In Tolkien's universe, wisdom and knowledge, as well as loyalty and compassion, were often considered more powerful than deception, cruelty and even sheer strength. Gandalf had wisdom of the greatest magnitude, and even actual foresight of things to come. His virtue and loyalty earned him help when he needed it from all corners of the world (Rohan, Lothlorian, Rivendell, as well as Radagast, Beorn, Treebeard, and the great eagles). He was friends with, and a mentor to, future kings (Thorin and Aragorn). He fought off all 9 Nazgul for a night, and killed Durin's Bane. He set into motion, or had a direct hand, in every major event in the War of the Rings, and at the end he watched Sauron's empire crumble first hand. I know Gandalf COULD defeat Sauron because he DID defeat Sauron.
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 You obviously missed his point. Sauron was defeated by Huan, Luthien, Gil Galad & Elendil. He has surrendered to Eonwe and Ar Pharazon. He also lost a small battle to the white council. His grand weapon was destroyed by a halfling. If you were to ask if any of these beings are more powerful than Sauron, the answer would be know. But like the OP said, virtue, wisdom, compassion, these traits and those similar make an individual more powerful than sheer strength.
@@AltruistickAsk I never missed the point. I never denied his claims but what he says is different than personal power. Melkor was the mightiest of all beings but also the least powerful one ( according to the logic OP suggested at least ) He was killed by Elendil and Gil Galad after he was weakened by the destruction of Numenor Said Luthien could move Morgoth to desire, Mandos to pity and all beings in Angband to sleep. Huan was protected by fate but he fled before Sauron before Luthien intervened who also fainted before Sauron Eonwe admitted that he didn’t have authority to forgive Sauron and Sauron’s decision to bow before him was just try to evade facing Valar themselves and getting out of the situation faster Tolkien said in his letters that Ar-Pharazon could capture Sauron’s slaves not him for he was too powerful to be captured that way. His decision to surrender was cunning and not a necessity on an individual level Sauron didnt fight with White Council in the books Hobbits that were aided by Iluvatar himself yes
I have to agree with Og, all the talk of power in other ways might be true in some ways but this is about true power, what would happen if 2 entities were facing each other in a battle to the death. Your average philosopher or Scientist is probably wiser than your average MMA fighter and night also be one of the most compasionate people you could ever meet but I know who would still be standing after 3 minutes in the cage.
You have to add Carcaroth, who slew both Huan and Beren. If Huan can beat Sauron…I would also add Eonwe, whom Sauron surrendered to following Motgoth’s demise. Bomnadil is clearly an earthly incarnation of Eru himself.
@ interesting thought. I have not held to the belief of ‘direct equivalencies’ between light/dark. Starting at the top, there’s only one Melkor to all of the Valar/Valier. Bombadil is strangely beyond or outside the power of the other Powers, as shown by his interactions with the Ring. On a less ‘credible’ note, if I were Eru I’d want to have a non-interfering presence on Arda….though Bonbadil’s role in saving the hobbits could be called interference. Elrond stated that Bombadil might fall ‘Last as he was First’….certainly greater thanUngoliant and more descriptive of an Eru-like presence.
Good Video, I thoroughly enjoyed it and I agree with your picks. With one exception, or more accurately, one addition mentioned at the end. There were a few others who might have come close, such as Finrod who came close to defeating Sauron in a duel of Songs of Power. Perhaps on another day and in different circumstances .........? Who knows? Perhaps the 5 Wizards or Istari, Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, Alatar & Palandro all acting together may have been able to defeat Sauron. After all, that's what they were sent to Middle Earth to do. Perhaps the one real ommission from the list is Eonwe the Maia. Mightiest of all beings in arms in Arda. Compared to Eonwe, Sauron would have been second best.
The Istari were all Maia like Sauron, however were only able to enter middle earth with a fraction of their true power. Eonwe’ was the mightiest of the Maia and hands down would have had Sauron’s measure.
@ Eonwe was not said to be the mightiest of the Maiar. Besides, Maiar have ranks within them. Tolkien says that Sauron belong to a “far higher” order compared to the Istari
I came here to challenge the title...But find mostly, that you have made your point even though many never stood against Sauron. Problem is most didn't exist in the time Sauron stood as dark lord
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 Tolkien often has another meaning when explaining someone's "might." Sauron's might came with his knowledge, and ability, similar to Feanor. While Gothmog, is more similar to Fingolfin. Who's might is weighed more in power and loyalty.
@@AltruistickAsk Tolkien says that Sauron was a greater spirit compared to Balrogs. I didn’t make any comparison with their specialization. Thing is simple, Gothmog is less dangerous and less powerful than Sauron and one that is more easily dealed. He also never showed any good combat feats despite the fact that this was the best thing he could do
That's a common trope in mythology: the first beings are always the most powerful, and the current threat to the world is just a shadow compared to the movers of the universe from ancient times.
I like this breakdown. It shows the depth and richness of Tolkien's realm. It wasn't about pitting the biggest baddie against the world. It shows that Sauron is a schemer with long term plans.
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 Well Sauron wasnt really that crazy good of a 1v1 warrior despite being physically strong....His main role was being a Master Manipulator, Master of Illusions and great Deceiver aswell as a skilled tactician and strategist. While Gothmog was far superior to Sauron in pure 1v1 battle.. Sauron as someone else described it perfectly "being the one who bred the orcs, organizes the armies, plans the strategies, and runs the logistics of keeping these massive armies going. He is the one who ultimately runs the show when Melkor is out and about. If the Balrogs are the weapons of Melkor, Sauron is the brains of the operation."
