Hello all, there were a fair few comments concerning my brief comments in the video on diversity and inclusion, so I thought this was a great reason to do a fill video on that topic as it relates to my specific Stormlight thoughts and Fantasy in general! It's out now! ua-cam.com/video/RYqFt-sCWuE/v-deo.html
I agree with all of this. I saw someone saying he’s spent too much time on Reddit and just ticking boxes for what a vocal minority want. The therapy talk etc is so patronising
It honestly all just feels like tokenism. Pandering. I would love to read a good story about these topics, one where they come up organically and are integral to the plot. Sanderson's tokenism just feels like a corporation shoehorning these subjects in, as you said, to tick boxes.
I am just relieved to see what I have been witnessing since Oathbringer. I was labelled crazy, and a hater and just plain wrong for having all of these opinions years ago. Finally some vindication for readers seeing how sloppy Sanderson has become with his story telling over the last few years. His new editor has let him get away with his bloated prose for too long. A large part of what initially turned me off from the SLA anyway was the Marvelification of the series well before his writing tanked.
Yeah I think the signs have been there for a while but many people (myself included) were invested enough to look past them. I've found my investment waning and then WaT just completely turned me off the series
Funny enough Oathbringer was the last BrandoSando book I actually liked. Actively dislike RoW I almost didn't finish Lost metal I gaslight myself into thinking I actually liked Tress (I didn't) Sunlit man was so mid I dropped Yumi And I gave up un wind and truth on day four
I think most people wanted to see where the story went, myself included. Sunken Cost. Now that the series is "over" (taking a break), everyone is vocal about how this isn't how you conclude your first half.
Sanderson is definitely easy to read, in a literal sense. But reading what has essentially become the epic fantasy version of the MCU just becomes mind numbing. Diving into Malazan, Steven Erikson gets a bit more "flowery" with his prose but you trust him to bring everything together and he does. Joe Abercrombie feels very straightforward as well but god damn dude can write, especially characters. With Sanderson the "growth" or change were seeing is shower sex scenes, adolins spren calling him a slut and syl talking about her vagina.
Yeah, I agree, Brandon kinda lost me with the whole focus on mental health being so all-consuming. It was just too exhausting to read. I want mystery and intrigue and twists and turns-I want to escape-I don’t wanna feel like I’m having a struggle session with a bunch of random people in some fantasy world I’m still trying to understand. 😵💫
Rhythm of War would have been about 80% better if Kaladin had actually retained the character growth he had in the last few chapters of Oathbringer, rather than forgetting his "spear that would not break" epiphany until the end of Wind and Truth.
I'm a writer, and I recognize a rookie mistake a mile away: "She felt a feeling of dread." I'm 100% sure Brandon Sanderson didn't write this. It screams "fanfic-level 0.5." And that's nothing to say of the 'splainfest around the social justice issues.
I hate to say it because I've spent so much time reading this series, but I just don't like where it has gone and I lost interest in the characters. I just didn't care when I finished RoW and WaT. I will not be reading the second arc. I also get exhausted of the long investment for the "sanderlanche." it gets to a point where the routine is just not for me anymore.
Sanderson is a good writer. he builds worlds and characters well. But Stormlight has a Stephen King issue. He types too much. Andrew recently commented about a theory he has, and one I have had, that at some point a writer can get so big editors do not really edit and just accept every word and line.
It's the Lucas effect. George Lucas was held back by a bunch of people while making the og trilogy. They kept his creativity in check and rescued the og movies from being as shit as the prequels. Once he started to work on the prequels, he had amazed such an status, that nobody could tell him no. Leading to the hot trash the Prequels turned into ( the 6 movie was already suffering from this as well though). It also happened to the Hobbit movies unfortunately
I've noticed these tendencies too. It's like the story's become more and more artificial, as if Sanderson is so hyper-aware of all the individual parts and technicalities that go into a fantasy novel that he's no longer able to let it develop organically
This has kind of always been my problem with Sanderson even all the way back in Mistborn era 1 and I think it all comes back to his obsession with hard magic systems and strict rules. It makes all of his worlds and stories feel so arbitrary and constructed that it strains the suspension of disbelief. His books almost feel unintentionally meta-textual at times. Obviously every fictional world and story is arbitrary and constructed and in some way but other authors manage to hide the artificiality much better and their stories and worlds feel real and believable as a result. When you read something like LotR or ASoIaF it's like a window into a different world. The those places, people and events feel real. With Sanderson it's not so much looking through a window as much as looking at a corkboard. You see the individual pieces of a world and story and the strings connecting them but you're one layer removed, it's not the real thing and it never really becomes a cohesive whole.
When I was in high-school, I used to love books by Dean Koontz. Then once I figured out the formula, where each beat would hit, what and each character archetype was, with NO deviation, I stopped reading them. I think this is what is happening with Sanderson. I'm pretty sure I could write out a beat sheet and write my own Mistborn era.
I get what you’re saying, but I might disagree with you about the mental health aspect, way of kings is filled with characters struggling with their mental health and thinking about it. He’s less subtle about it now, I agree, but I think it’s always there. I will agree that this book didn’t need to be 1,300 pages haha but I still loved it lol
Yeah some of those aspects have already been there, but it feels like it's gotten much more "in your face" and forced whereas in WoK it was just there.
It was there, but it felt more organic at the start. Then it became less about the character and more about the theme - very in-your-face like with the 1-800-Get-Help chapter early in RoW.
@@nikosbookreviewsAre you sure you haven’t read the entire book if it is bothering you in the first few pages. I want to know what you think when Kaladins arc ends in this book. It will be super cringe for you. I rolled my eyes and ignored it but I can see it bothering others.
@@pretty5793 I have not, and I'm not sure if I'll end up picking it back up at this point, but I'll have to see! I've told people in Discord I'm totally fine with spoilers, so I'm sure I'll end up hearing about it.
When he started using a lot of modern American terminology and verbiage in the early chapters, it really took me out of the experience. How were these things not caught by the beta readers? If they were caught, why didn’t Sanderson fix it? I’m still not all the way through part one, but so far it hasn’t been as bad as those early chapters. Btw, I’m the past with all the stormlight books, I devoured them as fast as I could. For this one, I’m much less motivated. Still enjoying it overall…but I do feel it needed some more editing.
Yeah I was the same way with the past books, would read them non-stop when they came out and couldn't put them down, but I was feeling a lot less excited for this one...and yeah, just all that stuff early on really put me off the book
Can you give examples ? I'm nearly at the end and nothing shocked me as "modern lingo" that would date the book All the words borrowed from our world won't change (shit, therapy, "what the hell", etc.), maybe in a couple hundred years, but I don't think it's a relevant criticism at this point. Also, on a purely lore related note, the characters using those are Yolish in origin, or heard it from Yolish people, which serves as an indicator of how Yolish society could be (closer to our own modern world, which is something that has been speculated for a while) I get finding it grating, but I think the criticism here is unfair overall.
At the end of the day. Sanderson threw away his audience that consisted of people that actually enjoy epic fantasy, and hes replaced them with mainstream Sanderson glazers. Its the same type of people that see a new Marvel movie and trip over themselves to slop it up. This book will age terribly and serves as the gravestone of Sanderson as a writer. He cares more about pandering to mainstream than to being an artisan of his craft, and that is unforgivable to me. This is all before even stepping into the topic of him betraying his faith, doubling back on his word, and enabling child abuse.
it’s interesting when people propose that sanderson is the modern tolkien because even ignoring that tolkien is vastly superior to sanderson on a technical level, the absurd word count and interconnected universe that makes sanderson significant is the primary obstacle to mainstream appeal. hobb and martin also have massive word counts but are much more approachable for the average reader. asking someone to read 15+ enormous books to get the whole story is a very big ask
I feel the writing has been downhill starting with Rhythm of War. And that goes for all of Sanderson's work, not just Stormlight. Not a steep decline, but a decline nonetheless. Yumi was good, Tress was decent, but I was a little shocked at just how little I cared about Sunlit Man, especially considering who the main character is. I chalked it up to Sanderson being better at longform writing. I'm over halfway through Wind and Truth, and I started looking online at reviews to see if I was being too critical or if this book was another step down. You hit the nail on the head with this book. I think the biggest issue is that everything feels foregone, predictable. Did I want to know exactly what happened with Honor's death? Sure, but it felt obvious from the early chapters that he was not quite as great as people made him out to be. Saw Shalan's big twist coming from a mile away, too. The sense of mystery and mind-blowing conclusions from the first three books and Mistborn is gone. It becomes a little more frustrating when, instead of building on new mysteries or giving satisfying answers, Brandon wants to talk about everyone's mental state in excruciating detail. Let's take Jasnah for example. She has basically done nothing since Oathbringer. It feels like Brandon doesn't know what to do with her. Yet we are being given all of her inner thoughts, strategies, and insecurities for pages and pages, all leading up to her having one strategic breakthrough that ultimately makes no difference for her side. lol Now, I'm up to a part where it looks like she'll have a confrontation with Odium, but is that really going to be a defining moment? Especially when her uncle is going to face him like a day later anyway? This is just one example of how the story is being bogged down by things we don't need to know. And the reason Renarin's romantic subplot feels forced is because he comes from an extremely strict culture where women have to wear a glove on their hand or it's as bad as being nude and each gender has extremely strict guidelines to follow or you're seen as a freak by the general public. Yet, everyone Renarin comes into contact with encourages him, pushes him toward it, and is happy for him. He faces zero pushback from a society that cares about whether women wear a freakin' glove. Where's Sadeas to be a jerk when you need him? lmao This, and the general real-world language that some characters use, are great at taking me out of the story. There was one point when Syl said, "That's kinda racist," and I think my eyes rolled into the back of my head. Brandon has said that he's just translating Roshar phrases into English, but coming from the closest thing to Robert Jordan, coming from the guy who made up a thousand swear-words and phrases for his worlds, I think that's BS. It's lazy writing but thankfully balanced out by much better writing for different characters. Maybe the second half of the book will be better, and it's not like it's bad or anything. It just hasn't felt as strong as previous Sanderson books.
@@Cableguy15 Yeah RoW definitely started down the path of the writing changes, but they became so much more prevalent here. I also 100% agree that the "translating to English" thing is an excuse for lazy writing. It really is a huge thing that just takes me out of a story, especially when it's coming from the guy who has been known for creating immersive high fantasy worlds with their own religion, cultures, languages, etc.
"everyone renarin comes into contact with encourages him" besides Rlain, two of the characters who interact with him about it are also gay, and then there's shallan. That's not a lot of people engaging with it.
I’m in your exact same boat. I haven’t finished it and I’m probably not even half way through, but I don’t remember his writing being this terrible. I genuinely enjoyed Sunlit man and every one liner it had, RoW was a dip in writing but never a disappointment, it still had plenty of amazing moments. This book is just marvel tier Reddit slop and it’s heartbreaking. As soon as Renarin mentioned his internal feelings for Rlain I knew that the book would be a massive disappointment. For many of the reasons you touched on. I really hate the whole woke vs anti-woke culture war crap going on but I do need to mention that Sanderson’s pandering is getting out of hand. If Alethkar has such a strict social order, the idea of an openly gay relationship is unheard of. Even from Oathbringer, realistically there would have been far more pushback against female Windrunners on a government level, not just the common soldiers complaining about it. He built up such a society with traditions so ingrained it would be abhorrent to break, but casually degrades them overtime with little pushback. If he wants to have the breaking of social norms in the story that’s fine, but it should be an actual struggle, not just a conversation and a “coming out” moment that’s begrudgingly accepted. It took decades of efforts in history for women to get the right to vote, and even longer for gay marriage, why is the social foundation of Alethkar, one built up over millennia, toppled like a house of cards?
I agree with this 100%. I love some of the twists and the final 60 pages of wind and truth but the execution and getting there was so rough. The humor and dialogue was downright bad sometimes. 95% of kaladins arc in this book except the very end is just really poorly written introspection which feels like it was just taken from the cognitive behaviour therapy wiki page .This was a noticeable step down from even early books like Elantris imo.
I think that the story itself is still very good, but WaT was definitely a rather large step down in writing. Brandon NEEDS a good editor that isn't afraid to criticize him and help him become a better author. I hope he's ironed out these issues by Stormlight 6, which is going to be in like 9 years so that should be enough time for him to improve, lol.
Yeah, this was my chief complaint with the book as well. I loved the actual narrative and thus was able to really enjoy this book despite its writing flaws. But the lengthy internal monologues and heavy-handed communication of themes really distracted me from the story and broke my immersion at times. I feel like most of these issues could have been addressed in the editing.
I really wish that Brandon had Harriet. As in Robert Jordan's widow/editor Harriet. I just keep on thinking about how much she must have put Brandon to sweat when he helped finished the Wheel of Time. You could sort of tell in interviews he's done about it. Even though I finished - Wind and Truth, and felt the last 30% of the text ended well, it was a schlog for me.
At his size, a 9 year wait is a bad idea to start the next 5 book arc. Then add another 12ish years to finish the remaining 4 books. Brandon's health might be unfortunately a factor by then
Stereotypical door stopper fantasy. I probably would have gotten into it at age 11-13. But I was reading other door stoppers at the time, and got my fill.
People were praising him before they noticed the decline in quality. The only notceibly "bad" book he made prior was RoW, but people could brush that off. Now it's been what? 5 years and half a dozen books and people are noticing the decline. Obviously his dialogue was always juvenile, but that really wasn't the main draw to his books anyway.
I must say I agree with just about everything here. I'm about 10 hours into the audiobook and nothing is hooking me. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks the prose quality has actually gone down. Characters don't feel distinct anymore and all of them seem to have gained mentalities and viewpoints that they didn't have before
I think it should be noted that the stormlight archive appeals to a large religious audience because of its lack of sex and language and secular philosophies and Wind and Truth has betrayed that. To a small extent I’ll grant, but not a small extent to everyone. I had to dnf as well because some things made me uncomfortable as a religious person.
@ When did I say that’s what made me dnf? When did I say I was mad? Also, if somebody was drawn to Sanderson because of the lack of swearing, why wouldn’t they be frustrated about sudden use of language?
Saying shit isn’t the issue, Syl explaining in detail how she made a Chull head in place of her genitals, joke or not, is vulger, stupid, and exists only for shock value. Also the cosmere has featured extremely creative cursing relevant to each world that works perfectly. Why erase that in favor of real world hazbin hotel style writing? Vulgarity is acceptable when used in moderation, not when Jasnah essentially says “donkey Bollocks” 3 times in a row because she’s angry. That’s millennial level garbage that you’d find in a Netflix original. All it does is remove any impact the words had as if a middle schooler wrote them.
@@prestonmichael7843 People are uncomfortable with someone who doesn't sin. If you're at a social gathering and everyone decides to have a snack and you decline, nobody will notice. If you're at the same social gathering and everyone decides to have a beer and you decline, people will notice. This is the same thing. If you say you didn't like the book because the characterization or plot were bad, that's fine. If you say you didn't like the book because there was too much sex or profanity, people won't like that. People get defensive at encountering someone turning away from sin when they embraced it. Their conscience convicts them but they project it onto the other person as being judgmental instead.
I think I'm just outgrowing it. When I read Way of Kings, I was a kid in high school. It's been over a decade since and my tastes in reading and stories have changed. And I just remind myself that it's okay; I have fond memories of Words of Radiance in particular, and still consider it one of the best fantasy novels I've ever read, but I'm into different stories and though I'll likely give WaT a try, I won't care too much if it doesn't work for me.
That's a great way to look at it for sure, and I'm definitely in the same boat. I've read a ton more and had my taste change a lot over the years as well.
