An Interesting Approach - Dawntrail MSQ - Day 2 [Level 91 SPOILERS]
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Catch us on the links below!
Website and Merch Store:
www.preachgaming.com
Preach
Main Channel: / preachgaming
VODs Channel: / @preachgamingvods6265
Twitch: / preachlfw
Twitter: @Preachgaming
Emma:
Twitter: / misspreach
ChunkeyNinja
Twitter: / thechunkeyninja
Twitch: / chunkeyninja
Nupss:
Twitter: / nupss_
Methuzahla:
Twitter: / methuzahla
![I Solved RACISM In 2 Minutes - Dawntrail MSQ - Day 4 [LEVEL 94 SPOILERS]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HnSezcUrRw8/mqdefault.jpg)
![I Solved RACISM In 2 Minutes - Dawntrail MSQ - Day 4 [LEVEL 94 SPOILERS]](/img/tr.png)
![You Can't Do This to Me! - Dawntrail MSQ - Day 5 [LEVEL 95 SPOILERS]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XwtLuG34Ge0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[FFXIV] Five Mistakes Healers Make!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h0vBZGWTCq0/mqdefault.jpg)
20:30 So the issue is is that there was someone in the village who not only knew the meaning behind the festival but they also knew that the float/boat had magical properities. That was Wuk Evu the float/boats repairman. The issue could have litertally been resolved before we even got there had he just told the Hanuhanu leader.
Pretty sure they were not supposed to tell about it because it's part of the test.
The test isn't one of "solve a problem that we can't figure out." It's "can you learn about us enough to figure out this problem." Think about all the other tests. None of them are urgent and high stakes.
I will note that Wuk Evu is shockingly competent and also.... came around ""randomly" few years back. You can connect the dots here
He would if nobody of the claimants had, but the point is to test if any of them can
I didn't even think about the reeds scene lol. I just assumed that they had plentiful harvests in the past and their boat was so neglected it diminished the effects anyways, so the effects were never really noticeable (at least not for a while). It just turned healthy crop into slightly healthier crop.
That was my take going through it. It felt fairly obvious but I didn't really think hard about it, either, so maybe I just missed out on whatever set everyone off.
I don't usually comment on videos, but I just wanted to say I have really enjoyed hearing your perspective on the story so far! I will definitely be watching the rest of these to see your perspective on the whole MSQ if you make videos for it all.
I thought the storm destroyed the current reeds and also brought less aetheric imbalanced water. If nothing happened to the reeds each year, the tradition true meaning would slowly be forgotten since the parade wouldn't change the reeds drastically.
edit: that storm actually feels more like a random McGuffin that impacted the story even though there was some dialogue explaining it.
Yeah, the ritual every year probably did thing "unnoticeable" in the soils/water and the height of the reed didn't change but since the storm destroyed, here the change was visually "violent". Still, I agree that the storytelling should've been better.
yeah exactly, like if you have a people that perform a ritual/festival that manipulates a harvest to always be good, then over the course of a generation it's very likely that the new generations won't realize that that's what it's used for, because they've only ever known good harvests and that they have a festival at a part of the year. They won't even know that the harvest used to be that bad.
The only reason we got "suddenly grown reeds" here was because they were an extraordinarily poor harvest due to the storm. They weren't as healthy as they usually were before the festival.
@@Coldhandz117 Valigarmanda was the cause of the storm which makes your point more valid. Again it could have done way better and told more naturally but the text supports what happens.
Apart from that, the deterioration of the focus would also make any visual change less obvious, and the same might also be the case for doing the ritual just for the sake of tradition and entertainment, without faithfully praying for a better harvest.
Between those three things, I think it makes plenty of sense, that the meaning of the ritual might have been forgotten.
Besides, the issue with the storm wasn't that there was any storm, but that it was such an exceptionally violent storm and that also the timing. If the storm had hit after the ritual was completed, maybe the freshly charged up reeds wouldn't have gone into such a pitiful state, but had the strength to recover to at least some degree.
The storm was caused by Valigarmanda's seal weakening, which we "fixed", and the effects of it was used throughout the 90-91 quests. It's a bit unfair to call it a random McGuffin imo, you need to have a certain amount of elements "just there" for a plot to function without 9000 hours of exposition covering every last detail. Urianger's echo-buster is an example of an actual random McGuffin that should've been handled better.
I think the pressing issue with the Hanu Hanu ritual was that they said it was an annual thing yet the somehow forgot its meaning. Even if they cannot see the aether or the immediate effect they cannot be this oblivious that the connection is there.
Its like celebreating christmas for ages and suddenfly forgetting about the christmas tree or that it means the birth of christ. Even when you don't celebrate it for a couple of years you wouldn't just forget about it.
Furthermore in the Hanu Hanu case the ritual literally is for the fertility of their land. It is in the festivals meaning, they tell you what the festival is for yet the connection still isn't made.
Doesn’t that Christmas example prove the point though? Tons of people won’t even connect the dots between Christmas and Christ because the original religious meaning is just so far removed
@@danielnoh1520 except the hanuhanu in this metaphor have lived in a religious household their whole lives
@@danielnoh1520 Well normally every child learns the meaning of christmas you're probably heavily reminded when you leave your house during that time, though christmas was just a substitute to give an example. You could pick any religious event from the culture or country you're from that's celebrated annually. Shit even the main inspection of your car every two years here in germany is an example. I haven't owned a car for a long time and I still know it is to make sure the vehicle is all right and safe for the streets.
We literally have holidays here in America that people celebrate every year and yet most people don’t know or understand the original reason or meaning behind it. It’s not that uncommon.
@@KironX1 It absolutely is. There is not a single massive holiday in germany that "most" of the people do not know the reason of, besides younger people like teens or really ignorant people maybe but it generally is considered common knowledge.
Edit: I guess it all depends on if people do care about them or not. In the case of the discussion (the Hanu Hanu) it is highly unlikely a religious folk with lots of festivities would forget about the reasoning behind something they do every year, even more so with their elders being around. In all cases of gaming where you have religious groups you also have elders teach the younger generations.
There's a successful precedent for what to do after the big high-stakes story climax, it's something that 90s Star Trek would do regularly. After a huge storyline like the Borg invasion, the show would typically -- like Dawntrail -- calm down and give us a very character-centric episode like "Family". In Family, Picard goes home to his family's vineyard, Worf spends time with his adoptive parents, and Wesley uncovers a lost holographic message left by his dead father.
But that's the thing: it's appealing because it's taking the opportunity to examine the characters we love in a peacetime context, revealing things about them we'd never see while explosions are going off all around. Dawntrail had the right concept, but at this fragile transitional moment in the story, chose to focus on characters nobody is interested in, while leaving the ones we care about in the refrigerator.
This! I would have LOVED to see how the past events in Endwalker affected our core party and the people outside of our circle. Like there's no way that anyone is just moving on without any sort of trauma...?
