Edit: Short response to all the senseless and mindless "No one is saying that" type comments: ua-cam.com/video/KS_cm71ytL4/v-deo.htmlsi=Cm3CDDadjwnPUH9Z Watch the FULL video and argue with arguments rather than loud words. And if you're not like the fans in the video, then SURPRISE, IT'S NOT TARGETING YOU. . . The description is important, and try to understand the points before starting up a fight in the comments. And if you wanna discuss some stuff formally, the comments are open.
I love thinking about the player-game design relationships so this was a very fun watch for me and I loved writing long, self-aggrandizing/indulgent comments about it. Thanks! (I hope you read my comments and respond if you feel like it too, *in the event there's anything up with it)
@@WaterCursor51I like the chemistry of your comment. The sentences compliment the grammar, and the grammar compliments the punctuation in a very beautiful way. By far, my favorite arc was the sarcasm. Truly awesome storytelling on your end. Let me know what you think about my reply above. Thanks!
@@laffycade3151 it is just hipsterism lol, bordering on gatekeeping the franchise. The points made in this video boil down to "people love DMC so much that they're sad the aspects which make DMC great are not present in other games." And that's understandable, really, in this modern landscape where games are built for profit instead of passion.
It's a tale as old as time. The more someone praises a game - the more they suck at actually playing it. The best DMC players I've known don't even consider DMC their top game.
@@MarinetteDupainCheng564 half skills of dante are uronic are useless,like firework only geting use for dante boss fight because everyone prefer use the sword to create knowback .
I pretty much agree with most of your points but there are also a few things that I dont agree with. I dont think dmc is really about efficiency until dmd, the games are usually about player expression which is why the game encourages u to use different moves, weapons, and style. Combos can be under expression so I get why some people can whine and cry about some of the enemies to an extent, but I also think dealing with specific enemies in one way doesnt necessarily make them good in some of the dmc games (or in this niche little sub genre we have) if they have u sitting around doing nothing or dont allow you to be expressive to some extent. Blitz, the fallen, soul eater, infected chimera, and a ton of other enemies in the series are bad because they either have u sitting around or they have u going up against a specific gimmick on every playthrough that isnt fun and doesnt allow for much player expression or creativity. Not sayin they need to be combo food though because there are definitely enemies that arent that are really fun. Everything else is pretty on point to me. Im glad you made this because it really has been getting annoying seeing ppl put dmc5 on this and expecting every game to follow its design choices. hope this vid blows up brother, you deserve it.
Yo BeeG. Big love. The whole 'Self Expression' talk I get. But I'm lost with the part where you daid "unless it's DMD". Isn't that the most focused on difficulty of the game (A.K.A: THE difficulty)? Isn't the hardest difficulty of action games what defines them? That's where the enemy aggro is at its truest. The enemy management, too. As for the rest, I don't understand how the gimmicky enemies only have one way. I SAY Blitz can be this and that, but believe it or not, I left out some other ways you could deal with them. Sharks getting shot out with Charge Shots? Well, skillful enough? Bait them to come out and hit them with the Lucifer clap thing (whatever it's called). If the hardest difficulty requires efficiency, then it is what it is. Self expression is a helluva drug. I like doing that, but only when knowing what I'm doing. KNOWING I'm in control (so basically, after all the enemy management, prioritization, elimination, and such). Fallen? Why is this enemy bad? Doesn't every action game have 'that one enemy' that requires chipping? Make the chipping fun, then. Set them up with A&R's hidden BIG DAH MIJ tecc. The whole 'Style - Backwards style mash' for them to "get rekt". Sky's the limit. Some enemies are not good. I flat out hate them. Every game has atleast one or two opps that I just don't like. It's fair if you dislike enemies. I'm just saying, some enemies (like Blitz) have way too much depth to be disliked just becuz you can't style'em, or that the efficiency approach is limited (it's not. RG cancels, up close shotty damage, Pandora opening, Lucifer approach, and Drive setups are SOME that I can mention). The fact that Blitz switches up your moment to moment encounter approach, the fact that it attacks all its comrades, the fact that it rises up the danger in the encounter... just awesome. You don't think DMC is about efficiency until DMD? Congrats. That's every game. Horsing around is achieved in every game in lesser difficulty options. It's just that hardest difficulties are the true above all.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 As far as the highest difficulty argument I can see what you're saying when its other action games but itsuno has talked before about how he wants the lower difficulties (mainy son of sparda or very hard) to be a sort of sandbox for players and dmd to be something you actually have to play efficiently in. Even dmc5, the easiest dmc is like this to some extent despite most of the enemies being combo food. As for the bad enemies argument you can definitely deal with blitz, in different ways but its very limited since blitz punishes you for using mostly physical attacks. I saw your friends video as well and some of the tech are very specific things that the average player wouldnt know about.Its why i prefer dmc5's version of it. Same idea but you can do things like learn its parry timings or attack when its combo is finished. As for the fallen i really dont understand your defense of it. it phases through walls and can hit you off screen when you cant reach it with any of your moves, regardless of "chip damage". All the enemies im complaining about are ones where you just sit and do nothing until you can hit them or you have to use a certain playstyle to beat them. I get where youre coming from with these points but you also have to come in with the perspective of someone who isnt gonna use all these super high level tools to beat the enemies that are there. You even said that most people come in with the idea that they should be able to do combos in every game even when theyre not at the level of the players that theyre watching. I think the same statement can and should be applied to some of the bad enemies that people bring up when theyre not at the level to do stuff like "royal guard shot gun cancel" blitz to kill him. All assessment of bad enemy design kinda goes out of the window when you go "well you coulda just done the most high level thing you didnt know about"
@@BeeGBoss >Itsuno That's interesting. Didn't know he said that. Just going with a big rule of action games and how the highest difficulty is the truest way. And if he said that, then as I said, that's nearly every action game. >Prefers DMC5 I suppose you mean Fury. What an enemy that is, right? I love Fury a bit more than Blitz, too. But you do realize he *is* the same philosophy as Blitz. A bit toned down, but same approach. Perhaps not as much of a threat, but it is the same way of handling. You attack him when the game says "attack now". >Fallen >Me defending them It stems from a simple perspective, BeeG. Action games have brutes that require chipping. It just is what it is. Them going through walls is one of my favorite aspect. Becuz you actually have to move to a right position to fight them now (where they don't phase into somewhere unfavorable). They circle around you and the gimmick is to stay close to them as much as possible (you attack AS they're attacking **and missing** you, but you can also vary your attacks). They switch up the momentum from the average encounter. The atmosphere of the whole encounter switches. >Certain play style to beat them If you want every play style to work on every enemy, then why isn't every enemy one of the 7 sins in DMC3? And how are you 'sitting and doing nothing' against Blitz? Aren't you supposed to position yourself correctly all the time? Aim for the other enemies and leave him for last? Avoid him being a wholeass stage hazard with his deadly attacks? And finding openings for a shotgun blast up close? It goes the same for others. You're never *truly* doing nothing. Fallen? You're supposed to keep close until they do their helicopter cyclonic attack. You CAN attack your way into that safe zone if you want. Sky's the limit. Anticipating an attack is also something you do. You're taking this as a dreamlike 1v1 situation where you and the Fallen (or any other enemy for that matter) are alone in the Void? Cuz that's not how you encounter them in the game's campaign or BP (except for *maybe* the first time when you meet them). >Where I'm coming from BeeG. Big dawg. Brother. First playthroughs are one thing. You play however you want. Now going into them thinking you're SUPPOSED to cambaw cuhrayzee? That's another thing. I am... NOT asking people to know about something so extreme, like RG Gilga cancels on Blitz's armor, no. That's unrealistic. Leave that for mastery work way later. For now? You're early into this game. A normal mindset would've gone like "Okay. How do I solve this enemy's puzzle? Oh. Shotgun works from up close the same way Charge Shots worked with Nero from afar." A 'stylish cambaw' mindset would go "Not this annoying enemy again" rather than pinning with Lucifer instead to just find out how convenient the enemy is (not easy. Convenient). When Dante shows a video with 'convenient' strats that can be done by anybody, that's one thing. When you watch Donguri who's OVERMASTERED the game, do some multiversal shit to an enemy (mostly unintended and obscure strats), that's another thing. RG Gilga Cancels on Blitz? A hard obscure strat. Close by Shotgun shots? Is that even a strat? Nope. That's a convenient on the nose approach. >You coulda No. Not *coulda.* Not THAT past tense. You *COULD* try X. We're talking in the now. Someone comes out of a bad experience? It's not all lost. What's stopping them from going back to the game (and potentially LOVING the thing they hated **like what happened to me with DMC4)? I had that "DMC4 journey" back in the days of old. When I thought learning and mastering the game was to style, style, style, and style. It's all documented in the oldest vids of my channel. Hilarious! Funny display of trying to mimic stuff that only a guy who knows the game does (for fun and goofing around). Blitz sucks? You can't style? Here's the solution? Don't like the solution? Video above. Nothing's lost on one's way to mastery. You could simply... turn the console on again and play again. If one comes out of a game hating something about it, then gets convinced of a way to bypass the problem, they CAN ideally turn the console (sorry for assuming the platform. PC, whatever) and the game on again. Failure and despising something is all a part in learning. I remember getting into MGR and something just WOULD. NOT. CLICK. I later learned how to combat it all, leading to me falling in love with the game more and more. A combat guide is up on the channel now. I FORCED it to click. Same with DMC4. I hated DMC4's enemies the same way back then. Same story. Down to the last bit of detail. You're a guy that knows all this. You know everything I just spoke of. But what about the people just getting into DMC4? Or DMC as a whole.
@@starbirds007 >not understanding ''Stylish is not the name of hack n slash games'' meaning doing CUHRAYZEE combos and being SUPAH STYLISH is not what hack n slash are about, GODDAMNIT WHAT THE HELL IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!
Its sad to see how 90% of the dmc subreddit doesn’t even want to watch your video and just insult you. That shows how toxic the dmc community actually can be. You were right with absolutely everything you said and you still get hated for it. The Injustice is insane
It's not sad. Eventually they will watch it. And if they don't, you can't save everybody. Mfers are out here thinking I'm literally going against the entire fanbase. How am I to do that when I myself am a PART OF THE FANBASE? They even read the title wrong most of them. And they didn’t stop there. They read the title wrong AND went with it.
Devil May Cry 1 is genuinely underrated. It might not have the flashiest combos but it doesn’t need them it has other things that it does far better then the rest of the franchise like aesthetic and level design but younger dmc fans don’t care for it simply because it’s not as flashy as dmc5. I’m so glad your giving it the credit it deserves
DMC 3 has better level design and aesthetics. The aesthetics argument is actually very subjective. You're basically saying a is better than b because you feel like you like a better. Generally, people that say DMC 1 is better because of a couple annoying DMC 3 enemies (that are pretty easy to deal with actually) and so-called "atmosphere" are just delusional and want to feel unique and stand out from the crowd by overpraising a less popular thing just because the other thing gets too much praise.
Dude i got into DMC like last year and while DMC1 wasn't as fast-paced as 3 was, i absolutely fucking love the vibe DMC1 has, the Castle OST is my favorite track from the entire series, the camera angles, the weapon-get animations, the menus... it drew me in like a magnet.
@@evgenyomeginwrong as hell playing the series since i was 4 years old when DMC3 came out i still think DMC1 is the most unique of all DMC game its pure old school Capcom right there
@@evgenyomegin wrong as hell playing the series since i was 4 years old when DMC3 came out i still think DMC1 is the most unique of all DMC game its pure old school Capcom right there
True. Everytime I play dark souls I have to just stop because there is no Dante. I then immediately feel compelled to drop a negative review on steam talking about how shallow and easy the game is. I then move to social media to shit out 200 tweets on why DMC will always be king. I can't work a single day of my job without planning out DMC combos in my head. Please delete video I feel called out.
@@DionPanday Funner fact numero 2, DMC 3 was also inspired by Dark Souls Berserk, sword of the Guts' rage on the Dreamcast. That game is a sequel to Pong on the pong machine from the 1970s which is a rip off of board games which were invented by anime. Also DMC 2 invented anime which lead to the great DmC: Angel May Cry mode in Bayonetta, which lead to Hideki Kamiya sueing Elon Musk for removing the block button on twitter since Kamiya pressed block too many times on people sending silly pictures to him
I see this a lot with Nioh 2 fans. They think it's the best game ever, but see the games after it, like Stranger of Paradise and Rise of the Ronin as inferior due to not being as complex. Which is ironic cause Nioh itself is just a grounded version of Ninja Gaiden.
DMC 3 is really misunderstood by alot of people, the game allow you freedom in limitation, without limitation there is no real freedom, for alot of people they think 2 weapon is limited, for me its good because its allow for character build, and you actually think what the best strat you can use in every stage in the game because different stage has different efficient build and because of that DMC 3 is balance and challenging game. I see DMC 3 not as combo simulator game but as 3D beat em up game with extra content
The ammount of funny stuff I can do in DMC3 is *chef's kiss*. I can attack Dullahans from the front with RoyalRelease, pulling Abyss in with KalinaAnn causes them to jump away from you, the putting down animation of Hysteric deals damage, I can heal myself on the spinning blades using Ultimate(lvl3 RG move), Vergil taunts alongside us during the 2nd half of the Arkham fight, ect. Basically DMC3 allows the player to do much more than just juggling 5-7 enemy types out of 16 non-boss enemies(no boss can be launched as far as I know).
@@Amatt0 true, DMC 3 is more than juggling enemies, its a game with excellent game design and dev trying to give freedom but still in limit to balance every single aspect of the game, some enemies cant be juggled it mean normal method cant be use again them, so its encourage players to actually think how to deal with them just like game design in beat em up
I think this is a pretty solid video that has a lot of points that mirror how I feel about the DMC fanbase in a lot of areas. But one thing I wanna point out is the "There was no combo genre until DMC5 existed" point. I'm not sure if I agree with it entirely. While it's true that DMC1 isn't about comboing I would argue that DMC3's approach to combat emphasizes style and combo variety due to the way that the style meter functions as well as the devs even acknowledging the fanbase that were making combo videos way back in 2005 after DMC3: Dante's Awakening. They did this by including a video called "Crazy Gameplay" that you unlock within the extra's content. I'd like to believe that the main point of DMC3 is to play in your own way and be expressive about it, which is why you're given a lot of weapons and styles throughout each game. I wouldn't say there was an entire genre strictly about combos back then but there was definitely some form of style acknowledgment from the DMC devs.
Yo Chase. Thanks for viewing the video and sharing your thoughts about it. I guess the point I was making was comboing the way DMC5 allows. As I do show demos later in the video we're under, where I also explain that DMC3 *DOES* allow for amazing combo showcase, but absolutely NOTHING like the way people gas it. It's not even a shot at DMC3 (shown by how much I praise it and even would understand if someone had it as their absolute favorite thing of all time). DMC had combos back with DMC3, and I'm not over here saying "No one should be allowed to combo!". I even state in the video that you're free to do that, but learning the enemies and efficient tools is what comes first. People are viewing this as a DMC hate video (when it's not). It is what it is. Thanks for commenting.
>style meter is an incentive to styling (varying your combos) Valid, ever since DMC3 it was a thing, but you can still pull the sickest of combos and the game will hand a B or an A at you. The meter responds to that, no doubt, but it responds even greater to crowd control and high dmg, which is even more emphasized by crazy combos and how they interact with the meter. Drive, dance, million stabs, tempest, all of these affect the meter way better than combos, same with commitment multi hits attacks. While the meter rewards variations, crowd control and dmg via multi hits is still the fastest way to do, which happens to be efficient. >combos were a thing since 3, combo mada in the gallery Obviously was part of DMC since 3, no game reaches DMC in terms of pure combo creativity, bayonetta is a close 2nd id say, but DMC rules this bit. Tho i wont say it was for the entire experience, not even on normal, most DMC3 combo MADs are in M2 or M7 in the summoners arena, most enemies on DMD wont allow that, on VH it is decently reasonable to combo most of them if you're good. Combos were always a huge part of DMC since DMC3, but it was never infront due to enemy design, stylish efficiency was always the main meal, even if no game comes close to DMC's (4, reboot and 5) combo potential.
@@DanteTMed2 I wasn't implying it's the focus of DMC3, but it's part of the design. Even with crazy combos, you can't repeat the same one over and over again, which is why I say "style and combo variety". DMC in general nudges the player to use different moves instead of only one. Efficiency in DMC3 cannot exist without variety and vice versa if you want to get S ranks.
As someone who played dmc5 nearly 15 times and played most of the other games in the series, damn he got a point Also i'd like to point out that the dmc5 player base really likes to hate on V's gameplay for the same reason they hate on other games' gameplay, while V is actually the most unique addition to the game imo Also with dmc5 being a void simulator, this statement really shines when you compare other parts of them game outside combat to other games, like the level traversal, the platforming, the level design
@@elexterminadordedemonios4320 This. Most of the dislike towards V stems from exactly that. I like playing as V, but he is not void of criticism. As enemies have WAY too much HP on DMD and they didn’t tweak it for V.
Well to be real with I can't help but agree with most of the points made in this video I'm not gonna lie a problem that I do have with alot of the Fandom on twitter is that they all want every game to be Devil May Cry even when it comes to hack n slash and every other video game with a combat system
Funny enough, I know there's gonna be a monkey's paw effect from this since that's how franchises work. DMC 5 was super successful so Capcom will make more low effort DMC cash ins ala. DMC PoC and since Itsuno is gone, he will not be supervising whatever they come out with next of course.
@@WaterCursor51 That's another Dark fate for the franchise I want it to continue but in high quality not like assasins creed where it becomes a cash grab
Uhm devil may cry fan here and I’ll agree that some “dmc fans” say this crap about Devil may cry is better then GOW, NG, Bayo etc. and unfortunately most that say this is now most are the new “dmc fans”(dmc5 newcomers) that spread this crap it’s bizarre but it happens.
I think the internet is convinced that if a game doesn't have like 500 combos it is completely mindless and trash. I moved away from 2D beat em ups like Streets of Rage 2 because of this mindset, but now I love those games again because I got rid of this limiting mindset.
@@thebrodator it is indeed such a limited mindset that ruined so many games for me Growing up as a gow fan, seeing all the hate spewed by the dmc fans made me insecure about the combat system. Only as i grew up and heard various interesting opinions and analysis did i learn to better appreciate different combat systems instead of limiting to dmc combat and holding it on the pedestal
@@DragoonCenten I am referring to Streets of Rage 2, I actually haven't played Streets of Rage 4 yet (I would like to try it though). In retrospect I should have probably made it more clear
Streets of rage 2 is amazing. Also, I really recommend fight n rage, one of the best beat em ups in my opinion (although this one has combos, they are closer to a fighting game than dmc combos, where they are much more strict and specific)
This happened with the DOOM and Ultrakill fan bases am I fan of DOOM and especially the 2 new games but I get Ultrakill fan boys telling me DOOM isn't as good as Ultrakill because it's not as stylish.
It can be stylish if your good, it just has the extra challenge of ammo management whereas ultrakill is about sending nukes at your enemies and going ballistic without having to worry about ammo so you can do those insane ballistic combos
@@NamelessCrusad3r yes it definitely can but Ultrakill and DOOM are going for two different feels Ultrakill is stylish and free form DOOM is more about efficient brutality. Both are good games but for different reasons.
@@NamelessCrusad3rNah. I have 300 Hours on Doom Eternal and like 60 on UltraKill. DE is one of my favorite game of All time. The ammo management of Doom eternal is a non issue if you are constantly wrapon switching (And have the upgrades). It takes some practice, but doing pb-something else loop is much more mindless then what you need for Ultrakill. Note that I'm not saying that Ultrakill is better. Just has a higher skill cealing. Uktrakill strats are hard to perform by themselves and to be able to rocket ride and coin deflect mid combat with all the chaos consistently is something much harder then DE. Ultrakill is more complex. That doesn't make DE bad. Plus, the meathook is so fucking great it makes up the difference. Imo, It's better then Ultrakills grapling because you can swing and not just line movement. I fucking love it.
You have a point but I think you're being a bit uncharitable with DMC5. Most of the issues with DMC5 arise from abusing jump cancel, since enemies do a poor job at anti airing. if you don't abuse jump canceling the game becomes less boring since you engage with enemies more. So it's a balancing problem. But let's not pretend these other action games don't have huge balancing problems that simplify strategy too. Ninja Gaiden Razors Edge becomes boring when you abuse 360 scythe spam. Ninja Gaiden 2 is UT spam at high level, which isn't as interesting as having to use the full extent of your kit. The game becomes more one note when it becomes UT spam. Same with Ninja Gaiden Black. DMC4 does a better job with anti airing enemies but a decent amount still struggle to actually counter you really well while being 50 feet in the air. You mention how it's hard to do it with DMC4 Dante (which I don't think is a good defense for poor balancing) but also completely neglect how easy it is to do it with Nero by spamming snatch. A lot of character action games have terrible balancing similar to DMC5. I think it'd be more fair if you actually acknowledged the faults of the other games too instead of completely ignoring them and acting like DMC5 is the only one with a balancing problem here
The balancing problems are inevitable anyway since every problem in a game like that needs to have a solution unless the point of your game is to be unbeatable. When you know the solution to a problem, that's it dealt with. DMC 5 is going to feel very easy when you put thousands of hours into it. DMC 5 has crossed the threshold for the series into being noticeably overhyped in that sense since loads of people ignore that it gets boring after a hundred or so hours. You figure out how to do mad stuff abusing jump cancelling and have fun with that for a bit *THEN* you turn it off and start doing challenge runs and so on if you want. Thing is, DMC 5 is massively praised because of it's accessibility but some people either won't want to acknowledge that or instead they'll talk about it like it's a bad thing and that it's "pandering". We have this concept of "skill floor" and "skill ceiling" the devs for DMC 5 openly talked about lowering the floor; that can make reaching the ceilling feel less satisfying (since the floor and ceiling thing is a bad analogy, the ceiling stays in the same place). It's more like the challenge is a climb from bottom to top, there's a level of steepness to it to factor in as well as the point you start your journey. Not everybody comes at a game as a genre newbie who barely understands the controls. There are conventions and many people playing DMC 5 were very familiar with them so it felt patronising when the game came out and was easier to get into than 4 Game design is very difficult to juggle pleasing everybody, you piss off people with a weird superiority complex by making things easier to start for example but also people who like the experience of having their ass handed to them first for the catharsis of beating the game later. The latter might've gotten that experience playing DMC 3 for the first time when they were younger but don't get it from 5 and miss that even if they find juggling enemies at the height of the ceiling in DMC 5 fun (to some extent) Very long response but this is complicated - and fun to talk about for me.
DMC5 physics cater DmC and classic DMC4 into play, hence jump cancels and aerial attack are easier to pull off than DMC3/4 Everything is slowed down (but not close to DmC) Because the game is trying to appeal to all types of player of the genre, casual -> hardcore, and you can see the pattern on just even the difficulty options And I see why it is designed that way, obviously for more people to play it
DMC5 is certainly one with the MOST balancing issues. No one is saying other games don't have balancing problems. And your argument didn't exactly bring a solution to DMC5's pathetic enemies (which, btw, it's a HUGE thing if your enemy design is the main flaw of your game. That goes beyond "balancing issues", but whatever). Mine did. Turning off JC did the trick. What are you gonna do with JC on, NOT abuse it? What are we even doing at this point? I get self limitation. I do it in games that have totally broken stuff. I don't use Faust's Room Nuker attacks or any attack of the Faust besides some balanced ones (The Snatch).