@@Broniminso true , he writes like a middle grader. His characters aren’t human they are just boring. That whole bridge run thing was the boring crap I’ve ever read and it went on forever!! I only finished way of kings because everyone kept saying it was genius. It’s like an alien pretending to write human emotions. And I’m a huge Sanderson fan of his podcast just his books are dreadful. I love John Gwynne , rothfus and Joe Abercrombie which I read after way of kings, and it was like , oh boy this is great it’s a breath of air and feels real.
This analogy will help you all understand why you are waking up from the dream that the cosmere is amazing and not just generic/AI feeling crap. Sanderson is to Nickelback as Rothfuss is to Nirvana. Nickelback know how to make a popular song and it sort of sounds like music , but it’s not music and it’s definitely not art.
I finished it, thought it was good (gave it a 7.5/10), and definitely agree with you about many points. So much introspection, overanalyzing/over explaining of feelings and thoughts, and way way way too heavy-handed when it comes to anything mental health related. I'll definitely continue reading Sanderson, but I don't think ever I'll do a reread again. I reread all of Stormlight before Wind and Truth, and by the end, his weaknesses as a writer were so apparent and exhausting. Also, your point about characters is spot on. Sanderson's characters now just feel like a checklist of personality traits, quirks, and mental health issues, rather than an actual living person.
I'm glad you still enjoyed it, but I can get not wanting to reread. I reread the whole thing prior to each book up through RoW, and that's where I fell off doing that myself. Still definitely plenty to enjoy, but yeah the change has been very big
@@nikosbookreviews The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance are by far the best Stormlight books, and honestly some of the best fantasy I've ever read. It's crazy how different books 4/5 feel compared to books 1/2
This book broke me. Such an utter failure. I’m a cosmere god in my friend group. I’ve reread every cosmere book multiple times. But WaT is analysis paralysis at its worst. By the start of WaT we’ve read over 4,000 pages of stormlight books, you dont need to explain a characters reasoning for every action, we know. You don’t need to say why this moment matters, we KNOW. For one who writes about broken characters who embrace setbacks but strive to change and be better - it’s unbelievable how little he’s invested in trying to be a better writer or find a capable editor. Quantity > Quality by Brandon Sanderson.
Yeah I'm unfortunately in a very similar spot here, it just isn't the quality of the earlier books, and without major changes I feel like it can only go further downhill
The mental health focus is ironic because reading Wind and Truth (100 chapters in) makes me feel like I am going crazy. Seeing all these people fawning over it and then here I am thinking this is the worst damn thing I have ever read.
I totally agree with this review. I am so disappointed in the Kaladin character arc. Kaladin as a therapist is just so unsatisfying. The writing is so bad at times! The modernisms, the preachy mental health and inclusion elements, the cringy sexual elements and humor, the modern curse words, and the over exposition of internal feelings all combined to continuously pull me out of the story. I also DNF'd the book and returned it. I am done with Stormlight.
I wish I could return mine. I didn't ask for a receipt though (overconfident I would like it). I will probably try to sell it on ebay, though I pity the buyer.
I think this far into the series (book 5 of his 10-books-magnum opus of his interconnected world) there's a fair expectation that you know some background info
This is the only honest review i have found that doesn't lean into full culture war slop posting. Good insights into what's happened to Sanderson's writing over time
Yes yes and more yes! The appeal to the market versus quality writing has been painful to experience. The first two/three books were classic literature quality, and it’s gone down hill from there. No, it’s extended beyond Stormlight. The Lost Metal was such a drop in quality - it was almost fan fiction level bad in my opinion.
@@abo8158 Sanderson has always had pretty basic prose overall, but yeah there was just a big shift to try to make it even more accessible it feels like the further we got in the series
Losing his longtime editor after Oathbringer (Book 3) exposed his need for a solid creative team to me on Books 4 & 5. He has alpha, beta, gamma, and sensitivity readers. He has loremasters and researchers. And all their comments, when applied back into the writing, require a deft editor. I'll keep reading but, I recognize that the Cosmere has a creative team that's going to keep changing and may move away from my tastes at some point.
sensitivity readers??? are you serious?!?! that is all you need to hear to understand that this in nothing but a corporate product and should be treated as such.
I agree with most of what you're saying. I managed to get through about 30% of the book before I decided to DNF it and only read the rest of Kaladin's chapters because at that point I just wanted to know how his (and Syl's) arc ended and didn't give a shit about anything else anymore. I'm still kind of in disbelief that half a year of looking forward to the release of this book lead up to this: massive disappointment. Every character has become a shell of their former self, the book reads as fanfiction at times due to the modern/YA language use, and the attempts at humor are just so painfully cringy. Don't get me wrong, The Way of Kings will always hold a special place in my heart and I still respect Sandersson for having created this captivating world and intriguing story, but I'm so glad I only started reading Stormlight Archive in February so I didn't waste years of my life being invested in this series. Apologies for the rant, I needed to vent a little lol.
Rant is totally okay, and I actually 100% agree that this felt like fanfiction, I made the same comment talking with some others about this. I've unfortunately been reading from the start lol
I agree with your criticism. I've just finished Wind and Truth and am left with an odd mix of satisfaction and disappointment. The lessons seems to be that everybody is just a person, including our heroes and our villains and the author Brandon Sanderson himself. Understanding the villains as just people takes away from their scary villain character and it does feel that some characters who were built up to be scary villains fell short in this book. And there was a character who could have been a great villain reveal but it turns out I was wrong about that. We've had 4 years of theory crafting which has been fun but I've noticed that the longer the break time went on the crazier and more elaborate the theories got. I might have enjoyed the book more if I had gone in straight from RoW. Oh well, I still enjoyed the ride and it is unfair to have too high expectations of the author / any one book. Too high expectations ruin your experience. Also I need to say something about it: There are a couple of scenes that trigger me because they feel like they are not necessary for the plot but only there to appeal to the Woke Zeitgeist. I love the intricate world building and the story overall but did you really need a transgender soldier? Did you really need a conversation about how it feels to be neither male nor female? There is a gay love story and I didn't mind it too much because it takes its time to explore it without being too in your face. But the other stuff was just not meaningful in any way to the story.
@@Rhedak Glad you still enjoyed your time! I do think Sanderson is coming from a good and genuine place with trying to include those elements, but the examples I've seen have just felt very clunky and I think could have been executed a lot better.
@@arenkaiI mean is he wrong? You can dislike what he is saying. But if we are gonna spend time in epic fantasy focusing on homosexual relationships. Why wait till book 5 and the finale of an arc. Why not come out swinging in way of kings with it? Kaladin and Moashe would have been hot. The answer couldn’t possibly be that, Brandon is tired of answering questions about the lack of representation in Stormlight? You may not like using the word Woke. But that doesn’t mean Sanderson isn’t doing exactly what the guy was saying. It almost feels like Stormlight was bought by Disney, and they have got to work destroying it like they did the McU and Star Wars. Just for the record I liked most of book 5. Can’t wait for book 6, and I was best man at my gay best friends wedding in 2004 before all this woke crap. Also i would like to give a tip to the guy who made this video. Just completely Skip Shallan and Renarin. I can tell you with experience that what they do in this book has 0 impact on the overall story. I’m not joking… they could not be in this book and not a single thing would change. If you made it this far in the series I think it’s worth finishing. There are a few parts that’s worth the journey imo. And the end of book 5 is a good place to stop if you never decide to read again… I was honestly on the fence about this book… but like I said, I’m game for book 6.
@@Theb0YWh0lived1 We just going to pretend we didn't have an entire section of Oathbringer dedicated to bridge four talking about Drehy's sexuality and the wider societal implications in Alethkar vs Azir? Sounds good. Carry on.
Well said, all around. Lift's inclusion in the series turned me off almost immediately. When she came back in Book 3, I also noticed how the quality of the writing dropped pretty steeply. Then she made the "Old man butt" joke, and I put the series down forever. Sanderson can't decide what tone he wants for this series, and it shows.
@@secretfirebooks7894 The Lift style humor seemed to be happening with everyone early on on WaT which absolutely was a big part of what turned me off as well
@nikosbookreviews Wow. Yeah, that must be brutal. I talked to a friend recently, and he said the same thing you did about the editing. I highly doubt Sanderson has been actually challenged by an editor for years.
I mean, Lift is a crude teenage girl with no concept of decency. I think her tone is in line with the character she is. As is the case with every character in the series.
@@secretfirebooks7894 I happen to love her character so I guess that's why I don't connect with your opinion. A lot of people don't like Lift though, so I can see where those criticisms are coming from.
Thank you for this video, Niko! I enjoyed the first two books in The Stormlight Archives, but Oathbringer became a bit of a slog for me. Having heard that Rhythm of War gets into the magic system a lot, I’ve been reluctant to read it. After hearing your criticisms, I actually think I’ll stick to my resolution to read RoW and WaT in 2025, but with tempered expectations.
Great point about the overall focus of the books shifting towards character introspection and self-discovery journeys. I disagree about the representation aspects feeling inorganic to the story, but unfortunately there with you on the other points. There’s just way too much clunky introspection and too many 21st century modernisms with the word choices for me to easily stay immersed like I had been in the previous books. And the humor is hitting less often for me too which isn’t great (or just seeming more forced). Considering how much I still enjoyed the Cosmere secret projects and the Lost Metal I’m hopeful it’s not an issue that’s going to extend too far into his other books.
So much of what you've said is why I've stopped reading it for now (finished day 3). I was honestly a bit pissed when there were actual curse words in the book. I know quite a few people who like to listen to Sanderson books with their kids because there are no actual curses. I've also been annoyed going back to RoW how many cosmere connections there are. I wish he had finished era one of every series before he went "full cosmere." My first Cosmere book was Way of Kings, and that was fine because at that point only the first 3 books were out. Now I have a couple friends who have started with Way of Kings and it kind of sucks telling them that they should really stop after book 3 (if not earlier) and read these other 20 books first.
@@PatrickRyanBookReviews Yeah I expected the Cosmere connections part to become more of an obstacle, but the writing was the big thing that just seemed to really, really change.
Agree on the curses and there are other scenes and themes that are just less family/kid friendly and pulled me out of the fantasy of the book. They also don't add to the story.
The carving up of Singer bodies and removing their carapace to be stitched together into armor in WoR was alright for children, but saying "ass" isn't? I want to bring this point up without slumping into UA-cam comment negativity, I just want to outline that adult themes have always been present, and honestly, realistically, it was the lack of swearing that always seemed a little oddly cleaned up. At least to me. I'm just one guy with a perspective that isn't universal or inherently correct.
Most of Brandon's book is not family friendly. And I dont think they're meant to be. Tress and Yumi are possibly the only family friendly books. The other either has gore / psychological theme / war / horror / sex
Wind and truth solidified that I’m not a Sanderson fan. Feels YA and I can see the gears turning, characters moving to serve the plot --and it’s just too sanitized and mechanical.
@@qrevolution "Feels YA" when it's marketed as Adult Fantasy is definitely a criticism for me personally. Sanderson has always straddled the line with YA and Adult, but this definitely felt way younger reading
I think Stormlight has always been more about the characters than the worldbuilding, it’s literally filled with flashbacks that aim to provide context for our characters while also advancing their journeys simultaneously. I agree that it’s less subtle now, but I’m around 40% into WaT and I’m not seeing any big difference so far. The prose is worse, it seems even more accessible than before which is probably too accessible, but I think that’s fine, Sanderson’s always aimed at making it easy for anyone to understand. The words like “Therapy” and other words from real life are fine for me, I just imagine it has an in-world translation, or even a string of words to explain, but because the story is being read to Earthlings, we see the word as we know it. The LGBT thing is (so far in the story) a complete non-issue for me. There’s 2 minor characters that are flirting, in a series with 100s of named characters. It’s barely mentioned and pretty subtle so far, I don’t even think about it. The humor is not interesting to me, but it’s never been the reason why I love Sanderson’s works. All in all, you give fair criticisms but I think they kind of melt away when you stray away from the assumption that Sanderson is supposed to be the greatest writer of our time. He has weaknesses like any other writer, and his strengths are still impressive. I guess the early stormlight books introduced his formula to a lot of people, and it gets less impressive the more we have of it, I just try to appreciate it in spite of this, and there’s still twists and turns that I find still enjoy. There’s some stuff I didn’t necessarily liked (Kaladin’s 4th ideal felt obvious and I just knew what would happen) but like I read 30 cosmere books and I’m bound to be able to understand the direction some plot lines are going towards, otherwise I’m just an idiot. I’m also someone who does not read a lot or fast, I’m fine with the book taking me 3 months to finish, which makes me the ideal target for Sanderson. I want accessible writing, I like information to be repeated as I likely read only one chapter per day, and I’m invested in the characters’ journeys. Maybe someone like you, who reads a lot, started to get bored with this, and that’s fine, but I think it comes more from you than from him. It’s like me with music that I used to love 5 years ago that’s become less interesting as I listened to more records. Did the music change or did I? Not to say Stormlight’s writing didn’t change, but perhaps your preferences also did.
Sadly disagree, read all these books recently and the quality just seemed to drop overall. I know you said you were fine with a lot of the changes, but at the same time you had to go through four and five reasons validating why it may not be that important, but so many of those ideas and notes for most people I believe are hugely interesting
Great perspectives! This has been the most conflicting book I’ve read in a while. Not sure if I’m reading a story or a spur of the moment idea that an author wrote in a napkin and decided to publish it without any formal editing process. The language and prose is a major step down from TWOK, which was a superior book in terms of presenting ideas with a clear yet sophisticated use of the language. The prose in WaT is suffused with modern vernacular, which strangely affects the story’s quality. Rather than enjoying the story by completely immersing in it, I find myself constantly asking why good prose decided to go goodbye.
This is off topic but I started reading the Tad Williams Otherland series. I had bought the books several years ago off Amazon. I started getting into book, one, but after page 109 it suddenly jumped to page 138 and thus left some of the story out, and I was so depressed about that, I never went back to it. I noticed there were even a few other pages out of place when I looked ahead a bit. Have you ever had that happen to a book before? It was a new book as well! I'll have to buy the first book again somewhere lol. The book started slow, but seems to have great reviews.
So funnily enough, I've had two books like that...and they were The Way of Kings and The Gathering Storm 🤣 Both have the missing parts available online for free so I never bothered replacing them though. Also I still need to get to Otherland, I love Williams' Osten Ard books!
@@nikosbookreviews oh wow that's crazy. I had actually looked online to see if anyone else was experiencing missing pages with the Otherland book and I couldn't find anything, so the only explanation, is maybe it was just an isolated printing error.
@@down-the-rabbit-hole Yeah sometimes there's a batch like that but usually they're pretty isolated, not a normal thing I've come across by any means but does happen!
@@duffypratt yea that happened to one of my books, there were like 25 pages that were out of place and placed in the middle of the book. Totally ruined it for me.
I’m really glad I’m not the only one who’s been thinking this. The scene from finding Nemo when the Dad’s faces slowly degrade from excitement to confused disappointment is a good visual of how it feels to read this book. I’m not even halfway through and I’m not sure if I even want to finish it. After the first few chapters I thought I had just outgrown Sanderson. I’ve read a lot of other books since RoW including blood meridian and Thus Spoke Zarathustra, so I thought my tastes had just evolved to want a higher level of prose. Then I realized that Sunlit man isn’t that old, and it had barely any pitfalls present in WaT. Yumi and Tress had wonky dialogue, but they still had a decent hook, a sense of adventure, and a genuine feeling of satisfaction after finishing them. There is very little of that in WaT if any! What sucks for me is I was really hyped about Shinovar. It was the Japan but with white people of Roshar for me and I was excited to see how it functioned. It blows my mind how Sanderson was able to make both Shinovar and the backstory of my favorite character dull and boring! Maybe more happens later in the story but atm it’s a boring Banjoe Kazooe fetch quest.
