Catholicism/Christianity are two of the most inconsistent religions ever, that's why it's so obvious the Bible it's just a bunch of men making rules for Israel. And well men, specially the uneducated entitled ones aren't specially good people, and the fact that the Bible gives specific rules on how to treat "your slaves" but not on how to actually be a good person, tells you everything you need to know about such a "holy" book. I'm no atheist, I do believe in god, it's just that the way the Christians portrayed him it's just so wrong. I bet my life God doesn't care at all if we choose to study philosophy from the Marcus Aurelius or the Buddha; is people that get mad. I don't think God is an intolerant hateful deity, like the one portrayed in the Bible. I read the Bible uncountable times, due to my very strict Christian parents. Since I graduated from high school I never picked up my bible, ever, until this year when I read some wonderful analysis about the biblical stories, yet not much has changed, there's still a lot of inconsistencies, and if I perceived so much hate during my childhood, now that I'm an adult I can confirm that this book is anything but the word of a loving God.
Lets say evil does not exist. Meaning.. nobody gets sick, nobody steals, nobody has even malevolent thoughts. So humans are by nature flawless and by nature can't go wrong or right, they are programmed to always to the thing that God wills. Since there is no other choice than doing what God wills, there relatively is no good or wrong. Good or evil only are relative to each other. If one doesn't exist, the other doesn't exist, its just one state. Compare it with electric charge. In reality there are negative and positive charges (Electrons, Positrons). And we can only assign them attributes because we know their opppsite. But if the positron didn't exist, we could not say that the electron is "negative", it would just be seen as "neutral", cause there is no counterpart. So your proposition that God would change the rules and eradicate all evil could work, but then (as mentioned above) good would not exist either. Humans would just be programmed puppets to do what God wills, there would not exist such a thing as good or evil. The sole existence of free will and choice on disobeying or obeying God's will, creates good or evil.
"Some evils are necessary to obtain a higher order good." An omnipotent God would be able to create a universe in which higher order good could exist without evil.
This is part of the reason why I disagree when Theists try and solve the Omnipotence Paradox by arguing that God is only able to do anything that is logically possible, (no square circles, etc.) because that is a limit on his power and therefore contradicts the entire meaning of omnipotence. To be truly all powerful you wouldn't be bound within the limits of even logic itself.
It's also a bad justification because such "higher order" goods would be rendered *obsolete* without evil. There is no need for bravery if there is nothing to ever fear. There is no need for charity if no one ever lacks in what they need. Not to mention this is literally what Heaven is supposed to be, so why does evil need to exist here on Earth to allow the existence of higher order goods and not in Heaven?
When I look around at what is happening in the world, I really only see 3 possibilities: -He's a cruel sadist -or he doesn't give a shit -or he just doesn't exist!
I have another one: - This god is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent but instead there are multiple gods with varying views on morality like in the old religions. Because this worldview brings less than half of the problems the Christian worldview brings.
His second point was bad.the suffering he said that helped us improved. Also what about suffering that helps us?why would an evil God allow us to suffer to make us stronger and more passionate about things?
@@kudzaiedziwa6433 He is the god of this world, like having a deal with God..see who he can Mislead..God is testing us if we really love him.. Those who endures to the end will get a crown as it is written..kind of sport 🤔
They say he made us in his image, maybe he's just as conflicted as we are. I'm not religious, but if there is a God it seems more likely to me that he's the sort that would at least try to do good, but maybe he's not all powerful like the religious say he is. Religious people would dismiss it as magical thinking to suggest that our actions have a direct connection to God's ability to do good, but maybe the reason bad stuff happens so often is because we aren't doing enough to stop it and maybe it's not God's fault. As an atheist, I know that's pragmatically the same as there not being a God, I just wonder why the idea is so unpopular in religion. Is it as simple as the fact that a God who's anything less than omnipotent can lose a fight to somebody else's God? I'd rather worship a God that could admit to his flaws than one that forces us to justify evil as part of his plan.
life has far more unsatisfactory moments than satisfactory. if a god exists i liken him to that commercial where the fisherman is messing with a person using a dollar bill(fleeting good moments) on a fishing line.
I think that's one of the only ways you could logically justify the lack of evidence. He deliberately keeps evidence of his existence out of the universe, so we don't have a reason for the suffering; we just suffer. Nothing confirmed to rally against, no confirmed common enemy causing a sense of unity. It's really one of the only things that works, isn't it? That said I don't believe it, a lack of evidence is a lack of evidence, but damn it makes some level of sense if you squint a bit.
@@i_am_anxious02I think besides god being utterly evil (or atleast having ill intentions such us being an experiment made in a lab), the other ways that makes sense to me assuming that god is an intelligible being is that he a) He is unaware of our existence b) He is aware of us but doesnt care c) He is aware of us and does care but is unable to intervene in our lifes
@@XEveryoneLovesEmilyX Alan Moore's Watchmen was unironically the best character study of a truly powerful God, using his character Dr Manhattan. Even if this God spent time as a person on this planet (like Jesus) it wouldn't matter, Alan Moore argues. Because with Dr Manhattan who essentially was born and lived on earth as a petty human, his transformation into a higher being removed his care even for those he used to have attachment to. What makes the classical god even worse is that he wasn't even born into humanity. He was born completely alien to it. To quote Dr Manhattan himself: "I am tired of earth. I'm tired of the tangle of human lives"
You guys might find Gnosticism interesting. It posits that we live in a world under the domain of a lesser God, and that the greater God is largely unknowable. It's based on Platoism to a degree. The Monad, that is, the higher God, is a lot more like the Tao. A sort of pervasive, all encompassing thing that exists in all things. A sort of panentheism. But the lower god is confined to the material plane, being ignorant and possibly evil. You don't have to believe it to find it interesting. It just shows that even in the earliest days of Christianity, there were people questioning the narrative.
@@Alias79555soo rare to find someone else reference the gnostics. Blew my wind when I heard about alternate versions of “christianity”. Of course the, all loving, orthodoxy made quick work of them, and others… but mention any of this to Christian’s and they’ll laugh and claim “you don’t know what you’re talking about”.
@@jimherald4069 That which hinders the flourishing of our species. I know it’s an ultimately subjective definition, but it would be appropriate assuming a personal god.
Although I am perfectly happy with the recent shift of focus this channel has taken- it is always a treat to see Alex give us a video about God and religion!
@Cave Johnson Did you even read the comment you're replying to? A.J. said he's perfectly happy with the content shift. He is clearly not attacking veganism with his comment making your reply seem like an unjustified attack riddled with assumptions. Assumptions are the antithesis of skepticism and it is disheartening to see followers of "cosmicSKEPTIC" acting in this manner. A lot of Alex's subscribers found his channel from his religious debunking videos and followed his channel specifically for this content. This doesn't mean that they don't appreciate his videos on veganism, rather that they especially like his videos on religion. This is what I think A.J. was attempting to convey.
@Cave Johnson That’s precisely how i interpreted your comment. This once again shows that comment sections are not particularly good at conveying sarcasm/intention. As i was reading it, the alternative interpretation was you being actually honest and voicing out the cognitive dissonance that many (maybe most?) omnivores feel when the morals of their food choices are called out. In any case, understanding and adopting veganism is _in my limited experience_ more of a process than an instant choice, just like abandoing beliefs in supernatural entities seems to be for most people. In both cases it is a process. For some it is a painful one; for some, it is not.
@Cave Johnson Those vegan videos aren't challenging at all. But of course you will dismiss the fact that your description of the opposition doesn't match up because of your already existing inclination. See how silly that is?
@@1mol831 most are worse. Groups can sort and make a good world or two out of the mess.... In the multiverse there is multiple universes and they each have a multi dimensional field with their own dimensions......
I just hate that innocent children suffer from many things that they don't deserve and they don't get any help, does god not care about them just because someone took a damn fruit from a tree? Answer: Clearly not because God does not exist
I think the answer to your question is that God does care about innocent children, similar to how he cares for all people. Taking fruit from the tree just happens to be the first case of what 99.99% of humans do: which is violate objective moral truths. If you think about it, so many forms of suffering result from the lengthy human history of doing wrong, and failing to do right. Even the sorts of suffering we don’t usually attribute fault to other people for, since it’s conceivable that these kinds of things could have been overcome had humans not wasted so much time and effort being against one another. Why doesn’t God just make humans not able to be evil, if this would basically end all suffering? A possible explanation is then we would be without free will, and probably live like a tree or plant, existing as life, but with no ability to be our unique and interesting selves.
By taking the fruit Eve and Adam put themselves in a different reality -- harsh and materialistic, where suffering exists for every living creature regardless of age or presumed innocence. Adam and Eve switched to this new reality and everybody who is born to them belongs to it. These are just the attributes of the world into which they decided to go in order to know “good and evil”. Knowledge is a hard thing.
I suffer greatly at work, but then I remember that it doesn't last forever, I go home and relax and am thankful for the difficulties I experience to toughen me up a little bit and to give me some first hand knowledge of challenges. The more I do it, the more I get a little better for it. My heart gets weary at times, but I have no reason to despair, only count my blessings.
Unlike you I know God true nature. God can be good and evil at the same time. He created the universe just entrainment himself because he was bored. We are an extention of God's nature, we have free will like him. But he can influence us to do sometimes what he wants us to do good or evil. And when we die, what's really happening is that God make us reincarnated in a new life just to his eternal entrainment. It will never and, you're happiness and your pain will never and. There is heaven or hell. We just make a reincarnation to another human life. That's the truth that God reveals to me. Now you know the all truth.
Saying "there has to be evil, otherwise there would be no good" is like saying "there has to be cancer, otherwise there would be no chemotherapy". Wouldn't it be better if there was _neither?_
Technically I'm not siding with the religious argument, but that comparison sort of lacks. The existence of darkness is necessary otherwise there would be no darkness. Chemotherapy isnt an absolute or a solution or a counter to cancer.
@@JMUDoc In what equation? Theyre essentially the same except if you add them they decrease eachother. They are absolutes alone but when compared they contrast. Realize that an absolute good and an absolute bad is essentially the same in extremities but not in terms of functionality and the fact that they contrast
@Alex Sandelin According the the Bible assembled by the Romans? Who then told you it was Gods definitive word? And youtube video's proves it? If you had been born in Saudi Arabia you would be singing the praises of Muhammad and Allah. There's this concept taught by one of histories greatest avatars about seeking and knocking. I highly recommend it.
The more I see of cancer, disease,war,suffering,and then point out that God himself tried to wipe away all humanity with a great flood. Then yes the more I do believe he is truly EVIL 😱
You're not using your brain here. Okay so you're using and applying God does exist. What is God then if he is evil? Still the creator,still the omni-everything. Then how can you say God is evil for killing or destroying if He is the Creator? You see you fail to understand the concept of what is right and what is wrong.And you didn't even explain the chapter properly about the reason for the flood.
@@khrawbryan So might makes right? Thats a very fragile position to take and many will raise eyebrows at you. If he came down to you and told you to start mυrdering people because its a good thing that must be done, would you do it? A really easy way to find the psychοs.
@@Atlas718 Frame your question properly about God coming and saying kill someone cause it's a good thing again cause there's a flaw in your statement if you want me to geniunely answer. Also according to you what is right and what is wrong?
@@khrawbryan Its a simple question, would you or would you not. But if you want a more detailed explanation at what I am getting at, is morally independent of God? Is morality above God, something he cannot tamper with and change. If the answer is yes, then such a command is ludicrous. If the answer is no, and God determines what is good, then God would have the power to tell you that command is good. The aim here is to see what you think of this. I just want to understand if you think might makes right, nothing more than understanding what kind of a person you are, I am not here to have a hardcore debate. If someone told me that mυrder is good because God told them it is, then thats all I need. That would be their moral foundation and I can react to that response accordingly. You can dodge the question, if you do I wouldn't require an answer because I would've gotten it already and will be sure to keep my distance. I've met such people in the real world. and their answers really say alot about them. We as humanity have already seen instances of people doing heinοus acts in the name of Gοd and those criminals saying that what they did was the will of God. Ultimately what it really shows to me is that their mοral fοundation is very unstable and something our society should be wary of.
Alex, I’m a Christian, and I just wanted to thank you for providing challenges towards my worldview. It’s always a delight to watch your videos that leave me with a big question that I can think about and have fun trying to figure out all day. Again, truly a pleasure. Thank you. Keep it up (:
Kudos to you both for taking on the challenges and thinking about this stuff! It's pretty great to reflect and... either affirm the validity of a belief, or, perhaps even more rewarding, to find a new one!
@Anarcho Veganism name and present one such position ("steel man" it), and then show your disproof. I suspect you'll find it difficult, at least to be convincing.
@John E. Hofmann Hello. I have something important to tell you: The bible makes it clear that God is holy. This holy God holds a perfect moral standard. Sadly, we have all fallen way short of that standard(Romans 3:23). The penalty for sin/imperfection is Hell(Revelation 21:8). Thankfully the bible also says that God is rich in mercy and grace. That is why He sent His perfect Son to die on a cross to save us from our sin. You and I broke God's law but Jesus paid our fine. Then Jesus rose from the dead, 3 day later, thus defeating death! "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. But whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them." John 3:36
My philosophy teacher was once talking about the idea of evil geniuses, and I decided to ask if it was possible that God could be an evil genius (because the way he was talking, it seemed like he was dancing around the topic). He told me that I shouldn't ask that because it might "offend other people".
He is a evil genius, If you accepted God is all knowing and all powerful(Isaiah 46:10 Psalm 139:1-6) you just acknowledge that God could have created a universe where Satan didn’t rebel, Adam and Eve didn’t disobey, And TONS OF BILLIONS didn’t have to be killed and condemned into hell. Meaning he knew exactly what he was doing when creating Satan, he knew Adam and Eve would disobey and fail, he knew BILLIONS would be killed and condemned to hell.
The definition of good is something of which we can all approve, or some approve, but also, good isn’t just something that’s positive, it can also be a state of being, say, I grow an apple tree and the tree bears fruit, and I eat that apple and it tastes good, it doesn’t have to be sweet, although it would make it taste good, so long as it’s left uncorrupted from bugs or mold, the apple is good, it’s in a good state of being. But if decay or bugs cause the apple to rot, it no longer is good, firstly, because it won’t taste good, but most importantly, because it’s state of being has been corrupted, GOD is good, because HE both gives life its joys and secondly because the things HE created and HIMSELF are what is normal, when something distorts GODs creation, it’s no longer good, for its now abnormal, but since GOD is HIMSELF, that is HIS good, not that HE is limited by this small definition, but something is only evil if it distorts what is normal or in GODs will, now, just because something is deformed doesn’t mean that it no longer is good in itself, it’s abnormalities are not good, but the being for which it was made to be, despite the distortion it may have, still would make it good.
Have you ever considered other definitions of God? Like you think of him as a robot maker, but what if he was the One we're all in? Like, what if he was the Mind and we're some type of neurons; be it conscious ones? And if he was dreaming, then this would explain all the lunacy we're living in, right?