You also brought up how DMC4 has some enemies that allow you to juggle high in the air, but didn't mention how much harder that it is when compared to DMC5. Both in the sense that you have to open up enemies, in the sense that you don't have AS MUCH easy launchers, in the sense that JC is harder, and in the sense that enemies either air escape (a lot of them do) or other enemies below intercept.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 That's what's tricky about criticizing these action games. A bunch of them are so poorly balanced that you have to do self imposed challenges to have more fun with them. If I played Ninja Gaiden to the point where I can route UT spams then is the game not good either? Why would I use anything else when UT spam is much more efficient. NG is funny in that regard the games have a ton of moves but most of them are either insanely situational or completely useless, so you'll fall back to a small but very versatile set of core moves. On MN you just plain don't have time to use a lot of the fancier moves and will just stick to good short combos and utility moves like on landing ones, 360 moves, UT spam, sometimes a shuriken. A large chunk of your toolkit ends up ignored and the game becomes less interesting if I play for efficiency. Should I too NOT abuse them? Same with DMC5 once you get good enough and buy enemy step. It feels to me that we're all just messing around and not realizing a lot of these games end up being not as well thought out once you find optimal efficient strats. Its a similar issue that DMC5 has
This is definitely more of a niche thing that I’m sure annoys some people, but ultimately has not much of a broader impact. The REAL problem with this kinda thing is with the Souls games, the amount of glazers surrounding them are genuinely the reason we aren’t getting great character action games like we used to. That’s part of the reason people love DMC5 so much as well, hack n slashes have felt like a dying breed for a while, since literally everything is a souls-like now.
The reason is because souls likes are much easier to make and less complex for people to get into. Instead of learning character's moveset, playing around with canceling and different mechanics, people tend to go for the amount of content and more popular art direction whereas DMC is stuck to 20 missions per game and release cycle being 10+ years.
The Souls-like problem is a whole other subject. And you're right. It IS a bigger problem than the one I'm talking about. Still tho, the above had to be cleared up.
@DANAR-ne3cn yes it's true especially twitter folk they got confused when I told them that not every game that has a light and heavy attacks and a dodge button are soulslike like bruh they forget that souls are generally a sub genre in the action RPG genre
@@lightmohamed5700if every game that has health/mana(magic)/light-heavy attacks/dodges-rolls then God of war is souls like... Tell them this next time and see them understand that action rpg and souls like games are different... And if they still don't understand let them play only from soft games... Their loss
LMAO, 100%. What frustrates me is that FromSoft fans tend to overlook both the aspects of other amazing games because they succeed in ways that Soulsborne does not (for example, action game franchises). Even in the realm of Soulslikes, I think that Nioh 2 does quite a few things better than the Souls franchise (and quite a few things worse) that I often see many Souls fans overlook because they're just treating it as another Dark Souls entry rather than its own thing that takes influence from it. Sadly, I think that due to FromSoft games' fanbase, Nioh 2 is seen as "like Dark Souls, but..." instead of just another game with its own strengths, weaknesses, and goals. Not to mention, many "Soulsborne veterans" often use having played the games (which honestly are not all that hard anyways) as ammunition to avoid being criticized for not properly learning another game's mechanics which is comically frustrating. "It's not like Dark Souls/DMC/etc." is also kind of a non-criticism too. I think it's fair to point out where one game falls short and another does something better, that is fundamentally different from what I outlined above. This sort of mentality kills innovation within the industry. Additionally, it prevents the person making that criticism from branching out and learning to appreciate different styles or aspects of games which is severely limiting for them.
I have two things to say: 1) jump canceling won't save you from fury in Dmc5, you have to deal with him first to fight freely. 2) dealing with Dmc4 enemies isn't straight forward like most Dmc3 enemies which confused me and a good chunk of the fans, and it's much harder to see enemy attacks in Dmc4 than in Dmc3.
The first point gets me to talk about something, and it's that I adore some enemies in 5. Fury, Judeca (spawner), Behemoth, fat guys with axes, and Nobodies are awesome enemies. Some of the above can still fall victim to air camping, but especially not Fury. Fury is top tier enemy design for me. He switches up the gameplay SO well. Truly fantastic, yes. I agree. I, however, did not understand your point regarding DMC4 enemies. What exactly is the issue? If you're talking stage 40+ in BP, then I get it. The rest? DMC4 does a nice job with its art style, where things are shiny and pop up clearly.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 I was talking mostly about trying to royal guard enemies in dmc4 which I found harder than dmc3 and dmc5 because enemies Don't telegraph their attacks as well, at least that was my experience.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 Hell yeah, another Fury lover. I love Fury so much, they're easily the best enemy in the game (the bar isn't high, but still), they're like Blitz, but better.
@@Cyfernofor me DMC 5 is the hardest to do royal guard simply because the enemy attacks are SO SLOW and most of them are combo dummies so you're not really encouraged to use Royal Guard. Compare that to DMC 4 where the enemies/bosses are aggresive, have fast attacks, AND anti air attacks that you have to dodge. DMC 3 also has enemies that do really fast charging attacks (and also Hell Vanguards who can parry your attacks).
I loved the video, you have great points and arguments and I agree with many of them, but I also disagree with some. 5:24 You are right in parts, especially in relation to DMC 1, but in the case of DMC 3, under the direction of itsuno DMC started to follow a style similar to that of fighting games mixed with what we saw in DMC 1. One of the things that you release in the gallery along with concept arts is literally a combo video made by the developers, they even show jump cancel and DT explosion in the video. After I saw this on the PS2 I started experimenting more with the game's combat, I even started using quicksilver and doppelganger. 10:43 I agree with this. My opinions regarding mods are quite controversial, not only for DMC, but for other games as well. I literally die inside whenever I see someone saying that Skyrim is unplayable without mods. In the case of DMC, using mods to change skins or graphical improvements doesn't bother me, but in the case of the style switcher it's complicated. I argue that DMC 3 should have style and we received it but unfortunately only on the Switch. And they did a great job, you have the option of playing the vanilla game or using the style switcher, and honestly, I have a lot more fun with style switching, things that I rarely use, like gunslinger, are much better to use without having to sacrifice part of the arsenal. Going back to the mods, I don't like that in the PC style switcher mod you have access to quicksilver and doppelganger while using another style. In DMC 5 mods, then, if I see in a video the mod that transforms Dante's aerial taunt into quicksilver or the darkslayer mod, I immediately drop it from the video. Other things like changing devil breakers at will is something that goes against what the game wants. One of my favorite things about DMC is how they manage to express the characters' personalities through their gameplay, and Nero destroying his arms is literally a demonstration of his explosive personality. And also, Devil breakers being consumable was one of the best things they ever did because it eliminates one of the biggest problems that DMC, and other hack n slash had, which is that the orbs are useless when you buy everything. Another thing, the mod that lets you play with any character in any mission. THERE IS A REASON why this wasn't implemented in the game. One of the main criticisms of DMC 4 is that you played with Dante in Nero's missions, if that's a problem there, why do you want that again in 5? Another thing, Nero has the graple system, how are you going to get through these parts with Dante or V if they weren't planned for this part. Another thing is that if you use this mod in mission 4, you can hitkill Nidhogg using Dante, so this alone shows why this was not included in the game. 14:08 As I said before, I advocate changing styles and changing weapons in DMC 3. Let's say you're playing on very hard/DMD and you made a specific set up for an encounter in the mission, it could be at the end or the beginning, and then You find yourself in a room with an enigma. You don't have swordmaster to use sword pierce or you're not equipped with spiral/Kalina ann to knock back them, so good luck trying to kill them while they run away whenever you get close, and even when you're attacking, your life is melted away by the fucking red spears that they charge without paying attention to your attacks, and it is unpredictable when they will shoot. What? You're facing the fallen and you don't have any weapon with a good air attack without swordmaster, patience to face these shitty enemies that keep moving away from you and passing through walls. 17:12 Something I loved that you brought up, the whole "Dante wasn't planned to be in DMC 4" "DMC 4 is a Nero game" "enemies weren't designed for Dante" thing. Something I think about, and I mention another point that you bring up later is the grab mechanic. People are held hostage by the devil bringer and when they go for a character that doesn't have a button that makes the game play itself they think it's bad. I add this to other hack slash that use this mechanic. i think tha the grab mechaninc helped propagate the whole "button mash" argument for HAS games.. Dante is my favorite character in any action game precisely because he doesn't have grabs. 20:14 something that chaser tech mentioned in his video and I completely agree 25:28 I disagree a lot with this. I've seen a lot of videos of people doing combos in DMC 3 without mods and without a trainer or in a controlled environment, that's exactly where "freestyle" came from. I recommend you watch some videos of the DarkSlayer9320 channel. In the end, I play a game by its own rules. I agree that some DMC fans have this mistaken view of other action games, and as I said, I agree with some of youe arguments. Something I would say is the "main" subject of the video, style vs efficiency. As I said in my first topic, DMC 3 and 4 at least are the perfect mix of the two. Paraphasing another video I saw, in Devil May Cry, style is efficiency. The game gives you the tools and you choose what to do with them. Do you want efficiency, style, both? your choice. Sorry for any English mistakes. I'm better at listening than speaking/writing.
Love this comment, most thorough and thoughtful response out the ones I've seen. I agree; although I don't view the modding and opening up games to an absurd level as too big of a problem though. I do take issue with people saying shit about "DMC 3 is unplayable without style switcher DDMK" since it's just false and will lead to people installing DDMK for a first playthrough when that's totally not necessary at all. Mods like DDMK are just for satisfying people's curiosity about what style switching and all weapons at once is like in DMC 3, nothing wrong with having fun with that in any single player game. Bethesda games are pretty different when it comes to modding because you are *beyond* spoiled for choice. Skyrim isn't literally unplayable without mods, it's just that it's very boring to a lot of people without them and myself included. I don't even like Skyrim that much more with mods lol Mods/romhacks can make the game harder, easier, add QoL, rebalance, what these things are really is pretty subjective. I love to have mods on DMC 5 because I'm not satisfied with the recolours and I like using mods to have alternate skins for the characters to have a wider variety to look at. Some mods for DMC 5 change the gameplay a lot, having access to those types of mods opens up the game in ways that make it fun for people who struggle to find fun in the flaws presented by games like this sometimes. Skyrim wouldn't have it's staying power without mods that can also alter gameplay. I like Fallout NV/TTW mods a whole lot for that reason too! PC gaming has so many factors to it these days and it's a true privilege to have access to so many great games coming out *AND* fan translations of old games so few got to play before. It's awesome!
Combos are a core part of DMC's identity but it's not everything and most Devil May Cry games aren't just gonna hand you stylish combos, I do think you're downplaying the potential for combos in vanilla DMC3, swordmaster was made for people who liked air combos in marvel vs Capcom/anime fighters even on DMD, you can create some really unique and cool combos if you take the time to learn and get good, I do agree with most of your takes here, Ninja Gaiden isn't one of the greatest games ever made because it's the closest to capturing Devil May Cry's "stylish magic" or whatever, it's peak because it's doing something else entirely and nailing it, I would also partially blame the term "character action" for making people think that every action game needs DMC jump cancel combos because it erroneously insists that these games are related and you should expect similar things from all of them, with the only qualification for this subgenre being "can you make a combo video with it"
I really feel you. As someone who plays D3nte with Gunslinger I’m tired of always hearing everyone saying it’s the most useless style in the game because “the game wasn’t meant to be focusing on guns” who decided that 😂😂😂 the most efficient strategy in DMC1 was spamming the grenade gun and then spam air raid , but these people convinced themselves DMC can only be played with sword combos that they don’t even realize the point of gunslinger is the charge shot they’re always saying “gunslinger is the same as swordsmaster but with guns which makes it useless” which is simply not true 😭😭 so many sections and enemies in the game that they hate could’ve been easily beaten with gunslinger but they’ll never try it because they want their rebellion air combo so bad
I feel you. Doing a revolver with Cerberus on an enemy while holding the shoot button, jump canceling halfway and letting go of the shoot button to release a BARRAGE of charged shots never gets old. Or Wild Stomp. Or the things you can do with the Sniper. The styles have a lot of depth to stand out on their own.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 yeah sadly in every video covering dmc3 I’ve watch everyone was saying how bad it useless gunslinger was which gives the style such a bad reputation for no other reason than the UA-camr couldn’t be bothered to learn 😂😂 I’ve watched Kbash video where he straight up said “don’t pick gunslinger” like damn I guess people who learn about the game from him will never have that pleasure
Ironic... given that Gunslinger was made for people who liked DMC1 and was supposed to be the one style that "lets Dante be Dante". People who shit on Gunslinger do so only because it has one move less per weapon unlike swordmaster and even that's a fake criticism since it's the one style meant for people who want a tighter moveset so it fits. People who think DMC is only "sword combos" are wrong on so many levels that I feel like they played a different game. Every DMC game has at least a couple of enemies that require guns to take down and guns themselves play prominently in combo making even if you're in Swordmaster. Not even that - Twosome time alone gives so much insane cancelling ability it's almost as good at it as Royal Guard and on a purely practical side - it's the style that gives you the most burst DPS and on a new game gives you the most tools since E&I gets immediate access to wild stomp along with Rainstorm, Twosome time and Charged Shot.
Its one of my favorite franchises of all time. I'm not gonna put down other games to make it look better; but I'm still gonna suck the dick clean of this series and feel no remorse about it.
Quick reminder that it's fine to glaze over a franchise you like. As long as you're not bringing down other games while you're at it for horrible reasons. Video above.
The biggest difficulty for me as a lover of hack n slash games was reconciling the fact that dmc, one of my favourite action game series of all time, has some of the most insufferable and obnoxious fanboys that hate on other favourite action series such as gow (a rivalry as old as time). I am definitely not going to generalize the entire fanbase as such since i have met some beautiful souls in their community among the way. But MY GOD are they the most annoying in the overall community that just think that a world where all action games can be appreciated without having to rub dmc on every other game's nose is not possible. I can't even count the number of cancerous and hateful comments I've seen from them, especially towards gow (grow up ya silly twats it's not a bloodfeud). Even tho i can easily admit how dmc paved the way to most of the amazing action games, I'd rather live in a world where i can appreciate the variety for what it is rather than disregarding them all as dmc clones. It's kinda like the "Simpsons did it" thing but more obnoxious. The elitism is definitely there and it always bothered me that a lot of people didn't talk about it because it was such a discussion and vibe killer in my experience. So let me thank you zesty for talking about this (nice tie btw) cos it takes some courage to say such things out given how easily susceptible to conflict such statements can be. Definitely watch out for the angry ones below your comments for this video, if you know what i mean. P.S. : Thanks for calling out gamingbritshow with the agenda stuff, really despise that mf for enabling some of the toxicity we see in hack n slash nowadays (and fuck him especially for being a top ranking gow hater)
He didn't hate on GOW, he actually liked gow ascension for has some really depois gameplay, he made one descent critique on gow 2018 that definitivamente has some problens compared tô classic gow and when he made a Straith comparison it was with Godhand not DMC
@@petwisk2012 "decent critique" is a pretty soft word for what he actually said. Infact my problem with it wasn't his actual critique about the game (which i agreed with) but the constant rubbing of dmc and saying gow will never reach height of the genre (which is ok). And don't even get me started on the cancerous comments section underneath it.
This is the biggest slap in the face for me. It's almost as if people don't want more games and more variety in this already niche genre. Action game enjoyers should band together against the sea of open worlds and walking sims. But no... People still hate on other series and each fandom thinks the other is a braindead button masher (I saw a meme that showcased it perfectly, it was Bayo/DMC/GOW/MGR/NG all with thought bubbles above em saying that). It's crazy how much they hate on each other. And the hate on Souls is also crazy. I enjoy all of these series and it's really annoying to me how toxic they're to anything that isn't their fav
@@Walamonga1313 i agree with you But i think all action gamers banding against open world and other games is hypocritical when our intention is to create a healthy environment where all good things can be appreciated. Although I'm assuming you're talking against the saturation of these types of games and not in general.
@@laffycade3151 I didn't mean to band together as in to destroy the open worlds or walking sims lol. I just meant it as in, need to support more action games so that in turn more action games release. I still like a couple open world games like New Vegas or Elden Ring so wouldn't want those to be extinguished. My comment is more on how the open world game obsession from the past decade has had less variety lately
I totally agree with most things in this video. I dont really enjoy or like other action games outside devil may cry, but that's simply because dmc exactly appeals to what i want in an action game ( outside of dmc5 i don't like it at all and that's mostly because of the points you mention about it in this video) when playing other action games they just dont scratch the same itch and its mostly because i don't enjoy the control schemes. But i always make the distinction that i just dont like the game, NOT that the game is bad. like i fucking HATE ninja Gaiden but that does not make the game bad, it just is trying to do something that i simply don't care to play. this seems to be the crux of the issue, people critiquing things for being or not being things that they want them to be, instead of assessing them based on the games own merits and goals. Is ninja gaiden bad because it doesnt have lock on? no but i would enjoy it more if it did, so that just means i dont like it as much as i could, is that the games fault? also no, it just is, and is something that if i put enough effort into could probably learn to appreciate about it. This is a greater problem with media criticism at large imo
Totally fair to have comfort in one side and leave the other at peace, rathen than shaming it like the fans I talk about in the video. And if someone's not like that? Cool. The video's not targeting you. I am however surprised NG doesn't appeal to you. You're a professional speedrunner and NG would fit that. But you know better. Just thought the highly responsive controls and level design would fit your taste. Your last part of the message is also very important. This is a thing with fandoms of a lot of things. In my experience, I saw DMC fanatics (the BAD ones) to be the worst. It happens with other fandoms, too.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 for me ninja gaiden doesn't scratch that itch because of how low level of control you have over the specifics of your actions and the enemies, you cant ever have complete control over a situation and so it feels a bit frustrating, I'm sure that over time you can build up more control the better you get at the game, but as evidenced by the insanely luck based speedrun you can never have total control. And while thats also true for dmc its not to such an extent. Also i just hate dial combos they feel so restrictive disallowing me from using parts of my toolkit unless i insert a big long string instead of some kind of command input, like a stinger input for example, just feels needlessly restrictive. but thats just my preference. doesnt make the game wrong
Agreed. When they make a new DMC, they should consider putting in more challenge approach with different combinations of enemies that are hard to deal with and more sss ranking scores, like dmc 3 did, rather than throwing a bunch of ragdoll musou mobs that attack once in a year and all you have to do is cycle through weapons ad-nauseam.
And a kindly reminder, combos ARE fun. You CAN DO THEM. It's just that they don't dictate whether a game is bad or a masterpiece by their existence or nonexistence.
@@Bruno-fw6nwI can, but the original difficulty bar got so low over the years that it started to affect the higher difficulties as well. Dmc 5 DMD is the easiest DMD after DMC 2 DMD. I really miss memes like "easy mode is now selectable", and dmc3 soundtrack constantly dissing you for doing poor, they should bring it back. Normal difficulties should have normal challenge too, but the game itself shouldn't be casual-oriented.
@@Bruno-fw6nwyep, DMC LDK?, also on PC, a mod that change every enemy composition These people are so spoiled by hindered character that for them it is the challenege to come over
i think one of the major issues with the fans is that they claim the games are "combo stylish" yet they can't do any stylish combos. Theyre basing the quality off godly combo demons like Donguri990, instead of actually playing the game
I be real i get your point here but i think you are a bit biased and maybe too deep in the sauce in comparison to the normal viewer. I dont have that problem with dmc i have that with souls like games. Of course you have a few games trying to incoperate more DMC elements to their combat but if its done its mostly positive in my oppinion. I cant say the same about the souls formular. And there are so god damn many and everything gets called that too. God of war is a souls like, wu long is a souls like, your mom is a souls like. I cant stand it anymore and i love fromsoft games. Sorry for the rambling. You are right and i agree with most things said but i think that type of thinking only goes for the hardcore fans. Im a fan since it released and don't see it that deep. Played the game's the 1st time on a ps2 at my friends house like 15 years. Bloody palace on DMC3 ripped us apart everyday 😂
@@Tmo_201 Agreed. I despise how soulslikes have become oversaturated, but the fanboys don't want to admit it, or admit the fact that soulslikes aren't for everybody and how literally every modern action RPG copying that formula is a bad thing for those people that don't like them very much, including myself.
Ye, if we're being real combo videos and some annoying redditors aren't what killed the action game, it's Dark Souls and Sekiro selling a trilion copies and causing people to retroactively label every action game before it a "mindless button masher" which caused even some of the best action games devs to move toward this trend including Team Ninja who will probably add in a stagger gauge and stamina bar if they ever do make a Ninja Gaiden 4
@@stormysoup1083 I mean that's just the trend of video games and consumer demand. CAGs were also extremely oversaturated in their prime with the GOW clones, people just don't want to play those games anymore. Arcade design games were replaced by cinematic block-buster like titles or as you said soulslikes, because that's what people like now (and to an extent has a wider demographic). Also, Team Ninja did that to themselves with NG3 lmfao, half the fanbase wouldn't have been interested with a sequel because of their design philosophies and the Itagaki drama. And I'm saying that as a NG fan
I've always felt that every combat system in every game has it's own dance so to speak Learning to Tango in DMC is going to be different in DMC, in GOW, in Sifu, in soulslikes etc. Every combat system is going to be it's own thing, and I'd rather everything be it's own thing rather than be DMC
Btw, your ending speech about gimmicky enemies and boss fights actually reminded me about the same situation within Souls community. It's the deal with Demon's Souls. I love bosses in this game, because of how creative they did them, because it's not as much about difficult dodge timings and one-shot attacks with them, it's this gimmicky puzzle-like and unique design. Yeah, not all of them were made great, but they're all interesting and have some unique idea behind them. But that design makes them not that hard, they can be hard only for your first playthrough. And that's exactly why Souls community says that DeS have horrible bosses. Just because they're easy. Because they don't have two or three phases, 15 seconds long combo attacks, AoE one-shots or the speed of the devil in their movement. All the design that was actually put into them they just ignore, because once you know how to beat them, they become easy. I mean, of course they will become easy, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT, the fun is in finding a way to make them easy, not in learning the dodge patterns, that's just the different kind of fun. If you watched a playthrough before playing the game for yourself or read some hints to bosses weaknesses and didn't had fun with them because of it - it's not the game's fault. The game's bosses were NOT designed in a way Elden Ring's bosses did, so you can't expect from them the same. I can definitely see where your points in your speech come from, because i feel the same way.
