Dawn of War 2 is best Dawn of War and the Dark Angels deserve another chance at being a video game protagonist chapter. Also Isador Akios is a Poindexter. Also also the graphic for Underhive Wars is bugged and incorrect. The person responsible has been handed in to the regimental commissar. Okay I'm off to paint my Death Korps, enjoy the video and thanks for watching my fellow 40k nerds ❤
I was a tester on Space Marine and can confirm that the devs loved the game! They unfortunately knew their studio was doomed before it was released (thanks to the old THQ publisher thinking it was going to fail when released around the same time as Gear of War and sinking too much of their funds into that dumb draw tablet) but at least they were able to add as much content as possible. The horde mode was especially fun to work on since it was the last thing that was implemented. They wanted it to have legs and be actually hard so they would send us a build a daily with tweaks. They asked for a lot of feedback and wanted it to take our best testers all day to beat it a single time. I am happy to say that I was on that team that beat the final wave, equipped as always with my trusty Plasma Cannon. For the Emperor!
Exterminatus mode is so so much fun to play on and it was really hard to clear all stages, but I did it in the end. Thanks for your great work! And even the Dreadnought dlc is amazing in the PvP mode! Another little side story was I remember Space Marine wasnt intialally support Pentium D CPUs at launch but I wanted to play the game so much and contacted the support for it, and after they released an update so players with older spec can play! I still remember the care the devs had the joy they brought me till this day.
i wish relic added the rpg elements they were talking about in all the previews prior to release into space marine. Think the game was still great though.
I’d have put DoW 1 Dark Crusade in S tier. The campaign, the introduction of the Necrons and Tau, it’s easily my favourite version of the original game.
Dave you are living the dream, getting paid to talk about 40k and hanging out with everyone's favorite Keeper of Firearms and artillery, keep it up dude
@@jmgonzales7701 compared to turn based or just videogames in general? Turn based strategy gives players more minute control over every detail, but real time strategy is faster paced, and it's entertaining watching dozens of units massacre the enemy. Both RTS and TBS are just satisfying to play for gamers that like to think strategically. The first Dawn of War is an excellent RTS btw, and a good starting point if you've never played one before.
Mechanicus deserved to be in S tier for the soundtrack alone but the game was actually S too imo and the fact that they made the tech priests feel less human than the Necrons was a perfect touch of vibe for Warhammer 40k.
for me, Dark Crusade is the best DoW game. it added something new, besides new races ofc, and i think it was really good at what it did. i never played DoW 2 much but i never heard great things about them
To me, DoW2 is really about how much you enjoy playing against other players. In pvp skirmish, DoW2 was tighter and felt like it kept the players focused on the battle but if you wanted a campaign or focused on playing against AI DoW1 is the better experience.
@@jakemonkey7 from what I remember, DoW2 was more focused on smaller squads rather than a more broad army etc. I never played DoW2 multilayer so I don't know if that side of the game is better. Ofc, visually DoW2 is superior and it's gameplay is nice, but I just preferred the overall experience Dark Crusade provided. Soulstorm was also good but I think it fell short of Dark Crusade for me. Not 100% sure why though. Haven't played it in years and when I did play it, I didn't play it much compared to Dark Crusade so maybe I should give it another chance
DoW2 actually felt A LOT like they balanced it with 5th edition tabletop feel in mind, but with adding some CoH mechanics (like firing arches for heavy weapons). Flamers in the tabletop ignored cover - in DoW2 they dealt additional damage against targets in cover. Tanks had different sides to them and and it mattered towards the damage calculation. It's also wasn't possible to wreck tanks without the anti-tank weapon just like in the current tabletop. Some of the things that first appeared in DoW2 migrated to the tabletop (that's my theory, could be s coincidence). For example, assault marines could deal damage with their jumps in the video game - and in the tabletop, hammer of wrath rule appeared. And currently almost every unit has some sort of the active ability, pretty much like on DoW1/2. So I personally liked DoW2 much more because at the very same time I first started playing the 5th edition 40k, and the general feelings of the tabletop was there. Also it felt a lot more visceral, as the pace was much faster, and you had to be more precise with our actions. DoW1 and DLCs are awesome, but it would be safe to say that they prioritized in-game balance over the codex authenticity - tactical marines being basically tactical and devastator units, tau crisis being almost like a walker type unit instead of mobile suit squad, the list goes on. To me, the only bad thing about the DoW2 was the fact that it was almost like a reimaining for the mostly players, who couldn't follow the evolution of Relic design philosophy by playing both DoW and CoH. They should have make DoW2 a little closer to the CoH (it has many DoW2 mechanics AND the base building/building capturing).
@@MrFiremagnet maybe? I wouldn't know tbh as I've never played tabletop. But tbf, they are games and game balance is important so if DoW1 is more balanced then imo, it's better
I think that it could be an S-tier game once it gets the typical post-launch Owlcat treatment. I also think A-tier is totally fair at this point, though. As he said, it’s a really great game for either CRPG fans and/or WH fans. It just has Owlcat’s typical “college math professor” progression system and it becomes marginally thinner in the final act. To me, those just hold it back at 8/10 rather than the 9 it could be. I also love the game, but I agree with Dave’s criticisms. I’m no stranger to complex CRPG progression, either - I love IWD1 & 2, PoE2: Deadfire, Fallout 1, etc. However, Owlcat games make classic CRPG progression systems seem simple by comparison, which isn’t necessarily a compliment. That being said, I would never call Owlcat’s progression design straight up bad. They just *way* overthink everything compared to their peers IMO.
I generally agree with most of these picks (Final Liberation is such an underrated gem!), but I'm definitely a lot warmer on the Battlefleet Gothic Armada games. I would honestly consider the first to be an A and the second an S.
imagine a game like space marine set in horus heresy era where you can choose either loyalist or herertic side with its own story that would be the best selling Warhammer game
As sketchy as Fire Warrior was, there is one thing it deserves praise for... how it portrayed the bolter. It felt like a weapon of pure destruction rather than just an oversized assault rifle.
