Doormat Covert Narcissist Turns Primary Psychopath
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- From time to time, the Doormat Narcissist tries to fight back by conning people out of money (asserting himself by taking instead of giving). Or, he insists on sexual exclusivity at the commencement of every intimate relationship.
But even there he fails time and again: people see right through him and walk away and women cheat on him repeatedly, their needs unmet and in the hope that he will set them free and let them go once they have made him aware of their ostentatious transgressions.
Conning people is setting boundaries for and asserting NOT himself - but the fictitious character that he creates for the con. So, it defeats the purpose: again, he ends giving up everything of himself freely to ANOTHER man, albeit one that he conjures up.
Similarly, he makes women fall in love with a false apparition, an emanation, a thespian project, a role play - never with the real him. The grooming phase over, upon entering the shared fantasy, all his women discover to their dismay that he had conned them into a relationship with a complete, abusive, and mentally disabled stranger (him). Of course, their most fervent wish is to up and walk away, by any and all means necessary, including by having casual sex with strangers.
Again, by luring women into his lair, he is giving himself abundantly to ANOTHER man - albeit to a fictitious character, The Irresistible Genius. He is doing his dirty work for this fictional protagonist and satisfying his grandiose and sadistic needs: to uphold and prove his irresistibility and then to taunt, frustrate, humiliate, and despoil the women thus captivated. Those are the needs of the fictional character, not of the Doormat Narcissist and he dedicates all his resources to catering to them on the Superhero’s behalf.
Buy most of my books in Amazon www.amazon.com...
As a covert narcissist who has been forced to learn some very harsh truths, I can confirm this man just explained my entire mindset in this 1 video. It was like listening to a biography watching this video.
It's awesome Because you can be aware and rewire/manipulate your own thinking towards a positive trajectory/less harmful negative feelings. Knowing is half the battle
Was married to a Cov Narc, for 6 years. I
Had to leave for my own sanity, learning from Sam about all mental
People. I could relate with everythng I know was been and all his info is spot on. We are surrounded by con artists. Sanity is a rear state of beeing in this modern reckless world..
Covert narcissists hardly ever emanate or deflect feelings associated with situations, experiences or events and if they do it’s very subtle. In other words you don’t feel like they are part of anything in your life , they are very disconnected emotionally and physically from everything. Anything you experience with a covert narcissist is like you are experiencing it on your own.
Omg......I am so often trying to share my experiences with my guy (narc) and never understood that he just has no empathy.....he told me one time that he didn't understand about emotion.....having emotion......his understanding was that only women feel emotions......he actually said he didn't feel any emotion......
This is very true
My dad almost punched me and explodes when my memories of childhood abuse surfaced and my PTSD was so bad I thought he would burn the house down for insurance and instead he called his friends associated with the police and tried to say I was crazy and the abuse did not happen and put me in the mental hospital multiple times and essentially has been holding me hostage since I was 16 in 1992.
yes it is almost like they fade into the background and become part of the woodwork.
@@louiseboyd8896 No we dont. Not our fault
Exact words I used so many times... "There is something wrong but I can't put my finger on it" . There is no way to describe this feeling to anyone unless they have lived it and I hope you never have to.
They drain you as you feel sorry for them..Day drainers twist your words and ideas so.that you deep like not living..
This one stays in bed until 2pm and now after 5 months I'm having trouble having trouble.rousimg my mojo.after.being make called.and.twisted.and.controlled.
At some point I had started to believe if they were actually possessed by some kind of ghost or demon.
YES. This is my story for the past 24 years and I get told I am too sensitive
Yes I has this too. And because my ex covert was like 'the town saint' I kept pushing my intuition down saying that I'm fearing being close to him. My intuition was on point the whole time. I'm furious I let this loser fool me.
Holy shit I have said this so many times. I was just discarded by my covert after 3 months. For me it was a quick devalue/discard/breakup which is why I'm in such a state of confusion right now bc the relationship was mostly good, other than "something was wrong but I couldn't put my finger on it."
Covert narcissist are void. Maybe that’s why he never would tell me how he felt inside because there was nothing there.
This describes my ex. If I went into detail, I'd be here for hours. When you mentioned that something is just not right and they are fake.. yes. That sums it up. He was just kinda empty but had this anger and resentment you could sense but was expressed in very 'covert' way. He put on a a woe-is-me, I've been so mistreated persona. I felt like he wanted me around to boost his ego and cook for him, never giving much back in return. Great video
Yes, cook, clean, and boost his ego was my 1/2 of the cost of living, although he still wanted my half of the money.
Hi, thanks for sharing….how do you get away?
Are you sure we didn’t date the same man because this describes my ex to a T
Omg yes!!! I swear I was there solely to make him feel better. He was always in a woe is me mentality and I was forever trying to make him feel better. It took me waaaay to long to realise he was basically using me to boost his ego or his morale/mood.
Sums up my wife
Totally true, especially the part when u feel really guilty when reacting in an aggressive way to all the passive aggression and negativity coming from the narcissistic partner.
One feels that the other person has some serious trouble inside, but u can’t give it a name: depression, anxiety, paranoia, trauma? But compassion doesn’t help, no healthy form of support helps. And when u put boundaries and take away the attention and intents to change the negative mindset: you get the full load of ignoring, sabotaging and projecting…
A very painful realization that u can never “resolve” the problem.
I had an emocional breakdown and said lots of things to him. I left his place next day and then he made me feel so guilty and I tried to Go back and he Said no. I can't stand someone leaving me. It hurted my feelings...😮
Oh this.... it's the worse. The fleas infested
It's known as DARVO (deny and reverse victim order). Next thing you know, everything's about your so-called overeaction to the offense and then you look like the "bad" guy.
But this is actually good news. If someone turns against you because of something that someone like that says, they just ridded of you of a toxic situation you previously didn't even know you had on your hands before
Compassion for so-called people like those will KILL YOU. I had to learn the hard way
I currently fully realised my position and have set boundaries and withdrawn attention - soo true what you say- full load of ignoring and projecting ensued, I'm now double ignored for reminding him he told me to not to talk to him :) can't make this up. Prof Vaknin's channel is very helpful in understanding and this helps to survive.
When they want to take out revenge, everything covert about them is thrown out the window and they become monsters!
@Denise Denise my experience exactly.
So true. I thought he was the most polite person in the world,then one day he started with small remarks that just turned full blown insults and no remorse.It seemed that he was trying to take revenge in some way
The more I heal and educate myself, the more disturbed I also become at just how sick it all was.
@@0Demiyah0 yes, you don't realize how deep in the sickness you were till your out.
I truly believe that I have experienced just about every scenario of narcissistic and related behaviors of my boyfriend of 25 years and it has been horrendous......I feel damaged in a way because of putting up with a love-less, one-sided, unreciprical relationship for so long.....that is all I know......and yet I am still so full of love for others.....but I guess deep down I thought I didn't deserve to be loved and just had to live with the heartache.....sometimes you just deal with the cards life hands you.....I am loyal to a fault.....
The most dangerous person in the world , you could go years in a relationship and think this person is loyal
It's always important to do a bit of character testing. Sometimes, you have to stage an event just one time that lasts a while just to see if they would be there for you cause people like this are incredibly selfish. They live to comfort themselves, and in their minds, no one should take away attention from them
@@Trisof88 of you are staging events then that is manipulation, and not a natural occurrence and that makes YOU a psychopath.
Very dangerous.☠️💯💯 & very selfish!!..never known it until1👀
You literally are ‘living with the enemy’ in my case I had no clue. I was in danger the whole time and didn’t know it. That thought makes my skin crawl now. So glad I escaped
Agree, it happened to me.