@ Sauron was not a warrior he was a sorcerer and just because he is a manipulator doesn’t mean that he was bad at fighting Gothmog never showed any feats that puts him above Sauron in terms of fighting. Give me an example and I will debunk it
Slight issue. Some of the Tom Bombadil photos aren't accurate. He's described as being much more colorfully dressed and for some reason he looks a lot more dour than he should. You should tell whatever photographer took those shots. I get the snarky feeling that they need to read the text more carefully. Next thing you know, they'll be taking photos of orcs nursing their babies. Great video as always.
The Valar are considered in Tolkien’s work they are lesser gods lower case god and and are technically his children, which makes them gods themselves the valor just emanations of him.
@ yes they are even by men and elves they are call as such only the maiar are considered angels you must remember Tolkien’s work is based of Christianity more specifically some gnostic parts of Christianity plus even though internet says they are gods Yes, the Valar are gods in J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings the Answer from google No, the Maiar are not gods in The Lord of the Rings, googles Ai answer for Maiar In Middle-earth, the individual Valar were known by other names in other languages. For example in Sindarin, Varda was called Elbereth. Men knew them by many other names, and sometimes referred to them as "gods"
I would have included Eonwe, standard bearer of the Valar. He was of the same order as Sauron, Maiar, and was the greatest in arms in all of Middle-Earth, leading the Armies of the Valar in the War of Wrath. Sauron asked pardon from him but Eonwe did not have the authority to pardon him and urged him to go to Valinor. Melian also includes special mention as someone who held back Morgoth and Sauron during the Wars of the Silmaril for a time.
I love it your video! My favourites from these characters are Morgoth Bauglir & Ancalagon the Black. Gothmog was certainly superior to Sauron in raw, physical battle prowess but Sauron eclipsed him in cunning & the powers of magic/sorcery - I’ll call that one a draw.
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 Yes, I think that you are right. However, collectively, the Balrogs were a force to be reckoned with. As I recall even the greatest of the great, Morgoth, was terrified of Ungolient when she was pissed. The Balrogs, on the other hand, were able to see Ungolient off.
We have to talk about "which version of Sauron" to make the comparison: - About Huan: Sauron faced a being immune to magic; with a prophecy dictating his destiny; in addition to the remnants of magic from Lúthien's cloak (which made Morgoth sleep on his throne); - About Ancalagon: in terms of destruction, Ancalagon must really be very terrible to face. It took Eärendil and the Silmaril (containing the light of the Holy Spirit) to defeat him; - About the Balrogs: Tolkien says that Sauron was on a spiritual level above the Balrogs. Sauron could do things that, apparently, the Balrogs were not capable of: Earthquakes; control the weather/storms; cause illness; make Tsunamis (History of Middle Earth version); break your enemies' spells; control a Volcano, etc. - Fëanor is the greatest of Ilúvatar's sons in terms of Inventiveness, intelligence (not to be confused with wisdom) and potential to contribute to the history of Arda (Silmarils, Palantir). But, in 1 on 1 combat. I think Sauron takes this one. Even weakened after the Fall of Númenor, Sauron managed to fight his way through the lines of the Last Alliance and walked 30 miles from Barad-dûr to Mount Doom. He must have killed hundreds or even thousands of Elves and Númenóreans. He faced Elrond, Cirdan, Isildur, Elendil and Gil-galad. - Fingolfin: I really don't know. Sauron could defeat him only if he used some powerful magic. Maybe, Songs of Power. - Ungoliant: I think that the Ungoliant, after sucking the lights from the trees, and who managed to escape from Tulkas and Oromë (with their hunters) had an absurd potential even for Sauron. - Of the Valar: Well, it's the Valar. - Morgoth: Tolkien says that Sauron of the Second Age was more powerful than Morgoth at the end of the First Age. Tom Bombadi: In the Council of Elrond it is said that Sauron would defeat Bombadil eventually. In the History of Middle Earth Version, Tom would be defeated by Sauron personally. Perhaps it remained unclear how much the One Ring made a difference to Sauron. I would have had him face (and defeat) Ossë or Eonwë in Númenor. One helped create the Island, and the other is a patron who taught Númenor's Fathers. This would show that the same Sauron, who surrendered to Eonwë in the First Age, was more powerful than the Herald of Manwë in the Second Age (Sauron's peak). This could be The "event". It would be the event that definitively convinced Númenor that Morgoth would protect the Númenóreans in their invasion of Valinor.
Sauron at his strongest was more powerful than morgoth at his weakest.That is what Tolkien was saying. Melkor at his peak was in another league than Sauron
@@fpalitangYes and it is stated that Sauron was not more powerful at all, he was simply more effective than Melkor at the end of the first age. Raw might and effectiveness are very different.
Sauron kinda learn from morgoth mistakes, who became weaker as time passed by, because he tainted as much as possible with his power and malice, but also giving up a little bit of his being every time, in the opposite Sauron gathered all he was on the Ring. Yet morgoth will always remain on middle earth as the root of all evil.
I honestly disagree with alot of this list. Comparisons in Tolkiens universe is tough because its based around soft magic. That being said, in terms of overall combined power and ignoring any plot armor (eg Huan, elves), Saurons might, influence, and power far exceed any elf, maiar (balrogs or other uncorrupted maiar) or creature (dragon). The only exception in my opinion is Ungoliant and Bombadil. I should also add that in combat, Sauron would lose to most dragons. Sauron after all was not known for his combat prowess though he has demonstrated some impressive feats.
@@LilDavyy-l6c Lotr magic is not subtle by any means. Its effects are pretty spectacular Why do you think that a dragon would be able to defeat Sauron? Tolkien himself says that Sauron was a being too terrible to face directly by even the most powerful beings in combat in Middle Earth such as Gandalf.