@juanit0tackit0tackito2 I like the wit in your reasoning but God still drowned every but 2 of each of all the animals on earth bcuz the humans and nephilim we're running amok. it wasn't the animals that were responsible but they were drowned anyway and for nothing because the righteous who were saved immediately behaved wickedly in God's according to God's law... Noah's sons and humanity went on to be wicked in soddom and gomorrah and the family he saved immediately turned to incest. is that God being in a state of goodness? further, regarding the last 2 paragraphs, was God omniscient in not foreseeing their wicked acts? and is not selectively removing the wicked instead of drowning countless blameless animals omnipotent? ❤️🩹 ✌🏼
@@amirpride8702even if Satan decided not to betray God but another angel could have in his stead and besides we still always had the option to anyways, so you can't blame satan for our mistake like if a husband had the choice to cheat his wife and even if his mistress wasn't there the are many other women and the husband could have just divorced for any reason at all
"Some evils are necessary to obtain a higher order good" "Some goods are necessary to obtain a higher order of evil" Crazy how that is still valid. This video is great and terrible all at the same time. Great job bro
Crazy how those arguments are functionally identical and have the same explanatory power when explaining the condition of our world... Never even thought about it this before 😅
This was the plot of an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents in the 50s. A mobster wanted to kill someone, but she was so depressed and guilty she welcomed death. So he gives her everything she wants, maximizes her happiness, and then shoots her.
Beastiliality, incest, in-humane torture, yup a maximally evil God doesn’t exist otherwise everytime the sun rose everyone would be in excruciating agonizing pain, but hey if you think your logic works for a maximally evil god go ahead
I've always wondered if God is indeed evil. Especially after reading the Old Testament. It's an interesting idea. The anime "Berserk" is a very philosophical series that features a God that is evil. It's literally called "The Idea of Evil."
@Visitor Sin We know nothing about a possible real god. No one knows if an intelligent designer exists or not. In any case I don't think he would intervene in any of his creation's business. What I am trying to ask is: what if the whole compendium of abrahamic religions is based on chronicles concerning the encounter of humanity with individuals that only later have been mistaken as gods, but in reality they were simply individuals with a better technology and a greater knowledge? It's a controversial subject, but it's quite plausible.
@@TheGianluman i think it's more plausible to think these beings are fictional than it is for them to be real but somehow have a higher level of technology than the others and then be mistaken for gods, but its certainly an interesting idea
"Is your god good?" "Yes." "Define "good"." "That which is consistent with my god's nature." "So, when you say your god is good, you're saying nothing more than that he's consistent with his own nature. Everything is consistent with its own nature - you win the Tautology of the Year Award for 2020."
@@mandooakes8509 Tautologies are always true, they just don't impart any information - what's the point of telling me that one's god is consistent with his own nature? Even if he/she exists, that is a given. Also, if the existence of goodness is intended to argue towards the existence of the god, defining "good" in terms of that god's nature is to beg the question. IMO, good = that which intends to increase justified wellbeing and/or reduce unjustified harm.
If God created all things with full knowledge of their intentions before their creation, then God knowingly and willingly created lucifer, and ultimately evil.
@M Hitchens famously said, of course you have free will, you have no choice not to. A true free will could turn off its free will and be subservient. But this is not possible. Inner thoughts can not be controlled, even if the individual deeply and truly wishes that they would be.
@M But aren't we all operating according to God's plan? So doesn't God know already what we're going to choose? Where's the choice if it's already decided by God?
@M Then why condem all of humanity for the actions of innocents? They literally couldn´t distinguish good from bad, even if God commanded to never eat the fruit, how could they knew it was right to obey? They didn´t knew it was bad to be like God, and distinguish good from evil because they *didn´t knew* any of those concepts. If he already knew they would condem humanity and cause horrible attrocities across history, and never returning to the same relationship with him, then why not change that? If he is omnipotent, then why he couldn´t change this vital event for us?
@M but if he knows our intentions before doing something is that really free will? Also, what about "The Plan" that he has, and to what extent is it planned? If he plans our whole lives is that free will? Do we HAVE to go with this "plan"?
Vegan is evil but free will allows you to hate all life because obvs you can't have life without death and to vegans that's evil and the answer is no life of course you would have to kill people like kid's in children's homes and hospices all suffer more than farm animals that live in luxury compared to some people so veganisum can only end with all life gone forever but I'm sure you have good intentions deep down just misinformed
@Shaun Welch lol no it's a terrible diet for health since this is a new vegan u think they should do some research vagens are pale age fast and brain's deteriorate fast look at you you can't even have a civil discussion you say I'm wrong like you get to define whats right and wrong you don't wild animals would replace farm animals if we stopped farming they are always hungry or hunted full of parasites no vets...so happy farm animals is the morale high ground you don't have to agree society defines what's morale and agrees with me since many people cant go vegan and 80% of vegans quit many for health reasons you'll always be a tiny misinformed minority that's morally wrong.......but your logic is to end suffering to be morale why not ban car's they kill animal's and people every day but we as a society decided that is worth the cost for the luxury of car's...so you'll always be wrong it's just life
Aren’t our brains designed to detect danger? Aka horror. Meaning the brain jumps to bad endings to keep us alive. So most of us are just seeing the negative things about the world
@SupremeAtheist can you explain how there is significantly more evil than good as that is just a matter of perspective and besides I find it unreasonable to blame a god for our choices, not his or Satan's or anyone's but ours so before you say god should stop all evil, you have to believe in free will and the fact we cause evil in order to put to frame evil and as for natural disasters, also our fault for renouncing God and we allow us to be prideful and rely on our own instead of God's aif and protect in the garden so we should own responsibility for our evils individually and as a species
@@lbozo8268 thousands of things aren’t free will: natural disasters, cancer, KIDS dying from cancer, the fact that we die isn’t free will it’s determined, watching our loved ones die, and so much more
Parasite bees. Animals that need protein to survive. Even I, would I be omnipotent, could create world with much less suffering without affecting theology itself; just make all animals vegan, or able to get (enough) energy from sunlight. Or not need food at all. Many animals eat others alive, and some don't mind doing the same for humans. And these animals were created by supposedly all-loving God. Also, humans crave protein from animals (because we're animals too), so it is guaranteed suffering even if we never stole anything, wouldn't wage wars and never commit adultery
So simple yet so powerful. I'm a deistic pantheist and I've always been sure that if a god existed (or some cause conscious in some inhuman way) it would be neither good nor evil, and this perfectly illustrated my point of view.
It's not your fault your taste buds are faulty little bio-miscreants born of obsolete genetics that would have been weeded out in a harsher world, so don't take that shot (or this one) personally. ;3
When I was christian, I always pictured God as neither good nor evil, being maximally lawful neutral, allowing both good and evil to balance each other, while focusing on keeping the universe from imploding.
I have never heard this evil god problem from anyone else, people always told me I was crazy for thinking that. Turns out now I discover the existence of this video and all said in it corresponding a thought I've had since I was a kid.
The evil God problem isn't really a problem though. Read the old testament and you will see God is the epitome of evil. So of course the world would be full of evil if the God of the Bible created it, he is self-acknowledged to be incredible cruel and merciless.
I knew this as a kid I always listened to the pastor and a lot of things I couldn’t wrap my head around for one action I can be sent to hell but keep being good cos he might forgive you and you’ll only find out once you’re dead I had a hard time thinking my family could be split apart and ever since I’ve taught of killed god “yaldabaoth”
The gnostics believe that God is an evil entity that, in truth, is what christians call the devil that trapped us in this plane of existence that turns out to be "hell."
The definition of good is something of which we can all approve, or some approve, but also, good isn’t just something that’s positive, it can also be a state of being, say, I grow an apple tree and the tree bears fruit, and I eat that apple and it tastes good, it doesn’t have to be sweet, although it would make it taste good, so long as it’s left uncorrupted from bugs or mold, the apple is good, it’s in a good state of being. But if decay or bugs cause the apple to rot, it no longer is good, firstly, because it won’t taste good, but most importantly, because it’s state of being has been corrupted, GOD is good, because HE both gives life its joys and secondly because the things HE created and HIMSELF are what is normal, when something distorts GODs creation, it’s no longer good, for its now abnormal, but since GOD is HIMSELF, that is HIS good, not that HE is limited by this small definition, but something is only evil if it distorts what is normal or in GODs will, now, just because something is deformed doesn’t mean that it no longer is good in itself, it’s abnormalities are not good, but the being for which it was made to be, despite the distortion it may have, still would make it good.
Additionally, Theists also respond that “God has a bigger plan” i.e. an reason for allowing evil that is beyond our comprehension But this does also work in reverse for the Evil God
Yeah and it's also completely inconsistent since on some issues they claim to perfectly know god's will (condoms, abortion, homosexuals, etc) and then, as you said, for the problem of evil they say stuff like 'well of course it doesn't make sense to you, that's just because we are not able to understand god's plan'
Pleasant things are an incentive to exploit more people to get more pleasant things. This is why we can't have nice things. /uj actually nice things can exist outside of capitalism, and we could have even more nice things and more importantly distribute these nice things way more evenly without capitalism, so yes capitalism is why we can't have nice things. Now go smash capitalism, you can still be a communist if you like stuff everyone
“If god is evil, then why is there so much good?” He tried his best with the Bible to get people to defend genocide, slavery, and misogyny, and it has worked for millions, maybe billions
I like this video however there’s one thing they misconceder just because you look outside and see beauty does not mean an evil god does not make sense he could be a trickster making things seem good so you praise him even when he is torturing the shit out of you job is perfect for this he went through hell at the hands of god thourgh satan for god knew what satan would do yet job was supposed to still stay loyal and when bad things happen to us were supposed to think it happens for a reason right a good read apparently a perfect disguise for a trickster I hurt you but only because it’ll help you in the end yet if he’s all powerful couldn’t he find a way to help you without evil having to happen trust in yourself learn right and wrong from life and don’t follow religion it’ll fuck you up I still am recovering from that crap
I always hated the ,,have lower order“ to appreciate a ,,higher order“ argument. Look at your dog, he’s warm, cozy, fed, walked around and u love and cuddle him. Does your dog know anything else? No! Does he seem empty or unhappy because of it? Nah! He just enjoys! In fact, dogs luckily seem super happy all the time.
Interestingly, the Zoroastrians had a concept of two gods - one good, the other evil - because they simply could not come to terms with the concept of a sole omnipotent god being entirely good. An interesting solution to a very old dilemma.
Christianity basically did the same by pinning evil on Satan, turning it from a title for a nameless agent of a capricious God to the name of a singular being that introduced evil into the world. But then Christians couldn't let go of the idea that God must be maximally powerful and benevolent and infinitely more in charge than Satan, and so it fell into an absurdity that they've been trying to rationalize for two millennia. Gnostics did it somewhat similarly by pinning evil on the Demiurge (identified with Yahweh in the Old Testament), but then they posited that the supreme being is a deistic god, and that enlightenment could come from acquiring knowledge of this being. It's interesting to wonder about how Christianity might have wound up had Gnosticism become orthodoxy.
@@Mrbrycejames well actually, it is emotional engagement that stimulates your attention to learn with eagerness! It links with interest and passion. I would also say to establish a rule of principles within judgement in order to make confident debates. I totally can acknowledge that I could show you evidence that IQ is just a number that defines a result within a specific period of time you previously evaluated yourself!
I think dc comics said the best quote for these aruments of good and evil . dream said to Lucifer "What is the point of hell if its sinners couldn't dream of heaven"
Unlike you I know God true nature. God can be good and evil at the same time. He created the universe just entrainment himself because he was bored. We are an extention of God's nature, we have free will like him. But he can influence us to do sometimes what he wants us to do good or evil. And when we die, what's really happening is that God make us reincarnated in a new life just to his eternal entrainment. It will never and, you're happiness and your pain will never and. There is heaven or hell. We just make a reincarnation to another human life. That's the truth that God reveals to me. Now you know the all truth.
The skill of reversing arguments to analyze them like this is powerful but difficult to develop to the point that it can readily be used during a debate. Thanks @CosmicSkeptic for this exercise in rationality.
I think it could also be viewed that Satan is the co-creator with God of the nature of the human consciousness and that God is cutting Satan out of the future development of humanity by playing the character of Jesus. But humans have free will and can choose to stay in the Satan world that is headed for destruction or leave behind Satan's world and rejoin with God.
@@stephensinclair3771 Thanks. I couldn't think of the name. If I had to choose a Christian dogma, this one is near the top of the list for making way more sense to me than modern dogmas.
@@drewharrison6433 the history of these ideas is kind of the smoking gun (if it was needed) that tells you its all made up. In more modern times you had people try to introduce the idea of soul sleep 💤 the old r I p idea. The souls of the dead are not conscious until the last day. It was a bit of a hard sell compared to a personal encounter with the almighty on your own death. Nowadays it has the fancy name Christian nominism. Calvin and Luther had those of their followers who tried to introduce it killed and driven underground....or as they would have argued - the Holy ghost 👻 did it and ran away.
@@stephensinclair3771 I am certainly glad that I don't have to choose a Christian dogma. I can just do what they did and make something up thar makes sense to me. Of course what I made up doesn't have a supreme creator...
@@almukhlabi well I finally found it... and I’m disappointed. Your contention with the video (and has nothing to do with my comment btw) was that Alex didn’t consider your specific theology and the idea of the afterlife. He was looking specifically about what we can see in the world now because that’s all the problem of evil was ever contending with. His aim to was to show that the problem of evil and the ‘problem of good’ both explain our word with equal explanatory power. That’s it. Why you responded to my joke comment I’ll never know I guess.
Have you ever heard the Qur’an talking about Jesus and his mother, peace be upon a translator. Did you know that Jesus and his mother mentioned the Qur’an 25 times? Listen to me the linkua-cam.com/video/Tm2hW3p9QaYD/v-deo.htmlo you have a question you want to know about Islam? We answer your question within the linkwww.faithchat.com. س
You know, if we were born again and I could know some things, I probably wouldn't have children. I love them so much and I don't want them to suffer, but life is suffering. 🫤
Interesting, I never thought of reversing the argument. It seems to work, except when I consider evil: most religious consider evil to be whatever is against the will of God. By that definition, God can't be evil, but rather morally neutral, if not actually good. Aside from this, I find the speculation fascinating. I liked the video. A good explanation of the understanding of good and evil!
They make bullshit argument, change translations, versions, to be able to make arguments. For example they could argue that God creates the challenges, that SEEM to be calamities and problems, that tests his people. Yeajh, because a God that KNOWS EVERYTHING, needs to tests people to chech if they're good or bad.
@@anonymoussecretly2638 Check yourself. All I gotta say is, be humble. Correction isnt me being above you, it's just me(an imperfect being) giving you what's correct(so you know what's better). I didn't trashtalk your grammar. I just said he made more sense which is a fact. If you dont wanna deal with it then dont. I'm not forcing you in any way. Peace.
Before we decide, we must look at how we pass judgment: 1. A person needs only commit evil ONCE to be labeled or imprisoned for life. 2. Most people would embrace higher authority out of selfishness, not out of justice. Let’s apply that to god. Next in line is the definition of good: Good is a necessity to protect interests from the ever lurking evil in the world. A parental love for offsprings. A partner’s care from breakup or betrayal. Giving the poor to prevent further evil from spreading. Evils we weren’t responsible for to begin with.
What every person must realize on this world is that One who created this all can only decide what is what because He is Ultimate Creator of Everything including what will be good and what will be evil and He have power to sustain it
The loving God who put us all into a world full of nothing but pain and misery just to test whether we'll bend over backwards to make him feel like a king.
