Lee, if by any chance that case does go to court, make sure you publish the proceedings notification on UA-cam so we can all see who it is…this would be in the public domain, typically published by the court themselves.
i was in the trade for a very long time and have way less years ahead than behind and still to this day i get shocked by the actions of morally bankrupt people, there are opportunists everywhere so sadly you have to protect yourselves by any means necessary, record, film and photograph everything.
I personally left the mechanic world after a decade of being self employed, as it was near impossible to get people to just pay their bill. Everyone wants money off, even if you are only making £20 after parts. You end up spending more time chasing bills than working on jobs sometimes. I've had a Suzuki Vitara lying in the yard for about 7 years, as after what was weeks of chassis welding, patching and panel work to get it up to standard, the cheapskate tried to get away with it as "a favour" It can rot as far as I'm concerned, then he'll be out the cost of the entire jeep never mind the £400 for the job. People are cheap. Full stop.
Don't worry mate, let him take that one to court, he has no paper that states you should renovate the gearbox, it won't hold in court, you can't lose that one, they know those kinds of people who think they can play the system they meet them all the time, they can see when things not add up, I don't think it is going to court at all they will not allow it when he has no paper that state you had an agreement to renovate the gearbox, send him a letter that he has to take you to court, and don't talk to him on the phone all is going on paper from here on.
You have got the invoice for repair of the damaged selecter shaft, Take the guy to court you have evidence of work you did he hasn't got any evidence. Independent engineers report. Means nothing. He could have gone to a scrapyard and a knackered box and got a bloke to do a report.
Quite agree, you have invoices for work done he has no proof of requested work, recommendations or that the gearbox he had assessed was the same box. Surely burden of proof is on him?
Obviously as you said you took on that Job to carry out an partial stripping of the box so as to to carry out a detailed physical Inspection without a total tear down so as to recommend a course of action for the client, after which you re assembled with new gaskets and handed same back to him an old forty year old gearbox with an already existing whine, giving your assessment of what his options were in the interim which were basically live with same, or as you said that maybe with a more modern yet backwards compatible premium Gear Oil might possible have some effect, if he was personally willing to take that option, that being up to himself...He paid the Invoice, End of Story and also NO Warranty was ever given or even implied as you didn't do a REBUILD on same just a 'Inspection' and Report back to him as requested and your findings on this over forty year old Gearbox...Thus Not a REPAIR... you're well well covered and he's just trying to wear you down as many are saying ... Enjoy your New Year... Great Uploads over the past Year...
He's always not honouring warranties. Most folk don't have to use it. But they don't expect the weaseling that goes on here, should they need to claim. It isn't a coincidence, that the word is "honouring" a warranty.
I have 46 years in the trade, it’s only the past few years it’s become like this. There were always the odd one would try it on but nowadays it’s so common. It hurts when you are being open and honest. The more you try and help the worst it gets. We use photos, videos, e mail everything for evidence, and voice safe everything. If they know you are recording they will be aware you are on your guard. It’s a sad state of affairs. Great video please keep them coming.
I disagree, and quite vehemently. One *always* had to be careful to make sure the agreement is understood, and committed to a medium. Memory and 'he says she says' has never worked in business and law. A verbal agreement is only as good as having a witness. And that has always been the case.
Not everyone is like this but cost of running a business and just cost of living now, no one can soak up the 1in 100 that dick you over or drag their feet.
I live in the USA and am having a Ford 390 block built up into a 445 stroker engine. After paying the local shop to clean and inspect the block and knowing it was rebuildable, and wasn't cracked, we discussed the project and the shop then put together a written quote. With the written quote in hand I moved forward. As there is a lot of parts needed (new crank, rods, pistons, heads, intake, carb, distributor, and on and on) only the block is original, I had to pay for the parts up front, and they are coming in. Part of the quote is the labor which is due once the engine is done. I would suggest in all cases to put everything in writing to protect yourself mainly but technically so the customer has a written record as well. Sad that today things are as they are but when it comes down to it you have to protect yourself. Absolutely never take in any work from that guy again, and even put the word out to any other shop you might have a relationship with to stay away from that guy.
These people are everywhere. We were working on land owned by a foreign woman. We were hand digging a 1m squared by 800mm deep hole on a utility, about 30m from her property. A couple of weeks after we had finished and left site, we received a letter from her solicitor accusing us of causing subsidence and damage to her house to the value of £250k. When I phoned her for an explanation she was very angry and said respond to the solicitor. I knew she was up to something so I googled her to find her husband had been arrested in her homeland and had had a £250k bail put on his head. I sent this information to her solicitor and said no way a small hand dug hole would cause this damage and that I'd see them in court. Never heard from them or her again. Subsequently worked for one of her neighbours and they said she had tried suing the whole street for various things down the years! Some bloody chancers out there unfortunately.
I love your videos keep up the good work. I'm self employed and have found myself shying away from the general public because of this rubbish. Every stage of my business dealings are documented in email, phone conversations are backed up by an email acknowledgement. I also find this way helps weed out the unscrupulous as they can see where this leads.
An old saying one of the best engine builders I have know used to say:All racing engines built by everyone are hand grenades with the pin pulled-the trick is to get them back to put the pin back in before they let go. Same holds true for every engine.
Yes, I'm afraid you need everything written down in writing and plenty of photos of the job. A pain, but it has saved me far more than the time it takes.
It might be a good idea to punchmark every engine and box you rebuild so you know that you are not being presented with a so called warranty claim that is actually NOT the one you rebuilt! Use something that cannot be easily reproduced, put it somewhere out of the way and don't tell the customer that you have marked it! Phil
Put your own serial number on each piece of work and keep a logbook of every number, record the date, type, OE serial number, work done and so on, I deal with several engineering companies who do it this way and it really works
I always left a mark inside every job i ever did. My stamped initials in certain locations, formally it was just my way of signing off that the job was mine and I was proud of my work and willing to put my name on it. I never had to use them as proof, but in my later years as a mechanic they did become a sign of proof to tell me if the job was mine or not if i ever needed it as more of these opportunists and con artists came out of the woodwork. Remember a bloke who brought in a classic. We did a job and on pickup he pointed out his small hubcaps were gone on his Holden and tried to force us to replace them, they are bloody expensive at about $1500 for 4 of them. We just laughed at him and pointed out they were never there when he brought the car in. I did notice the caps were missing and thinking it was a shame. I loved my Valiants, colleague loved his Nissans and the boss loved his Fords. None of us would touch or even consider looking at a Holden let alone could be bothered trying to sell such parts for a Holden since none of us had sources for them. He did take us to court over them and we were forced to pay for 4 new caps. The only ones we could find, since they were fairly rare, were really rough and dinted and scratched badly. Either way he pretty much lost out and there was nothing the courts could do about it. We also blacklisted him and spread the word to all the other local businesses that he was scamming people. Found a couple others that he had also did it to, but overall he would have to go to some rural car mechanic out in the sticks to find someone who would touch his car ever again.
Excellent footage from Isaac and Paul! And their commentary! More please... Don't be so scared of what the court might rule, you might be very surprised. I would counsel that you present your case in a more polished, unemotional way. You have a lot of information that needs to be presented well. It might help to practice the spiel, write it down to review with yourself, and then have it on hand mentally to deliver it smoothly and as concisely as you can. Don't ramble. Welcome the court case, and welcome it with confidence.
@@samrodian919 If you know all the facts and can speak well it's best to speak for yourself, like that you can answer all the questions and argue with the other guys brief who won't know all the details and win the judge over, been there done that!
And if there's anythings they didn't bill him for, now's the time to send him a big stack of bills for every single minuscule item that you could conceivably bill him for.
@@rotax636nut5 yes I agree with you, sorry I didn't make myself clear. I meant that his solicitor should sort and set out the facts in the way the court would want them presented. So that Lee can speak for himself. Not to actually speak for Lee.