@@soup_doctor Sauron was more powerful than Huan, Ancalagon and Gothmog. Tolkien says that Sauron was Melkors mightiest servant. Ungoliant is close but she is also lesser to him given that Melian defeated Ungoliant herself who is more or less equal to Sauron
I don’t know. Most I support but I can’t agree with all. Fairly certain that Tolkien himself concluded that because Morgoth had disseminated his power across all of Arda (Morgoth’s Ring) that his power was significantly diminished, so that Sauron with his Ring would likely triumph over him. And therefore, just because someone could go toe-to-toe with Melkor, does not mean they could beat Sauron at full strength. I certainly don’t believe that Feanor could do so. And it is clearly stated that should Sauron triumph in the War of the Ring, though he may be the last to fall as he was the first to exist, that Tom Bombadil would ultimately fall. I agree that Ungoliant was (having sucked the two trees dry) at that point more powerful than Morgoth, but that is a singular moment in time, and she was not necessarily more powerful than him as a rule, so I would question assuming that she was more powerful than Sauron with his ring.
Luthien sang Sauron to sleep. And her mom, Melian, was probably at least Sauron's equal as a Maia. Perhaps even stronger than him. Her power kept Morgoth out of one of the elf kingdoms.
@@arten Luthien sang Sauron to a “fleeting drowsiness” and Sauron knocked her over with his mere presence. Melian and Sauron matched each other in Taur-nu-fuin
i kind of doubt that Gothmog could kill Sauron...or well he could BUT Gothmog never killed any of the famous heros on his own, he always had some other balrog to help him and was slain by one elf.
the vid. does say "middle earth" after all and Eru never entered Ea much less Arda (where middle earth was located). everyone on the list spent at least some time in middle earth.
No one brought up Gil-Galad and Elendil. Even if you throw in Elrond, Cirdan (not sure what they did exactly)and Isildur (the corpse looter) that isn't a lot of warriors against a minor god. And Sauron had the ring at that time. Sauron is extremely dangerous but he isn't invincible. Even at the end of the 3rd age you could probably get enough good elves and men, maybe even some dwarves, to take down Sauron. Of course he is diminished without the ring so Sauron's real power is that no one can get to him. Probably because he doesn't have a great record at 1 v 1.
You could argue Sauron was much more powerful than Morgoth with the rings. That's the whole point of the rings, they gave him unfathomable power and he was able to amplify Morgoth's powers.
May be at the end when morgoth had used a lot of his power, but the ring had all sauron's power. Without it, he wasn't much galadrial banished him without the ring. Luthian would take sauron she put morgoth to sleep. Also had sauron snoozing.
Sauron with the ring and Sauron before the rings were created are not the same. The One Ring gave him giant power which is hard to compare with anyone in the list. Also Morgoth is tough to compare with Sauron, because Sauron accumulated his force into the ring, which made him stronger and stronger. Morgoth was giving his power away to corrupt everything around him. Each creature "created" in that way took away some part of Morgoth's power. So in 1 vs 1 combat Sauron from begining of 1st age wouldn't have any chances agains Morgoth from that time. But "late" Morgoth vs Sauron with Ring?
Saurons’ power wqs of course intrinsically bound to the ring, and therefore you’d have to question at what part of his existence could he be taken down by the said selections.. At the height of his power with the One Ring he must have at least rivalled Gothmog and Ecthellion. The greatest omission here would have to be Ingwe’ (even though he never returned to Middle Earth). As King of the Vanyar and having dwelt in Valinor for all of the ages we would have far surpassed all other elves and rivalled the mightiest of the Maia (including all Balrogs). Having the Valar and Melkor in the selections is pointless really as they were infinitely more powerful than lesser beings. Good topic though
@ Hypotesises becomes relevant when there are no definitive statements that can determine the outcome of the argument. In that case, there are MANY statements that shows Sauron’s superiority over Gothmog hence this becomes not a hypothesis but a fact. “But at length, after the fall of Fingolfin, Sauron, greatest and most terrible of the servants of Morgoth, who in the Sindarin tongue was named Gorthaur, came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower upon Tol Sirion…” Silmarillion “Morgoth corrupted many spirits some great as Sauron and less so as the Balrogs, least would have been primitive orcs” History of Middle Earth Morgoths Ring
@@matthewdavis8435 Galadriel was said to be “equal in endowment of Feanor” ( HoME ) and that’s what Tolkien says would happen if Third Age Sauron and Galadriel fought “Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him - being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form.In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power.” Letter 246 Feanor was more powerful than Ingwe. So Sauron, even in the Third Age is more powerful than all the elves that have ever existed “For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him.” Silmarillion
A dragon the size of a small mountain would clearly have greater destructive output just with its fire breath than anything Sauron could do by his own strength. But Morgoth probably wouldn't have created something like that without installing loopholes to dominate its mind and keep it under control. His right hand Maiar presumably has access to those same levers to ensure obedience, as he did for the orcs and trolls.
@@xcfjdyrkdtulkgfilhu Ancalagon wasn’t the size of a mountain and Sauron doesn’t need to have just as much fire breathing power in order to be as deadly as him. His fear aura was capable of draining entire lands
No Gothmog could not defeat Sauron. Sauron was innately powerful. No, both Exthelion and Gothmog, though better warriors, would lose. Now, has for Feanor was more creative, but again, his power was less. You have done a good list, but you are mixing combat skills with innate power. I understand that Valar, Ungoliant, and Ancalagon are obviously more powerful. The rest are debatable best especially the Elves. Now, I'd also add that Tom Bombadil is has powerful or in another way different type of power it doesn't equate to hind defeating Daruin. Also Glorfindel said at the council of Elrind that if all feel and Tom was left.on his own to face Sauron, he would be alst to fall. I agree in some ways level.playing field just one on one fight some of thsie entire d especially Fingolfin stand a chance.ithwrwise nit really. You also missed Eonwe, who was Manwes Chief General. With arms, he was unbeatable ( Tulka was far stronger, and Orome had a greater anger and innate power), but with weapons, he beats anyone. I'd add him to your list in a heartbeat.
