roxanne rivers Well, it's all in the video. Long story short: in the Italian method the working leg opens to the front before being whipped to 2nd position, while in the Russian method the leg opens directly to 2nd. It takes a while to train your eye to tell the difference. I included on-stage demonstrations of the rarer Russian technique in the video's description, if it helps.
When I was training professionally, we worked on both the Italian method and Russian method of fouette turns, even though our training was Vaganova based. The Italian method, with the grand rond de jambe, really aids in building momentum, which allows for more turns. The Russian method almost felt as if it was stopping this momentum. I would say as well that the Russian fouettes are harder to master. As you can see in this video, even when she is demonstrating the Russian method, her very first fouette included a rond de jambe, almost as if to build her momentum.
My problem is each fouette gives me more and more momentum, till i'm turning so fast that i start going everywhere. Is it a matter of technique or i should try russian?
You could try Russian, but it's important to remember to control your movements whether that be in the Italian or Russian style. When you lack strength and control, that is when things start going out the window. Try practicing the whipping action of the leg, along with the spring up to demi-pointe at the barre; first without the turn and then with, making sure you well placed (knees over toes en plie, hips square and stable, legs well turned out from the hip). Also think about maintaining a strong core throughout, and keeping your shoulders down and well placed to avoid pumping. You should also make sure you are able to perform the releves without slamming down when it's time to plie. If you are controlling the descent from releve, you will have more control overall in the turn.
A fouette turn in the Italian style includes a demi grand rond de jambe, with a plie as the leg extends devant. Then the supporting leg stretches and the foot springs up to demi pointe, as the leg ronds to second. This is the fouette action. The leg is finally brought into passe from second as the turn is performed. In the Russian style, the fouette action includes a sharp developpe, enveloppe action a la seconde, the turn happening as the leg enveloppes to passe.
To everyone commenting that the Italian looks more fluid - it's because this particular dancer executes the Italians much better than her Russian ones. She was also an ABT dancer so she would have been much better at Balanchine technique (which is tough if you're coming from Russian and vice versa.) If you watch good dancers with Russian technique do fouettés you'll love them (watch Svetlana, for example). They're perfect for the sharper, more energetic styles that require precise attack (e.g. Odile's 32, Kitri).
@@radiantonion8615 you're correct! my mind derped. She did attend SAB, which is probably where my mind went alskdjalksdlkajs. Regardless, doesn't change my previous comment :)
In the Russian example, the first fouette she does is in the Italian style (I guess because she was getting herself balanced first?). The rest were Russian
I learned the Italian ones, and i never ever mastered them. I always thought Russian fouettes were easier to control, since i always had problems in anything hip-control related (such as ronde de jambe).
I actually find both extremely beautiful. The italian fouette gives the illusion of a more loose movement. The russian ones look "cleaner". But yes, i prefer the italian ones, aestethically
Thanks for posting - I’ve always preferred (watching; I didn’t have much choice in what to learn) the Russian ballet style to the Western styles but couldn’t pinpoint the differences. So this is really interesting!
I feel like the Italian version is mostly taught (in my experience) I wish my teachers exposed me to more varieties of ways to do things I feel behind everyone else
The italian way of executing the fouettés en tournant is not only more fluid - as in the russian version the foot and the leg are very often almost abruptly open to the second while the line (of the leg and foot) leaves very much to be desired - but it is also, supposedly, the original tecnique.
I know they are much harder to master, but I prefer looking at the Russian fouettes. I don't think I could ever do it and definitely understand the Italian method is more natural to physics and the body. But, I still enjoy the lines of the Russian better.
I would say that Italian method is more difficult because your working leg must open from front to a la seconde very fast. If it isn't fast, then you lose momentum and also might lose your balance. It's additional work, while in Russian method working leg does a lot less movement, it's like open-close-open-close so it's easier. But this is just from my experience, a lot of people in the comments say that Italian fouettes are easier.