The people pleasing of a covert narcissist is simply a manipulative game.
U missed the whole point
Yes, it is a total gain to them. I remember mine he would cook clean and just be right there but when I needed support from him, because my son died, he disappeared the lies stealing. Unfortunately, he was killed two years ago. I believe it was from buying drugs. His family would not tell me anything even though he was in my house four days a week for seven years of course his family blamed me but that’s OK, I couldn’t be any more happier right now in my life. Sorry for his misfortune. Wow he had done a lot of damage to me and others horrific shit that he has done.! practically killed me several times so happy it’s over!!!! grateful❤
No it’s not
One of the most damaging personality types you will ever encounter. Recovery is proving to be a long process.
❤
@Linda Pierce omg. Linda, thank you for your perspective.....yes, it helps to learn about the disorder so as to better cope and lessen the pain that they want to inflict....sometimes I feel like I am blocking his psychological punches and sending them back to him....my best defense is to remain calm and soft-spoken.....he wants a reaction.....
@@commonsenseneedtobepractic1861 dear heart....I hope you are well.....🙏
Personally I feel in ways I will not be able to recover
@@darkknight3251 oh no don’t say that. We have to heal.
It shook me to my core when I realized my father was a grandiose narc and my mother was a covert narc...Very chaotic and confusing childhood and adolesence... it truly destroyed my self-image and self-worth and self-esteem..my mom turned me into a care giver for herself like I had no other reason for my existance but being at her service.. I hope one day I can recover..
Stand up for yourself. Look for inner work. Life is one
that means there is a high chance you are one too right?
@@RareVieww he is one, guess how I know?
@@mrfiend how?
I know the feeling.
All of those "diagnosis" are "grown wounded children". It is so sad to see so many broken people suffering through the life, hurting each other.
They technically are.. but you cannot be too compassionate. You need to protect yourself. Always take the high road.. but never excuse bad behaviour.
@@hgzmatt Exactly
Three months ago, I left my ex narc-hole of 20 years, after he tried to set the house on fire while I was asleep. I wasnt asleep as he thought, and i caught him in the act. These cowards may act like grown children but dont ever confuse the act with the truth that their minds are far from child-like, they are dangerous manipulators. My ex narc-hole would sit and stare at me, while i was preparing dinner, with dark, empty, soulless, snake-like eyes. He didn't know i could see him in my peripheral vision. I could sense he was plotting and planning every last detail of how to cause my "accidental" death and then dispose of my body. When his house-fire plan failed, he immediately began plotting my next fatal "accident" where he was to electocute me while I was at the kitchen sink washing dishes. Children are innocent, these fake, cowardly idiots are far from innocent, and they are fully aware of everything they do, knowing it is wrong.
@Farran Hill If possible, you should get far away from him. Hopefully your children aren't really young. It's hard to have zero contact when you have children in common. He is dangerous and your gut knows it.
@Farran Hill Toddlers are adorable, I wish I had those times back so I could enjoy that time when mine were toddlers, instead of dealing with the constant stress, anxiety, and fear that my ex narc-hole made sure I felt, on a constant basis, through intentionally manipulating to cause mayhem within our family. I wish I knew then what I know now. But, you, Farren, still have all that time to be happy raising your children, without a narc-hole doing same to you and your children. You must begin today with recording everything he says, and document secretly on your phone each day about little things that happen, especially things that get you agitated, because he knows what bothers you and he'll work hard at ruining every day so he can get his supply through your frustration. You want to have enough evidence against him so he doesn't have a chance of getting unsupervised visits with your children. Save little bits of money when you can, and prepare your escape, even if you have to wait a year, it's better than 10 years.... save your babies from a lifetime of grief, pain and anguish that he will set upon them. He will never change and I can tell you from experience that he'll get much worse as he gets older. Godspeed.
I got abused by an overt narcissist in another country, when I got home the covert narcissist gave me sympathy and said out loud even my thoughts on that matter....until the covert ghosted me and left me cold. It was the covert narcissist that hurt me the most. The overt is a bully and others know it too, hes out there but the covert....chilling.
100%.
I can totally relate! I divorced my overt narcissist ex wife and a year later I started dating my now ex girlfriend! She was the most amazing woman I had ever met! Connected with me on a spiritual level (love bombing as I know now) she turned on my right after my mom died and I was not a good source of supply for her! I didn’t know that the opposite of my ex wife existed until I researched how this introverted woman could possibly have no empathy or remorse! But there I found it, the covert narcissist! It explained so many things and my anxiety over the years, the hypersensitive to many topics, the love bombing, the no commitment to reality, the passive aggressive behavior when I was not doing what she wanted, the gaslighting, and cognitive dissonance is experienced as her actions and words never seemed to add up. Of course I have educated myself and these words I use to explain are what I know now but were my entire relationship! I thought I was safe as she appeared to be the opposite of my ex wife! But I was wrong, and left once again to piece together my heart and soul! But I will rebuild myself and through educating myself I will find the right woman for my to have a healthy relationship with, no more toxic narcissists for me! I say no that I am done being their property (as they see us) I get to decide my life, not them! Be safe everyone!
@@danielcox9858 wish you all the best
I totally agree
@@danielcox9858
Hey man at 37 I realized that I had a pattern of dating these cluster B types. Probably some kind of familiarity to people I’ve known throughout my life. Anyway almost 4 years ago I met a woman who was loving and kind. No drama. As I got to know her she proved herself to be genuine and we enjoyed each other’s company. Now we’re married expecting a baby. It was almost like I finally had enough self awareness where I was at a fork in the road. It was either more of the same or someone genuine and down to earth. It was an easy decision. Good luck to you. Peace
My covert ex told me he did not want to be with me then sat on the floor and watched me sob on my bed. I asked him why was he still there just watching me blankly? And he just said he was just staying with me. Like an assurance to me. When I think back now, I think what a weirdo, and I feel a psychopathic man. A truly broken man damaged by his narcastic, bully father. Like father like son. It makes me feel sick to know I was living and married to this man for 16 years and had no idea who he was and how much hate and resentment and jelousy he had towards me. So glad I’m out of it and away from him
omg this!! the amount of times he hurt me on purpose just to stand there and act/pretend to comfort me... and then act surprised and offended for being called out... it's psychotic
When my ex wife told me she wanted a divorce and I became visibly upset she told “Stop Crying” I was not allowed to get angry or show emotion.
@@tommyburley5860 I think I was similar. If I showed any emotion ‘I had brought it upon myself’ or ‘I had started it so it was all my fault’ these people are not real. They live on cloud cuckoo land but you know what? We are better off, no longer our headache. His new wife will suffer the same. They never change
YES. watching with indifference, but feigning being human. YES - weirdos. Creeps. I've realized that if any behaviors seem OFF or screwy like that, you're likely dealing with a cov narc.
@@pilgrimsway2644 I’ve come to the realisation my ex is a covert narc. No therapist or health professional needs to confirm that. I lived with it for 16 years. How his new wife is surviving I don’t know. But I’m glad I live 200 miles away ! Different City, far away. Because when the fall out happen’s again (and it will) I won’t be there, and it won’t be me on the receiving end this time. She was the other woman he cheated with, who also (ironically) councils others on domestic abuse (which I suffered also at the hands of this man). Karma
“In the case of the Classic Narcissist you have a child. In the case of the Covert Narcissist you have an absence.”
Thank you Sam. This brought me great breakthrough and understanding.
Yes, I used to say my narc lived in his own world and I wasn't part of it unless I was being "used" then I was put back on the shelf.
