelligent and ambitious person...so hard to match my standard. Hahaha, I really connect wit the coverbordeline.
Professor Vaknin, you often say the narc doesn’t gaslight, but the psychopath does. Does the covert borderline gaslight when he is in the primary psychopathic state? Does the psychopathic state emerge when he is confronted with intimacy?
The psychopathic self-state emerges mainly when faced with abandonment or betrayal and then he also gaslights. Covert borderlines seek intimacy. Watch the covert borderline playlist.
hallelujah! best man back, shall sleep now.
What effect can a covert borderline father and a covert narcissist mother have on a child?
Do covert borderlines have a tendency to completely isolate themselves because they might be self-aware and not want to hurt anyone? (I once heard you say something along the lines of it is a good choice for cluster b’s to self-isolate so they don’t hurt others?). Is their attachment style generally avoidant, or anxious-avoidant combination? I have not heard you say anything about envy regarding covert borderlines. Are they envious, like the narcissist?
Hi, thank you both for this video. It opened my eyes up in a cathartic and helpful way. I knew mybex was diagnosed with personality disorders. He witheld what the combination is (no surprise there!)
Everything that you have explained, absolutely fits and makes sense
I'm determined he has no part in my life now.
We live in the same road though. He's not getting a rise out of me, or any attention whatsoever. He's tried though. He's blocked from contacting me via my phone etc. This is the first time that I've done this in the last two years ( he successfully hoovered me - uh doh!)
Have you had experience of people living so close post split up (from a most likely: covert borderline)?
He has already tried to communicate when driving past.
He's already tried to gain an upper hand in front of people. It didn't work though.
I am expecting this, but also for it to fade away as time goes on.
Will it just fade as he hoovers up other women?
If he is a covert borderline he will eventually just move on from you. It might be painful for you. If you don't fit their idea of this ideal live they will move on. But probably no hard feelings
@@bananafanalll6651
Oh, he was always moving on.
There will be no friendship available from myself. I have utter contempt and disgust left for him. Wouldn't it be convenient for him to have another ex to add to his harem of supply for when he's lonely. No hard feelings because he was never honestly invested in a genuine relationship.
He can eff off for good in my book. No pleasantries. Nothing.
This song by Tove Lo describes Covert Borderline as described by Dr. Vaknin
"This Time Around"
I used to take your breath away
I used to make your laugh about anything
I used to be your getaway
Your getaway, your dream
I was everything you needed
You used to lean your eyes on me
You used to open up and share your world
You used to loose yourself in me
Let the hours pass all running by so fast but now
What I'm doing
I don't know what I'm doing
Cause I don't even feel it
Bodies growing colder with the distance now
And I don't even mean it
Got my hands all over you, but not a sound
I'm always so in love, all in
Til I start going numb thinking
Thought you'd make me feel it
Thought that I'd be different this time around
This time around
I'm definitely a covert borderline but I am real. I think I'm the most real. Im Definitely a super hero! I do always apologize. Sometimes I will apologize just to keep the peace. It's another part of my moral compass that is catered to me. I'm always on the moral high ground! It's something I'm working on. I don't judge but I think I know whats good for you. I always see your potential and not what you actually are.
Prof Vaknin, you refer to NPD and BPD frequently existing in co-morbidity, is it also possible for covert NPD and covert BPD to exist in co-morbidity? Or for the cycles of overt/collapse/covert to cycle over the course of the life of someone with both NPD and BPD? For them to move between defences dependent on self states or environmental factors?
Covert BPD is similar to an overt narcissist, so cannot be comorbid with covert narcissist. As to your other question, search the channel.
Hi Prof. I’ve been watching your videos for several years and I found this to be one of the most insightful. Makes total sense to me. I’m just wondering how you put all this together in terms of concluding that there is a type of person termed covert borderline. Have you met anyone like this? Is it through anecdotes from others? Where did your knowledge about this come from?
There are people like this and I am one of them
I wish thi video was five hours long
Be careful what you wish for.