@@almightybunny3320 Maybe it's for entertainment? or it could be a some mysterious reason we wouldn't be able to understand. It's like a ants trying to understand why humans do things. Even as Atheist, I would've guessed if god exist we will be never understand the meaning and reasoning behind their action. Or just maybe no one is piloting this ship called the universe and the universe is just on a autopilot.
@@almightybunny3320 If I were God I would probably create living things in order to 'feel'. Before the creation of whatever there is to call a 'world' there was nothing but emptiness. Or I would simply be a consciousness that coming into being ultimately gave way to the creation of the world. I have no idea what actually happened cause given that God is true, I'm not God and I wasn't born before the world came into being.
@t tuber He bring me bad things anyways. So what is the use of being non-blasphemous? Plus, just look at the old testament. Who torment Job? Who kill innocent children in Egypt instead of their sinful parents themselves? Who drowned millions of people in Noah's time? Satan? Oh come on man!
It hinges on who is defining good and evil. If "you" (or I) get to decide what is good and what is evil, then you can either have a good God, an evil God, or something in between.
The other thing to consider for an "evil" god allowing good is that if everyone was completely evil all the time, the world would end quickly. In order to prolong suffering, some good must be allowed to exist to continue the human experience. There's actually more reasons for an evil god than a good one, really. Not that I think there is a god at all, of course.
Why doesn’t an evil god just create us and revive us, that would be more evil, oops your logic is flawed Beastiliality, incest, in-humane torture, yup a maximally evil God doesn’t exist otherwise everytime the sun rose everyone would be in excruciating agonizing pain, but hey if you think your logic works for a maximally evil god go ahead
Evil god can’t exist, otherwise pedophilia or murder wouldn’t be a taboo in societies. Under a universe with an evil God, people in societies would regress morally, there would be large movement to bring back slavery and taking away women’s rights. Narcissistic personality traits would be naturally selected for
Avoid coconut-based at all costs! It gets all weird and clumpy when added to coffee, I don't even know why they make it 😂 Most people like almond-based creamer perfectly well, but cashew and oat are by far the creamiest if you can find them. Oat and soy both have higher protein content, although soy tends to be an acquired taste for most people.
Congrats ! It is truly a pleasure to know you are part of our movement ! And don't forget, repetition legitimizes. After a year of being vegan, I don't even remember what milk tasted like, let alone cream. It's easier to accept and cherish alternatives after awhile, since our memories are slowly decaying, and our tastes always evolving.
Have you ever heard the Qur’an talking about Jesus and his mother, peace be upon a translator. Did you know that Jesus and his mother mentioned the Qur’an 25 times? Listen to me the linkua-cam.com/video/Tm2hW3p9QaYD/v-deo.htmlo you have a question you want to know about Islam? We answer your question within the linkwww.faithchat.com. س
Basically, we're left with the middle position: an indifferent god may exist who doesn't care about the universe or anyone in it, and my not even be aware it created a universe; in which case it doesn't matter whether we believe in it or not
@Alex Garcia 6 out of 10 for creativity; 10 out of 10 for BS. If your god is omnipotent, and omniscient then it's impossible for his plan to go astray, and if he's omnibenevolent he wouldn't create a place to punish people eternally for a finite crime
@Alex Garcia "Good and Evil are the awareness of what's right from wrong", so why did your god deny that awareness to Adam and Eve? Without that awareness they should not be punished for your god's failure to provide that awareness. Your god really is quite incompetent for an omniscient, omnipotent being, and quite vengeful for an omnibenevolent one. "but God has two answers for that according to the bible", you assume the Bible is divinely inspired, which it clearly isn't. and "2. There is little you can do about it: ", which was my original point: it doesn't matter either way. and finally: "Hell is really separation from God", I disagree, eternal torment is being forced to be in the presence of the psychotic, cruel, unjust maniac forever, and being made to enjoy it
As a Christian I always appreciate these videos by you man. It paints a clearer picture no matter what side you are on. You are probably one of the most objective thinkers I can think of and it’s why I subscribe to you. Keep it up my man! 👍🏽
Day 2 of petitioning you to make a discord server where us fans can actually have good conversations with you : ) Btw, i'm never disappointed with your content. Always love coming back!
Nice video Alex, myself an a few family members from Ireland have booked Vegan Camp Out 2021, looking forward to hearing you speak. Was there in 2019 absolutely great experience.🌱🌍
God: the pure, subsisting act of being itself Goodness: being as perfective and sought after by an appetite Evil: the lack of due prefective being “*drooling* cOuLd GoD bE eViL?”
Alex does a wonderful job of turning the theist defenses against themselves However, even more striking / impressive, is that Alex can go through all of the arguments, forward first and then backward, without getting lost in all of the convolutions! My goodness, he is a clear thinker (and speaker)!!
I had the pleasure of Stephen Law coming to my school and talking about this idea. I even got to speak to him about my EPQ (which was on a philosophical topic). It was fantastic
Actually, having some living well while others live horrible lives is _exactly_ the kind of inequality that an evil god would create. That disparity creates the motivation for evil.
Believers should ask themselves a couple of questions, starting with these = 1. How did you determine that ‘god’ is the good one and satan is the evil one? What basis do you use to determine that your god is “good/moral”? 2. What acts would your "god" have to commit in order for you to consider him Evil? Honestly think about those...
1) we've seen how God is and how satan is; God saved us from sinful lives. sometimes you just know what's from the devil and what's not. similar to a hunch or the classic "i have a bad feeling about this" 2) depend if God does things unnecessarily and hurts people just because Also, we have various types of evidence for biblical events, if you're interested. good questions, by the way
@@spider-man9118 1. Yes, we've read the claimed things that both did in the bibles. The "Body Count" alone says that the god of the bibles is the BIGGEST MASS MURDERER in all of History! Save for those on the Arc, he KILLED off EVERY living creature on the planet!!! He's then killed off alot more and even Commanded the Killings of alot more. So not only did he Kill, but he Commanded Humans to Kill. So on one hand he says = "Thou shall not kill"... then in other verses HE COMMANDS KILLINGS!!! Compare that to the "Satan" character. In the bibles he is said to have killed, you know how many? It says he killed = 10 people!!!! So the god of the bibles Killed off every living creature on the Planet, and Satan only killed 10 people. Honestly, you tell me, who is the "Evil" one of those 2? 2.The question was = "What acts would your "god" have to commit in order for you to consider him Evil?" -- You said = "depend if God does things unnecessarily and hurts people just because" Again, Honestly think about your reply. Is that "god" All Knowing? If yes, then he EASILY could think of better ways to get ANYTHING done with ZERO Killings and Sufferings, right? Is he All Powerful? If yes, then he has the Power to make it happen with those ZERO killings and Suffering. Is he All Loving? If yes, then he would WANT to do it in a way with ZERO Killings and ZERO Suffering. Yet, the "god" of the bibles just KILLS off the entire population of Earth and causes and allows Pain and Suffering....so those Deaths ARE as you said "unnecessarily and hurts people just because". That at the very least means it is not All Loving.
@@joegame4576 -- 1. So you say you used = "revelation, teaching, and logic." If that were true, you'd be Atheist right now. 2. Your answer to "what acts would your "god" have to commit in order for you to consider him Evil?", is = "nothing." Honestly, think about that. You are saying that your god could Rape your children.... and you'd wouldn't consider him Evil!?? Your god could torture every living creature alive for all of Eternity for his Entertainment... and you still would not consider him Evil... think of what that says about you.
You’d get a more straight forward answer asking a wall. You’re talking about a group of people that worship a deity that supposedly flooded the earth because people were banging their own family members (among other things)… so god, in his wisdom, decides to pick one RIGHTEOUS family to build a massive boat and then… Bang each other for repopulation. - (This happens again in sodom & Gomorrah,,, the Sexual relations between family, not the boat building lollll) Right, and these people claim that this “god” of theirs is good and the basis for all good moral behavior 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@iru_es GOD created people out of love. The same way a father and mother create life out of love. But ask yourself, is the parent evil because of the child doing?
That’s very interesting, I hope your mental health was in tack. I went through that too, and it was hell believing that my fate was in the hands of an all powerful evil god. I was so afraid of dying and going to hell but as much as I tried to pretend to love god for my salvation, I just couldn’t. It was years of torment and me hopelessly trying to be saved by the god I hated. The ultimate and most brutally horrifying prison. Thank goodness it’s all over now. Did you go through anything similar? I’m really curious
@@RonaldinhoGoat not exactly, I believed that I was basically born to go to hell my existence was merely to suffer and this is the time of my life all my self harm scars come from
Stan: Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend? Chef: Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand? Stan: But then, why does God give us anything to start with? Chef: Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and health just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power
I think you're angry because of the sh...ty theology they taught you at Church. If you try to think of God independently of the mainstream religion, you'll find a completely different story.
@Mystic_Jawhar_Saaleh I didn't. I found a ruthless, evil deity hellBENT on treating me horribly- all my life. Literally, ALL MY LIFE. I've been tortured by this deity. Him, and his followers. A lifetime of abuse, theft, and betrayal. Not one bit of help. Prayer did exactly nothing.
@magicalvoidgirl3246well one reason might be we all learn and experience things different the lessons they learned won’t necessarily be what you might How deep did you dive?
@magicalvoidgirl3246 don't let Dovaloser gaslight you, you found no true good in them, because the core of most religions is the vile notion that humans are born evil.
Have you ever heard the Qur’an talking about Jesus and his mother, peace be upon a translator. Did you know that Jesus and his mother mentioned the Qur’an 25 times? Listen to me the linkua-cam.com/video/Tm2hW3p9QaYD/v-deo.htmlo you have a question you want to know about Islam? We answer your question within the linkwww.faithchat.com.
@Shaun Welch reading your comment made me feel alot less alone I plan to beat god into the ground while screaming at him if he exists. I cant do what i want with life thanks to things outside of my controll
It is very important to look at the arguments within the bigger picture. You can flip arguments around all day long but without context, it`s just not relevant in order to explain reality in a plausible way. I made a video about it. Check it if you like! :) much love!
@@wideroomband There is context. And your right the argument doesn't make since, that is the point. How could the "author" of good create evil? Every question in you video can be flipped. Regarding your argument with ight is a metaphor has problems. Light and darkness are not inherently evil or bad. They both serve a purpose.
There is OVERWHELMINGLY more evil than good in the world. Thus an evil god is overwhelmingly more likely than a good god. And that's even without humans. Just look at the pain & suffering in the nature.
In Italy one very common pizza is “pizza con patate e rosmarino”. That’s pizza with potatoes and rosemary, without tomato. It’s fkin amazing! But I’d think that most people agreeing that pineapple is weird on a pizza wouldn’t want potatoes on their pizza either.
@@DeathWithinTenSteps I don't know about that, I think the weird thing about pineapple on pizza is that it's unusual to have something sweet on a pizza
but Muslims says this can make a differentiation between the true believer and the fake one i think this is some how a good answer to the problem, also not to forget they saying the God is wise and evil thing could be a good thing for you to make you stronger and so on, it is just like job story in the bible
Follow Jesus and repent. Jesus is coming soon! Jesus died on a cross for OUR sins, believe and trust and live for Jesus and you will be saved. If you don't believe in God look outside your window, do you think all of that beauty came from literally nothing?! Jesus is coming soon. Also I have seen Angel in my room. God loves you sooooooooooooooooooo much! Just reach out to God and grab His hand. He WANTS to save you, you just have to let Him. God bless you. I love you.
@@princessdarkness66 From what I heard is that all the other gods ( specially his mom ) just left him alone in a corner because he was a bratt and no one wanted to be around him. That corner is our universe.
@@uberkirbeeh7954 that reminds me of a creepypasta that I heard not too long ago, where this girl dies and ends up in what's left of eden and is saved by the first wife of Adam before Eve. She's told the "real" story of how god is a narcissistic and misogynistic jerk whereas his brothers were kind, loving gods.
Yep although the long answer from theists also involves a lot of dancing about, waving hands and general mental gymnastics which tend to result in...my book says he is good and perfectly loving.🤦
The heaven and eternal life idea is horrifyingly torturous agony for my mind. The fact that my conscious life will reach natural demise and everyday i survive takes me closer to death comforts me.
@@TimtheEnchanter25 Interesting thought, but can you clarify. How is suffering eternally less terrifying then just not being conscious to feel anything? Btw i believe that our matter will live eternally, our smallest parts will become something else, but the consciousness will not remain atleast i hope not.
To me the problem with God is he's too self indulging and self celebrating. He asks everyone to love and praise him more than anything else and constantly. Even in Heaven Angels and humans sing his praise non stop. That seems pretty insane to me. A Infinite being does not nor would care to create life forms that praise him endlessly all the time. Not to mention being an all wise and knowing being yet getting mad and showing human emotions over things he as God was aware of forever before it happened as he knows all things. The fact he gets actively mad over it proves alone he's not whom he claims to be
Yeah Christians often mock polytheistic religions for being “simple” and “not reflective of reality,” but like, they make a heck of a lot more sense than any hypothesis about an omnibenevolent, omnipotent singular god
I'm a Christian and I would like to provide my thoughts on this video: I completely agree that the theodicies can be argued for a good God or a bad God. However, as pointed out in the introduction, they are primarily used to defend against the Atheist argument of the Problem of Evil, which is specifically targeted against a good God. This means that if, on the contrary, most religions happen to believe in an evil God, then the Atheist argument would simply become the Problem of Good. To me, this neither supports nor undermines either side of the argument, because Christians and Atheists alike make arguments on the basis that God is good, simply because most existing religions assume a good God. In this video, no conclusions were drafted that undermines these theodicies. By this I mean that they can be reasonably considered as true, whether applied to a good or bad God. This means that the possibility of God, whether good or bad, is still open to question. Thus as I see it, this cannot be used to disprove (or prove) the existence of God, whether religions claim that he is good or bad. I think that Atheists often believe that Christians don't question the things they believe in. I just wanted to share that some of us do think logically and are critical about what we believe. Feel free to leave comments below as there can definitely be flaws in my argument.
I feel that this video was a pretty weak argument trying to justify the "The Evil God Hypothesis". Especially the part "The problem of good" starting at 7:38. Sure, he can flip around the Theodicies like he did, but those flipped Theodicies doesn't have any bases on reality.
@Nuby I'm unsure if I understood you correctly, so please correct me if I misunderstood what you said. By the "other side", do you mean the belief that God is evil? And that there's more data to support an evil god than a good one? If so, I would disagree. My evidence comes from the reliability and content of religious texts (which of course I know does nothing to convince an atheist). But I would like to see where you are coming from. As for the "basis of the theodicy", I believe I have already explained where I think they come from. The theodicies are based on the Problem of Evil, which is based on the religious belief that God is good, which itself is based on reliability and content of religious texts. So IMO the bottom line also ends up being the reliability and content of religious texts. When I read the Bible, I question and analyze what it is saying and judge for myself whether it is trustworthy. In fact, Paul tells us to do so (1 Corinthians 10:15).
