The problem isn't that it changes automatically, but that it doesn't allow you to keep it in MTI. IRL, the Sapphire radar could override the automatic change of mode and keep itself in MTI. If they're going for "realism", then they should allow us to keep it in MTI mode as long as it's under 1800 AGL. Nerfing a plane like this and asking for such a huge price tag should definitely not be thing.
Even though the nerfs are warranted and historical, there should at least be some compensation. These planes cost $70 and shit like the F-20A is still missing basic shit like its Zuni rockets, the F-4S (isnt great anyway) has purposely shit belts and a sub-par missile set for what it is expected to fight, the A-6E is outright unusable because paveway II bombs and even the new AGM-123 dont function properly because they dont glide like they do IRL and they dont target properly either; and this has been the case for years for some of these planes. I've actually reported multiple times the issue with Paveway IIs and they keep labeling it as "not a bug" despite the very simple and thorough evidence i provide. They literally model the Paveway IIs like normal low drag dumb bombs and thats not how they should be at all.
the f1c's mti and most MTI in game were okay especially since the missiles coupled with them weren't that good either. Sapphire MTI radar is definitely special on it's own and the r24r pretty much equal Super TEMPs you would find at 12.0.
I took it once in sim. I had F4 creeped up all the way to my right side. I only noticed it because I looked to the right. Holy cow is the radar absolute garbage. Luckily, it was probably a new F4S player, so I managed to wiggle him off and launched at him. If it was any semi decent player, I'd have been dead before I noticed him
@@triparadox.c I played with German mla (that is identical to the ml) and yes it was much harder, only the mld is actually good. In sim Russians are severely outmatched from 8.0 and onward, it s probably the hardest tree to grind. They should really rework those br a little bit...
Funny enough the MiG-23ML and MLA have the better version of the SPO-10, called just SPO-10M and that can't track launches, but it can track the PD radars of the F-14/15/16 and maybe F-18, but I'm not sure
everyone is talking about the MTI change but no one talk about the fact that the standard pulse search went from 60 x 12 to 60 x 6, it's kinda big too imo.
I coulnt even lock enemies without MTI.. it keeps locking random shit 20-30 km away that don't even exist, as they don't move according to the radar.. or just lock random chaf outside of the ACM square because why not.. 2 days ago I tried to play this plane, and I couldn't for the fcuking love of Jesus lock an f14 5kms ahead of me, because the radar kept snapping to a chaf 30 degrees off the ACM area..
After the MTI nerf, I found that using R24T is more reliable IMO. But now I can't joust anymore. I have to play passive now. waiting someone that doesn't pay attention and slam it with IR missiles.
Idk but for me the radar lock is very good for a 11.7 plane, the bad thing is that r24r has strange lock, like for some reason it sometimes just wont lock on target that you got locked with radar
I just got it and i regret every penny of it. Every time i play it i get BVR’d by F-14As and Mirages. I can’t even fly it for a minute without getting hit by a missile I did not see coming and is impossible to dodge. This plane gives me depression.
i got it too,i dont mind the f14s and their phoenixes but 24rs are just so hard to make it work ,it forces u to be in a bad spot to make it work....sometimes.. i just run 24ts and r60ms ive gotten a 5 kill+1 teammate game with that loadout and now i stick to it
I found a little workaround for ACM MTI issues (although not as reliable) : Get a lock on IRST - Switch IRST to Radar - Target gets tracked (if not return to step 1) Don't forget to switch back to Radar if you want to launch fox1
I found this on my own too since I was done with using its automatic locking thing where it had the square of radar and it would be like way to the side away from what I want to lock
I would like to add something that is incredibly important regarding this jet, and its something it cant help, that being the Br it sits at, because while 11.3 is a perfect rating for this jet and is a strong contender there, the problem is 12.3 jets that you WILL fight nearly every game. No joke I played 20 matches and 16 of them were uptiers in which my team was rocked by AIM-9Ms and the BS splash damage from AIM-54s that missed but hit the ground near you critically damaging the airframe, which on a very maneuverable jet like this is very detrimental.
We should all come together and get Gaijin to stop uptiers. If my vehicle is a BR 11.3 why the F### would I want to be in a BR 12.3 match? This does happen way too often, I am sick of it. I’m sure I’m not in the minority either.
@@Maggieismydog BR compression is desired outcome to apply correct amount of frustration to the players and to push them into spending. If it wasn't, it would have been fixes years ago
I hate the AIM-54. Not only because of its awfully OP splash damage, but also because it can come at you from 20km away. I honestly want to uninstall the game every time I get hit by an AIM-54 from a F-14A that i didn’t see coming and is basically impossible to dodge. I tried dodging but i still got one of my wings chopped off.
F4J is not that bad as people make it out to be. Skyflash are some nasty head on missiles. And after that the plane have enough peformance to give a good player tatical freedom.
I bought the mig-23ml after the nerf, and it was my first mig 23. it has been amazing to grind with and even though it's nerfed, If you're smart, you can still pretty easily get 2 kills with r-24. and yes I do value your opinion and you're actually the reason I chose the mig-23 even though you mentioned it was getting nerfed. If I chose anything else I would've been disappointed.
I haven't played WT in months, but I came back to try out the Mig-23MLD and with the radar nerf... only thing hold that part together is the CW radar. Bought the F4-S and I have found myself absolutely enjoying the bueaty, the only problems I have with it is it's radar and RWR. But whenever the radar isn't being picky, it's missiles and loadouts are amazing, along side the high speed AOA. Though having a lot of AOA at high speeds on uneven land trying to avoid SARH and ARM at just the right alt to not get hit or splashed by scrapnel from the ground is annoying difficult ever since multipath nerf. And honestly with how picky the radar is, the HMD mode makes it more annoying because whenever you finally do get a lock, you accidently unlock since you've been spamming so long, Ij just try to stick to ACM mode and hope the radar doesn't default to HMD mode.
I don’t understand your argument about phantom, that is just worst flight model, who got compensated by a huge loadout and radar. While you lost your main armament of 24R and became comparable to what, phantoms in manuverability?! And about top 3 premium plane it’s just a trolling, I believe😂😂😂
Also I think they nerfed the r24r fuse delay, I used to fire a r24r at 2km, pull off while keeping the guy in the radar lock but now it doesnt blow up, I have played it with friends and found that it doesnt blow up but instead flys past the guy, the missle also seems to pull insane g at high alt like a ER and just fly off to the side of my screen all while having a good radar lock, perfect launch
All radar missiles have a 5 second prox arming time (to my understanding). Hitting people like that most of the time means the missile hit directly which can be done rather consistently if you line the shot up properly so it doesn't have to pull too much. This is why Sparrows end up failing to hit targets in close in shots even if it looked like it got close or it should've hit: Prox wasn't armed yet. Same case with the ER though it's not as frequent since it can pull way harder to directly hit while keeping its energy pretty well cuz of how strong its booster is. Basically, if you're firing up close you have to try to set the missile up to the best of your ability
@@KaguyasBeat no the r24r doesn't suffer the ER issue also the ER doesn't suffer that hypothetical as it has thrust vectoring plus the r24r is supposed to have a 1.7sec arming fuse when I checked last patch,
the second thing has been a thing for 90% of the high tier SARHs most noteably the AIM-7F/M, semi active missiles randomly just break at times maybe except the ER that has datalink to 'maybe' correct it mid flight
4:41 “little bit frustration”, this makes the MiG23 ML completely unplayable, if you try to fly high ehiugh to use MTI you will get killed instantly and by using normal radar mode the ground clutter will also make the radar unusable, it is not a small deal it is a huge deal, don’t buy the MiG 23ML it is completely garbage, u less gaijin moves it to 11.0 I am not going to touch that garbage. And to those who say “JuSt uSE R24T It iS NoT ThAT bAD”, 90% of R24Ts will get flared unintentionally bc it will 99% of the time track a lone flare over a real target.
