Part number list in description? I have the 70 351W heads and want to run beehive springs. I know combination is everything but nice to have a starting point.
I use the Comp Cams 26986 Beehive springs with 7° steel retainers and machined not stamped locks. The install height needs to be 1.850” which will require longer valves or cutting the spring pockets. If you want to go the valve route, just realize you’ll need to address pushrod length (longer) and possibly rocker studs. If the heads are not converted to screw in studs and guide plates, that is mandatory. Then you’ll need to check the contact pattern on the valve and be certain the rockers and pushrods are correct for the application. For valves, I recommend SI Valves Portflow valves for street drivers, or their Competition series for mostly performance used, all of which are good quality for the price point in the intended application.
That question requires multi-part answer. To physically bolt stock ‘69-76 351W to a 289/302 block you need a special set of head bolts and the correct intake gaskets. If the heads are modified for screw in studs and guide platesh, they will need adjustable rockers and hardened pushrods. If the heads have stock valves they are set up for a “rail” type rocker and if you use those, do not use a guide plate, two alignment sources in the valvetrain will create a bind.
@@TheGT350GarageYou can use special studs with 7/16" thread on one end to fit the block and 1/2" from there up. Or use 7/16" studs or bolts with special washers that index in the 1/2" bolt holes in the heads. Another option is to have a machine shop drill and tap the block for 1/2" bolts or studs. I would not use the rail rockers, considering you are putting the 351 heads on a 302 you must be building a performance oriented engine. At higher RPMs the rails will gaul the sides of the valve stems and eventually fail. I would pull the pressed in rocker studs out, get 0.250" to 0.300" milled off the rocker bosses to accomodate guide plates and screw in studs. For increased stability I would recommend 7/16" studs as the increased diameter makes them much stiffer. The later 351 heads are virtually identical to the 302 heads. Emissions crap and cost cutting. These heads have 1.78"/1.45" valves. Hopefully the 351 heads you reference are the earlier versions with the larger ports and 1.84"/1.54" valves. These heads can have the seats cut for Chev LS 2.00"/1.55" valves. The stems are 8mm, which is just a couple of thousandths larger than 5/16". The larger intake aids low lift flow with unshrouding techniques. These valves are fairly inexpensive and 20g to 30g lighter. Bronze sleeves or guides can be installed depending on the wear in the original guides. Readily available beehive springs can be used. Just need the corresponding retainers and locks. Also to be considered depending on your cam choice is Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers for the intake and 1.60 rockers for the exhaust. Of course valve to piston clearance using checking springs must be done after the cam has been checked for compliance with the cam card, degree the cam.
Walter, I am assuming that these heads are going on a 289 or 302 block. If yes, there are 2 minor things that need addressed. The water steam holes do not line up. I did a short magazine article in Car Craft on the mods needed around 1981 or 1982. If you look at 99% of the head gaskets they have 3 water steam holes in them...one in the center to work on 289-302 blocks and one on each side to work on 351W blocks (so it works on both sides of the engine). It is easy to modify for 289-302 blocks. Even if the heads are totally done and machined. Take the head gasket and line it up on the head and take a sharpie felt pen and mark the center hole on all 4 cylinders. Then center punch the marks and drill through the water passage using a 9/32" drill bit. You dont need a drill press, a hand drill will work fine. After drilling remove the little burr you just created with a countersink, deburring tool or sandpaper. The other modification is that all 351W use 1/2" head bolts and all 289-302 use 7/16" head bolts. Ford used to make a head bolt with a flange washer built on it for this application. Since bolts with built in a washer are probably hard to find, use a high quality (ARP) head bolt washer...do not use a hardware store washer.
I’ve always drilled the blocks rather than the heads, again using the head gasket as a template. Drill appropriately 3/8” deep, clean, then dip the drill bit in grease and finish the hole. Remove burrs and done. Ford no longer sells the stepped bolts but ARP does, and you can purchase inexpensive reducers that slip into the head bolt holes to use a stock bolt. TFS sells a much more robust alignment dowel for the block that I’d recommend also.
We shelved these heads at the last minute in favor of a set of Edelbrock E-Street 1.90 valve heads, I’m sure they would have run well, close to the same power, but it was a no-brainer to drop 50lbs and gain a little more power. The engine ended up making right in the ball park of 375-390hp, these heads would have still put it right at 350-365hp.
@@TheGT350Garage Thanks for the reply, 1hp per cubic inch is my goal. I'm with you, the aluminum heads are so tempting, especially the weight loss. I have the '70 D00E heads, and just want to see how I can do with iron heads. I'm already dropping about 140 lbs since I'm replacing an FE engine with a 351! What cam did you use? I didn't hear mention of it.
That engine was built with a Comp N271+ solid flat tappet grind. It runs excellent. If you’re interested in more information on the engine package, shoot me an email TheGT350Garage@gmail.com
They are professionally ported and flow about 210/155 @.500”. Not bad for a production iron head, but not on par with most good aftermarket heads. They are actually available if you’re looking for set.
