I've also recently gotten my Lagom P64 (from Cafune here in Canada) a couple of weeks ago (upgrading from a Mignon Specialita) and the workflow upgrade has been a breath of fresh air. Specifically the much low noise that's generated, the greatly increased clarity using the SSP MP Unimodal burrs and the extremely low retention without having a bellows which lasted fines everywhere with the Specialita. Shout out to Pilot Coffee Roasters in Toronto and their amazing Ana Sora beans, going through a 2lb bag while seasoning my new burr set :D I haven't messed around too much with the variable RPM so I'm looking forward to your upcoming video on the subject matter! I also have a Lelit Bianca v2 so our setups are quite similar.
Great review! This confirms that I definitely want a P64, just have some saving up to do… One thing I would have liked would be some more b roll of the grinder actually grinding. I love coffee!
I have a great grinder, but it's so tempting to buy a grinder that's five times more expensive when I watch these kinds of videos. I love coffee, thank you Kyle, great video as usual!
Kyle, Thanks for doing the P64 video, after having a P64 now for about 3 months I completely agree with pretty much everything you said. Fortunately for my I haven’t scratched the surface on mine at all yet but being aluminium I have been careful knowing how soft it can be. I used a Mazzer Super Jolly for the last 5+ years which I’ve loved but the difference in the quality of the grind between the two is night and day along with the convenience of single dosing. I’m also having fun playing with grinding at different speeds and must say I really prefer the slower rpm option with most coffees but that’s purely subjective. I’m also so amazed at how quiet this grinder is compared to the Mazzer, it’s a lot quieter in real life than it appears on the video. I grind directly into a Pesado portafilter and never had an issue with it moving or vibrating out at all, I do wish the wings on the grind cup fit into the holder though rather than on the prong holder, it just seems like it should? My only other, very minor complaint is the dosing cup should have been aluminium in keeping with all of the other components rather than stainless steel, but that’s just me being nit picky. The P64 is a great grinder and I’m absolutely happy with mine.
Always great videos Kyle. I have the P64 with the SSP unimodal burrs. Love the modern espresso profile and it’s a great performer for drip. 1-2 espressos a day and 2 pour overs and it’s seamless between both. 64mm burrs are big enough for me, but grinding on a low RPM can take a bit longer than expected (still very manageable). Seemingly my end game grinder. Replaced an ode (with the SSP burrs) and a Eureka Specialista - pour overs not much better than the ode and SSP combo, but the espresso, especially light and medium roast, is leaps and bounds better. Night and day there. Also love only having one grinder as opposed to two. Glad it has your stamp of approval! Thanks for all the great videos. You’ve been a big help in my coffee journey. I love coffee!
Thanks for the thorough and honest review on the P64. Had I been in the market for one, the issues with scratches and blemishing would have been a deal breaker for me. Your past coverage of the Niche Zero helped me in making my purchase last month. Just wanted to say thanks for that and also mention that the Niche Zero is not as scarce as people are reporting lately. I bought one direct from their website last month and just checked to find them still in stock, (sans EU version), at this very moment. Thanks again, and I like coffee [too]. ~Best wishes
"This will be my daily driver for the foreseeable future" -- honestly, that's the endorsement Option-O should be advertising! Thanks for a great video Kyle.
Had this grinder for over a year with both original SSP Unimodal burrs (before Lagom asked SSP to add a bit more fines) and SSP High Uniformity burrs. The HU burrs make better espresso overall. But the unimodal’s filter brews are so much better that I keep that set in unless I’m deep diving into some espresso .
I love coffee.😁☕☕ Thanks for the review on the P64. It is tempting however the price tag is pretty steep. The Niche Zero is now more available than ever for US delivery so being more affordable and available is a win win in the NZ corner.
Been really enjoying the grinder deep dives! Finally got my P64 delivered a few weeks ago - been absolutely loving it. Same conclusion you came to - it’s going to be my daily driver for a long time to come. And…I love coffee!
Thanks, nice comparison video! i thought so long about whether to buy the Niche, the Df64 or the P64 that i ended up buying a Lelit PL72 William (64mm flat grinding discs) for now. Only after that it turned out that it is single dose capable (as also shown here on UA-cam). Since then, I have modified the hopper a little and no longer waste a thought on the above. Maybe an interesting option for one or the other here.
I think the DF64 really appeals to someone who wants 64mm flat burrs on a budget (just like what you have been saying). You definitely have to be willing to put up with a product that needs some mods / maintenance to get you to the point where the workflow is close to that of something like a P64. DF64 at 1000$ CAD with SSP burrs let's you experiment with flat burrs at approximately half the cost of the Lagom P64. So that's pretty awesome. If I had 2k CAD for a grinder the Lagom is the best choice for sure. It very much seems like a "set it and forget it" kind of grinder (like the Niche!). I'm basing all my observations on your videos (except the DF64 which I recently acquired). Keep up the good work!
Yeah, DF64 is a great budget option, out of the box many people are happy with it too. But a few tweaks / mods make it better and less messy (cup needs to be a bit closer to the spout otherwise makes a mess with the bellows!). Weber Key isn't perfectly neat either and it's even more expensive than the P64!
Great video. I will say that while this is personally my own bias, I'm always skeptical of the overall value of kilobuck+ ultra high-end grinders. I have no doubt that it's as great out of the box as you say, and is also obviously what the looks of the DF64 is based on. But whether that's truly worth more than 3x as much as a DF64, that's still something that doesn't quite add up to me personally. It's why I'm just more interested in the Lagom Mini, and really only turned off by the limits of the motor when grinding for espresso. I guess this also just comes from my experience with other hobbies with a seemingly ceiling-less price market for high-end equipment. A lot of us are looking for that "Golf GTI" in every hobby that just makes the most sense in terms of price-to-performance value.
It is all about diminishing returns- there are always gains to be had, but the better your starting point - the more you have to pay for smaller gains. That said - the more you care about something, the more these small gains matter to you.
I totally get what you mean cuz it's my shopping habit too, to try to squzee out to try to justify the value ratio in every aspect lo, but u know for this one ny logic took a turn and I recently thought thought and pulled the trigger, do I think of this stuff overpriced? Yes, and no, yes to what u said and no as to realized not everything is judged solely based out of pure performance point of view as the performance to price ratio, I told myself otherwise we would've all ended up with a car with half or 1/3 of the price of that GTI, I mean why not the less expensive one gets u A to B the same, similar if not same performance, why would people still spend more? And also when, I believe most people buy stuff they buy it as whole, not purely performance wise, otherwise the whole street would fill with motorcycles, which will obliterates with the cars with god know how many times more in prices, I guess it's the features that gives whoever buys cars more value which they simply can not get from the motorcycles, not to say that motorcycle is bad. Since ur here don't know if watched hoffman's video about the webber EG-1 grinder, it's 2.5x more price than p64 for CAD, but again the every bit of extra features, the attention to details, design, is the grinding performance 2x better than p64? Ofc not, or at least I don't believe it, somehow I just don't think it's overpriced as soon as watching him introducing all those powerful features, that combo user performance as whole, you just simply can not get with half the price, so is it worth it if one has enough counter space? And G-wagon is it really worth so relentless more than others? Wouldn't any suv car lovers still want to own it anyway if they got the money, I don't have that money, but you know I kind see where the money is going because it's one of it's kind is where the performance to ratio for this product. So df64 vs p64 I think is the much tighter machinin tolerance and high presicion, the looks and the ease of use, is something I cannot get with df64 price point, while df64 is highly capable don't get me wrong, unless you get me something with same industry standard from p64 with that price, then I will say it is overpriced, for now I'd HAVE to say, yup, it is what it is, and worth 2.5 x more prices compare to df64(around 950 cad all in with ssp ofc). I mean everything can be bought with half the price and similar if not the same performance, but you get what I mean, and hey don't be hard on yourself when it comes to buying when everything has to be strictly obeyed based on this "golden" performance to price ratio rule and read tons reviews then calculate, your gonna be exhausted, me too, realizing not everything's value is measured this way :)
Another AWESOME video. My favorite coffee house is House of Funk in North Vancouver, BC. They've been delivering beans to my home for a few months, but today I decided to pay them a visit. WOW - what a....hmmm what's the word??? What a funky little place!! They have an unobstructive view of Vancouver and the ocean (inlet). Gorgeous!! They have taught me how to appreciate good beans and you've taught me what to do with them. Thanks, Kyle!
