Just wanted to put a message here thanking everybody who has engaged with the video and left such kind comments. I'm so grateful and overwhelmed at such a positive response and never expected this. Hitting 40k+ views and 570+ subs in 8 days is just insane and I'm not used to this kind of praise at all. In response to a few comments, I'm not from NA (if you haven't already guessed), World of Warcraft launched in 2005 in the EU! I also misspeak at the start of the video saying '2023', as the script was written and recorded then, and I was very late getting this out. Sorry! Thank you again so much for your kind words and support!
Now that they've made NPC dungeons a thing, they could use the same tech for the final raid of the expansions to adress the issue of missing the climax of the story.
I have a friend who would absolutely love that as he loves WoW but has crippling anxiety, and is always worried about confrontation. It would be great!
I've discussed this with my boyfriend many times - I started playing at the end of BfA and he is a veteran. He built me up, kept me updated and spent hours explaining both the story and the mechanics of the game. When starting, you basically NEED someone saying "No no no, do this instead, go here instead, it will be better for you," to have a good time without confusion. And that should NOT happen in a game.
Couple that with people telling you to download various addons to further enhance your experience, and it's really overwhelming for a new player. I hope you're still finding enjoyment in the game! Thank you for the comment!
@@ZachStachelski13 Yeah, you would have to actually read quest logs to figure out where you needed to go and such. Most people would just tell you to download the addon 'Questie'. I think as WoW has evolved, the QoL changes are mostly brilliant, it's the disconnect with the story that really leaves players in the dust.
Literally the same thing happened to me and my BF when I first got him into the game. I seriously can't imagine what it would be like for a new player with nobody helping them, and as Edd said I can't imagine trying to do half of the stuff in the game without addons at this point. Another problem that was had too is that, quite frankly, the older the content you want to experience, the more "crusty" it will be for lack of a better term. Between stat and level squishes, as well as just the level of mechanics, older style of storytelling, and even the very art and game assets; doing something like TBC questing just isn't going to be as engaging to a new player who doesn't have nostalgia for it.
@@Polterbun That's a good point about the older content. It isn't as refined as something like BFA, and that's why BFA is currently the place for new players to go, and that makes sense. I think only a world revamp can really save new player experiences at this point. I think they have to find some way of retroactively explaining everything that has come before and essentially archive it somewhere, rather than just giving people a half-a-job experience with it. Whatever they choose to do is going to be a TON of work!
My jaw dropped at “this is my first video” Your script, footage, audio clarity and passion, made me think you were a veteran content creator. Amazing video! Totally subbing for more!
He could've worked on UA-cam channels before, and now he decided to make his own stuff. Lots of people do that and some don't. For example I used to be a scriptwriter for a UA-cam channel, but I don't have my own channel, if I decide to create my own stuff for the platform though I will use the things I've learned from working for others into my own projects. That or he did a lot of research before posting his first video, also a possibility
I started WoW on day one. I have two main characters one Alliance and One Horde. I have done absolutely every single quest (sometimes twice because of overlap) in every expansion, followed the story lines and found that one of two of my decisions moved me in a different direction. All the dungeons and raids etc. But today it seems everyone is ALWAYS focused on end game only. Missing so much. I am lucky I stuck with WoW for this long and experienced everything the devs put in. I feel sorry for new players.
I feel exactly the same way. I've bounced between both Alliance and Horde, but I'm Alliance through and through and I have more knowledge with that faction. I feel the exact same way as you do! Thank you for your comment!
I think Garrisons had potential to be crazy good, but they totally dropped the ball with them. It was just a fortress of solitude. I don't think I'd ever felt as lonely as I did in Warlords. It was such a shame. I totally forgot about the Quest Tables! I wouldn't want to see those back either!
@@edd_TVdidn't help me that garrison had city chat think been less lonely they removed city chat force people other city's. If ever add housing better not city chat in it
@@monkeyjames9285 Housing is an interesting topic. I'm not sure how they would ever do that, but I'm sure it'll come in time! Players have wanted it since forever.
I think the leveling experience and story could both be fixed by "Chromie Time" eliminating the filler fetch and kill quests and condense the zones to the major story beats. That way you can learn what happened across the expansions without having to get 150 animal meats and kill 300 murlocs. The mini dungeon/raid to see the conclusion would be great to. And I really wish we could go back to just being adventurers and not the god hero slayer kings of the universe!!!!! that we are now.
That would be great. I don't mind being this great hero, and overcoming all of the trials we have. It adds some real history and acclaim to who we are, but the people who haven't experienced those epic moments will just be confused. They are getting told about their accomplishments and triumphs without ever experiencing them. Thanks for your comment!
Wouldn't condensing all of the zones into just being their main story beats be detrimental to the feeling of being an adventurer? If only the main storyline matters, then the rest of the world outside that feels empty and pointless, and there's no reason to explore it. Not to mention how many side quests are an important part of their zone's identity, or how some fan favorite characters, like Hemet Nesingwary, only appear in side quests and would be effectively removed from the game without them.
@@archdruidbookwalter951 Something like the main quest indicators like we have in the later Xpacs would help this - make only certain quests REQUIRED but allow people to still do the less important quests if they so choose (letting them know with a quest that this is how it works).
@@archdruidbookwalter951 That is true, but I wonder how many of these zones are getting explored anyway? I feel it's hard to find a banker of a solution because like you said, if this goes ahead then side characters and lore/stories of zones becomes alienated. It's difficult to win.
The downside would be the disappointment later on when a new player finds out that this game is packed with repeatable filler quests in the shiny new content.
Good analysis! It reminds me of the famous Stan Lee quote: "every comic is someone's first" and how you need to balance rewarding long time fans for their investment in the story and hand-holding newer players while introducing 15+ years of lore to them.
When I tried getting people into WoW and we played together, made our way through Elwynn, through Westfall, oh look dungeon quests! Dead Mines! ... Oh sheet, this isn't dead mines how I remember it, this is heirloom tank scaling Dead Mines. After we had the same happen in the Stockades a bit later one of my friends logged off. "This is not an MMO". I still feel that.
Excellent summary of what I've had in mind for the past couple years, ever since I started playing Guild Wars 2. In GW2, you have a UI to select different story chapters from each expansion / season. Select the chapter and an icon appears in the world where that chapter starts. Interact with it and the cutscene starts, then you're pulled into an instanced version of the world to play through that piece of content and at the end, you're placed back in the world with other players. If you want to replay the content in that chapter, just select it and go again, or you can read a synopsis of that chapter in the window next to the chapter selection. It allows the story to be very cohesive and understandable, even if you take a break and come back months or years later. It wouldn't work perfectly for WoW, but the devs are proven to be masters at taking good ideas, fitting them to WoW and polishing them, and I have faith they could do the same with this if they wanted to. They might say that few people care for the story, but given how many people didn't like what they did with Shadowlands, I'd say there's far more people that care about it than let on.
Very true about the Shadowlands. I think the outrage showcases that people love the lore of WoW and want to have the best story experience possible, if Blizzard are planning on telling stories. Thank you for your comment and nice words!
They need new intros for each race with a streamlined summary in quests of the history of that race. Exile's reach is ok, but you lose a lot of identity. Example, as a human, you should get an intro about the Stormwind reconstruction and the king missing in action and quests summing up the story of the Defias and the unmasking of Onyxia, phased quests, instances, cutscenes, whatever, but they need an intro like that, a singleplayer version, easy and fast. And then, an introduction of the options you have if you want to follow the story in chronological order or not. Chromie time was a good idea, but they need to be more clear with the order (Cataclysm should be third, after Outland and Northrend, as most of the Classic context is lost) It's 30 years of lore we're talking about. It's normal that it is multimedia (books, comics, games...). But currently, the new player gets an extremely generic intro and then gets shoved into a very complex world.
That's a great point. I think that is potentially something we could see, certainly for Night Elves if their plan is to have new characters start off in Amirdrassil going forward. I would actually really love that, the way you described the Human starting cutscene sounds great!
@@edd_TV Thank you. I'm sure they have the knowledge and the time to make them better but here are a few more, I see them as separate from "Chromie expansions" as they are now, Exile reach like but reusing interesting places and stories, not creating a generic one for everyone. Dwarves - Tell the war of the 3 hammers and about different clans, play mostly your fast way to Blackrock and end the "tutorial" with the first Ragnaros fight N. Elves - War of the ancients, well of eternity and world trees. Play the relevant quests that lead to Ahn'quiraj Gnomes - Their contributions with tech around the world. Then Gnomeregan. Draenei - Intro about them fleeing from Argus. Some phased quest using the world of alternate Draenor and Outland to tell the second escape. B. Elves - Intro about their history with the alliance, Arthas and then Kael'thas, similar to the Draenei, with phased quests on outland until some leave and tell Lor'themar. Trolls - Zandalari empire history intro, images from all over the world, then specific Darkspear intro reliving Sen'Jin's death, Zalazane and the retake of Echo Islands or something Tauren - Gotta have some centaurs, Earth Mother, Grimtotems son of bitches, etc. Maybe Maraudon. Undead - Lordaeron backstory and finish starting quests on Stratholme or Naxx. Orcs - Intro about new Horde philosophy vs old one. Images of old wars or something, Durnholde dungeon to know Thrall. Maybe quest of getting rid (again) of the cult of the damned allying with everyone to raid Ahn'quiraj (yea, like N. Elves idk). They could also make a "select a story" option and follow every important piece to level through that, and you may try different ones with each alt character you create. For example, Garrosh. You get general Horde intro and go into quests related to Grom's mistakes and final redemption, then jump to Outland where the son is sad because his father was a disgrace and the first drinker, then you follow him on every quest until he becomes a hand statue.
@@maxpowers4436 Sort of, but the human heritage armour quest for example is quite heavy with both Vanessa Vancleef and Onyxia. It's not really relevant to the modern day, it's just a nice throwback, and it's an awesome questline! I loved it. But it doesn't really shape or connect the dots for a new player
Now everything is "when did that happened?" and the answer is "in a book that it's at the blizzard store written by someone who has never played any warcraft game and it's retcone pretty much everything you know"
@@edd_TV I hate having to buy stuff to follow the in-game story, also I can't afford those in my country, also there's the fact that I lost all my love for the game in Shadowlands.
Well, to be completely honest, they begun to do it. For some characters, when you first interact with them in Dragonflight, you have dialogue options to ask who they are and what are they doing here. It is still too little, but it is a begining. Also they are little diferences in quests if you play as a dracthyr (not big and not many, but some).
I miss WoTLK on a daily basis, it's storyline was incredible to teenage Meoni. It's absolutely horrifying to see that new players start an expansion and never really see the pay off. Same with the other expansions, but wow, not actually dealing with the threat must feel awful! Excellent vid!
@@42Nightsyesterday I don't think it can ever be the same though. Nostalgia is one hell of a drug, and the behaviour the classic community has cultivated is so foreign to the game we knew and loved back then. I think we've all grown a bit cynical with age too and if we go back and try to remember these games as they were, it's like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. It can't ever be the same again. But it is still nice the option is there.
"I just want to know what's going on" was definitely my mantra as a new player. I only played WoW for a few months at the tail end of Legion and the beginning of BfA, but I always felt lost on some level without consulting a wiki or something. I still tune in to the odd WoW video to see how things are every now and then even though I haven't had much desire to actually play it again. The ability to better experience older stories (like with those story fights you proposed for example) would really tempt me to give it another go.
I hope they can do something to encourage you to return. You sound like you enjoy the game and are obviously interested enough to stay up to date with the story. I think the 'consulting wiki' or UA-cam videos and stuff is what Blizzard expects of players at this stage. There is so much written up or compiled into videos, and it's really great stuff. It's so informative and I love watching them, but I do think these things need to be conveyed inside the game as well. Thank you for your comment. I hope you get to return to the game and enjoy it someday.
I've got my xp capped at 59 and playing through the expansions in order with Chromie active currently, it's been a neat challenge seeing loads of things I haven't ever paid attention to! Though very time consuming, if anyone's at a loss at what to do in the game and is curious to the story, I recommend this - although it would be amazing if Blizz would incorporate a proper way of doing it
"What is World of Warcraft's Iron Man?" That is such a great question, and if Blizzard could answer that then maybe they could add value to chromie stories.
Glad you liked it! I don't think it's a question they will ever think about though. They are either creating more problems or still attempting to solve other known issues. New player experiences sadly aren't and probably won't ever be a priority.
It would be a great idea! I'm sure they will no doubt expand on follower dungeons but as for how much, we'll have to wait and see. Thanks for your comment!
It was more of a thing of the past, sadly! Back in those days you HAD to read the quest log, otherwise you would have no idea where you were going! Addons such as Questie invalidated a lot of the quest text for most people, as they just wanted to get on with the game. I feel like they have tried to make quest text more important with Dragonflight from a narrative point of view, which is awesome, but not everybody is going to read it or be interested, and that's okay! Thank you for your comment!
That actually is an amazing idea to have some sort of museum. It would be amazing to collect every expansion's cutscenes into one physical area, and then any new players could literally just watch it like a Netflix series or something.
All credit goes to Nobbel regarding that! He told me he was working on a video for it, so make sure to subscribe to his channel if you haven't already, so you don't miss it! It would be really cool I agree! I think it's likely the best avenue for Blizzard to explore at this point. Thanks for your comment!
yeah watch all the cutscenes and then uninstall, sitting and watching a best of compilation really doesnt do much to get people invested in a story. especially since WoW has very few cutscenes and would probably confuse players more than inform them.
@@makeacupoftea5310 That would be a good idea. If you're familiar with the solo duties you take part in within the MSQ in FFXIV, that would be a really good way to illustrate some key moments of past expansions and actually engage you, rather than just watching a film, so to speak.
This happened to my daughter, my husband and I have played since vanilla and our oldest daughter who is 13 wanted to try to play, we made her a character got her through the island and then she was forced into bfa she was so confused trying to get around with out flying. She gave up from frustration even with our help from being forced into a story line she wasn’t that interested in. She’s played ff11 with me which is much more frustrating and she had more fun so that’s saying something
That's such a shame. I think it's great that you can play games together as a family, but quitting out of sheer frustration and confusion because Blizzard haven't looked into new player experiences is so sad to hear. Like you said, you really are powerless to do anything in this situation too. You have been given your marching orders and this is the way you have to play the game until you can access the current expansion. It's something that needs addressing if Blizzard want to attract new players and both celebrate the history of the game and showcase the storyline to the best of its ability. Thank you for sharing!
