Lee, if by any chance that case does go to court, make sure you publish the proceedings notification on UA-cam so we can all see who it is…this would be in the public domain, typically published by the court themselves.
You can still do the phone chat, but take notes and read back. Then both agree then set it out in writing and get it confirmed. It’s a bit of a pain but you have to.
He can only claim the money he paid you and consequential damages such as installation costs. He can't claim a new box unless your work caused the damage.
He's trying it on...just let your solicitor know that you are not going to pay this bloke and see him in court.. You've been upfront and got nothing to hide so let him waste his money...
I don't get the gearbox job at all. So you didn't put new bearings in or gear sets, just a gasket set? How is cleaning it up and fresh oil going to cure anything?!! I would have insisted on new main shaft bearings at the very least as a process of elimination. We do EVERYTHING via email. I've never liked phone calls or bits of paper, they get lost and forgotten. Email is absolutely gospel as it's date stamped and searchable. As you are obviously so busy, you don't need customers like that anyway. It's his loss, don't deal with him again.
i was in the trade for a very long time and have way less years ahead than behind and still to this day i get shocked by the actions of morally bankrupt people, there are opportunists everywhere so sadly you have to protect yourselves by any means necessary, record, film and photograph everything.
I personally left the mechanic world after a decade of being self employed, as it was near impossible to get people to just pay their bill. Everyone wants money off, even if you are only making £20 after parts. You end up spending more time chasing bills than working on jobs sometimes. I've had a Suzuki Vitara lying in the yard for about 7 years, as after what was weeks of chassis welding, patching and panel work to get it up to standard, the cheapskate tried to get away with it as "a favour" It can rot as far as I'm concerned, then he'll be out the cost of the entire jeep never mind the £400 for the job. People are cheap. Full stop.
Excellent footage from Isaac and Paul! And their commentary! More please... Don't be so scared of what the court might rule, you might be very surprised. I would counsel that you present your case in a more polished, unemotional way. You have a lot of information that needs to be presented well. It might help to practice the spiel, write it down to review with yourself, and then have it on hand mentally to deliver it smoothly and as concisely as you can. Don't ramble. Welcome the court case, and welcome it with confidence.
@@samrodian919 If you know all the facts and can speak well it's best to speak for yourself, like that you can answer all the questions and argue with the other guys brief who won't know all the details and win the judge over, been there done that!
And if there's anythings they didn't bill him for, now's the time to send him a big stack of bills for every single minuscule item that you could conceivably bill him for.
@@rotax636nut5 yes I agree with you, sorry I didn't make myself clear. I meant that his solicitor should sort and set out the facts in the way the court would want them presented. So that Lee can speak for himself. Not to actually speak for Lee.
It might be a good idea to punchmark every engine and box you rebuild so you know that you are not being presented with a so called warranty claim that is actually NOT the one you rebuilt! Use something that cannot be easily reproduced, put it somewhere out of the way and don't tell the customer that you have marked it! Phil
Put your own serial number on each piece of work and keep a logbook of every number, record the date, type, OE serial number, work done and so on, I deal with several engineering companies who do it this way and it really works
I always left a mark inside every job i ever did. My stamped initials in certain locations, formally it was just my way of signing off that the job was mine and I was proud of my work and willing to put my name on it. I never had to use them as proof, but in my later years as a mechanic they did become a sign of proof to tell me if the job was mine or not if i ever needed it as more of these opportunists and con artists came out of the woodwork. Remember a bloke who brought in a classic. We did a job and on pickup he pointed out his small hubcaps were gone on his Holden and tried to force us to replace them, they are bloody expensive at about $1500 for 4 of them. We just laughed at him and pointed out they were never there when he brought the car in. I did notice the caps were missing and thinking it was a shame. I loved my Valiants, colleague loved his Nissans and the boss loved his Fords. None of us would touch or even consider looking at a Holden let alone could be bothered trying to sell such parts for a Holden since none of us had sources for them. He did take us to court over them and we were forced to pay for 4 new caps. The only ones we could find, since they were fairly rare, were really rough and dinted and scratched badly. Either way he pretty much lost out and there was nothing the courts could do about it. We also blacklisted him and spread the word to all the other local businesses that he was scamming people. Found a couple others that he had also did it to, but overall he would have to go to some rural car mechanic out in the sticks to find someone who would touch his car ever again.
Don't worry mate, let him take that one to court, he has no paper that states you should renovate the gearbox, it won't hold in court, you can't lose that one, they know those kinds of people who think they can play the system they meet them all the time, they can see when things not add up, I don't think it is going to court at all they will not allow it when he has no paper that state you had an agreement to renovate the gearbox, send him a letter that he has to take you to court, and don't talk to him on the phone all is going on paper from here on.
You have got the invoice for repair of the damaged selecter shaft, Take the guy to court you have evidence of work you did he hasn't got any evidence. Independent engineers report. Means nothing. He could have gone to a scrapyard and a knackered box and got a bloke to do a report.
Quite agree, you have invoices for work done he has no proof of requested work, recommendations or that the gearbox he had assessed was the same box. Surely burden of proof is on him?
Obviously as you said you took on that Job to carry out an partial stripping of the box so as to to carry out a detailed physical Inspection without a total tear down so as to recommend a course of action for the client, after which you re assembled with new gaskets and handed same back to him an old forty year old gearbox with an already existing whine, giving your assessment of what his options were in the interim which were basically live with same, or as you said that maybe with a more modern yet backwards compatible premium Gear Oil might possible have some effect, if he was personally willing to take that option, that being up to himself...He paid the Invoice, End of Story and also NO Warranty was ever given or even implied as you didn't do a REBUILD on same just a 'Inspection' and Report back to him as requested and your findings on this over forty year old Gearbox...Thus Not a REPAIR... you're well well covered and he's just trying to wear you down as many are saying ... Enjoy your New Year... Great Uploads over the past Year...
He's always not honouring warranties. Most folk don't have to use it. But they don't expect the weaseling that goes on here, should they need to claim. It isn't a coincidence, that the word is "honouring" a warranty.
I live in the USA and am having a Ford 390 block built up into a 445 stroker engine. After paying the local shop to clean and inspect the block and knowing it was rebuildable, and wasn't cracked, we discussed the project and the shop then put together a written quote. With the written quote in hand I moved forward. As there is a lot of parts needed (new crank, rods, pistons, heads, intake, carb, distributor, and on and on) only the block is original, I had to pay for the parts up front, and they are coming in. Part of the quote is the labor which is due once the engine is done. I would suggest in all cases to put everything in writing to protect yourself mainly but technically so the customer has a written record as well. Sad that today things are as they are but when it comes down to it you have to protect yourself. Absolutely never take in any work from that guy again, and even put the word out to any other shop you might have a relationship with to stay away from that guy.
I disagree, and quite vehemently. One *always* had to be careful to make sure the agreement is understood, and committed to a medium. Memory and 'he says she says' has never worked in business and law. A verbal agreement is only as good as having a witness. And that has always been the case.
Not everyone is like this but cost of running a business and just cost of living now, no one can soak up the 1in 100 that dick you over or drag their feet.
keep it with the solicitor. it's going to cost the customer more than the cost of the gearbox to have his day in court. You have an invoice for the work so you are better covered legally than the customer right now. It isn't strong evidence but it is evidence he signed off on the work done and when. The fact he's come back later to dispute things puts him at a disadvantage.
It's all the evidence there is! And what does the guy want? All he is 'entitled' to would be a gearbox clean + rebuild which he would still have to pay for!
These people are everywhere. We were working on land owned by a foreign woman. We were hand digging a 1m squared by 800mm deep hole on a utility, about 30m from her property. A couple of weeks after we had finished and left site, we received a letter from her solicitor accusing us of causing subsidence and damage to her house to the value of £250k. When I phoned her for an explanation she was very angry and said respond to the solicitor. I knew she was up to something so I googled her to find her husband had been arrested in her homeland and had had a £250k bail put on his head. I sent this information to her solicitor and said no way a small hand dug hole would cause this damage and that I'd see them in court. Never heard from them or her again. Subsequently worked for one of her neighbours and they said she had tried suing the whole street for various things down the years! Some bloody chancers out there unfortunately.
Lee, just had a thought and I feel you should consider this as well. I think this customer has set you up. He said he wanted a gearbox looked at because it was noisy. You helped him with that, took it apart, inspected it, reassembled it and told him it looked pretty good. He did not want to spend any money on it, not even for gaskets. Now he supplies pictures of a gearbox that does not resemble the one you looked in any way. He planned doing the whole switch a roo thing before he even came to your shop. That was the plan, to get you to do some minor work, so the item has been through your hands with little expense to himself and he can then blame you for the destruction of the ring in gearbox. If he is mechanically clueless, who is removing these gearboxes from the car? A mechanics shop? A transmission shop? Who is this so called "engineer" or "expert" that wrote a report? Dig deeper into this. There is more to this than just getting you to pay for his f#@kup of hammering a shaft into the gearbox. This is a planned and deliberate fraud. Let him know you will subpoena his bank records. You will be able to see what parts he has bought and who from and what workshops he has been to. You can contact them and see what this fellow has been up to.
