The Epilogue of Adventure | Sonic Heroes
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- Опубліковано 28 жов 2019
- After developing Sonic Adventure 2 and seeing the Dreamcast off, Sonic Team decided to do something completely new for Sonic's big debut on other consoles. Did this risky decision, in the long run, kill the Sonic franchise? ... Well. Watch this exhaustive video to find out what I think on that.
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Here's my Twitter, if ever you wish to see what I'm up to: / jebtube - Ігри
I didn't get the Chaotix as a kid, but now I find "welp, gotta keep the lights on in this dump" to be the most compelling motivation of all four teams.
I suffered the same thing when I played with the Chaotix when I played the game, and it took me some time to understand them and easily got past when I finally understood grand metropolis.
but then they would just work for eggman. look at all the stuff he builds and doesnt need to pay for
I say that Sonic having “too many characters” is a good thing, because you know what they say, THE MORE THE MERRIER!
Brought me some kinda funny but terrible flashbacks lmao
Ha good one
CONGRATULATIONS
You gave many people
PTSD
GET. OUT.
@@BlackClaw2 no
"people ask where the Babylon Rogues are"
don't do that to me. Don't remind me of our loss
Zavok gets to come back all the time but not Jet, Storm, or Wave, this is some heresy I tell ya.
DJ Sakmaster he was speaking for himself lol.
@@TechnicSky that's why I deleted the comment
They're in the IDW comics
Even Mighty and Ray came back but these guys don't
Omochao in SA2: actually helpful, optional to listen to, not even obnoxious, doesn’t deserve the abuse
Omochao in SH: *omochao with a vengeance*
I forgot Omochao in sa2
Only really know of his existence because he was mildly annoying in metal harbour.
I remember trying to find cheats or codes or something to shut omochao up in sonic heroes.
Appears once.
Generations Omochao
@@superhedgehog6447 I forgot he was in gens
"Follow me" is themed for every member of Team rose actually! The song is talking about their passions for what they are chasing in the story.
Amy - for sonic
Cream - for cheese
Big - for froggy
Fair point, though I'd argue it is much more noticeable towards Amy's personal attraction and desire to be with Sonic
Thank you for addressing the overreactions to the control. I've been trying to explain for years that you have free reign to control the right character depending on the section, but it seems the average person would rather use Sonic everywhere and blame it on the game when they die. Anyway great video!
I don’t understand people who get pissy at not only being able to play as sonic only. Literally play 90% of other sonic games where sonic is the only playable character. Or two Sonics.
It's even more ironic since the main complaint these days is that you can't play as anyone but Sonic in modern games, yet they don't wanna utilize other characters at the same time in a game where that's pretty much the main theme.
I see what you mean. Don't get me wrong, the game is slippery at times, and power characters could slide in the wrong direction during combat, but the slipperiness seems to be blown WAY out of proportions.
Probably the best thing to come out of this game was the union of Team Dark. Their odd pairing from the beginning developed from a union of convenience where their personal goals was the important focus: Rouge seeking Eggman treasure, Omega wanting revenge and Shadow wanting answers; to a group dynamic that would last through the many face lifts Sega would try to put the Sonic games through. I feel they truly showed their best in Sonic 06 (yes I’m serious) where they came to the realization that they will always face the odds together and that they trust one another more than anyone else (EVEN the likes of Sonic) and that the comics delved into this especially in the Shadow arc in Sonic Universe.
It certainly helps counter off the “loner” vibe Shadow was being forced with that at times I roll my eyes at. Should he ever look for any help he always knows who to look to, and vice versa.
I’m mostly happy that Sonic Team still attempts to keep this dynamic a thing even with the likes of Sonic Forces in Episode Shadow.
For once, Forces got it right on Team Dark, Amy and even Knuckles. Too bad they were all treated poorly since Free Riders.
I think "Sonic Heroes" is a way of distinguishing Metal Sonic from Meatbag Sonic. After all, the letter was written by Metal.
By the way, as a kid I was REALLY impressed by Eggman printing a movie. More than robots or flying cars.
metalsonic printing a fucking mp4 with backgroundtext
LPFan What if he WAS the letter?
The true answer to boomers asking "how to print a gif" in Yahoo Answers
@@technoguyx Is Dr. Eggman a boomer? 👴
i literally never realised the letter was written by metal sonic and not eggman, oops...
Sonic Heroes isn't babyish. Everything we have gotten since Colours is babyish. Would rather have "let's show that creep the true superpower of teamwork" over "man up tails" or "baldy McNosehair" or "best boss beating ever"
"Look at all those Eggman's robots"
"SONIC; HELP ME!!"
Saying that out loud sounds stupid when you think about it but I see your point
Sonic Colors is LAUGHABLY Overrated
@@jerrisatyourwindow Your point of view sounds stupid. Because it's better to have a cheesy, but played straight plot, than some god-awful cringe-inducing Teen Titans Go fuckery that hammers your head with its putrid jokes and horrid characters.
I feel that in regards to the voice casts, Ryan Drummond and Jason Griffith are both excellent fits for Sonic. They both give Sonic his signature free-spirited hero mixed with cocky attitude vibe, while knowing when to get serious, in their own ways.
Drummond comes off as a younger teenage Sonic (fitting considering Sonic is 15 in this game), a hero that loves to have fun while protecting the people, even if he often rushes headfirst into the unknown to do so. He's not afraid to speak his mind, and knows that he can find a way to come out on top no matter the circumstance.
Griffith (in particular Unleashed and Black Knight's direction) fits more as a late teens Sonic who's a little more matured and humbled due to all of his experiences, both good and bad, but still holds a very justified cockiness about himself. He'll rush into danger without a second thought just as he always has, because he always does what he thinks is right.
I really enjoy both, when I see an image of Sonic I hear both of them, I think they are both great fits. The latest ones not so much but they fit well with the new and more childish image of Sonic.
@@justanotheryoutubechannel Roger fits a young adult Sonic who is sarcastic but has strong morals and has a bit more maturity and experience then he's had before at least by Frontiers I've heard a theory that he's 18 years old by now hence his deeper voice which makes sense as I think Sonic should be allowed to grow much like Marvel did for Spider-Man in his early years honestly I'm cautiously excited for Sonic Frontiers and I'm interested to see how it goes
1:08:16
I always tell people that and even some people who call themselves serious Sonic fans don't pick up on it like seriously that plot element completely flew past The Completionist and SomeCallMeJohnny and multiple others. I was even and the first one to let the Geek Critique know about this plot element and he thanked me for it and he said something like that overall does make Neo Metal Sonic a lot cooler.
im glad im not the only one who noticed shadows slight nods agreeing with rouge's rant XD like "you tell em ma!"
I noticed that as a kid and thought "Must be an Animation error" xD
6:20 Why can't the internet think like that
I hit he like button at that part
Preach. And it doesn't help that SEGA themselves are throwing fuel into that circlejerk fire...
Because some people on the internet simply don't need worldbuilding, even if you don't like that. Stop living in a bubble and accept that it's YOUR (and other people at times) opinion. Not a fact.
@@marx4538 How about those people (YOU included) just shut the fuck up already and go play something else like Mario or Pikmin, if world building or other characters are such a poison to them ? Because it is a FACT that ever since 2010, Sonic narratives have gone down the shitter along with gameplay, since they can't even get Sonic right to begin with. Don't want worldbuilding ? Play Pong or Tetris, why the hell are you forcing your Nintendrone mentality into Sonic ?
