+Chef Larom Shut the fuck up. This guy is being helpful no only writing the list, but also writing the times so that people can go to the class they want to see. Stop moaning.
The point is that you watch the entire video though. That's how youtube works. I will never get it. You folks will sit there and watch janky ass streams for hours on end but you can't watch a 20min video without needing to skip half of it? Gotta take some more of that adderall me thinks.
Well that's something that should be obvious, but as 8-9 year warrior main, WoD was my last expansion playing one. Just far too boring and easy, it's something that you seemingly can't play wrong. While rest of my raid learned their new specs and boss fights, I'd be there with nothing interesting to do or learn. Demon Hunter is seemingly bit of an underdog anyway, works fine for me.
I like how you explain your reasoning and the other factors after you list, it beings allot more clarity to your videos. It also makes them more professional, as you are taking other factors into account and you are addressing bias you may have. Keep up the good work.
What you said at the end is why I love brewmaster, not only do you have the interaction with brews and lowering the cooldowns but brewmasters have a really fun ability to kite adds and live through stuff that shouldn't be possible.
That was just in the beginning of the Brewmaster. Now it is not possible anymore to keep ISB up 100% all the time, at least when you still want to purify your stagger. And you also do not want to keep it up 100% all the time, the stagger will get very high very fast. The tuning at the moment is so you use ISB as your active mitigation tool (the Brewmaster hasn't others) like the Prot Paladin is using SotR as his and then purify your stagger whenever needed.
Chimchompat The issue is that you can't purify all your stagger at once, only half of it with one charge of PB. But when you keep ISB up 100% all the time you won't have the charges of PB to purify you in the long run, or when demanden.
I agree with most of the list except warriors which I'd have first or 2nd. It could be better, with more choices but the mobility, animations and some of the dbz style screaming are really awesome and compensate for ignore everything.... I mean pain.
Also agree, but moreover I think Preach may be selling the warrior rotation short a little. With ~40% haste you can get 100% uptime on Shield Block, and that then leads to an interesting rage management challenge in which you want to 1) keep Shield Block up, while 2) buffing Shield Slam DPS with Focused Rage as much as possible, while 3) getting as many IP's in as possible too, without rage starving yourself at crucial moments. Talent synergy between Ultimatum and Vengeance adds RNG procs to the mix, reducing rage costs on FR and IP but at random times. It turns into a high-maintenance high-apm playstyle but with a hefty reward, particularly in hard progression content. I would rate Warrior #2 for that. (Druid #1 b/c you get the same thing just spamming Swipe, IF, and Frenzied Regen).
And Vengeance Demon Hunters got buffed. The self heal is now even stronger (by 22%) and their main mitigation ability (demon spikes) now reduces more damage via mastery. The baseline ability was not changed, just how much their mastery affects it.
Ignore Pain is still strong AF and Warrior is still realy strong. Dk is still fine and the main problem for DH wich is magic damage still wasn't addressed. Demon Spikes mitigates only Physical dmg. For Mythic content u still don't want to use a demon hunter
MasterofDesaster1989 While I agree that Demon Hunters can't quite deal with magical damage very well compared to some other tanks, I definitely wouldn't say "don't use a Demon Hunter". Many people say that they're going to be fantastic "off-tanks" or "add-tanks" or whatever people want to call it these days due to their movement alone. They still have ways to help reduce magical damage though; they passively reduce all magic damage taken by 10% which is okay. Plus they have Empower Wards to reduce that by another 30% for 6 seconds which is on a 20 second CD. Those two combined is pretty good. Every tank is going to be viable in Legion, whether anyone likes it or not. There will always be a tank that may be easier to handle or manage in a single raid due to mechanics and how their kit could handle the mechanics (that's just the nature of MMOs), but all will be viable. It looks like Guardian Druid is going to be that easier tank this expansion with their large health pools that don't affect the healers mana any more than any other tank would. Warriors a close second with ignore pain. But we'll see what the top guilds start saying when it comes time to raid in Legion. But as of right now, it's far too early to start spreading the "don't take this class/spec" stuff.
+Ventem Well everything you said is correct but that doesn't change the fact that dh just gets killed during one global cooldown in high mythic+ dungeons. And you don't have a good defensiv cooldown to mitigate dmg when you pull a big pack you will be dead before you can say soul cleave. And the last time you had something like an off tank or add tank was years ago. As a warrior you can just use one ability and than you can use Shield block and you are good to go. Same with dk (Bone shield) paly (SoTR) druid (iron fur + massiv health Pool) i don't play monk so i cant say anything about monk.
Thanks for the video! I'm just getting back to wow after 3ish year break (left in second tier of MoP) and wanted to level a tank alt. I don't really like tanking that much, but like having the alt to help others, so the simplicity of Warrior and Pally really appeals to me . This video made my deciding on an alt much easier!
i tried the brewmaster and it just felt horrible to me. i really enjoyed the brewmaster up through wod but it just felt bare to me on the ptr and in the prepatch... but i guess to each their own
+Gewsfrahba +RobinotX idk.. it just felt slower than i remember it, and didn't feel as martial art-sy... idk. its just my own opinion, and obviously a lot of people will disagree with me... thats alright. to each their own.
The end of this video was really good! Just hammering home that point that it's personal opinion, stuff changes, play what you enjoy even if Preach doesn't personally enjoy it! Shows some responsibility from you Preach knowing the influence your popularity can have. Gotta hope people take that to heart and chill out when it comes to judging other people's decisions in that oh so fun elitist way some tend to do. Also I'm really enjoying prot pally due to how somewhat relaxed it feels to play (at the moment at least!) and the new animations and sounds (CLONK) really help add to the fun.
Your insight to Legion before launch was ideal for me. I myself am now starting to main a Brewmaster Monk with a fire theme. Keep up the awesome videos.
Just one complaint - DKs have good talent choices? REALLY? DK has only 1 good talent in most tiers. There's next to no choice with DK talents. Seriously, it's kinda sad. I love my BLood DK and will likely main him iin Legion, but talent choices are garbage...
very true. ive found most Dk specs have mustpick talents, with some noteable exceptions like UH DK 100 talent choice. but like: the sludge belcher for instance, its a must pick for PVE, it's boring, ugly (uses a scaled down vanilla model whereas the wlock got tons of cool new pet models) and you can't even glyph it to look better...
I can't understand this either. Same goes to healers where druids are fun, but priests aren't while one of them mashes the button in whole fights just like the other while the difference is HoTs vs direct heals. Talent wise druids have like two rows where there is any decision to be made.
I believe he was talking about the talents in regards if they were to be balanced at 110. Current balance gives us really three tiers that have the "best talent" but that also have a niche talent that is useful in certain scenarios. Rest of the tiers really have just one choice.
First tier has a niche talent for encounters you require healing but are often out of boss range (Blooddrinker can be channeled while running to the boss from up to 30yd). Second tier has a niche talent (Spectral Deflection) for bosses that hit very very slow, but very very hard. Third tier has Anti-Magic Barrier, and if we ever see a fight that has comparable burst damage to Mythic Mannoroth, it can be a valuable extra CD (it's doubtful thought, but it's there.) Fourth tier you take Red Thirst no matter what. Fifth tier is a free choice in raiding, but Tightening Grasp let's us kite with DnD in high Mythic+. Sixth tier you take Foul Bulwark, and tha's it. Seventh tier you take Purgatory unless you overgear content and want more DPS, in that case you take Bonestorm. TL;DR; #1 is 99% Heartbreaker, but on some raid bosses you may opt Blooddrinker #2 is 99% RD, but on some raid bosses you may opt SD #3 is 99% Ossuary, but in future tiers you might opt Anti-Magic Barrier for some raid bosses #4 and #6 are set to stone. #5 is personal prefereance, but Tightening Grasp is generally the right choice for M+ due kiting. #7 you swap Bonestorm / Purgatory likely when you are overgearing content or in/out of raid/M+
I love your lists, even if I don't agree with parts of them (I love Warrior tanking still). If you did a restrospect of the DPS (Melee/Ranged) and Healing right before launch when the balancing is wrapped up for the most part, I'd be so happy. Maybe even just one video, saying who'd you'd move up/down, and did a Winner and Loser's list for the Classes for Legion, taking all the specs and their playstyles into perspective.