@@pjmrees Same. “you play by your own rules” and the finally it was more like “on what planet is any of this ok?!?”
It’s a sad level of human brokenness.
I felt invisible with my covert narcissist. I could have stayed in bed all day or won a major award, it was all the same to him. Until he wanted sex or food. Really weird.
An absence sounds right, when I needed mum, she wasn't there and when I didn't need her she wouldn't give me any space to breathe. Now it's rages that are clearly plain to see and why I no longer wish to see her with me or my kids. She needs the men in white coats.
@@pjmrees me too
“Doormat covert narcissist” perfect description of my ex. He constantly put himself in situations to be “used” and when it would happen he wouldn’t interfere with someone taking advantage of him (like a property manager unfairly and unjustly tacking on extra charges etc). I was always so confused why he never spoke up for himself in those situations. I can’t watch this, I’m having ptsd return. I left too late and it cost me my health in a very serious way.
The neurotic reaction, the stress response you had while watching this video is the exact emotions you need to confront to begin grieving the trauma your partner inflicted upon you. Healing is painful, but freeing and you'll be far healthier and stable and less neurotic if you integrate your trauma into your conscious experience instead of trying to dissociate from it. Dissociation is the opposite of healing it's sprinting away from your affliction. You don't move away from the trauma but you move through it to heal yourself.
You'll cry, you'll make horrible pained noises and roll up into the fatal position and sob, it was very vaguely similar to a panic attack my own grieving process. But my emotions were released and I was healed and freed by the experience. It's going to hurt but you can heal.
Yes!!! After this 21 year relationship, my health has been jacked up!!! I have stayed sick over these years. I have been hospitalized about 10 times. Had multiple surgeries, sicknesses that were unexplainable. I am so angry with that man!!!! He is evil. He is wicked!! A cheater!! I have been diagnosed with CPTSD, Borderline and bipolar disorder since dealing with him!!! I pray daily that God restores my health and sanity😢
The sabotage!
I felt so stupid wasting 7 years of my precious life on “polishing the turd” that was the covert narcissist that I turned on myself and developed a serious autoimmune illness. I felt I couldn’t walk away from him because I didn’t want to admit to myself that my whole relationship was fake after putting so much of my effort into making it “work”.
You are not stupid, you were just dealing with inhumane eveil shity person. Be compassionate with yourself and maybe your illness with disappear someday.
I wasted 30 years
28
Try spending 35yrs!
Omw same here with the same disease and 13 waster years
You make it so hard to not feel bad for my abusive narcissist wife. I really don't want to leave her because I understand how broken she is, but at the same time I can't let her damage me any further. Such a conundrum.
He doesn’t do the choosing to stay or go .. you do. He’s simply giving valuable information.
Stop making excuses to stay with someone who’s slowly killing you.
Left a covert narc, its not easy man. I have reactive abuse before I left. I am weary walking on egg shells.
Leave
Chose youuu
@@kailaduke1799 Done. :)
Sam,
This is one of your best videos in my opinion. I am a covert narcissist and you have explained literally every exact detail of who I am and my experiences including the transference into a psychopath. Literally I am the “man” you are describing without ever meeting me with disturbing accuracy.
I am in a phase of finally transitioning into a psychopath. The main reason why I know it’s coming is not just the plotting thoughts about taking from the world as you’ve said, which I am doing. It’s the void is growing bigger.
I feel the emptiness inside myself becoming even more extreme than it was before. It feels unsettling. It’s like a hole in the ground that’s expanding and slowly swallowing me up.
My absolute desirelessness peaked last month where I truly desired nothing. Not even my clothes to be washed.
But it has slowly been being replaced with feelings of misanthropy. Disgust, repulsion and spite for society and humans in general. I see them all as users and liars and I want to take from them now.
My only motivation to do anything now is to take, legally but pushing it, not because I actually give a shit about the thing I’m doing or the money or cars or success I may have. I just care because it takes from society and the scum in it. Because it might wound ex partners or ex business partners to see my success. That’s my only motivation.
I used to be motivated by narcissistic supply. Primarily in the form of women. Now that supply has little to no effect on me at all. No supply really has any effect on me. Nothing fills the void anymore.
These videos are therapeutic, I know I won’t change. Maybe I’ll become a psychopath, def getting there. But I’m not going to ever be normal or healthy. You can’t gain a self when you don’t got one. It’s like being being born without an arm and going to therapy so you can imagine your way to growing it back.
Try marijuana, it’s natural.
I’m 23. God has an interesting sense of humor
Yeah.
You could try the cold therapy he developed. Allow yourself to be re-traumatized and then deal with the fear with guidance and realize you didn't die and you can handle your emotions. I guess you have to, in a sense, die so you can be reborn with the knowledge of what it means to be human. Best of luck my friend. I wish you peace and serenity.
@@minibuns5397 so is mercury
This video is terrifyingly accurate.....
Exact. Answers ALL the little things missing. It is haunting.
Yes and Sad
@@juli_gotshal the narcissist can not be healed. The victim has a hard time too.
Unfortunately you are right
@@tarekyoungapelian4542
The covert narcissist knows his limitations and vulnerabilities. He just won't share it openly.
Overt (classic) narcissists and malignant narcissists are a totally different topic to the covert (vulnerable) narcissists.
So brilliantly explained! The covert narcissist I know wasn’t even good at deceiving...just a very bad con artist. Just a black hungry hole that can never be fed. No contact is the only way.
I agree. Which is why i invented the "no contact" strategy in 1995.
@@samvaknin hmm great content!
black hole is exactly how i have always felt my husbands energy as. like he lives off my energy.
This would help explain the complexity of the covert. At times appearing like A borderline but not quite fitting, desperate for whatever they're missing, appearing pitiful and sweet at times, acting as an altruistic/communal narcissist to a ridiculous degree, then acting like a sociopath to get what they want, doing whatever it takes to be seen as a victim, going where the money is and the supply, however they can get it, rage simmering underneath and sometimes letting the rage fly.
Spot on.
I think the coverts are narcissistic introverted bordelines-npd+bpd
I don't completely understand all these labels...covert....overt....borderline....whatever....all I know is that my guy is a really f%#$d up individual......and that's all I have to say about it.....he is one hot mess......oh, and completely unpredictable and moody as the day is long...
He has made my life an absolute living hell......
@@louiseboyd8896 yeah in some ways what does it matter what label they have except for you to understand them better or in the rare case that they seek help, for the therapist
@@carrierobinson8046 unfortunately some therapists aren't very knowledgeable about the distinction between different types of narcissism
This was incredibly terrifying. I lived with a man for 5 years who was lovable, fun and bit eccentric or off. I was blind to the covert narcissism, he was always doing things for me and never fought me on any request, etc. When I finally broke up with him because of substance abuse issues I was literally blindsided by his anger and hostility. I felt he was psychopathic and this video has helped confirm my intuition and terror. It has explained what I didn't understand- how someone could go from the harmless doormat to an utter horror film (think the recent Joker movie) character. I never saw it coming. Thank you for taking the time to make this video and all your great work on youtube
I dont mean to take away from your experience,but I too was thinking of the Joker movie when I was going through this experience. Absolutely horrifying and always (for me) when no on else was looking
Substance abuse is a hallmark for cluster B
I lost track of how many Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde moments I had with him. It was so strange I just stood there thinking to myself “this guy has to be mentally ill to come up with stuff like this” just totally bizarre behavior
How awful! Yes, i met this academically highly intelligent guy who's a physician by profession, but at personal level after i got to know him a bit, he revealed himself to be someone who has absolutely no dignity, no self-esteem, no morals, basically careless and without empathy or self-love. Which was horrifying. He uses all kinds of self-prescribed meds and soft drugs to make himself feel better or to avoid having to deal with intimacy, and finally he revealed that he has been paying for sex and using prostitutes, and when i got extremely sad, horrified and repulsed by his revelation, he suddenly put this psychopaths mask on and tried to gaslight me into believing that there's something wrong with my beliefs because i could not accept his hobbies of using prostitutes. What a fucking nightmare! A doormat who's also a psychopath and has absolutely no boundaries or empathy to other peoples feelings. Gross.