@@derekmiller6091 Your argument for this? Orcs doesn’t matter when higher beings are at play. It is said that no matter how many armies Sauron threw at Lothlorien it would fail expect if he came in person. Similar is the situation between Sauron and Bombadil
In fact, Luthien was too much for Sauron, and even Melkor. I guess almost all HIGH Elves would have beaten Sauron, a Maia, Glorfindel, for sure, even Maedhros and possibly Maglor. Thingol, for sure, also Finarfin and the list would go on and on.
@@pabloberlin9127 Tolkien says that Sauron would be able to defeat Glorfindell even in the Third Age What makes you think that “all the high elves” could defeat Sauron when none of them could? Luthien literally PASSED IN FEAR to the ground after seeing Sauron.
Bro even a dark lord what are you talking about sauron is just a Maiar like huan the hound of orome also must be a vala cause he is the godly hound of the valar he can talk and has imense power so i think he is also one of the ainur that makes him at least a match to sauron.
Bombadil is awesome and these divine beings are derived from both Greek and Nordic mythology. Just so addictive to watch Rings of Power and has made me want to read the Silmarilion book
Bro in combat gothmog the lord of the balrogs was way stronger than sauron and also huan the hound of tha valar even defeated sauron so what are you talking about fingolfin was the strongest elfe ever and way more powerful than gil galad who defeated sauron together with elendil witch was weaker than gil galad i mean yea they both died but saurons body also was useless and isildur could go to him and cut of the ring witch held his broken body alife ☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻
@@liamschmolzer9978 Elendil and Gil Galad defeated Sauron while he was at his weakest Huan fled before Sauron before Luthien intervened Huan would defeat Gothmog as well This video speaks about power not about combat potency. Gothmog has zero impressive individual feats.
Bear in mind, Sauron was a serial loser. Against Huan. In the War of Wrath. Against Numenor. Against the Last Alliance. Against the White Council. Against Frodo, Sam and Smeagol. His principal advantages were in guile, and immortality in a world being abandoned by the Eldar and in which Men were becoming just men. He's not that much of a villain, in that light.
@@damianmurphy6133 All of that had explanations. He also had many win record to the likes of Saruman, Finrod, Celebrimbor, Rhovanion, Tol Sirion, Eregion etc
What about farmer Maggot didn't he tell the Nazgul to, "sod off?"🤣
In Tolkien's universe, wisdom and knowledge, as well as loyalty and compassion, were often considered more powerful than deception, cruelty and even sheer strength. Gandalf had wisdom of the greatest magnitude, and even actual foresight of things to come. His virtue and loyalty earned him help when he needed it from all corners of the world (Rohan, Lothlorian, Rivendell, as well as Radagast, Beorn, Treebeard, and the great eagles). He was friends with, and a mentor to, future kings (Thorin and Aragorn). He fought off all 9 Nazgul for a night, and killed Durin's Bane. He set into motion, or had a direct hand, in every major event in the War of the Rings, and at the end he watched Sauron's empire crumble first hand. I know Gandalf COULD defeat Sauron because he DID defeat Sauron.
@@steveking9081 Sauron was more powerful than him on an individual level.
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 You obviously missed his point. Sauron was defeated by Huan, Luthien, Gil Galad & Elendil. He has surrendered to Eonwe and Ar Pharazon. He also lost a small battle to the white council. His grand weapon was destroyed by a halfling. If you were to ask if any of these beings are more powerful than Sauron, the answer would be know. But like the OP said, virtue, wisdom, compassion, these traits and those similar make an individual more powerful than sheer strength.
@@AltruistickAsk I never missed the point. I never denied his claims but what he says is different than personal power. Melkor was the mightiest of all beings but also the least powerful one ( according to the logic OP suggested at least )
He was killed by Elendil and Gil Galad after he was weakened by the destruction of Numenor
Said Luthien could move Morgoth to desire, Mandos to pity and all beings in Angband to sleep. Huan was protected by fate but he fled before Sauron before Luthien intervened who also fainted before Sauron
Eonwe admitted that he didn’t have authority to forgive Sauron and Sauron’s decision to bow before him was just try to evade facing Valar themselves and getting out of the situation faster
Tolkien said in his letters that Ar-Pharazon could capture Sauron’s slaves not him for he was too powerful to be captured that way. His decision to surrender was cunning and not a necessity on an individual level
Sauron didnt fight with White Council in the books
Hobbits that were aided by Iluvatar himself yes
I have to agree with Og, all the talk of power in other ways might be true in some ways but this is about true power, what would happen if 2 entities were facing each other in a battle to the death. Your average philosopher or Scientist is probably wiser than your average MMA fighter and night also be one of the most compasionate people you could ever meet but I know who would still be standing after 3 minutes in the cage.
100%. It is extremely unhealthy to oppose the aims of Gandalf.
People, including the op, need to remember that the Valar did not live in Middle Earth.
They did come to middle earth in the War of Wrath
One of them did.
@dandiehm8414 true!
You have to add Carcaroth, who slew both Huan and Beren. If Huan can beat Sauron…I would also add Eonwe, whom Sauron surrendered to following Motgoth’s demise. Bomnadil is clearly an earthly incarnation of Eru himself.
