Classic French Braided Brioche (With Poolish)

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  • Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
  • Brioche is one of the most fluffiest and induldgent breads you can make. Its one of my favourite breads to eat and makes anyone who eats it feeling really happy. I don't know how the French Bakers were able to put so much butter in a bread dough but what an amazing invention :) I hope you enjoy making this recipe and feel free to comment and ask me any questions.
    My Bread Baking Masterclass
    www.udemy.com/course/bread-ba...
    Timecodes
    0:00​- Intro
    0:22​- Making the Poolish
    1:00- Making the Dough
    2:30​- Adding Butter to the Dough
    3:11​- 1st Fermentation
    3:54​- 2nd Fermentation
    4:05- Dividing and Shapping the Dough
    5:15- Braiding the Dough
    6:06- Final Fermentation
    6:44- Baking the Dough
    7:55- Final Result
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
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    Recipe
    Poolish
    For the Starter:
    60 grams Flour (1/2 cup)
    8 grams Yeast (2 1/4 teaspoons)
    50 grams Milk (3 1/2 tablespoons)
    Dough:
    40 grams Sugar (3 tablespoons)
    340 grams Bread Flour (2 3/4 cups)
    200 grams Eggs (about 4 eggs)
    8 grams Salt (1 1/2 teaspoons)
    150 grams Butter (Soft) (1/2 cup + 2 teaspoons)
    Egg Wash:
    1 Egg
    1 teaspoon Milk
    Instructions
    1. Combine the flour, yeast and cold milk and set aside for one hour to ferment
    2. Put the remaining flour, sugar, salt and eggs and add the poolish
    3. Knead in the mixer and medium speed for 5-6 mins. Until it comes together in a slightly smooth dough
    4. Add 75 Grams Soft Butter and knead for another 5 minutes until combined
    5. Add the remaining 75 Grams Butter and knead for another 5-7 mins until smooth and shiny
    6. Roll it into a tight ball and ferment for 2-3 Hours
    7. Deflate and roll into a ball and ferment overnight in the fridge
    8. The next day divide into 4 pieces and shape into a log about 50 cm in length.
    9. Braid into a wreath and ferment for 3-4 hours
    10. Egg Wash and put sesame seeds on top and bake for 30 mins at 180C/350F
    11. Finish with Butter and unmould and let it cool for 30-40 mins
    ------------------------------
    Acoustic/Folk Instrumental by Hyde - Free Instrumentals / davidhydemusic
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    ------------------------------
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 139

  • @julian3274
    @julian3274 3 роки тому +29

    Wow one of the few UA-cam brioche videos that actually achieved that signature stringy texture

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  3 роки тому +3

      Thank you! I'm glad that you know about that beautiful texture. I think the key is to add butter slowly
      Its a total joy to eat it though, if made well!

  • @stevenmassey2276
    @stevenmassey2276 Місяць тому

    Not a single spoken word, but so greatly imparted a vast amount of knowledge! Thank you so much!

  • @camilahearst4171
    @camilahearst4171 9 місяців тому

    That is so beautiful! So perfect! Congratulations!

  • @xochitl.7701
    @xochitl.7701 3 роки тому +8

    the most beautiful bun i’ve ever seen!! love this!

  • @magisterparsons
    @magisterparsons 3 роки тому +4

    Very grateful for your content. Beautiful video!!

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  3 роки тому +1

      Thank you so much for your lovely comment!

  • @perlahuber4099
    @perlahuber4099 Рік тому +1

    I'm a baker myself. what i liked about is the shape you made. thanks for giving me idea.