Very helpful thank you. Just came back to WoW after not playing since Lich King, your thoughts gave me a lot to consider for my grinding old chars, and for my 100 boost!
Thanks Preach. I've been taking your advice on picking a main for Legion. Your videos paired with my own testing has been a great help. I was so looking forward to maining a DH but have decided that Monk is my way to go. Loads of fun and lots of utility and role options.
Began to focus on Tanking in WoD, because I didn't feel like the feral or restro druid were for me anymore and did have quite some fun with it in the weeks and couple months after launch. When I heard that Tanking in Legion got much simpler, I was bumped out, but got kind of excited for feral and restro again, but other speccs sounded more exciting. I even abandoned the druid for a long time because I wanted to level other characters instead. But hearing about having proper options makes it much more exciting than I had in mind so far, and now I will stop levelling and try to get back into stuff. I know, I know, pre-patch is nothing to go by, but it allows to get a general feel and when I like it, I will continue maining my druid for the 6th year.
I'm going to try out Guardian, but this is the first expansion since WotLK that I might be switching mains to something other than Druid (which is a shame because I got the Salty title on him). I'm a long time Feral, but the duration changes to the most viable talents (savage roar & jagged wounds) make the spec damn near unmanageable. This compounds with the spec's other weaknesses and I'm just about ready to throw in the towel - giving a close eye to DK and Monk given Preach's recommendations. Hopefully Guardian can save druid for me...made a lot of progress on him I'd prefer not to abandon.
All in all, the druid seems to be this multitalent it always (or at least since WotLK) was that offers most players something. Will probably play around with everything I can get half decent gear for until launch and then make my proper decision on it. Haven't played him since before 6.1, so it's been a while. Though Enhancement and Shadow are so damn tempting...
To be honest lists like this seem needless for tanks and misleading for everybody, who are still looking for a main as a tank for legion. Don't feel discouraged to pick a class preach ranked lower on this list. I spent a lot of time on the beta and let me tell you guys gameplaywise the difference between the low end and the high end is very small for tanks. I feel like all of the classes lack a lot of depth and feel awfully similar. Additionally my list would look completely different. I hate the new brewmaster, which could be because I mained one in WoD and hate the changes, which is maybe partly a reason why preach dislikes the Legion Prot Warrior so much. I still enjoy tanking, but I feel like which class I'd choose would make very little difference. Only thing important is first which kind of gameplay you enjoy as a tank, proactive or reactive or in the case you're looking to progress the hardest content, which classes are the strongest. TLDR: Don't let this list influence you too much. Try to get more in depth information and try it for yourself.
As of today, DH just got a minor buff for tanking, doesn't really change gameplay, just a bit more healing/tankiness. I've been tempted to see how monk is. I have a lv. 34 that I started a while back, maybe I'll start leveling it up.
I was so lost without the lord and savior preach, thank you for once again showing us the way. *stops refreshing preach youtube page every half an hour 24/7*
I've been a Bear since Wrath and that will never change. Also do you tank alot because you face the mobs towards the group....why? You always tank with the back towards the group.
If I could suggest a video, since release day for Legion is ticking by, for a comparison among all the characters with all specs. For the people who are undecided, seeing the comparison of all the classes compiled into the strength, weakness and how fun they are e.g. someone torn between DK and Monk could see how all the specs compare and what would be more interesting for them to try. Thanks for your time and the great videos. :)
I've picked up monk in the prepatch due to all their really fun specs, and sifting through every one of these videos I've been sitting here like "The monk spec is gonna be the best one, just watch"
i played a monk for the last 3 months, I just resubbed after a 9 or so year break from WoW. My last expack was burning crusades. I was really digging the Brew master and then they changed it. Now i have to say Demon Hunter is much more fun to tank in regular/heroic dungeons. Seeing how i havent raided yet i have nothing to compare it too in that area of gameplay. I have a paladin, monk and demon hunter. And the demon hunter is what i find my self enjoying the most.
yeah he says all the tanks are viable and he looks at the utility each of them brings but he doesnt look at ok this tank takes 0.021% less dmg cause that will change
While I think Protection Paladin lacks certain things and could surely be done better, I find it more fun and engaging than Warrior or Druid tanking, and it especially feels better than WoD Protadin for me, and I've played one since TBC and partly vanilla. The thing about Protection Paladin (especially now) is that if you wanna be a tank with self sustain and self mitigation, saving your abilities only for yourself, it's damn easy and not so engaging, which ends you with a boring rotation. But if you take Protection Paladin a step further and see them as a tank with the ability to support the group and the healer, it becomes a ton of fun if you're into that sort of thing. I've started using the Hand of the Protector with Righteous Protector, along with Bastion of Light, which is actually a ton of fun. There's a lot of encounters, especially bosses, (mostly in 5man but raids too) where it will benefit you more healing your allies to help your healer than to wait for that moment when you need to heal yourself. If your allies requires the immediate healing more than you, and knowing your healer will struggle, using that heal on them puts less strain on the healer and also means they can focus on you sooner. You become this "oh shit" off-healer, seeing as Hand of the Protector heals more the less HP they have, which makes it very rewarding when you get that massive heal with an ally at 5% HP. This support side can be seen with other things the paladin has, like the Blessings or Lay on Hands. They're not all just for yourself, and what makes me engaged in playing a paladin tank is knowing when these are useful for me and when they're more on others. Add this with how we finally have a useful ability to heal others regularly (Don't even say Word of Glory or the talented version was useful for anyone but yourself), it makes me feel like a true paladin that can protect others beyond just tanking. Now some might see this as pretty niche, especially if you're doing Mythic raiding or progressing content. I'd not go it other than when I'm confident that I won't have much problem and I know the encounters. Others may also say that tanks should just tank, and healers should do the rest. But frankly, I see no reason why you can't have a mixture. In the end, as a tank your job is not just to tank, but to make the runs as smooth as possible. I feel this was also what they were always trying to aim with Prot Paladin (even if the heal is a talent) and why it has such simple and at times boring rotation. The rotation allows you to widen your focus to your whole group a lot better, which in turn means you can pull those quick moves to save your allies.
Hey Preach, is the song at around 20:55 Varien - Sacred Woods? It is hard to tell and there's nothing about it in the description but I thought I heard some of the vocals.
@PreachGaming I love your work. I personally find tanking stressful as shit as this is the first xpac Im going to tank Ive healed since Vanilla. So Pally is where Im going but your insight into what I can level my eyes on for more engaging tank experiences is good. Keep up the good work man
Biggest turnoff for Druid Tanking is the fact that I need to look at bear-ass all day long. If they had a glyph that gave me the option to maintain the normal humanoid form, it would be much more attractive.
That's honestly the reason I won't go Boomkin, although I could see myself really enjoying the spec now. I just can't stand to look at that Owl MONSTROSITY for weeks on end
Everyone should watch the outro, because he summarised his views and reasons pretty well. First time for example when I see someone mentioning that pre patch is broken effectively. I know many of us know this, but to other people this might not be trivial. The OP-ness vs fun explanation is clear for me now as well.
For Warrior, i got the talent that allows my ignore pain and my Focused rage to buff each other so instead of just focusing on ignore pain, i bounce between the two and shield block. it makes for a much more interesting rotation.
Been a Guardian Druid since Cata and I just love this incarnation of the hybrid talent tier. Just a bit ago I actually healed and tanked a dungeon on timewalking VP because healer died to static cling twice (side note love the brez without needing to be in caster). For me the question isn't "Is the tanking interesting?" but "rather what can I do for the group in addition to tanking?"