My biggest issue was that this book wasn’t satisfying closure to the first arc. Readers should be able to jump off here but there are so many cliffhangers. This appeals to people obsessed with cosmere etc… I wish the SA were standalone! Great video
I did hear some others say it felt like it was setting up a lot for the back half instead of feeling like a satisfying conclusion; I can definitely get that being super disappointing
Finish the book before judging it. Its an epic fantasy novel not a cheese burger, every bite DOES NOT hit the same. 80 pages is not enough to make an educated analysis even if you have read 800 pages of other peoples opinions. The books have always been about characters introspection. Every single book devotes chapteters many chapters to painstaking introspective character development in the form of flashbacks to support the mental condition of the character arc. These have always been character driven books, they are in close 3rd person perspectives with all the commentary in every book being part of said character development. With thay said, wind and truth was a bit heavy handed and the pace was faaaast! But this also makes sense if you follow his writing teaching/ philosophies. This book itself was the finale of the series and for those of you who read e1 book 3 of MB this should be no spoiler. When Brando finishes he goes hard now make that the finish to the series he follows that same formula but doubles down. I'm not suggesting it's perfect by any means. It's not! After reading every other book the man had written I was very unsuprised by the ending. But it was still read worthy. And if haven’t read the whole thing and are only getting your thoughts from trolls you won't have a clear picture on the resons why it was great despite it's many flaws. But remember, the point has always been the Journey. Journey before destination, friends ✨️
I wish i'd dnf'd it, but like a massive car crash, I just could not look away despite my horror at regular intervals in this waste of a book. I agree with you man - and I can tell you, you missed literally nothing. Kal, the backbone of SA, was sidelined the ENTIRE book, wandering around Shinovar playing a bloody flute. And it only makes you madder as you go on lol so good on you! There were some cool moments, but it was so shit overall it was bewildering. Mental health went from being a theme to an Idol in this book, and this process started last book you are right. And it has destroyed his story, it's incredible. I'm also a huge cosmere nut, have read all the books, all the qna's, all the secret projects - ALL of it. 15 years man, wasted. And this is the only time ive ever felt so betrayed by what is supposed to be a concluding arc in a series. It has blown my mind, good to see i'm not alone.
Yeah I had lowered expectations starting WaT for sure, but I just was so immediately turned off of it that I had to put it down...and the comments like this really make me feel it was the right decision, I'd be right there with you with just having all that investment ruined
Wait why is Kal becoming the support-role a bad thing? Any mortal need rest after what Kaladin had gone through. I'm happy reading this book knowing all Kaladin does is learn to make soup and play flute. The lad needs rest. The fighting-hard part is taken over by the other guys (Adolin finally get to taste what it feels as a lowly soldier in war) And it's not like he didn't fight at all. He did, albeit infrequently, but he was badass.
@@Iluvatar196 The issue is that he really doesn't contribute anything at all until the very end. You can omit the majority of the chapters entirely and nothing would be lost.
I haven’t read this one yet. And haven’t read any of the secret project books either. Not sure if I will. His non-Cosmere books have always rubbed me the wrong way, and struck me as being a bit lazy. Then I started to see the same sort of thing creep into the second era of Mistborn, which I abandoned after the second book. Rhythm of War was a pretty large step down from Oathbringer, which was already slipping a little from the first too books. Sanderson is in the enviable position of being able to do anything he likes with his writing. It’s disappointing to me that what he likes is to become a factory, churning out superhero books that masquerade as high fantasy (but superhero books have always been his niche). On the other hand, for his fans I suppose that’s better than what George Martin has decided to do (or not to do) with his freedom.
I'm about a third of the way through the book right now, with no real motivation to continue (other than tearing into it in my own review), so videos like this are really refreshing to see. I too have been a massive fan of the cosmere for years and years, and I've read everything, but this has been a noticeable decline in quality to the point that I doubt I'll continue with the cosmere at all. What a shame.
I'm unfortunately very likely in the same boat. I'm not sure if I'll pick this one back up, and from there it brings the Cosmere as a whole into question for me.
I read Way of Kings and jumped off once I saw he was going to start releasing novellas in between books and tying things into the broader cosmere too much. Out of curiosity when each book is released I check out the reddit and try to keep up with the main events. This has become absolutely impossible. People are basically speaking a different language. All the terminology is just exhausting. Sanderson may have simple language in his books but they are the opposite of newcomer friendly. People just getting into fantasy will be turned away by the bloated complexity of it all. He's a fantasy author for fantasy fans. You can speculate about how every tiny bit of his worldbuilding relates to each other in new and interesting ways. But if you don't keep up with all of it, then it's just impenetrable. I need to make notes, charts and do do homework to read his books. They are no longer for me, and unfortunately, many other fantasy authors have taken Sanderson's success as a licence to also write their own books this way. I read less and less fantasy every year.
Yeah it's definitely been heading into that direction more and more, and even having read all the other Cosmere stuff, it's still a lot to keep track of for sure! It definitely makes the barrier to entry a lot higher
Thank you for this. It's been so hard to find anyone reviewing the book to discuss the changes over time, especially in this last book. I've spent so much time in these books to feel so let down at the end of this first arc. I had done the math and was already pretty certain I wouldn't live to see the end of the full 10 books and was talking myself into being "OK" with completing the first 5...now, I'm not. I don't even want to think how much money I've put into Sanderson only to be this disappointed.
I can definitely get the disappointment! It's weird for me not having any desire to finish the book when yeah it was something that I have been so invested in for so long!
@nikosbookreviews I finished it today. I can say you made a better decision to DNF than I did by forcing myself to finish. I was most disappointed in how much I just didn't care about this story. I'm used to that feeling by other authors, but Brandon used to be on my "must buy" no matter what. But much of his recent (past 5 years maybe?) just is not the same quality. I bought all the way into the "year of Sanderson" and holy crap was that several hundred dollars of disappointment. I feel like Brandon needs a real friend, one who can tell him he's drifted away from what made him this successful.
100% agree with everything in this video, wind and truth was such a terrible book in my eyes, filled with the authors mental vomit. and thats not to mention how terrible the plot is.
As a gay man you're completely right, im exhausted seeing fellow queer people worship low effort representation and I wish we could stop settling for scraps
@@Rhaenyssupporter I do feel like Sanderson is coming from a good place here, but yeah the execution wasn't there. I did actually just have a video come out this morning where I talk about the topic more broadly as well since I was brief in this video
Oddly kind of offensive to have the Gay POV character be a notably effeminate character who can’t fight. Also weird for it to be an inter species relationship between two cultures who each have a well defined and strict social order between the sexes. Why is the modern gay character always written as a weak effeminate femboy? Id legit rather see Colonol Volgin style characters. Why not focus in Dreyhy?
I just finished, and I regret reading Wind and Truth. I have never been so let down by a book my entire life. Rhythm of War had it's problems but still had a great ending. This one was just BAD. I am so sad, because this series should have been his Magnum Opus.
@@exaggeratedhistory Hey, It's OK to like the book, but there is no denying that it was not what was promised from book 1, like Niko points out in this video. It just didn't work for me.
I really liked it, and seeing these comments I don't understand why so many people didn't like it (I'm a Spanish speaker, I don't know if that could have any influence). But I'd like you to tell me why you didn't find it good.
without watching the video, I'll just list things I've really grown to dislike with the stormlight archive: 1. Increasing use of "COSMERE" references in books that require knowledge of other books unrelated to the stormlight archives. Before, it used to be little easter eggs that were rewarding to find as a Sanderson fan, but now its very in your face and just.. too much. 2. Prose has never been a strong point for Sanderson, but the extensive use of modernisms in wind and truth is crazy to me, like adolin saying troubleshoot?? and other examples that I can't exactly remember because I cringed inside and tried to skim past as fast as possible. 3. I just dislike sanderson's comedy. It's like everyone in the Cosmere has the same definition of "comedy" and its just stuff that Wit would say, but said by other characters. This is personal preference though, so most can disregard it probably. 4. He needs a better editor. Seriously. Some of the plot decisions in Wind and Truth were inexcusably bad. Like really bad.
I agree with point 2-4. But for point 1, I think this far into the series, anyone reading book 5 of his 10-books-magnum opus of interconnected world, is expected to have some background info
@@beanpork508 This is one of the core series of Cosmere along with Mistborn saga and Dragonsteel. If you find the references like "in your face" now, then the second half will be pretty much like "shove down your throat".
I aggree with you on the issue of Cosmere awareness being more essential which is a problem, but at the same time, I don't want Sanderson to limit himself just to make the stories more self contained. As for the real world stuff getting representation, I feel like all of those things were always there but they are a bit more heavy handed in this one. I'm not sure how I feel about the word "Therapist" in my fantasy novel.
You said not to be a dick. I hated this book. None of the comedy lands. This book is 500 pages too long. A few epic moments. I almost DNF this thing. However , it is as actually fair that you didn’t finish this book - you need to get the entire experience as the last 1/3 feels like it’s written by a different author entirely. At some point the POV shifts become schizophrenic. Really disliked book
I can absolutely appreciate your comments, and also appreciate you not being a dick 🤣 To be honest even the first 80 pages felt like a different author to.me
@ for sure that’s my point. In fact, skip to chapter like 85 and just read from there and it’ll actually feel like the good part of Sanderson a bit. Compared to the first halfish felt .. seriously like a brand new college author or something. Terrible :)
Thank you for this fresh and honest perspective. All I see is "reviewers" who are seemingly full of vapid, generic praise for this book series. Knowing how popular this series is, they no doubt want to give their audience what they want to hear, lest they be accused of "not being a quality book reviewer" because, after all, _if I liked these books, then surely any quality book reviewer will like it too._ Furthermore, imo there's likely many Sanderson fans out there who have invested so heavily into the Cosmere universe and lore, that they're now extremely bias for any news that they've made the right choice, similar to the the Sunk Cost Fallacy. Anyway, thanks again! Liked and subscribed 😊👍
@@munen-muso Just from talking to people I do think a lot of people that enjoyed it did legitimately enjoy it even if they noticed the same issues I did. I get it as someone who has been very invested, sometimes that makes you look past a lot, but this was way too much for me to look past and it just took me right out
No offense bt if u Tell me this is the guy that wrote hero of ages i will disbelief We have fallen from inspiration to mediocrity From Vin's sacrifice to just giving up. I think this is the destination for me,continue on guys bt i can assure u this series aint worth waiting for 10 years
@@Iluvatar196 I just think... To me... The first 4 books weren't any kind of ending either, but each felt like a complete story. This was wide open at the end.
You've echoed a lot of concerns I've had about the series. I loved what I had read of Stormlight when I was getting back into Fantasy about 5 years ago but since then my taste has changed and expanded so I've been waiting in the wings to see how Wind and Truth is received to determine how soon I'll restart the series. Of Stormlight Archive, all I've read are Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, Edgedancer and about half of Oathbringer. Loved WoK and WoR but disliked Edgedancer immensely and Oathbringer was wrong timing on my part. Outside of those, I've found reading Sanderson to be a fairly mediocre experience, and as someone who has 0 interest in the wider Cosmere (I'm not sure just how unpopular that is amongst Stormlight readers), the supposed increading reliance on it has been one of the driving factors of me not having restarted the series. Another grievance I have (and this is super subjective) is Sanderson's humour. I don't find his writing funny, especially for characters like Lift and Hoid. For Shallan it kinda sorta worked cuz i think its meant to be cringe, at least that's how I read it. Authors like Abercrombie, Adams and Pratchett is more my sense of humour. Hard Magic Systems are fine and all but I never get the sense Sanderson trusts me the reader to eventually remember it, especially since there's graphs and diagrams in the back.
Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head with a lot of this, and you're not alone with not being interested outside of Stormlight, that's somewhat common for those who came to Sanderson late. I will say that the humor from Edgedancer has become VERY prevalent and not just with Lift, I cringed so many times in the first hundred pages which is what made me put it down lol
Finally someone who’s saying what everyone’s thinking… so many big UA-camrs singing its praises. But as someone who read 25 of his books this year, this is noticeably way way worse than what we should expect. The writing is cringy and borderline garbage at times. I loved him but he’s really taken a downward turn here which makes me sad given how invested I’ve been.
Renarlain was forced, there is a Stormlight written one dimension way from ours that doesn't have that; just allows Renarin to form a true friendship across species lines, not everything is love; his character needs to learn friendship hes still so awkward jumping to love was forced. your point on the tonal change is true, great review, I still loved the audiobook and Kaladin+Szeth's arcs were well written, as well as the "old lore" with the herald vision sequence and Nale tagging along info dumping. It had emotional pulls, so I will still read the Sandman but I DO dissapointinglty recommend him to "oh you read the Lightning Thief? You'd love Storm/Mystborn it's smidge above YA"
Hey dude I’m also a fellow booktuber. I made a video on how I didn’t particularly like Mistborn. However I’m on the last 2 books of Wheel of Time and I’m loving what Sanderson has done in honoring Jordan and his style. A lot of my subscribers say I’ll love Way of Kings. But now I’m hearing a lot about how book 5 in this saga has fallen flat. Makes me sad and curious. Is it still worth it? Love your channel just subscribed
That's tough, because I really enjoyed Mistborn, but I think you'd very likely still really like Way of Kings and the first few. A lot of people had issues the further it got overall myself included.
Finally an honest review! Thank you for speaking up, Brandon needs honesty here, we need to get the heart back at book 6 for any chance to save this series. Great job! Keep it up!
Agree. Tell it. He used to be more subtle, less preachy. Now he has entire chapters which are just dialogue to show his political viewpoints. His agenda is prevalent in Wind and Truth. No longer is he open ended. This book had little plot, lots of meaningless meandering and side characters, and a ridiculously overpowered enemy. His cosmere connections are killing the coherence of individual books. His lack of a developmental editor with the balls to say no really shows. Wind and Truth could have been 600 pages. Tight narrative moving the plot for Dalinar/Navani, Kaladin/Szeth, Shallan. Rlain/Renarin could have been an interlude. Sigzil is a minor character and should have been cut. Instead we get 1000 pages of flashback and dialogue standing around, and only a few hundred pages with anything happening. Further, it seems ridiculous to have basically god, demigods, 80% of the worlds nations, and the immortal indigenous against like less than a stadium full of Alethis and Azish who are out of gas. And we have to make sure we over explain in 5th grade prose every thought and action. I almost wish everyone just died, Moash took the Dawnshards and shards of Adonalsium and wins. As a postscript: go read chapter 114, Jasnah debate with Taravangian. Then go read a few chapters of Malazan. Notice the difference.
Considering most of booktube (ime) is rarely critical of his work, this was a really interesting listen. I’m sorry a series you loved so much is getting farther away from what made you love it in the first place. I’ve tried a couple of his books, and while I found them technically solid, his storytelling just isn’t for me. And the humor, at least as it was in Yumi, is very much not for me. If that is the case with his team and such (which I assume it is), it really puts me in mind of when (iirc) Anne Rice stopped working with her editor after book 3 in her Vampire Chronicles series. We suddenly went from decadent but intentional prose to multiple pages hyper-fixating on underwear or buttresses. And I can think of a few popular musicians who could also benefit from being told “no” on occasion lol. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts! And I appreciate you keeping it real, even with an author you’ve loved.