I think the main premise here is that dmc surely inspired and pushed the hack n slash genre to create highly expressive and character focused games. Its main goal was to translate the personality of the character into their gameplay.Kratos, Bayonetta, Raiden, Hayabusa all have unique combat styles that are reflective of their personalities. Each of the franchises that they belong to have taken notes from dmc. As with any franchise, we’ve seen that all hack n slash games (for the sake of switching things up) make their games more and more complex with each sequel at the end that’s what a sequel should be. Gow for example only gave you 2 weapons, gow 2 gave you three and gow 3 gave you 4 weapons to switch from. You see this type of evolution with all hack n slash games as they come out with more sequels they tend to push the mechanics even further and give the player even more options. The reason some players may prefer gow 2 over 3 or dmc 3 over 5 is because having more mechanics may not be the main focus of a player however I cannot bash or blame the developers for trying to add new mechanics and toys to play with as they’re only trying to improve upon the older games. What veterans have a problem with is not exactly how many mechanics a sequel adds but the general focus of these mechanics and how much they shift the overall gameplay idea of the franchise from what it originally was and I think that’s a solid point. DMC is an awesome franchise, personally I have only played the first one but from what I’ve seen the developers are very talented and haven’t massively disappointed fans with their DMC sequels, I think in this case it is not the devs that are the problem but rather some of their fans.
The video above gets misunderstood as this "DMC hate" video for some reason, when it's said countless times that the problem is not the games themselves (as shown in an extra trolling way with the latest video/song). The fact of the matter is, DMC does have a lot of depth, but people only talk about that. Character depth, which is a FACTOR to millions of other things working to make a fantastic combat system. DMC5's complexity for Dante does not get justified when the enemies are not up for it. The enemies are just not ready for that type of smoke. The enemy design, resource management, efficiency tools are all just as important as character depth. Yet they're never talked about. I make a video about that, and they tell me "Who's saying that?" Who's saying WHAT? Video has a lot of arguments. Some arguments have a HUGE crowd, some not so much (but still exist).
@@ExtremeGameplays1 I get you brother, unfortunately there’s also a type of “fan” that likes their game a little too much and as a result refuses to admit any type of criticism for their game and will throw a tantrum anytime someone doesn’t like their game or prefers another to it.
The "more weapons with every sequel" isn't exclusive to action games. "MOAR" is the most gliche way to make better sequels, and for video games, that adds instant complexity, without talking about how well they interact with each other or with the enemies. Anime Arena fighters would go with MOAR characters. Action games will go with MOAR weapons. Dark souls 2 went with MOAR weapons, MOAR enemies, MOAR bosses, MOAR items. It feeds the simple mindset of "more=better" most folks have.
As someone whos played video games since I was a kid and love action games/hack n slash... I have never heard a single person make any of these arguments in my entire life. Not even among the more toxic DMC fans. It sounds like you're arguing agaisnt a minority. The most I can give you is "it's the gold standard and created the genre" which... It kinda did. You didn't even argue against it aside from showing Onimusha. they mean the concept of juggling which was seen in other character action games. Onimusha had this as a glitch. In DMC, it was an intended feature that became an essential part of the combat. Havent heard anyone say a game was a copy of dmc either but acknowledging a game is inspired by it or borrows elements like the style system. Bayonetta DOES allow you to use multiple weapons unlike what you eaid during your minirant when comparing DMC to Bayo and you switched loadouts in the clip you showed. And frankly have never heard anyone who was a DMC fan bash the game for not being like DMC. They either love the game/character or have no strong opinion but not view Bayonetta as a trash game cause its not like its counterpart Not doubting these people exist but im just saying youre arguing and ranting against a very small minority you may have run into a few times. I HAVE seen people complain about the older enemies though. And new enemies. To be fair though some are annoying like the Blitz from 4 and some fans dont know you can just ignore specific enemies in 3 and rarely HAVE to fight them Also on Ninja Gaiden guys name pronunciation, its "re-yu". Since you mentioned uou didnt know how to say his name
Idk man, I don't think these obnoxious sort are a minority anymore. Everywhere i go i see the stupid comparisons and the rigid standard setting for every action game to be like dmc. In my experience, I've seen them a lot in non action gaming related discussions too, which baffles me. The insufferable elitists don't seem like a minority these days.
@@laffycade3151 In the wake of Elden Ring i'm seeing a lot more of this sort of thing on a widespread scale from Fromsoft bots instead of Devil May Cry, Devil May Cry elitism is usually held within it's own fandom as the fans bicker among themselves as to which is best.
@@bubbajoe117 true, in the wake of elden ring to be precise, so the dmc one is sort of overshadowed by it. But prior to that it was definitely vocal. Zesty wouldn't have made this video if it really was from a negligible pocket in the internet spreading such toxicity but it isn't unfortunately.
as a devil may cry fan i also love the other action games like ninja gaiden and understand that not all of them will be like devil may cry such as ninja gaiden and metal gear rising
as a new dmc fan. i played dmc 1 and 3 and the games are hella fun without mods or anything especially dmc 3 who has multiple possibilities for each build and the game has a lot of replay ability
Oh for the love of... DMC can be enjoyed in so many ways. You can play it for high score, you can play it for the zany shounen anime plot, you can play it as a study on player moveset / enemy design (both what to do and what NOT to do), you can do challenge runs, you can do combos, freestyles, try to make sense of the plot and/or lore. And I am saying this as someone who went into combo / styleplay way of enjoying the games after years of playing them "efficiently"... But whether it's DMC, NG, Bayo or GoW - leave it to a narrowminded fanbase to ruin it for everyone else.
This is what I'm saying as well. This video is not saying "You are NOT to stylishly combo". You can achieve that but for a new player? How about some learning and efficiency approaches first and leaving the styling cambaws for later? When you're eventually a master of the game.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 And to think that the old True Style Tournaments were started exactly because people were getting tired of the overexposure of combos over the core gameplay...
I fell like your points applys to gaming in general Heck nowdays it's not about dmc like but sekiro/soulslike games Even action stylish games needs to be somewhat soulsy now
@@nerdodragonnerdpl4167 And honestly I really hate that. I wish the combat systems of action games nowadays weren't as copy-pastey compared to what we got more than a decade ago. They should really try and do their own thing instead of trend chasing.
@@BuryTheLight-tds Exacly! It's crayzy how games could be different back in the days It's all gernalists fault that tryed to make video games better movies/interactive movies Not even hard boiled or Matchet style ones
Action games peaked in the ps2 era and have gone down hill, so many creative action games came out that time and it’s sad most follow a souls like formula
Fr my problem with most games is that they tend to be less deep than a SINGLE weapon in Dmc 5, there’s barely any game trying to copy what dmc 5 did because it’s extremely hard so all they do is the souls game combat formula with like one more button that does a special attack lol
Somewhat expected to see some talk about how the "combos" don't even have the basic Fighter mechanics that a lot of DMC fans pretend they do. Other than that, neat video.
Finished the video. While I get where youre coming from with some points, this whole video is a weird generalization and strawmanning based on a few interactions you or your community has had with people like that. Mentioning the "average style player" and saying that "they want Ninja Gaiden to be DMC" is wrong, as people who dabble into Stylish Action/Cuhrayzee/Character Action games in general do be interested in other projects and want more of them to be different one from another, even oldheads from the community (who, for some reason, you say both did exist and started to be a thing only during the DMC 5 days), are playing a variety of games and trying to master them. Also, can we stop implying DMC5 is a bad game because its easier than older games? Its still a great game, just kinda easier.
I do always think about how fans of certain franchises can't last for two seconds without comparing everything they ever play to it. Soulsborne, DMC, etc. fans all get super frustrating to talk with in those respects because they tend not to branch out of their specific franchises much and often criticize games with completely different goals and systems for not being like their idealized version of their own favorite game. I think some of it comes from either playing one game (or game series) too much, getting the impression that they're good at it (and by extension good at video games), and then losing their abilities to adapt to new systems (this is a nice way of saying "getting skill issue'd" by another game) and/or their sense to appreciate different strengths in a game.
I think you underrate the combo potential of vanilla DMC3 with Swordmaster and on DMD you can still combo but actually way more because of how the launcher/Knockback works on DMD enemies. But, as a DMC fan, i love Ninja Gaiden's combat (Especially NG2) and MGRR, and i don't need them to be like DMC juggle simulator. Actually you can combo way more then you think in those 2 games like using Shuriken Cancels and Blade mode cancels ect.
@@DemonKnight94 The subject is not "Hey! You can combo in other games and the comboing rivals DMC!" It's never that. I know DMC3 has combo potential. I've seen it. Hell, I think I've DONE a DMC3 Combo Mad video before. It's just that it's never as cuhrayzee as some people make it out to be.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 Yes it is. Combo isn't only about how it looks. Combo is a way to express your understanding of the game, and your execution skill, and your unique quality. One of the most important aspect of combo is difficulty (that's where DMC5 fumbles). One of the thing I hate about DMC5 (which is also it's biggest flaw) is difficulty. The dev were too afraid to make the game too hard, and they're right, because DMC5 is easily the best game for average player who never touch even DMC5's DMD.
Letting go of wanting to juggle everything allowed me to like the games even more and find more interactions by playing my own way and look up others' findings. I'm also glad that someone else has similar opinions about the fandom's mindset about the series.
Admittedly I am the biggest DMC3 glazer, but imo they calculatedly crafted the most rewarding, replayable, challenging action game. Games don't have to be DMC3 to be perfect they just achieved perfection with DMC3
@@إلياسواكريم-ت9ز Hahahahah, DMC4 has the best gameplay? The hell? I would switch between 5 & 4, but you put 3 as wells, which has the best of both worlds.
Action game fan in general here- DMC is my favorite, but I enjoy all of the series you mention (i.e. Bayo, PS2-3 GoW, MGR, NG, HFR, etc) all for what they do uniquely (especially NG), I just like DMC the most cause I like what DMC does uniquely the most. I agree with most of your video, and the points I disagree with seem to be addressed in the comments already by BeeG, but I do feel you very much undersell DMC5's enemy design. DMC5 is my favorite in the series, and the enemies I feel aren't mere punching bags. Many- Judecca, Fury, Behemoth, Proto Angelo, Empusa Queens, etc. aren't mere "punching bags" and have anti-air mechanisms of their own, and the only enemies I feel that are "punching bags" are Cainas and Riots, Green and Red Empusas, both bats, and Scudo Angelo. I think you should apply your own descriptions of DMC1-4 to DMC5 as well, in other words- Yes, it can be a the "combo sim" many DMC fans claim to love about it, but it's far more than that and beats out DMC3 and DMC1 for my favorite in the series, albeit it's a close race between the three. The problem is the heavy social media focus on The Void and Vergil memes and not on the actual missions or Bloody Palace and how people ignore the existence of V and Nero. Dante's grounded options are better than they've ever been, but social media doesn't care for it. I just want to add- the subset of DMC fans you mention also hurt DMC as well, in regards to characters that aren't Dante and Vergil. A lot of the fanbase doesn't understand any game mechanic other than complexity, I feel. So, when very intentional decisions are made about Nero, per say, in his limitations, people see this as a problem rather than as a decision. Itsuno spoke heavily about his intentional decision to make Devil Breakers non-switchable, for instance. Many DMC fans feel the need to "correct" this via breaker-switching mods, and I feel this mentality will essentially make you never like Nero. There's so many tools you have to work with for Nero, from Exceed, to his unique charge shot mechanics, to his Busters, to the various Devil Breakers, to Table Hopper, and so on, yet because all this does not amount to the depth Dante and Vergil have (on the surface), people disregard his entire character. These false expectations of DMC being "stylish" in a weird sense you speak of throughout the entire video hurt people's opinions and enjoyment of Nero, let alone Lady, Trish, and V. I've seen many Twitter/Reddit takes that Nero is a flawed character because he only has one weapon, or because he only has one "style" (despite styles being a clear Dante-only mechanic), or whatever it be. I am not a fan of that mentality. The same goes for V to a greater extent. V breaks all the norms and expectations one has going into DMC5, and people disregard his entire character and playstyle because of it. It's frustrating to see V, the most that DMC5 did to innovate in the genre, be utterly disregarded the way he is when you can feel his influence in say, Bayonetta 3, and yet it's an incredibly popular take that V is the worst part of DMC5. I'm not saying V is a perfect character, but people hate on his gameplay seemingly exclusively for not being Dante. DMC5 narratively meant to retire Dante and Vergil as characters, and that's imho what the series needs. Maybe a Nero-focused DMC6 and paired with a comeback from Ninja Gaiden and a Bayonetta 4 can give us the resurgence of action games we need with a healthier community.
This honestly sounds like you're complaining about a small sub-section of annoying fans that I rarely have ever come across. I have never heard anyone with a functioning brain say "Gow 3 is a bad action because it's not like DMC" God of war's combat doesn't focus on style. It's focus brutality. Sure I prefer dmc 5 and 3 but I never ever thought that Gow2 or 3 are lesser now that I have dmc 5. The 2 combat systems are like apples and grapes to me. Sure they're both fruit and both taste good and I prefer grapes but apples are good too! And sure Bayo is a stylish action game that while good I still prefer dmc 5. But Bayo has her own style of play that isn't in DMC 5. She has her own style that is just as fun to play as dante or nero or kratos. Bayonetta isn't lesser because I prefer dmc 5. Also dmc 4's enemies suck. (To me at least) And it's not because "I can't style or combo them" they suck because they aren't fun to fight. Same with DMC 3's more annoying and/or gimmicky enemies. I also don't like the style system in dmc3 because while I understand the game is designed around it and was how the game was made to be played, going back to statues to swap your load out wastes time and hurts your rank, which just makes me not wanna bother swapping at all. Sure I can replay the mission to get the collectables or practice with it later, but I would rather do it now. DMC 3 is better with style swapping because it's convenient. It's also more fun for newcomers to the game since it might make finding your preferred style easier. Obviously the game should still have the option to be played as originally intended (which it does) and I might do it as a different experience from time to time, but having style swapping if only for convenience sake is SO MUCH BETTER! It honestly made dmc3 so much more fun for me. I always thought it was great but playing it with free style made me love Dante's kit in DMC 3 even more. I do still prefer 5 for various reasons but 3 (especially with free style) is awesome too. But even without free style DMC 3 still has the best story, awesome bosses, 2 fun characters and fun weapons to use. DMC 3 and 5 are great. So is God of war and Bayonetta. They are great for different reasons.
I remember seeing first DMC3 "combomad" video having like 80% of jc+swordmaster aerial attack, helm breaker, high time and repeat and I thought well yeah it's cool spaming same attack 10 times and all, but why would you skip all those beutiful animations that developers spend time making? That's why I like freestyle more than that type of "combos". Lock on + directional Input is just what I become accostomed to, so it's personal preference. I don't like when there is lock on that doesn't actually makes anything. Like you're lock on to one enemy and character uses move towards different enemy. I can be gaslighting DMC sometimes for it being powefantasy where you "dictate" pace of combat most of the time and not other way around, because some of new "action" games, that say they are action games that are inspired by DMC, but in fact it's like 60-80% soulsbournesekiro gameplay. Have nothing against GoW(execpt maybe a bit too much QTE for my liking, again personal preference. Still enjoyed playing classic series), NG, MGR, Byaonneta or Nier. Heck I love Darksiders I and II(III too, but not for combat xD) and Legacy of Kain: Defiance.
What you've watched is a DMD combo where juggling enemies becomes infinitely harder due to the stun and launch system of Devil Triggered enemies. DMD combos - as repetitive and boring they MIGHT look are the closest thing to being forced to be practical and efficient in your use of attacks in terms of comboing since it boils down to managing the enemy's stun and displacement meters.
i have to say sometimes less is more, even if we say DMC is the deepest action game of all time, still it doesnt objectively make it better, for me an "easy to learn, hard to master" type of game is much more enjoyable. i have played a few DMC games and did not enjoy them that much, and thats because i cant adapt to a game fast enough to start enjoying it sooner, but for God of War i never had that problem because its in a way even though i play it badly i still feel like a pro just because of how satisfying the game looks even when i a just doing "square square triangle", but on each playthrough i learn a little bit more and slowly i will go from "mindless button mashing" to "using different combos with different weapons as different tools for different situations", i am still no professional in God of War but the fact that each playthrough is slightly smarter than my previous playthrough satisfies me. what i want to say is that there are different types of games for different types of gamers. video games are subjective. you can say a game implements a few elements objectively better than another game, but as a package you cant say this game is objectively better than that game. its up to the developers to have as many mechanics as they want or how deep should those mechanics be, all that matters is that they should use those elements to make overall a fun game. some people have the talent to breeze through DMC games on "Dante must die" difficulty and they enjoy it, and some people like to play God of War games on easiest difficulty settings to have a chill and laid back experience, some people like the challenges of a dark souls game and some people like to play a 2d beat-em-up and finish the game without learning any mechanics i want to see the days that people would just accept that they cant understand every single game but they would totally respect other people for having different opinions. by the way nice video 👍 someone needed to say not everything is objective
Well, if there's one thing i learned from this video, it's why some people hate DMC 5. Not like i was interested in why they hate, but now i get it. It is easier than the previous games and it's easier to do combos there, that's true, that's what i noticed as well when I started to play through harder difficulties while being a fan of the series for many years. Is it bad though, like, do you really hate that it's just easier for the newcomers. It's not like you can't make the game harder for yourself choosing the difficulty and your play style. Like Zesty did with turning off the jump cancel. That's an interesting decision, and it's allowed him to have more fun with that game. What's wrong with the game just being easier for the people who never played these games, or who considered them hard to play, because honestly - they were hard to play stylishly. DMC 5 allows people to make their combat flashy and cool without spending their entire life into understanding the game, so i fail to see the problem here. Again, you can always make the game as hard as you want it to be, just play more risky, play more with unsafe moves, don't use overpowered ones too often or don't cheese the enemies - it's really that simple. Play on Hell and Hell ffs. I had a lot of fun with this mode, especially because my play style wasn't the best for it, it's too risky, so i even needed to change it a bit in order to even complete it lol. So yeah, it's easier, but it doesn't make the game less fun or straight up bad. Just find your own way with the game, experiment more. Or don't, because if you really think it's bad, you probably didn't liked some other stuff of the game, like art style or smth, and you don't have any desire to experiment with it. It's fine, there's plenty other games to dive into, just play them, why hate something and tell everyone that it's bad when it's actually not.
DMC5 is an easy game, the fun of it comes from combos/juggles/styling, the way enemies/bosses/characters are designed complement that. You cannot hate on DMC5 for its difficulty, because it's CLEARLY not trying to be difficult, even with JC off or even with no upgrades, it's still easy/decently challenge. If you want a challenging DMC you boot up DMC1-4 DMD. if you want to style and combo, you boot up DMC5 DMD. If you want a balanced mix of both, you boot up DmC Devil may cry. Each game has its philosophy and you play it for what it is, and not complain for what it is not trying to be. "DMC5 enemies are braindead" isn't a jab at the game's experience, but a jab at "X enemies Vs Y enemies" conversations, when you compare elements from games, DMC5 enemies will always be the worse one, on the other hand, DMC5 dante will always be the best one when it comes to the sheer ammount of possibilities/creativity, freedom and combos potential. Each thing for what it is, Simple as that.
Yo CoolSaver. Was waiting for you to comment. The thing with DMC5 is that, notice the lengths I've gone to make it remotely as interactive as other action games. I may not show it, but it PAINS me that I've turned off what pretty much has been a staple of the franchise. It's a lot of things that work together to make DMC5 so unrealistically easy as Dante. The lack of gravity, the lack of air interrupting or escapes, the easy as hell JC, the easily launchable enemies... Turning off JC made it a lot more fun and challenging rather than camping in the air, but it's still a flaw that I had to do THAT to gain some interactive plays in the game. I love the game very much. I occasionally play BP or random missions. But man it's so easy. There's a concept of easy and low floor, but high ceiling. Easy to learn, hard to master. DMC5 goes easy on both. Why? 3 playable characters. No time to make the enemies deep and as gimmicky as before. Make them accommodate for all 3 and what you get is DMC5. DMD is the staple difficulty of these games. Hardest difficulties are generally where action games shine through. And I like this game's DMD. With turned off JCs.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 you what now? Haha, sorry, if I knew you remembered me I would've watched your vid sooner 😅 I know you put a lot of work into it, I read your post about it, just thought this theme wouldn't bring anything new to me, which is true for the most part, but I still enjoyed it. I already knew exactly what kind of DMC fans you're going to talk about, I've met them as well while trying to prove my point that new GoW games are goddamn stylish as well 😂 And back to DMC 5 again and your problem with it, well, I think you just became too good of an action games player. Even though it felt easy for me, it never felt frustratingly (if that's a word) easy. Again, probably because I just auto-ballanced my playthroughs with my play style. For example, I knew that you can easily pick enemies one-by-one in the air and deal with them there no probs, but... I only did it for H&H difficulty 😅 I focused more on the ground combat instead, getting in the air for short periods of time, trying not to abuse the game's weaknesses too much and keep it challenging. And that was fun for me to do, but I get it that if you're too good at the game you just need to take more and more options from yourself to keep it challenging, so I guess you've just mastered the game and that's what happened, because enemies' and bosses' low depth allowed you to do this pretty quickly. So I guess that's the main problem of the game. Fun fact, I am actually NOT good at DMC 4 at all, even though I played it a lot, and this game was so frustrating to me because of it 😅 I felt good on the highest difficulties in DMC 1, 3 and 5 (2 doesn't exist), but not 4. And you know what? After I get the hang of Nero's mechanics, Dante's style switcher and JC overall in 5 (because I wasn't really using JC in 3 much, again preferring ground combat instead), I returned to 4 and OH MY GOD I finally started to love this game 😂 Somehow 4 is the most brutal in the franchise for me, even though I still think that 1 and 3 are harder, and I actually needed to play more easier version of it first to be able to enjoy 4. I want to believe there's more players who started with an easier 5 and then progressively dived deep into the harder ones. So 5 has its benefits, as well as the flaws, and that's fine.
this video actually got me back to playing dmc 4 and metal gear rising regularly again honestly people should start looking at action games like any other video games because it makes them even more fun to play
Nice video, brother. There's a lot of good points here, but I especially agree with the frustration you feel towards people complaining about DMC3 enemies and the weapon/style limitations
Mods have the potential to add a lot of great content to old games, sadly tho most modders just wanna change random things that make the game easier or in there eyes "better" And then there are stupid changes made for no reason like UI changes and stuff like that. Sometimes a game needs a very small change to fix and issue or just make the game a lot better, but sadly most modders are more concerned with making big booba mods or other stuff like that.
Mods are amazing. It's when someone is arguing about a video game and he brings up a modded DMC3 into the discussion is where it's wrong. Both disregards the original game and generally argues about something that got altered beyond the dev's vision. It'd be like if I went and modded the Batmobile from Arkham Knight to Arkham Asylum, and then say Asylum is hella fun cuz it allows me to drive the Batmobile. When DMC4 adds style switching as a sequel, that's one thing. Using mods to bring sequel things into DMC3? Fun, but never replacing the main game. Never. For personal preferences, maybe. But objectively? That's a modded DMC3.
@@Guava11534 I hope you enjoy the rest of the games. Remember, less doesn't particularly mean worse. You'll find more depth in the enemies of DMC1, 3, and 4 than in 5.