Yeah, it's a shame he doesn't like it :P Personally, I think Prot Pallies, Prot Warriors and Bears are amazing... both fun and good to play and for healers, Hpaladin is my favorite along with the Disc Priest.
This is an opinion video. He states quite a few times that this is his opinion. He never said that any of the tanks were bad except for DH, and it's a very real problem that they have in higher damage situations.
Prot Warrior is going to be a required main tank spot for every top guild. They take next to zero dmg and have many cds for pressing mechanics. Also they have a leach talent for the whole raid to passive heal from their dmg. Past that either Guardian druid or blood dk are picked up as the other tank. They are both great for tank swapping as they heal themselves up. They don't spike when they are holding the boss either due to blood shield for dk and prepping the dmg for the druid with iron fur. Unfortunately DH spikes in dmg without something like blood sheild. Pally's are having dmg spike issues without their cds currently. And Monks do best when below half life where healers never want to see their tank at half life.
with the first tier bonus for DH it looks like there will be a huge uptime on demon spikes and stacking mastery mastery makes demon spikes super powerful. I have a feeling when nighthold comes out DH tanks will be OP.
So as a hybrid, Monk seems to be the go to choice. I was planning to play a Windwalker anyway but I am happy to see Brewmaster and Mistweaver beeing up there aswell. I think i'll go with the Windwalker/Mistweaver Combo as Holy Priest just isn't as fun anymore.
I have 8 100's right now heading into Legion. My three tanks are my Guardian Druid, Blood DK, and Vengeance DH. My healers are Holy Priest and Mistweaver Monk. Then I have my old main Arms Warrior, Ret Pally, Enhancement Shaman and a low level rogue and warlock. I'm working on my level 94 Survival Hunter I'm trying to get to 100 right now before Legion launches. I might think about tanking on the warrior depending on how hard it is to level two artifacts.
I won't lie, I hate Focused Rage the most on the prot warrior. My main is a prot warrior and I despise focused rage. It feels so out of place like it doesn't even belong in my rotation.
Personally I kinda agree with you on some things for vengance. - Losing sigil of chains was a sad thing when I noticed they had put it back on the sigil tier :( - Meta really needs to be buffed to actually have it's gameplay improved. - The DH does have the same mitigation potential and complexity as guardian druid but it's all tied up in felblade, fracture and soul barrier. With those 3 you get way more choice in how you utilise your resources and also in prepping for incoming damage. High haste and mastery are guna be really important in making vengeance both fun and good.
After watching him play his prot paladin, I just laugh at how he said it would be impossible to fuck up the rotation, especially since he did nothing but fuck up the rotation.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I actually like the new Shield Of The Righteous and "word of glory." Never cared for the pooling system of [Get 3 holy power, wait for attack CDs, use Shield Of The Righteous/Word of Glory, spam 3 attacks for holy power, use SotR/WoG again]. Now you can just pool 3 charges of SotR, and Light of the Protector can be available for those clutch saves. The problem is that your three attack abilities are still spammed. Judgement still just gives you "holy power," Avenging shield gives you an absorb (which I'm going to avoid the trait for as long as I can so I don't feel obligated to spam it asap), and Blessed Hammer is just mitigation, so you want to spam these as soon as they come up, which is what they should have focused on giving functionality to instead of consecrate. If they give Judgement the same kind of functionality as Thunder Tea/Blackout Strike where it modifies other abilities, as well as removed the defensive capabilities of Avengers Shield as to keep it as a utility/damage move instead of a spam asap move, I think the prot paladin would be in a nice place. Or heck, just increase to CD of Judgement and Avenger's shield a little bit and increase their defensive power (for example: instant charge of SotR from Judgement), and that would add some kind of decision making to the spell.
My list is almost completely inverted. Mind you outside of my server community I am a nobody and this is my personal very biased opinion. I am really enjoying my prot pally. That obviously might have something to do with having the same main since vanilla and being a prot pally since BC, but I really enjoyed both the beta and it in live, the artifact weapon and talents are really good and we have a lot of mythic dungeon utility. The only thing I would switch around on my list are monk and warrior. I can't stand prot warrior now and brewmaster is just so good.
*Shrug* I like the protection paladin. Looking at their giant bag of tricks I don't quite understand how they have little choice but hey, that's just me. Fun for me is to be able to do things no other class can do, and the paladin can do just that. That they are also looking to be very strong with their mastery and all that is just a bonus.
Great video Preach! Wanted to ask: does active mitigation still feel like it gets chewed up and spit out as you said in the first one? Where you felt sometimes you just ran out of answers and had to pray the healer was awake? Thanks and keep up the good work, your Legion coverage is probably the best you've ever done, very appreciated!
I think that the most viable end game atm in regards to shrugging off damage without too much of a thought are Guardian Druid and Brewmaster Monks. Monks have a much more interesting rotation and options. Druids have great base line reduction and can pick and chose how they want to improve one it, not to mention their self healing is beautiful for when the reduction isnt enough.
the footage doesn't display all the testing he's done but just what he's chosen to show as an example. a fair majority of mythic dungeons the trash is exceedingly more difficult to do than the bosses themselves by design. there is multiple hard hitting abilities coming in that might be mitigated but most of the damage is getting through and you don't gain more resources or more mitigation for higher number of targets like the other stronger tanks do.
you'd think with the firebrand spreading and the fire dmg healing that vengeance would have a seething boner for trash pulls. I'm going to stick it out with vengeance and try to wait out the BM monk buff that they got mid WoD
I'm in the same place man. I'm going to stick with it. I can't help but think with the recent buffs on MMO champ that they are on the same path as the BM monk.
I think a lot of people think you're ranking the tanks based on performance and not gameplay, Sadly sometimes some of the most boring specs are some of the strongest.
Well first of all play what you like, its all about having fun in the end, so pick class that you like the most. I would personally choose paladin, I like the button smashy style and as he said its kinda hard to fuck up with prot paladin. But thats totally my opinion.
After playing WoW for 12 years an never tanking, I'm really enjoying tanking as a Vengence DH. i dont know that i could go back to not having double jump and double leap.
BM Best.... Have you seen the cooldowns and things we have to chose from as talents... Followed preach for a long time but never have I had such complete opposite opinions to him on a video.
I like that I main monk for legion, exactly because of this reason - you have to play monk right. It really feels that the skill and fun cap is a little more higher then just numbers or safety of most other classes. But from the other side even I know my class is the not brain dead class, it is not a best choice for RL. Progression in games is not about how fun it is to play your class - the fun comes just from progress. So all op/safe classes will be higher in this list of picking for hard content. For me monk will be a competitive in dps/heal, but tank is just too stressful for me as a healer who has to heal a tank.
To be honest though i do not think everyone wants to think about eight things at once, for example i have aspergers syndrome any more than three decisions simultaneously and my brain melts i just dont have the capacity to do anymore, so im quite glad that some classes dont require too much thought.
Nice to know where the tanks stand for raiding, but what about soloing? For doing old MoP or (possibly) even WoD content solo, who do you think is best? Is that still blood dk? Seems like guardian druid and vengeance dh might be closing the gap. Maybe even the new affliction locks.
While the Prot Warrior base is a bit boring I think it gets pretty good if you get the Vengence and Heavy Repercussions talents which puts emphasis on a lot more buttons without throwing the class on its head round it out with the Ultimatum talent to help a bit with resource starvation and I think it works pretty well
Completely agree with you. Ultimatum+vengeance on prot gives it more depth and skill cap than any other tank. It feels like preach did not really optimise hos rotations as brm can get bank 1 charge of purity with no cost, that makes it super trivial.
i am hoping fury warriors are viable at 110 cause i am just having a blast playing my fury warrior. i'll eventually tank and hopefully prot warrior is acceptable in raids but right now fury all day every day and having a blast. but i do look forward to my shadow priest
I got rid of that stupid filler ability that fury warriors have: can't even remember what it was called because it was so damn boring. Whirlwind all day now baby!
