I really cannot remember the last game I quit because of complexity or difficulty. But I quit a lot of games because of boredon, because I am just not having fun or interested enough by what the game is presenting me.
The complexity has to be presented well, if you’re left with no idea what to do or how something works, and you also don’t know how to learn it, it can make me just want to play something else. A lot of us aren’t kids anymore and don’t have as much time and dedication to video games. Not saying that you are a kid or anything, just sharing.
@@thememelord6510 I agree with you, and agree with the video too. I was just reporting my particular experience about the topic of "quiting games due to their difficulty", but that might be more because of how patient and picky I am about difficult games than anything else. Anyway, our arguments could easily fit together; I remember right after the release of Red Dead Redemption 2, one of the biggest criticisms I saw about the game was how long and slow everything was. A lot of people who had little time to play dropped the game because riding a horse to the next mission point and talking to the people in the gang already consumed all the available time, and at the end of the day the feeling was that the player have done nothing. Red Dead Redemption is an example of a game that I stopped playing because it was boring, and so did other people, people who, like you said, aren't kids anymore and didn't have time for it.
Same. I dropped Monster Hunter World because of border. Found the game rather easy with the crutches but that's not why I dropped it. It's the amount of rng time sink they want you to put in. That and the constant menu animations, grinding lands end game, rng decos (which are very important to builds), tenderizing, cutscenes, rng weapons from Safi, just a lot all coming together to waste your time.
I will never understand this logic, I just keep playing until I get good at the game. BUT!!! what you did was the correct option, taking a break is important because your brain and hand muscles get better if you give them time to recover.(Sleeping helps too a lot) About the JRPG part, the beauty of JRPGs(that a lot of people dont understand) is that not grinding is the secret Hard mode.
Honestly I am replaying persona 3 fes and when I got to the 3rd tartarus boss, my party members were kinda useless (because of artificial stupidity and Yukari being vulnerable to Zio spells when the boss had Mazio, though luckily he wouldn't get 1 mores off her) but they bought me just enough time to settle into a rythm of slowly keeping my defense buffed, healing myself, recovering SP on occasion and slowly whittling the enemy's HP down. It was a nailbiting exchange where any crit could spell doom for me, every dodged attack was a minor victory and when-in the end-I decided to attack instead of repeating the buff defense-heal-attack cycle as a gamble to win the game within the next round rather than after the next 4 or so rounds, the fact the attack landed legit gave me a small high. Meanwhile I couldn't tell you one gameplay bit of persona 5 where I felt anything remotely that close. Again, I like 5 quite a fair bit, but it's not for the gameplay. The one wall in the game I found extremely frustrating for lack of the necessary items to beat (which were in no way telegraphed as potentially crucial when they really are) is pretty universally considered the worst boss in the game, and the only points I felt even remote elation were when I found my old hand favorite persona (Melchizedek) available to fuse, when I had to fight solo in the Arena and sweeped and when I realized I almost accidentally made a crazy damage build on Metatron. So yeah, it's crazy just how much a difference difficulty can make in a game being memorable or not.
I agree with everything except your definition of vertical and horizontal progression, most people agree that “horizontal progression” is when a game lets you unlock different things that change your current play-style or give you another one, but doesn’t necessarily make you stronger compared to the other thing
I myself don't quit games often (I moreso say I'm taking a break, usually due to a lack of interest at the time), but there have definitely been times where I found myself stuck doing something too difficult. It feels more annoying than challenging to me. Often there is an aspect to what it is that I'm doing that in my opinion takes away from what is supposed to be a challenge. An attack that's hard to react to and unpunishable, getting stuck in a loop of stuns, watching your character die without being able to do anything. These things frustrate me deeply, and get me to turn the game off. Typically though, it gets better after a night's rest. I will go back into it, and not care as much about winning, which strangely allows me to perform better.
Appealing to a wider audience isn't always a good thing cuz if you're always trying to appeal to the largest audience possible that severely limits whatever game you're working on because they'll be some things you can't put in the game because it would offend a wider audience.
Imo the perfect example of this for me is in MGS Peacewalker. There was a section where you need to survive getting electrocuted by button mashing. For most games button mashing sections are really easy but not this game. There was simply no way for me to progress because i couldnt move my finger that fast. I was forced to abandon the game because of this. It wasn't even a "skill" check, it was a thumb dexterity check and I didn't have it.
Nice video thanks. I think 'difficulty spike' is worth mentioning. I think that's what you faced and what game designer should avoid or at least avoid letting happen on accident
The pronunciation of Juarez killed me lol I hate the way they told you the solutions in God of War: Ragnarok... it made it almost pointless to have a puzzle
I really dislike it when games give a difficulty option, it kinda undermines the achievement of grinding through the game on harder difficulty. I think it is fine if there are unlocks in the game which require you to play on the harder difficulty but i would really appreciate it if gamedevs would just balance their game around one difficulty which is then the bar that players have to overcome. Harder difficulties should be unlocked after that. Also most of the games i quit in recent times were too boring or didnt hold my attention.
Really great video, i remember when i first played enter the gungeon and coundt get past the third floor, after around 30 attempts i just gave up and moved on. After some time i saw that gungeon a new update and i decided to give it a second chance and became quiet good at it.(Also i feel like the nekopara sitting on your backlog of games hit me way too hard, bcs i completed it for the sole reason that i had it in my game backlog aswell)
The recent games I quit were Hollow Knight and the Diablo 2 Remake. For Hollow Knight, the backtracking and wandering aimlessly got way too much for me even though I love Metroidvanias. All other aspects of that game were great but the backtracking just made me not want to engage with it further. For Diablo 2, the skill system seemed interesting but in the early game you can't experiment with it due to reaching roadblocks to have your stats as high as possible to get further into it. In my eyes, difficulty changes based on my interest. If the game requires me to do specific things that are difficult but it seems fair or I was engaged enough with the rest of the game, will probably continue on with it. Issues start when the game either doesn't have that hook or does not explain the mechanics well enough. I think difficulty options would be great for this so if someone isn't good at a game they can learn the mechanics at an easier level then transition up to harder challenges. If a game just starts out with a brutal challenge and expect players to overcome it, it needs to give the players good reason to press on or a way to get accustomed beforehand.
Interestingly enough, I have never quit a game (at least in recent memory) because of a skill issue. I would only quit a game if the story was a letdown at a certain point - or worse, left me completely uninvested in the story because of poorly handled writing and/or characters. Thus, the only two games I have quit in recent memory are Cave Story and Ni No Kuni II... Honestly, remembering my experience with those two games still pisses me off.
i think one example of a game gatekeeping progress through stealth segments or rhythm game segments, i do agree that needing too much skill can be bad but you can improve over time to get over that gate, also it's best to take breaks cause it gives a way to rethink your strategy (also ggs on getting through that duel at the end :) )
3rd boss cell was tough for me in Dead Cells thanks to developers they made the custom mode. 2 months progress was 2 boss cells. But in custom mode it was easy. Unlimited Ammo, 11 mutations, 50000 gold , all legendary items rest of campaign was completed in just 2 days. After finishing the ending I still play but not in custom mode. It is a good casual game too.😂
I think what a good hard game/mechanic makes is to be clear Make clear what the player has to do in a paticular section, this could be done in showing a special colour or spot (example zombie games with weak spot that to extra damage), making a area around a mechanic (example: a Dungeon in Zelda titles) or have the basics shown in a tutorial and progressively making them harder and more advanced
I can never get behind these kinds of advice cause to me it just reads as "hey developers! Compromise your vision and hold back on the game you want to make so you can get more Cash!" I love your content but this is the exception
When I started playing devil may cry 5 about a week ago, I was pretty bad at the game, and died to the goliath bossfight, because I was more used to ultrakill's fast paced weapon swapping and complex movement, but over time I got the hang of it, because I realized that yes: devil may cry is not ultrakill. it may have inspired ultrakill, but it is not the same. I learned that for moves that prompt you to press "back to forward" you have to press back to forward and THEN attack. practice makes perfect, like how you eventually figure out that you can't use judgement cut end until vergil's concentration (the blue bar that circles around the health and devil trigger bars) is at 2. I referred to the game's skill menu so I could see what the current character I was playing as was capable of at the time, and I referred to it a lot before I could get the combos I could have now. Heck, I didn't even know to mesh the summoned swords combos in there until I saw some youtube videos which showed them and how much they add to the style meter. when it comes to skill based games, its about the motivation. if a game throws absolute BS difficulty (like a secret boss or something) Then that's when I gotta take a break, then come back and just keep practicing. there are times when I'll admit when it was likely the game's fault, like ultrakill's second prime sanctum which introduces enemy encounters before bosses, primarily heavy enemy encounters, and invincible enemies where the idol (thing making the forcefield) is in another room and forces you to go through multiple more encounters to break it, and even then you have to kill the thing it was protecting. that is a lot for people to understand, even for people who like a good challenge. that's something you can't prevent by looking at and managing all your keybinds, or checking out all your moves and looking at guides, when for devil may cry you are likely able to do all that.