I'm mostly impressed by the fact you appear to have managed to get a doctors appointment in less than 3 months...... Re the gearbox, yes, it is sad I quite agree...but sadly you are just going to have to assume everyone you deal with is going to try and do you over. It doesn't mean you have to treat them that way, just that you have to have processes in place to prevent it. FWIW, if everything is on paper then personally, I'd be happier that way as verbal communication is so often open to confusion and misunderstanding. It needn't be confrontational at all, just clear and unambiguous. Hope for the best, expect the worst, avoid disappointment. :)
Many years ago when running a workshop I had someone ring up and say "my name is (so quick I couldn't understand it) and I'm taking you to court". My response was "no problem, I'll see you there", and then I hung up on him. He called back, and asked if I wanted to know what it was about. I said no, when the paperwork turns up, I'll find out everything that I need to, and hung up. He called back again, completely off balance, because he wasn't expecting my response. Turned out he was a lawyer, who had taken his vehicle to another workshop, who had brought it to us because they couldn't fix it, and then blamed us for something that they had stuffed up. Anyway, the end result was that once I told him that I would see him in court, and then both him, and his workshop as well for making intentionally false and misleading statements about our business, everything went quiet. Never heard anything again. In this particular business, every client record had a history file attached to it. Every phone conversation was summarised in that file with a date and time stamp next to it. On a couple of other occasions, those records were invaluable. They are accepted in court as true records of a conversation.
keep it with the solicitor. it's going to cost the customer more than the cost of the gearbox to have his day in court. You have an invoice for the work so you are better covered legally than the customer right now. It isn't strong evidence but it is evidence he signed off on the work done and when. The fact he's come back later to dispute things puts him at a disadvantage.
It's all the evidence there is! And what does the guy want? All he is 'entitled' to would be a gearbox clean + rebuild which he would still have to pay for!
If it comes to proving if this is the same gearbox, the replaced selector will possibly stand out as being less than 40 years old - if you can get your hands on it, that is.
About 7 years ago I had a wicked deal, firm of gearbox recon folks over in Southampton had a Reliant Rialto gearbox in on the shelf they recon'd and the muppet refused to pay so they just kept it, I got it at a very very good price as my gearbox grenaded because of the clutch and I was head in hands and a mate said give these chaps a call and I was happy as anything getting a full recon box that tonite I was flying down the A303 70ish and the box has been abs rock solid. Now my car is in my go to garage for its mot and yearly service, they are like yourself and I knows not to take the piss and they have been solid all the way.
Lee, just had a thought and I feel you should consider this as well. I think this customer has set you up. He said he wanted a gearbox looked at because it was noisy. You helped him with that, took it apart, inspected it, reassembled it and told him it looked pretty good. He did not want to spend any money on it, not even for gaskets. Now he supplies pictures of a gearbox that does not resemble the one you looked in any way. He planned doing the whole switch a roo thing before he even came to your shop. That was the plan, to get you to do some minor work, so the item has been through your hands with little expense to himself and he can then blame you for the destruction of the ring in gearbox. If he is mechanically clueless, who is removing these gearboxes from the car? A mechanics shop? A transmission shop? Who is this so called "engineer" or "expert" that wrote a report? Dig deeper into this. There is more to this than just getting you to pay for his f#@kup of hammering a shaft into the gearbox. This is a planned and deliberate fraud. Let him know you will subpoena his bank records. You will be able to see what parts he has bought and who from and what workshops he has been to. You can contact them and see what this fellow has been up to.
Lee you have a vid of when he tried to install the gear box. In doing so he used a hammer on the shift shaft. Just take that to your solicitor & let them present it. You only took the gear box apart, inspected it & put it back together.
This is no set-up. The is just a guy who is very opinionated, not the brightest, and has put two and two together and got five. He believes the gearbox was perfect when it left Barum and now there is a problem so Barum must have done something. It maybe that as simple as the customer is confused, or even someone else has swapped it over with or without his knowledge. Far more likely thoughtless than cunning.
@@serialcoins odd how this guy didn't want to spend money for anything, not even gaskets, but he is ok with spending thousands on a solicitor. He could have likely bought a new or reconditioned gearbox for what he has so far spent on "lawyering up". A good solicitor would have counceled him on whether it could possibly have been his own fault, to eliminate the possibility of legal action he may loose. This matter will go to court as this was his plan all along. Either way Barum need to prepare themselves. Realising there is malice involved is a good way to steel yourself.
@@Hydrogenblonde This unwillingness to spend any money, unwillingness to have a professional gearbox shop take a look at it, should be the angle of attack Barum go on. It may just be a money claim which will cost £100, or a few solicitor's letters, which would cost £30 a time. But this guy has to bring proof to the court, that Barum were negligent. People can make as many claims as they want, the the court only accept proof. I've had to sue a couple of my customers. The only reason I could do this was because I had proof, many provided by my customers tying themselves in knots.
Issac is doing well keep on mentoring him. Surprised at how well he's doing vid's and he's really gotten good at doing the job. As for the nasty bit, know you've just started recording everything and he's trying to slip in obviously he's watching your channel and trying to slip in below the wire. Your business is straight up and honest so people taking advantage of it will appear. I'fve watched for awhile and all you've been doing is getting better, business sucks but that's how you earn your living along with great support staff. The Cr*p will not stop[ but if you keep recording (make sure your answering machine and phone state's your recording for training purposes) things will be easier to solve. Love watching as I'm now to old to lift anywhere the weights you do and being out of doing 'engine mod's' I really enjoy watching people that are really good at their work plus really good tips. Don't stop from a few bad eggs (or apples if you remember the song) just keep being the professionals you are. Merry Xmas and a better new year form New Zealand. Cheer's all.
Unfortunately we live in a world today where we need to fire some of the customers. You're not alone, all mechanics, shops, trades have to put up with this in the modern world.. The trick is to be able to spot this sort as early as you can, keep your shields up, and send them on their way. Also beware of the con man who will play you honestly on smaller deals building your confidence in them leading you toward some larger deal where they end up stiffing you.
The simplest measure, as others have suggested is to have a menu of cost and service. If you post your rates and work simply walking on the premises is a legal agreement to what is being offered
We had a similar customer at a bicycle store I worked at regarding an elctric bicycle. In the end the store decided to just pay the guy to get rid of him. And the bike got scrapped even though it was perfectly repairable.
Definitely need to record phone calls on the business line if your using your personal line you can download an app to record your phone calls on your mobile but like I said previously you need to email confirmation on every job you do aswell, phone and agree with the customer but tell them the job won't commence until you have email confirmation.
Lee,you hit the nail on the head,treat EVERYONE like they're going to rip you off.they pretty much all want something for nothing,and in this case,they want you to pay them. Have a good Christmas guys.👍👍😎😎
After many years in the motor trade, I can relate to what you are going through. I became disillusioned with how things have changed during the last few years and how this is becoming more common that I decided to retire earlier. Fortunately, I was in a position to do so, but what I did learn in the last few years, don`t be afraid to turn some work and customers away. Sadly, this is not unique to the motor trade and I have friends who experience the same issues in all trades now.
Back in the nineties when I was doing engine and headwork I used an electric engraver to put my name and the date on anything I worked on. People still tried it on,until I pointed to the markings
I had a neighbor try to get me for a transmission after I replaced her alternator. Her 7 year old said I was doing burnouts in front of the house with it. I asked here where the tire marks were. That was the last I heard of it. Labor plus gasket kit. No new hard parts. General mechanical condition would be identical when leaving as it was on arrival, with the exception of cleanliness. Not responsible for customers choice of lubricant, regardless of alleged recommendation, ("Modern" does not constitute nor imply "correct") or whether customer even filled it with ANYthing prior to use.
Don't forget pictures too. Even got to where I had to secretly do things such as indexing and orienting things certain ways to prove what was done when people would come back wanting something for nothing. You can always attach pics to an electronic file associated with them on your computer.
Do you contact fellow engine rebuilders in your area about problen people/threives. If another shop gets burnt by somebody like this.....I would want to get a heads up on them, because you know they cant shop where they shit anymore !