  • @quaich14
    @quaich14 Рік тому

    The process was worth it lovely squishy stringy sweet yellow brioche. Thank you for the recipe 👍😊

  • @chelysaenz9173
    @chelysaenz9173 Рік тому +1

    Your hands are full of love for bake 😍 . And so gentle... . Thank you so much for share this lesson 🙏

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  Рік тому

      Thank you so much for your lovely comment ☺️

  • @mbashari2575
    @mbashari2575 Рік тому +1

    Thank you for this wonderful...delicious recipe!!! I could not stop eating 😋

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  Рік тому +1

      Thank you so much. It's one of my favourites as well :)

  • @dwiwanna8910
    @dwiwanna8910 3 роки тому +7

    I tried and i loved it! Thank you so much for sharing! :)

  • @Maison_Mochi
    @Maison_Mochi Рік тому

    LCB trained here too🙋🏻‍♀️Love this brioche vid! More power👊🏼

  • @matteonicolas3247
    @matteonicolas3247 2 роки тому +2

    Never has making bread and brioche been more therapeutic

  • @LinhNguyen-hn1yg
    @LinhNguyen-hn1yg 8 місяців тому

    Love it ! Thanks !

  • @bakinitright6637
    @bakinitright6637 3 роки тому +6

    Perfection, love your videos, keep it up

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  3 роки тому +2

      Thank you. I'm working on some really cool ideas. You'll see them soon :)

  • @bartlomiejchoinski2848
    @bartlomiejchoinski2848 8 місяців тому

    This is world class brioche.

  • @robbymack2668
    @robbymack2668 3 роки тому +16

    Have been making bread for 20 years and searching for a 'proper' brioche loaf recipe. I've made some expensive bricks after following other instructions, but this recipe actually worked perfectly and I have finally achieved a beautiful, light brioche loaf. Thankyou so much for this - just can't believe how different one recipe can be from another. It is so good! (Next I am trying your croissant recipe. :-))

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  3 роки тому +3

      That sounds so amazing. Brioche is all about technique and when to add butter to the dough. I am so glad that you could make an amazing loaf.
      Be patient with the croissant though. Keep practicing and you'll get the honeycomb!
      Thank you

    • @robbymack2668
      @robbymack2668 3 роки тому +2

      @@peacefulbaking If your brioche recipe and technique are anything to go by, (where I achieved perfection on the very first try!!), I will have no trouble nailing the croissants using your method. But I do acknowledge that I practiced a LOT on really bad brioche recipes before I found your excellent video. You are the master, and I copied your technique, which made all the difference. Thank you again.

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  3 роки тому +1

      @@robbymack2668 Thank you for your kind comments! I am excited to see how you go with the croissants.
      No worries, I made the channel so everyone could learn professional tehniques :)

  • @chelysaenz9173
    @chelysaenz9173 Рік тому +2

    I love your hands, and all those delicious things you make... Thank you

  • @loladia1933
    @loladia1933 Рік тому +5

    I tried this and respected the fermentation times. The result was amazing!! Just like in the video. I was blown away by the texture 😍 I had to add more flour though to get same texture when baking as I used all purpose Flour. ...thank you for such great video .Will surely try more of your recepies👍

  • @tamanhalan3849
    @tamanhalan3849 2 роки тому +1

    Thank you 🙏

  • @katycat3200
    @katycat3200 Рік тому

    Wow yummy 🤤

  • @huonghuynh2106
    @huonghuynh2106 2 роки тому +4

    Absolutely brioche I’ll try to make it one day
    Thanks for your video 🙏🏻

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому +2

      Sure do, Its an amazing bread!

    • @huonghuynh2106
      @huonghuynh2106 2 роки тому +1

      @@peacefulbaking i just made it today ! Successful and so happy - Thanks again 🥰

  • @baochaudinhhoang4151
    @baochaudinhhoang4151 3 місяці тому

    J'aime bien votre recette. J'ai essaye de le Faire. Chest un regal. Merci a vous.

  • @shar5527
    @shar5527 2 роки тому +3

    Made it! Tasty tasty bread! Thanks for sharing.