It's not a breakup or divorce, but an attempt at your complete and total destruction.
Absolutely they will assemble a small army against you.
Totally. Terror was the only thing that kept me frozen to the spot the last years of that relationship, and I knew leaving him would be a fight for my survival.
@@0Demiyah0 it's not terror that traps you. Narcs like to isolate you an cut off all support structure you might have friends, family ect. Once that is accomplished get you dependent upon them. Once trapped well that's when they show who they are. They can trap through marriage, kids or financial. All about control.
@@levimahaffey2608 very well put! It was a bizarre experience, still making sense of it
And co-workers can try entrapment by sabotage.
So spot on. It took me years to figure out what was wrong with the man I’m married to. It’s this. I observed a switch. And I experienced the psychopath. And I experienced his mortification as his psychopath was forcing me to have sex with him. He said, “I’m not a rapist….”, and looked pathetic, but still continued. At the time I was extremely depressed and scared of him. He was acting really crazy. He’s back to doormat, but never again will I give him control over me or my emotions. I’m getting a divorce.
😢 mine did the same thing I started to tense up during sex to that's when I realized the love was finally dead. I cried it out after and 7 months no contact
This describes my experience exactly! 40 years married to the covert when he went into his psychopath mode. I left five years ago at age 70. Fortunately, I had a kick-ass attorney who understood who we were up against and I prevailed!! As you indicated, I have been listening to many you tube therapists, who have helped me but not to the extent of your videos. Very clarifying- thank you!
Woooooooooowwwww..3 yearssssssss was a total HELL FOR ME ON EARTH WITH A COVERT NARC..i could notttttttt imagine your 40 years of being MARRIED TO HIM..good luckkkk and happy HEALINGGGGGGGG FOR U..😊😊😊😊😊
Me 30 years and what a waste of time 😢
39 years...and now I have to get through the divorce.. wish me luck
@@alexandraschuetz40 It will be difficult, but hang in there and fight like hell! Even to the extent of constantly informing your attorney what you need based on what you know about the realistic behavior of the narc. Sending prayers and good wishes for a freeing positive outcome for you!💕
@@alexandraschuetz40
Book recommendation of I may: Divorcing The Narcissist Advice From The Battlefield (Tina Swithin) A must read. I follow med the advice written therein and also won full custody of the children.
1/2 of my life being played by a narcissist. I never left because I thought he would hurt himself and the kids would hate me. Finally asked him to leave, left, and committed suicide. I damaged myself and my kids for nothing.
1/2 of my life was a lie. And it makes me feel as if I had babies with a stranger.
I’m forever grateful to Prof Sam for validating what I knew to be true.
I feel you I just went through this.
@raquelmorales4419
I am so sorry, both of you. I don't know if answers can help, but wow...this explanation gives me a very different lense from which to see my covert's threats and also his constant comments about ferling so alone no matter who is there.
@Samvaknin, do psychiatrists have any help for someone going through this dance between primary psychopath and "doormat"? I'm watching this play out with my ex. I think I am honestly scared to go no contact. The choice of him or me is rife with a very real fear I will endure what Jenice and Raquel have here.
The best descpription of my ex, especially how he would provoke aggression/frustration and then afterwards you feel guilty for being angry at them. They have a way of making you feel sorry for them even when theyve been the biggest jerks. They can have toxic behaviour but because of their pity aura surrounding them you easily get blinded and distracted. These dynamics are hardly really understood out there even by professionals. You're always doing such a good job at exactly describing and understanding them. Thank you for your work, very much appreciated and I finally feel not alone and crazy!
I was with a guy and we had an argument and i went to bed and when I woke up and came downstairs he was sitting in the same spot like he hadn't moved the whole night. Just sitting there wide awake like he had been plotting my murder. It was creepy as fuck.
@rumba rumba You think that you can get away with crime in life. There will be something waiting for you that does not last 24hrs. It is forever. 🔥
relating to your comment hard, yes it is creepy af
Yup. Seen that one too. It's ridiculous and creepy.
Thanks for explaining how covert narcissist "reframe the story" when they get burnt to try to show they were in control of the situation. That was the one aspect I have observed with these mousy, vulnerable narcissists and it confused me until you explained it. A relative has ghosted me literally after being thwarted and frustrated in attempts to find and maintain higher social status.
This covert narcissist, I know cannot get over a homeless person that he met on the street rejected him and told him to go away and never talk to him again. He kept referring to how hurt he is about how he was treated by the homeless person months later. I tried to explain the homeless person obviously has his own problems, possibly some mental issues and not take it so hard that the homeless person spoke like that to him. He looked at me with astonished eyes as if what I was saying was so out of his way of thinking. Now I realise that this was because he is totally unable toT put himself in others shoes, lacking empathy for others .
The homeless person probably spotted his narcissism.
I dated someone like this. She appeared sweet, and caring at the beginning, but the whoa is me business soon became the norm. I thought I was just being supportive and patient. Then, she began disassociating occasionally she would become psychopathic after a few drinks or an normal inconvenience. I walked away from her and dating for a while to find myself again. It took years.
having a similar experience with a female (platonic) friend. . Something really off in the way she thinks. Everything is blamed on men, office conspiracies, etc. But she herself is actually very cold, until it suits her, and then it just feels forced.
“Lack of core”… such a critical concept to understand.
It takes a long time to really recognize this is the reason something feels OFF, even through the incredible love-bombing, where he invests all of his adoration on the victim as though she were a goddess.
I watched a covert narcissist morph into a primary psychopath after separation in our relationship for a year. This was the most terrifying experience of my life. I described it as an outer shell dominating the partner I had known for 20 years. The doormat woke up and reinvented themself as a sadistic dominatrix... fulfilling their need for control and sudo control. This occurred after re establishing a relationship with their sadistic narcasstic mother. You explained this phenomenon perfectly in my experience.
My mother had definite covert narc traits; always people pleasing but in a way that then gave her more reason to disdain and trash talk them behind their backs. As stated here she was engineering the people pleasing; for herself in order to nurse grievances and feel victimised. Towards the end of her life she may even have approached psychopathy when she began frequently exploiting a little known loophole in state consumer law to get refunds on purchases without returning the goods. In her dotage in her nursing home, she would consistently get the other residents's names wrong, and even this seemed like a smug form of superiority. It was very damaging and confusing to be raised by her and the "ambient abuse" took its toll. It was like escaping from sticky spider web to gain insight and understanding. Thank goodness for UA-camrs like Prof. Vaknin.
It's so true! He would always complain about being taken advantage of at work or by his family but when I would say do something about it, the switch would go on and I would experience the RAGE. Thank you Sam for sharing this incredibly insightful video!!!
My god! This describes my ex to a T. I'm shocked at how accurate it is and also want to cry.
As Dr. Sam just said, go no contact as soon as you feel something is off. I've wasted ten years with my ex and with it I lost my sanity, my integrity, and my will to live. He will cling to you so go no contact and don't listen to his pleads. If you do so, you might never get out of his terrifying labyrinth of hatred, envy, and passive-aggressive behavior. I wish I had any awareness of how a person could be that dangerous.
