Damaged Oil Filter Housing On Toyota and Lexus
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- Опубліковано 23 січ 2020
- Damaged Oil Filter Housing On Toyota and Lexus while removing the it was probably due to over tightening. We’re going to take a look at why this is happening on 2009 and newer Toyota and Lexus vehicles and how to avoid over tightening while performing a service.
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Torque Spec
Oil Filter Housing Is 18 Foot Lbs
O-ring Installation is 9 Foot Lbs
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This is far the best video demonstrating the issue with overtightening the Toyota oil filter housing. This video needs to be mandatory training for every Toyota tech (or any tech for that matter) performing engine oil changes. What I found extremely useful and quite surprising is how little force is required for 18-ft lbs (25 K-m) of torque. I won't go into details for my oil change on by 3rd Gen Prius (2012), but it was 108F in the garage and I could barely apply force on the breaker bar while working on back with the very low clearance Prius. Let's just say that my assumed 30 minute oil change ruined my Saturday morning. Bravo and well done.
It took me three feet of pole to get the housing off on my Camry when I just did my first oil change (Toyotacare expired). Now when I just got home from work, I noticed I left a trail of oil behind me the entire way. Thankfully the dipstick was still above the minimum mark, but barely.
Thank you! I thought I was the only one having that bad experience. Did my first oil change two days ago and was impressed at how much I had to work at removing the oil filter housing - it was incredibly tight. To my surprise, the "o" ring was broken (torn) in place when I finally was able to remove the plastic housing. I thought it was my fault until I noticed the amount of dirt that had collected around the area where the "o" ring had split. All previous work had been done at...any guesses?...the Toyota dealership. Sheesh...can't trust anybody these days.
I replaced the "o" rings and filter housing using the manufacture's recommended torque settings. No leaks so far. But I can't help having the "look over my shoulder" feeling about any "micro cracks" that Charlie's Foreign Car Service video mentioned. Will keep any eye open. In any case, thanks again for sharing your experience.
Funny, watched another video where the guy didn't use a torque wrench to install the housing and was showing how to hammer the removal tool while applying force. A "Toyota mechanic" chimed in and said he's never used a torque wrench on an oil housing and has never had any recall leaks. Why would a "professional" admit to not using a torque wrench?
Toyota dealer technicians have bad habits and tighten that drain valve plug along with the housing causing that drain plug to be frozen on the housing. Never will take my truck back to the dealer. Do your own oil changes.
Always
True
Yes after 2 oil changes on my tundra, that was enough for me. so much more convenient and better oil used when i do it myself. the little drain they stuck in there i just left in to be honest, i just drop the whole thing and still don't make a mess, but there was no need for it to be overtightened like that. I thought the cartridge was going to be a mess, but i've come to like them more. I think the filters should be cheaper than cannister filters, but they're often the same or more... strange to me .
Made that mistake, when they did a recall on my Sienna they offered to change the oil also, welp now I can't take the filter housing off. And of course I am going back to them to have them take the filter housing off.
The faster the tech can get one car done and get onto the next one, the more money he makes. The more stuff he finds wrong or questionable, means a hopeful upsell to the customer from the service adviser! In many way the system is basically designed to screw as much money out of a customer as possible!
Took 2014 Toyota Tundra to Dealership to change oil, filter housing over tighten by Toyota Dealership technician. Never again taking to Dealership, missed screews and bolts.
Thank you!
Most thorough and acurate video I've seen so far.
Thank you for this video, which explains the problem very well. I left town in November to take care of family business and ended up being gone five months. I returned last night to find my RAV4 sitting in a lake of oil. I don't remember who changed my oil before I left town, but they must have cracked the filter housing. The good thing that has come out of this is that I found a fabulous mechanic who diagnosed the issue right away and is replacing the housing with a metal one. He says he sees a lot of cracked housings on RAV4s and thinks Toyota should issue a TSB and replace them all. BTW, the reason I needed to find a new mechanic is that this is the first problem I've had with this car in four years of ownership.
My daughter has a 2013 Toyota Scion, and whoever did the last oil change used an impact wrench and cracked the plastic. WalMart Techs saw it and wouldn't touch it. They told us what happened. I found this video, and, for 30.00 plus the cost of a filter, I think I can fix it and save her car. THANK YOU for this video. If I knew where you were/are, I would come down and have a cup of coffee. Thank you for the nice explanation for a non-mechanic. I really think I can do this, and I have very little confidence in my mechanical abilities.