I am kind of suprised they cheaped out and used 6061 aluminum instead of 7075, which is much more resistant to scratching. For this kind of money, they should be using the best materials.
Shoutout to The Old Salt Cafe in Foxford, Co Mayo, right there on the Moy River in Foxford. A nice young lady who knows her stuff and produces a lovely Cappa, Flat White, Espresso etc. Had a really good coffee chat with her.
Thank you for an informative video! I am hand grinding with a kinu m47 at the moment but eventually arthritis will rule that out so I’m keeping my eyes open. My favourite local café is the Diesel in Somerville, MA, and shout out to the employees of the small chain it’s part of for successfully unionizing recently, and the owners for voluntarily recognizing the union! Great for the coffee business.
Edmonton, Alberta my favorite Cafe is DOSC. It stands for Drunk Ox and Sober Cat. Drunk ox is a steak house and Sober Cat is the Cafe. They share the same space. If you have never been check it out.
I love coffee, and your vids. Keep up the elegant delivery and the honest, wonderful comparison reviews between different price brackets of similar concept equipment. Well done!
I love coffee, I've own the black P64 for almost a year now. I have not experienced any scratching issues at all. Now, I do have one of those portafilter that you need to keep an eye on otherwise it will fall out. I love the design and the coffee that O make with it. In order to get all the coffee grinds out, at the end of the grinding I ramp up the RPM to the max and it helps to get all the coffee out. The only other grinder I would consider buying would be the P100. But I feel well served with my P64 and I have no intention of changing anytime soon.
I used to think that the P64 was an overpriced 64mm grinder. There were other grinders that were "titan" class that had 75mm or 98mm burrs that felt more refined. There were also cheaper options like Mazzer SJ/Mini, etc.. that could take 64mm burrs that were much cheaper and so what did the P64 have to offer at a $1600 price point? After buying one (version 1) and using it for over a month, I must say that it is easily worth the money. The workflow, the quietness, the simplicity, the fit and finish, make it worthwhile to be compared to the higher end grinders. I have owned Monoliths, Versalabs, one off 98mm, Lab Sweets, etc.. and P64 is easily the one that I would recommend to people as the 64mm burr space is fantastic and growing, but also because it fits most people's esthetics and homes more than all the other ones out there. It isn't overly huge, not loud, not obtrusive and it just works. I don't think any of the other upcoming 64mm grinders that are coming out can compete. It is basically the Niche of flats like you said where it just works and the workflow is dead simple.
Glad to see this feedback. I went from an 83mm flat burr Ceado E37S that I ran for about 3 years, to a Kafatek MC4 conical burr...and I've been thinking about flats since I've had about a year under my belt with the MC4. I think I miss that clarity and flavor separation but I do enjoy some mouthfeel that comes with the conical burr set. Part of the limitation is brewing espresso in an E61 with no fancy flow control, but even still I think flat burrs may still be my jam
@@JusBThankful try the SSP cast. You kind of the best of both worlds where there is still clarity and body. It gives a profile that clearer than mc4 but still retains most of the body.
@@ethiopianbuffman yeah I thought about a lab sweet to go the cast burr route, if you had to guess given experience with both, how would a P64 with cast compare to a Lab sweet, for both light/med espresso and drip/pour over?
This seems like a solid grinder!! I wonder if they will use harder aluminum in the future, kind of like apple did with their iPhones after people started complaining how soft the metal was. I love coffee
It is a beautiful grinder and is definitely on my radar, I am waiting on a Lagom Mini being shipped, and I'm still patiently waiting on delivery of a Kopi Deva on Kickstarter, but I can see me eventually getting P64. My shout out to a local coffee house is Quater Horse Coffee in Birmingham, UK, great coffee and they roast on site too, so the aroma on toasting days is something else.
Great video Kyle. I love coffee. I'm looking at changing my grinders (Eureka Mignon XL and Ode) for a single all-purpose grinder. I was trying to decide between DF64 and P64. I'll definitely go for the P64. The only problem seems to be the availability.
Bean Traders in Durham, NC is the best café I've every regularly visited. They're a must if you ever find yourself in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area.
Love Coffee, Love Grinders, Love Kyle Roswell Coffee, I watch from beginning to end, it’s a wonderful world of coffee. I greatly appreciate your truth and integrity. For me the Option O
I LOVE COFFEE! Great video. I think you are uniquely qualified to give some insights on the flat/conical burr question. I have a niche and want to try a flat burr grinder to really see the differences, mainly for espresso. Really can’t figure out the SSP burr question for a df64, multipurpose or HU? Would multipurpose be overkill and would the HU not be enough different if I already have a niche? Or stick with the stock burrs? I drink mostly medium/light roasts and 80/20 espresso/filter, but also have an ode for a dedicated brew grinder.
I think this is really worth drilling down into... With the Niche there really is only one "option" - with respect to the conical burrs. It produces a great espresso in the style that has traditionally been the most popular. With the p64 there really are so many more options of burrs - and no one yet has really teased them apart. It would be great to see a review series of the option-o p64 as a 64mm burr platform... essentially testing each of the burrs available (including the new cast burrs).
Exactly same isse here with deciding which burrs to choose. Am also wondering if the HU paired with a low RPM would get you a nice hybrid because of less fines…?
Slohi coffee and bike shop in Denver CO! literally the best cappucino i ever had. spent weeks using their beans trying to get my set up to brew the same!