All we wanted was 6.1 without the void shit , just adventuring with our friends
Exactly, I would have a story focusing on the less seen sides of characters. Or even put aside most of the main scions and spend time with the B team. Arenval before he was written out was a really nice character they fleshed out and I would not mind the other minor scions receive the same treatment.
To be fair, I’m very interested in a new character! I’m excited to explore a new character, because I feel we’ve explored so much of the Scions already. It’s nice to have a new personality on the team!
yeah, I also think it would be the perfect time to have a more personal story for our character. Like the WoL has gone trough so much but we never really went to our own adventure. It would've been super cool to have a "deep understanding journey of the hero" kinda of story
Somewhat ironically, the Guy Falks explanation in the vid has also misremembered the details of the gunpowder plot, because more modern representations of it, specifically V for Vendetta, have reversed the 'roles' of the state and plotters. The actual gunpowder plot was a group of religious terrorists wanting to blow up the democratically EDIT:(as pointed out below, not really fair to say 'democratically elected' here. Rather, the house represented a significant move away from the monarch as a singular ruler, and toward a more decentralised system that more closely represents what we have in place today. Early steps, to be sure, but still very important ones) elected parliament and current figurehead monarch to return to a monarchy with a monarch of their choosing (who was Catholic, rather than Protestant like King James 1st). Actually just makes it an even better for example of a real life version of the reeds ceremony.
It probably goes a bit far to call the elections of that time democratic, as only a fairly small percentage of the population was allowed to vote. (This is not meant to be a justification for the conspirators at all, just a clarification on the term "democratically elected parliament".)
@@roerd Agreed, poor wording on my part. Cheers for the clarification. Edited to better explain the context. There's obviously also a lot of context around religious persecution of Catholics at the time, and much more, but I've already been far more 'Well Aaaktually...' than I'd have liked. I just wanted to get across both that it wasn't the same 'blow up tyrannical government' thing that V for Vendetta paints it as, and that the details being largely forgotten these days actually just serves to make it an even better example for the ceremony in the game.
I had no idea people had a problem with the reeds zone, It was my 2nd zone in the beginning so I figured we'd need to do something like with the pelupelu and mentally checked out, just reading to myself, the whole ending scene was cheesy but its what I expected, to show what the contestants did to resolve the problem and our cat was the most down to earth one, pretty basic and serviceable quest chain.
To me the reeds scene makes sense because you are essentially summoning a primal to distribute the ether offered to it back unto the crops and land. The more effort and detail put into it the more it effects the results. With the decline in the religious observance of the tribe and bringing up the how the dawn servant did it they stirred up the sentiment of tradition. I would hazard to say when they do it next time the results won't be nearly the same.
My garden must have a group of these HanuHanu with their own boat with the rate these bloody weeds keep sprouting.
Preach talking about soloing bosses reminds me of my olden days of trying to minmax solo runs of Scarlet Monastery in early Vanilla. It was really fun to set a unique, almost pointless challenge and figure out how to solve the puzzle.
I inferred that the bird people had not been doing the ritual properly, and neglected to maintain the float. It's a common problem that you see in real life, a solution is implemented and working, and then people say 'Well, we don't have this problem anymore, why are we still bothering with maintaining the solution?' Then they stop maintaining the solution and the problem eventually reemerges and they all act surprised.
Does it explained in the game on how the ritual has been slowly "detoriate" over the years? I know it's explained the storm caused the ritual to not be done last year.
Also there's a possiblity that, the ritual does work but in a more subtly way in the past, so across the years there's less and less people care about the ritual because well... the crops still grow like usual?
But the Storm now caused something with the aether in the water, and the ritual that usually only really helped a bit, suddenly create a massive benefit because of aether in the water changed.
Does that explained in the game? and if it does, is it told in a good way.
@LordFakeGodzYes because of the Hanu in charge not seeing a reason to hold the festival due to the cross being bad. There's a bunch of younger ones who are all for using technology and throwing out tradition to solve problems. The storm was just the breaking point. Crops had been lowering, but the reeds were decimated by the storm.
@@LordFakeGodz My impression was that the storm was more the last straw which pushed things to a crisis. Everyone was already feeling on edge from the stagnant aether problem (even though it was clear they didn't know that was the root cause), and then the storm on top of that was too much for them to handle.
Basically, I inferred that they had been doing the ritual each year, but it was less and less effective and spectacular, and it either happened too slowly to be noticed or no one bothered to figure out why because the reeds were still growing anyway and it's a fun party. From there they cargo cult it forward until only people that are obsessed with history like Wuk Evu or expert aetherologists like the Scions or Koana are able to understand what the situation actually is.
It would be like if christmas fixed climate change somehow, but you had to use a certain type of tree and ornaments or it wouldn't work. Over the centuries, with only oral tradition to pass down knowledge, it's very easy to imagine the ritual of christmas would continue, but knowledge of the practical applications would be lost, leading to things like fake trees, different ornaments, and then climate change slowly starts to happen again and nobody knows why
I'm glad you're doing these. A lot of what is said puts words to what I felt going through the MSQ. I'm horrible at explaining things eloquently so I've been failing a lot to explain what I felt. Keep up the good work!
The reeds in poor condition transforming into healthy reeds was probably done as a visual cue in the narrative to show that the solution worked because if they looked the same and you had to get some farmer to examine it and then proclaim that they seem healthier, etc, it would have taken more time.
But yeah it looked kind of silly with how much of a literal instantaneous transformation it was
So my understanding of the reeds is that they do the celebration every year and because of that the reeds are consistently growing and have never been in a state of dying like they are at the start of the quest. however because of the recent storm they havnt been able to do it thus leading to the crops dying and the ritual being so old that the average HanuHanu doesn't know the reason for it. Now by doing the ritual we continue the cycle and raise the crops but only half of the crop get revived because more aether is needed since instead of the aether in the land being at say %50 its completely drained, which is why Koana was able to aslo resurrect some plants.
True. Sadly also the guy who is in charge of keeping the Boat intact flat out tells you that he knows about how the Ritual works with the Aether and all...yet he did not remind anyone else it seems
@@vincentbetonYou’d also think that if they originally knew the purpose of the festival float, they’d write it down somewhere or make absolutely sure it’s importance was known considering it’s what keeps them from going hungry. And the fact that Wouk Eva knows means he learned it from somewhere. Just feels…very convenient.
@@omnilisk279 playing devil advocate here but I think it is pretty reasonable for it to not be written down. The bird people are probably the more native race on tural. Their houses and stuff are very primative. They might simply not have a written language. Look at the Yok Huy (the giants), they do everything with just images and stone carvings.
In the crafting weaver/leather quest, you learn that Gulool Ja ja considered creating a universal written language and speech. He eventually decided against it and decided to just adopt the forigen language since developing a new language means they would have to destroy the other people culture, such as the Yok Huy who would no longer do stone carving but instead use pen and paper.