Finally a video on this type of filter housing that covers it all and very professionally done. Everyone ignore all the shadetree videos on this subject as they will only get you in trouble.
This guy is 100% correct. I used an impact gun to remove the filter housing, it leaked oil. Most Lexus technicians know what they are doing. It is the lazy 0.01% who don't want to take the extra minute to use a torque wrench.
You make it look so easy.
Changing oil on my 2015 Camry XSE V6 this weekend.
Excellent video. I’ve viewed other similar videos, but none as simple and straight forward as this one. Every DIY’r needs to see this. Well done.
Thanks!
Thank you for the outstanding video! I appreciate it you candid, easy to understand delivery. I had to work very hard at removing the filter housing...slow, but steady pressure (lots of it!) helped me get the housing off. As difficult to remove as it was, I can't imagine the previous mechanic using a torque wrench to secure the housing back in place. Guess I'll find out during my next oil change. Based on your comments about the possibility of "micro cracks" in the housing, I may just go ahead and replace it next time as well. Thanks again for the GREAT video. rb
My boss jumped in to "help out" and did an oil change for me. Not only did he forget the housing oring but I think he was trying to hold the whole car together tightening the damn housing.
GREAT video!!!👍👍
I bought a used 2017 Camry and when I went to change the oil filter, it was really tight. I backed off from taking off the filter housing and didn't really know what was going on until I saw your video. Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!
Very good video and explained professionally. Thank you.
Firestone Mokena, Illinois. Had to use a 1/2” drive impact gun to remove oil drain plug. Same thing with the filter housing. DIY is the only answer, but the common owner of today’s super sophisticated push button self driving, self parking motor vehicles would freak out if they had to turn a key to start. And analog gauges OMG! the cruelty. This was the very best easy to hear video from a concerned tech to show the correct what one should do. Thanks.
Great video. Fantastic job explaining everything
Excellent video and helpful info
Thank you
who ever serviced my Sienna over torqued the filter. Awesome video. Very informative.
Thanks 👍
same thing happened to my 2020 tacoma....
Great video! I have an 08' Lexus ES 350 and a 10' Lexus RX 350. Both have the aluminunm oil filter housing. Neither one of them have ever seen a torque wrench for tightening. Always hand tight and that's it. Never had a problem. And yes because of the many heat cycles it goes through, it basically tightens itself over time and I do need the wrench and socket to remove it. Otherwise hand tight is plenty!
Thank you very helpful. Interesting to know why they made it that way !!
Very good video And really impressed with torque specs
Just had this happen to me. On a DIY oil change, noticed the teeth on the cap was broken. Tried to remove and it was so tighten that it cracked on barely touching the opposite teeth end and oil went everywhere. Had to replace with a metal one. Took me just about all day. I’m a bit happy that I did the work myself because if they’d use an impact wrench again it would have been cracked and leaking at some point.
Great video, Helped me a lot with my new 2016 Scion. Thank you!
Glad it helped! If you have any videos that you would like to see us cover please leave a comment.
Thank you for not using the torque wrench to loosen that oil filter housing in your example. I have seen so many UA-cam people using tools improperly, I am sure they mean well.
So nice to see things correctly demonstrated. : )
Funny how some models have plastic housing and others are aluminum. Thankfully my 2016 Highlander came with an aluminum one. Another reason to never let anyone change your oil - do it yourself! Thanks for posting.
Trust the Torque Specs. Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks!
I do oil changes for a living. Its the metal ones that always get stuck
@@LibertyGunsBeerTrump - mine never gets stuck because no one’s ever touched it but myself 😀
GREAT VID! Thanks Charlie
🎉Thank you for uploading this! Lol it's 1am in ohio, and I was wondering why I destroyed my housing. It was installed wayyyyy too tight. But now I have to go get a new one in the morning. BTW, thanks for the metal housing tip, I'll look into it.
Thank you for this video!! I had apply so much force to get that filter housing off I was sure it was going to break. Dealer really tightened the heck out of it. Thanks again
My 2008 Tundra uses a similar design, also of plastic. Years ago, I learned the hard way to always use a torque wrench (and I do mean always). I never thought of cracking a plastic housing, but am halfway thru an oil change and will probably set my wrench on 17 ftlbs!