I am in the midst of trying to go no contact. We are married and have children. The kids are 6,4,2 and I know he uses them to get in with me and see me... he won’t go away. How did you finally end it
@@elizabethmccall2736 In my situation, I criticised him and called out his lies and facade using logic and evidence. I explained that I didn't think he was superior in any way, just deeply messed up and apparently less capable than average. I was very angry. Luckily, around that time, he was contacted by a woman on facebook who praised him for being the most amazing person and he became obsessed with making up a persona to impress her. I saw my opportunity to step away and raise my 8 year old son in the real world, so I played on my ex husband's good guy fantasy and managed to get him to move out of our house and have day visitation of our son, one day every 2 or 3 weeks.
So I got out when he found an ideal love interest, and got no more narcissistic supply from me. Narcissist are fairly easy to manipulate if you play on their egos, and if you have a very good reason, for doing so, such as protecting the mental health of children, then I think it's justified. Personally, if I were in your situation, I'd call him out for manipulating the kids and ask him if a good father does that.
He needs to know that he's not fooling you, that it's not worth his time, and that he looks like an idiot when he tries to. I'd assert my boundaries, hand over and pick up the kids at a public park nearby and refuse to make eye contact with him. Dr Sam did a video on this, which completely struck a cord with me in terms of what had worked for me, it was called something like 'How to destroy the narcissist in court'.
I wasted so much time with mine too. He walked out in November and has since tried to come back. I don’t want him back. I want to heal and move forward with my life. My husband is evil deep down. I hate I stayed with him so long. He abused me financially emotionally and mentally.
During those years did he constantly make up and break up with you while living together? Mine is doing that. We are broken up now but hes so lucky he even got a supply, he lost his virginity with me. So I think he just uses making up and breaking up to inflict pain and for supply but really has no intentions of leaving..as the Dr. said, they fear abandonment and many of them stalk.
My children were abused by my ex narc-hole when they were too young to speak (our children). Watch for "accidents" that occur while under his care. Injuries aren't accidental when a narc-hole is near.
All I can say is that something doesn’t seem authentic or genuine! So I can’t go back!
I feel that it's really so complicated trying to make it work.....and it is work....never much fun.....
The first understandable explanation of a covert narcissist and why they are confusing and exhausting. must be very exhausting to live as one.
The CN I was in a relationship for 7 years thought he had narcolepsy as he spent more time sleeping during the day than he did at night. I realise now it was all the scheming that exhausted him. I never thought I’d play a leading role in a horror movie...
@@sarahhewittrippon2853 CN here we do not spend our time scheming lmao the scheming part comes in after you’ve seen the psycho so you’ll know it’s happening
@@TheMinecraftShow97 if you are willing to reply, I'd love to hear if my thoughts on this are right. Is it the same for someone who is a narcissist as it is for borderlines, in the fact that at the time, you're unaware of your role in your pain? Like you truly believe that you're the victim and it's everyone else around you that is doing wrong by you? Or do you know deep down that you are the one with the problem (maybe not the only one obviously) and you just can't stand the thought of admitting to yourself that there's something wrong?
@@TheMinecraftShow97at what age did you know you were a Narc and do you love your family or don’t experience love at all ? Did you go to therapist to get diagnosed .
@maryc4463 I'm not him, but I guess I can answer that. For me, I knew that was something wrong with me, but every time I tried to go deep and find what, I kinda swift to my "psycopath mode" and automatically put all blame in ppl around me, thinking they raised me to be like this, or the were neglectly and that why I was like this, so they would deserve very thing I was doing with them.
Thank you for explaining this to the world. I interacted with a covert. I realized he was very dangerous, I saw evil on him. His face was distorted. He was very malice in the relationship. Gaslighting, cheating, evil tactics, mind games, etc. it was crazy how he acted very immature at 50 years old. It felt like he was a robot and he never took accountability for his actions and always blamed me. Total psychopath! I saw the transition right before my eyes. We work together and he stalks me at work. Sends his friends to say things to me but I don’t give any response....I just act like he doesn’t exist. No contact at all
You misunderstood this video
i would like to write some things that i have been through so you guys can see if something of those happened to you
when you met this person,it seemed like they have been wronged by everyone they met before,they have been used,lied to,and they have been manipulated and exploited,the covert seems to be a talented person,a helper a hero,a person who would give everything to keep those she loves safe and well,after some time you begin to notice the false modesty,they seem like a maintenance-less person at the beggining,but little by little you begin noticing the passive agressiveness come out when you act in some way that,they had not predicted,the next thing you will notice is how this person seems to always avoid,deflect,find some excuse for not being a good companionship,they dont want to help you when you need something,even if its minimal,it looks to them like a chore,the more time goes one the more intrigged you get,you need to gather information about this person to properly acess his or her intentions,so you begin asking questions,but as their false persona is only one inch deep,you begin to realize that the answers are fake,unreasonable,pure creation of their mind or they do not reveal information,what is on itself a way of lying,if you keep pushing for the true self(that does not exist ) the psichopath will come out,to protect the false persona,i disagree with doctor sam that the psicopath hates the humble fake person,on my view they both work together to keep the illusion,they refuse to take responsabilty for their own neediness and anger,they will try in all possible ways acuse you of doing this to them,the more time ou spend with this person the less intimacy you will have,since you can see through the fake personas and there is no core,there is no good inside this person,despite them looking broken and suffering from the outside,you have no power to reach whatever creature is sad and crying and suffering,you will never have acess to this,even they dont seem to have control over this,despite your attempts to help this person get better,they will refuse to come close,they will attack you,they will push you away in the most cold way ever,they have no empathy,what makes me wonder why they would complain from suffering,and sadness,when they seem to not be able to use their own body and mind to stop it or to put themselves in a better position,they are literraly like watching their own lives from outside,from a distance,after some time you learn all about the fake person,it will look like a cartoon character,also something else i noticed,their false persona seems to be many times incompatible with their own age,many older men/women have a fake persona who is many years younger then they actually are(probably because of the failing reality test,they cant upgrade it ) they look like automated machines just acting with no knowledge of the reason why,that is quite scary,they many times dont seem to possess memories of anything,even if they studied in a field for 20 years,or worked at some nice job for 10 15 years,it seems they have never talked about that in the 4 years you have been togeether with this person,many of them also are unable to have dreams,or if they have they dont remember(this is from my experience only ,nothing scientific) they seem to have body dismorphia,they dont acept either aging or changes in looks,as if they are lamenting the loss of their younger self,the same way you would lament the loss of a cellphone or a piece of clothing,it looks almost as if they dont identify as their own body,as if they were outside,and their body was a gadget,what is also frightening to watch,they also have time lapses in my view,they may go 3 or 4 years without talking to you and when you see them again they will talk about the most random thing they know about you,as if it was yesterday,many times even you wont remember what is that they are talking about,they never process information about you or the situations or anything,its just like a person who owns a library but never reads a book or learns anything,they just pick up a random book and read it,for what i have seen they dont even seem to have a inner voice,or an ego who reflects,learn and so on,they will make the same mistakes 20 times and still seem surprised every single time
Everybody has an inner voice but i guess in the covert narcissist, it probably comes to conclusions but like you said due to the no learning effect, just forgets about it, pushes it away
I wish this was written in a readable manner. Could be useful. This way it only hurts my eyes.
