Hey man, I got my 235i Dec 23 2018 and last summer I had an incident with a pothole that punctured the transmission belly pan which resulted in the transmission becoming a brick. I had to get that all fixed up and after everything it ended up being just shy of $15,000. Luckily the road i was on there were a crazy amount of potholes that were never fixed so I actually took legal action against the county and won the entire amount of damage. So now I have a brand new transmission thanks to a poorly maintained road 😁
Damn, I hit a median at night with no reflectors, it was literally a pointless spot to have it there. Anyways it cracked my transmission pan and I had to tow my car home.
@@mujjuman I wasnt all to sure either but since it was a road leading onto the base i was stationed at I was able to ask some people from work about it and we figured it out collectively.
Dude, we all do stupid things. A few weeks ago I was servicing my ignition parts on my N54. I went to put my my spark plug back in, and using a cheap torque wrench I over-torqued my spark plug so much that it snapped. So my threads to the plug were TIGHT and stuck inside the head.... I started looking things up after I got over my panic attack. I thought the only way to fix this was removing the head and easy-outing it. Fortunately like you, I had a magical local mechanic that found a way to get it out for me for $80. Stupid stuff happens to all of us. Own up to it and just find a way to fix it. Good video man, good luck.
I Forgot to put in the oil after draining it on my e90 m3 and started the car and drove it out of my garage and shut it off right away and started going on the forums ASAP. Good times
Real talk here man, I did that on my M2. I wanted to switch to an ECS magnetic plug and jacked it up in the exact same way that you did. Had to get it rethreaded at the dealer for about $200. Things happen and we learn from it!
Awesome my brother! That's why I watch, and other people do as well! Your pure explanations of what could happen, don't do, and paid lessons, as well as all the mods and apps that are available. All DIY guys should take notes! Good stuff Bro!
Tip from a mechanic...a technique called backing the bolt in. Put the plug bolt up to the hole (straight) and turn it backwards until you feel slight click. Then turn the right direction. This click is the threads matching up. I too own a BMW. A 2016 650i xdrive gran coupe
Been there, done that. Sucks when you realize it. But, you just keep moving on and learn from your mistakes. Liking your videos as I'm considering purchasing an M235i. Thank you for your content.
Similar thing happened to me on my transmission (my MK3 Supra). I over tightened the drain plug and cracked the transmission housing. Temporarily I put some sealant around the drain plug which worked great. Eventually I ended up removing the transmission and bringing the housing to get welded and re-tapped.
The honest is so heart warming. Wanted a bmw since middle school but couldn’t afford one and due to people getting in my ears about how “unreliable” the cars are. But in reality, if you get over the fear of a car engine bay, it’s not hard to maintain these cars. The fact that you were honest about a simple mistake helps to get rid of the stigma of bmws as being “money pits”. Love to you from Atlanta
I work at a jiffy lube and BMW’s come in all the time with this issue. People don’t torque properly and the steel bolt just cuts into the aluminum pan. Sorry to hear it happen to you. Hopefully you can get it fixed soon
I've got the same car and was sorting another common issue with this car which is the radiator vent hose failing. Basically, i got the replacement but it was trial and error getting it fitted, took me 2 attempts to fit the hose to the coolant pipe when i realised you needed something stronger than your own fingers to fit it on. Then a further 2 days to bleed the coolant system.
Dude,..it wasn't that you "Over Tightened",...you simply "Crossed Threads"! The oil was leaking because the Drain Plug metal gasket (a crush-ring) wasn't sealed against the oil pan! Some folks think tightening an oil plug is the same as torquing down a lug nut! Nope! Note even close. I would imagine without even checking that it only requires about 20 ft-lbs of torque,..if that! Note: It would be good of you to leave a note in the vehicle somewhere and notify future owners that they MUST use the oversize OIL Drain plug going forward,.....unless,...they replace the Oil pan! Just say'n.... Glad you got the issue taken care of at a low cost,...as you basically did a "kludge",...albeit, a mechanical kludge that only required one part! ;-)
Cross threads a tight thread. Good on you for owning up to it. Everyone crossthreads something at some point, then we learn the invaluable lesson of fingerthreading first :)
It’s not hard to make a mistake like this, that is why I hesitate to do any work on my BMW until I get a torque wrench, because EVERY bolt in the car should be torqued to spec in order to avoid these problems.