Yeah Sanderson has been such a big part of Fantasy for so long that many people I think just look past issues because of the nostalgia, which I get, but it's just really getting so far from what I loved about it sadly. I do agree you can see it with some other authors as well as musicians and other mediums as well, sometimes you get so big you can do whatever you want, and it's not always a good thing for sure!
Spot on with this series’s problems. I read the first book and thought this would be an all time series for me and still may be but as it has gone along, something is changing and rubbing me the wrong way. It’s not the vastness of the cosmere, but it is the way he is going about the writing like you mentioned. I couldn’t quite put it into words, and I think you explained my criticisms very well. Thanks for the video
I am about half way through the book and I don't think it's forced but it is more direct. I think the real issue with the book is that 1200 pages is just too many pages for a narrative that canonically happens over just 10 days. There is more than enough room for the story Sanderson is telling with Renarin and Rlain in 1200 pages but it doesn't feel appropriate for 10 days of narrative time. Combine that with the fact that those are two characters that have orbited around the edges of the story and have never really been given the spotlight until now and you end up with a lot of screen time being dedicated to them which they both deserve but Wind and Truth was probably not the best time to do that given the narrative constraints on the story.
There's a wide range of opinions on prose for sure! I do tend to enjoy elevated prose more, but I feel like he's gone so basic that it does actively detract from the story on the other end lol
@nikosbookreviews exactly. Now mind you nothing wrong to write in simple english. But you cant miss out on quality because of it. I feel Sanderson was checking boxes in this book. I feel hes obsessed with the idea of a 10 book epic ala wheel of time. Yet hes not Robert Jordan or Robin Hobb...already by book 4 of his epic we suffered from the 'bloat'. Hes filling out those books with boring filler crap and jokes and only rewarding us in the last 300 pages as the climax. Next saga we will have Jasnah and the likes of Lift as main pov....who wants that?
@@mrlaw2729yeah man, who LIKES women?! Especially strong ones with confidence! If it were up to me, all the POV characters would be men, and the women that are there to serve them. Such normal and not weird af opinions we have!
@@KH-ky1mb You punching air, Mistborn is beloved and the main character is a woman. Warbreaker is also beloved, and the main characters are women. Why can't some people just accept that there are characters who are obnoxious?
@@Cklert because when you lot say these things, it’s specifically women. What exactly about Jasnah is “obnoxious”? Sure, lift can be annoying. So can Szeth. He’s been more of a prop for the books than he has been a character. I’d love for you to tell me exactly what about Jasnah makes her a poor POV character, so I can point how how Kelsier does the same shit. This thread wasn’t even about POV characters, it was about prose and filler. But Mr. Big Law Man had to bring up how ridiculous it is that 2 female characters would be POV characters. Two super interesting and complex characters with a ton of backstory we haven’t seen. My, unfortunately, fellow men just have to take every chance they can to hate on a woman
I just finished Wind and Truth and oh boy. I was conflicted about the direction of the story during the beginning and middle parts but the end floundered tremendously. Just wow. So much of the initial draw for me has been thrown out with that ending. Honestly it’s not shocking as I felt the shift in RoW but this is so disappointing. I started reading Stormlight in high school and I can’t say even teenage me would have enjoyed this conclusion. I did enjoy some of the book such as Szeth’s flashbacks and Adolin’s chapters but unfortunately that isn’t enough to save it for me. So baffled at the stark drop in quality even from RoW.
Sorry to hear that! I've heard from a lot of people that still thought it was worth it, but I feel like I'd be in the same boat as you with just being even more disappointed if I'd finished it.
I am a completionist so I had to finish the book to get it out of my mind. The audiobook made it slightly easier for me to get through. But just so many confusing choices on the part of Sanderson. The finale was clunky at best and felt like it was trying to capitalize on previous emotional story beats to get the readers to connect with sub-par storytelling. The more I think on it the more I grow to dislike the implications of the ending. I wouldn’t dissuade anyone, especially long time fans, from reading it to soothe their curiosity but perhaps keep your expectations low and you’ll get more out of it. Conflicted feelings all around.
@trinketspirit Yeah there's definitely a chance I pick it back up, but I also just have not been even mildly tempted since putting it down so will have to see. The audio was helping me a bit as well...but just not enough lol
Making a video about the direction of the Stormlight Archive having only read ~80 pages of book 5 is an absolutely insane take 😂. You’re not wrong, but goodness that is a decision. Edit: also, your comments about diversity in the book are not a great look…
I think you are being kind. This latest installment makes me believe he has been offered a life changing amount of money for a movie deal, and just needs to insert the needed woke elements into his storyline to appease the backers.
I agree with your comments. You nailed it. I did finish and it didn't get better. Probably by far the most disappointing I've been. I see you have the leather bounds? Any buyers regret? (I do). You going to continue? I'm out on stormlight. Going to see how his other stuff develops. If he pulls the W&T approach into his other things, I'm probably done.
I'm keeping my leather bounds (those at least are the earlier books I loved) but I'm glad I stopped getting the new ones. I am unhauling a good chunk of my Sanderson though, and I definitely won't continue Stormlight (and Cosmere in general is very much in question for me)
@nikosbookreviews same as me. I supported the WoR leather bound Kickstarter and now wish I didn't, but I'll keep them. Won't buy anything new. Thanks again for the video... Glad to know I'm not alone. Really surprised by the 4.8 rating...
Just finish the book, this is a quote towards the end: "How?” Ishar repeated. “What are you?” He gestured toward Szeth. “Are you … are you his spren? His god?” “No,” Kaladin said. “I’m his therapist.” After that I ended up in hospital, having overdosed on cringe.
Oh I heard that word was used, that adds a lot more context. Yeah so many things like that I've seen just are things that take me out of a book immediately
that was a very epic moment and fulfillment of kaladins arc. i probably would have enjoyed it more without the “therapist” part but i think a lot of his fans will enjoy the humor of it
I finished it a couple of days ago and I agree with almost all of your points. Plus the ending was probably the weakest among all of cosmere books, especially for a book with a 10 years break before the sequel. Compared to this the other recent cosmere books by BS were a lot more enjoyable with very good endings.
With the loss of his previous editor, Brandon Sanderson has surrounded himself with yes-men. It does not help that he frequents his own Reddit to gain validation and argue with people. Despite attempting to widen his net, the second half of the Stormligh archive is guaranteed to appeal to a much smaller group. I dropped the series after Oathbringer, because I could tell that we would just be going over the same character arcs again and again. I really don't want to see Kaladin struggle and then overcome depression seven more times.
Only read preview chapters so far but i did notice terrible monologue dialogue from some of the fused etc. Character moments seeming outof place or over the top like Kaladin scolding the librarian because she was annoyed with syl.... Im getting more and more concerned about his direction and quality of writing lately...
I think one of the key points you said about the core heart and feel has changed. Part of it is forcing in modern ideas and perspectives without blending them naturally into the story. I agree it feels like his circle while it has grown with beta readers and others, I think there are fewer people pushing back on some ideas and there are more influences pushing him to add more and more modern ideas just to have them in there. I finished the book after reading it nonstop for 2 days, and I thought part of the letdown was just that I read it too fast, but I also think some of it is that truly the book was a bit of let down in and of itself, partly just because the anticipation and expectations practically always are higher than the actual experience, but also because it is losing some of that soul it seemed to have. Adding real world curse words, some scenes and themes is shifting Sanderson from being an author I can blanket recommend to needing to add some qualifications and flags especially when talking with younger cousins or others. I also agree that the length was unnecessary, and it dragged on at times. I liked the last little bit with Kaladin. Some of the developing story and the associated themes around Adolin are odd considering how oaths play such an important role. (I don't want to spoil, so I'll leave it vague).
I typically would read new Stormlight books in a few days as well so can get that, but yeah the feel really just was different from page one with this one. A lot of people have still enjoyed the book, which is great, but it does seem like it's just getting further and further away in terms of writing from where we started
Not sure how much sense this makes but I have no plans to DNF and I’m enjoying it more than not but also I agree with almost everything you said at the same time.😂
This is spot on what i dislike most about Sanderson, why i couldn't get into Tress too, i didn't mind the prose being simple but the terminology being our-world terms is endlessly frustrating
@nikosbookreviews all things considered though i really enjoyed wind and truth. I'm also a world-first fantasy reader and i hadnt realized ehat you verbalized in the video, how stormlight has changed into a much more character centric story, or moreso /that/ it had changed at all but looking back it has and that's probably why I'm less crazy about 3-5. I remember the dismay i felt realizing 4 would be pretty much entirely in urithiru lol. Despite all that i really enjoyed wind and truth i devoured it at 1.75 speed which probably helped glaze over the length and faults, and it was a really satisfying if infuriatingly open ended conclusion to the journey of characters i didn't realize i was growing to really love.
Way of Kings and Words of Radiance are stellar. Oathbringer and Rhythm of War are flawed but full of great moments and ideas. This one... Yeah, I think others have nailed it when it comes to a severe drop in prose, particularly its marvelification. The writing has always been relatively simple, but this allowed scenes to speak for themselves and it never felt like a means for sacrificing the tone or style of epic fantasy. Now, characters sound like caricatures of themselves, like people who know they're in an action movie intended for a modern audience, making the writing seriously dip into YA if not outright fanfiction at times. Some moments just come off as juvenile in such an extreme way it totally breaks the tone that has been built up over the past four books.
Sanderson's writing has always been juvenile. But in the early days he was still that kid reading under his blanket with a flashlight saying "THIS IS AWESOME". Now he's an industry. The joy has been gone for a long time. I've always had a touch and go relationship with his books. I've DNF'd a bunch of them, but I've at least started a lot of them. I kept going back even though I had regular grievances (poor prose, YA feel, bad jokes, cartoony characters). When I DNF'd Oathbreaker I finally said I'm done with him. Also, fwiw, Stormlight Archive is by far the most overrated fantasy series of all time.
Yes!! I just posted an earlier comment - everyone is under some collective delusion. Sanderson is like Nickelback, it kind of sounds like music and people love it , but Nickelback is not music or art. Also in this analogy Rothfuss is Nirvana.
@@dragonsandwarts5644 Or maybe, just maybe. You're a cynic. I don't like this book, but to claim that everyone who likes Sanderson (or Nickelback) is delusional is just makes you look like a condescending bastard.
I've had quite a few of these thoughts, too, except maybe the 'worse' writing, but only because Wind and Truth had a few stellar lines, and where it counted the writing was suitably epic. Great video, and great points!
@@apebblemaster4570 I've definitely heard from others that the good outweighed the bad for them, and I think that's great! This didn't work for me but I'm glad it has for others.
Haven't gotten to Wind and Truth yet. But for similar reasons I'm glad to hear he doesn't plan to release any of the coming Elantris or Mistborn books until he has finished writing the lot of them.
Honestly I've found myself just not even really caring about not knowing how it ends...and that's what really tells me putting it down was the right call
Hello all, there were a fair few comments concerning my brief comments in the video on diversity and inclusion, so I thought this was a great reason to do a fill video on that topic as it relates to my specific Stormlight thoughts and Fantasy in general! It's out now!
ua-cam.com/video/RYqFt-sCWuE/v-deo.html
I agree with all of this. I saw someone saying he’s spent too much time on Reddit and just ticking boxes for what a vocal minority want. The therapy talk etc is so patronising
It honestly all just feels like tokenism. Pandering. I would love to read a good story about these topics, one where they come up organically and are integral to the plot. Sanderson's tokenism just feels like a corporation shoehorning these subjects in, as you said, to tick boxes.
@bp6942 trust me, you don't want that book
The woke virus hit him hard unfortunately.
His religion is Reddit, Mormonism is his tribe.
😂 perfect
I am just relieved to see what I have been witnessing since Oathbringer. I was labelled crazy, and a hater and just plain wrong for having all of these opinions years ago. Finally some vindication for readers seeing how sloppy Sanderson has become with his story telling over the last few years.
His new editor has let him get away with his bloated prose for too long. A large part of what initially turned me off from the SLA anyway was the Marvelification of the series well before his writing tanked.
Yeah I think the signs have been there for a while but many people (myself included) were invested enough to look past them. I've found my investment waning and then WaT just completely turned me off the series
Oathbringer fatigued me, really badly. I finished that and RoW, but was barely into it by the end.
Funny enough Oathbringer was the last BrandoSando book I actually liked.
Actively dislike RoW
I almost didn't finish Lost metal
I gaslight myself into thinking I actually liked Tress (I didn't)
Sunlit man was so mid
I dropped Yumi
And I gave up un wind and truth on day four
I couldn't get past chapter 5 of Sunlit Man. I kept telling my wife that Sando needs to focus and stop jumping around so much 😅
I think most people wanted to see where the story went, myself included. Sunken Cost. Now that the series is "over" (taking a break), everyone is vocal about how this isn't how you conclude your first half.
Sanderson is definitely easy to read, in a literal sense. But reading what has essentially become the epic fantasy version of the MCU just becomes mind numbing.
Diving into Malazan, Steven Erikson gets a bit more "flowery" with his prose but you trust him to bring everything together and he does.
Joe Abercrombie feels very straightforward as well but god damn dude can write, especially characters.
With Sanderson the "growth" or change were seeing is shower sex scenes, adolins spren calling him a slut and syl talking about her vagina.
Why did you have to remind me about maya calling adolin a slut? I’d managed to erase that…
Yeah, I agree, Brandon kinda lost me with the whole focus on mental health being so all-consuming. It was just too exhausting to read. I want mystery and intrigue and twists and turns-I want to escape-I don’t wanna feel like I’m having a struggle session with a bunch of random people in some fantasy world I’m still trying to understand. 😵💫
If Shallan has one more “le epic realistic depiction of a panic attack” one more time I’m quitting this book!
Rhythm of War would have been about 80% better if Kaladin had actually retained the character growth he had in the last few chapters of Oathbringer, rather than forgetting his "spear that would not break" epiphany until the end of Wind and Truth.
are we 100% sure he actually wrote this book? how does a writer actually get worse with more experience?
How is he the same person that completed WOT
Ego?
Writing a less amount of revisions version?
He gives into the woke agenda...
I'm a writer, and I recognize a rookie mistake a mile away:
"She felt a feeling of dread."
I'm 100% sure Brandon Sanderson didn't write this. It screams "fanfic-level 0.5."
And that's nothing to say of the 'splainfest around the social justice issues.
I hate to say it because I've spent so much time reading this series, but I just don't like where it has gone and I lost interest in the characters. I just didn't care when I finished RoW and WaT. I will not be reading the second arc. I also get exhausted of the long investment for the "sanderlanche." it gets to a point where the routine is just not for me anymore.
Yeah I found myself so much less excited for WaT and then after I started, it just did not seem to be worth so many pages for the ending.
I nearly gave up on RoW and did give up on WaT, around day 7. Out of boredom.
Sanderson is a good writer. he builds worlds and characters well. But Stormlight has a Stephen King issue. He types too much. Andrew recently commented about a theory he has, and one I have had, that at some point a writer can get so big editors do not really edit and just accept every word and line.
@@Montie-Adkins Yeah it absolutely seems like that's the case here, it's pretty clear he's not being reigned in at all anymore
You’re right. That phenomenon is clearly visible on King and Rowling
@@EstoNoEsUnSpoiler I have not read her books. Saw the movies though and love them.
This is my best guess as well.
It's the Lucas effect. George Lucas was held back by a bunch of people while making the og trilogy. They kept his creativity in check and rescued the og movies from being as shit as the prequels. Once he started to work on the prequels, he had amazed such an status, that nobody could tell him no. Leading to the hot trash the Prequels turned into ( the 6 movie was already suffering from this as well though). It also happened to the Hobbit movies unfortunately
Seeing a pattern between Sanderson and big-name game developers such as BioWare and Bethesda. It’s alarming.