I work in a different environment, everything is written down and signed for. Photos taken where needed and stored just in case. If people refuse to deal with you, then you know they would have been the issue. Or as soon as their solicitor contacts you, send over the pack and that hopefully will be the last you hear of it. Its not really a ball ache, you get used to it quickly. Don't put anything in any car until all I's have been dotted etc. Love the engineering in this channel. Happy Chrimbo
On the gearbox. Price out all the parts for every part of the gear box. So if they take you to court that you have evidence of what every part costs. I wonder if he forgot to put oil in the gearbox and ran it dry on the engine not thinking that the gearbox needs lube if you start the engine . I have seen people do that to automatic trans. One guy pulled the converter bolts but the pilot still spun the converter. When the front pump seized it tore up the converter pilot hub and the back of the crank.
When it was important I had a tape recorder plugged in to phone line to record calls,I also now have one on my mobile as I some times find it difficult follow conversion as poor hearing
Not sure if this may help future customer complaints, but I just recently completed 22 years of working for an Audi dealership, and we put a lot of importance on something calld AudiCam. Every technician in the workshop had access to an Ipod and we video reported all our findings, uploaded and sent video to customer. Yes it was time consuming, as it was mandatory procedure on every vehicle entering the workshop, but the customers loved it, and it was video evidence. Food for thought maybe.
Holy Moly! Look at the lenght of those Willy's rods!! And the skirt lenght! Amazing and shocking when you are (too) accustomed to "modern" engine insides.
@@brianiswrong Me neither... my immideate response is "extra reciprocal weight" is usually never beneficial... this is however not anything close to a race engine so maybe it doesn't matter that much if you gain something significant in serviceability/other areas.
It seems to always be the people who you help the most are always the first to try to steal from you. We take before durring and after photos of all our work and a written contract to protect from this!
I agree that it’s a pity that trust with a supplier or garage has resulted in a case like yours. I would hope that if it goes to court common sense would prevail. Do NOT let this customer get away with this.
It it sad, but the important part to remember is you have all the docs to protect you and the business, of course everything is explained as being in the interest of both parties, gives customers warm fuzzy feelings I guess, but it’s all in the best interest of the business.
Well the pictures should show the replaced shift selector you replaced. It should have easily identifiable wear patterns that are different from the rest of the 40 year old parts
And unfortunately I live in the United States and laws are different but, the burden of proof that is the gearbox which you worked on is the only part that you have to defend. And upon your deposition to the courts, you only need to verify that this gearbox is in fact the one you inspected and replaced the shift part on. And when you give your side of all the interactions and transactions with that customer, please keep it detailed, straight forward and simple. Do Not give any more than that. No feelings about what happened or last minute bargaining to minimize the situation or settle it before you go to court. That will imply guilt. On the other side of this, the customer will have to prove to the magistrate or judge that this is the exact same gearbox that he received from your shop. That it has not been tampered with internally and, only been installed and removed. Plus he has to explain how within 40 miles, as he has claimed it has only traveled. Why it is the condition that it is being presented as to another facility and not to you. Thank you for hopefully reading this completely and I hope that it will be helpful advice. Even if you have already thought of this or been told the same thing from someone else. It’s because I have had the same situation before and I respect you, your shop and your channel. Good luck and keep posting these wonderful videos
The number of letters/emails Ive sent confirming back conversations ending “as discussed and agreed” to protect from this situation! I feel for you! It’s been fundamental for a long time I have to say
Noticed what appeared to be paint coating the housing around the Rover valvetrain. We don't see many Rover engines here in the US. Is that how they come from the factory, or is that something a previous builder did? Seems a bit like the Glyptal or red oxide primer some hot rodders use on the inside of engines here.
It’s customary / common practice to discuss repair options with customers over the phone or in person. Suggestion: in the future whoever’s talks to the customer should write down a brief summary of the discussion with the customer and slide it into the job folder. It’s also recommended that you follow up these conversations with an email, text, or mailed letter summarizing what was discussed and what will be done by the shop. You don’t have to immediately write these things down although that’s the best practice. You could write down anything you remember later on and put those notes in the job packet too. I know it’s been suggested before but take lots of picture & save them on your hard drive by customer name, date or job #. Those pictures can be a huge help when a customer starts slinging accusations! That said; even if you don’t have ‘documented evidence’ and its “your word against theirs” that doesn’t mean you would automatically lose in court. Go back and organize your notes in writing and prepare to present your position in a detailed sequence.
Such a shame! Back when I was working on cars, as well a service manager, I was advised by someone with more experience to assume that anyone of your customers could take you to court. With that in mind, everything we do gets authorized AND documented! That way it’s difficult for anyone to work the system. Trust me, it worked. All the best.
We have to mark every recycled part we sell. Too many people try to bring back the buggered old parts they have just replaced for refunds. It’s just how it is now.
Ref the gearbox issue, what does he say is wrong with the box following your rebuild? If it has brass synchronisers and he has tried a modern GL5 synthetic oil in it then it could have knackered the synchros quite quickly in use in a car.
You do have the invoice for the last repair on the selector, may be able to look at the pictures or preferably the gearbox to see if it is there. May at least determine if it is the same gearbox.
Yes you can do that by measuring the crankshaft and putting bearings in a rod,torquing it to spec and use an internal micrometer of some sort and subtract the crank dimension from the rod. You will then get the clearance between the two but using an industry standard tool like plastigague is far far quicker and extremely accurate. No brainier really
Your little rant at the end is exactly why I gave up working for myself and returned to full time employment with a company (I'm an electrician but I have also worked in the motor trade as a spanner rattler). Even when it was all on paper, scope of works, estimate, documented work carried out and as fitted drawings and test certificates supplied along with the final invoice, there was always someone and far too many of them, trying to get a bit more or claim I did something that I'd been nowhere near, claim I hadn't done something I was meant to, when I'd never agreed to do it... see "scope of works" documents... By the end of it, I'd gotten sick of getting stiffed, spending time in "small claims court" for claims that didn't feel small to me, paying lawyers to defend me or prosecute on my behalf, paying business insurance etc. It became so much simpler to just get a job, no longer having to scrape by to pay employees, as just because customers hadn't paid me and I had to pay a lawyer to chase them, doesn't mean I could just not pay them. I don't think many people understand how completely shitty running a business can be. This stuff can eat through your operating cash really quickly and then you have the accountant calling to see what's going on. Good times... good times.
Just an observation regarding the MGB engine I have built a few of them over the years and I noticed with the one your having issues with that you have early conrods fitted to late type pistons early pistons where longer with oil control below the Gudgeon pin as I said just an observation
My friend had a garace in seventies, he overhauled a Vauxhall engine to the customer. While after the the driveshaft gros joint bearing broke and customer claim that it was becaused by that engine overhaul because it happened AFTER the engine overhaul. Garage owners must take all kind of crap before they realise to stop doing work for these idiots.
Maybe it would be a good idea to get yourself a special stamp and stamp all parts of your build. If an engine comes back to you, you would know it was your build. Just a thought,
Thanks to the boys for their interesting segment's. The biggest problem you have now is Judges with no clue about mechanical problems ruling in favor of the customer . I watched a UA-cam car dealership last week, he said somebody was forced to take a car back for refund after 18 months. This is when the owner had wrecked it and caused the whole problem list himself by doing no services on it the whole time ! I honestly don't miss some of my old penny pinching customers I quit working for over the last few years. Take care guys.
As others have said, individuals and organisations try to mislead others or cover up their own inadequacies. I always put in writing (an informal email) what I'll do and output - even for a days work. It doesn't have to be a long formal note, just a few lines/ bulletpoints. Phone calls or face to face meetings don't cut it! In your case - as others have said - I'd mark the components in some way (punch or etch?) every time.. These people try it on with court threats as a routine!
You can still do the phone chat, but take notes and read back. Then both agree then set it out in writing and get it confirmed. It’s a bit of a pain but you have to.