Tolkien said Bombadil isn't Eru, he's prolly just another Maiar
New theory: Bombadil is the counterpart/opposite to Ungoliant.
@ interesting thought. I have not held to the belief of ‘direct equivalencies’ between light/dark. Starting at the top, there’s only one Melkor to all of the Valar/Valier. Bombadil is strangely beyond or outside the power of the other Powers, as shown by his interactions with the Ring. On a less ‘credible’ note, if I were Eru I’d want to have a non-interfering presence on Arda….though Bonbadil’s role in saving the hobbits could be called interference. Elrond stated that Bombadil might fall ‘Last as he was First’….certainly greater thanUngoliant and more descriptive of an Eru-like presence.
It’s Huan not Hanan. And the section on Bombadil is flat out wrong. Gandalf said after all else fell, Tom’s domain would fall to Sauron as well.
Good Video, I thoroughly enjoyed it and I agree with your picks. With one exception, or more accurately, one addition mentioned at the end.
There were a few others who might have come close, such as Finrod who came close to defeating Sauron in a duel of Songs of Power. Perhaps on another day and in different circumstances .........? Who knows?
Perhaps the 5 Wizards or Istari, Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, Alatar & Palandro all acting together may have been able to defeat Sauron. After all, that's what they were sent to Middle Earth to do.
Perhaps the one real ommission from the list is Eonwe the Maia. Mightiest of all beings in arms in Arda. Compared to Eonwe, Sauron would have been second best.
The Istari were all Maia like Sauron, however were only able to enter middle earth with a fraction of their true power.
Eonwe’ was the mightiest of the Maia and hands down would have had Sauron’s measure.
@ Eonwe was not said to be the mightiest of the Maiar. Besides, Maiar have ranks within them. Tolkien says that Sauron belong to a “far higher” order compared to the Istari
I came here to challenge the title...But find mostly, that you have made your point even though many never stood against Sauron. Problem is most didn't exist in the time Sauron stood as dark lord
@@robertstewart1223 When Sauron wasn’t even the Dark Lord Tolkien said that he was Morgoths mightiest servant
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 Tolkien often has another meaning when explaining someone's "might." Sauron's might came with his knowledge, and ability, similar to Feanor. While Gothmog, is more similar to Fingolfin. Who's might is weighed more in power and loyalty.
@@AltruistickAsk Tolkien says that Sauron was a greater spirit compared to Balrogs. I didn’t make any comparison with their specialization. Thing is simple, Gothmog is less dangerous and less powerful than Sauron and one that is more easily dealed. He also never showed any good combat feats despite the fact that this was the best thing he could do
That's a common trope in mythology: the first beings are always the most powerful, and the current threat to the world is just a shadow compared to the movers of the universe from ancient times.
The idea that Tom Bombadil is more powerful than Sauron is ridiculous
Punchy, yet indepth. Great content.
I like this breakdown. It shows the depth and richness of Tolkien's realm. It wasn't about pitting the biggest baddie against the world. It shows that Sauron is a schemer with long term plans.
Sauron was still more powerful than everyone on this list expect Valar and Morgoth
Great breakdown. Totally agree with these picks.
@@philipg3322 All of them expect Morgoth and Valar are wrong
@@oguzhanenescetin5702Not really
@@banquo3873 Tolkien himself says that Sauron was Morgoths mightiest servant. So that’s not my own opinion
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 Well Sauron wasnt really that crazy good of a 1v1 warrior despite being physically strong....His main role was being a Master Manipulator, Master of Illusions and great Deceiver aswell as a skilled tactician and strategist. While Gothmog was far superior to Sauron in pure 1v1 battle.. Sauron as someone else described it perfectly "being the one who bred the orcs, organizes the armies, plans the strategies, and runs the logistics of keeping these massive armies going. He is the one who ultimately runs the show when Melkor is out and about. If the Balrogs are the weapons of Melkor, Sauron is the brains of the operation."
@ Sauron was not a warrior he was a sorcerer and just because he is a manipulator doesn’t mean that he was bad at fighting
Gothmog never showed any feats that puts him above Sauron in terms of fighting. Give me an example and I will debunk it
Slight issue. Some of the Tom Bombadil photos aren't accurate. He's described as being much more colorfully dressed and for some reason he looks a lot more dour than he should. You should tell whatever photographer took those shots. I get the snarky feeling that they need to read the text more carefully. Next thing you know, they'll be taking photos of orcs nursing their babies. Great video as always.
I would've liked to see Eonwe on this list.
The Valar are angels, there is only 1 god in Tolkiens works.
Is the name mentioned? You are correct✅☑
The Valar are considered in Tolkien’s work they are lesser gods lower case god and and are technically his children, which makes them gods themselves the valor just emanations of him.
@@frieza2013 No, they are angels, there is only 1 god called Eru.
@ yes they are even by men and elves they are call as such only the maiar are considered angels you must remember Tolkien’s work is based of Christianity more specifically some gnostic parts of Christianity plus even though internet says they are gods
Yes, the Valar are gods in J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings the Answer from google
No, the Maiar are not gods in The Lord of the Rings, googles Ai answer for Maiar
In Middle-earth, the individual Valar were known by other names in other languages. For example in Sindarin, Varda was called Elbereth. Men knew them by many other names, and sometimes referred to them as "gods"
They're like Archangels/Pagan gods with Eru being the capital G Abrahamic God
I would have included Eonwe, standard bearer of the Valar. He was of the same order as Sauron, Maiar, and was the greatest in arms in all of Middle-Earth, leading the Armies of the Valar in the War of Wrath. Sauron asked pardon from him but Eonwe did not have the authority to pardon him and urged him to go to Valinor. Melian also includes special mention as someone who held back Morgoth and Sauron during the Wars of the Silmaril for a time.