Just ran a 30 minute Air Sim battle, it was 6 of them vs 2 of us. My Mig-23ML vs Premium Mirage and Phantoms. I bagged 11 targets for 6 losses. 2 were wing breaks chasing Phantoms and 1 was from airfield SPAA. We won. Granted the Jag did the ground pounding to win but I was gobbling up targets trying to down him. Won for 340,000 SL and 60,000 RP towards the Su-27SM. Yes the jet is very competitive and worth it. It just isn't clapping 90s era Gen 4s and getting away with it anymore.
Is it worth it rn in sim EC compared to su-39? I know it sounds like a cancer question but im just trying to decide what is faster and more consistent: doing pvp or pve
the biggest problem i have with all the mig23's now is aiming the gun causes the whole plane to do stupid rolling maneuvers sometimes causing the plane to hit something you weren't even flying towards
I just picked it up yesterday. I have more consistency with R-24T(IR), than the R-24R(SARH). I have most luck with 24Rs head on. They can still get chaff dumped and lose target tho. 24Ts can make it threw some flares if you can a good rear lock. Alright at front and side aspect if target doesn't flare dumped. 24Ts added benefit of not having to radar lock to fire, BUT the IR target mode lock helps you not teamkill with it if there is a friendly between you and the target, or get a further front aspect lock and shot. Took about a day to get the hang of but now i'm getting 2 and 3 kills a game. Feels nice to take down a F14, F15 >:)
Great video, thanks for cleaning confusions also I met you in a recent game where you were playing the new meteor, the rocket tk was unfortunate but I wonder how did you even manage to do that
It doesn’t start with a clean loadout for some reason so I picked the rocket loadout and just spammed them all off into the air on take off. It came down like 4km-5km away and landed on my teammate :/
I want to buy it, I need some help researching the tiers VII and VIII but waaay too many people say it is bad and not worth it for me to be comfortable spending money on it. I am conflicted.
Is hard to play it, not easy for sure even for pro player, it was nerfed a lot, expect dying a lot but you can grind out out tech tree still faster than normal grind.
This plane still kicks ass. Sim SB in VR with flight stick is by far the best way to play this game outside of ground RB. Plebs keep playing arcade mode in 3rd person
Honestly, never understood Sim mains. If you want to dive into a cockpit, there's dcs, and it does its job as a simulator way better than wt. For me, wt is good as a semi-arcade game where I can fly jets and use techniques I've learned in dcs without working hard with my brain or having a full evening dedicated for flying
The point of buying a plane like this is to actually grind to planes like the MLD. I’ve been seeing a lot of people saying Talismaning other high tier planes is more worth it.
@@justarius_9872 Yeah I understand most do, but I think they rather should buy the MiG21S, yes it has only a search radar + 4 r3rs (the second worst radar missile in game) but it is 9.7 and hilariously undertiered, (only because fighting F8E/U2 is almost impossible in a MiG21S) and I used it personally to get up to the MiG23MLD and I will talisman it next GE sale
Technically the F4F has better thrust to weight than the F4E at every altitude and speed and fuel load besides a small point around 20minutes where the f4e is slightly better
Played the mig-23ml since release and without much expirience in air combat, still love it even after nerf and my K/D is still solid, I can only recommend the plane, also the R-24T if used right can be a deadly "stealth" missile.
The Mig 23 ml/A/D isnt looking that bad on the performance anymore (how it performs now is almost identical to how it performed before) because gaijin did a hotfix on it some days after the update to correct its flight performance, but on patch day, it was Dogshit, i fly the Kurnass 2000 (F4E with more agressive agile eagle slats, slightly better at sharp turns) and i can dafely assume that the Mig 23 ML on patch day was worse than it, but that was adressed already, many people say that the MTI was the real nerf and i say that it kinda is, but the real nerf is that its ACM was increased in size, and cut in half on range, what is a shame since the R24R is better than the R27R on my Bison.
@@SeekerHead it was a pretty quick one, what is to be expected, when a Mig23ML suddently starts to rate worse than a MIG21MF you know you fucked something up... but still, glad they buffed it again, may not be as strong, but it feels like the old FM so im not complaining.
@@SeekerHeadthe hotfix was both a “real” fm improvement and an auto sweep wing adjustment for the new nerfed but fixed fm. Basically compared to before the wings stay swept at smaller angles, making the difference in normal fighting actually negligence. In the MLD case the slats now seem to give it the realistic efficiency increase at high AoA, meaning that the MLD is also the better rate fighter right now compared to MLA/ML
the biggest problem i had with it on patch day is aiming the gun while nearby to any sort of terrain feels like a death sentence, because of the weird way it handles now pulling high AOA maneuvers sometimes causes the plane to go completely off from where your actually pointing your mouse.
as a avid mig-23MLA, MLD and ML player, the Mig-23 flight model nerf did hit it pretty hard, however it is still good enough to defeat most aircrafts, it definitely was nerfed pretty hard, originally being able to pull up to 11gs at time, you will still defeat (most) aircrafts at your BR. I’ll add, pre-nerf, if you were experienced you were able to even give the f-14 a fight, now the f-14 if flown right will absolutely eat you alive. Besides that, i’d give it a 6/10, it will still grind pretty well.
As someone who nought itnat the sale.. i love the thing.. its not a flying tank ornanything.. its just enjoyable which is something this game needs sometimes
Does MTI really not work in look up? Moving Target Indication removes background clutter from the radar, surely it is still able to filter targets in look up mode using MTI its jsut there is no background for it to filter
It just auto switches from MTI when looking below the horizon, and automatically turns it off when looking above the horizon, which while true that IRL it does that, you can also force MTI on the radar so that you can keep it on, they just removed that
As is with everyone who cries about everything in this game, they don't understand the game. You pay for access to the vehicle, and not the vehicle as is. It is stated in the EULA that any content is subject to change at any time. This included BR, functionality of modules, etc. As per the usual, people made a purchase they didn't fully understand and now they're angry. Oh well. It's about time this game started getting back to the "historical accuracy" angle for it's vehicles instead of meta chasing.
when you talk about the chaff filter you are entirely wrong, having chaff locked will make your radar emit towards the chaff but sidelobes will still pick up the plane that has a higher closure rate towards you and thats what the missile will see, thats just how radar works.
CW guided missiles have chaff filters, they are often able to distinguish the radar return of chaff versus what should be the plane. This is why the Pulse guided missiles do not share such a feature you described above. 1 chaff will instantly kill a pulse missile as if it were a flare.
I get what everybody is saying, and they’re not wrong. That being said other vehicles also get screwed over because of the way things are supposed to work. The Bradleys don’t have to close their ATGM launcher when they move. IRL they do it to prevent possible damage from vibrations. That’s enough for Gaijin to make a manual process automatic and there’s nothing you can do to stop it.
4:51 All you have to do is just roll your plane over, turn the belly to the sky and neg-G towards enemies higher than you. Simple Gaijin coding isn't it? But I expect this will get fixed sooner or later.
Guys don’t worry, the plane is just fine. You’ll never be diving the furball, and your best option is to Simply snipe kills from low energy opponents, or attack from the side. If you are jousting in this plane in the first place you are doing something wrong.
I swear I took this out 3 times after the Nerf and went back to my american F4S wich now serves up the mig 23 with its better aim 7f. I think the SU22m3 is a better option the squad vehicle. Lower BR better match making 6 R60m missiles
I bought the plane yesterday, so far i have had a pretty good time with it getting 2+ kills very consistently. R-24R's and the planes raw thrust and speed at higher altitude is pretty disgusting that its pretty easy to get a drop on people in downtiers and even uptiers im in a very good position beginning of the match that i can get contest f16's f14 f15's when i get a first launch, most of my deaths happen from radar missiles i failed to evade. its not trashed imo
yeah its still very good, i think the only change its that you can no longer just turn your brain off with it and actually got to input skill into it, i recommend people use it as !r24r! !r60m! !r60m! !flare pod! !r60m! !r60m! !r24r!
