Is Jeffery Dahmer in Heaven?
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Clip taken from Within Reason episode 22 with Bishop Robert Barron: • A Bishop and an Atheis...
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I find it hilarious that a pious catholic dignitary can recognize an exact Family Guy reference and can fill in the gaps
You should not be surprised that the Bishop exposes himself to material that is in opposition to his beliefs.
“He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
I'm sure he's quite good at filling gaps. Just ask his alter boys.
@@NotALizardPerson81
You > *"I'm sure he's quite good at filling gaps. Just ask his alter boys."*
That's cool.
But to be clear, your *"I'm sure"* = I have no clue.
@@samdg1234 apologist says what?
@@NotALizardPerson81 Projecting your inner state much?
The main problem with the priests is their bias in thinking that a materialist naturally does things that are bad or wrong…
My father was murdered when I was 13. I asked the preacher giving his service if I would have to share heaven with the man who killed my father. His answer was “yes, if he is truly sorry for what he did”.
Now I don’t believe and have been told directly by 3 different preachers that I will go to hell if I don’t believe that Jesus was resurrected and sacrificed himself for us.
You experienced first hand how purely evil religion is. Evil people love religion because the "only God can judge me narrative" gives them a way to justify their total lack of guilt or remorse. Where I live is protestant (Southern Baptist) but it's the same psychotic shit with them. The worst people perpetuate and leverage these kinds of social delusions specifically to avoid responsibility for their actions
❤
holy shit, hope you're doing well
You also need to know that person can't enter heaven without paying all debts that he owes. Most atheists have a misunderstanding that Christians needs to only accept Jesus to go to heaven, thats not it. There is a purgative state where you have to expiate your sins.
@@robinmjoy According to Catholics anyway. Purgatory is by no means a universal doctrine.
It's nice to hear two people with different views speaking respectfully, rather than yelling over each other. Not to say every person deserves respectful conversation, but all too often discussions that could and should be (at least more) respectful simply aren't.
I like the format more than the debates. Also Alex intelligence just plays out in a more satisfying manner by keeping the conversation rather than falling back into the same pattern of rhetorical figures preventing honesty which are spawned by debates. Which indeed just makes sense with a counterpart entering the conversation the same way.
Tone of voice has nothing to do with respect, plenty of people can be extremely rude and disrespectful in a "pleasant" tone of voice. Go talk to a few telemarketers
Sometimes being respectful means not being honest. It ignores the fundamental truth of the what two people believe.
So, if you get right down to it, an honest conversation between these two would be:
Bishop Barron: You're going to burn in Hell for eternity for not accepting Jesus Christ as your savior.
Alex O'Connor: You're a nut for believing fairy tales are real.
@@nattyfatty413 Where did you get that from the post? The 'yelling over each other' bit? I don't think the point was about tone, but about the intent. When people 'yell over each other' they're trying to control the conversation instead of having a healthy dialogue.
I read this comment all the time.. Where is all this yelling happening?
So they that were eaten must spend eternity in hell, but he who has eaten them enjoys hanging out with the god and their victims families in heaven. Whats that like?
"Hey, Jeffery, love you man. You dont know me but you ate my little brother who is currently burning in hell where he belongs. Sure glad YOU made it."
Where do you get that his victims would go to Hell?
@@Dan_Capone depends where Christians draw the line. I'm not a dahmer expert but I think a lot of his victims were gay men, and so many Christians would claim that is a sin worthy of hell. In Catholicism the Church still teaches homosexual sex is sinful. A gay person in their right mind would strongly oppose that their consensual sex is a sin. So that's probably why.
@@Dan_Capone maybe they were sinners who failed to repent on time
@@Dan_Capone unrepentant gays cannot inherit the kingdom of god. They were guiltty accirding to the scriptures. Is there some other authority with which we have to do? Of course i would never appeal to The Goatherders Guide to the Universe for any reason. I only appeal tto Scooby Do, there is none beside them.
@@konyvnyelv. whoops, imagine if we had to repent to the police or the fire-department before they saved us... "DID YOU EVER LIGHT A MATCH WRONG THO!?!? HOW INSULTING WAS THAT!!" lol
The obvious question for me is, "What is the point of life then?" If there's gonna be all this judgement, reparations, etc. that go on after the fact (and eternally), it actually makes life on earth seemingly superfluous. It just sounds like a lot hubbub to straighten out what could have been straightened out from the beginning of creation, if god were truly a perfect designer.
Exactly. If god were omniscient, he could have created us exactly how he wanted us to be in heaven with him from the start.
@@dannielz6 I agree, since God's knowledge does not infringe on our free will, God need only to create free people he knows with certainty will go straight to heaven (or even create them in heaven). God need not create people he knows with certainty will go to hell or purgatory first. No free will is infringed upon.
That is the question that I struggle with two when trying to combine it with the Christianity. If Heaven (and Hell) is eternal, by a mere comparison of length (100 years max vs infinity) the life on earth should have no other goal/meaning then securing your eternity. Plus doing one's best to "save" (aka convert) as many people as possible, so their eternity is secured, too
Life has to start somewhere and how better to separate good from evil so paradise is paradise than to test them here first
Do you think god needs robot's for what to make genuine free souls they have to be able to be evil anything else would he slaves whats the point in that just because you don't think it's perfect doesnt mean it's not how could you possibly comprehend whats good
While I can’t agree with much of what the bishop is saying, I’m glad that these kinds of rational, respectful, non-personal conversations can and do happen.
He's wrong, hes a catholic and should know that it said the only way to the father is through him. The catholic and Christian bible is the same! And just because someone gave their life to god it dont mean they go to heaven because there are many lukewarm and fake Christians burning in Hell, so that mean Jeffrey Dahmer is in Hell because where his heart is at🤦♂️
Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven and his victims are in hell. Or even more perverse his victims are in heaven with him and they're all having a grand old time telling god how great he is.
Can you imagine someone being tortured by Dahmer and losing faith because of that torture and having that thought send them to hell? How evil is that?
If Dahmer is in heaven, God is not just. If he is in hell, God is not merciful. Pick your poison, dear Christians.
@@mikolmisol6258 God can be both just and merciful. His justice was poured out on Christ on the cross, so we can then be free to receive His mercy. Dahmer being in heaven would not make God unjust, it would make Him supremely merciful AND just. This is like basic Christian theology...
@@thane732But how can this be? Unless specifically he receives punishment for his specific crimes, it's not justice. Jesus being sacrificed for the crimes of others is not justice since Jesus was not the offender of our crimes.
@@mikolmisol6258 nope. Someone can volunteer to take the punishment for someone else, and this counts as justice, both in God's eyes (which is all that really matters in the end) and in the eyes of many human justice systems. And that's what Jesus did. Justice was poured out onto Him for our crimes, and so the slate is now clean for whoever agrees that Jesus' sacrifice exempts them. Of course, if someone volunteers to take the punishment for you, but you reject that person, then you're not saved by that person's sacrifice.
I don't think his answer really solves the problem of forgiveness on behalf of someone else. You can be offended on behalf of someone else, like he sais God is, but that doesn't mean that you can also forgive on behalf of someone else. I can be offended if someone else gets robbed on the street, but that doesn't at all mean that I can now forgive the robber on behalf of the victim. I think he'd agree with this, so he has yet to offer an argument why this God can do this when you and I can't.