@Marx Just take a look at Sonic Adventure. You clearly have the option to play as Sonic and only Sonic. You didn't have to play the other characters, just to express a negative opinion about them, but you did it anyway you prick.
I think, judging by the comments, this stance on Sonic Heroes has been needed for a long time here on UA-cam. Left a well deserved like for being a truly selling video about my favourite, and first, Sonic game.
Me to
Couldn’t have said it better myself. This game was amazing. Now I gotta take my ps2 out the closet lol
Glad to see another one who started with it. I would buy a proper remake of this game over any Sonic game, now if there is a better story and dialogue, less cringe and plot holes, a more explained MS backstory and how he turned Neo + a proper Super Team with Super Tails and Hyper Knuckles, with an extra Shadow AI you can switch to. Noy I would be paying whatever for that. But Team Sonic has been but a disappointment lately.
@@adamsatanaels9413 Regarding Metal, isn't it implied that Eggman was working on upgrading him into a new formidable form, but he eventually overthrew him? I mean, that seemed natural to assume.
I moreso consider Sonic Battle to be the end of the Adventure era. The story feels just like an Adventure game.
actually it ended in the chao garden
Black Knight to me.
Ashley White What? That was the next gen Jason Griffith era. Black knight isn’t even a contender.
@@ashleywhite8888 For me Black Knight is the end of The Second Dark Age, starting with Shadow.
@@Gnidel bruh
the only dark age of sonic began in 2010 and it's still going on
I’ve really enjoyed your take on this series for a lot of reasons, but the one above all is your continuing point that the many colorful characters are what used to give the Sonic series its identity, and even the worse stories were made engaging just by seeing all these personalities play off of each other.
Sonic Heroes holds a special place in my heart because it was the last game that I feel really tried to utilize the entire cast it had introduced up to that point. Everyone had a place, and the newly introduced characters slotted in so well that a new player would be surprised to hear that they hadn’t been there from the beginning.
Sonic Heroes gave us a lot of interactions that truly gave us a feel for how these characters would work into the larger universe. Establishing the Chaotix as a detective agency that is equal parts money-grubbing and charming really sets aside a whole new perspective on the world that the games don’t utilize enough. Prior to Heroes, Big the Cat had only been used in one isolated story but now we got to see how he could work as a recurring character. Omega filled in the spot on Team Dark that Eggman had left behind, making it so that the team overall could be more heroic without losing their vibe.
Going back to Big for a second, it’s a real shame what’s happened to him. I won’t lie, he’s my favorite character in this series. Like you said in the beginning of this video, back during this time, there was a place for the more goofy characters in the series, they didn’t all have to be cool. And I liked Big because he was so unconcerned with the darker world around him. Now he’s barely ever used and when he is, it’s as a meme. Cream has a similar fate, except she’s just never used. She hasn’t reached meme status...yet. The only cutesy character still appearing somewhat consistently is Charmy, and it’s because the Chaotix are kind of a package deal. But as seen in Team Sonic Racing, even that seems to be on its way out.
Anyway, I just wanted to talk about the cast real quick because your videos have done them such justice. I love how even when you were hating on Big’s gameplay in SA1 you took the time to mention that he’s actually a good character. I like how you went into detail with Cream and Omega here as the newcomers. I just really like your approach.
Only Omega was a true newcomer for Sonic Heroes, as Cream was playable in Sonic Advance 2. Still because of how underused Team Chaotix were prior to Sonic Heroes, they felt like new characters. I have to disagree with you about Big, Pontac & Graff chose to turn Sonic into a goofy character rather than use Big for that purpose starting in 2010. It's unfortunate that Sonic hasn't been depicted as cool in the past 9 years at least in the games. It's also unfortunate that Cream hasn't really been used since Sonic Generations save for cashgrab Mobile Phone games.
WaterKirby1994 I’m aware that Cream appeared in Sonic Advance 2. Even if I didn’t already know he said it in the video. I’m saying that Sonic Heroes was the first time we got to hear her voice, the first time she was in 3D, the first time she had genuine interactions with other characters that weren’t told through short text-based cutscenes.
Sonic isn’t a goofy character now. It’s very clear that they’re still trying to make him come off as cool. They’re just failing at it. That just makes him kinda cringy, not goofy in the ways that Big can be. Pairing up the current incarnation of Sonic with Big for a game’s story would still have two very different personalities interacting.
On the topic of Big, it really drives me up a wall that Team Sonic Racing has now outright portrayed him as a slow-witted buffoon. While not exactly an analyst, Big was never supposed to be the "big dumb dumb" character he seems to be now, Big was always supposed to just be a simple man living a simple, disconnected life. It honestly frustrates me that the series gets even the simplest characters wrong now. You know, on top of how some of these characters (Big, Knuckles, Shadow) seem to exist solely for meme material. It's incredibly disingenuous.
But yeah, thank you! I really wanted to highlight how the characters of Sonic were a big part of what made the series so appealing. Even in the Classic days, I think it's impossible to deny that the series was so appealing because people loved seeing Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, or Robotnik. They don't often get that credit.
They gave up on making Sonic cool the moment they decided to make him tell bad jokes instead of actually being a character who could be taken seriously. There was no reason for the changes that were made to the series for the 2010s decade. This really has been the worst decade for the series & it still probably isn't over yet.
We're living in an era where the long term fans understand the series & its characters far better than Sega & Sonic Team. I want this trollish era of Sonic's existence to hurry up & end already. The 2010s have been a huge betrayal to everything the series was.
TheBlackHoodedGamer what I found odd about Team Sonic Racing’s characterization of Big was that it was a bit inconsistent. Like, sometimes he was just portrayed as the dumb one, being confused about simple situations, and other times he was actually used well. Remember how he was the only one to realize that Dodonpa was a good guy when everyone else was doubting him because Big slowed down enough to realize that the Wisps were actually helping him of their own volition rather than being captured? It’s simple, but it’s good characterization of him. So it’s just overall inconsistent in its portrayal.
I hope your videos reach some people who have just been parroting back the “Sonic’s annoying friends” argument without actually playing the games. Especially since IGN’s review of TSR actually brought that argument back.
>Has a strong love for the Adventure Era Sonic games
>Also loves the Ratchet and Clank series
>Has a Kingdom Hearts poster
I can't believe I didn't discover your channel earlier. Consider me subscribed.
I've always considered "What I'm Made Of" to be Metal Sonic's theme song.
It actually is his theme. The point of the song that Metal Sonic wants to show Sonic that he has become better and stronger than him aka ''What He Is Made Of''
I prefer to it as neo metal sonic's theme, stardust speedway bad future just fits metal sonic's character better imo
I mean, possibly? "But when it's just too much to take, you sneak up from behind" seems, to me, like Sonic commenting on Metal lurking in the Shadows (heh) the whole time trying to "take his (and co.) energy".
@@redblack8766 possibly. Honestly i like to picture this song as representing how both of them see each other. That sneak up from behind comment could also sorta be a reference to how no matter how far ahead Metal was in the games or shows Sonic always somehow shot past him.
It can be applied to both Sonic and Metal Sonic. Like how the 3rd verse of this games main theme is from Metals PoV.
7:45
That little explosion made my day
Saurus lmao
In my opinion, i feel like the "What i'm made off" Song is partialy sung by Metal Sonic, yes that's all i wanted to say
Mike the Wizard with the lyrics it wouldn’t make sense if anything it would be sung by sonic
@@SHAWNJX I said partialy, not entirely
Honestly I feel like it's entirely. It's often considered to be Metal Sonic's theme, and the song itself describes someone who was once a lot weaker coming into their own. Like a really aggressive version of "Believe in Myself".