What's happening is extremely "wag the dog."
@@5Gburn I 100% agree. I think I've heard it said "the tail is wagging the dog" too.
So true.
@@jamesmansfield67 You can add Wizards of The Coast at the top of that list.
I've noticed these tendencies too. It's like the story's become more and more artificial, as if Sanderson is so hyper-aware of all the individual parts and technicalities that go into a fantasy novel that he's no longer able to let it develop organically
@@rymdalkis Yeah that's I think a great way to describe it! So much in it feels very forced and disjointed, and very clunky.
This has kind of always been my problem with Sanderson even all the way back in Mistborn era 1 and I think it all comes back to his obsession with hard magic systems and strict rules. It makes all of his worlds and stories feel so arbitrary and constructed that it strains the suspension of disbelief. His books almost feel unintentionally meta-textual at times. Obviously every fictional world and story is arbitrary and constructed and in some way but other authors manage to hide the artificiality much better and their stories and worlds feel real and believable as a result. When you read something like LotR or ASoIaF it's like a window into a different world. The those places, people and events feel real. With Sanderson it's not so much looking through a window as much as looking at a corkboard. You see the individual pieces of a world and story and the strings connecting them but you're one layer removed, it's not the real thing and it never really becomes a cohesive whole.
When I was in high-school, I used to love books by Dean Koontz. Then once I figured out the formula, where each beat would hit, what and each character archetype was, with NO deviation, I stopped reading them. I think this is what is happening with Sanderson. I'm pretty sure I could write out a beat sheet and write my own Mistborn era.
I get what you’re saying, but I might disagree with you about the mental health aspect, way of kings is filled with characters struggling with their mental health and thinking about it. He’s less subtle about it now, I agree, but I think it’s always there. I will agree that this book didn’t need to be 1,300 pages haha but I still loved it lol
Yeah some of those aspects have already been there, but it feels like it's gotten much more "in your face" and forced whereas in WoK it was just there.
It was there, but it felt more organic at the start. Then it became less about the character and more about the theme - very in-your-face like with the 1-800-Get-Help chapter early in RoW.
@ haha I get it
@@nikosbookreviewsAre you sure you haven’t read the entire book if it is bothering you in the first few pages. I want to know what you think when Kaladins arc ends in this book. It will be super cringe for you. I rolled my eyes and ignored it but I can see it bothering others.
@@pretty5793 I have not, and I'm not sure if I'll end up picking it back up at this point, but I'll have to see! I've told people in Discord I'm totally fine with spoilers, so I'm sure I'll end up hearing about it.
When he started using a lot of modern American terminology and verbiage in the early chapters, it really took me out of the experience. How were these things not caught by the beta readers? If they were caught, why didn’t Sanderson fix it? I’m still not all the way through part one, but so far it hasn’t been as bad as those early chapters. Btw, I’m the past with all the stormlight books, I devoured them as fast as I could. For this one, I’m much less motivated. Still enjoying it overall…but I do feel it needed some more editing.
Yeah I was the same way with the past books, would read them non-stop when they came out and couldn't put them down, but I was feeling a lot less excited for this one...and yeah, just all that stuff early on really put me off the book
@ he’s also, unfortunately, “time stamped” this book by doing this. That increases the risk that it won’t age well.
@@johnhogue9402 Yeah very fair point as well
Can you give examples ? I'm nearly at the end and nothing shocked me as "modern lingo" that would date the book
All the words borrowed from our world won't change (shit, therapy, "what the hell", etc.), maybe in a couple hundred years, but I don't think it's a relevant criticism at this point.
Also, on a purely lore related note, the characters using those are Yolish in origin, or heard it from Yolish people, which serves as an indicator of how Yolish society could be (closer to our own modern world, which is something that has been speculated for a while)
I get finding it grating, but I think the criticism here is unfair overall.
@ no, it has to do with the psychological stuff, and not that said by Wit.
At the end of the day. Sanderson threw away his audience that consisted of people that actually enjoy epic fantasy, and hes replaced them with mainstream Sanderson glazers. Its the same type of people that see a new Marvel movie and trip over themselves to slop it up. This book will age terribly and serves as the gravestone of Sanderson as a writer. He cares more about pandering to mainstream than to being an artisan of his craft, and that is unforgivable to me. This is all before even stepping into the topic of him betraying his faith, doubling back on his word, and enabling child abuse.
Care to elaborate on your last sentences? I'm generally curious
@@johnsmith-lm4uz gonna take a gamble and say this guy is gonna say something transphobic.
it’s interesting when people propose that sanderson is the modern tolkien because even ignoring that tolkien is vastly superior to sanderson on a technical level, the absurd word count and interconnected universe that makes sanderson significant is the primary obstacle to mainstream appeal. hobb and martin also have massive word counts but are much more approachable for the average reader. asking someone to read 15+ enormous books to get the whole story is a very big ask
I've read some Hobb, not sure whom Martin is.
@@IamNotYojimbo
The writer of A Song of Ice and Fire: George RR Martin
I feel the writing has been downhill starting with Rhythm of War. And that goes for all of Sanderson's work, not just Stormlight. Not a steep decline, but a decline nonetheless. Yumi was good, Tress was decent, but I was a little shocked at just how little I cared about Sunlit Man, especially considering who the main character is. I chalked it up to Sanderson being better at longform writing. I'm over halfway through Wind and Truth, and I started looking online at reviews to see if I was being too critical or if this book was another step down. You hit the nail on the head with this book.
I think the biggest issue is that everything feels foregone, predictable. Did I want to know exactly what happened with Honor's death? Sure, but it felt obvious from the early chapters that he was not quite as great as people made him out to be. Saw Shalan's big twist coming from a mile away, too. The sense of mystery and mind-blowing conclusions from the first three books and Mistborn is gone. It becomes a little more frustrating when, instead of building on new mysteries or giving satisfying answers, Brandon wants to talk about everyone's mental state in excruciating detail. Let's take Jasnah for example. She has basically done nothing since Oathbringer. It feels like Brandon doesn't know what to do with her. Yet we are being given all of her inner thoughts, strategies, and insecurities for pages and pages, all leading up to her having one strategic breakthrough that ultimately makes no difference for her side. lol Now, I'm up to a part where it looks like she'll have a confrontation with Odium, but is that really going to be a defining moment? Especially when her uncle is going to face him like a day later anyway? This is just one example of how the story is being bogged down by things we don't need to know.
And the reason Renarin's romantic subplot feels forced is because he comes from an extremely strict culture where women have to wear a glove on their hand or it's as bad as being nude and each gender has extremely strict guidelines to follow or you're seen as a freak by the general public. Yet, everyone Renarin comes into contact with encourages him, pushes him toward it, and is happy for him. He faces zero pushback from a society that cares about whether women wear a freakin' glove. Where's Sadeas to be a jerk when you need him? lmao This, and the general real-world language that some characters use, are great at taking me out of the story. There was one point when Syl said, "That's kinda racist," and I think my eyes rolled into the back of my head. Brandon has said that he's just translating Roshar phrases into English, but coming from the closest thing to Robert Jordan, coming from the guy who made up a thousand swear-words and phrases for his worlds, I think that's BS. It's lazy writing but thankfully balanced out by much better writing for different characters.
Maybe the second half of the book will be better, and it's not like it's bad or anything. It just hasn't felt as strong as previous Sanderson books.
@@Cableguy15 Yeah RoW definitely started down the path of the writing changes, but they became so much more prevalent here. I also 100% agree that the "translating to English" thing is an excuse for lazy writing. It really is a huge thing that just takes me out of a story, especially when it's coming from the guy who has been known for creating immersive high fantasy worlds with their own religion, cultures, languages, etc.
"everyone renarin comes into contact with encourages him" besides Rlain, two of the characters who interact with him about it are also gay, and then there's shallan. That's not a lot of people engaging with it.
I’m in your exact same boat. I haven’t finished it and I’m probably not even half way through, but I don’t remember his writing being this terrible. I genuinely enjoyed Sunlit man and every one liner it had, RoW was a dip in writing but never a disappointment, it still had plenty of amazing moments. This book is just marvel tier Reddit slop and it’s heartbreaking.
As soon as Renarin mentioned his internal feelings for Rlain I knew that the book would be a massive disappointment. For many of the reasons you touched on. I really hate the whole woke vs anti-woke culture war crap going on but I do need to mention that Sanderson’s pandering is getting out of hand. If Alethkar has such a strict social order, the idea of an openly gay relationship is unheard of. Even from Oathbringer, realistically there would have been far more pushback against female Windrunners on a government level, not just the common soldiers complaining about it. He built up such a society with traditions so ingrained it would be abhorrent to break, but casually degrades them overtime with little pushback. If he wants to have the breaking of social norms in the story that’s fine, but it should be an actual struggle, not just a conversation and a “coming out” moment that’s begrudgingly accepted. It took decades of efforts in history for women to get the right to vote, and even longer for gay marriage, why is the social foundation of Alethkar, one built up over millennia, toppled like a house of cards?
I agree with this 100%. I love some of the twists and the final 60 pages of wind and truth but the execution and getting there was so rough. The humor and dialogue was downright bad sometimes. 95% of kaladins arc in this book except the very end is just really poorly written introspection which feels like it was just taken from the cognitive behaviour therapy wiki page .This was a noticeable step down from even early books like Elantris imo.
Yeah this definitely felt like his worst writing at the beginning by a good bit for sure!
I think that the story itself is still very good, but WaT was definitely a rather large step down in writing. Brandon NEEDS a good editor that isn't afraid to criticize him and help him become a better author. I hope he's ironed out these issues by Stormlight 6, which is going to be in like 9 years so that should be enough time for him to improve, lol.
Absolutely agree, and yeah hopefully by then things will be heading in the right direction!
Yeah, this was my chief complaint with the book as well. I loved the actual narrative and thus was able to really enjoy this book despite its writing flaws. But the lengthy internal monologues and heavy-handed communication of themes really distracted me from the story and broke my immersion at times. I feel like most of these issues could have been addressed in the editing.
I really wish that Brandon had Harriet. As in Robert Jordan's widow/editor Harriet.
I just keep on thinking about how much she must have put Brandon to sweat when he helped finished the Wheel of Time. You could sort of tell in interviews he's done about it.
Even though I finished - Wind and Truth, and felt the last 30% of the text ended well, it was a schlog for me.
Or get worse
At his size, a 9 year wait is a bad idea to start the next 5 book arc. Then add another 12ish years to finish the remaining 4 books. Brandon's health might be unfortunately a factor by then
I just don't understand why this guy is praised for pumping out assembly line, juvenile dialogue filled slogs.
Stereotypical door stopper fantasy. I probably would have gotten into it at age 11-13. But I was reading other door stoppers at the time, and got my fill.
People were praising him before they noticed the decline in quality. The only notceibly "bad" book he made prior was RoW, but people could brush that off. Now it's been what? 5 years and half a dozen books and people are noticing the decline. Obviously his dialogue was always juvenile, but that really wasn't the main draw to his books anyway.
He writes enough stuff, you may find something. It’s also fun to find the Easter eggs. I like maybe half of his stuff
You could say that Brandon transitioned from a good writer to a bad one.
I must say I agree with just about everything here. I'm about 10 hours into the audiobook and nothing is hooking me. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks the prose quality has actually gone down.
Characters don't feel distinct anymore and all of them seem to have gained mentalities and viewpoints that they didn't have before
@@emosongsandreadalongs Yeah everyone really felt the same to the degree characters felt more like caricatures to me
I think it should be noted that the stormlight archive appeals to a large religious audience because of its lack of sex and language and secular philosophies and Wind and Truth has betrayed that. To a small extent I’ll grant, but not a small extent to everyone. I had to dnf as well because some things made me uncomfortable as a religious person.
"made me uncomfortable as a religious person" lmaoo what the hell are you talking about? Sanderson said "shit" and now you're mad?
@ When did I say that’s what made me dnf?
When did I say I was mad?
Also, if somebody was drawn to Sanderson because of the lack of swearing, why wouldn’t they be frustrated about sudden use of language?
One of the reasons I dropped the book as well.
Saying shit isn’t the issue, Syl explaining in detail how she made a Chull head in place of her genitals, joke or not, is vulger, stupid, and exists only for shock value.
Also the cosmere has featured extremely creative cursing relevant to each world that works perfectly. Why erase that in favor of real world hazbin hotel style writing?
Vulgarity is acceptable when used in moderation, not when Jasnah essentially says “donkey Bollocks” 3 times in a row because she’s angry. That’s millennial level garbage that you’d find in a Netflix original. All it does is remove any impact the words had as if a middle schooler wrote them.
@@prestonmichael7843 People are uncomfortable with someone who doesn't sin. If you're at a social gathering and everyone decides to have a snack and you decline, nobody will notice. If you're at the same social gathering and everyone decides to have a beer and you decline, people will notice. This is the same thing. If you say you didn't like the book because the characterization or plot were bad, that's fine. If you say you didn't like the book because there was too much sex or profanity, people won't like that. People get defensive at encountering someone turning away from sin when they embraced it. Their conscience convicts them but they project it onto the other person as being judgmental instead.
My entire goal as an author is to get so big I can write drek and have nobody tell me it sucks. Sounds like he's achieved my goal!
Hahaha, well hey it's not a bad goal!
Except that lots of people are highly critical of him?
I think I'm just outgrowing it. When I read Way of Kings, I was a kid in high school. It's been over a decade since and my tastes in reading and stories have changed. And I just remind myself that it's okay; I have fond memories of Words of Radiance in particular, and still consider it one of the best fantasy novels I've ever read, but I'm into different stories and though I'll likely give WaT a try, I won't care too much if it doesn't work for me.
That's a great way to look at it for sure, and I'm definitely in the same boat. I've read a ton more and had my taste change a lot over the years as well.
I read way of kings at the atart of the year and RoW/WaT are still shite
@@Broniminso true , he writes like a middle grader. His characters aren’t human they are just boring. That whole bridge run thing was the boring crap I’ve ever read and it went on forever!! I only finished way of kings because everyone kept saying it was genius. It’s like an alien pretending to write human emotions. And I’m a huge Sanderson fan of his podcast just his books are dreadful. I love John Gwynne , rothfus and Joe Abercrombie which I read after way of kings, and it was like , oh boy this is great it’s a breath of air and feels real.
This analogy will help you all understand why you are waking up from the dream that the cosmere is amazing and not just generic/AI feeling crap. Sanderson is to Nickelback as Rothfuss is to Nirvana. Nickelback know how to make a popular song and it sort of sounds like music , but it’s not music and it’s definitely not art.
Way of Kings was great, and each book following just went from great to bad, by book 4 for me
I finished it, thought it was good (gave it a 7.5/10), and definitely agree with you about many points. So much introspection, overanalyzing/over explaining of feelings and thoughts, and way way way too heavy-handed when it comes to anything mental health related. I'll definitely continue reading Sanderson, but I don't think ever I'll do a reread again. I reread all of Stormlight before Wind and Truth, and by the end, his weaknesses as a writer were so apparent and exhausting.
Also, your point about characters is spot on. Sanderson's characters now just feel like a checklist of personality traits, quirks, and mental health issues, rather than an actual living person.