Maybe the solution is to learn the correct amount of twisting torque from the user manual and use a torque wrench, then tighten it properly. What else can be done to bypass these issues?
Definitely the worst when something as simple as an oil change turns into a massive headache!! Shit happens though bro so no worries. I been there to bro so I feel you!!
I had the same thing happen on my 335 f30, ended up retapping and putting in a magnetic drain plug that is removed with a pair of pliers, no more stripping
If it happens again, get yourself an oil drain plug repair kit online. Retap the oil pan, install the drain plug kit and get a magnetic drain plug (helps attract any metal shavings that might be present in the pan). Saves ya a bunch of money off having to replace the oil pan!
Don't worry man we all make dumb mistakes but at least it makes us learn. I jacked up my M235i on the wrong spot last month and broke the electronic power steering assembly. Ended up costing me $4k to fix
So I'm about to give up on my e60. The thing that did her in was my intolerance of the interior squeaks. Does your M235i have Any interior squeaks? Even on rough roads, potholes, bumps, in even pavement? I know your in So Cal so your weather is much better than mine here in NJ. Can anyone give me tips? I'm thinking of F10 with about 70k miles I can get em for about 20k
Sucks man! FYI I have a 2016 and have had quite a few issues with my car. Just the other day the abs wheel speed sensor failed. $575. Car has 75k miles. Some other things that went bad were charge pipe, I drive screen, passenger seat, some thin plastic radiator hose broke. I love the car but not so much now that it’s out of warranty
I know the hose you are talking about. It goes often on these coming nearer to 100k. Mine went at 82k. Same goes for charge pipe. Commonly known weak point and worth the upgrade either way tbh. I think generally they are reliable besides the typical BMW bs here and there.
that does suck man, but relatively speaking those seem like minor issues aside from the iDrive screen. hopefully you have an upgraded chargepipe right now!
bro when youre working on your own car, its better to just use a ratchet mostly. the feel you have with your hand is infinitely better than any impact/electrical drivers
Did you have a brass crush washer on the drain bolt? In my experience most of those kits come with a new washer for each time you change the oil and it fills that gap between where the threads of the bolt end and the bolt head.
I took my car in for an oil change at a shop in my small rural town. The guy didn’t thread my plug in properly. Not too sure what I should do as I don’t have the receipts, but they do. I’m wondering if I should go in and act like nothing is up and when he finds out it’s cross threaded I’ll point my finger at him saying he was the last one too touch it. Not sure what I should do though
that's a bit of a tricky situation man! if they tightened it down with an impact gun they are for sure to blame. fortunately there are relatively simple solutions to this problem.
Simply Car Things lol thanks for the reply bro. I’ll get it sorted, $50 isnt too bad to have it re tapped, did your guy give you a deal on that? Or would that be about the average a shop will charge?
@@NewDesignVinylGraphics they didn't give me a deal, that's just their standard charge for that service. but i think it can range anywhere from like $50-$200, but again im not fully sure since this was the first time i encountered an issue like this
@@SimplyCarThings tanks man. Nice video bey the way. I find at your video the most clear difference between bmw engine, and that is a big support for being one. Well dann
Maybe add the correct torque spec in your description for your viewers.. i don't know what it is off hand but probably doubt its more than 20 ft-lb.. should thread by hand very easy and always grab that torque wrench. I did the same thing in a rush 10 years ago on one of my bikes a sv1000s did the same process put in a flat head screw driver and eased it out. Used rectorseal for the thread and a fat crush washer worked for at least 6 more oil changes until i sold that bike.
I tried searching for the torque spec but couldn't find a solid number that was confirmed. I've read a lot of people saying 18 ft/lbs but didnt want to post it on here if it wasnt correct. let me know if you find the correct value!
Bro imma roast you bad! I’m just kidding. Respect to you for owning up to it bro. You are only a human. I make some of the most dumbest mistakes but I’m like whatever man. It happened, it happened. We’re all gonna die eventually lol. It’s all part of being a human.
Im glad your cars been good so far. Cant say the same. with 65k miles on my car, I've had to replace the rear diff, front diff, front right axle four times, hpfp, chargepipe, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, oil filter housing gasket, spark plugs, coils, and one injector. Recently my belt snapped from my oil pressure sensor leaking after my ofhg change and am 70% sure it got through the front main seal. Replaced my belt, tensioner, and all pulleys. Now need to remove oil pan again to clean it out from any belt and the oil pickup aswell. Ive had the car for 7 months.