I think what Shawn said might have actually been an agreement with your initial point - that it wouldn't make sense coming from Sonic's point of view. Only from Metal's.
@@DekuOfPower Nah i don't think he agreed, he said "if anything it's sung by Sonic"
@@SnesySnas you're right I misread it
“The too many characters, sonic’s stupid friends retort can eat shit and die. In that order.”
That fucking earned my subscription, because finally someone said what I always felt deep down outloud. Hell yeah I miss the Babylon Rogues
This might only be me and very few others, but out of the three voice actors, two actually sound how sonic looks, and the other is Roger Craig Smith.
*CORRECT!*
Looking at Adventure era Sonic, Ryan's voice fits that model. Look at 4kids Sonic, different design and development and Jason Griffith for the most part got it right with his voice. (Griffiths performances in Black Knight and especially Unleashed can't be understated.)
Roger Craig Smith just has a voice that's too old for Sonic. Smith is talented but look at the guy they got to voice Sonic in the recent movie, that guy was awesome.
@@Segastar1 I'm going to be generous and say that Roger Craig Smith is a good Sonic VA. Having said that, a good performance is hard to see when the script he's been forced to work with is absolute shit.
@@smashmaster521 I'll admit in the Sonic Boom cartoon, i don't mind Smith that much and i can see he has potential. Its just tough that since he's become Sonic's new VA, the scripts have somehow gotten worse so he hasn't had time to shine. You make a good point
@@Segastar1 Well, blame SEGA and the morons they hired to write Sonic in the 2010s, not Roger Craig Smith. I think he does a fine Sonic, but he just hasn't been allowed to voice the true Sonic we had from Adventure to Black Knight like his predecessors were.
Sonic heroes was honestly good but some people just really didn’t appreciate it at that time at least.
kai plague I must confess to being one of those
57:19 A *true man's* battle cry.
Okay, more seriously now, watching this does make me wish I was able to truly experience this game when I was younger. I had the chance, but the disc I got was already scratched up and couldn't continue after the character select (assuming it would even make it to it), and we didn't remember which store we got it from, so we couldn't just go back to that same one.
52:08 “I won’t go down that easy!”
* Robotnik then proceeds to go down very easily
Sonic Heroes is where I considered the peak of the OG cast's performances. In fact looking back I think all of them are the definitive versions. Minus William Corkery as Tails (still hate that voice) I liked everyone else. While I do prefer some later voices like Rouge's current VA and Cream's for that matter and even Mike Pollock as Eggman (he's practically the character now), everyone else I found the best version of themselves. It's all the more reason I consider the Drummond era the best era of Sonic, especially in regards to the relevancy of the cast.
Each game had the cast act proactively and were playable just about every game, once the 4kids VAs came their playability dwindled with every game after Sonic 2006 either being reduced to spin-offs or one and off proactivity. (or generally flanderizing them in some cases) It's painful to say Chronicles was the last game that had any of them do anything as a main cast that isn't Black Knight where they play parts of characters in King Arthur's story or 2006 which was a complete mess (other problems than just glitches). The only game I don't like in this era is Sonic Battle because of the repetitive combat and how it flanderizes the cast, especially Amy and Knuckles.
Loved your analogy on how every character doesn't have to be a Shadow to be likable, its why I enjoy some of the simpler characters like Team Sonic and Rose. I enjoy the parallel of Amy/Cream to Sonic/Tails, I just wish this could've been used more rather than the later games neglecting Cream.
From a technical standpoint while Heroes as a lot of problems I can't bring myself to dislike it. There are some good ideas here that I feel could've been expanded on in future games. I loved the gameplay, running through loops in speed segments and the general mobility of speed characters.. I just wish the Fly character had better control and didn't stiffly fall when their meter runs out (which I feel it does too fast) not to mention how slow they are and the fact they have to carry everyone while in motion.
In terms of the Speed characters being too slippery complaint, I don't agree with entirely. In fact I mainly think it just applies to Sonic and Shadow, Amy and Espio control just fine, granted this could be because of their slower speed, but I feed they don't get anywhere near the acceleration as the other two. Its why I consider Amy and Espio the superior speed types among other reasons. However I feel this is only the case when coming across steep or crowded platforming segments, otherwise you are given plenty of room to run around or change formations before proceeding further (though I do wish you could change in mid air at times)
With your bonus stage complaint I actually don't mind them like most people. All you have to do is switch to the power formation and it becomes less of a hassle to deal with the stiff control. The power type is less prone to getting stuck up walls, and using Team Rose just makes it better because their stages are the shortest.
I really enjoyed your analysis over that Team Sonic vs Team Rose scene I couldn't have said it better myself, its partially why Amy is my favorite character and I think people grossly exaggerate that scene. I can see why people will find her pursuit of Sonic annoying, but people only ever focus on that one scene as a highlight to her "abusive behavior" when really I think its poor context. While it could be argued Amy does so to gain respect from the experience she's gained, it also makes sense because Team Rose thought Sonic had taken Chocola and Froggy, even Big and Cream don't object to fighting them and question them. That one scene also shouldn't invalidate Amy's interactions with her teammates or her general sass through the rest of the game.
I also could make the argument that for the Speed character's slipperiness when platforming if used just right their floaty jumps (especially after movement) can help in some situations as holding down the jump button will allow them to stay in the air for a bit, then use the tornado for quick boost and hopefully land a homing attack safely across obstacles (doesn't work for Espio though) or in Amy's case straight up hover across gaps. (very useful if situational and her tornado grants extra air time)
"While I do prefer some later voices like Rouge's current VA and Cream's for that matter and even Mike Pollock as Eggman (he's practically the character now)"
I disagree. Karen Stressman's Rouge comes off too much as slutty, and does Cream even exist anymore ? And sorry, but screw Pollock, seniority does NOT mean quality. I liked him for the most part, but ever since Colors, he's just phoning it in to do his stupid tryhard to be hammy sitcom skit. He ceased to be Eggman the moment he embraced the stupid ass sitcom vibe of Pontaff and Boom. Plus, he's not really that great to talk to on the Internet, unless you're brown nosing him.
@@DanieleMulas-up7np I really only see Karen Strassmen's voice being "slutty" when it comes to more recent titles like Forces and especially Team Sonic Racing. But I enjoyed her in Generations. Admittedly now Lani Manella did have a really good Rouge in SA2.
I think for the sitcom vibe boils down to the direction and writing rather than performance. Its the same problem I have with Roger Craig Smith as Sonic, his voice is fine just not the direction he's given. I also think Eggman being overplayed as too incompetent in later games has really hurt the character (though he still gives good performances) it almost makes me miss having different antagonists other than Eggman being used in the same vein as a boxstandard Bowser final boss.
I mean Cream does exist in the IDW comics taking place after Forces. But in the games not really.
@@Surgemaster2012 Nahhhh, she was always sounding slutty ever since Free Riders and Generations, perhaps even more in these two. Never liked her take as a whole.
I agree, but BECAUSE of the writing and direction, the performance suffers as a byproduct. If you listen to Pollock in ShTH, 06 or Unleashed, he sounds so much more serious and even aggressive. Whereas, from Colors onwards, while still sounding the same as ever, Pollock has this more ironic, casual, at times hysterical tone, like he's never means anything he says and is more concerned about doing a comedy skit. That pathetic "I will get fat from eating your black hearts" rant from SLoW is the perfect example : he sounds too goofy and pantomimed, never like he really means it. Then compare to how he sounded during the Egg Dragoon fight in Unleashed, how much he sounds like he's savouring Sonic's impeding fall to death.