Isn't their whole doctorine based on another person getting sacrificed for the sins of others?
But in bronze age up to the reoccurrence of dark ages, the "kings/judges" were specifically ASSUMED/ALLOWED the power to "forgive" in the stead of the victims. I think they are stuck in this form of fascist Monarchical thinking.
Since 'there is no justice at all', we should strive to build a fair and just society, instead of building imaginary worlds.
Where do we get the idea of a fair and just society? Watch the whole interview and I think you'll be compelled to keep digging and asking the question "but why?"
Matt Dillahunty one time said something like: If the belief in god isn't necessary for me to go to heaven, then your god is useless.
Well, I would never take anything Matt says, seriously. The only less serious person would be Aronra.
But how about the belief that God already knows everything. (Determinisim) So God knew that Dahmer was determined to commit these horroundous acts. Even with free will. Why did God create and allowed this serial killier to even exist in the first place.
I really like catholic authority figures on UA-cam, they're always so kind and understanding.
😂 Great comment.
But be careful, if you are a little boy going to their church, they will be "more nicer" to you.
"There is no justice at all" - He was so close there, but then fell back on the tired trope that we would just do anything we wanted. If justice was an actual creation of a god, why then does it only apply to humans? There should as god is all knowing an all powerful be an underlying justice in all things which there simply is not. Justice is a concept created by humanity in order to better perpetuate survival. This life is all we get, there is no cosmic do over or time out if something/someone misbehaves. That makes what we do here and now all the more meaningful rather than expecting a participation reward at the end as long as we believe in the "right" god.
"today" you will be with me in paradise. doesnt help the catholic purgatory view
I subscribe to DarkMatter2525's interpretation of heaven: Entrants are reprogrammed into worship-bots. Frankly, if I have to choose between heaven, hell, and oblivion, I'll choose oblivion. And if that's not an option, I'd choose hell, because at least I get to keep my mind.
Also, yeah, even as an ex-Christian, I know that the whole "you can just say you're sorry and get into heaven" idea is wrong. I believe it's in Romans, but the Bible makes it clear that you can't just do whatever you want and call yourself a Christian. You have to actually BE sorry, you have to really wish you'd never committed any sins.
Isn’t it remarkable how a priest can speak with such authority as if their position is the most natural, reasonable, clear and compelling thing.
Got injustice…need reassurance…well voila ! Purgatory…of course!
One finds this among all fundamentalist groups.
The priest doesn’t know what happens after death beyond decomposition.
Nevertheless he speaks as if there’s a whole complex carefully designed system that doesn’t just serve his bias, and is very well understood, thanks to supernaturalism and paranormal authority.
Yeah, he says this on the basis of reason alone and he's 100% sure about those things. Bro, read some books about how Catholic church and faith works xd
@@stanio2002 I’m 100% sure that people write books. It took me a long time to arrive at that conclusion, but here I am🤣
@@stanio2002 Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and yet you arrive here with none.
Read how believing in the revelation works.
@@morgenmuffel5747 who ever said the claims were extraordinary?
I'm curious how Barron thinks Dahmer would have made reparations while in prison for all the lives he destroyed. The surviving loved ones of his victims probably wanted nothing more to do with the monster after the final verdict. They wouldn't want to hear Barron assuring them that Dahmer intends to fix what he broke, what happened can't be fixed, not by Barron's god or by anyone. What we CAN do is treat homosexuals like equal human beings, not like sinners born sick and commanded to change who they are....or else.
Yes I was wondering that too considering they took all of his money from the book profits anyway. I guess he could have maybe apologized?
Considering how in Job, after God murdered all of Job's family members, how did God make reparations? That's right, he returned Job's family to life, because that is a trivial thing for an omnipotent being to do.
Wait...what? I'm being told that God DIDN'T bring Job's family back to life afterwards....no, instead he just gave Job new family members. Y'know, like how when you're a kid and your dog dies so your parents get you a new dog? I'm sure it's the same for spouses and children...
Huh...maybe the Bible isn't a great place to look to learn how to make reparations to someone.
IF God exists He could certainly extend the punitive suffering post-mortem.
The weirder part is the unconditional forgiveness without somehow compensating the victims.
As a Christian, I really hope that victims are compensated whether their predators are punished or not.
These catholic apologists use the "compassion" of their made up god to pull people into their religion" see how wonderfull our god is! he pardons child rapists and murderers and he is our kind of guy"...
@@johnd.shultz7423 Yes. that's an issue. If God exists there is a chance of morally good outcomes. We'll see.
I find the idea of Heaven to be horrifying. If you think about, eternal existence is not at all desirable.
There was an episode of the old Twilight Zone where a criminal is shot by police and wakes up in a very nice hotel room. Attached to the hotel is a casino where he never loses full of the most amazingly attractive women who never say "no." He doesn't understand how he got here, but he's not about to question it.
He has everything he wants save for one important thing, though he doesn't realize it at first.
For a while it's great, and the games sex and good food he could ever want. But that's *ALL* there is. After a while he starts getting bored. He asks his guide if he can do something else, but he's told that this is his personal afterlife. This is all he has. He finally asks, "What sort of Heaven is this?"
The guide replies, "I never said this was Heaven." que the music.
But with eternal existence, even if you have access to every possible way to entertain yourself, every possible way to grow and learn, eventually you are going to run out of things to do. So really, every eternally existing being will share the same fate as that criminal: Eternal boredom. It's that or someday your existence will end.
If this doesn't terrify you, you don't fully grasp the implications of existing forever.
That would depend if the immortal being had perfect memory, otherwise after a few centuries you could circle back around and re-experience things you had already engaged with in the past. But I guess the bigger question is whether there is an end to what can be experienced? Are there infinite stories to write, infinite songs to be sung and boundless imagination to create? If so, why would you ever hit the end of what you can experience?
It’s simple. God will make it such that you enjoy it. Eternally. You will never get bored or tired. So you can’t apply human thoughts & human limitations to a completely different and transcendent future reality. It’s like a baby in the womb thinking “I find the idea of Earth to be horrifying. If you think about it, living on a messed up planet is not desirable at all.” But yet that baby-which we can say is now you as a grown adult-has probably had some good & happy days in their life, and isn’t constantly suffering 24/7, but enjoying quite a bit overall. So while the analogy isn’t perfect, the point is that in Heaven it will be GUARANTEED eternal bliss, and you will never complain. Which makes this an unnecessary concern.
{ “And they will say (in Paradise), “Praise God, who has *lifted all sorrow from us!* Our Lord is Most Forgiving, Most Appreciative. The One who has settled us in the Home of Permanence, by His Grace, *where boredom will never touch us, and fatigue cannot afflict us.”* } _(The Qur’an, Sūrah __35:34__-35)_
In the movie "The Green Mile" (I don't know if the quote is also in the book) they say something that has always stuck with me. Paraphrasing, they basically say that Heaven is like going back to the time you were the happiest in your life, and reliving that forever. Would you ever get tired of that?
@@celestialknight2339 "God will make everything ok" is pretty convenient.