Yeah it drives me nuts seeing bolters portrayed as just battle rifles but shaped different. Darktide did a good job of it too. Space Marine 2, not so much
Small correction: Last Stand wasn't introduced with Retribution, it was before Chaos Rising. It was used both as a competiion for Relic (the first group of people to beat it won a graphics card), and to tease the main antagonists for the next DLC.
Rock solid list, wonderful vid. I only dissent on 2 points: Darktide's OST is something that should be experienced in game and pushes it up to an S tier game for me. And Rogue Trader's devs tinker on their games for years after their release. The critiscism about the skill tree is 100% legit, it's definitely something they can improve, and they probably will.
100% agreed on Darktide's OST, easily one of the best videogame soundtracks I've heard, if not the best, as far as both quality and immersiveness; even outside of the game, it's worth listening to. I have my own issues with the game that mean I can't in good conscious push it to S tier (not quite yet anyways), but man, when you're in game and Immortal Imperium or Imperial Advance starts playing, phew, that really gets the blood pumping alright!
Darktide is definitely S Tier, the atmosphere, graphics, soundtrack and gameplay in combination is really exceptional. Actually it's arguably the best game on this entire list due to just how immersive it feels to play.
One of my favourite 40k experiences is the Men of War assault squad 2 mod. Really represents the carnage of what an actual 40k battlefiend might feel like. Recommend!
@@IrregularDave One of the best 40k experience indeed! High level of tactical realism with wide variety of units using DoW2 models for the most part, i only wish the author had left the vanilla maps of the game, his custom maps are really mid...
Fire Warrior was my introduction as well. It was such a weird game. But....I loved it strangely enough. I knew nothing of Warhammer, but the world felt so dark interesting. Now I'm reading Gaunt's Ghosts and I'm getting more fun out of the universe. I'm super excited for Space Marine 2.
The thing I liked most about Fire Warrior was how it portrayed the Boltgun. It was big, heavy, and genuinely felt like it fired miniature rocket propelled grenades. It doesn't line up with other versions, but it's stuck in my memory.
Never played the board game and kinda new to all the warhammer 40k lore. But i feel like i've been missing out. Now i am playing Rogue Trader and im soo hooked. Only 40k game i played befor Rogue Trader was Dawn of war 1 and 2 as a kid and loved them.
I'm loving this video, my only Warhammer exposure has been 4+ years of hearing my friend talk about the lore followed by downloading Tacticus which is A-Tier.
I really appreciate how much detail and effort you put into this video. I loved the table top game as a kid but have really had a tough time finding a quality video game translation of that feeling. It feels like Warhammer tries to cover every style of game except their own turn-based table top one 😂
Ambitious list but plays it very safe to satisfy the masses. Battlesector, Sanctus Reach, Battlefleet Armada 2 and Relics of War should be rated a lot higher!
Dawn of War 1 and 2, Space Marine and Rogue Trader are my personal favourites from the 40k Universe. I sunk 124 hours into Rogue Trader in 3 weeks... Space Marine and DOW2 are some of the only games I've ever played for a second time after completing them
Shootas, Blood & Teef was an absolute blast for me and i personally would put it somewhere between A and B Tier. Probably A, because i am a huge Fan of the Greenskins in Warhammer Fantasy and 40k. And whereas i went absolutely ham on Darktide before and on Release (Got my ogryn to level 30 during preoder beta, before crafting materials were even a thing), the rose tinted glasses came off rather hard for me personally. The mentioned lack of any meaningful story and more importantly, my absolute displeasure with the gacha crafting system, that still hasn't been properly adressed (at least for me), were two of the main factors that made me put the game on ice. Haven't played since March 22, 2023...personally i would put the game between B and C Tier in it's current state. There have been a lot of improvements to the game, but the one big issue i have with it (crafting) sadly remains untouched. They said they would further adress crafting going forward, so Fingers crossed it gets me back to playing. Apart from that, decent Tierlist i pretty much agree with. I would probably have put Spacehulk Deathwing one Tier lower, that stinker of a game was the very first of only to games total i ever refunded on Steam, but that's about it.
Gonna have to fight you on Rites of War. A tier game with an S tier soundtrack. The aspect warriors were nailed and all felt unique and vividly memorable.
I was one of probably only a couple hundred or so people who really loved Dawn of War 3's multiplayer experience and played about 1500 hours on it. It was pretty hilarious how awful the balance was in the game, but it had some really amazing strengths to go with its glaring weaknesses. Micromanaging the units and heroes was a very fluid experience, and once you did get the hang of positioning your units and using the abilities effectively, it was extremely satisfying. I've not really seen an RTS game that makes you feel you are playing a game that is truly fast paced and requires your full attention like that. The presentation and atmosphere is still S tier for me, it was one of the things people hated about the game the most, but I loved the arcadey and ethereal experience of playing the game in combination with the 40k concept - Age of Sigmar Realms of Ruin achieves a similar quality but sadly this game is even more dead than DoW3 was. It's a shame that the game didn't get further improvements and realise its potential.
I had never experienced this universe; and specifically thanks to your video I was able to play Space Marine and BoltGun; Space Marine because of the "recent" ones my PC can run very well; and Boltgun because I love a boomer shooter and it's light too; anyway; Thank you very much, hugs from Brazil.
bruh, Eternal Crusade sounds frackin' SICK. that would be a dream come true if it were to release now with some kinda level destruction like the DICE engine has
Darktide should be S tier. You don't just get a fast action packed game. You get a godlike one that really manage to make you feel overwhelm and desperate in combat like no other game does. It also got a super high skill ceilling, just like with Vermintide 2. The latter difficulties ask you to understand and master many techniques you didn't need to use in early difficulties. I could talk aout thus series for a long time, I am not a fan of warhammer and this game made me love it. I was just a gamer looking for challenging gameplay and the "tide" serie achieve it will been unique in how it does it.