When I was a sole trader my quotes were very detailed. At the bottom of the page I would list the things that weren't included. This bit annoyed some customers who thought it meant I didn't trust them. A friend once had a non paying customer say to him "Remember I have £14K of your money to fight you with" Got to guard yourself against the dodgy ones every step of the way!
Overhauling, restoring and repairing does not mean all new parts . charges from solicitors are so enormous it makes all parts and labour charges seem like nothing . You are completely in the right . Sometimes you actually have to turn awkward customers away. Rather like barring someone from a pub - there are badly behaved people about not many but however good you are you will encounter them. Best swerve them at the earliest possible stage .
It's a sad world I'm afraid, can't trust anyone! Best way in future is to do what my doctor serjury does,recorded message given out before phone answered to the effect that all calls are recorded for training and reference purposes! That's a legal requirement in UK to inform caller there been recorded! That l believe will help you a great deal, stop time/Money waisted litigation! Happy healthy and prosperous New year to you all!!
If the toe rag was reluctant to cough up £50 for a gasket set then he isn’t going to cough up a few grand up front to a solicitor. I would doubt the authenticity of the independent engineer’s report too.
Lee, personal experience has taught me and my business about your reputation and current/previous customer experiences with your company. My advice will be the following, get as many customers as you can to write out their personal experiences with your company which will show the court your honesty and professionalism, all that customer has got is a bloated out tale of lies. Get as many customer reviews in writing as possible because once his solicitor is presented with all of your evidence as opposed to his which is very little then he may be forced to withdraw his services. I suspect the solicitor is one of the ambulance chaser brigade, no win no fee and if they are aware they have no chance of winning they will drop the case. As I’ve stated i run my own auto repair business and I’ve been on both sides and not backed down on either. Please let me know if this helps……
The NHS have a saying. If it isn't written down it never happened. What they mean is that you should record everything you do or say. Any phone conversations I have with customers regarding work are confirmed by email whether they ask for it or not (including verbal agreements to proceed). Even if it relates to issues found during the job. Unless they specifically reply, it doesn't matter if they later say they didn't agree with what is written. The fact is you have a record and they don't.
The customer must legally give you access to the gearbox to both inspect and repair. Before it goes anywhere near a courtroom. Your own solicitor should know this basic legal requirement.
Time to start recording every phone call and document every piece of equipment that you see. The days of the “gentleman’s agreement” haven’t existed since the internal combustion engine was first invented, something I was taught by my father in the 1970’s! For every nice genuine customer that will be grateful for anything you can do, expect to come across a dozen or more ready to shaft a smallish engineering because the buggers know that a reputation is hard to repair (even when you have all the proof). Good luck to you and the team - hope you feel better soon, and that tight-fisted toe rags don’t spoil your generosity.
Sad but true. It's interesting that he and not his solicitor replied to your solicitor's letter. Stand your ground and make him prove his case to a Judge if he feels strongly enough, the ball's in his court. "Nudge nudge nice talk handshake deal then do the work" got you nowhere before and it won't this time either, not with him. Oh, and get well soon!
If you’re taken to court. Demand access ti the box, to inspect. If it is, the same box. All the gadgets will still be new and brand stamped. The part you also replaced, that the customer broke, will also still be new. Don’t want try about not having a paper trail to to defend yourself. Means they don’t have the same to price your guilt. The guys at it. Might also be worthwhile, getting your solicitor to start to doing some financial background checks.
Hi mate. I`m afraid I agree. Get everything agreed on email before you do any work. Unless of course you know and trust the customer. Its the way of the world. sadly. Even in industry I`ve had situations where even people I`ve known for years have stabbed me just to get a medal or get them out of a mistake they've made. People mate. Watch ya back.
Lee get a standard set of terms and conditions done by your solicitor send them out with every job and get every job confirmed in writing. Put a standard diagnostics charge in too. Let this one drop into court. Sad times we live in. Having to make big changes to my own business for this very sort of thing
I wouldn't worry about this chancer they try it on with the threat of court because many people don't like going to court, just write back stating your case and that this will be defended also you will be looking to recoup any losses.
Your right mate everyone seem to want something for nothing these days if they think they got a chance they will try it shame really you can’t take peoples word for things these days 🤷🏻♂️
i had a same sought of problem and legaly as long as you are prepaired to fix the problem he does not have a leg to stand i won my case because the customer refused to bring it back for us to sort it out
There's mention of an "engineer's report". That may or may not be true, relevant or bearing on the weight of the arguments. The 'qualifications' of that "report", if indeed it exists, may just be Joe down the alley.
What we need in the trade is a list of punters who try to be clever, so no matter where they go the business has the information necessary to not get into situations like this. It's becoming far too common place.
I don't know where this guy thinks you're responsible for over $2000. He's bloody daft and is a scammer trying to strong-arm you. I'd fight to the end and sue him.
Sad that this one is still going on! Most people generally don't know the difference between repair, refurbish, rebuild, remanufacture, etc. Remember (at least here in the US) anyone can file a lawsuit. WINNING that case is an entirely different matter! Good luck! 🤬
Go to court and tell them just what you told us they will toss it out. Hold off as he is bluffing anyhow. The old saying is that " There are no friends in business " and so the old handshake days are gone. Paper trail everything and get people to sign the invoice which means they accept the work that has been done.
The chap who does my plumbing jobs, and also has installed a new kitchen, put in new bathroom and en-suite, and refurbed the downstairs loo is the best tradesman I have ever come across. For every job he submitted a quotation with a complete description of the work, listing all the jobs. Where I was supplying parts this was also in the quote document. It seems to me you've been rather too much concentrating on the actual work, and no enough on formalising in a document the work to be done. We always agree verbally to proceed based on the quotation, and I have always been totally satisfied. However you may need to formalise acceptance of the work to be done in future, as well as the quotation or estimate. Oh, and maybe start a customer black list.
Thanks Lee, good video and it’s unfortunate your ex customer has to treat you this way. It would be nice to get his version of events but I understand that this wouldn’t happen on here. Stick to the facts and just feed in a bit of background to the case. Good luck.
About the Rover engine: Are the lower oil ring supposed to be installed on a "new" engine? Aren't the lower control ring the supposed to be installed on a worn engine to stop excessive oil consumption?
@@k.kristianjonsson1537 It was protocol to install the oil control rings after a running in period that practice no longer exists with modern ring sets.
Lee, if by any chance that case does go to court, make sure you publish the proceedings notification on UA-cam so we can all see who it is…this would be in the public domain, typically published by the court themselves.
Yes, we need to know who this chancer is, in case he comes calling round our way.
i was in the trade for a very long time and have way less years ahead than behind and still to this day i get shocked by the actions of morally bankrupt people, there are opportunists everywhere so sadly you have to protect yourselves by any means necessary, record, film and photograph everything.
I personally left the mechanic world after a decade of being self employed, as it was near impossible to get people to just pay their bill. Everyone wants money off, even if you are only making £20 after parts. You end up spending more time chasing bills than working on jobs sometimes. I've had a Suzuki Vitara lying in the yard for about 7 years, as after what was weeks of chassis welding, patching and panel work to get it up to standard, the cheapskate tried to get away with it as "a favour" It can rot as far as I'm concerned, then he'll be out the cost of the entire jeep never mind the £400 for the job. People are cheap. Full stop.
100%
Don't worry mate, let him take that one to court, he has no paper that states you should renovate the gearbox, it won't hold in court, you can't lose that one, they know those kinds of people who think they can play the system they meet them all the time, they can see when things not add up, I don't think it is going to court at all they will not allow it when he has no paper that state you had an agreement to renovate the gearbox, send him a letter that he has to take you to court, and don't talk to him on the phone all is going on paper from here on.
You have got the invoice for repair of the damaged selecter shaft, Take the guy to court you have evidence of work you did he hasn't got any evidence.
Independent engineers report.
Means nothing.
He could have gone to a scrapyard and a knackered box and got a bloke to do a report.
Quite agree, you have invoices for work done he has no proof of requested work, recommendations or that the gearbox he had assessed was the same box. Surely burden of proof is on him?