DAMN THIS IS ON POINT🎯 GOOD GRIEF💯 MY LORD. Utterly Shocked! My heart was racing listening to the accuracy of this....They make the woman fall in love with a totally mirage...when it starts in honest, she realizes he conned her to fall in love with a fake ....OMG!!!!!!! DECEIVED AND LIED TO.. SHE Then is ANGRY, hurt, in pain, AND UPSET BECAUSE She Realizes how gullible she was, how fooled she was!!!!!!!! OMG OMG OMG
I saw all of these signs, KNEW something wasn't right, I was even able to pinpoint some of the traits, but didn't discover, it had a name, until after it was over. Wow.
Love your videos Sam, so incredibly true, but I loved my covert for 30 years in spite of his anger outbursts, complete neglect of all family relationships, secretiveness ect because I knew of his childhood trauma and I knew nothing about narcissism . I left when I realised he has betrayed our marriage and refused to take responsibility . My children and I were “dying” inside and because he did not want to seek support and lacked complete awareness of his impact on all of us, but he was so loved, he just pushed us all away .
Fransina: I hear you100%. Same situation here.😱
Still here 39 years later but now there’s the grandchildren. Not everyone understands how hard it is .... especially when you know that he was so abused as a child... he sabotages all the time and I feel so sad for him!
Omg....I feel your pain everyone......I too have experienced a similar scenario.....
That's so sad. My covert Narcissistic partner is so loved as well! But like his Dad yelled at him over the phone one day "You push everyone away!" We do love them but it hurts so much when they finally sabotage. If there was just some way, some breakthrough treatment to help them my God how amazing that would be.
You do the leaving.. that’s the breakthrough. Staying.. especially with impressionable kids around.. continues the cycle
My sister is a covert narcissist, and my brother has borderline and our mother is a narcissistic sociopath. Thought I was completely crazy due to their erratic behaviour - until I took a dna-test... my siblings are half-siblings.
I’m from a yours mine and ours family, I’m the ours and baby!! Although I didn’t know what a narcissist was, still learning about it myself
The intelligent covert becomes the best analysis machine ever to exist.
Lol ….. I know what your talking about.
Yeah.... And now i feel lost. Like I'm trying to understand how to fonction "normally". I think I'm getting better at it but sometimes i wonder. I look back and i can clearly see that i definitely was this way in my early twenties. I'm sad because i don't wanna hurt people but sometimes I might still have reflexes I'm not aware of.
@@ahlala6 Sounds like your doing the right thing , taking your own inventory. Make amends . You’ll end up stopping before hand so you don’t have to do the amends ….
😁
This resonates with me so much after being married to a covert for almost 18 years. I've never heard the doormat term, but it really describes him well. This sheds so much light for me. The song that always reminds me of my experience with him beginning to end is Self-Esteem by The Offspring. These are emotionally empty, lonely, non reciprocal and damaging relationships. The relationship is transactional at best. It's quite sad. It felt like a business arrangement.
@Janel Casady please help me understand this a bit more please. I've been stuck for ten years. Starting to think maybe I need to be better, maybe I'm asking for too much. Please help. Thank you.
My sister is a sociopathic narcissist and a heartless cruel monster..
I survived 18 years with one and when the mask came completely off I was devastated, there were many red flags throughout the entire illusion we call a relationship that I brushed off. she convinced another man to marry her and I hate the fact that he too will have to experience such a relationship
Yes. The alert was on! I always knew that he was disconnected. That's the best way I could describe it. Even in pictures he looked so disconnected.
very scary to see this.
WOW! You have just explained this in a way no other has even come close. This is the more informative than anything I've ever read, heard or watched in the whole 9 years of research on covert narcissism. You have opened my eyes! Thank you so much!
Thank you! I have walked away. Dealing with this trauma is the hardest thing I have ever encountered in my life.
I am going to have to listen to this more than one time, and take notes. There is a lot in here that makes sense out of several questions I have had about someone I know. Thank you!
These videos have helped me so very much. I has a borderline mother, which I only found about from my therapist in my late 40’s. I am now healing with a 88 year old uncle from the same side of the family and he is almost driving me crazy. Even though I have had so many years of therapy…I am not able to disconnect from the relationship, as he is in charge of a lot of family money and I am the only family member left and am charge of taking care of him at this stage of his life. I am at my limit of coping with this distinction. These videos have been very helpful. I am hoping to keep it together until the end….So very triggering and almost impossible for a 59 year old woman whom is balanced from extreme dysfunctional family dynamic from years ago having to be confronted all over again is almost torture. A human can lonely take so much dysfunctional torture, however, I have not much choice given protecting family financial legacy- it’s almost not worth it…
I'm not dating anymore there's too many psychosis out there. Every guy I meet seems to crazy...I'm out 😅
That is when I have learned to look inward. Something inside you/us attracts them.
Or you are attracted to toxic people, while non-toxic people are invisible to you.
This is BRILLIANT. The most insightful account of covert narcissism I have ever come across and has described my partner of nearly two decades to a tee, it also describes why I am scared to leave him. He is the SWEETEST man that you will ever meet in a way that seems lovely but really he is absent and he doesn't seem to get pleasure out of life unless it somehow involves me. He will also do ANYTHING for me until he switches and then the other person comes out.....
Omg when you describe the feeling of realising that there are other processes going on in his brain and the hrs spent trying to prize one of those doors open to no avail. This subject is more complex than l ever could have imagined. Thank you for describing so eloquently what l went through and how it has changed my life completely in terms of how l see personality disorders in general. It seems most teenagers l see these days are all displaying these characteristics and all on meds 😢 So sad ... All we can do is educate ourselves and heal one generation at a time
I’m married to one. Only this one week now do I realize this. For 26 years of confusion, lies and coldness trying to find a way to fix this. Not wanting to go out on my own. Yet thinking that this is so bad that we should not be together. He has managed to convince me that I can’t make it on my own. I’m fearful that he is correct and bow down to do his wishes. Keeping the peace so that we can live together in misery for me, but for him it appears a smug contentment Not showing any emotions. And so it goes around and around. Lonely, heartbroken, trapped, angry and sad. My attempts to approach him for discussion about these things is met with severe “punishment”. Like if you thought this life stinks-try this!
Now that my eyes are open I am thinking there is very little chance of any thing getting fixed. Asking for us to go to a counselor also has proven to be a big mistake.
To learn about narcissistic behavior is very difficult. I’m feeling physically sick and know that I need to take action. See a counselor on my own, pray a lot and get real smart.
Dr Vakin, i just spent 3 months in isolation because i cannot trust myself round others. Everything you said about the passive narcissist is true. What i have decided to do is focus on the positive aspects of myself and avoid toxic people. If someone is being toxic i just stay calm or walk away, because i know about the psychopath side that gets triggered. At work i believe that someone knows what i am are are deliberately placing me in stress both inside of work and outside of it. Another words someone like yourself is trying to trigger my MPD, the protection, the hard shell, the reaction. Now i know myself i can start enjoying life again. Great channel, thankyou so much, like a weight off my shoulders. Off to play golf and relax and have fun. I have been self medicating with alcohol for 3 years. Drinking less, have a plan for the future finally.
Vaknin.
@@samvaknin Thanks Sam, have a great Sunday. Remember that Alexander the Great was capable of sacking Thebes while sparing the lives of Royals in places of the countries he had captured. He started off by unifying Greece by wiping out an entire city but having conquered other lands he had then hand over loyalty by converting the people in charge to go work for him. That's 2 million square miles controlled by a man in his 20's. Question is, in your opinion what do you think his personality type is ?
“Weariness pity revulsion and contempt” is exactly how I feel for my covert narc EX, strangely though, all of his “people” think that of me it seems and like I’m the bad one. I am a codependent borderline woman with a mother who is a histrionic yet covert narcissist, I think your videos have helped me to gain the insight I needed to have the “efficacious” control that is so lacking typically. I still struggle but your videos have helped me when I have wanted to act out. So true we (borderlines) do ALWAYS act out, even if not toward others it will be onto oneself.