@Nuby I assume 'God is good' because it is written in the Bible. However, if we ignore the Bible, I agree that beginning from the 'God is evil' hypothesis we also arrive at a logically coherent conclusion. However, consider a world where the Bible says that God is evil instead. Then Atheists in that world would simply point out why Christians assume that God is evil when it is also logically coherent for him to be good. So in either world Atheists are unhappy, so it adds nothing to question why we assume one or the other. He is either good or bad, but he just so happens to be good in this particular world (I do not think it is arbitrary but we shall save the discussion). Christians do not all agree on the age of the earth. I, for one, do not prescribe to say that the earth is only a thousand years old. I do not think it is stated anywhere in the Bible. If Christians are making these statements, they probably based them off genealogies. But there may be time skips between generations in the Bible, so I do not think these estimates are necessarily accurate. On the other hand, I don't think that science can determine the age of the earth to a high degree of accuracy either, because the numbers these tests give are unverifiable. Normal lab experiments can be repeated and will produce the same results every time, but estimates about the age of the earth cannot be proven, because the history of the universe cannot be repeated in a controlled environment. Same thing can be said of the theory of evolution. Therefore I am skeptical of such proofs and stick to verifiable truths, which are typically philosophical and can be reasoned out. Inconsistencies in the Bible can typically be explained as a misunderstanding of doctrine. In the Bible, God is described not only as loving, but also just and holy, and people often miss these attributes of God and focus on just love. Here is one explanation: It is required for God to give us free will because when God created us, his purpose for us was to love him, and it is not love if it is not chosen by us. Thus, originally, free will was not purposed for evil. But because of the fall, all humans now do evil things, and thus they deserve punishment. In fact, we have no excuse because we know what we do is evil. But because God loves us, he extends an invitation for us through Jesus to return to him even though we are evil and he is holy and good. Theoretically, for God to be just and holy, those deserving of punishment (i.e. all humankind because we all do bad things) should die. However, because God is loving, those who turn away from evil and back to him will be saved. It would be just as clever to argue that God is unjust because even sinners are saved, as to argue that God is unloving because even people that God love are punished. The scenario posed in the Bible is really the only scenario when God can be both equally just and loving. People living in poverty and babies dying is insufficient proof for an evil god, because as stated in the video, therein arises the Problem of Good (starting from 7:00), which questions why there are people living in luxury if God is evil. So if you argue that God is evil you might as well argue that God is good. Well I am unsure about your last concern. I personally think it is due to the sin that is in this world and in us. As I described earlier, God is holy, so he cannot be with sin. I think this is the reason why he does not come to us. But that does not mean he has given up on us, as he sent his son to redeem us. Well I hope this gives you a good perspective of how Christians think and why the "Does God exist?" debate is still ongoing when it seems that the Bible is incoherent at first glance.
There is no chosen one. You must chose yourself. You must understand god is only ever above you. And your purpose is to spread kindness. Emotions are there to be felt. But never be a slanderer because of them. If your questioning if god is evil. You’re only questioning yourself and your doubt.
Have you ever heard the Qur’an talking about Jesus and his mother, peace be upon a translator. Did you know that Jesus and his mother mentioned the Qur’an 25 times? Listen to me the linkua-cam.com/video/Tm2hW3p9QaYD/v-deo.htmlo you have a question you want to know about Islam? We answer your question within the linkwww.faithchat.com. م
But...I love pineapple pizza! Jokes aside this is a really good video, I hadn't thought of the problem of evil in this way but the argument is pretty solid. I really enjoy your videos in general, you have such a calm and rational way of explaining things. I wish more people could discuss topics like these calmly like you do.
Maybe this is a dumb take but my thoughts on this is that if good is all loving and all powerful, why did he make it so that we need a reference point of what evil is to appreciate good. Why didn't he just make it... not so? Just make us capable of understanding good without evil actually existing. I know it doesn't make sense, but if god is omnipotent, surely he can decide what makes sense when he creates a world
I am not a believer anymore (for a few years already), but I still go to church, because I help my friend with a kids choir (fun fact is that she is an atheist as well). And I am very often surprised how priests or bishops use fear in people so often and so much. And I am even more surprised that I couldn't see it before. There will be a counting of population in our country and our local bishop has written a letter about it. So it was read last sunday and I was so surprised how people can be ok with it. He literally stated- "Religion is optional and it is up to you to choose. But remember that if you were baptised, you are a christian for ever and you should count yourself as one. And if you do not, remember that Jesus will not be on your side after your death as well and he will not let you into heaven." I can't handle this amount of fearmongering and manipulation... it's just disgusting to me even to hear it, not to mention thinking about it and believing it. I dunno why people can't see this. It's terrible. Now imagine that you are baptised, but you stop believing. I never chose to be a christian and I never wanted it... I was brainwashed and fed crap since my childhood, but I abandoned it simply because I do not agree. And that should be the reason for which a "all-loving, all-mighty, all-good" god will punish me and sends me to hell to eternally suffer, even if I am a good person? No, thank you. How can you give free will to people and then tell them that they can or do not have to believe, but then if they don't, they will suffer? That's like a SAW movie... To wrap it up. One part of Bible says something like "All good people will reach heaven" (at least in our translation), but in the other part there is "If you don't believe, you will eternally suffer". So which one of this? One states- all you need is being good; and the other- being a good person is not enough. Ooof... I'm done with this...
@@elderyear I don't know the numbers from my head... Would you be surprised if I said that I have no idea which exact verse it is, since when they read it in church, they don't read the verse, only the book. And if you read to yourself and you are a normal person, you don't pay attention to numbers next to the text. If you want to quote me on that, feel free to. Idc. It also might be different in different languages. English is not my mother language. Maybe it was Colossians or Romans, not sure. But in our language the exact translation would be "the righteous people reach heaven", but we have it changed into something like "all the good people" in our language.
@@Darkry I’m just curious because you’d think it would be a good counter argument to someone arguing the whole John 3:16 thing about needing to accept Jesus to be saved. I suspect your church’s translation takes some liberties, because a verse that states you don’t need to believe in god to go to heaven would be used by every single counter-apologist, all the time.
@@elderyear I don't want to counter Christians with their own book... Cuz some say that it's supposed to be taken literally, others say that it's only a metaphor. And they use Bible against you if you even give a hint that you read it. It's funny- you either can't understand, since you haven't read it, or you are a believer, since you did read it (based on logic of most I met)...
In my opinion, I believe that the Illuminati exists and they purposely created everyone to have different religions so that we could all fight and have wars over it.
Im a Christian and working on figuring out my biggest questions that i have. There's a lot of holes that i had no idea about. For argument sake. What if God is neither evil or good. But just like us. We make mistakes that are bad. But we also are good sometimes. We are made in his image after all. Just a hypothesis.
A brilliant proposal being bought forward to the table their mate well done. Currently, I am a Christian however more and more every day I do wondering if am having madness episodes. The more I don't believe in God the better I feel about everything.
Why would God put people through some of the worst human experiences ever? Makes no sense how some on earth have such terrible lives while a "All loving" God is watching over it.
A good god would have let pi = 3 and g = 10
WHAT’S GOING ON SMART PEOPLE
Seeing you comment here is a welcome surprise and I totally agree with your argument
And G=7.0×10^-11
g = 10 if you redefine m or s
and there is no reality where pi = 3
@@05772-i G = 1, c = 1
the "evil is required for good" argument always confuses me because an all-powerful being would be able to change the rules so it's not required
What makes you think a divine principle would be Sentient???
@@TheLastOutlaw-KTS i don't, i'm just responding to others' claims
@@undgcat6767 ok
Catholicism/Christianity are two of the most inconsistent religions ever, that's why it's so obvious the Bible it's just a bunch of men making rules for Israel. And well men, specially the uneducated entitled ones aren't specially good people, and the fact that the Bible gives specific rules on how to treat "your slaves" but not on how to actually be a good person, tells you everything you need to know about such a "holy" book.
I'm no atheist, I do believe in god, it's just that the way the Christians portrayed him it's just so wrong. I bet my life God doesn't care at all if we choose to study philosophy from the Marcus Aurelius or the Buddha; is people that get mad.
I don't think God is an intolerant hateful deity, like the one portrayed in the Bible. I read the Bible uncountable times, due to my very strict Christian parents. Since I graduated from high school I never picked up my bible, ever, until this year when I read some wonderful analysis about the biblical stories, yet not much has changed, there's still a lot of inconsistencies, and if I perceived so much hate during my childhood, now that I'm an adult I can confirm that this book is anything but the word of a loving God.
Lets say evil does not exist. Meaning.. nobody gets sick, nobody steals, nobody has even malevolent thoughts. So humans are by nature flawless and by nature can't go wrong or right, they are programmed to always to the thing that God wills. Since there is no other choice than doing what God wills, there relatively is no good or wrong. Good or evil only are relative to each other. If one doesn't exist, the other doesn't exist, its just one state.
Compare it with electric charge. In reality there are negative and positive charges (Electrons, Positrons). And we can only assign them attributes because we know their opppsite. But if the positron didn't exist, we could not say that the electron is "negative", it would just be seen as "neutral", cause there is no counterpart.
So your proposition that God would change the rules and eradicate all evil could work, but then (as mentioned above) good would not exist either. Humans would just be programmed puppets to do what God wills, there would not exist such a thing as good or evil. The sole existence of free will and choice on disobeying or obeying God's will, creates good or evil.
"Some evils are necessary to obtain a higher order good." An omnipotent God would be able to create a universe in which higher order good could exist without evil.
Exactly.
Thats what ive been saying. If its omnipotent, then this universe clearly isnt the best it could do
This is part of the reason why I disagree when Theists try and solve the Omnipotence Paradox by arguing that God is only able to do anything that is logically possible, (no square circles, etc.) because that is a limit on his power and therefore contradicts the entire meaning of omnipotence. To be truly all powerful you wouldn't be bound within the limits of even logic itself.
It's also a bad justification because such "higher order" goods would be rendered *obsolete* without evil. There is no need for bravery if there is nothing to ever fear. There is no need for charity if no one ever lacks in what they need.
Not to mention this is literally what Heaven is supposed to be, so why does evil need to exist here on Earth to allow the existence of higher order goods and not in Heaven?
"An omnipotent God would be able to create a universe in which a good that requires an evil to exist could exist without evil."
wow
When I look around at what is happening in the world, I really only see 3 possibilities:
-He's a cruel sadist
-or he doesn't give a shit
-or he just doesn't exist!
-or maybe he simply was not a god and never been, but theology purposely confused us with this concept of god.
@@TheGianluman
That was also my last point ... and the only logical one.
I have another one:
- This god is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent but instead there are multiple gods with varying views on morality like in the old religions. Because this worldview brings less than half of the problems the Christian worldview brings.
I think the laws of physics are the closest thing we have to god
His second point was bad.the suffering he said that helped us improved.
Also what about suffering that helps us?why would an evil God allow us to suffer to make us stronger and more passionate about things?
You're wrong of course. My God is good, he just went out to buy a packet of cigarettes 2000 years ago and will be right back.
🤤Funny what you wrote
He let satan take over and want to see how satan do and made a scary movie of it to annoy us here on Earth..welcome to Earth 🤔
@@DominicvH uhm Satan rules nothing
@@DominicvH Satan took over? Well isn't that a lie lol
@@kudzaiedziwa6433 He is the god of this world, like having a deal with God..see who he can Mislead..God is testing us if we really love him.. Those who endures to the end will get a crown as it is written..kind of sport 🤔
@@DominicvH Nah...it's more like God enjoys seeing us suffer. The "reward" thing is like a used car salesman promise.
A good god wouldn't try to pass for an evil god, but an evil god would try to seem good.
They say he made us in his image, maybe he's just as conflicted as we are.
I'm not religious, but if there is a God it seems more likely to me that he's the sort that would at least try to do good, but maybe he's not all powerful like the religious say he is.
Religious people would dismiss it as magical thinking to suggest that our actions have a direct connection to God's ability to do good, but maybe the reason bad stuff happens so often is because we aren't doing enough to stop it and maybe it's not God's fault.
As an atheist, I know that's pragmatically the same as there not being a God, I just wonder why the idea is so unpopular in religion.
Is it as simple as the fact that a God who's anything less than omnipotent can lose a fight to somebody else's God?
I'd rather worship a God that could admit to his flaws than one that forces us to justify evil as part of his plan.
How about if it's a dream in someone's head? And that someone is where we all live?
life has far more unsatisfactory moments than satisfactory. if a god exists i liken him to that commercial where the fisherman is messing with a person using a dollar bill(fleeting good moments) on a fishing line.
@@Whispers_of_God-67 H.P Lovecraft moment
@@Whispers_of_God-67 then let the hunt begin.
Honestly, if God exists, I would be more convinced that he's evil or malicious than if he were good.
I think that's one of the only ways you could logically justify the lack of evidence. He deliberately keeps evidence of his existence out of the universe, so we don't have a reason for the suffering; we just suffer. Nothing confirmed to rally against, no confirmed common enemy causing a sense of unity. It's really one of the only things that works, isn't it? That said I don't believe it, a lack of evidence is a lack of evidence, but damn it makes some level of sense if you squint a bit.
or he just doesn't care.
@@i_am_anxious02I think besides god being utterly evil (or atleast having ill intentions such us being an experiment made in a lab), the other ways that makes sense to me assuming that god is an intelligible being is that he a) He is unaware of our existence b) He is aware of us but doesnt care c) He is aware of us and does care but is unable to intervene in our lifes
@@XEveryoneLovesEmilyX
Alan Moore's Watchmen was unironically the best character study of a truly powerful God, using his character Dr Manhattan. Even if this God spent time as a person on this planet (like Jesus) it wouldn't matter, Alan Moore argues. Because with Dr Manhattan who essentially was born and lived on earth as a petty human, his transformation into a higher being removed his care even for those he used to have attachment to. What makes the classical god even worse is that he wasn't even born into humanity. He was born completely alien to it.
To quote Dr Manhattan himself: "I am tired of earth. I'm tired of the tangle of human lives"
I mean, wouldn't you be? It's no fun playing Sims without being malicious 😂
Honestly
This evil god seems far more believable than a good god.
True, this terrible world feels like some experiment
You guys might find Gnosticism interesting. It posits that we live in a world under the domain of a lesser God, and that the greater God is largely unknowable. It's based on Platoism to a degree. The Monad, that is, the higher God, is a lot more like the Tao. A sort of pervasive, all encompassing thing that exists in all things. A sort of panentheism.
But the lower god is confined to the material plane, being ignorant and possibly evil. You don't have to believe it to find it interesting. It just shows that even in the earliest days of Christianity, there were people questioning the narrative.
@@Alias79555soo rare to find someone else reference the gnostics. Blew my wind when I heard about alternate versions of “christianity”. Of course the, all loving, orthodoxy made quick work of them, and others… but mention any of this to Christian’s and they’ll laugh and claim “you don’t know what you’re talking about”.
@@playboyfan001 you don’t know what you are talking about
@@SFCDVlol
It sure is annoying when people always assume the creator is a loving creator and doesn't assume an evil creator.
What do you mean “evil creator”?
@@jimherald4069 have you watched the video?
@@randomblueguy just finished.
I had the same question. What definition are we using for evil?
@@jimherald4069 That which hinders the flourishing of our species. I know it’s an ultimately subjective definition, but it would be appropriate assuming a personal god.
Turns out me and satan are the same person
"Put pineapple on pizza"
We did it boys religion is no more
That's gonna be my favorite argument from now on.
"If God is perfectly good and omnipotent, why does he allow pineapple pizza?"
As a proud pineapple-pizza eater, I have to disagree xD
@@mayaour2591 im calling the italian goverment
#TeamPineapplePizza #ImPartItalian
@@mayaour2591 👌🤜🤛
Although I am perfectly happy with the recent shift of focus this channel has taken- it is always a treat to see Alex give us a video about God and religion!
Couldn't agree more!