And no, Roger Craig Smith's Sonic voice is HORRIBLE. Now, if they intended for him to sound like an irritating tryhard dudebro with sinusitis, and to be as unbearable to listen as possible for the sake of "SoUnDiNg OlDeR HOOBA DOOBA", he's doing a great job at that. But his voice fucking sucks man, worst miscast for Sonic ever.
And I don't even count that trash. IDW Sonic is major league garbage.
Yeah, i really enjoyed the OG cast romance too. I'm enjoying the new cast too for the most part. While Ryan Drummond is my favorite Sonic, i don't think Roger Craig Smith has done a bad job as Sonic at all. From the very beginning i like his Sonic voice. Now that i think about it i think the Sonic x cast is my least favorite cast so far.
@@xsilnv The new cast is fucking garbage for the most part, except for a few exceptions that have so little involvement, they don't matter, and RCS was a major miscast as Sonic. He has no energy, no excitement, he sounds way too old, way too casual or just like he doesn't give a fuck about anything going on around him, except his dumb jokes. What even is the point of making Sonic sound like a college jock dudebro with sinusitis, and making him a childish, ever bored, lazy dipshit who trash talks anyone and never takes anything seriously ? He sucks as Sonic. Plain and simple. And pretending he was ever good to begin with is just....delusional.
"Not a bad job at all" ?
ua-cam.com/video/32FGrO3Wo6w/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/pV6EjtSkTbs/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/32FGrO3Wo6w/v-deo.html
What is this ? A kindergartener whining over not getting his candy ?
Now I'm not gonna pretend that the 4Kids cast was all good, but there were certainly much better voices or improvements over time than the current ones. And Griffith post-06 was absolutely better than *lAwL MCnOsEhAiR iZ pHaT aNd DuMb CuZ I dEfEaT hIm ALl tEh TiEm HOOBA DOOBA*
Can we get sonic back at McDonald's? 😂
I want to see Shadow Basketball again
@@dabluepittoo-aqua4213 I still have that one
Rouge and Amy Tennis. XD
I played sonic heroes at mcdonalds it was my first sonic game
@@dabluepittoo-aqua4213 I want that low-budget commercial from Pakistan again
This was my first 3d sonic game and one of my favourite games as a kid. I was genuinely surprised to find out it wasn't very well liked among fans.
This was an awesome review and it helped me remember everything I loved about the game as a kid, while showing me a critical side to it that child me wasn't smart enough to pick up on
I’m so upset we never get to see metal sonic tapped into again. Sure he’s in generations but that didn’t feel grand. I’ve always loved rival battles in all of my favorite forms of media. And metal sonic is my all time favorite sonic villain for the rival reason.
Great video though. I’m glad I ain’t the only one that likes sonic heroes.
6:31 THANK YOU! Seriously, if they just wanna play the same game over and over then just play the Genesis games on Steam while the rest of us move on.
Not done with the video quite yet but coming off of TGC's harsh thrasing of the game, I'm loving the positive vibes in this so far!
One thing to mention relating to the combat, though: I found myself enjoying the game FAR more once I started mixing in the speed characters' Roll/Slide/Rocket Accel into the mix. Using the roll and simply ramming into one or two simple Egg Pawn enemies lets you defeat them faster than a homing attack while still carrying far more speed forward than the Power characters' punch, and Rocket Acceling creates the same Wind effect that the Blue Tornado does only its activated far faster and can hit multiple foes at once. These moves are far more unwieldly to use but are also far faster if you learn to master them, its fantastic risk/reward stuff that I also feel applies to the Power character's attacks. The Fire Dunk is accurate and keeps you safe in the air but can only be used twice and is rather slow, while the ground punches hit fast and hard but put you RIGHT in the middle of danger and can be unwieldly to aim.
This game gets far too much flack for even having combat to begin with when it handles combat in such a perfectly Sonic-y way. Its similar to Black Knight where its all about constantly being on the move and thinking quickly far more than it is about memorizing button combos or creating large strings or whatever. It's simple and snappy.
Than agian since no reads discriptions or thumbnails he wasn't bashing the game he was just giving his own thoughts on the game since after all its a retrospective not a review
I honestly think black knight has a better concept for soniccombat than this game
@@lpfan4491 Absolutely, but that was also a game fully built around Sonic combat and not much else. For a game trying to blend combat with high speed platforming and hazard avoiding, I think Heroes does it quite well.
I never actually managed to get through the first stage in heroes while I played through shadow,the game considered way more tedious, multiple times actually. maybe I am just a scrub for sliding off plattforms the whole time,but I did not really have fun with the game and the combat
@@lpfan4491 I'm playing through it now and I think it's just OK. Glad there's a fanbase for this game like others in the franchise, but I don't get the love for the gameplay. Do appreciate the story for what it is
Geez my dude, the more I watch your videos, the more I'm just surprised how good it all is. Everything looks great, lots of many little facets and details like I mentioned IRL, great production, whether video quality or editing, it's all wonderful. It really gets ya thinking about things one never would have before, or at least not me, so while I already loved the adventure series (and your videos on them), it wasn't the same for heroes since I wasn't into the game, so the way you put things, it makes me go "Hey... maybe I didn't give the game enough credit." at the very least, but at its best, it makes the game look pretty dang cool. I don't know how you do it nor how you function so different from other... simple... youtuber reviews, but it's admirable. Thanks for having me on board even if just a bit, it was an honor.
This game was made in a generation where shoehorning combat was a platformer staple. However Heroes is in my opinion, the only game to get this stereotype right.
Pac Man World 3, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger and suchlike have enemy health bars and combos for the sake of it. Button bashing is the only way through, and it quickly becomes monotonous. Sonic Heroes has 3 distinct playstyles on the fly, all of which excel at different enemies. Each playstyle can completely allievate the health bar on an enemy, meaning you should only worry about the health bars if enemies are designed to by tanks, or if you're simply attacking with the wrong formation/character.
54:55 I miss when Shadow had more emotions than brooding and angsty in the 4kids era and "Grr I hate friendship" in the modern era.
Shadow isn't "I hate friendship" he is supposed to be the "bad boy of your friend group" just like Levi
@@Antonio-is2cn Boom Shadow sure is. And its more his tone than anything else. He's just super serious and not "I'm the coolest!" Like in SA2.
I did see mentioned somewhere that even in the main canon he doesn't consider Rouge and Omega his friends, but I can't provide proof for that one. Knowing how Izuka is with this canon it wouldn't be surprising.
@@thelastwindwaker7948 sadly that was part of the Sega mandates. Shadow basically is not allowed to have friends which I assume is why even a great writer like Ian Flynn has to make Shadow an unlikable jerk. Those mandates ruined the series like by making it so only Male Hedgehogs can have Super forms now....sorry Knuckles
YES. Great video. Sonic Heroes is severely underrated, and I really hope more people in the fandom watch this and think more about the game than just a "repetitive and glitchy mess" like they tend to do. It's so much more than just that.
This video really put joy in my heart. I love someone putting what I've had in my head for years onto paper. Sonic heroes was my first sonic game, and while I never beat it I always had fun with it! There is definitely something about the adventure titles that the current games sadly lack.
this video made my day truly, thank you so much!
Man, I absolutely love Team Chaotix, I wish they were actually used and seen together in the newer games.