Obviously as you said you took on that Job to carry out an partial stripping of the box so as to to carry out a detailed physical Inspection without a total tear down so as to recommend a course of action for the client, after which you re assembled with new gaskets and handed same back to him an old forty year old gearbox with an already existing whine, giving your assessment of what his options were in the interim which were basically live with same, or as you said that maybe with a more modern yet backwards compatible premium Gear Oil might possible have some effect, if he was personally willing to take that option, that being up to himself...He paid the Invoice, End of Story and also NO Warranty was ever given or even implied as you didn't do a REBUILD on same just a 'Inspection' and Report back to him as requested and your findings on this over forty year old Gearbox...Thus Not a REPAIR... you're well well covered and he's just trying to wear you down as many are saying ... Enjoy your New Year... Great Uploads over the past Year...
He's always not honouring warranties.
Most folk don't have to use it.
But they don't expect the weaseling that goes on here, should they need to claim.
It isn't a coincidence, that the word is "honouring" a warranty.
?
I have 46 years in the trade, it’s only the past few years it’s become like this. There were always the odd one would try it on but nowadays it’s so common. It hurts when you are being open and honest. The more you try and help the worst it gets. We use photos, videos, e mail everything for evidence, and voice safe everything. If they know you are recording they will be aware you are on your guard. It’s a sad state of affairs. Great video please keep them coming.
100%Agree with you Lee can't trust anybody these days it's a very sad state of affairs
I disagree, and quite vehemently. One *always* had to be careful to make sure the agreement is understood, and committed to a medium. Memory and 'he says she says' has never worked in business and law. A verbal agreement is only as good as having a witness. And that has always been the case.
Not everyone is like this but cost of running a business and just cost of living now, no one can soak up the 1in 100 that dick you over or drag their feet.
I live in the USA and am having a Ford 390 block built up into a 445 stroker engine. After paying the local shop to clean and inspect the block and knowing it was rebuildable, and wasn't cracked, we discussed the project and the shop then put together a written quote. With the written quote in hand I moved forward. As there is a lot of parts needed (new crank, rods, pistons, heads, intake, carb, distributor, and on and on) only the block is original, I had to pay for the parts up front, and they are coming in. Part of the quote is the labor which is due once the engine is done. I would suggest in all cases to put everything in writing to protect yourself mainly but technically so the customer has a written record as well. Sad that today things are as they are but when it comes down to it you have to protect yourself. Absolutely never take in any work from that guy again, and even put the word out to any other shop you might have a relationship with to stay away from that guy.
These people are everywhere. We were working on land owned by a foreign woman. We were hand digging a 1m squared by 800mm deep hole on a utility, about 30m from her property. A couple of weeks after we had finished and left site, we received a letter from her solicitor accusing us of causing subsidence and damage to her house to the value of £250k. When I phoned her for an explanation she was very angry and said respond to the solicitor. I knew she was up to something so I googled her to find her husband had been arrested in her homeland and had had a £250k bail put on his head. I sent this information to her solicitor and said no way a small hand dug hole would cause this damage and that I'd see them in court. Never heard from them or her again. Subsequently worked for one of her neighbours and they said she had tried suing the whole street for various things down the years! Some bloody chancers out there unfortunately.
This is Sort of Foreigners that aren't welcome in UK , Cheats & Frauds should be run OUT of UK.
I love your videos keep up the good work. I'm self employed and have found myself shying away from the general public because of this rubbish. Every stage of my business dealings are documented in email, phone conversations are backed up by an email acknowledgement. I also find this way helps weed out the unscrupulous as they can see where this leads.
An old saying one of the best engine builders I have know used to say:All racing engines built by everyone are hand grenades with the pin pulled-the trick is to get them back to put the pin back in before they let go.
Same holds true for every engine.
I like that one! Never heard it before lol
@@samrodian919 Ditto
Yes, I'm afraid you need everything written down in writing and plenty of photos of the job. A pain, but it has saved me far more than the time it takes.
It might be a good idea to punchmark every engine and box you rebuild so you know that you are not being presented with a so called warranty claim that is actually NOT the one you rebuilt! Use something that cannot be easily reproduced, put it somewhere out of the way and don't tell the customer that you have marked it!
Phil
Might be better to use smartwater...not sure if would last though..
Put your own serial number on each piece of work and keep a logbook of every number, record the date, type, OE serial number, work done and so on, I deal with several engineering companies who do it this way and it really works
I always left a mark inside every job i ever did. My stamped initials in certain locations, formally it was just my way of signing off that the job was mine and I was proud of my work and willing to put my name on it. I never had to use them as proof, but in my later years as a mechanic they did become a sign of proof to tell me if the job was mine or not if i ever needed it as more of these opportunists and con artists came out of the woodwork.
Remember a bloke who brought in a classic. We did a job and on pickup he pointed out his small hubcaps were gone on his Holden and tried to force us to replace them, they are bloody expensive at about $1500 for 4 of them.
We just laughed at him and pointed out they were never there when he brought the car in. I did notice the caps were missing and thinking it was a shame.
I loved my Valiants, colleague loved his Nissans and the boss loved his Fords. None of us would touch or even consider looking at a Holden let alone could be bothered trying to sell such parts for a Holden since none of us had sources for them.
He did take us to court over them and we were forced to pay for 4 new caps. The only ones we could find, since they were fairly rare, were really rough and dinted and scratched badly. Either way he pretty much lost out and there was nothing the courts could do about it. We also blacklisted him and spread the word to all the other local businesses that he was scamming people.
Found a couple others that he had also did it to, but overall he would have to go to some rural car mechanic out in the sticks to find someone who would touch his car ever again.
Excellent footage from Isaac and Paul! And their commentary! More please...
Don't be so scared of what the court might rule, you might be very surprised. I would counsel that you present your case in a more polished, unemotional way. You have a lot of information that needs to be presented well. It might help to practice the spiel, write it down to review with yourself, and then have it on hand mentally to deliver it smoothly and as concisely as you can. Don't ramble.
Welcome the court case, and welcome it with confidence.
That's what he has a solicitor for
@@samrodian919 If you know all the facts and can speak well it's best to speak for yourself, like that you can answer all the questions and argue with the other guys brief who won't know all the details and win the judge over, been there done that!
And if there's anythings they didn't bill him for, now's the time to send him a big stack of bills for every single minuscule item that you could conceivably bill him for.
@@rotax636nut5 yes I agree with you, sorry I didn't make myself clear. I meant that his solicitor should sort and set out the facts in the way the court would want them presented. So that Lee can speak for himself. Not to actually speak for Lee.
I'm mostly impressed by the fact you appear to have managed to get a doctors appointment in less than 3 months......
Re the gearbox, yes, it is sad I quite agree...but sadly you are just going to have to assume everyone you deal with is going to try and do you over. It doesn't mean you have to treat them that way, just that you have to have processes in place to prevent it. FWIW, if everything is on paper then personally, I'd be happier that way as verbal communication is so often open to confusion and misunderstanding. It needn't be confrontational at all, just clear and unambiguous.
Hope for the best, expect the worst, avoid disappointment. :)
Totally agree, doctors are like unicorns talked about but never seen..................
Or if you agree something verbally confirm it by email/letter.
Many years ago when running a workshop I had someone ring up and say "my name is (so quick I couldn't understand it) and I'm taking you to court". My response was "no problem, I'll see you there", and then I hung up on him. He called back, and asked if I wanted to know what it was about. I said no, when the paperwork turns up, I'll find out everything that I need to, and hung up. He called back again, completely off balance, because he wasn't expecting my response. Turned out he was a lawyer, who had taken his vehicle to another workshop, who had brought it to us because they couldn't fix it, and then blamed us for something that they had stuffed up. Anyway, the end result was that once I told him that I would see him in court, and then both him, and his workshop as well for making intentionally false and misleading statements about our business, everything went quiet. Never heard anything again. In this particular business, every client record had a history file attached to it. Every phone conversation was summarised in that file with a date and time stamp next to it. On a couple of other occasions, those records were invaluable. They are accepted in court as true records of a conversation.
keep it with the solicitor. it's going to cost the customer more than the cost of the gearbox to have his day in court. You have an invoice for the work so you are better covered legally than the customer right now. It isn't strong evidence but it is evidence he signed off on the work done and when. The fact he's come back later to dispute things puts him at a disadvantage.
