HARD disagree with Taln being the champion or being El. Taln has one of the sweetest, most genuinely beautiful moments in the books when he reunites with Ash at the battle of Thaylen Fields. When she apologizes for abandoning him, he has a moment of clarity, tears up, and says, "'What a gift you gave them! Time to recover, for once between Desolations. Time to progress. They never had a chance before. But this time... yes, maybe they do." That man is my Herald of War. Not some imposter. Not El. He's the most heroic, selfless character in the book, and I see no world where a man who took on 7,000 years of torture, 4500 of which were by himself, suddenly decides he wants to side with the enemy for revenge. Hard pass. I cannot wait for Taln's book in the back half.
I have TWO big problems with your Taln theory. First, and most important, Taln never broke. Which means he never gave in to let a desolation come. It would be a huge ideological shift for him to make it 4500 years and then just throw it all away like that. But two, El is specifically a fused who has “had his rhythms stripped” and we know that all of the heralds are humans from Ashyn (except Ash who was born on Roshar). So how did he become a singer, then a fused, then get his rhythms stripped, all while not breaking during a mostly cognitive realm battle on Braize? I like most of it, but it just doesn’t really fit the lore that we know. Also, word of Brandon has said that the crazy man is in fact Taln. That can always change, but I’m pretty sure he’s sure on that one
He has written somewhere that a person can become a singer through the storms. It would be interesting if Taln was Unmade, making him Fused (?) and the body still just has some memories left
Yeah I wasn't even sure I heard that right. They think that El, the singer, the Fused, somehow is Taln? Taln, who Ash herself saw as a human man and recognized him? So we know for a fact that he at least used to be human. I... just don't understand how that's a theory. Surely it can't possibly be true? I feel like I must be missing something.
Quick question: I just completed my first read through of stormlight archives (as well as everything else) Where is it mentioned that taln wasn't the one to break?
My theory is that Lyft will become Cultivations vessel and Dalinar will be Honors. Those 2 and Taravangian are the 3 people that Cultivation has personally met and they each fill a similar role to their shard. She is cultivating them. Taravangian has been an antagonist the whole time and is now Odium. Dalinar would be a natural fit for Honor as the main force of good in the world. And much like Cultivation herself Lyft is a bit of a wildcard and is mostly in the background affecting the the story in more subtle ways.
9:20 I 100% agree with this take! I think a lot of the reveals I’ve experienced while reading Sanderson over the years are not great because they are so far out of left field, but because they are not obvious but once you learn them they become obvious in hindsight (such as the reveal with Vin’s earring in Mistborn). The amount of time between books, experience with Sanderson’s style, and online theorizing leads to us finding more breadcrumbs and connecting the dots we missed when more causally reading early Sanderson. For example, with the Shallon’s (audiobook listener who has no idea how to spell her name) mother being a herald theory - I would have never thought of that without someone else telling me the theory, and, assuming that is the case, it would have absolutely blown my mind when it’s revealed in book 5 (while also seeming obvious in hindsight)
I vote for TerraVoDium as our taravangian odium combo name. Its got terra for vangian as well as terror in there. Its got Odium. Rolls off the tongue. Sounds like someone Voldamort would love to hang with.
Big things to happen in this book i need to happen. -Venli and Renarin to start a 3rd group of VoidSpren or corrupted radiants. Maybe get together also. Thatd be cool to see parsh human relations. -whatever is happening with Eshonai. -Adolin shows the way for rejuvinating deadeyes and becomes a different type of radiant. Adolin confronts killing sadeas and his feelings with his father. -Kaladin and Szeth as frenemies doing they traveling and maybe fighting Moash...? Big predictions for the Cosmere. Kelsier is trying to bring down the "gods" or shards. Seeing them as beings lording over people vs caring for them. Kaladin will be the force opposing him, all the while wondering what he believes in. A world of shards or no shards... Dalinar will be Unity Shard, being the strongest reasoning behind pro shard theology.
I think at 39 minutes-ish, the British lady was talking about Zial (sp?), the undercover ardent that is actually Vasher from War Breaker. He used to have Nightblood.