@@nothanks6549 So what? Maybe the truth is convenient. The fact of the matter is-by even ENTERTAINING the idea of “Heaven” in the first place, you need to define what you mean by Heaven, and what source you’re getting the idea from to begin with. And as a Muslim who follows the Qur’an, I’m saying that our Scripture clearly describes Heaven as a place of “no boredom” and “no tiredness” which explicitly answers his concerns. So it’s not just “convenient” but bringing up direct evidence to the contrary. If you disagree, then you have to tell me where you’re even getting your IDEA of Heaven to begin with. Or else the discussion is utterly meaningless.
I hope you understand.
You have the potential to be one of the most important freethinkers and philosophers of your generation. Keep the good work, Alex.
by abandoning veganism?
@@watch-Dominion-2018yes
@@watch-Dominion-2018 well if you hate America so much
You can just leave 😢
😂
Disagree. Question about gods existence was settled long time ago, this is just pointless discussion on irrelevant subject.
Who would want to be stuck for eternity in heaven with Jeffrey Dahmer???
Well, he's one of the good guys now...
But seriously, doesn't the Bible teach that in heaven there won't be any sorrow, pain etc? Which, to me, means you are no longer you. At least all the memories that might stir up negative emotions have been wiped. So probably you wouldn't know it's him or what he's done.
@@v0id616 Oh shit,,a cleared HDD
Who would want to be stuck in eternity in heaven?? All you do is praise that egomaniac of a god
@@v0id616 what’s the point of going through this life only to forget about it in the next one
@@MireVale I have no idea, doesn't really make sense to me.
Both of you guys articulate thoughts very well - good talk!
It's quite amazing how a priest can talk compete childish nonsense with such confidence as if it's actually real.
This is why aliens won't contact us.
>Childish nonsense
>muh aliens
Purgatory is a way to satisfy peoples desire for justice without fighting for improved justice in the real world. The harsh truth is that yes in the real world injustice runs rampant, and believing people get it sorted out in a make believe afterlife isn't solving the injustice here.
Believers also fight injustice in the “real” world. E.g. Martin Luther King, Archbishop Oscar Romero, Nelson Mandela, Etc.
@@rafd3593 Sure, but it’s their human sense of justice that moves them, not religion. If it was religion ALL believers would fight injustice, or at least try. Instead the opposite happens. Fundamentalism is one of the major forces behind injustice.
@@rafd3593 Never said that no believer fights for justice in the real world. But as the speakers explained, the logic behind purgatory is a resolution for the injustice a person carries out in real life when in reality it isn't. And for every believer who takes a stand for injustice in the when the priority demands, this theology is still often used as a source of both useless threat and comfort that we've all seen from believers, the bible, and preaching. The "god will be the ultimate of justice not man" "they'll answer to god" mentality is commonplace and originates from the theology.
Same thing with caring for our ONLY planet earth, Christianity will have you believe in a new world/ rapture/ life after death, so why even care for our planet? It's only temporary in their eyes...
Religion, just like positivist legal systems, states, and any other artificial human social formulation, is all about blame shifting and avoiding responsibility for wrongdoing
Absolutely revolting response by the religious lad. Disgraceful and poisonous.
I find myself somewhat soothed by the amicable nature you both adhere to throughout. So often we get the angry-atheist and the unchristlike-christian; this is a good change of pace.
Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven, and his victims that happened to be atheists, in hell.
A Christian HAS to be OK with this possibility.
Yep. Those atheists did evil things just like all of us have. Justice must be done and so it will be done. Dahmer did even more evil things. Justice must be done, so it will be done. The question is who has to pay? Christ paid the price of sin and offers it to everyone. The sins of those who accept that offer stand paid for on the cross. Those who reject that offer pay for it themselves. I think what we don't like to admit is that we all have done evil that requires justice to be done.
@@zachdavenport8509 The only "evil" is not worshiping Jesus. It's infinite punishment for a finite crime. You clearly don't know the difference between "punishment'" and "justice" .
Xtianity is repulsive.
@@GuitarDog_atx Have you never done anything wrong? Really? Never told a lie? Never stolen anything? Most haven't done anything as bad as Dahmer, but we can't just arbitrarily draw a line and say under this no justice is needed. As to the extent of a wrong, you would have to have a comprehensive knowledge of the metaphysical structure of the universe to say what punishment is required for a particular evil. We are in no place to make such a judgment.
@@zachdavenport8509 Didn't say that I never done anything wrong, didn't imply that. Perhaps you should read my response before you replied
I said that the only crime is not bowing to Jesus. This Dahmer discussion proves that.
"We are in no place to make such a judgement' - you
But apparently, you think ignorant goatherders are in a place to do that.
@@GuitarDog_atx I don't think you understood my first comment either. The evil punished in hell is everything we have ever done wrong. We can be forgiven for all of it through faith. There are many evils other than not believing in God, belief in God is just necessary to be forgiven of them.
I love how at the end, he just explains it's wishful thinking and things he's explaining something we hadn't realised.
Very odd.
I find Jeffrey Dahmer infinitely more deserving of compassion than most law abiding (and bigoted) people I've known though, especially upper class, white mother£μ¢kers. Most of the people judging the guy (conservatives) are way worse than him, I don't care if they don't kill people, the systems of oppression they promote are a million times worse than what any disturbed solitary killer could possibly do.
@@JDdr86 what a stupid rant.
I don’t get it, what does he say is wishful thinking? I just rewatched the clip and have no idea what you’re referring to
As a Christian it's his place to judge unlike so call progressives with cancel culture for not following insane beliefs like veganisum or infinite gender theory where gender is a feeling outside of biology like a spirit or socialism all are oppressive and damaging all use moral justification for forcing there beliefs on everyone else
@@davidevans3223 stop being a moron.
ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE.
Read the damn book.
Is it just me or is C S. Lewis always in the back pocket of these apologists, ready to be pulled out whenever a tough question is asked?
Well, C S Lewis was an apologist himself and a darn good won. Also, his name is known to believers and non-believers.
Most apologists alive today have read a lot of Lewis because he's somewhat brilliant. So yes, but it just kind of happens naturally.
@@zachdavenport8509 You’re probably right. Have you read his work yourself?
@@brotherben4357 A lot of it, yes. What's somewhat unique about his approach is that he makes solid arguments, but does so in a way that speaks to the heart. The world doesn't just make more sense when we believe in God, it's more beautiful. And I think his novels really showcase that.
@@zachdavenport8509 I see. Were you raised a Christian?
This exact philosophy is also in Islam. When one converts all their past sins are washed away. So if Hitler, Stalin or Dahmer converted to Islam on their deathbed they are destined for paradise while all those who have been killed by them who were not of the religion are destined for the hell fire of jahannem.
It may convince naive and scared children, and that is all that the corrupted parents really want... which is why the children become more fundamentalist than the parents.
If we truly have free will, forgiveness makes no sense, because the choice to cause harm to someone else came from them, no one or anything else. But because I understand we don't have free will, forgiveness and saying your sorry does make sense, because saying your sorry would mean you realize that you don't desire to cause harm to the person you did anymore, and you want them to trust you again.
But if you truly had free will, nothing would change your mind except yourself, and learning knowledge would not be able to change your mind, because knowledge is not you, it wouldn't be able to influence your free will any. So even after you gained knowledge, you would still have the exact same desires as you did before, but that would be illogical to believe because we obviously don't have free will.