Oh man... I've been trying to remember the name of "Final Lineration" for years! My dad and I used to play it back in the day on his old PC and neither of us could find it anymore or remember what it was called to look it up. This made me so happy!
Also, regicide is a real game in the warhammer world. Alpharius plays it with Malcador in order to learn to layer his thoughts so they couldn’t be read by psykers
I'm a little disappointed the handhelds weren't mentioned. Squad Command is a good mention because it's around the era that WH40K was just going nuts with the property and putting it on every available gaming platform possible. Like yay Ngage - but let's talk about PSP and DS tie ins.
My favorites are -Inquisitor Martyr -Gladius -Mechanicus -Gothic Armada II -Total War Warhammer III -Space Marine Anniversary -Boltgun -Darktide -Chaos Gate -Battlesector -Dawn of War II CONTROVERSIAL I know... -Age of Sigmar RoR
Well, my ranking for the original Dawn of War I and II as well as their add-ons is a bit different: S-tier Winter Assault, Dark Crusade, Chaos Rising and Retribution, A-tier for Dawn of War, Soulstorm and Dawn of War 2 A tier for Dawn of War the Campaign is S tier, but the factions in skirmish are meh. I only enjoy two of the four, Space Marines and Eldar. Chaos and Orcs are my least favourite factions in DoW I and its add-ons, probably because I was never good at playing them. S-tier for Winter Assault because it introduced the Imperial Guard, my favourite faction in DoW and Warhammer 40k in general. Also, the campaigns were almost on the level of DoW and you could play as 4 factions instead of one. Furthermore, the Winter Assault campaign was the time when I enjoyed playing Orcs and Chaos the most. S-tier for Dark Crusade for the introduction of the Necrons and the Tau, both factions I enjoyed playing as, though I never got good with the Necrons either. And while most of the campaign battles were glorified skirmishes, the Stronghold battles and the battles for specific campaign boons were better than most missions in the DoW and Winter Assault campaigns. A-tier for Soulstorm. The campaigns were worse than Dark Crusade's, but it introduced my 2nd favourite faction in DoW I the Sisters of Battle and the Dark Eldar which I also enjoyed playing quite a bit. A-tier for Dawn of War II because to me the Tyranids are the least interesting of any Warhammer 40k faction, now if we were talking Gene Stealer cults ..., alas not much of a factor in this campaign, what a missed opportunity. S-tier for the DoW II add-ons, two of my favourite Warhammer games ever. The Space Marines felt more lore accurate in DoW II than in DoW I gameplay-wise. So my personal ranking of DoW I and II and their add-ons: 1 Winter Assault 2 Dark Crusade (though I played it far more than WA, especially with my friends) 3 Chaos Rising 4 Retribution 5 DoW I 6 DoW II 7 Soulstorm
Best for me is Templar Battleforce, not official but is pretty amazing. Warhammer really should have hired that studio to make an official 40k game. They nail the whole esthetic, story and gameplay. I play through it once a year. My favorite turnbased skirmish game. 2nd favorite has to be Space Marine.
I was a huge fan of dawn of war, some months ago I found this game was still alive with some incredible mods, I recommend the last version of unification mod 7.1, there are plenty of new balanced factions (36 in total) and it's still very fun in 2024.
I agree. Unification is an amazing mod where almost all factions from Warhammer 40k are playable. It's just a pity that this game has some technical issues, like occasional crashes. It's a shame that Dawn of War 1 still hasn't received a remastered version.
The Dawn of War series (save for the abysmal 3rd) were some of the greatest strategic / tactical games that I ever played. Dawn of War 2 was my favorite. I also like seeing you give Gladius the recognition it deserves. Your list is well done. Out of the ones that I've played, I pretty much agree with you on all of them!
While Space Marine was a decent game (it had tons of gamebreaking bugs at launch) i would also put it as S tier.... Also in regards to Battlefleet Gothic its a great game... and while the 2nd installment had a lot of balancing issues and was fun to play, i would just like to add this... Cadia still stands!
Dawn of War: Soulstorm with the Unification mod is my favorite Warhammer 40k game. It's astonishing that we still don't have a proper RTS successor to this game in 2024 where it would be possible to play almost all factions from Warhammer 40k. Gladius is my second favorite Warhammer 40k game. I like this Civilization-style game with a focus on combat.
Man I need to do a full replay of Fire Warrior AGAIN I also remember playing Squad Command in the Nintendo DS and actually enjoying it many years ago 😂 Also, there used to be a Battlefleet Gothic game for Android back in the day (Battlefleet Gothic: Leviathan)
I played Rouge Trader and loved it, then Space Marine, loved it. Moved on to addicted to Darktide for a weekend, now im on Inquisitor and painting miniatures.
BFGA1 only C tier? No words about the story? The music? The delivery of the lines? The HAM? "TREMBLE before the majesty of the Emperor, for we all dwell in his immortal shadow!"
Thanks for this. I’m a casual 40K fan and find it hard to know what games to play between the massive amounts of them on Steam. This put them all in perspective. Good luck with the painting too, I too have some gray to slay.
It really blows me away just how many game franchises were directly inspired by and even ripped off Warhammer 40k. From Starcraft to Halo, to Doom, to Fallout (Tell me that the brotherhood of steel is not inspired by the Space Marines, they even offer you bionic upgrades!) to Mechwarrior(Their history and the elemental power armor) To Palladium book's Rifts. Heck, Rifts ripped off a plenty, from the Coalition as the Imperium to Triax as the Tau, to elves and dwarves with mecha and guns to the tyranid inspired Xiticix. Even starship troopers seemed to pull visual elements from the Imperial army, which also makes Helldivers another Warhammer 40k inspired franchise. I swear that that I see Warhammer 40k everywhere I look now. =)
Dawn of War 1 will forever be my favorite 40k game. I just got battlesector and rogue trader on steam sale. cant wait to play. sanctus reach is underrated and so is firewarrior. Inquisitor Martyr, Space Marine, and Boltgun are all Great as well.
