@Rc3651 my headcanon rp for that dungeon is that despite what I was asked to do, I went in trying to negotiate some kind of peace with them, but was unable to because they attacked me on sight and I was forced to defend myself.
Hey Preach, not sure if you are aware or not. Ishikawa is not the MSQ writer for Dawntrail. She stepped down after 6.0 Endwalker, and went into more of a management position instead of heading the MSQ writing. That means she was also not the one who wrote the MSQ for the Endwalker patch series. Regardless of the overall story of Dawntrail, I think what I notice the most with Dawntrail writing, is that the moment to moment dialogue between people is just garbage compared to how it was in Endwalker or Shadowbringers. There is so much telling, instead of using subtle ways to show us what is happening which is what made the writing in Endwalker and Shadowbringers feel so good.
yeah I agree, the scions are void of personality and the dialogue this time around is very basic. The story itself is good but the way it's being told is very subpar compared to previous expansions
"There is so much telling, instead of using subtle ways to show us what is happening" Remember when Thancred sacrificed his last chance to meet Minfilia to hold Ranjit at bay, we got this really emotional scene after the fight where he just accepts he's never going to see her again. We didn't need narration, we didn't need Thancred to tell us what went through his head, we didn't need one of the other scions to go "see WoL, what Thancred just felt was xyz". That's how the scene would have been written by the current talent. It's night and day.
@@socram3254 i think they do get Better in the second half (or at least they are USED better), but for the trial of the dawnservant itself it felt more like they were there because you needed a full party for the dungeons at times
@@iosonotom1010 Which doesn't make sense at all, Alphi and Alisae have so much wisdom they could give to Wuk Lamat, but they literally never speak. Such a missed opportunity. On top of that, there is a lot of discussion here about Wuk Lamat's glow up into defeating Bakool Ja Ja. Regardless of what side you stand on regarding that, what would have been significantly better, is if we, the Warrior of Light, who Wuk Lamat is traveling with, just spared with her a few times in solo duties. After her first "attack" on Bakool Ja Ja in Hanu, imagine if we got a set of 3 solo duties of us sparing with her as we progressed through the early MSQ leading up to her fight wit Bakool Ja Ja. Each time we do one of these sparing events it progressively becomes harder and harder as she learns to use new abilities and techniques on us. Not only would it have helped break up the monotony of the early MSQ, but it would have also fit EXTREMELY well with the story itself. The early MSQ just feels like a ton of missed opportunity. I am fine with another character taking the "spotlight" for a period of time, but I really would have liked if we her traveling companions actually interacted with her in meaningful ways. Alisae and Alphi have so much wisdom of people and cultures, and Alphi learned so much with his growth in the Crystal Braves. Alisae reminds of Wuk Lamat in many ways, they both want to save everyone they can and rush headstrong into battle every time. But we literally never get any meaningful dialogue between any of these characters, in fact, 90% of the time they are literally removed from the group just so it's Wuk Lamat and the Warrior of Light.
@@CloudedInSanity I PERSONALLY liked the Wuk fight and found It believable enough (especially considering that we ourselves did way "worse" with Zenos/Shinryu back in stormblood), but having a mini training arc with her would have been cool (preferably an instance, but even a cutscene like with lyse back in SB would have also been fine...maybe a bit less over the top...)! Also, agreed with the scions (e.g.: alphinaud and alisaie are PERFECT to talk about estranged siblings reconciling, or to draw parallels to Wuk e Koana, given that they are also a pair of siblings where one is more action oriented and the other scholarly). I overall liked DT a lot (even in the first part i liked the "feel" of the contest and exploring tural and its people), but there are a lot of missed opportunities (additionally, while I can't fault DT specifically, given that it's a recurring issue in XIV, they REALLY should re-think their quest design to spice it up a bit; for instance the train section to get to Vanguard seemed taylor made to have a turret section like the air force one GATE, but instead we did all the trite fetch quests before and the actual fun part was relegated to just a cutscene)
I didn't mind Bakool Ja Ja as both a character and a villain, but found that his 'redemption' and subsequent forgiveness for the rest of the story was entirely undermined by just how comically evil he was presented as for the first half of the story. Abducting Wuk Lamat, threatening to kill multiple people and purposefully unleashing Valigarmanda, a creature that had been previously established to have caused untold suffering in the past, so much so that the scars of it's destruction are still visible many decades later. I did enjoy the backstory of his people and empathised with his motivations and struggles, but felt that his portrayal as a villian should have been toned down to make his character work even slightly.
I agree. I found how cartoonishly villainous he was just doesn't quite match up with why he was doing what he was doing. I know he was desperate, but he had this air of bravado and racist superiority about him. He seemed to take pleasure in his despicable acts he was doing during the rite of succession. It didn't look anything like desperation and more like Saturday morning cartoon villain.
It's interesting when you compare Bakool Ja Ja's character development with Zoraal Ja's because their character arcs were going in opposite directions. While Bakool Ja Ja started off as stereotypically villainish as he can be and was redeemed later, Zoraal Ja was stoic and mysterious when we were first introduced to him. The only things we knew about him at the time was that he was Gulool Ja Ja's first and only trueborn son and that his motivations for the tournament were wanting to rule with war and combat to "keep the peace." Then around the same time as Bakool Ja Ja's redemption was happening, we start to see more of Zoraal Ja and his "true" motivations for chasing after the golden city...and I won't go into too many details at this point due to spoilers.
Cartoonishly is a perfect way to describe a lot of things that happen on this expansion that works against what should be compelling characters and moments.
one of the reasons that the first 2 zones feel so long is because, in previous expansions you'd have part of the story for the first 2 zones, and then there'd be some kind of unpassible part and you'd come back later for the rest of the story (for example, kholusia in shadowbringers has the giant cliff that you don't get to go up until much later in the story), this has the effect that mobs and fates in one half of the zone are level 70-72 and the other half is like lvl 76-78. In dawntrail we finish the first 2 zones in one go pretty much, the only slight break is the pelupelu first then the giants after you've done urqopacha and the pelupelu and you do all that before the first dungeon, as a result, the entire zone stays in the 90-93ish range for mobs and fates. This doesn't really help with the problem of pacing but does help explain why its so long to do the first 2 zones this time. For the Wuk Lamat solo fight against Bakool Ja Ja, i put it down to dynamis, i don't think its ever explicitly stated that's the reason why she's so much stronger but i felt like it was implied by the amount of LB spam you can do and its been established that LB is related to dynamis. Although i do agree on the face of it, it seems rather sudden that she's suddenly so strong
I expected them to use dynamis to explain the fight as well as soon as the duty basically told you to abuse it. It never got brought up after that as far as I can remember though, so it's just headcanon to me.
I'm watching this and when you said "nearly unharmed" for the solo duty, i flashed back to how much I almost died. Lol I lived on a sliver of life for most of that solo duty. 🤣
I've only ever played whm and a little bit of dancer so when these solo duties pop up where you play another character using their job I always have such a bad time 😅
The description of the MSQ story as both rushed *and* too drawn out reflects my own experience. This isn't to say some of us did not want drawn-out world-building - we did. Dawntrail was to be a return to our roots and ARR and a starting over, so I was fully prepared for it. However, the world-building we got was too superficial. To take one example. The best zone for world-building imo was Shaaloani, a sort of remade Thanalan. The zone had a great vibe and great visuals throughout. However, even here, if we compare the stories to those told in the early Ul'dah/Thanalan quest chain in ARR, Shaaloani comes up short. For example, the lumber incident - where we "hear the concerns of the local people" in exchange for taking their lumber to buiild more railroad tracks. Contrast that with ARR in which we actually *stop* the rich of Ul'dah from pushing people out of a small seaside town. With the implication that this battle for Thanalan is far from settled and will continue (and it does) and will not be easily solved, that it requires us taking a position and a stand on it. Which we do. As does Nanamo. In contrast Dawntrail has us go on what sometimes felt like a political listening tour, and here we seem to con the locals into doing what we need them to do - hand over that lumber. Complexities and conflict were too often smoothed over, long-term problems solved with magical Sharlayan seeds, or a little talk over the campfire, as long as leaders drop by once in a while and show the locals that they "feel their pain" all is good. It moved uncomfortably close to parody for me here. it wasn't terrible but it didn't sit quite right with me. That said I intend to return to Shaaloani to complete all the side quests. In some areas I found that the sidequests was where were I got the nuance the MSQ sometimes sidestepped. And the fact that this was all filtered through Wuk Lamat's personal journey - the alpaca test, the trading test for example - was what imo overshadowed the chance to fill out these zones and let us explore them as we did in the past MSQs - connecting with larger themes and other people (Scions etc) but lettng the zones take more of a center stage. The change in focus - Wuk Lamat - seemd to overshadow the areas we traveled through and even harmed her character arc, since it came off in places as narcissism - as if what was important about Urqopacha or Kozama'uka was what they could contribute to Wuk's personal journey. I could be wrong, likely it worked for others, but I could never shake off that first impression.
Y'know what I'm gonna do the same thing, because i did start taking interest in some of the aether current side quests in the area. Some of them were a bit simple, but they really gave me a better feeling of the area. And well, yeah they didn't filter everything through Wuk Lamat.
I see the sentiment wanting to further explore those "issues" and you're right they are showing just enough for the MSQ to move along because the focus is Wuk Lamat's journey. They delegated the more deeper stuff to the side quests. Its probably a dilemma of pacing and budget since they went with the dual story approach and chose what they thought best fit the flow of the MSQ.
@@StormierNik Nice! There are some interesting stories and characters here, and the zones and music are some of the best. I just don't want to leave these areas unexplored so I plan to do them all.
There's also the thing with Bakool JaJa where Thancred and Urianger tell you that he pestered them through the dungeon but backed away when confronted, so when Wuk Lamat confronts him after he gets beat by Zoraal Ja, he's not in top shape.
Pacing is the biggest issue. Quest design is the 2nd biggest issue. I'm actually fine with the story they told here. It just didn't need to be 50 hours and 100 quests long. There isn't that much that happens in the MSQ to fill that amount of space, so it just feels SUPER padded out and slow. If Dawntrail was 60 quests and ~25-30 hours, it'd be fine. the problem is it feels like 60 quests that were artificially elongated to 100... and there's nothing to justify that. There's NO gameplay in the MSQ that's worth anything outside of dungeons/trials.
From the last patch of Endwalker (with her shaky hands after the parrot boss) and through the whole story with the way she talked about herself vs her brothers, I've always thought she was always this strong, she just didn't believe in herself. That's why when she gained confidence and defeated Bakool Ja Ja, it didn't really surprise me, I felt like they were building up this arc since last expansion
I assume and hope that they give more work to Bakool Jaja in the patches. Similar to how the Chais had to further redeem and develop themselves after living as Eulmorans.
I don’t understand the criticism with Bakhool’s decision to utilize kidnapping the dad though. His team lost the trial so in my head I’m thinking, “ok he’s fucked from being able to reach the golden city unless he takes the stone by force from Wuk Lamat or Koana. So I think it makes sense for him to act right then and there while they were still in the area and try to steal Wuk Lamats stone
I like the introduction to new cultures and customs, but that deserves better than the all over the place pacing of this expansion. We solve complicated issues in like 2 minutes, but spend 20 doing fetch quests…it really feels like they did not know what to do for story in Dawntrail. Honestly, the battle content is what has kept me at all interested.
About Bakool Ja Ja, while I think his story could've been handled better, one thing I really l really liked was when Wuk told you something like "He must answer for his crimes like anyone else, but right now my duty as future dawnservant is to assure that no one is desperate enough to do what he did".
@KnightOfCarim2 that's just kind of an FFXIV thing, Gaius didn't answer for his crimes, too. Fordola went to prison but was shortly released (which is better than nothing, I actually think it was good, but still). I'd be interested to see these people stand trial or something, but it's not news in FFXIV to quickly forgive crimes. That is something we see a lot, not only in FF but in Japanese media. Rather than going to prison, it's making amends by taking action and helping out. This is not how it works in real life, of course, but I dunno I guess I just have a soft spot for villains who turn into good people.
@FelipeCarvalho-my3uv point of order- last I checked, Fordola was never released. They just allowed her to do occasional military service as part of her sentence.
In fact, Fordola herself does not want to be released at all. She recognizes she messed up when she took the stance she did and cannot redeem herself. That Ananta forced the issue.
@@FelipeCarvalho-my3uv I liked when one of the job role quests in Endwalker - the one where you travel with Hien to a small village - confronts this issue by showing how frustrated the local people are that Yotsuyu never paid for the crimes she had committed against them. Even though in her case that was literally impossible since she only regained her memory close to her own death. I can't argue with mercy over justice as a general rule, but it's nice when they show that it isn't always simple.
He pretty much got 80% of his prediction correct. Only thing he really missed was who brings Solution 9 to the source. I would say he's close enough to not have to pay up the 50 subs.
@@MegaAndyGG I really enjoyed the second half, I would probably say that zone 5 was almost perfect for me, it hits most of the time right (very fun to explore and etc) and the budget for VA on that zone was high as hell (easily had more VA than zone 1 and 2 together lol). I think I enjoyed the story a lot from level 97 to 100, the other half could use a lot of improvement.
@@MegaAndyGG No, it is not. DT second half is literally a bad retell of Shadowbringers with Sphen being discount Emet. Second half is also what completely ruins Wuk Lamat as that is the point where it becomes clear she was the OC of the main writer as they force her really, really hard into everyone's faces no matter how huge of a detriment it was for the story. Like Krile and Erenville being relegated to a 10 minutes scene when the second half is basically all about them. I didn't hate Wuk at the start, I understood it was her part of the story, so even I disliked it, I still got it. Second half is where I realize the main writer was the embodiment of that Simpsons meme "And when Wuk Lamat is not around, all the other characters should ask: Where is Wuk Lamat?".