Wonderful video!! Thank you!! I did everything you said not to do and suffered all the consequences. Fixed it now, thumbs up!!
Glad it helped!
Fantastic, I really enjoyed this video.
AAA shop in Greenville, SC did this to my Sienna.--Also installed with the O-ring diagonal across the threads. As it was a plastic housing, I ended up taking it out with a chisel and hacksaw. --Replaced with the metal housing and torqued to spec. Changing my own oil now.
Just ran into this problem tonight. Went out and bought the metal one. Threading was perfect.
We can't get ours off 😔
Thank you for the video it was very well done. I’ve seen other videos say tighten to 25 foot pounds. I think they’re looking at a newton torque spec. Wish I had seen your video sooner. Replacing my cracked housing today.
Very good video. Most shops overtighten everything AF
I personally overtightened my oil housing and oil drain plug probably a good dozen of times when I did my own oil changes in the past 10+ years 😂
Outstanding video! I just had to buy a 17mm socket and 1/2 impact adapter for my impact driver to remove a housing on a 2012 Toyota Sienna van I bought used. It turns out this one had an aluminum housing so you are right that these can be overtightened as well. That's why I insist on doing all of my own oil changes. Great advice here, I will probably purchase a torque wrench for future changes.
Thank you for this video, going to have to take an impact to my oil filter housing next week because i could for the life of me not get it off.
Thank you for this video!
You are so welcome!
I've watched A LOT of videos about my cars. After watching this one, I decided to subscribe before the 2nd minute started. You guys make awesome videos. Thank you
Awesome! Thank you! I will keep making them for you!
Great video .I earned a lot. thanks
Yeah I definitely over tightened it..I ordered a new housing already because it started to leak after doing the oil change.. Oh well, now I know. Thanks!
Nicely done. Bravo.
Thank you!
Great video
Awesome video!
On my 2011 Toyota Camry I replaced the plastic one with a cast aluminum one and only hand tightened it when doing an oil change , never had an issue .
I do the same with my F150, just take one or both hands and twist that sucker as hard as you can. Never had issues taking them off or loosening.
@WhiteBlurr ST Yes. I always hand tighten oil filters and I've never had an issue.
You are 100% right. Only when I hand tightened it I didn't get anymore oil leaks from the alum oil filter housing. Did my first oil change on my wife's 2009 Rav4 last week.
@@rogerbec5766 Be sure to completely lube the o rings with clean oil , I used a spray lube . As someone had said the inside / outside of the o ring wasn't lubed . And when filter was tightened , the o ring got pinched and caused a leak .
Excellent video!
Thank you, glad you enjoyed the video.
Thanks for the Toyota part numbers
Good job!
Great info as always
Excellent tutorial
Thank you!
indeed
Doing a oil change on my new to me es300h and have a over tightened housing. I stopped before I broke it because it was just way to tight. I’ve had three Toyotas with filters like this and new something was wrong. I ordered a new housing and the proper wrench so I’m prepared when it breaks. Thanks for you video
Thank you 👍
THANK YOU 🙏🏽
Thank you!
great info! we are all Tighter is better, torque monsters. So, I will beware. maybe mark my Housing and Drain so I don't forget.
Thanks for the tutorial. Our 2014, Gen 3 Prius filter housing is embossed with "25NM" on it. Anyway for what THAT it's worth... We are the original owners.
Great vid. Thanks!
Glad you liked it! If you have video topics you would like to see us cover please let us know. Thanks!
@@fixingcars awesome
I have 2 5.7L engines with this style. I went through hell after breaking my Tundras plastic cap. My theory is that I let my engine completely cool as I have always done. I considered then that it's always warm when a shop does it. So on the Sequoia I changed the oil with the engine still warm and no issues. My theory is it was so tight on the Tundra from thermal expansion contraction. I'm the original owner and it's only been changed by the selling dealership until now. Great video.
I find filters seem to come off easier on any car with engine warm
love it😁
Nikko,
Your video on how to replace an oil filter on a Highlander is absolutely the best video on UA-cam explaining how to efficiently and safely do this seemingly simple procedure. I have paged through every video on this topic and your presentation, including graphic illustrations, taught me exactly how to correctly do a job that until now has had an endless list of questions, “what do I do ifs?”, “how much here?”, “how much there?”, “how do I’s?” etc….