I love how you baited the "True Ending" for this video series
Since you mentioned the Japanese story translation, I wanted to mention another cutscene that I think actually fits a lot better than the English version.
During the scene where the Chaotix gang beat up Eggman for saying he'll pay them once he conquers the world, the lines in Japanese are a little different, and I find it entertaining how Eggman seems more scummy, and the team seem a lot more in sync.
Eggman:「このワシが世界の支配者になった暁には命の恩人として世界の半分をやってもよい」 "Once I become the ruler of the world, I'll give you half of it as my saviors!"
Vector: 「テメー、出世払いとはいい度胸じゃねぇか」 "You scum, offering payment after you succeed takes some balls!"
Espio: 「覚悟！」 "Ready!"
Charmy: 「しけーい！」 "Death Penalty!"
I like that in the original, Eggman doesn't even technically offer money, but just a share in his kingdom. And the response from Espio and Charmy seems almost as if it's a rehearsed response to being scammed - as if this has happened before.
How sega allowed balls
A LOT of lines in Sonic games make much more sense in the Japanese version. From "All's well that ends well", to "I wonder why it self destructed".
I wonder if that was a reference to the first Dragon Quest, since the main villain of that game, the Dragonlord, offers that to the hero of that game, and if you click yes, it's either be Game Over in the Famicom/NES original, or you wake up at an inn as if it were a bad dream in the remakes.
Oh man gamesins saying it shoulda killed egg man never was more real
I've always been partial to Jason Griffith as Sonic. Ryan Drummond's still great though!
Yeah it really sucks we've been stuck with Roger Craig Smith's unfitting voice for the past 9 years now. Lisa Ortiz was the best Amy I feel. I miss the days when Sonic wasn't treated as a cringey joke character & we actually got awesome stories. Also the "Just Sonic" mentality never should have entered the main series games. The pain of being a Sonic Fan even long after Sega & Sonic team betrayed everything that the series was.
@@WaterKirby1994 I don't hate Roger Craig Smith's performance, I just grew up during the Jason Griffith era. Specifically, I watched a lot of Sonic X as a kid. My main problem with the casting is that, for the longest time, they couldn't get a good voice for Tails. Amy Palant was where they nailed it. I actually appreciate the 4kids voice cast taking over, because that meant we got Mike Pollock, one of my favorite voice actors of all time. I hate how this franchise I love so much has become an absolute laughingstock to so many people.
@@SnoozeYaLose It's only a laughing stock because of the direction the series took starting in 2010. Sonic was turned into a lame joke character by Colors & he's stayed that way for the entire decade with the series no longer taking itself seriously. The entire 2010s decade has proven to be the worst decade of Sonic's career so far.
@@WaterKirby1994 People thought the 2000s was the dark age due to Sonic 06 but really the 2010s is the dark age because their hasn't been any good stories since unleashed, characters don't take anything seriously anymore. There is really just 2 good sonic games this decade. Colors and generations, all the other games is from mix bag to TERRIBLE.
@@superhedgehog6447 Colors was never good, just different when it was 1st released. Then Sonic Team saw fit to keep giving us more games like Colors in the form of Lost Worlds & Forces. I'm personally of the opinion that the only truly good game this decade has been Mania & that's because it was made by passionate people who actually knew what they were doing.
Personally I consider the 4kids Era as being a Silver Age for the series in more way than 1. While with the 2010s games we've sunk lower than a Mud Age for the series. It's unfortunate things had to turn out this way. We should have just said 06 was a glitchy unfinished mess & moved on with more Adventure games rather than complaining about it. The moment we complained critics went & used the characters & story as scapegoats.
Also you're forgetting the great story that Black Knight had in 2009 after Unleashed in the last year of the 4kids Era.
5:45 - 6:35
This beatiful bastard speakin the truth up in here
PsychoticSaiyan10 Holy shit, Philip Defranco good to see you man.
I really miss playing as other characters. I especially miss Whacking people with my giant Hammer 😢
But yeah, bugs aside, Sonic Heroes is my favorite Sonic game, it was beautiful to look at, had super memorable stages, and let me play as Amy Rouge and Espio lol
"We used to beat people up for saying things like that"
I literally just came across your comment after that popped up in the video. Lol.
Annnnd I've finished the video! Let me tell you man. My thoughts when it comes to Heroes and really... most of Sonic's late 6th Gen run has always been mixed and blurry. I didn't even play Heroes till a few years ago, and I still haven't played Shadow the Hedgehog.
So despite my love for the Adventure Era, its weird to think that I wasn't there during the period where it started to sloooowly fade out.
In my eyes, the Adventure Era did live long past games like SA2 or even 06. But the spirit of the main two Adventure games definitely took a turn with Heroes. And despite that, I've never had any ill will with the game. It still feels like a Sonic game (same can't be said for many other certain games *cough*), and for that reason I don't hold a ton of grudge to it. That and I enjoyed most of the game despite its differences and a few of its biggest negatives.
Probably the game with the most neutral feeling from me as a whole of the series.
The thing I like about Heroes is that it doesnt try to be funny every five seconds to make the stupid 5 year olds laugh, but decides to be campy and corny that'll be "cringy" but in a cute way. It's less like Sonic Colors trying so hard to be funny that it kills the basic plot (to the point where you have to boast that the writers of *Happy Tree Friends* of all shows wrote the comedy which explains why it's not funny at all) and more like an homage ot sorts to cheesy 90s cartoons in a way. I prefer the more serious story telling over this, but I won't deny that Heroes makes me smile *a lot.*
Heroes was always an overlooked gem to me. It may have faults, but it's a very fun game that feels great to master, even if it's a bit on the slippery side. It and SA2 were two of three Sonic games I bothered trying to A-Rank so that speaks volumes
Wait, they got the writers of Happy Tree Friends to write Sonic Colors!?
@@shinyneko8136 yup, explains why it isnt very funny and uses the same joke throughout the entire game to me, lol
Goken don’t hate me but I like HTF
@@rankrodent2772 you have an opinion?! BAD!
Nah it's fine, its humor is just very represented in Colors which is why I pointed out why I didnt like both, lol
@@shinyneko8136 Not just Colors, but all post 2010 console games like Gens, Lost World, and Forces.
57:18 The sound that comes out of my mouth when i fully a- ranked both Adventure 1 and 2, and then realising this game exists
I’m a little (8 months late) but Adventure 1 doesn’t have ranks lol. You probably meant emblems.
It would make sense for Shadow to survive his fall. He is immortal, immune to bullets, diseases and old age, and quite the power house. But still having memory loss from sustaining physical trauma creates a a nice little ceiling we can all respect.
Never before have I heard anyone sum up my thoughts on this game to a tee. The visual flair, character design, colour pallette, music, stage design, narrative structure, voice acting and writing is, in my opinion, peak sonic. A fine send off to the adventure/advance era. It just doesn't get better than this. You have earned a subscriber today sir, can't wait to see what you do next!
Just finished binge watching all 3 videos. Thank you for these. It made me realise what made me a fan of Sonic to begin with
Now I'm just imagining Team Rose isn't easy mode cause their cutesy and stuff but because Cream the Rabbit decimates any foes who dare stand in her way.
My favorite team was always Team ?????????
This was the second Sonic game I played as a kid. I loved it so much, especially since I had the Double Dash disc that included the demo disc with Heroes on it. I was soooooo excited to play it! I played it at home, at friend's houses, and even the place I got my hair cut. I think the art style also holds up to today really well. It's definitely not the best entry, but a solid one.
