The problem with factory heads is not so much the size of the port but it's how they are ported, the short turn radius and the bowl area and blending the combustion chamber into the valve seat is also very crucial, we run factory cast E7 heads that i ported and modified myself and the car runs 10s on motor in the quarter mile and 9s on a 150 shot of nitrous, stock 302 short block with a duel plane intake, Anderson cam , we have run against many strokers with high dollar aftermarket heads and done very well, the car is on UA-cam if you'd like to check it out it's the green gangster with Adam grover, grover boys racing, good luck with your build you do have a very nice pair of cylinder heads, be sure to check your valve to piston clearance with the new afr heads
Thanks for your comments, it's great to hear how much success you've had with ported factory heads! I think that might be more of a testament to your skill in porting than it is to what most people could expect to achieve with their own set of factory heads. I was always relatively happy with what I was able to achieve with mine at the time, but always felt there was a limit to what I could do with my level of skill on a given head, hence the evolution from 289 to 351W, and finally AFR - seeking design to take me where my porting skill couldn't. I'll definitely check out the green gangster, thanks for watching!
I think a lot of us have been there ~ did what we could with the iron heads and eventually could afford the aluminium heads... thanks for the guided tour, really enjoying the build journey. 👍
Aluminum is a very good conductor of electricity and heat and the AFR heads have chunkier masses of aluminum which spread the heat faster and better throughout the head. Hence...the water jacket is not even needed. Congratulations and enjoy the power. If you drive your car a lot the lower octane gasoline will save you some money for the burgers and shakes. Enjoy and have fun!
Your video did a good job of showing exactly why I won't mess with factory SBF heads anymore. Just not worth it. Plus, there's so many choices for aftermarket heads now, they are relatively inexpensive, so it just doesn't make any sense to try to upgrade anything iron.
Yeah, back in the 90's when I first started trying to improve my stock heads, there were few aftermarket options and they were all really expensive, but now there are a bunch of great options out there. And even the low end of the aftermarket options offer massive improvements in valve geometry and flow over the stock heads, but don't cost much more than you would spend at the machine shop upgrading a factory head.
I don't know if you have ever ported heads or not but on your first 2 cast iron you can 14:39 work the combustion chamber on the sides of the valves where they are shrouded and it will help quite a bit. Try to make them look kinda similar to the afr chambers. I built a 390 20 yrs ago & I did everything I could as far as porting goes. Just stock 2.05 1.55 valves. I removed that little step up into the chamber ridge beside the seat, gasket match, bowls, whittled down the guides like sharpening a pencil - a bit, hogged the shit out of the exhaust bowl. I'm not a pro builder with a flow bench but that engine ran good. 72 F 250 2 wd auto. Headers into cherry bombs & exit right behind the doors. Isky cam 264 during 525 lift, Edelbrock 4v carb & hot ignition. Ran good. Fun driver
I'll bet it was fun! I thought about doing some work in the combustion chamber on those heads, but I felt that even with all of the port work I had done, it was never going to perform like an aftermarket head, so I drew the line there and left the chambers alone. It did the job for it's time, and I certainly had a lot of fun with it! Thanks for watching!
I have a 289 that I’m going to put a set of 165 afrs comp cam 280h magnum flat tappet cam good to know about that water port not needed I can’t wait to get my 66 mustang back on the street/strip
@@billsgarageyou revved the 289 to 8 grand with what kind of cam? I have a hyd roller retrofit and my engine builder told me to not go higher than 6500.
At 6500 rpm each valve opens and closes 54 times per SECOND Hyd roller lifters are heavy. Go as light weight everything that you can. Solid lifters Flat tappets Conical springs Titanium retainers Hi,rev pushrods Light steel rockers are stronger than aluminum. 7/16 rocker studs with Stud girdles light weight valves Don't forget the oil inside the pushrods. Remember at high rpm everything is flexing tremendously... And can bend or break JMO
Good video, but I have to say you left a lot of power on the table by going down to 10:1 compression ratio; @Ben Alameda Racing goes over compression ratio on pump gas in very detailed length on his channel in multiple videos. He explains how much power is left on the table and what fuel you can run with 12:1. He also covers drivability. Those 185cc heads are good. Comparing an AFR head from a head designed over 50 years ago just shows how crude things were, not much of a comparison. Good video though and I don't want to discourage your build, but there's more power if you want. I'm partial to Trickflow for SBF but a lot off ppl like the AFRs too.
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I could definitely have gone with higher compression and made more power, but this engine is going in my toy, not a race car. I'm definitely going to punish my tires and have some fun, but no need to punish my wallet every time I hit the gas pump. As long as I set my timing right, with this setup I can run 87 octane without a second thought.
Do you have flow/dyno or 1/4 mile performance data to compare the performance of the heads? Im working on a set of iron 351 heads now for a daily driver build I'll be happy to get 1 hp per cubic inch since everything will be mild
No, the 289 and 351W heads were done many years ago when I was active duty military, and I didn't have access to a flow bench or dyno. I did plenty of street racing with friends, and the car seemed faster with each evolution, but we were just in it for the fun, not the data. Thanks for watching!