@Cave Johnson Did you even read the comment you're replying to? A.J. said he's perfectly happy with the content shift. He is clearly not attacking veganism with his comment making your reply seem like an unjustified attack riddled with assumptions. Assumptions are the antithesis of skepticism and it is disheartening to see followers of "cosmicSKEPTIC" acting in this manner. A lot of Alex's subscribers found his channel from his religious debunking videos and followed his channel specifically for this content. This doesn't mean that they don't appreciate his videos on veganism, rather that they especially like his videos on religion. This is what I think A.J. was attempting to convey.
@Cave Johnson why does it ruin your "dinner"?
@Cave Johnson That’s precisely how i interpreted your comment. This once again shows that comment sections are not particularly good at conveying sarcasm/intention. As i was reading it, the alternative interpretation was you being actually honest and voicing out the cognitive dissonance that many (maybe most?) omnivores feel when the morals of their food choices are called out. In any case, understanding and adopting veganism is _in my limited experience_ more of a process than an instant choice, just like abandoing beliefs in supernatural entities seems to be for most people. In both cases it is a process. For some it is a painful one; for some, it is not.
@Cave Johnson Those vegan videos aren't challenging at all. But of course you will dismiss the fact that your description of the opposition doesn't match up because of your already existing inclination. See how silly that is?
Most of the world is not living in a good situation... most of the world is suffering.
In your point of view… did you see how it is in other worlds?
@@1mol831 most are worse. Groups can sort and make a good world or two out of the mess.... In the multiverse there is multiple universes and they each have a multi dimensional field with their own dimensions......
everyone suffers just on different levels
I just hate that innocent children suffer from many things that they don't deserve and they don't get any help, does god not care about them just because someone took a damn fruit from a tree?
Answer: Clearly not because God does not exist
Same man
I think the answer to your question is that God does care about innocent children, similar to how he cares for all people. Taking fruit from the tree just happens to be the first case of what 99.99% of humans do: which is violate objective moral truths. If you think about it, so many forms of suffering result from the lengthy human history of doing wrong, and failing to do right. Even the sorts of suffering we don’t usually attribute fault to other people for, since it’s conceivable that these kinds of things could have been overcome had humans not wasted so much time and effort being against one another. Why doesn’t God just make humans not able to be evil, if this would basically end all suffering? A possible explanation is then we would be without free will, and probably live like a tree or plant, existing as life, but with no ability to be our unique and interesting selves.
By taking the fruit Eve and Adam put themselves in a different reality -- harsh and materialistic, where suffering exists for every living creature regardless of age or presumed innocence. Adam and Eve switched to this new reality and everybody who is born to them belongs to it. These are just the attributes of the world into which they decided to go in order to know “good and evil”. Knowledge is a hard thing.
That story along with the entire bible is bs
Everyone conceived suffers and dies.
God knew everything that was gonna happen and still created us, he has all the power and control in the world and watches us suffer.
@t tuber If he's not almighty then why's he a god? Why do you religious ones follow them?
@t tuber your first comment implies that.
I suffer greatly at work, but then I remember that it doesn't last forever, I go home and relax and am thankful for the difficulties I experience to toughen me up a little bit and to give me some first hand knowledge of challenges. The more I do it, the more I get a little better for it. My heart gets weary at times, but I have no reason to despair, only count my blessings.
Unlike you I know God true nature. God can be good and evil at the same time. He created the universe just entrainment himself because he was bored. We are an extention of God's nature, we have free will like him. But he can influence us to do sometimes what he wants us to do good or evil. And when we die, what's really happening is that God make us reincarnated in a new life just to his eternal entrainment. It will never and, you're happiness and your pain will never and. There is heaven or hell. We just make a reincarnation to another human life. That's the truth that God reveals to me. Now you know the all truth.
@@tonydixon25
??????????
Saying
"there has to be evil, otherwise there would be no good"
is like saying
"there has to be cancer, otherwise there would be no chemotherapy".
Wouldn't it be better if there was _neither?_
Technically I'm not siding with the religious argument, but that comparison sort of lacks. The existence of darkness is necessary otherwise there would be no darkness. Chemotherapy isnt an absolute or a solution or a counter to cancer.
@@iru_es Good isn't an absolute or solution to evil, either...
@@JMUDoc In what equation? Theyre essentially the same except if you add them they decrease eachother. They are absolutes alone but when compared they contrast. Realize that an absolute good and an absolute bad is essentially the same in extremities but not in terms of functionality and the fact that they contrast
@Alex Sandelin Without clicking, no it's not.
@Alex Sandelin According the the Bible assembled by the Romans? Who then told you it was Gods definitive word? And youtube video's proves it?
If you had been born in Saudi Arabia you would be singing the praises of Muhammad and Allah.
There's this concept taught by one of histories greatest avatars about seeking and knocking. I highly recommend it.
The more I see of cancer, disease,war,suffering,and then point out that God himself tried to wipe away all humanity with a great flood. Then yes the more I do believe he is truly EVIL 😱
You're not using your brain here.
Okay so you're using and applying God does exist.
What is God then if he is evil?
Still the creator,still the omni-everything.
Then how can you say God is evil for killing or destroying if He is the Creator?
You see you fail to understand the concept of what is right and what is wrong.And you didn't even explain the chapter properly about the reason for the flood.
God is absolutely evil. He has tricked many into thinking He’s not evil. He’s a trickster.
@@khrawbryan So might makes right?
Thats a very fragile position to take and many will raise eyebrows at you. If he came down to you and told you to start mυrdering people because its a good thing that must be done, would you do it? A really easy way to find the psychοs.
@@Atlas718 Frame your question properly about God coming and saying kill someone cause it's a good thing again cause there's a flaw in your statement if you want me to geniunely answer.
Also according to you what is right and what is wrong?
@@khrawbryan Its a simple question, would you or would you not.
But if you want a more detailed explanation at what I am getting at, is morally independent of God? Is morality above God, something he cannot tamper with and change. If the answer is yes, then such a command is ludicrous. If the answer is no, and God determines what is good, then God would have the power to tell you that command is good.
The aim here is to see what you think of this. I just want to understand if you think might makes right, nothing more than understanding what kind of a person you are, I am not here to have a hardcore debate. If someone told me that mυrder is good because God told them it is, then thats all I need. That would be their moral foundation and I can react to that response accordingly.
You can dodge the question, if you do I wouldn't require an answer because I would've gotten it already and will be sure to keep my distance.
I've met such people in the real world. and their answers really say alot about them. We as humanity have already seen instances of people doing heinοus acts in the name of Gοd and those criminals saying that what they did was the will of God. Ultimately what it really shows to me is that their mοral fοundation is very unstable and something our society should be wary of.
Alex, I’m a Christian, and I just wanted to thank you for providing challenges towards my worldview. It’s always a delight to watch your videos that leave me with a big question that I can think about and have fun trying to figure out all day. Again, truly a pleasure. Thank you. Keep it up (:
Same here =D
Kudos to you both for taking on the challenges and thinking about this stuff! It's pretty great to reflect and... either affirm the validity of a belief, or, perhaps even more rewarding, to find a new one!
@Anarcho Veganism name and present one such position ("steel man" it), and then show your disproof. I suspect you'll find it difficult, at least to be convincing.
@Anarcho Veganism And what are those positions?
@John E. Hofmann Hello. I have something important to tell you:
The bible makes it clear that God is holy. This holy God holds a perfect moral standard. Sadly, we have all fallen way short of that standard(Romans 3:23). The penalty for sin/imperfection is Hell(Revelation 21:8).
Thankfully the bible also says that God is rich in mercy and grace. That is why He sent His perfect Son to die on a cross to save us from our sin. You and I broke God's law but Jesus paid our fine. Then Jesus rose from the dead, 3 day later, thus defeating death!
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. But whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them." John 3:36
My philosophy teacher was once talking about the idea of evil geniuses, and I decided to ask if it was possible that God could be an evil genius (because the way he was talking, it seemed like he was dancing around the topic). He told me that I shouldn't ask that because it might "offend other people".
He is a evil genius, If you accepted God is all knowing and all powerful(Isaiah 46:10 Psalm 139:1-6) you just acknowledge that God could have created a universe where Satan didn’t rebel, Adam and Eve didn’t disobey, And TONS OF BILLIONS didn’t have to be killed and condemned into hell. Meaning he knew exactly what he was doing when creating Satan, he knew Adam and Eve would disobey and fail, he knew BILLIONS would be killed and condemned to hell.
The definition of good is something of which we can all approve, or some approve, but also, good isn’t just something that’s positive, it can also be a state of being, say, I grow an apple tree and the tree bears fruit, and I eat that apple and it tastes good, it doesn’t have to be sweet, although it would make it taste good, so long as it’s left uncorrupted from bugs or mold, the apple is good, it’s in a good state of being. But if decay or bugs cause the apple to rot, it no longer is good, firstly, because it won’t taste good, but most importantly, because it’s state of being has been corrupted, GOD is good, because HE both gives life its joys and secondly because the things HE created and HIMSELF are what is normal, when something distorts GODs creation, it’s no longer good, for its now abnormal, but since GOD is HIMSELF, that is HIS good, not that HE is limited by this small definition, but something is only evil if it distorts what is normal or in GODs will, now, just because something is deformed doesn’t mean that it no longer is good in itself, it’s abnormalities are not good, but the being for which it was made to be, despite the distortion it may have, still would make it good.
Have you ever considered other definitions of God? Like you think of him as a robot maker, but what if he was the One we're all in? Like, what if he was the Mind and we're some type of neurons; be it conscious ones? And if he was dreaming, then this would explain all the lunacy we're living in, right?
@juanit0tackit0tackito2
I like the wit in your reasoning but God still drowned every but 2 of each of all the animals on earth bcuz the humans and nephilim we're running amok.
it wasn't the animals that were responsible but they were drowned anyway and for nothing because the righteous who were saved immediately behaved wickedly in God's according to God's law... Noah's sons
and humanity went on to be wicked in soddom and gomorrah and the family he saved immediately turned to incest.
is that God being in a state of goodness?
further, regarding the last 2 paragraphs, was God omniscient in not foreseeing their wicked acts?
and is not selectively removing the wicked instead of drowning countless blameless animals omnipotent?
❤️🩹 ✌🏼
@@amirpride8702even if Satan decided not to betray God but another angel could have in his stead and besides we still always had the option to anyways, so you can't blame satan for our mistake like if a husband had the choice to cheat his wife and even if his mistress wasn't there the are many other women and the husband could have just divorced for any reason at all
"Some evils are necessary to obtain a higher order good"
"Some goods are necessary to obtain a higher order of evil"
Crazy how that is still valid. This video is great and terrible all at the same time. Great job bro
Crazy how those arguments are functionally identical and have the same explanatory power when explaining the condition of our world...
Never even thought about it this before 😅
This was the plot of an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents in the 50s. A mobster wanted to kill someone, but she was so depressed and guilty she welcomed death. So he gives her everything she wants, maximizes her happiness, and then shoots her.
Does it though?
@@BeauMeztli ja
Beastiliality, incest, in-humane torture, yup a maximally evil God doesn’t exist otherwise everytime the sun rose everyone would be in excruciating agonizing pain, but hey if you think your logic works for a maximally evil god go ahead
I've always wondered if God is indeed evil. Especially after reading the Old Testament. It's an interesting idea.
The anime "Berserk" is a very philosophical series that features a God that is evil. It's literally called "The Idea of Evil."
What if god of the Old Testament is indeed not a god, but we've been confusing that individual with the idea of god?
@Visitor Sin We know nothing about a possible real god. No one knows if an intelligent designer exists or not.
In any case I don't think he would intervene in any of his creation's business.
What I am trying to ask is: what if the whole compendium of abrahamic religions is based on chronicles concerning the encounter of humanity with individuals that only later have been mistaken as gods, but in reality they were simply individuals with a better technology and a greater knowledge?
It's a controversial subject, but it's quite plausible.
@@TheGianluman i think it's more plausible to think these beings are fictional than it is for them to be real but somehow have a higher level of technology than the others and then be mistaken for gods,
but its certainly an interesting idea
@@TheGianluman A creator doesnt necessarily mean a god. Interesting idea
El is good yahweh is evil and Jesus is of El and yhwh is Lucifer and this is for free will.
"Is your god good?"
"Yes."
"Define "good"."
"That which is consistent with my god's nature."
"So, when you say your god is good, you're saying nothing more than that he's consistent with his own nature.
Everything is consistent with its own nature - you win the Tautology of the Year Award for 2020."
@Nathan Desta baby don't hurt me
I'll concede that it it a tautology; but does that mean it's false? Also what is your definition of "good"?
@Jamie Klassen How do you know those actions weren't good?
@@mandooakes8509 Tautologies are always true, they just don't impart any information - what's the point of telling me that one's god is consistent with his own nature? Even if he/she exists, that is a given.
Also, if the existence of goodness is intended to argue towards the existence of the god, defining "good" in terms of that god's nature is to beg the question.
IMO, good = that which intends to increase justified wellbeing and/or reduce unjustified harm.
@Nathan Desta Love is an emotion - is your god an emotion?
If God created all things with full knowledge of their intentions before their creation, then God knowingly and willingly created lucifer, and ultimately evil.
exactly!! idk how some people just can’t grasp that
@M Hitchens famously said, of course you have free will, you have no choice not to. A true free will could turn off its free will and be subservient. But this is not possible. Inner thoughts can not be controlled, even if the individual deeply and truly wishes that they would be.
@M But aren't we all operating according to God's plan? So doesn't God know already what we're going to choose? Where's the choice if it's already decided by God?
@M Then why condem all of humanity for the actions of innocents?
They literally couldn´t distinguish good from bad, even if God commanded to never eat the fruit, how could they knew it was right to obey? They didn´t knew it was bad to be like God, and distinguish good from evil because they *didn´t knew* any of those concepts.
If he already knew they would condem humanity and cause horrible attrocities across history, and never returning to the same relationship with him, then why not change that? If he is omnipotent, then why he couldn´t change this vital event for us?
@M but if he knows our intentions before doing something is that really free will? Also, what about "The Plan" that he has, and to what extent is it planned? If he plans our whole lives is that free will? Do we HAVE to go with this "plan"?
Yo I went Vegan Alex dont you dare come after my pineapple now
Vegan is evil but free will allows you to hate all life because obvs you can't have life without death and to vegans that's evil and the answer is no life of course you would have to kill people like kid's in children's homes and hospices all suffer more than farm animals that live in luxury compared to some people so veganisum can only end with all life gone forever but I'm sure you have good intentions deep down just misinformed
@@davidevans3223 That’s the least coherent string of words I’ve ever read
@@megafilmshow really that's quite good for me lol
@Shaun Welch lol no it's a terrible diet for health since this is a new vegan u think they should do some research vagens are pale age fast and brain's deteriorate fast look at you you can't even have a civil discussion you say I'm wrong like you get to define whats right and wrong you don't wild animals would replace farm animals if we stopped farming they are always hungry or hunted full of parasites no vets...so happy farm animals is the morale high ground you don't have to agree society defines what's morale and agrees with me since many people cant go vegan and 80% of vegans quit many for health reasons you'll always be a tiny misinformed minority that's morally wrong.......but your logic is to end suffering to be morale why not ban car's they kill animal's and people every day but we as a society decided that is worth the cost for the luxury of car's...so you'll always be wrong it's just life
@@davidevans3223 You’re an undercover vegan trying to make meat eaters look crazy aren’t you?