Sonic Heroes was my first 3D Sonic title. Your retrospective on it gave me some new insight into one of my favorite games of all time. Thanks and great video, TheBlackHoodedGamed
"All's well that ends well, right?" That got me good.
The city's been f*yay*king DESTROYED!
Good on you for being accurate on how much the glitches affect gameplay. Very few reviewers look for the middle ground when describing such issues.
Sonic Heroes was always more of a mixed bag for me, even back when I first played it in 2004. I loved it as a kid but as I got older and noticed the glitches and just how slippery the speed characters felt, it really did detract some points from the game. But I would never say that the game was complete trash, absolutely not. I really did like that this game tried something different with it's gameplay even if it didn't make sense (Cue Cream being able to hold Amy and Big when she must weigh like what? 30-40 lbs? LOL). But yeah, silliness aside, the gameplay was quite engaging though I am glad I'm not the only who noticed the slippery controls of the speed characters and how this game was the beginning of Sonic never feeling precise like he did in the Adventure games and it's a shame because his movement in those games was perfect and still is today in my honest opinion. Though I find it funny that I'm not the only one who really abused the flying character, seriously they were so overpowered and used in a petty way, you could mash through certain bosses and sections of certain levels with quite ease when used effectively lol.
I also didn't mind them toning down a bit in the theme and making things more light-hearted. The level design totally was harkening back to the classic genesis days and I though the translation worked quite well. As far as Shadow went, I'm torn with him. I do think that he should've stayed dead just to preserve his legacy but on the other hand, I was happy to see him in this game when I first played the game and while clone thing still annoys me because it really didn't go anywhere (excluding Shadow the Hedgehog's solo game for obvious reasons...), it just felt like a copout to say the character could never truly die. But I do agree that his portrayal in this game was not edgy and was still somewhat thoughtful. I had no idea about the Japanese script so thank you for including that because after seeing it, it makes Shadow's premise a lot better and with better reasoning.
I also don't mind that you included a section about your thoughts on the voice acting, never apologize for that because in games like this that are character heavy, voice acting is important. That said I agree with everything you said about the actors. The Dreamcast/Adventure-era actors were just... So special. Everyone was at their best in this game (excluding Tails... no hate towards his actor, it just didn't sound that good imo). I was not aware that Ryan Drummond is still active and is passionate about Sonic enough to interact with fans, that's quite cool to see. He was truly the best voice for Sonic and 15+ years later and I still feel the same. Sonic right after Pokemon was the franchise that showed me that voice acting can really make or break a character so it's always nice to hear people talk about this kind of stuff.
Agree 100% with the music. True it's not as bombastic as Sonic Adventure or stylish as Sonic Adventure 2's but it was still great and I find myself listening to the music every now and then. Definitely love the themes for Mystic Mansion, Ocean Palace, Rail Canyon, and Final Fortress. The only thing I wish that Sonic Heroes had was an ice level but then again, with the slippery speed physics, that probably would've been more frustrating to deal with lol.
Really even though the game was a bit rough in some areas, I'm still glad it exists. I would love to see a Sonic Heroes 2 that brought in more teams (Hell I'd love to play as Team Hooligan lol) but as it stands, Sonic Heroes is just more of a neutral game. Not amazing but not bad neither. It's enjoyable when in the right mood to play and it does feel like it was a nice send but bittersweet send off from the console era of Adventure before the descent happened... But yeah, great video and also, beautiful use of the "Egg Rocket Zone" theme, I'm so glad to see more people like that theme, it's just so freaking good haha.
Cream is just insanely strong for a young girl & capable of utilizing that strength when in flight. I agree that Sonic Heroes is more of a neutral for the series.
@@WaterKirby1994 Eh lol I suppose. It's just Big must weigh like 200-250 lbs lol
Your comment is a hour long for me sense I read slow JESE
This is my favorite Sonic game (Alongside Mania) for a reason. It doesn't deserve the hate it gets. It deserves another chance with new eyes. It doesn't try going "Boost to win" or "BBBE".
It's Sonic and his friends at their best...no longer afraid of anything.
Also 1:14:40 is kinda depressing. Unlike others, I see Metal as a sympathetic villian. Many of his defeats are caused by his own creator's decisions (ex: electric walls). He's most likely terrified of being replaced, especially since Mecha Sonic came out after him. However, Metal stayed loyal to build up power. The robot grew insane and even started believing that he was the real Sonic. . .but that dream didn't last. Glimpses of his desperate mind trying to grow again can be seen in Sonic Free Riders & Sonic Rivals 2. And all of his troubles have been caused by Sonic The Hedgehog. He's grown to loath and fear him, but never wants to give up, just so he could "be" the real Sonic at last.
Wait this game is hated? I thought it was mostly just there, yet still fun, despite how neutral it felt at times. It wasn't a bad game like the overwhelming majority of 2010s Decade Sonic games have been, it just is caught in the shadow of the greats.
Its polarizing not hated there's a big difference
There's actually a theory saying that Metal wasn't supposed to kidnap Amy (or Rosy, I guess) in Sonic CD, but he did anyway isnce he wanted to be loved by her and further making him feel like he was Sonic
May I ask what you mean by "boost to win"?
Sonic without character's and world development would be like Megaman without Robot masters.
Sonic Heroes was my first 3D sonic game and will forever hold a place in my childhood. Whether or not the game was good mattered not.
Many things about Heroes remains purely nostalgic to me and i still love the game to this day.
In truth, videos talking critically yet realistically about the game, like this video, are necessary because everything else seems... biased. This however, is balanced.
Thanks for reinvigorating my love for the old sonic Jeb. I completely forgot and disowned it not too long ago due to the release of Mania and Forces.
26:07 Shadow was so ahead of his time. Back in 2003/2004 he was already d a b b i n g .
I *never* caught those continuity notes and I love those so much.
I really loved the section about the voice cast. The characters are really the thing that keeps me coming back to Sonic, and I just adore all the actors behind them--they always bring such personality. I've always favored the 4Kids cast myself; Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity is, in my opinion, the best performance they've ever put on. Not in cutscenes, but the gameplay dialogue just captures them so well, from writing to acting.
The Adventure cast is truly special, and Sonic Heroes being one of my first Sonic games was truly a blessing just because of how well these characters are portrayed. With all its flaws (and I definitely had a lower opinion of it when I was younger, even), if I hadn't been exposed to those twelve characters, I wouldn't have gotten so into the series.
Actually, Maekawa said Shadow was never meant to die. In SA2, you can even see a hint towards the Black Arms' future appearance on a sign next to Shadow's pod that says "WARNING: ASTRONOMERS ARE CONCLUDING THAT MONSTROUSBLACKS", hinting towards Black Doom returning to Earth in order to get Shadow and the Emeralds.
Aesthetically, this is my favourite 3-D Sonic game. It somehow is both a throwback to the past and also new, vibrant, and unique.
My first Sonic game.
I've never even played a sonic game, yet I watched the whole thing. Hope this gets the audience it deserves!
200% agree with the voice acting. Voices fit with the characters quite well
Excellent analysis here! Near enough everything in this video, I agree with.
Sonic heroes is a very polarising game to some, and with such a series like sonic that is saying something. But to me, Heroes marked an era of which it was technically my generation of sonic (the time, not the game lol) told in one sonic game. What I mean is that it tended to stick out more and define what game my friends who happened to be sonic fans were playing. It’s the one sonic game that all of my friends from primary school (pretty much elementary school in the uk) were talking about, we all had a lot of fun discussing our favourite parts of this game and what our favourite characters were since we were able to play as them whenever we liked within the game, and sure enough, we all agreed that the characters in sonic were integral to the world, hell there was one friend in my class who said big was his favourite character, thats gotta mean something right?