Kinda why I started playing again with Dragonflight, Played an Evoker as my main and literaly focused only on what made sense for that character, fresh out of the stassis. Best way to not think of the past content
They get closer and closer and then abandon concepts before hitting the mark. Garrisons are a great example. Player garrisons in WoD keeps you isolated. Then in Legion, they reformatted the idea to class halls. Closer. Still not there. Then they abandoned the concept. The bullseye was Guild Halls. A place for Guildmates to congregate. Help each other craft and quest. The Hero's Call board lists upcoming guild events on the calendar. A bulletin board with quests to accept that were guildies requesting help with a group quest. Special rewards for completing these to help your guildmates. They got so close. I don't know why they don't bring these concepts to their obvious winning conclusion. I would love a hideaway with my guildmates. A hideaway with random druid strangers wasn't fundamentally different from the WoD garrisons.
Order Halls were brilliant. I think another 'hideaway' idea you were pining for could have maybe been Garrisons. Garrisons had such huge potential. It would have been nice if it had more of a sort of guild or 'clubhouse' vibe. I love the idea you're planting of just a bunch of guildies together in a little hub either socialising or crafting together. It would be great if you could do tasks together to unlock skins and themes for it too (but that already sounds like a cash shop nightmare). All of this sounds lovely but It just sounds like WoW from the past (from a community and togetherness angle). I always feel like Blizzard have some great ideas, but their execution is often so poor and just misses the mark like you say. Thank you for your comment!
i really dont get why blizz isnt creating a prologue questline, that bridges the story of the old expansion to the new ones. Like a questline thats a couple of hours long, lets you learn the core of your class, explains the story of the previous expansions and then spits you out at the current one with the relevant level. That way new players know the relevant storybits, their class and the core gameplay loop and Blizz could easely just hang another chapter and the end of the questline, everytime a new expansion comes out.
That sounds good to me! I understand the 'conclusion' of expansions and the solo raid instance is a big wish, and almost certainly an impossible ask, so this would be pretty great. Thanks for your comment!
One of the things I liked when I gave FFXIV a try in 2022 was that I didn't feel like I had to rush to level cap. I was able to take my time and enjoy the story. As I got to Endwalker, the current expansion, I had full context of what was going one because I had gone through everything before it. WoW use to be like that. You'd level through Vanilla, TBC, and then WotLK. Then Cataclysm happened. So now you'd level through the Cataclysm revamped zones, then TBC, and then WotLK, before getting to the Cataclysm end game zones. And while I enjoyed Cataclysm, I realized how confusing things had to be from a new player perspective. Cause you'd be hearing about how there's war happening and that you need to defeat Deathwing....only to wind up in Outland being told you have to beat Illidan, and then you get a quest from Garrosh telling you to go to Northrend to talk to....him....and it's like: wtf is going on?
Yeah, FFXIV is really nice in that sense. I'm fearful for its future when eventually it may get to a stage like WoW where level squishes become a discussion, or new story arcs which may mean starting in an expansion further down the road, like WoW with BFA. I oddly miss the old skool levelling of WoW, because it felt like such a nostalgia trip, even if you didn't get to do all of the zones, I still liked the fact that I knew I'd go and do Hellfire, and then Grizzly Hills and Sholazar etc. It was obviously very long winded and messy, but at least the continents felt a bit more lived in. I agree with everything you've said. Thanks for your comment!
There's three reasons why I believe FFXIV wont do what WoW did. The first reason is FFXI, the first of the two FF MMOs. It's been going on since 2002 in Japan and 2004 world wide. It's had a lot of content updates with the last major one being in 2020. And yet the leveling experience remains unaltered. The second reason is that FFXIV doesn't have the endgame focus like WoW does. WoW's focus on the endgame is why they push players to the latest expansion content as quickly as possible. In FFXIV, the focus is on the story and the journey instead of the destination. The third reason is looking at FFXI. It's been going since 2002 in Japan and 2004 world wide. It's still being updated with the latest major update happening in 2020. They've not changed the levelling experience at all. They could if they wanted to, the game is older than WoW and has a large amount of content to work through. But Square Enix isn't the kind of company to sacrifice story in the name of the endgame.
WoW is a game I have basically given up on learning the lore for because so much of it is either lost to time or never visible to the player in an easy to experience medium. Like I understood the lore through MoP for the most part. But because they had major story events in a random book outside of the game when WoD happened I was so confused and quite.
WoD was very risky, and initially I was so excited for it. I think WoD was just so unfortunate. It had potential to be brilliant. But yeah, you're right. I think the book War Crimes is where it started getting more noticeable for me. And even though I purchased some of these books and enjoyed them, I don't think it was the right way to go about it. Thank you for your comment!
I think the major issue is that the DEVS THEMSELVES don't care about anything other than getting you to Max Level and the current new, hot, end-game content as quickly as possible.
It's definitely their biggest target for players, and it does make sense to have people participating in the latest content where everybody else is, but at what cost? Neglecting the rest of the game and watching it stagnate just feels so sad to me.
As an old-school WoW player that quit over a decade ago, the saddest thing I have to say is that the Wrath of The Lich King and Burning Crusade expansions had flaws. They were fun at the time, I can't deny it. But a bunch of holes in the experience and the story were starting to show already, compared to the good old Warcraft 3 it was based on. I had the expectation that things would improve in later expansions. But the opposite happened. It was hard to imagine just how low the standards would become for this series.
This is exactly why I couldn't play TBC or Wrath classic! I have such fond memories of both expansions, and I knew if I ever went back to play them now, I would just poke holes and complain about it. And I really don't want to feel that way about those expansions. I agree, the decline in the storytelling has been profound.
@@edd_TV I played classic when it first came out and loved it. Nowadays I don't feel like doing it though. It was a fun MMO back in the day, but today, there are just better games out there. I remember the time I wasted grinding for some stuff in old WoW and am afraid of doing it again.
@@rumplstiltztinkerstein That is a valid fear I think. I think Classic is in a bit of a transition now with Season of Discovery and surely down the line, Classic+. I think in terms of character progression, retail will always be king in regards to collections and such. Classic is a bit of a question mark, because Wrath going into Cata can only go on for so much further. Will they ride Classic all the way up to Shadowlands for example? I'd say very likely not. I would put money on it ending after Mists personally. So it is a lot of stock to invest to potentially leave it all behind. I suppose if we're being very realistic about it though, it's just a video game at the end of the day, right? But I empathise with sunk cost fallacy a hell of a lot!
They should have Ner'zul, now freed from The Jailers control, take over Torghast and begin locating and reviving the Souls therin, including Arthas, Kel'Thuzad and Teron Gorefiend to be his Luitenants. Gul'dan too, but I think it'd be more interesting if he went back out into the world to do stuff. He could either be the new Jailer or be preparing to whatever cosmic stuff they were planning.
Love the idea of this. I think some people may roll their eyes at seeing villains return, but if it serves a purpose and is done correctly, I'm all for it. I think this would be awesome. Thanks for your comment!
You know, this is a really, really good analysis. As someone that has played for the last 12 years, yeah, I can figure how hard can be for someone to start a new adventure and be greeted as the Champion.
Some of my friends dragged me into it back in august for the first time (they're long time players, I missed out on it cause I was a poor student at the time and then went gw2 -> XIV), and it was very confusing. We ended up making second chars and going to play Legion instead, and that felt much better. Still some Confusing bits, but not as much.
The new player experience can be crucial to a game, especially when they introduce content through the story. I started playing Destiny 2 in 2019, bought it shortly before it went free to play, to join an established group of friends. The new player experience was not a very useful one, I constantly had to be told which NPC was used for content, I had no introduction to the story and no idea who the NPC's were, why they mattered or where to unlock dungeons/raids. As a result of this complete disconnect with the game world, when they froze progression for my favorite weapons I stopped playing, as I could no longer play the way I liked and keep up with the content outside of pvp matches.
Excellent vid! I completely agree! Id do something like give a choise between a regular chromie/bfa fast leveling and a much more slower "cinematic leveling" or "main story questline" where you get to see the most important parts of each expasion while leveling, lets call it a curated highlight reel haha, guided by chromie (or not, so you feel that you were actually there and not just cheating your way in) and the main characters, also serving in a tutorial sort of thing. So you do the most important quests, see the most important cutscenes and play in a follower dungeon type of thing the most important raids and dungeons. And once you reach the end of the second to last xpac you are max lvl for that xpac and you are ready for the new one. I wouldnt call it a way too relive the past xpacs but for of a guided tour thru the story, might as well even add some new cutscenes to skip questlines or summarise otherwise long or tedius content. Heck Id play something like that even tho im here since WotLK
Thank you! I think a guided tour is definitely better, because it can't be TOO time consuming otherwise nobody is going to want to do it. You run the risk of people disengaging. If it was like FFXIV where you were expected to go from TBC right the way through until Dragonflight, it would just be so overwhelming.
One of the best ways for a new player to actually play through the game's previous expansions is... Insane. Like currently it requires buying dragonflight, doing a class trial to trick the game into letting you do Chromie time, and then actually going through the expansions, and freezing your level at 59. Like WoW has become more Insular I recognize, but it is going to be even more insular if it entirely rejects New players who are interested in the story.
NP, least I can do was give engagement for something I am heavily agreeing with at this time (Since I am 'leveling' while trying to actually pick up on the story I never got originally. Though seeing the classic versions of zones is soon going to be impossible unless someone enjoys the idea of Hardcore WoW or using a 3rd party service.)
17:30 WoW has a few times where it'll reference things you've actually done. I remember Bolvar would recognize you in Dragonblight if you did the big Onyxia attunement quest back in the day. I'm also finally levelling one of my older characters through Shadowlands and Lady Vashj had an extra gossip option since that character has actually done SSC. Great video! Glad the algo sent me here!
That was exactly my experience with the game. I played WoW first a long time ago in WotLK. I returned for Shadowlands. I got really into the story of Legion and was excited to see it unravel. Suddenly, I reached the final level of scaling and everything was ruined for me. I even attempted to continue, but the fact that I basically blasted through all these powerful enemies with one hit and got no reward for it felt empty and broke the immersion. I ended up going for the Shadowlands content but... yeah, the magic was gone. This is also such a dramatic shift for me since I'm a Guild Wars 2 player, and in that game the core game takes you to level 80 and then you just never level up higher. It stays at 80 while new, expansion specific, optional progress systems are introduced. It's always worth doing older content because it has different skins, legendary weapons and achivements. People are still grouping en masse for world bosses for lvl 10 and thanks to downscaling they continue to enjoy the fights. They will still farm lower level maps because even the more basic crafting materials are still usable in the lategame. WoW clearly was inspired by the GW2 mount system in Dragonflight. I wonder why wouldn't they also borrow the GW2 storytelling and leveling experience as well.
A few people have mentioned the GW2 philosophy/system, and it sounds interesting. Any comment I've seen about GW2 has been nothing but praise. That sucks about your experience, it's a damn shame too because Legion is really great. I did read that dragonriding was essentially born through GW2 too. I just don't think the story or levelling journey is something that even comes to mind for them. Their focuses are just on what's relevant, and it's hard to imagine that ever changing. Thank you for your comment!
Really good job, especially as a first video! I would like to see a questline stitching the main events of each expansion together, along with the solo raids idea. I think with the new technology they have it may be feasible, and it would at least give new players a basic understanding of what's going on while fulfilling the need for a decent conclusion in each individual storyline. Looking forward for more content!
That would be a lot of fun! I'd like to see that. I just wonder if it's something they put much thought into. Love the idea of it. Thank you for the kind words!
THIS is your FIRST video!? I'm in. Subbed. I totally look forward to how you narrate videos and put together your thoughts going forward. Please do not feel a need to rush more content - I look forward to what happens whenever it happens.
It is! I've written another script already which I'll start putting together in the next few weeks. Thanks so much for your kind words, it means a lot. Glad you enjoyed it!
My suggestion is a middle ground, force players to complete the expansion chosen for chromie time, and then make 5-man dungeon versions of core raids that are mandatory to progress and finish them. It would still be alt friendly, might slow the leveling process by a few hours possibly, but would ensure people experience the story. The 5 man versions of raids could be tuned like a sort of uber dungeon that has like 9 bosses. And could be made only for expansions that are over / raid tiers from 2 patches ago and have some potential gear and cosmetic rewards maybe equal to or slightly less prestigious than the ones in the actual raid. So basically what would happen is you'd do WOTLK and you'd have to go through HF or BT, and then ZF or DB, and then do Ice Crown and Storm Peaks (or something along these lines) then make you face Malygos at the end of Borean Tundra, make you face Ulduar at the end of Storm Peaks and then make you face the tournament at the start of Icecrown and then ICC at the end of Ice Crown While they may not get all the chronology, they would have enough of WOTLK understood. Then they could scale the other expansions at their leisure or level an alt. The alt path would probably require them like let's be generous and say about 10 playthroughs to see everything. But it's better than keeping things as they are now, or making us all go back to the dreaded level 60-80 leveling block from the scaled level bracketing of late Legion. I just don't feel like doing every expansion front to back every time I level an alt.
Force them to finish the leveling expansion? No. Just No. I get a lot of people think everyone plays the game for story, but a lot of us just want to level. I tried the “catered” MSQ in FF and by Shadowbringers I was so sick of skipping cutscenes, I just quit. Optional sure, forced no. I don’t care about the story in WoW, FF or any other game. I don’t know why Mario saved the princess and don’t care.
@@keithb6344 You clearly have zero imagination. Waste someone else's time. If you don't care then feel free to skip all the dialogue you want. But WoW doesn't have a bunch of cutscenes so you're basically whining that you'd have to PLAY THE GAME more. Oh noooo! It might take me 16 hours to get from level 1 to level 60 what ever will I do...
@@kabrozkabroz Yeah, it takes a lot of imagination to come up with a single solution to a problem and force everyone through it. Its a moronic idea for a game that already has multiple ways to level. 16 hours of skipping dialogue is a waste of time if don't care about it. If people want to lock XP and do the whole story they can. They can even put a group together and do the raids at that level. Once again making it an option is fine. Forcing it is just going to put people off.
Very well done video! I do like Tali's "Path of the Curator" idea, either way it's nice when the glaring problem with WoW gets some significant attention. I subscribed and looking forward to seeing what else you do!
Great first video man, and the audio is very very solid for just starting out. One of the things many new content creaters never get right is Audio, so very well done!
One of the horrible thing about modern wow is how restricted it is, forcing new players to play a certain expansions. another example is the portal from Teldrasil is restricted untill you get to lvl 10 (they might have changed that by now) the glory of vanilla back in the day is that you would create a character and do what the hell you wanted. you could walk to highets lvl zone in the game if you wanted. there was nothing stopping you.