If there’s one, it mus be SADISTIC. Otherwise, how to explain the horror in the world? There’s a WAY more evil in humanity than good. You can tell.
Aren’t our brains designed to detect danger? Aka horror. Meaning the brain jumps to bad endings to keep us alive. So most of us are just seeing the negative things about the world
Maybe because we're living in a dream - a nightmare. Things get like this in dreams: they can get nonsensical.
@SupremeAtheist can you explain how there is significantly more evil than good as that is just a matter of perspective and besides I find it unreasonable to blame a god for our choices, not his or Satan's or anyone's but ours so before you say god should stop all evil, you have to believe in free will and the fact we cause evil in order to put to frame evil and as for natural disasters, also our fault for renouncing God and we allow us to be prideful and rely on our own instead of God's aif and protect in the garden so we should own responsibility for our evils individually and as a species
@@lbozo8268 thousands of things aren’t free will: natural disasters, cancer, KIDS dying from cancer, the fact that we die isn’t free will it’s determined, watching our loved ones die, and so much more
Parasite bees. Animals that need protein to survive. Even I, would I be omnipotent, could create world with much less suffering without affecting theology itself; just make all animals vegan, or able to get (enough) energy from sunlight. Or not need food at all. Many animals eat others alive, and some don't mind doing the same for humans. And these animals were created by supposedly all-loving God. Also, humans crave protein from animals (because we're animals too), so it is guaranteed suffering even if we never stole anything, wouldn't wage wars and never commit adultery
So simple yet so powerful. I'm a deistic pantheist and I've always been sure that if a god existed (or some cause conscious in some inhuman way) it would be neither good nor evil, and this perfectly illustrated my point of view.
It would simply be. And the things we think are good and evil are nothing in the sense of a creator.
I think it's just a deist. A Pantheist believes God is everywhere and also is involved in the day to day goings on with humans.
HOW could some conscious being/intelligence that acts in the universe be neither good nor bad at all? AND: Why not both, instead?
@@steadycreeping8508 Huh??
@@stephendevore because then it is not perfect, there is no perfection, WE are the gods
The bible even says "God Created Evil" how is that a perfect good God
Actually it said god created the light and the dark not evil.
@@anonymousnever8627 God literally said himself, that he created good as well as evil.
@@victoriaosawaru6121 Isaiah 45:7
King James Version
7 I form the light, and create darkness
@@anonymousnever8627 my argument still stands, as light and darkness could be used as metaphors for good and evil. Same thing, different wordings
@@victoriaosawaru6121 I guess your right in retrospect my argument was pretty stupid. Have a nice day and good luck on your endeavors.
That shot at pineapple pizza was just uncalled for.
yet justifiable...
heretic!
To hell with you heathen.
@@mr.p215 y e s
It's not your fault your taste buds are faulty little bio-miscreants born of obsolete genetics that would have been weeded out in a harsher world, so don't take that shot (or this one) personally. ;3
When I was christian, I always pictured God as neither good nor evil, being maximally lawful neutral, allowing both good and evil to balance each other, while focusing on keeping the universe from imploding.
Kind of a sucky god that can't build a universe that he have to run around and fix up with gaffa tape and paint.
I have never heard this evil god problem from anyone else, people always told me I was crazy for thinking that. Turns out now I discover the existence of this video and all said in it corresponding a thought I've had since I was a kid.
The evil God problem isn't really a problem though. Read the old testament and you will see God is the epitome of evil. So of course the world would be full of evil if the God of the Bible created it, he is self-acknowledged to be incredible cruel and merciless.
@@arentol7 The epitome of evil when when he judges evil?Nice
Perfect Nice :)
I knew this as a kid I always listened to the pastor and a lot of things I couldn’t wrap my head around for one action I can be sent to hell but keep being good cos he might forgive you and you’ll only find out once you’re dead I had a hard time thinking my family could be split apart and ever since I’ve taught of killed god “yaldabaoth”
The gnostics believe that God is an evil entity that, in truth, is what christians call the devil that trapped us in this plane of existence that turns out to be "hell."
The definition of good is something of which we can all approve, or some approve, but also, good isn’t just something that’s positive, it can also be a state of being, say, I grow an apple tree and the tree bears fruit, and I eat that apple and it tastes good, it doesn’t have to be sweet, although it would make it taste good, so long as it’s left uncorrupted from bugs or mold, the apple is good, it’s in a good state of being. But if decay or bugs cause the apple to rot, it no longer is good, firstly, because it won’t taste good, but most importantly, because it’s state of being has been corrupted, GOD is good, because HE both gives life its joys and secondly because the things HE created and HIMSELF are what is normal, when something distorts GODs creation, it’s no longer good, for its now abnormal, but since GOD is HIMSELF, that is HIS good, not that HE is limited by this small definition, but something is only evil if it distorts what is normal or in GODs will, now, just because something is deformed doesn’t mean that it no longer is good in itself, it’s abnormalities are not good, but the being for which it was made to be, despite the distortion it may have, still would make it good.
Additionally,
Theists also respond that “God has a bigger plan” i.e. an reason for allowing evil that is beyond our comprehension
But this does also work in reverse for the Evil God
Which even seems more likely if you ask me... Just look at where this world is heading.
Yeah, they said the Cylons had a plan too. And that was just as bogus.
@@bryanreed742 this isn't abt wether god is real or not, it's derailing the argument
Yeah and it's also completely inconsistent since on some issues they claim to perfectly know god's will (condoms, abortion, homosexuals, etc) and then, as you said, for the problem of evil they say stuff like 'well of course it doesn't make sense to you, that's just because we are not able to understand god's plan'
Pleasant things are an incentive to exploit more people to get more pleasant things. This is why we can't have nice things.
/uj actually nice things can exist outside of capitalism, and we could have even more nice things and more importantly distribute these nice things way more evenly without capitalism, so yes capitalism is why we can't have nice things. Now go smash capitalism, you can still be a communist if you like stuff everyone
“If god is evil, then why is there so much good?”
He tried his best with the Bible to get people to defend genocide, slavery, and misogyny, and it has worked for millions, maybe billions
There are worse things that could be done…
@@1mol831true but then you can't use the theodicy of the greater good God is achieving
@@S.D.323 God doesn’t really need to be good. An evil God can be as valid as a good God.
@@1mol831 true but most theists believe he is
I like this video however there’s one thing they misconceder just because you look outside and see beauty does not mean an evil god does not make sense he could be a trickster making things seem good so you praise him even when he is torturing the shit out of you job is perfect for this he went through hell at the hands of god thourgh satan for god knew what satan would do yet job was supposed to still stay loyal and when bad things happen to us were supposed to think it happens for a reason right a good read apparently a perfect disguise for a trickster I hurt you but only because it’ll help you in the end yet if he’s all powerful couldn’t he find a way to help you without evil having to happen trust in yourself learn right and wrong from life and don’t follow religion it’ll fuck you up I still am recovering from that crap
I always hated the ,,have lower order“ to appreciate a ,,higher order“ argument.
Look at your dog, he’s warm, cozy, fed, walked around and u love and cuddle him.
Does your dog know anything else? No! Does he seem empty or unhappy because of it? Nah! He just enjoys!
In fact, dogs luckily seem super happy all the time.
Dog doesn't have consciousness
yes they do@@TimtheEnchanter25
@@TimtheEnchanter25 the fuck?
@@TimtheEnchanter25You cant know that. Study shows animals likely do have conciousnes.
Interestingly, the Zoroastrians had a concept of two gods - one good, the other evil - because they simply could not come to terms with the concept of a sole omnipotent god being entirely good. An interesting solution to a very old dilemma.
Indeed
@Shaun Welch a belief system with two gods is not more wrong than a belief system with one. They’re equally wrong
@Shaun Welch despite your comment being a word salad it manages to contain 100 calories from *fat.*
Christian Gnosticism is more plausible than Zoroasterism.
Christianity basically did the same by pinning evil on Satan, turning it from a title for a nameless agent of a capricious God to the name of a singular being that introduced evil into the world. But then Christians couldn't let go of the idea that God must be maximally powerful and benevolent and infinitely more in charge than Satan, and so it fell into an absurdity that they've been trying to rationalize for two millennia.
Gnostics did it somewhat similarly by pinning evil on the Demiurge (identified with Yahweh in the Old Testament), but then they posited that the supreme being is a deistic god, and that enlightenment could come from acquiring knowledge of this being. It's interesting to wonder about how Christianity might have wound up had Gnosticism become orthodoxy.
I feel like my IQ jumps 25 points whenever I’m watching your videos.
Fr
Too bad it’s all feel
@@Mrbrycejames yeah... 😔
Now the matter is whether it jumps up, down, or stays in place due to gravitation pulling you back to the ground
@@Mrbrycejames well actually, it is emotional engagement that stimulates your attention to learn with eagerness! It links with interest and passion. I would also say to establish a rule of principles within judgement in order to make confident debates.
I totally can acknowledge that I could show you evidence that IQ is just a number that defines a result within a specific period of time you previously evaluated yourself!
I think dc comics said the best quote for these aruments of good and evil . dream said to Lucifer "What is the point of hell if its sinners couldn't dream of heaven"
People dream about the better life they could have had had they not acted or chosen as they did in their past and that’s hell for them.
Unlike you I know God true nature. God can be good and evil at the same time. He created the universe just entrainment himself because he was bored. We are an extention of God's nature, we have free will like him. But he can influence us to do sometimes what he wants us to do good or evil. And when we die, what's really happening is that God make us reincarnated in a new life just to his eternal entrainment. It will never and, you're happiness and your pain will never and. There is heaven or hell. We just make a reincarnation to another human life. That's the truth that God reveals to me. Now you know the all truth.
@@tonydixon25 Oh really how else do you know his nature?
The skill of reversing arguments to analyze them like this is powerful but difficult to develop to the point that it can readily be used during a debate. Thanks @CosmicSkeptic for this exercise in rationality.
This reminds me of the early Christian "heresy" that the creator is an "evil demiurge" and Jesus came to defeat Him.
I think it could also be viewed that Satan is the co-creator with God of the nature of the human consciousness and that God is cutting Satan out of the future development of humanity by playing the character of Jesus. But humans have free will and can choose to stay in the Satan world that is headed for destruction or leave behind Satan's world and rejoin with God.
Good point. Your Talking about Marcians dogma of God the stranger.
@@stephensinclair3771 Thanks. I couldn't think of the name. If I had to choose a Christian dogma, this one is near the top of the list for making way more sense to me than modern dogmas.
@@drewharrison6433 the history of these ideas is kind of the smoking gun (if it was needed) that tells you its all made up. In more modern times you had people try to introduce the idea of soul sleep 💤 the old r I p idea. The souls of the dead are not conscious until the last day. It was a bit of a hard sell compared to a personal encounter with the almighty on your own death. Nowadays it has the fancy name Christian nominism. Calvin and Luther had those of their followers who tried to introduce it killed and driven underground....or as they would have argued - the Holy ghost 👻 did it and ran away.
@@stephensinclair3771 I am certainly glad that I don't have to choose a Christian dogma. I can just do what they did and make something up thar makes sense to me.
Of course what I made up doesn't have a supreme creator...
i was thinking about this earlier lol great timing
Um... divine intervention?
Oh wait...
@@jr_1742 Wrong. Look at one of the comments I posted.
@@almukhlabi it's just a joke
@@almukhlabi well I finally found it... and I’m disappointed. Your contention with the video (and has nothing to do with my comment btw) was that Alex didn’t consider your specific theology and the idea of the afterlife.
He was looking specifically about what we can see in the world now because that’s all the problem of evil was ever contending with.
His aim to was to show that the problem of evil and the ‘problem of good’ both explain our word with equal explanatory power. That’s it.
Why you responded to my joke comment I’ll never know I guess.
God is good you don't have to be free will gives you options you have to make that decision blindly otherwise it's not you
I like pineapple on pizza, hence I must be evil. 😧
You must be the antichrist
Clearly.
Have you ever heard the Qur’an talking about Jesus and his mother, peace be upon a translator. Did you know that Jesus and his mother mentioned the Qur’an 25 times? Listen to me the linkua-cam.com/video/Tm2hW3p9QaYD/v-deo.htmlo you have a question you want to know about Islam? We answer your question within the linkwww.faithchat.com. س
@@veryrespectful583 The Quran is poorly-plagiarised.
Let's make a cult
Parents are evil for bringing innocent beings to an evil world
Someone finally said what I've been thinking all along. I agree.
God created us to be able to create so it’s starts there.
You know, if we were born again and I could know some things, I probably wouldn't have children. I love them so much and I don't want them to suffer, but life is suffering. 🫤
@@V8AmericanMuscleCar I think the fact that you can even admit that is a wonderful thing❤️
the joy of raising children is one of the few good things we experience.
Interesting, I never thought of reversing the argument. It seems to work, except when I consider evil: most religious consider evil to be whatever is against the will of God. By that definition, God can't be evil, but rather morally neutral, if not actually good. Aside from this, I find the speculation fascinating. I liked the video. A good explanation of the understanding of good and evil!
Morality is a function of time and space
By ur explanation god is good no matter what he does..since his opposite of evil(everything against his will)
@@okapi3202 that’s if you believe morals are subjective
@@okapi3202 if you think morality is subjective the world shows a inconsistent moral god
Is there really such a thing as moral neutrality?
God claims that he created darkness and calamity/evil (Isaiah 45:7), but believers act like they don't see this scripture 🤣
Hahaha 🤣 You're right
I been saw that lmao 😂
you should expose yourself to more content
They make bullshit argument, change translations, versions, to be able to make arguments.
For example they could argue that God creates the challenges, that SEEM to be calamities and problems, that tests his people.
Yeajh, because a God that KNOWS EVERYTHING, needs to tests people to chech if they're good or bad.
People tend to read it as God creating the potential for evil, rather than evil directly. God created Lucifer and Lucifer chose a dark path.
Absolutely great point Alex, as a Christian myself is very helpful to be aware of the fallacy in those theodicies. Awesome content as always!
@@anonymoussecretly2638 Check yourself. All I gotta say is, be humble. Correction isnt me being above you, it's just me(an imperfect being) giving you what's correct(so you know what's better). I didn't trashtalk your grammar. I just said he made more sense which is a fact. If you dont wanna deal with it then dont. I'm not forcing you in any way. Peace.
@@iru_es its fine now. I delete all my comment. Its not good to look at. Bad vibe giving me frustration.
Daniel Ferreira, why are you a Christian? How did you become a Christian?
just curious. Are you still Christian?
Welcome to this atheist community glad your here
Before we decide, we must look at how we pass judgment:
1. A person needs only commit evil ONCE to be labeled or imprisoned for life.
2. Most people would embrace higher authority out of selfishness, not out of justice.
Let’s apply that to god.
Next in line is the definition of good: Good is a necessity to protect interests from the ever lurking evil in the world. A parental love for offsprings. A partner’s care from breakup or betrayal. Giving the poor to prevent further evil from spreading. Evils we weren’t responsible for to begin with.
What every person must realize on this world is that One who created this all can only decide what is what because He is Ultimate Creator of Everything including what will be good and what will be evil and He have power to sustain it
The loving God who put us all into a world full of nothing but pain and misery just to test whether we'll bend over backwards to make him feel like a king.