The last game I quit playing was Warhammer 40K boltgun I liked the combat in the game but it was very easy for me to get lost finding out where to go next until eventually I got lost in a very dark room and it was so frustrating I stopped playing even though I really liked the combat.
Yeah, that's a bugbear off the retro boomer shooter back. For what it's worth, it might help if you choose one wall to stick to and follow that. It's how I beat Doom back in the day.
Loved your video. I could relate. You brought up some great, balanced points about git gud vs accessibility. I’m 43 & trying to get back into gaming cuz my 9 year old son loves it. I’ve enjoyed the Shantae games, Streamwood dig games & Diablo. They remind me of the stuff I grew up with on the NES/SNES but without the brutal difficulty. I’m trying to get into more modern 1st/3rd person,3D/open world games but have given up many times on many games. While I know a great deal of that is on me & I need to put in the time to get better…a part of me is also like…the developers put a lot of time, money & energy into games…why wouldn’t they want it to be accessible to as many people as possible? You made good points about how some devs implement accessibility well, in a way that doesn’t make the game painfully boring for more seasoned players. I hope more games in the future will follow suit with such features or add them in patches. I watch tons of review videos before buying games & have passed on so many at the mention of difficulty as an inherent part of the game design ( just not my thing due to my skill level) or uneven difficulty spikes. Thanks for the killer content! You just got a new subscriber. I’ma go try & git gud, peace!
I drop games because I usually get to play one hour a day on my commute (anything else takes time from friends and family, other hobbies or sleep), and feeling like I wasted a week of play time for no progress sucks. Some of these games (Dead Cells among them) I love and would play more with more time available, but that just isn't the case for me at the moment.
As a gamer who grew up with the 8 bit Era of unfairly hard games.. I see the difficulty issue being the majority of gamers being overly accustomed to games not forcing them to learn and grow to succeed.. From software games for example, they aren't hard , they just force you to learn and grow though failure, which is quite rare within the industry anymore
Similar to Furi and Doom Eternal in that respect. In Furi many new players will just attack the boss at any time just to then get countered and beaten by that boss, it forces you to wait through the different attacks to get to the obvious openings, with more openings once you understand those sequences and timings. Especially for the swordsman who you can never hit twice at a time, if you try to be greedy and rush things you will be firmly planted into the ground. In Doom Eternal the marauders are hated by so many, but you need to learn quick switching in order to beat them, which is the strategy that you will then use for the entire game because its really strong. Its a solid roadblock, but once you know how to get past it the ENTIRE game opens up for you. That said both of those games are good examples of being forced to learn, many games try to do that and just fumble the ball.
Look, if agree they aren't among the hardest games of all time, but anyone genuinely saying from software games aren't hard is a fucking lier, or has really weird standards as to what counts as a hard game.
Fromsoft games are not hard, they are just frustrating because you need to adapt bad movement controls and you are just forced to do things that make zero sense like running to the boss room for 30 seconds while spamming dodge to avoid atacks after everytime you are dead in a bossfight and that doesn't make games hard, this makes games just annoying to spend some time to get good. This problem is not present that much in sekiro and elden ring i finished these games with ease but older dark souls games doesn't have the quality of life aspect that keeps me to try getting good. AND BIGGEST PROBLEM IS PC TECHNICAL PROBLEMS, WHY 60 FPS LOCK FROMSOFT ?
there's a good reason most game don't force players to fail. failing is generally not fun, and players don't want to fail, nor do they want to be forced to redo content multiple times. "From software games for example, they aren't hard , they just force you to learn and grow though failure" This statement doesn't prove that those games aren't hard, it just gives an explanation of something that makes them hard.
@@owerpovered3330Fromsoft highlights issues many other single player games have. Like a lack of options, and no practice mode. Losing souls on death should be optional. I only get stronger because I'm good at the game, but being weak (lvl 1 runs) is proof of how good I am it's ass backwards.
Dota 2 and Star Craft comes into mind League is faster (reaction skill) but if compared to the amount of micros. It's night and day difference Dota 2 and Star Craft are daunting to learn. Also one of the reason why League lapped them on the amount of users
Hey, I'm pretty new to your channel, I started playing Dead Cells back when the first crossover update released and I was really bad at the game, so bad that I couldn't even get past Concierge, so I kinda just quit. A while later, one of my friends got into it, so I decided to get back into the game as well since I didn't want to let them beat the game before me. After a bit of grinding, I got pretty good and even managed to get to 2BC but then I got stuck there a while. Around this time I watched one or two of your videos and only recently in June/July I really got into watching your content and I even made it to 5BC. I honestly like these documentary style videos that aren't just about DC, and I hope this works out for you. If you keep grinding, you may get videos that blow up and maybe even get to make a living off UA-cam. Good luck! P.S. if you want some help with Terraria, I got you
Talking about quit momments That has happened to me with Celeste, on its final stage Well, it very much is skill issue, there's no denying in that, as I simply didn't want to take many hours to complete a section Or getting ALL sides... anyhow anyhow, I still very much enjoyed that game and it's one of my favorite indie platformers
The first thing that came to mind with the "easy mode popup" part was the gladiator fight in Doom Eternal. Unless I'm forgetting something, that was the first time the game offered me the sentinel armor. Was weird seeing "you can use this to make the fight easier if you want, I won't hold it against you" turn into "please use the sentinel armor, it hurts watching you do this to yourself". Or at least that's how it felt. It was, like, 4AM when I was doing that fight, and I'm pretty sure I was entering some kind of fugue state.
I quitted diablo 2 multiple times.I always get frustated with a certain boss or i endup not liking the build i made and there is no way to reset your stats.
I remember when I briefly quit Dead Cells because I couldn't beat the 3rd boss cell. I came back when they added assist mode. Because of that, I managed to beat all the boss cells. In doing so, Dead cells became my most played game.
You're supposed to dodge that dual wielding dude.... But game,you never told me or indicate that I'm supposed dodge in a duel! You put emphasise on flashy gun play as your strong point and then just doing that feels odd. That's like forcing the Doom Guy to go stealth against one particular boss.
I've left many games incomplete, specially chill games like Stardew valley and story of seasons, but that's more like just stop wanting to play the game than sheer skill check. Sometimes I try to go back to them and I get this weird feeling similar to leaving a puzzle half solved, go back to it and feel completely lost but confident in that, if I were to start all over again and reach this exact same position, now I could continue. ... One game I'm a little sad for not being skilled enough to beat it is Frogun. It's a neat 3d platformer where you have a grappling hook to traverse certain areas. One level per world there's a "race" level, where you are timed and there's no checkpoints. These are definitely my least favorite levels, and just so happens a lategame (therfore, long) level of these also has a lot of midair grappling sections with bottomless pits... It's so easy to die and so disheartening to lose after surviving a such lengthy gauntlet... Still, I wouldn't say my overall experience with these games is worse for not making it to credits. I've also left a lot of games for being bored or annoyed of them and want yo never see them again. Regardless of it happening early or in the post-game, it feels a lot worse than not being skilled in that particular kind of game.