Hey preach, love your content, just really curious about your ranking of DK. I understand these lists are highly subjective, but that's why i ask of your opinion and reasoning. Why is it a DK is ranked so high when their only core form of tanking gameplay comes from pressing one button for a stale buff (boneshield) i have mained a DK for a long time, but i much prefer the old style and when people say the new Blood is fun, i simpley dont understand. Yes they have blood mirror, but thats one 8 second DR while every other spec seems to have so many options. Thanks for your time :)
Is a Blood DK a suitable offtank with a protection warrior? I've only been DK as my "main alt" before so this is the first time actually doing my main raiding as a tank so I'm unfamiliar with combinations etc. I doubt I'd change since I adore Blood DK but you know, it's good to know if I'm dragging people down with my choice or not.
So what I've gotten from these is just opinions about the gameplay (rotations and cooldowns) of each class and their specs from these comparison videos. I'm not saying I dont like them or disagree with anything in these, cept maybe Blood DK being fun at all, but I was looking for more of an actual comparison on how well the new class/spec changes perform against each other in raids (Heroic and Mythic only). Unless he's done these already, then I'll just go watch those, about the hard numbers in terms of damage mitigated/healing/dps.
Gratz for this Preacher. Having watched this and tbh all of your Legion uploads I get the impression that the "art of tanking" is now a lossed skill, as with healing and DPS its has all become very consolely, no more than four buttons to press and a powerup every now and again. Seriously though do you see the end game raiding and mythic+ beening only for the few as it was in vanilla, or do you see a lot more people doing end game raiding in Legion?, if you answer is for the latter, do you see this as the game beening "dumbed down"? Looking forward to your adventures in Legion, best of luck and good RNG to you and your fellow guidies
Just watching this back with the state of tanks in bfa makes me sad man, dk's are currently in the position dh was in on the legion beta, and the cool thing about brewmaster which is managing your brew charges is gone because of how quickly you get them back now, and instead they have turned into an overpowered damage soaker with more brew charges than you can possibly use, how is it a thing that you can have 100% uptime on ironskin and still have charges left to purify?
this is one of those videos where your typical decision process around fun is a poor, poor choce. any tank player worth anything wants to feel lke they are contributing and not a drag to their raid or group of friends. it doesnt matter if the playstyle is fun, it needs to work and let you TANK. these videos need to evaluate actual performance and not some stupid anecdotal information like how they feel.
Well that depends on your definition of fun. If you think that being the best tank of your guild is the fun part of tanking, then by all means choose that class. However, a lot of people see this as a game, and play to have fun; so a video like this would be helpful to those players. My point is: if this video doesn't satisfy your personal means, it doesn't mean it does not satisfy someone else's.
If you where in a guild in which performance of a tank is that vital to you, you would be experienced as a tank in a high end guild where you could form your opinion based on performance, such as myself. The type of video you described would appeal to a virtually non existent audience.
"any tank player worth anything wants to feel lke they are contributing and not a drag to their raid or group of friends." Any tank player worth anything should have at least some knowledge about his role as a tank as well as positioning and mechanics so they ARE contributing regardless of what class they play. They could contribute that as a mage if they know what they're doing. "it doesnt matter if the playstyle is fun, it needs to work and let you TANK." Except that every tanking class is working and viable even if you don't know what you're doing most of the time. If you just want the currently best performance of any given class or specc, I'd link you to one of Preachers earlier videos where he said that those classes at the top can be nerfed any time while those at the bottom can be buffed (but I don't know which video that was so there's no link). In that case you might choose whatever is "said" to be the strongest now, might not even know what you're doing and therefore perform subpar, only to be nerfed into an average but boring as hell tank. Numbers and theorethical performance isn't everything. Especially in a game.
Did you even watch the video? He discusses their strength for half of them. He says both Protection Pally and War are really good but Vengeance is meh.
I can't wait to get back into the game. I'm just a little freaked out since I haven't played since Mist of Panderia. I love my Warrior so I'll stick with him for now.
Based on what I've played on live so far I could not agree more with this list, brewmaster is soo good, never really focussed on a monk in the past, I leveled one but never did much with her, this time around I think I'll play her much more.
Feel my pain Preach. I just started playing a few months ago for the first time since cata. Thought to myself "I've always wanted a paladin" I ended up having 2 max lvl paladins as my only max lvl characters, and thought I was pretty happy. Then the pre-patch hit. Not going to play those anymore. Maybe holy.
during the prepatch im currently bringing my toons to ilvl 700 because i stopped playing WoD just after Blackrock then once legion hits i'll have 2 classes 110 asap the first being the one i enjoy the rotations on and will be my main and a DH who i will be leveling with my friend to 110 when we can
![[Basics] Introduction to Tanking 1/5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wtg_ricaVZQ/mqdefault.jpg)
TL;DR List
Worst
Prot Paladin - 1:09
Prot Warrior - 3:19
Better
Vengence Demon Hunter - 5:55
Gaurdian Druid - 10:43
Best
Blood Deathknight - 12:35
Brewmaster Monk - 15:45
This is like a comment version of adblock. Stop.
Why do you read comments before watching the video then?
+Chef Larom Shut the fuck up. This guy is being helpful no only writing the list, but also writing the times so that people can go to the class they want to see. Stop moaning.
Exactly my thoughts!
The point is that you watch the entire video though. That's how youtube works. I will never get it. You folks will sit there and watch janky ass streams for hours on end but you can't watch a 20min video without needing to skip half of it? Gotta take some more of that adderall me thinks.
If you like playing certain class play it ,don't let other people effect your decision ,for me I like playing a warrior and pally
I am playing my undead warrior too... was my first max level char on an official server and I really love him
i think people freak out a bit too much with the "numbers" of the class.
Well that's something that should be obvious, but as 8-9 year warrior main, WoD was my last expansion playing one. Just far too boring and easy, it's something that you seemingly can't play wrong. While rest of my raid learned their new specs and boss fights, I'd be there with nothing interesting to do or learn.
Demon Hunter is seemingly bit of an underdog anyway, works fine for me.
Yeah no shit, idk why everyone feels they need to say this whenever someone makes a video about specs.
Yeah no shit that's why he repeats himself over and over that it's all his opinion and he understands why people play other classes.
I really like the explanation of your decisions at the end of the video. It helps make everything clear. Great video Preach!
I like how you explain your reasoning and the other factors after you list, it beings allot more clarity to your videos. It also makes them more professional, as you are taking other factors into account and you are addressing bias you may have.
Keep up the good work.
What you said at the end is why I love brewmaster, not only do you have the interaction with brews and lowering the cooldowns but brewmasters have a really fun ability to kite adds and live through stuff that shouldn't be possible.
That decision turns out to be spam ISB to keep 90% up time at 110.
That was just in the beginning of the Brewmaster. Now it is not possible anymore to keep ISB up 100% all the time, at least when you still want to purify your stagger. And you also do not want to keep it up 100% all the time, the stagger will get very high very fast. The tuning at the moment is so you use ISB as your active mitigation tool (the Brewmaster hasn't others) like the Prot Paladin is using SotR as his and then purify your stagger whenever needed.
If you have that high of uptime on ISB, the stagger damage is going to kill you.
+TheShinyDunsparce yea there isn't a point of stagger if you never purify it
Chimchompat The issue is that you can't purify all your stagger at once, only half of it with one charge of PB. But when you keep ISB up 100% all the time you won't have the charges of PB to purify you in the long run, or when demanden.
I'm so glad you're making these videos and keep pushing the point that numbers don't matter. It's all about having fun.
I agree with most of the list except warriors which I'd have first or 2nd. It could be better, with more choices but the mobility, animations and some of the dbz style screaming are really awesome and compensate for ignore everything.... I mean pain.
Agreed completely
+FuZZy961 Nice trolling. Much wow. I want your babies.
Nah mate, he actually thinks for himself. You should try that yourself sometimes.