@@crescendocdt Gee sorry for my spelling! Was sleepy. I reckon I'd find Russian harder 'cause having a strong turn out in la seconde is hard, opening front first gives me a bit more power/preperation. But really I'm bad at both hehe
The Italian style of fouettes would be harder as it requires more control and strength to rond de jambe from devant to a la seconde than to extend directly to a la seconde.
it’s the leg extension. the italian does a rond de jambe aka extends at the front and moves into second each turn whereas the russian technique is the leg extending only to second each time
why do the ballerinas of the older years cross their feet over in passe so much why isn't it toe to knee...half the foot is crossed over the leg like that is so ugly
It depends on your school/technique. In Vaganova you're actually told to rest your foot in the indentation under your knee, so yes, half of the foot IS supposed to be crossed over the leg.
This is actually how I was taught (I’m 32 and did ballet for 5/6 years) and it’s biomechanically and works better in terms of physics and gravity than toe to knee. Today’s ballerina’s don’t understand what working biomechanically correct feels like, with shoes that fit you like a glove in every way, with no hyperflexion, and that’s why injury is so high. I was taught that way and it’s why I came out without lasting injuries.
i don't see a difference?
roxanne rivers Well, it's all in the video. Long story short: in the Italian method the working leg opens to the front before being whipped to 2nd position, while in the Russian method the leg opens directly to 2nd. It takes a while to train your eye to tell the difference. I included on-stage demonstrations of the rarer Russian technique in the video's description, if it helps.
The russian method doesn't whip the leg frontward - it goes directly into second position (it 'kicks out' to the side almost)
@@noblesetsentimentales I see the difference now
It's the same routine but with the Russian you have to do it while drunk.
What direction the whipping leg extends to initially.
ballet is so beautiful
And painful
@@rizqaaureliafithri7688 Fr lol
I do ballet
When I was training professionally, we worked on both the Italian method and Russian method of fouette turns, even though our training was Vaganova based. The Italian method, with the grand rond de jambe, really aids in building momentum, which allows for more turns. The Russian method almost felt as if it was stopping this momentum. I would say as well that the Russian fouettes are harder to master. As you can see in this video, even when she is demonstrating the Russian method, her very first fouette included a rond de jambe, almost as if to build her momentum.
My problem is each fouette gives me more and more momentum, till i'm turning so fast that i start going everywhere. Is it a matter of technique or i should try russian?
You could try Russian, but it's important to remember to control your movements whether that be in the Italian or Russian style. When you lack strength and control, that is when things start going out the window. Try practicing the whipping action of the leg, along with the spring up to demi-pointe at the barre; first without the turn and then with, making sure you well placed (knees over toes en plie, hips square and stable, legs well turned out from the hip). Also think about maintaining a strong core throughout, and keeping your shoulders down and well placed to avoid pumping. You should also make sure you are able to perform the releves without slamming down when it's time to plie. If you are controlling the descent from releve, you will have more control overall in the turn.
Thanks a lot!!! i'll try those excercises, and focus on strenght.
vaganovaballerina1 wait what is the difference???? I'm a dancer
A fouette turn in the Italian style includes a demi grand rond de jambe, with a plie as the leg extends devant. Then the supporting leg stretches and the foot springs up to demi pointe, as the leg ronds to second. This is the fouette action. The leg is finally brought into passe from second as the turn is performed. In the Russian style, the fouette action includes a sharp developpe, enveloppe action a la seconde, the turn happening as the leg enveloppes to passe.
To everyone commenting that the Italian looks more fluid - it's because this particular dancer executes the Italians much better than her Russian ones. She was also an ABT dancer so she would have been much better at Balanchine technique (which is tough if you're coming from Russian and vice versa.) If you watch good dancers with Russian technique do fouettés you'll love them (watch Svetlana, for example). They're perfect for the sharper, more energetic styles that require precise attack (e.g. Odile's 32, Kitri).
@@LaMC944 That's fair, different people will find different styles more aesthetic! I'm curious what you don't like about them though?
uhhhhhhhhh Merrill was City Ballet..