I drilled that 2nd hole when I installed the 351W heads on a 302 block that had a water passage in that location. It wasn't necessary, just something I though I'd try. I don't know whether it made any difference because I didn't have an overheating problem on that engine previously. I didn't mention that in the video though, good eye for detail! Thanks for watching!
So you effectively built an expensive 9 to 1 engine? FYI using an aluminum head will cause a loss in power compared to the identical cast iron head. The fix is upping the compression by 1 point. Since aluminum heads are less prone to detonation this is easily done. A well designed combustion chamber with correctly ground cam will easily allow in excess of 11 to 1 compression on 93 octane pump gas.
You guessed at my compression ratio without knowing deck clearance, gasket crush, valve relief volume, and whether the heads are milled. My compression ratio is 10.2:1, which is totally fine for a street engine, and with a proper timing curve will allow me to make plenty of power on 87 octane fuel. Why on Earth would I want to saddle myself with 93 octane fuel to run a non-supercharged toy? Sure, I could bump the compression ratio up to 12:1 and make 30 more horsepower at 6,000 rpm, but that's not going to get me to the ice cream stand any faster, it's just going to make it so that I can't afford ice cream. The best compression ratio is the one that matches the car and its intended use.
You were the one that claimed 10 to 1. 10.2 same same. Did you say you were going to run 87 octane in this video? If so I missed it. You can do what ever you want I was just commenting because to me you made it sound like 10 to 1 is the optimal compression for a aluminum headed engine on pump gas. I'm new to your channel and have not seen all the videos on this build so I don't have all the facts at this point. I just thought your viewers needed to know much higher compression is easily done on pump gas with aluminum heads and a good camshaft that keeps dynamic compression in check. IMO a 9 to 1 effective compression ratio engine leaves a lot of potential untapped.
I remember seeing 105 at the pump one time when I was in the suburbs north of Detroit. I'm in Florida, and the highest we see at the pump in my area is 97. Thanks for watching!
The problem with factory heads is not so much the size of the port but it's how they are ported, the short turn radius and the bowl area and blending the combustion chamber into the valve seat is also very crucial, we run factory cast E7 heads that i ported and modified myself and the car runs 10s on motor in the quarter mile and 9s on a 150 shot of nitrous, stock 302 short block with a duel plane intake, Anderson cam , we have run against many strokers with high dollar aftermarket heads and done very well, the car is on UA-cam if you'd like to check it out it's the green gangster with Adam grover, grover boys racing, good luck with your build you do have a very nice pair of cylinder heads, be sure to check your valve to piston clearance with the new afr heads
Thanks for your comments, it's great to hear how much success you've had with ported factory heads! I think that might be more of a testament to your skill in porting than it is to what most people could expect to achieve with their own set of factory heads. I was always relatively happy with what I was able to achieve with mine at the time, but always felt there was a limit to what I could do with my level of skill on a given head, hence the evolution from 289 to 351W, and finally AFR - seeking design to take me where my porting skill couldn't. I'll definitely check out the green gangster, thanks for watching!
Wonder if the promaxx sbf aluminum heads have the water passage….
Yes Terry. Itza ripper👍👍👍
I think a lot of us have been there ~ did what we could with the iron heads and eventually could afford the aluminium heads...
thanks for the guided tour, really enjoying the build journey. 👍
Thanks for watching!
Aluminum is a very good conductor of electricity and heat and the AFR heads have chunkier masses of aluminum which spread the heat faster and better throughout the head. Hence...the water jacket is not even needed. Congratulations and enjoy the power. If you drive your car a lot the lower octane gasoline will save you some money for the burgers and shakes. Enjoy and have fun!
Thanks for your comments, I'm definitely looking forward to paying less for gas so that I can buy more tires to roast on my way to the burger stand!
Your video did a good job of showing exactly why I won't mess with factory SBF heads anymore. Just not worth it. Plus, there's so many choices for aftermarket heads now, they are relatively inexpensive, so it just doesn't make any sense to try to upgrade anything iron.
Yeah, back in the 90's when I first started trying to improve my stock heads, there were few aftermarket options and they were all really expensive, but now there are a bunch of great options out there. And even the low end of the aftermarket options offer massive improvements in valve geometry and flow over the stock heads, but don't cost much more than you would spend at the machine shop upgrading a factory head.
Explorer heads are the cheap route today. About the same performance as the fat sparkplug 351W head.
Thanks Bill, your information is very informative and interesting. Well done and please keep the videos coming 😎
Thanks for watching!
I don't know if you have ever ported heads or not but on your first 2 cast iron you can 14:39 work the combustion chamber on the sides of the valves where they are shrouded and it will help quite a bit. Try to make them look kinda similar to the afr chambers. I built a 390 20 yrs ago & I did everything I could as far as porting goes. Just stock 2.05 1.55 valves. I removed that little step up into the chamber ridge beside the seat, gasket match, bowls, whittled down the guides like sharpening a pencil - a bit, hogged the shit out of the exhaust bowl. I'm not a pro builder with a flow bench but that engine ran good. 72 F 250 2 wd auto. Headers into cherry bombs & exit right behind the doors. Isky cam 264 during 525 lift, Edelbrock 4v carb & hot ignition. Ran good. Fun driver
I'll bet it was fun! I thought about doing some work in the combustion chamber on those heads, but I felt that even with all of the port work I had done, it was never going to perform like an aftermarket head, so I drew the line there and left the chambers alone. It did the job for it's time, and I certainly had a lot of fun with it! Thanks for watching!