It’s the classic “did you do it for reasons, or randomly” either way, there’s no free will.
The beauty of God's forgiveness is that it goes even beyond what you and your reasons would be able to forgive. Even if the choice to sin was our own, God can still find it in Him to forgive us, IF we are truly repentant and open to Him.
@@robj4078 the mind can transcend the past. the past is just a thought in the mind, as is causality. the mind always has the capacity to distance itself from itself, and as agents confronting possibilities we can make free choices.
@@thane732 Please educate yourself: ua-cam.com/video/o0GN4urbA_c/v-deo.html&ab_channel=WhatI%27veLearned
@@Echogem222 lol youtube channels don't count as education
So if I sin it is on me and god doesn't bare any blame. If someone else sins against me, robs me or something, then god can step in and say I forgive him it's fine now. Isn't that hypocritical or something like that?
Reminds me of those stories of miraculous recoveries. When someone with cancer recovers, God takes all the credit, doctors be damned. When the person dies instead, God takes none of the credit and it's medicine's fault.
@@mikolmisol6258 Exactly my thoughts.
So, a family has Christians and Atheists: Dad and daughter are Christian, and mom and son are Atheist. Dad and daughter go to heaven while mom and son are in hell according to this guy.
Do dad and daughter know about the plight of mom and son? If yes, then for all eternity, they know their loved ones are tortured and burned.
Do dad and daughter NOT know about the plight of mom and son? If yes, then are they not the people they were while alive?
He said you're purged of attachments and sins at the end, so I think he's of the mind that no, you do not know of your mortal entanglements. So then dad and daughter forget each other in heaven? What exactly then is supposed to be the point of eternity if you no longer remember anything from when you were alive? Do you start over? Create new friendships or whatever? Never any animosity or jealousy, though. So everyone gets to know and like everyone? Or do you have to just sit there and 'glorify God' for all eternity?
He literally says atheists can go to heaven. Are atheists unable to listen to someone's words without misquoting them?
@@joaovitormatos8147 Exactly! Not believing in Jesus is a prerequisite for eternal salvation.
@@joaovitormatos8147 'Can'..is that the same as all do? Or was the context Atheists who do good works? Because the Dahmer et al hypothesis was no matter what you did up til deathbed, so long as you declare "jesus is lawd' at the end, up you go. And since when is this Catholic doctrine? Since the beginning? If not, so it's subject to change, innit?
I can't think of a more cruel existence than the Christian heaven. Not only are you forced to be happy for all eternity while your loved ones burn in eternal agony forever, but you have to literally worship the sick fμck who put them there, smh. But at least you get to hang out with Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer, I guess 🙃
@@joaovitormatos8147That's massively controversial so not sure whence his confidence. Like all believers, he's just creating his imaginary God in his image.
Regarding your video before this (veganism) and your community post, there are lots of good responses: Joey Carbstrong, David Ramms (livestreamed), Lifting Vegan Logic, Catherine Klein, etc. Your arguments did not hold water Alex....
Nice cope cult drone
Vegan cult cope
I think the question is rather: Why would an allmighty, allknowing God create a psychopathic sociopath like Dahmer, in the first place?
Anyway, I don't think eternal punishment for finite crimes makes sense (how could that be just?), even if we are talking about the worst of crimes.
Because free will, lol! He acted totally free, completely unaffected by his upbringing, genes, or anything else. Yeah, that totally makes sense!
Humanity has fallen according to the book of Genesis. We don't live in the perfect world God intended.
@@hullie7529 If God is all knowing, then he must have known this would happen from the start? And if he is all knowing and almighty - it follows that he must have intended it to develop as it did - or he would have made it differently (changed his design from the start) to get a different (perfect?) result?
Hell is less of a punishment and more of a choice. God allows you to go there because it's what you want.
@@henryvdl3692 What you want is not up to you.
According to Bishop Robert Barron, there seems to be ways for atheists to enter heaven and it seems he knows about it.
I would like him to preach to the general population of atheists how they can enter heaven and avoid hell as an effort to save them in an alternative way.
If the goal is to save people as Christians want themselves to be saved, Christianity shouldn’t matter as long as the goal is achieved.
The bishop was terribly wrong there. He should read Catholic manuals instead of secular philosophers.
@@Catholic-Christian I'm not expert on the topic, but he definitely sounded a bit off to an uneducated guy like me.
@@JJ-ds2get-her Yes he was unfortunately wrong there.
No, that's official Catholic teaching. The difference is: if you're an Atheist you're on your own, you might be saved, who knows, it depends on God, we're not sure, but it depends on the same God that has otherwise given us a sure roadmap for us to follow if we want Grace, so why risk it? Jesus is the way, the truth and the light, that doesn't mean you can't also find your way out of the forest by walking barefoot in the middle of the night stepping on thorns, but why would you do that if you know there's an illuminated and tiled path that gets you straight? Also, wouldn't you tell other people you care about where that path is instead of letting them find their way in the darkness?
@@Dan_Capone according to you, Jesus is not “the way”, He’s just one way. And it seems He doesn’t know all other ways either, or maybe He doesn’t want to share it. At least He didn’t seems to want people to know.
Anyhow, I’m glad it’s acknowledge that there are other ways in the forest, because the Christian way is not the best to the world anymore. I’m glad we are free to explore other viable ways for the sake of the living world. Although I would be happier if the consequence of making mistakes in this exploration is not hell.
Regarding your comments about “finding ways in the darkness”, there won’t be complete darkness. Humans always build their work around their predecessors work and lessons. We will only know more and get better at it. Someone has to clear some darkness to pave the way for the future. Don’t worry, more ways will be found.
So what's the point in practicing a religion then?
Because God will still not forgive you if you know about him but do not believe in him. You're only saved if you've never heard of him *or* believe in him.
To practice finding the cause of suffering and ending it.
Like I mentioned on the full interview, I think a more compelling question to me would not be about a psychopath like Dahmer, but a more "spiritually transactional" example, like a mob boss who dies feeling absolved, or a serial abuser / criminal who's getting old and looking for a way to avoid the ghosts that haunt them. In any event, it's still a horrible way to keep folks in the church.
People like Pablo Escobar. As much as he was the head of a ruthless cartel, he also provided for whole communities in Colombia. A lot of people there really loved him for that. It does get tricky with these types of individuals that pretty much bought all the raffle tickets, all the winners and all the losers.
Seems like it would be a long process at the heavenly courts with a whole lot of appeals and objections, and your guardian angel doing loads of heavenly paperwork.
@@mejsjalv Mafia dons would fall into a similar category - pillars of the community who use extortion and murder to stay that way. It's a big reason why I left the church; not organized crime, lol - but just that the idea of a mythical blood sacrifice as a celestial pardon just is fundamentally reprehensible. Now, Bishop Barron would frame it differently, I'm sure - but he could not deny the net result - people who have deeply wronged others get to die in peace.
Nice opinion. Too bad it's just that - nothing more than an opinion.