Question for Sam Vaknin on the point of the narcissist having a cloud, rather than a core. Most non-cluster B people seem to have a sort of reservoir of positive feelings. By this I mean if they experience good luck, good fortune, or some other form of serendipity, the sensation of pleasure seems to linger beyond the moment of acquisition. For example, if a boss who is normally stingy with compliments tells a non-cluster B that they did a good job on the recent project, the non-cluster B has a positive feeling for the rest of the day, and beyond. And this holds true even if there is a bit of bad luck later in the day, like a flat tire or mustard stain on a favorite shirt.
The narcissist, on the other hand, seems to lack this reservoir. They certainly would appreciate the compliment, perhaps more than the non-cluster B, because it represents both validation for a job well done AND narcissistic supply. But the slightest bit of adversity, even five minutes later, sends the narcissist into a tizzy, or even rage. Is this related to the difference between a cloud and a core?
My ex to a Tee . Made me very poorly and my nervous system went crazy . 5 years of crazy . Now no contact forever
I literally stood up and clapped for you when the vid got over, Vaknin. What a talk!
Lmfao
This is one of your best videos Sam.
I agree it's like he knew the person you were dealing with, true!
My ex was a mix of covert and cerebral narcissist...after 5 years I managed to finally get away after many attempts of trying to leave and being hoovered back...I alwsys thought he was bipolar until one dsy I sae a video on UA-cam on narcissism....Its been 18 months now and I am beginning to become myself again...Its a long road to recovery..When I left I was an empty shell, no confidence, no self esteem, absolutely broken..thankfully my family gave me so much support..
It’s extra scary when the covert then seems to study ( after being accused of covert narcissism… ) and memorize behaviors or words to try and gaslight you further that it is all you.. and then … he still shows up. He can not hide who he is, but they can get smarter. The jacked up state they have imposed on you/you allowed your self to be in makes this harder to escape once you realize, it draws out the exit much longer than is healthy for any of you.
The deeply insightful way, you’ve described and explained, doormat covert narcissist, truly deserves an award of the highest level! Sam thank you for your tireless and abundance of amazing work! You are a blessing. 🙏🏼💙💚💜💗
Almost everything you said matches what I've observed with my covert narc sibling. He is manipulative, but it's all "trial and error". He refuses to be in new social situations where he can't manipulate people or conceal who he is.
I wholeheartedly agree with merging all Cluster B personality disorders into one category. It just makes sense that way, particularly with severe cases. I've seen my covert narc's illness morph and worsen over time.
My God this is mind-blowing. It is like you were in my relation with us. After 4 years, a while a go i spoke to him and i told him that he painted me a person at the begining, but at the end i discovered he is like snake. Just to lie, cheat, flirt, hide.... And he never said the truth. About anything. Even if i was asking me if he is raining outside, he was telling me that is raining, just to get rid of me and to not ask him anything. I was warching your otherd videos and he somehow didnt fit, but now when you talk about the covert, it is him!!! Always calling and asking:do this, bring that, do for my sister, bring my brother.... All his relarives he put them on my back. And if i dared to not do it, inediatly he was geting agressive and start to fight and was telling me: remember this, because ill not forget it and you will see it later! Once i told him that even the wall understands more than him. And if i wanted to discuss anything about us, he was telling me: oh come one, it is not important, let it go. He has a hair dresser, and he flirt with all women there, and he told me that he likes to make them run after him and when they like him, he ignores them. This makes him feel important.
There is no depth, he is withdrawn. I felt very very lonely around him.
You are spot on. He is nice can be warm and gentle but he is disattached. He ghosted me, I felt like I am dying inside. No sex no need for interactions. He slowly sycked the life out of me. He would give me money and not care less what I do with it. Very painful. He undermined me as a mother, he made me a very angry, frustrated person. I would lash at him just to get his reaction but there was nothing there.
Yup ...and lashing out is the worst because then they torture you with ignoring until they turn it off
This is a perfect description.. I have never heard, read or watched a better video on this topic.
Holy shit.
I wish I could say this is refreshing information.
It is just so baffling to me that anyone could describe him as if they knew him the way I knew him.
Nobody can see what I see, and nobody believes how true it is when I try to explain it.
"He is such a nice dude. He can't possibly be like that."
I have to live with the death of my own soul, and people think it is a lie.
If trust and empathy will never be repaired, then I'm screwed.
I really like your research based knowledge, its calming to listen to you. It made me aware of the limited and the emotionally fueled misinformation I was consuming of some of these self proclaimed experts. Hope you keep posting.
Same. Many of the other channels (so-called experts) leave me feeling confused, scared, trapped. Dr. Vaknin makes sense of it, which is calming. While I don't have hope for my relationship, I do have a little hope for myself and breaking free of my own behaviors.. and stop attracting/dating/working for narcs
Rings true for me. My significant other was a physician until he destroyed that. He was very much as described, I can pick food and shows and what we did for nights out etc. It was like he didn't have an opinion, or didn't care one way or another. Being a physician however he had females always coming on to him so he had access and opportunities typical shy covert narcs would not. He had substance abuse issues that came to light. He literally did everything wrong to lose it all, each decision made was clearly the wrong one. Somewhere along the line I saw a change in how he treated me. Passive aggressive is the exact correct term for him, never confronted but always undermined. It's like loving a shadow, they're there with you but missing some particular feature that makes it feel like a comfortable relationship. I had wonderful years with him but wonder how much were calculated by him and if the whole time he was in there unhappy and acquiesced to things and became resentful. What a confusing relationship.He also played the victim always, it was never him in any negative interaction with anyone. No self awareness.
I'm not a narcissist, but having a personality that seems to crave some adoration I can't help but to see some part of me in these descriptions. It absolutely isn't me to the degree that these behaviours are in a pathological narcissist, and it isn't something I'm not able to let go off, so shining a light on it feels healing. It's something to reflect upon. To some degree, I think non-narcs can gain these features in their personality when living in a narcissists world, like an imprint of their bleak world view. I find it especially important to remember to live fully and to feel fully, to embrace the negative emotions and especially grief relating to people. Trying, or pretending to be untouchable is not a mature behaviour. Human beings can not never fail. If you're never failing it's very probable that you are not trying.
Everyone has narcissistic traits, it’s a spectrum.
@@ArtsCraftsAntiquity Everyone has a Jungian shadow, true.
@@an8790 these aren’t just traits that you cannot see in yourself, some narcissism is healthy (in an evolutionary survival of sense) like the need for praise and admiration, a sense of entitlement is an expectation of people treating us well, fantasizing about dream partner/job/house etc is totally normal, but what separates healthy narcissism and disordered narcissism (I believe) is the behaviors attached to these traits, Narcs don’t care about other people at all unless they are supplying for their constructs.
There were some things I do that he mentioned, specifically the indifference when I am being hurt.. I have been numb and pushed a lot of people away
FINALLY someone that makes me understand the mechanisms behind it! you're right about a lot of the info out there.
You really know what you're talking about, else you wouldn't finally make any sense in the jungle of click-baits :D
"...if they made it happen, then they *made* it happen. They started it; they controlled it." I've noticed how so many narcissistic traits fall into what a cult (with which I'm very familiar) promotes and implants into members. This cult forces narcissistic thoughts and behaviors on members and gets them to believe that they, as individuals, cause every little thing that happens to them. It is the hive mind at its finest. When I left the cult, a breakthrough was realizing that some things that happened to me were not caused by me. Accepting that truthfully I could be the Effect (sometimes even a victim) rather than always the high and mighty Cause of everything.