Lee you have a vid of when he tried to install the gear box. In doing so he used a hammer on the shift shaft. Just take that to your solicitor & let them present it. You only took the gear box apart, inspected it & put it back together.
This is no set-up. The is just a guy who is very opinionated, not the brightest, and has put two and two together and got five. He believes the gearbox was perfect when it left Barum and now there is a problem so Barum must have done something. It maybe that as simple as the customer is confused, or even someone else has swapped it over with or without his knowledge. Far more likely thoughtless than cunning.
@@serialcoins odd how this guy didn't want to spend money for anything, not even gaskets, but he is ok with spending thousands on a solicitor. He could have likely bought a new or reconditioned gearbox for what he has so far spent on "lawyering up". A good solicitor would have counceled him on whether it could possibly have been his own fault, to eliminate the possibility of legal action he may loose. This matter will go to court as this was his plan all along. Either way Barum need to prepare themselves. Realising there is malice involved is a good way to steel yourself.
@@Hydrogenblonde This unwillingness to spend any money, unwillingness to have a professional gearbox shop take a look at it, should be the angle of attack Barum go on. It may just be a money claim which will cost £100, or a few solicitor's letters, which would cost £30 a time. But this guy has to bring proof to the court, that Barum were negligent. People can make as many claims as they want, the the court only accept proof. I've had to sue a couple of my customers. The only reason I could do this was because I had proof, many provided by my customers tying themselves in knots.
I love your videos keep up the good work. I'm self employed and have found myself shying away from the general public because of this rubbish. Every stage of my business dealings are documented in email, phone conversations are backed up by an email acknowledgement. I also find this way helps weed out the unscrupulous as they can see where this leads.
I don't know where this guy thinks you're responsible for over $2000. He's bloody daft and is a scammer trying to strong-arm you. I'd fight to the end and sue him.
Yes you can do that by measuring the crankshaft and putting bearings in a rod,torquing it to spec and use an internal micrometer of some sort and subtract the crank dimension from the rod. You will then get the clearance between the two but using an industry standard tool like plastigague is far far quicker and extremely accurate. No brainier really
An old saying one of the best engine builders I have know used to say:All racing engines built by everyone are hand grenades with the pin pulled-the trick is to get them back to put the pin back in before they let go. Same holds true for every engine.
I have 46 years in the trade, it’s only the past few years it’s become like this. There were always the odd one would try it on but nowadays it’s so common. It hurts when you are being open and honest. The more you try and help the worst it gets. We use photos, videos, e mail everything for evidence, and voice safe everything. If they know you are recording they will be aware you are on your guard. It’s a sad state of affairs. Great video please keep them coming.
Yes, I'm afraid you need everything written down in writing and plenty of photos of the job. A pain, but it has saved me far more than the time it takes.
I'm mostly impressed by the fact you appear to have managed to get a doctors appointment in less than 3 months...... Re the gearbox, yes, it is sad I quite agree...but sadly you are just going to have to assume everyone you deal with is going to try and do you over. It doesn't mean you have to treat them that way, just that you have to have processes in place to prevent it. FWIW, if everything is on paper then personally, I'd be happier that way as verbal communication is so often open to confusion and misunderstanding. It needn't be confrontational at all, just clear and unambiguous. Hope for the best, expect the worst, avoid disappointment. :)
there are no "gentlemens agreements" in business! That is why there are contracts!! In order to sue for more than the value of the work, he is going to have to prove that your work caused him loss or damage to the value of! It is no good to allege it happened. I think he is hoping you bottle out and pay him. Do not! And always always collect your debts! This way you get a name in the industry for collecting your debts, and chancers like this guy will not come along and try to take the piss! Phil
Unfortunately we live in a world today where we need to fire some of the customers. You're not alone, all mechanics, shops, trades have to put up with this in the modern world.. The trick is to be able to spot this sort as early as you can, keep your shields up, and send them on their way. Also beware of the con man who will play you honestly on smaller deals building your confidence in them leading you toward some larger deal where they end up stiffing you.
The simplest measure, as others have suggested is to have a menu of cost and service. If you post your rates and work simply walking on the premises is a legal agreement to what is being offered
If what you are saying is correct your "customer" is committing fraud - maybe even extortion (as threating unwarranted legal action). So go down to your local police station and swear out a criminal complaint. Even though the local police will not want to do anything push it - they actually have an obligation to do something. And it is NOT a civil case - which is what they will try and tell you.
Do you contact fellow engine rebuilders in your area about problen people/threives. If another shop gets burnt by somebody like this.....I would want to get a heads up on them, because you know they cant shop where they shit anymore !
Lee. Stop talking thru UA-cam when you have a potential legal case against you. Lawyers for the claimant can pick out facts which may go against you and lead to costing you money. If a legal case has passed, then if you wish, summarise the result over the channel if you win but not if you lose.
You can’t half fix anything, you wouldn’t half machine something and send it out would you, same thing, you agree to rebuild a gearbox professionally with warranty or you don’t touch it, I sympathise with you and realise you were trying to get a customer out of trouble but their customers not your friends 👍
Lee... if I were you I would not do rants like this if you're on the cusp of being sued by somebody. The bottom line is that you do not want to go to court and you do want this to either go away or be settled amicably. Now put yourself in this guy's shoes for a moment [it doesn't matter who's right or wrong]. If he watches this video he will be incandescent and will be in no mind to do anything other than take you to the cleaners ! This may be good youTube entertainment but it isn't good business... unless you enjoy filling the coffers of solicitors.
strip and re-assemble is not the same as rebuild ! i mean it is not that hard to work out ? your always having problems = communicate better ! rebuild and restoration is not the same either ? are you serious ! i would not come to you guy`s !
Many years ago when running a workshop I had someone ring up and say "my name is (so quick I couldn't understand it) and I'm taking you to court". My response was "no problem, I'll see you there", and then I hung up on him. He called back, and asked if I wanted to know what it was about. I said no, when the paperwork turns up, I'll find out everything that I need to, and hung up. He called back again, completely off balance, because he wasn't expecting my response. Turned out he was a lawyer, who had taken his vehicle to another workshop, who had brought it to us because they couldn't fix it, and then blamed us for something that they had stuffed up. Anyway, the end result was that once I told him that I would see him in court, and then both him, and his workshop as well for making intentionally false and misleading statements about our business, everything went quiet. Never heard anything again. In this particular business, every client record had a history file attached to it. Every phone conversation was summarised in that file with a date and time stamp next to it. On a couple of other occasions, those records were invaluable. They are accepted in court as true records of a conversation.
Definitely need to record phone calls on the business line if your using your personal line you can download an app to record your phone calls on your mobile but like I said previously you need to email confirmation on every job you do aswell, phone and agree with the customer but tell them the job won't commence until you have email confirmation.
If it comes to proving if this is the same gearbox, the replaced selector will possibly stand out as being less than 40 years old - if you can get your hands on it, that is.
Well the pictures should show the replaced shift selector you replaced. It should have easily identifiable wear patterns that are different from the rest of the 40 year old parts
And unfortunately I live in the United States and laws are different but, the burden of proof that is the gearbox which you worked on is the only part that you have to defend. And upon your deposition to the courts, you only need to verify that this gearbox is in fact the one you inspected and replaced the shift part on. And when you give your side of all the interactions and transactions with that customer, please keep it detailed, straight forward and simple. Do Not give any more than that. No feelings about what happened or last minute bargaining to minimize the situation or settle it before you go to court. That will imply guilt. On the other side of this, the customer will have to prove to the magistrate or judge that this is the exact same gearbox that he received from your shop. That it has not been tampered with internally and, only been installed and removed. Plus he has to explain how within 40 miles, as he has claimed it has only traveled. Why it is the condition that it is being presented as to another facility and not to you. Thank you for hopefully reading this completely and I hope that it will be helpful advice. Even if you have already thought of this or been told the same thing from someone else. It’s because I have had the same situation before and I respect you, your shop and your channel. Good luck and keep posting these wonderful videos
Hi mate. I`m afraid I agree. Get everything agreed on email before you do any work. Unless of course you know and trust the customer. Its the way of the world. sadly. Even in industry I`ve had situations where even people I`ve known for years have stabbed me just to get a medal or get them out of a mistake they've made. People mate. Watch ya back.
I had a neighbor try to get me for a transmission after I replaced her alternator. Her 7 year old said I was doing burnouts in front of the house with it. I asked here where the tire marks were. That was the last I heard of it. Labor plus gasket kit. No new hard parts. General mechanical condition would be identical when leaving as it was on arrival, with the exception of cleanliness. Not responsible for customers choice of lubricant, regardless of alleged recommendation, ("Modern" does not constitute nor imply "correct") or whether customer even filled it with ANYthing prior to use.
If the toe rag was reluctant to cough up £50 for a gasket set then he isn’t going to cough up a few grand up front to a solicitor. I would doubt the authenticity of the independent engineer’s report too.