I have done a pile of cylinder heads for Caterpillar and Detroit Diesel engines. Never lapped the valves. Just lift the valve off the seat and tap with a couple of fingers onto the seat. Use a finger on the stem to hold the valve off the seat. When you tap the valve onto the seat a witness mark will be left where the outer diameter of the seat contacts the valve. You are looking for position and an even witness mark around the valve. Never had a problem. We used a rubber cup and vacuum pump or solvent in the ports to verify seal.
@@TheGT350GarageYes, easy enough to remove with some solvent to break down the grease in it. You may be correct that some may use too much. I do prefer the tap to get a contact witness mark and vacuum test the valves assembled with a suction cup on the port faces. With a good witness mark and spring pressure holding the valves on the seats, vacuum should drop slowly. If it drops off right away there is a problem.
@@daledavies2334 the other side to this is, does the average guy have the ability to vacuum test the seal? Likely not. Lapping the valves is a tried and true method, with relatively little expense, and an extremely simple process requiring minimal skill or effort. Is it effective? Yes. Is there a little cleanup required after? Also Yes. Are there other ways to accomplish the same thing, absolutely, and I see nothing wrong with your method, it’s just not as practical or reliable for the once in a decade do-it-yourselfer. Thanks for the comments.
I think you have your math backwards, the gauge is meant to check height with a retainer sitting on top of the gauge ! If you have, say,1.950 down in the gauge, you ADD the distance from that point to the top of the gauge, say .125 thou. So actually you have , 1.950 plus .125 equals 2.075 . Hope this helps.
No, because the retainer is on a step recessed into the gauge, meaning it’s lower than the top or the gauge. You subtract the step from the total height, you don’t add to it.
These heads started out as a set of ‘70 351W castings with pressed in studs. They are ported by Slovers in SoCal, the rocker stud bosses are machined down, drilled, and tapped to make room for the guide plates a screw in studs. The valves are 1.90/1.60 +.100 Chevrolet valves. We were using 3/8” stud mount 1.72 ratio Scorpion roller rockers but any 3/8” stud mount rocker will work.
Great video Walter. Can’t wait for the short block video 😊
GREAT CLEAR AND CONCISE INFORMATION BROTHER😊❤LOVE YOUR VIDEOS AND YOUR PASSION FOR PERFORMANCE💪😎👍🙏😇🇺🇸PLEASE KEEP EM COMING😊❤
Yet another great video. You're the man!
Cool.
Part number list in description? I have the 70 351W heads and want to run beehive springs. I know combination is everything but nice to have a starting point.
I use the Comp Cams 26986 Beehive springs with 7° steel retainers and machined not stamped locks. The install height needs to be 1.850” which will require longer valves or cutting the spring pockets. If you want to go the valve route, just realize you’ll need to address pushrod length (longer) and possibly rocker studs. If the heads are not converted to screw in studs and guide plates, that is mandatory. Then you’ll need to check the contact pattern on the valve and be certain the rockers and pushrods are correct for the application. For valves, I recommend SI Valves Portflow valves for street drivers, or their Competition series for mostly performance used, all of which are good quality for the price point in the intended application.
Do ya have a 3 angle valve job on the intake valve?
Yes.
What combination of parts are required when installing 351W heads on an older 302 block? Studs, rockers, p/rods etc. Thanks
That question requires multi-part answer.
To physically bolt stock ‘69-76 351W to a 289/302 block you need a special set of head bolts and the correct intake gaskets.
If the heads are modified for screw in studs and guide platesh, they will need adjustable rockers and hardened pushrods. If the heads have stock valves they are set up for a “rail” type rocker and if you use those, do not use a guide plate, two alignment sources in the valvetrain will create a bind.
@@TheGT350GarageYou can use special studs with 7/16" thread on one end to fit the block and 1/2" from there up. Or use 7/16" studs or bolts with special washers that index in the 1/2" bolt holes in the heads. Another option is to have a machine shop drill and tap the block for 1/2" bolts or studs.
I would not use the rail rockers, considering you are putting the 351 heads on a 302 you must be building a performance oriented engine. At higher RPMs the rails will gaul the sides of the valve stems and eventually fail. I would pull the pressed in rocker studs out, get 0.250" to 0.300" milled off the rocker bosses to accomodate guide plates and screw in studs. For increased stability I would recommend 7/16" studs as the increased diameter makes them much stiffer.
The later 351 heads are virtually identical to the 302 heads. Emissions crap and cost cutting. These heads have 1.78"/1.45" valves.
Hopefully the 351 heads you reference are the earlier versions with the larger ports and 1.84"/1.54" valves. These heads can have the seats cut for Chev LS 2.00"/1.55" valves. The stems are 8mm, which is just a couple of thousandths larger than 5/16". The larger intake aids low lift flow with unshrouding techniques. These valves are fairly inexpensive and 20g to 30g lighter. Bronze sleeves or guides can be installed depending on the wear in the original guides. Readily available beehive springs can be used. Just need the corresponding retainers and locks. Also to be considered depending on your cam choice is Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers for the intake and 1.60 rockers for the exhaust.
Of course valve to piston clearance using checking springs must be done after the cam has been checked for compliance with the cam card, degree the cam.