Liqui Moly oils are Superior quality and German manufactured engine oil that has been tested and approved by BMW in Germany under Longlife-04 standards. It has an API (American Petroleum Institute) rating of SM, and it’s rated by the ACEA (European Automobile Manufacturers’ Assoc.) as A3-04/B4-04/C3-04. This is all on the Liqui Moly label. (And we know how the Germans feel about accurate labels.) Try to find ratings on Castrol BMW 5W-30, but the Castrol web site refers you to BMW, and the BMW web site* offers no data. It is also well known to be used in most BMW race teams in Germany.Castrol oil is JUNK compared to Liqui Moly. Plus anyone who just adds oil and does not change oil & filter when recommended is just being lazy and shorting the life span of the motor very quickly.Why I know because i'm a BMW Master Mechanic! www.liqui-moly.com/en.html
FEEL FREE TO ROAST ME lol, i know i messed up smh
Simply Car Things nah man this is why its my favorite channel, its relatable happens to the best of us lol
Sonny D it does man, thanks for watching 🤙🏼
You should look into a Fumoto drain plug that makes it so much easier to change your oil without having to take the drain plug out itself!
@@83096Ryan i will definitely take a look!
@@83096Ryan Thanks for reminding me of these, I've been meaning to install one!!!
Hey man, I got my 235i Dec 23 2018 and last summer I had an incident with a pothole that punctured the transmission belly pan which resulted in the transmission becoming a brick. I had to get that all fixed up and after everything it ended up being just shy of $15,000. Luckily the road i was on there were a crazy amount of potholes that were never fixed so I actually took legal action against the county and won the entire amount of damage. So now I have a brand new transmission thanks to a poorly maintained road 😁
Damn, I hit a median at night with no reflectors, it was literally a pointless spot to have it there. Anyways it cracked my transmission pan and I had to tow my car home.
dang! that's awesome man, glad to hear the ending had a positive result!
i had teh same problem a few years back but i didnt know how to seek legal action
Where was this to?
@@mujjuman I wasnt all to sure either but since it was a road leading onto the base i was stationed at I was able to ask some people from work about it and we figured it out collectively.
I broke one of my mirrors installing my mirror caps & sequential lights on the f32 lol, we all learn from mistakes
indeed we learn from our mistakes and move on, haha
i like how your honest man, great story bro! hope the 2er doesnt run into any more issues man
thank you man! yea, it really was a dumb mistake but figured I would just let you all know as a word of caution
Simply Car Things Hope to run into you soon lmao I know your close to my area man hahahahaha also your content is great bro! Don’t stop man!
@@xinitialc thank you for your support! I will keep uploading for you guys!
Dude, we all do stupid things. A few weeks ago I was servicing my ignition parts on my N54.
I went to put my my spark plug back in, and using a cheap torque wrench I over-torqued my spark plug so much that it snapped. So my threads to the plug were TIGHT and stuck inside the head.... I started looking things up after I got over my panic attack. I thought the only way to fix this was removing the head and easy-outing it.
Fortunately like you, I had a magical local mechanic that found a way to get it out for me for $80.
Stupid stuff happens to all of us. Own up to it and just find a way to fix it. Good video man, good luck.
i would've had a major "oh shit" moment as well haha, glad to hear you got it resolved and thanks for sharing your experience man!
I Forgot to put in the oil after draining it on my e90 m3 and started the car and drove it out of my garage and shut it off right away and started going on the forums ASAP. Good times
Real talk here man, I did that on my M2. I wanted to switch to an ECS magnetic plug and jacked it up in the exact same way that you did. Had to get it rethreaded at the dealer for about $200. Things happen and we learn from it!
glad to hear im not the only one man! thank you for sharing your experience!
Awesome my brother! That's why I watch, and other people do as well! Your pure explanations of what could happen, don't do, and paid lessons, as well as all the mods and apps that are available. All DIY guys should take notes! Good stuff Bro!
thanks man! yep, just wanted to share and be transparent with you all!
@@SimplyCarThings Word!👍
I'll be extra careful and cautious when tightening all bolts going forward. Thanks for sharing.