You forget that I get turned away by games if those 'hey here is easy mode' or 'let me skip this for you' dialogs constantly pop into my vision. I do not mind giving options to players. but I do want to be able to turn those hints off completely. Yes, I do want to try some sections until I passed them, without getting asked to skip them every few trials.
The only game that i remember that i stopped playing because of difficulty was ghost of the babe in Jump King. I really liked Jump King but after playing over 15 hours and being on (i think) 4th-5th map, i didn't ragequit or something, just one day i thought that i don't want to waste more time on not getting anywhere. But except Jump King i always at least got to the ending of the game or something
Yeah... I absolutely loved Jump King because (for the majority of the game) the jumps were consistent. In ghost of the babe however, the entirety of the Bog changes your jump mechanic, it doesn't help that you get sent back down to the bottom WAY more often, I got to the House of 9 Lives but after falling one too many times I quit the game and never came back.
I see a lot of people in the responses saying that they never quit because of difficulty, but because of games 'not being fun' for them anymore or not enjoying the grind, as though those are mutually exclusive from difficulty. There have been plenty of games that I've walked away from because of the difficulty, and plenty of games that I've pushed through the difficulty to complete them. I think the last game I've walked away from was Total War: Three Kingdoms because of the difficulty spike that comes when the three thrones are set, and I've pushed through all of the 'main' soulslike games (all Darksouls, Demonsouls, and Bloodborne) other then Elden Ring and Sekiro. I could push through and finish the 3K campaigns I've abandoned, despite the increase of difficulty. I have the ability to do so. I just don't find that increase of difficulty fun. I haven't played the newer soulslike games because I'm not finding the memorization that's required in those games fun anymore. What each person finds fun is different, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with finding fun in beating your head against a brick wall (figuratively) on a difficulty or skill check, just like there's nothing wrong with walking away from that brick wall to find something else you enjoy. Personally, I'd much rather there be ways around the brick wall that players can take instead of just telling them to walk away if they can't get through it with their forehead and tenacity. Games should be, first and foremost, _fun_ for everyone playing them.
Last single player game I quit was vanilla Skyrim because of the inclusion of the difficutly slider and bring able to fast travel to places I had never even been yet, both of them immersion killers. Like playng around with Skyrim mods though.
Pseychie you are a man of culture. On the topic tho, it was quite interesting! I like the new video-essay style videos you make. Will you still make Dead Cells videos from time to time?
To generalize, I quit most games as I come to a point were I am not able to continue. I try a few times, then move on. I am too old and lacking the patience to try 100 times. And I am playing since the late 80s... so I played a lot in my life. The only exception: Dead Cells. +600 hours, because I can chill after a work day and do not mind the repeat.
I rarely, rarely quit games, and I love difficult games. Dead Cells, Curse of the Dead Gods, Darkest Dungeon 1 and 2, but - The Last Spell - I just burnt out on the game at the very last biome.
It should be fun and entertaining even if it is too much skill or just 1 skill. If it is not fun then it is boring for me and I will quit. I like Gran Turismo and Dead Cells.
10:40 it depends on the context. I've met newcomers to games I enjoy who are aggressively opposed to the very core mechanics that define it, have Dunning Krugered themselves into constantly arguing with everyone else when something they're doing wrong isn't working, or just plain display contempt for the original playerbase for whatever reason. New audiences are good, but they have to respect the core tenets of whatever it is they're coming into
I don't really think every game should strive to reach the widest audience possible. Honeslty, that can often lead to sacrificing what made the game appealing to its niche fans in the first place. However, some games _do_ manage to appeal both to their niche core audience, while also appealing to the wider mainstream audience. Elden Ring is a perfect example of this, since it greatly rewards both vertical and horizontal progression greatly. The whole game can be beaten without leveling up at all, but you can also overlevel yourself and grab a fully upgraded weapon. before you even fight the first boss. The game doesn't have a difficulty slider, but it subtly lets you control its difficulty in various ways. It's the perfect way to let newbies enjoy the game without pissing off the hardcore fans.
This video is helpful from the POV of an indie dev that wants to make a commerically successful game. It usually won't make too much money or get to popular if it leans into a particular playstyle too heavily and cuts off a lot of potentual players. However, the real gems of the indie game world do exactly this. Obra Dinn asks you to do a hell of a lot of logical deduction. The whole game is basically pure skill. Yet that game had become a cult classic and a staple of the detective genre. Any kind of luck factor would make it so much worse. Outside of money, devs don't have to try hard to get a large playerbase or guarantee play retention. You can still make a critically acclaimed game even if you didn't think it would line up with many people's interests.
the game that i most recently quit was dark souls 2. i’ve played through and love every other from software souls-like (haven’t played sekiro yet tho), and i’ve played them several times. something about ds2 just isn’t clicking with me like the other souls-like games. it should be noted that my fav game of the series is bloodborne, and its gameplay is the antithesis of ds2.
Actually most of the time, I try to finish the game at least once, so I can write it off, and this way I have a full view on the game experience from the beginnning to the end. The few times I drop a game is for quite an important reason. The quality of the game itself. I highly value a good story in an RPG. With this in consideration, try playing an MMORPG and read every possible dialogue, book and other fluff. You immediately notice the drop in quiality compared to other non-MMO RPGs. That is why if I ever try one of these, I immediately drop it for low quality content. I know that it is more about the endgame content and stuff, but the road there has to be interesting, at the least. Other game I remember is Genshin Impact, specifically because of the need of grind for better characters. The game is not about you, but about the randomness of the drop. Don't get me wrong, the game itself is amazing, gameplaywise. If not for the gacha aspect, It would be worth a lot more of my attention. After all, in my view, the games are pretty much about you, because you want to play it and enjoy it. In the end, It all depends on what you want from the game. If an active approach that requires your own growth to beat the game, or a laid back style, that is what reviews and gameplay videos are for. You can check what you are getting. And nothing is stopping you from trying the game for a few minutes to just try it out if it suits you, Steam has refund mechanic for just this reason.
The last game I quit was Enter the Gungeon. Love that game, but sometimes the game just hands you a fucking L the entire run. Also I always wait ages between playing so I get out of practice with dodge rolls.
I love touhou lore, music, and characters in general. But man is it difficult to get into, I feel so noob being unable to finish a game in super easy without using continues to get the ending. A similar thing with fighting games, it's frustating. Also rhythm games, I got good but it took months and years, those games you have to be dedicated if you wanna get somewhere, if not you'll be stuck on very easy. And yeah, I got to 4BC in dead cells and by that I felt good enough because I already put hundreds of hours doing the first levels and bosses just to die on the late game. Maybe someday I will keep trying until I get to the ending
I stopped playing LoL lately. Last time I wanted to leave the game my friends were laughing because I was ,,too bad to play". Got mad, got to diamond in like 2 years and finally quit lately. I just didnt have fun
last game I quit was rhythm doctor the unique mechanics felt unfair and very unfun to learn, such as your whole game lagging on purpose but you still have to keep the same beat maybe it's just my PTSD with lag, but yeah it was more frustrating than anything so uh, *begone*
Last game I quit was Cyberpunk 2077, I wanted to try a shooter for a change, but the overall game bored my to death, glitches and bugs didn’t help to maintain my interest. FPS games are just not for me I think.
What? You mean actually create an engaging and immersive experience within your games instead of appeasing elitist keyboard warriors? But how will they show their gamer points for upvotes? (Well spoken vid tbh)
One of the most satisfying part of video games is overcoming challenges, why do you think soulslikes, roguelikes and metroidvanias are all so popular, overcoming difficult boss fights after dying multiple times is more satisfying than endlessly progressing in a game that has no challenge
I quit a lot of games because I lose a bunch of progress. Nothing demoralizes me more than playing a game for an hour and then losing all that progress because I didn't save and the game has a trash autosave system.