@@thane732 well, of course, lol - if you're talking about the supernatural you'd have to add a bunch of opinions about what comes next, whether or not it's a gated community, what's the food like, etc. 😆
The Qur’an answers this question clearly:
“Repentance is available from God for those who do wrong out of ignorance, then repent soon after. Such people-God will relent towards them. God is Knowing and Wise. But repentance is NOT available for those who commit all sorts of evils, until when death confronts one of them, they say, “Now I repent!”-nor for those who die as active disbelievers. Such people-We have prepared for them a painful punishment.” _(The Qur’an, Sūrah __4:17__-18)_
Is my dear darling babe Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven plz tell me 🥺🥺
More importantly, is he still able to do what he loved - murdering and eating people - in heaven?
Ayoo?
I saw him there one evening
Or it was someone just like him; same glasses
Anyways don't worry,🤗
@@fukpoeslaw3613 thank god. Dahmer my love, I'm coming for u soon🙈🙈🙈
@@tintin5341 By the way, how ar'ye doing since Hergé's demise?
I grew up with priests, one bishop and nuns involved in our family get togethers. And our family often visited them.
But I wondered, even as a kid, did they have an experience that caused them to believe? It never happened for me. Thankfully.
If I were them, gettinfbup in front of a bunch of ppl, saying my invisible all-powerful friend wants them to give their money,, and seeing them do it would make me a believer.
Can't you just ask?
@@blondequijote
The catholic church is very wealthy, but it is more about control. Keeping people in their place. Especially women.
If they were indoctrinated, probably not. If they converted, then they probably did. But to be holy, to be saint-like, happens after thousands of those experiences, so many that it becomes realized (seen 24/7).
@@blondequijote you don't need to give the Church money. I've been a Catholic for years and haven't given a scent.
"Extraordinary harm and mistreatment requires extraordinary justification.” - Alex
I'd argue personal health is an extraordinary justification. No sentient being should sacrifice their wellbeing for another sentient being.
He doesn't have enough imagination!
@@smith6907I agree. Sacrificing your health for the well-being of another is above and beyond, and shouldn't just be expected of everyone. I think at some point he'll figure out how to eat vegan with the IBS. It's almost certainly going to be possible, but if he doesn't know how, it's still not an option for him even if it is possible.
This video had absolutely nothing to do with veganism. But I guess the vegan cultists have to take every opportunity to Shame their most recent apostate
@@smith6907 He didn't even consult a dietician first, if he actually tried everything he could and consulted a dietician first than maybe I would accept it.
Note that the idea purgatory seems to have very little biblical support, and even though it has some roots in Judaism, it was really elaborated only in the 1200's. So if you think biblical support is already flimsy, they really haven't got much to prop up their believe here. Source : wikipedia.
Purgatory doesn't make sense, if afterlife is eternal. No matter how much time you will spend in the purgatory, at some point it will be extremely small fraction of your total experience, virtually irrelevant.
You are a believer … in Wikipaedia
Purgatory is in scripture but mostly implicitly. It definitely was not ”invented” in the 1200s, the church fathers believed in purgatory and prayers for the dead.
@@Catholic-Christian if "implicitly" counts, everything is in the Bible.
@@luciderr The church fathers believed in purgatory and it’s defined infallibly by the Church of Christ. The average Joe has no divine authority to make things up.
It seems to me that Christianity provides its followers with "maternal love." That is to say that no matter what you do, as a child, you can always turn to your mother to feel l8ght hearted. Christianity seems to do that to its followers.
True, except that most of the mothers (hopefully) don't require their children to consider themselves unworthy/undeserving of their love first.
Not everybody has a lovable mother. Important to keep that in mind. Some mothers are genuine monsters.
@Three_Owl_Night yes, I know christianity guilt-trips you. I'm just saying I find similarity in that particular point only.
we all end up where we were before we were born.. nowhere.. sure, the thought of dying is terrifying, and having a beliefe you go somewhere good where you see all your friends where all the bad people are banned from might feel good.. but.. you dont go there..
This clip is taken from my brand new podcast, Within Reason. The full conversation is available here: ua-cam.com/video/g5uzJT7EdD4/v-deo.html
Within Reason is also on most podcast platforms as an audio-only experience. Please subscribe and rate the podcast if you enjoy it! Episodes are released every Sunday.
I understand this is not a debate, but this seems like the opposite. It feels more like a promotional advertorial for his brand of catholicism. Which is your good right as channel owner, but not as interesting to me personally. I would've loved some follow up questions. Questions like: What would justify that? What makes you feel sure your view on this is right? How does it contrast to others perspectives in your sekt?
The Impossibility Of The Contrary:
-It is impossible to be without knowledge of uniformity of nature.
-Knowledge of uniformity of nature is impossible without God.
-It is impossible that God does not exist.
-God exists.
The only thing an atheist needs to hear is the fact that they already know God exists as demonstrated above.
(So what's the point if they already know? To shut their mouth. Romans 1:20. Now verbally too.
And no, we can't convert anyone either, especially not an atheist, defeats the whole point of their atheism.
People become more receptive when they are humbled, so zip them in hope that they become more receptive to the Holy Spirit.
And yes it's Biblical, Colossians 1:17. Also shout-out to: The Burden Of Opinion.)
Any further like giving evidence as the evidential apologist does on the MATTER OF GOD only serves to
feed and strengthen their delusion. Sort of like playing along with a kid's play pretend.
The evidentialist even dishonors God by elevating these children to the position of judge with God being the one on trial.
Laughable, of course it naturally results in gavel pummeling enthusiasts. Now what the based apologist does is, confiscate it.
-inb4s:
-But SCIENCE! REPEATABLE!
Yes, those depends upon the uniformity of nature.
-Define knowledge.
Justified true belief.
-I don't know/I don't have the justified true belief that nature will be uniform.
-Nature IS (knowledge claim) not uniform.
Are self-refuting statements, so it's impossible.
-Prove the impossibility of the second premise.
If there is no possibility for something, then it naturally means it's impossible.
-Prove that there's no possibility.
That's the equivalent of asking someone to give evidence that there's no evidence.
Or to prove that something does not exist, remember?
-I know nature will be uniform because nature has been uniform.
Circular logic, irrelevant thesis fallacy.
-Assuming what you're trying to prove in the premise.
Not the truth of the conclusion, doesn't address the argument, still impossible.
I can't wait to see you become a priest!!
@@NayBuster you have to be creative and hollow to say so little with so many words.
@@inajosmood No opinions.
What about people that are "broken" to use a simple term that have no mental faculties to process they harm they cause or recognize any meaningful asking of forgiveness? It seems there is no real way to account for this. Most talk seems to surround everyone has the same level of "free will" to full comprehend and have capacity for empathy, sorrow, and shame. This just doesn't to remotely seem to be true.
It's wild having conversations with people who believe heaven is an actual place that exists. Anyway this guy believes that knowingly rejecting Christ leads to hell, so he thinks I'm going to end up in hell.
Hell is where all the cool people are. Go to heaven and you'll have to hang out with Jeffery Dahmer.
Well, he said that atheists can end up in heaven, they don’t have to believe in Jesus (not that it matters 😅)
@@ZenShroud1 😂😂
@@summer78946 I think he means if an atheist never heard about Jesus. I went to Catholic school my whole life so I'm fucked in his mind.
rejecting Christ means rejecting the morality that he symbolises. seriously guys, apart from 10 Mormons and 20 evangelian Christians nobody in the catholic church thinks this literally.