Squad Command was a pretty solid DS title from what I remember, it just suffered from horrendous sound quality and a difficulty spike that upset a very small 11 year old me.
Just look at Fire Warrior's cover art. Does sitting atop a mountain of skulls ring a bell? Yep, they're for the Throne. The little Shas'la that could wasn't alone.
Storm of Vengeance felt like a reskin, because it was. It was released by the same company a year prior on iOS under the name Ninja Cats vs Samurai Dogs.
I’d put Rogue Trader in S Tier, but I’m a TRPG nerd and this CRPG draws heavily on the tabletop games. I never felt overwhelmed by the character building - I’m just not great at CRPGs. Still, it’s the most fun I’ve ever had in a CRPG and I rate it above Baldur’s Gate 3.
i would personally say that Darktide and Rogue Trader should be in the S tier. i mean, Jasper Kyd's soundtrack for Darktide was insanely good ( and yeah, bolters and plasmas sound soooo satisfying to shoot ), and both Darktide and RT completely catch up with the neo gothic style of the settings. and Darktide's set up, for you char, it means a lot more into lore. you're disposable. you're no hero. if you die, so be it Edited for typos
Pausing the video to say that I played Squad Command on DS and it, from what I remember, was really good. I was also working for GW at the time so I was up to my eyeballs in 40K. Worth your time, maybe something to grab if you're doing some travelling.
Hear me out battlefront 2 style imperium vs tau. Basic troops are guardsmen and fire warriors and have points to spawn vehicles and special units like space marines, terminators and battle suits ect. Even named character hero units
That final tier list looks a lot like a normal distribution. If you remove the Dawn Of War 2 DLCs, it's almost exact. That's really interesting. I wonder what it means, and if that distribution holds between time periods.
Dawn of War 2 is best Dawn of War and the Dark Angels deserve another chance at being a video game protagonist chapter.
Also Isador Akios is a Poindexter.
Also also the graphic for Underhive Wars is bugged and incorrect. The person responsible has been handed in to the regimental commissar.
Okay I'm off to paint my Death Korps, enjoy the video and thanks for watching my fellow 40k nerds ❤
Dawn of War 2 is fine but it gets very repetitive very quickly, that's the biggest issue with it
dark angels are clown chapter sorry
I want Black Templars!
@@i_dont_have_a_name We found the Space Wolf fan
YES DAVE IS A FELLOW DARK ANGELS ENJOYER! I would love a Dark Angels game where we play as risen
I was a tester on Space Marine and can confirm that the devs loved the game! They unfortunately knew their studio was doomed before it was released (thanks to the old THQ publisher thinking it was going to fail when released around the same time as Gear of War and sinking too much of their funds into that dumb draw tablet) but at least they were able to add as much content as possible. The horde mode was especially fun to work on since it was the last thing that was implemented. They wanted it to have legs and be actually hard so they would send us a build a daily with tweaks. They asked for a lot of feedback and wanted it to take our best testers all day to beat it a single time. I am happy to say that I was on that team that beat the final wave, equipped as always with my trusty Plasma Cannon. For the Emperor!
Exterminatus mode is so so much fun to play on and it was really hard to clear all stages, but I did it in the end. Thanks for your great work! And even the Dreadnought dlc is amazing in the PvP mode!
Another little side story was I remember Space Marine wasnt intialally support Pentium D CPUs at launch but I wanted to play the game so much and contacted the support for it, and after they released an update so players with older spec can play! I still remember the care the devs had the joy they brought me till this day.
I remember playing Space Marine 1 and Gears 3 back to back..Good times
i wish relic added the rpg elements they were talking about in all the previews prior to release into space marine. Think the game was still great though.
Imagine if every faction had a game like(or as good as) Space Marine. Really showing you what each army is like from a ground-level perspective
This has to happen.
Imperial Guard would be like Battlefield I , but it'd be more about troop efficiency ;)
Salamander: Kitten Hugging. I'd play it
An Aeldari game would just be Metal Gear Rising Revengence.
@@bendoucet8641 Or possibly Bayonetta if it is a Harlequin game ;)
I’d have put DoW 1 Dark Crusade in S tier. The campaign, the introduction of the Necrons and Tau, it’s easily my favourite version of the original game.
Yeah I was about to say the same. Dark Crusade S tier, DoW 1 A tier, Soulstorm B tier at most, Winter assault A tier.
Winter Assault as A tier is a steal, that expansion was exquisite
Maybe I was just wounded by the fact that Winter Assault made me buy Imperial Guard, and I was quickly struck with how bad I am at painting faces.
@@IrregularDave that's the main thing that keeps most people from playing the guard I think, having to paint hundreds of faces haha
@@Sevoverkill its the reason my friend that plays them only uses the models with full masks or full helmets
WA and Dark Crusade were pinnacle. I loved the Necrons. Had like a 70% win rate with them online they were so broken and bugged.
Winter Assault turned me into an Imperial Guard fan, have been stuck to them ever since.
Dave you are living the dream, getting paid to talk about 40k and hanging out with everyone's favorite Keeper of Firearms and artillery, keep it up dude
Haha thank you I will do my best!
Dave keeps carrying Gamespot.
Dave and Jonathan Ferguson are to the Gamespot Channel what Yahtzee was to the Escapist.
I can't put into words how magical dark crusade is, such an amazing RTS
what is so good about rts? thinking of making a transition to rts genre
@@jmgonzales7701 compared to turn based or just videogames in general? Turn based strategy gives players more minute control over every detail, but real time strategy is faster paced, and it's entertaining watching dozens of units massacre the enemy. Both RTS and TBS are just satisfying to play for gamers that like to think strategically. The first Dawn of War is an excellent RTS btw, and a good starting point if you've never played one before.