I started playing Wow in BC, and I quite frankly still have all these problems. I think I've loremastered everything up through Pandaria, but I never got to fight the Lich King, because by the time I got there, I could walk through the dungeon, but due to mechanics could not get past the vampire queen. Currently trying to do broken isles on my main and Warlords on another character, and I think I've randomly been exposed to other expansions, but whole thing is shitshow. I think wow was better when characters were just a guy in the world, and not the "champion of light" so to speak, or more accurately, the audience of light.
It's very tough if you weren't there at the time. There is a serious sense of fomo because like you said, if you don't do it when it's current and then eventually decide to check it out, you're overgeared, over levelled and it just simply can't be that same experience it was at the time of release. I feel really passionately about the minimum item level feature from FFXIV, purely because I don't think it hurts anybody, and I think players could have a lot of fun with it. It would make old content relevant and people could organise some fun social nights to remember raids gone by. Thanks for the comment!
"STORY MODE RAIDS WITH STORY-RELEVANT COMPANIONS", this i would play as a new guy, hell, im a new guy in everything from wotlk, idk what has happened since then, and it would be a serious step towards blizzard showing us that, "they care".
What if blizzard did a level rescale where new players have to spend 10 levels in each expansion, finish a main quest line for each before “Shardding” into the main course with all the experienced players. At that point the new players would have a gist of the lore direction.
Wow Edd, if this is your first video... then your channel is a MUST to subscribe to! Well done! Great insights and I so hope someone at Blizz watches this, that might truly fix the leveling experience.
Maybe in WoW you should have a ingame hidden "rank", a adventurer, soldier, general, hero, champion. depending on how far you've reached in the game. how much content you have finished. and it is by this rank the NPC's will refere to you. So if you're a new player, instead of a champion anduin will refer to you as an adventurer.
That could be interesting, and sounds like a solution because they will obviously never address us by our characters names. I think 'champion' is the go-to, but obviously we have had alternatives too like you said: hero, maw walker etc. They do actually use new dialogue when you enter Stormwind Keep off the back of Exile's Reach. I believe Anduin calls you 'recruit', but then you're immediately escalated to 'champion'.
I actually think your idea with the npc dungeons is a great way to solidify the old expansion experiences! Having a short miniquest that just provides some Chromie-specific introduction to the content would be good too. Like providing a short summary that explains what kicks off the events of the expansion, potentially alongside a small series of quests involving replicating the pre-launch events. That'd be the dream. That *AND* a hopeful Cata-like event to freshen up the 1-60 experience again, updating the content to be far more relevant. If they really want to go in more of a character-driven direction, they ought to retroactively involve the npcs in the raid progression through those npc dungeons to culminate an expansion's story.
Great vid Edd! I hope that some day Blizzard does decide to implement improvements you've mentioned here - I hope they can see the value of it with the success of Classic and how much people enjoy witnessing older content. Looking forward to the next one!
Azerothian Archives came out and it has nothing to do with what Day was talking about. it tells the story of one Dracthyr battle from the past through a bugged out public event that operates on a timer like prior ones. There's a daily hub with even more bugged and poorly thought out quests. It's really something.
I did see! I was honestly in such a mad rush to get this video out before the launch of patch 10.2.5 that I didn't have time to adjust any of it. I haven't played it personally yet but I've seen some gameplay of it. I can't say I'm surprised it's buggy, hopefully they will address it soon. Thank you for your comment!
The point about characters being forgotten reminds me of the whole issue in BFA of the Alliance having a spaceship and the army of the light and just... never using them.
Good point! I think we'll absolutely be seeing them in the Worldsoul Saga, but it does beg the question when we have these kinds of allies at our disposal and we don't use them, or at least request their aid.
A common complaint I saw of WoW's writing tended to be how there are all these super powerful characters, who just never use their powers. Here's two "god-tier" night elves who... just don't retake their land.@@edd_TV
@@daefaron That's a very valid point. I even think some are explained poorly, or maybe sometimes not even explained. What exactly are the Dragon Aspects 'Aspectral Powers'? What are they going to do now they have these powers back? Good point!
FF14’s model is so close to what I feel is the ‘optimal’ mmo for me. The fact that the main story content is designed to be easily played with random groups or alone is such a big thing for me. One of my biggest turnoffs of WoW was how the climax of every expansion (fighting the Lich King in your video) was gated behind endgame large group content is a stinky design idea. Same thing with Raids in Destiny
Yeah, I think it's just something that is so very dated now. It's kind of okay in a very weird way with LFR, but it's not exactly a fulfilling experience and is enabled for every expansion. I agree with you that I think FFXIV has nailed the way story is delivered. I just don't think WoW would work if they implemented the same style into it.
Awesome points! I agree whole heartedly! Blizz alrdy has a great way to tell their older stories, the Caverns of time.....make a bronze dragon (Chromie) in ToC have a "story" menu and make some scenarios that players can run through to hit the major plot points of the last 20 years lol. Maybe add some cosmetic items u can get for going though them. I mean look at some of the actual dungeons they have there. It wouldn't be anything to hard to implement, and new players could start off doing those before u head to the "new" expac. They could even add just a few per patch. I've been playing since wotlk and I would love to run through something like that.
The Caverns of Time is a great idea too, considering it had told us so many stories in the past: The Culling of Stratholme, Mount Hyjal etc. I like the idea! Thank you for the comment!
Sunk cost fallacy is exactly that, a fallacy. Why should the average player have to settle for a jumbled disjointed mess just because a couple of people chose to grind out a billion pointless achievements? The game 100% needs a reset, no if or buts.
@@bamboebahr2470 Mine too! I was a blacksmith. I miss chilling in Prontera with my little cart of goods. Those were the days. Glad to be able to recall some memories for you!
Great video! I couldn't believe it was your first, I can't wait to see what else you make! As someone who joined in mid-late Cata because my family was too poor for any of us to play before that, I agree that the new player experience needs such a revamp. Even back then, when I was like 12 and new, I found myself wishing I could start from the -beginning-, not just the beginning of that expansion. When I tried out FFXIV in 2015, I was so shocked when you really DID start at the beginning! I like how the story changes with what you've done in FFXIV, even in the smallest ways. I've been trying to get my friends into WoW for years, and it all just feels so daunting to them - they watch hours of lore videos just to catch up and understand what's going on, and that's not even mentioning my friend group all plays on RP realms and are avid RPers, so there's a whole other layer to it. I hope Blizzard updates the experience soon so I can show the people I love the world I fell in love with over ten years ago.
Did you try Classic/TBC/Wrath to try and experience those expansions as they were? I can relate trying to get friends of mine into WoW too, it feels like an impossible task at this point. Thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed it!
@@edd_TV I did try classic, both hardcore (pre-actual hardcore servers) and “regular” classic! I enjoyed it a lot when I played with my friend, but I found myself a bit lonely on my own because I started later on. I did also try wrath but I didn’t even get out of the starting zone because that loneliness crept back up, even with friends waiting for me at the end game. It almost feels like I’m just seeing a glimpse into what was - everyone talks about their nostalgia and how amazing these times were back in the day in trade chat, but it’s my first time seeing it all, and that almost makes me feel othered. It’s hard to fully articulate that feeling!
@@voidVirago Yeah, that's understandable. I'm glad you were able to give them a try, but I think it's impossible to have that true authentic experience because people already know everything. Loneliness is a huge factor too, it's the main reason why retail is dwindling for me. Most of my friends play Classic, particularly Season of Discovery right now, and have no interest in retail. Thank you for your comments!
Great video! I've felt like I'm either missing something or behind every every time I go back would be nice if they did something like you've mentioned!
It can be a very confusing, mad dash, and so much can be unexplained that you may have to go digging for answers, whether it be Wowhead or UA-cam or whatever else. It's frustrating. Thank you for your kind words!
The very thing you're asking for is Timewalking. The only difference is they haven't expanded it to every raid, but each time a specific expansion's timewalking event is up, there is not only the dungeons that scale you down, but there is also a raid that's scaled down you can queue for and fight as if it were that xpac currently, again. BC: Black Temple, Wrath: Ulduar, Cata: Firelands, etc. Also this is acting like you can't just... go back and quest ever again after level cap. Nothing is stopping a player from returning to finish where they left off.
It is. That's why I mention things like the minimum ilvl and food for thought for Timewalking. It just basically needs reinventing I think. Or some life/relevancy injected into it. I think doing Timewalking just for the hope that you're lucky enough to get the mount or the gear reward from the raid is a bit flat. I mean they can go back and finish those quests/zones, but what is the conclusion with the campaign?
I really do think enhancing and revamping Timewalking might be the best thing for them if they wanted to tackle this. Making old content relevant again would be a lot of fun. Syncing down the ilvl/level/gear and jumping into Throne of Thunder, Icecrown Citadel etc. Maybe tie some new rewards and achievements to it, similar to how Fated works. They could also introduce some higher res tier sets of the original, and maybe mounts to give players incentive to take part.
@@edd_TV oh yeah, video was really good. Editing and pace wise. Really shows the amount of time you spent on it. Hardly seemed a first video, definitely have a bright future. Edit: damn typo. The video is good, not goof oof
I haven't been a regular player since Cataclysm so this has been illuminating as to the current levelling experience for old and new players alike. I've been playing classic (and loving it). Story and immersion is what keeps bringing me back to WoW, even if I lost my taste for it as soon as the end of Cataclysm started making us (the player) the Real Heroes (i.e. the dragon aspects stepping down to honour the mortals' rise). So I'm a huge fan of being a background character - a cog in the wheel - making small differences to people's lives everywhere only to eventually heroically defeat The Evil. That's a rewarding story! However, it's hard to justify that player story arc over and over again. Why would the player NOT be a class leader after killing old gods and dragons and titans? It doesn't make sense to keep being a background character. There may be a balance just above the region of 'getting to cut the line at Valiance Keep' (fantastic point to bring up btw!). Glad it's not my problem to solve. Thanks for the video, have a sub.
I'm glad you're still able to find some enjoyment in WoW in classic! I'm in a similar boat and have been butting heads with retail for a while now. I played the first season of Dragonflight and then decided to take a break because I didn't know anybody else who still played. I'm optimistic The War Within could be a lot of fun, but I still don't see how it could be a good new player experience. Thank you very much for your engagement and encouragement!
@edd_TV That's something else I hadn't noticed. Despite thinking the mini expansions were adding features to the game that ought to entice me to come back, it still feels inaccessible. You described it as new players feeling like they've "missed the boat", and that's exactly what the new announcement is missing: where is the entry point?
@@EspadaNeliel77 Your guess is as good as mine! It's a difficult one to comprehend because a player would ideally want to come back because they are enticed by something new, so then they have to either rush through (or often ignore) content so they can get to the latest bit. I think the entry point is honestly Warcraft III. That was where I began and fortunately I have been able to see and experience everything, but I couldn't imagine the experience as a new player, assuming they are checking the game out mainly for the story. I think it's so much easier if your goals are simply pvp or end game, but to really delve in and learn the story of Warcraft is such a tall order now.
I remember on my first character, a goblin hunter toward the end of MoP, arriving at Org, walking out into Durotar, and over and over again asking myself, "What the heck are these questgivers talking about?"
Not sure why this got recommended to me but I really like that you get straight to the point and don’t spend 3 mins talking about some random stuff. Keep up the good work, man!
Loved this overview. I've been playing since inception - I still remember wanting to be a banshee based on WC3 and choosing undead as my first character because that was the closest thing. And I still play that character. But as someone whose dodged in and out of WoW over the past 20ish years, I get lost a LOT in the story, where to go/what to do next in leveling an alt, and wishing I could re-experience some of the older expansions. But I even struggle to find where to start some of those things. Just give us a story mode - a playthrough of the major quests in succession, with all those gloriously beautiful cinematics. And for that matter, some "Guides" for things like the class hall mounts and achievements without having to toggle back and forth between various comments on WoWhead would be amazing. There's so much potential for these things.
I think a story mode would be fun. It would require a lot of work but I think it would be worth it for those interested. It's a shame that all those stories are discarded now. There should be a way to enjoy them in their entirety and to celebrate those times and stories. Thank you for watching, I'm glad you liked it!
Instantly subbed! The "wow" heart and soul that went into this is amazing. Overall great video, loved Mor'ladin getting a shoutout! GIVE US MORE VIDEOS!
I'd love them to start from the beginning, Orcs and Humans, then work their way through the entire story in phases. They could do it SoD phase style where you simply can't get max level for the first playthrough, but it'd require major revamps to bring Eastern Kingdoms to pre-war and reworked Blackrock Mountain to be the capital for the Horde until the WC3 phase. I'd love to see Stormwind fall and the Alliance move capitals to Lordaeron. I'd love to see Beyond the Dark Portal via recycling and updating some of the Draenor from Warlords of Draenor, and then even a phase where Draenor breaks as Khadgar destroys the portal. Then we move to a phase where Horde is embattled and Kalimdor opens up, and then we witness the rise of the Scourge and Lordaeron falls. The phases would continue into WoW Era, but by the time Naxxaramas rolls around, we follow it up with Northrend instead of Burning Crusade. Though tbh making an Era of Darkness (WC2 world state) with the Orc/Troll/Ogre/Goblin Horde would be amazing on its own
Agree with a lot of this. Think there was a discussion a few years ago where people pointed out that a lot of the WoW team were raiders and the game had become more geared towards that. Do wonder if it was about revenue as well though; that raiders made up the larger portion of the player base. Though that could be a chicken and the egg kind of situation; whether the game was already heading that way so the player base reflected that or vice versus. Is very difficult to move away from that though; as you say - its whether Blizzard consider it being worth it (or should we say Microsoft who potentially may want to see a far more casual experience for console players). Also a lot of those folks who started out 20 years ago probably have their own families now so there's a potential market there.
The issue: WoW has no leveling experience, has no midgame, has no endgame. Retail turned into a bloat of fetch quests. Most people consider logging in to raid or do m+ as 'endgame'. But then it's just a dungeon simulator and not an MMORPG anymore.
That is essentially what I did. It was just mythic+ for me. I did +20 on every key in Season 1 to unlock the portals and thought 'What now?' and just quit. It was a lonely experience for me.
A lot of people feel that way too! I think I can take it or leave it. I think I've grown to prefer to be the 'main man' in FFXIV and in WoW I would like to revert back to the way things used to be.
I also think your ideas would be amazing to tell a a somewhat "canon" version of the story. A lot of WoW's story can be weird canonwise but doing what you suggested could provide some bases for a consistent narrative.
I think some stuff is just so very forgettable too, or was quite weighty in the narrative for a while and then never gets talked about or mentioned again. It feels like these stories are important for that time period, and then we close the book on it and start a new one I think this is what The Worldsoul Saga aims to eliminate. It will connect all three future expansions and tell them in a way they have never tried to convey WoW before, which is exciting, but doesn't do much for a newcomer. Thanks for your comment!