Issac is doing well keep on mentoring him. Surprised at how well he's doing vid's and he's really gotten good at doing the job. As for the nasty bit, know you've just started recording everything and he's trying to slip in obviously he's watching your channel and trying to slip in below the wire. Your business is straight up and honest so people taking advantage of it will appear. I'fve watched for awhile and all you've been doing is getting better, business sucks but that's how you earn your living along with great support staff. The Cr*p will not stop[ but if you keep recording (make sure your answering machine and phone state's your recording for training purposes) things will be easier to solve. Love watching as I'm now to old to lift anywhere the weights you do and being out of doing 'engine mod's' I really enjoy watching people that are really good at their work plus really good tips. Don't stop from a few bad eggs (or apples if you remember the song) just keep being the professionals you are. Merry Xmas and a better new year form New Zealand. Cheer's all.
About 7 years ago I had a wicked deal, firm of gearbox recon folks over in Southampton had a Reliant Rialto gearbox in on the shelf they recon'd and the muppet refused to pay so they just kept it, I got it at a very very good price as my gearbox grenaded because of the clutch and I was head in hands and a mate said give these chaps a call and I was happy as anything getting a full recon box that tonite I was flying down the A303 70ish and the box has been abs rock solid. Now my car is in my go to garage for its mot and yearly service, they are like yourself and I knows not to take the piss and they have been solid all the way.
I work in a different environment, everything is written down and signed for. Photos taken where needed and stored just in case. If people refuse to deal with you, then you know they would have been the issue. Or as soon as their solicitor contacts you, send over the pack and that hopefully will be the last you hear of it. Its not really a ball ache, you get used to it quickly. Don't put anything in any car until all I's have been dotted etc. Love the engineering in this channel. Happy Chrimbo
It’s customary / common practice to discuss repair options with customers over the phone or in person. Suggestion: in the future whoever’s talks to the customer should write down a brief summary of the discussion with the customer and slide it into the job folder. It’s also recommended that you follow up these conversations with an email, text, or mailed letter summarizing what was discussed and what will be done by the shop. You don’t have to immediately write these things down although that’s the best practice. You could write down anything you remember later on and put those notes in the job packet too. I know it’s been suggested before but take lots of picture & save them on your hard drive by customer name, date or job #. Those pictures can be a huge help when a customer starts slinging accusations! That said; even if you don’t have ‘documented evidence’ and its “your word against theirs” that doesn’t mean you would automatically lose in court. Go back and organize your notes in writing and prepare to present your position in a detailed sequence.
Whether you are right or wrong you really need to stop giving away your defence to everyone including the disgruntled customer ,you are your own worst enemy.
Yes they make a good point Lee. In future if you see the words "going to court" in a complaint letter tell us about it AFTER the matter has been settled not before. It will be just as interesting to know about it after the fact.
I'd let it go to court Lee as you have the invoices for the work that you did and why would he have paid for second one if it was your fault it'll be him that will be out of pocket paying the court costs.
Love your videos and love your honesty Lee. But yes it's a sad world that we live in nowadays. Fingers crossed you'll win this case. The customer does sounds like a right dickhead though 😏😏
Based on what you said, I think this dude may well get his pound of flesh, just the fact that you looked at the gearbox I would think makes you liable?. Let's hope he sees this video and withdraws his claim. So sorry that outfits like yours are forced to change their work culture because dishonest people spoil it for everyone else.
[ just the fact that you looked at the gearbox I would think makes you liable?] Absolutely not, unless there was an agreement of which proof can be produced in court.
@@stephensaines7100 I hope the evidence is there but not from what I can glean from the video, a lot of references to a gentleman's agreement lead me to think otherwise.
Can you record phone calls. Notify up front that calls are recorded. Could solve that issue. Photo evidence saved on a computer to back up parts condition, could be admissible in court. Of course then you get the numbnutz that say "that is not my parts". These days you need all the bandaids on your backside you can to combat the scammers. Seems you will not be doing work for that bloke any more. Guys like that eventually run out of people to deal with. You and the lads have a good day, and Merry Christmas. None of that Happy Holidays crapola the wokie tokies like to use for me. FYI, a couple of nights below -30°c and tonight may be -43°C. Welcome to Canada, eh.
Well I could write you an engineer's report! as I've got a degree in Automotive Engineering - but I'm not a chartered engineer. You need to check out his engineers qualifications.
Hello Lee, Great vlog....WELCOME to 2022, l have been directly involved with the motor trade since the mid 80's. This is the way it is now with 75% of customers....just look at how you have been shafted with customers loading up & driving off without paying☹.... This gearbox bloke is a complete 'BELLEND'👍(hope he is reading this)....a total liar & professional 'CHARLATAN'... Check through the previous comments on this, as you did the original gearbox rebuild & he paid the invoice in full with no query, any subsequent warranty issues with this job have to be taken up with you FIRST. You have to be given the first attempt to rectify any issues period. Check this out with your solicitor (good & bad solicitors too Lee!) Life is full of wasters like this, just trying to trip you up all the time...🤔....
A genuine professional 'independent witness' would actually not want to give evidence in court if they were gilding the lilly. I would be questioning their authenticity and impartiality. That said even in the criminal world if you are paying money you can find an independent witness who will support your argument. The trick is to be able to rubbish their argument. This guy is playing a game of brinkmanship keep pushing towards a court appearance. Quick search. Quaife do a Clubman 5 speed (slightly uprated) box for £1490.00 (Not sure about the VAT). Xchange unit required. Update - This months Practical Classices Tempting Treats feature. Burton Powere are now doing a 5 speed Type 9 at £1416 (Again no mention of VAT) No Xchange unit required,
I agree with Harold 6863, it IS getting worse ( recently retired after being in the building industry for almost 50 years ) for the last 22 I was doing house inspections, in those 22 years I had about 5 complaints to our (NSW Australia ) " consumer " body, all bar one were from women ( and he may as well as have been !! ) the last one was what made me retire ( was going to anyway - she just helped push me to do it ) None of them wanted to discuss what they thought was a problem before running off to the consumer body. And, of course the wicked evil builder was always at fault. So my advice would be to ANYONE in a small self-owned business is don't do anything by word of mouth and to document all dealings you have with the general public, in over 13000 inspections, like I said I had 5 complaints but those 5 cruelled it for me .
Sounds like the guy wanted a re-manufactured gearbox not a refurbished gearbox. They are different legally, refurbished is a functional item, re-manufactured is meeting original specs apart from appearance (that newly remanufactured).
Phone Calls are fine , But , RECORD THEM . And then , say to the Customer , I need the Details we discussed here IN AN E-mail before I can proceed . Gentlemen's Agreements are just so much " Hot Air " these days , unfortunately .
Maybe it would be a good idea to get yourself a special stamp and stamp all parts of your build. If an engine comes back to you, you would know it was your build. Just a thought,
We had a similar customer at a bicycle store I worked at regarding an elctric bicycle. In the end the store decided to just pay the guy to get rid of him. And the bike got scrapped even though it was perfectly repairable.
Have your solicitor deal with him (counter-sue) You will win. he has no paper saying recon gearbox. I assume your paperwork says just a rebuild ie clean and reassemble NO PARTS hard to say it's even the same gearbox
This individual would be classified as an "Oxygen Bandit". He is obviously playing a game. Throughout our decades of business we have only had a few that went down a very dark hole. We prevailed in all issues. We could invest hours discussing those clients. They contribute less than 1% of our client base. They take up an enormous amount of time, energy, and resources. Address the issue head on. It may take a court ruling to resolve the issue. Courts are not always right. Sometimes judges have to idea of the intricacies of the issues at hand. That client is 1 in 500. A hemorrhoid of life. Paul and Issac handled their bits with professionalism. Great job. Lee......get better soon. Try to work through the stress of this turd. Flush him.
Sounds like the guy is going under financially and he's trying it on with you for a couple of grand - on a 300 quid job! Blimey Charlie! Why stop there? Why not 3 and half grand?
I hardly know the system that exists to a "bottom feeder, relentless to graft" Now, amplified by the lawyer. But, I offer this. The true sense of a Brit workman, craftsman...journeyman...exists to where lathe, machine tools, iron and steel components.....and yes aircraft exist to where the absolute best precision, absolute best method and regard to task is the chief, effortless fundamental to work flow. For instance, stand best to that tradesman, that service ....that component work as observant to any flaw....rejecting such lesser product.....every job, every day. Where you get to say this, hence it becomes what is component belief to the observer. And yes, some lesser soul might win, malfeasance as false documents, false statements...might appear. But right in the statement, you get to deliver is the reach for quality everyone can believe. That best...kind place as hands, skills forge product. Where you get to say such words, mean that truth to any observer...... well, after that, accept any outcome and simply move on. Knowing, lesser cunning rabble exist, marginal lawyers feed on such tripe. Life has such sidebar that to such craftsman, truly mean nothing and are forgotten at once, as to the black cut, the slag heap. Why would I know? Well, because I own a South Bend model 5 lathe of 1935 production. At my bench, it can execute a fair precision even after 88 years. And, my hands at that movement, will reject any substandard workpiece as flawed. As ingrained as looking to morning weather...noon break sky. Plain, simple truth you see. What you get to say and hence turn to tommorrows page.. Understanding the false soliciters paper, intention as fit only to wrap fish. Over due, yess to a scuttle. M>
99% of these cases are the bluff act and don’t make it to court. They hope to scare you and settle out of court. Call their bluff and proceed to court and the fold and walk away. Unfortunately Im talking from experience.