Also agree, but moreover I think Preach may be selling the warrior rotation short a little. With ~40% haste you can get 100% uptime on Shield Block, and that then leads to an interesting rage management challenge in which you want to 1) keep Shield Block up, while 2) buffing Shield Slam DPS with Focused Rage as much as possible, while 3) getting as many IP's in as possible too, without rage starving yourself at crucial moments. Talent synergy between Ultimatum and Vengeance adds RNG procs to the mix, reducing rage costs on FR and IP but at random times. It turns into a high-maintenance high-apm playstyle but with a hefty reward, particularly in hard progression content. I would rate Warrior #2 for that. (Druid #1 b/c you get the same thing just spamming Swipe, IF, and Frenzied Regen).
Love your videos so much Preach, gonna love them even more now that Ghost is joining you full time
As a fellow tank player since vanilla I can concur that Brewmaster is the only tank that still feels rewarding to play in this expansion.
LOVE these comparison videos so much, first time WoW player here getting ready for legion and they help so much! Thanks
Just an FYI to people. Just today in a hotfix on live Death Knight's bone shield and Prot Warrior's ignore pain have been nerfed.
And Vengeance Demon Hunters got buffed. The self heal is now even stronger (by 22%) and their main mitigation ability (demon spikes) now reduces more damage via mastery. The baseline ability was not changed, just how much their mastery affects it.
Ignore Pain is still strong AF and Warrior is still realy strong. Dk is still fine and the main problem for DH wich is magic damage still wasn't addressed. Demon Spikes mitigates only Physical dmg. For Mythic content u still don't want to use a demon hunter
MasterofDesaster1989 While I agree that Demon Hunters can't quite deal with magical damage very well compared to some other tanks, I definitely wouldn't say "don't use a Demon Hunter". Many people say that they're going to be fantastic "off-tanks" or "add-tanks" or whatever people want to call it these days due to their movement alone.
They still have ways to help reduce magical damage though; they passively reduce all magic damage taken by 10% which is okay. Plus they have Empower Wards to reduce that by another 30% for 6 seconds which is on a 20 second CD. Those two combined is pretty good.
Every tank is going to be viable in Legion, whether anyone likes it or not. There will always be a tank that may be easier to handle or manage in a single raid due to mechanics and how their kit could handle the mechanics (that's just the nature of MMOs), but all will be viable. It looks like Guardian Druid is going to be that easier tank this expansion with their large health pools that don't affect the healers mana any more than any other tank would. Warriors a close second with ignore pain. But we'll see what the top guilds start saying when it comes time to raid in Legion. But as of right now, it's far too early to start spreading the "don't take this class/spec" stuff.
+Ventem Well everything you said is correct but that doesn't change the fact that dh just gets killed during one global cooldown in high mythic+ dungeons. And you don't have a good defensiv cooldown to mitigate dmg when you pull a big pack you will be dead before you can say soul cleave. And the last time you had something like an off tank or add tank was years ago. As a warrior you can just use one ability and than you can use Shield block and you are good to go. Same with dk (Bone shield) paly (SoTR) druid (iron fur + massiv health Pool) i don't play monk so i cant say anything about monk.
That scratch on the TV tho ...
wtf is going on with legion. top classes: shamans monks and shdowpriests
A revolution, a beautiful class revolution.
Top in terms of gameplay for him, not performance.
Forgetting Death Knight
Mage will reign supreme. that said no ks are a close second.
That's what I've been saying, eventhough I don't play them (and still won't), I'm really glad those classes/specs have gotten some love
It's finally here! Thank you Preach, been looking forward to using this to help me finally decide what class to play!
Exactly what I was saying from the start about the prot warrior, it comes down to just using "Ignore Pain"
was REALLY looking forward to the this recap. Thank you very much!
Thanks for the video! I'm just getting back to wow after 3ish year break (left in second tier of MoP) and wanted to level a tank alt. I don't really like tanking that much, but like having the alt to help others, so the simplicity of Warrior and Pally really appeals to me . This video made my deciding on an alt much easier!
i tried the brewmaster and it just felt horrible to me. i really enjoyed the brewmaster up through wod but it just felt bare to me on the ptr and in the prepatch... but i guess to each their own
In what way you felt it is horrible :)?
Prepatch definitely feels pretty bad, but the artifact has quite a few quality of life things
yeah i dont get that what didnt u like? i think its better
You need OD for the brewmaster to work properly.
+Gewsfrahba +RobinotX
idk.. it just felt slower than i remember it, and didn't feel as martial art-sy... idk. its just my own opinion, and obviously a lot of people will disagree with me... thats alright. to each their own.
The end of this video was really good! Just hammering home that point that it's personal opinion, stuff changes, play what you enjoy even if Preach doesn't personally enjoy it! Shows some responsibility from you Preach knowing the influence your popularity can have. Gotta hope people take that to heart and chill out when it comes to judging other people's decisions in that oh so fun elitist way some tend to do.
Also I'm really enjoying prot pally due to how somewhat relaxed it feels to play (at the moment at least!) and the new animations and sounds (CLONK) really help add to the fun.
dude you fixed the audio in the office and i love it even more keep it up
Your insight to Legion before launch was ideal for me. I myself am now starting to main a Brewmaster Monk with a fire theme. Keep up the awesome videos.
Just one complaint - DKs have good talent choices? REALLY? DK has only 1 good talent in most tiers. There's next to no choice with DK talents. Seriously, it's kinda sad. I love my BLood DK and will likely main him iin Legion, but talent choices are garbage...
very true. ive found most Dk specs have mustpick talents, with some noteable exceptions like UH DK 100 talent choice. but like: the sludge belcher for instance, its a must pick for PVE, it's boring, ugly (uses a scaled down vanilla model whereas the wlock got tons of cool new pet models) and you can't even glyph it to look better...
I can't understand this either. Same goes to healers where druids are fun, but priests aren't while one of them mashes the button in whole fights just like the other while the difference is HoTs vs direct heals. Talent wise druids have like two rows where there is any decision to be made.
I believe he was talking about the talents in regards if they were to be balanced at 110. Current balance gives us really three tiers that have the "best talent" but that also have a niche talent that is useful in certain scenarios. Rest of the tiers really have just one choice.
Seriously. DKs have ~5 mandatory talents, and ~8 that just don't work worth crap. The only tier you get any choice on is the last.
First tier has a niche talent for encounters you require healing but are often out of boss range (Blooddrinker can be channeled while running to the boss from up to 30yd).
Second tier has a niche talent (Spectral Deflection) for bosses that hit very very slow, but very very hard.
Third tier has Anti-Magic Barrier, and if we ever see a fight that has comparable burst damage to Mythic Mannoroth, it can be a valuable extra CD (it's doubtful thought, but it's there.)
Fourth tier you take Red Thirst no matter what.
Fifth tier is a free choice in raiding, but Tightening Grasp let's us kite with DnD in high Mythic+.
Sixth tier you take Foul Bulwark, and tha's it.
Seventh tier you take Purgatory unless you overgear content and want more DPS, in that case you take Bonestorm.
TL;DR;
#1 is 99% Heartbreaker, but on some raid bosses you may opt Blooddrinker
#2 is 99% RD, but on some raid bosses you may opt SD
#3 is 99% Ossuary, but in future tiers you might opt Anti-Magic Barrier for some raid bosses
#4 and #6 are set to stone.
#5 is personal prefereance, but Tightening Grasp is generally the right choice for M+ due kiting.
#7 you swap Bonestorm / Purgatory likely when you are overgearing content or in/out of raid/M+
I love your lists, even if I don't agree with parts of them (I love Warrior tanking still). If you did a restrospect of the DPS (Melee/Ranged) and Healing right before launch when the balancing is wrapped up for the most part, I'd be so happy. Maybe even just one video, saying who'd you'd move up/down, and did a Winner and Loser's list for the Classes for Legion, taking all the specs and their playstyles into perspective.
PREACH! Thanks for making videos man. You help make my life awesome!
Very helpful thank you. Just came back to WoW after not playing since Lich King, your thoughts gave me a lot to consider for my grinding old chars, and for my 100 boost!