I don't see any point why to test us, if omnipotent god alredy knew the outcome before the test?
@@almightybunny3320 Because it's all just a load of bullshit anyway.
@@platosocrates9350
Yes, abrahamic god is logical contradiction!
@@almightybunny3320 Maybe it's for entertainment? or it could be a some mysterious reason we wouldn't be able to understand. It's like a ants trying to understand why humans do things. Even as Atheist, I would've guessed if god exist we will be never understand the meaning and reasoning behind their action. Or just maybe no one is piloting this ship called the universe and the universe is just on a autopilot.
@@almightybunny3320 If I were God I would probably create living things in order to 'feel'. Before the creation of whatever there is to call a 'world' there was nothing but emptiness. Or I would simply be a consciousness that coming into being ultimately gave way to the creation of the world. I have no idea what actually happened cause given that God is true, I'm not God and I wasn't born before the world came into being.
If God exists, he clearly hates us 😂
Fr I wouldn’t worship him even if he showed himself to me
Fuck God!
@Peter Griffin He is more worse than satan.
@t tuber He bring me bad things anyways. So what is the use of being non-blasphemous? Plus, just look at the old testament. Who torment Job? Who kill innocent children in Egypt instead of their sinful parents themselves? Who drowned millions of people in Noah's time? Satan? Oh come on man!
@Peter Griffin Doshite?
Evil God in the thumbnail looks like Keanu 😂
Wake the fuck up samurai
@@Johnson-br2lw we have a city to burn
No he doesn’t there’s a huge difference
@@Kai-zq9xn fuckin camp buddy profile pic
Reeves
It hinges on who is defining good and evil. If "you" (or I) get to decide what is good and what is evil, then you can either have a good God, an evil God, or something in between.
The other thing to consider for an "evil" god allowing good is that if everyone was completely evil all the time, the world would end quickly. In order to prolong suffering, some good must be allowed to exist to continue the human experience.
There's actually more reasons for an evil god than a good one, really. Not that I think there is a god at all, of course.
Great point, that's true! It would certainly maximize evil if it was prolonged for as long as possible.
Why doesn’t an evil god just create us and revive us, that would be more evil, oops your logic is flawed
Beastiliality, incest, in-humane torture, yup a maximally evil God doesn’t exist otherwise everytime the sun rose everyone would be in excruciating agonizing pain, but hey if you think your logic works for a maximally evil god go ahead
@@japexican007 The same response can be given to the notion a good god.
That's the whole point. The justification are flawed.
@@hanansheikh5016 no not really, think about it, I’ll wait
Evil god can’t exist, otherwise pedophilia or murder wouldn’t be a taboo in societies. Under a universe with an evil God, people in societies would regress morally, there would be large movement to bring back slavery and taking away women’s rights. Narcissistic personality traits would be naturally selected for
Alex, because of you I am actually attempting to go fully vegan. I made a big step: finding a non-dairy coffee creamer that I like!
Avoid coconut-based at all costs! It gets all weird and clumpy when added to coffee, I don't even know why they make it 😂
Most people like almond-based creamer perfectly well, but cashew and oat are by far the creamiest if you can find them. Oat and soy both have higher protein content, although soy tends to be an acquired taste for most people.
Oh wait, you're saying you've found one already right? Just pretend I was talking about milks then lol. Which one did you find?
Congrats ! It is truly a pleasure to know you are part of our movement ! And don't forget, repetition legitimizes. After a year of being vegan, I don't even remember what milk tasted like, let alone cream. It's easier to accept and cherish alternatives after awhile, since our memories are slowly decaying, and our tastes always evolving.
@@reeceb1259 I got an almond based one, but I might try cashew or oat next time!
Have you ever heard the Qur’an talking about Jesus and his mother, peace be upon a translator. Did you know that Jesus and his mother mentioned the Qur’an 25 times? Listen to me the linkua-cam.com/video/Tm2hW3p9QaYD/v-deo.htmlo you have a question you want to know about Islam? We answer your question within the linkwww.faithchat.com. س
Basically, we're left with the middle position: an indifferent god may exist who doesn't care about the universe or anyone in it, and my not even be aware it created a universe; in which case it doesn't matter whether we believe in it or not
Precisely!!
Exactly
Sounds a bit Lovecraftian, but I'll take it
@Alex Garcia 6 out of 10 for creativity; 10 out of 10 for BS. If your god is omnipotent, and omniscient then it's impossible for his plan to go astray, and if he's omnibenevolent he wouldn't create a place to punish people eternally for a finite crime
@Alex Garcia "Good and Evil are the awareness of what's right from wrong", so why did your god deny that awareness to Adam and Eve? Without that awareness they should not be punished for your god's failure to provide that awareness. Your god really is quite incompetent for an omniscient, omnipotent being, and quite vengeful for an omnibenevolent one.
"but God has two answers for that according to the bible", you assume the Bible is divinely inspired, which it clearly isn't.
and
"2. There is little you can do about it: ", which was my original point: it doesn't matter either way.
and finally:
"Hell is really separation from God", I disagree, eternal torment is being forced to be in the presence of the psychotic, cruel, unjust maniac forever, and being made to enjoy it
This is absolutely genius and commen sense all at the same time! Instant subscribe!!! ❤️
Alternative subtitle: "Please don't clip these arguments out of context". Great vid with clear and concise views, keep up the great work!
As a Christian I always appreciate these videos by you man. It paints a clearer picture no matter what side you are on. You are probably one of the most objective thinkers I can think of and it’s why I subscribe to you. Keep it up my man! 👍🏽
We are in the last day be careful whose side you choose , it's not time to be lukewarm. LORD will arrive soon.
Never considered this point of view, thank you for sharing this.
Good comment. There's a lot of venting and ignorance down here. Nice to read one calm comment.
Good video.....these are new arguments and this is compelling.
Day 2 of petitioning you to make a discord server where us fans can actually have good conversations with you : )
Btw, i'm never disappointed with your content. Always love coming back!
And with each other
Don’t you think this is quite an entitled way of asking someone for a favour?
@@sebidotorg what favour?
I agree I would love to talk with fellow ComicSkepticians! I hope he sees this as I would love to help set it up and moderate it!
@@sagniksarkar2471 To set up a server and have all the hassle with having to moderate it.
Nice video Alex, myself an a few family members from Ireland have booked Vegan Camp Out 2021, looking forward to hearing you speak. Was there in 2019 absolutely great experience.🌱🌍
What did you learn from this?
God: the pure, subsisting act of being itself
Goodness: being as perfective and sought after by an appetite
Evil: the lack of due prefective being
“*drooling* cOuLd GoD bE eViL?”
Atheism is very much dead demographically, & intellectually, shown by the New Atheism, which itself has collapsed. CosmicSkeptic will convert soon.
But your God claims to be "good", he never says that he's the "pure, subsiding act of being himself", he addresses himself with terms like "All Good"
@@catholicknight9002 It's only increasing. Religion is the only thing that's dying
I don't know. The parasite that bores into the brain of its host to lay its eggs seems to have perfected that means of reproduction.
@@catholicknight9002 "Atheism is very much dead demographically, & intellectually..." Dream on!
Alex does a wonderful job of turning the theist defenses against themselves
However, even more striking / impressive, is that Alex can go through all of the arguments, forward first and then backward, without getting lost in all of the convolutions!
My goodness, he is a clear thinker (and speaker)!!
Im a Deist who very much dislikes organised Religion and yes i 100% agree Alex is fantastic something very special
I had the pleasure of Stephen Law coming to my school and talking about this idea. I even got to speak to him about my EPQ (which was on a philosophical topic). It was fantastic
Pineapple is one of my favorite pizza toppings. I guess I'm evil.
What toppings taste best with pineapple, or is a plain pineapple and cheese pizza best?
@@willjackson5885 sausage
@@willjackson5885 basically Hawaiian pizza
@@willjackson5885
Pineapple and jalapeño go best together on pizza imo
@@willjackson5885 rat poison goes amazing with pineapple.
It is amazingly only the second worst thing on that pizza
Actually, having some living well while others live horrible lives is _exactly_ the kind of inequality that an evil god would create. That disparity creates the motivation for evil.
Believers should ask themselves a couple of questions, starting with these = 1. How did you determine that ‘god’ is the good one and satan is the evil one? What basis do you use to determine that your god is “good/moral”?
2. What acts would your "god" have to commit in order for you to consider him Evil?
Honestly think about those...
1) we've seen how God is and how satan is; God saved us from sinful lives. sometimes you just know what's from the devil and what's not. similar to a hunch or the classic "i have a bad feeling about this"
2) depend if God does things unnecessarily and hurts people just because
Also, we have various types of evidence for biblical events, if you're interested. good questions, by the way
@@spider-man9118 1. Yes, we've read the claimed things that both did in the bibles. The "Body Count" alone says that the god of the bibles is the BIGGEST MASS MURDERER in all of History! Save for those on the Arc, he KILLED off EVERY living creature on the planet!!! He's then killed off alot more and even Commanded the Killings of alot more. So not only did he Kill, but he Commanded Humans to Kill. So on one hand he says = "Thou shall not kill"... then in other verses HE COMMANDS KILLINGS!!!
Compare that to the "Satan" character. In the bibles he is said to have killed, you know how many? It says he killed = 10 people!!!! So the god of the bibles Killed off every living creature on the Planet, and Satan only killed 10 people. Honestly, you tell me, who is the "Evil" one of those 2?
2.The question was = "What acts would your "god" have to commit in order for you to consider him Evil?"
-- You said = "depend if God does things unnecessarily and hurts people just because"
Again, Honestly think about your reply. Is that "god" All Knowing? If yes, then he EASILY could think of better ways to get ANYTHING done with ZERO Killings and Sufferings, right? Is he All Powerful? If yes, then he has the Power to make it happen with those ZERO killings and Suffering. Is he All Loving? If yes, then he would WANT to do it in a way with ZERO Killings and ZERO Suffering. Yet, the "god" of the bibles just KILLS off the entire population of Earth and causes and allows Pain and Suffering....so those Deaths ARE as you said "unnecessarily and hurts people just because". That at the very least means it is not All Loving.
@@MasterSpade
1. revelation, teaching, and logic.
2. nothing.
@@joegame4576 -- 1. So you say you used = "revelation, teaching, and logic."
If that were true, you'd be Atheist right now.
2. Your answer to "what acts would your "god" have to commit in order for you to consider him Evil?", is = "nothing."
Honestly, think about that. You are saying that your god could Rape your children.... and you'd wouldn't consider him Evil!?? Your god could torture every living creature alive for all of Eternity for his Entertainment... and you still would not consider him Evil... think of what that says about you.
You’d get a more straight forward answer asking a wall.
You’re talking about a group of people that worship a deity that supposedly flooded the earth because people were banging their own family members (among other things)… so god, in his wisdom, decides to pick one RIGHTEOUS family to build a massive boat and then… Bang each other for repopulation.
-
(This happens again in sodom & Gomorrah,,, the Sexual relations between family, not the boat building lollll)
Right, and these people claim that this “god” of theirs is good and the basis for all good moral behavior 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
You just made my "god is evil" argument WAY better!!! Cant wait to use it
Oh. God is not evil. People are.
@@robertnixon6548 And who made people? People? I think not.
@@iru_es yeah I guess people do make people, I could explain how but I think your parents should do that.
@@keagan2509 Bruh. I said "who made people". How can a human create the human race if they already exist?
@@iru_es GOD created people out of love. The same way a father and mother create life out of love.
But ask yourself, is the parent evil because of the child doing?
This is such a brilliant thought experiment.
I just realized I was rather believing in an all evil deity for years xD
there was a time that I called myself a christian but believed god was evil, looking back it's obvious I was more of a theistic satanist
Bruh ua-cam.com/video/BhQmLFHxsBw/v-deo.html
That’s very interesting, I hope your mental health was in tack. I went through that too, and it was hell believing that my fate was in the hands of an all powerful evil god. I was so afraid of dying and going to hell but as much as I tried to pretend to love god for my salvation, I just couldn’t. It was years of torment and me hopelessly trying to be saved by the god I hated. The ultimate and most brutally horrifying prison. Thank goodness it’s all over now. Did you go through anything similar? I’m really curious
I still am one
@Shaun Welch May be confusing me with a certain other gman
@@RonaldinhoGoat not exactly, I believed that I was basically born to go to hell my existence was merely to suffer and this is the time of my life all my self harm scars come from
Stan: Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend?
Chef: Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand?
Stan: But then, why does God give us anything to start with?
Chef: Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and health just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power
I think you're angry because of the sh...ty theology they taught you at Church. If you try to think of God independently of the mainstream religion, you'll find a completely different story.
This is great!
@Mystic_Jawhar_Saaleh I didn't. I found a ruthless, evil deity hellBENT on treating me horribly- all my life. Literally, ALL MY LIFE.
I've been tortured by this deity. Him, and his followers. A lifetime of abuse, theft, and betrayal.
Not one bit of help. Prayer did exactly nothing.
@magicalvoidgirl3246well one reason might be we all learn and experience things different
the lessons they learned won’t necessarily be what you might
How deep did you dive?
@magicalvoidgirl3246 don't let Dovaloser gaslight you, you found no true good in them, because the core of most religions is the vile notion that humans are born evil.
Such a calming voice fueled by great intellect...❤️
Fueled*. Correct though.
As someone who experienced regular and religious trauma I am exited for this. Had to debate this and Got the theodicies
@Christian Ball he is a very good boy his name is Caesar. He is an incredible dog
@Christian Ball Shetland sheepdog
Have you ever heard the Qur’an talking about Jesus and his mother, peace be upon a translator. Did you know that Jesus and his mother mentioned the Qur’an 25 times? Listen to me the linkua-cam.com/video/Tm2hW3p9QaYD/v-deo.htmlo you have a question you want to know about Islam? We answer your question within the linkwww.faithchat.com.
@@veryrespectful583 i am not intrested. I will stay happy being finally free
@Shaun Welch reading your comment made me feel alot less alone I plan to beat god into the ground while screaming at him if he exists. I cant do what i want with life thanks to things outside of my controll
This is the best argument I have heard for the problem of evil! Excellent!
It is very important to look at the arguments within the bigger picture. You can flip arguments around all day long but without context, it`s just not relevant in order to explain reality in a plausible way. I made a video about it. Check it if you like! :) much love!
@@wideroomband There is context. And your right the argument doesn't make since, that is the point. How could the "author" of good create evil? Every question in you video can be flipped. Regarding your argument with ight is a metaphor has problems. Light and darkness are not inherently evil or bad. They both serve a purpose.
There is OVERWHELMINGLY more evil than good in the world. Thus an evil god is overwhelmingly more likely than a good god. And that's even without humans. Just look at the pain & suffering in the nature.
There is explanation for it in the Bible and if world was not in this state now than Bible would not be accurate
CosmicSkeptic: makes the pineapple on pizza joke
Italy: *SUBSCRIBES EN MASSE
Confermo
@Shaun Welch you're probably right, we're just obsessed with dunking on it because it's unusual for us and because it became a meme at this point
@Shaun Welch it’s a fruit. Fruit goes in a desert not in a dish like pizza. Eating pineapple plain is imo the only way to eat it.
In Italy one very common pizza is “pizza con patate e rosmarino”. That’s pizza with potatoes and rosemary, without tomato.
It’s fkin amazing! But I’d think that most people agreeing that pineapple is weird on a pizza wouldn’t want potatoes on their pizza either.