@@radiantonion8615 you're correct! my mind derped. She did attend SAB, which is probably where my mind went alskdjalksdlkajs. Regardless, doesn't change my previous comment :)
In the Russian example, the first fouette she does is in the Italian style (I guess because she was getting herself balanced first?). The rest were Russian
I learned the Italian ones, and i never ever mastered them. I always thought Russian fouettes were easier to control, since i always had problems in anything hip-control related (such as ronde de jambe).
alecsia96 me too actually but I've always preferred the look of Italian fouettes
I actually find both extremely beautiful. The italian fouette gives the illusion of a more loose movement. The russian ones look "cleaner". But yes, i prefer the italian ones, aestethically
Whoa really? For me the Russian ones are wayyy harder, because the plié is shorter and so it’s easier to lose balance and run out of momentum
Thanks for posting - I’ve always preferred (watching; I didn’t have much choice in what to learn) the Russian ballet style to the Western styles but couldn’t pinpoint the differences. So this is really interesting!
I feel like the Italian version is mostly taught (in my experience) I wish my teachers exposed me to more varieties of ways to do things I feel behind everyone else
I had to watch it 3 times to see 😂 I think the first fouetté looks more fluid and pleasing to the eye. The second one looks too regimented and stiff.
I don't know if it's because she has more practice with them, but the Italian one looks more beautiful to my eye.
Yes, the Italian are more aesthetically pleasing with the rond de jambe action of the working leg.
Thank you for the video🙏
Italian looks more aesthetically pleasing.
I mean, I kind of prefer the Russian one.
The italian way of executing the fouettés en tournant is not only more fluid - as in the russian version the foot and the leg are very often almost abruptly open to the second while the line (of the leg and foot) leaves very much to be desired - but it is also, supposedly, the original tecnique.
I must add that, to my eye, Elena Yevseyeva is executing her fouetté tours more the Italian than the Russian way.
I know they are much harder to master, but I prefer looking at the Russian fouettes. I don't think I could ever do it and definitely understand the Italian method is more natural to physics and the body. But, I still enjoy the lines of the Russian better.
0:10
Which one is the italian? The first one?
Yes the first one is Italian. The second one is russian
So this is where they got that tt filter
👏👏👏
which are. generaaly more difficult?
I would say that Italian method is more difficult because your working leg must open from front to a la seconde very fast. If it isn't fast, then you lose momentum and also might lose your balance. It's additional work, while in Russian method working leg does a lot less movement, it's like open-close-open-close so it's easier. But this is just from my experience, a lot of people in the comments say that Italian fouettes are easier.
@@crescendocdt Gee sorry for my spelling! Was sleepy. I reckon I'd find Russian harder 'cause having a strong turn out in la seconde is hard, opening front first gives me a bit more power/preperation. But really I'm bad at both hehe
The Italian style of fouettes would be harder as it requires more control and strength to rond de jambe from devant to a la seconde than to extend directly to a la seconde.
I wish. ;-;
How old is this video geez
TheBecky&GeraldShow What does it matter?
@@noblesetsentimentales it would be interesting to know!
These types of dance demonstration videos were common in the late 80s/early 90s.
because it's not as jerky and smoother
Italian style is more useful to figure skating
I think the Italian ones are way easier but I train Russian soo
I don’t see a difference...
Really??
I don't see it either.
it’s the leg extension. the italian does a rond de jambe aka extends at the front and moves into second each turn whereas the russian technique is the leg extending only to second each time
thx ik kan hem nu
Italian is better
Her passé was low af
why do the ballerinas of the older years cross their feet over in passe so much why isn't it toe to knee...half the foot is crossed over the leg like that is so ugly
Because it goes higher!
It depends on your school/technique. In Vaganova you're actually told to rest your foot in the indentation under your knee, so yes, half of the foot IS supposed to be crossed over the leg.
This is actually how I was taught (I’m 32 and did ballet for 5/6 years) and it’s biomechanically and works better in terms of physics and gravity than toe to knee. Today’s ballerina’s don’t understand what working biomechanically correct feels like, with shoes that fit you like a glove in every way, with no hyperflexion, and that’s why injury is so high. I was taught that way and it’s why I came out without lasting injuries.
I've never seen an en dedans fouette, does anyone have a video of that??
Here, I made this video: ua-cam.com/video/GEQPQDoJRa8/v-deo.html
This is wonderful, thank you!