  • @user-bu6ye5fk4u
    @user-bu6ye5fk4u 3 роки тому +6

    Very good

  • @basmamah5424
    @basmamah5424 2 роки тому +1

    Merci from france

  • @raquelbarros8384
    @raquelbarros8384 2 роки тому +2

    Perfeito 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 🇧🇷

  • @garbagebin8282
    @garbagebin8282 3 роки тому +5

    an absolutely gorgeous piece bread sir, well done. (:
    though i would more than love to, i won't be able to make it as a family member of mine is allergic to yeast, oh well.

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  3 роки тому +6

      Cheers! Thats a shame. What about sourdough?Living without eating bread would be so hard.

  • @hanaismail6118
    @hanaismail6118 Місяць тому

    Do you keep the oven fan or grill on or no? Also recipe looks great. Can’t wait to try it!

  • @wanlingloh6634
    @wanlingloh6634 2 роки тому

    Hi, can I knead the by hand since I don’t have a mixing machine? I am confused with the final fermentation, would appreciate if you could reconfirm is 2 hours or 4 hours as shown in your demonstration. Thank you for your reply. 🙏😊

  • @sanguyen8089
    @sanguyen8089 11 місяців тому

    Tuyệt vời ❤

  • @amandineobone5143
    @amandineobone5143 Рік тому

    🤩

  • @chaudinhhoangbao6743
    @chaudinhhoangbao6743 7 місяців тому +1

    J’ai reussi:) mais je pense que ce gateau manque un peu de sucre. Le gâteau est trè moelleux et parfumé au beurre. Cependant, j'ajoute 50gr de crème fouettée car la pâte est assez sèche. Et j'ajoute 20-30gr de lait frais à la polish. Merci pour votre recette:)

  • @Christofinity
    @Christofinity Рік тому +2

    Thanks for your recipe. I will try it next. What yeast did you use? Active or instant? Also, do you think it's okay to increase the butter as your butter percentage for this recipe is 37.5%. My understanding is brioche should be about 50% butter.

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  Рік тому

      Hi There, I used instant yeast in the recipe. I agree with that but I was trying to make the recipe slightly healthier, lol
      You can definitely add 200 grams butter in total to make it 50% as that will make it super tasty. Kneading time might take longer though so just adjust accordingly
      Thanks and Best of Luck!

    • @Christofinity
      @Christofinity Рік тому

      @@peacefulbaking Thanks for your reply. I'll give it a go and report back. Thank you 😁

  • @jenny3208
    @jenny3208 11 місяців тому

    Hi for the poolish, is it really 50 grams of milk?

  • @herrzara
    @herrzara 2 роки тому +1

    Thanks for sharing your recipe... I was just wondering how much fresh yeast should I use?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому

      Thank you. Fresh yeast you can use 2.5 times instant yeast. Thanks and best of luck with the recipe

    • @herrzara
      @herrzara 2 роки тому

      @@peacefulbaking I'll try making one recipe with instant yeast and another with dry yeast... I suppose there will not be much difference, but thanks for letting me know what the proportion is!

  • @lizbellsmartinezfigueroa6840

    😮

  • @francesrao2720
    @francesrao2720 Рік тому +1

    Dear Peaceful Baking, thank you for sharing! I find t your recipe requires significantly longer fermenting time than all the others. Especially the second fermentation, to triple the size. Usually it's to double the size. Would you kindly advise the reason?
    As my room temperature is almost 30, even using air con, should I change the fermenting time? Anything to pay extra attention to? Thank you.

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  Рік тому +1

      Hi Frances, since your room temperature is that high it will probably take half as much time to ferment. Just trust your bakers insticts !