Idk I'm just bad with dog fighting in the mig 23 ml because it compresses a lot but I'm also just bad.. but I do great in a phantom against the mig 23 so I just play the phantom
I was in the F14A. Faced a Mig-23ML. He went horizontally, I went vertically. After the first turn he went vertically, and I continued my second vertical course. I took him down when he was coming down and i was vertical.
The flight model changes should not matter to anyone since the large majority of war thunder players don't even engage in conventional dogfights anymore. Everyone knows that missiles carry the game and you should realistically not be taking fights against planes that have a situational advantage over you. Look at F14 players thinking they're maverick for example. This change was overblown by the community.
You must be an American main cause this things only advantage is the r24t and flight performance, the radar is now shit, the r24r is shit, the flight performance is shit and this thing is what I used to use as I would survive till the end, and 1v 2, where flight performance matters, but now I have to ask my teamates for help up against a f4s cause I play like the old model,
The r60m is only good in very close range or super close head on, it is a 1 flare unless afterburners otherwise it flys through all of them, the r24r got a fuze delay nerf I think as it isn't blowing up when last patch it would have, also the r24t seeker got nerfed and locks at 8km front instead of 10km, it gives the person a missile diamond because of this, it would stop burning once someone could usually see it but now it doesnt
Hey Seek! What do you think about the F1C? France is my last tree to grind and I have the reward Mirage that I love at 11.7 but I'm getting fed up with the RP penalty.
One think i think you are drastically overlooking is the fact that mig23ml has an spo10 rwr In previous patches this wasnt really a problem since you could very consistantly dodge radar missles by flying low but now its no longer the case And that means that planes such as mirage f1c200 and mig23ml (and the j35xs partially) have recieved a huge nerf in their consistancy because you are now forced to play against f14's or other american planes with multiple radar missles and a pd radar and your ability to notch is very inconsitant and impossible at shorter ranges Personally as someone who has played mig23mla and miragef1c200 this patch i would definetly not recomend them in the current state of air rb simply because you are in a radar missles meta where your radar and your missles and your rwr are worse then the avionics of majority of enemies you encounter Also for mig23's performance While claims that it will loose to a phantom are stupid you have to remember that almost all your games will be 11.7 or 12.0 and planes such as f14, f16, mig29, or even mirage2000 are now much harder to kill in a mig23 which in previous patches was possible if the enemy made some mistakes
@@pko6596 Maybe 12.0 solid, but there aren't many 12.0 solid planes. 12.3 I GUESS still happens but most of those BR's get uptiered into 13.0 where everyone's at right now.
@@jedinight235 what are you talking about 90% of 12.0 are f16 or mig29 and both just shit on you no contest most 11.7 planes apart from subsonic attackers also clap the mig23 now ofc mig23 already was at a disadvantage before patch but now it is much higher
I'm going to "trust you" (no pressure) and buy it to grind russian tech tree and to grind marathones later. Gonna get your decal too, it looks good, but it's too American to put it on a russian plane :D I'll put it on a10
One big thing is to try switching to smaller tech trees, like Sweden, they have less things to research so it goes faster, and it helps that the ground and air trees are pretty good all the way to top tier
@@tristandaries1129 Sweden rank 6-7 is almost objectively bad, and since it requires you to purchase EVERY jet from like tier 4 and onwards it's not really faster to grind than any other nation. Especially since there aren't reaaally any "good" grinders, J35XS is alright but if you dont get the XS and try going stock then good luck getting through tier 6 with ur conscience intact lmao
I’m about 380 hours in and I’m in tier 7 of the emerican air tree.i play mainly aviation.but to progress I do recommend sticking to one tree and grinding it out to the end.if you do bit by bit in All trees it will take forever to get past tier 5-6-7 on any of them in my opinion.
Also you get wing slats which pull alot more but bleed speed a bit faster, no that much with the recent energy retention buff but more, basically going from a f4j to f4s, not much but noticable
The reason your feelibg like this is because you dont have any missles on, are at optimal fuel, try 20min and you would have the wings fully swept back and would take about 5 seconds before fully coming out. In a real fight this thing gets ruined by the f4s
Why would you dogfight with the wings fully swept back? If you want higher AoA, 15 or 20 degrees is the best sweep, 10 is a great middle ground, and 0 and 5 degrees are best for ratefighting.
don't you think there is some propaganda in there, because i am secretly you watched that one video about mig-23 in america. and they only had early variants mf and lower. and now as the mig-23,s have their real turn rate ingame imagine how much the f-4 is overperforming
Well, i'm watching this footage of you flying at 8k meters, and im just wondering where all the f-14s are in your matches, I fight them every single match lol. Where's all the pheonix missiles being shot at you which require you to ground skim?
😱 0:36 (i am famous 😎) No but seriously for me the biggest change (I played the MLD not ML) is for sure MTI, as search radar is just useless, one chaff and its gone, but MTI keeps track through all chaff (unless multipathing) and I honestly don't feel dogfight capabilities are too important for the mig23s I did win a dogfight against a F14 (with a stock MLD) so I think it's mostly the MTI change most people are angry about as again, dogfight heavily depends on the enemy's skill (mostly) and dogfight tend to happen rarely, or the dogfight rarely finishes without someone shooting a missile from far away hitting you mid dogfight. (Which I have done many times towards end game, seeing my teammate dogfight the last enemy plane you just fire a missile and they will very often be too occupied and won't see it)
5:03. Radars with CW guidance have chaff filters. Even if the radar appears to be locked onto chaff (post-launch), just leave it and wait to see if the missile hits, often times it will if the target isn’t close to notching
@@SeekerHead Have only seen that with MTI and have had a really hard time against chaff with search mode but I can try to shoot some radars in search and see what happens
@SeekerHead Okay so I did some testing with search mode, and I have to be honest and say my R24R performed way worse without MTI, I don't know if it were bad scenarios, but it lost track way easier to chaff, only times it were reliable were rear aspects from less than 2km. Only thing that was similar with MTI were headons, but I had big problems from side to 45 degree aspect launches, something I never have with MTI and that the missile has always hit with MTI not even reacting to chaff (just the visual radar lock) you have had anything similar happen or? All of this was with the mig23mld by the way🤔🤔🤔
@@mangosuppe8706 iam having a hard time using the 24rs with the ML too i use 24ts and 60s now but they eat flares like its nobody's business and only works against very unwary players so its not consistent ,,suffered my way to top tier ge arb and grb as a f2p xD thought the mig23ml experience will be better but sheesh any tips that you can share ? since you use the mld version
@wasntprepared well your main problem is your radar/rwr difference from MLD you have the spo10, I have the spo15 which means that you dont get launch/radar warnings and dont get much information from radar pings, what I usually do is mainly use r60ms first/offensively as every single radar missile except for the supers WILL BEAT YOUR MISSILE, they pull more, are slightly quicker and they usually have 4 or more. What I do is always follow my team at the start of the match usually a flank, if I get a launch warning I notch/counter it by going even further left making sure I dont enter a possibke furball, then I dive in later and try to launch r60ms at people side aspect, rarely head ons. Then I never take radar missile duels as at best you will trade. I uaually use the r24r on people that already are in a dogfight or is flying AWAY from me, as mti is a bitch in rear aspect (bitch in a good way ofc)
I think buying a premium is the problem. Everyone knows Gaijin nerfs them one month after sale, and you never get whats advertised, you end up bullying all the non premiums and it's basically either a speed bomber or a no skill free kill machine. If you want to buy normal planes, i think that's fine, but premiums are either garbage or unfair to everyone else playing or paying normally.
i would love some guide on the mig23ml or something cuz i played only ground rb i now switched to air rb and its like easy to get kill or 2 but i know i can get more but dont know how to do it
it's not all bad tbh I can consistently get 2 kills with r24's alone and premium F-4S pilots are easy pickings with the R-60's. Yeah the flight performance is bad yet I still managed to win a 1v4 in it and had a fun little dogfight with an f-16 and won. ML or MLD either is alright but there is one thing this playerbase has lost ever since we got things like the F-100, a brain.