You know what you are doing. You probably were a really good student, and now you are an excellent teacher. Any young tech would be fortunate to work and learn from your breadth of knowledge and plethora of experience. You are willing to teach others. You give what you know and use a very understandable presentation style, and I respect that.
I’m near Chicago but if I lived near your business in Encinitas, California, I would come have a cup of coffee with you as you invited all to do. So perhaps we can share a ‘virtual’ cup. Thanks for making this video.
This is the sweetest reply I've ever received. I'll keep going on videos. Thank you! Cheer's, virtually!
Do you have a link for the Highlander oil change video, I can’t seem to find it
Do you have a link for the Highlander oil change video, can’t seem to find it
Great Video. Who ever did the oil change on my brother car previously must have cranked it to 200 ft. lbs. Had to use a breaker bar which broke the tool and then everntually broke the housing.
What did you do once the housing was broken?
Having the same problem with our recently purchased 2017 Camry from the dealer. They literally said tough luck to the fact that one of their "techs" tightened the filter so tight that its bending my equipment trying to get it off. Had this problem with my last dealer oil change on my Avalon. I think some of the "techs" think if we can't get them off we'll have to use the Dealership for our work. Just one more incident as to why I won't have a dealership do my work.
Same here I used a breaker bar and broke the filter housing and when I added the oil and turn my car on oil spilled out everywhere.
@@siker3231I just bought a new plastic canister for my ‘15 Venza. I just bought it back in Feb ‘23, and when I did my first oil change on it in March, I noticed that there were slow drips coming from the plastic canister, leading me to believe that there are micro-cracks in the plastic. When I do my next oil change at 5K miles (Sept/Oct ‘23). I will replace it with the new plastic canister. As I will be doing the oil changes on this Venza, I will also torque it to “factory spec”, not the impact method. The Car Care Nut (Toyota/Lexus UA-cam channel) says the plastic is high quality and durable, as long as it’s not over-torqued.
Hello. When I worked at Sears Auto ran into these. Had a few come off when I went to remove the 3/8" Drain Plug. Now I am working at Mavis Tire. Went to remove a housing on a Rav4. Popped the Nut right out of the tool. Took it home at the end of my shift. And hit it with my Mig 140. Fortunately it was a Steel Tool purchased at Advance Auto. Stopped in there a few days later. Associate said she replaced several with that same issue. Looked at a new one. You can see a Tiny weld inside. Had to hold it in my hand while welding. Its not pretty. But seems to work.
My filter was tight af on my tundra when I first changed it. I’ve changed it probably 4 times since then. All good now. The housing seal is not on the flat part that meets the engine. It’s up inside the hole where the o ring is so it doesn’t need to be super tight. Just tight enough that it won’t come off
Yep, Lexus dealer service department overtightened the plastic housing, and it broke when I tried to unscrew it! And I have all the right tools!
Very educational. I'd service there, have some coffee.
Great explanation! What is the part number for the metal housing?
On my 2011 Toyota Camry , I replaced the plastic oil filter housing with a cast aluminum one . And only tightened it by hand until it wouldn't turn , anymore .
Would've been good to know earlier. Now I'm gonna miss a day of work to find a new housing.
Thanks
Thanks for this info....first video on this I have seen that covers exactly how the filter housing should be installed... What I was missing is that you bottom it out before you torque it to spec. Funny thing I just changed the filter in my 2012 Highlander and I hand tightened the housing until it bottomed out.....I thought no way it could be all the way in so backed it out and tightened it again...same thing... So I put the torque wrench on it set to 27 foot pounds (spec says 25 ft pnd plus or minus 5ft pnds) and wrench released immediately... So I assumed something must not be right ..but went ahead and finished the oil change and checked for leaks.. so far it looks ok . But will do a brief road test tomorrow and check again. Cheers!