@@edd_TV I think it is forgettable because it never become relevant again. When characters are finished with their stories (like Illidan) it causes them to feel like they have no purpose anymore and it can feel weird because it feels like they should be involved more. You are right pointing out how characters are relevant for one expansion and then get forgotten. It just really sucks because WoW has shown they can make really great stories. But what happens after those stories retroactively makes those previous stories feel weightless. And thank you for the video. It was really great seeing my own thoughts reflected in such a great way.
@@Knight1029 I agree. I think another example of this is Tess Greymane in 10.2.5 with Gilneas. Just how relevant is she going to become in the future? I would bet probably not very. We've seen it in the past with other characters I've referenced too such as Talanji and Taelia. Illidan is a big name, but I'm sure he's going to have a big part to play in The Worldsoul Saga when the time is right. I'm pleased to hear you liked it. Thanks a lot!
@@edd_TV yeah. Obviously not ever small character should become main stays but characters like the ones you mentioned where they were huge movers and shakers feel like they need more relevance. I did! And I hope to see more from you soon!
With the bronze dragons, there would be a perfect (lore friendly) way to catch up with WoW history. There could be an npc that you can talk to, to set you back in time to replay every piece of content someone might want. May it be a questline, a specific event or even a complete expansion. For example, you could visit the old world before the cataclysm, cut content or old versions of dungeons and raids. And with level and item scaling, and the new npc followers for dungeons, this could even be a challenging experience if one might want to.
That would be pretty sweet. I think they would have to offer rewards and incentives for all players to want to do it though, rather than the players desperate to learn the stories and long forgotten or even removed events/questlines. I think if Blizzard can create something like this that makes all (or most) players interested in checking it out, then that would be worth it in their eyes. Love the idea. Thanks for your comment!
@@edd_TV Thank you! I love this game and I played it for more than a decade, but it felt odd to me after a longer break. I would love to come back if something that way would be implemented.
Loved your video! I have been saying SO much of this for years. Especially about the new player experience. I would like to add that I have high hopes for the integration of the AI dungeons, as it's a tool they could VERY easily use to do those type of Story dungeons, and story raids for each expansion. Even if it's not a leveling experience, I believe the option to go back and experience the expansions at the correct level would still be something new players would want to do, especially if it had capstones to the story that allowed you to run the story of the raids and why you were there. Obviously, a lot of work. But if WoW is improving their end game and new expansion leveling experience, they need to bring the previous expansions if not to the same level, at least up to a level that people will resonate with.
It's so bittersweet to hear that people resonate with this. I love that I'm not alone with my thoughts and feelings here, but I'm also sad that people have been having these experiences and likely end up quitting the game entirely because of it. I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying. Thank you for your kind words and comment!
Frankly, I think the only way of making any sense of the whole plot in a cohesive manner would be a WHOLE WORLD revamp, but also with the design philosophy that zone's plots should be "evergreen". Think how zones are in vanilla: There are conflicts, yes, but the zones aren't necessarily stuck in in time, or at least, they're not stuck in particular brief time periods like later expansions are (Especially the likes of cataclysm or BFA) Granted this would be a MASSIVE undertaking, and even then the benefit they'd get from it is... Dubious at best, as most of that is unlikely to actually be played by current players who already have all their character leveled up. Wow is a 20 year old game. There's no cure for that. It's crushed under the weight of its past selves.
So true. I don't think they could have ever anticipated almost 20 years of the game. When I started playing at the age of 13-14, I never thought I'd still be interested in it now! A world revamp would be really cool but I wonder how it could happen.
ive had this idea for a while, honestly, i think a timewalking quest line or timeline if you prefer where chromie walks you though major events and quest through each expansion up to the new one would be my idea, logistically its probably a shit ton of work, but it would build a solid foundation that wont become outdated for new players. new expansion? add on to the quest line from the previous, make the xp appropriate so people dont have to go back and when they finish that quest line they can immediately jump into the current expansion and continue the story. as for dungeon que just lump every expansion classic to current into the random que. would make times way faster and wouldnt be too disorenting as the loading screen tells you what xpac youre doing a dungeon in .
I think TImewalking is probably the answer. Revitalising Timewalking and offering new rewards and incentives to take part in it would be great. It would allow new players to get a taste of what content was like back then and players helping them achieve these goals could still have some fun and feel that their time isn't being wasted. Thank you for your comment!
@@edd_TVyes! Make a main quest that gives good xp, weaves in and out of the expansions hitting all the focal points, throw in some toys and transoms and the problem is solved. Hope blizzard sees this! Haha
@@dustinmorse7975 Gear will always be the biggest incentive to most players sadly. I love the idea of transmog and toys being rewards. They could remodel the older Transmog sets and bump up their quality. Or even just offer recolours. I think it would be enough for collectors to go after them. I think there is A LOT of possibilities with both follower dungeons and timewalking, and if people don't like it they don't have to engage with it. I don't see how it hurts anyone.
"Illidan disenchanting Guldan" was epic. As for your arguments, I think you have mostly good points, we shouldn't have to be dumped out of Chromie Time automatically and it really shouldn't force first time players into BfA. As a player since Vanilla, though, I like being the "Champion", and one of the things that galled me about BfA was I went from Legion as the freakin' DEATHLORD with my own flying fortress and Illidan himself praising you for assisting on world quests to "Oh, Kul Tiran's are gonna chuck you into the dungeon" on the Alliance side, and on Horde side Nathanos was crapping on you every time you accepted a world quest. The Alliance BfA start should have had the option to nope out of the arrest attempt - seriously, a high level PC should have been able to just walk out leaving behind a trail of knocked out/dead guards dumb enough to try and stop them - and immediately jump to working with Cyrus.
The transition from Legion to BFA really did kill a lot of stuff, I agree. We lost our artifacts and so many cool things that came with it. We also lost the use of our legendaries, and going from that power into Azerite...it didn't stand a chance. BFA felt like a miserable levelling experience after all the fun we had in Legion. You're so right too about the story and fantasy with our characters.You would have been the Deathlord and I would have been the Highlord, and as soon as BFA rolls around..it's just a chapter that's over now. Thanks for your comment!
IMO there need to be an option for totally new player to start their journey like how a vanilla player walk out of Northshire, you slowly go through each expansion, with a guiding main story line to follow, like what they do in FFXIV. This story line doesn't have to use all zone, but at least, the player should be guided through the expansion at a somewhat accelerated pace without losing any major story point. I understand this had to be optional, would be too extreme of a change to turn WOW into story first raid later, but if the game is to retain new player, expecting every new player to buy a boost, server change, then start raiding for entire expansion is simply not realistic.
I love the idea of it, but it's such a time commitment. And with Blizzard saying that they are aiming to get expansions out quicker going forward. It would be such a climb I think for a player who wanted to take their time and really absorb everything. It would have to be a completely different game at this point I think. I really like it, I just don't think Blizzard could ever justify it.
Great video dude, I think a massive issue with WoW is the story has gone pretty doolaly without explaining everything. Nothing has a conclusion anymore, each expansion ends on a cliff hanger, its exhausting!!
Hey man amazing video. I don’t know if it will get traction at blizzard, but honestly these videos always give me hope it will. They always remind me I’m not insane for thinking and saying these things, and that lots of people in the community in fact do care for the story and want it told better. So thanks for starting my day off good, and I can’t wait to see your next video.
I'm really excited on TWW as Exile's Reach will directly lead into Dragonflight as the new main leveling Experience. Incl. Dragonriding/Dynamic Flight very early on. Combined with the Follower-Dungeons lead by Cpt. Garrick and the very same Expedition-Members you've encountered and bond with on Exile's Reach to close off each Zone's Main-Storyline, I think this will be a much smoother Start into the Game for new & returning Players. As you'll have a steady growth in Story & Reputation throughout the Dragon Isles where at the End you (& everyone who helped) are crowned & entitled as "Champion of the Dragonflights" giving other NPCs a logical Reason to refer to you as "Champion" outside of DF. You'll also know Chromie by then and when you do a new Character and she suddenly pops up and offers you to experience a different History, you'll be much more engaged in doing so. I really, really hope Blizz will adapt the "Path of the Curator" for a streamlined Campaign through the Old Xpacs hitting you with "Max. Level minus 10" right the Moment you finish the Story. For example where as you will only get XP from Campaign Quests and nothing else during Chromie Time. BUT even without PotC, the new Exile's Reach -> Dragonflight -> The War within / Worldsoul Saga should be a much better Experience for everyone. :D
The connection with Garrick and the follower dungeons is a really nice touch. Yeah, I think Tali's 'Path of the Curator' could still have a place in WoW in some capacity. It would be good if people could play through the stories even with zero experience gains if they were that keen on seeing the stories, or Chromie Time could offer a more authentic and complete experience for alt characters. I hope you're right! Thank you for the comment!
You did a really good job making this video. I really thought you are doing this a long time. It feels so professional with all these Sounds from the Game, the Pictures, Video-Clips but also your Voice. I also really liked the Topic you chose and i hope there are going to be more great Videos following. I would really appreciate it, if Blizzard would add some type of archive to sum up. That would give me as an long time player also a chance to bring back the Memories of old Times in WOW History and make the story more clear.
This dude just named his channel Edd, uploaded a banger video out of nowhere and gained 40k views, what a chad. Keep it up mate! Great and insightful video, many things you’ve shown here I actually never thought about as a long time player
Edd is just my name, haha. I've legitimately always been horrendous when it comes to aliases or anything of the like! I used to play a lot of competitive Counter-Strike: Source and even then I just used the name 'edd'. That's really kind of you to say, thank you so much!
@@edd_TV Maybe that’s part of the charm that helped your video grow - just simply your name and your photo. No fancy logos and graphics, comes across as more genuine and honest. But the video obviously was well made and you put a lot of work into it. Keep it up! Looking forward to your next one
Also want to say that this video was made amazingly especially if it is your first or one of your first published videos, you have a very promising future in content if you keep it up, im always happy to hear a fresh voice talking about wow and to have such interesting points and perspectives is nice and i dont even play anymore (started as a kid in TBC with mum, loved rogues, death knights and hunter's, you hit the nail on the head with new player experience as all my siblings have tried wow and even pre legion it got confusing to them let alone chromie time, my personal opinion is one linear story path per character, yes be able to opt in and out for min maxxers but actually reward someone who only wants to be a death knight in northrend or a demon hunter in outland, argus broken isles etc, good luck with the future
That's awesome about playing it with your mum! That's a shame about your siblings experiences. Thank you so much for the kind words, I really appreciate it!
@@edd_TV it was one of the best parts of my childhood sharing those moments with her, every big event, release, boss etc the hype just filled the house lol, much love!
First video? I think you bloody nailed it Edd, take my sub, Looking forward to watching your channel grow. WoW's Ironman? I fell like that would of actually been warcraft 3, the original, not the reforged, it set up so much for Vanilla, TBC and WotLk to follow, characters, location, factions, it's all in there.
That's really kind of you to say, thanks a lot! And I agree with you. I think Warcraft 3 is the best place to start if people feel they can stomach an RTS. Reforged was so disappointing, but you're right, there is so much setup there. Thanks for your comment!
![The Story of Warcraft - Full Version 2.0 [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RKsNKZi5Ct8/mqdefault.jpg)
Just wanted to put a message here thanking everybody who has engaged with the video and left such kind comments. I'm so grateful and overwhelmed at such a positive response and never expected this. Hitting 40k+ views and 570+ subs in 8 days is just insane and I'm not used to this kind of praise at all.
In response to a few comments, I'm not from NA (if you haven't already guessed), World of Warcraft launched in 2005 in the EU! I also misspeak at the start of the video saying '2023', as the script was written and recorded then, and I was very late getting this out. Sorry!
Thank you again so much for your kind words and support!
Just wait until Asmon watches it then it will pop off again
Now that they've made NPC dungeons a thing, they could use the same tech for the final raid of the expansions to adress the issue of missing the climax of the story.
I have a friend who would absolutely love that as he loves WoW but has crippling anxiety, and is always worried about confrontation. It would be great!
LFR is a thing guy... if you aint good enough to clear LFR you need to find a new game
@@MegatronDconZ Doesn't change the fact that a lot of wow players are toxic and rip on you for anything in group content
@@MegatronDconZ And we found the kind of guy someone with anxiety would hate to play with, good job
This is just code for "I suck at the game and cant follow directions"@@siera2470
I've discussed this with my boyfriend many times - I started playing at the end of BfA and he is a veteran. He built me up, kept me updated and spent hours explaining both the story and the mechanics of the game. When starting, you basically NEED someone saying "No no no, do this instead, go here instead, it will be better for you," to have a good time without confusion. And that should NOT happen in a game.
Couple that with people telling you to download various addons to further enhance your experience, and it's really overwhelming for a new player. I hope you're still finding enjoyment in the game! Thank you for the comment!
To be fair, even in 2004 WoW was a bit difficult to get into without a friend.
@@ZachStachelski13 Yeah, you would have to actually read quest logs to figure out where you needed to go and such. Most people would just tell you to download the addon 'Questie'. I think as WoW has evolved, the QoL changes are mostly brilliant, it's the disconnect with the story that really leaves players in the dust.
Literally the same thing happened to me and my BF when I first got him into the game. I seriously can't imagine what it would be like for a new player with nobody helping them, and as Edd said I can't imagine trying to do half of the stuff in the game without addons at this point.
Another problem that was had too is that, quite frankly, the older the content you want to experience, the more "crusty" it will be for lack of a better term. Between stat and level squishes, as well as just the level of mechanics, older style of storytelling, and even the very art and game assets; doing something like TBC questing just isn't going to be as engaging to a new player who doesn't have nostalgia for it.
@@Polterbun That's a good point about the older content. It isn't as refined as something like BFA, and that's why BFA is currently the place for new players to go, and that makes sense.
I think only a world revamp can really save new player experiences at this point. I think they have to find some way of retroactively explaining everything that has come before and essentially archive it somewhere, rather than just giving people a half-a-job experience with it. Whatever they choose to do is going to be a TON of work!
My jaw dropped at “this is my first video”
Your script, footage, audio clarity and passion, made me think you were a veteran content creator. Amazing video! Totally subbing for more!
Thank you so much. I really appreciate your kind words!
Had to fact check and yes, it is his first video, subbed as well
@@ThePrimitiveAndTheModern Thank you!
He could've worked on UA-cam channels before, and now he decided to make his own stuff. Lots of people do that and some don't.
For example I used to be a scriptwriter for a UA-cam channel, but I don't have my own channel, if I decide to create my own stuff for the platform though I will use the things I've learned from working for others into my own projects.