Thanks Preach. I've been taking your advice on picking a main for Legion. Your videos paired with my own testing has been a great help. I was so looking forward to maining a DH but have decided that Monk is my way to go. Loads of fun and lots of utility and role options.
Began to focus on Tanking in WoD, because I didn't feel like the feral or restro druid were for me anymore and did have quite some fun with it in the weeks and couple months after launch. When I heard that Tanking in Legion got much simpler, I was bumped out, but got kind of excited for feral and restro again, but other speccs sounded more exciting. I even abandoned the druid for a long time because I wanted to level other characters instead. But hearing about having proper options makes it much more exciting than I had in mind so far, and now I will stop levelling and try to get back into stuff. I know, I know, pre-patch is nothing to go by, but it allows to get a general feel and when I like it, I will continue maining my druid for the 6th year.
I'm going to try out Guardian, but this is the first expansion since WotLK that I might be switching mains to something other than Druid (which is a shame because I got the Salty title on him). I'm a long time Feral, but the duration changes to the most viable talents (savage roar & jagged wounds) make the spec damn near unmanageable. This compounds with the spec's other weaknesses and I'm just about ready to throw in the towel - giving a close eye to DK and Monk given Preach's recommendations. Hopefully Guardian can save druid for me...made a lot of progress on him I'd prefer not to abandon.
All in all, the druid seems to be this multitalent it always (or at least since WotLK) was that offers most players something. Will probably play around with everything I can get half decent gear for until launch and then make my proper decision on it. Haven't played him since before 6.1, so it's been a while. Though Enhancement and Shadow are so damn tempting...
To be honest lists like this seem needless for tanks and misleading for everybody, who are still looking for a main as a tank for legion. Don't feel discouraged to pick a class preach ranked lower on this list.
I spent a lot of time on the beta and let me tell you guys gameplaywise the difference between the low end and the high end is very small for tanks. I feel like all of the classes lack a lot of depth and feel awfully similar. Additionally my list would look completely different. I hate the new brewmaster, which could be because I mained one in WoD and hate the changes, which is maybe partly a reason why preach dislikes the Legion Prot Warrior so much.
I still enjoy tanking, but I feel like which class I'd choose would make very little difference. Only thing important is first which kind of gameplay you enjoy as a tank, proactive or reactive or in the case you're looking to progress the hardest content, which classes are the strongest.
TLDR: Don't let this list influence you too much. Try to get more in depth information and try it for yourself.
As of today, DH just got a minor buff for tanking, doesn't really change gameplay, just a bit more healing/tankiness. I've been tempted to see how monk is. I have a lv. 34 that I started a while back, maybe I'll start leveling it up.
I was so lost without the lord and savior preach, thank you for once again showing us the way.
*stops refreshing preach youtube page every half an hour 24/7*
The scratch on the screen... Can never be unseen
I've been a Bear since Wrath and that will never change. Also do you tank alot because you face the mobs towards the group....why? You always tank with the back towards the group.
15:29 (your wraith walk is not out of the action bars?.. Its DK's mobility.. You can also talent it so it last twice as long)
If I could suggest a video, since release day for Legion is ticking by, for a comparison among all the characters with all specs. For the people who are undecided, seeing the comparison of all the classes compiled into the strength, weakness and how fun they are e.g. someone torn between DK and Monk could see how all the specs compare and what would be more interesting for them to try. Thanks for your time and the great videos. :)
I'm really enjoying my Brewmaster at the moment, really having fun! :) Great video Preach and always look forward to hearing your views :)
Monk master race....errr class.
Pandaren master race!
+Chase P. As long as they're mages
I've picked up monk in the prepatch due to all their really fun specs, and sifting through every one of these videos I've been sitting here like "The monk spec is gonna be the best one, just watch"
i played a monk for the last 3 months, I just resubbed after a 9 or so year break from WoW. My last expack was burning crusades. I was really digging the Brew master and then they changed it. Now i have to say Demon Hunter is much more fun to tank in regular/heroic dungeons. Seeing how i havent raided yet i have nothing to compare it too in that area of gameplay. I have a paladin, monk and demon hunter. And the demon hunter is what i find my self enjoying the most.
To this day I have never seen a pandaren mage in the wild.
So this is just a fun factor list? not a viability list? beacuse what I've read and seen Prot paladins and Bear druids gonna be the togo tanks
its mostly fun cause palas are strong but boring so if u want too know which is the best tank not the most fun than this lsit is wrong for u
Just no. One of them can be a warrior's sidekick but that us all.
He does say they're viable though. Listen to all the words.
yeah he says all the tanks are viable and he looks at the utility each of them brings but he doesnt look at ok this tank takes 0.021% less dmg cause that will change
that's weird I heard dk and dh are gonna be the best tanks
While I think Protection Paladin lacks certain things and could surely be done better, I find it more fun and engaging than Warrior or Druid tanking, and it especially feels better than WoD Protadin for me, and I've played one since TBC and partly vanilla.
The thing about Protection Paladin (especially now) is that if you wanna be a tank with self sustain and self mitigation, saving your abilities only for yourself, it's damn easy and not so engaging, which ends you with a boring rotation. But if you take Protection Paladin a step further and see them as a tank with the ability to support the group and the healer, it becomes a ton of fun if you're into that sort of thing.
I've started using the Hand of the Protector with Righteous Protector, along with Bastion of Light, which is actually a ton of fun. There's a lot of encounters, especially bosses, (mostly in 5man but raids too) where it will benefit you more healing your allies to help your healer than to wait for that moment when you need to heal yourself.
If your allies requires the immediate healing more than you, and knowing your healer will struggle, using that heal on them puts less strain on the healer and also means they can focus on you sooner. You become this "oh shit" off-healer, seeing as Hand of the Protector heals more the less HP they have, which makes it very rewarding when you get that massive heal with an ally at 5% HP.
This support side can be seen with other things the paladin has, like the Blessings or Lay on Hands. They're not all just for yourself, and what makes me engaged in playing a paladin tank is knowing when these are useful for me and when they're more on others. Add this with how we finally have a useful ability to heal others regularly (Don't even say Word of Glory or the talented version was useful for anyone but yourself), it makes me feel like a true paladin that can protect others beyond just tanking.
Now some might see this as pretty niche, especially if you're doing Mythic raiding or progressing content. I'd not go it other than when I'm confident that I won't have much problem and I know the encounters. Others may also say that tanks should just tank, and healers should do the rest. But frankly, I see no reason why you can't have a mixture. In the end, as a tank your job is not just to tank, but to make the runs as smooth as possible.
I feel this was also what they were always trying to aim with Prot Paladin (even if the heal is a talent) and why it has such simple and at times boring rotation. The rotation allows you to widen your focus to your whole group a lot better, which in turn means you can pull those quick moves to save your allies.
Hey Preach, is the song at around 20:55 Varien - Sacred Woods? It is hard to tell and there's nothing about it in the description but I thought I heard some of the vocals.
@PreachGaming I love your work. I personally find tanking stressful as shit as this is the first xpac Im going to tank Ive healed since Vanilla. So Pally is where Im going but your insight into what I can level my eyes on for more engaging tank experiences is good. Keep up the good work man
love the new studio preach!
Good Job preach, Really well looked at and understand your choices! :D BUT THAT SCRATCH THOOOO!!!!!!!
Biggest turnoff for Druid Tanking is the fact that I need to look at bear-ass all day long. If they had a glyph that gave me the option to maintain the normal humanoid form, it would be much more attractive.
But you can be a stone bear. That has to count for something right?
Cant you use toys and such now while you are in different forms now?
Then druid really isn't for you.
That's honestly the reason I won't go Boomkin, although I could see myself really enjoying the spec now. I just can't stand to look at that Owl MONSTROSITY for weeks on end
there's a glyph to not look like an owl
Everyone should watch the outro, because he summarised his views and reasons pretty well. First time for example when I see someone mentioning that pre patch is broken effectively. I know many of us know this, but to other people this might not be trivial. The OP-ness vs fun explanation is clear for me now as well.