I always describe the P64 as a perfected DF64 but pretty sure the Lagom P64 was the original and DF64 is actually a knock off, but like many people I'm sure, I tried the DF64 first since it's much cheaper. Still a great value but the P64 has some extra features like variable RPM, very nice accessories, quieter motor (grinding volume is probably about the same, but lower RPM is generally a bit more quiet) and P64 is better looking, lower retention without having to require a bellows. If the alignment is near perfect as it's supposed to be, I think it's worth the cost, especially if you're like me and want to experiment and swap out the burrs sometimes for different ones and not have to worry about aligning the burrs. I haven't tested my alignment yet on my P64. On a budget, I think the DF64 should give you about the same workflow and same or similar coffee quality (as the P64 at highest RPM at least) with the same burr sets at least with a few cheap 3d printed mods, perfect burr alignment (which is a pain in the butt, for me at least) , and maybe some kind of de-clumper mod or removal (which is a bit of a process). P64 and DF64 have the same issue with the burr chirp caused by a bean fragment or something stuck somewhere, for me it's usually if you're going from coarse grinding back to espresso size, (i made a video about that and how to fix it actually) what I do is go super coarse first before going finer, that way you increase the burr gap and it's easier to blow out / clear the fragments stuck! DF64 may have an advantage there with the bellows, but you can kinda just tap the top of the p64 with your palm and get similar results on that one! I really like the workflow on the P64, no bellows or other nonsense as you mentioned, very similar workflow as the Niche Zero* which is probably one of the best workflow wise, P64 is even more versatile though since you can easily use the dosing cup OR go direct to the portafilter! *Ah cool you said the same thing, I hadn't gotten to that part yet in the video. Having both of those grinders (Niche + P64) would probably be a great combo to cover all your bases for pretty much any coffee or brew methods. Niche for high body, medium or dark roasts, or high clarity light roast and coarser brew methods on the P64 with SSP burrs. If you also have a DF64, and got some extra silicon fork covers, they fit on the P64 and add a little extra grip on the forks! I don't NEED it, but I like using it on mine since I don't like the feel of metal on metal contact. I never had the beans get stuck on the anti-popcorn lid part, but I can see that happening with very dark oily beans maybe OR in your case probably due to RDT (I never use RDT) the dosing funnel works fine to prevent static / mess for me. Cup is close enough to the spout it doesn't make a mess either (not the case with the DF64 ). You might get some chaff sticking to the body / spout due to static with coarser grinding though, same as with the DF64.
I decided to purchase the Mini but have changed my mind and am now TRYING to get the P64. Since I make as much drip-style coffee with my Moccamaster Cup One as I will be doing with as new espresso machine I really am undecided as to the burr set to buy. And changing out the burrs many times throughout the day is not my way of spending quality time the best way possible, I am hoping you, Kyle, might have a thought which SSP burrs I would be better off buying. By the way, like all your videos, this one was fantastic. You are correct regarding this grinder. A friend of mine took delivery of one some time back and she loves it and considers it her best grinder to date. She and her husband are now eyeing the WW EG-1. The EG-1 is in my mind the end-all, be-all grinder at a price point that very few will get to enjoy. You should look into it Kyle. It’s a true beauty.
64mm flat burrs is my end game, with the P64 being my ideal grinder, but I'll quite gladly accept the DF64 as a runner up, just need someone to figure out how to hack the motor RPM without the voltage going through the roof. Would love to see you do a review of the Ceado E37Z Hero, completely bonkers but man that's a thing of beauty with or without the control box.
I'm from Missouri and my favorite cafes are Upshot roasters and Shortwave roasters. Highly recommended trying them out if you get the chance and KC also has some great roasters, big fan of PTs and Messanger!
Need db readings on these grinders please. The Niche is so far the lowest at around 70ish. The Eureka Specialista (newest model)is around 72-74ish. My own KitchenAid coffee burr grinder is relatively quiet at 76db. (It also has an anti-static ground catcher and a nice espresso setting.) Many grinders are screaming at 80+db which I can't have in my house. A simple db test on your phone would be enough for me something in the ball park. Something we can duplicate with are phones. I'm slowly narrowing down the field for my next grinder and db readings is priority followed by quality of grind then cost. Thank you.
I picked up a Lagom P64 and agree with everything and love mine. Unimodal burrs and I happily switch between espresso and filter during the day. Quite when running and non-offensive when grinding. The chirping can be scary for the uninitiated but it is a very different sound compared to your burrs touching. Yeah the wait, it can be a lot but the website gives an estimate. Keep up the good work mate. I do love coffee
On of my favorite local coffee shops is Cafe Luxxe in the LA area. But I think one of the best local coffee/roasting companies is Groundworks. Love your videos, and I love coffee!
I’d love to see you do a video on the pros and cons of an E61 group head. Are they more difficult to clean and maintain? I’ve seen people on Reddit say they are a lot more work.
I had a lower end machine (QuickMill Silvano) and never had to work on it in 10 years of use. I think E61 group machines do seem to require more maintenance mostly opening it up and re-lubing / cleaning off / stuff checking for scale etc, but a lot of it might be for longevity, most of those machines with proper care can likely still be running in 20 years or so, I resold the Quickmill but hopefully It lasts another 10+ Years too! I believe there are a lot of replicable parts on that machine too actually if anything needed to be repaired, but the more modern electric switches don't require lubrication like E61 group with lever actuators do.
Thankfully we have three or more awesome cafe's here in town, other than SBUX: Roaster's Coffee and Tea Co. Palace Coffee Company The 806 Coffee + Lounge Love seeing all the different roasters here in TX! Great video btw! If my modded Rocky get's long in the tooth I'll have to see about upgrading to it!
Great review! Ive had the P64 for a few months now and found myself nodding along with everything you said. The only point I’d add is that the repeatability of the adjustment mechanism is sensational. I have the MP burrs and go back and forth between espresso and v60 settings almost every day, and never have to re-dial-in the espresso setting. Only other negative is that I’m now disappointed by the espresso at even the best cafes.
Amazing video, really enjoying your content Kyle. I’d have to say that this grinder is likely to be my next upgrade. Would love to see the option o and the niche go head to head from the perspective of gauging your impression of flat vs conical burrs.
Great video as always Kyle! I’ll definitely be going for the DF64 next, as you simply can’t beat the price. I have a 3D printer so I’ll be able to do all mods myself. I love coffee!
At significantly more money... The mini is amazing if it could just have a few watts more and not die from daily espresso use... That being said I don't have a Niche lol.
In your opinion, what beats my JX-Pro and is worth buying as an upgrade? Price isn’t super important, but value for dollar matters I don’t mind hand-grinding; so unless it improves the taste of my filter coffee, I’m not particularly interested in buying something new.
I think you'll find it's almost all preference at this level. I believe flat burrs will give cleaner cups but will be similar to the K series and Commandate grinders (and maybe the hept q2) . But the difference is likely going to be a case of diminished returns. If you really want to spend money specifically for filter it is probably between a hand grinder or the fellow ode. Find a cafe that makes pour over and buy their beans chances are they use a flat burr grinder, if that's an improvement over what you get with the jx Pro then you can consider what I've mentioned... No other way to really know unless you have coffee geek friends.
I love coffee. And I've owned this grinder for about four months, as well as using all three currently available burr sets. The 2022 factory stainless steel burrs are really good, and over $200 less expensive than the SSP options here in the US. The "Red Espresso Burrs" from SSP (which look like the ones you show in this video) are my choice after trying all three. They seem optimized for medium to especially darker roasts. The high uniformity burrs, in my view, are not general purpose at all, as they seem optomized only for the latest trend of super light roasts for either pour-over or espresso.
End game grinder for me… I’m a few years out on this one though. Still loving my ez-presso J-max for now. Maybe when I upgrade from my Gaggia I’ll put some coin aside to upgrade my grinder too.
Funny I have the opposite set up right now, High Uniformity (espresso) burr set in the DF64 and The Unimodal (multipurpose) in the Lagom P64. I wish I would have got an extra set of the same burrs to compare directly. I'm guessing you didn't get a chance to do that either: a direct comparison with the same burr set. I imagine if you aligned the DF64 and the de-clumper isn't causing issues and with the Lagom p64 set to highest RPM, which is the same RPM as DF64s, then grind / coffee quality should be about the same! SSP just came out with their new Cast Burrs (lab sweet style) in 64mm, I'll try those out, or Option-Os version which is coming a bit later. There's mixed info on how well the SSP ones do for espresso. Unfortunately the first batch of SSPs had issues fitting in (or sitting flat) in P64, and ODE grinders, but I believe fit fine in DF64s and Mazzers.