Walter, I am assuming that these heads are going on a 289 or 302 block. If yes, there are 2 minor things that need addressed. The water steam holes do not line up. I did a short magazine article in Car Craft on the mods needed around 1981 or 1982. If you look at 99% of the head gaskets they have 3 water steam holes in them...one in the center to work on 289-302 blocks and one on each side to work on 351W blocks (so it works on both sides of the engine). It is easy to modify for 289-302 blocks. Even if the heads are totally done and machined. Take the head gasket and line it up on the head and take a sharpie felt pen and mark the center hole on all 4 cylinders. Then center punch the marks and drill through the water passage using a 9/32" drill bit. You dont need a drill press, a hand drill will work fine. After drilling remove the little burr you just created with a countersink, deburring tool or sandpaper. The other modification is that all 351W use 1/2" head bolts and all 289-302 use 7/16" head bolts. Ford used to make a head bolt with a flange washer built on it for this application. Since bolts with built in a washer are probably hard to find, use a high quality (ARP) head bolt washer...do not use a hardware store washer.
I’ve always drilled the blocks rather than the heads, again using the head gasket as a template. Drill appropriately 3/8” deep, clean, then dip the drill bit in grease and finish the hole. Remove burrs and done. Ford no longer sells the stepped bolts but ARP does, and you can purchase inexpensive reducers that slip into the head bolt holes to use a stock bolt. TFS sells a much more robust alignment dowel for the block that I’d recommend also.
Do you have a test run video for this build?
We shelved these heads at the last minute in favor of a set of Edelbrock E-Street 1.90 valve heads, I’m sure they would have run well, close to the same power, but it was a no-brainer to drop 50lbs and gain a little more power. The engine ended up making right in the ball park of 375-390hp, these heads would have still put it right at 350-365hp.
@@TheGT350Garage Thanks for the reply, 1hp per cubic inch is my goal. I'm with you, the aluminum heads are so tempting, especially the weight loss. I have the '70 D00E heads, and just want to see how I can do with iron heads. I'm already dropping about 140 lbs since I'm replacing an FE engine with a 351! What cam did you use? I didn't hear mention of it.
That engine was built with a Comp N271+ solid flat tappet grind. It runs excellent. If you’re interested in more information on the engine package, shoot me an email TheGT350Garage@gmail.com
is there a head porting video
Not for this pair. These were ported long ago and were given to this project fairly “used up”. I will have more porting videos on my TFS heads.
What do those heads flow? Are they the 1969 351W heads?
They are professionally ported and flow about 210/155 @.500”. Not bad for a production iron head, but not on par with most good aftermarket heads. They are actually available if you’re looking for set.
@@TheGT350Garagehow much $$?
@@trailerparkcryptoking5213 shoot an email to thegt350garage@gmail.com with your contact information and I’ll get you the details.
I have done a pile of cylinder heads for Caterpillar and Detroit Diesel engines. Never lapped the valves. Just lift the valve off the seat and tap with a couple of fingers onto the seat. Use a finger on the stem to hold the valve off the seat. When you tap the valve onto the seat a witness mark will be left where the outer diameter of the seat contacts the valve. You are looking for position and an even witness mark around the valve. Never had a problem.
We used a rubber cup and vacuum pump or solvent in the ports to verify seal.
lapping grit not too easy to remove either.
@radioguy1620 nothing a red shop rag with a little carburetor cleaner won’t handle. I think some guys use too much and create an unnecessary mess.
@@TheGT350GarageYes, easy enough to remove with some solvent to break down the grease in it. You may be correct that some may use too much.
I do prefer the tap to get a contact witness mark and vacuum test the valves assembled with a suction cup on the port faces. With a good witness mark and spring pressure holding the valves on the seats, vacuum should drop slowly. If it drops off right away there is a problem.
@@daledavies2334 the other side to this is, does the average guy have the ability to vacuum test the seal? Likely not. Lapping the valves is a tried and true method, with relatively little expense, and an extremely simple process requiring minimal skill or effort. Is it effective? Yes. Is there a little cleanup required after? Also Yes. Are there other ways to accomplish the same thing, absolutely, and I see nothing wrong with your method, it’s just not as practical or reliable for the once in a decade do-it-yourselfer. Thanks for the comments.
Lapping is nonsense.
I think you have your math backwards, the gauge is meant to check height with a retainer sitting on top of the gauge ! If you have, say,1.950 down in the gauge, you ADD the distance from that point to the top of the gauge, say .125 thou. So actually you have , 1.950 plus .125 equals 2.075 . Hope this helps.
No, because the retainer is on a step recessed into the gauge, meaning it’s lower than the top or the gauge. You subtract the step from the total height, you don’t add to it.
are these DO0E-C heads? if can I use the generic SBF rocker arms and springs combos like in a comp cam kit? thanks for the video!
These heads started out as a set of ‘70 351W castings with pressed in studs. They are ported by Slovers in SoCal, the rocker stud bosses are machined down, drilled, and tapped to make room for the guide plates a screw in studs. The valves are 1.90/1.60 +.100 Chevrolet valves. We were using 3/8” stud mount 1.72 ratio Scorpion roller rockers but any 3/8” stud mount rocker will work.