Last game I quit was bl2. The three playthroughs and the tedious level cap grind on zer0 was exhausting. I got to uvhm on axton I think I was at the ghost king boss fight trying to get the grognozzle when it hit me that I still have 4 characters and 13 playthroughs. Shortly after that I quit and uninstalled the game. I felt I saw all I needed to see didn’t really care for the endgame 2 offered and I know people like to say “but the story is so good it’s worth 18 playthroughs” dude no it’s not. Just getting one character to max level made me really hate the story it felt less like an experience and more like just a big roadblock. Maybe if I was 15 again when I had to burn I’d be singing a different tune but yeah. Bl2 is definitely for me but it just demanded way to much dedication and I’m sorry bl2 fans but the story alone is NOT worth 18 playthroughs.
This is what I am feeling with Noita at the moment. Wonderful, very interesting game but oh boy does it not tell you *anything*. Where are you supposed to go and why? What are you supposed to do there and how? In Hades and Dead Cells for an example, the goal is clear: progress through biomes and kill bosses, kill final big bad boss and you win. Apparently Noita has a big bad final boss to kill and you need to go down to get to it but it is also open world and you are meant to experiment and discover. As to how you are meant to do that in a game where it is not hinted to be possible and it is seemingly discouraged by low survivability and fully RNG based build making, I do not know yet, but I will hopefully come back to it and find out.
Its a VERY good thing to take breaks and then come back to something later. Sure banging your head on a concrete wall can lead to you busting through it (also more often getting brain damage or falling unconscious), or you could come back later with a fresh mind that made you realise you own a jackhammer. The number of times I've failed and then immediately tried again vs times I've failed, taken a break and then retried, proves to me that the latter is far more efficient.
For me it was genshin impact because as soon as I reached ar40 I started noticing that the gameplay was becoming well.. repetitive and some what annoying to me.. though this is my opinion
Gacha games are like that because they want to build up a habit and slowly get you to spend money. At around ar 40-45 Is where it hits the heaviest though. Its only for people who either like the grind or find what to do other than just endless grind (something like coop or something else) And trust me. The repetitive grinding hits harder with two accounts on AR60 xD. however I play cause I like minmaxing and seeing big numbers on screen so yea, its about the player and if he likes it or not xD
unironically genshin is inaccessibly easy for me. I straight can't enjoy anything in regards to its gameplay for how low difficulty it is, even though I enjoy the atmosphere and visuals. It always smacks me of hilarious when I hear this exact same line of arguing to justify something like an easy mode for dark souls when my response is simply "oh well, glad others enjoy it".
Opening example is just poor game design. It’s what makes Dead Cells great for allowing you to practice against and boss or enemies you have encountered. I just got to the last boss in Dead Cells, died obviously as it was my first time… now I can practice.
1. Im glad the video is short and concise. 2. Call of Juarez is a great game 3. YES you should absolutely have taken a break. Always take breaks when gaming, as it 100% increases enjoyment 4. I quit Elden Ring : I had trouble dealing damage to a few bosses with my mage build. After a few hours of trying to " get good" i gave up . I then went exploring for ages in many dungeons and ONLY found melee stuff. I got mad and quit. I quit Axiom Verge 2: I got a descent way in ( about 3/5 completion) . However the map and compass were bad and i got stuck for at least 3 hours. I got bored and quit. I watched playthroughs for bith games afterwards and felt like not much fun was lost 😅
I mean it's ok to the game developers to make the game really hard but give the player the time to improve his skills like Celeste or maybe Hollow knight and many other, and great video I really like this new content .
When i first played rogue-likes, especially with scaling difficulties, even if i try my hardest, I've always been stuck at the first difficulty for MONTHS, until i took a rest for a few days, then i ZOOMED right through from 0-3 BC in Dead Cells without even getting hit ever💀
Last game I quit was like 2 days ago, Monster Train, mostly because it felt like an unbalanced version of Slay the Spire. had a good idea but the fact your basic starting spells do 2 damage when the very first miniboss you ever face has 100 hp just felt cheap
The last game I quit playing was Persona 2 Innocent Sin, just because it felt repetitive after a certain point and was so convoluted that I had to look up a guide, which just means that the game isn't fun for me.
Last game I quit playing was bioshock. I’ve tried to play it three times and I just can never really get into it. It’s fun for 2 or three hours but after that it feels so incredibly repetitive. Aim and click, aim and click, aim and click, guns don’t feel unique, combat isn’t very engaging, the same 4 enemies appear the whole first part I could be bothered to play, and there was such an abundance of the magic system that lets you use cool powers they just didn’t feel very special or powerful. I just couldn’t enjoy it after three separate tries with months in between each attempt.
I enjoy the grind to ‘get good’ or to level up my stats to beat the next stage of progression, and then challenging myself with harder difficulties, or specific build types. Really the only reason I quit games is they just aren’t fun anymore, or are just to laggy (subnautica).
I feel like you mixed difficulty for simply bad game design. Sure bad game design sometimes leads to difficulty but they are not the same. My favorit example for bad game design for a boss is Gamov from ninja gaiden sigma. That boss can infinitely shoot at you without any breaks slowly draining your health while blocking and that makes the boss difficult but in the same way winning the lottery is difficult. Well thought out difficulty can be scaled infinitely and is usually really fun to go up against. Take any multiplayer game as an example of that. Plus the conclusion that all games would stream themselves out for withermarket appel will just result in most games becoming bland and just computing over who has the best actionset piece. Elden ring tried to within the appel of fromsoft games and I would argue the game is much worse for it.
Last game I quit was Elden Ring. Not that it was overly hard. There is just nonsense of direction, no idea what you are supposed to do, no markers on the map, and it just wasnt fun.
Having skyscraper level of skill cap shouldn't prevent you from enjoying the rest of the game. It's fun if some players can get a sense of satisfaction, but it's also frustrating if some players that don't care about it can no longer advance in the game.
Рік тому
It was an ok video but I expected more. I think summarizing everything with the "quit moment" was oversimplifying. Also, if you take in regard Daniel Kahnehman's "Type 1" (fast, intuitive, reaction-based) and "Type 2" (slow, high level, rational) of thinking, it's obvious that there are also two kinds of skill (for example, a turn-based game will almost exclusively use Type 2), and I think differentiating them in this context would allow you to explore this issue deeper.
![How To Make a FIGHTING GAME In Godot! [Complete Course]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gtrOIQtnJmI/mqdefault.jpg)
I really cannot remember the last game I quit because of complexity or difficulty. But I quit a lot of games because of boredon, because I am just not having fun or interested enough by what the game is presenting me.
The complexity has to be presented well, if you’re left with no idea what to do or how something works, and you also don’t know how to learn it, it can make me just want to play something else. A lot of us aren’t kids anymore and don’t have as much time and dedication to video games. Not saying that you are a kid or anything, just sharing.
@@thememelord6510 I agree with you, and agree with the video too. I was just reporting my particular experience about the topic of "quiting games due to their difficulty", but that might be more because of how patient and picky I am about difficult games than anything else. Anyway, our arguments could easily fit together; I remember right after the release of Red Dead Redemption 2, one of the biggest criticisms I saw about the game was how long and slow everything was. A lot of people who had little time to play dropped the game because riding a horse to the next mission point and talking to the people in the gang already consumed all the available time, and at the end of the day the feeling was that the player have done nothing. Red Dead Redemption is an example of a game that I stopped playing because it was boring, and so did other people, people who, like you said, aren't kids anymore and didn't have time for it.
@@thememelord6510I usually just youtube the game and watch a ton of videos, tips and tricks, 10 best beginners tips or how to do something.
Same. I dropped Monster Hunter World because of border.
Found the game rather easy with the crutches but that's not why I dropped it.
It's the amount of rng time sink they want you to put in. That and the constant menu animations, grinding lands end game, rng decos (which are very important to builds), tenderizing, cutscenes, rng weapons from Safi, just a lot all coming together to waste your time.