Not sure if this may help future customer complaints, but I just recently completed 22 years of working for an Audi dealership, and we put a lot of importance on something calld AudiCam. Every technician in the workshop had access to an Ipod and we video reported all our findings, uploaded and sent video to customer. Yes it was time consuming, as it was mandatory procedure on every vehicle entering the workshop, but the customers loved it, and it was video evidence. Food for thought maybe.
Back in the nineties when I was doing engine and headwork I used an electric engraver to put my name and the date on anything I worked on. People still tried it on,until I pointed to the markings
The NHS have a saying. If it isn't written down it never happened. What they mean is that you should record everything you do or say. Any phone conversations I have with customers regarding work are confirmed by email whether they ask for it or not (including verbal agreements to proceed). Even if it relates to issues found during the job. Unless they specifically reply, it doesn't matter if they later say they didn't agree with what is written. The fact is you have a record and they don't.
Just tell him to bring it on I’ll see you in court what do you expect for £300 if they’ve quoted 2 1/2 thousand pound to rebuild it and you only charged in 300 you couldn’t have done much to the gearbox for that apart from pull it apart inspect and put it back together
When in history, was it that you could trust every customer? Back in the seventies, when I was going to collage, day release, we did running your own motor trade business. The educator/Teacher ask the class "what do you customers want more than anything" everyone replied "Something for nothing". Another day he actually said "the customer is always right" which garnered the reply bollocks. Customers have always been untrustworthy. I've been lied about accused of damaging a customers car, we actually had video of this twat reversing his car into a concrete post, then claimed he had seen me do the damage as he arrived to collect his car. So glad I'm retired now.
Enjoy the channel and the different variety of builds / rebuilds. Can't for the life of me though understand why you report on ongoing warranty claims . Would leave all these dealings strictly between you and the customer, rather than at times asking for comments / advice on ongoing litigious matters from unqualified people. If you want legal advice go see a good lawyer and leave it at that. Just making videos about your ongoing builds is more than good enough to keep the channel very interesting. Keep up the good work.
My friend had a garace in seventies, he overhauled a Vauxhall engine to the customer. While after the the driveshaft gros joint bearing broke and customer claim that it was becaused by that engine overhaul because it happened AFTER the engine overhaul. Garage owners must take all kind of crap before they realise to stop doing work for these idiots.
Realistically the customer signed off on the gearbox to get the job done & agreed to the terms as he paid the invoice. What the customer appears not to realize is your vids of engine builds shows the quality of workmanship. Question i have did he misdiagnose what was making a noise, was it the g/box or most likely something else. Did it turn out that it wasn't the gearbox ; after all you didn't get to test drive before he took the gearbox out or when he pit it back in. Threats of legal action mean nothing when it ain't backed up with actual action. Any claims of expenses by him can be counter claimed by yours. If he expects a windfall he's sadly mistaken. Courts by & large are blind meaning they deal in law & facts not what somebody thinks should happen. He better have his ducks in a row
Talking OVER! His word your word… His fist your fists but your fists have brass knuckles. Sort this out NOW get yourself round there and put an end to this and him. His next dispute should be with a plastic surgeon and a world class dentist about if they put his face back together the way he wanted!
I’m sorry, these things do tend to get a little emotional and they aren’t pleasant when the letters start coming in. Having listened to your story you may well have an issue if for no other reason than the advice you initially gave. It is immaterial if money changes hands when advice is given but you freely admitted at the start that you weren’t an expert, and that is now irrefutable thanks to UA-cam. His solicitor, I suspect, will go down that route ie, the advice given was incorrect, though well intentioned, and work carried out was not to a satisfactory standard, even though there isn’t a subscriber out there who believes it. Loss wise, he can prove loss through the repair, the expert report and maybe some time. I did smile when you stated about “Gentleman’s agreement”. and “The way the worlds gone” Unfortunately it’s always been that way, I’ve just worked out I’ve been in business for 44 years and take it from me there’s always another one out there. Strong, fair T’s&C’s allow gentleman’s agreements and protect longstanding relationships because all parties know where they stand.
It's a sad world I'm afraid, can't trust anyone! Best way in future is to do what my doctor serjury does,recorded message given out before phone answered to the effect that all calls are recorded for training and reference purposes! That's a legal requirement in UK to inform caller there been recorded! That l believe will help you a great deal, stop time/Money waisted litigation! Happy healthy and prosperous New year to you all!!
Call the customer, recorded line and try and talk things out, he may slip up while on the phone, try and ask why he is trying to defraud (or similar) you. With the correspondance you can show that his legal correspondance is in direct conflict with the invoice which are both admissible as evidence, add a reminder Fraud is a criminal offence as defined by the Fraud Act 2006.
Wouldn't help him again, he'll fall flat on his face sooner rather then later. Can you show how you balance engine components, piston, shanks, flywheels, clutch and etc. Thanks
Yeah, get it all together and go down there and see what the judge says. A 2k claim isn't going to be too expensive if you lose. Costs are capped. Just get a solicitor to write your defense and appear as a litigant in person. These County Court judges are clever. They'll know if anyone is bullshitting and what will be, will be.
We have to mark every recycled part we sell. Too many people try to bring back the buggered old parts they have just replaced for refunds. It’s just how it is now.
All this attitudes nowadays comes from the American litigation cancer. Those Septics are pathetic and lower than a worms grave because the default setting is "I'm gonna sue you pal" if anything goes wrong. It seems the UK has caught that cancer too.
If I were you, I would relish your day in court. This guy has to prove you are at fault, or show a reasonable case against you. I wouldn't continue to argue the odd via lawyers - simply proceed to court and answer the case against you. Bearing in mind your are an expert and actually did the work yourself, there will be no "nudge nudge wink wink."
Make sure this gearbox guy is on the shit list in future. No more work from him! Lots of spivs in the UK from my own experiences there. I would be making sure he does not try and get work done by using a third party too. You do not need this type of customer at all, you clearly have enough work in the shop already.
with the gear box I'd call his bluff, tell him to F off, and refuse to do anything else for him, give in to him now and he will be doing it all the time, sometimes you just have to stand your ground on principal, if it backfires you weren't going to win anyway, so why make it easy for him,
Just another person who wants something for nothing. Be interesting to see if he can prove your alleged wrongdoing. I'd take legal advice and see what your rep says. If he does get money out of you I would ban him as a customer. No jobs at all whatsoever for him to come through the shop. Life is too short to deal with dishonest people like that so I wouldn't entertain any more work of his. You are right....dishonesty is becoming the norm and its very sad.
YEAH IT'S SHOCKING. DON'T FORGET THAT HE WILL HAVE TO PRODUCE HIS EVIDENTAL DOCUMENTS UNDER DISCOVERY RULES. I WONDER IF HE HAS GOT THE FREE LEGAL AID (CIVIL)???
An "independent engineer" is a professional fully qualified and document person who both parties agree to. Otherwise he could be a weekend lock up expert. No good turn goes unpunished
You might ask your solicitor to investigate that person's overall financial situation; if he is having financial issues - this could show that he is attempting to obtain monies by deception, or by fraudulent means.
It is all about the verbal contract isn't it? Did your Dr say it was a bacterial infection and prescribed antibiotics as the possible benefits of that would outweigh the potential risk, or did they say I don't know if it is bacterial or viral and antibiotics may or may not make a difference and the risks of harm are low? Or did you accept the explanation and opted for antibiotics so your choice? oh, sorry you are talking about the gearbox.
Lee, if by any chance that case does go to court, make sure you publish the proceedings notification on UA-cam so we can all see who it is…this would be in the public domain, typically published by the court themselves.
Yes, we need to know who this chancer is, in case he comes calling round our way.
CALL HIS BLUFF . YOU HAVE PROOF ENUF TO WIN .
You can still do the phone chat, but take notes and read back. Then both agree then set it out in writing and get it confirmed. It’s a bit of a pain but you have to.
He can only claim the money he paid you and consequential damages such as installation costs. He can't claim a new box unless your work caused the damage.
He's trying it on...just let your solicitor know that you are not going to pay this bloke and see him in court.. You've been upfront and got nothing to hide so let him waste his money...
I don't get the gearbox job at all.
So you didn't put new bearings in or gear sets, just a gasket set?
How is cleaning it up and fresh oil going to cure anything?!!
I would have insisted on new main shaft bearings at the very least as a process of elimination.
We do EVERYTHING via email.
I've never liked phone calls or bits of paper, they get lost and forgotten.
Email is absolutely gospel as it's date stamped and searchable.
As you are obviously so busy,
you don't need customers like that anyway. It's his loss, don't deal with him again.
i was in the trade for a very long time and have way less years ahead than behind and still to this day i get shocked by the actions of morally bankrupt people, there are opportunists everywhere so sadly you have to protect yourselves by any means necessary, record, film and photograph everything.