Good ideas badly executed is how I'd sum up Dawntrail. The Mamook twist is really powerful (and hats off to the fantastic VAs) but the heel turn is a bit too sudden and unearned given the horrendous things Bakool has done and even seemed to enjoy doing.
Personally i enjoyed DTs story overall unlike some but one of my criticisms is how quick he turned its a pet peeve of mine in stories where they turn a bad guy good too quickly and when they dont deserve it yet. Im ok with it happening just wish they took more time with it
Bakool ja ja was basically like when the child of a fanatical cult being told he was God incarnate and that he's born off the sacrifice of hundreds of children. That's gonna understandably mess someone up
@@iantaakalla8180 I would say different motivations. Bakool was raised to believe he was the last hope of his people while Vauthry grew up flat out entitled.
the turn of Bakool Ja Ja really worked for me, the voice actor sold the agony of being trapped in this awful system so well, my opinion of him completely 180'd
I'm not sure how 'secret' their eugenics program even is because before you went to Yak T'el, the Pelupelu seemed to allude (among themselves) to some kind of heavy' history there before you boarded the dirigible and I don't think a tasty taco recipe is what they were referring to
I was enjoying the MSQ until the giant zone. I run roulettes between quests, do fates, and play pretty slowly, and I was enjoying the world building. But then the conquering giant group was introduced...and pacified in the same scene. Then Valigarmanda was taken down almost immediately. And then, as much as I liked the Mamook story, everything resolved so quickly. I'm only at 95 in the MSQ, but I hate how every time it feels like there will be some stakes it just goes away so quickly and easily. ARR might have been slow world building, but it introduced the Ascians and Garlean invasion by the time you level your starting region. Stormblood might have meandered, but we had a clear threat/enemy/stakes. I was all up for a low stakes story. So far, this one feels like it's allergic to having stakes. I'm just hoping it gets more interesting in the 2nd half.
IMO the whole "low stakes" point went out the window when basically the first thing out of Zoraal Ja's mouth was a promise to wage the bloodiest war of conquest he could. And without spoiling too much, the stakes are pretty damn high by the end of the MSQ.
I got that too and because I actually really like Wuk Lamat and world building. Despite the weird pacing (lingering when not needed and rushing when more time would be more satisfying), and the absurdity that their father raised them without cultural or history lessons, I actually enjoyed the first half of the game as an adventure game better than the second half. The second half fed my nerd urges to dissect the ethics and functionality of magic systems. Which was also great. I also enjoyed the slap of reality to the optimism we just learned in the first half and was really interested in the “can we stick to our convictions?” Undertone. But honestly I was disappointed that the second half ramped the threat up so much. I feel like it would have been better to have a lower stakes threat for the start of a new era. Give it room to grow. I honestly think there was too much to put into a single expansion but not enough for two and they had some things they needed to set up some very specific threads so they just mashed these two together and the pacing ended weird because of it. In ARR we only temporarily saved Eorzea and were barely a character more of the muscle. The real main characters was Eorzea, the leaders and the scions. HW had us more of a side character but we saved two nations from a long conflict. SB Lyse was the main character and we liberated two nations. SHB and EW are the two expansions where wol is the main character and you save 2 worlds in 2 realities in one and the entire remaining universe in another. It would have been nice for the stakes to be back to ARR or HW level in Dawn Trail.
Bakool was just written so badly at the start. They really wanted him as the red herring villain so bad by just making him as horrible as possible when I feel they could of easily executed him being an asshole still and an antagonist while also giving him while better teasing what he is really going through. I enjoyed where it went (Minus how quickly he switched over to be buddy buddy with Wuk) it's just the starting point didn't really make sense for how his character is. The worst part of it all is how obvious it is he wouldn't likely be the big bad either yet it feels like they made him more cartoonishly evil solely as a way of trying to get people to think he would be the big threat.
I think viewing fights as exchanges of power is dull, and most stories that do that suffer from it. It's one of the reasons I like JJK so much - pretty much every fight in that show is won by a trick, some clever exploit found by a character, or otherwise. A lot of the times FFXIV does this too, where we set ourselves up to handle a situation well, though the actual fights are just gameplay so it's a little wierd. point being, that moment was really satisfying for me because I just wasn't thinking about the power of the characters or that expectation. Wuk Lamat hit a new stride and found a flow that let her almost spam LB's, and as she says "I'm not sure I could win again if we fought again, or if he was confident". To me, their intent was that bakool ja ja really didn't have his head in the game and now that Wuk Lamat did, she had the edge. But this brings up something that was a through thread of the expansion for me - incredibly important details and context framed through the presentation as less important. Sure they 'accounted' for a lot of the complaints people have had, but how many people skimmed those explanations, or just didn't really feel them hit because their just a little bit of text as almost an afterthought? This is where the step down in amount of VA really hurts Dawntrail I think. it feels like they also weren't quite sure where the really heavy hitting parts of the story were in many parts, and that's where some of the pacing issues come from. Like, we took valigarmanda much more seriously than the story did, I think, and that made the pacing feel weird in that section.
The lack of VA is definitely people being spoiled by EW which had the most VA because Yoship wanted it to be epic as an ending and now we're back to normal amounts of VA in MSQ. Valigarmanda and their like will definitely be explored as the patch series trials most likely.
Tbh the quick resolution of the Mamool area made sense to me given just how much they follow Bakool JaJa. The second he says he’s open to what the outsiders say they’re willing to follow the proposal because they believe in his decisions so much. Edit: also ngl Mike i definitely appreciate creating a community where earnest discussion can be had but stream chat really has become insufferable the past few days with a lot of ppl who clearly have no intention of actually engaging in the conversation just shouting ppl down for their opinions. The first time in a long time I've seriously considered just minimizing chat while you play.
Not only that, it was clear that at this point they were deeply weakened and dwindled. We turned their previous "blessed sibling" into mulch in the Wanderer's Palace dungeon along a bunch of their young gloryseekers without so much as a thought. When we see the Mamook towns, they are broken down, half-empty. This is a population completely on the bring, going on the last fumes of sunken cost fallacy. They straight up are looking for permission to just stop, but don't dare doing it on their own accord because they might get shunned in their community. When two Promises from the royal family arrive and offer help, and their Blessed Sibling is also on their side, that's a chance they simply can't ignore.
There's a quote that summarises it really well. "When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor" - Paulo Friere Not only is Bakool Ja Ja, the figurehead of their entire cultish obsession speaking out, but it also comes coupled with the knowledge that their problems *can be fixed*. Their lives *can be improved*, and steps are immediately taken to do so. They no longer had to dream of oppression as a tool of liberation. Completely agree on the state of chat though. I mentioned that I don't feel as safe in the in-game community with the undeniable transphobia around Wuk Lamat's English VA, and got jumped by several people who insisted that there was no transphobia at all. And then Bex banned someone for being blatantly homophobic less than 30 mins later.
The issue with the Wuk Lamat vs Bakuul JaJa fight for me is that it goes completely AGAINST the theme of the story. The entire expansion tells you that together you are stronger, friendship is magic, everyone needs to come together, share your vulnerabilities; even the Dawnservant needs to be two heads / people. But WukLamat (literally) sidelines the WoL and the scions, to have her big 1v1 battle in which she wins on her own by brute force (muh dynamis). Somehow even Bakuul Jaja himself portrays the theme better, by asking his friends to help out when he discovered he can't succeed on his own. The entire expansion's story has been a pretty poor experience for me, but shooting your own theme in the foot for a flashy scene is just amateur writing.
to be fair Bakool doesn't ask for their help, they come in because he's losing, during the fight Bakool tells them to leave and they reply for him to shut up and that the fate of Mamook is more important than his ego that single moment had more depth than most of the expac lol
Just finished the MSQ yesterday. Personally I think it is ok. But I feel like the Rite should have been the MSQ and the stuff afterwards Post MSQ. That would have probably paced it out better.
It was insane how she treated her father during that reveal, it was like, "Wow that's crazy, but really I'm the daughter of Gulool Ja Ja! K! Bye!" and literally fuckin just turns around and walks away. Hilarious, I was like holy shit at least say thank you for making the hard decision to give me up, or something, say ANYTHING to the poor guy ffs.. that scene was really a ball dropped massively, and I'm someone who liked the story in general otherwise.
Just to counter that point, because it is something I had to give a lot of thought to because my reaction was initially a lot like yours, Wuk Lamat never showed any interest in finding her biological father, she fully accepts the dawnservant as her father. She doesn't seem to have any conflict there, so it somewhat makes sense that she wouldn't want to linger on it.
@@rayneg7685I still think it’s a bit weird that she doesn’t acknowledge it to the degree that she does with how empathetic she is towards everyone that she meets. It’s something that weighed on him all these years, and I’d of liked to see them exchange just a few more words on it.
Bakool Ja Ja is the classic bully - acts all tough and pushes people around, but not because he wants to, but because he's scared and hopes to quickly display dominance so that nobody messes with him. So when Zoraal Ja checked his ego with a single swift kidney shot, he was already severely humbled. But coupled with even Wuk Lamat beating him up, he just completely had his sense of pride shattered and just ran off to the place where he'd felt safe since he was a child. And even then, we see him get a dressing down by his father who promptly exiles him. After all that, he truly is done with this whole eugenics nonsense - and so are the villagers, really. Their homes are in disrepair, their city is half-empty, they have completely destroyed their demographics for this foolish tradition, and it has failed again and again. It's not that we solve racism in 2 minutes - it's that we meet people that all but beg for someone to put a stop to this misery and we have a plan ready. A plan, by the way, only possible thanks to us resolving the crisis in Endwalker - these seed vaults were created to be used on whatever planets the Forum wished to colonize next as they would escape on the Moon. As for Wuk Lamat's power spike, this is where it'd be good for Mike to actually do the Warrior quests and learn that these kinds of sudden spikes of power and fury are very much part of the job and lore. Call it Dynamis, MANMODE, berserker rage or just plain old adrenaline, warriors keep going stronger and stronger the longer the battle goes on. We must remember that the world of FFXIV is inherently magical, even the simplest of attacks doesn't have that crazy shiny effects trail for no reason - all attacks we do are inherently magical. And then on top of that, they are further augmented by emotion (Dynamis), which is why people with strong convictions prevail over those whose resolve wavers. That is why another important piece of interactive storytelling were the multiple small LB1s that the scenario had us perform just to survive - it reads as Wuk Lamat over and over resolving herself to push forward and be better, a trial by fire against a foe she failed against before, but simply can not afford to fail against anymore. Make note, this was just an LB1 done many times over because she could not build up any more - plenty of characters have performed LB3s in similar scenarios, like Yugiri against Elidibus-Zenos at the end of Stormblood postgame patches, or even Papalymo empowering Yda/Lyse in a cutscene at the end of ARR (not to even mention our companions in the dungeons that pop LB2s/LB3s when they feel like it). It shows very clearly that though Wuk Lamat is getting stronger, she's hardly some unbeatable champion that some chatters seem to think she is, and she won't be competing against Alisaie for LB2s or LB3s any time soon. Contrary to the popular criticism in the comments of these videos, Dawntrail shows a LOT, not just tells - but you need to pay attention and actually participate.
I think if a player like Mike completely miss things then it'll be even worst for new players. IMO instead of hoping he becomes more knowledgable I think he gives a good perspective as a casual player. I think it's true that MSQ is best appreciated by people who understand lore and reads what's on the fcking screen. But if lots of players misunderstand the same thing, that's a problem in execution. I don't disagree that people miss things, but I'll argue that they missed alot in other expansions too but they still got the "vibe" of what's going on.
@@seekittycat While I understand the value of knowing what the "average" person thinks, I also think previous FF expansions have benefitted from an overwhelming sentiment of "trust, this is going to be good" because the games were out for so long, all the story intricacies were found and the atmosphere around the stories were of eager anticipation. Dawntrail launch has something that I noticed with Endwalker release as well, but to a much higher degree - these absolutely obsessive types that try to paint the story as a failure and worst thing ever and do their absolutely damnest to ruin any kind of enjoyment for others by their constant jeering. I am just deeply annoyed by such comments on these videos and chat in his streams, just whinging all the time how the writing is bad, and even better, how the game "tells, but doesn't show" - when no, they're just bloody blind. The game shows more than plenty, there is enough depth if you just have eyes to see and ability to read. Surely the people crying about "childish" writing would want to pay attention to what the game actually shows and look a bit deeper than the basic dialogue in the text box, no? Isn't that what they're supposedly clamoring for?
@@thesunthroneas someone who read everything even random NPC dialogue the core story and the way it’s delivered is your typical and generic shonen anime sprinkled with western YA book tropes. I don’t think it’s awful because I’m mostly used to this stuff but it’s a massive step down in quality and execution. If it were any other game no one will give it time of day. Everything on paper works but the way it’s threaded together is awful so it falls apart even on the good bits when characters act so stupid it’s just baffling. While bad critique is present and some is just annoying like trying to apply logic where they didn’t in the past is wack but that feeling of “this kinda sucks or is boring” stems from the amateur writing and awful quest design the game always had that is more noticeable thanks to the bad writing.