The way I understand it, the Desolation didn't return because a Herald broke, but because the Oathpact was broken when Honor was shattered. That's why the Fused can be reborn, cause the cycles of the Oathpact doesn't exist anymore. That's why Dalinar wanted to learn from Ishar, hoping he could reform the Oathpact. So if it were Shallan's Mom, it still had nothing to do with the Desolation.
Awesome vid. There are plenty of theories I haven't heard of. I believe Odium's champion will be Adolin due to him not being a Radiant like his father and brother, and Taravangian could deceive him in saving Roshar and surpassing Radiant-hood. Adolin has shown that he doesn't always align with his father's methods and beliefs. Taravangian could use that difference in convincing Adolin to fight for him for the "greater good". Hopefully, little Gavinor can just be a child a while longer and not get tied up in world breaking conflicts.
I don't think Kaladin will die but I hope he does. I was actually hoping he would die at the end of the last book. I think Sanderson has run out of ideas for him and he just keeps going through the exact same character arc book after book. He went from being my favorite character in the series to being the most frustrating.
Ishar is totally gonna be Odiums champion and be a bondsmith unbound.... which will allow tarravodium to do with dalinar what OG odium wanted without needing dalinar... Tarravodium wants an unbounded BondSmith to make capital C Connections throughout the worlds allowing Odium and the army to move quickly in the space opera war part of Cosmere.
15:45 could that refer to Vasher? but not in the context of the champion but in a regular way. Because everyone is compared to Vasher and heralds is a child. I am saying Vasher because it's says "breath".
1. I don't think "it had to be someone else" is the only answer to Taln not breaking. It's possible that Odium just found a way around it. Everything is different now, there's an Everstorm, Fused are returning in different ways. It doesn't have to be that another Herald died and broke. 2. If Shallan was able to kill a Herald, we're gonna need some kind of explanation. "She didn't expect it" doesn't make sense. These are iconically insanely good warriors. Taln caught two darts in mid-air while tripped out of his gourd. Ishar, who isn't even their best warrior, fought several Radiants with Blades, bare-handed. There's just no way that she was facing a person in a combat situation, who she knew could potentially have access to a Blade, saw her raise her arms to summon said Blade, and just ran straight into it. We'll need to hear some other justification for why she wouldn't think to dodge. Like they say in Tress, you simply do not live for thousands of years if your mindset is not to be careful just because the odds you'll get harmed by something are low. If you ignore every 1% chance that you die, then it's only 100 chances until you're at even odds of dying. This is certainly possible, nothing disproves it, and most of the "evidence" I've seen for the theory is just "it hasn't been disproven." But if there is some explanation for how Shallan was able to kill a Herald, it could still happen. As for Chana takes over for Shallan... she went through many Weepings. She'd be wholly out of stormlight. So she could not have kept the Lightweaving that she was half her own mass up permanently. And no, she didn't spend all the weepings hidden away, because she expressly killed her dad during the weeping.
It is far more likely that Gavinor is the champion. The taln theory, in terms of setup and foreshadowing would be more of a pull out of a hat than Adolin. Shallash recognizes Taln in Oathbringer, the crazy man is not some imposter. Taln also never broke, and siding with odium (who designed the everstorm to get around Taln) would be tantamount to breaking. Also, what significance is there for Wit to be waiting for him in way of kings if he’s just a red herring nobody? Taravangian is a chess player and the baby champion theory makes more sense in universe and in character for him to pull that one out along with textual foreshadowing I love this discussion, but the Taln theory is just not possible and not foreshadowed. What is likely is someone could have his honorblade, but Taln himself is big crazy Mr muscle, and not El who has told us who he is. Maybe El with Talns blade?
Moash doesnt need a redemption arch, he needs a everyone realizes he was right in Wok-OB an apologize for betraying him and help him beat odium and imperialist colonizers arch
Shallans mom being a Herald, means she’s still alive. They can have scenes together, and that’s really compelling.
HARD disagree with Taln being the champion or being El. Taln has one of the sweetest, most genuinely beautiful moments in the books when he reunites with Ash at the battle of Thaylen Fields. When she apologizes for abandoning him, he has a moment of clarity, tears up, and says, "'What a gift you gave them! Time to recover, for once between Desolations. Time to progress. They never had a chance before. But this time... yes, maybe they do."