That or he did a lot of research before posting his first video, also a possibility
I started WoW on day one. I have two main characters one Alliance and One Horde. I have done absolutely every single quest (sometimes twice because of overlap) in every expansion, followed the story lines and found that one of two of my decisions moved me in a different direction. All the dungeons and raids etc. But today it seems everyone is ALWAYS focused on end game only. Missing so much. I am lucky I stuck with WoW for this long and experienced everything the devs put in. I feel sorry for new players.
I feel exactly the same way. I've bounced between both Alliance and Horde, but I'm Alliance through and through and I have more knowledge with that faction. I feel the exact same way as you do! Thank you for your comment!
Borrowed powers, Garrisons, and Quest tables can stay dead, I like just being a dude traveling place to place doing what I can
I think Garrisons had potential to be crazy good, but they totally dropped the ball with them. It was just a fortress of solitude. I don't think I'd ever felt as lonely as I did in Warlords. It was such a shame. I totally forgot about the Quest Tables! I wouldn't want to see those back either!
Murder Hobo
@@edd_TVdidn't help me that garrison had city chat think been less lonely they removed city chat force people other city's. If ever add housing better not city chat in it
@@monkeyjames9285 Housing is an interesting topic. I'm not sure how they would ever do that, but I'm sure it'll come in time! Players have wanted it since forever.
I don’t mind the quest tables. They basically gave me a way to be productive when away from the PC.
"Illidan disenchanting Gul'dan" has got to be one of the funnier WoW-related jokes I've heard in a long time.
Glad you liked it!
I think the leveling experience and story could both be fixed by "Chromie Time" eliminating the filler fetch and kill quests and condense the zones to the major story beats. That way you can learn what happened across the expansions without having to get 150 animal meats and kill 300 murlocs. The mini dungeon/raid to see the conclusion would be great to. And I really wish we could go back to just being adventurers and not the god hero slayer kings of the universe!!!!! that we are now.
That would be great. I don't mind being this great hero, and overcoming all of the trials we have. It adds some real history and acclaim to who we are, but the people who haven't experienced those epic moments will just be confused. They are getting told about their accomplishments and triumphs without ever experiencing them. Thanks for your comment!
Wouldn't condensing all of the zones into just being their main story beats be detrimental to the feeling of being an adventurer? If only the main storyline matters, then the rest of the world outside that feels empty and pointless, and there's no reason to explore it. Not to mention how many side quests are an important part of their zone's identity, or how some fan favorite characters, like Hemet Nesingwary, only appear in side quests and would be effectively removed from the game without them.
@@archdruidbookwalter951 Something like the main quest indicators like we have in the later Xpacs would help this - make only certain quests REQUIRED but allow people to still do the less important quests if they so choose (letting them know with a quest that this is how it works).
@@archdruidbookwalter951 That is true, but I wonder how many of these zones are getting explored anyway? I feel it's hard to find a banker of a solution because like you said, if this goes ahead then side characters and lore/stories of zones becomes alienated. It's difficult to win.
The downside would be the disappointment later on when a new player finds out that this game is packed with repeatable filler quests in the shiny new content.
Good analysis! It reminds me of the famous Stan Lee quote: "every comic is someone's first" and how you need to balance rewarding long time fans for their investment in the story and hand-holding newer players while introducing 15+ years of lore to them.
Love that quote! Thank you!
When I tried getting people into WoW and we played together, made our way through Elwynn, through Westfall, oh look dungeon quests! Dead Mines! ... Oh sheet, this isn't dead mines how I remember it, this is heirloom tank scaling Dead Mines. After we had the same happen in the Stockades a bit later one of my friends logged off. "This is not an MMO". I still feel that.
That is so sad, but so very true.
Excellent summary of what I've had in mind for the past couple years, ever since I started playing Guild Wars 2. In GW2, you have a UI to select different story chapters from each expansion / season. Select the chapter and an icon appears in the world where that chapter starts. Interact with it and the cutscene starts, then you're pulled into an instanced version of the world to play through that piece of content and at the end, you're placed back in the world with other players. If you want to replay the content in that chapter, just select it and go again, or you can read a synopsis of that chapter in the window next to the chapter selection. It allows the story to be very cohesive and understandable, even if you take a break and come back months or years later. It wouldn't work perfectly for WoW, but the devs are proven to be masters at taking good ideas, fitting them to WoW and polishing them, and I have faith they could do the same with this if they wanted to.
They might say that few people care for the story, but given how many people didn't like what they did with Shadowlands, I'd say there's far more people that care about it than let on.
Very true about the Shadowlands. I think the outrage showcases that people love the lore of WoW and want to have the best story experience possible, if Blizzard are planning on telling stories. Thank you for your comment and nice words!
They need new intros for each race with a streamlined summary in quests of the history of that race. Exile's reach is ok, but you lose a lot of identity.
Example, as a human, you should get an intro about the Stormwind reconstruction and the king missing in action and quests summing up the story of the Defias and the unmasking of Onyxia, phased quests, instances, cutscenes, whatever, but they need an intro like that, a singleplayer version, easy and fast.
And then, an introduction of the options you have if you want to follow the story in chronological order or not.
Chromie time was a good idea, but they need to be more clear with the order (Cataclysm should be third, after Outland and Northrend, as most of the Classic context is lost)
It's 30 years of lore we're talking about. It's normal that it is multimedia (books, comics, games...).
But currently, the new player gets an extremely generic intro and then gets shoved into a very complex world.
That's a great point. I think that is potentially something we could see, certainly for Night Elves if their plan is to have new characters start off in Amirdrassil going forward. I would actually really love that, the way you described the Human starting cutscene sounds great!
@@edd_TV
Thank you. I'm sure they have the knowledge and the time to make them better but here are a few more, I see them as separate from "Chromie expansions" as they are now, Exile reach like but reusing interesting places and stories, not creating a generic one for everyone.
Dwarves - Tell the war of the 3 hammers and about different clans, play mostly your fast way to Blackrock and end the "tutorial" with the first Ragnaros fight
N. Elves - War of the ancients, well of eternity and world trees. Play the relevant quests that lead to Ahn'quiraj
Gnomes - Their contributions with tech around the world. Then Gnomeregan.
Draenei - Intro about them fleeing from Argus. Some phased quest using the world of alternate Draenor and Outland to tell the second escape.
B. Elves - Intro about their history with the alliance, Arthas and then Kael'thas, similar to the Draenei, with phased quests on outland until some leave and tell Lor'themar.
Trolls - Zandalari empire history intro, images from all over the world, then specific Darkspear intro reliving Sen'Jin's death, Zalazane and the retake of Echo Islands or something
Tauren - Gotta have some centaurs, Earth Mother, Grimtotems son of bitches, etc. Maybe Maraudon.
Undead - Lordaeron backstory and finish starting quests on Stratholme or Naxx.
Orcs - Intro about new Horde philosophy vs old one. Images of old wars or something, Durnholde dungeon to know Thrall. Maybe quest of getting rid (again) of the cult of the damned allying with everyone to raid Ahn'quiraj (yea, like N. Elves idk).
They could also make a "select a story" option and follow every important piece to level through that, and you may try different ones with each alt character you create. For example, Garrosh. You get general Horde intro and go into quests related to Grom's mistakes and final redemption, then jump to Outland where the son is sad because his father was a disgrace and the first drinker, then you follow him on every quest until he becomes a hand statue.
@@SpewPuke Very cool idea!
Heritage armour quests do that. While your idea is great is requires and entire world revamp like cata.
@@maxpowers4436 Sort of, but the human heritage armour quest for example is quite heavy with both Vanessa Vancleef and Onyxia. It's not really relevant to the modern day, it's just a nice throwback, and it's an awesome questline! I loved it. But it doesn't really shape or connect the dots for a new player
Now everything is "when did that happened?" and the answer is "in a book that it's at the blizzard store written by someone who has never played any warcraft game and it's retcone pretty much everything you know"
I do love to read, but people would be expecting to learn and see things in game too. You're right.
@@edd_TV I hate having to buy stuff to follow the in-game story, also I can't afford those in my country, also there's the fact that I lost all my love for the game in Shadowlands.
Great analysis!! I was shocked to hear this was your first video… Your tone, pacing, and editing was perfection!! Great job, awesome content! ❤🎉
Thank you so much for your kind words!
Well, to be completely honest, they begun to do it. For some characters, when you first interact with them in Dragonflight, you have dialogue options to ask who they are and what are they doing here. It is still too little, but it is a begining. Also they are little diferences in quests if you play as a dracthyr (not big and not many, but some).
That's good, but like you said, it's too little too late.
I miss WoTLK on a daily basis, it's storyline was incredible to teenage Meoni.
It's absolutely horrifying to see that new players start an expansion and never really see the pay off. Same with the other expansions, but wow, not actually dealing with the threat must feel awful!
Excellent vid!
Don't forget the music as well! Stuff like Wintergrasp and Storm Peaks are just seared into my brain. Thanks a lot, Meoni!
Bruv you can play Wrath right now
@@42Nightsyesterday I don't think it can ever be the same though. Nostalgia is one hell of a drug, and the behaviour the classic community has cultivated is so foreign to the game we knew and loved back then. I think we've all grown a bit cynical with age too and if we go back and try to remember these games as they were, it's like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. It can't ever be the same again. But it is still nice the option is there.
Great to see some content on this subject! A new players experience is so diminished without them externally searching for lore - nice video!
Thank you very much!
"I just want to know what's going on" was definitely my mantra as a new player. I only played WoW for a few months at the tail end of Legion and the beginning of BfA, but I always felt lost on some level without consulting a wiki or something. I still tune in to the odd WoW video to see how things are every now and then even though I haven't had much desire to actually play it again. The ability to better experience older stories (like with those story fights you proposed for example) would really tempt me to give it another go.
I hope they can do something to encourage you to return. You sound like you enjoy the game and are obviously interested enough to stay up to date with the story. I think the 'consulting wiki' or UA-cam videos and stuff is what Blizzard expects of players at this stage. There is so much written up or compiled into videos, and it's really great stuff. It's so informative and I love watching them, but I do think these things need to be conveyed inside the game as well. Thank you for your comment. I hope you get to return to the game and enjoy it someday.
I've got my xp capped at 59 and playing through the expansions in order with Chromie active currently, it's been a neat challenge seeing loads of things I haven't ever paid attention to! Though very time consuming, if anyone's at a loss at what to do in the game and is curious to the story, I recommend this - although it would be amazing if Blizz would incorporate a proper way of doing it
That's awesome. Fair play to you for doing that, because I don't think many would! I hope you're having fun with it!
"What is World of Warcraft's Iron Man?" That is such a great question, and if Blizzard could answer that then maybe they could add value to chromie stories.
Glad you liked it! I don't think it's a question they will ever think about though. They are either creating more problems or still attempting to solve other known issues. New player experiences sadly aren't and probably won't ever be a priority.
with the new follower dungeons i hope they make a raid variant for older raids for the people that play the game the way you explained
It would be a great idea! I'm sure they will no doubt expand on follower dungeons but as for how much, we'll have to wait and see. Thanks for your comment!
"i can't imagine everybody reads every quest log they've ever picked up" BUT THEY SHOULD!
It was more of a thing of the past, sadly! Back in those days you HAD to read the quest log, otherwise you would have no idea where you were going! Addons such as Questie invalidated a lot of the quest text for most people, as they just wanted to get on with the game. I feel like they have tried to make quest text more important with Dragonflight from a narrative point of view, which is awesome, but not everybody is going to read it or be interested, and that's okay! Thank you for your comment!
That actually is an amazing idea to have some sort of museum. It would be amazing to collect every expansion's cutscenes into one physical area, and then any new players could literally just watch it like a Netflix series or something.
All credit goes to Nobbel regarding that! He told me he was working on a video for it, so make sure to subscribe to his channel if you haven't already, so you don't miss it! It would be really cool I agree! I think it's likely the best avenue for Blizzard to explore at this point. Thanks for your comment!
yeah watch all the cutscenes and then uninstall, sitting and watching a best of compilation really doesnt do much to get people invested in a story. especially since WoW has very few cutscenes and would probably confuse players more than inform them.
Maybe not just cinematics, but some gameplay moments also.
@@makeacupoftea5310 That would be a good idea. If you're familiar with the solo duties you take part in within the MSQ in FFXIV, that would be a really good way to illustrate some key moments of past expansions and actually engage you, rather than just watching a film, so to speak.
@@edd_TV If i know what you are talking about, then that would be very nice.
This happened to my daughter, my husband and I have played since vanilla and our oldest daughter who is 13 wanted to try to play, we made her a character got her through the island and then she was forced into bfa she was so confused trying to get around with out flying. She gave up from frustration even with our help from being forced into a story line she wasn’t that interested in. She’s played ff11 with me which is much more frustrating and she had more fun so that’s saying something
That's such a shame. I think it's great that you can play games together as a family, but quitting out of sheer frustration and confusion because Blizzard haven't looked into new player experiences is so sad to hear. Like you said, you really are powerless to do anything in this situation too. You have been given your marching orders and this is the way you have to play the game until you can access the current expansion. It's something that needs addressing if Blizzard want to attract new players and both celebrate the history of the game and showcase the storyline to the best of its ability. Thank you for sharing!
Kinda why I started playing again with Dragonflight, Played an Evoker as my main and literaly focused only on what made sense for that character, fresh out of the stassis. Best way to not think of the past content
Nice! That actually works out really well from your character's perspective at least! Glad you're having fun with it!
@@edd_TV And to add on top, Evokers only have shoulders and belt transmog, so there is even less point in doing past content for skins!
They get closer and closer and then abandon concepts before hitting the mark.
Garrisons are a great example. Player garrisons in WoD keeps you isolated. Then in Legion, they reformatted the idea to class halls. Closer. Still not there. Then they abandoned the concept.
The bullseye was Guild Halls. A place for Guildmates to congregate. Help each other craft and quest. The Hero's Call board lists upcoming guild events on the calendar. A bulletin board with quests to accept that were guildies requesting help with a group quest. Special rewards for completing these to help your guildmates.
They got so close. I don't know why they don't bring these concepts to their obvious winning conclusion. I would love a hideaway with my guildmates. A hideaway with random druid strangers wasn't fundamentally different from the WoD garrisons.
Order Halls were brilliant. I think another 'hideaway' idea you were pining for could have maybe been Garrisons. Garrisons had such huge potential. It would have been nice if it had more of a sort of guild or 'clubhouse' vibe. I love the idea you're planting of just a bunch of guildies together in a little hub either socialising or crafting together. It would be great if you could do tasks together to unlock skins and themes for it too (but that already sounds like a cash shop nightmare). All of this sounds lovely but It just sounds like WoW from the past (from a community and togetherness angle). I always feel like Blizzard have some great ideas, but their execution is often so poor and just misses the mark like you say.