Have a Kinu M47 for espresso and Comandante for filter paired with the Flair 58 but I’m really wanting two setups a work setup and home and looking for a 64mm flat burr grinder. This is top of my list but about $700 out of my price range. I love coffee and just want the best out of the experience. I’m willing to wait A bit more and save up a bit more for the p64 though. Great video btw!
Enjoy your content immensely. Thank you. I just ordered my P64 in black, but am having second thoughts and might switch to silver. As you mentioned, black might show scratches much more readily plus look more messy with static chaff. Can you or your subscribers give any more views on ownership and surface wear with the different colors. Much appreciated.
I love coffee. I went from having no grinder to buying the lagom mini because of you and lance hedricks videos. I hope I don’t get upgrade-itis for this grinder too soon!
I love coffee. I came very close to getting a P64, and had had a rather long correspondence with Sam about it. At the end of the day, I just couldn’t justify the cost when I have a Niche and a modded Ode with SSP burrs (which I use almost entirely for filter). The P64 is a beautiful grinder. One thing I like about it is that the footprint is fairly modest, which is something that many of the “high end” (I have this in quotes because I certainly think of the Niche as being a high end grinder for home) certainly aren’t!
Thanks for the great review of the P64, I think I'll be eyeing this as my end game grinder unless something else comes along. Sounds like it ticks all the boxes for me and there at least an authorized Canadian dealer. Love the video and i love coffee!
♥️ coffe. Finally got my DF64 yesterday (was on order for months - slow boat from China I guess). Coming from an Encore, so just about anything is an upgrade, but so far love everything about it. Was super easy to dial in, it's quieter and much much faster than the Encore. And the dosing cup fits perfectly on the robot filter cup. Hate the button placement, but not a deal breaker. I'll give it a little while, but I'm not even sure I need any of the mods. Having said all that, the P64 just looks so dang nice. But at 4x the price I don't think I'll have one in my life any time soon :D Thanks for your excellent videos!
Shout out to La Cosecha Coffee Roasters near St. Louis, MO. Great video as always Kyle. I just got a Niche Zero... what am I really missing out by not having a flat burr grinder? FOMO is real... I LOVE coffee.
My DF83 is loud, annoying and produces uneven grinds. I'm no expert, but I don't want to deal with calibrating my grinder. Would getting a Niche Zero make sense? Is it still relevant today? Will the conical grinds be that noticeably different for espresso only, or should I splurge for the Option-O P64, which some people now saying it should have larger burrs?? I'd appreciate your and any of your followers opinions.
Update...I've been communicating with Option O and they are amazing to deal with .. emails answered in a day or two.. All questions answered. .Lost a screw and was sent another. Asked if it will last a lifetime and they said if anything happened, they'd guide you through any repair or replacement and I believe them. Reply
So I mentioned 49th Parallel Coffee shops in Vancouver and Montreal as my favourite. But my post was deleted. Do you have any prejudice against Canadian businesses ?
Love the video. I have P64 Unimodal v1 burrs. Since I got Strietman, I am wanting another espresso centric grinder. Kyle would love if you can do comparision of KEY vs Lagom P64 HU. Since you mentioned KEY delivers modern espresso style, I think it would be fun to understand a Flat HU burrs with Conical low RPM for the same style of modern Espresso.
yess. this is the endgame grinder. hands down. also with the rumors of the way Weber has been behaving as a company it totally sealed the deal on the P64 for me.
Craig Lyn (originally was half of Weber?) has a new HG-1 Prime model which is cheaper (and similar) to the Weber HG-2. Looks like a good option, with the same great burrs as the Key etc, and also a good way to Stick it to Weber :D
I love coffee! Also, my DF64, lol. I got it for $400 (currently, you can get it for 450-480), and I've spent 80 bucks on accessories from Etsy. I'm not sure if the P64 is $1000 more in value. There's definitely a diminishing return curve here and if I want to spend 1500, then I might save a bit longer and go all out with a Weber EG or P100.
I ❤️ coffee, probably as much as you 😉 So if I do get that right , I should put MP burrs in my DF64 since my needs for classic espresso is fulfilled by a Niche and a K30. With MP I could enjoy a better filter brew (with an Orea V3 on it's way , thx to your vid) and also play a bit with what you called "modern style" espresso. sweet! 🙂👍
Beans are one hecc of a.. thing. All year I'm dreaming of a P64 as my dream end game grinder but never pull the trigger, checking used ads all year for anything else, and then eventually I pondered and said f it why pay 2/3 of a P100 and not get a P100 instead. So there I am now stuck explaining why my dreams got even more expensive
That was nice, Have you seen coffee shops use high end single dose grinders for premium espresso ? Apart from ek I love coffee, especially when i see the love being done in making it
![Lagom P64 Zero Calibration [Aug 2022]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5JnjwiHZiaA/mqdefault.jpg)
I’ve had the P64 for 18 months. It is great grinder. I have the SSP unimodal (MP) burrs because I mostly brew filter coffee. I love coffee.
Thanks for sharing!
I've also recently gotten my Lagom P64 (from Cafune here in Canada) a couple of weeks ago (upgrading from a Mignon Specialita) and the workflow upgrade has been a breath of fresh air. Specifically the much low noise that's generated, the greatly increased clarity using the SSP MP Unimodal burrs and the extremely low retention without having a bellows which lasted fines everywhere with the Specialita. Shout out to Pilot Coffee Roasters in Toronto and their amazing Ana Sora beans, going through a 2lb bag while seasoning my new burr set :D
I haven't messed around too much with the variable RPM so I'm looking forward to your upcoming video on the subject matter! I also have a Lelit Bianca v2 so our setups are quite similar.
Great review!
This confirms that I definitely want a P64, just have some saving up to do…
One thing I would have liked would be some more b roll of the grinder actually grinding.
I love coffee!
I have a great grinder, but it's so tempting to buy a grinder that's five times more expensive when I watch these kinds of videos.
I love coffee, thank you Kyle, great video as usual!
Kyle,
Thanks for doing the P64 video, after having a P64 now for about 3 months I completely agree with pretty much everything you said. Fortunately for my I haven’t scratched the surface on mine at all yet but being aluminium I have been careful knowing how soft it can be. I used a Mazzer Super Jolly for the last 5+ years which I’ve loved but the difference in the quality of the grind between the two is night and day along with the convenience of single dosing. I’m also having fun playing with grinding at different speeds and must say I really prefer the slower rpm option with most coffees but that’s purely subjective. I’m also so amazed at how quiet this grinder is compared to the Mazzer, it’s a lot quieter in real life than it appears on the video. I grind directly into a Pesado portafilter and never had an issue with it moving or vibrating out at all, I do wish the wings on the grind cup fit into the holder though rather than on the prong holder, it just seems like it should? My only other, very minor complaint is the dosing cup should have been aluminium in keeping with all of the other components rather than stainless steel, but that’s just me being nit picky. The P64 is a great grinder and I’m absolutely happy with mine.
Amazing thoughts! Thanks for the feedback!
Always great videos Kyle. I have the P64 with the SSP unimodal burrs. Love the modern espresso profile and it’s a great performer for drip. 1-2 espressos a day and 2 pour overs and it’s seamless between both. 64mm burrs are big enough for me, but grinding on a low RPM can take a bit longer than expected (still very manageable). Seemingly my end game grinder. Replaced an ode (with the SSP burrs) and a Eureka Specialista - pour overs not much better than the ode and SSP combo, but the espresso, especially light and medium roast, is leaps and bounds better. Night and day there. Also love only having one grinder as opposed to two.