Jeffrey. You've been sinning by lusting after young men, torturing them to death, and eating them. Now to save yourself, let me, for a change, introduce you to this chiseled 33 year old who died naked on the cross for your sins so that if you eat his flesh and drink his blood, you shall have everlasting life.
I died.
I would love to hear what kind of "reperations" could a serial killer have done.
I don't know... I suspect while the families of Dahmer's victims would rather not receive reparations, perhaps there is some social good that he could do?
Dahmer was a monster, but if you know a lot about his case, his life was rather tragic. He genuinely did not want to follow his urges to be a serial killer, going so far as to get a mannequin to satisfy his need for an outlet of the ultimate submission that he sought, but his grandmother took it away from him. His parents were quite abusive, and he tried to join some branch of the military to seek control of his life. Finally, he turned to alcohol because he despised that side of himself so much and that is when the corpses ended up piling up.
Most serial killers don't try to exert any control over themselves, whereas Dahmer did, at least at first. Perhaps something could have been done with his struggle (because let's face it: there are people out there that are going to be serial killers) to help police learn more and catch serial killers earlier, or to help serial killers who are trying to fight their urges to kill find ways to do so.
I realize this is trite compared to what he did, but anything to prevent further nightmarish tortures such as what Dahmer inflicted on teen boys and young men could benefit humanity as a whole, although as stated, making reparations directly to the families of his victims is probably vastly unlikely as I'm sure they wanted nothing more than for him to be locked up for life and / or executed and wanted nothing to do with him.
@@vorpal22 Yeah, um, if you murder and eat people we can kind of assume you're messed up. It goes without saying. So yeah, it doesn't amount to much. Good for him for.... trying a little. I guess?
I suppose if there is something in your nature which gives you an uncontrollable urge to do something awful, like a monster, you don't deserve blame for that. But I don't think you then deserve sympathy, either.
@@josephcowan6779 I understand what you're saying, and I'm not justifying any of Dahmer's actions, obviously, because they were monstrous. Maybe if he had been allowed to continue to explore the ways he tried to express his torturous, murderous actions, he might have been able to keep it in control. He was thwarted repeatedly, though, so that's just a hypothetical to which we'll never know. I don't have sympathy for any serial killers. Still, I felt a small pang of sadness about the whole thing. I do feel a modicum of pity for people who have urges that are extremely harmful to others: that must be a shitty life to live. If it were me having to go through something like that, I would probably kill myself. Thankfully, I don't.
I feel sympathy towards the victims and the families of the victims far more, of course.
The main issue is that: Relatives of Jeffrey Dahmer's victims could choose to forgive Dahmer if they wanted. But instead someone else is forgiving Dahmer on their behalf without their permission or any input whatsoever. That's just injustice
why, people kill each other all the time, gangs, drug cartels, robberies. We dont have to be a serial killer to kill someone. Why is human life valuable in the first place. Why are people obligated to one another.
If Purgatory is real, then why have a church and a doctrine of salvation at all? Everyone could just go to purgatory, fix their issues and then go to heaven. Purgatory doesn't solve the problem of hell. Its a bandaid to keep believers in the church.
Good question. I too was questioning the point behind salvation and Jesus dying for our sins if we're going to be purged anyway.
Why not put this on the clip channel?
God is merciful towards all those who repent, and even more merciful towards those who demand penance to fix their sin. Idk he's in heaven or not, because it's said that he would act like prison food was human flesh and would use ketchup as blood, if its true, no he's not forgiven but if no then yes.
I think some people are born incapable of feeling remorse for their actions and it feels weird to look down on them as being more deserving of suffering for something they had no say over and were just born with.
Evolutionarily speaking, "inflicting suffering on the criminal" is only there to partially control replication because the in-group may "later" need to use the criminal's nature they cannot kill the criminal out-right.
Accept for the fact you can be taught right from wrong n those who decide to do what's wrong deserve punishment.
@@mylife-23 Yeah I think I disagree with that mindset really strongly. Some ppl aren't taught right from wrong properly and even some are just aren't equipped to act on it in the way we would push comes to shove. Any decision someone makes is ultimately decided by what they were born with and their environment so making them suffer for the bad luck of becoming who they are just for retribution seems cruel. I can't really justify to myself why anyone "deserves" punishment for ending up as someone who did something wrong beyond deterrence and harm reduction and even then it seems like we should be looking for kinder alternatives.
Like I'm just lucky to not be born in a family where I'm raised to be a Taliban fighter and lucky to not be someone that grows up to become someone like Dhamer.
@@ataraxia7439 I'll agree to disagree.
The catholic says all this worldly injustice is fine, cause it is sorted out after death. Oh, don't we all feel so much better about injustices!
When asked questions like this they Speak like Polotician
Purgatory ? The Catholic clearing house for souls. St Peter or Satan ? As John McEnroe used to put it: *You cannot be serious !* This really is angels dancing on pinheads stuff. First show us your God before you pontificate on what happens when death occurs.
"If, let's say if. I don't know what's going on inside of Jeffrey Dahmer's soul, but if, with complete sincerity and real repentance he opened his heart to the forgiveness of God, he received the Forgiveness Of God."
That's what the good old Bishop said.
Of course, it's nothing new. It's almost Christianity in a nutshell, which says a lot about the meaning, the importance and the purpose of life on earth.
How convenient for Jeffrey. Good for him. He killed a bunch of people over decades. He tortured and butchered a couple of them, but as long, as he opened his heart to God, it didn't matter that he practically dedicated his adult life to kill people, he has been forgiven.
What’s wrong with that
What happened to the belief in resurrection? Jesus's second coming (he didn't do it the first time, for some reason), people being brought back from the dead? We keep making stuff up as wish fulfilment. It's getting tiresome, really. Purgatory? Sure, that sounds like a thing. I guess it's real now. We are so entitled and naive. The universe doesn't owe us justice, it doesn't owe us anything. "There's this place where I'm going to be happy all the time; after I die, because I was sad while I was alive!" Yay, good for you!
If you watch the whole conversation,as in this clip, you'll hear the good bishop tell Alex that he's thinking wrong on particular aspects and points. It's frustratingly comical. Alex has the patience of a saint.
Because Alex is always right? (Don't get me wrong. I really like Alex. )
@@johannespaulus919The question is not whether he is 'always' right but whether he is right in these specific instances.
It’s frustrating for you to watch someone tell Alex they disagree with him? Hmm….
You're frustrated to hear someone tell Alex he's wrong on something?...
@@WalterHassell it's frustating for us to watch someone tell Alex they disagree with him and not substantiate it
You should have been more specific when you asked your Dhamer question.
By asking if it was ok that Dhamer goes to heaven but an Atheist doesn’t, you provided Baron with a way to weasel out of the question. Because there is no mainstream acceptance that Atheists automatically go to hell.
Ask the same question but replace atheists with gays.
What you should have ask is:
“How is it justified that a repent cannibal can enter heaven, but the gay people he ate are condemned to hell?”
I wish you would've asked
"How is it just for Dahmer to enter heaven while his gay victims go to hell?"
That would have gone to some interesting places.
The Bishop would probably default to his “we should hope that all will be saved”.