Hope youre still playing it today brah, theres still an active community.
@@plasmapanasonic4741 really?
@@jmgonzales7701 Always a few games going, particularly popular with eastern Euros/Slavs when games load up fast. Good community.
Mechanicus deserved to be in S tier for the soundtrack alone but the game was actually S too imo and the fact that they made the tech priests feel less human than the Necrons was a perfect touch of vibe for Warhammer 40k.
The most glaring issue IMO was the inverted difficulty curve that makes it less than perfect.
for me, Dark Crusade is the best DoW game. it added something new, besides new races ofc, and i think it was really good at what it did. i never played DoW 2 much but i never heard great things about them
To me, DoW2 is really about how much you enjoy playing against other players. In pvp skirmish, DoW2 was tighter and felt like it kept the players focused on the battle but if you wanted a campaign or focused on playing against AI DoW1 is the better experience.
Dark Crusade is best for me too. I mostly play as Eldar or Space Marines. Fill the map with turrets so the Defence missions are over quick! 😂
@@jakemonkey7 from what I remember, DoW2 was more focused on smaller squads rather than a more broad army etc. I never played DoW2 multilayer so I don't know if that side of the game is better.
Ofc, visually DoW2 is superior and it's gameplay is nice, but I just preferred the overall experience Dark Crusade provided.
Soulstorm was also good but I think it fell short of Dark Crusade for me. Not 100% sure why though. Haven't played it in years and when I did play it, I didn't play it much compared to Dark Crusade so maybe I should give it another chance
DoW2 actually felt A LOT like they balanced it with 5th edition tabletop feel in mind, but with adding some CoH mechanics (like firing arches for heavy weapons). Flamers in the tabletop ignored cover - in DoW2 they dealt additional damage against targets in cover. Tanks had different sides to them and and it mattered towards the damage calculation. It's also wasn't possible to wreck tanks without the anti-tank weapon just like in the current tabletop.
Some of the things that first appeared in DoW2 migrated to the tabletop (that's my theory, could be s coincidence). For example, assault marines could deal damage with their jumps in the video game - and in the tabletop, hammer of wrath rule appeared. And currently almost every unit has some sort of the active ability, pretty much like on DoW1/2.
So I personally liked DoW2 much more because at the very same time I first started playing the 5th edition 40k, and the general feelings of the tabletop was there. Also it felt a lot more visceral, as the pace was much faster, and you had to be more precise with our actions.
DoW1 and DLCs are awesome, but it would be safe to say that they prioritized in-game balance over the codex authenticity - tactical marines being basically tactical and devastator units, tau crisis being almost like a walker type unit instead of mobile suit squad, the list goes on.
To me, the only bad thing about the DoW2 was the fact that it was almost like a reimaining for the mostly players, who couldn't follow the evolution of Relic design philosophy by playing both DoW and CoH. They should have make DoW2 a little closer to the CoH (it has many DoW2 mechanics AND the base building/building capturing).
@@MrFiremagnet maybe? I wouldn't know tbh as I've never played tabletop. But tbf, they are games and game balance is important so if DoW1 is more balanced then imo, it's better
Rogue Trader S tier! 😊
I think that it could be an S-tier game once it gets the typical post-launch Owlcat treatment. I also think A-tier is totally fair at this point, though. As he said, it’s a really great game for either CRPG fans and/or WH fans. It just has Owlcat’s typical “college math professor” progression system and it becomes marginally thinner in the final act.
To me, those just hold it back at 8/10 rather than the 9 it could be.
I also love the game, but I agree with Dave’s criticisms. I’m no stranger to complex CRPG progression, either - I love IWD1 & 2, PoE2: Deadfire, Fallout 1, etc. However, Owlcat games make classic CRPG progression systems seem simple by comparison, which isn’t necessarily a compliment. That being said, I would never call Owlcat’s progression design straight up bad. They just *way* overthink everything compared to their peers IMO.
40k really needs more 3rd and 1st person shooters!
40k Helldivers 2 style game would be amazing
@@janmakowiecki8204 If helldivers already has mindless action, imagine the meat grinder it would be with the marines and tyrants
I love how confidently he says C tier, while placing a game in B tier visually at 30:20
YES!
I generally agree with most of these picks (Final Liberation is such an underrated gem!), but I'm definitely a lot warmer on the Battlefleet Gothic Armada games. I would honestly consider the first to be an A and the second an S.
imagine a game like space marine set in horus heresy era where you can choose either loyalist or herertic side with its own story that would be the best selling Warhammer game
As sketchy as Fire Warrior was, there is one thing it deserves praise for... how it portrayed the bolter. It felt like a weapon of pure destruction rather than just an oversized assault rifle.
Yeah it drives me nuts seeing bolters portrayed as just battle rifles but shaped different. Darktide did a good job of it too. Space Marine 2, not so much
It's quiet
Small correction: Last Stand wasn't introduced with Retribution, it was before Chaos Rising. It was used both as a competiion for Relic (the first group of people to beat it won a graphics card), and to tease the main antagonists for the next DLC.
Should be illegal to not mention Darktide's music track! As long as you don't play it 24 hours a day, Darktide is one of the greatest 40k games now
It isn’t fun solo though which is the problem
@@willvermillion1025 i see this everywhere and do not understand why it's a complaint at all. It's a co-op game.
Rock solid list, wonderful vid. I only dissent on 2 points: Darktide's OST is something that should be experienced in game and pushes it up to an S tier game for me. And Rogue Trader's devs tinker on their games for years after their release. The critiscism about the skill tree is 100% legit, it's definitely something they can improve, and they probably will.