Glad it has your stamp of approval! Thanks for all the great videos. You’ve been a big help in my coffee journey. I love coffee!
Thanks for the thorough and honest review on the P64. Had I been in the market for one, the issues with scratches and blemishing would have been a deal breaker for me. Your past coverage of the Niche Zero helped me in making my purchase last month.
Just wanted to say thanks for that and also mention that the Niche Zero is not as scarce as people are reporting lately. I bought one direct from their website last month and just checked to find them still in stock, (sans EU version), at this very moment. Thanks again, and I like coffee [too]. ~Best wishes
"This will be my daily driver for the foreseeable future" -- honestly, that's the endorsement Option-O should be advertising! Thanks for a great video Kyle.
Had this grinder for over a year with both original SSP Unimodal burrs (before Lagom asked SSP to add a bit more fines) and SSP High Uniformity burrs. The HU burrs make better espresso overall. But the unimodal’s filter brews are so much better that I keep that set in unless I’m deep diving into some espresso .
I love coffee.😁☕☕ Thanks for the review on the P64. It is tempting however the price tag is pretty steep. The Niche Zero is now more available than ever for US delivery so being more affordable and available is a win win in the NZ corner.
Been really enjoying the grinder deep dives! Finally got my P64 delivered a few weeks ago - been absolutely loving it. Same conclusion you came to - it’s going to be my daily driver for a long time to come.
And…I love coffee!
Glad you like them!
Thanks, nice comparison video! i thought so long about whether to buy the Niche, the Df64 or the P64 that i ended up buying a Lelit PL72 William (64mm flat grinding discs) for now. Only after that it turned out that it is single dose capable (as also shown here on UA-cam). Since then, I have modified the hopper a little and no longer waste a thought on the above. Maybe an interesting option for one or the other here.
I think the DF64 really appeals to someone who wants 64mm flat burrs on a budget (just like what you have been saying). You definitely have to be willing to put up with a product that needs some mods / maintenance to get you to the point where the workflow is close to that of something like a P64. DF64 at 1000$ CAD with SSP burrs let's you experiment with flat burrs at approximately half the cost of the Lagom P64. So that's pretty awesome. If I had 2k CAD for a grinder the Lagom is the best choice for sure. It very much seems like a "set it and forget it" kind of grinder (like the Niche!). I'm basing all my observations on your videos (except the DF64 which I recently acquired). Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the detailed thoughts friend
Yeah, DF64 is a great budget option, out of the box many people are happy with it too. But a few tweaks / mods make it better and less messy (cup needs to be a bit closer to the spout otherwise makes a mess with the bellows!).
Weber Key isn't perfectly neat either and it's even more expensive than the P64!
Next video title: P100: actually perfect.
Favorite local shop: Deeply in Orlando, Florida USA.
Kyle - another great video.
thank you!
You could try comparing Lagom P64 with Weber’s Key. They have comparable price (preorder Key) but took different approaches in burr choice.
Great video. I will say that while this is personally my own bias, I'm always skeptical of the overall value of kilobuck+ ultra high-end grinders. I have no doubt that it's as great out of the box as you say, and is also obviously what the looks of the DF64 is based on. But whether that's truly worth more than 3x as much as a DF64, that's still something that doesn't quite add up to me personally. It's why I'm just more interested in the Lagom Mini, and really only turned off by the limits of the motor when grinding for espresso. I guess this also just comes from my experience with other hobbies with a seemingly ceiling-less price market for high-end equipment. A lot of us are looking for that "Golf GTI" in every hobby that just makes the most sense in terms of price-to-performance value.
It is all about diminishing returns- there are always gains to be had, but the better your starting point - the more you have to pay for smaller gains. That said - the more you care about something, the more these small gains matter to you.
I totally get what you mean cuz it's my shopping habit too, to try to squzee out to try to justify the value ratio in every aspect lo, but u know for this one ny logic took a turn and I recently thought thought and pulled the trigger, do I think of this stuff overpriced? Yes, and no, yes to what u said and no as to realized not everything is judged solely based out of pure performance point of view as the performance to price ratio, I told myself otherwise we would've all ended up with a car with half or 1/3 of the price of that GTI, I mean why not the less expensive one gets u A to B the same, similar if not same performance, why would people still spend more? And also when, I believe most people buy stuff they buy it as whole, not purely performance wise, otherwise the whole street would fill with motorcycles, which will obliterates with the cars with god know how many times more in prices, I guess it's the features that gives whoever buys cars more value which they simply can not get from the motorcycles, not to say that motorcycle is bad. Since ur here don't know if watched hoffman's video about the webber EG-1 grinder, it's 2.5x more price than p64 for CAD, but again the every bit of extra features, the attention to details, design, is the grinding performance 2x better than p64? Ofc not, or at least I don't believe it, somehow I just don't think it's overpriced as soon as watching him introducing all those powerful features, that combo user performance as whole, you just simply can not get with half the price, so is it worth it if one has enough counter space? And G-wagon is it really worth so relentless more than others? Wouldn't any suv car lovers still want to own it anyway if they got the money, I don't have that money, but you know I kind see where the money is going because it's one of it's kind is where the performance to ratio for this product. So df64 vs p64 I think is the much tighter machinin tolerance and high presicion, the looks and the ease of use, is something I cannot get with df64 price point, while df64 is highly capable don't get me wrong, unless you get me something with same industry standard from p64 with that price, then I will say it is overpriced, for now I'd HAVE to say, yup, it is what it is, and worth 2.5 x more prices compare to df64(around 950 cad all in with ssp ofc). I mean everything can be bought with half the price and similar if not the same performance, but you get what I mean, and hey don't be hard on yourself when it comes to buying when everything has to be strictly obeyed based on this "golden" performance to price ratio rule and read tons reviews then calculate, your gonna be exhausted, me too, realizing not everything's value is measured this way :)
Another AWESOME video. My favorite coffee house is House of Funk in North Vancouver, BC. They've been delivering beans to my home for a few months, but today I decided to pay them a visit. WOW - what a....hmmm what's the word??? What a funky little place!! They have an unobstructive view of Vancouver and the ocean (inlet). Gorgeous!! They have taught me how to appreciate good beans and you've taught me what to do with them. Thanks, Kyle!
Thanks for sharing!
I am kind of suprised they cheaped out and used 6061 aluminum instead of 7075, which is much more resistant to scratching. For this kind of money, they should be using the best materials.
Shoutout to The Old Salt Cafe in Foxford, Co Mayo, right there on the Moy River in Foxford. A nice young lady who knows her stuff and produces a lovely Cappa, Flat White, Espresso etc. Had a really good coffee chat with her.
I have been obsessing over options to up my coffee game, so really appreciate your content. I love coffee!
Thank you for an informative video! I am hand grinding with a kinu m47 at the moment but eventually arthritis will rule that out so I’m keeping my eyes open.
My favourite local café is the Diesel in Somerville, MA, and shout out to the employees of the small chain it’s part of for successfully unionizing recently, and the owners for voluntarily recognizing the union! Great for the coffee business.
Nice video as always Kyle. P64 definitely is on top of my list for next grinder. It's beautiful compact and fuss free.
Ps: I love coffee🙂
Thanks for the comment Arian!
just got mine yesterday! a love story to be sure.
was typing while the video finished….
I love coffee.