I truly believe I may have been in a covert borderline relationship for 7 years. It has been on and off a lot. Currently it is off and raw. I'd love to be questioned on what makes me think that way. I think it would be interesting and healing even if I am completely wrong.
which one of the cluster B is more likely to overly rage and take radical decisions if you 'touch' /manipulate objects or things that belongs to him?
Psychopath or Narcissist, in this order.
WOW/ just WOW
Dear Sam, I ve been watching and listening to this very appointment in the last week, every day a portion of it: brain and life nourishment and instruments to save our life from demolishing covert Narcissists .
I ve just been supported in the last 3 weeks by your analysis. In the last week I ve been devoured by a 10yrs friendship and work connection person, a work collaboration colleague/chief , whom at the apex of a work project with a final public event, turned into a demon destroying every single bite of my role and any relation btwn me and at least 7-10 persons but the only woman a Junior who well knows how to see persons with her clear view, nevertheless her only 23yrs.
He has in only 3 days poisoned with one only bite all of me, turning 10 persons back at me , replying with absolute silence andnot providing material to close all interactions the days following the event.
He has aggressed me in public because I started being neutral to his out of place sudden request , he accused me of being a demon myself in public the other day in high voice tone, and that I was doing my own business instead of the Company one.
I am having very proofing hours, any step I took either silence interaction or bouncing back with neutral tones had turned against my own person.
I wish to express all my commotion and gratitude to you for having openly shared about yourself and your inner battle, it made my eyes warm up.
Grazie .
Is covert bpd more effective / well-adapted than overt narcissism?
Yes.
Hello, can two covert borderline have an intimate long term relationship?
No.
Why is borderline's fantasy idealism than that of a Narcissist which is supply of grandiosity- if borderlines are really failed narcissistic?
How is the dynamic of interpersonal relationship between borderline and covert borderline?
I’d love to have a video on this as well as I think I (BPD) just went through a “relationship” with someone who fits the covert borderline description to a T.
Genius ❤
My hero.
If a covert borderline sticks around for 3 to 4 years and installs an interject. Would he still carry the ideal love or would he then switch her to a mother figure?
Introject.
I see similarities between CoBPD and HPD, especially the secondary psychopath traits.
If both traits seem to be equally present, which disorder is the fundamental one?
I see: It's probably BPD.
since covert borderline needs you broken in order to improve, does he tend to try to rebuild cptsd if he meets them?
Im a self-aware borderline currently in therapy also diagnosed with CPTSD. My ex who I highly suspect is a covert borderline, tried to do just that with me. He admitted the reason why he thought this relationship would work, was because I was just as broken as him (I had just gotten out of the mental hospital the year prior, and was very open with him about it from the get go, as well about my recovery, which he thought he could take into his own hands as he dismissed professionals.). Spoiler alert: it did not last.
are covert borderline naturally socially charming like narcissists or it's more like a progressive aquired/learned skill ?
Psychopaths are charming. Narcissists and covert borderlines cast a spell on you with the lovebombing and hall of mirrors phases of shared fantasy. Watch the shared fantasy playlist.
Thank you for these great videos!
I have a stupid question : If the the narcisist can "install" a introject in you mind and that introject becomes primary introject, why the " death mother" of the narcisist doesn't do exactly the same thing in the mind of the narcisist? And because the child doesn't have other introjects or they are " weak", the introject of the " death mother' becomes primary introject and the false self is just a reaction to the internal primary introject, And that is that "hive mind, insect like" that you are reffering in the video.
Thank you!
Watch the From Child to Narcissist playlist.
When you say cdpd have no serious relationship because he only need ideal love, that's totally agreed, but what happen if he thought he found the ideal love, when he knows that's his ideal love for a relationship that get more than 1 years? Do he still cbpd? Or it's just the feel of afraid that his partner will be ruined if he break up with her?