For Warrior, i got the talent that allows my ignore pain and my Focused rage to buff each other so instead of just focusing on ignore pain, i bounce between the two and shield block. it makes for a much more interesting rotation.
Been a Guardian Druid since Cata and I just love this incarnation of the hybrid talent tier.
Just a bit ago I actually healed and tanked a dungeon on timewalking VP because healer died to static cling twice (side note love the brez without needing to be in caster).
For me the question isn't "Is the tanking interesting?" but "rather what can I do for the group in addition to tanking?"
15:46 Great, now I want a beer. Well, time to raid my fridge
An outstand video Preach! Keep it up buddy :)
I don't agree with you at all, not dps, not healers, not tanks xD
I just like watching your videos haha.
yes, he's overall just spouting negativity about Legion on all fronts. Just because he personally doesn't like anything about it doesn't make it bad.
Yeah, it's a shame he doesn't like it :P
Personally, I think Prot Pallies, Prot Warriors and Bears are amazing... both fun and good to play and for healers, Hpaladin is my favorite along with the Disc Priest.
This is an opinion video. He states quite a few times that this is his opinion. He never said that any of the tanks were bad except for DH, and it's a very real problem that they have in higher damage situations.
Prot Warrior is going to be a required main tank spot for every top guild. They take next to zero dmg and have many cds for pressing mechanics. Also they have a leach talent for the whole raid to passive heal from their dmg. Past that either Guardian druid or blood dk are picked up as the other tank. They are both great for tank swapping as they heal themselves up. They don't spike when they are holding the boss either due to blood shield for dk and prepping the dmg for the druid with iron fur. Unfortunately DH spikes in dmg without something like blood sheild. Pally's are having dmg spike issues without their cds currently. And Monks do best when below half life where healers never want to see their tank at half life.
That's a flat out lie. I've watched only like 2 or 3 of his legion bids but he said tonnes of positive things. Selective hearing?
Whats fun is that I like both your worst and best tanks! Fun vid.
with the first tier bonus for DH it looks like there will be a huge uptime on demon spikes and stacking mastery mastery makes demon spikes super powerful. I have a feeling when nighthold comes out DH tanks will be OP.
So as a hybrid, Monk seems to be the go to choice. I was planning to play a Windwalker anyway but I am happy to see Brewmaster and Mistweaver beeing up there aswell. I think i'll go with the Windwalker/Mistweaver Combo as Holy Priest just isn't as fun anymore.
I have 8 100's right now heading into Legion. My three tanks are my Guardian Druid, Blood DK, and Vengeance DH. My healers are Holy Priest and Mistweaver Monk. Then I have my old main Arms Warrior, Ret Pally, Enhancement Shaman and a low level rogue and warlock. I'm working on my level 94 Survival Hunter I'm trying to get to 100 right now before Legion launches. I might think about tanking on the warrior depending on how hard it is to level two artifacts.
I won't lie, I hate Focused Rage the most on the prot warrior. My main is a prot warrior and I despise focused rage. It feels so out of place like it doesn't even belong in my rotation.
just gonna note that there is a few fights that will be optimally done with 3 tanks on mythic difficulty during raiding
Personally I kinda agree with you on some things for vengance.
- Losing sigil of chains was a sad thing when I noticed they had put it back on the sigil tier :(
- Meta really needs to be buffed to actually have it's gameplay improved.
- The DH does have the same mitigation potential and complexity as guardian druid but it's all tied up in felblade, fracture and soul barrier. With those 3 you get way more choice in how you utilise your resources and also in prepping for incoming damage.
High haste and mastery are guna be really important in making vengeance both fun and good.
After watching him play his prot paladin, I just laugh at how he said it would be impossible to fuck up the rotation, especially since he did nothing but fuck up the rotation.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I actually like the new Shield Of The Righteous and "word of glory." Never cared for the pooling system of [Get 3 holy power, wait for attack CDs, use Shield Of The Righteous/Word of Glory, spam 3 attacks for holy power, use SotR/WoG again]. Now you can just pool 3 charges of SotR, and Light of the Protector can be available for those clutch saves.
The problem is that your three attack abilities are still spammed. Judgement still just gives you "holy power," Avenging shield gives you an absorb (which I'm going to avoid the trait for as long as I can so I don't feel obligated to spam it asap), and Blessed Hammer is just mitigation, so you want to spam these as soon as they come up, which is what they should have focused on giving functionality to instead of consecrate.
If they give Judgement the same kind of functionality as Thunder Tea/Blackout Strike where it modifies other abilities, as well as removed the defensive capabilities of Avengers Shield as to keep it as a utility/damage move instead of a spam asap move, I think the prot paladin would be in a nice place.
Or heck, just increase to CD of Judgement and Avenger's shield a little bit and increase their defensive power (for example: instant charge of SotR from Judgement), and that would add some kind of decision making to the spell.
My list is almost completely inverted. Mind you outside of my server community I am a nobody and this is my personal very biased opinion. I am really enjoying my prot pally. That obviously might have something to do with having the same main since vanilla and being a prot pally since BC, but I really enjoyed both the beta and it in live, the artifact weapon and talents are really good and we have a lot of mythic dungeon utility. The only thing I would switch around on my list are monk and warrior. I can't stand prot warrior now and brewmaster is just so good.
I enjoy preach he give u his view and what he thinks doesn't tell u that u must.
*Shrug* I like the protection paladin. Looking at their giant bag of tricks I don't quite understand how they have little choice but hey, that's just me.
Fun for me is to be able to do things no other class can do, and the paladin can do just that. That they are also looking to be very strong with their mastery and all that is just a bonus.
Great video Preach! Wanted to ask: does active mitigation still feel like it gets chewed up and spit out as you said in the first one? Where you felt sometimes you just ran out of answers and had to pray the healer was awake?
Thanks and keep up the good work, your Legion coverage is probably the best you've ever done, very appreciated!
I think that the most viable end game atm in regards to shrugging off damage without too much of a thought are Guardian Druid and Brewmaster Monks. Monks have a much more interesting rotation and options. Druids have great base line reduction and can pick and chose how they want to improve one it, not to mention their self healing is beautiful for when the reduction isnt enough.
Thanks for the video been wondering about the tanks
I was literally just in a mythic dung group, saying how the trash is harder than bosses as vengeance
the footage doesn't display all the testing he's done but just what he's chosen to show as an example. a fair majority of mythic dungeons the trash is exceedingly more difficult to do than the bosses themselves by design. there is multiple hard hitting abilities coming in that might be mitigated but most of the damage is getting through and you don't gain more resources or more mitigation for higher number of targets like the other stronger tanks do.
you'd think with the firebrand spreading and the fire dmg healing that vengeance would have a seething boner for trash pulls. I'm going to stick it out with vengeance and try to wait out the BM monk buff that they got mid WoD
I'm in the same place man. I'm going to stick with it. I can't help but think with the recent buffs on MMO champ that they are on the same path as the BM monk.
I think a lot of people think you're ranking the tanks based on performance and not gameplay, Sadly sometimes some of the most boring specs are some of the strongest.
Really struggling between prot pally and vengeance DH.. Any thoughts?
Well first of all play what you like, its all about having fun in the end, so pick class that you like the most. I would personally choose paladin, I like the button smashy style and as he said its kinda hard to fuck up with prot paladin. But thats totally my opinion.
*****
Good feedback. Thank you : )
After playing WoW for 12 years an never tanking, I'm really enjoying tanking as a Vengence DH. i dont know that i could go back to not having double jump and double leap.
one is very mobile the other is not so much haha
Try watching the video
BM Best.... Have you seen the cooldowns and things we have to chose from as talents... Followed preach for a long time but never have I had such complete opposite opinions to him on a video.
Well. Had already picked Brewmaster to tank legion, it's just so elegant when compared to the other options. Great vid preach.