Edmonton, Alberta my favorite Cafe is DOSC. It stands for Drunk Ox and Sober Cat. Drunk ox is a steak house and Sober Cat is the Cafe. They share the same space. If you have never been check it out.
Would love to see a head to head of the p64 with the zerno. When is the full zerno review coming!?
I love that your reppin Art of Homage! The owner used to attend my church before moving.
Cafe D'arta at Pioneer Square in Seattle WA USA - alderwood smoke beans that leave you with a wonderful aftertaste
I love coffee, and your vids. Keep up the elegant delivery and the honest, wonderful comparison reviews between different price brackets of similar concept equipment. Well done!
I've had this grinder for over a year now. It was the single most significant improvement to my workflow and coffee quality.
Just got mine today and already I’m charmed and looking forward to making a lot of great coffee. Great and helpful review!
Great content as always Sir Kyle! Would also love to see budget flat burr grinder reviews, maybe below 200 or even below 150 dollars.
I love coffee, I've own the black P64 for almost a year now. I have not experienced any scratching issues at all. Now, I do have one of those portafilter that you need to keep an eye on otherwise it will fall out.
I love the design and the coffee that O make with it. In order to get all the coffee grinds out, at the end of the grinding I ramp up the RPM to the max and it helps to get all the coffee out.
The only other grinder I would consider buying would be the P100. But I feel well served with my P64 and I have no intention of changing anytime soon.
Your videos are so good. I’m having a lot of fun learning about this grinder that I can’t wait to imagine using but not ever actually own haha.
I used to think that the P64 was an overpriced 64mm grinder. There were other grinders that were "titan" class that had 75mm or 98mm burrs that felt more refined. There were also cheaper options like Mazzer SJ/Mini, etc.. that could take 64mm burrs that were much cheaper and so what did the P64 have to offer at a $1600 price point? After buying one (version 1) and using it for over a month, I must say that it is easily worth the money. The workflow, the quietness, the simplicity, the fit and finish, make it worthwhile to be compared to the higher end grinders. I have owned Monoliths, Versalabs, one off 98mm, Lab Sweets, etc.. and P64 is easily the one that I would recommend to people as the 64mm burr space is fantastic and growing, but also because it fits most people's esthetics and homes more than all the other ones out there. It isn't overly huge, not loud, not obtrusive and it just works. I don't think any of the other upcoming 64mm grinders that are coming out can compete. It is basically the Niche of flats like you said where it just works and the workflow is dead simple.
Well said. It is the gold standard of 64mm grinders.
Glad to see this feedback. I went from an 83mm flat burr Ceado E37S that I ran for about 3 years, to a Kafatek MC4 conical burr...and I've been thinking about flats since I've had about a year under my belt with the MC4. I think I miss that clarity and flavor separation but I do enjoy some mouthfeel that comes with the conical burr set. Part of the limitation is brewing espresso in an E61 with no fancy flow control, but even still I think flat burrs may still be my jam
@@JusBThankful try the SSP cast. You kind of the best of both worlds where there is still clarity and body. It gives a profile that clearer than mc4 but still retains most of the body.
@@ethiopianbuffman yeah I thought about a lab sweet to go the cast burr route, if you had to guess given experience with both, how would a P64 with cast compare to a Lab sweet, for both light/med espresso and drip/pour over?
@@JusBThankful they are very close. I think the p64 usability makes up any difference between the lab sweet bigger version and the replica SSP.
This seems like a solid grinder!! I wonder if they will use harder aluminum in the future, kind of like apple did with their iPhones after people started complaining how soft the metal was.
I love coffee
Maybe! I don’t want it to seem it’s SUPER soft. It’s still metal. But if not careful it can scratch
@@KyleRowsell Thanks for making great videos! I think it would have been a nice addition for this video to show the scratches up close…
It is a beautiful grinder and is definitely on my radar, I am waiting on a Lagom Mini being shipped, and I'm still patiently waiting on delivery of a Kopi Deva on Kickstarter, but I can see me eventually getting P64. My shout out to a local coffee house is Quater Horse Coffee in Birmingham, UK, great coffee and they roast on site too, so the aroma on toasting days is something else.
Thanks for sharing!
Great video Kyle.
I love coffee.
I'm looking at changing my grinders (Eureka Mignon XL and Ode) for a single all-purpose grinder. I was trying to decide between DF64 and P64. I'll definitely go for the P64. The only problem seems to be the availability.
Good choice
Bean Traders in Durham, NC is the best café I've every regularly visited. They're a must if you ever find yourself in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area.
Love Coffee, Love Grinders, Love Kyle Roswell Coffee, I watch from beginning to end, it’s a wonderful world of coffee. I greatly appreciate your truth and integrity. For me the Option O
Thank you for your honest reviews after using the machines for days!
It’s my pleasure. I’ve used it for 7 weeks at the release of this video.
I LOVE COFFEE! Great video. I think you are uniquely qualified to give some insights on the flat/conical burr question. I have a niche and want to try a flat burr grinder to really see the differences, mainly for espresso. Really can’t figure out the SSP burr question for a df64, multipurpose or HU? Would multipurpose be overkill and would the HU not be enough different if I already have a niche? Or stick with the stock burrs? I drink mostly medium/light roasts and 80/20 espresso/filter, but also have an ode for a dedicated brew grinder.
I think this is really worth drilling down into... With the Niche there really is only one "option" - with respect to the conical burrs. It produces a great espresso in the style that has traditionally been the most popular. With the p64 there really are so many more options of burrs - and no one yet has really teased them apart. It would be great to see a review series of the option-o p64 as a 64mm burr platform... essentially testing each of the burrs available (including the new cast burrs).
Exactly same isse here with deciding which burrs to choose. Am also wondering if the HU paired with a low RPM would get you a nice hybrid because of less fines…?
Slohi coffee and bike shop in Denver CO! literally the best cappucino i ever had. spent weeks using their beans trying to get my set up to brew the same!
I always describe the P64 as a perfected DF64 but pretty sure the Lagom P64 was the original and DF64 is actually a knock off, but like many people I'm sure, I tried the DF64 first since it's much cheaper. Still a great value but the P64 has some extra features like variable RPM, very nice accessories, quieter motor (grinding volume is probably about the same, but lower RPM is generally a bit more quiet) and P64 is better looking, lower retention without having to require a bellows.
If the alignment is near perfect as it's supposed to be, I think it's worth the cost, especially if you're like me and want to experiment and swap out the burrs sometimes for different ones and not have to worry about aligning the burrs. I haven't tested my alignment yet on my P64.
On a budget, I think the DF64 should give you about the same workflow and same or similar coffee quality (as the P64 at highest RPM at least) with the same burr sets at least with a few cheap 3d printed mods, perfect burr alignment (which is a pain in the butt, for me at least) , and maybe some kind of de-clumper mod or removal (which is a bit of a process).
P64 and DF64 have the same issue with the burr chirp caused by a bean fragment or something stuck somewhere, for me it's usually if you're going from coarse grinding back to espresso size, (i made a video about that and how to fix it actually) what I do is go super coarse first before going finer, that way you increase the burr gap and it's easier to blow out / clear the fragments stuck! DF64 may have an advantage there with the bellows, but you can kinda just tap the top of the p64 with your palm and get similar results on that one!
I really like the workflow on the P64, no bellows or other nonsense as you mentioned, very similar workflow as the Niche Zero* which is probably one of the best workflow wise, P64 is even more versatile though since you can easily use the dosing cup OR go direct to the portafilter!