One thing I will say that is spot on on this video is that a lot of DMC fans who absolutely have a chip on their shoulder of how successful God of War was and how it over shadowed DMC3 the month it came out and became the thing to copy despite DMC2 being a pile of sludge thus damaging the IP
juggling enemies mid air for minutes look cool and fun for a short time. after a while its kinda tedious, given how spongy the enemies are.. youre forced to do ridiculous combos. i prefer nioh 2, stranger of paradise, ninja gaiden
Bayonetta and unironically Kingdom hearts fans are fine but DMC and Ninja Gaiden fans? They are practically two sides of the same coin my god and I thought Ultrakill fans were bad.
Based. I wouldn't really consider KH an action game series, but it is darn good. I will say that there's definitely a subsection of that community that's very "if you haven't done everything level 1, your opinion is worthless," but that's kind of just normal in games like that. All of the series mentioned are fantastic series btw. Kingdom Hearts has some of my favorite boss design ever.
I came to this one with a skeptical eye tbh, but after just watching 12 minutes, I agree with you. Coming from someone who has DMC as his favorite game series and is semi-decent at it.
Watch the rest where I express my feelings towards the entire franchise. It's not the games themselves. As for the title. If. You're. NOT. Like. The. Fans. I. Talk. About. Then the video is NOT targeting YOU (surprise).
@@ExtremeGameplays1 Yeah I actually watched it all there and then, but didn't deem it necessary to comment again since as I've said, I do agree with you
That's the main problem I actually appreciate zesty for talking about this because it has been an issue for a long ass time yet people rarely complained about this despite finding it problematic. I would talk to a lot of friends on the internet about how they had to face such obnoxious fanboys yet there was no solid video or post that talked about this. Glad zesty is but also a bit worried that he'll have to face the toxicity now.
And toxicity I've faced. "Nobody's saying that" cards being used left and right when these people rarely engage in combat arguments that go beyond and outside DMC. Arguments in bad faith are also a helluva thing. Reddit? Some jackass posted the thumbnail to shed bad light on it, only for the ignorants to comment "DMC RUINED ACTION GAMES? HE JEALOUS" without even READING the title right. Or watching atleast a little of it. Funny how the big dawgs of the community in DMC almost all agree with the video's arguments. If they disagree with something, they atleast SPECIFY which point (since there are 3 main talking heads). Even combo madders like BeeG agreed. Chaser Tech, WaifuRuns. These are DMC Vets that agree. Some ignorant people twist the narrative and disagree. All in bad faith if an argument even happens. As for the rest? It feels like they're defending their religion or some shtik. How hard is it to understand that IF YOU'RE *NOT* like the fans I talk about, then the video is *NOT* targeting you. Just move along or atleast watch and understand. If you're not down to watching a meticulously written and edited 45 minutes video that dives deep into the root of the problem then just say so rather than being toxic.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 this is the consequence of dmc combat being held as the only gold standard in discourse; fanaticism and reluctance. It's not just the fanboys responsible for this but even the critics and journos who for ages have been comparing action games with dmc in their reviews. "Oh the combat is good but it's no dmc/there aren't many combos like dmc" This review pressure feeds into the overall discourse too.
Solid video man. But one critique I have, some parts of the video kinda comes across as "I've seen some people say this stuff. So that means the majority of people say/think this."
It's not really just some people saying it. Some of these complaints are made by not only reddit posts with a considerable following/up votes but even certain UA-cam videos and channels that push this narrative. Best example: gamingbritshow
Reddit is an easy example to bring up. There are oceans of these points in other forums such as GFAQs, Twitter and a buncha other forums. It IS a narrative. It's not a majority when talking broadly about the DMC fandom, but it is somewhat a majority in the action games scene that focuses on combat. Not a majority? We can't call it a minority either.
As a Devil May Cry Fan myself and having DMC as my Nr.1 action series. i agree with you. Well, i am not a pro at jump cancel and i totally suck at this, but i love to play the games anyway. because it makes fun. And i don´t call myself even a pro player. lol i personally, love the other Hack n Slash series as well. Since i can do things there, which i can not do in the DMC series. Because that is why i love these games, and why i love to replay them from time to time.
This is genuinely surprised me, that there's quite a chunk of the fandom that act this way or this braindead, since my interaction with the them so far it's never been this worst, the only reminiscent bad experience that i got from the fandom are just an idiot troll, i'm saying as DMC fan as well that have been playing this game for decades 😅
Yeah. This video doesn't target you or the wholesome people you speak of. Every fandom has its bad side. I've met some lovely people through the DMC community.
@@Dark-Wolf-066 i feel that a dmc player themselves may not encounter these sorts much, the problem arises when you're a player from another action game and try to have a discourse about it. As a gow player i have frequently met these toxic shitheads and it's so dissapointing how everytime i try to check up the dmc subreddit or other post i have to encounter this negativity. Like damn, we really can't appreciate multiple things huh? Sucks ass tbh because i love dmc as a whole but always found some of the fanbois highly irksome when talking about other games like gow or ninja gaiden.
@@laffycade3151 I guess it just a me thing, cuz i'm fully aware that i'm living under a rock since i never use reddit nor twitter cuz it's also never been a big thing in my place, which most of people consider as a toxic place for online discussion, and i still keeping my self to stay away from those platform cuz of the warning that people gave to me?... so as a result i never encounter "that" side of the fandoms cuz i only, and mainly interact to them on youtube comments till this day
The most fun things about It Is that also many entries in the DMC series are not like the idea of DMC that the average fan has. See First DMC and DMC3 (outside combo videos with style switch mode) are appreciated less then 4 and 5 (which Is legit actually for taste reasons, but not for being inferior in absolute terms)
Based Zesty humbling the uppity combotards. I miss the early days of 3D Action (2001-2008) when new action game IPs used to be very distinct from each other. DMC, GoW, Kingdom Hearts,Ninja Gaiden, God Hand, Onimusha, Chaos Legion etc. NONE of these games played anything like each other and all had something different from rest to standout and give it its own identity. Now its just chasing what the normies like instead of new innovation. Nothing against DMC and Souls (I like both) but its so tiresome...
That’s why I loved hi-fi rush so much it was doing its own thing, I wish more action games tried different things, like how ultra kill takes notes from action games but in an fps form, wish more games branched out instead of trying to be souls or dmc
Agree with this comment a lot. Nothing against DMC or Souls either, but damn I miss when we had so many different "flavors" to pick. Most 2000s action games played quite differently and they were all fun
I love DMC, I want there to be more varied action games out there and I don't mind the stylish meter being in more games but it is important that it isn't in *ALL* games. The way people talk about the combat in DMC now reminds me a lot of people talking about ""open world" up until mid way through the 2010s. People are now quite literally making Skyrim mods to mimic DMC's gameplay funny enough. I haven't watched this and I already agree just from the stance of variety, there needs to be games which take a simpler approach to whatever mechanic to compliment the more in depth and involved ones. The last thing you want is complete homogenization with gameplay
Now that I have finished the video, I still agree even though funny enough I expected the point to be more about over complicating games with the same specific DMC style of action game combat that don't need it; DMC 5 is absolutely the easiest to combo in in the series and has pretty dull enemies for the most part. I won't lie that I never really used charged shots against cutlass in DMC 4 and thought they were kind of an annoying outlier in that game too even though I love DMC 1 which is most specifically about enemy weaknesses. I think it's probably a fairly predictable result that people would overhype DMC 5's game design in comparison to others *because* it is really accessible, it is the antithesis to the gassing up of Elden Ring's "no hand-holding" which leads to a lot of people trying to brute force their way through that game the wrong way as well lol. In neither case makes a perfect game, they are very good at what they do (probably, I cba with Elden Ring). Elden Ring's problem is the community loves challenge runs too much, they think you have to ignore game mechanics like summoning or you're just bad. DMC 5's new community's problem is they think every game needs enemies that also let you air juggle them forever. The fact that Shadow of the Erdtree wasn't a fun time for no summon - strength builds as they died nigh ad infinitum like Asmongold jump attacking like they have no brains only relying on dodge s is not bad game design. I think Souls devs are at fault for not making it clear that ignoring a game's mechanics for the sake of "skill" is pretty stupid and these DMC 5 fans thinking the donguri990 way is the "most skillful" and "good game design" possible are also being pretty stupid with that assertion as you say (not that it's bad for these things to exist, just that people have very narrow ignorant views on them)
TL;DR - In recent years DMC 5 and Elden Ring are the action games stupid Redditors decide "If your game isn't like this, then it's bad" which is especially stupid in the case of Elden Ring with the magic and summoning haters imo. Both cases are about game play styles completely dominating a person's idea of what "fun" is or what "skill" is to an absurd and ignorantly dismissive degree. The Be-all End-all mentality towards what is so rigidly ascribed to either word actively harms conceptions of game design and prevents players from thinking outside of the box and actually enjoying more games.
@@morkgin2459 honestly I don't really count the blitz, maybe with Nero, I haven't played much as Vergil, but with Dante it's easy to bully him before he game-ends himself in a single combo.
@@morkgin2459 I didn't say every arena was focused on juggling, I do like some of the gimmicky area's, but the combat mechanics lean more heavily on the style meter and juggling.
I agree with some of the points but this is all coming from being triggered by posts on the internet and “fans”. Dmc 5 was my intro to the franchise and I didn’t jump cancel for like the first 200 hours of playing (mind you I was a Vergil main to start, I now play Dante and can combo a bit) My main point is dmc 5 revived the franchise and brought it to a new level of popularity, so being so upset at newcomers preferring the more stylish and combo focused gameplay OF JUST DANTE MIGHT I ADD just comes off as bitter og player that prefers what their first impression of dmc was Popularity is a good thing for a dead franchise at the time, and yes I say dead because the reboot wasn’t exactly a hopeful sign for the franchise when that came out
You almost had me until you said there's a goldmine behind DMC4's combat. Game is unbaked regardless if you go for the BS air combo gameplay or simply playing the game for the challenge. There's a solid reason why DMC3 is the best - it's a complete game from the golden age of gaming.
@@OZcomingFRoo I wish it was honestly You are only thinking about the bosses Cerberus, Agni Rudra, Beowolf and Vergil Rest are either horrible like Arkham, Jester kinda. The Horse and Nevan could be considered somewhat decent. Doppleganger is underwhelming. Let's not mention the third boss and the sea monster boss, okay?
I had a huge realization when i played 4s BP and constantly got anti aired and clipped if i played sloppily. Coming from years of DMC5 and seeing the genius design of the Angelos or even Frosts completely broke my DMC5 brain where enemies just leave you be. Then i played the first two GoW games for the first time this year (on hard and later very hard) and i found this beauty in playing well and efficient, not overextending and actually having a gameplan to survive and reactions (granted i spammed Cronus with rage and the hammer throughout II lol). Getting good at Tekken also made me realise that. I learned to love the more challenging aspects of DMC after that. Its still my favorite action series but my mindset has completely changed now. If your idea of skillful play is to lower the difficulty and juggle some enemy in the air for hours, i have bad news buddy.
@@zesork5627 DMC is far more than the false idea of combo madding. I'm simply tired of having one of my favorite franchises get so misinterpreted and wrongly advertised. There's SO much depth a lot of these "fans" either don't care about or consider "not so great" or "annoying".
@@DominusGary You can even like DMC5 the most. This is not a post that says "You can't have DMC over any other game". Everyone has taste and preferences.
@@Me-jf2oo well it depends on what you'd consider a flaw in the game, I can definitely understand his criticisms of it but on the flip side it's considered the best by many for those same reasons, it's what the fandom exactly asked for.
@@Ovlam5555h Imo they went too far in simplifying the mechanics and making the game casual friendly. Enemies are braindead easy, jump cancel and exceed and royal guard are easier, the overall difficulty of the game is low, and S ranking missions (with the exception of janky ranking in a few missions) is a breeze. I don’t hate dmc 5, in fact I love the game, but I don’t ignore the flaws it has like many others.
Bro who are you even talking about?? As someone who's been a huge dmc fan for some time now, I've almost never seen people talk this way. Yeah we think DMC is the best action, hack and slash, whatever you want to call it, game, but I've never seen anyone say "It's the only way an action game can be good", or "other action games MUST be like it". Some say the prefer dmc's style, which is fine people can have a preference, but never that it's the only way.
@@antelasic1950 You haven't seen enough. Simple as that. Besides, the video covers two other points. Two other points that you also haven't seen enough discussed about them. You're not up in forums, Reddit, Twitter, UA-cam retrospectives of other games where the reviewer downtalks a certain game calling it "a lesser DMC". You haven't seen what I've seen while discussing combat depth. Which is fine, since it's not the most healthy way to go about things. You've only seen the wholesome side of the community. I love that side very much.
Hello! Sonic fan here. I agree with this video, 100%. I've seen people saying that sonic can also work as an action game and said sonic should play like devil may cry and such. To which I do not agree. Maybe some characters in sonic would work decently with combat character action gameplay. But staying in one place when beating up a foe just doesn't fit sonic. Sonic is an action adventure platformer that involves going places real fast. (And with physics and environment interaction as well.) If its gonna have combat, atleast combine combat and traversal into one thing and be able to hit foes with your moveset and avoid hits while also being able to go places at the same time. That's how I want it to work. And I don't wanna hear or see people say something like the wyvern boss in frontiers does something like that. No! All you really do is chase after that stupid thing, qtes & cinematics, and then you get stuck one place when you're beating it up, repeat until it's over. (Oh, and more qtes & cinematics.) Not what I want a sonic game to be.
Actually very nice criticism of DMC games and fanbase, I really appreciate the work. But let me give some thoughts: "Dmc 3 has the best Dante Must Die mode"- Yes it is very good and 'almost' perfect in that category, but the enemy DT is really a little too much. Like they get immunity to most knockback and launchers that you have to calculate to get them up or down, on top of getting 3x Health. Sure it makes the Hell Sins and variants fun to fight, but the gimmicky enemies (Spiders, Fallen, Soul Eaters plus Enigmas) turn into cancer bombs. Plus in BP floor 9000 up (90 up if we go by 100 floor route), every, fucking enemy, spawns with DT active, whatever maniac designed this floor really seemed to love slog fights. "Dmc 4 has the most complex and best enemy encounters"- Okay I won't say that the enemies aren't designed around Dante or Nero or whatever, but something I noticed especially after playing all 5 characters in Special Editionk is that there is at least one enemy that each character will struggle with and has little counter abilities. Ex. Blitz is 100% designed for Dante because of the necessary firearm techniques and existence of Pandora weapon, even Lady and Nero can tackle him. But Vergil on the other hand does not have a good firearm, and the only way to remove the cloak is to spam with storm swords 10x or 2 full JCE attacks. Ex 2. It is really difficult to fight the dogs and or Frost with Trish as her abilities don't have much widthspan or damage control, also Frosts in this game just tanks Dante's attacks 90% of the time. Ex 3. Lady sucks at fighting Angelo Knights also you only use charged rockets, she doesn't have other ways to break their shields and can't mid-air counter them. "Dmc5 enemies are braindead and nothing stops your JC techniques"- Absolutely fucking correct on this, several people have pointed this out before but no one has taken them seriously! Air comboing and getting jump canceling are fun, but to the extent of this games leisure is far too much, and when I play even going for full S ranks, I purposely only do minimal air combos and slam foes back to the ground so the other enemies attack and get within my reach. Again, there be a balance and limitations on what you can go to enemies in combat before you must interact with their attacks. Sorry this comment is so long, thanks for reading
@@darkblasterzero4067 >Criticism of the games Not much said about the games. I love all of them. >DMC3 DMD They *do* gain a lot of health as part of the design. Still tho, I mainly use the main campaign as a reference point, as it is the most well thought out and focused part of the experience, while BP is trying to be the edgy hard part that got added a year later into the game. What you're saying is understandable, but only if we're going off a Fresh No Upgrades run. In vanilla (basically NG+ for DMC3), you have a lot of tools that wreck enemies' armors. Bringing them down is not particularly that challenging. It becomes a dance where you're constantly interacting with a moving hurtbox of an enemy. Enigmas would be dangerous and annoying near the start. Later? With the Sniper and all your ranged tools including Nevan? They are not as problematic. I accept the big health pool since I'm used to big grunts requiring you to chip them down. It happens in almost every action game. >DMC4 >Trish >Lady >Vergil All characters added later. Characters that weren't taken into consideration. I'm fine with those not handling the enemies in the best of ways. What matters to me is Dante and Nero. And these two nail down character depth and design in the best of ways possible. It is not so easy to make a game with such complex enemies and STILL make it work for multiple characters. See what DMC5 did? You know why it did the enemies so dirty? To accommodate all 3 characters. V was a big aspect on why the enemies are the way they are. >DMC5 enemies It pains me that I've turned off JC, but the game has gotten a bit more challenging and fun. It pains me becuz it's a staple mechanic of DMC turned way too easy for its own good. It's not just the easiness of the JC. It's the lack of gravity in the air, the launching of every enemy easily, the easy JC, AND the lack of enemy interruption that all work together to make the experience lack the challenge that it's supposed to have.
solid video. the one thing i will say is that once players get a hold of a game, it is out of the devs hands to how people will interact with the systems at hand. this happens a lot in fighting game spaces, mvc2 is a prime example of this with the god characters playing a COMPLETELY different game compared to any character that is below top tier. between movement, neutral, execution, combo structure, etc. dmc suffered from cultural osmosis of how many people played the game in a very combo cenetric way going from dmc3 onward and trickled down to how many people viewed it as such. it could be a number of reasons, possibly the amount of options, the tech found, the execution to control the game and/or how much health certain enemies had so you could do a lot of stuff to them. this comes along with that "expression" people love to talk about, most of it is just the options you are given in any situation and how you go about it. the big takeway is many, many action games, are about efficiency than the hypothetical style ethos people like to tout, tracing back to arcade roots of old beat em ups ala double dragon, final fight, streets of rage, etc. also, ninja gaiden has direction attacks, forward x and forward y exist, they're anywhere from lauchers, to grabs, etc. flying swallow is literally jump forward, hold forward and press the button to do the attack, some are proxy based where how close you are to the enemy. idk why you said that the times you mentioned NG, that is just misinformation even if you were trying to prove a point as to how people preceive dmc vs other games. i have other things i wanna say but it's other tangents and that's my 2 cents on the main subject at hand.
Edit:
Short response to all the senseless and mindless "No one is saying that" type comments:
ua-cam.com/video/KS_cm71ytL4/v-deo.htmlsi=Cm3CDDadjwnPUH9Z
Watch the FULL video and argue with arguments rather than loud words. And if you're not like the fans in the video, then SURPRISE, IT'S NOT TARGETING YOU.
.
.
The description is important, and try to understand the points before starting up a fight in the comments.
And if you wanna discuss some stuff formally, the comments are open.
whats the name of the song at 10:00 ibe spent months looking for it
Cant you switch weaooons in dmc1 with the right stick
I love thinking about the player-game design relationships so this was a very fun watch for me and I loved writing long, self-aggrandizing/indulgent comments about it. Thanks!
(I hope you read my comments and respond if you feel like it too, *in the event there's anything up with it)
I prefer the classic/Greek Era of God Of War’s stylishness over the DMC series’s, down to artsiness.
@@WaterCursor51I like the chemistry of your comment. The sentences compliment the grammar, and the grammar compliments the punctuation in a very beautiful way. By far, my favorite arc was the sarcasm. Truly awesome storytelling on your end.
Let me know what you think about my reply above. Thanks!
The worst part about liking dmc is the fact other people like it too
Sure but...what game doesn't that apply to at this point?
...its sad that it's gotten to that point, but that's the internet.
Based
@@thatboyandhismusic88 could you elaborate what you mean by this? Sounds like hipsterism to me but i wanna be clear.
@@laffycade3151 it is just hipsterism lol, bordering on gatekeeping the franchise.
The points made in this video boil down to "people love DMC so much that they're sad the aspects which make DMC great are not present in other games."
And that's understandable, really, in this modern landscape where games are built for profit instead of passion.
The people saying that DMC combat is better because it's more complex can't even utilize half of Dante's kit
Exactly. I’m casual at these and admit that Devil May cry is my favorite spectacle fighter.
It still is
It's a tale as old as time. The more someone praises a game - the more they suck at actually playing it. The best DMC players I've known don't even consider DMC their top game.
or the people who doesn´t have that skills, but are fans of players like Donguri.
@@MarinetteDupainCheng564 half skills of dante are uronic are useless,like firework only geting use for dante boss fight because everyone prefer use the sword to create knowback .
I pretty much agree with most of your points but there are also a few things that I dont agree with. I dont think dmc is really about efficiency until dmd, the games are usually about player expression which is why the game encourages u to use different moves, weapons, and style. Combos can be under expression so I get why some people can whine and cry about some of the enemies to an extent, but I also think dealing with specific enemies in one way doesnt necessarily make them good in some of the dmc games (or in this niche little sub genre we have) if they have u sitting around doing nothing or dont allow you to be expressive to some extent. Blitz, the fallen, soul eater, infected chimera, and a ton of other enemies in the series are bad because they either have u sitting around or they have u going up against a specific gimmick on every playthrough that isnt fun and doesnt allow for much player expression or creativity. Not sayin they need to be combo food though because there are definitely enemies that arent that are really fun.
Everything else is pretty on point to me. Im glad you made this because it really has been getting annoying seeing ppl put dmc5 on this and expecting every game to follow its design choices. hope this vid blows up brother, you deserve it.
Yo BeeG. Big love.
The whole 'Self Expression' talk I get. But I'm lost with the part where you daid "unless it's DMD".
Isn't that the most focused on difficulty of the game (A.K.A: THE difficulty)?
Isn't the hardest difficulty of action games what defines them? That's where the enemy aggro is at its truest. The enemy management, too.
As for the rest, I don't understand how the gimmicky enemies only have one way.
I SAY Blitz can be this and that, but believe it or not, I left out some other ways you could deal with them.
Sharks getting shot out with Charge Shots? Well, skillful enough? Bait them to come out and hit them with the Lucifer clap thing (whatever it's called).
If the hardest difficulty requires efficiency, then it is what it is. Self expression is a helluva drug. I like doing that, but only when knowing what I'm doing. KNOWING I'm in control (so basically, after all the enemy management, prioritization, elimination, and such).
Fallen? Why is this enemy bad? Doesn't every action game have 'that one enemy' that requires chipping? Make the chipping fun, then. Set them up with A&R's hidden BIG DAH MIJ tecc. The whole 'Style - Backwards style mash' for them to "get rekt".
Sky's the limit. Some enemies are not good. I flat out hate them. Every game has atleast one or two opps that I just don't like. It's fair if you dislike enemies.
I'm just saying, some enemies (like Blitz) have way too much depth to be disliked just becuz you can't style'em, or that the efficiency approach is limited (it's not. RG cancels, up close shotty damage, Pandora opening, Lucifer approach, and Drive setups are SOME that I can mention). The fact that Blitz switches up your moment to moment encounter approach, the fact that it attacks all its comrades, the fact that it rises up the danger in the encounter... just awesome.