Professor, I am in a journey seeking help for my girlfriend who meets 8 of 9 BPD criteria (no self harm at all). She often presents with narcissistic tendencies (thinking massive rock stars are doing things specifically for her) and also heavy delusions of persecution (thinking other girls are doing things to hurt her) but then will fall into deep depressive states after a rage episode. Would you suggest DBT or even medication for this? She wants treatment because she knows she’s messed up.
Search the BPD and the therapies playlists.
@@samvaknin I don’t think I’ve seen them but will look. Have post-concussion syndrome at the moment (clobbered my head on a doorway because we lowered the clearance and I’m still not used to it)
Teach about group narcissism like on jobs and universities. Groups destroying individuals
Search the channel.
Would a male covert borderline also be considered the borderline of psychosis?
Yes.
@@samvaknin What purpose would the paranoid ideation serve if the Covert borderline does not believe that he has caused any wrongdoing? Would it be almost like a false internal dialogue he learned and inserted from childhood trauma?
Covert borderline, wolf in sheep’s clothing. 36:31
Wow so none are safe...
Sam❤✨
Get out of my head Sam Vaknin! 😂
In a relationship, is a covert borderline able to tolerate peace within the household with his spouse? The reason I ask is due to him having paranoid ideation.
We can absolutely tolerate peace! When we have peace it's very beautiful. We will investigate you and spy on you. If we never find anything suspicious we will trust you and we can have peace. We can have peace with people who are extremely honest and good. If you fail we will see it. So there's very little room for mistakes lol! If you are dishonest and we see it, we. An never unsee it. It will be difficult to trust you after that.
Can this be treated?
Also, can there be a covert borderline that isn’t social? Not the life of the party?
I would think maybe dbt could help against some Borderline Symptoms ? I think a covert Borderliner dont need to be a Party Person ,its more about a charming appearence
Well damn... i got a title now because i never fit in either diagnosis but i be damn if this isn't spot on
Any correlation between someone who fits Classic Borderline when younger and into early 20’s and in later 20’s into 30’s became more Covert Borderline? Is it just a Classic Borderline who adapted, started to mirror narcissistic partners, simply just a change with age? Covert Borderline seems like a slightly more dark, mysterious, sinister version of the Classic.
A classic borderline cannot "evolve" into a covert borderline.
Is it possible for a former partner to be so dependent upon a covert borderline? If they were to have a prior long-term relationship?
Yes most likely. Covert borderlines are perfect lovers but to perfect. It's dangerous to be everything someone wants and not yourself
Perhaps I may be the only individual equipped with the superpower of covert borderline personality armour with honestly genuine modesty and humility in certain situations where I respect and or adore the individual. All I know is that it’s inbuilt for me to keep my head down and downplay myself in certain scenarios. Like.. sometimes I’ll pretend to stutter in front of my friends girlfriends.. I won’t show off and I won’t engage with them much. Sometimes Im modest and don’t talk about myself in front of certain characters, maybe I respect the person a lot or I adore them I don’t want to seem like an asshole I’ll just listen to them. I am going to put you on the offensive here by initialising my question with the word how and contextualising it in a loving way. Ok here goes.. “Sir, how do you know it’s fake?” Like sir, first of all to provide your viewers with the service they deserve and came for with a bit of language that shows you are open to the possibilities of antithetical truths.. instead of selling your truths as matter of facts. Like the covert borderline personality disorder being a genuine and not so bad individual. Maybe that’s a possibility. I know you didn’t say outright directly that the covert is of bad character or nature bur that’s essentially making us look like disrespectful people without the capacity to genuinely want to downplay themselves out of love or respect to others. A statement made out to be the universal truth to the covert borderline personality disorder in every scenario given all aspects, elements, dynamics, particulars the consideration they deserve before making such a critical evaluation is indeed a fatal error especially when it’s ostentatiously spoken adamantly with vehemence and conviction.. Anyways.. This inaccurate analysis on that point emotionally triggers me negatively and I feel