100% agreed on Darktide's OST, easily one of the best videogame soundtracks I've heard, if not the best, as far as both quality and immersiveness; even outside of the game, it's worth listening to. I have my own issues with the game that mean I can't in good conscious push it to S tier (not quite yet anyways), but man, when you're in game and Immortal Imperium or Imperial Advance starts playing, phew, that really gets the blood pumping alright!
Darktide is definitely S Tier, the atmosphere, graphics, soundtrack and gameplay in combination is really exceptional. Actually it's arguably the best game on this entire list due to just how immersive it feels to play.
and after recent patches it may even be better than Space Marine 2 and that's saying a lot!
I'm playing Rogue Trader now and I'm having a blast!
Dawn of War: Soulstorm was my first introduction to the epic Warhammer 40k universe, and it completely pulled me in
One of my favourite 40k experiences is the Men of War assault squad 2 mod. Really represents the carnage of what an actual 40k battlefiend might feel like. Recommend!
I am intrigued...
@@IrregularDave One of the best 40k experience indeed! High level of tactical realism with wide variety of units using DoW2 models for the most part, i only wish the author had left the vanilla maps of the game, his custom maps are really mid...
I could give a go at making a nice map for it @@clementbianchini8651
Squad Command on the PSP is my favourite. The cutscenes are so badass.
Fire Warrior was my introduction as well. It was such a weird game. But....I loved it strangely enough. I knew nothing of Warhammer, but the world felt so dark interesting. Now I'm reading Gaunt's Ghosts and I'm getting more fun out of the universe. I'm super excited for Space Marine 2.
They need to make a KOTOR style rpg based on the Horus Heresy and let you choose your side.
The thing I liked most about Fire Warrior was how it portrayed the Boltgun. It was big, heavy, and genuinely felt like it fired miniature rocket propelled grenades. It doesn't line up with other versions, but it's stuck in my memory.
The Emperor Protects
Never played the board game and kinda new to all the warhammer 40k lore. But i feel like i've been missing out. Now i am playing Rogue Trader and im soo hooked. Only 40k game i played befor Rogue Trader was Dawn of war 1 and 2 as a kid and loved them.
Seeing Dave's fantastically-painted miniatures at the end was a nice touch, great work!
I'm loving this video, my only Warhammer exposure has been 4+ years of hearing my friend talk about the lore followed by downloading Tacticus which is A-Tier.
Space Marine 2 is going to be in S tier when it comes out. I can feel it.
That's all it needs to be 👍🏼
I really appreciate how much detail and effort you put into this video. I loved the table top game as a kid but have really had a tough time finding a quality video game translation of that feeling. It feels like Warhammer tries to cover every style of game except their own turn-based table top one 😂
Rogue trader somewhat taps into this niche
I hope we get something good tomorrow from Skulls event.
If I get to see some more of Space Marine 2 I'll be happy.
@@IrregularDave True, probably on everybodies bucket list.
It's rumored that we are getting a total war 40k game so that also might be revealed tomorrow
@@IrregularDave How are you feeling about it? I thought it looked incredible.
Nevromunda hired gun is underrated and wild af. If you want to see the 40k world up close, with great graphics(not animations, though), this is it
Ambitious list but plays it very safe to satisfy the masses. Battlesector, Sanctus Reach, Battlefleet Armada 2 and Relics of War should be rated a lot higher!
For sure. I'd add Armageddon to your list... though to be fair I'd include it for pretty much the same reasons he said I would so fair play there.
A dark souls esque Warhammer 40K game where you play as a space Marine that is trapped on a hostile world would be amazing
Dawn of War Cinnematic was one of the first to make me like "Jesus I can't wait to play this!"
Dawn of War 1 and 2, Space Marine and Rogue Trader are my personal favourites from the 40k Universe. I sunk 124 hours into Rogue Trader in 3 weeks... Space Marine and DOW2 are some of the only games I've ever played for a second time after completing them
Shootas, Blood & Teef was an absolute blast for me and i personally would put it somewhere between A and B Tier. Probably A, because i am a huge Fan of the Greenskins in Warhammer Fantasy and 40k.
And whereas i went absolutely ham on Darktide before and on Release (Got my ogryn to level 30 during preoder beta, before crafting materials were even a thing), the rose tinted glasses came off rather hard for me personally. The mentioned lack of any meaningful story and more importantly, my absolute displeasure with the gacha crafting system, that still hasn't been properly adressed (at least for me), were two of the main factors that made me put the game on ice. Haven't played since March 22, 2023...personally i would put the game between B and C Tier in it's current state. There have been a lot of improvements to the game, but the one big issue i have with it (crafting) sadly remains untouched. They said they would further adress crafting going forward, so Fingers crossed it gets me back to playing.
Apart from that, decent Tierlist i pretty much agree with. I would probably have put Spacehulk Deathwing one Tier lower, that stinker of a game was the very first of only to games total i ever refunded on Steam, but that's about it.
Gonna have to fight you on Rites of War. A tier game with an S tier soundtrack. The aspect warriors were nailed and all felt unique and vividly memorable.
Awesome video brother! Thanks for sharing.
It's such a shame there aren't more video games in the setting. They could make an entire trilogy on Loken
Imagine playing as Garro rounding up all the loyalists
@@IrregularDave or the last stand of istvaan 3
There's actually a lot of video games in the Warhammer setting.
@@MetaVita and most of them are bad or old
I was one of probably only a couple hundred or so people who really loved Dawn of War 3's multiplayer experience and played about 1500 hours on it. It was pretty hilarious how awful the balance was in the game, but it had some really amazing strengths to go with its glaring weaknesses. Micromanaging the units and heroes was a very fluid experience, and once you did get the hang of positioning your units and using the abilities effectively, it was extremely satisfying. I've not really seen an RTS game that makes you feel you are playing a game that is truly fast paced and requires your full attention like that. The presentation and atmosphere is still S tier for me, it was one of the things people hated about the game the most, but I loved the arcadey and ethereal experience of playing the game in combination with the 40k concept - Age of Sigmar Realms of Ruin achieves a similar quality but sadly this game is even more dead than DoW3 was. It's a shame that the game didn't get further improvements and realise its potential.