You don't think DMC is about efficiency until DMD? Congrats. That's every game. Horsing around is achieved in every game in lesser difficulty options. It's just that hardest difficulties are the true above all.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 As far as the highest difficulty argument I can see what you're saying when its other action games but itsuno has talked before about how he wants the lower difficulties (mainy son of sparda or very hard) to be a sort of sandbox for players and dmd to be something you actually have to play efficiently in. Even dmc5, the easiest dmc is like this to some extent despite most of the enemies being combo food.
As for the bad enemies argument you can definitely deal with blitz, in different ways but its very limited since blitz punishes you for using mostly physical attacks. I saw your friends video as well and some of the tech are very specific things that the average player wouldnt know about.Its why i prefer dmc5's version of it. Same idea but you can do things like learn its parry timings or attack when its combo is finished.
As for the fallen i really dont understand your defense of it. it phases through walls and can hit you off screen when you cant reach it with any of your moves, regardless of "chip damage".
All the enemies im complaining about are ones where you just sit and do nothing until you can hit them or you have to use a certain playstyle to beat them.
I get where youre coming from with these points but you also have to come in with the perspective of someone who isnt gonna use all these super high level tools to beat the enemies that are there. You even said that most people come in with the idea that they should be able to do combos in every game even when theyre not at the level of the players that theyre watching. I think the same statement can and should be applied to some of the bad enemies that people bring up when theyre not at the level to do stuff like "royal guard shot gun cancel" blitz to kill him.
All assessment of bad enemy design kinda goes out of the window when you go "well you coulda just done the most high level thing you didnt know about"
@@BeeGBoss >Itsuno
That's interesting. Didn't know he said that. Just going with a big rule of action games and how the highest difficulty is the truest way. And if he said that, then as I said, that's nearly every action game.
>Prefers DMC5
I suppose you mean Fury. What an enemy that is, right?
I love Fury a bit more than Blitz, too. But you do realize he *is* the same philosophy as Blitz. A bit toned down, but same approach. Perhaps not as much of a threat, but it is the same way of handling. You attack him when the game says "attack now".
>Fallen
>Me defending them
It stems from a simple perspective, BeeG. Action games have brutes that require chipping. It just is what it is. Them going through walls is one of my favorite aspect. Becuz you actually have to move to a right position to fight them now (where they don't phase into somewhere unfavorable). They circle around you and the gimmick is to stay close to them as much as possible (you attack AS they're attacking **and missing** you, but you can also vary your attacks). They switch up the momentum from the average encounter. The atmosphere of the whole encounter switches.
>Certain play style to beat them
If you want every play style to work on every enemy, then why isn't every enemy one of the 7 sins in DMC3?
And how are you 'sitting and doing nothing' against Blitz? Aren't you supposed to position yourself correctly all the time? Aim for the other enemies and leave him for last? Avoid him being a wholeass stage hazard with his deadly attacks? And finding openings for a shotgun blast up close?
It goes the same for others. You're never *truly* doing nothing. Fallen? You're supposed to keep close until they do their helicopter cyclonic attack. You CAN attack your way into that safe zone if you want. Sky's the limit.
Anticipating an attack is also something you do.
You're taking this as a dreamlike 1v1 situation where you and the Fallen (or any other enemy for that matter) are alone in the Void? Cuz that's not how you encounter them in the game's campaign or BP (except for *maybe* the first time when you meet them).
>Where I'm coming from
BeeG. Big dawg. Brother.
First playthroughs are one thing. You play however you want.
Now going into them thinking you're SUPPOSED to cambaw cuhrayzee? That's another thing.
I am... NOT asking people to know about something so extreme, like RG Gilga cancels on Blitz's armor, no. That's unrealistic. Leave that for mastery work way later.
For now? You're early into this game.
A normal mindset would've gone like "Okay. How do I solve this enemy's puzzle? Oh. Shotgun works from up close the same way Charge Shots worked with Nero from afar."
A 'stylish cambaw' mindset would go "Not this annoying enemy again" rather than pinning with Lucifer instead to just find out how convenient the enemy is (not easy. Convenient).
When Dante shows a video with 'convenient' strats that can be done by anybody, that's one thing.
When you watch Donguri who's OVERMASTERED the game, do some multiversal shit to an enemy (mostly unintended and obscure strats), that's another thing.
RG Gilga Cancels on Blitz? A hard obscure strat.
Close by Shotgun shots? Is that even a strat? Nope. That's a convenient on the nose approach.
>You coulda
No. Not *coulda.* Not THAT past tense.
You *COULD* try X. We're talking in the now.
Someone comes out of a bad experience? It's not all lost. What's stopping them from going back to the game (and potentially LOVING the thing they hated **like what happened to me with DMC4)?
I had that "DMC4 journey" back in the days of old. When I thought learning and mastering the game was to style, style, style, and style. It's all documented in the oldest vids of my channel. Hilarious! Funny display of trying to mimic stuff that only a guy who knows the game does (for fun and goofing around).
Blitz sucks? You can't style? Here's the solution? Don't like the solution? Video above.
Nothing's lost on one's way to mastery. You could simply... turn the console on again and play again. If one comes out of a game hating something about it, then gets convinced of a way to bypass the problem, they CAN ideally turn the console (sorry for assuming the platform. PC, whatever) and the game on again.
Failure and despising something is all a part in learning. I remember getting into MGR and something just WOULD. NOT. CLICK.
I later learned how to combat it all, leading to me falling in love with the game more and more. A combat guide is up on the channel now. I FORCED it to click.
Same with DMC4. I hated DMC4's enemies the same way back then. Same story. Down to the last bit of detail.
You're a guy that knows all this. You know everything I just spoke of.
But what about the people just getting into DMC4? Or DMC as a whole.
is that BeeG?
@@BeeGBoss Never expected you to pull up, nice to see you’re not a DUMMY.
>stylish is not the name of hack n slash games
>dressed extremely stylish as he is the most sylish man alive
Yeah, I see nothing wrong here.
???
@@starbirds007 ...WHAT?
@@HajjDoDo What 'WHAT'? I didn't understand what your comment meant.
@@starbirds007 >not understanding
''Stylish is not the name of hack n slash games'' meaning doing CUHRAYZEE combos and being SUPAH STYLISH is not what hack n slash are about, GODDAMNIT WHAT THE HELL IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!
Gotta feed into the brand of the channel.
Its sad to see how 90% of the dmc subreddit doesn’t even want to watch your video and just insult you. That shows how toxic the dmc community actually can be. You were right with absolutely everything you said and you still get hated for it. The Injustice is insane
It's not sad. Eventually they will watch it. And if they don't, you can't save everybody. Mfers are out here thinking I'm literally going against the entire fanbase. How am I to do that when I myself am a PART OF THE FANBASE?
They even read the title wrong most of them. And they didn’t stop there. They read the title wrong AND went with it.
Devil May Cry 1 is genuinely underrated. It might not have the flashiest combos but it doesn’t need them it has other things that it does far better then the rest of the franchise like aesthetic and level design but younger dmc fans don’t care for it simply because it’s not as flashy as dmc5. I’m so glad your giving it the credit it deserves
DMC 3 has better level design and aesthetics. The aesthetics argument is actually very subjective. You're basically saying a is better than b because you feel like you like a better. Generally, people that say DMC 1 is better because of a couple annoying DMC 3 enemies (that are pretty easy to deal with actually) and so-called "atmosphere" are just delusional and want to feel unique and stand out from the crowd by overpraising a less popular thing just because the other thing gets too much praise.
@@evgenyomeginYou couldn't be more wrong lmao
Dude i got into DMC like last year and while DMC1 wasn't as fast-paced as 3 was, i absolutely fucking love the vibe DMC1 has, the Castle OST is my favorite track from the entire series, the camera angles, the weapon-get animations, the menus... it drew me in like a magnet.
@@evgenyomeginwrong as hell playing the series since i was 4 years old when DMC3 came out i still think DMC1 is the most unique of all DMC game its pure old school Capcom right there
@@evgenyomegin wrong as hell playing the series since i was 4 years old when DMC3 came out i still think DMC1 is the most unique of all DMC game its pure old school Capcom right there
True. Everytime I play dark souls I have to just stop because there is no Dante. I then immediately feel compelled to drop a negative review on steam talking about how shallow and easy the game is. I then move to social media to shit out 200 tweets on why DMC will always be king. I can't work a single day of my job without planning out DMC combos in my head. Please delete video I feel called out.
Fun fact: Berserk got inspired by Dark souls and it’s also the hardest game ever made
@@DionPanday Funner fact numero 2, DMC 3 was also inspired by Dark Souls Berserk, sword of the Guts' rage on the Dreamcast. That game is a sequel to Pong on the pong machine from the 1970s which is a rip off of board games which were invented by anime.
Also DMC 2 invented anime which lead to the great DmC: Angel May Cry mode in Bayonetta, which lead to Hideki Kamiya sueing Elon Musk for removing the block button on twitter since Kamiya pressed block too many times on people sending silly pictures to him
Yeah man. I was planning rock paper scissors the other day and was like "this is good and all...but you know what it's missing? Dante."
@@DionPandayNG is still the hardest difficulty in action combat game, well NG black on master ninja
@@crisschan2463 bro never learned about sarcasm 💀
I am a hardcore Devil May Cry fan, but I like it when action games try to be different and unique from each other.
fr it would be so boring if every game was the same but just different title or made by different company
Goated Sekiro pfp
@@rakhoo5236 YOOOOOOOOO, NICE
I see this a lot with Nioh 2 fans. They think it's the best game ever, but see the games after it, like Stranger of Paradise and Rise of the Ronin as inferior due to not being as complex. Which is ironic cause Nioh itself is just a grounded version of Ninja Gaiden.
DMC 3 is really misunderstood by alot of people, the game allow you freedom in limitation, without limitation there is no real freedom, for alot of people they think 2 weapon is limited, for me its good because its allow for character build, and you actually think what the best strat you can use in every stage in the game because different stage has different efficient build and because of that DMC 3 is balance and challenging game. I see DMC 3 not as combo simulator game but as 3D beat em up game with extra content
The ammount of funny stuff I can do in DMC3 is *chef's kiss*. I can attack Dullahans from the front with RoyalRelease, pulling Abyss in with KalinaAnn causes them to jump away from you, the putting down animation of Hysteric deals damage, I can heal myself on the spinning blades using Ultimate(lvl3 RG move), Vergil taunts alongside us during the 2nd half of the Arkham fight, ect. Basically DMC3 allows the player to do much more than just juggling 5-7 enemy types out of 16 non-boss enemies(no boss can be launched as far as I know).
@@Amatt0 true, DMC 3 is more than juggling enemies, its a game with excellent game design and dev trying to give freedom but still in limit to balance every single aspect of the game, some enemies cant be juggled it mean normal method cant be use again them, so its encourage players to actually think how to deal with them just like game design in beat em up
I think this is a pretty solid video that has a lot of points that mirror how I feel about the DMC fanbase in a lot of areas. But one thing I wanna point out is the "There was no combo genre until DMC5 existed" point. I'm not sure if I agree with it entirely.
While it's true that DMC1 isn't about comboing I would argue that DMC3's approach to combat emphasizes style and combo variety due to the way that the style meter functions as well as the devs even acknowledging the fanbase that were making combo videos way back in 2005 after DMC3: Dante's Awakening. They did this by including a video called "Crazy Gameplay" that you unlock within the extra's content. I'd like to believe that the main point of DMC3 is to play in your own way and be expressive about it, which is why you're given a lot of weapons and styles throughout each game.
I wouldn't say there was an entire genre strictly about combos back then but there was definitely some form of style acknowledgment from the DMC devs.
Yo Chase.
Thanks for viewing the video and sharing your thoughts about it.
I guess the point I was making was comboing the way DMC5 allows. As I do show demos later in the video we're under, where I also explain that DMC3 *DOES* allow for amazing combo showcase, but absolutely NOTHING like the way people gas it. It's not even a shot at DMC3 (shown by how much I praise it and even would understand if someone had it as their absolute favorite thing of all time).
DMC had combos back with DMC3, and I'm not over here saying "No one should be allowed to combo!". I even state in the video that you're free to do that, but learning the enemies and efficient tools is what comes first.
People are viewing this as a DMC hate video (when it's not). It is what it is. Thanks for commenting.
>style meter is an incentive to styling (varying your combos)
Valid, ever since DMC3 it was a thing, but you can still pull the sickest of combos and the game will hand a B or an A at you.
The meter responds to that, no doubt, but it responds even greater to crowd control and high dmg, which is even more emphasized by crazy combos and how they interact with the meter.
Drive, dance, million stabs, tempest, all of these affect the meter way better than combos, same with commitment multi hits attacks.
While the meter rewards variations, crowd control and dmg via multi hits is still the fastest way to do, which happens to be efficient.
>combos were a thing since 3, combo mada in the gallery
Obviously was part of DMC since 3, no game reaches DMC in terms of pure combo creativity, bayonetta is a close 2nd id say, but DMC rules this bit.
Tho i wont say it was for the entire experience, not even on normal, most DMC3 combo MADs are in M2 or M7 in the summoners arena, most enemies on DMD wont allow that, on VH it is decently reasonable to combo most of them if you're good.
Combos were always a huge part of DMC since DMC3, but it was never infront due to enemy design, stylish efficiency was always the main meal, even if no game comes close to DMC's (4, reboot and 5) combo potential.
@@DanteTMed2 I wasn't implying it's the focus of DMC3, but it's part of the design.
Even with crazy combos, you can't repeat the same one over and over again, which is why I say "style and combo variety". DMC in general nudges the player to use different moves instead of only one. Efficiency in DMC3 cannot exist without variety and vice versa if you want to get S ranks.
@@ChaserTech gotcha gotcha
As someone who played dmc5 nearly 15 times and played most of the other games in the series, damn he got a point
Also i'd like to point out that the dmc5 player base really likes to hate on V's gameplay for the same reason they hate on other games' gameplay, while V is actually the most unique addition to the game imo
Also with dmc5 being a void simulator, this statement really shines when you compare other parts of them game outside combat to other games, like the level traversal, the platforming, the level design
@@elexterminadordedemonios4320 This.
Most of the dislike towards V stems from exactly that. I like playing as V, but he is not void of criticism. As enemies have WAY too much HP on DMD and they didn’t tweak it for V.
Well to be real with I can't help but agree with most of the points made in this video I'm not gonna lie a problem that I do have with alot of the Fandom on twitter is that they all want every game to be Devil May Cry even when it comes to hack n slash and every other video game with a combat system
Ohhhhh what, no way The Devil Joe himself is here!
@Hedron1027 when ever DMC is mentioned I find myself on the scene
Funny enough, I know there's gonna be a monkey's paw effect from this since that's how franchises work. DMC 5 was super successful so Capcom will make more low effort DMC cash ins ala. DMC PoC and since Itsuno is gone, he will not be supervising whatever they come out with next of course.
And ironically some of these people will be the first to cry that creativity is dead and everything is saturated
@@WaterCursor51 That's another Dark fate for the franchise I want it to continue but in high quality not like assasins creed where it becomes a cash grab
Uhm devil may cry fan here and I’ll agree that some “dmc fans” say this crap about Devil may cry is better then GOW, NG, Bayo etc. and unfortunately most that say this is now most are the new “dmc fans”(dmc5 newcomers) that spread this crap it’s bizarre but it happens.
Heard most of it from the DMC4 crowd
I doubt it's just the new fans. The rivalry between dmc and gow is an old one so old fans have been saying such shit too tbh.
@laffycade3151 it's the new crowd carry what the reboot and some of the old dmc fans said years ago.
It really is better than GOW tho lmao. Better than the new one definitely
@@Breakaway-ic5gjninja gaiden better
The DMC fandom is the One Piece fandom of video games, and I won't explain what I mean.
trying to prove their series is superior every time someone says [insert action game] is their favorite? yeah i get you
@@JJunkWarrior based, my friend.
Or the Berserk/seinen fandom of video games
Also Dark Souls fans suffer from the same issue as DMC fans: Superiority complex
@@jaccblacc8424 berserk is like flawless dmc 2 exists
I think the internet is convinced that if a game doesn't have like 500 combos it is completely mindless and trash.
I moved away from 2D beat em ups like Streets of Rage 2 because of this mindset, but now I love those games again because I got rid of this limiting mindset.
@@thebrodator well said
@@thebrodator it is indeed such a limited mindset that ruined so many games for me
Growing up as a gow fan, seeing all the hate spewed by the dmc fans made me insecure about the combat system. Only as i grew up and heard various interesting opinions and analysis did i learn to better appreciate different combat systems instead of limiting to dmc combat and holding it on the pedestal
SOR4 is easily the most complex 2D beat em up, so I am skeptical of your comment.
@@DragoonCenten I am referring to Streets of Rage 2, I actually haven't played Streets of Rage 4 yet (I would like to try it though).
In retrospect I should have probably made it more clear
Streets of rage 2 is amazing.
Also, I really recommend fight n rage, one of the best beat em ups in my opinion (although this one has combos, they are closer to a fighting game than dmc combos, where they are much more strict and specific)
This happened with the DOOM and Ultrakill fan bases am I fan of DOOM and especially the 2 new games but I get Ultrakill fan boys telling me DOOM isn't as good as Ultrakill because it's not as stylish.
It can be stylish if your good, it just has the extra challenge of ammo management whereas ultrakill is about sending nukes at your enemies and going ballistic without having to worry about ammo so you can do those insane ballistic combos
@@NamelessCrusad3r yes it definitely can but Ultrakill and DOOM are going for two different feels Ultrakill is stylish and free form DOOM is more about efficient brutality. Both are good games but for different reasons.
@@GutsOfRivia yes
@@NamelessCrusad3rNah. I have 300 Hours on Doom Eternal and like 60 on UltraKill.
DE is one of my favorite game of All time.
The ammo management of Doom eternal is a non issue if you are constantly wrapon switching (And have the upgrades).
It takes some practice, but doing pb-something else loop is much more mindless then what you need for Ultrakill.
Note that I'm not saying that Ultrakill is better. Just has a higher skill cealing.
Uktrakill strats are hard to perform by themselves and to be able to rocket ride and coin deflect mid combat with all the chaos consistently is something much harder then DE.
Ultrakill is more complex. That doesn't make DE bad.
Plus, the meathook is so fucking great it makes up the difference. Imo, It's better then Ultrakills grapling because you can swing and not just line movement.
I fucking love it.
You have a point but I think you're being a bit uncharitable with DMC5. Most of the issues with DMC5 arise from abusing jump cancel, since enemies do a poor job at anti airing. if you don't abuse jump canceling the game becomes less boring since you engage with enemies more. So it's a balancing problem. But let's not pretend these other action games don't have huge balancing problems that simplify strategy too. Ninja Gaiden Razors Edge becomes boring when you abuse 360 scythe spam. Ninja Gaiden 2 is UT spam at high level, which isn't as interesting as having to use the full extent of your kit. The game becomes more one note when it becomes UT spam. Same with Ninja Gaiden Black. DMC4 does a better job with anti airing enemies but a decent amount still struggle to actually counter you really well while being 50 feet in the air. You mention how it's hard to do it with DMC4 Dante (which I don't think is a good defense for poor balancing) but also completely neglect how easy it is to do it with Nero by spamming snatch. A lot of character action games have terrible balancing similar to DMC5. I think it'd be more fair if you actually acknowledged the faults of the other games too instead of completely ignoring them and acting like DMC5 is the only one with a balancing problem here
The balancing problems are inevitable anyway since every problem in a game like that needs to have a solution unless the point of your game is to be unbeatable. When you know the solution to a problem, that's it dealt with. DMC 5 is going to feel very easy when you put thousands of hours into it. DMC 5 has crossed the threshold for the series into being noticeably overhyped in that sense since loads of people ignore that it gets boring after a hundred or so hours. You figure out how to do mad stuff abusing jump cancelling and have fun with that for a bit *THEN* you turn it off and start doing challenge runs and so on if you want.
Thing is, DMC 5 is massively praised because of it's accessibility but some people either won't want to acknowledge that or instead they'll talk about it like it's a bad thing and that it's "pandering". We have this concept of "skill floor" and "skill ceiling" the devs for DMC 5 openly talked about lowering the floor; that can make reaching the ceilling feel less satisfying (since the floor and ceiling thing is a bad analogy, the ceiling stays in the same place). It's more like the challenge is a climb from bottom to top, there's a level of steepness to it to factor in as well as the point you start your journey. Not everybody comes at a game as a genre newbie who barely understands the controls. There are conventions and many people playing DMC 5 were very familiar with them so it felt patronising when the game came out and was easier to get into than 4
Game design is very difficult to juggle pleasing everybody, you piss off people with a weird superiority complex by making things easier to start for example but also people who like the experience of having their ass handed to them first for the catharsis of beating the game later. The latter might've gotten that experience playing DMC 3 for the first time when they were younger but don't get it from 5 and miss that even if they find juggling enemies at the height of the ceiling in DMC 5 fun (to some extent)
Very long response but this is complicated - and fun to talk about for me.
DMC5 physics cater DmC and classic DMC4 into play, hence jump cancels and aerial attack are easier to pull off than DMC3/4
Everything is slowed down (but not close to DmC)
Because the game is trying to appeal to all types of player of the genre, casual -> hardcore, and you can see the pattern on just even the difficulty options
And I see why it is designed that way, obviously for more people to play it
DMC5 is certainly one with the MOST balancing issues. No one is saying other games don't have balancing problems.
And your argument didn't exactly bring a solution to DMC5's pathetic enemies (which, btw, it's a HUGE thing if your enemy design is the main flaw of your game. That goes beyond "balancing issues", but whatever). Mine did. Turning off JC did the trick. What are you gonna do with JC on, NOT abuse it? What are we even doing at this point?
I get self limitation. I do it in games that have totally broken stuff. I don't use Faust's Room Nuker attacks or any attack of the Faust besides some balanced ones (The Snatch).
You also brought up how DMC4 has some enemies that allow you to juggle high in the air, but didn't mention how much harder that it is when compared to DMC5. Both in the sense that you have to open up enemies, in the sense that you don't have AS MUCH easy launchers, in the sense that JC is harder, and in the sense that enemies either air escape (a lot of them do) or other enemies below intercept.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 That's what's tricky about criticizing these action games. A bunch of them are so poorly balanced that you have to do self imposed challenges to have more fun with them. If I played Ninja Gaiden to the point where I can route UT spams then is the game not good either? Why would I use anything else when UT spam is much more efficient. NG is funny in that regard the games have a ton of moves but most of them are either insanely situational or completely useless, so you'll fall back to a small but very versatile set of core moves.
On MN you just plain don't have time to use a lot of the fancier moves and will just stick to good short combos and utility moves like on landing ones, 360 moves, UT spam, sometimes a shuriken. A large chunk of your toolkit ends up ignored and the game becomes less interesting if I play for efficiency. Should I too NOT abuse them? Same with DMC5 once you get good enough and buy enemy step. It feels to me that we're all just messing around and not realizing a lot of these games end up being not as well thought out once you find optimal efficient strats. Its a similar issue that DMC5 has
This is definitely more of a niche thing that I’m sure annoys some people, but ultimately has not much of a broader impact. The REAL problem with this kinda thing is with the Souls games, the amount of glazers surrounding them are genuinely the reason we aren’t getting great character action games like we used to. That’s part of the reason people love DMC5 so much as well, hack n slashes have felt like a dying breed for a while, since literally everything is a souls-like now.