Anyway, sonic heroes definitely doesn’t get the right amount of praise it deserves, but at the same time doesn’t get enough criticism as it deserves. Which is weird to say because this is one of sonic’s most popular outings. Really hoping in the future that sega goes back to this style of world building where we see the characters doing things that impact the story, and make sonic’s narrative’s still mean something despite some bigheads online who say that “his friends don’t matter”.
I think the Dream-Cast has excellently chosen voices for the Sonic characters, but I still prefer the 4kids cast, in particular Jason Griffith's more emotional take on Sonic and intense version of Shadow, and Lisa Ortiz's Amy is the most accurate take on the character in my opinion.
Jason Griffith is the definitive Sonic voice to me. But when comparing him with Ryan Drummond, I like to think of Ryan as like a younger Sonic since his version was more “high-pitched”, which gives a sense of youth in the character. And over the years Sonic matured and that stood out as Jason’s portrayal of him. I’m just gonna ignore the current one though. I don’t think he’s “bad” but it’s definitely the lesser of the first two.
Good to know i'm not the only one.
@Neptune Purple-Heart That's cool. I still think Ryan has a really good take on Sonic, and I wouldn't mind seeing him return.
Ryan suited the more lighthearted and upbeat voice work and had a very youthful and playful tone to him that he could do a good enough job of bringing down to a more serious note when required like in the final story of SAD2, but my issue is he always sounded like he was acting. Jason, while sometimes not as perfectly suited, actually sounded in character to me, he very rarely sounded like he was reading a script and his intonation was a lot more varied and appropriate to the contexts surrounding Sonic in-game, which is why when I think of Sonic it's Griffith's voice I hear in general, for a long time I even remembered him voicing in Heroes even though he never did because it was the go-to voice in my mind.
@@wag-wankenobi1626 Glad someone knows Ryan isn't static and can be more serious by just looking at the last scene of SA2, but I disagree about Jason, he sounds like he is reading a script because of his robotic inflation (which thankfully mellowed down in later games), and I just couldn't un-hear once I noticed it
Thanks for making these videos. They put what I had been thinking for years into words perfectly. I thought that I didn't really like Sonic anymore and that I was just holding on to distant memories that held no value. But watching these has made me go back to these games again for the first time in years. It's like uncovering a photo album of a vacation with your family that you thought you had only dreamed about. I miss this series, and I wish that the internet would stop peeing on its grave. Thank you for giving it the respect it deserves.
I checked this channel over and over again for new content but the wait was worth it!!! Keep up the great work!!!
42:14 Love that line!! Team chaotix is one of my favorite sonic characters!
How can team chaotix be one of your favourite characters when it's made up of three characters?
Ridley! Wins!
Ridley : 57:20
I found my old save for this game on my ps2 and somehow had played for 70 hours without beating any of the stories or even getting close lol
6:13
"Seriously, the 'too many characters/Sonic's stupid friends' retort can go eat shit AND die. _In_ that order."
Aaand, like-
7:45
It's subtle, but that explosion edit killed me- 😂🤙
10:35
"All three are drastically different, each with their own shortcomings. But they all have one goal as a priority. To kick ass and pay rent."
As for the gang calling themselves Sonic Heroes in-universe, I honestly believed it was mockery from both sides. Here's the thing: In the Japanese dub, Eggman says "Sonikku domo yo", meaning something in the vein of "Sonic and company". According to Jisho dictionary, "domo" in this context refers to the second person plural, and it implies the speaker considers themselves of higher status than the other side, which fits Eggman's character.
I assume that they wanted to convey that cocky attitude of Eggman in the translation, so they made it "Guess what, 'Sonic Heroes'". I see many people voicing annoyance/cringe at this line, but honestly, I always viewed it as sarcasm on Eggman's (Metal Sonic, you know) part. It's sorta like when you refer to someone as "your majesty" when you believe they're being conceited.
Following that, I took "Because we're Sonic Heroes" as Sonic playing along and returning the mockery. Though to be fair, this can't be the case in Japanese, so I'll say this is one of the things the English dub has over the original.
I agree with so much here. For my problems with Heroes, it has a lot going for it. The gameplay, while different, is enjoyable and intuitive with depth to the mechanics. I love the look of all the levels and how they add to the world. The soundtrack is still legendary, and I really enjoy a lot of the character interactions within each team; Team Chaotix are my favorite characters in the game. And the English voice actors really stepped up their game here, making for a great sendoff to them (even though they shouldn't have been sent off in the first place, god dammit).
But that said, I do have severe problems with Heroes. I still can't forgive the game for how loosey-goosey it plays with the characters. Heroes has a bad tendency to divorce characters from their context or even fundamental characters, and treat them like cardboard cutouts. Knuckles' entire life purpose and character-defining duty is just thrown out the window with no explanation. And his sudden friendship with Sonic, while I enjoyed it for what it was, felt too sudden. Similar with Rouge. I think her opening up to and working with others more post-SA2 makes a lot of sense. But as it's done in Heroes where she's suddenly all teamwork-minded feels way too abrupt.
Shadow's amnesia feels like a giant non-sequitur to his arc from SA2 that totally derails his character. I want Shadow to be brought back as I think he adds a lot to the cast, but not like this, as it feels so haphazard and disrespectful. His bond with Team Dark is great, but that doesn't require putting a giant roadblock in his character by having him forget all of the meaningful stuff in SA2.
Tails, while not too bad, feels like he's regressed back to the tag-along sidekick before his development. He really doesn't take charge or plan their next move like he did in SA2. Amy, while I love that she's more brave and headstrong post-SA2, again, it feels too haphazard. As now she suddenly has superpowers like the rest of the characters without explanation, even though it's already been established she is more grounded in her capabilities. And also her crush on Sonic was taken way too far, to the point of literally assaulting him, demanding he marry her. I really don't like that.
The whole structure of the game where each team goes through the same locations with the same bosses in the same orders really makes the whole story feel super cheap and artificial, in a way that I think fundamentally undermines the whole experience.
The worst part of the story to me though, are the Team battles. Most of the cutscenes and reasons for them fighting are so-beyond contrived and cringy that they're just a flat-out insult to the characters themselves. Especially with Sonic vs Dark, where what should be a shocked, but peaceful reunion is instead forced to be a poorly-justified dick-measuring contest, with dialogue trying to reason with them awkwardly placed into the fight itself. The only Team battle cutscene I thought was good was Rose vs Chaotix where the context was there, and the misunderstanding made sense. And also it was really funny.
My issue with Heroes' story isn't that it's more simple. It's that it's just plain bad, and honestly an insult to what came before. Treating its characters like cheap plastic toys of themselves, where nothing has to matter (in spite of Maekawa's attempts to salvage what he could in this game). All because Heroes was decided to be a frankly cynical attempt to "broaden the appeal" of the series. Something which has historically meant bad news for game franchises (Resident Evil 5 & 6, Halo 4 & 5, every Silent Hill after 4).
I really appreciate that you took the time to highlight everything this game does right, as I do think Heroes is underappreciated in a lot of ways. But at the same time, I think it has to be said just how much damage this game did to the Sonic characters and stories, and how it negatively influenced future games (Shadow's amnesia, and setting the precedent of cardboard cutout characters, and more or less ignoring prior games' events or developments). Sorry for the comment essay, but great video nonetheless, and I really look forward to your future projects! :)
I read the comment, enjoyed reading it, but I must say it reads like a novel.