I personally left the mechanic world after a decade of being self employed, as it was near impossible to get people to just pay their bill. Everyone wants money off, even if you are only making £20 after parts. You end up spending more time chasing bills than working on jobs sometimes. I've had a Suzuki Vitara lying in the yard for about 7 years, as after what was weeks of chassis welding, patching and panel work to get it up to standard, the cheapskate tried to get away with it as "a favour" It can rot as far as I'm concerned, then he'll be out the cost of the entire jeep never mind the £400 for the job. People are cheap. Full stop.
100%
Excellent footage from Isaac and Paul! And their commentary! More please...
Don't be so scared of what the court might rule, you might be very surprised. I would counsel that you present your case in a more polished, unemotional way. You have a lot of information that needs to be presented well. It might help to practice the spiel, write it down to review with yourself, and then have it on hand mentally to deliver it smoothly and as concisely as you can. Don't ramble.
Welcome the court case, and welcome it with confidence.
That's what he has a solicitor for
@@samrodian919 If you know all the facts and can speak well it's best to speak for yourself, like that you can answer all the questions and argue with the other guys brief who won't know all the details and win the judge over, been there done that!
And if there's anythings they didn't bill him for, now's the time to send him a big stack of bills for every single minuscule item that you could conceivably bill him for.
@@rotax636nut5 yes I agree with you, sorry I didn't make myself clear. I meant that his solicitor should sort and set out the facts in the way the court would want them presented. So that Lee can speak for himself. Not to actually speak for Lee.
It might be a good idea to punchmark every engine and box you rebuild so you know that you are not being presented with a so called warranty claim that is actually NOT the one you rebuilt! Use something that cannot be easily reproduced, put it somewhere out of the way and don't tell the customer that you have marked it!
Phil
Might be better to use smartwater...not sure if would last though..
Put your own serial number on each piece of work and keep a logbook of every number, record the date, type, OE serial number, work done and so on, I deal with several engineering companies who do it this way and it really works
I always left a mark inside every job i ever did. My stamped initials in certain locations, formally it was just my way of signing off that the job was mine and I was proud of my work and willing to put my name on it. I never had to use them as proof, but in my later years as a mechanic they did become a sign of proof to tell me if the job was mine or not if i ever needed it as more of these opportunists and con artists came out of the woodwork.
Remember a bloke who brought in a classic. We did a job and on pickup he pointed out his small hubcaps were gone on his Holden and tried to force us to replace them, they are bloody expensive at about $1500 for 4 of them.
We just laughed at him and pointed out they were never there when he brought the car in. I did notice the caps were missing and thinking it was a shame.
I loved my Valiants, colleague loved his Nissans and the boss loved his Fords. None of us would touch or even consider looking at a Holden let alone could be bothered trying to sell such parts for a Holden since none of us had sources for them.
He did take us to court over them and we were forced to pay for 4 new caps. The only ones we could find, since they were fairly rare, were really rough and dinted and scratched badly. Either way he pretty much lost out and there was nothing the courts could do about it. We also blacklisted him and spread the word to all the other local businesses that he was scamming people.
Found a couple others that he had also did it to, but overall he would have to go to some rural car mechanic out in the sticks to find someone who would touch his car ever again.
Don't worry mate, let him take that one to court, he has no paper that states you should renovate the gearbox, it won't hold in court, you can't lose that one, they know those kinds of people who think they can play the system they meet them all the time, they can see when things not add up, I don't think it is going to court at all they will not allow it when he has no paper that state you had an agreement to renovate the gearbox, send him a letter that he has to take you to court, and don't talk to him on the phone all is going on paper from here on.
You have got the invoice for repair of the damaged selecter shaft, Take the guy to court you have evidence of work you did he hasn't got any evidence.
Independent engineers report.
Means nothing.
He could have gone to a scrapyard and a knackered box and got a bloke to do a report.
Quite agree, you have invoices for work done he has no proof of requested work, recommendations or that the gearbox he had assessed was the same box. Surely burden of proof is on him?
Obviously as you said you took on that Job to carry out an partial stripping of the box so as to to carry out a detailed physical Inspection without a total tear down so as to recommend a course of action for the client, after which you re assembled with new gaskets and handed same back to him an old forty year old gearbox with an already existing whine, giving your assessment of what his options were in the interim which were basically live with same, or as you said that maybe with a more modern yet backwards compatible premium Gear Oil might possible have some effect, if he was personally willing to take that option, that being up to himself...He paid the Invoice, End of Story and also NO Warranty was ever given or even implied as you didn't do a REBUILD on same just a 'Inspection' and Report back to him as requested and your findings on this over forty year old Gearbox...Thus Not a REPAIR... you're well well covered and he's just trying to wear you down as many are saying ... Enjoy your New Year... Great Uploads over the past Year...
He's always not honouring warranties.
Most folk don't have to use it.
But they don't expect the weaseling that goes on here, should they need to claim.
It isn't a coincidence, that the word is "honouring" a warranty.
?
I live in the USA and am having a Ford 390 block built up into a 445 stroker engine. After paying the local shop to clean and inspect the block and knowing it was rebuildable, and wasn't cracked, we discussed the project and the shop then put together a written quote. With the written quote in hand I moved forward. As there is a lot of parts needed (new crank, rods, pistons, heads, intake, carb, distributor, and on and on) only the block is original, I had to pay for the parts up front, and they are coming in. Part of the quote is the labor which is due once the engine is done. I would suggest in all cases to put everything in writing to protect yourself mainly but technically so the customer has a written record as well. Sad that today things are as they are but when it comes down to it you have to protect yourself. Absolutely never take in any work from that guy again, and even put the word out to any other shop you might have a relationship with to stay away from that guy.
100%Agree with you Lee can't trust anybody these days it's a very sad state of affairs
I disagree, and quite vehemently. One *always* had to be careful to make sure the agreement is understood, and committed to a medium. Memory and 'he says she says' has never worked in business and law. A verbal agreement is only as good as having a witness. And that has always been the case.
Not everyone is like this but cost of running a business and just cost of living now, no one can soak up the 1in 100 that dick you over or drag their feet.
Once word gets around about what this character is trying on he may find it very difficult to get any work done.
keep it with the solicitor. it's going to cost the customer more than the cost of the gearbox to have his day in court. You have an invoice for the work so you are better covered legally than the customer right now. It isn't strong evidence but it is evidence he signed off on the work done and when. The fact he's come back later to dispute things puts him at a disadvantage.
It's all the evidence there is! And what does the guy want? All he is 'entitled' to would be a gearbox clean + rebuild which he would still have to pay for!
These people are everywhere. We were working on land owned by a foreign woman. We were hand digging a 1m squared by 800mm deep hole on a utility, about 30m from her property. A couple of weeks after we had finished and left site, we received a letter from her solicitor accusing us of causing subsidence and damage to her house to the value of £250k. When I phoned her for an explanation she was very angry and said respond to the solicitor. I knew she was up to something so I googled her to find her husband had been arrested in her homeland and had had a £250k bail put on his head. I sent this information to her solicitor and said no way a small hand dug hole would cause this damage and that I'd see them in court. Never heard from them or her again. Subsequently worked for one of her neighbours and they said she had tried suing the whole street for various things down the years! Some bloody chancers out there unfortunately.
Lee, just had a thought and I feel you should consider this as well.
I think this customer has set you up.
He said he wanted a gearbox looked at because it was noisy. You helped him with that, took it apart, inspected it, reassembled it and told him it looked pretty good.
He did not want to spend any money on it, not even for gaskets.
Now he supplies pictures of a gearbox that does not resemble the one you looked in any way.
He planned doing the whole switch a roo thing before he even came to your shop. That was the plan, to get you to do some minor work, so the item has been through your hands with little expense to himself and he can then blame you for the destruction of the ring in gearbox.
If he is mechanically clueless, who is removing these gearboxes from the car?
A mechanics shop?
A transmission shop?
Who is this so called "engineer" or "expert" that wrote a report?
Dig deeper into this.
There is more to this than just getting you to pay for his f#@kup of hammering a shaft into the gearbox.
This is a planned and deliberate fraud.
Let him know you will subpoena his bank records.
You will be able to see what parts he has bought and who from and what workshops he has been to.
You can contact them and see what this fellow has been up to.
Yes. Yes, yes
Lee you have a vid of when he tried to install the gear box. In doing so he used a hammer on the shift shaft. Just take that to your solicitor & let them present it. You only took the gear box apart, inspected it & put it back together.
This is no set-up. The is just a guy who is very opinionated, not the brightest, and has put two and two together and got five. He believes the gearbox was perfect when it left Barum and now there is a problem so Barum must have done something. It maybe that as simple as the customer is confused, or even someone else has swapped it over with or without his knowledge. Far more likely thoughtless than cunning.
@@serialcoins odd how this guy didn't want to spend money for anything, not even gaskets, but he is ok with spending thousands on a solicitor. He could have likely bought a new or reconditioned gearbox for what he has so far spent on "lawyering up".