It's almost inconceivable that both Ishikawa, Oda, and Yoshi-P let this MSQ happen. Even if it does improve in the latter half, one would think that pulling out all the stops to ensure that your new story-of your ten-year-old baby or "life's work's" ultimate calling card and claim to fame-sinks its claws into anyone considering the WoL's story as having concluded in 6.0, would be the absolute minimum. People defend the slow pace and dull quest design as being akin to ARR in terms of laying a foundation, but we've all lived through that already, and you've had four successful expansions of practice in-between. By now, we're used to being engaged and excited.
they knew it was wack which is why they pushed heritage found, vanguard and solution 9 so early in the promotional material they knew the promise of "adventure" (aka babysitting) was gonna fall flat
the pacing reminds me of stromblood honestly, there are two complete stories smooshed into the space of one story. and it doesn't help that on top of that there is a heap of filler, the entire story of the wild west zone for example could have been cut and it would have had minimal impact on the over all story, but might have freed up some resources to pad out the bits that needed it.
3:50 What should have been there is a scene or two showing her training with the Warrior of Light. Though even with the dungeon and two trials, I am not sure that would be enough because they painted Mr. Two heads as if he was an end game boss. 8:02 I guess it sounds like it gets better?
Personally the pacing feels a bit all over the place. I am having a good time with the story (have more to go but only just past where you are). But it does feel a bit weird or in some ways repetitive. There's plenty of good elements to pull from here and I think that overall it's a decent story. I think it's hard comparing it to something like shadowbringers or Endwalker which were epic stories with lots of depth from over years of building. But that's not a bad thing because they're needing to take their time to build up a little bit more new stuff. But the piecing does feel a bit weird, sometimes slow and sometimes fast. But overall I am having a great time so I'm not worried for the future.
People say the reaction to this game is mixed or divisive. But I think it should be noted that the divide is between bad and ok. I don't think anyone is saying it is great or even very good, the fact that *at most* it is *ok* is not a great sign.
I think that's patently untrue. I found the expansion very good. Sure its not Shadowbringers or Endwalker but no reasonable person would expect that. I still put it above Stormblood as someone who enjoyed Stormblood. Seen loads of other people who loved Dawntrail as well.
@@TheChunkeyNinja Ok, I'll try to what I reframe what I was trying to communicate better and in a less nitpickable way. I would personally suspect, from what I have seen, the separate population pools of people who think Mediocre (bad 3-4) and Mediocre (good 5-6) are significantly larger than those who would put it in say it's a 7+. I'd personally put the first half as a 4 and the second half as a 7. The division, overall, appears to still be taking place in the lower end of the scale rather than being people calling it a 2 vs an 8.
@@HealingBlight Personally I believe the people being overly negative of it went in expecting fireworks and world ending events like ShB and EW rather than a story reset in the vein of ARR and as such were "bored" of world building, bare in mind these same people are often found touting "ARR is a slog, it gets better" "ARR is so boring I nearly quit" in my opinion ARR is only a slog if you are trying to rush your way through because you heard HW is the place to really start. I really enjoyed Dawntrail as a whole, Wuk Lamats naivete was a bit grating but for me the story gripped me a lot more from the start than Endwalker did, EW for me was dull until Garlemald
It took me 8 days to beat DT, been doing every side quest and some fishing along the way. Somehow this was the perfect pacing for me, because i've barely had one moment of noticing slog in the story. And tbh, every expansion does have this moment (trolley in ShB, 2nd part of labyrinthos in EW). To each their own, but i absolutely love Dawntrail
There is a series of totally optional out of the way sidequests in Il Mheg around Uriangiers house revolving around him and the faeries that has better character development, humor, and writting overall, than anything in Dawntrail lmao
It feels to me like the MSQ this expansion is paced under the assumption that you're stopping to do the random menial sidequests and not just plowing straight through it. Speaking both from my personal experience and also speaking with others, the people who are doing all the sidequests along the way as they pop up seem to be enjoying the MSQ a lot more than the people who are ignoring the sidequests and just rushing right through it. Not that the sidequests are adding significantly to the MSQ, at most they're just adding more worldbuilding details, but they're breaking things up in a way that makes it feel less slow by giving you more things to do in between cutscenes.
This was exactly my experience! I enjoyed the MSQ far more when I did the side quests in every zone. Then when I focused only on MSQ for awhile my entire experience changed, and not for the better. I found some of the side quests really good, aside from allowing me time to be in the zones, not just cutscenes of the zones. And you're right, taking time to do the side quests fixes a lot of the feeling of borked pacing, as well as being (for me) highly enjoyable.
Even just taking some time to gather and craft, or run a dungeon again for some gear paces things out better. The game's main story cannot account for that, so it just goes - but truth is, none of this game's stories are made to just binge through in a day. I personally haven't done all the side quests, just the aether current ones in most cases - but even just taking that time to mine gave me a moment to reflect and consider what the story is trying to do.
Interestingly, after playing the whole thing, I feel like I enjoyed the first half much more. The second act had many points where the pacing was off or the characters acted in ways that seriously annoyed me. I'm looking forward to seeing this again through Preach's experience tho.
I don't buy the "She did a couple dungeons with us that means she is suddenly strong enough to beat a guy who swatted her away like a gnat" the moment was very unearned and made me like the character even less. The dead baby lizard thing was also just so weird. I initially thought that they had used some sort of process to try to make these two headed super lizards but according to what I've read it's just the two different lizard tribes interbreeding which really sends a weird message to me personally. Also, Bakool Ja Ja is an idiot in general, like there is simply no reason we shouldn't put him down after releasing a threat like Valigarmanda onto the land. "Oooh but he has survivors guilt" is not really an excuse to turn what was supposed to be a dumb trial in the realm of mario party mini game into a life or death situation for an entire region of the world.
@@GushuGoblinwhat defense? Bro the people that can’t accept people don’t either hate or praise something to oblivion are so annoying. You guys kill any conversation on the spot. You don’t even know what I think but you assume I’m defending it because of what I said. Go back and analyze how the story is distributed and it’s the same. The thing here is that the lack of voice acting, amateur writing and not high stakes make it feel like a slog. Same thing happens in ARR and Stormblood.
While I was not the biggest fan of how they did the world building - it was still okay. But this is the section of the game where it all fell apart for me. Valigarmanda was introduced as the biggest, baddest monster there is on the continent. So strong they could only trap it. They make sure you know that and to fear it. Then Bakool Ja Ja releases it - he is not immediately disqualified and everyone is basically saying: "Oh man, he REALLY did an oopsie now!" Like most of the expansion, it feels insanely inconsistent. Either it is a big thread, or it is not a biggy. It cant be both. Bakool Ja Ja is also the best example for what is wrong with the character writing here. I do 100% get what they want to tell you. He is completely under the influence of legacy and tradition of his people and especially his father. It is indeed a tragic backstory - but it is handled in such a bad way and presented in a 30 sec cutscene, that it simply does not work or hit. Bakool Ja Ja does not act like a tormented soul before, he acts like a stupid high school bully. The story beat simply does not hit like it should, if the presentation itself is that horrendous. It feels like a different game to me at this point compared to older expansions. It is especially tragic cause the topic is so dark and brutal - and they just... run past it.
The solo duty with wuk lamat is where the story really hooked me. I did every dungeon and trial with the npcs so her strength felt earned. And i really enjoyed the storytelling in the duty where she still starts off on the back foot but becomes stronger as the fight progresses. I can agree the pacing can be wierd though it didnt bother me much. Something to note is that the eugenics plotline is not a relic of the culture but is simply a bad policy that needed to be corrected. So it didnt feel off to me that it was just solved that quick. What is a bit iffy is the underlying racism that lead to that policy being kind of brushed off a bit too quickly.
I agree but don’t forget she is a Warrior! The best tank class, the ones that can pwn when angry and she gets angry. Also the Warrior story line has huge power spikes during the leveling progress. Still I agree it does feel out of place or rushed, we Couldave used small incremental increases of her power spikes..
Some people seem to think we “solved the Mamool problem in minutes”, but we didn’t. We gave the Mamool a possible solution to one of their simple problems but the history and practice of breeding Blessed siblings is something that remains. We only gave an option for their crop situation but there are still deep rooted problems in their society
I've said it before elsewhere, I'll say it again here. I feel like the first half of the story was meant to be all of the Dawntrail story, and the second half was meant to be the post-Dawntrail story. Dawntrail was meant to be Wuk Lamat's entire journey to becoming Dawnservant but they were worried that players would be bored with just that, so they compacted and rushed that entire part of the story to make more room for the "good stuff" that happens after.
I envy people who can unironically stomach MSQ. Not just DT, but in general. While I do enjoy parts of the actual story, the actual delivery and the process of getting to the story (i.e. "Ayo talk to this guy over there, then again...and again...and again. Now go talk to that guy") is so damn jarring to me i can't stomach it.
The only way to really enjoy MSQ is to understand it as a separate game mode. It’s not about action MMO gameplay; it’s about reading a story. Yes there are dungeons and trials sprinkled throughout, but those are exceptions rather than the norm.
About things going too fast.... it's 10 hours of gameplay and 30 hours of cutscene/story. 40 hours of total MSQ. is that really too short for a character to develop? Movies do it in 90-120 minutes.
Sorry, I have to disagree. I assume the whole way through MSQ that Wuk Lamat and the scions are canonically who do the dungeons and trials. Two dungeons and a trial are not enough to make up for her getting absolutely bodied and then going on to solo the dude that bodied her plus 50 dudes. That is like a years of improvement type situation. And I'm sorry but 'because dynamis' is not enough to cover this one either. If you want to claim dynamis then any character at any point can be as powerful as the story needs them to be, despite what we've been shown. And to be clear I don't hate her character, there's much worse by far. But the inconsistency is astonishing.
For me, I would have LOVED to see Bakool Ja Ja break down in front of some of those jars after the dungeon. Crying and pounding his hands on the ground and yelling that he was /trying/ for them and his mom would go over and comfort him. A moment where she looks back at the WoL to hear her son's pleas. I feel it would have given him so much more character. His character development was so rushed and it feels like that a lot in the expac. Rushed development when I wish they could have delved a little deeper and like you said, not so "power ranger".
Bakool Ja Jas story felt like the story that Gulool Ja Ja should have fulfilled. There already is and has been a two headed Mamool Ja as a Dawnservant. How come he didn't lead the people of Yak T'el out of that unfruitful land of theirs. It almost seemed like people of Yak T'el didn't know that they already had what they wanted and it seemed that Gulool Ja Ja did not care what they were doing to get it. Surely he did know about the plight of Yak T'el.
Gulool Ja Ja the Dawnservant is LITERALLY THE REASON for the Mamook tradition. The two-headed Mamool Ja who unites the entire continent, becomes the undisputed hero, the unbeatable duelist... only problem he didn't elevate the Mamook as the rulers because he did not want to have any of the other peoples resent him for being a conqueror. So the Mamook resented him instead and coped by thinking that it's okay, they just need another Blessed Sibling and the next one will totally win them the throne and entire continent and great glory will be theirs. We know how well that works out. And it's not that Gulool Ja Ja doesn't want to help them, he's been through there, he's seen the sights. It's simply that most of the Mamook DO live in Tuliyollal, and what's left in the dark jungle are the bitter hardliners that think everyone's at fault for their misery and so they keep doing their weird eugenics program, sacrificing the growth of their people entirely to this idea. They clearly don't want to listen to Gulool Ja Ja, so he doesn't even bother. The reason why we solve their agricultural problem in two minutes is because Sharlayan had been preparing for a doomsday scenario of leaving the planet behind and settling elsewhere - hence the seed vaults for all possible environments. Now that the plan is cancelled, it's no problem to just send out a petition with the aetheric readings attached and introduce some new crops to the aetheric conditions of the dark jungle. But before then, entire Forum was under the silence spell where they couldn't even speak a peep of their master project and what they were gathering even if pressed.
What I gather from this and other streamer comment sections is that the fan base is god awful at giving proper feedback and deals in absolutes like a Sith lol. I appreciate your journal style reviews.
I think it's fair to say the zone's story was rushed (and it was), but I still really loved the zone. To me this s the spot where Wuk Lamat really starts to come into her own. She's still somewhat naive, but it starts to come across less as "it'll all be okay if we use friendship :)" and more as her being more practical, thoughtful, and considerate of the tough decisions she's going to have to make without abandoning her overarching ideals of peace, tolerance, and cooperation. Also I think SE went a bit overboard in characterizing Bakool Ja Ja as a moustache-twirling villain, but in retrospect I find it really funny how obvious it all was that they were setting up a redemption considering that despite all the villainy that he got up to, no one was actually killed as a result of Bakool Ja Ja's actions (besides maybe(?) some bandits).
I have never seen a more sharp example of Mary Suedom ever than the solo duty with Wuk Lamat vs Bakool Ja Ja. Just 3-4 levels earlier she got swatted with a single arm, then suddenly she has the power of 9 limit breaks and can solo him PLUS 50 of his goons, at what point did she get the training or power up to do this?! I want to hypothetical an example of a previous expansion doing something similar but if it had Dawntrails writing, the WoL vs Zenos. Stormblood spoilers (why are you here, but still) The first time you see Zenos, he is an absolute powerhouse, turning Rhalgr's upside down and swatting any one away with ease. The next time to face him is in Doma, about 3-4 levels after the first encounter, in the OG you don't beat him with ease, he is still an absolute tank showing that he is still a powerhouse. If it was written like Dawntrail was, we would have had 9 limit breaks and sent him crying home to daddy after kicking him and 50 Garlean soldiers asses with ease, just because we learned about the Doman way of living or something. But that's not how it was, we had to go through the entire expansion powering up to be able to face him at the end, it felt more earned than this. Not to even get me started on the 180 heel turn of a personality that happens with Bakool Ja Ja, a character that just moments ago in the story committed absolutely heinous crimes against the nation of Tural by unleashing the Skyruin, the most legendary Tural Vidraal known to them, on its populace.