  • @BabetaBabeta
    @BabetaBabeta Рік тому

    Amazing recipe
    ❤❤❤❤
    Why we used cold milk in the poolish and not warm milk?!
    What is the reason?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  Рік тому

      Hello! Thank you,
      We do not want the temperature of the dough to be too high when we mix the dough because the mixer generates a lot of heat and makes the dough too warm. The dough needs to be colder than 25C when adding the butter otherwise it tends to split from the dough. Thank you

  • @herrzara
    @herrzara 2 роки тому +2

    The recipe came out well, except for two factors- 1. the pan I used was kind of small, so the brioche "spilled" more than it should => what would the best size be?; 2. I had to lower oven temperature and cover the bread with aluminum foil because it was already golden, but not ready after 30 minutes at 180°. Would it be better to bake at 150° for a longer period?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому

      Hi there, you can use a 20cm cake tin. Or you could also reduce the recipe to 3/4th quantity for the tin you are using
      Its possible that your oven is stronger than mine. You can try baking at 165-170 and see if its better. 150 will be too less I think since we want the bread to rise initially as well . Alternatively you can bake for 10 mins at 180 and then reduce it to 165 for the remaining time. Thank you and best of luck

    • @herrzara
      @herrzara 2 роки тому +1

      @@peacefulbaking I'll try again with a 20 cm tin and by progressively diminishing oven temperature. Thanks!

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому

      @@herrzara Amazing!

  • @herrzara
    @herrzara 2 роки тому +1

    Dear Peaceful Baking, could it possible to put the poolish in the fridge after one hour fermenting outside, and then use it 12 hours later for the brioche dough?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому

      You could do that as well but make sure to only leave it out for 30 mins and not one hour otherwise it might over ferment. Thank you

    • @herrzara
      @herrzara 2 роки тому +1

      @@peacefulbaking Thanks, I'll do that and see how it goes!

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому

      @@herrzara best of luck! :)

  • @herrzara
    @herrzara 2 роки тому +1

    Dear Peaceful Baking, I have already followed your recipe twice and the results were positive. But, I still have some doubts because it takes me more than 7 minutes to reach the dough texture needed to introduce the butter, so I don't know if I should speed up the mixture. I have a Kitchen Aid Heavy Duty mixer and usually carry out this phase at speed 4 and once I introduce the butter, I increase the speed to 6 and, sometimes, toward the end, to 8, until the dough acquires a decent texture. This whole process takes me roughly 28 minutes, but according to the video, it should last about 19. Could you please specify what the proper stand mixer speeds should be?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому

      Hi there, 28 minutes of mixing also sound good. Don't go on the specific time but the texture of the dough. Its possible that the flour I was using develops faster. The speeds you suggested sound good. We just want to make sure we get a nice windowpane. This dough is really rich in fats and its important to give it time so don't worry :)

    • @herrzara
      @herrzara 2 роки тому

      @@peacefulbaking Thanks for your prompt response! I have another question- will the dough go awry if it stays 20-22 hours in the fridge during the second fermentation?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому

      @@herrzara I think it should be completely fine. I have used it 24 hours later as well and it works well. Make sure the dough temperature isn't too high in that case when you mix the dough. I would aim for 24-25C. Thank you

  • @wafaabuljubian4216
    @wafaabuljubian4216 Рік тому +1

    What type of flour you used?? Excellent Job 💪💪💪

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  Рік тому

      I used Bread Flour to make the recipe. Anything in the range of 11-13% protein will work well. Thank you

  • @leighg9274
    @leighg9274 6 місяців тому

    What if you have no stand mixer?

  • @olawilkinson2742
    @olawilkinson2742 2 роки тому

    Any recommendations how to bake this in fan oven?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому +1

      You can reduce the heat to 170C/340F but I wouldn't go any lower than that

  • @perlahuber4099
    @perlahuber4099 Рік тому +2

    i just have a question. what is the measurement of your round baking ring? (height and circumference). thank you.

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  Рік тому

      Its a 20cm cake pan, Thank you
      Something like this- www.amazon.com/20cm-Round-Stick-Loose-Base/dp/B000YJ7LFO?th=1

    • @ziadr.d3697
      @ziadr.d3697 Рік тому

      كنت اود طرح نفس السؤال

  • @Ripplelove77
    @Ripplelove77 Рік тому +1

    did you use fresh yeast? can I use instant yeast?