Thank you for your comment!
i really dont get why blizz isnt creating a prologue questline, that bridges the story of the old expansion to the new ones. Like a questline thats a couple of hours long, lets you learn the core of your class, explains the story of the previous expansions and then spits you out at the current one with the relevant level. That way new players know the relevant storybits, their class and the core gameplay loop and Blizz could easely just hang another chapter and the end of the questline, everytime a new expansion comes out.
That sounds good to me! I understand the 'conclusion' of expansions and the solo raid instance is a big wish, and almost certainly an impossible ask, so this would be pretty great. Thanks for your comment!
One of the things I liked when I gave FFXIV a try in 2022 was that I didn't feel like I had to rush to level cap. I was able to take my time and enjoy the story. As I got to Endwalker, the current expansion, I had full context of what was going one because I had gone through everything before it.
WoW use to be like that. You'd level through Vanilla, TBC, and then WotLK. Then Cataclysm happened. So now you'd level through the Cataclysm revamped zones, then TBC, and then WotLK, before getting to the Cataclysm end game zones. And while I enjoyed Cataclysm, I realized how confusing things had to be from a new player perspective. Cause you'd be hearing about how there's war happening and that you need to defeat Deathwing....only to wind up in Outland being told you have to beat Illidan, and then you get a quest from Garrosh telling you to go to Northrend to talk to....him....and it's like: wtf is going on?
Yeah, FFXIV is really nice in that sense. I'm fearful for its future when eventually it may get to a stage like WoW where level squishes become a discussion, or new story arcs which may mean starting in an expansion further down the road, like WoW with BFA. I oddly miss the old skool levelling of WoW, because it felt like such a nostalgia trip, even if you didn't get to do all of the zones, I still liked the fact that I knew I'd go and do Hellfire, and then Grizzly Hills and Sholazar etc. It was obviously very long winded and messy, but at least the continents felt a bit more lived in. I agree with everything you've said. Thanks for your comment!
There's three reasons why I believe FFXIV wont do what WoW did.
The first reason is FFXI, the first of the two FF MMOs. It's been going on since 2002 in Japan and 2004 world wide. It's had a lot of content updates with the last major one being in 2020. And yet the leveling experience remains unaltered.
The second reason is that FFXIV doesn't have the endgame focus like WoW does. WoW's focus on the endgame is why they push players to the latest expansion content as quickly as possible. In FFXIV, the focus is on the story and the journey instead of the destination.
The third reason is looking at FFXI. It's been going since 2002 in Japan and 2004 world wide. It's still being updated with the latest major update happening in 2020. They've not changed the levelling experience at all. They could if they wanted to, the game is older than WoW and has a large amount of content to work through. But Square Enix isn't the kind of company to sacrifice story in the name of the endgame.
@@TimmyTheNerd Very good analysis. I agree with you.
WoW is a game I have basically given up on learning the lore for because so much of it is either lost to time or never visible to the player in an easy to experience medium. Like I understood the lore through MoP for the most part. But because they had major story events in a random book outside of the game when WoD happened I was so confused and quite.
WoD was very risky, and initially I was so excited for it. I think WoD was just so unfortunate. It had potential to be brilliant. But yeah, you're right. I think the book War Crimes is where it started getting more noticeable for me. And even though I purchased some of these books and enjoyed them, I don't think it was the right way to go about it. Thank you for your comment!
I think the major issue is that the DEVS THEMSELVES don't care about anything other than getting you to Max Level and the current new, hot, end-game content as quickly as possible.
It's definitely their biggest target for players, and it does make sense to have people participating in the latest content where everybody else is, but at what cost? Neglecting the rest of the game and watching it stagnate just feels so sad to me.
As an old-school WoW player that quit over a decade ago, the saddest thing I have to say is that the Wrath of The Lich King and Burning Crusade expansions had flaws. They were fun at the time, I can't deny it. But a bunch of holes in the experience and the story were starting to show already, compared to the good old Warcraft 3 it was based on. I had the expectation that things would improve in later expansions. But the opposite happened. It was hard to imagine just how low the standards would become for this series.
This is exactly why I couldn't play TBC or Wrath classic! I have such fond memories of both expansions, and I knew if I ever went back to play them now, I would just poke holes and complain about it. And I really don't want to feel that way about those expansions. I agree, the decline in the storytelling has been profound.
@@edd_TV I played classic when it first came out and loved it. Nowadays I don't feel like doing it though. It was a fun MMO back in the day, but today, there are just better games out there.
I remember the time I wasted grinding for some stuff in old WoW and am afraid of doing it again.
@@rumplstiltztinkerstein That is a valid fear I think. I think Classic is in a bit of a transition now with Season of Discovery and surely down the line, Classic+. I think in terms of character progression, retail will always be king in regards to collections and such. Classic is a bit of a question mark, because Wrath going into Cata can only go on for so much further. Will they ride Classic all the way up to Shadowlands for example? I'd say very likely not. I would put money on it ending after Mists personally. So it is a lot of stock to invest to potentially leave it all behind. I suppose if we're being very realistic about it though, it's just a video game at the end of the day, right? But I empathise with sunk cost fallacy a hell of a lot!
They should have Ner'zul, now freed from The Jailers control, take over Torghast and begin locating and reviving the Souls therin, including Arthas, Kel'Thuzad and Teron Gorefiend to be his Luitenants. Gul'dan too, but I think it'd be more interesting if he went back out into the world to do stuff. He could either be the new Jailer or be preparing to whatever cosmic stuff they were planning.
Love the idea of this. I think some people may roll their eyes at seeing villains return, but if it serves a purpose and is done correctly, I'm all for it. I think this would be awesome. Thanks for your comment!
You know, this is a really, really good analysis. As someone that has played for the last 12 years, yeah, I can figure how hard can be for someone to start a new adventure and be greeted as the Champion.
Thank you!
Some of my friends dragged me into it back in august for the first time (they're long time players, I missed out on it cause I was a poor student at the time and then went gw2 -> XIV), and it was very confusing. We ended up making second chars and going to play Legion instead, and that felt much better. Still some Confusing bits, but not as much.
@@Acquilla7 Hope you enjoyed Legion as best you could! It's my favourite.
@@edd_TV Thank you! Yeah, had a good time with it! Got really invested in all the stuff with the nightborne.
@@Acquilla7 Suramar was so good!
The new player experience can be crucial to a game, especially when they introduce content through the story.
I started playing Destiny 2 in 2019, bought it shortly before it went free to play, to join an established group of friends.
The new player experience was not a very useful one, I constantly had to be told which NPC was used for content, I had no introduction to the story and no idea who the NPC's were, why they mattered or where to unlock dungeons/raids.
As a result of this complete disconnect with the game world, when they froze progression for my favorite weapons I stopped playing, as I could no longer play the way I liked and keep up with the content outside of pvp matches.
That sounds frustrating, I'm sorry to hear that. Thank you for your comment!
Excellent vid! I completely agree! Id do something like give a choise between a regular chromie/bfa fast leveling and a much more slower "cinematic leveling" or "main story questline" where you get to see the most important parts of each expasion while leveling, lets call it a curated highlight reel haha, guided by chromie (or not, so you feel that you were actually there and not just cheating your way in) and the main characters, also serving in a tutorial sort of thing. So you do the most important quests, see the most important cutscenes and play in a follower dungeon type of thing the most important raids and dungeons. And once you reach the end of the second to last xpac you are max lvl for that xpac and you are ready for the new one.
I wouldnt call it a way too relive the past xpacs but for of a guided tour thru the story, might as well even add some new cutscenes to skip questlines or summarise otherwise long or tedius content. Heck Id play something like that even tho im here since WotLK
Thank you! I think a guided tour is definitely better, because it can't be TOO time consuming otherwise nobody is going to want to do it. You run the risk of people disengaging. If it was like FFXIV where you were expected to go from TBC right the way through until Dragonflight, it would just be so overwhelming.
One of the best ways for a new player to actually play through the game's previous expansions is... Insane. Like currently it requires buying dragonflight, doing a class trial to trick the game into letting you do Chromie time, and then actually going through the expansions, and freezing your level at 59. Like WoW has become more Insular I recognize, but it is going to be even more insular if it entirely rejects New players who are interested in the story.
I didn't even think about that; tricking the game into letting you do Chromie Time. The lengths you have to go to, eh? Thanks for your comment!
NP, least I can do was give engagement for something I am heavily agreeing with at this time (Since I am 'leveling' while trying to actually pick up on the story I never got originally. Though seeing the classic versions of zones is soon going to be impossible unless someone enjoys the idea of Hardcore WoW or using a 3rd party service.)
@@fleshhunter8703 I appreciate it!
17:30
WoW has a few times where it'll reference things you've actually done. I remember Bolvar would recognize you in Dragonblight if you did the big Onyxia attunement quest back in the day. I'm also finally levelling one of my older characters through Shadowlands and Lady Vashj had an extra gossip option since that character has actually done SSC.
Great video! Glad the algo sent me here!
Ah that's really cool! I didn't know that with Bolvar! Thank you!
That was exactly my experience with the game. I played WoW first a long time ago in WotLK. I returned for Shadowlands. I got really into the story of Legion and was excited to see it unravel. Suddenly, I reached the final level of scaling and everything was ruined for me. I even attempted to continue, but the fact that I basically blasted through all these powerful enemies with one hit and got no reward for it felt empty and broke the immersion. I ended up going for the Shadowlands content but... yeah, the magic was gone.
This is also such a dramatic shift for me since I'm a Guild Wars 2 player, and in that game the core game takes you to level 80 and then you just never level up higher. It stays at 80 while new, expansion specific, optional progress systems are introduced. It's always worth doing older content because it has different skins, legendary weapons and achivements. People are still grouping en masse for world bosses for lvl 10 and thanks to downscaling they continue to enjoy the fights. They will still farm lower level maps because even the more basic crafting materials are still usable in the lategame.
WoW clearly was inspired by the GW2 mount system in Dragonflight. I wonder why wouldn't they also borrow the GW2 storytelling and leveling experience as well.
A few people have mentioned the GW2 philosophy/system, and it sounds interesting. Any comment I've seen about GW2 has been nothing but praise. That sucks about your experience, it's a damn shame too because Legion is really great. I did read that dragonriding was essentially born through GW2 too. I just don't think the story or levelling journey is something that even comes to mind for them. Their focuses are just on what's relevant, and it's hard to imagine that ever changing. Thank you for your comment!
Really good job, especially as a first video! I would like to see a questline stitching the main events of each expansion together, along with the solo raids idea. I think with the new technology they have it may be feasible, and it would at least give new players a basic understanding of what's going on while fulfilling the need for a decent conclusion in each individual storyline. Looking forward for more content!
That would be a lot of fun! I'd like to see that. I just wonder if it's something they put much thought into. Love the idea of it. Thank you for the kind words!
THIS is your FIRST video!?
I'm in. Subbed. I totally look forward to how you narrate videos and put together your thoughts going forward. Please do not feel a need to rush more content - I look forward to what happens whenever it happens.
It is! I've written another script already which I'll start putting together in the next few weeks. Thanks so much for your kind words, it means a lot. Glad you enjoyed it!
My suggestion is a middle ground, force players to complete the expansion chosen for chromie time, and then make 5-man dungeon versions of core raids that are mandatory to progress and finish them. It would still be alt friendly, might slow the leveling process by a few hours possibly, but would ensure people experience the story.
The 5 man versions of raids could be tuned like a sort of uber dungeon that has like 9 bosses. And could be made only for expansions that are over / raid tiers from 2 patches ago and have some potential gear and cosmetic rewards maybe equal to or slightly less prestigious than the ones in the actual raid.
So basically what would happen is you'd do WOTLK and you'd have to go through HF or BT, and then ZF or DB, and then do Ice Crown and Storm Peaks (or something along these lines) then make you face Malygos at the end of Borean Tundra, make you face Ulduar at the end of Storm Peaks and then make you face the tournament at the start of Icecrown and then ICC at the end of Ice Crown
While they may not get all the chronology, they would have enough of WOTLK understood. Then they could scale the other expansions at their leisure or level an alt. The alt path would probably require them like let's be generous and say about 10 playthroughs to see everything. But it's better than keeping things as they are now, or making us all go back to the dreaded level 60-80 leveling block from the scaled level bracketing of late Legion. I just don't feel like doing every expansion front to back every time I level an alt.
I like that!
Force them to finish the leveling expansion? No. Just No. I get a lot of people think everyone plays the game for story, but a lot of us just want to level. I tried the “catered” MSQ in FF and by Shadowbringers I was so sick of skipping cutscenes, I just quit. Optional sure, forced no. I don’t care about the story in WoW, FF or any other game. I don’t know why Mario saved the princess and don’t care.
@@keithb6344 You clearly have zero imagination. Waste someone else's time.
If you don't care then feel free to skip all the dialogue you want. But WoW doesn't have a bunch of cutscenes so you're basically whining that you'd have to PLAY THE GAME more.
Oh noooo! It might take me 16 hours to get from level 1 to level 60 what ever will I do...
@@kabrozkabroz Yeah, it takes a lot of imagination to come up with a single solution to a problem and force everyone through it. Its a moronic idea for a game that already has multiple ways to level. 16 hours of skipping dialogue is a waste of time if don't care about it. If people want to lock XP and do the whole story they can. They can even put a group together and do the raids at that level. Once again making it an option is fine. Forcing it is just going to put people off.
@@keithb6344 Oh sorry too long, didn't read!
Very well done video! I do like Tali's "Path of the Curator" idea, either way it's nice when the glaring problem with WoW gets some significant attention. I subscribed and looking forward to seeing what else you do!
Yeah, it's really well done. I hope people check it out! Thank you so much for your kind words, it means a lot.
Great first video man, and the audio is very very solid for just starting out. One of the things many new content creaters never get right is Audio, so very well done!
Thank you so much for your kind words!
One of the horrible thing about modern wow is how restricted it is, forcing new players to play a certain expansions. another example is the portal from Teldrasil is restricted untill you get to lvl 10 (they might have changed that by now) the glory of vanilla back in the day is that you would create a character and do what the hell you wanted. you could walk to highets lvl zone in the game if you wanted. there was nothing stopping you.
That's very true. The world felt bigger and more dangerous.
I started playing Wow in BC, and I quite frankly still have all these problems. I think I've loremastered everything up through Pandaria, but I never got to fight the Lich King, because by the time I got there, I could walk through the dungeon, but due to mechanics could not get past the vampire queen. Currently trying to do broken isles on my main and Warlords on another character, and I think I've randomly been exposed to other expansions, but whole thing is shitshow. I think wow was better when characters were just a guy in the world, and not the "champion of light" so to speak, or more accurately, the audience of light.