Would it be possible to get a high resolution version of this list to look at somewhere?
I had never experienced this universe; and specifically thanks to your video I was able to play Space Marine and BoltGun; Space Marine because of the "recent" ones my PC can run very well; and Boltgun because I love a boomer shooter and it's light too; anyway; Thank you very much, hugs from Brazil.
bruh, Eternal Crusade sounds frackin' SICK. that would be a dream come true if it were to release now with some kinda level destruction like the DICE engine has
I cant believe they haven’t republished space marine for modern consoles!
Awesome list. Does Warhammer Fantasy will get one too?
God I miss eternal crusade. Game had so much potential, still stings to this day.
Darktide should be S tier. You don't just get a fast action packed game. You get a godlike one that really manage to make you feel overwhelm and desperate in combat like no other game does. It also got a super high skill ceilling, just like with Vermintide 2. The latter difficulties ask you to understand and master many techniques you didn't need to use in early difficulties. I could talk aout thus series for a long time, I am not a fan of warhammer and this game made me love it. I was just a gamer looking for challenging gameplay and the "tide" serie achieve it will been unique in how it does it.
Oh man... I've been trying to remember the name of "Final Lineration" for years! My dad and I used to play it back in the day on his old PC and neither of us could find it anymore or remember what it was called to look it up. This made me so happy!
Ah square command was so good. Childhood memories unlocked with that one.
Chaosgate Demon Hunters is probably the best new 40k game in quite a while.
I had a friend who was into 40k because of his older brothers. Bringing Firewarrior made me cool at that house.
Also, regicide is a real game in the warhammer world. Alpharius plays it with Malcador in order to learn to layer his thoughts so they couldn’t be read by psykers
Chaos Gate and Rites of War were my childhood. They both defintely deserve an A rank in my books.
I'm a little disappointed the handhelds weren't mentioned. Squad Command is a good mention because it's around the era that WH40K was just going nuts with the property and putting it on every available gaming platform possible. Like yay Ngage - but let's talk about PSP and DS tie ins.
My favorites are
-Inquisitor Martyr
-Gladius
-Mechanicus
-Gothic Armada II
-Total War Warhammer III
-Space Marine Anniversary
-Boltgun
-Darktide
-Chaos Gate
-Battlesector
-Dawn of War II
CONTROVERSIAL I know...
-Age of Sigmar RoR
Imagine a fps 40k game like Planet side 2 scale with different factions to play, that's the ultimate goal!
Well, my ranking for the original Dawn of War I and II as well as their add-ons is a bit different:
S-tier Winter Assault, Dark Crusade, Chaos Rising and Retribution,
A-tier for Dawn of War, Soulstorm and Dawn of War 2
A tier for Dawn of War the Campaign is S tier, but the factions in skirmish are meh. I only enjoy two of the four, Space Marines and Eldar. Chaos and Orcs are my least favourite factions in DoW I and its add-ons, probably because I was never good at playing them.
S-tier for Winter Assault because it introduced the Imperial Guard, my favourite faction in DoW and Warhammer 40k in general. Also, the campaigns were almost on the level of DoW and you could play as 4 factions instead of one. Furthermore, the Winter Assault campaign was the time when I enjoyed playing Orcs and Chaos the most.
S-tier for Dark Crusade for the introduction of the Necrons and the Tau, both factions I enjoyed playing as, though I never got good with the Necrons either. And while most of the campaign battles were glorified skirmishes, the Stronghold battles and the battles for specific campaign boons were better than most missions in the DoW and Winter Assault campaigns.
A-tier for Soulstorm. The campaigns were worse than Dark Crusade's, but it introduced my 2nd favourite faction in DoW I the Sisters of Battle and the Dark Eldar which I also enjoyed playing quite a bit.
A-tier for Dawn of War II because to me the Tyranids are the least interesting of any Warhammer 40k faction, now if we were talking Gene Stealer cults ..., alas not much of a factor in this campaign, what a missed opportunity.
S-tier for the DoW II add-ons, two of my favourite Warhammer games ever. The Space Marines felt more lore accurate in DoW II than in DoW I gameplay-wise.
So my personal ranking of DoW I and II and their add-ons:
1 Winter Assault
2 Dark Crusade (though I played it far more than WA, especially with my friends)
3 Chaos Rising
4 Retribution
5 DoW I
6 DoW II
7 Soulstorm
DOW3 and JUMPING TERMINATOR ARMORS DOING BACKFLIPS was an unfathomable sin
Wow, that was brilliant, thank you for making this.
Best for me is Templar Battleforce, not official but is pretty amazing. Warhammer really should have hired that studio to make an official 40k game. They nail the whole esthetic, story and gameplay. I play through it once a year. My favorite turnbased skirmish game. 2nd favorite has to be Space Marine.
Dark Crusade not being S tier is heresy.
Chaos Gate being B tier is insane. It's the second best 40k game ever made. The Emperor commands you to DIE.
I was a huge fan of dawn of war, some months ago I found this game was still alive with some incredible mods, I recommend the last version of unification mod 7.1, there are plenty of new balanced factions (36 in total) and it's still very fun in 2024.
I agree. Unification is an amazing mod where almost all factions from Warhammer 40k are playable. It's just a pity that this game has some technical issues, like occasional crashes. It's a shame that Dawn of War 1 still hasn't received a remastered version.
The Dawn of War series (save for the abysmal 3rd) were some of the greatest strategic / tactical games that I ever played. Dawn of War 2 was my favorite.
I also like seeing you give Gladius the recognition it deserves.
Your list is well done. Out of the ones that I've played, I pretty much agree with you on all of them!