Peeps just gonna have to use there noggin and deal with it. Plus this jet is for sure on the top of the list for a premium buy I mean look at the J35XS not even having a single radar missile or even the J-7D or even the Kfir Canard for highest tier premiums in nations. Plus buying the Mig23 right now at half price ya cant complain for thirty something bucks snf getting 2500 GE and premium time for almost a month worth. The Mig-23ML is VERY usable still and these nerfs really arent the bad, I mean it could have been a lot worse.
I want to grind some russian planes for ground battles, and while I have su25k + su22m3 with a talisman, I'm debating buying mig23, because, while nerfed, there's just no other way to speed things up. About nerfing premuims after the fact - it's a scam from their side imo. Sometimes nerfs are justified, for example when there are some global changes in the game, but not when it's like that... not for 70$
Mig23 still works. Its main strength was the ability to choose your fight because of its high speed and great flares, and they are still there. Radar and r24r do still work too
That’s your opinion from your point of view. I respect that, but not everybody would agree with you. It’s in the game and is the flag of the jet that I’m flying. I also play Israel. Many people would complain seeing an Israel flag as well. It’s in the flag of the jet I’m flying in the game. They’re ultimately just symbols, I don’t find symbols to be something I can’t bare to see. If you’re offended by flags and symbols then maybe War Thunder isn’t for you. I can’t wait until you find out about the Japanese Rising Sun. The flag of an army that raped and tortured an entire country. History is brutal and has many sides to it, you’ll encounter stuff you dont like about it all over the place and war thunder is filled with history
In a realistic scenario you will still most likely lose to the phantom, it has quite an advantage in the first few turns and will gain a significant positional advantage in those turns, meanwhile you have to sustain AOA dogfight it and bleed the F-4E's speed till it has lost, hoping that the F-4E's pilot doesnt know how to aim or use it's better position against you
I don't feel bad at all with these changes it, gaijin gave the mig 23 platform an insane ego boost per say when it came to performance because the mig 23 is one of the worst fighter jets they ever created next to the mig 25, MTI was the soviet version of PD and it was extremely inferior, i mained the german MLA and the fact i was able to 3v1 vs F 16s at 12.0 and won, secured 2 kills every match with R24Rs because no one was able to dodge them (not even hugging the ground) and be faster than the JA37, even though the mig 23 is 2 tons heavier, the the Viggen got their acceleration nerfed because back then, they were dunking on MLD players but the mig 23s kept their insane accelerations.
Those f16 and vigen players must have been shit unless you were head on and used the r24r but in my experience I think they nerfed the fuse delay on the r24r as it doesn't blow up sometimes in a head on even though it near misses physically hitting the guy
@@TallyPatka-dz2cz they weren't but they also weren't expecting me to sustain a two circle turn fight at 620 km which is the proper speed of the F16 to win said fight, when the other guy went vertical i followed and regain my speed while climbing and killed him, the other 2 became a boom and zoom for me, and the viggen comment is how fast it was on release, and that plane has the RM8B variant of their engine which is a 98% performance improvement, but like i said before, gaijin after the first week, reduced the acceleration by a solid 40% to what we have now, were an F5C, a plane with extremely weak engines, can keep up with you for a solid 30 seconds.
The problem isn't that it changes automatically, but that it doesn't allow you to keep it in MTI. IRL, the Sapphire radar could override the automatic change of mode and keep itself in MTI. If they're going for "realism", then they should allow us to keep it in MTI mode as long as it's under 1800 AGL.
Nerfing a plane like this and asking for such a huge price tag should definitely not be thing.
You should make a Gaijin report then, tbf the guy that asked it for the nerf have so much evidence that's why Gaijin accept it.
@@muhamadafrifauzi5695We’re taking about gaijin, they only accept data that they choose to use. Most of the time it’ll just fall on def ears.
Even though the nerfs are warranted and historical, there should at least be some compensation. These planes cost $70 and shit like the F-20A is still missing basic shit like its Zuni rockets, the F-4S (isnt great anyway) has purposely shit belts and a sub-par missile set for what it is expected to fight, the A-6E is outright unusable because paveway II bombs and even the new AGM-123 dont function properly because they dont glide like they do IRL and they dont target properly either; and this has been the case for years for some of these planes. I've actually reported multiple times the issue with Paveway IIs and they keep labeling it as "not a bug" despite the very simple and thorough evidence i provide. They literally model the Paveway IIs like normal low drag dumb bombs and thats not how they should be at all.
@@fire_drake12.arc.24wym all 11.3 pulse Doppler phantoms are cracked if you fly right
Everybody has already the 23ML, now they want to push us to buy the Su-39 XD
The MTI nerf is the last straw for me. I'm afraid the snail will do the same with the Mirage F1C too.
Well at least for mirage f1c, sarh ain’t that crucial as long as it has magic 2
@@k3i-912Imagine if they removed the magic 2s
@@martinwellhoefer9159 then it'll be 10.7 at max
530F gets fooled by chaff anyways in mti mode so it doesnt matter much
the f1c's mti and most MTI in game were okay especially since the missiles coupled with them weren't that good either. Sapphire MTI radar is definitely special on it's own and the r24r pretty much equal Super TEMPs you would find at 12.0.
At least they nerfed it before the sale instead of after like they usually do.
ofc is 2nd nerf after sale
A6E tram moment
There will be a second nerf after the sail maybe not directly after but i give it like a couple weeks or month after
@@CheetoStains77 ofc for all family of Migs 23 to 9.7 BN- fly mechanics downgrade (BN has only this- no words)
Also for the people that want to use this in sim: careful, because its RWR might not be able to pick up pd signals, differently from the mld that can.
Yes, that's the main problem in Sim now. The average F-4S pilot not very good, but if they are good it's a huge problem
@@cercata exactly... unfortunately there s no way to test rwr unless you already have a friend that owns it
I took it once in sim. I had F4 creeped up all the way to my right side. I only noticed it because I looked to the right. Holy cow is the radar absolute garbage. Luckily, it was probably a new F4S player, so I managed to wiggle him off and launched at him. If it was any semi decent player, I'd have been dead before I noticed him
@@triparadox.c I played with German mla (that is identical to the ml) and yes it was much harder, only the mld is actually good. In sim Russians are severely outmatched from 8.0 and onward, it s probably the hardest tree to grind. They should really rework those br a little bit...
Funny enough the MiG-23ML and MLA have the better version of the SPO-10, called just SPO-10M and that can't track launches, but it can track the PD radars of the F-14/15/16 and maybe F-18, but I'm not sure
got to the Mig-23m, first stock grind that actually feels painful
everyone is talking about the MTI change but no one talk about the fact that the standard pulse search went from 60 x 12 to 60 x 6, it's kinda big too imo.
I'd call that a buff... faster scanning is amazing
Lol is not faster, it gives a huge hándicap in sim, specially with the trash not historically accurate automatic mti@@kajmak64bit76
I coulnt even lock enemies without MTI.. it keeps locking random shit 20-30 km away that don't even exist, as they don't move according to the radar.. or just lock random chaf outside of the ACM square because why not.. 2 days ago I tried to play this plane, and I couldn't for the fcuking love of Jesus lock an f14 5kms ahead of me, because the radar kept snapping to a chaf 30 degrees off the ACM area..
After the MTI nerf, I found that using R24T is more reliable IMO.
But now I can't joust anymore. I have to play passive now. waiting someone that doesn't pay attention and slam it with IR missiles.
Yeah about that they will just unintentionally flare it unless they are like a level 10 player who doesn’t have flares keybinded
At least you can now mix R 24T and R 24R like on MLA and MLD
Idk but for me the radar lock is very good for a 11.7 plane, the bad thing is that r24r has strange lock, like for some reason it sometimes just wont lock on target that you got locked with radar
It’s my favourite target in my f14
I just got it and i regret every penny of it. Every time i play it i get BVR’d by F-14As and Mirages. I can’t even fly it for a minute without getting hit by a missile I did not see coming and is impossible to dodge. This plane gives me depression.