@@romandacil3984 Sauron and Melian matched each other in Taur-nu-fuin
Definitely a lot of power beings, but not sure that all of these can beat Sauron.
Sauron are the Jedis, white and Blak
After a king of numenor landed on valinour the Valour gave up stewardship of Arda
Is the Ecthelion in this video Denethor’s father ?
No , this Ecthelion was an elf lord who died in the First age.
Denethor was a human in the third age, 1000s of years after the death of Ecthelion.
I love it your video! My favourites from these characters are Morgoth Bauglir & Ancalagon the Black. Gothmog was certainly superior to Sauron in raw, physical battle prowess but Sauron eclipsed him in cunning & the powers of magic/sorcery - I’ll call that one a draw.
@@arjunakorale6166 Its not draw Tolkien calls Sauron superior to Gothmog. Gothmog has zero impressive individual combat feats
@@oguzhanenescetin5702Exactly, gothmog never showed any individual killing feats
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 Yes, I think that you are right. However, collectively, the Balrogs were a force to be reckoned with. As I recall even the greatest of the great, Morgoth, was terrified of Ungolient when she was pissed. The Balrogs, on the other hand, were able to see Ungolient off.
@@Dereisendrache177 Yes, you may be right. However, the Balrogs, together as a collective, were a force to be reckoned with.
@@arjunakorale6166 Of course, Seven balrogs would definitely be much greater than Sauron or almost anyone of that matter
We have to talk about "which version of Sauron" to make the comparison:
- About Huan: Sauron faced a being immune to magic; with a prophecy dictating his destiny; in addition to the remnants of magic from Lúthien's cloak (which made Morgoth sleep on his throne);
- About Ancalagon: in terms of destruction, Ancalagon must really be very terrible to face. It took Eärendil and the Silmaril (containing the light of the Holy Spirit) to defeat him;
- About the Balrogs: Tolkien says that Sauron was on a spiritual level above the Balrogs. Sauron could do things that, apparently, the Balrogs were not capable of: Earthquakes; control the weather/storms; cause illness; make Tsunamis (History of Middle Earth version); break your enemies' spells; control a Volcano, etc.
- Fëanor is the greatest of Ilúvatar's sons in terms of Inventiveness, intelligence (not to be confused with wisdom) and potential to contribute to the history of Arda (Silmarils, Palantir). But, in 1 on 1 combat. I think Sauron takes this one. Even weakened after the Fall of Númenor, Sauron managed to fight his way through the lines of the Last Alliance and walked 30 miles from Barad-dûr to Mount Doom. He must have killed hundreds or even thousands of Elves and Númenóreans. He faced Elrond, Cirdan, Isildur, Elendil and Gil-galad.
- Fingolfin: I really don't know. Sauron could defeat him only if he used some powerful magic. Maybe, Songs of Power.
- Ungoliant: I think that the Ungoliant, after sucking the lights from the trees, and who managed to escape from Tulkas and Oromë (with their hunters) had an absurd potential even for Sauron.
- Of the Valar: Well, it's the Valar.
- Morgoth: Tolkien says that Sauron of the Second Age was more powerful than Morgoth at the end of the First Age.
Tom Bombadi: In the Council of Elrond it is said that Sauron would defeat Bombadil eventually. In the History of Middle Earth Version, Tom would be defeated by Sauron personally.
Perhaps it remained unclear how much the One Ring made a difference to Sauron. I would have had him face (and defeat) Ossë or Eonwë in Númenor. One helped create the Island, and the other is a patron who taught Númenor's Fathers. This would show that the same Sauron, who surrendered to Eonwë in the First Age, was more powerful than the Herald of Manwë in the Second Age (Sauron's peak). This could be The "event". It would be the event that definitively convinced Númenor that Morgoth would protect the Númenóreans in their invasion of Valinor.
Sauron at his strongest was more powerful than morgoth at his weakest.That is what Tolkien was saying. Melkor at his peak was in another league than Sauron
@@fpalitangYes and it is stated that Sauron was not more powerful at all, he was simply more effective than Melkor at the end of the first age. Raw might and effectiveness are very different.
@@Donny229 Such thing is never stated
Sauron kinda learn from morgoth mistakes, who became weaker as time passed by, because he tainted as much as possible with his power and malice, but also giving up a little bit of his being every time, in the opposite Sauron gathered all he was on the Ring.
Yet morgoth will always remain on middle earth as the root of all evil.
I honestly disagree with alot of this list. Comparisons in Tolkiens universe is tough because its based around soft magic. That being said, in terms of overall combined power and ignoring any plot armor (eg Huan, elves), Saurons might, influence, and power far exceed any elf, maiar (balrogs or other uncorrupted maiar) or creature (dragon). The only exception in my opinion is Ungoliant and Bombadil. I should also add that in combat, Sauron would lose to most dragons. Sauron after all was not known for his combat prowess though he has demonstrated some impressive feats.
@@LilDavyy-l6c Lotr magic is not subtle by any means. Its effects are pretty spectacular
Why do you think that a dragon would be able to defeat Sauron?
Tolkien himself says that Sauron was a being too terrible to face directly by even the most powerful beings in combat in Middle Earth such as Gandalf.
@@oguzhanenescetin5702soft vs hard magic system doesn't mean subtle or direct magic my unknowing friend...