While Space Marine was a decent game (it had tons of gamebreaking bugs at launch) i would also put it as S tier....
Also in regards to Battlefleet Gothic its a great game... and while the 2nd installment had a lot of balancing issues and was fun to play, i would just like to add this... Cadia still stands!
I'm so excited for Space Marine 2 .... with co-op!
Nice to see Rogue Trader and Inquisitor Martyr getting some love.
Dawn of War: Soulstorm with the Unification mod is my favorite Warhammer 40k game. It's astonishing that we still don't have a proper RTS successor to this game in 2024 where it would be possible to play almost all factions from Warhammer 40k.
Gladius is my second favorite Warhammer 40k game. I like this Civilization-style game with a focus on combat.
for Eternal Crusade, the is fan project in the works and you can download it for free, called warhammer 40k: eternal crusade ressurection
Man I need to do a full replay of Fire Warrior AGAIN
I also remember playing Squad Command in the Nintendo DS and actually enjoying it many years ago 😂
Also, there used to be a Battlefleet Gothic game for Android back in the day (Battlefleet Gothic: Leviathan)
I played Rouge Trader and loved it, then Space Marine, loved it. Moved on to addicted to Darktide for a weekend, now im on Inquisitor and painting miniatures.
BFGA1 only C tier? No words about the story? The music? The delivery of the lines? The HAM?
"TREMBLE before the majesty of the Emperor, for we all dwell in his immortal shadow!"
Thanks for this. I’m a casual 40K fan and find it hard to know what games to play between the massive amounts of them on Steam. This put them all in perspective. Good luck with the painting too, I too have some gray to slay.
I also prefer DoW2 over the first game.
A person of culture
@@IrregularDaveI’ll be honest. Dawn of War 2 seems like it has too much back tracking through the campaign. Plus there’s the factor of RNG drops…
Very agreeable list, there has been a lot of 40k games, but I feel they now get better more often.
Fantasy lineup next!
It really blows me away just how many game franchises were directly inspired by and even ripped off Warhammer 40k.
From Starcraft to Halo, to Doom, to Fallout (Tell me that the brotherhood of steel is not inspired by the Space Marines, they even offer you bionic upgrades!) to Mechwarrior(Their history and the elemental power armor) To Palladium book's Rifts. Heck, Rifts ripped off a plenty, from the Coalition as the Imperium to Triax as the Tau, to elves and dwarves with mecha and guns to the tyranid inspired Xiticix.
Even starship troopers seemed to pull visual elements from the Imperial army, which also makes Helldivers another Warhammer 40k inspired franchise.
I swear that that I see Warhammer 40k everywhere I look now. =)
Dawn of War 1 will forever be my favorite 40k game. I just got battlesector and rogue trader on steam sale. cant wait to play.
sanctus reach is underrated and so is firewarrior. Inquisitor Martyr, Space Marine, and Boltgun are all Great as well.
Not having Inquisitor Martyr and Battlesector in at least A tier just feels wrong.
Inquisitor Martyr was definitely fun. Haven't done two playthroughs of any game back to back in a long time.
He'll ye just grabbed battlesector and so far it seems rly kl.
Battlesector is great!
Inquisitor Martyr is the most fun I've had in an arpg in many moons
Rogue Trader on A instead of S is pure heresy
I loved fire warrior. I liked the targeting mechanic, and I loved the locations and 40K setting.
Everyone always forgets Dakka Squadron.
Squad Command was a pretty solid DS title from what I remember, it just suffered from horrendous sound quality and a difficulty spike that upset a very small 11 year old me.
Just look at Fire Warrior's cover art. Does sitting atop a mountain of skulls ring a bell? Yep, they're for the Throne. The little Shas'la that could wasn't alone.
The 40k mmo that vigil was working on before THQ shutdown looked great also. I think the assets they had became eternal crusade later on.
Great video! Please do a fantasy tier list now!
Storm of Vengeance felt like a reskin, because it was. It was released by the same company a year prior on iOS under the name Ninja Cats vs Samurai Dogs.
Glad to see Inquisitor get B tier. I think this is an under-appreciated game. I still play it off and on and always enjoy it.
So where does Space Marine 2 fall into now
if space marine 1 is an s space marine 2 is a s+
I’d put Rogue Trader in S Tier, but I’m a TRPG nerd and this CRPG draws heavily on the tabletop games. I never felt overwhelmed by the character building - I’m just not great at CRPGs. Still, it’s the most fun I’ve ever had in a CRPG and I rate it above Baldur’s Gate 3.
>EVERY game
>entire category for 'never played' which is completely full
I wouldn't expect anything different from Gamespot.
i would personally say that Darktide and Rogue Trader should be in the S tier. i mean, Jasper Kyd's soundtrack for Darktide was insanely good ( and yeah, bolters and plasmas sound soooo satisfying to shoot ), and both Darktide and RT completely catch up with the neo gothic style of the settings. and Darktide's set up, for you char, it means a lot more into lore. you're disposable. you're no hero. if you die, so be it
Edited for typos
Loved Final Liberation and Chaos Gate. Brilliant
Pausing the video to say that I played Squad Command on DS and it, from what I remember, was really good. I was also working for GW at the time so I was up to my eyeballs in 40K.
Worth your time, maybe something to grab if you're doing some travelling.
Hear me out battlefront 2 style imperium vs tau. Basic troops are guardsmen and fire warriors and have points to spawn vehicles and special units like space marines, terminators and battle suits ect. Even named character hero units
That final tier list looks a lot like a normal distribution. If you remove the Dawn Of War 2 DLCs, it's almost exact. That's really interesting. I wonder what it means, and if that distribution holds between time periods.
I desperately want a fully fledged Tug of War game with Warhammer Aesthetic.
Great watch! Now do one for Fantasy/AoS❤️
Vengeance of the blood angels came out on the 3DO before the PS1