'Ey, no problem. If I make an essay video, I expect essay responses, right?
I will say that half of what you said about the story I agree with but don't find a major deal, and the other half I guess we simply have to disagree on. As stated in the video, I think the game's narrative suffers from the Game>Story ideology quite a bit. Hence my issues with Knuckles' unexplained abandonment of the Master Emerald, Shadow's poor reunion with Team Sonic, and the generally rushed feeling of certain plot points that you know would have been better otherwise. Where I disagree, though, is that the story is insulting towards what came before, and I also don't see how the characters are necessarily cardboard cut-outs other than the fact that the depth of SA2's plot is not present. A real insult to me would be Tails cowering in the presence of Chaos 0, or Shadow, after regaining all his memories, going out of his way to be a dick to the equally dickish Sonic at every turn. I also don't think there's anything sudden or haphazard about Rouge teaming up with Shadow & Omega to take down the mutual foe of Eggman, nor do I think Amy is bizarrely out-of-character (although I do understand why not everyone will like it.) I always had the impression, with her old moniker of "Rosy the Rascal" and her theme song from SA1, that she was intended to be kinda crazy, and it's not like she truly wishes to **kill** Sonic either. Personally speaking, I took it as her showing him how competent she can be rather than her attempting to send him to the hospital. As for other character battles that weren't Sonic vs Dark, I addressed why I thought their ridiculousness was fine within the video. Within the parameters given, I think they did a fine job, albeit with problems of its own that I must bring up. I certainly wouldn't judge the game's story based on what later games did either, as I don't think that's entirely fair to this game on its own merits. Which is why I'm okay with Shadow having amnesia... for this game, and this game only. Hypothetically, it could've been an interesting scenario where he started anew, but was still looking for answers, which could lead him to find out even more about his past than he would have if he weren't seeking it... of course, we all know how that ended up.
All in all, if I had to give the story a tier, it'd be B. Not great, but I don't think it has to be. For a metric, SA2 would be S, and Forces would be E. Take that as you will.
@@crashingbasher7376 Even if I dislike their stories, and they aren't the kind of gameplay I want to see in Sonic, I did find Colors and Generations to be a blast to play.
Yeah Birth by sleep mixed it up better with the different world orders and you can see the impact each character make on the world.
That’d be cool if they did the same thing to give some levels some visual differences like the power gone out in a certain area of metropolis.
Are we just not gonna talk about the bitchin bat cry he did at 57:18?? Had me crackin up for a long while!
Outstanding documentary, witty editing and it is extremely entertaining! Loved your perspective and now I know a lot more about this game that I've always liked but never felt it was that good or interesting outside of the soundtrack.
Great stuff!
57:18 This my friends, is the first recorded occurrence of the voice of God itself.
26:07 When you ask why Shadow is alive.
Sonic Heroes was my very first Sonic game! Way back then, I thought the game was just great and didn't really think anything much more of that. Your analysis video made me realize how glitchy, unfair and sometimes tedious some aspects of the game can be... but it also made me realize a lot of stuff I never noticed as a kid, like the character interactions and the story. You really made me appreciate the game on a whole new level and I might actually replay the game sometime soon (I'll try to stay clear from the PC version ^^)
I also think that Ryan Drummond captured Sonic's additude the best and it's a shame the entire cast got replaced by the 4kids dub :/
Great video and keep the good work!
After watching multiple reviews/retrospectives that bashed the game or made it sound mediocre at best, this is definitely a breath of fresh air!
I definitely enjoyed this review/retrospective!
Ryan's voice was definitely the best for Sonic.
you know i wasnt ready for a one hour sonic heroes video when i saw it on my recommended, but i really enjoyed it
I love this. I like video essays like these, they're just chill and I enjoy putting my full attention into it. Thank you!
I just watched all three Adventure era videos, now I'm watching your older ones. I literally feel anticipation for the next one and can't believe I may have to wait several months. Take your time, make the best video you can. You're doing a wonderful and I can't wait to see/hear more.
26:08 Wait, City Escape won awards in iconography? Why didn't I know about that piece of Sonic history?
34:36 Gosh, that scene really is excellent. Really fun interactions and a funny misunderstanding.
Great video, friend!!!
Hey man, your video is great and well worth the time spent! It was insightful, personal and funny. Great job!
It really bothers me how people treat SA1 and 2 as the holy grail of old 3D sonic games but lump in heroes with Shadow and 06 as "Just another bad one". I think if Heroes ever got the chance for a sequel you could make something amazing. You have the joy of multiple playable characters and gameplay styles without stretching them too thin or making them too different from one another.
-Give each team a few more unique abilities
-Actually give them different levels to travel through from each other
-More teams to play with (babylons, silver blaze and metal etc.)
-Tighten up the control
-Keep the level design similar as it's one of it's best design elements of the game (imo)
Boom Heroes 2 would be great. I do have quiet a bit of bias for this game as it's the first 3D sonic I played at a young age but I genuinely believe it's an underrated gem of the franchise that did alot right and deserves another chance.
I mean, it’s not like the hate towards Shadow & 06 isn’t unwarranted. And I say that as someone who likes 06 to some degree.
Oh those games deserve it no doubt. I meant that despite it's quality, Heroes doesn't get treated as a good game because it came out right before those 2.
This game had my childhood on lock. I remember refusing to go outside to a block party in order to try beating this game.
Hey, it's me again now that I'm back finishing this video. Just wanted to say I'm so glad you love Ryan Drummond and most of the original voice cast of the adventure era because I couldn't agree more. Your example of just looking at a picture of Sonic and hearing that youthful, energetic voice coming out of him is exactly how I feel about his voice, too. Hoping I get to meet him if he comes back to Sonic Revolution next year!
18:33 Right here it is very important to mention Sonic's basic gameplay design. The point isn't to just go fast. The point is to go fast through the obstacles laid before you as fast as possible. The faster you beat the enemies, the faster you can progress, and the more points you earn.
The change in the point combo system from SA2 shows this too. No longer are your combo points cashed in the monent you touch the ground, rather a timer is started which resets with each defeated enemy, encouraging the player to combo together multiple seperate enemy encounters as quickly as they can.
Just watched the three of these back to back to back. You made a fantastic series here about 3 of my favorite sonic games.
47:06
Hot damn that Shadow line still gives Me chills.
I wish I could write a paper like this.
You’re really bloody awesome.
Just finished watching all of your Sonic critique videos and I must say they're all really great and well explained, even if I somewhat disagree at times I can see exactly where you're coming from. Fantastic videos.
While Sonic Adventure 2 is the most beloved Sonic game, Heroes is probably my favorite childhood game, because I enjoyed it enough that I didn't mind the fact that it was among the few games I had at the time.
Hey, I just want to say that while I don't have the time to fully watch and appreciate this video at the moment, I really admire your script work and pace in your edits! You've clearly spent a lot of time structuring and refining what you'll be saying, or at least thinking about it a decent amount, and are making your points clear through simple and strong cuts.
I know that may sound kind of random but I see so many small channels that try to take on the similar "video essay" style of some larger critics and it often comes across sloppy or forced. The tone set in this video of sincere, informative discussion that's occasionally laced with light-hearted small quips is very appealing to me and I'd like to watch more when I get the time. You seem very passionate about what you're saying without coming off as obnoxious or cocky which is really nice.
Uh yeah I know that's probably a weird comment to get but whatever, just wanted to say I enjoy what I'm seeing! Keep up the good work.