To be fair about the HanuHanu plotline, it’s made clear that the older generation do remember the festival’s purpose. Wuk Evu and the Village Elder mention it. It’s also stated that the ritual does not normally produce such drastic effects. It’s a weak excuse, but it’s believable.
The problem is they just go “oh btw, the ritual also feed ether to the land.” at the end. They deserved this whole farming crisis if they can’t explain/show it the young in their tribe and need to wait for outsider to come by.
It was very reminiscent of Phoenix seeding the land with Aether after the Calamity. Could see the parallel of using the "prayers" of the people to create something similar to a primal summoning, without the primal-ness.
I think bottom line for the reeds thing is that in recent history their crops were doing well enough they genuinely wouldn't have noticed how much healthier they were after the ritual. Particularly when they were more focused on getting back to partying. What caught my attention more than the reeds themselves was how much this one storm impacted this succession event, that it caused problems in nearly every zone and rather than fix it himself he transferred the responsibility to the would-be leaders to get a direct take on their ability to solve problems.
There might've been a number of elements of the ritual that declined over the years or not, it's sort of the side conversation of how traditions in general gradually lose their meaning or die out. This instance was more unique just because it did have a practical purpose and returning it to its roots had a direct impact that was visible to the naked eye.
As someone who reads everything and is a huge lore nerd I really appreciate these vids. I love seeing what sticks in the mind of a normal player. What they miss, what they dont rememeber, what conclusions they make, and what they find boring. It helps me be a better writter and storyteller.
"I hope it doesn't continue." Oh Mike, if you knew...😂
Thank you for taking the time to hash your thoughts out about the good as well as the lackluster aspects of DT's MSQ as you work through it. Your insights keep hitting the nail on the head for me, and has also made me consider other angles on (minor) issues I had with the story. And thank you so much to your team for getting the livestream going here as well! I'm US so the time difference makes it difficult to catch more than part of your streams and I find Twitch to be an irritating site to dig through the backlogs on a good day, haha.
The elders do remember. I think you jus don't recall due to having chat as a distraction :)
I mentioned it in chat today, but I think things land differently when you don't have thousands of people yapping at you.
I think the elder really are NOT worry at all about this reed issue from the begining, so they 100% KNOW how to get the reed growth back on track. if they have food shortage problem it would be weird that nothing mentioned in Tuliyollal when we first met the hanuhanu. An expert on the ship repair is also in town further prove this to be the elder's solution.
I think its more likely that the elder decide to use it as a form of education/testing for the younger generation, so they decide to let this issue sleep for few days.
In retrospect and with some stretching but the gulool jaja was working on the rite of succession and 3 years? Have passed since the head of reason died. But I also doubt that they'd particularly just have the hanu hanu ruin their plots for an extended time.
Koana: Electrolytes! It's what plants crave!
Every expansion my brother and I try to Unsync all the savage raids and extremes with just the 2 of us - efficient or not, it's literally my favorite thing to do in the game! ❤
I didn't really like the reeds plot that much, but IIRC, the dialogue mentioned that the boat went through a lot of wear and tear over the years and the Hanu Hanu didn't really take good care of the boat; probably because they didn't know that it had a causal relationship with crop yield. So my take of the reeds growing 4 times larger but they didn't notice was that perhaps before the storm broke the boat, the effects were a lot more minor and subtle. Also if the device takes aether from the surrounding people, it's likely that we, wuk lamat, and the scions gave it a boost.
Concerning the ritual with the reeds, not only had the Hanu Hanu been neglecting to maintain the quality of physical and spiritual aspects of the festival which on its own had dampened the effects to the point where they became less noticeable and were therefore forgotten, but because of all of the very powerful characters present for the ritual this time (the promises and their entourages including Scions and the WoL), there was a lot more aether for the renewed ritual to absorb, amplify, and distribute which produced a far greater result that made the effects of the ritual very obvious. I believe this was mentioned during the dialogue.
I just assumed it was the WoL's mega juiced aether or smth.
I also imagine, that if they do the festival every year, the crops always look full and healthy, so the harvest wouldn't suddenly spring to life as obviously as it did when the reeds were dead
I thought it was pretty obvious that the Hanu Hanu people had just forgotten the original purpose of the festival and therefore did not know that the festival created a good harvest. Because if they were to consistently perfrom the harvest and always had good harvest, Then the meaning of the festival eventually gets lost
I have been so happy with Mike's ability to hone in on the themes of the expansion rather than getting bogged down in largely irrelevant plothole criticisms. The rational given for the instantaneous reed revival are somewhat throwaway lines (The ceremony was unusually strong, Hanu have forgotten its true purpose, the storm destroyed the current reeds which made the ceremony more noticeable) but that isn't the point. The story would not have been improved if the ceremony was deemed a success after months of reed height measurements while being cross referenced with previous years growth and determining that the festival yielded growth rates two standard deviations higher than previous years.
I will never understand people who are asked "what did you think of X story" and they reply with a condensed Wikipedia synopsis of plot points that they find incredulous. As if watching 2 uncut hours of CCTV footage would be a cinematic masterpiece because it was completely logically consistent.
For the reeds: they wouldn't notice instant growth if they do it every year.... because the reeds would not be in shambles if they did it every year. The reeds would constantly be healthy. So there would be no noticeable difference year to year until they stop doing the ritual.
not quite stated blatantly that I can remember but /shrug.
yeah that's the issue. it's not well explained. There's also a possiblity the reason why the ritual give massive change to the reeds is because the storm, doing something with the aether in the water.
It's combination of both, and neither is explained in a way that people understand.
What if reeds just got a little bit greener instead of growing three times their size, would it change the reception? If yes, then all this discussion and analysis was done for nothing.
I think they went with enbiggening of plants to make it obvious for those who pay less attention or are just a bit slower in general.
if the visual effect of everyone being wrapped in aether was less prominent and the reeds didn't immediately go from "dead" to "fully grown", not even remotely as many people would have an issue with that; honestly, to me the base idea WAS solid (maybe I'd have just made it so the solution wasn't literally the first thing that popped in Wuk's head, but that is a different topic), they just showed it poorly from a visual standpoint
13:30 I remember when the big cat restore the boat, he mentioned the ritual was not properly performed in years. When things are fine, this could be quite minor, ignorable. And when things go wrong, they tend to lose faith in old ways. Actually, the leader of villiage already had the plan to perform the ritual, and the wise head know it. That's the purpose of the task, to bring back faith in bad situation, a definite required ability of true leader.
And although our kitty is zero politic, she do a perfect move, to honor someone's legacy and solve someone's problem, together. Which is not easy when you had a time limit.
Wuk Lamat's first response after analyzing the dying crops being 'let's cheer the Hanu up' immediately put my brain on standby. At that point, we're just along for the ride.
It did feel extremely convenient that her ridiculous suggestion carried (unknown to her) hidden depth.
She spot on realized that low moral can't fix an issue, she realizes that if she was to get any hints at a fix it would be from the people who had been doing this for a long time. Felt completely natural
While her idea did indeed end up being a magical solution, I don't think her original intention was to either fix the reeds or earn the Keystone at first chance. She just wanted to cheer up the people and make their miserable life a little happier.