I will never understand this logic, I just keep playing until I get good at the game. BUT!!! what you did was the correct option, taking a break is important because your brain and hand muscles get better if you give them time to recover.(Sleeping helps too a lot)
About the JRPG part, the beauty of JRPGs(that a lot of people dont understand) is that not grinding is the secret Hard mode.
True, the amount of times I’ve woken up and had the best run of a tough boss is unreal
Honestly I am replaying persona 3 fes and when I got to the 3rd tartarus boss, my party members were kinda useless (because of artificial stupidity and Yukari being vulnerable to Zio spells when the boss had Mazio, though luckily he wouldn't get 1 mores off her) but they bought me just enough time to settle into a rythm of slowly keeping my defense buffed, healing myself, recovering SP on occasion and slowly whittling the enemy's HP down. It was a nailbiting exchange where any crit could spell doom for me, every dodged attack was a minor victory and when-in the end-I decided to attack instead of repeating the buff defense-heal-attack cycle as a gamble to win the game within the next round rather than after the next 4 or so rounds, the fact the attack landed legit gave me a small high.
Meanwhile I couldn't tell you one gameplay bit of persona 5 where I felt anything remotely that close. Again, I like 5 quite a fair bit, but it's not for the gameplay. The one wall in the game I found extremely frustrating for lack of the necessary items to beat (which were in no way telegraphed as potentially crucial when they really are) is pretty universally considered the worst boss in the game, and the only points I felt even remote elation were when I found my old hand favorite persona (Melchizedek) available to fuse, when I had to fight solo in the Arena and sweeped and when I realized I almost accidentally made a crazy damage build on Metatron.
So yeah, it's crazy just how much a difference difficulty can make in a game being memorable or not.
sleep buff is real and amazing
"not grinding is the secret hard mode"?
Seems like _someone's_ trying to justify bad game design :/
but yea other than that you're right on!
@@vc101 it literally is, there are some exceptions like the first dragon quest that needs grind
Nahhhhhhh the start though 💀 Pseychie Who's the best girl in nekopara at least for you?
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I agree with everything except your definition of vertical and horizontal progression, most people agree that “horizontal progression” is when a game lets you unlock different things that change your current play-style or give you another one, but doesn’t necessarily make you stronger compared to the other thing
I myself don't quit games often (I moreso say I'm taking a break, usually due to a lack of interest at the time), but there have definitely been times where I found myself stuck doing something too difficult. It feels more annoying than challenging to me. Often there is an aspect to what it is that I'm doing that in my opinion takes away from what is supposed to be a challenge. An attack that's hard to react to and unpunishable, getting stuck in a loop of stuns, watching your character die without being able to do anything. These things frustrate me deeply, and get me to turn the game off. Typically though, it gets better after a night's rest. I will go back into it, and not care as much about winning, which strangely allows me to perform better.
Appealing to a wider audience isn't always a good thing cuz if you're always trying to appeal to the largest audience possible that severely limits whatever game you're working on because they'll be some things you can't put in the game because it would offend a wider audience.
I dont think he is saying to make all-ages games that even babies can play
If you get offended by a game then I do not know what to tell you
Imo the perfect example of this for me is in MGS Peacewalker. There was a section where you need to survive getting electrocuted by button mashing. For most games button mashing sections are really easy but not this game. There was simply no way for me to progress because i couldnt move my finger that fast. I was forced to abandon the game because of this. It wasn't even a "skill" check, it was a thumb dexterity check and I didn't have it.
I has to connect two controllers and mash it with a help of someone else
That part was hell
Nice video thanks. I think 'difficulty spike' is worth mentioning. I think that's what you faced and what game designer should avoid or at least avoid letting happen on accident
The pronunciation of Juarez killed me lol
I hate the way they told you the solutions in God of War: Ragnarok... it made it almost pointless to have a puzzle
I really dislike it when games give a difficulty option, it kinda undermines the achievement of grinding through the game on harder difficulty. I think it is fine if there are unlocks in the game which require you to play on the harder difficulty but i would really appreciate it if gamedevs would just balance their game around one difficulty which is then the bar that players have to overcome. Harder difficulties should be unlocked after that. Also most of the games i quit in recent times were too boring or didnt hold my attention.
I love the evolution of this channel. After watching a lot of DC the improvements in your videos are amazing. Love your content bud
Really great video, i remember when i first played enter the gungeon and coundt get past the third floor, after around 30 attempts i just gave up and moved on. After some time i saw that gungeon a new update and i decided to give it a second chance and became quiet good at it.(Also i feel like the nekopara sitting on your backlog of games hit me way too hard, bcs i completed it for the sole reason that i had it in my game backlog aswell)
The recent games I quit were Hollow Knight and the Diablo 2 Remake. For Hollow Knight, the backtracking and wandering aimlessly got way too much for me even though I love Metroidvanias. All other aspects of that game were great but the backtracking just made me not want to engage with it further. For Diablo 2, the skill system seemed interesting but in the early game you can't experiment with it due to reaching roadblocks to have your stats as high as possible to get further into it.
In my eyes, difficulty changes based on my interest. If the game requires me to do specific things that are difficult but it seems fair or I was engaged enough with the rest of the game, will probably continue on with it. Issues start when the game either doesn't have that hook or does not explain the mechanics well enough. I think difficulty options would be great for this so if someone isn't good at a game they can learn the mechanics at an easier level then transition up to harder challenges. If a game just starts out with a brutal challenge and expect players to overcome it, it needs to give the players good reason to press on or a way to get accustomed beforehand.
Interestingly enough, I have never quit a game (at least in recent memory) because of a skill issue. I would only quit a game if the story was a letdown at a certain point - or worse, left me completely uninvested in the story because of poorly handled writing and/or characters. Thus, the only two games I have quit in recent memory are Cave Story and Ni No Kuni II... Honestly, remembering my experience with those two games still pisses me off.
i think one example of a game gatekeeping progress through stealth segments or rhythm game segments, i do agree that needing too much skill can be bad but you can improve over time to get over that gate, also it's best to take breaks cause it gives a way to rethink your strategy (also ggs on getting through that duel at the end :) )
I love how the background music is FTL and Crypt of the Necrodancer
3rd boss cell was tough for me in Dead Cells thanks to developers they made the custom mode. 2 months progress was 2 boss cells. But in custom mode it was easy. Unlimited Ammo, 11 mutations, 50000 gold , all legendary items rest of campaign was completed in just 2 days. After finishing the ending I still play but not in custom mode. It is a good casual game too.😂
I think what a good hard game/mechanic makes is to be clear
Make clear what the player has to do in a paticular section, this could be done in showing a special colour or spot (example zombie games with weak spot that to extra damage), making a area around a mechanic (example: a Dungeon in Zelda titles) or have the basics shown in a tutorial and progressively making them harder and more advanced
the satisfaction of beating a hard level or boss is some of the best feelings ive ever had in video games
That's why we play hard games - for this amazing feeling.
I can never get behind these kinds of advice cause to me it just reads as "hey developers! Compromise your vision and hold back on the game you want to make so you can get more Cash!"
I love your content but this is the exception
When I started playing devil may cry 5 about a week ago, I was pretty bad at the game, and died to the goliath bossfight, because I was more used to ultrakill's fast paced weapon swapping and complex movement, but over time I got the hang of it, because I realized that yes: devil may cry is not ultrakill. it may have inspired ultrakill, but it is not the same. I learned that for moves that prompt you to press "back to forward" you have to press back to forward and THEN attack. practice makes perfect, like how you eventually figure out that you can't use judgement cut end until vergil's concentration (the blue bar that circles around the health and devil trigger bars) is at 2. I referred to the game's skill menu so I could see what the current character I was playing as was capable of at the time, and I referred to it a lot before I could get the combos I could have now. Heck, I didn't even know to mesh the summoned swords combos in there until I saw some youtube videos which showed them and how much they add to the style meter.
when it comes to skill based games, its about the motivation. if a game throws absolute BS difficulty (like a secret boss or something) Then that's when I gotta take a break, then come back and just keep practicing. there are times when I'll admit when it was likely the game's fault, like ultrakill's second prime sanctum which introduces enemy encounters before bosses, primarily heavy enemy encounters, and invincible enemies where the idol (thing making the forcefield) is in another room and forces you to go through multiple more encounters to break it, and even then you have to kill the thing it was protecting. that is a lot for people to understand, even for people who like a good challenge. that's something you can't prevent by looking at and managing all your keybinds, or checking out all your moves and looking at guides, when for devil may cry you are likely able to do all that.