insulted because never have I been fake humble.. ever. Sometimes I held back because I have the innate intuition to automatically know when not to show off. I’m not an overt narcissist that just has to utterly saturate every conversation with my feats like a seeping tyre or balloon. Like I can’t be genuine and not want to steal your Thunder and let you feel good in your moment without having to ruin it with my flamboyance, like I can’t be real and be considerate of others feelings and hold other peoples best interests at heart. That is such a slap to the face for me.. but anyways.. everything else in your previous videos I agree with except for the black and white thinking part, I have the capacity to calculate the grey area when I evaluate things. It’s not just black and white, its not always infantile thinking. We all have our moments.. I had to stop this video and type how I feel about what you said, people don’t appreciate my loving heart, and something needs to be said. It’s like my character is being attacked. Anyways, I’m sorry for trying to sound smart or sound bashful on your video I respect your level of intellect, your status and your eloquence and the whole package, you know what I mean.. but at the same time.. the point I don’t agree with, I feel strongly about it and I can type with conviction as know for sure I am not fake.. I’m far from fake. I’m also sure that I’m a covert borderline because from your other works it has confirmed it to me. Too many boxes ticked. Anyways, I have the function to know when to do what socially. I think they call it EQ. It’s a nice feeling to show off sometimes.. like for example, a healthy level of narcissistic tendencies is good for the soul.. like.. your specific style of speech and the common theme with the choices of terminologies you have a high proclivity to revolve around, I picked up one time in one of your videos you utilised the terminology “Idiosyncratic” immediately followed up with the terminology “peculiar” entailing the terminology “idiosyncratic” OK. NOW. To clarify in a direct manner out of honour and respect I’m not being bashful here. But we could have used the word “weird.” That word would’ve suited the occasion just as well as idiosyncratic as peculiar as that is 😂, but anyways, back to the important primary task that we currently have at hand here and that is the fact that sometimes, a little bit of narcissism so to speak is harmless. In fact, when you speak the way you do Professor.. I appreciate you and respect you a lot more because it takes passion and dedication to memorise more sophisticated synonyms so th extra syllables added to it. I love the English language and the way you speak really resonates with me and you cannot tell me it doesn’t stem from a narcissistic place to speak the way you do however is it a bad thing? It appears to be perceived by you from a vantage point of sainthood almost as if you are articulating the conveyance of your piercing perception of this function of modality, this element of the covert borderline personality disorder with a slight tinge of toxicity on the coverts behalf. Anyways, I didn’t write this properly, I’m tired.. a bit stoned.. haven’t slept last night. Trouble in my life. I will stop wasting your time with my typing now goodbye, I love you professor please keep up your amazing insights, they are deeply appreciated by me and guys please don’t judge my entire level of intellect and what have you with a snapshot judgement of my little paragraph here.. Im sure I can sweep you off your feet with my finesse and eloquence and passion and heart and intellect and HAHAHA anyways.. I know I have written “anyways” multiple times, I know. I’m not trying to be a perfectionist and I’m tired, I smoked a lot of weed and quite frankly, I did not sleep yesterday for reasons you do not need to know why. LOL, Xie Xie.
I've seen my ex act like he's angry every time I've seen it it's just been a great big show that's all you didn't get angry. But if you said no he would rage and rage and rage for 4 and a half hours😊 outside of my kitchen window I'll never forget it. I had told him know I gave him a limit of 500 on a stereo we spent a thousand no I wasn't going to pay for it then he believed me he turned pale escapee and raised for 4 and 1/2 hours this was not anger this was rage. He can't even be angry every time he tries it's such a funny thing it's crazy it's just a big act.
But how do you know the difference if you've been that way your whole life. Don't you seem normal to you?
You do. But it doesn't make it normal.
I Am 100% Behind Re-Naming These psychotics ; for the simple reason that the word ", narcissist" does not accurately hit The "DANGER ⚡" button in the mind, and therefore The barriers are not immediately raised.🔥🌈🪶💕