It also just so happened to be EXACTLY what was needed to fix it, but that wasn't the goal, originally.
@@Zakharon Even the WoL’s responses to the festival were akin to “I don’t know….” or “Stranger things have happened.” Completely natural is not how I’d describe the sequence of events, and even the writers acknowledge it with us in that moment.
My issue here is Lamat immediately sought to increase morale with Ihi’Hanu before addressing anything directly with the crops… with little to no pushback. The Hanu were still recovering from the recent storm’s destruction. I’d argue a visitor coming into your destroyed village and pushing for you to have your festival with buildings in need of repair and your crops failing could be incredibly insensitive if not outright insulting.
Those were my thoughts before the festival was revealed to be any sort of solution.
I can't wait for you to get to the lvl 97 story :) I am excited to see what your perspective is going to be about the responsibility of a leader.
regarding the reeds
they wouldnt know because the reeds were always healthy when they did it so they didnt notice the growth "side quests show that"
The reeds ritual makes more sense to me if you think about them doing this ritual each year, the crops were good each year, they didn't see any difference until this year when they couldn't do it and they had lost the knowledge that the ritual really had a purpose. If you didn't see a change in the past because they continued it, and it just maintained the great crops you have it wouldn't be obvious until it was in obvious decline and there were issues. Growing up on a farm I've seen this when we did something different that changed our crop yield in one year that was a small change to what we did the years before that couldn't be done that year because we couldn't afford it.
Hearing the "if anyone ever lies to me I absolve myself of their presence for all eternity" guy talk about the divorce comments on Reddit was quite funny.
I have absolutely no idea how the story got so far along and nobody noticed how insufferable it was in playtesting.
I didn't know the Reeds bit was controversial. It made sense to me. If you water a plant everyday the plant will seen fine and healthy the entire time but if you stop for a week it's going to wilt. If they kept the ritual going consistently it's plausible they'd never notice it's effects.
Either way it's a bit silly to have part of a succession ceremony contingent on an environmental disaster.
The reed story directly states a few times that they've been doing it for generations without understanding it initially began as a way to foster reed growth with their aether. There's more then 1 dialogue between the bird and wuk, and between the scions and wuk about this and why the scions begin to suspect there's more to it then just a "feel good" celebration.
Yeah I’m really surprised to hear that a lot of people missed this. I suspect they weren’t paying too much attention to text boxes. Which is fine, but I don’t know how more obvious they could’ve made it. I realised that’s what’s going on as soon I talked to Wuk Evu
My understanding is that they never even missed the celebration before so they never had their reeds all fucked up like that to notice the difference. But that they had never missed the festival in their entire history also seems kinda unlikely. Either way, it looks so stupid that the plants would IMMEDIATELY become hyper GMO crop instantly. I suppose they just needed to prove Wut Lmao's approach had SOME effect but it's almost cartoonish.
I think part of the ritual with the Hanuhanu and their reeds was also impacted by the WoL (and maybe the other Scions) that made the effect far more effective than it would have been otherwise, thus the dramatic change.
Thanks for the insights, Preach! I guess I had made some assumptions (yup, I know what happens when we assume) or read something differently at that part of the story, and it didn't register as weird or misplaced to me. I may need to "New Game +" that part to see where I got off track.
With the amount of mental gymnastics already going on in this comment section, the later videos are gonna be SPICY.
I've had my popcorn ready ever since I finished the MSQ. The story could've been great, if you take a step back, and look at its parts, the idea is there. The execution, the story writing, the characters... jesus christ man, I could've written more impactful characters in high-school.
@@medekhgui I eagerly await to read your literary masterpieces.
@@thesunthrone Don't temp me. Spoilers ahead incase you haven't finished the MSQ yet.
I seriously want to rewrite the script for the entire Erenville's family section, with how poorly written his mothers introduction, and death reveal was. It just kinda... happened in a cutscene with nobody around to share in the drama. He didn't discover it using his skills as a gleaner, his reaction was so mild, and the disney character TV screen was just lame and made the plot twist painfully, disrespectfully obvious. There was almost no emotion when Eren meets his mother again after discovering the truth. It was just so flat and empty.
I'd also rewrite the Iq'Braax and Mamook arc. It felt so set up to have these guys have some favoritism for the cat duo, and clear disdain for the Mamoolja duo. That whole trial felt rigged. There could've been some big drama about how the Hrothgar who bathe in the sun above keep kicking the Mamoolja down into the dark forest. That would pile more weight onto Bakool Ja Ja's shoulders, making him a more compelling character who feels pressure to be this great and powerful leader, even if he has no idea how or why he needs to lead. It would also give some depth to Galool Ja Ja and his failings as a leader, as he was unable to fully resolve the conflict between these two tribes. It would be understandable why the citizens of Mamook wouldn't see Galool Ja Ja as the saviour everyone else thinks he is given the situation they are in, they must feel abandoned by their own kin.
I could go on about the other characters that were shafted with limited or poor character growth, but I guess I'll save it for the novel.
TL;DR is there is no real character conflict in this expansion. The conflict between Sphene and Wuk is skin-deep, and on a country-destroying scale that just doesn't resonate with the reader at all with these characters.
@@thesunthroneone doesn't need to be a professional writer to recognise a bad story I the same way one doesnt need a culinary school diploma to tell that a piece of meat is overcooked and dry.
@@medekhgui This isn't criticism. You're just outlining things you personally didn't like, rather than what didn't work. And it also outlines that you straight up didn't pay attention.
So, the Iq'Braax and Mamook. The whole point of their conflict is that on paper, it IS resolved. They made peace, they no longer openly war among themselves, and Gulool Ja Ja is a descendant of Mamook who rules the continent. Most of the Mamool Ja you see in the capital are from the forest, what's left there are the hardline traditionalists that are seething that Gulool Ja Ja DIDN'T elevate them as the ruling caste - this fact that he didn't being stated by Zoraal Ja as his example of a righteous conqueror's rule. Yet rather than go with Gulool Ja Ja's new way of embracing other cultures, the hardline traditionalists decided to double down because surely, if this two-head child of theirs could conquer the entire continent, another would do the same and surpass them. That is why Bakool Ja Ja says that he wants to bring all his people to the capital and put his "siblings" in the castle at the top - this is what he has been taught by his father, what the hardliners believe will be their win condition.
And the entire point of why it appears it gets resolved so quickly is that the traditonalists are just exhausted. For 20 years they have been doing their eugenics, absolutely destroyed their birthrate, seen their young try and conquer lands beyond the ocean just to gain some glory, all for nothing. Their city is half-empty, anyone that has the ability just leaves, and whoever's left just languishes in this miserable obsession. What can Gulool Ja Ja say or do that he hasn't already, but these people have rejected outright due to their wounded pride? They don't want to listen, they instead just see him as proof that their eugenics will pay off again - so an outsider is necessary to finally tell them to move on.