If you have never played that tier you’re going to have to learn how it plays, regardless of what plane you’re using
i got it too,i dont mind the f14s and their phoenixes but 24rs are just so hard to make it work ,it forces u to be in a bad spot to make it work....sometimes..
i just run 24ts and r60ms ive gotten a 5 kill+1 teammate game with that loadout and now i stick to it
I found a little workaround for ACM MTI issues (although not as reliable) :
Get a lock on IRST - Switch IRST to Radar - Target gets tracked (if not return to step 1)
Don't forget to switch back to Radar if you want to launch fox1
I found this on my own too since I was done with using its automatic locking thing where it had the square of radar and it would be like way to the side away from what I want to lock
Using mig 23 on xbox btw
23ML had such a hard nerf, the negative GS ripping of its wings is just pathetic, the energy bleed is unplayable and the auto MTI
Thanks for the DECAL.
Everyday I think to myself "damn.... that's a sick decal...." and then I go on with my day
Nerfing a premium vehicle which people bought with lots of money because it was good should be illegal
They did it for the A6E tram too
I think it's illegal in eu..
problem isnt the nerf is the new jets that are 1 br higher that will snipe you from 20k away, very hard to evade those missiles
I would like to add something that is incredibly important regarding this jet, and its something it cant help, that being the Br it sits at, because while 11.3 is a perfect rating for this jet and is a strong contender there, the problem is 12.3 jets that you WILL fight nearly every game. No joke I played 20 matches and 16 of them were uptiers in which my team was rocked by AIM-9Ms and the BS splash damage from AIM-54s that missed but hit the ground near you critically damaging the airframe, which on a very maneuverable jet like this is very detrimental.
We should all come together and get Gaijin to stop uptiers. If my vehicle is a BR 11.3 why the F### would I want to be in a BR 12.3 match? This does happen way too often, I am sick of it. I’m sure I’m not in the minority either.
@@Maggieismydog BR compression is desired outcome to apply correct amount of frustration to the players and to push them into spending. If it wasn't, it would have been fixes years ago
I hate the AIM-54. Not only because of its awfully OP splash damage, but also because it can come at you from 20km away. I honestly want to uninstall the game every time I get hit by an AIM-54 from a F-14A that i didn’t see coming and is basically impossible to dodge. I tried dodging but i still got one of my wings chopped off.
@@therealspeedwagon1451 Then you can uninstall now, as Phoenixes are merely demo version compared to AMRAAMs in terms of lethality.
its impossible to use it on sim
i bought it and its fine there are definitly worse 11.0+ premiums out there ...looking at you F4Junk
the F-4J UK is good, the F-4EJ ADTW is literally right there.
@@r1zmy they're both ass
F4junk is a fusion between the f4j and an fgr with all the good parts taken off
@@stormjet814how do you destroy such a beautiful plane? Ask gaijin
@@r1zmy yeah i got the ADTW too and with its current loadout and radar its 10.7 at best, certainly not 11.0 material
F4J is not that bad as people make it out to be. Skyflash are some nasty head on missiles. And after that the plane have enough peformance to give a good player tatical freedom.
I bought the mig-23ml after the nerf, and it was my first mig 23. it has been amazing to grind with and even though it's nerfed, If you're smart, you can still pretty easily get 2 kills with r-24. and yes I do value your opinion and you're actually the reason I chose the mig-23 even though you mentioned it was getting nerfed. If I chose anything else I would've been disappointed.
I haven't played WT in months, but I came back to try out the Mig-23MLD and with the radar nerf... only thing hold that part together is the CW radar. Bought the F4-S and I have found myself absolutely enjoying the bueaty, the only problems I have with it is it's radar and RWR. But whenever the radar isn't being picky, it's missiles and loadouts are amazing, along side the high speed AOA.
Though having a lot of AOA at high speeds on uneven land trying to avoid SARH and ARM at just the right alt to not get hit or splashed by scrapnel from the ground is annoying difficult ever since multipath nerf. And honestly with how picky the radar is, the HMD mode makes it more annoying because whenever you finally do get a lock, you accidently unlock since you've been spamming so long, Ij just try to stick to ACM mode and hope the radar doesn't default to HMD mode.
I don’t understand your argument about phantom, that is just worst flight model, who got compensated by a huge loadout and radar. While you lost your main armament of 24R and became comparable to what, phantoms in manuverability?!
And about top 3 premium plane it’s just a trolling, I believe😂😂😂
Gaijin just made another primium thats not fun shocker
Also I think they nerfed the r24r fuse delay, I used to fire a r24r at 2km, pull off while keeping the guy in the radar lock but now it doesnt blow up, I have played it with friends and found that it doesnt blow up but instead flys past the guy, the missle also seems to pull insane g at high alt like a ER and just fly off to the side of my screen all while having a good radar lock, perfect launch
That 2nd part the 24R has been doing for ages, just weird radar shadowing shit. But the fuze part, sounds new
All radar missiles have a 5 second prox arming time (to my understanding). Hitting people like that most of the time means the missile hit directly which can be done rather consistently if you line the shot up properly so it doesn't have to pull too much. This is why Sparrows end up failing to hit targets in close in shots even if it looked like it got close or it should've hit: Prox wasn't armed yet. Same case with the ER though it's not as frequent since it can pull way harder to directly hit while keeping its energy pretty well cuz of how strong its booster is. Basically, if you're firing up close you have to try to set the missile up to the best of your ability
@@KaguyasBeat no the r24r doesn't suffer the ER issue also the ER doesn't suffer that hypothetical as it has thrust vectoring plus the r24r is supposed to have a 1.7sec arming fuse when I checked last patch,
@sharcc2511 are you talking about the mti thing where it tracks like the chaff for a second then tracks the plane and yeah the fuse thing is very new
the second thing has been a thing for 90% of the high tier SARHs most noteably the AIM-7F/M, semi active missiles randomly just break at times maybe except the ER that has datalink to 'maybe' correct it mid flight
4:41 “little bit frustration”, this makes the MiG23 ML completely unplayable, if you try to fly high ehiugh to use MTI you will get killed instantly and by using normal radar mode the ground clutter will also make the radar unusable, it is not a small deal it is a huge deal, don’t buy the MiG 23ML it is completely garbage, u less gaijin moves it to 11.0 I am not going to touch that garbage. And to those who say “JuSt uSE R24T It iS NoT ThAT bAD”, 90% of R24Ts will get flared unintentionally bc it will 99% of the time track a lone flare over a real target.
you haven't played with a lot of planes if you think the MIG23 is garbage, sounds like you have skill issue.
mti makes the radar honestly unusable
Just ran a 30 minute Air Sim battle, it was 6 of them vs 2 of us. My Mig-23ML vs Premium Mirage and Phantoms. I bagged 11 targets for 6 losses. 2 were wing breaks chasing Phantoms and 1 was from airfield SPAA.
We won. Granted the Jag did the ground pounding to win but I was gobbling up targets trying to down him.
Won for 340,000 SL and 60,000 RP towards the Su-27SM. Yes the jet is very competitive and worth it. It just isn't clapping 90s era Gen 4s and getting away with it anymore.
Is it worth it rn in sim EC compared to su-39? I know it sounds like a cancer question but im just trying to decide what is faster and more consistent: doing pvp or pve
the biggest problem i have with all the mig23's now is aiming the gun causes the whole plane to do stupid rolling maneuvers sometimes causing the plane to hit something you weren't even flying towards
I just picked it up yesterday. I have more consistency with R-24T(IR), than the R-24R(SARH).
I have most luck with 24Rs head on. They can still get chaff dumped and lose target tho. 24Ts can make it threw some flares if you can a good rear lock. Alright at front and side aspect if target doesn't flare dumped. 24Ts added benefit of not having to radar lock to fire, BUT the IR target mode lock helps you not teamkill with it if there is a friendly between you and the target, or get a further front aspect lock and shot.