I'm glad you still enjoyed it, but I can get not wanting to reread. I reread the whole thing prior to each book up through RoW, and that's where I fell off doing that myself. Still definitely plenty to enjoy, but yeah the change has been very big
@@nikosbookreviews The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance are by far the best Stormlight books, and honestly some of the best fantasy I've ever read. It's crazy how different books 4/5 feel compared to books 1/2
@Ak1193 Yeah I'll always love the early books, especially WoK for sure!
This book broke me. Such an utter failure. I’m a cosmere god in my friend group. I’ve reread every cosmere book multiple times. But WaT is analysis paralysis at its worst. By the start of WaT we’ve read over 4,000 pages of stormlight books, you dont need to explain a characters reasoning for every action, we know. You don’t need to say why this moment matters, we KNOW. For one who writes about broken characters who embrace setbacks but strive to change and be better - it’s unbelievable how little he’s invested in trying to be a better writer or find a capable editor. Quantity > Quality by Brandon Sanderson.
Yeah I'm unfortunately in a very similar spot here, it just isn't the quality of the earlier books, and without major changes I feel like it can only go further downhill
Sanderson lost me with this book. I’m happy others are enjoying it, though.
The Way of Kings is still one of my favorite books of all time.
Yep, I'm in pretty much the exact same boat!
The mental health focus is ironic because reading Wind and Truth (100 chapters in) makes me feel like I am going crazy. Seeing all these people fawning over it and then here I am thinking this is the worst damn thing I have ever read.
🤣I can totally get that hahaha
I totally agree with this review. I am so disappointed in the Kaladin character arc. Kaladin as a therapist is just so unsatisfying.
The writing is so bad at times! The modernisms, the preachy mental health and inclusion elements, the cringy sexual elements and humor, the modern curse words, and the over exposition of internal feelings all combined to continuously pull me out of the story. I also DNF'd the book and returned it. I am done with Stormlight.
I wish I could return mine. I didn't ask for a receipt though (overconfident I would like it). I will probably try to sell it on ebay, though I pity the buyer.
This book is a prime example of why you always pirate audiobooks friends!
Marvel Comics syndrome
I never was a comic reader so can't really confirm lol
I think this far into the series (book 5 of his 10-books-magnum opus of his interconnected world) there's a fair expectation that you know some background info
This is the only honest review i have found that doesn't lean into full culture war slop posting. Good insights into what's happened to Sanderson's writing over time
Malazan books, a man of culture I see.
I loved WaT, but Malazan is where its at lol
I have some unpopular thoughts there too lol,.but it is a masterwork for sure!
@@nikosbookreviews would love to hear them
Lets not pretend the ending of malazan wasn't trash.
Yes yes and more yes! The appeal to the market versus quality writing has been painful to experience. The first two/three books were classic literature quality, and it’s gone down hill from there.
No, it’s extended beyond Stormlight. The Lost Metal was such a drop in quality - it was almost fan fiction level bad in my opinion.
@@abo8158 Sanderson has always had pretty basic prose overall, but yeah there was just a big shift to try to make it even more accessible it feels like the further we got in the series
Losing his longtime editor after Oathbringer (Book 3) exposed his need for a solid creative team to me on Books 4 & 5.
He has alpha, beta, gamma, and sensitivity readers. He has loremasters and researchers. And all their comments, when applied back into the writing, require a deft editor.
I'll keep reading but, I recognize that the Cosmere has a creative team that's going to keep changing and may move away from my tastes at some point.
Yep, I agree, you can really see the shift start to happen in book 4 and then into 5.
sensitivity readers??? are you serious?!?! that is all you need to hear to understand that this in nothing but a corporate product and should be treated as such.
@@JohnAndrewMacDonald Sensitivity readers are a pretty standard practice these days in both traditional and self publishing.
@@nikosbookreviews oh man, I did not know that. But I suppose it's not surprising.
@@nikosbookreviews Already in book 3. Oathbringer became morre hollywood-like, more dramatic, bigger in scope much to my dislike
I agree with most of what you're saying. I managed to get through about 30% of the book before I decided to DNF it and only read the rest of Kaladin's chapters because at that point I just wanted to know how his (and Syl's) arc ended and didn't give a shit about anything else anymore. I'm still kind of in disbelief that half a year of looking forward to the release of this book lead up to this: massive disappointment. Every character has become a shell of their former self, the book reads as fanfiction at times due to the modern/YA language use, and the attempts at humor are just so painfully cringy. Don't get me wrong, The Way of Kings will always hold a special place in my heart and I still respect Sandersson for having created this captivating world and intriguing story, but I'm so glad I only started reading Stormlight Archive in February so I didn't waste years of my life being invested in this series. Apologies for the rant, I needed to vent a little lol.
Rant is totally okay, and I actually 100% agree that this felt like fanfiction, I made the same comment talking with some others about this. I've unfortunately been reading from the start lol
You made it through 30% of a massive 5 series book and decided to DNF? im going to say it, I don't believe you've read the other books.
@@kristobin8451Hey omg you're right! Maybe that's why I didn't like this book, it's because I skipped the first four books on accident! Ugh, silly me.
@kristobin8451 I only made it about 80 pages, so 30% is way further than I got
@@lotte_99 yes, exactly what I'm saying, or you are just lying,
I agree with your criticism. I've just finished Wind and Truth and am left with an odd mix of satisfaction and disappointment. The lessons seems to be that everybody is just a person, including our heroes and our villains and the author Brandon Sanderson himself.
Understanding the villains as just people takes away from their scary villain character and it does feel that some characters who were built up to be scary villains fell short in this book. And there was a character who could have been a great villain reveal but it turns out I was wrong about that.
We've had 4 years of theory crafting which has been fun but I've noticed that the longer the break time went on the crazier and more elaborate the theories got. I might have enjoyed the book more if I had gone in straight from RoW.
Oh well, I still enjoyed the ride and it is unfair to have too high expectations of the author / any one book. Too high expectations ruin your experience.
Also I need to say something about it:
There are a couple of scenes that trigger me because they feel like they are not necessary for the plot but only there to appeal to the Woke Zeitgeist. I love the intricate world building and the story overall but did you really need a transgender soldier? Did you really need a conversation about how it feels to be neither male nor female?
There is a gay love story and I didn't mind it too much because it takes its time to explore it without being too in your face. But the other stuff was just not meaningful in any way to the story.
@@Rhedak Glad you still enjoyed your time! I do think Sanderson is coming from a good and genuine place with trying to include those elements, but the examples I've seen have just felt very clunky and I think could have been executed a lot better.
Syl using the word racist kinda stood out to me.
"The woke zeitgeist"
Yikes... what a way to tell on yourself
@@arenkaiI mean is he wrong? You can dislike what he is saying. But if we are gonna spend time in epic fantasy focusing on homosexual relationships. Why wait till book 5 and the finale of an arc. Why not come out swinging in way of kings with it? Kaladin and Moashe would have been hot. The answer couldn’t possibly be that, Brandon is tired of answering questions about the lack of representation in Stormlight? You may not like using the word Woke. But that doesn’t mean Sanderson isn’t doing exactly what the guy was saying. It almost feels like Stormlight was bought by Disney, and they have got to work destroying it like they did the McU and Star Wars. Just for the record I liked most of book 5. Can’t wait for book 6, and I was best man at my gay best friends wedding in 2004 before all this woke crap.
Also i would like to give a tip to the guy who made this video. Just completely Skip Shallan and Renarin. I can tell you with experience that what they do in this book has 0 impact on the overall story. I’m not joking… they could not be in this book and not a single thing would change. If you made it this far in the series I think it’s worth finishing. There are a few parts that’s worth the journey imo. And the end of book 5 is a good place to stop if you never decide to read again… I was honestly on the fence about this book… but like I said, I’m game for book 6.
@@Theb0YWh0lived1 We just going to pretend we didn't have an entire section of Oathbringer dedicated to bridge four talking about Drehy's sexuality and the wider societal implications in Alethkar vs Azir? Sounds good. Carry on.
Well said, all around. Lift's inclusion in the series turned me off almost immediately. When she came back in Book 3, I also noticed how the quality of the writing dropped pretty steeply. Then she made the "Old man butt" joke, and I put the series down forever. Sanderson can't decide what tone he wants for this series, and it shows.
@@secretfirebooks7894 The Lift style humor seemed to be happening with everyone early on on WaT which absolutely was a big part of what turned me off as well
@nikosbookreviews Wow. Yeah, that must be brutal. I talked to a friend recently, and he said the same thing you did about the editing. I highly doubt Sanderson has been actually challenged by an editor for years.
I mean, Lift is a crude teenage girl with no concept of decency.
I think her tone is in line with the character she is.
As is the case with every character in the series.
@arenkai I know. I don't like that character and I don't think she fits with the rest of the story.
@@secretfirebooks7894 I happen to love her character so I guess that's why I don't connect with your opinion. A lot of people don't like Lift though, so I can see where those criticisms are coming from.
Dropping Sanderson entirely now
Thank you for this video, Niko! I enjoyed the first two books in The Stormlight Archives, but Oathbringer became a bit of a slog for me. Having heard that Rhythm of War gets into the magic system a lot, I’ve been reluctant to read it. After hearing your criticisms, I actually think I’ll stick to my resolution to read RoW and WaT in 2025, but with tempered expectations.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I hope it works out for you when you get to it!
It didn't help the magic system tends to be a silly 1-for-1 parody of modern physics concepts like quarks, spin, antimatter, gluons.
Great point about the overall focus of the books shifting towards character introspection and self-discovery journeys. I disagree about the representation aspects feeling inorganic to the story, but unfortunately there with you on the other points. There’s just way too much clunky introspection and too many 21st century modernisms with the word choices for me to easily stay immersed like I had been in the previous books. And the humor is hitting less often for me too which isn’t great (or just seeming more forced).
Considering how much I still enjoyed the Cosmere secret projects and the Lost Metal I’m hopeful it’s not an issue that’s going to extend too far into his other books.
Yeah I think that's something we'll have to see, but hopefully this remains just a SL issue!
So much of what you've said is why I've stopped reading it for now (finished day 3). I was honestly a bit pissed when there were actual curse words in the book. I know quite a few people who like to listen to Sanderson books with their kids because there are no actual curses. I've also been annoyed going back to RoW how many cosmere connections there are. I wish he had finished era one of every series before he went "full cosmere." My first Cosmere book was Way of Kings, and that was fine because at that point only the first 3 books were out. Now I have a couple friends who have started with Way of Kings and it kind of sucks telling them that they should really stop after book 3 (if not earlier) and read these other 20 books first.
@@PatrickRyanBookReviews Yeah I expected the Cosmere connections part to become more of an obstacle, but the writing was the big thing that just seemed to really, really change.
Agree on the curses and there are other scenes and themes that are just less family/kid friendly and pulled me out of the fantasy of the book. They also don't add to the story.
The carving up of Singer bodies and removing their carapace to be stitched together into armor in WoR was alright for children, but saying "ass" isn't?
I want to bring this point up without slumping into UA-cam comment negativity, I just want to outline that adult themes have always been present, and honestly, realistically, it was the lack of swearing that always seemed a little oddly cleaned up.
At least to me. I'm just one guy with a perspective that isn't universal or inherently correct.
@@virgilhawkins3390 What is the worst curse in the book anyways? Shit? Like it's not really bad
Most of Brandon's book is not family friendly. And I dont think they're meant to be. Tress and Yumi are possibly the only family friendly books. The other either has gore / psychological theme / war / horror / sex
Wind and truth solidified that I’m not a Sanderson fan. Feels YA and I can see the gears turning, characters moving to serve the plot --and it’s just too sanitized and mechanical.
Yeah it's kind of solidified for me that I may not be a fan anymore!
I didn't like the book either, but "Feels YA" shouldn't be a criticism
@@qrevolution "Feels YA" when it's marketed as Adult Fantasy is definitely a criticism for me personally. Sanderson has always straddled the line with YA and Adult, but this definitely felt way younger reading
“***insert criticism here**** shouldn’t be a criticism” (should also not be a criticism)
Actually refreshing to see this perspective
I think Stormlight has always been more about the characters than the worldbuilding, it’s literally filled with flashbacks that aim to provide context for our characters while also advancing their journeys simultaneously. I agree that it’s less subtle now, but I’m around 40% into WaT and I’m not seeing any big difference so far.
The prose is worse, it seems even more accessible than before which is probably too accessible, but I think that’s fine, Sanderson’s always aimed at making it easy for anyone to understand.
The words like “Therapy” and other words from real life are fine for me, I just imagine it has an in-world translation, or even a string of words to explain, but because the story is being read to Earthlings, we see the word as we know it.
The LGBT thing is (so far in the story) a complete non-issue for me. There’s 2 minor characters that are flirting, in a series with 100s of named characters. It’s barely mentioned and pretty subtle so far, I don’t even think about it.
The humor is not interesting to me, but it’s never been the reason why I love Sanderson’s works.
All in all, you give fair criticisms but I think they kind of melt away when you stray away from the assumption that Sanderson is supposed to be the greatest writer of our time. He has weaknesses like any other writer, and his strengths are still impressive. I guess the early stormlight books introduced his formula to a lot of people, and it gets less impressive the more we have of it, I just try to appreciate it in spite of this, and there’s still twists and turns that I find still enjoy. There’s some stuff I didn’t necessarily liked (Kaladin’s 4th ideal felt obvious and I just knew what would happen) but like I read 30 cosmere books and I’m bound to be able to understand the direction some plot lines are going towards, otherwise I’m just an idiot.
I’m also someone who does not read a lot or fast, I’m fine with the book taking me 3 months to finish, which makes me the ideal target for Sanderson. I want accessible writing, I like information to be repeated as I likely read only one chapter per day, and I’m invested in the characters’ journeys. Maybe someone like you, who reads a lot, started to get bored with this, and that’s fine, but I think it comes more from you than from him. It’s like me with music that I used to love 5 years ago that’s become less interesting as I listened to more records. Did the music change or did I? Not to say Stormlight’s writing didn’t change, but perhaps your preferences also did.
Sadly disagree, read all these books recently and the quality just seemed to drop overall. I know you said you were fine with a lot of the changes, but at the same time you had to go through four and five reasons validating why it may not be that important, but so many of those ideas and notes for most people I believe are hugely interesting
Great perspectives! This has been the most conflicting book I’ve read in a while. Not sure if I’m reading a story or a spur of the moment idea that an author wrote in a napkin and decided to publish it without any formal editing process. The language and prose is a major step down from TWOK, which was a superior book in terms of presenting ideas with a clear yet sophisticated use of the language. The prose in WaT is suffused with modern vernacular, which strangely affects the story’s quality. Rather than enjoying the story by completely immersing in it, I find myself constantly asking why good prose decided to go goodbye.
Yep I had a very similar experience, it was extremely jarring the way it just didn't even sound like it was written by the same person
Exactly!
This is off topic but I started reading the Tad Williams Otherland series. I had bought the books several years ago off Amazon. I started getting into book, one, but after page 109 it suddenly jumped to page 138 and thus left some of the story out, and I was so depressed about that, I never went back to it. I noticed there were even a few other pages out of place when I looked ahead a bit. Have you ever had that happen to a book before? It was a new book as well! I'll have to buy the first book again somewhere lol. The book started slow, but seems to have great reviews.
So funnily enough, I've had two books like that...and they were The Way of Kings and The Gathering Storm 🤣 Both have the missing parts available online for free so I never bothered replacing them though. Also I still need to get to Otherland, I love Williams' Osten Ard books!
@@nikosbookreviews oh wow that's crazy. I had actually looked online to see if anyone else was experiencing missing pages with the Otherland book and I couldn't find anything, so the only explanation, is maybe it was just an isolated printing error.