@@DeathWithinTenSteps I don't know about that, I think the weird thing about pineapple on pizza is that it's unusual to have something sweet on a pizza
I grabbed some popcorn 🍿, and straightaway went to comment section.
Same *chopping on popcorn *
I grabbed pineapple pizza
I’m pretty sure everyone did
im eating sum tacos right now bouta hop in, wish me luck
Same
Now, I agree with you, but pineapple on pizza is amazing and you can't ignore the suffering the world would fall into if it were to be eliminated.
but Muslims says this can make a differentiation between the true believer and the fake one i think this is some how a good answer to the problem, also not to forget they saying the God is wise and evil thing could be a good thing for you to make you stronger and so on, it is just like job story in the bible
@@sal8697 Ma'am this is a Mcdonalds.
@@lorddorogoth well this beats the problem of evil actually, but it does not work on the children for example
@@sal8697 ahhem, did you even read my comment?
@Mark Aguilera It is delicious, you should try hawaiian pizza
Absolutely amazing video!
I'm glad you've covered this. I propose this to people whenever I hit the subject.
You check out this response video to the evil god idea.
ua-cam.com/video/tRG4W61IHHI/v-deo.html
Follow Jesus and repent. Jesus is coming soon! Jesus died on a cross for OUR sins, believe and trust and live for Jesus and you will be saved. If you don't believe in God look outside your window, do you think all of that beauty came from literally nothing?! Jesus is coming soon. Also I have seen Angel in my room. God loves you sooooooooooooooooooo much! Just reach out to God and grab His hand. He WANTS to save you, you just have to let Him. God bless you. I love you.
I once heard that Jehovah was once part of a larger pantheon. Gee, I wonder what could have happened to all of those other gods?
Collin S. Jehovah, into the multiverse!
He destroyed them or at least attempted to because he wanted all the glory for himself. Lol
@@princessdarkness66 From what I heard is that all the other gods ( specially his mom ) just left him alone in a corner because he was a bratt and no one wanted to be around him. That corner is our universe.
@@uberkirbeeh7954 well that explains a lot. 😂🤣
@@uberkirbeeh7954 that reminds me of a creepypasta that I heard not too long ago, where this girl dies and ends up in what's left of eden and is saved by the first wife of Adam before Eve. She's told the "real" story of how god is a narcissistic and misogynistic jerk whereas his brothers were kind, loving gods.
Short answer: yes
Long answer:
Yep although the long answer from theists also involves a lot of dancing about, waving hands and general mental gymnastics which tend to result in...my book says he is good and perfectly loving.🤦
@@thedarknessthatcomesbefore4279 wrong
@@anepicflyingbrick_4872 please show your working others you get zero marks.
The heaven and eternal life idea is horrifyingly torturous agony for my mind. The fact that my conscious life will reach natural demise and everyday i survive takes me closer to death comforts me.
Eternal nonexistence is more terrifying than even eternal suffering in hell tbh.
@@TimtheEnchanter25 Interesting thought, but can you clarify. How is suffering eternally less terrifying then just not being conscious to feel anything? Btw i believe that our matter will live eternally, our smallest parts will become something else, but the consciousness will not remain atleast i hope not.
Even though you've made a video about the same topic before, i just love seeing how your opinions change over time as you grow and learn more 👍💜
The Underlings channel has an entire playlist that examines the concept of an evil god. Well worth the watch.
Yeah but it's Underlings ...
@@plantingasbulldog2009 No picky on underlings as he is not hostile to Gnosticism, per se...
@@plantingasbulldog2009 what about underlings?????
@@dewayne9508 He and his 'work' are exceedingly meh and quite out of touch with the literature.
Guy is an idiot. He thinks cancer and chemo are good things .. a sound scientific protocol. Underlings creator is a close minded moron. Take a pass
Thanks for continuing to support and encourage the vegan movement.
To me the problem with God is he's too self indulging and self celebrating. He asks everyone to love and praise him more than anything else and constantly. Even in Heaven Angels and humans sing his praise non stop. That seems pretty insane to me. A Infinite being does not nor would care to create life forms that praise him endlessly all the time. Not to mention being an all wise and knowing being yet getting mad and showing human emotions over things he as God was aware of forever before it happened as he knows all things. The fact he gets actively mad over it proves alone he's not whom he claims to be
Wrong.
I really like the native/ethnic faith of my people, Norse Mythology. We have ‘bad gods’, it’s much more interesting😂
Norse mythology is similar to Greek mythology in this sense.
nice name
Yeah Christians often mock polytheistic religions for being “simple” and “not reflective of reality,” but like, they make a heck of a lot more sense than any hypothesis about an omnibenevolent, omnipotent singular god
Gotta love being a Norse pagan in the 21st century
Cant tell what was originally part of the faith and which Christians added
True. Thor is even a superhero now.
I’ve been trying to concisely argue this for a while now. Thank you for this video. It helped me better form my argument!
So, what's your argument?
Hi! Also check out the reation video I made recently in order to get the bigger picture as well. much love!
@@hexadecimil Did you watch the video? That’s the argument (obviously) I’m talking about.
Ah. I did. Not sure then 😳 what I was thinking when I commented this.
I'm a Christian and I would like to provide my thoughts on this video:
I completely agree that the theodicies can be argued for a good God or a bad God. However, as pointed out in the introduction, they are primarily used to defend against the Atheist argument of the Problem of Evil, which is specifically targeted against a good God. This means that if, on the contrary, most religions happen to believe in an evil God, then the Atheist argument would simply become the Problem of Good. To me, this neither supports nor undermines either side of the argument, because Christians and Atheists alike make arguments on the basis that God is good, simply because most existing religions assume a good God.
In this video, no conclusions were drafted that undermines these theodicies. By this I mean that they can be reasonably considered as true, whether applied to a good or bad God. This means that the possibility of God, whether good or bad, is still open to question. Thus as I see it, this cannot be used to disprove (or prove) the existence of God, whether religions claim that he is good or bad.
I think that Atheists often believe that Christians don't question the things they believe in. I just wanted to share that some of us do think logically and are critical about what we believe. Feel free to leave comments below as there can definitely be flaws in my argument.
I feel that this video was a pretty weak argument trying to justify the "The Evil God Hypothesis". Especially the part "The problem of good" starting at 7:38.
Sure, he can flip around the Theodicies like he did, but those flipped Theodicies doesn't have any bases on reality.
@Nuby
I'm unsure if I understood you correctly, so please correct me if I misunderstood what you said.
By the "other side", do you mean the belief that God is evil? And that there's more data to support an evil god than a good one? If so, I would disagree. My evidence comes from the reliability and content of religious texts (which of course I know does nothing to convince an atheist). But I would like to see where you are coming from.
As for the "basis of the theodicy", I believe I have already explained where I think they come from. The theodicies are based on the Problem of Evil, which is based on the religious belief that God is good, which itself is based on reliability and content of religious texts. So IMO the bottom line also ends up being the reliability and content of religious texts. When I read the Bible, I question and analyze what it is saying and judge for myself whether it is trustworthy. In fact, Paul tells us to do so (1 Corinthians 10:15).
@Nuby
I assume 'God is good' because it is written in the Bible. However, if we ignore the Bible, I agree that beginning from the 'God is evil' hypothesis we also arrive at a logically coherent conclusion. However, consider a world where the Bible says that God is evil instead. Then Atheists in that world would simply point out why Christians assume that God is evil when it is also logically coherent for him to be good. So in either world Atheists are unhappy, so it adds nothing to question why we assume one or the other. He is either good or bad, but he just so happens to be good in this particular world (I do not think it is arbitrary but we shall save the discussion).
Christians do not all agree on the age of the earth. I, for one, do not prescribe to say that the earth is only a thousand years old. I do not think it is stated anywhere in the Bible. If Christians are making these statements, they probably based them off genealogies. But there may be time skips between generations in the Bible, so I do not think these estimates are necessarily accurate. On the other hand, I don't think that science can determine the age of the earth to a high degree of accuracy either, because the numbers these tests give are unverifiable. Normal lab experiments can be repeated and will produce the same results every time, but estimates about the age of the earth cannot be proven, because the history of the universe cannot be repeated in a controlled environment. Same thing can be said of the theory of evolution. Therefore I am skeptical of such proofs and stick to verifiable truths, which are typically philosophical and can be reasoned out.
Inconsistencies in the Bible can typically be explained as a misunderstanding of doctrine. In the Bible, God is described not only as loving, but also just and holy, and people often miss these attributes of God and focus on just love.
Here is one explanation: It is required for God to give us free will because when God created us, his purpose for us was to love him, and it is not love if it is not chosen by us. Thus, originally, free will was not purposed for evil. But because of the fall, all humans now do evil things, and thus they deserve punishment. In fact, we have no excuse because we know what we do is evil. But because God loves us, he extends an invitation for us through Jesus to return to him even though we are evil and he is holy and good.
Theoretically, for God to be just and holy, those deserving of punishment (i.e. all humankind because we all do bad things) should die. However, because God is loving, those who turn away from evil and back to him will be saved. It would be just as clever to argue that God is unjust because even sinners are saved, as to argue that God is unloving because even people that God love are punished. The scenario posed in the Bible is really the only scenario when God can be both equally just and loving.
People living in poverty and babies dying is insufficient proof for an evil god, because as stated in the video, therein arises the Problem of Good (starting from 7:00), which questions why there are people living in luxury if God is evil. So if you argue that God is evil you might as well argue that God is good.
Well I am unsure about your last concern. I personally think it is due to the sin that is in this world and in us. As I described earlier, God is holy, so he cannot be with sin. I think this is the reason why he does not come to us. But that does not mean he has given up on us, as he sent his son to redeem us.
Well I hope this gives you a good perspective of how Christians think and why the "Does God exist?" debate is still ongoing when it seems that the Bible is incoherent at first glance.
There is no chosen one. You must chose yourself. You must understand god is only ever above you. And your purpose is to spread kindness. Emotions are there to be felt. But never be a slanderer because of them. If your questioning if god is evil. You’re only questioning yourself and your doubt.
Ah, so the fault is on the victims'. 🙄
The "put pineapple on pizza" part got me laughing so hard my manger kicked me out 😂
love pineapple on pizza"
@Christian Ball oh, the thought only make me giggle..
Manger eh? You baby Jesus?
@@TakeTheVeilESP God, God smacked me with a lightning bolt 😂
Have you ever heard the Qur’an talking about Jesus and his mother, peace be upon a translator. Did you know that Jesus and his mother mentioned the Qur’an 25 times? Listen to me the linkua-cam.com/video/Tm2hW3p9QaYD/v-deo.htmlo you have a question you want to know about Islam? We answer your question within the linkwww.faithchat.com. م
That awkward moment where an evil good sounds like it conforms better to reality then good god.
That's because it's true!
It does, i mean is not true, but us clearly less wrong that the good god theory
But...I love pineapple pizza!
Jokes aside this is a really good video, I hadn't thought of the problem of evil in this way but the argument is pretty solid. I really enjoy your videos in general, you have such a calm and rational way of explaining things. I wish more people could discuss topics like these calmly like you do.
Maybe this is a dumb take but my thoughts on this is that if good is all loving and all powerful, why did he make it so that we need a reference point of what evil is to appreciate good. Why didn't he just make it... not so? Just make us capable of understanding good without evil actually existing. I know it doesn't make sense, but if god is omnipotent, surely he can decide what makes sense when he creates a world
that absolutely makes sense, and it's another refutal of that theology
I am not a believer anymore (for a few years already), but I still go to church, because I help my friend with a kids choir (fun fact is that she is an atheist as well). And I am very often surprised how priests or bishops use fear in people so often and so much. And I am even more surprised that I couldn't see it before. There will be a counting of population in our country and our local bishop has written a letter about it. So it was read last sunday and I was so surprised how people can be ok with it. He literally stated- "Religion is optional and it is up to you to choose. But remember that if you were baptised, you are a christian for ever and you should count yourself as one. And if you do not, remember that Jesus will not be on your side after your death as well and he will not let you into heaven."
I can't handle this amount of fearmongering and manipulation... it's just disgusting to me even to hear it, not to mention thinking about it and believing it. I dunno why people can't see this. It's terrible. Now imagine that you are baptised, but you stop believing. I never chose to be a christian and I never wanted it... I was brainwashed and fed crap since my childhood, but I abandoned it simply because I do not agree. And that should be the reason for which a "all-loving, all-mighty, all-good" god will punish me and sends me to hell to eternally suffer, even if I am a good person? No, thank you.
How can you give free will to people and then tell them that they can or do not have to believe, but then if they don't, they will suffer? That's like a SAW movie...
To wrap it up. One part of Bible says something like "All good people will reach heaven" (at least in our translation), but in the other part there is "If you don't believe, you will eternally suffer". So which one of this? One states- all you need is being good; and the other- being a good person is not enough. Ooof... I'm done with this...
What’s the verse that says all good people will reach heaven?
@@elderyear I don't know the numbers from my head... Would you be surprised if I said that I have no idea which exact verse it is, since when they read it in church, they don't read the verse, only the book. And if you read to yourself and you are a normal person, you don't pay attention to numbers next to the text. If you want to quote me on that, feel free to. Idc. It also might be different in different languages. English is not my mother language. Maybe it was Colossians or Romans, not sure. But in our language the exact translation would be "the righteous people reach heaven", but we have it changed into something like "all the good people" in our language.
@@Darkry I’m just curious because you’d think it would be a good counter argument to someone arguing the whole John 3:16 thing about needing to accept Jesus to be saved. I suspect your church’s translation takes some liberties, because a verse that states you don’t need to believe in god to go to heaven would be used by every single counter-apologist, all the time.
@@elderyear I don't want to counter Christians with their own book... Cuz some say that it's supposed to be taken literally, others say that it's only a metaphor. And they use Bible against you if you even give a hint that you read it. It's funny- you either can't understand, since you haven't read it, or you are a believer, since you did read it (based on logic of most I met)...
In my opinion, I believe that the Illuminati exists and they purposely created everyone to have different religions so that we could all fight and have wars over it.
you actually just blew my mind haha! Love your content!
Gods do one good thing! They make a great characters in stories and films!
Estrella Star Yes - horror films !
@@margaretbarrett6087 Thor and his comedy films would like a word
Im a Christian and working on figuring out my biggest questions that i have. There's a lot of holes that i had no idea about. For argument sake. What if God is neither evil or good. But just like us. We make mistakes that are bad. But we also are good sometimes. We are made in his image after all. Just a hypothesis.
This blew my mind. I’v never even considered this perspective.
Great work Alex 👍
A brilliant proposal being bought forward to the table their mate well done. Currently, I am a Christian however more and more every day I do wondering if am having madness episodes. The more I don't believe in God the better I feel about everything.
Excelente, keep going on to the path towards becoming a more compassionate human!
Good luck to you on your journey!
I like the word “currently” !
@@margaretbarrett6087 Well it's the truth.
Either god isn’t all good or he isn’t all powerful his track record shows he can’t be both at the same time.
Why
@@anepicflyingbrick_4872 have you ever read the news ?
@@BaraWilmer how’s does that prove God isn’t all good and all powerful
@@anepicflyingbrick_4872 it does lmao
@@BaraWilmer ok but how
Why would God put people through some of the worst human experiences ever? Makes no sense how some on earth have such terrible lives while a "All loving" God is watching over it.