The Iq'Braax don't even have a real problem with them. The Mamook that haven't left their dark forest just sit there and seethe in misery. The solutions are all around them, yet they don't bother to listen. That is why it's only when Bakool Ja Ja loses, accepts it, gets relieved of this burden thrust upon him from birth and done so by TWO members of the royal family, with their Sharlayan archon entourage, does it finally set in that yes, the Mamook ways are completely exhausted and reached a dead end. Gulool Ja Ja was a fluke, every other blessed sibling that survived birth simply could not achieve the same glory, not even close. We kill one of them in the Wanderer's Palace like he's no big deal, after all.
All of this is in the story and the world. I didn't make any of it up. Everything I outlined is either directly stated in the main dialogue or side dialogues, or quickly inferrable from both. Where exactly is there lack of drama? This is a reflection of generational trauma, of deeply wounded pride, of people that cannot let go of their pretenses for past glories... there is so much tension in this conflict that directly mirrors real world issues RIGHT NOW.
I'm not even bothering with the Erenville's mother point, because it's painfully obvious that you've written down personal dislikes, rather than objective criticism. If you don't like that she's a floating cartoon rabbit for a portion of the story, you better put Final Fantasy games down in their entirety.
To recap and underline, it is COMPLETELY FINE to not like stories, story beats, characters, or not feel connected with them. What is NOT fine is to take your personal dislikes or disappointments and act like they are objective fact. Any work of fiction will have people that intensely dislike it regardless of its quality. I put down books written in first person, and I simply don't care whether they're literary masterpieces - I just don't like fiction in first person and that's that. Difference being, I don't go around saying how they're awful just because I personally don't like them. I just move on to enjoy something that is to my tastes.
The thing about the reeds is that it ultimately doesn't matter. You take the issue as it is and the solution as it is and you can find your own way to justify why it was that way.
- The storm made the crops worse than normal, so the ritual has more of a visual effect than it normally did
- the ritual was in disrepair and so they didn't actually perform it properly in the past
These taken apart or together are I think worthy and easy explanations, but ultimately the reason for why matters very little beyond the reality the game presents.
As always Preach!
Keeping it professional, objective and fair critisism!
Keep on doing what you are doing, without the exessive drama for clicks like other content creators!
This particular ritual pulled aether from THE Warrior of Light and their saving-the-world buddies. It's only natural it had a much grander effect than with some birds who treated it like a party.
This makes a ton of sense in context and I've heard it from a few people, but the fact that nobody mentions or alludes to this in msq or any of the sidequests in the area, even as a meta nod to the player, makes me think it's just the community attempting justifying a very poorly written part of the story
Which is a trend for dt tbh; the more you stop to think about anything that happens the less plausible it all gets, the more you need to assume shit for it to not just fall apart entirely
I figured since they didn't maintain the boat it was working less year after year. Or working less and less. It doesn't help that the guy running the festival was 2nd up and didn't understand the history of it. But clearly some people in the village did know, and didn't say anything. My guess is because of the storm and the festival was the last thing on their mind. Like, I don't think it unfolds like it does 1.) If the Hanu in charge wasn't killed during the storm 2.) The storm doesn't happen.
You will learn his name.
Lali-Ho!!!🎉
I'm having more fun listening to Mikes breakdowns and guesses than I had with the MSQ itself.
During the festival everyone gets mega drunk so nobody notices the effects on the plants
"This is a boundary overstep and the only resolution is to dissolve the situation immediately" omg thank you for calling that out. I see that all the time. I was in a relationship recently where my partner hurt me really bad, and I told others about it just wanting to talk about it to someone. My partner and I resolved the issue and got back together, but half the people I told about this I'm stuck lying to now - I have to tell them we're still broken up because of how strongly they condemned my even entertaining the notion of continuing the relationship. It kills me that the conventional wisdom these days is that every single snag a relationship is met with demands immediate full no-contact break up forever.
I really love these videos, and can't wait for the next one!
It's a very weird expansion. Combat, trials, dungeons etc? Just great. Story? And the way the focus of the story is SO about a single character? Just... weird. And kind of insane.
Oh man. The 3:30 - 4:30 exposition is going to be a tough pill to swallow in a few days
Ah yes, the story about who is fit to rule a nation should be boiled down to "What is more fun?"
There's 100 percent an angle this story is shooting for right now and I'm basing this solely off watching you play (i quit in EW post patch). Wuk Lamat is actually learning how those cultures work while the other contestants are forcing their way on the contest.
Great take on the discourse over relationships. It’s a good reminder that some of the people that played this game are not mature or experienced in relationships and are not reading between the lines with a lot of conversations that the characters have.
I had no idea people were upset about the reeds. I just remember thinking “Huh, thats weird “ then immediately moving on. I was really trying to think of what might passionately upset someone from the early story and was really drawing blanks. I understand not vibing with the early story but beyond that nothing really seemed worthy of outrage.
If I remember right, Wuk Evu was that wisened old man
Yeah the part with the reeds, is where i felt like some stories ended up on the cutting room floor, for what ever reasons. And the rewrites felt rushed, because of time limits maybe, or what something along those lines ? It's hard to discuss this now, interested to see where the mind dumps are going, i am watching the stream when i can.
The thing preach mentioned regarding wonderous tales, and koana reminds me of something I have said, and even I think Josh Stryfe Hays has said, is that gamers are so focused on the destination now, that they forget to enjoy the journey. Wuk Lamat is taking the time to enjoy the journey, while Koana is super focused on the destination.
I look at the whole reeds thing, and why the first half seems to drag, is because they took the time to world build Tural by introducing us to the many races, and how they interact with each other. I think this is part of why I enjoyed it, and the fact I enjoyed Wuk Lamat as a character. The pace never bothered me because it was shiny an new, and we got to learn about the world we were exploring. The reed thing taught us about their culture. Also mimics the thoughts around beltane, and Eastre(ep) of the dawn celebrations.
The problem with the world building in Tural though is that is both shallow and way too overblown. Each trial you do and the race it introduces, can be summed up pretty much by the explanation Erenville gives you before you get there. "Hey, the Pelupelu are honest traders, if a bit overzealous at times"... we didn't need 2+ hours of running around, doing trades and other stuff to learn that, yup, it is indeed like Erenville said.
The people of Tural aren't as nuanced as the game would like us to think. Yes, of course there are Pelupelu who aren't traders (Mablis (?) entire sidestory was about that), but overall, the writers decided to include several new races, peoples and cultures but didn't seem to have enough time, space or creativity to make them all unique and instead just painted them with broad strokes. TVTropes calls this Planet of Hats, where you have this entire race which is basically just one personality trait, split up into a multitude of bodies. And it's lazy writing.
Same, I really enjoyed this part. Also, for the first time ever in FFXIV I took my time and did all the sidequests between MSQ bits. This region was what I picked first, and the small bits adding to reed lore enhanced my enjoyment of it.