@@lukemountain1077 This still doesn’t matter. Lotr magic is still not subtle in its system as well
Some of this is questionable... But I do think there's a fair case for Huan, Ancalagon, Gothmog, and Ungoliant being stronger. The Valar are obvious.
@@soup_doctor Sauron was more powerful than Huan, Ancalagon and Gothmog. Tolkien says that Sauron was Melkors mightiest servant. Ungoliant is close but she is also lesser to him given that Melian defeated Ungoliant herself who is more or less equal to Sauron
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 I agree, on the list, I can only see Valar being more mighty, Olorin was afraid of Sauron.
@ Exactly. Sauron that made Olorin frightened was also a Third Age Sauron without the Ring, a diminished version of his formerself.
@@oguzhanenescetin5702huan literally defeated Sauron in one on one combat
@ It wasn’t one on one combat. Luthien helped him. Before that he fled before Sauron. You can read the text again to see that
I don’t know. Most I support but I can’t agree with all. Fairly certain that Tolkien himself concluded that because Morgoth had disseminated his power across all of Arda (Morgoth’s Ring) that his power was significantly diminished, so that Sauron with his Ring would likely triumph over him. And therefore, just because someone could go toe-to-toe with Melkor, does not mean they could beat Sauron at full strength. I certainly don’t believe that Feanor could do so.
And it is clearly stated that should Sauron triumph in the War of the Ring, though he may be the last to fall as he was the first to exist, that Tom Bombadil would ultimately fall.
I agree that Ungoliant was (having sucked the two trees dry) at that point more powerful than Morgoth, but that is a singular moment in time, and she was not necessarily more powerful than him as a rule, so I would question assuming that she was more powerful than Sauron with his ring.
Luthien sang Sauron to sleep. And her mom, Melian, was probably at least Sauron's equal as a Maia. Perhaps even stronger than him. Her power kept Morgoth out of one of the elf kingdoms.
@@arten Luthien sang Sauron to a “fleeting drowsiness” and Sauron knocked her over with his mere presence. Melian and Sauron matched each other in Taur-nu-fuin
Well, there’s 14 valar, and Eru for a start
Not in middle earth
i kind of doubt that Gothmog could kill Sauron...or well he could BUT Gothmog never killed any of the famous heros on his own, he always had some other balrog to help him and was slain by one elf.
@@jimbombadill Finally someone with a functioning logic that can see the truth behind a gossip spread by Lotr fandom and not Tolkien
What about Illuvatar?
the vid. does say "middle earth" after all and Eru never entered Ea much less Arda (where middle earth was located). everyone on the list spent at least some time in middle earth.
No one brought up Gil-Galad and Elendil. Even if you throw in Elrond, Cirdan (not sure what they did exactly)and Isildur (the corpse looter) that isn't a lot of warriors against a minor god. And Sauron had the ring at that time. Sauron is extremely dangerous but he isn't invincible. Even at the end of the 3rd age you could probably get enough good elves and men, maybe even some dwarves, to take down Sauron. Of course he is diminished without the ring so Sauron's real power is that no one can get to him. Probably because he doesn't have a great record at 1 v 1.
@@wawaweweb1811 Tolkien states that Sauron was weaker in the Last Alliance due to his bodily death in Numenor
Why isn't Isildur on this list?
He didn't beat Sauron
You could argue Sauron was much more powerful than Morgoth with the rings. That's the whole point of the rings, they gave him unfathomable power and he was able to amplify Morgoth's powers.
Not even with the ring, Morgoth was very potent.
May be at the end when morgoth had used a lot of his power, but the ring had all sauron's power. Without it, he wasn't much galadrial banished him without the ring. Luthian would take sauron she put morgoth to sleep. Also had sauron snoozing.
Sauron with the ring and Sauron before the rings were created are not the same. The One Ring gave him giant power which is hard to compare with anyone in the list.
Also Morgoth is tough to compare with Sauron, because Sauron accumulated his force into the ring, which made him stronger and stronger. Morgoth was giving his power away to corrupt everything around him. Each creature "created" in that way took away some part of Morgoth's power. So in 1 vs 1 combat Sauron from begining of 1st age wouldn't have any chances agains Morgoth from that time. But "late" Morgoth vs Sauron with Ring?
Elendil and Gil-Galad defeated Sauron while the latter was wielding the Ring.
Saurons’ power wqs of course intrinsically bound to the ring, and therefore you’d have to question at what part of his existence could he be taken down by the said selections..
At the height of his power with the One Ring he must have at least rivalled Gothmog and Ecthellion.
The greatest omission here would have to be Ingwe’ (even though he never returned to Middle Earth).
As King of the Vanyar and having dwelt in Valinor for all of the ages we would have far surpassed all other elves and rivalled the mightiest of the Maia (including all Balrogs).
Having the Valar and Melkor in the selections is pointless really as they were infinitely more powerful than lesser beings.
Good topic though
@@matthewdavis8435 He didnt rival Gothmog and Ecthelion. He surpassed them. Ingwe is also less powerful
@ this is fantasy literature hypothesis… there are no definitives. An adept would as a minimum support their claim.
@ Hypotesises becomes relevant when there are no definitive statements that can determine the outcome of the argument. In that case, there are MANY statements that shows Sauron’s superiority over Gothmog hence this becomes not a hypothesis but a fact.
“But at length, after the fall of Fingolfin, Sauron, greatest and most terrible of the servants of Morgoth, who in the Sindarin tongue was named Gorthaur, came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower upon Tol Sirion…”
Silmarillion
“Morgoth corrupted many spirits some great as Sauron and less so as the Balrogs, least would have been primitive orcs”
History of Middle Earth Morgoths Ring
@ and the statements referring to Ingwe’ are where?