The last game I quit playing was Warhammer 40K boltgun I liked the combat in the game but it was very easy for me to get lost finding out where to go next until eventually I got lost in a very dark room and it was so frustrating I stopped playing even though I really liked the combat.
Yeah, that's a bugbear off the retro boomer shooter back. For what it's worth, it might help if you choose one wall to stick to and follow that. It's how I beat Doom back in the day.
Loved your video. I could relate. You brought up some great, balanced points about git gud vs accessibility. I’m 43 & trying to get back into gaming cuz my 9 year old son loves it. I’ve enjoyed the Shantae games, Streamwood dig games & Diablo. They remind me of the stuff I grew up with on the NES/SNES but without the brutal difficulty. I’m trying to get into more modern 1st/3rd person,3D/open world games but have given up many times on many games. While I know a great deal of that is on me & I need to put in the time to get better…a part of me is also like…the developers put a lot of time, money & energy into games…why wouldn’t they want it to be accessible to as many people as possible? You made good points about how some devs implement accessibility well, in a way that doesn’t make the game painfully boring for more seasoned players. I hope more games in the future will follow suit with such features or add them in patches. I watch tons of review videos before buying games & have passed on so many at the mention of difficulty as an inherent part of the game design ( just not my thing due to my skill level) or uneven difficulty spikes. Thanks for the killer content! You just got a new subscriber. I’ma go try & git gud, peace!
I drop games because I usually get to play one hour a day on my commute (anything else takes time from friends and family, other hobbies or sleep), and feeling like I wasted a week of play time for no progress sucks. Some of these games (Dead Cells among them) I love and would play more with more time available, but that just isn't the case for me at the moment.
As a gamer who grew up with the 8 bit Era of unfairly hard games..
I see the difficulty issue being the majority of gamers being overly accustomed to games not forcing them to learn and grow to succeed..
From software games for example, they aren't hard , they just force you to learn and grow though failure, which is quite rare within the industry anymore
Similar to Furi and Doom Eternal in that respect. In Furi many new players will just attack the boss at any time just to then get countered and beaten by that boss, it forces you to wait through the different attacks to get to the obvious openings, with more openings once you understand those sequences and timings. Especially for the swordsman who you can never hit twice at a time, if you try to be greedy and rush things you will be firmly planted into the ground. In Doom Eternal the marauders are hated by so many, but you need to learn quick switching in order to beat them, which is the strategy that you will then use for the entire game because its really strong. Its a solid roadblock, but once you know how to get past it the ENTIRE game opens up for you.
That said both of those games are good examples of being forced to learn, many games try to do that and just fumble the ball.
Look, if agree they aren't among the hardest games of all time, but anyone genuinely saying from software games aren't hard is a fucking lier, or has really weird standards as to what counts as a hard game.
Fromsoft games are not hard, they are just frustrating because you need to adapt bad movement controls and you are just forced to do things that make zero sense like running to the boss room for 30 seconds while spamming dodge to avoid atacks after everytime you are dead in a bossfight and that doesn't make games hard, this makes games just annoying to spend some time to get good. This problem is not present that much in sekiro and elden ring i finished these games with ease but older dark souls games doesn't have the quality of life aspect that keeps me to try getting good. AND BIGGEST PROBLEM IS PC TECHNICAL PROBLEMS, WHY 60 FPS LOCK FROMSOFT ?
there's a good reason most game don't force players to fail. failing is generally not fun, and players don't want to fail, nor do they want to be forced to redo content multiple times.
"From software games for example, they aren't hard , they just force you to learn and grow though failure"
This statement doesn't prove that those games aren't hard, it just gives an explanation of something that makes them hard.
@@owerpovered3330Fromsoft highlights issues many other single player games have. Like a lack of options, and no practice mode. Losing souls on death should be optional.
I only get stronger because I'm good at the game, but being weak (lvl 1 runs) is proof of how good I am it's ass backwards.
Dota 2 and Star Craft comes into mind
League is faster (reaction skill) but if compared to the amount of micros. It's night and day difference
Dota 2 and Star Craft are daunting to learn. Also one of the reason why League lapped them on the amount of users
Hey, I'm pretty new to your channel, I started playing Dead Cells back when the first crossover update released and I was really bad at the game, so bad that I couldn't even get past Concierge, so I kinda just quit. A while later, one of my friends got into it, so I decided to get back into the game as well since I didn't want to let them beat the game before me. After a bit of grinding, I got pretty good and even managed to get to 2BC but then I got stuck there a while. Around this time I watched one or two of your videos and only recently in June/July I really got into watching your content and I even made it to 5BC.
I honestly like these documentary style videos that aren't just about DC, and I hope this works out for you. If you keep grinding, you may get videos that blow up and maybe even get to make a living off UA-cam. Good luck!
P.S. if you want some help with Terraria, I got you
Dark souls 2 bc i didn't know what to do, no iconic characters and shit controls for m&k
Two words gentlemen: Forced Stealth
Pseychie your videos helped me beat 2bc and 3bc this week! Thank you!
Talking about quit momments
That has happened to me with Celeste, on its final stage
Well, it very much is skill issue, there's no denying in that, as I simply didn't want to take many hours to complete a section
Or getting ALL sides... anyhow anyhow, I still very much enjoyed that game and it's one of my favorite indie platformers
The first thing that came to mind with the "easy mode popup" part was the gladiator fight in Doom Eternal. Unless I'm forgetting something, that was the first time the game offered me the sentinel armor.
Was weird seeing "you can use this to make the fight easier if you want, I won't hold it against you" turn into "please use the sentinel armor, it hurts watching you do this to yourself". Or at least that's how it felt. It was, like, 4AM when I was doing that fight, and I'm pretty sure I was entering some kind of fugue state.
Loving these vids man!
I quitted diablo 2 multiple times.I always get frustated with a certain boss or i endup not liking the build i made and there is no way to reset your stats.
I remember when I briefly quit Dead Cells because I couldn't beat the 3rd boss cell. I came back when they added assist mode. Because of that, I managed to beat all the boss cells. In doing so, Dead cells became my most played game.
You're supposed to dodge that dual wielding dude....
But game,you never told me or indicate that I'm supposed dodge in a duel! You put emphasise on flashy gun play as your strong point and then just doing that feels odd.
That's like forcing the Doom Guy to go stealth against one particular boss.
I've left many games incomplete, specially chill games like Stardew valley and story of seasons, but that's more like just stop wanting to play the game than sheer skill check. Sometimes I try to go back to them and I get this weird feeling similar to leaving a puzzle half solved, go back to it and feel completely lost but confident in that, if I were to start all over again and reach this exact same position, now I could continue.
...
One game I'm a little sad for not being skilled enough to beat it is Frogun. It's a neat 3d platformer where you have a grappling hook to traverse certain areas. One level per world there's a "race" level, where you are timed and there's no checkpoints. These are definitely my least favorite levels, and just so happens a lategame (therfore, long) level of these also has a lot of midair grappling sections with bottomless pits... It's so easy to die and so disheartening to lose after surviving a such lengthy gauntlet...
Still, I wouldn't say my overall experience with these games is worse for not making it to credits. I've also left a lot of games for being bored or annoyed of them and want yo never see them again. Regardless of it happening early or in the post-game, it feels a lot worse than not being skilled in that particular kind of game.
You forget that I get turned away by games if those 'hey here is easy mode' or 'let me skip this for you' dialogs constantly pop into my vision.