Tip from a mechanic...a technique called backing the bolt in. Put the plug bolt up to the hole (straight) and turn it backwards until you feel slight click. Then turn the right direction. This click is the threads matching up. I too own a BMW. A 2016 650i xdrive gran coupe
Been there, done that. Sucks when you realize it. But, you just keep moving on and learn from your mistakes. Liking your videos as I'm considering purchasing an M235i. Thank you for your content.
thanks for supporting the channel!
Similar thing happened to me on my transmission (my MK3 Supra). I over tightened the drain plug and cracked the transmission housing. Temporarily I put some sealant around the drain plug which worked great. Eventually I ended up removing the transmission and bringing the housing to get welded and re-tapped.
The honest is so heart warming. Wanted a bmw since middle school but couldn’t afford one and due to people getting in my ears about how “unreliable” the cars are. But in reality, if you get over the fear of a car engine bay, it’s not hard to maintain these cars. The fact that you were honest about a simple mistake helps to get rid of the stigma of bmws as being “money pits”. Love to you from Atlanta
I work at a jiffy lube and BMW’s come in all the time with this issue. People don’t torque properly and the steel bolt just cuts into the aluminum pan. Sorry to hear it happen to you. Hopefully you can get it fixed soon
thanks man, I got it fixed for $50, but yea it really is an issue I was never aware about
Ouch, always hand thread the plug all the way in without tools.
yea lesson learned i didnt hand thread it all the way in
oil changes so "simple" yet i make the most mistakes doing my own oil changes lol
Sadly did the same thing, snapped the top bold right off, luckily managed to use my finger to get the bolt out, but i burned the tip of my finger 😂😂
appreciate you sharing your experience! it gets the best of us lol
I've got the same car and was sorting another common issue with this car which is the radiator vent hose failing. Basically, i got the replacement but it was trial and error getting it fitted, took me 2 attempts to fit the hose to the coolant pipe when i realised you needed something stronger than your own fingers to fit it on. Then a further 2 days to bleed the coolant system.
Dude,..it wasn't that you "Over Tightened",...you simply "Crossed Threads"! The oil was leaking because the Drain Plug metal gasket (a crush-ring) wasn't sealed against the oil pan! Some folks think tightening an oil plug is the same as torquing down a lug nut! Nope! Note even close. I would imagine without even checking that it only requires about 20 ft-lbs of torque,..if that!
Note: It would be good of you to leave a note in the vehicle somewhere and notify future owners that they MUST use the oversize OIL Drain plug going forward,.....unless,...they replace the Oil pan! Just say'n.... Glad you got the issue taken care of at a low cost,...as you basically did a "kludge",...albeit, a mechanical kludge that only required one part! ;-)
I used a fluid extractor to change my oil. no more dealing with getting under the car.
Cross threads a tight thread. Good on you for owning up to it. Everyone crossthreads something at some point, then we learn the invaluable lesson of fingerthreading first :)
thank you, yes its bound to happen at some point haha but just gotta learn from your mistakes!
It’s not hard to make a mistake like this, that is why I hesitate to do any work on my BMW until I get a torque wrench, because EVERY bolt in the car should be torqued to spec in order to avoid these problems.
Omar love your honesty we all make mistakes don’t beat yourself up take care Bro 😎
you dodged a bullet with that one man! i did the same thing on my first car before i got my M2 which was a 2010 civic 😂
i really did man, lesson learned haha
Just invest in a good torque wrench.
Maybe the solution is to learn the correct amount of twisting torque from the user manual and use a torque wrench, then tighten it properly. What else can be done to bypass these issues?
Definitely the worst when something as simple as an oil change turns into a massive headache!! Shit happens though bro so no worries. I been there to bro so I feel you!!
appreciate that man! it does suck, but it was a great learning experience and i know it wont happen again! lol
Thanks for this video. But what’s the correct amount of torque?
I had the same thing happen on my 335 f30, ended up retapping and putting in a magnetic drain plug that is removed with a pair of pliers, no more stripping
Things like this happen, don't be too hard on yourself. Glad you found a cost effective solution. Keep your head up 👍
very good point. thanks, Fritz! appreciate the support
Hell yea, I'm glad you were able to retap it.