It's very tough if you weren't there at the time. There is a serious sense of fomo because like you said, if you don't do it when it's current and then eventually decide to check it out, you're overgeared, over levelled and it just simply can't be that same experience it was at the time of release. I feel really passionately about the minimum item level feature from FFXIV, purely because I don't think it hurts anybody, and I think players could have a lot of fun with it. It would make old content relevant and people could organise some fun social nights to remember raids gone by. Thanks for the comment!
"STORY MODE RAIDS WITH STORY-RELEVANT COMPANIONS", this i would play as a new guy, hell, im a new guy in everything from wotlk, idk what has happened since then, and it would be a serious step towards blizzard showing us that, "they care".
Even as a player who experienced it all at that point in time, I'd do it again!
What if blizzard did a level rescale where new players have to spend 10 levels in each expansion, finish a main quest line for each before
“Shardding” into the main course with all the experienced players.
At that point the new players would have a gist of the lore direction.
It could be interesting but it's a lot of moving around. I'm not opposed to the idea of it!
that prontera field background music in the outro really caught me by surprise. Good one!
It's called 'Streamside' if you were curious! Glad you recognised it from Ragnarok! Thanks for the comment!
Wow Edd, if this is your first video... then your channel is a MUST to subscribe to! Well done! Great insights and I so hope someone at Blizz watches this, that might truly fix the leveling experience.
That's really kind of you to say. Thank you so much!
Maybe in WoW you should have a ingame hidden "rank", a adventurer, soldier, general, hero, champion. depending on how far you've reached in the game. how much content you have finished. and it is by this rank the NPC's will refere to you. So if you're a new player, instead of a champion anduin will refer to you as an adventurer.
That could be interesting, and sounds like a solution because they will obviously never address us by our characters names. I think 'champion' is the go-to, but obviously we have had alternatives too like you said: hero, maw walker etc. They do actually use new dialogue when you enter Stormwind Keep off the back of Exile's Reach. I believe Anduin calls you 'recruit', but then you're immediately escalated to 'champion'.
I actually think your idea with the npc dungeons is a great way to solidify the old expansion experiences!
Having a short miniquest that just provides some Chromie-specific introduction to the content would be good too. Like providing a short summary that explains what kicks off the events of the expansion, potentially alongside a small series of quests involving replicating the pre-launch events.
That'd be the dream. That *AND* a hopeful Cata-like event to freshen up the 1-60 experience again, updating the content to be far more relevant.
If they really want to go in more of a character-driven direction, they ought to retroactively involve the npcs in the raid progression through those npc dungeons to culminate an expansion's story.
The dream, indeed! Thanks for your comment!
Great choice of outro music btw, had to do a double take that my headphones didn't unplug from my pc and started playing RO music
Glad you liked it!
Great vid Edd! I hope that some day Blizzard does decide to implement improvements you've mentioned here - I hope they can see the value of it with the success of Classic and how much people enjoy witnessing older content. Looking forward to the next one!
/wave
@@Aventor01 /wave
Thank you!
Azerothian Archives came out and it has nothing to do with what Day was talking about. it tells the story of one Dracthyr battle from the past through a bugged out public event that operates on a timer like prior ones. There's a daily hub with even more bugged and poorly thought out quests. It's really something.
I did see! I was honestly in such a mad rush to get this video out before the launch of patch 10.2.5 that I didn't have time to adjust any of it. I haven't played it personally yet but I've seen some gameplay of it. I can't say I'm surprised it's buggy, hopefully they will address it soon. Thank you for your comment!
The point about characters being forgotten reminds me of the whole issue in BFA of the Alliance having a spaceship and the army of the light and just... never using them.
Good point! I think we'll absolutely be seeing them in the Worldsoul Saga, but it does beg the question when we have these kinds of allies at our disposal and we don't use them, or at least request their aid.
A common complaint I saw of WoW's writing tended to be how there are all these super powerful characters, who just never use their powers. Here's two "god-tier" night elves who... just don't retake their land.@@edd_TV
@@daefaron That's a very valid point. I even think some are explained poorly, or maybe sometimes not even explained. What exactly are the Dragon Aspects 'Aspectral Powers'? What are they going to do now they have these powers back? Good point!
FF14’s model is so close to what I feel is the ‘optimal’ mmo for me. The fact that the main story content is designed to be easily played with random groups or alone is such a big thing for me.
One of my biggest turnoffs of WoW was how the climax of every expansion (fighting the Lich King in your video) was gated behind endgame large group content is a stinky design idea. Same thing with Raids in Destiny
Yeah, I think it's just something that is so very dated now. It's kind of okay in a very weird way with LFR, but it's not exactly a fulfilling experience and is enabled for every expansion. I agree with you that I think FFXIV has nailed the way story is delivered. I just don't think WoW would work if they implemented the same style into it.
Awesome points! I agree whole heartedly! Blizz alrdy has a great way to tell their older stories, the Caverns of time.....make a bronze dragon (Chromie) in ToC have a "story" menu and make some scenarios that players can run through to hit the major plot points of the last 20 years lol. Maybe add some cosmetic items u can get for going though them. I mean look at some of the actual dungeons they have there. It wouldn't be anything to hard to implement, and new players could start off doing those before u head to the "new" expac. They could even add just a few per patch. I've been playing since wotlk and I would love to run through something like that.
The Caverns of Time is a great idea too, considering it had told us so many stories in the past: The Culling of Stratholme, Mount Hyjal etc. I like the idea! Thank you for the comment!
Sunk cost fallacy is exactly that, a fallacy. Why should the average player have to settle for a jumbled disjointed mess just because a couple of people chose to grind out a billion pointless achievements? The game 100% needs a reset, no if or buts.
it's tough, but it is likely the way.
+1 for the ragnarok online song at the end
Glad you liked it!
@edd_TV Ragnarok was my first mmo I ever sunk so many hours into before wow rolled around, so it was instant nostalgia trigger :p
@@bamboebahr2470 Mine too! I was a blacksmith. I miss chilling in Prontera with my little cart of goods. Those were the days. Glad to be able to recall some memories for you!
That's the reason Classic Era and Classic + is so good, the game used to be way more of a sandbox.
It's a lot more community driven too. All professions are relevant and so on. And the world just feels so big and magical.
Great video! I couldn't believe it was your first, I can't wait to see what else you make! As someone who joined in mid-late Cata because my family was too poor for any of us to play before that, I agree that the new player experience needs such a revamp. Even back then, when I was like 12 and new, I found myself wishing I could start from the -beginning-, not just the beginning of that expansion. When I tried out FFXIV in 2015, I was so shocked when you really DID start at the beginning! I like how the story changes with what you've done in FFXIV, even in the smallest ways. I've been trying to get my friends into WoW for years, and it all just feels so daunting to them - they watch hours of lore videos just to catch up and understand what's going on, and that's not even mentioning my friend group all plays on RP realms and are avid RPers, so there's a whole other layer to it. I hope Blizzard updates the experience soon so I can show the people I love the world I fell in love with over ten years ago.
Did you try Classic/TBC/Wrath to try and experience those expansions as they were? I can relate trying to get friends of mine into WoW too, it feels like an impossible task at this point. Thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed it!
@@edd_TV I did try classic, both hardcore (pre-actual hardcore servers) and “regular” classic! I enjoyed it a lot when I played with my friend, but I found myself a bit lonely on my own because I started later on. I did also try wrath but I didn’t even get out of the starting zone because that loneliness crept back up, even with friends waiting for me at the end game. It almost feels like I’m just seeing a glimpse into what was - everyone talks about their nostalgia and how amazing these times were back in the day in trade chat, but it’s my first time seeing it all, and that almost makes me feel othered. It’s hard to fully articulate that feeling!
@@voidVirago Yeah, that's understandable. I'm glad you were able to give them a try, but I think it's impossible to have that true authentic experience because people already know everything. Loneliness is a huge factor too, it's the main reason why retail is dwindling for me. Most of my friends play Classic, particularly Season of Discovery right now, and have no interest in retail. Thank you for your comments!
Great video! I've felt like I'm either missing something or behind every every time I go back would be nice if they did something like you've mentioned!
It can be a very confusing, mad dash, and so much can be unexplained that you may have to go digging for answers, whether it be Wowhead or UA-cam or whatever else. It's frustrating. Thank you for your kind words!
The very thing you're asking for is Timewalking. The only difference is they haven't expanded it to every raid, but each time a specific expansion's timewalking event is up, there is not only the dungeons that scale you down, but there is also a raid that's scaled down you can queue for and fight as if it were that xpac currently, again. BC: Black Temple, Wrath: Ulduar, Cata: Firelands, etc. Also this is acting like you can't just... go back and quest ever again after level cap. Nothing is stopping a player from returning to finish where they left off.
It is. That's why I mention things like the minimum ilvl and food for thought for Timewalking. It just basically needs reinventing I think. Or some life/relevancy injected into it. I think doing Timewalking just for the hope that you're lucky enough to get the mount or the gear reward from the raid is a bit flat. I mean they can go back and finish those quests/zones, but what is the conclusion with the campaign?
It would be really cool if they did a curated time walk Leveling experience with unique quests and cinematics to tell the whole story
I really do think enhancing and revamping Timewalking might be the best thing for them if they wanted to tackle this. Making old content relevant again would be a lot of fun. Syncing down the ilvl/level/gear and jumping into Throne of Thunder, Icecrown Citadel etc. Maybe tie some new rewards and achievements to it, similar to how Fated works. They could also introduce some higher res tier sets of the original, and maybe mounts to give players incentive to take part.
@edd_TV I've said wow has 20 years of lore and all it care about is the current year and forward, the old content just sits and has almost no value
@@omok2 It's a shame.
The Ragnarok Online south Prontera BGM dude... I choked up a tear when I noticed. Instant sub
Glad you liked it! It's always been one of my favourites. Thanks a lot!
@@edd_TV oh yeah, video was really good. Editing and pace wise. Really shows the amount of time you spent on it. Hardly seemed a first video, definitely have a bright future.
Edit: damn typo. The video is good, not goof oof
@@itsmudt That's really kind of you to say. Thanks! Really glad you liked it!
I haven't been a regular player since Cataclysm so this has been illuminating as to the current levelling experience for old and new players alike.
I've been playing classic (and loving it). Story and immersion is what keeps bringing me back to WoW, even if I lost my taste for it as soon as the end of Cataclysm started making us (the player) the Real Heroes (i.e. the dragon aspects stepping down to honour the mortals' rise). So I'm a huge fan of being a background character - a cog in the wheel - making small differences to people's lives everywhere only to eventually heroically defeat The Evil. That's a rewarding story!
However, it's hard to justify that player story arc over and over again. Why would the player NOT be a class leader after killing old gods and dragons and titans? It doesn't make sense to keep being a background character. There may be a balance just above the region of 'getting to cut the line at Valiance Keep' (fantastic point to bring up btw!).
Glad it's not my problem to solve. Thanks for the video, have a sub.
I'm glad you're still able to find some enjoyment in WoW in classic! I'm in a similar boat and have been butting heads with retail for a while now. I played the first season of Dragonflight and then decided to take a break because I didn't know anybody else who still played. I'm optimistic The War Within could be a lot of fun, but I still don't see how it could be a good new player experience. Thank you very much for your engagement and encouragement!
@edd_TV That's something else I hadn't noticed. Despite thinking the mini expansions were adding features to the game that ought to entice me to come back, it still feels inaccessible. You described it as new players feeling like they've "missed the boat", and that's exactly what the new announcement is missing: where is the entry point?
@@EspadaNeliel77 Your guess is as good as mine! It's a difficult one to comprehend because a player would ideally want to come back because they are enticed by something new, so then they have to either rush through (or often ignore) content so they can get to the latest bit. I think the entry point is honestly Warcraft III. That was where I began and fortunately I have been able to see and experience everything, but I couldn't imagine the experience as a new player, assuming they are checking the game out mainly for the story. I think it's so much easier if your goals are simply pvp or end game, but to really delve in and learn the story of Warcraft is such a tall order now.
Remember when you first got out of Northshire Abbey and into the larger Elwynn Forest area...
Will never forget it!
I remember on my first character, a goblin hunter toward the end of MoP, arriving at Org, walking out into Durotar, and over and over again asking myself, "What the heck are these questgivers talking about?"
Not sure why this got recommended to me but I really like that you get straight to the point and don’t spend 3 mins talking about some random stuff. Keep up the good work, man!
Thank you!
Loved this overview. I've been playing since inception - I still remember wanting to be a banshee based on WC3 and choosing undead as my first character because that was the closest thing. And I still play that character. But as someone whose dodged in and out of WoW over the past 20ish years, I get lost a LOT in the story, where to go/what to do next in leveling an alt, and wishing I could re-experience some of the older expansions. But I even struggle to find where to start some of those things.
Just give us a story mode - a playthrough of the major quests in succession, with all those gloriously beautiful cinematics. And for that matter, some "Guides" for things like the class hall mounts and achievements without having to toggle back and forth between various comments on WoWhead would be amazing. There's so much potential for these things.
I think a story mode would be fun. It would require a lot of work but I think it would be worth it for those interested. It's a shame that all those stories are discarded now. There should be a way to enjoy them in their entirety and to celebrate those times and stories. Thank you for watching, I'm glad you liked it!
This video is perfect. If blizzard did exactly this i feel people would be much more invested in the game I know I would!
Thank you so much! Glad you liked it!
Instantly subbed! The "wow" heart and soul that went into this is amazing. Overall great video, loved Mor'ladin getting a shoutout! GIVE US MORE VIDEOS!
THE TRUE LIGHT BRINGER! Ken
Thank you Ken!
I'd love them to start from the beginning, Orcs and Humans, then work their way through the entire story in phases. They could do it SoD phase style where you simply can't get max level for the first playthrough, but it'd require major revamps to bring Eastern Kingdoms to pre-war and reworked Blackrock Mountain to be the capital for the Horde until the WC3 phase.
I'd love to see Stormwind fall and the Alliance move capitals to Lordaeron.
I'd love to see Beyond the Dark Portal via recycling and updating some of the Draenor from Warlords of Draenor, and then even a phase where Draenor breaks as Khadgar destroys the portal.
Then we move to a phase where Horde is embattled and Kalimdor opens up, and then we witness the rise of the Scourge and Lordaeron falls.
The phases would continue into WoW Era, but by the time Naxxaramas rolls around, we follow it up with Northrend instead of Burning Crusade.
Though tbh making an Era of Darkness (WC2 world state) with the Orc/Troll/Ogre/Goblin Horde would be amazing on its own
That sounds awesome. I would love to see that!