I think Wuk Lamat is supposed to have been that powerful all along and it's only with her development and self belief that she has faith in herself to use her strength to the fullest. Her lack of experience and belief in her abilities were almost a block on her physical abilities.
I just recently finished Dawntrail MSQ and it really grew on me, even had me choked up. I would say it felt like it rushed some parts to get to the next major story beat. It was like they told a 30 hour story in 20 hours. All in all though, I had a blast and loved it.
I have some qualms with the xpac but i still enjoy it too. Later they introduce two characters (maybe you know who am i talking about) but they grew on me between the span of an hour
i feel like the starting story 90-96 was really slow because they rushed the pace in some places and slowed it down for world building.... i feel like that story could of been all the way to 100 if they added more conflict and different trials and made the 97 + story being .3 patch into next expansion. i guess they just couldn't find how to make that fleshed out and thought best to split into 2 different stories.
Overall I liked DT, but l literally told just yesterday to a friend of mine that the espansion's story basically felt like 7.0 from the start untill the election of the new Dawnservant and 7.x from then to the end
Bit of spoilers ahead Also the second part of the story should have been Koana's time to shine. (Vow of reason vs queen of reason). Lets say Wuk Lamat gets injured in the invasion and has to stay and hold the city by relying on others as she was learning to do in our journey with her.
This and slightly past is so odd in terms of feelings for me, almost as if i had done ARR in terms of world progress, but was spaced out during parts of the story context.
somethin i liked about the fact that we are just immediately like "oh yea, we got these seeds from over seas. we can fix this easy" is it just straight up destroys the mamool ja's isolationist practices. they hated the outside world and coveting what others had because their home lacked resources. but if they would have just come together and worked with the others there problems could have been solved and on top of that it shows the strength of koana's ideas of advancement to solve the problems of the people sure its idealistic, shallow and unrealistic. but for a feel good story just about people coming together and how we are stronger when we work together, i feel like it works out perfectly. also it makes me feel like we are globe trotting badasses. like duh, we've been to space, ofc poor agriculture conditions are not a threat to us. we are basically gods at this point lol i would have been more pissed if we treated this like it was a big problem totally agree that bakool ja ja part felt a bit rushed. honestly i felt the whole 90-95 section was rushed too. i care about the pelu pelu trading! and hanu hanu reeds! screw u guys and your "this is boring" comments. i like that stuff! lolol
The problem is that the writers thought they were tackling eugenics, but that's not what actually happens in the story. What they instead advocate for is miscenegation, which I assume is very much the opposite of what they had intended. Don't jump to conclusions because you think what the writer might have *wanted* to do, but pay attention to what the writing actually says.
I don't have a lot of gripes with the story overall. I just really hate Wuk Lamat as a main character. She is too overbearing. She takes up so much "screen time" that no other character has any chance to get any development. It's really ALL about her, she is in every cutscene, every fight, she leads every conversation... and a lot of the time, especially later on you just want her to shut up and let more experienced and frankly more intelligent people do the talking. It got to the point with me where I found her to be insufferable. It feels like she has 90% of all dialogue lines. I have never hated a character in an FF game as much as I have come to hate her throughout the MSQ. Not because she is that badly written, but simply because I want her to shut up, sit down and go away, so I can spent time with all the other characters who are simply more interesting. She is the only character of the new expac that I dislike, and it's a shame that everything revolves around her.
@@Gravewhisper wuk lamat legit gives me ptsd from my ex, who was incredibly codependent and had to insert themselves as the main focus of every waking second of my life. I catch myself avoiding Tuliyollal because I'm subconsciously scared she's going to find me.
Pacing can get a bit slow and fast at parts in the first half, but overall they did a decent job of introducing the characters of Tural. Which was the intention imo
Honestly this part was a dip for me. Wuk Lamat being the only remaining contestant just made me lose all interest in the stakes anyway. Zarool Ja got almost 0 characterization despite Wuk recruiting us to make sure he won't win, and now he can't win already.
People who think Bakool Ja Ja was forgiven are just wrong, Wuk Said he will still see punishment for his crimes She just now understand Why is all and there are more pressing matters to attend to at this time.
You see the term Mary Sue very often misused Wuk Lamat is the epitome of a Mary Sue, which is a frequent problem in anime and final fantasy games, but she’s just egregious Mike is understandably being diplomatic; I’ll say it - she’s awful and makes every scene she’s in objectively worse, unless it’s cringe factor, in which case she’s a great addition
Level wise it makes sense. Since overgrown lizard guy is cheating, he is still only level 90 while cat lady is leveling traditionally so she is level 94 94 > 90. Simple math lol
So at this point I am rating this story as the lowest in all of ff14 right now. Will have to see where it goes as it’s only about halfway still. But yeah I mean even ARR was more interesting to me than this. I’ll see the story through to the end but I’m losing patience. Feels like this story is just a dud.
Pacing is absolutely DT's biggest problem for me. They somehow managed to make it feel both incredibly slow and boring much of the time, and rushed. Really weird to me for a team that clearly knows how to do it right.
I liked the second half of DT much better. I still hope they ditch Wuk Lamat as a character for future expansions. Really looking forward to Arcadion, because content is awesome
@melaniebiberger2191 the second half is where I turned on the story tbh. I despise the entire plot behind the second hub, and I'd been patient with Wuk Lamat through the whole first half, assuming she'd give the rest of the characters some breathing room after that, only for her to be inserted right back into the middle of things and never let go.
@@Keira_Blackstone shes still hamfisted into you, thats true but at least its not her alone anymore. The other characters have their moments too. Not to mention the introduction of a few new very likeable characters
IT's very simple. The first fight occurs when she's level 90 and he's 94. Then, she levels up going through the MSQ up to 94, while he mostly skips out on everything, remaining at 94. And after that... well it's a Warrior vs a Viper. More Adds? More Healing, you mean.
Gulool Ja Ja: Sorry Krile, I can't tell you important plot details yet because it would give one of the Dawnservant candidates an unfair advantage :( Also Gulool Ja Ja: *Makes the biological father of Wuk Lamat an Elector that has the power to choose who can proceed* 90-97 is just BAFFLING storytelling, man.
You'd have a point, but the Xibral chief was pretty fair during and after his trial and Gulool Ja Ja also put a super extremist as the last elector, where Bakool and maybe Zoral Ja would have had preference over the other two. And I'd argue that that guy was actually unfair.
@@tryagain6691 My original post before I deleted and re-typed it did actually mention the Mamook one as well but I second-guessed that he specifically was the biological father of Bakool Ja Ja. Either way, yes, the point stands and works just as well for him too. The idea that Gulool Ja Ja can't answer Krile despite her travelling across the globe in search of answers is laughable when he hires two biological fathers prone to bias to help determine the next ruler of the continent.
@@ItsCassius Why? Racial bias or family connections will be relevant to a future ruler. But to not just make up reason, each trial is seemingly held by the leader or chief of each tribe we go to. The only exception is the pelupelu. It might not be a choise at all, at the end of the day, as most tests have something to do with the local culture and who else to test you on that, but the local leader. The whole trial thing is also not to determine, but, as Gulool Ja Ja says, to cultivate a leader. If you look at what is actually asked of the claimants, it is a really unfair set of tests for both Bakool Ja Ja and Zoral Ja, with both Wuk Lamat and Koana having more of an edge in most trials, especially after you count their support group. In a way, Gulool Ja Ja isn't really looking for an answer on who is going to succeed him. He already knows who will, he just don't know which candidate, if any, is going to become that person.
@@tryagain6691 additionally, gulool ja ja tells you directly that the trial is more to judge the character of the claimants and mold them into good rulers than to actually find the Golden city (After the instanced fight against him he admits that he would have just remained dawnservant if at trial complete no claimant was deemed worthy)
I've only just started the new MSQ myself, was finishing all the remaining side stuff as I had been procrastinating. I've known nameless Swarthy Sailor for all of five minutes and already I'd rather have him by my side than Wuk Lamat. The VO isn't even all that bad yet even if I strongly disagree with the actor's views, but the character herself is grating. Shonen-style slop. I had hoped we'd reserve this level of trope-heavy writing for Hildibrand. It also rubbed me the wrong way how Wuk Lamat was showing off during the initial hunt, slaying a bunch of beasties with a single attack while practically bragging about it yet turning meek and into a literal scaredy-cat practically on a dime. The package doesn't match the filling, ironically enough. That bit about sea-sickness would've worked better if Erenville had commented on it after she'd made landfall, maybe have her staggering off the ship or something.
The things you mentioned are exactly things that made me go "ughhh". - Wuk Lamat winning because she now believes in herself and resolve and the power of anime. - Us finding out who Wuk Lamat's real father is, told to keep quiet about it, but then she finds out in the exact next scene and nothing comes of it. - The eugenics thing is very interesting, but is solved too quickly is way too easily. Generations of ingrained traditions can just disappear that quickly. I'm in social studies. Everything in this expansion starts out interesting but always has something weak or shitty to it.
Yeah, and you might then know that traditions DO disappear extremely quickly when they are unsustainable. They are straight up dying out due to their eugenics tradition - they have pretty much no children there at all, their houses are collapsing and cities half-empty. If you count the Wanderer's Palace Blessed Sibling, they have had at minimum two hundred stillbirths in 20 years, and very likely much more. And they are a fringe people at that - most of their number live in Tuliyollal and went there along with Galool Ja Ja. They simply cannot go on like this. The only reason they still put up the front is because they are lost to the sunk cost fallacy. But then, two Promises and the Blessed Sibling (who just failed by the way) come and tell you, no, stop, it's over. We have to move on. What kind of society possibly would STILL cling to the tradition that is killing them and reject outside help? They have tried everything, and we can even make an off handed comment about killing a two-head and not really thinking much about it back in Eorzea. Look to any defeated nation in your social studies. Look what makes them to ultimately submit, no matter what their claims and ideology and proclaimed values were - the simple realization that there's no point in continuing their doomed ways.
On Wuk Lamat and Bakool Ja Ja fight, I think it's important to note that Wuk Lamat is weaker than Bakool, like, significantly, and she has to continue breaking her limits to stand in equal footing and then on top. At the start of the fight, Bakool does more damage to you than you can reasonably heal passively, his attacks are strong and Wuk has no chance... And it's through her willpower that breaks the limits that she is able to stand against him at all. So I don't think it's power creep, Wuk is weaker than Bakool Ja Ja, but she was more determined to win and break through her own weaknesses, whereas Bakool relied on others and didn't have his heart in the fight, being crushed by the weight of expectation on him to win by any means
![Today was A Bad Day: Dawntrail MSQ - Day 6 [LEVEL 96 SPOILERS]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hno7t6TTgKw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Today was A Bad Day: Dawntrail MSQ - Day 6 [LEVEL 96 SPOILERS]](/img/tr.png)
Patently false advertisement, Mike is super racist towards Lalafells.
Not true, can't really be racist against vegetables!
he is just affraid of them and their undisputed might
Lalas arnt people
@@Ceriva09Time to get the step ladders and rise up!
TRUE AND REAL
Solving racism is WoL's bread and butter! Just don't ask the Giants in Copperbell Mines
Can't ask them because they are no more!😊
@@KawarrenDa solution of the final kind?? Wtf wol
@@KawarrenD Which means we solved the racism issue. Can't be racist to people who no longer exist XD
@Rc3651 my headcanon rp for that dungeon is that despite what I was asked to do, I went in trying to negotiate some kind of peace with them, but was unable to because they attacked me on sight and I was forced to defend myself.
"He tosses her aside like she is leftover hot dogs"
That is such a weird metaphor and somehow it works perfectly
Not going through the „door“ was such a blue ball moment
Hey Preach, not sure if you are aware or not. Ishikawa is not the MSQ writer for Dawntrail. She stepped down after 6.0 Endwalker, and went into more of a management position instead of heading the MSQ writing. That means she was also not the one who wrote the MSQ for the Endwalker patch series.
Regardless of the overall story of Dawntrail, I think what I notice the most with Dawntrail writing, is that the moment to moment dialogue between people is just garbage compared to how it was in Endwalker or Shadowbringers. There is so much telling, instead of using subtle ways to show us what is happening which is what made the writing in Endwalker and Shadowbringers feel so good.
yeah I agree, the scions are void of personality and the dialogue this time around is very basic. The story itself is good but the way it's being told is very subpar compared to previous expansions
"There is so much telling, instead of using subtle ways to show us what is happening"
Remember when Thancred sacrificed his last chance to meet Minfilia to hold Ranjit at bay, we got this really emotional scene after the fight where he just accepts he's never going to see her again. We didn't need narration, we didn't need Thancred to tell us what went through his head, we didn't need one of the other scions to go "see WoL, what Thancred just felt was xyz". That's how the scene would have been written by the current talent. It's night and day.
@@socram3254 i think they do get Better in the second half (or at least they are USED better), but for the trial of the dawnservant itself it felt more like they were there because you needed a full party for the dungeons at times
@@iosonotom1010 Which doesn't make sense at all, Alphi and Alisae have so much wisdom they could give to Wuk Lamat, but they literally never speak. Such a missed opportunity.