It's all the evidence there is! And what does the guy want? All he is 'entitled' to would be a gearbox clean + rebuild which he would still have to pay for!
If it comes to proving if this is the same gearbox, the replaced selector will possibly stand out as being less than 40 years old - if you can get your hands on it, that is.
About 7 years ago I had a wicked deal, firm of gearbox recon folks over in Southampton had a Reliant Rialto gearbox in on the shelf they recon'd and the muppet refused to pay so they just kept it, I got it at a very very good price as my gearbox grenaded because of the clutch and I was head in hands and a mate said give these chaps a call and I was happy as anything getting a full recon box that tonite I was flying down the A303 70ish and the box has been abs rock solid. Now my car is in my go to garage for its mot and yearly service, they are like yourself and I knows not to take the piss and they have been solid all the way.
I wouldn't be touching gearboxes unless you are a specialist.....
Lee, just had a thought and I feel you should consider this as well.
I think this customer has set you up.
He said he wanted a gearbox looked at because it was noisy. You helped him with that, took it apart, inspected it, reassembled it and told him it looked pretty good.
He did not want to spend any money on it, not even for gaskets.
Now he supplies pictures of a gearbox that does not resemble the one you looked in any way.
He planned doing the whole switch a roo thing before he even came to your shop. That was the plan, to get you to do some minor work, so the item has been through your hands with little expense to himself and he can then blame you for the destruction of the ring in gearbox.
If he is mechanically clueless, who is removing these gearboxes from the car?
A mechanics shop?
A transmission shop?
Who is this so called "engineer" or "expert" that wrote a report?
Dig deeper into this.
There is more to this than just getting you to pay for his f#@kup of hammering a shaft into the gearbox.
This is a planned and deliberate fraud.
Let him know you will subpoena his bank records.
You will be able to see what parts he has bought and who from and what workshops he has been to.
You can contact them and see what this fellow has been up to.
Yes. Yes, yes
Lee you have a vid of when he tried to install the gear box. In doing so he used a hammer on the shift shaft. Just take that to your solicitor & let them present it. You only took the gear box apart, inspected it & put it back together.
This is no set-up. The is just a guy who is very opinionated, not the brightest, and has put two and two together and got five. He believes the gearbox was perfect when it left Barum and now there is a problem so Barum must have done something. It maybe that as simple as the customer is confused, or even someone else has swapped it over with or without his knowledge. Far more likely thoughtless than cunning.
@@serialcoins odd how this guy didn't want to spend money for anything, not even gaskets, but he is ok with spending thousands on a solicitor. He could have likely bought a new or reconditioned gearbox for what he has so far spent on "lawyering up".
A good solicitor would have counceled him on whether it could possibly have been his own fault, to eliminate the possibility of legal action he may loose.
This matter will go to court as this was his plan all along.
Either way Barum need to prepare themselves. Realising there is malice involved is a good way to steel yourself.
@@Hydrogenblonde This unwillingness to spend any money, unwillingness to have a professional gearbox shop take a look at it, should be the angle of attack Barum go on. It may just be a money claim which will cost £100, or a few solicitor's letters, which would cost £30 a time. But this guy has to bring proof to the court, that Barum were negligent. People can make as many claims as they want, the the court only accept proof. I've had to sue a couple of my customers. The only reason I could do this was because I had proof, many provided by my customers tying themselves in knots.
Once word gets around about what this character is trying on he may find it very difficult to get any work done.
With respect to the gearbox it sounds like there's no way to prove either argument beyond reasonable doubt so surely this goes nowhere.
Great video 👍 In regards to the gearbox I would argue from the point of the selector repair point and go from their.
Issac is doing well keep on mentoring him. Surprised at how well he's doing vid's and he's really gotten good at doing the job. As for the nasty bit, know you've just started recording everything and he's trying to slip in obviously he's watching your channel and trying to slip in below the wire. Your business is straight up and honest so people taking advantage of it will appear. I'fve watched for awhile and all you've been doing is getting better, business sucks but that's how you earn your living along with great support staff. The Cr*p will not stop[ but if you keep recording (make sure your answering machine and phone state's your recording for training purposes) things will be easier to solve. Love watching as I'm now to old to lift anywhere the weights you do and being out of doing 'engine mod's' I really enjoy watching people that are really good at their work plus really good tips. Don't stop from a few bad eggs (or apples if you remember the song) just keep being the professionals you are. Merry Xmas and a better new year form New Zealand. Cheer's all.
In any correspondence with the guy refer to the gearbox being assessed for condition, not rebuilt .
Unfortunately we live in a world today where we need to fire some of the customers. You're not alone, all mechanics, shops, trades have to put up with this in the modern world.. The trick is to be able to spot this sort as early as you can, keep your shields up, and send them on their way. Also beware of the con man who will play you honestly on smaller deals building your confidence in them leading you toward some larger deal where they end up stiffing you.
The simplest measure, as others have suggested is to have a menu of cost and service. If you post your rates and work simply walking on the premises is a legal agreement to what is being offered
Well put
Agree, i run my own shop and after many years you do know the warning signs however thw odd one still slips through the net
We had a similar customer at a bicycle store I worked at regarding an elctric bicycle. In the end the store decided to just pay the guy to get rid of him. And the bike got scrapped even though it was perfectly repairable.
Definitely need to record phone calls on the business line if your using your personal line you can download an app to record your phone calls on your mobile but like I said previously you need to email confirmation on every job you do aswell, phone and agree with the customer but tell them the job won't commence until you have email confirmation.
You hit the nail on the head when you said it's a sad state of affairs when you can't take someone at there word welcome to the 21st century
Lee,you hit the nail on the head,treat EVERYONE like they're going to rip you off.they pretty much all want something for nothing,and in this case,they want you to pay them.
Have a good Christmas guys.👍👍😎😎
A mate of mine says they are all Cnuts till they prove you wrong. Sadly it’s coming more and more true
@@whitacrebespoke new generation, I work with them. Different world now, a handshake and honour mean nothing.
@@harold6863 sadly it seems this is the case. The past year has been an eye opener for me with some of the customers I’ve had.
After many years in the motor trade, I can relate to what you are going through. I became disillusioned with how things have changed during the last few years and how this is becoming more common that I decided to retire earlier. Fortunately, I was in a position to do so, but what I did learn in the last few years, don`t be afraid to turn some work and customers away. Sadly, this is not unique to the motor trade and I have friends who experience the same issues in all trades now.
Back in the nineties when I was doing engine and headwork I used an electric engraver to put my name and the date on anything I worked on. People still tried it on,until I pointed to the markings
I agree conversation and or handshake, used to be A done deal. Not anymore a shame
I had a neighbor try to get me for a transmission after I replaced her alternator. Her 7 year old said I was doing burnouts in front of the house with it. I asked here where the tire marks were. That was the last I heard of it.
Labor plus gasket kit. No new hard parts. General mechanical condition would be identical when leaving as it was on arrival, with the exception of cleanliness. Not responsible for customers choice of lubricant, regardless of alleged recommendation, ("Modern" does not constitute nor imply "correct") or whether customer even filled it with ANYthing prior to use.
Don't forget pictures too. Even got to where I had to secretly do things such as indexing and orienting things certain ways to prove what was done when people would come back wanting something for nothing. You can always attach pics to an electronic file associated with them on your computer.
Do you contact fellow engine rebuilders in your area about problen people/threives. If another shop gets burnt by somebody like this.....I would want to get a heads up on them, because you know they cant shop where they shit anymore !