  • @ivylima7290
    @ivylima7290 Рік тому

    Like 1.000😊😊👍🇧🇷

  • @danoul5881
    @danoul5881 Рік тому

    Bonjour faut-il beurré le moule avant d’introduire la brioche et le four doit être préchauffer combien de temps avant s’il vous plaît merci d’avance pour la réponse

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  Рік тому

      Bonjour!
      Oui, s'il vous plaît, beurrez le moule à gâteau. J'aime préchauffer le four pendant 10 minutes à 180C/350F
      Merci bcp

  • @sanjanaacharya411
    @sanjanaacharya411 2 роки тому

    Can we use plain flour instead of bread flour?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому +1

      Hi, Yes Definitely. But the dough might tear if you dont develop it enough so make sure to knead it really well. Thanks

    • @sanjanaacharya411
      @sanjanaacharya411 2 роки тому +1

      @@peacefulbaking thank you so much! It did tear up but next time I'll knead for a longer time and hopefully it'll work as you said😊

  • @harpernoel3348
    @harpernoel3348 Рік тому +1

    Could I make doughnuts with this dough ??

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  Рік тому

      Yes. The recipe works really well for doughnuts. I would keep the size as 60-80 grams each doughnut dough ball. Thank you

  • @norihanghazali73
    @norihanghazali73 2 роки тому

    Why my poolish come out very thick like thick dough ,,any solution pls

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому

      Increase the liquid by 10-15ml and see if that improves it

  • @user_AB2zy4hn8u
    @user_AB2zy4hn8u Рік тому

    🌿🌄🍩🌄🌿

  • @daianegist306
    @daianegist306 Рік тому

    Do you mean 50 ml or 50 g? Liquids are measured by liters and solids by grams. I am asking because I used my cooking scale and measured the milk as 50 grams, as your recipe says, but my polish was dry. Did you really mean grams and not ml? Thank you. I am making it now. I can not wait to taste it.

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  Рік тому

      50 grams is correct as in Bakeries we always measure everything in grams. Yes I do know that liquids are measured in litres but in bakeries we always measure in grams to keep it simple and consistent
      Please increase the liquid to 60 grams and see if that makes it better as it shouldn't be dry
      Thank you

  • @lukelatham8491
    @lukelatham8491 6 місяців тому

    Why is it hard to roll , stretch the dough the dough !?

  • @Meowgirl1434
    @Meowgirl1434 3 роки тому +3

    What size pan?

  • @kadhijasanders
    @kadhijasanders Рік тому

    0:41 what is your average room temp?

  • @szehui1845
    @szehui1845 2 роки тому

    My dough came out lumpy. Why? :( it never looked good since the beginning when I added the polish.

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому

      What exactly is lumpy. Is it too wet or too dry?

    • @intentionallife2090
      @intentionallife2090 2 роки тому

      @@peacefulbaking My dough also came out too wet this time. First time I made the recipe it was ok. Followed the recipe to the letter. What do you think went wrong?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому

      @@intentionallife2090 Sometimes the quality of the flour can differ and some flours don't absorb as much liquids. Sometimes if the dough feels too sticky I add some extra flour as last resort measure. Next time maybe lower the amount of liquids and try again.
      Sometimes the dough absorbs all the liquids if rested on the workbench or chilled overnight as well. Either way its easier to shape the dough when its cold so if it feels too wet try shaping it when its cold.
      Thanks

    • @intentionallife2090
      @intentionallife2090 2 роки тому +1

      @@peacefulbaking thanks! That's what I exactly did. I have observed that not all flours are similar, some develop gluten faster than others. Thanks for the advise!

    • @AnnaNguyenVo
      @AnnaNguyenVo 2 роки тому

      I tried two times and they all came out lumpy too, tear apart easily, not elastic as it should be. Not sure where I did it wrong :(

  • @beatricebecques5713
    @beatricebecques5713 Рік тому

    En français svp merci

  • @firmans5869
    @firmans5869 2 роки тому

    Is the yeast in this recipe can be substitute by sordough?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому +1

      Yes Definitely. Instead of the poolish you can use sourdough starter of the same quantity
      You will have to adjust the proofing time accordingly though based on the strength of the starter. It will definitely take longer to proof but just aim to get it atleast double in first fermentation stage. Thanks

    • @firmans5869
      @firmans5869 2 роки тому +1

      @@peacefulbaking well noted and thank you!