On top of that, there is a lot of discussion here about Wuk Lamat's glow up into defeating Bakool Ja Ja. Regardless of what side you stand on regarding that, what would have been significantly better, is if we, the Warrior of Light, who Wuk Lamat is traveling with, just spared with her a few times in solo duties. After her first "attack" on Bakool Ja Ja in Hanu, imagine if we got a set of 3 solo duties of us sparing with her as we progressed through the early MSQ leading up to her fight wit Bakool Ja Ja. Each time we do one of these sparing events it progressively becomes harder and harder as she learns to use new abilities and techniques on us. Not only would it have helped break up the monotony of the early MSQ, but it would have also fit EXTREMELY well with the story itself.
The early MSQ just feels like a ton of missed opportunity. I am fine with another character taking the "spotlight" for a period of time, but I really would have liked if we her traveling companions actually interacted with her in meaningful ways. Alisae and Alphi have so much wisdom of people and cultures, and Alphi learned so much with his growth in the Crystal Braves. Alisae reminds of Wuk Lamat in many ways, they both want to save everyone they can and rush headstrong into battle every time. But we literally never get any meaningful dialogue between any of these characters, in fact, 90% of the time they are literally removed from the group just so it's Wuk Lamat and the Warrior of Light.
@@CloudedInSanity I PERSONALLY liked the Wuk fight and found It believable enough (especially considering that we ourselves did way "worse" with Zenos/Shinryu back in stormblood), but having a mini training arc with her would have been cool (preferably an instance, but even a cutscene like with lyse back in SB would have also been fine...maybe a bit less over the top...)!
Also, agreed with the scions (e.g.: alphinaud and alisaie are PERFECT to talk about estranged siblings reconciling, or to draw parallels to Wuk e Koana, given that they are also a pair of siblings where one is more action oriented and the other scholarly).
I overall liked DT a lot (even in the first part i liked the "feel" of the contest and exploring tural and its people), but there are a lot of missed opportunities (additionally, while I can't fault DT specifically, given that it's a recurring issue in XIV, they REALLY should re-think their quest design to spice it up a bit; for instance the train section to get to Vanguard seemed taylor made to have a turret section like the air force one GATE, but instead we did all the trite fetch quests before and the actual fun part was relegated to just a cutscene)
I didn't mind Bakool Ja Ja as both a character and a villain, but found that his 'redemption' and subsequent forgiveness for the rest of the story was entirely undermined by just how comically evil he was presented as for the first half of the story. Abducting Wuk Lamat, threatening to kill multiple people and purposefully unleashing Valigarmanda, a creature that had been previously established to have caused untold suffering in the past, so much so that the scars of it's destruction are still visible many decades later. I did enjoy the backstory of his people and empathised with his motivations and struggles, but felt that his portrayal as a villian should have been toned down to make his character work even slightly.
I agree. I found how cartoonishly villainous he was just doesn't quite match up with why he was doing what he was doing. I know he was desperate, but he had this air of bravado and racist superiority about him. He seemed to take pleasure in his despicable acts he was doing during the rite of succession. It didn't look anything like desperation and more like Saturday morning cartoon villain.
It's interesting when you compare Bakool Ja Ja's character development with Zoraal Ja's because their character arcs were going in opposite directions. While Bakool Ja Ja started off as stereotypically villainish as he can be and was redeemed later, Zoraal Ja was stoic and mysterious when we were first introduced to him. The only things we knew about him at the time was that he was Gulool Ja Ja's first and only trueborn son and that his motivations for the tournament were wanting to rule with war and combat to "keep the peace." Then around the same time as Bakool Ja Ja's redemption was happening, we start to see more of Zoraal Ja and his "true" motivations for chasing after the golden city...and I won't go into too many details at this point due to spoilers.
Cartoonishly is a perfect way to describe a lot of things that happen on this expansion that works against what should be compelling characters and moments.
One mistake here is that they don’t “forgive” him. He’s given a chance to atone, which he takes to readily.
one of the reasons that the first 2 zones feel so long is because, in previous expansions you'd have part of the story for the first 2 zones, and then there'd be some kind of unpassible part and you'd come back later for the rest of the story (for example, kholusia in shadowbringers has the giant cliff that you don't get to go up until much later in the story), this has the effect that mobs and fates in one half of the zone are level 70-72 and the other half is like lvl 76-78. In dawntrail we finish the first 2 zones in one go pretty much, the only slight break is the pelupelu first then the giants after you've done urqopacha and the pelupelu and you do all that before the first dungeon, as a result, the entire zone stays in the 90-93ish range for mobs and fates. This doesn't really help with the problem of pacing but does help explain why its so long to do the first 2 zones this time.
For the Wuk Lamat solo fight against Bakool Ja Ja, i put it down to dynamis, i don't think its ever explicitly stated that's the reason why she's so much stronger but i felt like it was implied by the amount of LB spam you can do and its been established that LB is related to dynamis. Although i do agree on the face of it, it seems rather sudden that she's suddenly so strong
I expected them to use dynamis to explain the fight as well as soon as the duty basically told you to abuse it. It never got brought up after that as far as I can remember though, so it's just headcanon to me.
I'm watching this and when you said "nearly unharmed" for the solo duty, i flashed back to how much I almost died. Lol I lived on a sliver of life for most of that solo duty. 🤣
I've only ever played whm and a little bit of dancer so when these solo duties pop up where you play another character using their job I always have such a bad time 😅
The description of the MSQ story as both rushed *and* too drawn out reflects my own experience. This isn't to say some of us did not want drawn-out world-building - we did. Dawntrail was to be a return to our roots and ARR and a starting over, so I was fully prepared for it. However, the world-building we got was too superficial. To take one example. The best zone for world-building imo was Shaaloani, a sort of remade Thanalan. The zone had a great vibe and great visuals throughout. However, even here, if we compare the stories to those told in the early Ul'dah/Thanalan quest chain in ARR, Shaaloani comes up short. For example, the lumber incident - where we "hear the concerns of the local people" in exchange for taking their lumber to buiild more railroad tracks. Contrast that with ARR in which we actually *stop* the rich of Ul'dah from pushing people out of a small seaside town. With the implication that this battle for Thanalan is far from settled and will continue (and it does) and will not be easily solved, that it requires us taking a position and a stand on it. Which we do. As does Nanamo. In contrast Dawntrail has us go on what sometimes felt like a political listening tour, and here we seem to con the locals into doing what we need them to do - hand over that lumber. Complexities and conflict were too often smoothed over, long-term problems solved with magical Sharlayan seeds, or a little talk over the campfire, as long as leaders drop by once in a while and show the locals that they "feel their pain" all is good. It moved uncomfortably close to parody for me here. it wasn't terrible but it didn't sit quite right with me. That said I intend to return to Shaaloani to complete all the side quests. In some areas I found that the sidequests was where were I got the nuance the MSQ sometimes sidestepped.
And the fact that this was all filtered through Wuk Lamat's personal journey - the alpaca test, the trading test for example - was what imo overshadowed the chance to fill out these zones and let us explore them as we did in the past MSQs - connecting with larger themes and other people (Scions etc) but lettng the zones take more of a center stage. The change in focus - Wuk Lamat - seemd to overshadow the areas we traveled through and even harmed her character arc, since it came off in places as narcissism - as if what was important about Urqopacha or Kozama'uka was what they could contribute to Wuk's personal journey. I could be wrong, likely it worked for others, but I could never shake off that first impression.
Man, it’s nice to read well put out thoughts in here because some of them fall into the “it’s trash” or “best thing” dichotomy. GG friend.
Y'know what I'm gonna do the same thing, because i did start taking interest in some of the aether current side quests in the area. Some of them were a bit simple, but they really gave me a better feeling of the area. And well, yeah they didn't filter everything through Wuk Lamat.
I see the sentiment wanting to further explore those "issues" and you're right they are showing just enough for the MSQ to move along because the focus is Wuk Lamat's journey. They delegated the more deeper stuff to the side quests. Its probably a dilemma of pacing and budget since they went with the dual story approach and chose what they thought best fit the flow of the MSQ.
@@Plasmacat1 Thank you for your kind words.
@@StormierNik Nice! There are some interesting stories and characters here, and the zones and music are some of the best. I just don't want to leave these areas unexplored so I plan to do them all.
There's also the thing with Bakool JaJa where Thancred and Urianger tell you that he pestered them through the dungeon but backed away when confronted, so when Wuk Lamat confronts him after he gets beat by Zoraal Ja, he's not in top shape.
Pacing is the biggest issue. Quest design is the 2nd biggest issue. I'm actually fine with the story they told here. It just didn't need to be 50 hours and 100 quests long. There isn't that much that happens in the MSQ to fill that amount of space, so it just feels SUPER padded out and slow.
If Dawntrail was 60 quests and ~25-30 hours, it'd be fine. the problem is it feels like 60 quests that were artificially elongated to 100... and there's nothing to justify that. There's NO gameplay in the MSQ that's worth anything outside of dungeons/trials.
From the last patch of Endwalker (with her shaky hands after the parrot boss) and through the whole story with the way she talked about herself vs her brothers, I've always thought she was always this strong, she just didn't believe in herself. That's why when she gained confidence and defeated Bakool Ja Ja, it didn't really surprise me, I felt like they were building up this arc since last expansion
A dead baby dungeon was definitely not on my Dawntrail bingo list 😂
I assume and hope that they give more work to Bakool Jaja in the patches. Similar to how the Chais had to further redeem and develop themselves after living as Eulmorans.
I don’t understand the criticism with Bakhool’s decision to utilize kidnapping the dad though. His team lost the trial so in my head I’m thinking, “ok he’s fucked from being able to reach the golden city unless he takes the stone by force from Wuk Lamat or Koana. So I think it makes sense for him to act right then and there while they were still in the area and try to steal Wuk Lamats stone
I like the introduction to new cultures and customs, but that deserves better than the all over the place pacing of this expansion. We solve complicated issues in like 2 minutes, but spend 20 doing fetch quests…it really feels like they did not know what to do for story in Dawntrail. Honestly, the battle content is what has kept me at all interested.
About Bakool Ja Ja, while I think his story could've been handled better, one thing I really l really liked was when Wuk told you something like "He must answer for his crimes like anyone else, but right now my duty as future dawnservant is to assure that no one is desperate enough to do what he did".
He doesn't answer for his crimes tho, actually gets promoted.
@KnightOfCarim2 that's just kind of an FFXIV thing, Gaius didn't answer for his crimes, too. Fordola went to prison but was shortly released (which is better than nothing, I actually think it was good, but still). I'd be interested to see these people stand trial or something, but it's not news in FFXIV to quickly forgive crimes. That is something we see a lot, not only in FF but in Japanese media. Rather than going to prison, it's making amends by taking action and helping out. This is not how it works in real life, of course, but I dunno I guess I just have a soft spot for villains who turn into good people.
@FelipeCarvalho-my3uv point of order- last I checked, Fordola was never released. They just allowed her to do occasional military service as part of her sentence.
In fact, Fordola herself does not want to be released at all. She recognizes she messed up when she took the stance she did and cannot redeem herself. That Ananta forced the issue.
@@FelipeCarvalho-my3uv I liked when one of the job role quests in Endwalker - the one where you travel with Hien to a small village - confronts this issue by showing how frustrated the local people are that Yotsuyu never paid for the crimes she had committed against them. Even though in her case that was literally impossible since she only regained her memory close to her own death. I can't argue with mercy over justice as a general rule, but it's nice when they show that it isn't always simple.
It's always funny the way some of his predictions are so close yet just off little lol
Dude's been doing this for a long time. Guess that's where he gets it, lol
He pretty much got 80% of his prediction correct. Only thing he really missed was who brings Solution 9 to the source. I would say he's close enough to not have to pay up the 50 subs.
This is like opposite of endwalker: badass story, but meh in content. On dawntrail: okay story, but badass content.
Very true, content is peak on this expansion (so far), story… well.
Nah, DT second half story is equally as good as EW story.
But yes, DT content is the best. I love zones. By far the best imho.
@@MegaAndyGG I really enjoyed the second half, I would probably say that zone 5 was almost perfect for me, it hits most of the time right (very fun to explore and etc) and the budget for VA on that zone was high as hell (easily had more VA than zone 1 and 2 together lol).
I think I enjoyed the story a lot from level 97 to 100, the other half could use a lot of improvement.
@@Siul_987 Yeah i agree 100%
It's sad that the first half is very mid and boring. But yes, i love the final zones!
@@MegaAndyGG No, it is not. DT second half is literally a bad retell of Shadowbringers with Sphen being discount Emet. Second half is also what completely ruins Wuk Lamat as that is the point where it becomes clear she was the OC of the main writer as they force her really, really hard into everyone's faces no matter how huge of a detriment it was for the story. Like Krile and Erenville being relegated to a 10 minutes scene when the second half is basically all about them. I didn't hate Wuk at the start, I understood it was her part of the story, so even I disliked it, I still got it. Second half is where I realize the main writer was the embodiment of that Simpsons meme "And when Wuk Lamat is not around, all the other characters should ask: Where is Wuk Lamat?".
Good ideas badly executed is how I'd sum up Dawntrail. The Mamook twist is really powerful (and hats off to the fantastic VAs) but the heel turn is a bit too sudden and unearned given the horrendous things Bakool has done and even seemed to enjoy doing.
Personally i enjoyed DTs story overall unlike some but one of my criticisms is how quick he turned its a pet peeve of mine in stories where they turn a bad guy good too quickly and when they dont deserve it yet. Im ok with it happening just wish they took more time with it
Also of note in the Wuk Lamat solo duty, after all we know now about limit breaks and dynamis, I thought that mechanic was a neat detail.
Are you sure you want to call Timeless Child a good dw episode?
Clearly he enjoyed it so yes he does
Bakool ja ja was basically like when the child of a fanatical cult being told he was God incarnate and that he's born off the sacrifice of hundreds of children. That's gonna understandably mess someone up
Isn’t that Vauthry’s life story as well save for the fact that Emet-Selch engineered Vauthry to have godly powers?