On my 2018 Highlander I got it with 7000 miles on it and the first oil change I had a hell of a time getting that housing off all the way to the last turn, I figured the threads where destroyed from the dealership over tighten but that was not the case, the threads looked perfect, I mean it was very hard to turn off, I was about to buy a new metal housing but the plastic one looked fine, so I just put some anti seize on the threads and the next oil chang worked like a dream, I quess the dry threads of plastic against metal just made it hard to turn, and I don’t take the little drain plug out and let it drain, I just loosen the housing and take the filter out, dump oil out of housing and put new o ring and filter in and screw back on, do my Avalon the same way, 40’000 on the Highlander and 80 on the Avalon,no problems
Thanks , 🔥👌💯👍💪
The one and only time I took my '18 4RNR to the TOYOTA dealer for an oil change (weather was too miserable to do at home like usual).... the grossly over-tightened EVERYTHING. Never again.
We need all mechanics to be like you and not to rip us off.
A lot of dealerships just over tighten oil filter housing purposely.
Thanks for a great video. I changed my 2012 Camry oil for the time (one owner) and had always had the dealer do it except for the last oil change at an other shop when they were doing other work to it. I bought the right oil wrench tool and actually bend my extention piece on my rachet removing the oil filter! I heard it creak when it started to get loose. Once I changed the oil and put everything back together I now have a tiny leak at the top of the oil filter housing. I just changed my 2007 oil for the first time as well last week and noticed it had a metal housing. Why did Toyota go cheap with plastic? Also, why do shops way over tighten them?
This is why I like to work on my own car
Great video, and why did you not decide to install the aluminum filter housing and went ahead with the plastic one with all the issues being posted on the internet on these plastic housing?
This is the main reason I change my own oil on my 2017 Tacoma. Even dealer service techs over-tighten the oil filter housing.
The oil filter housing is impossible to overtighten. OEM filter/oring well wetted with fresh oil turned in on cold engine goes smoothly until it bottoms out.
@@anurakboribun2560 When the a$$holes use an impact to tighten the canister... it will be tight as hell or they will crack the housing. The service techs cracked the housing on my brother's 2015 4-Runner. The housing is stamped with tighten to 18 ft/lbs. I always use a torque wrench.
@@stephenmaurer7008 I know it is stamped. You are right about $$holes because whoever approaches the filter with impact either to remove or install deserves to be called butcher not mechanic. They do not think. Old CANister filter had small thread screw and then landed on gasket. This thing has large thread going over huge oring gasket as it goes in. It gives different feel of resistance. It should be tightened with steady gentle force not jerking or whacking because that is the easiest way to cross thread especially the plastic version. I assure you turned slowly this thing will go evenly until it reaches the end. Sad that mechanics do not have enough imagination to notice that. One complicating factor, non Toyota filter may have orings made out of some crap that does not respond well to removing. When I put it in gently I know for sure threads are not crossed, I always remove it easily too. Again no jerking with the stupid impact, slow steady pull does it until about half way then the rest by bare hand. Once again: to install - original gasket, lubricate it well with fresh oil, approach installation when engine is fairly cold because it expands noticeably when hot. Forget the torque wrench because it could be tricky and fooled many, gentle steady even pulls until you feel resistance of the end of possibility. You may get surprised how simple it is. Next time of removal you will remember that it was easy on so you will have your confidence that it must be removable. Stay away from "mechanics" utilizing impact wrenches. Just replaced three wheel studs, somebody overkilled them ☺
Hey Niko, Your in my bay i used to work in. Electric lift gone? Does John Ball still work there? Your Dad and Mom retire? Good to see your still in buisness and going strong!!!
A Toyota dealer torqued my Rav4 oil filter housing so tight that, unbeknownst to me, they didn't change my oil filter when they changed my oil. I didn't know until I couldn't remove the oil filter, even by using a long wrench extension, when I tried to do a DIY oil change. My Rav4 was 5yr old at that time, so I don't know how old was the oil filter. This also explains why the oil had a darker amber color after they did a new oil change. It also explains why the oil is always overfilled by half a quart ... it's because they did not remove the old oil sitting in the oil filter housing. When asked, the service manager convinced me that everything was normal. I now service all four of my Toyotas somewhere else.
The “tech” at my Toyota dealer thinks 18 ft/lbs = 30 seconds with a 3/4” air hammer at full whack. Then he does a final check with a 3’ breaker bar and a strong grunt.
Prolly just being an ass on purpose
Must be a jiffy lube tech
Check out the Baxter Performance cartridge to spin on oil filter adapter.
It adds one inch extra to the filter area.
You can then use the spin on type oil filter.
A quality made in USA products.