The reason is because souls likes are much easier to make and less complex for people to get into. Instead of learning character's moveset, playing around with canceling and different mechanics, people tend to go for the amount of content and more popular art direction whereas DMC is stuck to 20 missions per game and release cycle being 10+ years.
The Souls-like problem is a whole other subject. And you're right. It IS a bigger problem than the one I'm talking about.
Still tho, the above had to be cleared up.
DMC fans are like fromsoft fans they think their franchise is so good that they cannot stand when someone praise other action games
couldn't agree more
@DANAR-ne3cn yes it's true especially twitter folk they got confused when I told them that not every game that has a light and heavy attacks and a dodge button are soulslike like bruh they forget that souls are generally a sub genre in the action RPG genre
@@lightmohamed5700hey, its so good it became its own sub genre
@@lightmohamed5700if every game that has health/mana(magic)/light-heavy attacks/dodges-rolls then God of war is souls like... Tell them this next time and see them understand that action rpg and souls like games are different... And if they still don't understand let them play only from soft games... Their loss
LMAO, 100%. What frustrates me is that FromSoft fans tend to overlook both the aspects of other amazing games because they succeed in ways that Soulsborne does not (for example, action game franchises). Even in the realm of Soulslikes, I think that Nioh 2 does quite a few things better than the Souls franchise (and quite a few things worse) that I often see many Souls fans overlook because they're just treating it as another Dark Souls entry rather than its own thing that takes influence from it. Sadly, I think that due to FromSoft games' fanbase, Nioh 2 is seen as "like Dark Souls, but..." instead of just another game with its own strengths, weaknesses, and goals.
Not to mention, many "Soulsborne veterans" often use having played the games (which honestly are not all that hard anyways) as ammunition to avoid being criticized for not properly learning another game's mechanics which is comically frustrating.
"It's not like Dark Souls/DMC/etc." is also kind of a non-criticism too. I think it's fair to point out where one game falls short and another does something better, that is fundamentally different from what I outlined above. This sort of mentality kills innovation within the industry. Additionally, it prevents the person making that criticism from branching out and learning to appreciate different styles or aspects of games which is severely limiting for them.
I have two things to say:
1) jump canceling won't save you from fury in Dmc5, you have to deal with him first to fight freely.
2) dealing with Dmc4 enemies isn't straight forward like most Dmc3 enemies which confused me and a good chunk of the fans, and it's much harder to see enemy attacks in Dmc4 than in Dmc3.
The first point gets me to talk about something, and it's that I adore some enemies in 5. Fury, Judeca (spawner), Behemoth, fat guys with axes, and Nobodies are awesome enemies.
Some of the above can still fall victim to air camping, but especially not Fury. Fury is top tier enemy design for me. He switches up the gameplay SO well. Truly fantastic, yes. I agree.
I, however, did not understand your point regarding DMC4 enemies. What exactly is the issue? If you're talking stage 40+ in BP, then I get it. The rest? DMC4 does a nice job with its art style, where things are shiny and pop up clearly.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 I was talking mostly about trying to royal guard enemies in dmc4 which I found harder than dmc3 and dmc5 because enemies Don't telegraph their attacks as well, at least that was my experience.
@@Cyferno Guess it's a DMC4 thing. The window is extremely small for whatever reason.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 Hell yeah, another Fury lover.
I love Fury so much, they're easily the best enemy in the game (the bar isn't high, but still), they're like Blitz, but better.
@@Cyfernofor me DMC 5 is the hardest to do royal guard simply because the enemy attacks are SO SLOW and most of them are combo dummies so you're not really encouraged to use Royal Guard. Compare that to DMC 4 where the enemies/bosses are aggresive, have fast attacks, AND anti air attacks that you have to dodge. DMC 3 also has enemies that do really fast charging attacks (and also Hell Vanguards who can parry your attacks).
I loved the video, you have great points and arguments and I agree with many of them, but I also disagree with some.
5:24 You are right in parts, especially in relation to DMC 1, but in the case of DMC 3, under the direction of itsuno DMC started to follow a style similar to that of fighting games mixed with what we saw in DMC 1. One of the things that you release in the gallery along with concept arts is literally a combo video made by the developers, they even show jump cancel and DT explosion in the video. After I saw this on the PS2 I started experimenting more with the game's combat, I even started using quicksilver and doppelganger.
10:43 I agree with this. My opinions regarding mods are quite controversial, not only for DMC, but for other games as well. I literally die inside whenever I see someone saying that Skyrim is unplayable without mods. In the case of DMC, using mods to change skins or graphical improvements doesn't bother me, but in the case of the style switcher it's complicated. I argue that DMC 3 should have style and we received it but unfortunately only on the Switch. And they did a great job, you have the option of playing the vanilla game or using the style switcher, and honestly, I have a lot more fun with style switching, things that I rarely use, like gunslinger, are much better to use without having to sacrifice part of the arsenal. Going back to the mods, I don't like that in the PC style switcher mod you have access to quicksilver and doppelganger while using another style. In DMC 5 mods, then, if I see in a video the mod that transforms Dante's aerial taunt into quicksilver or the darkslayer mod, I immediately drop it from the video.
Other things like changing devil breakers at will is something that goes against what the game wants. One of my favorite things about DMC is how they manage to express the characters' personalities through their gameplay, and Nero destroying his arms is literally a demonstration of his explosive personality.
And also, Devil breakers being consumable was one of the best things they ever did because it eliminates one of the biggest problems that DMC, and other hack n slash had, which is that the orbs are useless when you buy everything.
Another thing, the mod that lets you play with any character in any mission. THERE IS A REASON why this wasn't implemented in the game. One of the main criticisms of DMC 4 is that you played with Dante in Nero's missions, if that's a problem there, why do you want that again in 5? Another thing, Nero has the graple system, how are you going to get through these parts with Dante or V if they weren't planned for this part.
Another thing is that if you use this mod in mission 4, you can hitkill Nidhogg using Dante, so this alone shows why this was not included in the game.
14:08 As I said before, I advocate changing styles and changing weapons in DMC 3. Let's say you're playing on very hard/DMD and you made a specific set up for an encounter in the mission, it could be at the end or the beginning, and then You find yourself in a room with an enigma. You don't have swordmaster to use sword pierce or you're not equipped with spiral/Kalina ann to knock back them, so good luck trying to kill them while they run away whenever you get close, and even when you're attacking, your life is melted away by the fucking red spears that they charge without paying attention to your attacks, and it is unpredictable when they will shoot. What? You're facing the fallen and you don't have any weapon with a good air attack without swordmaster, patience to face these shitty enemies that keep moving away from you and passing through walls.
17:12 Something I loved that you brought up, the whole "Dante wasn't planned to be in DMC 4" "DMC 4 is a Nero game" "enemies weren't designed for Dante" thing. Something I think about, and I mention another point that you bring up later is the grab mechanic. People are held hostage by the devil bringer and when they go for a character that doesn't have a button that makes the game play itself they think it's bad. I add this to other hack slash that use this mechanic. i think tha the grab mechaninc helped propagate the whole "button mash" argument for HAS games..
Dante is my favorite character in any action game precisely because he doesn't have grabs.
20:14 something that chaser tech mentioned in his video and I completely agree
25:28 I disagree a lot with this. I've seen a lot of videos of people doing combos in DMC 3 without mods and without a trainer or in a controlled environment, that's exactly where "freestyle" came from. I recommend you watch some videos of the DarkSlayer9320 channel.
In the end, I play a game by its own rules. I agree that some DMC fans have this mistaken view of other action games, and as I said, I agree with some of youe arguments.
Something I would say is the "main" subject of the video, style vs efficiency. As I said in my first topic, DMC 3 and 4 at least are the perfect mix of the two. Paraphasing another video I saw, in Devil May Cry, style is efficiency.
The game gives you the tools and you choose what to do with them. Do you want efficiency, style, both? your choice.
Sorry for any English mistakes. I'm better at listening than speaking/writing.
Love this comment, most thorough and thoughtful response out the ones I've seen. I agree; although I don't view the modding and opening up games to an absurd level as too big of a problem though. I do take issue with people saying shit about "DMC 3 is unplayable without style switcher DDMK" since it's just false and will lead to people installing DDMK for a first playthrough when that's totally not necessary at all. Mods like DDMK are just for satisfying people's curiosity about what style switching and all weapons at once is like in DMC 3, nothing wrong with having fun with that in any single player game.
Bethesda games are pretty different when it comes to modding because you are *beyond* spoiled for choice. Skyrim isn't literally unplayable without mods, it's just that it's very boring to a lot of people without them and myself included. I don't even like Skyrim that much more with mods lol
Mods/romhacks can make the game harder, easier, add QoL, rebalance, what these things are really is pretty subjective. I love to have mods on DMC 5 because I'm not satisfied with the recolours and I like using mods to have alternate skins for the characters to have a wider variety to look at. Some mods for DMC 5 change the gameplay a lot, having access to those types of mods opens up the game in ways that make it fun for people who struggle to find fun in the flaws presented by games like this sometimes. Skyrim wouldn't have it's staying power without mods that can also alter gameplay. I like Fallout NV/TTW mods a whole lot for that reason too!
PC gaming has so many factors to it these days and it's a true privilege to have access to so many great games coming out *AND* fan translations of old games so few got to play before. It's awesome!
Combos are a core part of DMC's identity but it's not everything and most Devil May Cry games aren't just gonna hand you stylish combos, I do think you're downplaying the potential for combos in vanilla DMC3, swordmaster was made for people who liked air combos in marvel vs Capcom/anime fighters even on DMD, you can create some really unique and cool combos if you take the time to learn and get good, I do agree with most of your takes here, Ninja Gaiden isn't one of the greatest games ever made because it's the closest to capturing Devil May Cry's "stylish magic" or whatever, it's peak because it's doing something else entirely and nailing it, I would also partially blame the term "character action" for making people think that every action game needs DMC jump cancel combos because it erroneously insists that these games are related and you should expect similar things from all of them, with the only qualification for this subgenre being "can you make a combo video with it"
I really feel you. As someone who plays D3nte with Gunslinger I’m tired of always hearing everyone saying it’s the most useless style in the game because “the game wasn’t meant to be focusing on guns” who decided that 😂😂😂 the most efficient strategy in DMC1 was spamming the grenade gun and then spam air raid , but these people convinced themselves DMC can only be played with sword combos that they don’t even realize the point of gunslinger is the charge shot they’re always saying “gunslinger is the same as swordsmaster but with guns which makes it useless” which is simply not true 😭😭 so many sections and enemies in the game that they hate could’ve been easily beaten with gunslinger but they’ll never try it because they want their rebellion air combo so bad
I feel you. Doing a revolver with Cerberus on an enemy while holding the shoot button, jump canceling halfway and letting go of the shoot button to release a BARRAGE of charged shots never gets old. Or Wild Stomp. Or the things you can do with the Sniper.
The styles have a lot of depth to stand out on their own.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 yeah sadly in every video covering dmc3 I’ve watch everyone was saying how bad it useless gunslinger was which gives the style such a bad reputation for no other reason than the UA-camr couldn’t be bothered to learn 😂😂 I’ve watched Kbash video where he straight up said “don’t pick gunslinger” like damn I guess people who learn about the game from him will never have that pleasure
Ironic... given that Gunslinger was made for people who liked DMC1 and was supposed to be the one style that "lets Dante be Dante". People who shit on Gunslinger do so only because it has one move less per weapon unlike swordmaster and even that's a fake criticism since it's the one style meant for people who want a tighter moveset so it fits.
People who think DMC is only "sword combos" are wrong on so many levels that I feel like they played a different game. Every DMC game has at least a couple of enemies that require guns to take down and guns themselves play prominently in combo making even if you're in Swordmaster.
Not even that - Twosome time alone gives so much insane cancelling ability it's almost as good at it as Royal Guard and on a purely practical side - it's the style that gives you the most burst DPS and on a new game gives you the most tools since E&I gets immediate access to wild stomp along with Rainstorm, Twosome time and Charged Shot.
DMC fan base trying to not glaze the DMC games: (Impossible)
Hardest combo any dmc fanboy ever had to master
Here's another impossible one: trying not be an insufferable elitist
Its one of my favorite franchises of all time. I'm not gonna put down other games to make it look better; but I'm still gonna suck the dick clean of this series and feel no remorse about it.
D: Dismal
Quick reminder that it's fine to glaze over a franchise you like. As long as you're not bringing down other games while you're at it for horrible reasons. Video above.
@@SnuggleBear_80s it's good to glaze DMC, just don't do it at the expense of other action games
I was coming into this as a angry DMC fan thinking this was some hate rant, but turns out bro spit nothing but facts
The biggest difficulty for me as a lover of hack n slash games was reconciling the fact that dmc, one of my favourite action game series of all time, has some of the most insufferable and obnoxious fanboys that hate on other favourite action series such as gow (a rivalry as old as time). I am definitely not going to generalize the entire fanbase as such since i have met some beautiful souls in their community among the way. But MY GOD are they the most annoying in the overall community that just think that a world where all action games can be appreciated without having to rub dmc on every other game's nose is not possible. I can't even count the number of cancerous and hateful comments I've seen from them, especially towards gow (grow up ya silly twats it's not a bloodfeud). Even tho i can easily admit how dmc paved the way to most of the amazing action games, I'd rather live in a world where i can appreciate the variety for what it is rather than disregarding them all as dmc clones. It's kinda like the "Simpsons did it" thing but more obnoxious. The elitism is definitely there and it always bothered me that a lot of people didn't talk about it because it was such a discussion and vibe killer in my experience. So let me thank you zesty for talking about this (nice tie btw) cos it takes some courage to say such things out given how easily susceptible to conflict such statements can be. Definitely watch out for the angry ones below your comments for this video, if you know what i mean.
P.S. : Thanks for calling out gamingbritshow with the agenda stuff, really despise that mf for enabling some of the toxicity we see in hack n slash nowadays (and fuck him especially for being a top ranking gow hater)
He didn't hate on GOW, he actually liked gow ascension for has some really depois gameplay, he made one descent critique on gow 2018 that definitivamente has some problens compared tô classic gow and when he made a Straith comparison it was with Godhand not DMC
@@petwisk2012 "decent critique" is a pretty soft word for what he actually said. Infact my problem with it wasn't his actual critique about the game (which i agreed with) but the constant rubbing of dmc and saying gow will never reach height of the genre (which is ok). And don't even get me started on the cancerous comments section underneath it.
This is the biggest slap in the face for me. It's almost as if people don't want more games and more variety in this already niche genre. Action game enjoyers should band together against the sea of open worlds and walking sims. But no... People still hate on other series and each fandom thinks the other is a braindead button masher (I saw a meme that showcased it perfectly, it was Bayo/DMC/GOW/MGR/NG all with thought bubbles above em saying that).
It's crazy how much they hate on each other. And the hate on Souls is also crazy. I enjoy all of these series and it's really annoying to me how toxic they're to anything that isn't their fav
@@Walamonga1313 i agree with you
But i think all action gamers banding against open world and other games is hypocritical when our intention is to create a healthy environment where all good things can be appreciated. Although I'm assuming you're talking against the saturation of these types of games and not in general.
@@laffycade3151 I didn't mean to band together as in to destroy the open worlds or walking sims lol. I just meant it as in, need to support more action games so that in turn more action games release. I still like a couple open world games like New Vegas or Elden Ring so wouldn't want those to be extinguished. My comment is more on how the open world game obsession from the past decade has had less variety lately
I totally agree with most things in this video. I dont really enjoy or like other action games outside devil may cry, but that's simply because dmc exactly appeals to what i want in an action game ( outside of dmc5 i don't like it at all and that's mostly because of the points you mention about it in this video) when playing other action games they just dont scratch the same itch and its mostly because i don't enjoy the control schemes. But i always make the distinction that i just dont like the game, NOT that the game is bad. like i fucking HATE ninja Gaiden but that does not make the game bad, it just is trying to do something that i simply don't care to play. this seems to be the crux of the issue, people critiquing things for being or not being things that they want them to be, instead of assessing them based on the games own merits and goals. Is ninja gaiden bad because it doesnt have lock on? no but i would enjoy it more if it did, so that just means i dont like it as much as i could, is that the games fault? also no, it just is, and is something that if i put enough effort into could probably learn to appreciate about it. This is a greater problem with media criticism at large imo
Totally fair to have comfort in one side and leave the other at peace, rathen than shaming it like the fans I talk about in the video.
And if someone's not like that? Cool. The video's not targeting you.
I am however surprised NG doesn't appeal to you. You're a professional speedrunner and NG would fit that. But you know better. Just thought the highly responsive controls and level design would fit your taste.
Your last part of the message is also very important. This is a thing with fandoms of a lot of things. In my experience, I saw DMC fanatics (the BAD ones) to be the worst. It happens with other fandoms, too.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 for me ninja gaiden doesn't scratch that itch because of how low level of control you have over the specifics of your actions and the enemies, you cant ever have complete control over a situation and so it feels a bit frustrating, I'm sure that over time you can build up more control the better you get at the game, but as evidenced by the insanely luck based speedrun you can never have total control. And while thats also true for dmc its not to such an extent. Also i just hate dial combos they feel so restrictive disallowing me from using parts of my toolkit unless i insert a big long string instead of some kind of command input, like a stinger input for example, just feels needlessly restrictive. but thats just my preference. doesnt make the game wrong
Devil May Cry is way more fun if you play for score and efficiency rather then flashy combos and I’m tired of pretending otherwise
Agreed. When they make a new DMC, they should consider putting in more challenge approach with different combinations of enemies that are hard to deal with and more sss ranking scores, like dmc 3 did, rather than throwing a bunch of ragdoll musou mobs that attack once in a year and all you have to do is cycle through weapons ad-nauseam.
@@evgenyomegin of maybe you should switch to a higher difficulty and get exactly what youi wanted?
And a kindly reminder, combos ARE fun. You CAN DO THEM. It's just that they don't dictate whether a game is bad or a masterpiece by their existence or nonexistence.
@@Bruno-fw6nwI can, but the original difficulty bar got so low over the years that it started to affect the higher difficulties as well. Dmc 5 DMD is the easiest DMD after DMC 2 DMD. I really miss memes like "easy mode is now selectable", and dmc3 soundtrack constantly dissing you for doing poor, they should bring it back. Normal difficulties should have normal challenge too, but the game itself shouldn't be casual-oriented.
@@Bruno-fw6nwyep, DMC LDK?, also on PC, a mod that change every enemy composition
These people are so spoiled by hindered character that for them it is the challenege to come over
i think one of the major issues with the fans is that they claim the games are "combo stylish" yet they can't do any stylish combos. Theyre basing the quality off godly combo demons like Donguri990, instead of actually playing the game
I be real i get your point here but i think you are a bit biased and maybe too deep in the sauce in comparison to the normal viewer. I dont have that problem with dmc i have that with souls like games. Of course you have a few games trying to incoperate more DMC elements to their combat but if its done its mostly positive in my oppinion. I cant say the same about the souls formular. And there are so god damn many and everything gets called that too. God of war is a souls like, wu long is a souls like, your mom is a souls like. I cant stand it anymore and i love fromsoft games. Sorry for the rambling. You are right and i agree with most things said but i think that type of thinking only goes for the hardcore fans. Im a fan since it released and don't see it that deep. Played the game's the 1st time on a ps2 at my friends house like 15 years. Bloody palace on DMC3 ripped us apart everyday 😂
@@Tmo_201 Agreed. I despise how soulslikes have become oversaturated, but the fanboys don't want to admit it, or admit the fact that soulslikes aren't for everybody and how literally every modern action RPG copying that formula is a bad thing for those people that don't like them very much, including myself.
Ye, if we're being real combo videos and some annoying redditors aren't what killed the action game, it's Dark Souls and Sekiro selling a trilion copies and causing people to retroactively label every action game before it a "mindless button masher" which caused even some of the best action games devs to move toward this trend including Team Ninja who will probably add in a stagger gauge and stamina bar if they ever do make a Ninja Gaiden 4
@@BuryTheLight-tds I mean, DS or any fromsoft game isn't hard one. The actual hard games are the ones you'll never hear of on public :D
No, no. Don't apologize for rambling. You make a good point
@@stormysoup1083 I mean that's just the trend of video games and consumer demand. CAGs were also extremely oversaturated in their prime with the GOW clones, people just don't want to play those games anymore. Arcade design games were replaced by cinematic block-buster like titles or as you said soulslikes, because that's what people like now (and to an extent has a wider demographic). Also, Team Ninja did that to themselves with NG3 lmfao, half the fanbase wouldn't have been interested with a sequel because of their design philosophies and the Itagaki drama. And I'm saying that as a NG fan
I've always felt that every combat system in every game has it's own dance so to speak
Learning to Tango in DMC is going to be different in DMC, in GOW, in Sifu, in soulslikes etc.
Every combat system is going to be it's own thing, and I'd rather everything be it's own thing rather than be DMC
Btw, your ending speech about gimmicky enemies and boss fights actually reminded me about the same situation within Souls community. It's the deal with Demon's Souls. I love bosses in this game, because of how creative they did them, because it's not as much about difficult dodge timings and one-shot attacks with them, it's this gimmicky puzzle-like and unique design. Yeah, not all of them were made great, but they're all interesting and have some unique idea behind them. But that design makes them not that hard, they can be hard only for your first playthrough. And that's exactly why Souls community says that DeS have horrible bosses. Just because they're easy. Because they don't have two or three phases, 15 seconds long combo attacks, AoE one-shots or the speed of the devil in their movement. All the design that was actually put into them they just ignore, because once you know how to beat them, they become easy. I mean, of course they will become easy, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT, the fun is in finding a way to make them easy, not in learning the dodge patterns, that's just the different kind of fun. If you watched a playthrough before playing the game for yourself or read some hints to bosses weaknesses and didn't had fun with them because of it - it's not the game's fault. The game's bosses were NOT designed in a way Elden Ring's bosses did, so you can't expect from them the same. I can definitely see where your points in your speech come from, because i feel the same way.
"Game design" is a foreign concept nowadays :)
I think the main premise here is that dmc surely inspired and pushed the hack n slash genre to create highly expressive and character focused games. Its main goal was to translate the personality of the character into their gameplay.Kratos, Bayonetta, Raiden, Hayabusa all have unique combat styles that are reflective of their personalities. Each of the franchises that they belong to have taken notes from dmc. As with any franchise, we’ve seen that all hack n slash games (for the sake of switching things up) make their games more and more complex with each sequel at the end that’s what a sequel should be. Gow for example only gave you 2 weapons, gow 2 gave you three and gow 3 gave you 4 weapons to switch from. You see this type of evolution with all hack n slash games as they come out with more sequels they tend to push the mechanics even further and give the player even more options. The reason some players may prefer gow 2 over 3 or dmc 3 over 5 is because having more mechanics may not be the main focus of a player however I cannot bash or blame the developers for trying to add new mechanics and toys to play with as they’re only trying to improve upon the older games. What veterans have a problem with is not exactly how many mechanics a sequel adds but the general focus of these mechanics and how much they shift the overall gameplay idea of the franchise from what it originally was and I think that’s a solid point. DMC is an awesome franchise, personally I have only played the first one but from what I’ve seen the developers are very talented and haven’t massively disappointed fans with their DMC sequels, I think in this case it is not the devs that are the problem but rather some of their fans.