That man is my Herald of War. Not some imposter. Not El. He's the most heroic, selfless character in the book, and I see no world where a man who took on 7,000 years of torture, 4500 of which were by himself, suddenly decides he wants to side with the enemy for revenge. Hard pass. I cannot wait for Taln's book in the back half.
Fully agree
I have TWO big problems with your Taln theory. First, and most important, Taln never broke. Which means he never gave in to let a desolation come. It would be a huge ideological shift for him to make it 4500 years and then just throw it all away like that. But two, El is specifically a fused who has “had his rhythms stripped” and we know that all of the heralds are humans from Ashyn (except Ash who was born on Roshar). So how did he become a singer, then a fused, then get his rhythms stripped, all while not breaking during a mostly cognitive realm battle on Braize? I like most of it, but it just doesn’t really fit the lore that we know. Also, word of Brandon has said that the crazy man is in fact Taln. That can always change, but I’m pretty sure he’s sure on that one
He has written somewhere that a person can become a singer through the storms.
It would be interesting if Taln was Unmade, making him Fused (?) and the body still just has some memories left
Yeah I wasn't even sure I heard that right. They think that El, the singer, the Fused, somehow is Taln? Taln, who Ash herself saw as a human man and recognized him? So we know for a fact that he at least used to be human.
I... just don't understand how that's a theory. Surely it can't possibly be true? I feel like I must be missing something.
Quick question: I just completed my first read through of stormlight archives (as well as everything else)
Where is it mentioned that taln wasn't the one to break?
@ good question! Nowhere in the books. lol. He said it off the record at a signing a few years ago.
@@SarcasmFiend23 i mean it was "on the record" just not in a book. He answered a fan question.
My theory is that Lyft will become Cultivations vessel and Dalinar will be Honors. Those 2 and Taravangian are the 3 people that Cultivation has personally met and they each fill a similar role to their shard. She is cultivating them.
Taravangian has been an antagonist the whole time and is now Odium. Dalinar would be a natural fit for Honor as the main force of good in the world. And much like Cultivation herself Lyft is a bit of a wildcard and is mostly in the background affecting the the story in more subtle ways.
9:20 I 100% agree with this take! I think a lot of the reveals I’ve experienced while reading Sanderson over the years are not great because they are so far out of left field, but because they are not obvious but once you learn them they become obvious in hindsight (such as the reveal with Vin’s earring in Mistborn). The amount of time between books, experience with Sanderson’s style, and online theorizing leads to us finding more breadcrumbs and connecting the dots we missed when more causally reading early Sanderson.
For example, with the Shallon’s (audiobook listener who has no idea how to spell her name) mother being a herald theory - I would have never thought of that without someone else telling me the theory, and, assuming that is the case, it would have absolutely blown my mind when it’s revealed in book 5 (while also seeming obvious in hindsight)
I vote for TerraVoDium as our taravangian odium combo name. Its got terra for vangian as well as terror in there. Its got Odium. Rolls off the tongue. Sounds like someone Voldamort would love to hang with.
Oh man Elliot- I just read Interlude 3 of WAT and you are going to LOVE it 😂 iykyk
Patrick is hysterical- he’s on a theory video and had not heard a single theory 😂
We’ve all talked so much about the champions what if it doesn’t actually happen this book? Because new Odium finds a loop hole to call it off.
Big things to happen in this book i need to happen.
-Venli and Renarin to start a 3rd group of VoidSpren or corrupted radiants. Maybe get together also. Thatd be cool to see parsh human relations.
-whatever is happening with Eshonai.
-Adolin shows the way for rejuvinating deadeyes and becomes a different type of radiant. Adolin confronts killing sadeas and his feelings with his father.
-Kaladin and Szeth as frenemies doing they traveling and maybe fighting Moash...?
Big predictions for the Cosmere.
Kelsier is trying to bring down the "gods" or shards. Seeing them as beings lording over people vs caring for them.
Kaladin will be the force opposing him, all the while wondering what he believes in. A world of shards or no shards...
Dalinar will be Unity Shard, being the strongest reasoning behind pro shard theology.
I think at 39 minutes-ish, the British lady was talking about Zial (sp?), the undercover ardent that is actually Vasher from War Breaker. He used to have Nightblood.