When I bought my Tundra, the oil filter had been changed only twice by a dealer since it was brand new. The metal disk wouldn’t come off without unscrewing the filter body, so I removed the whole thing. I had to use a vice and breaker bar to separate the metal cap from the plastic filter body. Needless to say, I replaced the housing. Since I do my own oil changes, I don’t expect issues after this. Probably won’t let a dealer near it.
First oil change on my daughters 2022 4runner since the prepaid dealer changes. I needed to buy a high priced all steel tool made for a 1/2 inch breaker bar and used a 3 foot breaker bar to get it loose. Nobody could ever convince me that this wasn’t over tightened deliberately. These filter housings will not rattle loose and fall off even if they are finger tight. I don’t care how many heating and cooling cycles it goes through it will never tighten itself to 100’s of pounds of torque.
great video! What is the part number on the replacement oil filter cartridge housing? Video shows a metal replacement part- Part Number/where/how to order please and thank you kindly!
I'm glad my 2016 Avalon came with a metal housing.
Since the large O-ring seals on the diameter and not the face all you have to do is gently snug the housing till it stops on the face....the little metal clip will prevent the housing from backing out if it ever tries to...but it never has on our 2 Toyotas, the friction of the O-ring is enough....as a tool designer I have incorporated hundreds of O-ring applications in industrial tooling....
You don’t even need that SST (special service tool) to get that housing off. KD and CTA makes a 14 flute filter wrench that goes over the end of the housing -works just fine👍
For the 2011 Corolla, there is an inexpensive workaround.
I bought a quality brand 1/4 in torque wrench. It generally "clicks when it's supposed to but I was so paranoid after cracking my first filter housing I arrived at a simple workaround that gives me the desired torque, without overtightening. I also do not require a torque wrench.
First ... when removing the housing, as gently as possible, unscrew the housing. Do not yank, grab, jerk or wrestle the housing off. Gently, gently unscrew the cap until finger loose. Remove normally after that.
When tightening, gently tighten the cap towards the housing (base) surface. Just before you've tightened it fully, ensure you can insert a 0.15mm feeler gauge between the cap and the base. If you have a snug (not tight) fit. You're good to go.
But I repeat, gently, gently tighten the housing down to that gap. More and you risk cracking the housing a few months later when you change your filter. Generally that is when the caps crack.
This has worked without issue for two full oil changes without leaking and the housing was easy to twist off without an initial jerk or tug to loosen. It just immediately began to twist out as soon as I put the faintest pressure on it. That's it. Guaranteed "decent" accuracy of torque without overtightening and without a torque wrench.
Best of days to all.
Just did a relative's '17 Tundra.
Very hard to remove. After install, checked for leaks and there was a tiny crack in the webbing of the notch/ear.
Replaced with metal housing from Autozone $32.
Stealership over torqued mine, they threw in some oil changes when we bought the car. It started to crack when I was trying to get it off. I went in and demanded they do my oil change since they over tightened. They acted like they didn't know what I was talking about but they did it. Then they replaced the damaged housing saying it looked fine. Never buying from them again.
It's a bummer when they don't fess up to it. They should have. It's a very easy thing to overtighten if your not careful.
This just happened to me - Jiffy Lube overtightened, I paid for their mistake at my new oil change place. Jiffy Lube's $100 oil change was getting a bit extreme, and they usually has some kind of issue.....
When it bottoms out tight with the wrench cap, just get it snug tight and your good. The heat will get the oil filter tighter. Its like using the old cannister filter where tou just hand tight snug tight it and your good.
I did my first oil change on my aurion in Australia Im sure I over tighten just keep spinning.not lecking oil I be advised to take it back off and redo oil change
Great video. Dealership overtightened I guess last time, now my housing came apart on me. 🤦♂️
Sorry to hear that
What make and model is that torque wrench?
could you micro-crack and cast iron cover from a lexus rx? i had to use an air impact to remove it
I would just put the aluminum housing not plastic. Car cost 20-30 thousand, might as well get your money worth
Try using a 3/8ths stubby ratchet for the install.
2013 Prius: The service shop over tightened the cap and it shattered next time. They dug out the plastic remnants from the aluminum base with a screwdriver and chipped and scratched the inside of the filter housing. Oil leaks now around the large O ring. Do you have a video for replacing the aluminum base?