Hi Mystic Fiddler, had the same thing happen to me. Was in the Church of Scientology. Which cult were you in?
Thank you Sam...this provides me some insight into some puzzling recent experiences with a covert narcissist who was my best friend for 3 years and then suddenly attacked and discarded me. It isn't a good feeling to know I was fooled all that time...because I gave her time, skills, and work in the illusion I was being a friend.
My closed friend covert narc for 1 year twisted my word and gaslighted, triangulated our common friends to turned their back against me. All friendship was destroyed and I was discarded from the group of friends.it is so devastating and heart broken.
And finally, I CAN understand what happened to my husband....
Professor, I was able to detect what you have stated! and as awful as they create themselves to be, whatever they endured prior, must have been even worse., but at the end, it becomes unbearable to live
with a person, which even at an advanced age you can't detect a possible change.
Thank for the clarity of your expertise!
I endured years of him breaking me down and alienating me from our children by being the “nice” parent - he refused to be a responsible parent, and he was their bestie doing their chores, and comforting them because mom was mean, and angry, and punishing. When I finally asked for a divorce, he said, “If you think I’m passive-aggressive now, wait until you try to divorce me.” He delivered by alienating my youngest child from me. Parental Alienation is spousal abuse and child abuse. ANY fight against shared parenting time in a divorce is the red flag one parent is a narc bent on destroying the other parent and using the child as a weapon.
Everything that has been talked about here is my next door neighbour's profile. In fact he has ruined my life, & I have had to involve the police against this psychopath stalker. If I had more money, I would have moved a long time ago. Now he is going through some negative karma, after what he has done to me, but in his mind he can't see where he went wrong and keeps blaming me for his actions..
Well done! Thank you. 👍
"Doormat covert narcissist turns primary psychopath." Great title, I believe that this was portrayed in Breaking Bad. Walter White was a covert narcissist who became a dark triad.
How was he a covert narc? How did you come to that conclusion? I haven't seen it since it came out, but it's not how I remember it...
@@lisam4594 It wasn't blatantly said but it was implied through his behavior and history. Like how he should have been extremely wealthy but was cheated, or at least perceived as such, by his peers into selling his stock.
Also, while he was slightly depressed early in the show, it only seemed to really be pity for himself, not his family. But I don't know for certain, that's only my interpretation.
@@louisfedders7903 I just saw him as a person who's tired of life. Not uncommon for mediocre routine lives of USA.
@@lisam4594 That too, most definitely. Most of us can relate to a degree.
I used to have a friend who acts like a doormat to people to get close to them and then finally takes over everything. Right when it is time, he strikes and goes totally disloyal.
This is one of your best videos. ⭐⭐⭐ You are a Genius! You have just confirmed my ex of 7 years. I couldn't pinpoint what was wrong but from the very beginning I knew there was something off. And it felt malevolent but his actions showed the exact opposite. My intuition was right all along 😔. I got my closure because of your precious information, Sam. Thank you for your work & wisdom. 🙏🌻 Bless you 🦋
My "younger" sister was the last one left at home. She was 5yrs old when I left home+ took little brother with me. She was alone with 2 narcissists for parents. One a habitual drunk+ the other popping valiums+ gambling. I can imagine what she went through. I am the scapegoat.
This is actually incredibly sad
Dies it make you hate the narc more or less? What would you do if you met one?
I agree, it's a bottomless pit of sadness and futility.
Just makes me feel sick to my stomach.
Thank you very much, Sam. This video-article is really interesting and thought-provoking. As always, amazed by your intellect and ultimate precision!
Wow- You did an awesome job explaining this! Wow!
The moment I knew I had to sever all ties was the moment I heard her say my name and felt it was covered in ice.
Very much I appreciate these lectures Professor Vaknin. I remain teachable, great full to be in the audience of intelligent discourse.
Professor Sam, I just want to let you know that I have been educating myself about this since I am currently and I have just discovered that my boyfriend is a covert narc, and after all the information I went through and videos,; your channel and this video has summed it all up with a deep explanation and illustration of what is going on with these narcissists. I want to thank you for being generous to educate the public about this and your time and input invested in these videos.
Thank you and all the respect to your knowledge and your thought process. Thank you!
It explains why growth and evolution never last. His "bad habits" would improve somewhat over time, then some bad news would come to him, then he'd snap back to black - he was never showing/living through his core. Whereas non narcs learn from their mistakes, or see the silver lining, and things get better somehow because the non narc can not afford to hurt their one and only core. Dr. Vaknin you are the only one who has been able to answer all the why questions which have kept me stuck for years. Thank you endlessly. I am waking up from a sick dream - as you also said, it's hard to accept that you have lived as a fool. It's been 16 days since he vanished and I am moving on with your help. I hope it does not take a long time to separate and individuate, and wake up into the world again and be present and adventurous like I was before. I barely know where to start, but I am trying. I look forward to your lessons.
I can appreciate how he brings these personality disorders to life with all these different scenarios and examples.
Brilliant man. Have you made a video that explains that due to the "Black and White" thinking, the Coverts hates you if you did the discarding? And always comes back in his cycles only to destroy you?
Every word about a covert narcissist is absolutely perfect. I have voiced every word to my Ex. Without really knowing that I was with one. I have shown him a mirror all my life, without realizing his mental state. But I got very Sick and have still not recovered physically. What can I do to recover physically from this imbalance. My intuition told me something was wrong but I did not listen to my instinct. I also had no place to go as he distanced me from my family and I was not financially independent.
Me right now.
"There is a limit to what any human being can tolerate, including narcissists. Many of them are human beings."
Didn't expect to have a good old belly laugh when I started watching
I caught that too lol...wonder what the rest of them are??
You are absolutely amazing I’m so glad you go so in-depth. I knew something was wrong with me but you’re the first person to explain it to me. I am a covert narcissist I didn’t know or maybe I didn’t look hard enough but I’ve been searching and stumbled upon this and it’s like a light switch came on.
I pray for your healing so you can experience the true depths of love and connection as God intended. 🙏🏼
Like it’s so simple. You’re no narcissist, probably an assshole.. but no narcissist
Jekyll (doormat) and Hyde (psychopath).
Sam (sigma) Hyde (based)
The details in your explanation simply magnificent 😍❤️🌹 brilliant as usual Mr. Sam
So accurate he stole from his own grandma..They think their life is some kind of movie
Another insightful “Vaknin at his Most Brilliant & Articulate” video.
The N who used to be in my life would always say that he was successful (up to a point) because he was willingly to take risks that no one else would take - professionally and personally. But he also would say that “at a certain point everything would collapse like a House of Cards” and he would have to start everything all over again both professionally and personally.
My N told me that he lived in a constant state of panic and anxiety because he never knew when everything would collapse and he’d had to re-invent his life completely, usually even moving geographically, by abandoning everything he’d worked so hard to construct in favor of a “fresh start”.
Until I experienced it firsthand *exactly as Vaknin describes* - grief cycle, caution/wariness, repulsion, pity, contempt, loss of any hope that it could change - I didn’t realize that his romantic/intimate relationships were a House of Cards, too, just waiting to implode as I discovered the Underlying Truth about him.
This video helps explain the internal and external machinations of N lifecycles, self-delusions, and the inescapable whirlwinds of abuse that swirl inside & around him.
My father is also an Covert Narcissist and he also had similar behaviors: often changing wives, changing residences, building new business models... this happened dozens of times and it remind me of King Sisyphus - who was punished by Zeus every day to push the rock up the slope. When he reached the top, the rock slid down again and he had to push it up again. It's like a curse.