Took about a day to get the hang of but now i'm getting 2 and 3 kills a game. Feels nice to take down a F14, F15 >:)
If you got chaffed, dont turn off the lock, r24r will still hit. It has interference protection
Great video, thanks for cleaning confusions also I met you in a recent game where you were playing the new meteor, the rocket tk was unfortunate but I wonder how did you even manage to do that
It doesn’t start with a clean loadout for some reason so I picked the rocket loadout and just spammed them all off into the air on take off. It came down like 4km-5km away and landed on my teammate :/
@@SeekerHead Whoops
I want to buy it, I need some help researching the tiers VII and VIII but waaay too many people say it is bad and not worth it for me to be comfortable spending money on it. I am conflicted.
I think, its worth if you know how to use it
Is hard to play it, not easy for sure even for pro player, it was nerfed a lot, expect dying a lot but you can grind out out tech tree still faster than normal grind.
Ik its 2 months later but it’s literally one of the easiest planes to fly if you get it you’ll have a great time
This plane still kicks ass. Sim SB in VR with flight stick is by far the best way to play this game outside of ground RB. Plebs keep playing arcade mode in 3rd person
Honestly, never understood Sim mains. If you want to dive into a cockpit, there's dcs, and it does its job as a simulator way better than wt. For me, wt is good as a semi-arcade game where I can fly jets and use techniques I've learned in dcs without working hard with my brain or having a full evening dedicated for flying
Dcs doesn't have mig23
I would say that buying talisman on MiG-23MLD is a better option
It always has been (MLD is a later and better version of the MiG-23ML)
If you have the MLD, I agree, or even the MiG21SMT. Lot of people shopping for an ML won’t though.
The point of buying a plane like this is to actually grind to planes like the MLD. I’ve been seeing a lot of people saying Talismaning other high tier planes is more worth it.
@@justarius_9872 Yeah I understand most do, but I think they rather should buy the MiG21S, yes it has only a search radar + 4 r3rs (the second worst radar missile in game) but it is 9.7 and hilariously undertiered, (only because fighting F8E/U2 is almost impossible in a MiG21S) and I used it personally to get up to the MiG23MLD and I will talisman it next GE sale
@@justarius_9872 100% I already owned the MLD before rank 8 was introduced and putting a talisman on it carried my grind through all the rank 8's
Technically the F4F has better thrust to weight than the F4E at every altitude and speed and fuel load besides a small point around 20minutes where the f4e is slightly better
4:50 No, no it will not work just fine.
Any way to get a tutorial on how to use the radar now that it has changed?
with my mig 23 i deactivate and ignore the radar... i always use the T missiles and go for long flanks on the right side of the map
R-24R are pretty crap on Mig-23ML as of Lately.
Played the mig-23ml since release and without much expirience in air combat, still love it even after nerf and my K/D is still solid, I can only recommend the plane, also the R-24T if used right can be a deadly "stealth" missile.
The Mig 23 ml/A/D isnt looking that bad on the performance anymore (how it performs now is almost identical to how it performed before) because gaijin did a hotfix on it some days after the update to correct its flight performance, but on patch day, it was Dogshit, i fly the Kurnass 2000 (F4E with more agressive agile eagle slats, slightly better at sharp turns) and i can dafely assume that the Mig 23 ML on patch day was worse than it, but that was adressed already, many people say that the MTI was the real nerf and i say that it kinda is, but the real nerf is that its ACM was increased in size, and cut in half on range, what is a shame since the R24R is better than the R27R on my Bison.
I wasn't aware that it was hotfixed around the time of the patch. Thanks for the info
@@SeekerHead it was a pretty quick one, what is to be expected, when a Mig23ML suddently starts to rate worse than a MIG21MF you know you fucked something up... but still, glad they buffed it again, may not be as strong, but it feels like the old FM so im not complaining.
@@SeekerHeadthe hotfix was both a “real” fm improvement and an auto sweep wing adjustment for the new nerfed but fixed fm. Basically compared to before the wings stay swept at smaller angles, making the difference in normal fighting actually negligence.
In the MLD case the slats now seem to give it the realistic efficiency increase at high AoA, meaning that the MLD is also the better rate fighter right now compared to MLA/ML
the biggest problem i had with it on patch day is aiming the gun while nearby to any sort of terrain feels like a death sentence, because of the weird way it handles now pulling high AOA maneuvers sometimes causes the plane to go completely off from where your actually pointing your mouse.
yep, the nerf on the acm mode makes it a lot harder to lock on targets which is the biggest nerf on mig 23 for me
as a avid mig-23MLA, MLD and ML player, the Mig-23 flight model nerf did hit it pretty hard, however it is still good enough to defeat most aircrafts, it definitely was nerfed pretty hard, originally being able to pull up to 11gs at time, you will still defeat (most) aircrafts at your BR.
I’ll add, pre-nerf, if you were experienced you were able to even give the f-14 a fight, now the f-14 if flown right will absolutely eat you alive. Besides that, i’d give it a 6/10, it will still grind pretty well.
they fixed the sustained turn rate to around 500+ the mti thing is because of auto-radar thing so it would be easier for people to use the radar
yeah it is automatic in real life, but pilots can overide the mode when needed
they got to add a button to overide manual toggle of the radar
As someone who nought itnat the sale.. i love the thing.. its not a flying tank ornanything.. its just enjoyable which is something this game needs sometimes
Does MTI really not work in look up? Moving Target Indication removes background clutter from the radar, surely it is still able to filter targets in look up mode using MTI its jsut there is no background for it to filter
It just auto switches from MTI when looking below the horizon, and automatically turns it off when looking above the horizon, which while true that IRL it does that, you can also force MTI on the radar so that you can keep it on, they just removed that
Why it's is not on sale on PlayStation store???
At this point I would take basic SRC over this automatic bullshit
As is with everyone who cries about everything in this game, they don't understand the game. You pay for access to the vehicle, and not the vehicle as is.
It is stated in the EULA that any content is subject to change at any time. This included BR, functionality of modules, etc.
As per the usual, people made a purchase they didn't fully understand and now they're angry. Oh well.
It's about time this game started getting back to the "historical accuracy" angle for it's vehicles instead of meta chasing.
If its historically accurate then its fine. If its artificial then obviously no. Prems should not be exempt from balancing.
when you talk about the chaff filter you are entirely wrong, having chaff locked will make your radar emit towards the chaff but sidelobes will still pick up the plane that has a higher closure rate towards you and thats what the missile will see, thats just how radar works.
CW guided missiles have chaff filters, they are often able to distinguish the radar return of chaff versus what should be the plane. This is why the Pulse guided missiles do not share such a feature you described above. 1 chaff will instantly kill a pulse missile as if it were a flare.
I get what everybody is saying, and they’re not wrong. That being said other vehicles also get screwed over because of the way things are supposed to work. The Bradleys don’t have to close their ATGM launcher when they move. IRL they do it to prevent possible damage from vibrations. That’s enough for Gaijin to make a manual process automatic and there’s nothing you can do to stop it.
The R530Fs on the Mirage F1C are reliable now. They work just as well as sparrows against targets just chaffing.
4:51 All you have to do is just roll your plane over, turn the belly to the sky and neg-G towards enemies higher than you. Simple Gaijin coding isn't it? But I expect this will get fixed sooner or later.
If that actually works that’s funny
@@SeekerHead It worked the last time I tried the mig23, but it was a week ago. It might have changed, better do some tests.
Guys don’t worry, the plane is just fine. You’ll never be diving the furball, and your best option is to
Simply snipe kills from low energy opponents, or attack from the side. If you are jousting in this plane in the first place you are doing something wrong.
After this fucked br "decompression" I don't think buying prem jets is a good idea
honestly the only thing that bugs me is the mti change. it sucks.