The video above gets misunderstood as this "DMC hate" video for some reason, when it's said countless times that the problem is not the games themselves (as shown in an extra trolling way with the latest video/song). The fact of the matter is, DMC does have a lot of depth, but people only talk about that. Character depth, which is a FACTOR to millions of other things working to make a fantastic combat system. DMC5's complexity for Dante does not get justified when the enemies are not up for it. The enemies are just not ready for that type of smoke. The enemy design, resource management, efficiency tools are all just as important as character depth. Yet they're never talked about. I make a video about that, and they tell me "Who's saying that?"
Who's saying WHAT? Video has a lot of arguments. Some arguments have a HUGE crowd, some not so much (but still exist).
@@ExtremeGameplays1 I get you brother, unfortunately there’s also a type of “fan” that likes their game a little too much and as a result refuses to admit any type of criticism for their game and will throw a tantrum anytime someone doesn’t like their game or prefers another to it.
The "more weapons with every sequel" isn't exclusive to action games.
"MOAR" is the most gliche way to make better sequels, and for video games, that adds instant complexity, without talking about how well they interact with each other or with the enemies.
Anime Arena fighters would go with MOAR characters.
Action games will go with MOAR weapons.
Dark souls 2 went with MOAR weapons, MOAR enemies, MOAR bosses, MOAR items.
It feeds the simple mindset of "more=better" most folks have.
@@maiqtheliar3502 It's not even like I'm criticizing his or her favorite game. That's the weird part.
@@DanteTMed2 This.
As someone whos played video games since I was a kid and love action games/hack n slash... I have never heard a single person make any of these arguments in my entire life. Not even among the more toxic DMC fans. It sounds like you're arguing agaisnt a minority. The most I can give you is "it's the gold standard and created the genre"
which... It kinda did. You didn't even argue against it aside from showing Onimusha. they mean the concept of juggling which was seen in other character action games. Onimusha had this as a glitch. In DMC, it was an intended feature that became an essential part of the combat. Havent heard anyone say a game was a copy of dmc either but acknowledging a game is inspired by it or borrows elements like the style system.
Bayonetta DOES allow you to use multiple weapons unlike what you eaid during your minirant when comparing DMC to Bayo and you switched loadouts in the clip you showed. And frankly have never heard anyone who was a DMC fan bash the game for not being like DMC. They either love the game/character or have no strong opinion but not view Bayonetta as a trash game cause its not like its counterpart
Not doubting these people exist but im just saying youre arguing and ranting against a very small minority you may have run into a few times. I HAVE seen people complain about the older enemies though. And new enemies. To be fair though some are annoying like the Blitz from 4 and some fans dont know you can just ignore specific enemies in 3 and rarely HAVE to fight them
Also on Ninja Gaiden guys name pronunciation, its "re-yu". Since you mentioned uou didnt know how to say his name
Idk man, I don't think these obnoxious sort are a minority anymore. Everywhere i go i see the stupid comparisons and the rigid standard setting for every action game to be like dmc. In my experience, I've seen them a lot in non action gaming related discussions too, which baffles me. The insufferable elitists don't seem like a minority these days.
@@laffycade3151 In the wake of Elden Ring i'm seeing a lot more of this sort of thing on a widespread scale from Fromsoft bots instead of Devil May Cry, Devil May Cry elitism is usually held within it's own fandom as the fans bicker among themselves as to which is best.
@@bubbajoe117 true, in the wake of elden ring to be precise, so the dmc one is sort of overshadowed by it. But prior to that it was definitely vocal. Zesty wouldn't have made this video if it really was from a negligible pocket in the internet spreading such toxicity but it isn't unfortunately.
as a devil may cry fan i also love the other action games like ninja gaiden and understand that not all of them will be like devil may cry such as ninja gaiden and metal gear rising
as a new dmc fan. i played dmc 1 and 3 and the games are hella fun without mods or anything especially dmc 3 who has multiple possibilities for each build and the game has a lot of replay ability
Oh for the love of...
DMC can be enjoyed in so many ways. You can play it for high score, you can play it for the zany shounen anime plot, you can play it as a study on player moveset / enemy design (both what to do and what NOT to do), you can do challenge runs, you can do combos, freestyles, try to make sense of the plot and/or lore.
And I am saying this as someone who went into combo / styleplay way of enjoying the games after years of playing them "efficiently"...
But whether it's DMC, NG, Bayo or GoW - leave it to a narrowminded fanbase to ruin it for everyone else.
This is what I'm saying as well. This video is not saying "You are NOT to stylishly combo". You can achieve that but for a new player? How about some learning and efficiency approaches first and leaving the styling cambaws for later? When you're eventually a master of the game.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 And to think that the old True Style Tournaments were started exactly because people were getting tired of the overexposure of combos over the core gameplay...
I fell like your points applys to gaming in general
Heck nowdays it's not about dmc like but sekiro/soulslike games
Even action stylish games needs to be somewhat soulsy now
@@nerdodragonnerdpl4167 And honestly I really hate that. I wish the combat systems of action games nowadays weren't as copy-pastey compared to what we got more than a decade ago. They should really try and do their own thing instead of trend chasing.
@@BuryTheLight-tds Exacly!
It's crayzy how games could be different back in the days
It's all gernalists fault that tryed to make video games better movies/interactive movies
Not even hard boiled or Matchet style ones
Action games peaked in the ps2 era and have gone down hill, so many creative action games came out that time and it’s sad most follow a souls like formula
@@DerpyTC True indeed
They not even making own path
Just put souls there and you know it will sell
Everytime a game has a stamina meter that depletes when you attack or dodge, i inmediatly turn it down. I can't stand it.
32:04
Bro I'd love to hear about those cuz I certainly have been having a really hard time finding any in this sea of Soulslikes.
Ikr. What dmc clones is he talking about?
I've seen like 2 or 3 after DMC 5.
Fr my problem with most games is that they tend to be less deep than a SINGLE weapon in Dmc 5, there’s barely any game trying to copy what dmc 5 did because it’s extremely hard so all they do is the souls game combat formula with like one more button that does a special attack lol
Ayeee. Huge dub. "The Void" made an appearance here. The legendary place where humanity self-expresses itself like nowhere else 😮
Somewhat expected to see some talk about how the "combos" don't even have the basic Fighter mechanics that a lot of DMC fans pretend they do.
Other than that, neat video.
They're there. Your inferior mindset just can't see it.
Finished the video.
While I get where youre coming from with some points, this whole video is a weird generalization and strawmanning based on a few interactions you or your community has had with people like that.
Mentioning the "average style player" and saying that "they want Ninja Gaiden to be DMC" is wrong, as people who dabble into Stylish Action/Cuhrayzee/Character Action games in general do be interested in other projects and want more of them to be different one from another, even oldheads from the community (who, for some reason, you say both did exist and started to be a thing only during the DMC 5 days), are playing a variety of games and trying to master them.
Also, can we stop implying DMC5 is a bad game because its easier than older games? Its still a great game, just kinda easier.
I do always think about how fans of certain franchises can't last for two seconds without comparing everything they ever play to it. Soulsborne, DMC, etc. fans all get super frustrating to talk with in those respects because they tend not to branch out of their specific franchises much and often criticize games with completely different goals and systems for not being like their idealized version of their own favorite game. I think some of it comes from either playing one game (or game series) too much, getting the impression that they're good at it (and by extension good at video games), and then losing their abilities to adapt to new systems (this is a nice way of saying "getting skill issue'd" by another game) and/or their sense to appreciate different strengths in a game.
@@arachno4246 yep
I think you underrate the combo potential of vanilla DMC3 with Swordmaster and on DMD you can still combo but actually way more because of how the launcher/Knockback works on DMD enemies. But, as a DMC fan, i love Ninja Gaiden's combat (Especially NG2) and MGRR, and i don't need them to be like DMC juggle simulator. Actually you can combo way more then you think in those 2 games like using Shuriken Cancels and Blade mode cancels ect.
@@DemonKnight94 The subject is not "Hey! You can combo in other games and the comboing rivals DMC!"
It's never that. I know DMC3 has combo potential. I've seen it. Hell, I think I've DONE a DMC3 Combo Mad video before.
It's just that it's never as cuhrayzee as some people make it out to be.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 Yes it is. Combo isn't only about how it looks. Combo is a way to express your understanding of the game, and your execution skill, and your unique quality. One of the most important aspect of combo is difficulty (that's where DMC5 fumbles).
One of the thing I hate about DMC5 (which is also it's biggest flaw) is difficulty. The dev were too afraid to make the game too hard, and they're right, because DMC5 is easily the best game for average player who never touch even DMC5's DMD.
Letting go of wanting to juggle everything allowed me to like the games even more and find more interactions by playing my own way and look up others' findings. I'm also glad that someone else has similar opinions about the fandom's mindset about the series.
Admittedly I am the biggest DMC3 glazer, but imo they calculatedly crafted the most rewarding, replayable, challenging action game. Games don't have to be DMC3 to be perfect they just achieved perfection with DMC3
Excatly
Complexity and challenge are not what dictates if the gams is good or not DMC& Souls games fanbases need to understand this
Preach.
@@MrMan-e1k preach
DMC 1 : best atmosphere
DMC 3 : best story
DMC 4 : best gameplay
DMC 5 : best soundtracks
DMC 2 : best game
@@DanteTMed2 Ayo 😂
😂@@DanteTMed2
@@إلياسواكريم-ت9ز
Hahahahah, DMC4 has the best gameplay?
The hell?
I would switch between 5 & 4, but you put 3 as wells, which has the best of both worlds.
Action game fan in general here- DMC is my favorite, but I enjoy all of the series you mention (i.e. Bayo, PS2-3 GoW, MGR, NG, HFR, etc) all for what they do uniquely (especially NG), I just like DMC the most cause I like what DMC does uniquely the most. I agree with most of your video, and the points I disagree with seem to be addressed in the comments already by BeeG, but I do feel you very much undersell DMC5's enemy design. DMC5 is my favorite in the series, and the enemies I feel aren't mere punching bags. Many- Judecca, Fury, Behemoth, Proto Angelo, Empusa Queens, etc. aren't mere "punching bags" and have anti-air mechanisms of their own, and the only enemies I feel that are "punching bags" are Cainas and Riots, Green and Red Empusas, both bats, and Scudo Angelo. I think you should apply your own descriptions of DMC1-4 to DMC5 as well, in other words- Yes, it can be a the "combo sim" many DMC fans claim to love about it, but it's far more than that and beats out DMC3 and DMC1 for my favorite in the series, albeit it's a close race between the three. The problem is the heavy social media focus on The Void and Vergil memes and not on the actual missions or Bloody Palace and how people ignore the existence of V and Nero. Dante's grounded options are better than they've ever been, but social media doesn't care for it.
I just want to add- the subset of DMC fans you mention also hurt DMC as well, in regards to characters that aren't Dante and Vergil. A lot of the fanbase doesn't understand any game mechanic other than complexity, I feel. So, when very intentional decisions are made about Nero, per say, in his limitations, people see this as a problem rather than as a decision. Itsuno spoke heavily about his intentional decision to make Devil Breakers non-switchable, for instance. Many DMC fans feel the need to "correct" this via breaker-switching mods, and I feel this mentality will essentially make you never like Nero. There's so many tools you have to work with for Nero, from Exceed, to his unique charge shot mechanics, to his Busters, to the various Devil Breakers, to Table Hopper, and so on, yet because all this does not amount to the depth Dante and Vergil have (on the surface), people disregard his entire character. These false expectations of DMC being "stylish" in a weird sense you speak of throughout the entire video hurt people's opinions and enjoyment of Nero, let alone Lady, Trish, and V.
I've seen many Twitter/Reddit takes that Nero is a flawed character because he only has one weapon, or because he only has one "style" (despite styles being a clear Dante-only mechanic), or whatever it be. I am not a fan of that mentality. The same goes for V to a greater extent. V breaks all the norms and expectations one has going into DMC5, and people disregard his entire character and playstyle because of it. It's frustrating to see V, the most that DMC5 did to innovate in the genre, be utterly disregarded the way he is when you can feel his influence in say, Bayonetta 3, and yet it's an incredibly popular take that V is the worst part of DMC5. I'm not saying V is a perfect character, but people hate on his gameplay seemingly exclusively for not being Dante.
DMC5 narratively meant to retire Dante and Vergil as characters, and that's imho what the series needs. Maybe a Nero-focused DMC6 and paired with a comeback from Ninja Gaiden and a Bayonetta 4 can give us the resurgence of action games we need with a healthier community.
This honestly sounds like you're complaining about a small sub-section of annoying fans that I rarely have ever come across.
I have never heard anyone with a functioning brain say "Gow 3 is a bad action because it's not like DMC"
God of war's combat doesn't focus on style. It's focus brutality. Sure I prefer dmc 5 and 3 but I never ever thought that Gow2 or 3 are lesser now that I have dmc 5. The 2 combat systems are like apples and grapes to me.
Sure they're both fruit and both taste good and I prefer grapes but apples are good too!
And sure Bayo is a stylish action game that while good I still prefer dmc 5. But Bayo has her own style of play that isn't in DMC 5. She has her own style that is just as fun to play as dante or nero or kratos. Bayonetta isn't lesser because I prefer dmc 5.
Also dmc 4's enemies suck. (To me at least) And it's not because "I can't style or combo them" they suck because they aren't fun to fight.
Same with DMC 3's more annoying and/or gimmicky enemies.
I also don't like the style system in dmc3 because while I understand the game is designed around it and was how the game was made to be played, going back to statues to swap your load out wastes time and hurts your rank, which just makes me not wanna bother swapping at all. Sure I can replay the mission to get the collectables or practice with it later, but I would rather do it now.
DMC 3 is better with style swapping because it's convenient. It's also more fun for newcomers to the game since it might make finding your preferred style easier.
Obviously the game should still have the option to be played as originally intended (which it does) and I might do it as a different experience from time to time, but having style swapping if only for convenience sake is SO MUCH BETTER! It honestly made dmc3 so much more fun for me. I always thought it was great but playing it with free style made me love Dante's kit in DMC 3 even more.
I do still prefer 5 for various reasons but 3 (especially with free style) is awesome too. But even without free style DMC 3 still has the best story, awesome bosses, 2 fun characters and fun weapons to use.
DMC 3 and 5 are great.
So is God of war and Bayonetta. They are great for different reasons.
I remember seeing first DMC3 "combomad" video having like 80% of jc+swordmaster aerial attack, helm breaker, high time and repeat and I thought well yeah it's cool spaming same attack 10 times and all, but why would you skip all those beutiful animations that developers spend time making? That's why I like freestyle more than that type of "combos".
Lock on + directional Input is just what I become accostomed to, so it's personal preference. I don't like when there is lock on that doesn't actually makes anything. Like you're lock on to one enemy and character uses move towards different enemy.
I can be gaslighting DMC sometimes for it being powefantasy where you "dictate" pace of combat most of the time and not other way around, because some of new "action" games, that say they are action games that are inspired by DMC, but in fact it's like 60-80% soulsbournesekiro gameplay.
Have nothing against GoW(execpt maybe a bit too much QTE for my liking, again personal preference. Still enjoyed playing classic series), NG, MGR, Byaonneta or Nier. Heck I love Darksiders I and II(III too, but not for combat xD) and Legacy of Kain: Defiance.
I love comboing too. It's fun. It's just that it doesn't dictate a combat design's greatness to the level implied by a lot of fans.
What you've watched is a DMD combo where juggling enemies becomes infinitely harder due to the stun and launch system of Devil Triggered enemies. DMD combos - as repetitive and boring they MIGHT look are the closest thing to being forced to be practical and efficient in your use of attacks in terms of comboing since it boils down to managing the enemy's stun and displacement meters.
i have to say sometimes less is more, even if we say DMC is the deepest action game of all time, still it doesnt objectively make it better, for me an "easy to learn, hard to master" type of game is much more enjoyable. i have played a few DMC games and did not enjoy them that much, and thats because i cant adapt to a game fast enough to start enjoying it sooner, but for God of War i never had that problem because its in a way even though i play it badly i still feel like a pro just because of how satisfying the game looks even when i a just doing "square square triangle", but on each playthrough i learn a little bit more and slowly i will go from "mindless button mashing" to "using different combos with different weapons as different tools for different situations", i am still no professional in God of War but the fact that each playthrough is slightly smarter than my previous playthrough satisfies me.
what i want to say is that there are different types of games for different types of gamers. video games are subjective. you can say a game implements a few elements objectively better than another game, but as a package you cant say this game is objectively better than that game. its up to the developers to have as many mechanics as they want or how deep should those mechanics be, all that matters is that they should use those elements to make overall a fun game.
some people have the talent to breeze through DMC games on "Dante must die" difficulty and they enjoy it, and some people like to play God of War games on easiest difficulty settings to have a chill and laid back experience, some people like the challenges of a dark souls game and some people like to play a 2d beat-em-up and finish the game without learning any mechanics
i want to see the days that people would just accept that they cant understand every single game but they would totally respect other people for having different opinions.
by the way nice video 👍 someone needed to say not everything is objective
Well, if there's one thing i learned from this video, it's why some people hate DMC 5. Not like i was interested in why they hate, but now i get it. It is easier than the previous games and it's easier to do combos there, that's true, that's what i noticed as well when I started to play through harder difficulties while being a fan of the series for many years. Is it bad though, like, do you really hate that it's just easier for the newcomers. It's not like you can't make the game harder for yourself choosing the difficulty and your play style. Like Zesty did with turning off the jump cancel. That's an interesting decision, and it's allowed him to have more fun with that game. What's wrong with the game just being easier for the people who never played these games, or who considered them hard to play, because honestly - they were hard to play stylishly. DMC 5 allows people to make their combat flashy and cool without spending their entire life into understanding the game, so i fail to see the problem here. Again, you can always make the game as hard as you want it to be, just play more risky, play more with unsafe moves, don't use overpowered ones too often or don't cheese the enemies - it's really that simple. Play on Hell and Hell ffs. I had a lot of fun with this mode, especially because my play style wasn't the best for it, it's too risky, so i even needed to change it a bit in order to even complete it lol. So yeah, it's easier, but it doesn't make the game less fun or straight up bad. Just find your own way with the game, experiment more. Or don't, because if you really think it's bad, you probably didn't liked some other stuff of the game, like art style or smth, and you don't have any desire to experiment with it. It's fine, there's plenty other games to dive into, just play them, why hate something and tell everyone that it's bad when it's actually not.
DMC5 is an easy game, the fun of it comes from combos/juggles/styling, the way enemies/bosses/characters are designed complement that.
You cannot hate on DMC5 for its difficulty, because it's CLEARLY not trying to be difficult, even with JC off or even with no upgrades, it's still easy/decently challenge.
If you want a challenging DMC you boot up DMC1-4 DMD.
if you want to style and combo, you boot up DMC5 DMD.
If you want a balanced mix of both, you boot up DmC Devil may cry.
Each game has its philosophy and you play it for what it is, and not complain for what it is not trying to be.
"DMC5 enemies are braindead" isn't a jab at the game's experience, but a jab at "X enemies Vs Y enemies" conversations, when you compare elements from games, DMC5 enemies will always be the worse one, on the other hand, DMC5 dante will always be the best one when it comes to the sheer ammount of possibilities/creativity, freedom and combos potential.
Each thing for what it is, Simple as that.
Yo CoolSaver. Was waiting for you to comment.
The thing with DMC5 is that, notice the lengths I've gone to make it remotely as interactive as other action games. I may not show it, but it PAINS me that I've turned off what pretty much has been a staple of the franchise. It's a lot of things that work together to make DMC5 so unrealistically easy as Dante. The lack of gravity, the lack of air interrupting or escapes, the easy as hell JC, the easily launchable enemies...
Turning off JC made it a lot more fun and challenging rather than camping in the air, but it's still a flaw that I had to do THAT to gain some interactive plays in the game. I love the game very much. I occasionally play BP or random missions. But man it's so easy. There's a concept of easy and low floor, but high ceiling. Easy to learn, hard to master.
DMC5 goes easy on both. Why? 3 playable characters. No time to make the enemies deep and as gimmicky as before. Make them accommodate for all 3 and what you get is DMC5.
DMD is the staple difficulty of these games. Hardest difficulties are generally where action games shine through. And I like this game's DMD. With turned off JCs.
@@DanteTMed exactly! Well pointed out and summarized, bro.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 you what now? Haha, sorry, if I knew you remembered me I would've watched your vid sooner 😅 I know you put a lot of work into it, I read your post about it, just thought this theme wouldn't bring anything new to me, which is true for the most part, but I still enjoyed it. I already knew exactly what kind of DMC fans you're going to talk about, I've met them as well while trying to prove my point that new GoW games are goddamn stylish as well 😂
And back to DMC 5 again and your problem with it, well, I think you just became too good of an action games player. Even though it felt easy for me, it never felt frustratingly (if that's a word) easy. Again, probably because I just auto-ballanced my playthroughs with my play style. For example, I knew that you can easily pick enemies one-by-one in the air and deal with them there no probs, but... I only did it for H&H difficulty 😅 I focused more on the ground combat instead, getting in the air for short periods of time, trying not to abuse the game's weaknesses too much and keep it challenging. And that was fun for me to do, but I get it that if you're too good at the game you just need to take more and more options from yourself to keep it challenging, so I guess you've just mastered the game and that's what happened, because enemies' and bosses' low depth allowed you to do this pretty quickly. So I guess that's the main problem of the game.
Fun fact, I am actually NOT good at DMC 4 at all, even though I played it a lot, and this game was so frustrating to me because of it 😅 I felt good on the highest difficulties in DMC 1, 3 and 5 (2 doesn't exist), but not 4. And you know what? After I get the hang of Nero's mechanics, Dante's style switcher and JC overall in 5 (because I wasn't really using JC in 3 much, again preferring ground combat instead), I returned to 4 and OH MY GOD I finally started to love this game 😂 Somehow 4 is the most brutal in the franchise for me, even though I still think that 1 and 3 are harder, and I actually needed to play more easier version of it first to be able to enjoy 4. I want to believe there's more players who started with an easier 5 and then progressively dived deep into the harder ones. So 5 has its benefits, as well as the flaws, and that's fine.
zesty is actually cooking lately ngl
Ye
Ye
IM FRIIIIEEEEEEEEDDD
this video actually got me back to playing dmc 4 and metal gear rising regularly again
honestly people should start looking at action games like any other video games because it makes them even more fun to play
Thank you for understanding.
AUTIIIIIIIIIIIIISMMMMMMMMMMMM
I love dmc and had no clue this was a thing. Also when I go to play ninja Gaiden I don’t hope for stylish, I hope not to get my ass kick lol.