If it happens again, get yourself an oil drain plug repair kit online. Retap the oil pan, install the drain plug kit and get a magnetic drain plug (helps attract any metal shavings that might be present in the pan). Saves ya a bunch of money off having to replace the oil pan!
thanks! yea i had my current pan re-tapped and that took care of the issue
You're only helping others by posting this video.
thank you, that's what i hope for haha
When your dealing with your car hand thread every screw
Don't worry man we all make dumb mistakes but at least it makes us learn. I jacked up my M235i on the wrong spot last month and broke the electronic power steering assembly. Ended up costing me $4k to fix
sheeesh! sorry to hear that man, but yes we all do make dumb mistakes lol
Go by hand as far as it will go, you should be able to get it all the way. Then just a quarter turn should seal it up.
Would have been a good time to upgrade to the M2 oil pan which has better baffling/oiling.
Had this issue on my e30. Glad u were able to retap. Mine was tapped multiple times don’t freak if happens again 😂
okay cool, im glad to hear that cause i was freaking out! lol
So I'm about to give up on my e60. The thing that did her in was my intolerance of the interior squeaks. Does your M235i have Any interior squeaks? Even on rough roads, potholes, bumps, in even pavement? I know your in So Cal so your weather is much better than mine here in NJ. Can anyone give me tips? I'm thinking of F10 with about 70k miles I can get em for about 20k
Sucks man! FYI I have a 2016 and have had quite a few issues with my car. Just the other day the abs wheel speed sensor failed. $575. Car has 75k miles. Some other things that went bad were charge pipe, I drive screen, passenger seat, some thin plastic radiator hose broke. I love the car but not so much now that it’s out of warranty
I know the hose you are talking about. It goes often on these coming nearer to 100k. Mine went at 82k. Same goes for charge pipe. Commonly known weak point and worth the upgrade either way tbh. I think generally they are reliable besides the typical BMW bs here and there.
that does suck man, but relatively speaking those seem like minor issues aside from the iDrive screen. hopefully you have an upgraded chargepipe right now!
bro when youre working on your own car, its better to just use a ratchet mostly. the feel you have with your hand is infinitely better than any impact/electrical drivers
yep, and what's funny is with this bolt I did use a wrench. no impact/electrical tools used here
Did you have a brass crush washer on the drain bolt? In my experience most of those kits come with a new washer for each time you change the oil and it fills that gap between where the threads of the bolt end and the bolt head.
yes! good point actually. It did come with a washer which I used when tightening the bolt but I think i just took it at a bad angle
Stuff happens man, glad you caught it before you went out driving. Good luck with the car!
thank you man! appreciate the support
Awesome video! Question where did you get those side mirrors ? I need those on my 235
I cross threaded 2 of 3 bolts on my blow off valve lol.
I took my car in for an oil change at a shop in my small rural town. The guy didn’t thread my plug in properly. Not too sure what I should do as I don’t have the receipts, but they do. I’m wondering if I should go in and act like nothing is up and when he finds out it’s cross threaded I’ll point my finger at him saying he was the last one too touch it. Not sure what I should do though
that's a bit of a tricky situation man! if they tightened it down with an impact gun they are for sure to blame. fortunately there are relatively simple solutions to this problem.
Simply Car Things lol thanks for the reply bro. I’ll get it sorted, $50 isnt too bad to have it re tapped, did your guy give you a deal on that? Or would that be about the average a shop will charge?
@@NewDesignVinylGraphics they didn't give me a deal, that's just their standard charge for that service. but i think it can range anywhere from like $50-$200, but again im not fully sure since this was the first time i encountered an issue like this
what jackstands do you use when you get the car up for oil changes?
Hey bro I’m looking to do an oil change for my f30 335i. What engine oil do you use? I live here in southern California
Are you on springs?
Yes he is on H & R springs if I remember correctly
i need springs for my car lol
Shit happens man. You learned from it, and apply what you’ve learned in future wrenching. 😎👍
Hey man, I'm thinking of tuning my m235i but not sure if that will make the car prone to unforeseeable issues. Please advise.
generally speaking it shouldnt affect the reliability as long as you stay on top of your normal maintenance and dont beat the crap out of the car
What's the color featured in the thumbnail picture?