I swear I took this out 3 times after the Nerf and went back to my american F4S wich now serves up the mig 23 with its better aim 7f. I think the SU22m3 is a better option the squad vehicle. Lower BR better match making 6 R60m missiles
I just reccomended my friend to buy it. L
I bought the plane yesterday, so far i have had a pretty good time with it getting 2+ kills very consistently. R-24R's and the planes raw thrust and speed at higher altitude is pretty disgusting that its pretty easy to get a drop on people in downtiers and even uptiers im in a very good position beginning of the match that i can get contest f16's f14 f15's when i get a first launch, most of my deaths happen from radar missiles i failed to evade. its not trashed imo
yeah its still very good, i think the only change its that you can no longer just turn your brain off with it and actually got to input skill into it, i recommend people use it as !r24r! !r60m! !r60m! !flare pod! !r60m! !r60m! !r24r!
I have beaten a mig 21 in a dogfight with a phantom
f4f is more maneuverable than f4s or f4j to my knowledge
It is the exact same as the F-4E, which I show in the video
You think since america got a 12.0 premium Russia is going to ?
Likely
i want your decal but i dont want to give gaijin my money until its worth it
How were you able to climb so high and stay high? I always get folded by amraams and long range radar missiles
Can lose to a phantom I’m confused. I’ve never had MG 23 beat me.😂
If you put a monkey in an F16 it’ll lose to a phantom. That’s not the point when making objective comparisons about the planes
Idk I'm just bad with dog fighting in the mig 23 ml because it compresses a lot but I'm also just bad.. but I do great in a phantom against the mig 23 so I just play the phantom
I just got it to really help me grind out Russia and compliment the event SU 25 that has the R-73's
I was in the F14A. Faced a Mig-23ML. He went horizontally, I went vertically. After the first turn he went vertically, and I continued my second vertical course. I took him down when he was coming down and i was vertical.
The flight model changes should not matter to anyone since the large majority of war thunder players don't even engage in conventional dogfights anymore. Everyone knows that missiles carry the game and you should realistically not be taking fights against planes that have a situational advantage over you. Look at F14 players thinking they're maverick for example. This change was overblown by the community.
You must be an American main cause this things only advantage is the r24t and flight performance, the radar is now shit, the r24r is shit, the flight performance is shit and this thing is what I used to use as I would survive till the end, and 1v 2, where flight performance matters, but now I have to ask my teamates for help up against a f4s cause I play like the old model,
The MiG 23 ML is still vastly superior to the entirety of its competition
The r60m is only good in very close range or super close head on, it is a 1 flare unless afterburners otherwise it flys through all of them, the r24r got a fuze delay nerf I think as it isn't blowing up when last patch it would have, also the r24t seeker got nerfed and locks at 8km front instead of 10km, it gives the person a missile diamond because of this, it would stop burning once someone could usually see it but now it doesnt
Hey Seek! What do you think about the F1C? France is my last tree to grind and I have the reward Mirage that I love at 11.7 but I'm getting fed up with the RP penalty.
F1C is a good grinder
One think i think you are drastically overlooking is the fact that mig23ml has an spo10 rwr
In previous patches this wasnt really a problem since you could very consistantly dodge radar missles by flying low but now its no longer the case
And that means that planes such as mirage f1c200 and mig23ml (and the j35xs partially) have recieved a huge nerf in their consistancy because you are now forced to play against f14's or other american planes with multiple radar missles and a pd radar and your ability to notch is very inconsitant and impossible at shorter ranges
Personally as someone who has played mig23mla and miragef1c200 this patch i would definetly not recomend them in the current state of air rb simply because you are in a radar missles meta where your radar and your missles and your rwr are worse then the avionics of majority of enemies you encounter
Also for mig23's performance
While claims that it will loose to a phantom are stupid you have to remember that almost all your games will be 11.7 or 12.0 and planes such as f14, f16, mig29, or even mirage2000 are now much harder to kill in a mig23 which in previous patches was possible if the enemy made some mistakes
Like hello
12.0+ games are being sucked into 13.0 right now. 11.7 is the only problem with Aim-54's being softbuffed with the multipathing change.
@@jedinight235 Not in my experience the 11.3 is still 12.0 simulator and even 12.3 often
@@pko6596 Maybe 12.0 solid, but there aren't many 12.0 solid planes. 12.3 I GUESS still happens but most of those BR's get uptiered into 13.0 where everyone's at right now.
@@jedinight235 what are you talking about 90% of 12.0 are f16 or mig29 and both just shit on you no contest
most 11.7 planes apart from subsonic attackers also clap the mig23 now
ofc mig23 already was at a disadvantage before patch but now it is much higher
I'm going to "trust you" (no pressure) and buy it to grind russian tech tree and to grind marathones later.
Gonna get your decal too, it looks good, but it's too American to put it on a russian plane :D I'll put it on a10
is cock and balls torture for new players but you if youre into that than is worth it 100%
Seek thanks for another amazing video. But do you have any tips on grinding faster I have over 600 hours and I am just not moving in tech trees.
One big thing is to try switching to smaller tech trees, like Sweden, they have less things to research so it goes faster, and it helps that the ground and air trees are pretty good all the way to top tier
@@tristandaries1129 I have most nations past the 3.0-4.0 mark but I can agree that they are more fun. Thanks for the advice.
@@tristandaries1129 Sweden rank 6-7 is almost objectively bad, and since it requires you to purchase EVERY jet from like tier 4 and onwards it's not really faster to grind than any other nation. Especially since there aren't reaaally any "good" grinders, J35XS is alright but if you dont get the XS and try going stock then good luck getting through tier 6 with ur conscience intact lmao
I’m about 380 hours in and I’m in tier 7 of the emerican air tree.i play mainly aviation.but to progress I do recommend sticking to one tree and grinding it out to the end.if you do bit by bit in All trees it will take forever to get past tier 5-6-7 on any of them in my opinion.
@@igorpeplinski5958 Thank you
can u do a mirage F1C or f1c-200 video and your thoughts on it
IS the mig-23MLD better than the ML?
Yep better overall performance though it’s only barley noticeable it still is better
Yeah the mld, gets spo 15 which is a decent rwr, basically the su 27 rwr and pulls more aoa so it has similar flight performance to the older model
The RWR alone makes it better
@@TallyPatka-dz2cz Okay thanks
Also you get wing slats which pull alot more but bleed speed a bit faster, no that much with the recent energy retention buff but more, basically going from a f4j to f4s, not much but noticable
The reason your feelibg like this is because you dont have any missles on, are at optimal fuel, try 20min and you would have the wings fully swept back and would take about 5 seconds before fully coming out. In a real fight this thing gets ruined by the f4s
The phantom was tested under the exact same parameters tho?
Why would you dogfight with the wings fully swept back? If you want higher AoA, 15 or 20 degrees is the best sweep, 10 is a great middle ground, and 0 and 5 degrees are best for ratefighting.
But the f4 is also even worst with missile weight and fuel weight. There are too many variables
don't you think there is some propaganda in there, because i am secretly you watched that one video about mig-23 in america. and they only had early variants mf and lower. and now as the mig-23,s have their real turn rate ingame imagine how much the f-4 is overperforming
Bro trying to cope cause be bought a f4
I buy it but i dont like it.have alot missile can work but problem is always 11.7 br f 14
Well, i'm watching this footage of you flying at 8k meters, and im just wondering where all the f-14s are in your matches, I fight them every single match lol. Where's all the pheonix missiles being shot at you which require you to ground skim?
Happens often. I usually just turn around and let my teammates go eat the initial launches
@@SeekerHead Ah lol
Whats tree other than france has the best dogfighting for top tier?
MiG23ML is the best dogfighter of the premiums at top tier
@@SeekerHead not premiums just top tier in general
List of best dogfighting top tier planes:
1. Gripen
2. F16A blk 10s
3. f16A blk 15/20s
4. F15As
5. f15Cs
@@SeekerHead Thanks
@@SeekerHead we forgetting about mirage 4000?
I bought the mig 23 half off last year and urs great but why the fuck did they nerf it. Soviet has to go against the op f14s and aim 7s.