A good solicitor would have counceled him on whether it could possibly have been his own fault, to eliminate the possibility of legal action he may loose.
This matter will go to court as this was his plan all along.
Either way Barum need to prepare themselves. Realising there is malice involved is a good way to steel yourself.
@@Hydrogenblonde This unwillingness to spend any money, unwillingness to have a professional gearbox shop take a look at it, should be the angle of attack Barum go on. It may just be a money claim which will cost £100, or a few solicitor's letters, which would cost £30 a time. But this guy has to bring proof to the court, that Barum were negligent. People can make as many claims as they want, the the court only accept proof. I've had to sue a couple of my customers. The only reason I could do this was because I had proof, many provided by my customers tying themselves in knots.
I love your videos keep up the good work. I'm self employed and have found myself shying away from the general public because of this rubbish. Every stage of my business dealings are documented in email, phone conversations are backed up by an email acknowledgement. I also find this way helps weed out the unscrupulous as they can see where this leads.
With respect to the gearbox it sounds like there's no way to prove either argument beyond reasonable doubt so surely this goes nowhere.
I don't know where this guy thinks you're responsible for over $2000. He's bloody daft and is a scammer trying to strong-arm you. I'd fight to the end and sue him.
Court case it is then
If I remember correctly, you had a video of this gearbox with visual evidence of the internals as presented. Take this chancer to arbitration.
Yes I seem to remember Lee showing it in a video.
Come on Lee look out the footage and any not put in the video if you didn't delete it
Interesting that you rely on plastigauge to get bearing clearences not measurements
Yes you can do that by measuring the crankshaft and putting bearings in a rod,torquing it to spec and use an internal micrometer of some sort and subtract the crank dimension from the rod. You will then get the clearance between the two but using an industry standard tool like plastigague is far far quicker and extremely accurate. No brainier really
An old saying one of the best engine builders I have know used to say:All racing engines built by everyone are hand grenades with the pin pulled-the trick is to get them back to put the pin back in before they let go.
Same holds true for every engine.
I like that one! Never heard it before lol
@@samrodian919 Ditto
I have 46 years in the trade, it’s only the past few years it’s become like this. There were always the odd one would try it on but nowadays it’s so common. It hurts when you are being open and honest. The more you try and help the worst it gets. We use photos, videos, e mail everything for evidence, and voice safe everything. If they know you are recording they will be aware you are on your guard. It’s a sad state of affairs. Great video please keep them coming.
Yes, I'm afraid you need everything written down in writing and plenty of photos of the job. A pain, but it has saved me far more than the time it takes.
I'm mostly impressed by the fact you appear to have managed to get a doctors appointment in less than 3 months......
Re the gearbox, yes, it is sad I quite agree...but sadly you are just going to have to assume everyone you deal with is going to try and do you over. It doesn't mean you have to treat them that way, just that you have to have processes in place to prevent it. FWIW, if everything is on paper then personally, I'd be happier that way as verbal communication is so often open to confusion and misunderstanding. It needn't be confrontational at all, just clear and unambiguous.
Hope for the best, expect the worst, avoid disappointment. :)
Totally agree, doctors are like unicorns talked about but never seen..................
Or if you agree something verbally confirm it by email/letter.
there are no "gentlemens agreements" in business! That is why there are contracts!! In order to sue for more than the value of the work, he is going to have to prove that your work caused him loss or damage to the value of! It is no good to allege it happened. I think he is hoping you bottle out and pay him. Do not! And always always collect your debts! This way you get a name in the industry for collecting your debts, and chancers like this guy will not come along and try to take the piss!
Phil
Unfortunately we live in a world today where we need to fire some of the customers. You're not alone, all mechanics, shops, trades have to put up with this in the modern world.. The trick is to be able to spot this sort as early as you can, keep your shields up, and send them on their way. Also beware of the con man who will play you honestly on smaller deals building your confidence in them leading you toward some larger deal where they end up stiffing you.
The simplest measure, as others have suggested is to have a menu of cost and service. If you post your rates and work simply walking on the premises is a legal agreement to what is being offered
Well put
Agree, i run my own shop and after many years you do know the warning signs however thw odd one still slips through the net
If what you are saying is correct your "customer" is committing fraud - maybe even extortion (as threating unwarranted legal action). So go down to your local police station and swear out a criminal complaint. Even though the local police will not want to do anything push it - they actually have an obligation to do something. And it is NOT a civil case - which is what they will try and tell you.
Do you contact fellow engine rebuilders in your area about problen people/threives. If another shop gets burnt by somebody like this.....I would want to get a heads up on them, because you know they cant shop where they shit anymore !
Lee. Stop talking thru UA-cam when you have a potential legal case against you. Lawyers for the claimant can pick out facts which may go against you and lead to costing you money. If a legal case has passed, then if you wish, summarise the result over the channel if you win but not if you lose.
You can’t half fix anything, you wouldn’t half machine something and send it out would you, same thing, you agree to rebuild a gearbox professionally with warranty or you don’t touch it, I sympathise with you and realise you were trying to get a customer out of trouble but their customers not your friends 👍
Lee... if I were you I would not do rants like this if you're on the cusp of being sued by somebody. The bottom line is that you do not want to go to court and you do want this to either go away or be settled amicably. Now put yourself in this guy's shoes for a moment [it doesn't matter who's right or wrong]. If he watches this video he will be incandescent and will be in no mind to do anything other than take you to the cleaners ! This may be good youTube entertainment but it isn't good business... unless you enjoy filling the coffers of solicitors.
strip and re-assemble is not the same as rebuild ! i mean it is not that hard to work out ? your always having problems = communicate better ! rebuild and restoration is not the same either ? are you serious ! i would not come to you guy`s !
Many years ago when running a workshop I had someone ring up and say "my name is (so quick I couldn't understand it) and I'm taking you to court". My response was "no problem, I'll see you there", and then I hung up on him. He called back, and asked if I wanted to know what it was about. I said no, when the paperwork turns up, I'll find out everything that I need to, and hung up. He called back again, completely off balance, because he wasn't expecting my response. Turned out he was a lawyer, who had taken his vehicle to another workshop, who had brought it to us because they couldn't fix it, and then blamed us for something that they had stuffed up. Anyway, the end result was that once I told him that I would see him in court, and then both him, and his workshop as well for making intentionally false and misleading statements about our business, everything went quiet. Never heard anything again. In this particular business, every client record had a history file attached to it. Every phone conversation was summarised in that file with a date and time stamp next to it. On a couple of other occasions, those records were invaluable. They are accepted in court as true records of a conversation.
In any correspondence with the guy refer to the gearbox being assessed for condition, not rebuilt .
Definitely need to record phone calls on the business line if your using your personal line you can download an app to record your phone calls on your mobile but like I said previously you need to email confirmation on every job you do aswell, phone and agree with the customer but tell them the job won't commence until you have email confirmation.
If it comes to proving if this is the same gearbox, the replaced selector will possibly stand out as being less than 40 years old - if you can get your hands on it, that is.
If you both didn't have any agreement on paper, email etc then this is going nowhere .... you need proof to take it to court.
I wouldn't be touching gearboxes unless you are a specialist.....
He knows you don’t have any records because you told everyone on this channel!
You just have to change the way you do business,documentation is the way to go.
Well the pictures should show the replaced shift selector you replaced. It should have easily identifiable wear patterns that are different from the rest of the 40 year old parts
And unfortunately I live in the United States and laws are different but, the burden of proof that is the gearbox which you worked on is the only part that you have to defend. And upon your deposition to the courts, you only need to verify that this gearbox is in fact the one you inspected and replaced the shift part on. And when you give your side of all the interactions and transactions with that customer, please keep it detailed, straight forward and simple. Do Not give any more than that. No feelings about what happened or last minute bargaining to minimize the situation or settle it before you go to court. That will imply guilt. On the other side of this, the customer will have to prove to the magistrate or judge that this is the exact same gearbox that he received from your shop. That it has not been tampered with internally and, only been installed and removed. Plus he has to explain how within 40 miles, as he has claimed it has only traveled. Why it is the condition that it is being presented as to another facility and not to you. Thank you for hopefully reading this completely and I hope that it will be helpful advice. Even if you have already thought of this or been told the same thing from someone else. It’s because I have had the same situation before and I respect you, your shop and your channel. Good luck and keep posting these wonderful videos
Gear-box mr.Karen will eventually run out of people to take advantage of , as no one will want to do any for him
Great video 👍 In regards to the gearbox I would argue from the point of the selector repair point and go from their.
I agree conversation and or handshake, used to be A done deal. Not anymore a shame
Hi mate. I`m afraid I agree. Get everything agreed on email before you do any work. Unless of course you know and trust the customer. Its the way of the world. sadly.
Even in industry I`ve had situations where even people I`ve known for years have stabbed me just to get a medal or get them out of a mistake they've made.
People mate. Watch ya back.
I had a neighbor try to get me for a transmission after I replaced her alternator. Her 7 year old said I was doing burnouts in front of the house with it. I asked here where the tire marks were. That was the last I heard of it.