Maybe they dont go to hell, maybe they didnt repent. Tell me why Dahmer was obligated to anyone else or care about anything beyond his desires.
@@gsp3428 we're not talking about Dahmer's responsibility over others' salvation
We're talking about the injustice of a God that would torture victims who's only "crime" was loving the "wrong" sex while their murderer gets spoon fed fruit from the Tree of Life for all eternity.
If both Dahmer and his victims go to heaven then there is no problem, as is the essence of Restorative Justice. But if not and the repentant murderer takes precedence over the unrepentant victims then I would absolutely still say that a grave miscarriage of justice has occurred .
@@RileyAS Its a good question, God hates all sin. First you are appealing to a moral to even say murder is wrong. If God doesn not exist Jeffrey Dahmer certainly isnt under any moral obligation to do anything, you must agree with that. People murder each other all the time and especially in the animal kjngdom, you must be giving some special value to human life. Maybe God doesnt torture people, maybe God seperates himself from them. You dont even believe God exists so really its only a problem if God exists, which you dont believe I am guessing.
@@RileyAS Why has a grave miscarriage of justice occurred? You would only be able to say that if the victim had not had at least one time in his/her life to repent/become saved, etc. If they had that opportunity and ignored it or decided not to believe, why does the manner of their de/ath matter?
If God is everywhere (omnipresent) then God is Infinite and nowhere in particular. If Heaven is communion with God then Heaven is nowhere in particular. If you just put a space between the w and h in that word, it is easier to understand that Heaven is Now Here. It is impossible to be seperate from God. If God is unlimited then God is without condition, so accepts unconditionally. If God is Eternal then God cannot change mind. If God cannot change mind and God created evryone in Love (acceptance) then God, *no matter* what, loves everyone unconditionally.
💯
I would have liked to have seen a follow up question of what would happen if dahmer had happened to die right before he was going to ask for repentance or was going to reach a state of mind where he was becoming repentant. I think according to most christian interpretations, he would just go to hell in that case and wouldnt get any second chances even though he was prevented from repenting by chance?
oooooh, good one. But this seems more like a dunk on Christianity than anything, because it's really hard to defend from a Christian standpoint
I think he would go to hell then, yes. But maybe God just wouldn't let that happen ever?
And what if his victims died before they could repent or convert themselves?
Catholics also invented the concept of Infant Limbo so they no longer had to admit to parents that, according to The Bible, their stillborn infant would be going to hell because they died before being "saved". Becuase I guess that one's a hard sell. Religion is just so ridiculous and emblematic of the level of delusion humans are capable of
0:35 He is lying there. According to the Bible atheists cannot enter heaven ("Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." - John 3:18")
5:05
We shall both die like animals.
We can both make Justice-real or imaginary.
Exactly.
And I think the thing he says right after that is the most infuriating. "Why not just live my life as any materialist would tell me to" as if all materiallist are just crazy r@pists & murderers, smh. And this is coming from a Catholic priests, no less! What a shameless & unselfaware piece of sh¡T
@@jsull81
Alex could’ve pushed back against the blatant insanity a bit more.
Ask Yourself and Avi challenged you to a debate about veganism. Why don't you accept the challenge and get on a respected level. This is just nonsense.
He already blocked them from the comments section.
@@Ab-Ass-Loss-Eeel What a coward!
Always something I struggled with. If a person like Dahmer is in Heaven but the best people I’ve ever known, for only being lacking of belief, exist in Hell; I’d rather share their pain in Hell. It’s more on who I’d wish to spend eternity with and those metrics don’t lie in that case.
That might be an issue with different Christian worldviews, but Bishop Robert Barron stated pretty clear that according to the Roman Catholic position a lack of belief isn't sufficient on its own to not enter heaven (~0:34).
@@derwolf7810 but this view isn't backed up by the Bible
@@nakkadu That also might be an issue with different Christian worldviews, but Bishop Robert Baron is Catholic.
@@derwolf7810 Catholics still use the Bible....and the Bible doesn't back up what he says
@@nakkadu Neither did i claim that Catholics wouldn't use the bible, nor did say anything about whether or not the bible would back up what he said.
I said in other words, that for (us) Catholics your above objection ("but this view isn't backed up by the Bible") isn't valid, no matter whether the claim in your objection was true or not; but it might be valid for other Christian denominations, whose members for example might need to comply with Sola Scriptura.
The thing we don't know (Christians) is that Jeff will come back alive again and we will all see him again because it said in the bible that all the dead in Christ will rise again. And the creepy fact is we are all worse than Dahmer but we don't know it because his sins has been forgiven and we are still sinning and if Jesus wasn't in our lives they would still be a possibility that we would do the same thing as he did. Dahmer his self was a victim because he was a victim of Satan, he even said himself in an interview that he gave those bodies he killed as a gift to Satan. So....some people say if he goes to heaven then i'm not going, and that just means that you are beyond crazy. Sorry for the long comment it's just that i also was justice for JD❤
I clicked SO FAST😩😩😩 love your content!!!
An atheist can be saved...that says everything...religious people really live in their own bubble.
The reason Connor isn't too familiar with purgatory is because he is very well versed in the bible, and the bible makes no mention of purgatory.
Explain Maccabees 2, then.
@@TacosnZorro I'm talking about the Christian Bible, or even the catholic Bible
@@MrTomservo85 the complete Bible aka the Catholic Bible supports purgatory
The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church. The Protestants removed books from it.
He can be “saved”. Saved from what ? Oh that’s right the HELL that his all loving god created ….FFS 😅
I needed this!
As a "catholic" you're champion at cherry picking, especially when ignoring the crimes of your own church.
Quote of the Day
"We ought to speak, shout out against injustices, with confidence and without fear. We proclaim the principles of the Church, the reign of love, without forgetting that it is also a reign of justice."
-Blessed Miguel Pro
Sorry there is no such thing as purgatory. Lake of Fire or New Jerusalem are Ur options in the end.
Forgot I was following this dude. He was always thoughtful. Sorry he's not vegan anymore. Amazing how the mind can segment itself with a little motivated reasoning I suppose.
Studies show philosophers and people high in linguistic intelligence are among the most adept at creative excuse-finding. But he really just did the same thing every "former vegan" does:
- Vegans were mean to me online, telling me they can put me in touch with vegan health professionals for help
- I had undisclosed health issues and an unhealthy diet before eating more plants
- I continued my unhealthy diet while excluding animals; my health issues didn't improve
- I didn't consult a health professional who understands vegan nutrition for support
- Instead, I experimented with "a little bit of fish" and it felt like a miracle because of motivated reasoning and placebo
- I guess it wasn't possible for me so I am no longer vegan
in islam, the only sins that are not forgiven are the sins committed against others, unless they want to forgive you, and Allah will take away from your good deeds to add it to theirs depending on how badly you treated them, and if you have no good deeds some of their sins will be given to you, i dont know if anyone didnt know this but eh
And this is another reason why I call it: "Christi-Insanity"...
so this guy would do anything cruel and disgusting if he didnt believe in god? really?
Apparently, smh
I am anticipating a “why I am no longer an atheist“ video from Alex.
And how would that sit with you?
How? He still doesn't believe for exactly the same reasons as before he studied religion.