*Ah cool you said the same thing, I hadn't gotten to that part yet in the video.
Having both of those grinders (Niche + P64) would probably be a great combo to cover all your bases for pretty much any coffee or brew methods. Niche for high body, medium or dark roasts, or high clarity light roast and coarser brew methods on the P64 with SSP burrs.
If you also have a DF64, and got some extra silicon fork covers, they fit on the P64 and add a little extra grip on the forks! I don't NEED it, but I like using it on mine since I don't like the feel of metal on metal contact.
I never had the beans get stuck on the anti-popcorn lid part, but I can see that happening with very dark oily beans maybe OR in your case probably due to RDT (I never use RDT) the dosing funnel works fine to prevent static / mess for me. Cup is close enough to the spout it doesn't make a mess either (not the case with the DF64 ). You might get some chaff sticking to the body / spout due to static with coarser grinding though, same as with the DF64.
I decided to purchase the Mini but have changed my mind and am now TRYING to get the P64. Since I make as much drip-style coffee with my Moccamaster Cup One as I will be doing with as new espresso machine I really am undecided as to the burr set to buy. And changing out the burrs many times throughout the day is not my way of spending quality time the best way possible, I am hoping you, Kyle, might have a thought which SSP burrs I would be better off buying.
By the way, like all your videos, this one was fantastic. You are correct regarding this grinder. A friend of mine took delivery of one some time back and she loves it and considers it her best grinder to date. She and her husband are now eyeing the WW EG-1. The EG-1 is in my mind the end-all, be-all grinder at a price point that very few will get to enjoy. You should look into it Kyle. It’s a true beauty.
64mm flat burrs is my end game, with the P64 being my ideal grinder, but I'll quite gladly accept the DF64 as a runner up, just need someone to figure out how to hack the motor RPM without the voltage going through the roof.
Would love to see you do a review of the Ceado E37Z Hero, completely bonkers but man that's a thing of beauty with or without the control box.
I'm from Missouri and my favorite cafes are Upshot roasters and Shortwave roasters. Highly recommended trying them out if you get the chance and KC also has some great roasters, big fan of PTs and Messanger!
Need db readings on these grinders please. The Niche is so far the lowest at around 70ish.
The Eureka Specialista (newest model)is around 72-74ish.
My own KitchenAid coffee burr grinder is relatively quiet at 76db. (It also has an anti-static ground catcher and a nice espresso setting.)
Many grinders are screaming at 80+db which I can't have in my house.
A simple db test on your phone would be enough for me something in the ball park. Something we can duplicate with are phones.
I'm slowly narrowing down the field for my next grinder and db readings is priority followed by quality of grind then cost.
Thank you.
I picked up a Lagom P64 and agree with everything and love mine. Unimodal burrs and I happily switch between espresso and filter during the day. Quite when running and non-offensive when grinding. The chirping can be scary for the uninitiated but it is a very different sound compared to your burrs touching. Yeah the wait, it can be a lot but the website gives an estimate. Keep up the good work mate. I do love coffee
Ah thanks for the kind words and feedback. All the best!
On of my favorite local coffee shops is Cafe Luxxe in the LA area. But I think one of the best local coffee/roasting companies is Groundworks. Love your videos, and I love coffee!
Thanks for sharing!
I’d love to see you do a video on the pros and cons of an E61 group head. Are they more difficult to clean and maintain? I’ve seen people on Reddit say they are a lot more work.
I had a lower end machine (QuickMill Silvano) and never had to work on it in 10 years of use.
I think E61 group machines do seem to require more maintenance mostly opening it up and re-lubing / cleaning off / stuff checking for scale etc, but a lot of it might be for longevity, most of those machines with proper care can likely still be running in 20 years or so, I resold the Quickmill but hopefully It lasts another 10+ Years too! I believe there are a lot of replicable parts on that machine too actually if anything needed to be repaired, but the more modern electric switches don't require lubrication like E61 group with lever actuators do.
My favorite coffee shop in my area is Morning Bell Coffee Roasters in Ames, Iowa.
Normcore café, Wynyard station Sydney - shoutout to a great team of barista's and roasters!
Favorite local café is Blue Bottle, in San Francisco.
Mechant Pinsons in Montreal. If ever you're in town you gotta check em out! Shaughnessy, Pista, and Cordova are up there as well.
Thankfully we have three or more awesome cafe's here in town, other than SBUX:
Roaster's Coffee and Tea Co.
Palace Coffee Company
The 806 Coffee + Lounge
Love seeing all the different roasters here in TX!
Great video btw! If my modded Rocky get's long in the tooth I'll have to see about upgrading to it!
Great review! Ive had the P64 for a few months now and found myself nodding along with everything you said.
The only point I’d add is that the repeatability of the adjustment mechanism is sensational. I have the MP burrs and go back and forth between espresso and v60 settings almost every day, and never have to re-dial-in the espresso setting.
Only other negative is that I’m now disappointed by the espresso at even the best cafes.
Great points! And yes - I can resonate with that last point ha.
Amazing video, really enjoying your content Kyle. I’d have to say that this grinder is likely to be my next upgrade. Would love to see the option o and the niche go head to head from the perspective of gauging your impression of flat vs conical burrs.
Thanks Philip! Large comparison incoming.
I love coffee! The P64 definitely is the end-goal grinder for me. Definitely out of the budget though.
I'm in berkeley; I'm a huge fan of Bartavelle cafe. Great coffee from Heart and amazing food.
Great video as always Kyle!
I’ll definitely be going for the DF64 next, as you simply can’t beat the price. I have a 3D printer so I’ll be able to do all mods myself.
I love coffee!
Right on!
“ I love coffee” ,…..also all my hand grinders have variable rpm! Hahaha
Favorite cafe: ambience, Handlebar. Coffee, Dune. Both in Santa Barbara, Ca.
Kyle. Please do a grinder setting video on the Smart Grinder pro - settings for V60, aeropress, espresso, etc.
Well I have a niche zero but I'm glad to see competitors finally giving it a hard time! Keep up the videos Kyle! They're great as always!
At significantly more money... The mini is amazing if it could just have a few watts more and not die from daily espresso use... That being said I don't have a Niche lol.
I love coffee! And I have the Flair 58 together with ah J-Max currently. This video has gotten me so tempted to get the P64.........
In your opinion, what beats my JX-Pro and is worth buying as an upgrade? Price isn’t super important, but value for dollar matters
I don’t mind hand-grinding; so unless it improves the taste of my filter coffee, I’m not particularly interested in buying something new.
I think you'll find it's almost all preference at this level. I believe flat burrs will give cleaner cups but will be similar to the K series and Commandate grinders (and maybe the hept q2) . But the difference is likely going to be a case of diminished returns. If you really want to spend money specifically for filter it is probably between a hand grinder or the fellow ode.
Find a cafe that makes pour over and buy their beans chances are they use a flat burr grinder, if that's an improvement over what you get with the jx Pro then you can consider what I've mentioned... No other way to really know unless you have coffee geek friends.
I love coffee. And I've owned this grinder for about four months, as well as using all three currently available burr sets. The 2022 factory stainless steel burrs are really good, and over $200 less expensive than the SSP options here in the US. The "Red Espresso Burrs" from SSP (which look like the ones you show in this video) are my choice after trying all three. They seem optimized for medium to especially darker roasts. The high uniformity burrs, in my view, are not general purpose at all, as they seem optomized only for the latest trend of super light roasts for either pour-over or espresso.