@@down-the-rabbit-hole Yeah sometimes there's a batch like that but usually they're pretty isolated, not a normal thing I've come across by any means but does happen!
I’ve seen it a few times. Sometimes material is missing. I’ve also seen hardcover books where the sections are sewn-in in the wrong order.
@@duffypratt yea that happened to one of my books, there were like 25 pages that were out of place and placed in the middle of the book. Totally ruined it for me.
I’m really glad I’m not the only one who’s been thinking this. The scene from finding Nemo when the Dad’s faces slowly degrade from excitement to confused disappointment is a good visual of how it feels to read this book. I’m not even halfway through and I’m not sure if I even want to finish it.
After the first few chapters I thought I had just outgrown Sanderson. I’ve read a lot of other books since RoW including blood meridian and Thus Spoke Zarathustra, so I thought my tastes had just evolved to want a higher level of prose. Then I realized that Sunlit man isn’t that old, and it had barely any pitfalls present in WaT. Yumi and Tress had wonky dialogue, but they still had a decent hook, a sense of adventure, and a genuine feeling of satisfaction after finishing them. There is very little of that in WaT if any!
What sucks for me is I was really hyped about Shinovar. It was the Japan but with white people of Roshar for me and I was excited to see how it functioned. It blows my mind how Sanderson was able to make both Shinovar and the backstory of my favorite character dull and boring! Maybe more happens later in the story but atm it’s a boring Banjoe Kazooe fetch quest.
My biggest issue was that this book wasn’t satisfying closure to the first arc. Readers should be able to jump off here but there are so many cliffhangers. This appeals to people obsessed with cosmere etc… I wish the SA were standalone! Great video
I did hear some others say it felt like it was setting up a lot for the back half instead of feeling like a satisfying conclusion; I can definitely get that being super disappointing
The more I thought about it the more I realized how much I didn’t like WaT
Finish the book before judging it. Its an epic fantasy novel not a cheese burger, every bite DOES NOT hit the same.
80 pages is not enough to make an educated analysis even if you have read 800 pages of other peoples opinions.
The books have always been about characters introspection. Every single book devotes chapteters many chapters to painstaking introspective character development in the form of flashbacks to support the mental condition of the character arc. These have always been character driven books, they are in close 3rd person perspectives with all the commentary in every book being part of said character development.
With thay said, wind and truth was a bit heavy handed and the pace was faaaast!
But this also makes sense if you follow his writing teaching/ philosophies. This book itself was the finale of the series and for those of you who read e1 book 3 of MB this should be no spoiler. When Brando finishes he goes hard now make that the finish to the series he follows that same formula but doubles down.
I'm not suggesting it's perfect by any means. It's not! After reading every other book the man had written I was very unsuprised by the ending. But it was still read worthy. And if haven’t read the whole thing and are only getting your thoughts from trolls you won't have a clear picture on the resons why it was great despite it's many flaws.
But remember, the point has always been the Journey.
Journey before destination, friends ✨️
I wish i'd dnf'd it, but like a massive car crash, I just could not look away despite my horror at regular intervals in this waste of a book. I agree with you man - and I can tell you, you missed literally nothing. Kal, the backbone of SA, was sidelined the ENTIRE book, wandering around Shinovar playing a bloody flute. And it only makes you madder as you go on lol so good on you! There were some cool moments, but it was so shit overall it was bewildering. Mental health went from being a theme to an Idol in this book, and this process started last book you are right. And it has destroyed his story, it's incredible.
I'm also a huge cosmere nut, have read all the books, all the qna's, all the secret projects - ALL of it. 15 years man, wasted. And this is the only time ive ever felt so betrayed by what is supposed to be a concluding arc in a series. It has blown my mind, good to see i'm not alone.
Yeah I had lowered expectations starting WaT for sure, but I just was so immediately turned off of it that I had to put it down...and the comments like this really make me feel it was the right decision, I'd be right there with you with just having all that investment ruined
Wait why is Kal becoming the support-role a bad thing? Any mortal need rest after what Kaladin had gone through. I'm happy reading this book knowing all Kaladin does is learn to make soup and play flute. The lad needs rest. The fighting-hard part is taken over by the other guys (Adolin finally get to taste what it feels as a lowly soldier in war)
And it's not like he didn't fight at all. He did, albeit infrequently, but he was badass.
@@Iluvatar196 The issue is that he really doesn't contribute anything at all until the very end. You can omit the majority of the chapters entirely and nothing would be lost.
I haven’t read this one yet. And haven’t read any of the secret project books either. Not sure if I will. His non-Cosmere books have always rubbed me the wrong way, and struck me as being a bit lazy. Then I started to see the same sort of thing creep into the second era of Mistborn, which I abandoned after the second book. Rhythm of War was a pretty large step down from Oathbringer, which was already slipping a little from the first too books.
Sanderson is in the enviable position of being able to do anything he likes with his writing. It’s disappointing to me that what he likes is to become a factory, churning out superhero books that masquerade as high fantasy (but superhero books have always been his niche). On the other hand, for his fans I suppose that’s better than what George Martin has decided to do (or not to do) with his freedom.
I'm about a third of the way through the book right now, with no real motivation to continue (other than tearing into it in my own review), so videos like this are really refreshing to see. I too have been a massive fan of the cosmere for years and years, and I've read everything, but this has been a noticeable decline in quality to the point that I doubt I'll continue with the cosmere at all. What a shame.
I'm unfortunately very likely in the same boat. I'm not sure if I'll pick this one back up, and from there it brings the Cosmere as a whole into question for me.
I'm feeling the exact same way. It was a struggle to get through day 3 and I simply don't care about any of the characters anymore.
I read Way of Kings and jumped off once I saw he was going to start releasing novellas in between books and tying things into the broader cosmere too much. Out of curiosity when each book is released I check out the reddit and try to keep up with the main events. This has become absolutely impossible. People are basically speaking a different language. All the terminology is just exhausting.
Sanderson may have simple language in his books but they are the opposite of newcomer friendly. People just getting into fantasy will be turned away by the bloated complexity of it all. He's a fantasy author for fantasy fans. You can speculate about how every tiny bit of his worldbuilding relates to each other in new and interesting ways. But if you don't keep up with all of it, then it's just impenetrable. I need to make notes, charts and do do homework to read his books.
They are no longer for me, and unfortunately, many other fantasy authors have taken Sanderson's success as a licence to also write their own books this way. I read less and less fantasy every year.
Yeah it's definitely been heading into that direction more and more, and even having read all the other Cosmere stuff, it's still a lot to keep track of for sure! It definitely makes the barrier to entry a lot higher
Thank you for this. It's been so hard to find anyone reviewing the book to discuss the changes over time, especially in this last book. I've spent so much time in these books to feel so let down at the end of this first arc. I had done the math and was already pretty certain I wouldn't live to see the end of the full 10 books and was talking myself into being "OK" with completing the first 5...now, I'm not. I don't even want to think how much money I've put into Sanderson only to be this disappointed.
I can definitely get the disappointment! It's weird for me not having any desire to finish the book when yeah it was something that I have been so invested in for so long!
@nikosbookreviews I finished it today. I can say you made a better decision to DNF than I did by forcing myself to finish. I was most disappointed in how much I just didn't care about this story. I'm used to that feeling by other authors, but Brandon used to be on my "must buy" no matter what. But much of his recent (past 5 years maybe?) just is not the same quality. I bought all the way into the "year of Sanderson" and holy crap was that several hundred dollars of disappointment.
I feel like Brandon needs a real friend, one who can tell him he's drifted away from what made him this successful.
Yeah, its definitely not going to be Dan. He's an employee...
100% agree with everything in this video,
wind and truth was such a terrible book in my eyes, filled with the authors mental vomit.
and thats not to mention how terrible the plot is.
@@lastfrog5941 Okay but Mental Vomit absolutely sounds like it'd be a Metal band lmao
How’s you get your hands on all those trade paperbacks of Malazan? I’m jelly.
It took a long time and a lot of luck to get the full set lol
@ cool
As a gay man you're completely right, im exhausted seeing fellow queer people worship low effort representation and I wish we could stop settling for scraps
@@Rhaenyssupporter I do feel like Sanderson is coming from a good place here, but yeah the execution wasn't there. I did actually just have a video come out this morning where I talk about the topic more broadly as well since I was brief in this video
Oddly kind of offensive to have the Gay POV character be a notably effeminate character who can’t fight.
Also weird for it to be an inter species relationship between two cultures who each have a well defined and strict social order between the sexes. Why is the modern gay character always written as a weak effeminate femboy? Id legit rather see Colonol Volgin style characters. Why not focus in Dreyhy?
I just finished, and I regret reading Wind and Truth. I have never been so let down by a book my entire life. Rhythm of War had it's problems but still had a great ending. This one was just BAD. I am so sad, because this series should have been his Magnum Opus.
I'm sorry to hear that, but yeah it's comments like this that have made me really feel I made the right decision to DNF
I liked the book but it does feel more like a cliffhanger then an ending
@@exaggeratedhistory Hey, It's OK to like the book, but there is no denying that it was not what was promised from book 1, like Niko points out in this video. It just didn't work for me.
I really liked it, and seeing these comments I don't understand why so many people didn't like it (I'm a Spanish speaker, I don't know if that could have any influence). But I'd like you to tell me why you didn't find it good.
@@angeld3085 I'm working on a video on my channel. It's taking a while though
Raboniel carried Rhythm of War.
without watching the video, I'll just list things I've really grown to dislike with the stormlight archive:
1. Increasing use of "COSMERE" references in books that require knowledge of other books unrelated to the stormlight archives. Before, it used to be little easter eggs that were rewarding to find as a Sanderson fan, but now its very in your face and just.. too much.
2. Prose has never been a strong point for Sanderson, but the extensive use of modernisms in wind and truth is crazy to me, like adolin saying troubleshoot?? and other examples that I can't exactly remember because I cringed inside and tried to skim past as fast as possible.
3. I just dislike sanderson's comedy. It's like everyone in the Cosmere has the same definition of "comedy" and its just stuff that Wit would say, but said by other characters. This is personal preference though, so most can disregard it probably.
4. He needs a better editor. Seriously. Some of the plot decisions in Wind and Truth were inexcusably bad. Like really bad.
I meant....that's hitting a lot of the big complaints for sure lol
I agree with point 2-4. But for point 1, I think this far into the series, anyone reading book 5 of his 10-books-magnum opus of interconnected world, is expected to have some background info
@@beanpork508 This is one of the core series of Cosmere along with Mistborn saga and Dragonsteel. If you find the references like "in your face" now, then the second half will be pretty much like "shove down your throat".
I aggree with you on the issue of Cosmere awareness being more essential which is a problem, but at the same time, I don't want Sanderson to limit himself just to make the stories more self contained. As for the real world stuff getting representation, I feel like all of those things were always there but they are a bit more heavy handed in this one. I'm not sure how I feel about the word "Therapist" in my fantasy novel.
Saw your comment on the other one and replied there!
You said not to be a dick. I hated this book. None of the comedy lands. This book is 500 pages too long. A few epic moments. I almost DNF this thing. However , it is as actually fair that you didn’t finish this book - you need to get the entire experience as the last 1/3 feels like it’s written by a different author entirely. At some point the POV shifts become schizophrenic. Really disliked book
I can absolutely appreciate your comments, and also appreciate you not being a dick 🤣 To be honest even the first 80 pages felt like a different author to.me
@ for sure that’s my point. In fact, skip to chapter like 85 and just read from there and it’ll actually feel like the good part of Sanderson a bit. Compared to the first halfish felt .. seriously like a brand new college author or something. Terrible :)
Reading the word "therapist" in the books really makes me cringe.
There were a lot of our world terms/phrases that just felt so out of place for me
nonbinary
Anachronism kills fantasy.
Thank you for this fresh and honest perspective.
All I see is "reviewers" who are seemingly full of vapid, generic praise for this book series. Knowing how popular this series is, they no doubt want to give their audience what they want to hear, lest they be accused of "not being a quality book reviewer" because, after all, _if I liked these books, then surely any quality book reviewer will like it too._ Furthermore, imo there's likely many Sanderson fans out there who have invested so heavily into the Cosmere universe and lore, that they're now extremely bias for any news that they've made the right choice, similar to the the Sunk Cost Fallacy.
Anyway, thanks again!
Liked and subscribed 😊👍
@@munen-muso Just from talking to people I do think a lot of people that enjoyed it did legitimately enjoy it even if they noticed the same issues I did. I get it as someone who has been very invested, sometimes that makes you look past a lot, but this was way too much for me to look past and it just took me right out
This series has always felt YA.
Sanderson has always rode the line, but WaT started out feeling like bad YA
Reacting in a mature and respectful way….😅
Wind and Truth is the last Sanderson book Ill be reading. The series has been getting worse since Words Of Radiance.
No offense bt if u Tell me this is the guy that wrote hero of ages i will disbelief
We have fallen from inspiration to mediocrity
From Vin's sacrifice to just giving up.
I think this is the destination for me,continue on guys bt i can assure u this series aint worth waiting for 10 years
The start of book 5 definitely did not feel like it was written by the same author to me either, so totally get it!
Agree. With how good mistborn era 1 closed out... I'm shocked with the W&T we received.
I mean, this is not the ending?? And it's not supposed to be??
@@Iluvatar196 I just think... To me... The first 4 books weren't any kind of ending either, but each felt like a complete story. This was wide open at the end.
You've echoed a lot of concerns I've had about the series. I loved what I had read of Stormlight when I was getting back into Fantasy about 5 years ago but since then my taste has changed and expanded so I've been waiting in the wings to see how Wind and Truth is received to determine how soon I'll restart the series.
Of Stormlight Archive, all I've read are Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, Edgedancer and about half of Oathbringer. Loved WoK and WoR but disliked Edgedancer immensely and Oathbringer was wrong timing on my part.
Outside of those, I've found reading Sanderson to be a fairly mediocre experience, and as someone who has 0 interest in the wider Cosmere (I'm not sure just how unpopular that is amongst Stormlight readers), the supposed increading reliance on it has been one of the driving factors of me not having restarted the series.
Another grievance I have (and this is super subjective) is Sanderson's humour. I don't find his writing funny, especially for characters like Lift and Hoid. For Shallan it kinda sorta worked cuz i think its meant to be cringe, at least that's how I read it. Authors like Abercrombie, Adams and Pratchett is more my sense of humour.
Hard Magic Systems are fine and all but I never get the sense Sanderson trusts me the reader to eventually remember it, especially since there's graphs and diagrams in the back.
Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head with a lot of this, and you're not alone with not being interested outside of Stormlight, that's somewhat common for those who came to Sanderson late. I will say that the humor from Edgedancer has become VERY prevalent and not just with Lift, I cringed so many times in the first hundred pages which is what made me put it down lol
@@nikosbookreviewsoh no... 😂
Oh well, maybe I'll continue Wars of Light & Shadow and WoT while the dust settles for Stormlight 😅
I started on Malazan this fall and had just finished book 3 when WaT came out. Put Malazan aside to read it and boy was that a whiplash
@rymdalkis Oh man, yeah that's a change! I did go from GGK to WaT...which was also not a great idea hahaha
Do not proceed further. Waste of time
Finally someone who’s saying what everyone’s thinking… so many big UA-camrs singing its praises. But as someone who read 25 of his books this year, this is noticeably way way worse than what we should expect. The writing is cringy and borderline garbage at times. I loved him but he’s really taken a downward turn here which makes me sad given how invested I’ve been.