If they were doing the ritual every year, the crops would not have gotten to the point they were at, so the difference could have been much less.
If they skipped the celebration for two years things got a lot worse and they started to pay attention?
I can at least see that as an explanation anyway.
That was my read as well.
Well, the kind of official explanation given in some of the dialogs of the story is that the younger hanuhanu don't really know that the ritual has a practical use behind of the festive aspect, so they are not as focused on the maintenance of the boat and the rituals effect has been decreasing over the year. Until now, where the problem is exposed at once with the bad weather more or less exaggerating the problem with the crop growth.
I don’t like to admit it but I am one of these people who are “always fine”. But I honestly have no idea that I am doing it. Right now I am in therapy for this and much more 😊
The audience reaction to the reeds makes sense to me at least. CBU3 tried to use themes and ideas so they didn't have to explain the subject in detail, some people couldn't relate. I think I'd prefer that they don't feel a need to over explain things when the dialogue is already as long as it is. Maybe an easier to digest theme would help?
at 17:46, you have the video of the elector saying she hasn't seen such effect from the festival since she was a little kid.
Which was when the Dawnservant was part of the ritual, iirc. Sounds like pure accident ;)
AYAYA!!!! New Vid!!! :D
Wok Lamat is a younger than 20 years old. She pretty much a child. Of course she putting up a front and pretending to be strong.
The problem I have with modern twists is so many people guess them now and the theory is repeated everywhere, that writers now seem to resort to really stupid plot twists just to surprise the audience
Unfortunately the writing in the reeds scene is far from an exception, Dawntrail is pretty much "suspension of disbelief" the expansion and it honestly put me off of most of the story. If the people on this continent had like more than a single combined braincell (often times WoL included) there straight up would be no story.
I don’t think that’s fair to the writing of different cultures. It’s more like all the different cultures have their own unique blind spots, like them not recognising the effect of the festival on crops because the original meaning of tradition was lost, just like how the horrors of war is being lost in younger generation due to 80 years of peace.
It plays nicely into the theme of Tuliyolal and why mixing cultures can be good and bad, which is played twice here: old vs new (festival dance vs Koana solution) and homogeneity vs diversity (tradition vs fresh set of eyes). Just because they do something different doesn’t mean they’re stupid, it just means their worldview is fundamentally different
I knew the stakes in DT would be lower but putting on a festival to make the frogs happy was not on my cards
I kinda think "it's not been written properly" is the theme for this whole expansion, really.
In regards to narrative I think they're trying to find the right balance of flesh things out but not to the point of slowing the story progression down too far. It's not a particularly action oriented story, particularly at the start, so the level of player investment coming in will vary wildly. The reed thing didn't bother me, but I can see it leaning closer to just trying to have a cool moment.
I get what you're saying Mike but I'm never going to act like an explanation being in a line of dialogue within the main quest as not being obvious enough. If you expect an understanding of the story you don't get to just skip what you think might not be important, especially when the game has used throwaway lines for critical plot points multiple times previously
I can understand the dislike for Dawntrail, but I certainly don't hate or despise it with the vitriol a vocal group seems to. I'm not finished quite yet, but I've found it pretty enjoyable, and a nice change of pace.
Finish first and hear the VA towards the end. You'll see
if the boat (which is the aetherical focus of the ritual) has fallen into disrepair, it would make the ritual far far less effective. i am confused how in the world you are confused.
Wuk is the pivotal point to this expansion, too much so that if you dont like her, you dont like the expansion
The story*
In a way you are right, but would argue, that Wuk is not it. The character is fine, even if she is no better than that. Putting her into every single cutsceen and quest however is not. She is neither deep nor enjoyable enough to carry this much weight, so while I liked the character, by mid-Act 2 I was overdosed and wanted it to end.
Agreed. Thankfully, I like Wuk Lamat so I enjoyed the story.
While I enjoyed the story overall. The loss of the msq writer from shadowbringer/endwalker can really be felt. I know she's some sort of "supervisor" but she's not writing the text herself. Wonder why.
She wanted to move up and her performance qualified her for the role. They had no reason to refuse. And they may have lost her entirely had they strong armed her in to staying in that position
The hyper-positivity has fallen over to the cringe side. I am not against positive messages, but every other conversation is about "friends, love, peace, be happy, be happy, let's be happy, are you happy yet?" it's all just too much IMO. The entire expansion felt like a Saturday morning kids cartoon my 4-year-old watches. I think I was silently hoping for a more mature, gritty story about how "real" things are when you are not the superhero, being praised at every turn.
The issue for me is that FF14's storytelling has become stale, as I feel it just relies on the "friendship and working together solves everything" solution. I honestly want a major city or several main zones (Uldah/Than?) to be destroyed, resulting in massive rebuilding works across the world, and the area in question becomes an ultra-difficult endgame zone that only parties of people can traverse (via party finder) to help crafters and gathers rebuild the zones. I know they did something similar on a smaller scale, but for me, the game needed something like this to freshen things up.
I still play and love the game, but am holding onto hope for the stories in this game to become more mature, and there are real consequences to betrayal, crime and permanence to death etc.
Sorry for the ramble, had to get this onto the page as it's been bugging me for ages lol
I concur. The best parts of the game are the ones focusing on politics and how nations conduct themselves. I am hoping that the nest expansion will go back to Eorzea - we still haven't seen Gelmorra properly, and the War of the Magi could be explored in detail (new zones could easily be added for Gelmorra, the West Shroud, the isles of Vylbrand, and the ruins of Sil'dih and Mhach). The power of friendship has become "toxic positivity," telling people to be happy "because." It is honestly infuriating.
I want another Sorrow of Werlyt (coincidentally, I'm told that he also wrote Dawntrail - how the two stories are so totally different in quality is a mystery). I want another Parting Glass. I want more of Fordola's story in post SB.
EW began this trend towards "happy, happy, be happy!" with its Meteion stuff, and Dawntrail is the end result of that.
sage advice: "be yourself" smh
I was a compulsive liar as a kid. It was a defence mechanism I think. But yeah, i'd tell the most blatant obvious lies. After a few years of calling myself out for it I've really managed to tone it back.
Preach saying how the reed should have gone... is already how the storyline went? Like the hrothgar man who helps rebuild the boat talks about how the younger generation have forgotten the meaning, and the hanu leader talks about how they've been half-assing the festival for years. I don't know, the reed storyline seemed fine to me, I had no problems with it.
This, man tried to fix a story, by telling it to do what it already did
I can back up what Mike is saying about the amount of effort a person should have to put into a story.
For context, I am a story executive in the film industry. It is my job to read a script and understand it and find ways for the writer to improve it, no matter how poorly written, complex, or convoluted it is. I also oversee literally tens of thousands of screenplays via contest submissions, where I need to very quickly understand a project’s concept.