The way I understand it, the Desolation didn't return because a Herald broke, but because the Oathpact was broken when Honor was shattered. That's why the Fused can be reborn, cause the cycles of the Oathpact doesn't exist anymore. That's why Dalinar wanted to learn from Ishar, hoping he could reform the Oathpact. So if it were Shallan's Mom, it still had nothing to do with the Desolation.
yay! It's so fun to see everyone!
Awesome vid. There are plenty of theories I haven't heard of. I believe Odium's champion will be Adolin due to him not being a Radiant like his father and brother, and Taravangian could deceive him in saving Roshar and surpassing Radiant-hood. Adolin has shown that he doesn't always align with his father's methods and beliefs. Taravangian could use that difference in convincing Adolin to fight for him for the "greater good".
Hopefully, little Gavinor can just be a child a while longer and not get tied up in world breaking conflicts.
I don't think Kaladin will die but I hope he does. I was actually hoping he would die at the end of the last book. I think Sanderson has run out of ideas for him and he just keeps going through the exact same character arc book after book. He went from being my favorite character in the series to being the most frustrating.
i could see adolin as dalinars champion and renarin as odiums honestly.
Ishar is totally gonna be Odiums champion and be a bondsmith unbound.... which will allow tarravodium to do with dalinar what OG odium wanted without needing dalinar... Tarravodium wants an unbounded BondSmith to make capital C Connections throughout the worlds allowing Odium and the army to move quickly in the space opera war part of Cosmere.
15:45 could that refer to Vasher? but not in the context of the champion but in a regular way. Because everyone is compared to Vasher and heralds is a child. I am saying Vasher because it's says "breath".
1. I don't think "it had to be someone else" is the only answer to Taln not breaking. It's possible that Odium just found a way around it. Everything is different now, there's an Everstorm, Fused are returning in different ways. It doesn't have to be that another Herald died and broke.
2. If Shallan was able to kill a Herald, we're gonna need some kind of explanation. "She didn't expect it" doesn't make sense. These are iconically insanely good warriors. Taln caught two darts in mid-air while tripped out of his gourd. Ishar, who isn't even their best warrior, fought several Radiants with Blades, bare-handed. There's just no way that she was facing a person in a combat situation, who she knew could potentially have access to a Blade, saw her raise her arms to summon said Blade, and just ran straight into it. We'll need to hear some other justification for why she wouldn't think to dodge. Like they say in Tress, you simply do not live for thousands of years if your mindset is not to be careful just because the odds you'll get harmed by something are low. If you ignore every 1% chance that you die, then it's only 100 chances until you're at even odds of dying.
This is certainly possible, nothing disproves it, and most of the "evidence" I've seen for the theory is just "it hasn't been disproven." But if there is some explanation for how Shallan was able to kill a Herald, it could still happen.
As for Chana takes over for Shallan... she went through many Weepings. She'd be wholly out of stormlight. So she could not have kept the Lightweaving that she was half her own mass up permanently. And no, she didn't spend all the weepings hidden away, because she expressly killed her dad during the weeping.
It is far more likely that Gavinor is the champion. The taln theory, in terms of setup and foreshadowing would be more of a pull out of a hat than Adolin.
Shallash recognizes Taln in Oathbringer, the crazy man is not some imposter. Taln also never broke, and siding with odium (who designed the everstorm to get around Taln) would be tantamount to breaking.
Also, what significance is there for Wit to be waiting for him in way of kings if he’s just a red herring nobody?
Taravangian is a chess player and the baby champion theory makes more sense in universe and in character for him to pull that one out along with textual foreshadowing
I love this discussion, but the Taln theory is just not possible and not foreshadowed. What is likely is someone could have his honorblade, but Taln himself is big crazy Mr muscle, and not El who has told us who he is. Maybe El with Talns blade?
What about Nale ? As Odium champion. He is working with Odium. So why not?
51:42 Kaladin is sooooooo dead 😂
Moash doesnt need a redemption arch, he needs a everyone realizes he was right in Wok-OB an apologize for betraying him and help him beat odium and imperialist colonizers arch
Bruh, I could maybe get on board with that - until he killed Teft and his spren and repeatedly pushed Kalidan to commit suicide… F Moash