BFA was honestly the most fun I'd had in WoW since 2006. Leveling in BGs from 10-Max. On an OP Disc priest. Was a blast. Then I ran out of shit to do.
I'm glad you had fun with it for a while!
Agree with a lot of this. Think there was a discussion a few years ago where people pointed out that a lot of the WoW team were raiders and the game had become more geared towards that. Do wonder if it was about revenue as well though; that raiders made up the larger portion of the player base. Though that could be a chicken and the egg kind of situation; whether the game was already heading that way so the player base reflected that or vice versus.
Is very difficult to move away from that though; as you say - its whether Blizzard consider it being worth it (or should we say Microsoft who potentially may want to see a far more casual experience for console players). Also a lot of those folks who started out 20 years ago probably have their own families now so there's a potential market there.
The issue: WoW has no leveling experience, has no midgame, has no endgame. Retail turned into a bloat of fetch quests. Most people consider logging in to raid or do m+ as 'endgame'. But then it's just a dungeon simulator and not an MMORPG anymore.
That is essentially what I did. It was just mythic+ for me. I did +20 on every key in Season 1 to unlock the portals and thought 'What now?' and just quit. It was a lonely experience for me.
Now we just need the bald man to react to this
I agree mostly with how I dont want to be the hero, I just want to be an adventurer.
A lot of people feel that way too! I think I can take it or leave it. I think I've grown to prefer to be the 'main man' in FFXIV and in WoW I would like to revert back to the way things used to be.
I also think your ideas would be amazing to tell a a somewhat "canon" version of the story. A lot of WoW's story can be weird canonwise but doing what you suggested could provide some bases for a consistent narrative.
I think some stuff is just so very forgettable too, or was quite weighty in the narrative for a while and then never gets talked about or mentioned again. It feels like these stories are important for that time period, and then we close the book on it and start a new one I think this is what The Worldsoul Saga aims to eliminate. It will connect all three future expansions and tell them in a way they have never tried to convey WoW before, which is exciting, but doesn't do much for a newcomer. Thanks for your comment!
@@edd_TV I think it is forgettable because it never become relevant again. When characters are finished with their stories (like Illidan) it causes them to feel like they have no purpose anymore and it can feel weird because it feels like they should be involved more. You are right pointing out how characters are relevant for one expansion and then get forgotten.
It just really sucks because WoW has shown they can make really great stories. But what happens after those stories retroactively makes those previous stories feel weightless.
And thank you for the video. It was really great seeing my own thoughts reflected in such a great way.
@@Knight1029 I agree. I think another example of this is Tess Greymane in 10.2.5 with Gilneas. Just how relevant is she going to become in the future? I would bet probably not very. We've seen it in the past with other characters I've referenced too such as Talanji and Taelia. Illidan is a big name, but I'm sure he's going to have a big part to play in The Worldsoul Saga when the time is right.
I'm pleased to hear you liked it. Thanks a lot!
@@edd_TV yeah. Obviously not ever small character should become main stays but characters like the ones you mentioned where they were huge movers and shakers feel like they need more relevance.
I did! And I hope to see more from you soon!
@@Knight1029 Thank you for your support!
With the bronze dragons, there would be a perfect (lore friendly) way to catch up with WoW history.
There could be an npc that you can talk to, to set you back in time to replay every piece of content someone might want. May it be a questline, a specific event or even a complete expansion. For example, you could visit the old world before the cataclysm, cut content or old versions of dungeons and raids. And with level and item scaling, and the new npc followers for dungeons, this could even be a challenging experience if one might want to.
That would be pretty sweet. I think they would have to offer rewards and incentives for all players to want to do it though, rather than the players desperate to learn the stories and long forgotten or even removed events/questlines. I think if Blizzard can create something like this that makes all (or most) players interested in checking it out, then that would be worth it in their eyes. Love the idea. Thanks for your comment!
@@edd_TV Thank you! I love this game and I played it for more than a decade, but it felt odd to me after a longer break. I would love to come back if something that way would be implemented.
And thank you for your video! I hope, you will have an awesome comunity and career here on youtube! @@edd_TV
@@reneputtlitz618 That's really nice of you to say. Thanks a lot for your comments and kind words!
great video - keep this up and youll build your channel tenfold
Thank you so much! Will do!
Loved your video! I have been saying SO much of this for years. Especially about the new player experience. I would like to add that I have high hopes for the integration of the AI dungeons, as it's a tool they could VERY easily use to do those type of Story dungeons, and story raids for each expansion. Even if it's not a leveling experience, I believe the option to go back and experience the expansions at the correct level would still be something new players would want to do, especially if it had capstones to the story that allowed you to run the story of the raids and why you were there. Obviously, a lot of work. But if WoW is improving their end game and new expansion leveling experience, they need to bring the previous expansions if not to the same level, at least up to a level that people will resonate with.
It's so bittersweet to hear that people resonate with this. I love that I'm not alone with my thoughts and feelings here, but I'm also sad that people have been having these experiences and likely end up quitting the game entirely because of it. I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying. Thank you for your kind words and comment!
Frankly, I think the only way of making any sense of the whole plot in a cohesive manner would be a WHOLE WORLD revamp, but also with the design philosophy that zone's plots should be "evergreen". Think how zones are in vanilla: There are conflicts, yes, but the zones aren't necessarily stuck in in time, or at least, they're not stuck in particular brief time periods like later expansions are (Especially the likes of cataclysm or BFA)
Granted this would be a MASSIVE undertaking, and even then the benefit they'd get from it is... Dubious at best, as most of that is unlikely to actually be played by current players who already have all their character leveled up.
Wow is a 20 year old game. There's no cure for that. It's crushed under the weight of its past selves.
So true. I don't think they could have ever anticipated almost 20 years of the game. When I started playing at the age of 13-14, I never thought I'd still be interested in it now! A world revamp would be really cool but I wonder how it could happen.
ive had this idea for a while, honestly, i think a timewalking quest line or timeline if you prefer where chromie walks you though major events and quest through each expansion up to the new one would be my idea, logistically its probably a shit ton of work, but it would build a solid foundation that wont become outdated for new players. new expansion? add on to the quest line from the previous, make the xp appropriate so people dont have to go back and when they finish that quest line they can immediately jump into the current expansion and continue the story. as for dungeon que just lump every expansion classic to current into the random que. would make times way faster and wouldnt be too disorenting as the loading screen tells you what xpac youre doing a dungeon in .
I think TImewalking is probably the answer. Revitalising Timewalking and offering new rewards and incentives to take part in it would be great. It would allow new players to get a taste of what content was like back then and players helping them achieve these goals could still have some fun and feel that their time isn't being wasted. Thank you for your comment!
@@edd_TVyes! Make a main quest that gives good xp, weaves in and out of the expansions hitting all the focal points, throw in some toys and transoms and the problem is solved. Hope blizzard sees this! Haha
@@dustinmorse7975 Gear will always be the biggest incentive to most players sadly. I love the idea of transmog and toys being rewards. They could remodel the older Transmog sets and bump up their quality. Or even just offer recolours. I think it would be enough for collectors to go after them. I think there is A LOT of possibilities with both follower dungeons and timewalking, and if people don't like it they don't have to engage with it. I don't see how it hurts anyone.
Illidan dissenchanting Gul'dan had me dead 😂😂😂
Glad you enjoyed it!
"Illidan disenchanting Guldan" was epic. As for your arguments, I think you have mostly good points, we shouldn't have to be dumped out of Chromie Time automatically and it really shouldn't force first time players into BfA. As a player since Vanilla, though, I like being the "Champion", and one of the things that galled me about BfA was I went from Legion as the freakin' DEATHLORD with my own flying fortress and Illidan himself praising you for assisting on world quests to "Oh, Kul Tiran's are gonna chuck you into the dungeon" on the Alliance side, and on Horde side Nathanos was crapping on you every time you accepted a world quest. The Alliance BfA start should have had the option to nope out of the arrest attempt - seriously, a high level PC should have been able to just walk out leaving behind a trail of knocked out/dead guards dumb enough to try and stop them - and immediately jump to working with Cyrus.
The transition from Legion to BFA really did kill a lot of stuff, I agree. We lost our artifacts and so many cool things that came with it. We also lost the use of our legendaries, and going from that power into Azerite...it didn't stand a chance. BFA felt like a miserable levelling experience after all the fun we had in Legion. You're so right too about the story and fantasy with our characters.You would have been the Deathlord and I would have been the Highlord, and as soon as BFA rolls around..it's just a chapter that's over now. Thanks for your comment!
Great first video!
Thank you very much!
IMO there need to be an option for totally new player to start their journey like how a vanilla player walk out of Northshire, you slowly go through each expansion, with a guiding main story line to follow, like what they do in FFXIV. This story line doesn't have to use all zone, but at least, the player should be guided through the expansion at a somewhat accelerated pace without losing any major story point. I understand this had to be optional, would be too extreme of a change to turn WOW into story first raid later, but if the game is to retain new player, expecting every new player to buy a boost, server change, then start raiding for entire expansion is simply not realistic.
I love the idea of it, but it's such a time commitment. And with Blizzard saying that they are aiming to get expansions out quicker going forward. It would be such a climb I think for a player who wanted to take their time and really absorb everything. It would have to be a completely different game at this point I think. I really like it, I just don't think Blizzard could ever justify it.
Great video dude, I think a massive issue with WoW is the story has gone pretty doolaly without explaining everything. Nothing has a conclusion anymore, each expansion ends on a cliff hanger, its exhausting!!
Thanks a lot, glad you liked it!
Hey man amazing video. I don’t know if it will get traction at blizzard, but honestly these videos always give me hope it will. They always remind me I’m not insane for thinking and saying these things, and that lots of people in the community in fact do care for the story and want it told better. So thanks for starting my day off good, and I can’t wait to see your next video.
Thank you for your kind words! Glad you liked it!
If WoW 2 is released and they don’t give us our mount collection then I’ll never play, only just got the ashes of al’ar yesterday xD
Understandable. It's one of the best mounts!
been thinking about this same topic a ton recently too, I even started writing a video, so thanks for doing the work :3
I'm glad it's not just on my mind! Thanks for watching, hope you enjoyed it!
Nice first video, wish you the best of luck as a content creator!
That's very kind of you. Thank you very much!
I'm really excited on TWW as Exile's Reach will directly lead into Dragonflight as the new main leveling Experience. Incl. Dragonriding/Dynamic Flight very early on.
Combined with the Follower-Dungeons lead by Cpt. Garrick and the very same Expedition-Members you've encountered and bond with on Exile's Reach to close off each Zone's Main-Storyline, I think this will be a much smoother Start into the Game for new & returning Players. As you'll have a steady growth in Story & Reputation throughout the Dragon Isles where at the End you (& everyone who helped) are crowned & entitled as "Champion of the Dragonflights" giving other NPCs a logical Reason to refer to you as "Champion" outside of DF.
You'll also know Chromie by then and when you do a new Character and she suddenly pops up and offers you to experience a different History, you'll be much more engaged in doing so.
I really, really hope Blizz will adapt the "Path of the Curator" for a streamlined Campaign through the Old Xpacs hitting you with "Max. Level minus 10" right the Moment you finish the Story.
For example where as you will only get XP from Campaign Quests and nothing else during Chromie Time.
BUT even without PotC, the new Exile's Reach -> Dragonflight -> The War within / Worldsoul Saga should be a much better Experience for everyone. :D
The connection with Garrick and the follower dungeons is a really nice touch. Yeah, I think Tali's 'Path of the Curator' could still have a place in WoW in some capacity. It would be good if people could play through the stories even with zero experience gains if they were that keen on seeing the stories, or Chromie Time could offer a more authentic and complete experience for alt characters. I hope you're right! Thank you for the comment!
@@edd_TV Thank you for taking your time reading through your comments and answering. A rare sight these days. Cheers
@@MortimerFolchert You're very welcome. I'm happy to engage and listen to anybody's thoughts/views! Thank you for watching!
First video?! GG
Thank you!
You did a really good job making this video. I really thought you are doing this a long time. It feels so professional with all these Sounds from the Game, the Pictures, Video-Clips but also your Voice. I also really liked the Topic you chose and i hope there are going to be more great Videos following. I would really appreciate it, if Blizzard would add some type of archive to sum up. That would give me as an long time player also a chance to bring back the Memories of old Times in WOW History and make the story more clear.
That's so nice. Thank you, it really means a lot!
This dude just named his channel Edd, uploaded a banger video out of nowhere and gained 40k views, what a chad. Keep it up mate! Great and insightful video, many things you’ve shown here I actually never thought about as a long time player
Edd is just my name, haha. I've legitimately always been horrendous when it comes to aliases or anything of the like! I used to play a lot of competitive Counter-Strike: Source and even then I just used the name 'edd'. That's really kind of you to say, thank you so much!
@@edd_TV Maybe that’s part of the charm that helped your video grow - just simply your name and your photo. No fancy logos and graphics, comes across as more genuine and honest. But the video obviously was well made and you put a lot of work into it. Keep it up! Looking forward to your next one
@@MichaelLoda You might be right. Thanks a lot for your kind words and support!
Also want to say that this video was made amazingly especially if it is your first or one of your first published videos, you have a very promising future in content if you keep it up, im always happy to hear a fresh voice talking about wow and to have such interesting points and perspectives is nice and i dont even play anymore (started as a kid in TBC with mum, loved rogues, death knights and hunter's, you hit the nail on the head with new player experience as all my siblings have tried wow and even pre legion it got confusing to them let alone chromie time, my personal opinion is one linear story path per character, yes be able to opt in and out for min maxxers but actually reward someone who only wants to be a death knight in northrend or a demon hunter in outland, argus broken isles etc, good luck with the future
That's awesome about playing it with your mum! That's a shame about your siblings experiences. Thank you so much for the kind words, I really appreciate it!
@@edd_TV it was one of the best parts of my childhood sharing those moments with her, every big event, release, boss etc the hype just filled the house lol, much love!
@@Cainegcb-uz7euNice memories to have, thank you for sharing!
Nice one Edd!
Thank you! 👊
First video? I think you bloody nailed it Edd, take my sub, Looking forward to watching your channel grow.
WoW's Ironman? I fell like that would of actually been warcraft 3, the original, not the reforged, it set up so much for Vanilla, TBC and WotLk to follow, characters, location, factions, it's all in there.
That's really kind of you to say, thanks a lot! And I agree with you. I think Warcraft 3 is the best place to start if people feel they can stomach an RTS. Reforged was so disappointing, but you're right, there is so much setup there. Thanks for your comment!
Subscibing becouse of the ragnarok music at the end
One of my favourite tracks in the game! Thank you!