If it does happen some time in the next 5 or 6 years, do you think it's more likely to be because Alex lowered his standard of evidence like William Lane Craig did, and joined the religion because of some experience he had that he couldn't explain? Or do you think it will be the result of some apologist argument like a cosmological or moral argument?
I doubt that will actually happen but I was thinking the same thing the other day lol
That would be nice.
I dislike the implication that if there isn't some form of objective justice then who cares what we do. Without a form of objective justice, it is even more requisite upon us to strive to create that just system ourselves because a stable and fair society is what most people instinctively want.
We don't get to just defer all that responsibility to a higher power and say that the chips just land as they land.
Dahmer spending eternity in the presence of the psychotic desert spirit Yahweh is fine with me.
Granting that non-believers CAN be saved isn't really answering the question. Does he mean that the christian god would judge them by their acts instead of their belief (or lack thereof)?
Or does he mean that non-believers can become believers before they die, or that they can secretly believe or something like that? If it's the latter, that's not answering the hypothetical given to him. We are asking about non-believers who actually died non-believers.
When he says that the Vatican teaches that, I tried looking for their position on it, I didn't find anything that explicitly said that you don't need to believe in order to be saved. In fact it seemed to say the opposite.
Next time Alex, just ask the question directly: "Can people go to heaven solely based on how they lived their life and not based on whether they're believers or not, yes or no?"
I was really hoping that was going to be the follow-up question. He also let the comment about "materialist" @5:05 go by without any pushback, which was equally disappointing
Pleasee, bring him more times. I loved it. You too make a very intelligent and respectfull conversation ❤️💗
Have you seen this 1:10:02 discussion between them? ua-cam.com/video/g5uzJT7EdD4/v-deo.html
@@daddyleon yees I did. Very good 🥰
Another perspective:
ua-cam.com/video/epC4LF-Ko7A/v-deo.html
It's funny watching adult people talk about their imaginary god but he is a priest so he's invested in it. Btw, that's a nice watch the priest is wearing.
What kind of watch is it?
or reading imaginary comments on the internet
@@LeventeCzelnaiThere's nothing imaginary about comments. They exist somewhere in a database. Virtual is not the same as imaginary - they do exist outside the human mind in a machine.
@@mikolmisol6258 yes that s our assumption. but if we start questioning our core beliefs (like that other people really exist) than we end up with ultimate scepticism towards anything. we can only be sure in 1 thing and that means there is only 1 thing that exists and that is ourselves. that s what i meant.
@@LeventeCzelnaiBut you cannot operate under solipsism. As Aron Ra put it, you *have to* make the assumption that objective reality exists because it is *literally* insanity to act as if objective reality did not exist. It is an assumption, but a good and necessary one.
(13) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: (14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7:13-14 (KJV)
"I'm going to announce to 512K people that I quit a diet without even consulting a dietician first" - Alex thoughts
I'm going to waste my time, hating another human being, because they tried something and it didn't work out in this form. Booohoo. That way you're going to win the argument for the cause of veganism for sure. not. At least one thing is confirmed veganism doesn't make people good people or bad people good people. You stay as shitty as you ever were.
Ok, now let's try again. How can we work together for animal wellbeing and support a vegan diet? We learned one thing, hating isn't going to do the job.
@@inajosmood I never said i hate him, you're putting words into my mouth. Yes I am angry that he quit veganism without consulting with a dietician, he criticizes people for a living, I'm sure he can handle some criticism himself.
@@Teneab why would you be angry? really?
how is it your business what his diet is? get your moralizing nose out of people's lives
@@inajosmood because i believe needlessly taking the life of animal who didn't want to die is immoral.
I feel bound to point out: that’s all well and good and perhaps “comforting,” as you said…
But it’s still all entirely made-up. It’s really getting down into the weeds and technicalities… of a thing that’s utterly fabricated and quite obviously so.
I’m afraid I don’t really see the point. 😕
You don’t seem very healthy Alex, I hope you’re alright
it's all the animal torture
@@watch-Dominion-2018 Being cruel to humans is also animal torture. Pot/kettle/black
@@watch-Dominion-2018 wow. This video has nothing too do with his recent vegan drama. But I guess you. A vegan cultist. Has to take every opportunity to shun your most recent apostate
Problems of conscience?
@@ilovenature9077 no. Problems of a cult harassing someone for choosing their own health over their dogma
Knew the guy wasn't gonna actually answer the question
I must say, as a Catholic Christian who is a huge fan of Alex, the amount of atheist vegans in these comment sections responding to Alex’s recent struggle with maintaining a healthy vegan diet with nothing but vitriol and an utter lack of charity remind me strikingly of those fundamentalist Christian’s who demonize former Christians.
I’ve seen people say “you were never a real vegan” and others saying that they hope Hell exists so that Alex will go there. It seems that many of you are no better than the ones you criticize and see yourselves as being above.
I agree with you, but I cannot say I haven't felt that kind of comment before. At least to me, it feels like he, even if tacitly, supported that hate and now is getting bitten by his own snake
You try to identify yourself with a chick while it is being chopped alive or a frozen pig while being transported to the slaughterhouse. Alex is not the real victim here!
I am vegan, and I agree that most vegans should be more charitable to Alex. Not because they are wrong on how much animal suffering is caused or anything like that, but because it seems to me that Alex is being genuine. And yes, the "you were never a vegan" comments are the worst, because it's the same bullshit argument we atheists get from Christians all the time when they learn we left Christianity. It's irritating how easy it is for the us vs them bias to kick in, and it's even easier in a situation where you really believe that someone is causing harm. But if someone legitimately believes that they cannot currently be healthy as a vegan, but still wants to be vegan, then they need help, not ridicule. And hell isn't even a place I would want Hitler to go, so I can't imagine wishing it on Alex; that's just stupid.
@@ilovenature9077 why? killing innocent little mammals when harvesting the crops is better? chopping their little bodies to a thousands pieces is good? the fact that we kill way less animals this way is irrevalant, we still participate in killing to survive. there is no good solution, we become monsters no matter what if we want to survive here.
@@LeventeCzelnai Most of the land is cultivated for feed of farmed animals. You can reduce the number of animals killed by going vegan!
"If there is no justice, why not live however you wish?"
What if I wish to live in a way that causes minimal harm and maximum benefit to those around me? Justice goes both ways. It would not be just to live your life sacrificing for others and get no reward. But what if you do that knowing there is no reward. Or the only reward you get is a pleasant feeling knowing you have helped, not harmed.
Also, it's not true that there is no justice. We do deliver justice as a society. We have ways to punish wrongdoers, either criminally or civilly. If you wreck my car and can sue you. If you shoot me in the head you may go to prison.
And we sometimes even reward those who help.
Why is Jeffrey wrong for what he did. He had IBS.
Down gaylord
Cope
3:21 ABSOLUTELY WRONG
I hope you haven’t spoken your last word on the veganism
I hope he has. Cultists can seethe
Hopefully he has
Shouldn’t it be up to the victims family to do the forgiving….
It should be but according to the bishop its the victims family and god that do the forgiving.
Mental Gymnastics=BS
1:13 he murdered 17 men and forever scarred those mens families how the hell do you make reparations for that.?
Apparently by saying "sowy" before you die
@@Trash-ramen that definetly makes it better lol.