On top of that, FFXIV is, for the most part, the only game I play. I’ve played the entire MSQ twice and have read plenty of supplementary materials. While playing Dawntrail, I clicked on every single optional MSQ NPC. I’ve done that for all other expansions via NG+ as well. Finally, I also found Dawntrail good, but not great. For various reasons, I was consistently invested in and focused on the narrative. I’d give it three out of four stars, a thumbs up in the old Ebert scale.
Even with all of that experience and commitment, I had trouble understanding the logic of the festival. Yes, I can parse it out. For the most part, it makes sense. However, no audience member should need to stop and figure out that level of minutia.
The artistic experience is a three-party process. You have the writer(s), the audience member, and the art itself. Some base level of engagement from all parties is necessary. If a player is not paying attention, then that’s on them. Conversely, the narrative holds the burden of efficiently explaining details. It is the responsibility of the narrative to direct our point of view towards a prominent, efficient, and engaging explanation.
At the same time, it is possible for one party to overcompensate. You don’t want a writer directly explaining their story on twitter, you don’t want a story recapping everything every five minutes, and you don’t want a player stopping to work things out. If you had to stop and figure this out, you did too much. Complexity does not necessitate impenetrability. The Godfather doesn’t stop for a minute so that you can understand everything.
In short, a player should organically learn mechanical details simultaneous to experiencing the progression of more important things, like key plots and character arcs.
And, to be clear, I’m not saying Mike has maintained perfect focus in this regard. Mike is very often asking about Solution 9 or the Western town. Within the narrative itself, he shouldn’t even know about those things. That is a distraction he is adding. However, that’s not really his fault. Yoshi-P played loose with spoilers this expansion, and it has negatively impacted the experiences of the first wave of players.
I’m interested to see how future players feel about Dawntrail. Current players are more spoiled, as they watch Fan Fest trailers and the like. Conversely, players going through old expansions skip those videos.
That doesn’t fix Dawntrail’s issues, but it will lower the cognitive load of a player entering this expansion.
Y'all reading too much into the reeds thing. They just made them grow that much to make it super obvious to the player that the ritual worked. It's not well done but it's not some conspiracy.
Surprised you didn't mention the dungeon at all.
While I enjoyed going through it, as soon as our repaired boat showed up it was like, why did we do any of that?
Surely it would have been faster if we'd all pitched in to repair the boat...
Even before that, Alisaie is at the front of the boat while Bakool Ja Ja is right there sending beasts over to attack us. Rather than just staring blankly, maybe she could have cast a few spells to attack him instead of just letting him do whatever he wants and damage our boat??
Any Brit that has grown up in the UK and complains about Wuk Lamat's ignorance of their dad's Kingdom's cultures, but who can't pronounce Welsh names...hmmmmm?
Honestly I didnt even notice how badly written the reeds scene was because the entire story of helping Wuk Lamat run a bunch of errands was already mind-numbingly boring.
They clearly explained they neglected the boat and stuff and didn't know how linked it was to the crops. Not sure how it's such a big deal lol.
The problem is not that the solution is bad.
The problem is that we had a „biological“ problem and she decided to hold this festival and it somehow turned out as the solution.
It just felt like a hug mcguffin to me.
I just wished that we had more hints to why this could work.
@@Colaschnittchen This is a fantasy environment where the element of aether - a living spiritual force that resides in all things - is as real as the air or the dirt. Of course a ritual could be as valid a solution as a chemical fertilizer.
If 14 players can ignore the sundering scene in Endwalker being just a representative of what historically happened, I believe the same players would also see the reed scene as a representative to what should be happening that is 1 month growth represented in 1 second. LoL
Almost like a lot of the "bad writing" complaints exist only to justify their behavior and make it seem objective. You could poke similar holes in Shadowbringers and Endwalker stories at any point, it's extremely obnoxious to see everyone being an expert on writing with Dawntrail.
I apoligize if I come off as angry but I am. I loved this game for its story and this is pathetic. I cant believe Yoshi P greenlighted this trainwreck.
Angry is where I am too. I'm currently on level 98 MSQ and have despised everything so far. I hate Wuk Lamat as a character: she's naive to a ridiculous degree - no sheltered princess would ever be THIS sheltered - and everything always works out for her. With the reeds, she has no plan and just want to cheer people up instead of figuring out a solution: Koana immediately looks for one, but Lamat doesn't have an immediate answer and just proceeds to piss about... which is exactly what she needs to do to solve the problem, what luck. *sigh* This is the most egregious case of the story bending over backward for her to succeed at everything, but it is far from the only one.
There is also one particular moment Preach hasn't reached that made me FURIOUS. There is a moment of lorebreaking that is shocking. I am pretty sure that there will be a twist later that explains this lorebreak, but the problem I have with it is that not one character comments on it. Either the writers *don't know* that they are doing something with major consequences for worldbuilding, or they are intentionally making characters into morons when they should immediately spot that something is fishy.
Furthermore, the narrative once things "get good" is still so heavily centered on Wuk Lamat and her naive "let's all be friends" approach to governance that I can't get invested. There are also some major logic gaps so far - if the villains behaved at all villainously or competently, everybody would be dead several times over - and these take me out of the story.
I am honestly feeling that this is worse than ARR. It isn't even that close - for all the awful pacing decisions and moral simplicity of ARR, it had Gaius (a strong villain) and a good early leveling story of a normal adventurer learning the ropes. DT is reliant upon every character being very, very stupid to even function.
Just finished the story I thought it was really enjoyable
How dare you enjoy the story! What are you?! WOKE La'or Not!
You're not allowed to have that opinion, sorry buddy.
@@OTOBIOhazordWhat about Bawoke Ja Ja?? D:
I have not finished the story. I don't think I will do that anytime soon either. I'm probably going to skip the rest which is a first ever since I started playing FF14.
Dawntrail's plot started loosing me in the run-up to the first trial, piled up the feeling with unearned attempt at building redemption and sympathy, and lost me completely with the second villain reveal that came out of nowhere and completely against how the character was presented up to that point.
Wuk Lamat is a shallow bundle of tired shonen tropes with lazy and oddly paced character arc ( Kona is a MUCH more interesting character with better development at fraction of the dialogue and screen time ). She is also ever-present to the point of pushing other actors off the stage. Krile's grandfather plot thread? Barely touched. Erenvile's past? Same. The Twins? Might as well be not there.
I get we have to do world-building and character setup for a new story. I don't get why do we have to do it while joined at the hip to a rather boring naive child. And I don't get why we have to pretend all the past story didn't happen either. At lest when we had to babysit Alphinaud back in Heavensward, there were prominent foils in Estinien and Ysale and the group played well of each other. This story has Wuk Lamat, Wuk Lamat, and Wuk Lamat. Lyse in Stormblood was a better lead character, and I loathed Lyse back when Stormblood came out.
It feels like with the end of Endwalker the dev team somehow lost the ability to write a competent, internally coherent story. And that's sad.