End game grinder for me… I’m a few years out on this one though. Still loving my ez-presso J-max for now. Maybe when I upgrade from my Gaggia I’ll put some coin aside to upgrade my grinder too.
Funny I have the opposite set up right now, High Uniformity (espresso) burr set in the DF64 and The Unimodal (multipurpose) in the Lagom P64. I wish I would have got an extra set of the same burrs to compare directly. I'm guessing you didn't get a chance to do that either: a direct comparison with the same burr set.
I imagine if you aligned the DF64 and the de-clumper isn't causing issues and with the Lagom p64 set to highest RPM, which is the same RPM as DF64s, then grind / coffee quality should be about the same!
SSP just came out with their new Cast Burrs (lab sweet style) in 64mm, I'll try those out, or Option-Os version which is coming a bit later. There's mixed info on how well the SSP ones do for espresso. Unfortunately the first batch of SSPs had issues fitting in (or sitting flat) in P64, and ODE grinders, but I believe fit fine in DF64s and Mazzers.
Have a Kinu M47 for espresso and Comandante for filter paired with the Flair 58 but I’m really wanting two setups a work setup and home and looking for a 64mm flat burr grinder. This is top of my list but about $700 out of my price range. I love coffee and just want the best out of the experience. I’m willing to wait A bit more and save up a bit more for the p64 though. Great video btw!
If I had the money,
P64 no question.
What’s probably in reach?
Df64.
Ps: I love coffee
Lately I've been going to Stoic Coffee Company here in Albuquerque they're close to me and I really enjoy their Tanzania Peaberry it's delicious!
Thanks for sharing!
Favorite local cafe would bean & bean in little neck Ny
Enjoy your content immensely. Thank you. I just ordered my P64 in black, but am having second thoughts and might switch to silver. As you mentioned, black might show scratches much more readily plus look more messy with static chaff. Can you or your subscribers give any more views on ownership and surface wear with the different colors. Much appreciated.
I love coffee. I went from having no grinder to buying the lagom mini because of you and lance hedricks videos. I hope I don’t get upgrade-itis for this grinder too soon!
Calusa Coffee Roasters and Well's Coffee Co in broward county florida!
I love coffee.
I came very close to getting a P64, and had had a rather long correspondence with Sam about it. At the end of the day, I just couldn’t justify the cost when I have a Niche and a modded Ode with SSP burrs (which I use almost entirely for filter). The P64 is a beautiful grinder.
One thing I like about it is that the footprint is fairly modest, which is something that many of the “high end” (I have this in quotes because I certainly think of the Niche as being a high end grinder for home) certainly aren’t!
Thanks for the great review of the P64, I think I'll be eyeing this as my end game grinder unless something else comes along. Sounds like it ticks all the boxes for me and there at least an authorized Canadian dealer.
Love the video and i love coffee!
♥️ coffe. Finally got my DF64 yesterday (was on order for months - slow boat from China I guess). Coming from an Encore, so just about anything is an upgrade, but so far love everything about it. Was super easy to dial in, it's quieter and much much faster than the Encore. And the dosing cup fits perfectly on the robot filter cup. Hate the button placement, but not a deal breaker. I'll give it a little while, but I'm not even sure I need any of the mods. Having said all that, the P64 just looks so dang nice. But at 4x the price I don't think I'll have one in my life any time soon :D Thanks for your excellent videos!
Shout out to La Cosecha Coffee Roasters near St. Louis, MO. Great video as always Kyle. I just got a Niche Zero... what am I really missing out by not having a flat burr grinder? FOMO is real... I LOVE coffee.
Don’t fomo into flat burrs if you don’t need it. The niche zero is fantastic, Enjoy your coffee with your current grinder!
Shout out to my favourite local cafe, Kinsfolk Coffee. Great coffee, great food, and great staff
I love coffee..you got me on option 0 100 now just thinking about if p64 is enough for what I need
My DF83 is loud, annoying and produces uneven grinds. I'm no expert, but I don't want to deal with calibrating my grinder. Would getting a Niche Zero make sense? Is it still relevant today? Will the conical grinds be that noticeably different for espresso only, or should I splurge for the Option-O P64, which some people now saying it should have larger burrs?? I'd appreciate your and any of your followers opinions.
Thanks for the detailed review, man. I'm not in the market for a new grinder yet… but it's nice to know my options. 😉
I do love coffee.
My pleasure!
I have been using the P64 for a few months too and totally agreed it is easy to accidentally scratch the grinder!
I love coffee!
Thanks for sharing!
i love coffeeee!
and also: The Good Coffee Society, Vienna :)
Been looking for endgame flat burr grinders and this seems to be it(?)
Love coffee btw
It would definitely be a solid end game grinder.
The “true” endgame grinder would be the Lagom P100, Kafatek Monolith Max, and the EG-1.
Just got this . Gave away my Pietro and Kinu I got the SSP Red burrs
Update...I've been communicating with Option O and they are amazing to deal with .. emails answered in a day or two.. All questions answered. .Lost a screw and was sent another. Asked if it will last a lifetime and they said if anything happened, they'd guide you through any repair or replacement and I believe them.
Reply
So I mentioned 49th Parallel Coffee shops in Vancouver and Montreal as my favourite. But my post was deleted. Do you have any prejudice against Canadian businesses ?
Kyle, I wish to know the comparison between P64 and mini
Love the video. I have P64 Unimodal v1 burrs. Since I got Strietman, I am wanting another espresso centric grinder. Kyle would love if you can do comparision of KEY vs Lagom P64 HU. Since you mentioned KEY delivers modern espresso style, I think it would be fun to understand a Flat HU burrs with Conical low RPM for the same style of modern Espresso.
yess. this is the endgame grinder. hands down. also with the rumors of the way Weber has been behaving as a company it totally sealed the deal on the P64 for me.
Thanks for watching!
Craig Lyn (originally was half of Weber?) has a new HG-1 Prime model which is cheaper (and similar) to the Weber HG-2. Looks like a good option, with the same great burrs as the Key etc, and also a good way to Stick it to Weber :D
Likely going to pick up the Lagom mini but definitely wishing I could stretch to get the P64.
I love coffee! Also, my DF64, lol. I got it for $400 (currently, you can get it for 450-480), and I've spent 80 bucks on accessories from Etsy. I'm not sure if the P64 is $1000 more in value. There's definitely a diminishing return curve here and if I want to spend 1500, then I might save a bit longer and go all out with a Weber EG or P100.
I ❤️ coffee, probably as much as you 😉
So if I do get that right , I should put MP burrs in my DF64 since my needs for classic espresso is fulfilled by a Niche and a K30. With MP I could enjoy a better filter brew (with an Orea V3 on it's way , thx to your vid) and also play a bit with what you called "modern style" espresso. sweet!
🙂👍
Big Lake Coffee in Östersund, Sweden!
Beautiful shooting as always 💯. 1000 Faces in Athens, Ga is definitely a go too for me.
Appreciate it!
Beans are one hecc of a.. thing. All year I'm dreaming of a P64 as my dream end game grinder but never pull the trigger, checking used ads all year for anything else, and then eventually I pondered and said f it why pay 2/3 of a P100 and not get a P100 instead. So there I am now stuck explaining why my dreams got even more expensive
That was nice,
Have you seen coffee shops use high end single dose grinders for premium espresso ?
Apart from ek
I love coffee, especially when i see the love being done in making it
Sidetrack Coffee in Opelika, AL