@@matthewdavis8435 Galadriel was said to be “equal in endowment of Feanor” ( HoME ) and that’s what Tolkien says would happen if Third Age Sauron and Galadriel fought
“Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him - being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form.In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power.” Letter 246
Feanor was more powerful than Ingwe. So Sauron, even in the Third Age is more powerful than all the elves that have ever existed
“For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him.”
Silmarillion
I think Sauron was a greater Maia than Gothmog. Hard to say between Sauron and Ancalagon though
@@CryptoNews2 You are right. Tho Sauron is also greater than Ancalagon
A dragon the size of a small mountain would clearly have greater destructive output just with its fire breath than anything Sauron could do by his own strength.
But Morgoth probably wouldn't have created something like that without installing loopholes to dominate its mind and keep it under control. His right hand Maiar presumably has access to those same levers to ensure obedience, as he did for the orcs and trolls.
@@xcfjdyrkdtulkgfilhu Ancalagon wasn’t the size of a mountain and Sauron doesn’t need to have just as much fire breathing power in order to be as deadly as him. His fear aura was capable of draining entire lands
Did we not forget about Eru Illuvatar?
He's not exactly "in" Middle Earth now is he
No Gothmog could not defeat Sauron. Sauron was innately powerful. No, both Exthelion and Gothmog, though better warriors, would lose.
Now, has for Feanor was more creative, but again, his power was less.
You have done a good list, but you are mixing combat skills with innate power. I understand that Valar, Ungoliant, and Ancalagon are obviously more powerful. The rest are debatable best especially the Elves.
Now, I'd also add that Tom Bombadil is has powerful or in another way different type of power it doesn't equate to hind defeating Daruin. Also Glorfindel said at the council of Elrind that if all feel and Tom was left.on his own to face Sauron, he would be alst to fall.
I agree in some ways level.playing field just one on one fight some of thsie entire d especially Fingolfin stand a chance.ithwrwise nit really. You also missed Eonwe, who was Manwes Chief General. With arms, he was unbeatable ( Tulka was far stronger, and Orome had a greater anger and innate power), but with weapons, he beats anyone. I'd add him to your list in a heartbeat.
@@seanmarshall7403 Ancalagon is not more powerful than Sauron
Gandalf and Elrond did not believe Bombadil could defend his land from an invasion by Sauron.
@@CybeleCotter Yeah most people ignore such quotes
Well, when 1000’s of orcs start cutting down your forest…
Sauron wouldn’t last against equivalent forces in Barad Dur if he was on his own
@@derekmiller6091 Your argument for this? Orcs doesn’t matter when higher beings are at play. It is said that no matter how many armies Sauron threw at Lothlorien it would fail expect if he came in person. Similar is the situation between Sauron and Bombadil
Not sure Feanor could have defeated Sauron in combat.
Sauron was a Mayer and of less power than the Valour
I believe his descendant, John, was renowned for his prowess to bag all the Hollywood girls
In fact, Luthien was too much for Sauron, and even Melkor. I guess almost all HIGH Elves would have beaten Sauron, a Maia, Glorfindel, for sure, even Maedhros and possibly Maglor. Thingol, for sure, also Finarfin and the list would go on and on.
@@pabloberlin9127 Tolkien says that Sauron would be able to defeat Glorfindell even in the Third Age
What makes you think that “all the high elves” could defeat Sauron when none of them could? Luthien literally PASSED IN FEAR to the ground after seeing Sauron.
I figured they would all need to be from the 1st age. But I do disagree with Feanor and ecthelion.
Actually the most powerful being in Middle Earth was John Ronald Reuel Tolkien…😼😼😼
Bro even a dark lord what are you talking about sauron is just a Maiar like huan the hound of orome also must be a vala cause he is the godly hound of the valar he can talk and has imense power so i think he is also one of the ainur that makes him at least a match to sauron.
The velar are not gods, they are angelic beings that serve Eru!
Bomba what?
Bombadil is awesome and these divine beings are derived from both Greek and Nordic mythology. Just so addictive to watch Rings of Power and has made me want to read the Silmarilion book
Morgoth was the most powerful... until Tulkas.
Expect Morgoth and Valar everyone on this list is less powerful than Sauron
No ungoliant almost killed mortgoth if the balrogs didn’t come and Tom bombadil was there first, the ring has no effect on him
@@bgn7612 Ungoliant was defeated by Melian
Bro in combat gothmog the lord of the balrogs was way stronger than sauron and also huan the hound of tha valar even defeated sauron so what are you talking about fingolfin was the strongest elfe ever and way more powerful than gil galad who defeated sauron together with elendil witch was weaker than gil galad i mean yea they both died but saurons body also was useless and isildur could go to him and cut of the ring witch held his broken body alife ☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻
But one thing has to be saied Tom bombadil should not be on this list
@@liamschmolzer9978 Elendil and Gil Galad defeated Sauron while he was at his weakest
Huan fled before Sauron before Luthien intervened
Huan would defeat Gothmog as well
This video speaks about power not about combat potency. Gothmog has zero impressive individual feats.
Bear in mind, Sauron was a serial loser. Against Huan. In the War of Wrath. Against Numenor. Against the Last Alliance. Against the White Council. Against Frodo, Sam and Smeagol. His principal advantages were in guile, and immortality in a world being abandoned by the Eldar and in which Men were becoming just men. He's not that much of a villain, in that light.
@@damianmurphy6133 All of that had explanations. He also had many win record to the likes of Saruman, Finrod, Celebrimbor, Rhovanion, Tol Sirion, Eregion etc
Losing isn't a problem when you're immortal 😂 That was sometimes part of Sauron's plan.
Yeah no