@@iantaakalla8180 I would say different motivations. Bakool was raised to believe he was the last hope of his people while Vauthry grew up flat out entitled.
@@Wastingsometimehere and Vauthry held the belief that he was the saviour of the world.
@@iantaakalla8180 very different. vauthry had a god/savior complex. Bakool ja ja had survivor's guilt
it's basically god of war
the turn of Bakool Ja Ja really worked for me, the voice actor sold the agony of being trapped in this awful system so well, my opinion of him completely 180'd
I'm not sure how 'secret' their eugenics program even is because before you went to Yak T'el, the Pelupelu seemed to allude (among themselves) to some kind of heavy' history there before you boarded the dirigible and I don't think a tasty taco recipe is what they were referring to
I was enjoying the MSQ until the giant zone. I run roulettes between quests, do fates, and play pretty slowly, and I was enjoying the world building. But then the conquering giant group was introduced...and pacified in the same scene. Then Valigarmanda was taken down almost immediately. And then, as much as I liked the Mamook story, everything resolved so quickly. I'm only at 95 in the MSQ, but I hate how every time it feels like there will be some stakes it just goes away so quickly and easily. ARR might have been slow world building, but it introduced the Ascians and Garlean invasion by the time you level your starting region. Stormblood might have meandered, but we had a clear threat/enemy/stakes.
I was all up for a low stakes story. So far, this one feels like it's allergic to having stakes.
I'm just hoping it gets more interesting in the 2nd half.
IMO the whole "low stakes" point went out the window when basically the first thing out of Zoraal Ja's mouth was a promise to wage the bloodiest war of conquest he could. And without spoiling too much, the stakes are pretty damn high by the end of the MSQ.
I got that too and because I actually really like Wuk Lamat and world building. Despite the weird pacing (lingering when not needed and rushing when more time would be more satisfying), and the absurdity that their father raised them without cultural or history lessons, I actually enjoyed the first half of the game as an adventure game better than the second half.
The second half fed my nerd urges to dissect the ethics and functionality of magic systems. Which was also great. I also enjoyed the slap of reality to the optimism we just learned in the first half and was really interested in the “can we stick to our convictions?” Undertone. But honestly I was disappointed that the second half ramped the threat up so much. I feel like it would have been better to have a lower stakes threat for the start of a new era. Give it room to grow.
I honestly think there was too much to put into a single expansion but not enough for two and they had some things they needed to set up some very specific threads so they just mashed these two together and the pacing ended weird because of it.
In ARR we only temporarily saved Eorzea and were barely a character more of the muscle. The real main characters was Eorzea, the leaders and the scions. HW had us more of a side character but we saved two nations from a long conflict. SB Lyse was the main character and we liberated two nations. SHB and EW are the two expansions where wol is the main character and you save 2 worlds in 2 realities in one and the entire remaining universe in another.
It would have been nice for the stakes to be back to ARR or HW level in Dawn Trail.
Bakool was just written so badly at the start. They really wanted him as the red herring villain so bad by just making him as horrible as possible when I feel they could of easily executed him being an asshole still and an antagonist while also giving him while better teasing what he is really going through. I enjoyed where it went (Minus how quickly he switched over to be buddy buddy with Wuk) it's just the starting point didn't really make sense for how his character is. The worst part of it all is how obvious it is he wouldn't likely be the big bad either yet it feels like they made him more cartoonishly evil solely as a way of trying to get people to think he would be the big threat.
I think viewing fights as exchanges of power is dull, and most stories that do that suffer from it. It's one of the reasons I like JJK so much - pretty much every fight in that show is won by a trick, some clever exploit found by a character, or otherwise. A lot of the times FFXIV does this too, where we set ourselves up to handle a situation well, though the actual fights are just gameplay so it's a little wierd.
point being, that moment was really satisfying for me because I just wasn't thinking about the power of the characters or that expectation. Wuk Lamat hit a new stride and found a flow that let her almost spam LB's, and as she says "I'm not sure I could win again if we fought again, or if he was confident". To me, their intent was that bakool ja ja really didn't have his head in the game and now that Wuk Lamat did, she had the edge.
But this brings up something that was a through thread of the expansion for me - incredibly important details and context framed through the presentation as less important. Sure they 'accounted' for a lot of the complaints people have had, but how many people skimmed those explanations, or just didn't really feel them hit because their just a little bit of text as almost an afterthought?
This is where the step down in amount of VA really hurts Dawntrail I think.
it feels like they also weren't quite sure where the really heavy hitting parts of the story were in many parts, and that's where some of the pacing issues come from. Like, we took valigarmanda much more seriously than the story did, I think, and that made the pacing feel weird in that section.
If you like fights that are won with tricks and strategy id recomend watching jojo.
The lack of VA is definitely people being spoiled by EW which had the most VA because Yoship wanted it to be epic as an ending and now we're back to normal amounts of VA in MSQ. Valigarmanda and their like will definitely be explored as the patch series trials most likely.
Tbh the quick resolution of the Mamool area made sense to me given just how much they follow Bakool JaJa. The second he says he’s open to what the outsiders say they’re willing to follow the proposal because they believe in his decisions so much.
Edit: also ngl Mike i definitely appreciate creating a community where earnest discussion can be had but stream chat really has become insufferable the past few days with a lot of ppl who clearly have no intention of actually engaging in the conversation just shouting ppl down for their opinions. The first time in a long time I've seriously considered just minimizing chat while you play.
Not only that, it was clear that at this point they were deeply weakened and dwindled. We turned their previous "blessed sibling" into mulch in the Wanderer's Palace dungeon along a bunch of their young gloryseekers without so much as a thought. When we see the Mamook towns, they are broken down, half-empty. This is a population completely on the bring, going on the last fumes of sunken cost fallacy. They straight up are looking for permission to just stop, but don't dare doing it on their own accord because they might get shunned in their community. When two Promises from the royal family arrive and offer help, and their Blessed Sibling is also on their side, that's a chance they simply can't ignore.
There's a quote that summarises it really well.
"When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor" - Paulo Friere
Not only is Bakool Ja Ja, the figurehead of their entire cultish obsession speaking out, but it also comes coupled with the knowledge that their problems *can be fixed*. Their lives *can be improved*, and steps are immediately taken to do so. They no longer had to dream of oppression as a tool of liberation.
Completely agree on the state of chat though. I mentioned that I don't feel as safe in the in-game community with the undeniable transphobia around Wuk Lamat's English VA, and got jumped by several people who insisted that there was no transphobia at all. And then Bex banned someone for being blatantly homophobic less than 30 mins later.
The issue with the Wuk Lamat vs Bakuul JaJa fight for me is that it goes completely AGAINST the theme of the story. The entire expansion tells you that together you are stronger, friendship is magic, everyone needs to come together, share your vulnerabilities; even the Dawnservant needs to be two heads / people. But WukLamat (literally) sidelines the WoL and the scions, to have her big 1v1 battle in which she wins on her own by brute force (muh dynamis). Somehow even Bakuul Jaja himself portrays the theme better, by asking his friends to help out when he discovered he can't succeed on his own.
The entire expansion's story has been a pretty poor experience for me, but shooting your own theme in the foot for a flashy scene is just amateur writing.
to be fair Bakool doesn't ask for their help, they come in because he's losing, during the fight Bakool tells them to leave and they reply for him to shut up and that the fate of Mamook is more important than his ego
that single moment had more depth than most of the expac lol
I at least assumed they were going to show the WoL had rescued the hostages during the fight, but we didn't even get that.
i'm gonna get torn to shreds for this but: yeah, the new lead writer needs to be demoted/fired/moved to anything else
Just finished the MSQ yesterday. Personally I think it is ok. But I feel like the Rite should have been the MSQ and the stuff afterwards Post MSQ. That would have probably paced it out better.
main criticism of the wuk father reveal is we saw absolutely no development from her character as a result. she’s essentially just like “… oh okay”
It was insane how she treated her father during that reveal, it was like, "Wow that's crazy, but really I'm the daughter of Gulool Ja Ja! K! Bye!" and literally fuckin just turns around and walks away. Hilarious, I was like holy shit at least say thank you for making the hard decision to give me up, or something, say ANYTHING to the poor guy ffs.. that scene was really a ball dropped massively, and I'm someone who liked the story in general otherwise.
@@TheBolondronI think your understanding of the scene is just subpar
Just to counter that point, because it is something I had to give a lot of thought to because my reaction was initially a lot like yours, Wuk Lamat never showed any interest in finding her biological father, she fully accepts the dawnservant as her father. She doesn't seem to have any conflict there, so it somewhat makes sense that she wouldn't want to linger on it.
@@rayneg7685I still think it’s a bit weird that she doesn’t acknowledge it to the degree that she does with how empathetic she is towards everyone that she meets. It’s something that weighed on him all these years, and I’d of liked to see them exchange just a few more words on it.
@@schmidth I think your understanding of the scene is just subpar
It does kinda feel like 2 different expansions were thrown together
2nd half is good good. After Vanguard. 1st half it's okay
Bakool Ja Ja is the classic bully - acts all tough and pushes people around, but not because he wants to, but because he's scared and hopes to quickly display dominance so that nobody messes with him. So when Zoraal Ja checked his ego with a single swift kidney shot, he was already severely humbled. But coupled with even Wuk Lamat beating him up, he just completely had his sense of pride shattered and just ran off to the place where he'd felt safe since he was a child. And even then, we see him get a dressing down by his father who promptly exiles him. After all that, he truly is done with this whole eugenics nonsense - and so are the villagers, really. Their homes are in disrepair, their city is half-empty, they have completely destroyed their demographics for this foolish tradition, and it has failed again and again. It's not that we solve racism in 2 minutes - it's that we meet people that all but beg for someone to put a stop to this misery and we have a plan ready. A plan, by the way, only possible thanks to us resolving the crisis in Endwalker - these seed vaults were created to be used on whatever planets the Forum wished to colonize next as they would escape on the Moon.
As for Wuk Lamat's power spike, this is where it'd be good for Mike to actually do the Warrior quests and learn that these kinds of sudden spikes of power and fury are very much part of the job and lore. Call it Dynamis, MANMODE, berserker rage or just plain old adrenaline, warriors keep going stronger and stronger the longer the battle goes on. We must remember that the world of FFXIV is inherently magical, even the simplest of attacks doesn't have that crazy shiny effects trail for no reason - all attacks we do are inherently magical. And then on top of that, they are further augmented by emotion (Dynamis), which is why people with strong convictions prevail over those whose resolve wavers.
That is why another important piece of interactive storytelling were the multiple small LB1s that the scenario had us perform just to survive - it reads as Wuk Lamat over and over resolving herself to push forward and be better, a trial by fire against a foe she failed against before, but simply can not afford to fail against anymore. Make note, this was just an LB1 done many times over because she could not build up any more - plenty of characters have performed LB3s in similar scenarios, like Yugiri against Elidibus-Zenos at the end of Stormblood postgame patches, or even Papalymo empowering Yda/Lyse in a cutscene at the end of ARR (not to even mention our companions in the dungeons that pop LB2s/LB3s when they feel like it). It shows very clearly that though Wuk Lamat is getting stronger, she's hardly some unbeatable champion that some chatters seem to think she is, and she won't be competing against Alisaie for LB2s or LB3s any time soon.
Contrary to the popular criticism in the comments of these videos, Dawntrail shows a LOT, not just tells - but you need to pay attention and actually participate.
I think if a player like Mike completely miss things then it'll be even worst for new players. IMO instead of hoping he becomes more knowledgable I think he gives a good perspective as a casual player. I think it's true that MSQ is best appreciated by people who understand lore and reads what's on the fcking screen. But if lots of players misunderstand the same thing, that's a problem in execution. I don't disagree that people miss things, but I'll argue that they missed alot in other expansions too but they still got the "vibe" of what's going on.
Elidibus with his LB4 lol
@@seekittycat While I understand the value of knowing what the "average" person thinks, I also think previous FF expansions have benefitted from an overwhelming sentiment of "trust, this is going to be good" because the games were out for so long, all the story intricacies were found and the atmosphere around the stories were of eager anticipation. Dawntrail launch has something that I noticed with Endwalker release as well, but to a much higher degree - these absolutely obsessive types that try to paint the story as a failure and worst thing ever and do their absolutely damnest to ruin any kind of enjoyment for others by their constant jeering.
I am just deeply annoyed by such comments on these videos and chat in his streams, just whinging all the time how the writing is bad, and even better, how the game "tells, but doesn't show" - when no, they're just bloody blind. The game shows more than plenty, there is enough depth if you just have eyes to see and ability to read. Surely the people crying about "childish" writing would want to pay attention to what the game actually shows and look a bit deeper than the basic dialogue in the text box, no? Isn't that what they're supposedly clamoring for?
This was a wonderful explanation of that moment and actually changed my perspective on it!
@@thesunthroneas someone who read everything even random NPC dialogue the core story and the way it’s delivered is your typical and generic shonen anime sprinkled with western YA book tropes. I don’t think it’s awful because I’m mostly used to this stuff but it’s a massive step down in quality and execution. If it were any other game no one will give it time of day. Everything on paper works but the way it’s threaded together is awful so it falls apart even on the good bits when characters act so stupid it’s just baffling. While bad critique is present and some is just annoying like trying to apply logic where they didn’t in the past is wack but that feeling of “this kinda sucks or is boring” stems from the amateur writing and awful quest design the game always had that is more noticeable thanks to the bad writing.