I do not mind giving options to players. but I do want to be able to turn those hints off completely.
Yes, I do want to try some sections until I passed them, without getting asked to skip them every few trials.
Terraria calamity mod, but only because I got bored with it
The only game that i remember that i stopped playing because of difficulty was ghost of the babe in Jump King. I really liked Jump King but after playing over 15 hours and being on (i think) 4th-5th map, i didn't ragequit or something, just one day i thought that i don't want to waste more time on not getting anywhere. But except Jump King i always at least got to the ending of the game or something
Yeah... I absolutely loved Jump King because (for the majority of the game) the jumps were consistent. In ghost of the babe however, the entirety of the Bog changes your jump mechanic, it doesn't help that you get sent back down to the bottom WAY more often, I got to the House of 9 Lives but after falling one too many times I quit the game and never came back.
I see a lot of people in the responses saying that they never quit because of difficulty, but because of games 'not being fun' for them anymore or not enjoying the grind, as though those are mutually exclusive from difficulty.
There have been plenty of games that I've walked away from because of the difficulty, and plenty of games that I've pushed through the difficulty to complete them. I think the last game I've walked away from was Total War: Three Kingdoms because of the difficulty spike that comes when the three thrones are set, and I've pushed through all of the 'main' soulslike games (all Darksouls, Demonsouls, and Bloodborne) other then Elden Ring and Sekiro.
I could push through and finish the 3K campaigns I've abandoned, despite the increase of difficulty. I have the ability to do so. I just don't find that increase of difficulty fun. I haven't played the newer soulslike games because I'm not finding the memorization that's required in those games fun anymore.
What each person finds fun is different, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with finding fun in beating your head against a brick wall (figuratively) on a difficulty or skill check, just like there's nothing wrong with walking away from that brick wall to find something else you enjoy.
Personally, I'd much rather there be ways around the brick wall that players can take instead of just telling them to walk away if they can't get through it with their forehead and tenacity. Games should be, first and foremost, _fun_ for everyone playing them.
Last single player game I quit was vanilla Skyrim because of the inclusion of the difficutly slider and bring able to fast travel to places I had never even been yet, both of them immersion killers. Like playng around with Skyrim mods though.
Pseychie you are a man of culture.
On the topic tho, it was quite interesting! I like the new video-essay style videos you make. Will you still make Dead Cells videos from time to time?
THERE I AM GARY THERE I AM
Happy to be of help my man
To generalize, I quit most games as I come to a point were I am not able to continue. I try a few times, then move on. I am too old and lacking the patience to try 100 times. And I am playing since the late 80s... so I played a lot in my life. The only exception: Dead Cells. +600 hours, because I can chill after a work day and do not mind the repeat.
I rarely, rarely quit games, and I love difficult games. Dead Cells, Curse of the Dead Gods, Darkest Dungeon 1 and 2, but - The Last Spell - I just burnt out on the game at the very last biome.
It should be fun and entertaining even if it is too much skill or just 1 skill. If it is not fun then it is boring for me and I will quit. I like Gran Turismo and Dead Cells.
10:40 it depends on the context. I've met newcomers to games I enjoy who are aggressively opposed to the very core mechanics that define it, have Dunning Krugered themselves into constantly arguing with everyone else when something they're doing wrong isn't working, or just plain display contempt for the original playerbase for whatever reason. New audiences are good, but they have to respect the core tenets of whatever it is they're coming into
I don't really think every game should strive to reach the widest audience possible. Honeslty, that can often lead to sacrificing what made the game appealing to its niche fans in the first place. However, some games _do_ manage to appeal both to their niche core audience, while also appealing to the wider mainstream audience. Elden Ring is a perfect example of this, since it greatly rewards both vertical and horizontal progression greatly. The whole game can be beaten without leveling up at all, but you can also overlevel yourself and grab a fully upgraded weapon. before you even fight the first boss. The game doesn't have a difficulty slider, but it subtly lets you control its difficulty in various ways. It's the perfect way to let newbies enjoy the game without pissing off the hardcore fans.
I'm gonna start asking for an updated mutation guide on every video u post until we get it
This video is helpful from the POV of an indie dev that wants to make a commerically successful game. It usually won't make too much money or get to popular if it leans into a particular playstyle too heavily and cuts off a lot of potentual players. However, the real gems of the indie game world do exactly this. Obra Dinn asks you to do a hell of a lot of logical deduction. The whole game is basically pure skill. Yet that game had become a cult classic and a staple of the detective genre. Any kind of luck factor would make it so much worse. Outside of money, devs don't have to try hard to get a large playerbase or guarantee play retention. You can still make a critically acclaimed game even if you didn't think it would line up with many people's interests.
tl;dr - the video makes a good point, but assumes too much about developer and player intentions
the game that i most recently quit was dark souls 2. i’ve played through and love every other from software souls-like (haven’t played sekiro yet tho), and i’ve played them several times. something about ds2 just isn’t clicking with me like the other souls-like games. it should be noted that my fav game of the series is bloodborne, and its gameplay is the antithesis of ds2.
Actually most of the time, I try to finish the game at least once, so I can write it off, and this way I have a full view on the game experience from the beginnning to the end. The few times I drop a game is for quite an important reason. The quality of the game itself. I highly value a good story in an RPG. With this in consideration, try playing an MMORPG and read every possible dialogue, book and other fluff. You immediately notice the drop in quiality compared to other non-MMO RPGs. That is why if I ever try one of these, I immediately drop it for low quality content. I know that it is more about the endgame content and stuff, but the road there has to be interesting, at the least. Other game I remember is Genshin Impact, specifically because of the need of grind for better characters. The game is not about you, but about the randomness of the drop. Don't get me wrong, the game itself is amazing, gameplaywise. If not for the gacha aspect, It would be worth a lot more of my attention. After all, in my view, the games are pretty much about you, because you want to play it and enjoy it. In the end, It all depends on what you want from the game. If an active approach that requires your own growth to beat the game, or a laid back style, that is what reviews and gameplay videos are for. You can check what you are getting. And nothing is stopping you from trying the game for a few minutes to just try it out if it suits you, Steam has refund mechanic for just this reason.
Fun fact about me: I have beaten metal gear rising revengance few days ago and i can 100% relate to what was said in the video about dog boss.
The last game I quit was Enter the Gungeon. Love that game, but sometimes the game just hands you a fucking L the entire run. Also I always wait ages between playing so I get out of practice with dodge rolls.
when I beat Mgr the first time I learned parrying at thick mexican guy
I gave up on League of Legends because getting to challenger was too difficult. Riot should release an easy mode without Koreans.
I love touhou lore, music, and characters in general. But man is it difficult to get into, I feel so noob being unable to finish a game in super easy without using continues to get the ending. A similar thing with fighting games, it's frustating. Also rhythm games, I got good but it took months and years, those games you have to be dedicated if you wanna get somewhere, if not you'll be stuck on very easy.
And yeah, I got to 4BC in dead cells and by that I felt good enough because I already put hundreds of hours doing the first levels and bosses just to die on the late game. Maybe someday I will keep trying until I get to the ending
I stopped playing LoL lately. Last time I wanted to leave the game my friends were laughing because I was ,,too bad to play". Got mad, got to diamond in like 2 years and finally quit lately. I just didnt have fun
**Genichiro Ashina PTSD flashbacks intensify**
I learned from PGR that my reaction time is much better in the morning so maybe this can help you too.
last game I quit was rhythm doctor
the unique mechanics felt unfair and very unfun to learn, such as your whole game lagging on purpose but you still have to keep the same beat
maybe it's just my PTSD with lag, but yeah it was more frustrating than anything so uh, *begone*
Last game I quit was Cyberpunk 2077, I wanted to try a shooter for a change, but the overall game bored my to death, glitches and bugs didn’t help to maintain my interest. FPS games are just not for me I think.
What? You mean actually create an engaging and immersive experience within your games instead of appeasing elitist keyboard warriors? But how will they show their gamer points for upvotes?