I think there will be a lot more criticism once the initial hype passes for sure, but yeah I was just very disappointed in this one
Renarlain was forced, there is a Stormlight written one dimension way from ours that doesn't have that; just allows Renarin to form a true friendship across species lines, not everything is love; his character needs to learn friendship hes still so awkward jumping to love was forced.
your point on the tonal change is true, great review, I still loved the audiobook and Kaladin+Szeth's arcs were well written, as well as the "old lore" with the herald vision sequence and Nale tagging along info dumping. It had emotional pulls, so I will still read the Sandman but I DO dissapointinglty recommend him to "oh you read the Lightning Thief? You'd love Storm/Mystborn it's smidge above YA"
I didn't really get to any of those points, but yeah I think the smidge above YA part makes sense!
Hey dude I’m also a fellow booktuber. I made a video on how I didn’t particularly like Mistborn. However I’m on the last 2 books of Wheel of Time and I’m loving what Sanderson has done in honoring Jordan and his style. A lot of my subscribers say I’ll love Way of Kings. But now I’m hearing a lot about how book 5 in this saga has fallen flat. Makes me sad and curious. Is it still worth it? Love your channel just subscribed
That's tough, because I really enjoyed Mistborn, but I think you'd very likely still really like Way of Kings and the first few. A lot of people had issues the further it got overall myself included.
Finally an honest review! Thank you for speaking up, Brandon needs honesty here, we need to get the heart back at book 6 for any chance to save this series. Great job! Keep it up!
Agree. Tell it. He used to be more subtle, less preachy. Now he has entire chapters which are just dialogue to show his political viewpoints.
His agenda is prevalent in Wind and Truth. No longer is he open ended.
This book had little plot, lots of meaningless meandering and side characters, and a ridiculously overpowered enemy.
His cosmere connections are killing the coherence of individual books. His lack of a developmental editor with the balls to say no really shows. Wind and Truth could have been 600 pages. Tight narrative moving the plot for Dalinar/Navani, Kaladin/Szeth, Shallan. Rlain/Renarin could have been an interlude. Sigzil is a minor character and should have been cut. Instead we get 1000 pages of flashback and dialogue standing around, and only a few hundred pages with anything happening. Further, it seems ridiculous to have basically god, demigods, 80% of the worlds nations, and the immortal indigenous against like less than a stadium full of Alethis and Azish who are out of gas.
And we have to make sure we over explain in 5th grade prose every thought and action.
I almost wish everyone just died, Moash took the Dawnshards and shards of Adonalsium and wins.
As a postscript: go read chapter 114, Jasnah debate with Taravangian. Then go read a few chapters of Malazan. Notice the difference.
Considering most of booktube (ime) is rarely critical of his work, this was a really interesting listen.
I’m sorry a series you loved so much is getting farther away from what made you love it in the first place.
I’ve tried a couple of his books, and while I found them technically solid, his storytelling just isn’t for me. And the humor, at least as it was in Yumi, is very much not for me.
If that is the case with his team and such (which I assume it is), it really puts me in mind of when (iirc) Anne Rice stopped working with her editor after book 3 in her Vampire Chronicles series. We suddenly went from decadent but intentional prose to multiple pages hyper-fixating on underwear or buttresses. And I can think of a few popular musicians who could also benefit from being told “no” on occasion lol. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts! And I appreciate you keeping it real, even with an author you’ve loved.
Yeah Sanderson has been such a big part of Fantasy for so long that many people I think just look past issues because of the nostalgia, which I get, but it's just really getting so far from what I loved about it sadly. I do agree you can see it with some other authors as well as musicians and other mediums as well, sometimes you get so big you can do whatever you want, and it's not always a good thing for sure!
Spot on with this series’s problems. I read the first book and thought this would be an all time series for me and still may be but as it has gone along, something is changing and rubbing me the wrong way. It’s not the vastness of the cosmere, but it is the way he is going about the writing like you mentioned. I couldn’t quite put it into words, and I think you explained my criticisms very well. Thanks for the video
@@ragoose1000 Yeah this definitely felt like it was going to be an all time series for me as well, but it's really gotten away from that for me.
He definitely has a ghost writer "Team". No one releases that many books that fast and maintain quality.
I am about half way through the book and I don't think it's forced but it is more direct. I think the real issue with the book is that 1200 pages is just too many pages for a narrative that canonically happens over just 10 days. There is more than enough room for the story Sanderson is telling with Renarin and Rlain in 1200 pages but it doesn't feel appropriate for 10 days of narrative time. Combine that with the fact that those are two characters that have orbited around the edges of the story and have never really been given the spotlight until now and you end up with a lot of screen time being dedicated to them which they both deserve but Wind and Truth was probably not the best time to do that given the narrative constraints on the story.
Prose makes the story it does not detracts from it.
Yet Sanderson has the opposite opinion smh
There's a wide range of opinions on prose for sure! I do tend to enjoy elevated prose more, but I feel like he's gone so basic that it does actively detract from the story on the other end lol
@nikosbookreviews exactly. Now mind you nothing wrong to write in simple english. But you cant miss out on quality because of it.
I feel Sanderson was checking boxes in this book.
I feel hes obsessed with the idea of a 10 book epic ala wheel of time.
Yet hes not Robert Jordan or Robin Hobb...already by book 4 of his epic we suffered from the 'bloat'. Hes filling out those books with boring filler crap and jokes and only rewarding us in the last 300 pages as the climax.
Next saga we will have Jasnah and the likes of Lift as main pov....who wants that?
@@mrlaw2729yeah man, who LIKES women?! Especially strong ones with confidence! If it were up to me, all the POV characters would be men, and the women that are there to serve them. Such normal and not weird af opinions we have!
@@KH-ky1mb You punching air, Mistborn is beloved and the main character is a woman. Warbreaker is also beloved, and the main characters are women.
Why can't some people just accept that there are characters who are obnoxious?
@@Cklert because when you lot say these things, it’s specifically women. What exactly about Jasnah is “obnoxious”? Sure, lift can be annoying. So can Szeth. He’s been more of a prop for the books than he has been a character.
I’d love for you to tell me exactly what about Jasnah makes her a poor POV character, so I can point how how Kelsier does the same shit. This thread wasn’t even about POV characters, it was about prose and filler. But Mr. Big Law Man had to bring up how ridiculous it is that 2 female characters would be POV characters. Two super interesting and complex characters with a ton of backstory we haven’t seen. My, unfortunately, fellow men just have to take every chance they can to hate on a woman
I just finished Wind and Truth and oh boy. I was conflicted about the direction of the story during the beginning and middle parts but the end floundered tremendously. Just wow. So much of the initial draw for me has been thrown out with that ending. Honestly it’s not shocking as I felt the shift in RoW but this is so disappointing. I started reading Stormlight in high school and I can’t say even teenage me would have enjoyed this conclusion. I did enjoy some of the book such as Szeth’s flashbacks and Adolin’s chapters but unfortunately that isn’t enough to save it for me. So baffled at the stark drop in quality even from RoW.
Sorry to hear that! I've heard from a lot of people that still thought it was worth it, but I feel like I'd be in the same boat as you with just being even more disappointed if I'd finished it.
I am a completionist so I had to finish the book to get it out of my mind. The audiobook made it slightly easier for me to get through. But just so many confusing choices on the part of Sanderson. The finale was clunky at best and felt like it was trying to capitalize on previous emotional story beats to get the readers to connect with sub-par storytelling. The more I think on it the more I grow to dislike the implications of the ending. I wouldn’t dissuade anyone, especially long time fans, from reading it to soothe their curiosity but perhaps keep your expectations low and you’ll get more out of it. Conflicted feelings all around.
@trinketspirit Yeah there's definitely a chance I pick it back up, but I also just have not been even mildly tempted since putting it down so will have to see. The audio was helping me a bit as well...but just not enough lol
@@trinketspiritso which parts didn’t work for you?
Making a video about the direction of the Stormlight Archive having only read ~80 pages of book 5 is an absolutely insane take 😂. You’re not wrong, but goodness that is a decision.
Edit: also, your comments about diversity in the book are not a great look…
I think you are being kind. This latest installment makes me believe he has been offered a life changing amount of money for a movie deal, and just needs to insert the needed woke elements into his storyline to appease the backers.
I agree with your comments. You nailed it. I did finish and it didn't get better. Probably by far the most disappointing I've been.
I see you have the leather bounds? Any buyers regret? (I do). You going to continue?
I'm out on stormlight. Going to see how his other stuff develops. If he pulls the W&T approach into his other things, I'm probably done.
I'm keeping my leather bounds (those at least are the earlier books I loved) but I'm glad I stopped getting the new ones. I am unhauling a good chunk of my Sanderson though, and I definitely won't continue Stormlight (and Cosmere in general is very much in question for me)
@nikosbookreviews same as me. I supported the WoR leather bound Kickstarter and now wish I didn't, but I'll keep them. Won't buy anything new.
Thanks again for the video... Glad to know I'm not alone. Really surprised by the 4.8 rating...
Just finish the book, this is a quote towards the end:
"How?” Ishar repeated. “What are you?” He gestured toward Szeth. “Are you … are you his spren? His god?”
“No,” Kaladin said. “I’m his therapist.”
After that I ended up in hospital, having overdosed on cringe.
Oh I heard that word was used, that adds a lot more context. Yeah so many things like that I've seen just are things that take me out of a book immediately
that was a very epic moment and fulfillment of kaladins arc. i probably would have enjoyed it more without the “therapist” part but i think a lot of his fans will enjoy the humor of it
Eh at least there's in-world-explanation here. I can believe it enough.
“No, I’m The Stormlight Archive book 5, Wind and Truth, by Brandon Sanderson”
I finished it a couple of days ago and I agree with almost all of your points. Plus the ending was probably the weakest among all of cosmere books, especially for a book with a 10 years break before the sequel.
Compared to this the other recent cosmere books by BS were a lot more enjoyable with very good endings.
Yeah I've heard that from some others as well, and with it starting so poorly and having a weaker end....just didn't seem worth it
With the loss of his previous editor, Brandon Sanderson has surrounded himself with yes-men. It does not help that he frequents his own Reddit to gain validation and argue with people. Despite attempting to widen his net, the second half of the Stormligh archive is guaranteed to appeal to a much smaller group.
I dropped the series after Oathbringer, because I could tell that we would just be going over the same character arcs again and again. I really don't want to see Kaladin struggle and then overcome depression seven more times.
Only read preview chapters so far but i did notice terrible monologue dialogue from some of the fused etc. Character moments seeming outof place or over the top like Kaladin scolding the librarian because she was annoyed with syl.... Im getting more and more concerned about his direction and quality of writing lately...
Yeah I've heard some of it gets better as you continue, but what I read was just so...bad...I just couldn't bring myself to continue
I think one of the key points you said about the core heart and feel has changed. Part of it is forcing in modern ideas and perspectives without blending them naturally into the story. I agree it feels like his circle while it has grown with beta readers and others, I think there are fewer people pushing back on some ideas and there are more influences pushing him to add more and more modern ideas just to have them in there. I finished the book after reading it nonstop for 2 days, and I thought part of the letdown was just that I read it too fast, but I also think some of it is that truly the book was a bit of let down in and of itself, partly just because the anticipation and expectations practically always are higher than the actual experience, but also because it is losing some of that soul it seemed to have. Adding real world curse words, some scenes and themes is shifting Sanderson from being an author I can blanket recommend to needing to add some qualifications and flags especially when talking with younger cousins or others. I also agree that the length was unnecessary, and it dragged on at times. I liked the last little bit with Kaladin. Some of the developing story and the associated themes around Adolin are odd considering how oaths play such an important role. (I don't want to spoil, so I'll leave it vague).
I typically would read new Stormlight books in a few days as well so can get that, but yeah the feel really just was different from page one with this one. A lot of people have still enjoyed the book, which is great, but it does seem like it's just getting further and further away in terms of writing from where we started
A 100% agree with you. Currently arguing my my friends on how Kaladin the therapist is sus.
Not sure how much sense this makes but I have no plans to DNF and I’m enjoying it more than not but also I agree with almost everything you said at the same time.😂
You're not alone there! There have been a lot of comments of people with similar thoughts, and hey I'm glad the good is outweighing the bad for you!
This is spot on what i dislike most about Sanderson, why i couldn't get into Tress too, i didn't mind the prose being simple but the terminology being our-world terms is endlessly frustrating
I was hoping that was more of an isolated thing with that book, but yeah it seems like we'll likely see that more and more
@nikosbookreviews all things considered though i really enjoyed wind and truth. I'm also a world-first fantasy reader and i hadnt realized ehat you verbalized in the video, how stormlight has changed into a much more character centric story, or moreso /that/ it had changed at all but looking back it has and that's probably why I'm less crazy about 3-5. I remember the dismay i felt realizing 4 would be pretty much entirely in urithiru lol. Despite all that i really enjoyed wind and truth i devoured it at 1.75 speed which probably helped glaze over the length and faults, and it was a really satisfying if infuriatingly open ended conclusion to the journey of characters i didn't realize i was growing to really love.
Way of Kings and Words of Radiance are stellar. Oathbringer and Rhythm of War are flawed but full of great moments and ideas. This one... Yeah, I think others have nailed it when it comes to a severe drop in prose, particularly its marvelification. The writing has always been relatively simple, but this allowed scenes to speak for themselves and it never felt like a means for sacrificing the tone or style of epic fantasy. Now, characters sound like caricatures of themselves, like people who know they're in an action movie intended for a modern audience, making the writing seriously dip into YA if not outright fanfiction at times. Some moments just come off as juvenile in such an extreme way it totally breaks the tone that has been built up over the past four books.
insert mature and respectful response here
Why do people call Stormlight a "Grand Epic Fantasy?" It's like reading a video game with gay characters shoehorned in.
Sanderson's writing has always been juvenile. But in the early days he was still that kid reading under his blanket with a flashlight saying "THIS IS AWESOME". Now he's an industry. The joy has been gone for a long time. I've always had a touch and go relationship with his books. I've DNF'd a bunch of them, but I've at least started a lot of them. I kept going back even though I had regular grievances (poor prose, YA feel, bad jokes, cartoony characters). When I DNF'd Oathbreaker I finally said I'm done with him. Also, fwiw, Stormlight Archive is by far the most overrated fantasy series of all time.
His writing has always been very simplistic, but it was a very steep drop off in WaT (as crazy as that may sound)
Yes!! I just posted an earlier comment - everyone is under some collective delusion. Sanderson is like Nickelback, it kind of sounds like music and people love it , but Nickelback is not music or art. Also in this analogy Rothfuss is Nirvana.
@@dragonsandwarts5644 Or maybe, just maybe. You're a cynic.
I don't like this book, but to claim that everyone who likes Sanderson (or Nickelback) is delusional is just makes you look like a condescending bastard.
I've had quite a few of these thoughts, too, except maybe the 'worse' writing, but only because Wind and Truth had a few stellar lines, and where it counted the writing was suitably epic. Great video, and great points!
@@apebblemaster4570 I've definitely heard from others that the good outweighed the bad for them, and I think that's great! This didn't work for me but I'm glad it has for others.
Haven't gotten to Wind and Truth yet. But for similar reasons I'm glad to hear he doesn't plan to release any of the coming Elantris or Mistborn books until he has finished writing the lot of them.
Probably a good thing!
Brandon has became George Lucas and Shallan has become Jarjar Binks.
@@Jlbrack84 🤣
“Meesa have Mui Mui personalities! Meesa have Mui Mui mental problems!”
if you skip to ch 120s or so you can enjoy the sanderlanche, it's arguably his worst stormlight one even ROW's ending sequence was kino
Honestly I've found myself just not even really caring about not knowing how it ends...and that's what really tells me putting it down was the right call