  • @elisaevagarciazuloaga941
    @elisaevagarciazuloaga941 Рік тому

    Español

  • @wannimator
    @wannimator 3 роки тому +1

    Why my poolish using your recipe come out pretty dry? Would you please check your recipe?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  3 роки тому +1

      You can increase milk by 10 Grams. The flour you might be using might have a higher protein content than mine so it tends to absorb more liquids. Thank you

    • @wannimator
      @wannimator 3 роки тому +1

      @@peacefulbaking Thank you very much. I just baked it today. It was delicious indeed. Thanks again for the recipe.

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  3 роки тому +1

      @@wannimator sounds amazing! I am so glad :)

  • @basanthassan5825
    @basanthassan5825 Місяць тому

    With out music please

  • @fannylo1196
    @fannylo1196 2 роки тому

    Only 50gm milk?

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому +1

      Yes. We use Eggs as liquids for making the dough

  • @cookingwithnabia2078
    @cookingwithnabia2078 Рік тому

    Assalam o Alaikum masha Allah great sharing looks absolutely delicious 😋 new friend done please stay connected with me

  • @BossCrunk
    @BossCrunk 3 роки тому +1

    Pouliche.

  • @olawilkinson2742
    @olawilkinson2742 2 роки тому

    I made this and it turned out very dry :(

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому +1

      You might need to knead the dough longer and proof it longer. The dough itself has a lot of eggs and butter so its very unlikely that it should be dry.
      Maybe try again with more kneading time and proofing time and see if the result is better
      Thanks

    • @olawilkinson2742
      @olawilkinson2742 2 роки тому

      @@peacefulbaking I did leave it in the fridg 24h to proof and baked it next day

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому

      @@olawilkinson2742 To be honest with you I am not sure why the bread is dry. This recipe has do much butter and eggs and it shouldn't be dry at all

  • @tercerelias4663
    @tercerelias4663 Рік тому

    Thats not even a poolish. First cuz poolish is actually equal parts of flour and liquid, and a pitch or less of yeast, and it have to settle between 12 or 16 hours.-.

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  Рік тому

      Yes You are right but in enriched breads its better to make a quick poolish in this recipe otherwise the dough gets acidic and doesnt taste sweet. We are fermenting the dough overnight to develop flavor rather than the poolish. What you said works better for lean doughs like baguette, boule. fougasse etc. Anyways try the recipe and see if it works for you

  • @roodyalhaj.8160
    @roodyalhaj.8160 3 роки тому +3

    مو مشكلة حبيبي
    بجرب مرة واتنين واتلاتى
    مو مرة
    مو متل النسوان.
    لحتى مو جرب
    ليش انت حبيبي مو عم تجيبلي ليش لحتى مو جرب
    كتر خير الله
    و كتر خيرك حبيبي
    مو متل النسوان.

    • @roodyalhaj.8160
      @roodyalhaj.8160 3 роки тому +2

      و عم تجيبلي الاجهزة
      هادا اسمو كسل حبيبي لا اكتر ولا اقل حبيبي
      مو مرة بس.

  • @ultimateodyssey1708
    @ultimateodyssey1708 2 роки тому

    I am sorry but this is not poolish because you put lot of yeasts

    • @peacefulbaking
      @peacefulbaking  2 роки тому +1

      Yes you are right. Its a quick poolish. This recipe is from a French baker I worked with. He told me that with brioche a quick polish works better because we are cold fermenting it as well. Anyhow if you don't like the recipe its completely fine but I really like it!

  • @CptnStickyBuds
    @CptnStickyBuds 9 місяців тому

    the sounds are gross and off putting fyi