I work in a different environment, everything is written down and signed for. Photos taken where needed and stored just in case. If people refuse to deal with you, then you know they would have been the issue. Or as soon as their solicitor contacts you, send over the pack and that hopefully will be the last you hear of it. Its not really a ball ache, you get used to it quickly. Don't put anything in any car until all I's have been dotted etc. Love the engineering in this channel. Happy Chrimbo
On the gearbox. Price out all the parts for every part of the gear box. So if they take you to court that you have evidence of what every part costs.
I wonder if he forgot to put oil in the gearbox and ran it dry on the engine not thinking that the gearbox needs lube if you start the engine . I have seen people do that to automatic trans. One guy pulled the converter bolts but the pilot still spun the converter. When the front pump seized it tore up the converter pilot hub and the back of the crank.
When it was important I had a tape recorder plugged in to phone line to record calls,I also now have one on my mobile as I some times find it difficult follow conversion as poor hearing
Not sure if this may help future customer complaints, but I just recently completed 22 years of working for an Audi dealership, and we put a lot of importance on something calld AudiCam. Every technician in the workshop had access to an Ipod and we video reported all our findings, uploaded and sent video to customer. Yes it was time consuming, as it was mandatory procedure on every vehicle entering the workshop, but the customers loved it, and it was video evidence. Food for thought maybe.
Holy Moly! Look at the lenght of those Willy's rods!! And the skirt lenght! Amazing and shocking when you are (too) accustomed to "modern" engine insides.
I an no engineer,but can't decide if the rod to piston pin bolt is genius or daft designing
@@brianiswrong Me neither... my immideate response is "extra reciprocal weight" is usually never beneficial... this is however not anything close to a race engine so maybe it doesn't matter that much if you gain something significant in serviceability/other areas.
check out Black Belt Barrister Audi R8 gearbox dispute, different problem similar situation.
Yes he is Brilliant!
With the bolted in gauge on pins, you tightened up very not much. What steps them vibrating out & wandering round the engine?
It seems to always be the people who you help the most are always the first to try to steal from you. We take before durring and after photos of all our work and a written contract to protect from this!
I agree that it’s a pity that trust with a supplier or garage has resulted in a case like yours. I would hope that if it goes to court common sense would prevail. Do NOT let this customer get away with this.
It it sad, but the important part to remember is you have all the docs to protect you and the business, of course everything is explained as being in the interest of both parties, gives customers warm fuzzy feelings I guess, but it’s all in the best interest of the business.
Well the pictures should show the replaced shift selector you replaced. It should have easily identifiable wear patterns that are different from the rest of the 40 year old parts
And unfortunately I live in the United States and laws are different but, the burden of proof that is the gearbox which you worked on is the only part that you have to defend. And upon your deposition to the courts, you only need to verify that this gearbox is in fact the one you inspected and replaced the shift part on. And when you give your side of all the interactions and transactions with that customer, please keep it detailed, straight forward and simple. Do Not give any more than that. No feelings about what happened or last minute bargaining to minimize the situation or settle it before you go to court. That will imply guilt. On the other side of this, the customer will have to prove to the magistrate or judge that this is the exact same gearbox that he received from your shop. That it has not been tampered with internally and, only been installed and removed. Plus he has to explain how within 40 miles, as he has claimed it has only traveled. Why it is the condition that it is being presented as to another facility and not to you. Thank you for hopefully reading this completely and I hope that it will be helpful advice. Even if you have already thought of this or been told the same thing from someone else. It’s because I have had the same situation before and I respect you, your shop and your channel. Good luck and keep posting these wonderful videos
The number of letters/emails Ive sent confirming back conversations ending “as discussed and agreed” to protect from this situation! I feel for you! It’s been fundamental for a long time I have to say
Noticed what appeared to be paint coating the housing around the Rover valvetrain. We don't see many Rover engines here in the US. Is that how they come from the factory, or is that something a previous builder did? Seems a bit like the Glyptal or red oxide primer some hot rodders use on the inside of engines here.
It’s customary / common practice to discuss repair options with customers over the phone or in person. Suggestion: in the future whoever’s talks to the customer should write down a brief summary of the discussion with the customer and slide it into the job folder. It’s also recommended that you follow up these conversations with an email, text, or mailed letter summarizing what was discussed and what will be done by the shop. You don’t have to immediately write these things down although that’s the best practice. You could write down anything you remember later on and put those notes in the job packet too. I know it’s been suggested before but take lots of picture & save them on your hard drive by customer name, date or job #. Those pictures can be a huge help when a customer starts slinging accusations! That said; even if you don’t have ‘documented evidence’ and its “your word against theirs” that doesn’t mean you would automatically lose in court. Go back and organize your notes in writing and prepare to present your position in a detailed sequence.
If you both didn't have any agreement on paper, email etc then this is going nowhere .... you need proof to take it to court.
you hit the nail on the head there fella, "you have to treat everyone like they're going to do you over" all because of the actions of a few
Such a shame! Back when I was working on cars, as well a service manager, I was advised by someone with more experience to assume that anyone of your customers could take you to court. With that in mind, everything we do gets authorized AND documented! That way it’s difficult for anyone to work the system. Trust me, it worked. All the best.
We have to mark every recycled part we sell. Too many people try to bring back the buggered old parts they have just replaced for refunds.
It’s just how it is now.
Ref the gearbox issue, what does he say is wrong with the box following your rebuild? If it has brass synchronisers and he has tried a modern GL5 synthetic oil in it then it could have knackered the synchros quite quickly in use in a car.
You do have the invoice for the last repair on the selector, may be able to look at the pictures or preferably the gearbox to see if it is there. May at least determine if it is the same gearbox.
Agreed... worse than sad... Guys a Numpty!
Some serious engine.building talent under one roof. You guys have some talant for sure.
Interesting that you rely on plastigauge to get bearing clearences not measurements
Yes you can do that by measuring the crankshaft and putting bearings in a rod,torquing it to spec and use an internal micrometer of some sort and subtract the crank dimension from the rod. You will then get the clearance between the two but using an industry standard tool like plastigague is far far quicker and extremely accurate. No brainier really
Your little rant at the end is exactly why I gave up working for myself and returned to full time employment with a company (I'm an electrician but I have also worked in the motor trade as a spanner rattler). Even when it was all on paper, scope of works, estimate, documented work carried out and as fitted drawings and test certificates supplied along with the final invoice, there was always someone and far too many of them, trying to get a bit more or claim I did something that I'd been nowhere near, claim I hadn't done something I was meant to, when I'd never agreed to do it... see "scope of works" documents... By the end of it, I'd gotten sick of getting stiffed, spending time in "small claims court" for claims that didn't feel small to me, paying lawyers to defend me or prosecute on my behalf, paying business insurance etc.
It became so much simpler to just get a job, no longer having to scrape by to pay employees, as just because customers hadn't paid me and I had to pay a lawyer to chase them, doesn't mean I could just not pay them.
I don't think many people understand how completely shitty running a business can be. This stuff can eat through your operating cash really quickly and then you have the accountant calling to see what's going on. Good times... good times.
Just an observation regarding the MGB engine I have built a few of them over the years and I noticed with the one your having issues with that you have early conrods fitted to late type pistons early pistons where longer with oil control below the Gudgeon pin as I said just an observation
My friend had a garace in seventies, he overhauled a Vauxhall engine to the customer. While after the the driveshaft gros joint bearing broke and customer claim that it was becaused by that engine overhaul because it happened AFTER the engine overhaul. Garage owners must take all kind of crap before they realise to stop doing work for these idiots.
Maybe it would be a good idea to get yourself a special stamp and stamp all parts of your build.
If an engine comes back to you, you would know it was your build.
Just a thought,
If I remember correctly, you had a video of this gearbox with visual evidence of the internals as presented. Take this chancer to arbitration.
Yes I seem to remember Lee showing it in a video.
Come on Lee look out the footage and any not put in the video if you didn't delete it
Thanks to the boys for their interesting segment's. The biggest problem you have now is Judges with no clue about mechanical problems ruling in favor of the customer . I watched a UA-cam car dealership last week, he said somebody was forced to take a car back for refund after 18 months. This is when the owner had wrecked it and caused the whole problem list himself by doing no services on it the whole time ! I honestly don't miss some of my old penny pinching customers I quit working for over the last few years. Take care guys.