Are you that guy from Jake's video
Are you that guy from Jake's video
@@JohnWT08 Are you that guy from Jake's video
erm what the sigma, its Jaek
When the fuc is the sales gonna come to playstation
😱 0:36 (i am famous 😎) No but seriously for me the biggest change (I played the MLD not ML) is for sure MTI, as search radar is just useless, one chaff and its gone, but MTI keeps track through all chaff (unless multipathing) and I honestly don't feel dogfight capabilities are too important for the mig23s I did win a dogfight against a F14 (with a stock MLD) so I think it's mostly the MTI change most people are angry about as again, dogfight heavily depends on the enemy's skill (mostly) and dogfight tend to happen rarely, or the dogfight rarely finishes without someone shooting a missile from far away hitting you mid dogfight. (Which I have done many times towards end game, seeing my teammate dogfight the last enemy plane you just fire a missile and they will very often be too occupied and won't see it)
5:03. Radars with CW guidance have chaff filters. Even if the radar appears to be locked onto chaff (post-launch), just leave it and wait to see if the missile hits, often times it will if the target isn’t close to notching
@@SeekerHead Have only seen that with MTI and have had a really hard time against chaff with search mode but I can try to shoot some radars in search and see what happens
@SeekerHead Okay so I did some testing with search mode, and I have to be honest and say my R24R performed way worse without MTI, I don't know if it were bad scenarios, but it lost track way easier to chaff, only times it were reliable were rear aspects from less than 2km. Only thing that was similar with MTI were headons, but I had big problems from side to 45 degree aspect launches, something I never have with MTI and that the missile has always hit with MTI not even reacting to chaff (just the visual radar lock) you have had anything similar happen or? All of this was with the mig23mld by the way🤔🤔🤔
@@mangosuppe8706 iam having a hard time using the 24rs with the ML too i use 24ts and 60s now but they eat flares like its nobody's business and only works against very unwary players so its not consistent ,,suffered my way to top tier ge arb and grb as a f2p xD thought the mig23ml experience will be better but sheesh any tips that you can share ? since you use the mld version
@wasntprepared well your main problem is your radar/rwr difference from MLD you have the spo10, I have the spo15 which means that you dont get launch/radar warnings and dont get much information from radar pings, what I usually do is mainly use r60ms first/offensively as every single radar missile except for the supers WILL BEAT YOUR MISSILE, they pull more, are slightly quicker and they usually have 4 or more. What I do is always follow my team at the start of the match usually a flank, if I get a launch warning I notch/counter it by going even further left making sure I dont enter a possibke furball, then I dive in later and try to launch r60ms at people side aspect, rarely head ons. Then I never take radar missile duels as at best you will trade. I uaually use the r24r on people that already are in a dogfight or is flying AWAY from me, as mti is a bitch in rear aspect (bitch in a good way ofc)
I think buying a premium is the problem. Everyone knows Gaijin nerfs them one month after sale, and you never get whats advertised, you end up bullying all the non premiums and it's basically either a speed bomber or a no skill free kill machine. If you want to buy normal planes, i think that's fine, but premiums are either garbage or unfair to everyone else playing or paying normally.
Gonna cop this bad boy tonight. Ive wanted it for a while and its finally on sale. Idc about the nerf i want it anyway lol.
i would love some guide on the mig23ml or something cuz i played only ground rb i now switched to air rb and its like easy to get kill or 2 but i know i can get more but dont know how to do it
it's not all bad tbh I can consistently get 2 kills with r24's alone and premium F-4S pilots are easy pickings with the R-60's. Yeah the flight performance is bad yet I still managed to win a 1v4 in it and had a fun little dogfight with an f-16 and won. ML or MLD either is alright but there is one thing this playerbase has lost ever since we got things like the F-100, a brain.
Can the mig 23 ml mix r24s
Yes
@@SeekerHead sweet thanks for reply
Peeps just gonna have to use there noggin and deal with it. Plus this jet is for sure on the top of the list for a premium buy I mean look at the J35XS not even having a single radar missile or even the J-7D or even the Kfir Canard for highest tier premiums in nations. Plus buying the Mig23 right now at half price ya cant complain for thirty something bucks snf getting 2500 GE and premium time for almost a month worth. The Mig-23ML is VERY usable still and these nerfs really arent the bad, I mean it could have been a lot worse.
this is the most annoying for sim
I want to grind some russian planes for ground battles, and while I have su25k + su22m3 with a talisman, I'm debating buying mig23, because, while nerfed, there's just no other way to speed things up. About nerfing premuims after the fact - it's a scam from their side imo. Sometimes nerfs are justified, for example when there are some global changes in the game, but not when it's like that... not for 70$
Mig23 still works. Its main strength was the ability to choose your fight because of its high speed and great flares, and they are still there. Radar and r24r do still work too
@@ВячеславФролов-д7я brother flares and chaffs dont work against f14,16,15
Could u do a video on the j-7D? If we should buy it or naw
is 2nd nerf after sale... (-30 deg slower turn ratio + r24r nerf)
AWESOME its useless at radar fighting now
In AirSB, you don't event get lock on RWR from phantoms using doppler, really mediocre plane now, because misiles don't have labels there
Really gotta take that ISIS tier flag off the fucking thing, actually really gross.
A Russian flag?
@@SeekerHead Russia is state sponsor of terrorism, that flag bombs schools and hospitals, civilian power infrastructure, it is a terrorist flag.
That’s your opinion from your point of view. I respect that, but not everybody would agree with you.
It’s in the game and is the flag of the jet that I’m flying.
I also play Israel. Many people would complain seeing an Israel flag as well. It’s in the flag of the jet I’m flying in the game.
They’re ultimately just symbols, I don’t find symbols to be something I can’t bare to see. If you’re offended by flags and symbols then maybe War Thunder isn’t for you. I can’t wait until you find out about the Japanese Rising Sun. The flag of an army that raped and tortured an entire country.
History is brutal and has many sides to it, you’ll encounter stuff you dont like about it all over the place and war thunder is filled with history
@@SeekerHead There's a reason we don't have the Nazi flag in the game, same reasons the Russian flag will be banned post war.
@@NullGuardianThat's it why it's called realistic battles , you panit your plane in swasitakas and fly around bombing stuff.
In a realistic scenario you will still most likely lose to the phantom, it has quite an advantage in the first few turns and will gain a significant positional advantage in those turns, meanwhile you have to sustain AOA dogfight it and bleed the F-4E's speed till it has lost, hoping that the F-4E's pilot doesnt know how to aim or use it's better position against you
I don't feel bad at all with these changes it, gaijin gave the mig 23 platform an insane ego boost per say when it came to performance because the mig 23 is one of the worst fighter jets they ever created next to the mig 25, MTI was the soviet version of PD and it was extremely inferior, i mained the german MLA and the fact i was able to 3v1 vs F 16s at 12.0 and won, secured 2 kills every match with R24Rs because no one was able to dodge them (not even hugging the ground) and be faster than the JA37, even though the mig 23 is 2 tons heavier, the the Viggen got their acceleration nerfed because back then, they were dunking on MLD players but the mig 23s kept their insane accelerations.
Those f16 and vigen players must have been shit unless you were head on and used the r24r but in my experience I think they nerfed the fuse delay on the r24r as it doesn't blow up sometimes in a head on even though it near misses physically hitting the guy
lol, what kind of idiot lose fight agains mig-23 in f-16
@@TallyPatka-dz2cznah the mig-23s were insanely broken flight performance wise for a while.
@@TallyPatka-dz2cz they weren't but they also weren't expecting me to sustain a two circle turn fight at 620 km which is the proper speed of the F16 to win said fight, when the other guy went vertical i followed and regain my speed while climbing and killed him, the other 2 became a boom and zoom for me, and the viggen comment is how fast it was on release, and that plane has the RM8B variant of their engine which is a 98% performance improvement, but like i said before, gaijin after the first week, reduced the acceleration by a solid 40% to what we have now, were an F5C, a plane with extremely weak engines, can keep up with you for a solid 30 seconds.
@APPLECAKEPIE3477 yeah nah those players playing like they were using early jets and didn't account for the mig 23ml insane thrust to weight ratio
I am not even good at using radar so IR it is. 😂