Nice video, brother. There's a lot of good points here, but I especially agree with the frustration you feel towards people complaining about DMC3 enemies and the weapon/style limitations
Mods have the potential to add a lot of great content to old games, sadly tho most modders just wanna change random things that make the game easier or in there eyes "better" And then there are stupid changes made for no reason like UI changes and stuff like that.
Sometimes a game needs a very small change to fix and issue or just make the game a lot better, but sadly most modders are more concerned with making big booba mods or other stuff like that.
Mods are amazing. It's when someone is arguing about a video game and he brings up a modded DMC3 into the discussion is where it's wrong. Both disregards the original game and generally argues about something that got altered beyond the dev's vision. It'd be like if I went and modded the Batmobile from Arkham Knight to Arkham Asylum, and then say Asylum is hella fun cuz it allows me to drive the Batmobile. When DMC4 adds style switching as a sequel, that's one thing. Using mods to bring sequel things into DMC3? Fun, but never replacing the main game. Never. For personal preferences, maybe. But objectively? That's a modded DMC3.
Funny thing is, I’ve never played DMC other than DMC 5. I have only ever played god of war, Dante’s inferno, and metal gear rising.
@@Guava11534 I hope you enjoy the rest of the games. Remember, less doesn't particularly mean worse.
You'll find more depth in the enemies of DMC1, 3, and 4 than in 5.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 I agree. I’m just a fan of the action genre in general so I’m always down to try some of the older DMC games.
Dmc4 is execution is just so high i can't not view dmc5 as a baby game compared to it
DMC5 in general is easy as hell. Save for some instances.
One thing I will say that is spot on on this video is that a lot of DMC fans who absolutely have a chip on their shoulder of how successful God of War was and how it over shadowed DMC3 the month it came out and became the thing to copy despite DMC2 being a pile of sludge thus damaging the IP
This video could've been 10 minutes long. Half of these arguments your addressing are reddit nitpicks.
As DMC4 enjoyer, this video is based
The underrated kino
8:02 I didn't consent to see this picture.
Hahaha
And I'm sorry 😂
juggling enemies mid air for minutes look cool and fun for a short time. after a while its kinda tedious, given how spongy the enemies are.. youre forced to do ridiculous combos. i prefer nioh 2, stranger of paradise, ninja gaiden
Ninja Gaiden Black is amazing but the sequels got worse and worse tbh
Bayonetta and unironically Kingdom hearts fans are fine but DMC and Ninja Gaiden fans? They are practically two sides of the same coin my god and I thought Ultrakill fans were bad.
Preach
Based. I wouldn't really consider KH an action game series, but it is darn good. I will say that there's definitely a subsection of that community that's very "if you haven't done everything level 1, your opinion is worthless," but that's kind of just normal in games like that.
All of the series mentioned are fantastic series btw. Kingdom Hearts has some of my favorite boss design ever.
Shinobi fans: ☠️
@@jeisonpineda2404 Shinobi's not a beat-em-up lol it's a 16-bit platformer
@@arachno4246 Who says this, and in what context?
I came to this one with a skeptical eye tbh, but after just watching 12 minutes, I agree with you. Coming from someone who has DMC as his favorite game series and is semi-decent at it.
Watch the rest where I express my feelings towards the entire franchise. It's not the games themselves. As for the title.
If. You're. NOT. Like. The. Fans. I. Talk. About.
Then the video is NOT targeting YOU (surprise).
@@ExtremeGameplays1 Yeah I actually watched it all there and then, but didn't deem it necessary to comment again since as I've said, I do agree with you
I haven't heard people say this but I agree with the point
That's the main problem
I actually appreciate zesty for talking about this because it has been an issue for a long ass time yet people rarely complained about this despite finding it problematic. I would talk to a lot of friends on the internet about how they had to face such obnoxious fanboys yet there was no solid video or post that talked about this. Glad zesty is but also a bit worried that he'll have to face the toxicity now.
And toxicity I've faced.
"Nobody's saying that" cards being used left and right when these people rarely engage in combat arguments that go beyond and outside DMC.
Arguments in bad faith are also a helluva thing.
Reddit? Some jackass posted the thumbnail to shed bad light on it, only for the ignorants to comment "DMC RUINED ACTION GAMES? HE JEALOUS" without even READING the title right. Or watching atleast a little of it.
Funny how the big dawgs of the community in DMC almost all agree with the video's arguments. If they disagree with something, they atleast SPECIFY which point (since there are 3 main talking heads). Even combo madders like BeeG agreed. Chaser Tech, WaifuRuns. These are DMC Vets that agree. Some ignorant people twist the narrative and disagree. All in bad faith if an argument even happens.
As for the rest? It feels like they're defending their religion or some shtik. How hard is it to understand that IF YOU'RE *NOT* like the fans I talk about, then the video is *NOT* targeting you. Just move along or atleast watch and understand. If you're not down to watching a meticulously written and edited 45 minutes video that dives deep into the root of the problem then just say so rather than being toxic.
@@ExtremeGameplays1 dang I'm sorry to hear that. some people just see a title and thumbnail and don't even watch the entire video before commenting
@@ExtremeGameplays1 this is the consequence of dmc combat being held as the only gold standard in discourse; fanaticism and reluctance. It's not just the fanboys responsible for this but even the critics and journos who for ages have been comparing action games with dmc in their reviews. "Oh the combat is good but it's no dmc/there aren't many combos like dmc" This review pressure feeds into the overall discourse too.
Very good video as usual. The thumbnail is obviously clickbait, but the arguments and what you say are solid.
Solid video man.
But one critique I have, some parts of the video kinda comes across as "I've seen some people say this stuff. So that means the majority of people say/think this."
It's not really just some people saying it. Some of these complaints are made by not only reddit posts with a considerable following/up votes but even certain UA-cam videos and channels that push this narrative. Best example: gamingbritshow
Reddit is an easy example to bring up. There are oceans of these points in other forums such as GFAQs, Twitter and a buncha other forums. It IS a narrative. It's not a majority when talking broadly about the DMC fandom, but it is somewhat a majority in the action games scene that focuses on combat.
Not a majority? We can't call it a minority either.
As a Devil May Cry Fan myself and having DMC as my Nr.1 action series. i agree with you.
Well, i am not a pro at jump cancel and i totally suck at this, but i love to play the games anyway. because it makes fun.
And i don´t call myself even a pro player. lol
i personally, love the other Hack n Slash series as well. Since i can do things there, which i can not do in the DMC series. Because that is why i love these games, and why i love to replay them from time to time.
This is genuinely surprised me, that there's quite a chunk of the fandom that act this way or this braindead, since my interaction with the them so far it's never been this worst, the only reminiscent bad experience that i got from the fandom are just an idiot troll, i'm saying as DMC fan as well that have been playing this game for decades 😅
Yeah. This video doesn't target you or the wholesome people you speak of. Every fandom has its bad side. I've met some lovely people through the DMC community.
@@Dark-Wolf-066 i feel that a dmc player themselves may not encounter these sorts much, the problem arises when you're a player from another action game and try to have a discourse about it. As a gow player i have frequently met these toxic shitheads and it's so dissapointing how everytime i try to check up the dmc subreddit or other post i have to encounter this negativity. Like damn, we really can't appreciate multiple things huh? Sucks ass tbh because i love dmc as a whole but always found some of the fanbois highly irksome when talking about other games like gow or ninja gaiden.
@@laffycade3151 I guess it just a me thing, cuz i'm fully aware that i'm living under a rock since i never use reddit nor twitter cuz it's also never been a big thing in my place, which most of people consider as a toxic place for online discussion, and i still keeping my self to stay away from those platform cuz of the warning that people gave to me?... so as a result i never encounter "that" side of the fandoms cuz i only, and mainly interact to them on youtube comments till this day
The most fun things about It Is that also many entries in the DMC series are not like the idea of DMC that the average fan has. See First DMC and DMC3 (outside combo videos with style switch mode) are appreciated less then 4 and 5 (which Is legit actually for taste reasons, but not for being inferior in absolute terms)
Based Zesty humbling the uppity combotards.
I miss the early days of 3D Action (2001-2008) when new action game IPs used to be very distinct from each other. DMC, GoW, Kingdom Hearts,Ninja Gaiden, God Hand, Onimusha, Chaos Legion etc. NONE of these games played anything like each other and all had something different from rest to standout and give it its own identity.
Now its just chasing what the normies like instead of new innovation. Nothing against DMC and Souls (I like both) but its so tiresome...
That’s why I loved hi-fi rush so much it was doing its own thing, I wish more action games tried different things, like how ultra kill takes notes from action games but in an fps form, wish more games branched out instead of trying to be souls or dmc
Agree with this comment a lot. Nothing against DMC or Souls either, but damn I miss when we had so many different "flavors" to pick. Most 2000s action games played quite differently and they were all fun
@@DerpyTCI still have yet to try that one. Sad that Tango got pretty much betrayed. Hopefully those devs can get another chance as a different studio
@@UncPhilly88 "uppity combotards"
Thanks I'm taking this
I love DMC, I want there to be more varied action games out there and I don't mind the stylish meter being in more games but it is important that it isn't in *ALL* games. The way people talk about the combat in DMC now reminds me a lot of people talking about ""open world" up until mid way through the 2010s. People are now quite literally making Skyrim mods to mimic DMC's gameplay funny enough.
I haven't watched this and I already agree just from the stance of variety, there needs to be games which take a simpler approach to whatever mechanic to compliment the more in depth and involved ones. The last thing you want is complete homogenization with gameplay
Now that I have finished the video, I still agree even though funny enough I expected the point to be more about over complicating games with the same specific DMC style of action game combat that don't need it; DMC 5 is absolutely the easiest to combo in in the series and has pretty dull enemies for the most part. I won't lie that I never really used charged shots against cutlass in DMC 4 and thought they were kind of an annoying outlier in that game too even though I love DMC 1 which is most specifically about enemy weaknesses.
I think it's probably a fairly predictable result that people would overhype DMC 5's game design in comparison to others *because* it is really accessible, it is the antithesis to the gassing up of Elden Ring's "no hand-holding" which leads to a lot of people trying to brute force their way through that game the wrong way as well lol. In neither case makes a perfect game, they are very good at what they do (probably, I cba with Elden Ring).
Elden Ring's problem is the community loves challenge runs too much, they think you have to ignore game mechanics like summoning or you're just bad. DMC 5's new community's problem is they think every game needs enemies that also let you air juggle them forever.
The fact that Shadow of the Erdtree wasn't a fun time for no summon - strength builds as they died nigh ad infinitum like Asmongold jump attacking like they have no brains only relying on dodge s is not bad game design. I think Souls devs are at fault for not making it clear that ignoring a game's mechanics for the sake of "skill" is pretty stupid and these DMC 5 fans thinking the donguri990 way is the "most skillful" and "good game design" possible are also being pretty stupid with that assertion as you say (not that it's bad for these things to exist, just that people have very narrow ignorant views on them)
TL;DR - In recent years DMC 5 and Elden Ring are the action games stupid Redditors decide "If your game isn't like this, then it's bad" which is especially stupid in the case of Elden Ring with the magic and summoning haters imo.
Both cases are about game play styles completely dominating a person's idea of what "fun" is or what "skill" is to an absurd and ignorantly dismissive degree. The Be-all End-all mentality towards what is so rigidly ascribed to either word actively harms conceptions of game design and prevents players from thinking outside of the box and actually enjoying more games.
Devil may cry really only became a juggling simulator with 4.
Blitz stops the juggling sim
@@morkgin2459 honestly I don't really count the blitz, maybe with Nero, I haven't played much as Vergil, but with Dante it's easy to bully him before he game-ends himself in a single combo.
@@rolyatkcirfoksamrorreteht4068 well not every combat arena is about juggling though
@@morkgin2459 I didn't say every arena was focused on juggling, I do like some of the gimmicky area's, but the combat mechanics lean more heavily on the style meter and juggling.
@@rolyatkcirfoksamrorreteht4068 I mean DMC3 already kinda focuses on that just with limitations of not being able to style switch.
I don't think everything is need to be dmc like but IT IS the PEAK of genre .
Yup.
lol. anytime someone compliments GoW, someone posts that same Vergil clip.
that is hilarious ig
Yes
There is also that, yeah.
Metal Gear Rising is clearly Ninja Gaiden inspired. I hate it when I see people calling it either a DMC or a GOW clone
this video would be relevant 5 years ago, now it's souls slop ruining action games
Souls is a similar subject, yes. And this DMC thing is not that irrelevant.
Its so annoying, and I love the souls series
I agree with some of the points but this is all coming from being triggered by posts on the internet and “fans”. Dmc 5 was my intro to the franchise and I didn’t jump cancel for like the first 200 hours of playing (mind you I was a Vergil main to start, I now play Dante and can combo a bit)
My main point is dmc 5 revived the franchise and brought it to a new level of popularity, so being so upset at newcomers preferring the more stylish and combo focused gameplay OF JUST DANTE MIGHT I ADD just comes off as bitter og player that prefers what their first impression of dmc was
Popularity is a good thing for a dead franchise at the time, and yes I say dead because the reboot wasn’t exactly a hopeful sign for the franchise when that came out
You almost had me until you said there's a goldmine behind DMC4's combat.
Game is unbaked regardless if you go for the BS air combo gameplay or simply playing the game for the challenge.
There's a solid reason why DMC3 is the best - it's a complete game from the golden age of gaming.
Lot of bosses in dmc3 are not good.
@@morkgin2459 XD, that's a good joke
@@OZcomingFRoo I wish it was honestly
You are only thinking about the bosses Cerberus, Agni Rudra, Beowolf and Vergil
Rest are either horrible like Arkham, Jester kinda. The Horse and Nevan could be considered somewhat decent. Doppleganger is underwhelming.
Let's not mention the third boss and the sea monster boss, okay?
@@morkgin2459
No the bosses in DMC3 are all great.
Just because you can't JC them, doesn't mean they're bad
@@OZcomingFRoo even the third boss, which just flies across the room? Now that's a good joke. DMC3 has some good bosses but the others are horrible.
I had a huge realization when i played 4s BP and constantly got anti aired and clipped if i played sloppily.
Coming from years of DMC5 and seeing the genius design of the Angelos or even Frosts completely broke my DMC5 brain where enemies just leave you be. Then i played the first two GoW games for the first time this year (on hard and later very hard) and i found this beauty in playing well and efficient, not overextending and actually having a gameplan to survive and reactions (granted i spammed Cronus with rage and the hammer throughout II lol). Getting good at Tekken also made me realise that.
I learned to love the more challenging aspects of DMC after that. Its still my favorite action series but my mindset has completely changed now.
If your idea of skillful play is to lower the difficulty and juggle some enemy in the air for hours, i have bad news buddy.
@@zesork5627 DMC is far more than the false idea of combo madding. I'm simply tired of having one of my favorite franchises get so misinterpreted and wrongly advertised. There's SO much depth a lot of these "fans" either don't care about or consider "not so great" or "annoying".
all imma say is, onimusha will always be goated
ngl I expected DMC hate but you actually apprcate all the other amazing stuff DMC has other than just combos.
Ahhhhh, already using M64's bangers, HUGE😂
It fits sooo many different contexts.
As a guy who still obsessively plays DMC 5, I like other action games just as much
@@DominusGary You can even like DMC5 the most. This is not a post that says "You can't have DMC over any other game". Everyone has taste and preferences.
the switch up on DMC5 is CRAZY, but a very good video overall.
True though
It’s a flawed game. I’m glad more people are speaking about its problems instead of acting like it’s one of the “greatest masterpieces of all time”.
@Me-jf2oo yes it's flawed because everything is but it's a very good game
@@Me-jf2oo well it depends on what you'd consider a flaw in the game, I can definitely understand his criticisms of it but on the flip side it's considered the best by many for those same reasons, it's what the fandom exactly asked for.
@@Ovlam5555h Imo they went too far in simplifying the mechanics and making the game casual friendly. Enemies are braindead easy, jump cancel and exceed and royal guard are easier, the overall difficulty of the game is low, and S ranking missions (with the exception of janky ranking in a few missions) is a breeze.
I don’t hate dmc 5, in fact I love the game, but I don’t ignore the flaws it has like many others.
What do you think about Tvtropes' Stylish action page?
I mean...I combo in as many games as I can.
Bro who are you even talking about??
As someone who's been a huge dmc fan for some time now, I've almost never seen people talk this way. Yeah we think DMC is the best action, hack and slash, whatever you want to call it, game, but I've never seen anyone say "It's the only way an action game can be good", or "other action games MUST be like it". Some say the prefer dmc's style, which is fine people can have a preference, but never that it's the only way.
@@antelasic1950 You haven't seen enough. Simple as that.
Besides, the video covers two other points. Two other points that you also haven't seen enough discussed about them. You're not up in forums, Reddit, Twitter, UA-cam retrospectives of other games where the reviewer downtalks a certain game calling it "a lesser DMC".
You haven't seen what I've seen while discussing combat depth. Which is fine, since it's not the most healthy way to go about things. You've only seen the wholesome side of the community. I love that side very much.
I’m glad I’m not like them
I just shitpost
Bro married and didn't told us .
No, he is just Arabian
@@Omega-jg4oq 😅so?he can't marry ?
I just came back from work that day 😂
@@ExtremeGameplays1 ok my second guss was right that means
Hello! Sonic fan here. I agree with this video, 100%. I've seen people saying that sonic can also work as an action game and said sonic should play like devil may cry and such. To which I do not agree. Maybe some characters in sonic would work decently with combat character action gameplay. But staying in one place when beating up a foe just doesn't fit sonic. Sonic is an action adventure platformer that involves going places real fast. (And with physics and environment interaction as well.) If its gonna have combat, atleast combine combat and traversal into one thing and be able to hit foes with your moveset and avoid hits while also being able to go places at the same time. That's how I want it to work. And I don't wanna hear or see people say something like the wyvern boss in frontiers does something like that. No! All you really do is chase after that stupid thing, qtes & cinematics, and then you get stuck one place when you're beating it up, repeat until it's over. (Oh, and more qtes & cinematics.) Not what I want a sonic game to be.
and for me personalllyy dmc isnt even isnt the end all be all for action games for me. i also enjjoy kingdom hearts, yakuza, ys, andthe arkham games
Actually very nice criticism of DMC games and fanbase, I really appreciate the work. But let me give some thoughts:
"Dmc 3 has the best Dante Must Die mode"- Yes it is very good and 'almost' perfect in that category, but the enemy DT is really a little too much. Like they get immunity to most knockback and launchers that you have to calculate to get them up or down, on top of getting 3x Health. Sure it makes the Hell Sins and variants fun to fight, but the gimmicky enemies (Spiders, Fallen, Soul Eaters plus Enigmas) turn into cancer bombs. Plus in BP floor 9000 up (90 up if we go by 100 floor route), every, fucking enemy, spawns with DT active, whatever maniac designed this floor really seemed to love slog fights.
"Dmc 4 has the most complex and best enemy encounters"- Okay I won't say that the enemies aren't designed around Dante or Nero or whatever, but something I noticed especially after playing all 5 characters in Special Editionk is that there is at least one enemy that each character will struggle with and has little counter abilities. Ex. Blitz is 100% designed for Dante because of the necessary firearm techniques and existence of Pandora weapon, even Lady and Nero can tackle him. But Vergil on the other hand does not have a good firearm, and the only way to remove the cloak is to spam with storm swords 10x or 2 full JCE attacks. Ex 2. It is really difficult to fight the dogs and or Frost with Trish as her abilities don't have much widthspan or damage control, also Frosts in this game just tanks Dante's attacks 90% of the time. Ex 3. Lady sucks at fighting Angelo Knights also you only use charged rockets, she doesn't have other ways to break their shields and can't mid-air counter them.
"Dmc5 enemies are braindead and nothing stops your JC techniques"- Absolutely fucking correct on this, several people have pointed this out before but no one has taken them seriously! Air comboing and getting jump canceling are fun, but to the extent of this games leisure is far too much, and when I play even going for full S ranks, I purposely only do minimal air combos and slam foes back to the ground so the other enemies attack and get within my reach. Again, there be a balance and limitations on what you can go to enemies in combat before you must interact with their attacks.
Sorry this comment is so long, thanks for reading
@@darkblasterzero4067 >Criticism of the games
Not much said about the games. I love all of them.
>DMC3 DMD
They *do* gain a lot of health as part of the design. Still tho, I mainly use the main campaign as a reference point, as it is the most well thought out and focused part of the experience, while BP is trying to be the edgy hard part that got added a year later into the game.
What you're saying is understandable, but only if we're going off a Fresh No Upgrades run. In vanilla (basically NG+ for DMC3), you have a lot of tools that wreck enemies' armors. Bringing them down is not particularly that challenging. It becomes a dance where you're constantly interacting with a moving hurtbox of an enemy. Enigmas would be dangerous and annoying near the start. Later? With the Sniper and all your ranged tools including Nevan? They are not as problematic. I accept the big health pool since I'm used to big grunts requiring you to chip them down. It happens in almost every action game.
>DMC4
>Trish
>Lady
>Vergil
All characters added later. Characters that weren't taken into consideration. I'm fine with those not handling the enemies in the best of ways. What matters to me is Dante and Nero. And these two nail down character depth and design in the best of ways possible. It is not so easy to make a game with such complex enemies and STILL make it work for multiple characters. See what DMC5 did? You know why it did the enemies so dirty? To accommodate all 3 characters. V was a big aspect on why the enemies are the way they are.
>DMC5 enemies
It pains me that I've turned off JC, but the game has gotten a bit more challenging and fun. It pains me becuz it's a staple mechanic of DMC turned way too easy for its own good. It's not just the easiness of the JC. It's the lack of gravity in the air, the launching of every enemy easily, the easy JC, AND the lack of enemy interruption that all work together to make the experience lack the challenge that it's supposed to have.
Yo zesty just got mgr on pc what difficulty do you recommend I start with ( my normal first play throughs are in hard)
That's pretty good that you went with it. Good luck and have fun with peak.
solid video.
the one thing i will say is that once players get a hold of a game, it is out of the devs hands to how people will interact with the systems at hand. this happens a lot in fighting game spaces, mvc2 is a prime example of this with the god characters playing a COMPLETELY different game compared to any character that is below top tier. between movement, neutral, execution, combo structure, etc.
dmc suffered from cultural osmosis of how many people played the game in a very combo cenetric way going from dmc3 onward and trickled down to how many people viewed it as such. it could be a number of reasons, possibly the amount of options, the tech found, the execution to control the game and/or how much health certain enemies had so you could do a lot of stuff to them. this comes along with that "expression" people love to talk about, most of it is just the options you are given in any situation and how you go about it. the big takeway is many, many action games, are about efficiency than the hypothetical style ethos people like to tout, tracing back to arcade roots of old beat em ups ala double dragon, final fight, streets of rage, etc.
also, ninja gaiden has direction attacks, forward x and forward y exist, they're anywhere from lauchers, to grabs, etc. flying swallow is literally jump forward, hold forward and press the button to do the attack, some are proxy based where how close you are to the enemy. idk why you said that the times you mentioned NG, that is just misinformation even if you were trying to prove a point as to how people preceive dmc vs other games.
i have other things i wanna say but it's other tangents and that's my 2 cents on the main subject at hand.