I like that I main monk for legion, exactly because of this reason - you have to play monk right. It really feels that the skill and fun cap is a little more higher then just numbers or safety of most other classes. But from the other side even I know my class is the not brain dead class, it is not a best choice for RL. Progression in games is not about how fun it is to play your class - the fun comes just from progress. So all op/safe classes will be higher in this list of picking for hard content. For me monk will be a competitive in dps/heal, but tank is just too stressful for me as a healer who has to heal a tank.
Preacher, my heart!
To be honest though i do not think everyone wants to think about eight things at once, for example i have aspergers syndrome any more than three decisions simultaneously and my brain melts i just dont have the capacity to do anymore, so im quite glad that some classes dont require too much thought.
The TV...cannot unsee why did you do this to me preach
i love how every time you say Keg Smash the caption simply writes Cake Smash. Monk fantasy is real
There is a scratch on the TV on the left, in the bottom corner... Cannot unsee.
Was not expecting Brewmaster to be at #1. I really love the tank but many people were saying that it wouldn't be as viable; I'm glad.
Nice to know where the tanks stand for raiding, but what about soloing? For doing old MoP or (possibly) even WoD content solo, who do you think is best? Is that still blood dk? Seems like guardian druid and vengeance dh might be closing the gap. Maybe even the new affliction locks.
When is the next transmog competition? It was suppoused to be at the end of Wod right? I can't wait for it! :D
While the Prot Warrior base is a bit boring I think it gets pretty good if you get the Vengence and Heavy Repercussions talents which puts emphasis on a lot more buttons without throwing the class on its head round it out with the Ultimatum talent to help a bit with resource starvation and I think it works pretty well
Completely agree with you. Ultimatum+vengeance on prot gives it more depth and skill cap than any other tank. It feels like preach did not really optimise hos rotations as brm can get bank 1 charge of purity with no cost, that makes it super trivial.
i am hoping fury warriors are viable at 110 cause i am just having a blast playing my fury warrior. i'll eventually tank and hopefully prot warrior is acceptable in raids but right now
fury all day every day and having a blast. but i do look forward to my shadow priest
***** that is not much different than any other rotation
especially since my other choice was my paladin, and ret is so damn boring.
I got rid of that stupid filler ability that fury warriors have: can't even remember what it was called because it was so damn boring.
Whirlwind all day now baby!
***** well furious slash you throw in when you can single target
Great video. What is the background music you use in all these videos?
The tanks for my raid team are a Blood Death Knight and a Guardian Druid.
I have played the same Blood Elf pally tank since BC and will continue to do so, but I think that I might check out the brewmaster now.
Hey preach, love your content, just really curious about your ranking of DK. I understand these lists are highly subjective, but that's why i ask of your opinion and reasoning. Why is it a DK is ranked so high when their only core form of tanking gameplay comes from pressing one button for a stale buff (boneshield) i have mained a DK for a long time, but i much prefer the old style and when people say the new Blood is fun, i simpley dont understand. Yes they have blood mirror, but thats one 8 second DR while every other spec seems to have so many options. Thanks for your time :)
Is a Blood DK a suitable offtank with a protection warrior? I've only been DK as my "main alt" before so this is the first time actually doing my main raiding as a tank so I'm unfamiliar with combinations etc. I doubt I'd change since I adore Blood DK but you know, it's good to know if I'm dragging people down with my choice or not.
Great vid preach! I wanna se a main "mage" vid with some hype and tips !
So what I've gotten from these is just opinions about the gameplay (rotations and cooldowns) of each class and their specs from these comparison videos. I'm not saying I dont like them or disagree with anything in these, cept maybe Blood DK being fun at all, but I was looking for more of an actual comparison on how well the new class/spec changes perform against each other in raids (Heroic and Mythic only).
Unless he's done these already, then I'll just go watch those, about the hard numbers in terms of damage mitigated/healing/dps.
Gratz for this Preacher. Having watched this and tbh all of your Legion uploads I get the impression that the "art of tanking" is now a lossed skill, as with healing and DPS its has all become very consolely, no more than four buttons to press and a powerup every now and again. Seriously though do you see the end game raiding and mythic+ beening only for the few as it was in vanilla, or do you see a lot more people doing end game raiding in Legion?, if you answer is for the latter, do you see this as the game beening "dumbed down"?
Looking forward to your adventures in Legion, best of luck and good RNG to you and your fellow guidies
I play Guardian Druid since Start of MoP and i will stay with the class, i like the changes they did and i hope Mythic Raiding will be nice in Legion.
I've found that using the vengeance talent for prot warrior makes the spec a helluva lot more fun and engaging
I'm still weighing wether I should get into Legion or not. Haven't played since Cata.
Just watching this back with the state of tanks in bfa makes me sad man, dk's are currently in the position dh was in on the legion beta, and the cool thing about brewmaster which is managing your brew charges is gone because of how quickly you get them back now, and instead they have turned into an overpowered damage soaker with more brew charges than you can possibly use, how is it a thing that you can have 100% uptime on ironskin and still have charges left to purify?
You were on hiatus! Welcome back man, thanks for the video. I missed that video you posted and took down immediately, what was the drama about?
this is one of those videos where your typical decision process around fun is a poor, poor choce. any tank player worth anything wants to feel lke they are contributing and not a drag to their raid or group of friends. it doesnt matter if the playstyle is fun, it needs to work and let you TANK. these videos need to evaluate actual performance and not some stupid anecdotal information like how they feel.
Well that depends on your definition of fun. If you think that being the best tank of your guild is the fun part of tanking, then by all means choose that class. However, a lot of people see this as a game, and play to have fun; so a video like this would be helpful to those players.
My point is: if this video doesn't satisfy your personal means, it doesn't mean it does not satisfy someone else's.
If you where in a guild in which performance of a tank is that vital to you, you would be experienced as a tank in a high end guild where you could form your opinion based on performance, such as myself. The type of video you described would appeal to a virtually non existent audience.
"any tank player worth anything wants to feel lke they are contributing and not a drag to their raid or group of friends."
Any tank player worth anything should have at least some knowledge about his role as a tank as well as positioning and mechanics so they ARE contributing regardless of what class they play. They could contribute that as a mage if they know what they're doing.
"it doesnt matter if the playstyle is fun, it needs to work and let you TANK."
Except that every tanking class is working and viable even if you don't know what you're doing most of the time.
If you just want the currently best performance of any given class or specc, I'd link you to one of Preachers earlier videos where he said that those classes at the top can be nerfed any time while those at the bottom can be buffed (but I don't know which video that was so there's no link). In that case you might choose whatever is "said" to be the strongest now, might not even know what you're doing and therefore perform subpar, only to be nerfed into an average but boring as hell tank.
Numbers and theorethical performance isn't everything. Especially in a game.
Did you even watch the video? He discusses their strength for half of them. He says both Protection Pally and War are really good but Vengeance is meh.
yes, doesn't change the fact his ranking is based purely on his subjective "feel" theme
I can't wait to get back into the game. I'm just a little freaked out since I haven't played since Mist of Panderia. I love my Warrior so I'll stick with him for now.
Based on what I've played on live so far I could not agree more with this list, brewmaster is soo good, never really focussed on a monk in the past, I leveled one but never did much with her, this time around I think I'll play her much more.
Started maining a Brewmaster monk in late WoD. No regrets :D
Not sure why this was recommended now, but it was a nice walk down memory lane
Feel my pain Preach. I just started playing a few months ago for the first time since cata. Thought to myself "I've always wanted a paladin" I ended up having 2 max lvl paladins as my only max lvl characters, and thought I was pretty happy. Then the pre-patch hit. Not going to play those anymore. Maybe holy.
during the prepatch im currently
bringing my toons to ilvl 700 because i stopped playing WoD just after Blackrock
then once legion hits i'll have 2 classes 110 asap
the first being the one i enjoy the rotations on and will be my main
and a DH who i will be leveling with my friend to 110 when we can