Labor plus gasket kit. No new hard parts. General mechanical condition would be identical when leaving as it was on arrival, with the exception of cleanliness. Not responsible for customers choice of lubricant, regardless of alleged recommendation, ("Modern" does not constitute nor imply "correct") or whether customer even filled it with ANYthing prior to use.
If the toe rag was reluctant to cough up £50 for a gasket set then he isn’t going to cough up a few grand up front to a solicitor. I would doubt the authenticity of the independent engineer’s report too.
check out Black Belt Barrister Audi R8 gearbox dispute, different problem similar situation.
Yes he is Brilliant!
Issac is doing well keep on mentoring him. Surprised at how well he's doing vid's and he's really gotten good at doing the job. As for the nasty bit, know you've just started recording everything and he's trying to slip in obviously he's watching your channel and trying to slip in below the wire. Your business is straight up and honest so people taking advantage of it will appear. I'fve watched for awhile and all you've been doing is getting better, business sucks but that's how you earn your living along with great support staff. The Cr*p will not stop[ but if you keep recording (make sure your answering machine and phone state's your recording for training purposes) things will be easier to solve. Love watching as I'm now to old to lift anywhere the weights you do and being out of doing 'engine mod's' I really enjoy watching people that are really good at their work plus really good tips. Don't stop from a few bad eggs (or apples if you remember the song) just keep being the professionals you are. Merry Xmas and a better new year form New Zealand. Cheer's all.
About 7 years ago I had a wicked deal, firm of gearbox recon folks over in Southampton had a Reliant Rialto gearbox in on the shelf they recon'd and the muppet refused to pay so they just kept it, I got it at a very very good price as my gearbox grenaded because of the clutch and I was head in hands and a mate said give these chaps a call and I was happy as anything getting a full recon box that tonite I was flying down the A303 70ish and the box has been abs rock solid. Now my car is in my go to garage for its mot and yearly service, they are like yourself and I knows not to take the piss and they have been solid all the way.
if he is saying you worked on that gearbox tell him to prove it!!
Early BMC A-series engines, like a Mini 850, gudgeon pins with a bolt. C R A P.
I work in a different environment, everything is written down and signed for. Photos taken where needed and stored just in case. If people refuse to deal with you, then you know they would have been the issue. Or as soon as their solicitor contacts you, send over the pack and that hopefully will be the last you hear of it. Its not really a ball ache, you get used to it quickly. Don't put anything in any car until all I's have been dotted etc. Love the engineering in this channel. Happy Chrimbo
It’s customary / common practice to discuss repair options with customers over the phone or in person. Suggestion: in the future whoever’s talks to the customer should write down a brief summary of the discussion with the customer and slide it into the job folder. It’s also recommended that you follow up these conversations with an email, text, or mailed letter summarizing what was discussed and what will be done by the shop. You don’t have to immediately write these things down although that’s the best practice. You could write down anything you remember later on and put those notes in the job packet too. I know it’s been suggested before but take lots of picture & save them on your hard drive by customer name, date or job #. Those pictures can be a huge help when a customer starts slinging accusations! That said; even if you don’t have ‘documented evidence’ and its “your word against theirs” that doesn’t mean you would automatically lose in court. Go back and organize your notes in writing and prepare to present your position in a detailed sequence.
Whether you are right or wrong you really need to stop giving away your defence to everyone including the disgruntled customer ,you are your own worst enemy.
I thought that as well. He is going to go to court being forwarned of the defense.
Yes they make a good point Lee. In future if you see the words "going to court" in a complaint letter tell us about it AFTER the matter has been settled not before. It will be just as interesting to know about it after the fact.
I'd let it go to court Lee as you have the invoices for the work that you did and why would he have paid for second one if it was your fault it'll be him that will be out of pocket paying the court costs.
Love your videos and love your honesty Lee. But yes it's a sad world that we live in nowadays. Fingers crossed you'll win this case. The customer does sounds like a right dickhead though 😏😏
Based on what you said, I think this dude may well get his pound of flesh, just the fact that you looked at the gearbox I would think makes you liable?. Let's hope he sees this video and withdraws his claim. So sorry that outfits like yours are forced to change their work culture because dishonest people spoil it for everyone else.
[ just the fact that you looked at the gearbox I would think makes you liable?] Absolutely not, unless there was an agreement of which proof can be produced in court.
@@stephensaines7100 I hope the evidence is there but not from what I can glean from the video, a lot of references to a gentleman's agreement lead me to think otherwise.
Can you record phone calls. Notify up front that calls are recorded. Could solve that issue.
Photo evidence saved on a computer to back up parts condition, could be admissible in court. Of course then you get the numbnutz that say "that is not my parts".
These days you need all the bandaids on your backside you can to combat the scammers.
Seems you will not be doing work for that bloke any more. Guys like that eventually run out of people to deal with.
You and the lads have a good day, and Merry Christmas. None of that Happy Holidays crapola the wokie tokies like to use for me.
FYI, a couple of nights below -30°c and tonight may be -43°C. Welcome to Canada, eh.
Well I could write you an engineer's report! as I've got a degree in Automotive Engineering - but I'm not a chartered engineer. You need to check out his engineers qualifications.
Hello Lee, Great vlog....WELCOME to 2022, l have been directly involved with the motor trade since the mid 80's. This is the way it is now with 75% of customers....just look at how you have been shafted with customers loading up & driving off without paying☹.... This gearbox bloke is a complete 'BELLEND'👍(hope he is reading this)....a total liar & professional 'CHARLATAN'... Check through the previous comments on this, as you did the original gearbox rebuild & he paid the invoice in full with no query, any subsequent warranty issues with this job have to be taken up with you FIRST. You have to be given the first attempt to rectify any issues period. Check this out with your solicitor (good & bad solicitors too Lee!) Life is full of wasters like this, just trying to trip you up all the time...🤔....
A genuine professional 'independent witness' would actually not want to give evidence in court if they were gilding the lilly. I would be questioning their authenticity and impartiality. That said even in the criminal world if you are paying money you can find an independent witness who will support your argument. The trick is to be able to rubbish their argument.
This guy is playing a game of brinkmanship keep pushing towards a court appearance.
Quick search. Quaife do a Clubman 5 speed (slightly uprated) box for £1490.00 (Not sure about the VAT). Xchange unit required.
Update - This months Practical Classices Tempting Treats feature. Burton Powere are now doing a 5 speed Type 9 at £1416 (Again no mention of VAT) No Xchange unit required,
I agree with Harold 6863, it IS getting worse ( recently retired after being in the building industry for almost 50 years ) for the last 22 I was doing house inspections, in those 22 years I had about 5 complaints to our (NSW Australia ) " consumer " body, all bar one were from women ( and he may as well as have been !! ) the last one was what made me retire ( was going to anyway - she just helped push me to do it ) None of them wanted to discuss what they thought was a problem before running off to the consumer body. And, of course the wicked evil builder was always at fault.
So my advice would be to ANYONE in a small self-owned business is don't do anything by word of mouth and to document all dealings you have with the general public, in over 13000 inspections, like I said I had 5 complaints but those 5 cruelled it for me .
Sounds like the guy wanted a re-manufactured gearbox not a refurbished gearbox. They are different legally, refurbished is a functional item, re-manufactured is meeting original specs apart from appearance (that newly remanufactured).
Phone Calls are fine , But , RECORD THEM . And then , say to the Customer , I need the Details we discussed here IN AN E-mail before I can proceed .
Gentlemen's Agreements are just so much " Hot Air " these days , unfortunately .
Maybe it would be a good idea to get yourself a special stamp and stamp all parts of your build.
If an engine comes back to you, you would know it was your build.
Just a thought,
Two and a half thousand pounds? Rofl. Just rofl. You'd take someone to court over a measily 2500 pounds? What a joke, hahahaha.
We had a similar customer at a bicycle store I worked at regarding an elctric bicycle. In the end the store decided to just pay the guy to get rid of him. And the bike got scrapped even though it was perfectly repairable.
Have your solicitor deal with him (counter-sue) You will win. he has no paper saying recon gearbox. I assume your paperwork says just a rebuild ie clean and reassemble NO PARTS hard to say it's even the same gearbox
This individual would be classified as an "Oxygen Bandit". He is obviously playing a game. Throughout our decades of business we have only had a few that went down a very dark hole. We prevailed in all issues. We could invest hours discussing those clients. They contribute less than 1% of our client base. They take up an enormous amount of time, energy, and resources. Address the issue head on. It may take a court ruling to resolve the issue.
Courts are not always right. Sometimes judges have to idea of the intricacies of the issues at hand. That client is 1 in 500. A hemorrhoid of life.
Paul and Issac handled their bits with professionalism. Great job.
Lee......get better soon.
Try to work through the stress of this turd. Flush him.
Sounds like the guy is going under financially and he's trying it on with you for a couple of grand - on a 300 quid job! Blimey Charlie! Why stop there? Why not 3 and half grand?
I hardly know the system that exists to a "bottom feeder, relentless to graft" Now, amplified by the lawyer.