(Well spoken vid tbh)
One of the most satisfying part of video games is overcoming challenges, why do you think soulslikes, roguelikes and metroidvanias are all so popular, overcoming difficult boss fights after dying multiple times is more satisfying than endlessly progressing in a game that has no challenge
I quit a lot of games because I lose a bunch of progress. Nothing demoralizes me more than playing a game for an hour and then losing all that progress because I didn't save and the game has a trash autosave system.
unrelated but what's the intro music? feels familiar for some reason
Yakuza 0 kiryu's business theme
@@Thonato420 knew it
The last game I stop playing was Hollow knight in the pantheon I wanted to complete it but i couldn´t
I usually quit a game when it has obnoxious RNG.
ftl music is always a w
Last game I quit was bl2. The three playthroughs and the tedious level cap grind on zer0 was exhausting. I got to uvhm on axton I think I was at the ghost king boss fight trying to get the grognozzle when it hit me that I still have 4 characters and 13 playthroughs. Shortly after that I quit and uninstalled the game. I felt I saw all I needed to see didn’t really care for the endgame 2 offered and I know people like to say “but the story is so good it’s worth 18 playthroughs” dude no it’s not. Just getting one character to max level made me really hate the story it felt less like an experience and more like just a big roadblock. Maybe if I was 15 again when I had to burn I’d be singing a different tune but yeah. Bl2 is definitely for me but it just demanded way to much dedication and I’m sorry bl2 fans but the story alone is NOT worth 18 playthroughs.
Its hollow knight man.
I love this game but i cant beat😂
I think it was mighty number 9 cuz mi save were deleted and i lost everithing
This is what I am feeling with Noita at the moment.
Wonderful, very interesting game but oh boy does it not tell you *anything*. Where are you supposed to go and why? What are you supposed to do there and how?
In Hades and Dead Cells for an example, the goal is clear: progress through biomes and kill bosses, kill final big bad boss and you win. Apparently Noita has a big bad final boss to kill and you need to go down to get to it but it is also open world and you are meant to experiment and discover.
As to how you are meant to do that in a game where it is not hinted to be possible and it is seemingly discouraged by low survivability and fully RNG based build making, I do not know yet, but I will hopefully come back to it and find out.
Noita is literally just RNG. It's not fun.
@@theminerboy5694 I strongly disagree woth both of those statements, its just a hardcore game thats not easy to get into.
last game i quit was deadlink. game was too janky and repetitive to hold my attention.
skill issue
Its a VERY good thing to take breaks and then come back to something later. Sure banging your head on a concrete wall can lead to you busting through it (also more often getting brain damage or falling unconscious), or you could come back later with a fresh mind that made you realise you own a jackhammer. The number of times I've failed and then immediately tried again vs times I've failed, taken a break and then retried, proves to me that the latter is far more efficient.
For me it was genshin impact because as soon as I reached ar40 I started noticing that the gameplay was becoming well.. repetitive and some what annoying to me.. though this is my opinion
Gacha games are like that because they want to build up a habit and slowly get you to spend money. At around ar 40-45 Is where it hits the heaviest though. Its only for people who either like the grind or find what to do other than just endless grind (something like coop or something else) And trust me. The repetitive grinding hits harder with two accounts on AR60 xD. however I play cause I like minmaxing and seeing big numbers on screen so yea, its about the player and if he likes it or not xD
unironically genshin is inaccessibly easy for me. I straight can't enjoy anything in regards to its gameplay for how low difficulty it is, even though I enjoy the atmosphere and visuals. It always smacks me of hilarious when I hear this exact same line of arguing to justify something like an easy mode for dark souls when my response is simply "oh well, glad others enjoy it".
I get you're point
Opening example is just poor game design. It’s what makes Dead Cells great for allowing you to practice against and boss or enemies you have encountered. I just got to the last boss in Dead Cells, died obviously as it was my first time… now I can practice.
glad to see your change of perspective since your anti assist mode days
Nice to see the new video style
Yo, I've played quite a bit of CoJG, glad to see it being mentioned so many years later, hell, glad to see it kickstarted this video!
Nice
DJMAX SPOTTED
This argument is invalid for dead cells because you can just lower enemy health and damage at any time
1. Im glad the video is short and concise.
2. Call of Juarez is a great game
3. YES you should absolutely have taken a break. Always take breaks when gaming, as it 100% increases enjoyment
4. I quit Elden Ring : I had trouble dealing damage to a few bosses with my mage build. After a few hours of trying to " get good" i gave up . I then went exploring for ages in many dungeons and ONLY found melee stuff. I got mad and quit.
I quit Axiom Verge 2: I got a descent way in ( about 3/5 completion) . However the map and compass were bad and i got stuck for at least 3 hours. I got bored and quit.
I watched playthroughs for bith games afterwards and felt like not much fun was lost 😅
I mean it's ok to the game developers to make the game really hard but give the player the time to improve his skills like Celeste or maybe Hollow knight and many other, and great video I really like this new content .
When i first played rogue-likes, especially with scaling difficulties, even if i try my hardest, I've always been stuck at the first difficulty for MONTHS, until i took a rest for a few days, then i ZOOMED right through from 0-3 BC in Dead Cells without even getting hit ever💀
2:17 Stardew valley the reason is that i got bored and stop playing for 3 months
Far cry 5 ~ bored
This game was made for controllers def was easier on the 360
Last game I quit was like 2 days ago, Monster Train, mostly because it felt like an unbalanced version of Slay the Spire. had a good idea but the fact your basic starting spells do 2 damage when the very first miniboss you ever face has 100 hp just felt cheap
The last game I quit playing was Persona 2 Innocent Sin, just because it felt repetitive after a certain point and was so convoluted that I had to look up a guide, which just means that the game isn't fun for me.
Last game I quit playing was bioshock. I’ve tried to play it three times and I just can never really get into it. It’s fun for 2 or three hours but after that it feels so incredibly repetitive. Aim and click, aim and click, aim and click, guns don’t feel unique, combat isn’t very engaging, the same 4 enemies appear the whole first part I could be bothered to play, and there was such an abundance of the magic system that lets you use cool powers they just didn’t feel very special or powerful. I just couldn’t enjoy it after three separate tries with months in between each attempt.
I enjoy the grind to ‘get good’ or to level up my stats to beat the next stage of progression, and then challenging myself with harder difficulties, or specific build types. Really the only reason I quit games is they just aren’t fun anymore, or are just to laggy (subnautica).
I feel like you mixed difficulty for simply bad game design. Sure bad game design sometimes leads to difficulty but they are not the same.
My favorit example for bad game design for a boss is Gamov from ninja gaiden sigma. That boss can infinitely shoot at you without any breaks slowly draining your health while blocking and that makes the boss difficult but in the same way winning the lottery is difficult.
Well thought out difficulty can be scaled infinitely and is usually really fun to go up against. Take any multiplayer game as an example of that.
Plus the conclusion that all games would stream themselves out for withermarket appel will just result in most games becoming bland and just computing over who has the best actionset piece. Elden ring tried to within the appel of fromsoft games and I would argue the game is much worse for it.
The last time I quit a game was Calamity Infurnum at the profaned guardians because of multiplayer issues
Last game I quit was Elden Ring. Not that it was overly hard. There is just nonsense of direction, no idea what you are supposed to do, no markers on the map, and it just wasnt fun.
Having skyscraper level of skill cap shouldn't prevent you from enjoying the rest of the game. It's fun if some players can get a sense of satisfaction, but it's also frustrating if some players that don't care about it can no longer advance in the game.
It was an ok video but I expected more. I think summarizing everything with the "quit moment" was oversimplifying. Also, if you take in regard Daniel Kahnehman's "Type 1" (fast, intuitive, reaction-based) and "Type 2" (slow, high level, rational) of thinking, it's obvious that there are also two kinds of skill (for example, a turn-based game will almost exclusively use Type 2), and I think differentiating them in this context would allow you to explore this issue deeper.