I believe it's partially BMW's fault. They should have made the oil pan alloy stronger.
this happened to me to in my old 330ci e46 i fucked up had to replace the oil pan too smh
Every nut & bolt on a BMW should always be hand tighten 1st. Because almost everything is made out of aluminum now a days
very true, I hand tightened it but the bolt didnt thread correctly and that was where my issue arose from
You are good man 👍🏻💯….. respect ✊
thank you brotha 🙌🏼
I have a question. Stage 1 for m235i dassent make problem for engine?? I ask you to be shore if is OK to make stage 1 for my 235i
you’ll be fine! just upgrade your chargepipe before you tune!
@@SimplyCarThings tanks man. Nice video bey the way. I find at your video the most clear difference between bmw engine, and that is a big support for being one. Well dann
Maybe add the correct torque spec in your description for your viewers.. i don't know what it is off hand but probably doubt its more than 20 ft-lb.. should thread by hand very easy and always grab that torque wrench. I did the same thing in a rush 10 years ago on one of my bikes a sv1000s did the same process put in a flat head screw driver and eased it out. Used rectorseal for the thread and a fat crush washer worked for at least 6 more oil changes until i sold that bike.
I tried searching for the torque spec but couldn't find a solid number that was confirmed. I've read a lot of people saying 18 ft/lbs but didnt want to post it on here if it wasnt correct. let me know if you find the correct value!
BMW in Roseville Ca says 25 Nm or 18.4 ft-lb
My n26 blew up because of low oil I had this problem once too
sorry to hear that man
What year is yours?
Mine was a 2015 model year
I got a used n55 electric steering oil pan
I know I’m guilty of doing this I’m sure a lot of other ppl have too
i knew i couldnt be the only one haha!
18.4 ft lbs torque for drain plug on N55 engine
thank you for the info!
lmao dude actually think it was a good idea to fill up the engine with oil despite the cross threaded. smooth brain expecting sth better
Bro imma roast you bad! I’m just kidding. Respect to you for owning up to it bro. You are only a human. I make some of the most dumbest mistakes but I’m like whatever man. It happened, it happened. We’re all gonna die eventually lol. It’s all part of being a human.
thank you man! yes, indeed we are all human and at times make dumb mistakes for sure lol
Im glad your cars been good so far. Cant say the same. with 65k miles on my car, I've had to replace the rear diff, front diff, front right axle four times, hpfp, chargepipe, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, oil filter housing gasket, spark plugs, coils, and one injector. Recently my belt snapped from my oil pressure sensor leaking after my ofhg change and am 70% sure it got through the front main seal. Replaced my belt, tensioner, and all pulleys. Now need to remove oil pan again to clean it out from any belt and the oil pickup aswell. Ive had the car for 7 months.
Dont u have warranty till 80k miles?
What model do you have?
Lol wtf
😱
I have a 12' 335i xDrive E92
Dude you drive a 3 litre not a v10 why you do a oil change just top it up and plus you didnt even use bmw recommendation (castrol) ?
Liqui Moly oils are Superior quality and German manufactured engine oil that has been tested and approved by BMW in Germany under Longlife-04 standards. It has an API (American Petroleum Institute) rating of SM, and it’s rated by the ACEA (European Automobile Manufacturers’ Assoc.) as A3-04/B4-04/C3-04. This is all on the Liqui Moly label. (And we know how the Germans feel about accurate labels.)
Try to find ratings on Castrol BMW 5W-30, but the Castrol web site refers you to BMW, and the BMW web site* offers no data. It is also well known to be used in most BMW race teams in Germany.Castrol oil is JUNK compared to Liqui Moly. Plus anyone who just adds oil and does not change oil & filter when recommended is just being lazy and shorting the life span of the motor very quickly.Why I know because i'm a BMW Master Mechanic! www.liqui-moly.com/en.html
@@jtaylor2563 thank you for this! summed up my thoughts very well :)
Does your oil cap say recommendation castrol on it yes or no ?
Wow.
get a tourque wrench
Bro we Tacoma content
if more people want to see tacoma content im down :D
What’s your job apart from youtube?
vehicle marketing!
That wasn’t a issue with the bmw you are the issue
😂
😑😑😑😑😖😵
We all make mistakes like an 8 minute video to say I cross threaded a bolt.
Don't hate, just keep moving on if not happy with the content
@@kylesm235i4 facts
First
BMW driver🤣
do i fit the stereotype yet? lol