But, I offer this. The true sense of a Brit workman, craftsman...journeyman...exists to where lathe, machine tools, iron and steel components.....and yes aircraft exist to where the absolute best precision, absolute best method and regard to task is the chief, effortless fundamental to work flow. For instance, stand best to that tradesman, that service ....that component work as observant to any flaw....rejecting such lesser product.....every job, every day.
Where you get to say this, hence it becomes what is component belief to the observer. And yes, some lesser soul might win, malfeasance as false documents, false statements...might appear.
But right in the statement, you get to deliver is the reach for quality everyone can believe. That best...kind place as hands,
skills forge product.
Where you get to say such words, mean that truth to any observer...... well, after that,
accept any outcome and simply move on.
Knowing, lesser cunning rabble exist, marginal lawyers feed on such tripe. Life has such sidebar that to such
craftsman, truly mean nothing and are forgotten at once, as to the black cut, the slag heap.
Why would I know? Well, because I own a South Bend model 5 lathe of 1935 production. At my bench, it can execute a fair precision even after 88 years. And, my hands at that movement, will reject any substandard workpiece as flawed.
As ingrained as looking to morning weather...noon break sky. Plain, simple truth you see. What you get to say and hence turn to tommorrows page.. Understanding the false soliciters paper, intention as fit only to wrap fish. Over due, yess to a scuttle. M>
99% of these cases are the bluff act and don’t make it to court.
They hope to scare you and settle out of court.
Call their bluff and proceed to court and the fold and walk away.
Unfortunately Im talking from experience.
Not sure if this may help future customer complaints, but I just recently completed 22 years of working for an Audi dealership, and we put a lot of importance on something calld AudiCam. Every technician in the workshop had access to an Ipod and we video reported all our findings, uploaded and sent video to customer. Yes it was time consuming, as it was mandatory procedure on every vehicle entering the workshop, but the customers loved it, and it was video evidence. Food for thought maybe.
Back in the nineties when I was doing engine and headwork I used an electric engraver to put my name and the date on anything I worked on. People still tried it on,until I pointed to the markings
The NHS have a saying. If it isn't written down it never happened. What they mean is that you should record everything you do or say.
Any phone conversations I have with customers regarding work are confirmed by email whether they ask for it or not (including verbal agreements to proceed). Even if it relates to issues found during the job.
Unless they specifically reply, it doesn't matter if they later say they didn't agree with what is written. The fact is you have a record and they don't.
Just tell him to bring it on I’ll see you in court what do you expect for £300 if they’ve quoted 2 1/2 thousand pound to rebuild it and you only charged in 300 you couldn’t have done much to the gearbox for that apart from pull it apart inspect and put it back together
When in history, was it that you could trust every customer? Back in the seventies, when I was going to collage, day release, we did running your own motor trade business. The educator/Teacher ask the class "what do you customers want more than anything" everyone replied "Something for nothing". Another day he actually said "the customer is always right" which garnered the reply bollocks. Customers have always been untrustworthy. I've been lied about accused of damaging a customers car, we actually had video of this twat reversing his car into a concrete post, then claimed he had seen me do the damage as he arrived to collect his car. So glad I'm retired now.
Enjoy the channel and the different variety of builds / rebuilds. Can't for the life of me though understand why you report on ongoing warranty claims . Would leave all these dealings strictly between you and the customer, rather than at times asking for comments / advice on ongoing litigious matters from unqualified people. If you want legal advice go see a good lawyer and leave it at that. Just making videos about your ongoing builds is more than good enough to keep the channel very interesting. Keep up the good work.
My friend had a garace in seventies, he overhauled a Vauxhall engine to the customer. While after the the driveshaft gros joint bearing broke and customer claim that it was becaused by that engine overhaul because it happened AFTER the engine overhaul. Garage owners must take all kind of crap before they realise to stop doing work for these idiots.
Realistically the customer signed off on the gearbox to get the job done & agreed to the terms as he paid the invoice. What the customer appears not to realize is your vids of engine builds shows the quality of workmanship. Question i have did he misdiagnose what was making a noise, was it the g/box or most likely something else. Did it turn out that it wasn't the gearbox ; after all you didn't get to test drive before he took the gearbox out or when he pit it back in. Threats of legal action mean nothing when it ain't backed up with actual action. Any claims of expenses by him can be counter claimed by yours. If he expects a windfall he's sadly mistaken. Courts by & large are blind meaning they deal in law & facts not what somebody thinks should happen. He better have his ducks in a row
Talking OVER!
His word your word… His fist your fists but your fists have brass knuckles.
Sort this out NOW get yourself round there and put an end to this and him.
His next dispute should be with a plastic surgeon and a world class dentist about if they put his face back together the way he wanted!
I’m sorry, these things do tend to get a little emotional and they aren’t pleasant when the letters start coming in.
Having listened to your story you may well have an issue if for no other reason than the advice you initially gave. It is immaterial if money changes hands when advice is given but you freely admitted at the start that you weren’t an expert, and that is now irrefutable thanks to UA-cam.
His solicitor, I suspect, will go down that route ie, the advice given was incorrect, though well intentioned, and work carried out was not to a satisfactory standard, even though there isn’t a subscriber out there who believes it.
Loss wise, he can prove loss through the repair, the expert report and maybe some time.
I did smile when you stated about “Gentleman’s agreement”. and “The way the worlds gone”
Unfortunately it’s always been that way, I’ve just worked out I’ve been in business for 44 years and take it from me there’s always another one out there.
Strong, fair T’s&C’s allow gentleman’s agreements and protect longstanding relationships because all parties know where they stand.
It's a sad world I'm afraid, can't trust anyone! Best way in future is to do what my doctor serjury does,recorded message given out before phone answered to the effect that all calls are recorded for training and reference purposes! That's a legal requirement in UK to inform caller there been recorded! That l believe will help you a great deal, stop time/Money waisted litigation! Happy healthy and prosperous New year to you all!!
Call the customer, recorded line and try and talk things out, he may slip up while on the phone, try and ask why he is trying to defraud (or similar) you. With the correspondance you can show that his legal correspondance is in direct conflict with the invoice which are both admissible as evidence, add a reminder Fraud is a criminal offence as defined by the Fraud Act 2006.
Wouldn't help him again, he'll fall flat on his face sooner rather then later. Can you show how you balance engine components, piston, shanks, flywheels, clutch and etc.
Thanks
Yeah, get it all together and go down there and see what the judge says. A 2k claim isn't going to be too expensive if you lose. Costs are capped. Just get a solicitor to write your defense and appear as a litigant in person. These County Court judges are clever. They'll know if anyone is bullshitting and what will be, will be.
We have to mark every recycled part we sell. Too many people try to bring back the buggered old parts they have just replaced for refunds.
It’s just how it is now.
All this attitudes nowadays comes from the American litigation cancer. Those Septics are pathetic and lower than a worms grave because the default setting is "I'm gonna sue you pal" if anything goes wrong. It seems the UK has caught that cancer too.
If I were you, I would relish your day in court. This guy has to prove you are at fault, or show a reasonable case against you. I wouldn't continue to argue the odd via lawyers - simply proceed to court and answer the case against you. Bearing in mind your are an expert and actually did the work yourself, there will be no "nudge nudge wink wink."
He's chancing his arm. Let it play out. I don't think a civil court will consider anything he has beyond the balance of probability.
Make sure this gearbox guy is on the shit list in future. No more work from him! Lots of spivs in the UK from my own experiences there. I would be making sure he does not try and get work done by using a third party too. You do not need this type of customer at all, you clearly have enough work in the shop already.
with the gear box I'd call his bluff, tell him to F off, and refuse to do anything else for him, give in to him now and he will be doing it all the time, sometimes you just have to stand your ground on principal, if it backfires you weren't going to win anyway, so why make it easy for him,
Just another person who wants something for nothing.
Be interesting to see if he can prove your alleged wrongdoing.
I'd take legal advice and see what your rep says.
If he does get money out of you I would ban him as a customer. No jobs at all whatsoever for him to come through the shop. Life is too short to deal with dishonest people like that so I wouldn't entertain any more work of his.
You are right....dishonesty is becoming the norm and its very sad.
YEAH IT'S SHOCKING. DON'T FORGET THAT HE WILL HAVE TO PRODUCE HIS EVIDENTAL DOCUMENTS UNDER DISCOVERY RULES.
I WONDER IF HE HAS GOT THE FREE LEGAL AID (CIVIL)???
An "independent engineer" is a professional fully qualified and document person who both parties agree to. Otherwise he could be a weekend lock up expert. No good turn goes unpunished
You might ask your solicitor to investigate that person's overall financial situation; if he is having financial issues - this could show that he is attempting to obtain monies by deception, or by fraudulent means.
It is all about the verbal contract isn't it? Did your Dr say it was a bacterial infection and prescribed antibiotics as the possible benefits of that would outweigh the potential risk, or did they say I don't know if it is bacterial or viral and antibiotics may or may not make a difference and the risks of harm are low? Or did you accept the explanation and opted for antibiotics so your choice? oh, sorry you are talking about the gearbox.