It's almost inconceivable that both Ishikawa, Oda, and Yoshi-P let this MSQ happen. Even if it does improve in the latter half, one would think that pulling out all the stops to ensure that your new story-of your ten-year-old baby or "life's work's" ultimate calling card and claim to fame-sinks its claws into anyone considering the WoL's story as having concluded in 6.0, would be the absolute minimum. People defend the slow pace and dull quest design as being akin to ARR in terms of laying a foundation, but we've all lived through that already, and you've had four successful expansions of practice in-between. By now, we're used to being engaged and excited.
they knew it was wack which is why they pushed heritage found, vanguard and solution 9 so early in the promotional material
they knew the promise of "adventure" (aka babysitting) was gonna fall flat
@@pancakemogul I straight up like ARR more than Dawntrail.
@@vaan_ and ironically, solution 9 fell flat for me partially because I already knew it was coming.
@@vaan_Notice how Wuk Lamat is barely in the opening movie or advertisements? It's the WoL on the cover, not Wuk Lamat.
We know limit breaks are dynamis, based off emotion. She was overflowing with emotion and spamming limit breaks, thats how she beats Bakool
the pacing reminds me of stromblood honestly, there are two complete stories smooshed into the space of one story. and it doesn't help that on top of that there is a heap of filler, the entire story of the wild west zone for example could have been cut and it would have had minimal impact on the over all story, but might have freed up some resources to pad out the bits that needed it.
3:50 What should have been there is a scene or two showing her training with the Warrior of Light. Though even with the dungeon and two trials, I am not sure that would be enough because they painted Mr. Two heads as if he was an end game boss.
8:02 I guess it sounds like it gets better?
Personally the pacing feels a bit all over the place. I am having a good time with the story (have more to go but only just past where you are). But it does feel a bit weird or in some ways repetitive. There's plenty of good elements to pull from here and I think that overall it's a decent story. I think it's hard comparing it to something like shadowbringers or Endwalker which were epic stories with lots of depth from over years of building.
But that's not a bad thing because they're needing to take their time to build up a little bit more new stuff. But the piecing does feel a bit weird, sometimes slow and sometimes fast. But overall I am having a great time so I'm not worried for the future.
People say the reaction to this game is mixed or divisive. But I think it should be noted that the divide is between bad and ok. I don't think anyone is saying it is great or even very good, the fact that *at most* it is *ok* is not a great sign.
I think that's patently untrue. I found the expansion very good. Sure its not Shadowbringers or Endwalker but no reasonable person would expect that. I still put it above Stormblood as someone who enjoyed Stormblood. Seen loads of other people who loved Dawntrail as well.
@@TheChunkeyNinja Ok, I'll try to what I reframe what I was trying to communicate better and in a less nitpickable way. I would personally suspect, from what I have seen, the separate population pools of people who think Mediocre (bad 3-4) and Mediocre (good 5-6) are significantly larger than those who would put it in say it's a 7+. I'd personally put the first half as a 4 and the second half as a 7. The division, overall, appears to still be taking place in the lower end of the scale rather than being people calling it a 2 vs an 8.
If we're talking solely about the story, sure, but if we're talking about the expansion as a whole, absolutely not true.
@@HealingBlight Personally I believe the people being overly negative of it went in expecting fireworks and world ending events like ShB and EW rather than a story reset in the vein of ARR and as such were "bored" of world building, bare in mind these same people are often found touting "ARR is a slog, it gets better" "ARR is so boring I nearly quit" in my opinion ARR is only a slog if you are trying to rush your way through because you heard HW is the place to really start.
I really enjoyed Dawntrail as a whole, Wuk Lamats naivete was a bit grating but for me the story gripped me a lot more from the start than Endwalker did, EW for me was dull until Garlemald
That thumbnail is excellent
It took me 8 days to beat DT, been doing every side quest and some fishing along the way. Somehow this was the perfect pacing for me, because i've barely had one moment of noticing slog in the story. And tbh, every expansion does have this moment (trolley in ShB, 2nd part of labyrinthos in EW). To each their own, but i absolutely love Dawntrail
There is a series of totally optional out of the way sidequests in Il Mheg around Uriangiers house revolving around him and the faeries that has better character development, humor, and writting overall, than anything in Dawntrail lmao
Haha, I expected you to say: this is a Mc Guffin with a different taste 😂The real father thing.
Baller thumbnail.
It feels to me like the MSQ this expansion is paced under the assumption that you're stopping to do the random menial sidequests and not just plowing straight through it. Speaking both from my personal experience and also speaking with others, the people who are doing all the sidequests along the way as they pop up seem to be enjoying the MSQ a lot more than the people who are ignoring the sidequests and just rushing right through it. Not that the sidequests are adding significantly to the MSQ, at most they're just adding more worldbuilding details, but they're breaking things up in a way that makes it feel less slow by giving you more things to do in between cutscenes.
This was exactly my experience! I enjoyed the MSQ far more when I did the side quests in every zone. Then when I focused only on MSQ for awhile my entire experience changed, and not for the better. I found some of the side quests really good, aside from allowing me time to be in the zones, not just cutscenes of the zones. And you're right, taking time to do the side quests fixes a lot of the feeling of borked pacing, as well as being (for me) highly enjoyable.
Even just taking some time to gather and craft, or run a dungeon again for some gear paces things out better. The game's main story cannot account for that, so it just goes - but truth is, none of this game's stories are made to just binge through in a day.
I personally haven't done all the side quests, just the aether current ones in most cases - but even just taking that time to mine gave me a moment to reflect and consider what the story is trying to do.
I did enjoy the first half of the MSQ, so, what you did up until now, quite a bit, yet the second half is what made it so much more for me.
Interestingly, after playing the whole thing, I feel like I enjoyed the first half much more. The second act had many points where the pacing was off or the characters acted in ways that seriously annoyed me. I'm looking forward to seeing this again through Preach's experience tho.
I don't buy the "She did a couple dungeons with us that means she is suddenly strong enough to beat a guy who swatted her away like a gnat" the moment was very unearned and made me like the character even less. The dead baby lizard thing was also just so weird. I initially thought that they had used some sort of process to try to make these two headed super lizards but according to what I've read it's just the two different lizard tribes interbreeding which really sends a weird message to me personally. Also, Bakool Ja Ja is an idiot in general, like there is simply no reason we shouldn't put him down after releasing a threat like Valigarmanda onto the land. "Oooh but he has survivors guilt" is not really an excuse to turn what was supposed to be a dumb trial in the realm of mario party mini game into a life or death situation for an entire region of the world.
The pacing is extremely weird
Its fucking miserable
First expansion I've been skipping some cutscenes...
It’s actually the same as past expansions but the lack of voice acting and quest design doesn’t do it any favors imo.
@@Plasmacat1Here comes the disingenuous defense
@@GushuGoblinwhat defense? Bro the people that can’t accept people don’t either hate or praise something to oblivion are so annoying. You guys kill any conversation on the spot. You don’t even know what I think but you assume I’m defending it because of what I said. Go back and analyze how the story is distributed and it’s the same. The thing here is that the lack of voice acting, amateur writing and not high stakes make it feel like a slog. Same thing happens in ARR and Stormblood.
While I was not the biggest fan of how they did the world building - it was still okay. But this is the section of the game where it all fell apart for me.
Valigarmanda was introduced as the biggest, baddest monster there is on the continent. So strong they could only trap it. They make sure you know that and to fear it. Then Bakool Ja Ja releases it - he is not immediately disqualified and everyone is basically saying: "Oh man, he REALLY did an oopsie now!" Like most of the expansion, it feels insanely inconsistent. Either it is a big thread, or it is not a biggy. It cant be both.
Bakool Ja Ja is also the best example for what is wrong with the character writing here. I do 100% get what they want to tell you. He is completely under the influence of legacy and tradition of his people and especially his father. It is indeed a tragic backstory - but it is handled in such a bad way and presented in a 30 sec cutscene, that it simply does not work or hit. Bakool Ja Ja does not act like a tormented soul before, he acts like a stupid high school bully. The story beat simply does not hit like it should, if the presentation itself is that horrendous. It feels like a different game to me at this point compared to older expansions.
It is especially tragic cause the topic is so dark and brutal - and they just... run past it.
The solo duty with wuk lamat is where the story really hooked me. I did every dungeon and trial with the npcs so her strength felt earned. And i really enjoyed the storytelling in the duty where she still starts off on the back foot but becomes stronger as the fight progresses.
I can agree the pacing can be wierd though it didnt bother me much.
Something to note is that the eugenics plotline is not a relic of the culture but is simply a bad policy that needed to be corrected. So it didnt feel off to me that it was just solved that quick. What is a bit iffy is the underlying racism that lead to that policy being kind of brushed off a bit too quickly.
When the combined feast happened, I could only see the Pepsi meme. Lol
I agree but don’t forget she is a Warrior! The best tank class, the ones that can pwn when angry and she gets angry. Also the Warrior story line has huge power spikes during the leveling progress. Still I agree it does feel out of place or rushed, we Couldave used small incremental increases of her power spikes..
Some people seem to think we “solved the Mamool problem in minutes”, but we didn’t. We gave the Mamool a possible solution to one of their simple problems but the history and practice of breeding Blessed siblings is something that remains. We only gave an option for their crop situation but there are still deep rooted problems in their society
i think the important term you're searching for with bakool jaja is survivor's guilt
All hail the Cornservant
I think whats divisive for people as well is this “examination” arc is a subversion of the trope which they made to be more intimate than competitive
I've said it before elsewhere, I'll say it again here. I feel like the first half of the story was meant to be all of the Dawntrail story, and the second half was meant to be the post-Dawntrail story. Dawntrail was meant to be Wuk Lamat's entire journey to becoming Dawnservant but they were worried that players would be bored with just that, so they compacted and rushed that entire part of the story to make more room for the "good stuff" that happens after.
Amazing thumbnail.
Damn i was looking for the next video right as it dropped
I envy people who can unironically stomach MSQ. Not just DT, but in general. While I do enjoy parts of the actual story, the actual delivery and the process of getting to the story (i.e. "Ayo talk to this guy over there, then again...and again...and again. Now go talk to that guy") is so damn jarring to me i can't stomach it.
its one of the best books i ever read told in the worst visual novel i ever played...
The only way to really enjoy MSQ is to understand it as a separate game mode. It’s not about action MMO gameplay; it’s about reading a story. Yes there are dungeons and trials sprinkled throughout, but those are exceptions rather than the norm.
@@ich3730 That is such a good way of putting it
If you view it as sort of like a mix between a book and a movie, it's quite chill and time flies by
About things going too fast.... it's 10 hours of gameplay and 30 hours of cutscene/story. 40 hours of total MSQ. is that really too short for a character to develop? Movies do it in 90-120 minutes.
Sorry, I have to disagree. I assume the whole way through MSQ that Wuk Lamat and the scions are canonically who do the dungeons and trials. Two dungeons and a trial are not enough to make up for her getting absolutely bodied and then going on to solo the dude that bodied her plus 50 dudes. That is like a years of improvement type situation.
And I'm sorry but 'because dynamis' is not enough to cover this one either. If you want to claim dynamis then any character at any point can be as powerful as the story needs them to be, despite what we've been shown.
And to be clear I don't hate her character, there's much worse by far. But the inconsistency is astonishing.
For me, I would have LOVED to see Bakool Ja Ja break down in front of some of those jars after the dungeon. Crying and pounding his hands on the ground and yelling that he was /trying/ for them and his mom would go over and comfort him. A moment where she looks back at the WoL to hear her son's pleas. I feel it would have given him so much more character. His character development was so rushed and it feels like that a lot in the expac. Rushed development when I wish they could have delved a little deeper and like you said, not so "power ranger".
Bakool Ja Jas story felt like the story that Gulool Ja Ja should have fulfilled. There already is and has been a two headed Mamool Ja as a Dawnservant. How come he didn't lead the people of Yak T'el out of that unfruitful land of theirs. It almost seemed like people of Yak T'el didn't know that they already had what they wanted and it seemed that Gulool Ja Ja did not care what they were doing to get it. Surely he did know about the plight of Yak T'el.
Gulool Ja Ja the Dawnservant is LITERALLY THE REASON for the Mamook tradition. The two-headed Mamool Ja who unites the entire continent, becomes the undisputed hero, the unbeatable duelist... only problem he didn't elevate the Mamook as the rulers because he did not want to have any of the other peoples resent him for being a conqueror. So the Mamook resented him instead and coped by thinking that it's okay, they just need another Blessed Sibling and the next one will totally win them the throne and entire continent and great glory will be theirs. We know how well that works out.
And it's not that Gulool Ja Ja doesn't want to help them, he's been through there, he's seen the sights. It's simply that most of the Mamook DO live in Tuliyollal, and what's left in the dark jungle are the bitter hardliners that think everyone's at fault for their misery and so they keep doing their weird eugenics program, sacrificing the growth of their people entirely to this idea. They clearly don't want to listen to Gulool Ja Ja, so he doesn't even bother.
The reason why we solve their agricultural problem in two minutes is because Sharlayan had been preparing for a doomsday scenario of leaving the planet behind and settling elsewhere - hence the seed vaults for all possible environments. Now that the plan is cancelled, it's no problem to just send out a petition with the aetheric readings attached and introduce some new crops to the aetheric conditions of the dark jungle. But before then, entire Forum was under the silence spell where they couldn't even speak a peep of their master project and what they were gathering even if pressed.
What I gather from this and other streamer comment sections is that the fan base is god awful at giving proper feedback and deals in absolutes like a Sith lol. I appreciate your journal style reviews.