This is the worst experience I had playing this game since ARR patches in the times before the quests were pruned. I can't quite believe I just wrote that sentence tbh.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. It's good that some folks did. I hope we will all be able to do that again with the next expansion.
MSQ would have been much better if they ended the contest story at the level 93 trial. A dungeon followed by a trial would have been a fitting way to close the story arc, and that would have left 7 levels worth of quests to flesh out the "real" story of Dawntrail instead of just 3 or 4.
Also Wuk Lamat bad but I would be beating a dead horse at this point.
don't take games too seriously. after HW i took stormblood too seriously and i hated it. don't make the same mistake with DawnTrail.
After I understood that Wuk was quit literally a sheltered princess it was clear to me and she made sense. However I am an old fart so the story was fine to me I am getting to the point where shit has to be on fire for me to even be bothered.
Tell me the origin of gift giving on christmas, of putting stockings up for St. Nick, trick or treat, st patricks day and leprechauns and mint drinks and getting wasted, easter bunny and doing a hunt for eggs filled with candy or small gifts. Can you? Is it REALLY that strange to have traditions with unknown origins? Is it really that strange that most of them wouldnt know?? Bro, no, it isnt.
"Wuk Lmao has matured" by surpassing a child . . . wow . . . but i guess you have to set the bar that low if you want to paint Wuk Lmao in a good light.
The people who think Koana should be Dawnservant don't understand why he actually shouldn't be. I like him way more Wuk Lamat and I immediately recognized that he would not be a great ruler.
Progress is only meaningful when it doesn't trample people underneath it.
Yeah, him getting put in charge as he is now would mean culture and history getting completely trampled in the name of progress.
He'd be the type to push everyone to eat archon loaf because it's a more efficient means of getting nutrients than spending hours making complex dishes.
You literally get a “bro really doesn’t understand the importance of cultural heritage and tradition” moment lol. He is a cool character and I love his voice though. He is too logical to a fault.
@@normalmighty not in the name of progress, but in the name of Sharlayan. I wonder why nobody mentions his fixation on a completely foreign nation, which imo is a far worse trait for a ruler than liking technology.
He isn't trampling anyone underneath him... his innovations would have positive effects on the nation. There are many other issues with him, but his focus on progress is not one of them.
It was bad writing but maybe since we see there it get amplified but idk. Hard to argue a lot of the early story was very meh
Mike has already done the level 93 trial so this won't be a spoiler for him, but Erenvile's pointy-thingy doodad that led to Valigarmanda was a "Urianger doohicky" moment for me. Other than being a thing that could solve any situation in the world that required looking for someone whose aether you know, it also pushed the story along without any previous setup. It was a pointless time wasting quest at best or a badly written, convoluted solution at worst. It maybe be something very minor, and perhaps I missed something explaining the device, but it did lessen my investment in the story as a whole from that point onward.
Not really a doodad imo. It was/is his job to track down and find animals/beasts, so he should have the gear to do that. Tracking beasts/animals with aether feels like a smart thing to do in this world. The only "weird" thing about it was the way it looked, but i put that into gaming visualisation purpose.
That actually feels natural but I feel a lot of people myself included went “that’s dumb” when they show it was the pointer cursor of old FF. It could had been cute but at that moment you’re either kinda sour on the story than when they do humor like that it only exasperates you. They could have used the old googles they used in ARR to the same effect.
That's like complaining that an engineer has a calculator or a screwdriver with them. He's a gleaner, his whole job is to document everything there is about an area they explore.
The only reason his device was used was because we didn't have a Y'shtola to tell it by a glance. The function in the story is exactly the same, except here it serves to show Erenville's competence and establish him more as a character that should be there.
Nah. Reed argument is stupid and people are just being nitpicky because they expect the story to be flawless and every tiny descrepancy is ran over with a fine tooth comb and torn apart. That's what I think. The reed stuff is irelevant, the Hanu storyline is more so to characterize the kind of person Wuk Lamat is, not to hyper analyze a culture that people will forget about the moment they hit the next zone.
In the grand scheme of things, it is irrelevant. But it doesn't absolve the writing team. There are small things that could have made this story beat *miles* better, and actually good.
They are being nitpicky because it's a new expac with 0 investment in the setting, characters, or story, so there's heavy lifting to be done, and it sure as hell isn't being done by the actual "playing" experience that is watching cutscenes back to back
Msq has always been embarrassingly bad but people put up with it because they were invested. It's been a decade and it's still a slog, and somehow this expac is just as long as endwalker with less gameplay. At least the quality of the battle content is good, but this surely will be remembered as stormblood 2: great content and forgettable msq experience
i agree. i didnt even notice the plothole. i have some issues with the story but its about actually important things
@@vaan_ "Msq has always been embarrassingly bad" yeah ffxiv is well known for its terrible story
@@MidnightEkaki MSQ is not the story, it's the playing experience. That's why everyone says they have to go "through the msq".
You understand exactly what I mean, you're just being disingenuous.
People love saying ffxiv is a jrpg first, but when you compare it to literally any other it becomes clear it's absolutely terrible. People hate playing the msq, that's why when the story doesn't land (titan quests in ARR, moogles in HW, almost all of Gyr Abania in SB, trolley/kholusia talos in SHB, 2nd half of Labyrinthos in EW, and now a lot of DT) people massively complain, because the actual *playing* experience of the msq makes for one of the worst rpgs ever made. The dungeons and trials are good, but they're way too few and far between, and this is where solo instances should do the heavy lifting, and in Dawntrail they just weren't enough.
The quality of writing is a hit and a miss, some parts are good while others fall flat. Almost like there was a lack of passion or understanding(as ironic as that is) about the world the new writers are writing for. Not only from the writing stand point, but also from some of the Voiced scenes as well. I still enjoyed DT because I took it from the angle of My(Characters) Story is to just Mentor/Watch Wuk on their journey, assisting only where necessary allowing them to do w/e they want so long as it doesn't harm others or the star we fought to protect. While doing that I spent my time exploring the zones, talking to npcs, reading chat bubbles, taking pictures, going on hunts, and so forth. Being an adventurer on my own footing. So, with that perspective in mind that I went with, I did enjoy DT. Now I'm not saying this is the right way to play; I don't expect others to play the game this way(many do not), or as a means to defend the quality in writing that took place.
IMO, Ishikawa should have written the base expansions story with assistance from the new writers so they know how to handle/deal with situations better for when they hand over the reigns fully into the patch cycles onward.....but I have a feeling that's exactly what happened with the patch cycle in EW and why that was so divisive. I look forward to the DT patch cycles? But tbh I've written off the story since the Hyd/Zod arc was wrapped up. I just want good rewarding content expected in a MMORPG. A story was done for those interested in the last 10 years, and we got NG+. No need to continue making a seemingly "never-ending story." BUT all that is imo, and I know they won't stop the MSQ so please don't bother with that lol
Edit: TL;DR The MSQ was a Hit and a Miss for me at points, but went on my own adventure to make up for the babysitting we had to do until Wuk matured.