BTW, the water holes in the head are to relieve any steam or air lock.
Yeah, I've heard a lot of people refer to them as "steam holes." Thanks for watching!
I have a 289 that I’m going to put a set of 165 afrs comp cam 280h magnum flat tappet cam good to know about that water port not needed I can’t wait to get my 66 mustang back on the street/strip
Good luck with your Mustang, and thanks for watching!
Thank you you have helped a ton
@@billsgarageyou revved the 289 to 8 grand with what kind of cam? I have a hyd roller retrofit and my engine builder told me to not go higher than 6500.
At 6500 rpm each valve opens and closes 54 times per SECOND
Hyd roller lifters are heavy.
Go as light weight everything that you can.
Solid lifters
Flat tappets
Conical springs
Titanium retainers
Hi,rev pushrods
Light steel rockers are stronger than aluminum.
7/16 rocker studs with Stud girdles
light weight valves
Don't forget the oil inside the pushrods.
Remember at high rpm everything is flexing tremendously... And can bend or break
JMO
Good video, but I have to say you left a lot of power on the table by going down to 10:1 compression ratio; @Ben Alameda Racing goes over compression ratio on pump gas in very detailed length on his channel in multiple videos. He explains how much power is left on the table and what fuel you can run with 12:1. He also covers drivability. Those 185cc heads are good. Comparing an AFR head from a head designed over 50 years ago just shows how crude things were, not much of a comparison. Good video though and I don't want to discourage your build, but there's more power if you want. I'm partial to Trickflow for SBF but a lot off ppl like the AFRs too.
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I could definitely have gone with higher compression and made more power, but this engine is going in my toy, not a race car. I'm definitely going to punish my tires and have some fun, but no need to punish my wallet every time I hit the gas pump. As long as I set my timing right, with this setup I can run 87 octane without a second thought.
Do you have flow/dyno or 1/4 mile performance data to compare the performance of the heads? Im working on a set of iron 351 heads now for a daily driver build I'll be happy to get 1 hp per cubic inch since everything will be mild
No, the 289 and 351W heads were done many years ago when I was active duty military, and I didn't have access to a flow bench or dyno. I did plenty of street racing with friends, and the car seemed faster with each evolution, but we were just in it for the fun, not the data. Thanks for watching!
@@billsgarage cool, wasn't sure if you had been to the strip with it. 1/4 mile times Tell a lot Thanks for your service, I am retired Navy myself
What brand of lifters do you recomend? Ive used alot of aftermarket lifters which usually fail after 25000 miles and destroy my engines.
I've been running Comp Cams lifters for years with no problems. Some of that is luck, I've heard good and bad, but it's worked for me.
What about that second hole 1" above the one you created to match the block?
I drilled that 2nd hole when I installed the 351W heads on a 302 block that had a water passage in that location. It wasn't necessary, just something I though I'd try. I don't know whether it made any difference because I didn't have an overheating problem on that engine previously. I didn't mention that in the video though, good eye for detail! Thanks for watching!
So you effectively built an expensive 9 to 1 engine? FYI using an aluminum head will cause a loss in power compared to the identical cast iron head. The fix is upping the compression by 1 point. Since aluminum heads are less prone to detonation this is easily done. A well designed combustion chamber with correctly ground cam will easily allow in excess of 11 to 1 compression on 93 octane pump gas.
You guessed at my compression ratio without knowing deck clearance, gasket crush, valve relief volume, and whether the heads are milled. My compression ratio is 10.2:1, which is totally fine for a street engine, and with a proper timing curve will allow me to make plenty of power on 87 octane fuel. Why on Earth would I want to saddle myself with 93 octane fuel to run a non-supercharged toy? Sure, I could bump the compression ratio up to 12:1 and make 30 more horsepower at 6,000 rpm, but that's not going to get me to the ice cream stand any faster, it's just going to make it so that I can't afford ice cream. The best compression ratio is the one that matches the car and its intended use.
You were the one that claimed 10 to 1. 10.2 same same. Did you say you were going to run 87 octane in this video? If so I missed it. You can do what ever you want I was just commenting because to me you made it sound like 10 to 1 is the optimal compression for a aluminum headed engine on pump gas. I'm new to your channel and have not seen all the videos on this build so I don't have all the facts at this point. I just thought your viewers needed to know much higher compression is easily done on pump gas with aluminum heads and a good camshaft that keeps dynamic compression in check. IMO a 9 to 1 effective compression ratio engine leaves a lot of potential untapped.
your pump gas can be as high 105 octane. e85 or propane are 105. when e100 is 129! octane.
I remember seeing 105 at the pump one time when I was in the suburbs north of Detroit. I'm in Florida, and the highest we see at the pump in my area is 97. Thanks for watching!