As others have said, individuals and organisations try to mislead others or cover up their own inadequacies. I always put in writing (an informal email) what I'll do and output - even for a days work. It doesn't have to be a long formal note, just a few lines/ bulletpoints. Phone calls or face to face meetings don't cut it!
In your case - as others have said - I'd mark the components in some way (punch or etch?) every time..
These people try it on with court threats as a routine!
You can still do the phone chat, but take notes and read back. Then both agree then set it out in writing and get it confirmed. It’s a bit of a pain but you have to.
Early BMC A-series engines, like a Mini 850, gudgeon pins with a bolt. C R A P.
Court case it is then
When I was a sole trader my quotes were very detailed. At the bottom of the page I would list the things that weren't included. This bit annoyed some customers who thought it meant I didn't trust them. A friend once had a non paying customer say to him "Remember I have £14K of your money to fight you with" Got to guard yourself against the dodgy ones every step of the way!
In the Rover engine did you even look at the rocker bushings?
Do you have to have the exhaust valves out to install the wrist pins in the rods. I know i did with my Rover 75.
After years in the boat business, keep a daily diary of the phone conversations, taking that to court is gold..Its your evidence versus the customers.
Overhauling, restoring and repairing does not mean all new parts . charges from solicitors are so enormous it makes all parts and labour charges seem like nothing . You are completely in the right . Sometimes you actually have to turn awkward customers away. Rather like barring someone from a pub - there are badly behaved people about not many but however good you are you will encounter them. Best swerve them at the earliest possible stage .
It's a sad world I'm afraid, can't trust anyone! Best way in future is to do what my doctor serjury does,recorded message given out before phone answered to the effect that all calls are recorded for training and reference purposes! That's a legal requirement in UK to inform caller there been recorded! That l believe will help you a great deal, stop time/Money waisted litigation! Happy healthy and prosperous New year to you all!!
If the toe rag was reluctant to cough up £50 for a gasket set then he isn’t going to cough up a few grand up front to a solicitor. I would doubt the authenticity of the independent engineer’s report too.
Lee, personal experience has taught me and my business about your reputation and current/previous customer experiences with your company. My advice will be the following, get as many customers as you can to write out their personal experiences with your company which will show the court your honesty and professionalism, all that customer has got is a bloated out tale of lies. Get as many customer reviews in writing as possible because once his solicitor is presented with all of your evidence as opposed to his which is very little then he may be forced to withdraw his services. I suspect the solicitor is one of the ambulance chaser brigade, no win no fee and if they are aware they have no chance of winning they will drop the case. As I’ve stated i run my own auto repair business and I’ve been on both sides and not backed down on either. Please let me know if this helps……
The NHS have a saying. If it isn't written down it never happened. What they mean is that you should record everything you do or say.
Any phone conversations I have with customers regarding work are confirmed by email whether they ask for it or not (including verbal agreements to proceed). Even if it relates to issues found during the job.
Unless they specifically reply, it doesn't matter if they later say they didn't agree with what is written. The fact is you have a record and they don't.
The customer must legally give you access to the gearbox to both inspect and repair. Before it goes anywhere near a courtroom. Your own solicitor should know this basic legal requirement.
Time to start recording every phone call and document every piece of equipment that you see. The days of the “gentleman’s agreement” haven’t existed since the internal combustion engine was first invented, something I was taught by my father in the 1970’s!
For every nice genuine customer that will be grateful for anything you can do, expect to come across a dozen or more ready to shaft a smallish engineering because the buggers know that a reputation is hard to repair (even when you have all the proof).
Good luck to you and the team - hope you feel better soon, and that tight-fisted toe rags don’t spoil your generosity.
Sad but true. It's interesting that he and not his solicitor replied to your solicitor's letter. Stand your ground and make him prove his case to a Judge if he feels strongly enough, the ball's in his court. "Nudge nudge nice talk handshake deal then do the work" got you nowhere before and it won't this time either, not with him. Oh, and get well soon!
If you’re taken to court. Demand access ti the box, to inspect. If it is, the same box. All the gadgets will still be new and brand stamped. The part you also replaced, that the customer broke, will also still be new. Don’t want try about not having a paper trail to to defend yourself. Means they don’t have the same to price your guilt. The guys at it. Might also be worthwhile, getting your solicitor to start to doing some financial background checks.
Yep you are right ---- its a sad world. Gone are the days where a hand shake is the deal and you paid your debts in full.
Being Dutch a handshake would still bind me but then I have principles.
Can we see some compression and inlet pressure testing and things like that .
Good luck with this and any work you do in the future. 👍
Hi mate. I`m afraid I agree. Get everything agreed on email before you do any work. Unless of course you know and trust the customer. Its the way of the world. sadly.
Even in industry I`ve had situations where even people I`ve known for years have stabbed me just to get a medal or get them out of a mistake they've made.
People mate. Watch ya back.
Lee get a standard set of terms and conditions done by your solicitor send them out with every job and get every job confirmed in writing. Put a standard diagnostics charge in too. Let this one drop into court. Sad times we live in. Having to make big changes to my own business for this very sort of thing
I wouldn't worry about this chancer they try it on with the threat of court because many people don't like going to court, just write back stating your case and that this will be defended also you will be looking to recoup any losses.
Your right mate everyone seem to want something for nothing these days if they think they got a chance they will try it shame really you can’t take peoples word for things these days 🤷🏻♂️
When he smashed the selector rod back into the gearbox casing his problems started that would have voided any repairs or warranty.
Guys like him motivated me to create a business with no staff and no customers. I have almost succeeded.
i had a same sought of problem and legaly as long as you are prepaired to fix the problem he does not have a leg to stand i won my case because the customer refused to bring it back for us to sort it out
There's mention of an "engineer's report". That may or may not be true, relevant or bearing on the weight of the arguments. The 'qualifications' of that "report", if indeed it exists, may just be Joe down the alley.
What we need in the trade is a list of punters who try to be clever, so no matter where they go the business has the information necessary to not get into situations like this.
It's becoming far too common place.
I don't know where this guy thinks you're responsible for over $2000. He's bloody daft and is a scammer trying to strong-arm you. I'd fight to the end and sue him.
You can still chat to customers as normal just follow up with a email stating "as discussed etc etc" 👍
Sad that this one is still going on! Most people generally don't know the difference between repair, refurbish, rebuild, remanufacture, etc. Remember (at least here in the US) anyone can file a lawsuit. WINNING that case is an entirely different matter! Good luck! 🤬
Go to court and tell them just what you told us they will toss it out. Hold off as he is bluffing anyhow. The old saying is that " There are no friends in business " and so the old handshake days are gone. Paper trail everything and get people to sign the invoice which means they accept the work that has been done.
Would love to see more of the Clio engine
The chap who does my plumbing jobs, and also has installed a new kitchen, put in new bathroom and en-suite, and refurbed the downstairs loo is the best tradesman I have ever come across. For every job he submitted a quotation with a complete description of the work, listing all the jobs. Where I was supplying parts this was also in the quote document. It seems to me you've been rather too much concentrating on the actual work, and no enough on formalising in a document the work to be done. We always agree verbally to proceed based on the quotation, and I have always been totally satisfied. However you may need to formalise acceptance of the work to be done in future, as well as the quotation or estimate. Oh, and maybe start a customer black list.
Thanks Lee, good video and it’s unfortunate your ex customer has to treat you this way. It would be nice to get his version of events but I understand that this wouldn’t happen on here. Stick to the facts and just feed in a bit of background to the case. Good luck.
About the Rover engine: Are the lower oil ring supposed to be installed on a "new" engine? Aren't the lower control ring the supposed to be installed on a worn engine to stop excessive oil consumption?
No.
@@jostouw4366 Explain or elaborate
@@k.kristianjonsson1537 It was protocol to install the oil control rings after a running in period that practice no longer exists with modern ring sets.