I suppose that means virtually every fanbase are there to recruit people into turning into a Sith? /s
I think it's fair to say the zone's story was rushed (and it was), but I still really loved the zone. To me this s the spot where Wuk Lamat really starts to come into her own. She's still somewhat naive, but it starts to come across less as "it'll all be okay if we use friendship :)" and more as her being more practical, thoughtful, and considerate of the tough decisions she's going to have to make without abandoning her overarching ideals of peace, tolerance, and cooperation.
Also I think SE went a bit overboard in characterizing Bakool Ja Ja as a moustache-twirling villain, but in retrospect I find it really funny how obvious it all was that they were setting up a redemption considering that despite all the villainy that he got up to, no one was actually killed as a result of Bakool Ja Ja's actions (besides maybe(?) some bandits).
I think there's definitely still room to explore the aftermath in the patch story.
I have never seen a more sharp example of Mary Suedom ever than the solo duty with Wuk Lamat vs Bakool Ja Ja. Just 3-4 levels earlier she got swatted with a single arm, then suddenly she has the power of 9 limit breaks and can solo him PLUS 50 of his goons, at what point did she get the training or power up to do this?!
I want to hypothetical an example of a previous expansion doing something similar but if it had Dawntrails writing, the WoL vs Zenos. Stormblood spoilers (why are you here, but still) The first time you see Zenos, he is an absolute powerhouse, turning Rhalgr's upside down and swatting any one away with ease. The next time to face him is in Doma, about 3-4 levels after the first encounter, in the OG you don't beat him with ease, he is still an absolute tank showing that he is still a powerhouse. If it was written like Dawntrail was, we would have had 9 limit breaks and sent him crying home to daddy after kicking him and 50 Garlean soldiers asses with ease, just because we learned about the Doman way of living or something. But that's not how it was, we had to go through the entire expansion powering up to be able to face him at the end, it felt more earned than this.
Not to even get me started on the 180 heel turn of a personality that happens with Bakool Ja Ja, a character that just moments ago in the story committed absolutely heinous crimes against the nation of Tural by unleashing the Skyruin, the most legendary Tural Vidraal known to them, on its populace.
Was with you till Dr Who ( the worse rated by the public ever ) The start of the MSQ is childish, that is what many of us never liked.
I think Wuk Lamat is supposed to have been that powerful all along and it's only with her development and self belief that she has faith in herself to use her strength to the fullest. Her lack of experience and belief in her abilities were almost a block on her physical abilities.
I just recently finished Dawntrail MSQ and it really grew on me, even had me choked up. I would say it felt like it rushed some parts to get to the next major story beat. It was like they told a 30 hour story in 20 hours. All in all though, I had a blast and loved it.
I have some qualms with the xpac but i still enjoy it too. Later they introduce two characters (maybe you know who am i talking about) but they grew on me between the span of an hour
Like the format 😊
i feel like the starting story 90-96 was really slow because they rushed the pace in some places and slowed it down for world building.... i feel like that story could of been all the way to 100 if they added more conflict and different trials and made the 97 + story being .3 patch into next expansion. i guess they just couldn't find how to make that fleshed out and thought best to split into 2 different stories.
Overall I liked DT, but l literally told just yesterday to a friend of mine that the espansion's story basically felt like 7.0 from the start untill the election of the new Dawnservant and 7.x from then to the end
Bit of spoilers ahead
Also the second part of the story should have been Koana's time to shine. (Vow of reason vs queen of reason).
Lets say Wuk Lamat gets injured in the invasion and has to stay and hold the city by relying on others as she was learning to do in our journey with her.
This and slightly past is so odd in terms of feelings for me, almost as if i had done ARR in terms of world progress, but was spaced out during parts of the story context.
11th doctor is one of the peak seasons.
somethin i liked about the fact that we are just immediately like "oh yea, we got these seeds from over seas. we can fix this easy" is it just straight up destroys the mamool ja's isolationist practices.
they hated the outside world and coveting what others had because their home lacked resources. but if they would have just come together and worked with the others there problems could have been solved and on top of that it shows the strength of koana's ideas of advancement to solve the problems of the people
sure its idealistic, shallow and unrealistic. but for a feel good story just about people coming together and how we are stronger when we work together, i feel like it works out perfectly.
also it makes me feel like we are globe trotting badasses. like duh, we've been to space, ofc poor agriculture conditions are not a threat to us. we are basically gods at this point lol
i would have been more pissed if we treated this like it was a big problem
totally agree that bakool ja ja part felt a bit rushed. honestly i felt the whole 90-95 section was rushed too. i care about the pelu pelu trading! and hanu hanu reeds! screw u guys and your "this is boring" comments. i like that stuff! lolol
The problem is that the writers thought they were tackling eugenics, but that's not what actually happens in the story. What they instead advocate for is miscenegation, which I assume is very much the opposite of what they had intended. Don't jump to conclusions because you think what the writer might have *wanted* to do, but pay attention to what the writing actually says.
I don't have a lot of gripes with the story overall. I just really hate Wuk Lamat as a main character. She is too overbearing. She takes up so much "screen time" that no other character has any chance to get any development. It's really ALL about her, she is in every cutscene, every fight, she leads every conversation... and a lot of the time, especially later on you just want her to shut up and let more experienced and frankly more intelligent people do the talking. It got to the point with me where I found her to be insufferable. It feels like she has 90% of all dialogue lines. I have never hated a character in an FF game as much as I have come to hate her throughout the MSQ. Not because she is that badly written, but simply because I want her to shut up, sit down and go away, so I can spent time with all the other characters who are simply more interesting. She is the only character of the new expac that I dislike, and it's a shame that everything revolves around her.
@@Gravewhisper wuk lamat legit gives me ptsd from my ex, who was incredibly codependent and had to insert themselves as the main focus of every waking second of my life. I catch myself avoiding Tuliyollal because I'm subconsciously scared she's going to find me.
Pacing can get a bit slow and fast at parts in the first half, but overall they did a decent job of introducing the characters of Tural. Which was the intention imo
Yeah. When haven’t FFXIV players complained about “pacing”?
"Solos bakool jaja and 50 men" (barely survives after 5+ limit breaks)
Honestly this part was a dip for me. Wuk Lamat being the only remaining contestant just made me lose all interest in the stakes anyway. Zarool Ja got almost 0 characterization despite Wuk recruiting us to make sure he won't win, and now he can't win already.
People who think Bakool Ja Ja was forgiven are just wrong, Wuk Said he will still see punishment for his crimes She just now understand Why is all and there are more pressing matters to attend to at this time.
How does he have the HP bars show the color of the role the person is, @12:03
You see the term Mary Sue very often misused
Wuk Lamat is the epitome of a Mary Sue, which is a frequent problem in anime and final fantasy games, but she’s just egregious
Mike is understandably being diplomatic; I’ll say it - she’s awful and makes every scene she’s in objectively worse, unless it’s cringe factor, in which case she’s a great addition
Boy I cannot wait for tomorrow's video LOL
Level wise it makes sense. Since overgrown lizard guy is cheating, he is still only level 90 while cat lady is leveling traditionally so she is level 94
94 > 90. Simple math lol
So at this point I am rating this story as the lowest in all of ff14 right now. Will have to see where it goes as it’s only about halfway still. But yeah I mean even ARR was more interesting to me than this. I’ll see the story through to the end but I’m losing patience. Feels like this story is just a dud.
Pacing is absolutely DT's biggest problem for me. They somehow managed to make it feel both incredibly slow and boring much of the time, and rushed. Really weird to me for a team that clearly knows how to do it right.
Let's be honest, we're missing a Zenos.
I liked the second half of DT much better. I still hope they ditch Wuk Lamat as a character for future expansions. Really looking forward to Arcadion, because content is awesome
@melaniebiberger2191 the second half is where I turned on the story tbh. I despise the entire plot behind the second hub, and I'd been patient with Wuk Lamat through the whole first half, assuming she'd give the rest of the characters some breathing room after that, only for her to be inserted right back into the middle of things and never let go.
@@Keira_Blackstone shes still hamfisted into you, thats true but at least its not her alone anymore. The other characters have their moments too. Not to mention the introduction of a few new very likeable characters
IT's very simple. The first fight occurs when she's level 90 and he's 94. Then, she levels up going through the MSQ up to 94, while he mostly skips out on everything, remaining at 94. And after that... well it's a Warrior vs a Viper. More Adds? More Healing, you mean.
Gulool Ja Ja: Sorry Krile, I can't tell you important plot details yet because it would give one of the Dawnservant candidates an unfair advantage :(
Also Gulool Ja Ja: *Makes the biological father of Wuk Lamat an Elector that has the power to choose who can proceed*
90-97 is just BAFFLING storytelling, man.
And the other elector is bakool ja ja's father, and the one WAY more biased between the two, but somehow it's Wuk Lamath the problem...
You'd have a point, but the Xibral chief was pretty fair during and after his trial and Gulool Ja Ja also put a super extremist as the last elector, where Bakool and maybe Zoral Ja would have had preference over the other two. And I'd argue that that guy was actually unfair.
@@tryagain6691 My original post before I deleted and re-typed it did actually mention the Mamook one as well but I second-guessed that he specifically was the biological father of Bakool Ja Ja.
Either way, yes, the point stands and works just as well for him too. The idea that Gulool Ja Ja can't answer Krile despite her travelling across the globe in search of answers is laughable when he hires two biological fathers prone to bias to help determine the next ruler of the continent.
@@ItsCassius Why? Racial bias or family connections will be relevant to a future ruler.
But to not just make up reason, each trial is seemingly held by the leader or chief of each tribe we go to. The only exception is the pelupelu. It might not be a choise at all, at the end of the day, as most tests have something to do with the local culture and who else to test you on that, but the local leader.
The whole trial thing is also not to determine, but, as Gulool Ja Ja says, to cultivate a leader. If you look at what is actually asked of the claimants, it is a really unfair set of tests for both Bakool Ja Ja and Zoral Ja, with both Wuk Lamat and Koana having more of an edge in most trials, especially after you count their support group. In a way, Gulool Ja Ja isn't really looking for an answer on who is going to succeed him. He already knows who will, he just don't know which candidate, if any, is going to become that person.
@@tryagain6691 additionally, gulool ja ja tells you directly that the trial is more to judge the character of the claimants and mold them into good rulers than to actually find the Golden city (After the instanced fight against him he admits that he would have just remained dawnservant if at trial complete no claimant was deemed worthy)
I've only just started the new MSQ myself, was finishing all the remaining side stuff as I had been procrastinating.
I've known nameless Swarthy Sailor for all of five minutes and already I'd rather have him by my side than Wuk Lamat. The VO isn't even all that bad yet even if I strongly disagree with the actor's views, but the character herself is grating. Shonen-style slop. I had hoped we'd reserve this level of trope-heavy writing for Hildibrand. It also rubbed me the wrong way how Wuk Lamat was showing off during the initial hunt, slaying a bunch of beasties with a single attack while practically bragging about it yet turning meek and into a literal scaredy-cat practically on a dime. The package doesn't match the filling, ironically enough. That bit about sea-sickness would've worked better if Erenville had commented on it after she'd made landfall, maybe have her staggering off the ship or something.
The things you mentioned are exactly things that made me go "ughhh".
- Wuk Lamat winning because she now believes in herself and resolve and the power of anime.
- Us finding out who Wuk Lamat's real father is, told to keep quiet about it, but then she finds out in the exact next scene and nothing comes of it.
- The eugenics thing is very interesting, but is solved too quickly is way too easily. Generations of ingrained traditions can just disappear that quickly.
I'm in social studies. Everything in this expansion starts out interesting but always has something weak or shitty to it.
Yeah, and you might then know that traditions DO disappear extremely quickly when they are unsustainable. They are straight up dying out due to their eugenics tradition - they have pretty much no children there at all, their houses are collapsing and cities half-empty. If you count the Wanderer's Palace Blessed Sibling, they have had at minimum two hundred stillbirths in 20 years, and very likely much more. And they are a fringe people at that - most of their number live in Tuliyollal and went there along with Galool Ja Ja.
They simply cannot go on like this. The only reason they still put up the front is because they are lost to the sunk cost fallacy. But then, two Promises and the Blessed Sibling (who just failed by the way) come and tell you, no, stop, it's over. We have to move on. What kind of society possibly would STILL cling to the tradition that is killing them and reject outside help? They have tried everything, and we can even make an off handed comment about killing a two-head and not really thinking much about it back in Eorzea.
Look to any defeated nation in your social studies. Look what makes them to ultimately submit, no matter what their claims and ideology and proclaimed values were - the simple realization that there's no point in continuing their doomed ways.
On Wuk Lamat and Bakool Ja Ja fight, I think it's important to note that Wuk Lamat is weaker than Bakool, like, significantly, and she has to continue breaking her limits to stand in equal footing and then on top.
At the start of the fight, Bakool does more damage to you than you can reasonably heal passively, his attacks are strong and Wuk has no chance... And it's through her willpower that breaks the limits that she is able to stand against him at all.
So I don't think it's power creep, Wuk is weaker than Bakool Ja Ja, but she was more determined to win and break through her own weaknesses, whereas Bakool relied on others and didn't have his heart in the fight, being crushed by the weight of expectation on him to win by any means
Naw, she is just a warrior. Thats what warriors do. You just solo... respect the 1v1.. respect the 1 v 5 respect the 1 v 20..
people forget Zoral JA badly injurred Bakool JAJA
She’s the warrior of light bro
And a Warrior main, she was OP from the start.
SPÈEEEEEEEEEN
I was disappointed in the dead baby dungeon